politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Meanwhile from the White House as the staff turnover continues
Comments
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Point of order, to save you from transactivists, it's gender 'confirmation' surgery.Foxy said:
Are you suggesting that Mrs May requires gender reassignment surgery?JackW said:
I regret to say that the government response will not deter the Russian state. If this is "robust" then I dread to think what a weak response would look like.rkrkrk said:Absolutely right.
We don’t want to start a war - but we have to come up with responses that deter them.
Our nation will continue to be attacked by Russia until we grow a pair.0 -
The time is now. Just for starters and by no means an exhaustive list :JosiasJessop said:
I agree, if this is all we are doing.JackW said:
I regret to say that the government response will not deter the Russian state. If this is "robust" then I dread to think what a weak response would look like.rkrkrk said:Absolutely right.
We don’t want to start a war - but we have to come up with responses that deter them.
Our nation will continue to be attacked by Russia until we grow a pair.
However, this may just be a first stage, and things may also being done that the Great British Public cannot be told about.
1. Expel the Russian ambassador and all but a skeleton staff at the embassy to be engaged in verifiable humanitarian activities.
2 Advise the FA to withdraw from the World Cup. Place a case to FIFA that we cannot compete in a tournament hosted by a state attacking us. Albeit 3 months away propose Germany host the tournament and Italy replace Russia.
3. Formally declare the Russian Federation government a rogue state and criminal enterprise.
4. Place all evidence from all sources of world wide Russian criminal activities in the public domain.
5. All filmed intercepts of Russian military incursions into UK airspace to be placed in the public domain
6. Putin's wealth to be openly scrutinized by House of Commons Select Committee.
7. All tools of of the City of London to be utilized against Russian assets.
8. Beef up Russian section of the BBC World Service.
9. Advise our trading partners and allies that preference will be given to nations/companies not trading with Russia.
10. Stop the cuts to the UK military NOW !!!!!!!!!
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We were told that things will be done about which we cannot be told. Whether said things will happen and whether we can or cannot be told that things have actually happened about which we cannot be told, is another matter.JosiasJessop said:
I agree, if this is all we are doing.JackW said:
I regret to say that the government response will not deter the Russian state. If this is "robust" then I dread to think what a weak response would look like.rkrkrk said:Absolutely right.
We don’t want to start a war - but we have to come up with responses that deter them.
Our nation will continue to be attacked by Russia until we grow a pair.
However, this may just be a first stage, and things may also being done that the Great British Public cannot be told about.0 -
The thing that will happen about which we cannot yet be told, that will hit Putin where it hurts, is cancelling Brexit.IanB2 said:
We were told that things will be done about which we cannot be told. Whether said things will happen and whether we can or cannot be told that things have actually happened about which we cannot be told, is another matter.JosiasJessop said:
I agree, if this is all we are doing.JackW said:
I regret to say that the government response will not deter the Russian state. If this is "robust" then I dread to think what a weak response would look like.rkrkrk said:Absolutely right.
We don’t want to start a war - but we have to come up with responses that deter them.
Our nation will continue to be attacked by Russia until we grow a pair.
However, this may just be a first stage, and things may also being done that the Great British Public cannot be told about.0 -
I suspect sanctions/financial restrictions/clamp down on tax havens is the way to go.Sandpit said:
Indeed, we don’t want to start a war but we have to react to an extreme provocation or else they will just keep poking.
Just catching up on yesterday in Parliament, with the one obvious exception pretty much unanimity for the government’s actions, and a huge amount of international backing from them too. Obviously a lot of work gone on behind the scenes in the past few days. Some of the harshest responses will be convert or investigatory in nature and weren’t announced yesterday.
Not too provocative in terms of international norms - but will be painful for some powerful people near Putin.
Boycotting the World Cup would be a powerful statement - especially if we could get other European nations to do it as well. That might carry some domestic political risks though.
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I haven't heard any other practical actions being suggested. A military response is clearly not on the cards. Plundering assets would have a certain satisfaction, but it will have to be tailored, rather than on the base assumption that every Russian in London is a bad Russian. No doubt some of these London Russians are far from admirers of Putin, and will be ongoing sources of information about his regime. We need that source of intel.JosiasJessop said:
I agree, if this is all we are doing.JackW said:
I regret to say that the government response will not deter the Russian state. If this is "robust" then I dread to think what a weak response would look like.rkrkrk said:Absolutely right.
We don’t want to start a war - but we have to come up with responses that deter them.
Our nation will continue to be attacked by Russia until we grow a pair.
However, this may just be a first stage, and things may also being done that the Great British Public cannot be told about.
Putin's criminal enterprise has vast reserves of finance and state spying apparatus to do with as it pleases. It has no scruples, up to and including using nerve agents abroad. It operates by a fear and ruthlessness that is unknown to those spouting off in a UK chat room. In Putin's Russia, just making these comments would be extremely bad news for your health. Or that of your family. Maybe we aren't even safe making them on here.
But what we can do is celebrate our free speech, even by allowing the bat-shit crazy to be heard as they shill for that wretched regime.
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Certainly we need to follow the money, there’s billions of roubles in London and other British territories and friendly nations, which would make a difference to a lot of people close to Putin if it were frozen.rkrkrk said:
I suspect sanctions/financial restrictions/clamp down on tax havens is the way to go.Sandpit said:
Indeed, we don’t want to start a war but we have to react to an extreme provocation or else they will just keep poking.
Just catching up on yesterday in Parliament, with the one obvious exception pretty much unanimity for the government’s actions, and a huge amount of international backing from them too. Obviously a lot of work gone on behind the scenes in the past few days. Some of the harshest responses will be convert or investigatory in nature and weren’t announced yesterday.
Not too provocative in terms of international norms - but will be painful for some powerful people near Putin.
Boycotting the World Cup would be a powerful statement - especially if we could get other European nations to do it as well. That might carry some domestic political risks though.
WC boycott needs to be properly organised, with at least a dozen nations involved and announced at the last minute for maximum effect. The negotiations for this are probably going on at a diplomatic level behind the scenes - for example the FA and TV companies will need looking after if England withdraw, and similar considerations will also be the case in other countries. I think that, deep down, a number of Western nations would rather not go to Russia or Qatar, and a good opportunity to facilitate that has just presented itself.0 -
Idiotoc guff from a wannabe internet hardman whose so-called expert opinion has proven again and again to be delusional ultra-nationalist cobblers.Floater said:
BravoY0kel said:1. Those who seem to think of the attempted killing in Salisbury had anything to do with Russian domestic political concerns are way off the mark. This is global geopolitics and gangster state stuff at work. This idea about Russian domestic politics is born of a Western political bubble outlook which thinks everything is framed with PR optics. Domestic political considerations will have had no bearing on the decision to attack.
2. People still knocking on about doubts should bear in mind that the Novichok range and their later versions have not been recorded as having turned up in other states active CBW arsenals. That reduces the possible options somewhat. Mis-interpretation of the weapon is possible but unlikely. Unless you want to take the view that the British government is outright lying.
3. No one should be surprised by Corbyn's reaction. The guy fundamentally hates the country he is in and has a problem with liberal democracy.
4. This is the first time, in at least the last 6 to 8 years that any Western government has actually openly said 'fuck this, we are calling you out' and backed it up. It is, however, only a start, the UK should make it a multi year mission to strangle the current Russian regime and its dodge associates as much as it possibly can. Passivity doesn't work.
5. Again, someone needs to track Skripal's daughter's movements and associations to help them, right down to the passenger list on her plane journeys. I'll be damned if there isn't something of interest there.0 -
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I don’t know that announcing a boycott at the last minute is a good idea.Sandpit said:
Certainly we need to follow the money, there’s billions of roubles in London and other British territories and friendly nations, which would make a difference to a lot of people close to Putin if it were frozen.rkrkrk said:
I suspect sanctions/financial restrictions/clamp down on tax havens is the way to go.Sandpit said:
Indeed, we don’t want to start a war but we have to react to an extreme provocation or else they will just keep poking.
Just catching up on yesterday in Parliament, with the one obvious exception pretty much unanimity for the government’s actions, and a huge amount of international backing from them too. Obviously a lot of work gone on behind the scenes in the past few days. Some of the harshest responses will be convert or investigatory in nature and weren’t announced yesterday.
Not too provocative in terms of international norms - but will be painful for some powerful people near Putin.
Boycotting the World Cup would be a powerful statement - especially if we could get other European nations to do it as well. That might carry some domestic political risks though.
WC boycott needs to be properly organised, with at least a dozen nations involved and announced at the last minute for maximum effect. The negotiations for this are probably going on at a diplomatic level behind the scenes - for example the FA and TV companies will need looking after if England withdraw, and similar considerations will also be the case in other countries. I think that, deep down, a number of Western nations would rather not go to Russia or Qatar, and a good opportunity to facilitate that has just presented itself.
In any case I doubt that any of this is going to happen.0 -
Wibble.williamglenn said:
The thing that will happen about which we cannot yet be told, that will hit Putin where it hurts, is cancelling Brexit.IanB2 said:
We were told that things will be done about which we cannot be told. Whether said things will happen and whether we can or cannot be told that things have actually happened about which we cannot be told, is another matter.JosiasJessop said:
I agree, if this is all we are doing.JackW said:
I regret to say that the government response will not deter the Russian state. If this is "robust" then I dread to think what a weak response would look like.rkrkrk said:Absolutely right.
We don’t want to start a war - but we have to come up with responses that deter them.
Our nation will continue to be attacked by Russia until we grow a pair.
However, this may just be a first stage, and things may also being done that the Great British Public cannot be told about.0 -
Unilever goes Dutch...0
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From the tail end of a thread on RT:
https://twitter.com/JournoStephen/status/973953756118372352
https://twitter.com/JournoStephen/status/9739541070599004170 -
A world cup boycott would be effective if the UK could call on other European nations - Germany particularly - to join. Unfortunately, the self-harming decision to wilfully diminish our influence in Europe has clearly ruled that out as a possibility.rkrkrk said:
I don’t know that announcing a boycott at the last minute is a good idea.Sandpit said:
Certainly we need to follow the money, there’s billions of roubles in London and other British territories and friendly nations, which would make a difference to a lot of people close to Putin if it were frozen.rkrkrk said:
I suspect sanctions/financial restrictions/clamp down on tax havens is the way to go.Sandpit said:
Indeed, we don’t want to start a war but we have to react to an extreme provocation or else they will just keep poking.
Just catching up on yesterday in Parliament, with the one obvious exception pretty much unanimity for the government’s actions, and a huge amount of international backing from them too. Obviously a lot of work gone on behind the scenes in the past few days. Some of the harshest responses will be convert or investigatory in nature and weren’t announced yesterday.
Not too provocative in terms of international norms - but will be painful for some powerful people near Putin.
Boycotting the World Cup would be a powerful statement - especially if we could get other European nations to do it as well. That might carry some domestic political risks though.
WC boycott needs to be properly organised, with at least a dozen nations involved and announced at the last minute for maximum effect. The negotiations for this are probably going on at a diplomatic level behind the scenes - for example the FA and TV companies will need looking after if England withdraw, and similar considerations will also be the case in other countries. I think that, deep down, a number of Western nations would rather not go to Russia or Qatar, and a good opportunity to facilitate that has just presented itself.
In any case I doubt that any of this is going to happen.0 -
If England pull out and are replaced by Italy then Putin will just laugh at us.rkrkrk said:
I don’t know that announcing a boycott at the last minute is a good idea.Sandpit said:
Certainly we need to follow the money, there’s billions of roubles in London and other British territories and friendly nations, which would make a difference to a lot of people close to Putin if it were frozen.rkrkrk said:
I suspect sanctions/financial restrictions/clamp down on tax havens is the way to go.Sandpit said:
Indeed, we don’t want to start a war but we have to react to an extreme provocation or else they will just keep poking.
Just catching up on yesterday in Parliament, with the one obvious exception pretty much unanimity for the government’s actions, and a huge amount of international backing from them too. Obviously a lot of work gone on behind the scenes in the past few days. Some of the harshest responses will be convert or investigatory in nature and weren’t announced yesterday.
Not too provocative in terms of international norms - but will be painful for some powerful people near Putin.
Boycotting the World Cup would be a powerful statement - especially if we could get other European nations to do it as well. That might carry some domestic political risks though.
WC boycott needs to be properly organised, with at least a dozen nations involved and announced at the last minute for maximum effect. The negotiations for this are probably going on at a diplomatic level behind the scenes - for example the FA and TV companies will need looking after if England withdraw, and similar considerations will also be the case in other countries. I think that, deep down, a number of Western nations would rather not go to Russia or Qatar, and a good opportunity to facilitate that has just presented itself.
In any case I doubt that any of this is going to happen.
It needs a lot of matches cancelled and a lot of big names not there, if it’s to be effective at humiliating Russia.0 -
Yes. But domestically - cancelling a world cup the day before for something that happened months ago is going to go down pretty badly.Sandpit said:
If England pull out and are replaced by Italy then Putin will just laugh at us.rkrkrk said:
I don’t know that announcing a boycott at the last minute is a good idea.Sandpit said:
Certainly we need to follow the money, there’s billions of roubles in London and other British territories and friendly nations, which would make a difference to a lot of people close to Putin if it were frozen.rkrkrk said:
I suspect sanctions/financial restrictions/clamp down on tax havens is the way to go.Sandpit said:
Indeed, we don’t want to start a war but we have to react to an extreme provocation or else they will just keep poking.
Just catching up on yesterday in Parliament, with the one obvious exception pretty much unanimity for the government’s actions, and a huge amount of international backing from them too. Obviously a lot of work gone on behind the scenes in the past few days. Some of the harshest responses will be convert or investigatory in nature and weren’t announced yesterday.
Not too provocative in terms of international norms - but will be painful for some powerful people near Putin.
Boycotting the World Cup would be a powerful statement - especially if we could get other European nations to do it as well. That might carry some domestic political risks though.
WC boycott needs to be properly organised, with at least a dozen nations involved and announced at the last minute for maximum effect. The negotiations for this are probably going on at a diplomatic level behind the scenes - for example the FA and TV companies will need looking after if England withdraw, and similar considerations will also be the case in other countries. I think that, deep down, a number of Western nations would rather not go to Russia or Qatar, and a good opportunity to facilitate that has just presented itself.
In any case I doubt that any of this is going to happen.
It needs a lot of matches cancelled and a lot of big names not there, if it’s to be effective at humiliating Russia.
If she wanted to boycott she should quickly get a few other countries to agree, announce and then try and pressure others to join in, so there are increasing, rolling numbers of nations cancelling/dropping out.
*He says - having never organized a boycott of anything never mind a world cup*0 -
Trump on his meeting with Trudeau.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2018/03/14/in-fundraising-speech-trump-says-he-made-up-facts-in-meeting-with-justin-trudeau/
“Trudeau came to see me. He’s a good guy, Justin. He said, ‘No, no, we have no trade deficit with you, we have none. Donald, please,’ ” Trump said, mimicking Trudeau, according to audio obtained by The Washington Post. “Nice guy, good-looking guy, comes in — ‘Donald, we have no trade deficit.’ He’s very proud because everybody else, you know, we’re getting killed.
“... So, he’s proud. I said, ‘Wrong, Justin, you do.’ I didn’t even know. ... I had no idea. I just said, ‘You’re wrong.’ You know why? Because we’re so stupid. … And I thought they were smart. I said, ‘You’re wrong, Justin.’ He said, ‘Nope, we have no trade deficit.’ I said, ‘Well, in that case, I feel differently,’ I said, ‘but I don’t believe it.’ I sent one of our guys out, his guy, my guy, they went out, I said, ‘Check, because I can’t believe it.’
‘Well, sir, you’re actually right. We have no deficit, but that doesn’t include energy and timber. … And when you do, we lose $17 billion a year.’ It’s incredible.”
The Office of the United States Trade Representative says the United States has a trade surplus with Canada.0 -
It isn't just about Putin but the UK as a nation.Sandpit said:
If England pull out and are replaced by Italy then Putin will just laugh at us.rkrkrk said:
I don’t know that announcing a boycott at the last minute is a good idea.Sandpit said:
Certainly we need to follow the money, there’s billions of roubles in London and other British territories and friendly nations, which would make a difference to a lot of people close to Putin if it were frozen.rkrkrk said:
I suspect sanctions/financial restrictions/clamp down on tax havens is the way to go.Sandpit said:
Indeed, we don’t want to start a war but we have to react to an extreme provocation or else they will just keep poking.
Just catching up on yesterday in Parliament, with the one obvious exception pretty much unanimity for the government’s actions, and a huge amount of international backing from them too. Obviously a lot of work gone on behind the scenes in the past few days. Some of the harshest responses will be convert or investigatory in nature and weren’t announced yesterday.
Not too provocative in terms of international norms - but will be painful for some powerful people near Putin.
Boycotting the World Cup would be a powerful statement - especially if we could get other European nations to do it as well. That might carry some domestic political risks though.
WC boycott needs to be properly organised, with at least a dozen nations involved and announced at the last minute for maximum effect. The negotiations for this are probably going on at a diplomatic level behind the scenes - for example the FA and TV companies will need looking after if England withdraw, and similar considerations will also be the case in other countries. I think that, deep down, a number of Western nations would rather not go to Russia or Qatar, and a good opportunity to facilitate that has just presented itself.
In any case I doubt that any of this is going to happen.
It needs a lot of matches cancelled and a lot of big names not there, if it’s to be effective at humiliating Russia.
Do we accept the Russian state may attack us with chemical weapons with impunity and then celebrate Russian hosting a world wide sporting event with our continued and willing participation?0 -
"Strong and Stable", Spreadsheet Phil and Pike. God help us all.0
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We hold all the cards!!JackW said:
The time is now. Just for starters and by no means an exhaustive list :JosiasJessop said:
I agree, if this is all we are doing.JackW said:
I regret to say that the government response will not deter the Russian state. If this is "robust" then I dread to think what a weak response would look like.rkrkrk said:Absolutely right.
We don’t want to start a war - but we have to come up with responses that deter them.
Our nation will continue to be attacked by Russia until we grow a pair.
However, this may just be a first stage, and things may also being done that the Great British Public cannot be told about.
1. Expel the Russian ambassador and all but a skeleton staff at the embassy to be engaged in verifiable humanitarian activities.
2 Advise the FA to withdraw from the World Cup. Place a case to FIFA that we cannot compete in a tournament hosted by a state attacking us. Albeit 3 months away propose Germany host the tournament and Italy replace Russia.
3. Formally declare the Russian Federation government a rogue state and criminal enterprise.
4. Place all evidence from all sources of world wide Russian criminal activities in the public domain.
5. All filmed intercepts of Russian military incursions into UK airspace to be placed in the public domain
6. Putin's wealth to be openly scrutinized by House of Commons Select Committee.
7. All tools of of the City of London to be utilized against Russian assets.
8. Beef up Russian section of the BBC World Service.
9. Advise our trading partners and allies that preference will be given to nations/companies not trading with Russia.
10. Stop the cuts to the UK military NOW !!!!!!!!!0 -
I need a Trump-English translator. His sea of verbiage just makes my eyes cross.williamglenn said:Trump on his meeting with Trudeau.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2018/03/14/in-fundraising-speech-trump-says-he-made-up-facts-in-meeting-with-justin-trudeau/
“Trudeau came to see me. He’s a good guy, Justin. He said, ‘No, no, we have no trade deficit with you, we have none. Donald, please,’ ” Trump said, mimicking Trudeau, according to audio obtained by The Washington Post. “Nice guy, good-looking guy, comes in — ‘Donald, we have no trade deficit.’ He’s very proud because everybody else, you know, we’re getting killed.
“... So, he’s proud. I said, ‘Wrong, Justin, you do.’ I didn’t even know. ... I had no idea. I just said, ‘You’re wrong.’ You know why? Because we’re so stupid. … And I thought they were smart. I said, ‘You’re wrong, Justin.’ He said, ‘Nope, we have no trade deficit.’ I said, ‘Well, in that case, I feel differently,’ I said, ‘but I don’t believe it.’ I sent one of our guys out, his guy, my guy, they went out, I said, ‘Check, because I can’t believe it.’
‘Well, sir, you’re actually right. We have no deficit, but that doesn’t include energy and timber. … And when you do, we lose $17 billion a year.’ It’s incredible.”
The Office of the United States Trade Representative says the United States has a trade surplus with Canada.
Bottom line it for me. Has he been fibbing again?0 -
Putin is playing Russian roulette against us with all chambers filled. Mrs May responds by playing the card - Mrs Bun the baker's' wife from "Happy Families".bigjohnowls said:
We hold all the cards!!JackW said:
The time is now. Just for starters and by no means an exhaustive list :JosiasJessop said:
I agree, if this is all we are doing.JackW said:
I regret to say that the government response will not deter the Russian state. If this is "robust" then I dread to think what a weak response would look like.rkrkrk said:Absolutely right.
We don’t want to start a war - but we have to come up with responses that deter them.
Our nation will continue to be attacked by Russia until we grow a pair.
However, this may just be a first stage, and things may also being done that the Great British Public cannot be told about.
1. Expel the Russian ambassador and all but a skeleton staff at the embassy to be engaged in verifiable humanitarian activities.
2 Advise the FA to withdraw from the World Cup. Place a case to FIFA that we cannot compete in a tournament hosted by a state attacking us. Albeit 3 months away propose Germany host the tournament and Italy replace Russia.
3. Formally declare the Russian Federation government a rogue state and criminal enterprise.
4. Place all evidence from all sources of world wide Russian criminal activities in the public domain.
5. All filmed intercepts of Russian military incursions into UK airspace to be placed in the public domain
6. Putin's wealth to be openly scrutinized by House of Commons Select Committee.
7. All tools of of the City of London to be utilized against Russian assets.
8. Beef up Russian section of the BBC World Service.
9. Advise our trading partners and allies that preference will be given to nations/companies not trading with Russia.
10. Stop the cuts to the UK military NOW !!!!!!!!!
Frankly next to useless and only surpassed by the craven incompetence of Jeremy Corbyn.0 -
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Getting a group together and then putting pressure on others might be the way to go, but the most important thing is that the organisers don’t have time to replace the boycotting nations with others - so there is serious disruption to the tournament itself, with sold-out matches cancelled and fans, TV companies, sponsors and FIFA themselves all angry about it.rkrkrk said:
Yes. But domestically - cancelling a world cup the day before for something that happened months ago is going to go down pretty badly.Sandpit said:
If England pull out and are replaced by Italy then Putin will just laugh at us.rkrkrk said:
I don’t know that announcing a boycott at the last minute is a good idea.Sandpit said:
Certainly we need to follow the money, there’s billions of roubles in London and other British territories and friendly nations, which would make a difference to a lot of people close to Putin if it were frozen.rkrkrk said:
I suspect sanctions/financial restrictions/clamp down on tax havens is the way to go.Sandpit said:
Not too provocative in terms of international norms - but will be painful for some powerful people near Putin.
Boycotting the World Cup would be a powerful statement - especially if we could get other European nations to do it as well. That might carry some domestic political risks though.
WC boycott needs to be properly organised, with at least a dozen nations involved and announced at the last minute for maximum effect. The negotiations for this are probably going on at a diplomatic level behind the scenes - for example the FA and TV companies will need looking after if England withdraw, and similar considerations will also be the case in other countries. I think that, deep down, a number of Western nations would rather not go to Russia or Qatar, and a good opportunity to facilitate that has just presented itself.
In any case I doubt that any of this is going to happen.
It needs a lot of matches cancelled and a lot of big names not there, if it’s to be effective at humiliating Russia.
If she wanted to boycott she should quickly get a few other countries to agree, announce and then try and pressure others to join in, so there are increasing, rolling numbers of nations cancelling/dropping out.
*He says - having never organized a boycott of anything never mind a world cup*0 -
The last few months have tested polling loyalty to the Conservatives, with the government displaying division and incompetence on a rolling basis. But the Conservatives have not suffered in the slightest in the polls.
This week has revealed Jeremy Corbyn at odds with the rest of his Parliamentary party and taking a view on the use of nerve gas on British soil that is, to put it kindly, niche. So the next few polls will be a test of Labour’s polling resilience. My guess? It won’t make much difference.0 -
My guess is that the government wants to still have some unilateral shots in its locker so that it can go further when Russia responds as it inevitably will. They are also anxious, correctly, to build up the multilateral response. France is already moaning we have gone too far too fast. A very strong response would probably have made building that consensus harder.JackW said:
Putin is playing Russian roulette against us with all chambers filled. Mrs May responds by playing the card - Mrs Bun the baker's' wife from "Happy Families".bigjohnowls said:
We hold all the cards!!JackW said:
The time is now. Just for starters and by no means an exhaustive list :JosiasJessop said:
I agree, if this is all we are doing.JackW said:
I regret to say that the government response will not deter the Russian state. If this is "robust" then I dread to think what a weak response would look like.rkrkrk said:Absolutely right.
We don’t want to start a war - but we have to come up with responses that deter them.
Our nation will continue to be attacked by Russia until we grow a pair.
However, this may just be a first stage, and things may also being done that the Great British Public cannot be told about.
1. Expel the Russian ambassador and all but a skeleton staff at the embassy to be engaged in verifiable humanitarian activities.
2 Advise the FA to withdraw from the World Cup. Place a case to FIFA that we cannot compete in a tournament hosted by a state attacking us. Albeit 3 months away propose Germany host the tournament and Italy replace Russia.
3. Formally declare the Russian Federation government a rogue state and criminal enterprise.
4. Place all evidence from all sources of world wide Russian criminal activities in the public domain.
5. All filmed intercepts of Russian military incursions into UK airspace to be placed in the public domain
6. Putin's wealth to be openly scrutinized by House of Commons Select Committee.
7. All tools of of the City of London to be utilized against Russian assets.
8. Beef up Russian section of the BBC World Service.
9. Advise our trading partners and allies that preference will be given to nations/companies not trading with Russia.
10. Stop the cuts to the UK military NOW !!!!!!!!!
Frankly next to useless and only surpassed by the craven incompetence of Jeremy Corbyn.
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Chance of this happening zero.Sandpit said:
Getting a group together and then putting pressure on others might be the way to go, but the most important thing is that the organisers don’t have time to replace the boycotting nations with others - so there is serious disruption to the tournament itself, with sold-out matches cancelled and fans, TV companies, sponsors and FIFA themselves all angry about it.rkrkrk said:
Yes. But domestically - cancelling a world cup the day before for something that happened months ago is going to go down pretty badly.Sandpit said:
If England pull out and are replaced by Italy then Putin will just laugh at us.rkrkrk said:
I don’t know that announcing a boycott at the last minute is a good idea.Sandpit said:
Certainly we need to follow the money, there’s billions of roubles in London and other British territories and friendly nations, which would make a difference to a lot of people close to Putin if it were frozen.rkrkrk said:
I suspect sanctions/financial restrictions/clamp down on tax havens is the way to go.Sandpit said:
Not too provocative in terms of international norms - but will be painful for some powerful people near Putin.
Boycotting the World Cup would be a powerful statement - especially if we could get other European nations to do it as well. That might carry some domestic political risks though.
WC boycott needs to be properly organised, with at least a dozen nations involved and announced at the last minute for maximum effect. The negotiations for this are probably going on at a diplomatic level behind the scenes - for example the FA and TV companies will need looking after if England withdraw, and similar considerations will also be the case in other countries. I think that, deep down, a number of Western nations would rather not go to Russia or Qatar, and a good opportunity to facilitate that has just presented itself.
In any case I doubt that any of this is going to happen.
It needs a lot of matches cancelled and a lot of big names not there, if it’s to be effective at humiliating Russia.
If she wanted to boycott she should quickly get a few other countries to agree, announce and then try and pressure others to join in, so there are increasing, rolling numbers of nations cancelling/dropping out.
*He says - having never organized a boycott of anything never mind a world cup*
More chance of me voting Tory
0 -
0
-
It does appear that on both sides disdain for the other is more compelling than mere incompetence of their own.AlastairMeeks said:The last few months have tested polling loyalty to the Conservatives, with the government displaying division and incompetence on a rolling basis. But the Conservatives have not suffered in the slightest in the polls.
This week has revealed Jeremy Corbyn at odds with the rest of his Parliamentary party and taking a view on the use of nerve gas on British soil that is, to put it kindly, niche. So the next few polls will be a test of Labour’s polling resilience. My guess? It won’t make much difference.0 -
Looks like they cant get their story straight:williamglenn said:
France undermined Theresa May’s attempts to build a consensus for punitive action against Russia last night by accusing her of punishing the regime prematurely.
President Macron’s spokesman derided Mrs May’s decision to act against Moscow after the Salisbury poisonings as “fantasy politics”. Shortly after the prime minister announced the expulsion of 23 Russian diplomats and the suspension of bilateral talks, Benjamin Griveaux told a news conference in Paris: “Once the elements are proven then the time will come for decisions to be made.” He said that the poisoning of Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia was a “serious act” on a strategic ally but France would await evidence of Russian involvement before taking a position.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/france-defies-may-over-russia-37b27qd2s0 -
There are some who disdain both. I’ll be spoiling my ballot paper at national elections until further notice.DavidL said:
It does appear that on both sides disdain for the other is more compelling than mere incompetence of their own.AlastairMeeks said:The last few months have tested polling loyalty to the Conservatives, with the government displaying division and incompetence on a rolling basis. But the Conservatives have not suffered in the slightest in the polls.
This week has revealed Jeremy Corbyn at odds with the rest of his Parliamentary party and taking a view on the use of nerve gas on British soil that is, to put it kindly, niche. So the next few polls will be a test of Labour’s polling resilience. My guess? It won’t make much difference.0 -
Dribbling out weak actions will have a marginal effect. The government need to hit back quickly, strongly and with determination. The UK must give a firm lead and advise our allies to stand with us or fall within a growing sphere of Russian influence in their own countries.DavidL said:My guess is that the government wants to still have some unilateral shots in its locker so that it can go further when Russia responds as it inevitably will. They are also anxious, correctly, to build up the multilateral response. France is already moaning we have gone too far too fast. A very strong response would probably have made building that consensus harder.
They must choose but we must act regardless.0 -
Faisal presumably missed this part of the statement: "Unilever's employment of 7,300 people in the UK and 3,100 people in the Netherlands will be unaffected by the changes announced today."JonathanD said:Winning Brexit.
https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/974188514047819776
The statement also confirms that the shares will continue to be traded in Amsterdam, London and New York.0 -
Perhaps we could expel a Dutch diplomat for stealing our FTSE companies that should do itJonathanD said:Winning Brexit.
https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/9741885140478197760 -
@nickeardleybbc: Alex Salmond says RT should not be shut down, arguing it’s not a propaganda station and he’s never been told what to do on show0
-
Good morning, everyone.
For all the levity, it's a pretty big thing to dump your Secretary of State.
Mr. D, for a long time Unilever had been pondering becoming a mono-HQ rather than dual-HQ company. Seeing every business decision and event as either vindicating our departure from the EU or condemning it is not especially sensible.0 -
I agree with this sentiment.JackW said:
Dribbling out weak actions will have a marginal effect. The government need to hit back quickly, strongly and with determination. The UK must give a firm lead and advise our allies to stand with us or fall within a growing sphere of Russian influence in their own countries.DavidL said:My guess is that the government wants to still have some unilateral shots in its locker so that it can go further when Russia responds as it inevitably will. They are also anxious, correctly, to build up the multilateral response. France is already moaning we have gone too far too fast. A very strong response would probably have made building that consensus harder.
They must choose but we must act regardless.
One point: it would be presentationally better for these actions to be announced after the sham election in Russia on Sunday so that no suggestion could be made of trying to interfere with it.
But what has been announced so far is pitifully inadequate as a response to the actions alleged.0 -
There is no one to vote for. Only against.AlastairMeeks said:
There are some who disdain both. I’ll be spoiling my ballot paper at national elections until further notice.DavidL said:
It does appear that on both sides disdain for the other is more compelling than mere incompetence of their own.AlastairMeeks said:The last few months have tested polling loyalty to the Conservatives, with the government displaying division and incompetence on a rolling basis. But the Conservatives have not suffered in the slightest in the polls.
This week has revealed Jeremy Corbyn at odds with the rest of his Parliamentary party and taking a view on the use of nerve gas on British soil that is, to put it kindly, niche. So the next few polls will be a test of Labour’s polling resilience. My guess? It won’t make much difference.0 -
Well he doesn't need to be told what to say when he can be relied upon to take a Russo-sympathetic line.Scott_P said:@nickeardleybbc: Alex Salmond says RT should not be shut down, arguing it’s not a propaganda station and he’s never been told what to do on show
0 -
I suspect that Diplomatic expulsions are something that are taken far more seriously at Government level than they are generally perceived.0
-
LOL Poor old Faisal. So desperate to find a bad news Brexit story he can't even get the basics right.JonathanD said:Winning Brexit.
https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/974188514047819776
Contrast his claims with the actual Unilever statement:
"The following will not change as a result of the measures we have announced today (once the process of simplification is complete):
- Unilever's spend in the UK and the Netherlands
- Unilever's employment of 7,300 people in the UK and 3,100 in the Netherlands
- Unilever shares being listed and traded in London, Amsterdam and New York
- The manufacture of Unilever products in the UK and the Netherlands
- A single, Unilever Board, elected annually
- Unilever applying both the UK and Dutch corporate governance codes
- Parity in the dividend and capital return interests of shareholders
- Unilever operating from London and Rotterdam"
0 -
You can never trust Perfidious Grenouilles.williamglenn said:0 -
Galloway goes one better and tells RT what to say.alex. said:
Well he doesn't need to be told what to say when he can be relied upon to take a Russo-sympathetic line.Scott_P said:@nickeardleybbc: Alex Salmond says RT should not be shut down, arguing it’s not a propaganda station and he’s never been told what to do on show
https://twitter.com/georgegalloway/status/9740557594524221440 -
I want to vote against both main parties. Both are actively dangerous.John_M said:
There is no one to vote for. Only against.AlastairMeeks said:
There are some who disdain both. I’ll be spoiling my ballot paper at national elections until further notice.DavidL said:
It does appear that on both sides disdain for the other is more compelling than mere incompetence of their own.AlastairMeeks said:The last few months have tested polling loyalty to the Conservatives, with the government displaying division and incompetence on a rolling basis. But the Conservatives have not suffered in the slightest in the polls.
This week has revealed Jeremy Corbyn at odds with the rest of his Parliamentary party and taking a view on the use of nerve gas on British soil that is, to put it kindly, niche. So the next few polls will be a test of Labour’s polling resilience. My guess? It won’t make much difference.0 -
Been busy at work, but it does seem that politics is on a death spiral.AlastairMeeks said:
I want to vote against both main parties. Both are actively dangerous.John_M said:
There is no one to vote for. Only against.AlastairMeeks said:
There are some who disdain both. I’ll be spoiling my ballot paper at national elections until further notice.DavidL said:
It does appear that on both sides disdain for the other is more compelling than mere incompetence of their own.AlastairMeeks said:The last few months have tested polling loyalty to the Conservatives, with the government displaying division and incompetence on a rolling basis. But the Conservatives have not suffered in the slightest in the polls.
This week has revealed Jeremy Corbyn at odds with the rest of his Parliamentary party and taking a view on the use of nerve gas on British soil that is, to put it kindly, niche. So the next few polls will be a test of Labour’s polling resilience. My guess? It won’t make much difference.0 -
A consumer company will of course not want to upset 52% of it's target market by blaming their vote for an action it takes so there will be plenty of fluff in their statement to make sure they don't offend anyone. Yet the direction of travel is clear, companies will relocate and locate themselves to their bigger market especially if they want to have any success in lobbying the EU.DavidL said:
Faisal presumably missed this part of the statement: "Unilever's employment of 7,300 people in the UK and 3,100 people in the Netherlands will be unaffected by the changes announced today."JonathanD said:Winning Brexit.
https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/974188514047819776
The statement also confirms that the shares will continue to be traded in Amsterdam, London and New York.0 -
AIUI its much more to do with more protective Dutch takeover rules than those of the UK - so not a lot (or anything much) to do with Brexit....Richard_Tyndall said:
LOL Poor old Faisal. So desperate to find a bad news Brexit story he can't even get the basics right.JonathanD said:Winning Brexit.
https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/9741885140478197760 -
It says a lot about the current state of the LDs that they don't even appear to be able to attract the vote of someone like you.AlastairMeeks said:
I want to vote against both main parties. Both are actively dangerous.John_M said:
There is no one to vote for. Only against.AlastairMeeks said:
There are some who disdain both. I’ll be spoiling my ballot paper at national elections until further notice.DavidL said:
It does appear that on both sides disdain for the other is more compelling than mere incompetence of their own.AlastairMeeks said:The last few months have tested polling loyalty to the Conservatives, with the government displaying division and incompetence on a rolling basis. But the Conservatives have not suffered in the slightest in the polls.
This week has revealed Jeremy Corbyn at odds with the rest of his Parliamentary party and taking a view on the use of nerve gas on British soil that is, to put it kindly, niche. So the next few polls will be a test of Labour’s polling resilience. My guess? It won’t make much difference.0 -
We should celebrate that Faisal has the ability to go on our meida and spout bollocks. It wouldn't be allowed in Russia.... (well, not unless it was Putin-authorised bollocks).Richard_Tyndall said:
LOL Poor old Faisal. So desperate to find a bad news Brexit story he can't even get the basics right.JonathanD said:Winning Brexit.
https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/974188514047819776
Contrast his claims with the actual Unilever statement:
"The following will not change as a result of the measures we have announced today (once the process of simplification is complete):
- Unilever's spend in the UK and the Netherlands
- Unilever's employment of 7,300 people in the UK and 3,100 in the Netherlands
- Unilever shares being listed and traded in London, Amsterdam and New York
- The manufacture of Unilever products in the UK and the Netherlands
- A single, Unilever Board, elected annually
- Unilever applying both the UK and Dutch corporate governance codes
- Parity in the dividend and capital return interests of shareholders
- Unilever operating from London and Rotterdam"0 -
F A L K L A N D S M O M E N Tbigjohnowls said:
We hold all the cards!!JackW said:
The time is now. Just for starters and by no means an exhaustive list :JosiasJessop said:
I agree, if this is all we are doing.JackW said:
I regret to say that the government response will not deter the Russian state. If this is "robust" then I dread to think what a weak response would look like.rkrkrk said:Absolutely right.
We don’t want to start a war - but we have to come up with responses that deter them.
Our nation will continue to be attacked by Russia until we grow a pair.
However, this may just be a first stage, and things may also being done that the Great British Public cannot be told about.
1. Expel the Russian ambassador and all but a skeleton staff at the embassy to be engaged in verifiable humanitarian activities.
2 Advise the FA to withdraw from the World Cup. Place a case to FIFA that we cannot compete in a tournament hosted by a state attacking us. Albeit 3 months away propose Germany host the tournament and Italy replace Russia.
3. Formally declare the Russian Federation government a rogue state and criminal enterprise.
4. Place all evidence from all sources of world wide Russian criminal activities in the public domain.
5. All filmed intercepts of Russian military incursions into UK airspace to be placed in the public domain
6. Putin's wealth to be openly scrutinized by House of Commons Select Committee.
7. All tools of of the City of London to be utilized against Russian assets.
8. Beef up Russian section of the BBC World Service.
9. Advise our trading partners and allies that preference will be given to nations/companies not trading with Russia.
10. Stop the cuts to the UK military NOW !!!!!!!!!0 -
OT, but the eighth episode of my daft webcomic, Tales of Knights and Nitwits, is up today. It's got a monster guest appearance, and I was a bit surprised when a Twitter poll (with this as an unprompted suggestion) decided he should be called Mogg, as in Jacob Rees-Mogg.
http://thaddeusthesixth.blogspot.co.uk/2018/03/tales-of-knights-and-nitwits-episode-8.html-1 -
I'm sure you're correct in general, but in this instance, wrong.JonathanD said:
A consumer company will of course not want to upset 52% of it's target market by blaming their vote for an action it takes so there will be plenty of fluff in their statement to make sure they don't offend anyone. Yet the direction of travel is clear, companies will relocate and locate themselves to their bigger market especially if they want to have any success in lobbying the EU.DavidL said:
Faisal presumably missed this part of the statement: "Unilever's employment of 7,300 people in the UK and 3,100 people in the Netherlands will be unaffected by the changes announced today."JonathanD said:Winning Brexit.
https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/974188514047819776
The statement also confirms that the shares will continue to be traded in Amsterdam, London and New York.
I used to work for a large US computer company. In the 90s, I was the EMEA account manager for Unilever. They were discussing moving the HQ to the Netherlands back then (the dual HQ structure caused all kinds of issues, not least ferocious internal politics).
I think the Kraft bid spooked them, and they're going to use Dutch law to help protect them from another hostile bid.0 -
There is an extraordinary coalition of support for Theresa May's decision to blame Russia and for her plan to expel 23 diplomats, impose sanctions and cut ties, including ministers and royals boycotting the World Cup.
It stretches from Nigel Farage to Caroline Lucas, from the DUP to the Lib Dems, from Donald Trump to Nicola Sturgeon.
All except the Labour leader.
(from the Red Box email)0 -
banning RT makes me think of the 1988/9 prohibition of Sinn Fein being allowed to speak on radio & TV, it didnt work then and I cant see what it will achieve now....alex. said:
Well he doesn't need to be told what to say when he can be relied upon to take a Russo-sympathetic line.Scott_P said:@nickeardleybbc: Alex Salmond says RT should not be shut down, arguing it’s not a propaganda station and he’s never been told what to do on show
0 -
Though does rather dilute future attacks on 'red Tories' from Scot nats given they are supporting May unlike CorbynTheScreamingEagles said:There is an extraordinary coalition of support for Theresa May's decision to blame Russia and for her plan to expel 23 diplomats, impose sanctions and cut ties, including ministers and royals boycotting the World Cup.
It stretches from Nigel Farage to Caroline Lucas, from the DUP to the Lib Dems, from Donald Trump to Nicola Sturgeon.
All except the Labour leader.
(from the Red Box email)0 -
@StigAbell: I think the best protest against Putin would be for England to go to the World Cup and then heroically, quietly allow itself to be knocked out in the group stages after three largely forgettable performances.0
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Mr. M, yeah, Kraft taking over Cadbury has not worked out well.
Mr. Eagles, reminds me of a Twitter comment I saw about the leader of the Greens being more hawkish than the leader of Labour.0 -
There’s not even a Monster Raving Loony ‘organisation’ hereabouts.John_M said:
There is no one to vote for. Only against.AlastairMeeks said:
There are some who disdain both. I’ll be spoiling my ballot paper at national elections until further notice.DavidL said:
It does appear that on both sides disdain for the other is more compelling than mere incompetence of their own.AlastairMeeks said:The last few months have tested polling loyalty to the Conservatives, with the government displaying division and incompetence on a rolling basis. But the Conservatives have not suffered in the slightest in the polls.
This week has revealed Jeremy Corbyn at odds with the rest of his Parliamentary party and taking a view on the use of nerve gas on British soil that is, to put it kindly, niche. So the next few polls will be a test of Labour’s polling resilience. My guess? It won’t make much difference.0 -
The consequences of FIFA bribe-taking are clear to see. Putin gets to buy the undeserved respectability of hosting the World Cup. We are left either making a forlorn stance by staying at home - and being replaced by Italy - or meekly going along to exit after the group stage (whilst our supporters get a state-sponsored shellacking).
That is the poison of the Blatter kleptocracy coming up against the Putin kleptocracy.
(Oh, and I fully expect our team to go down with some really debilitating stomach bugs whilst there. Not the A-team of nerve agents, just the second reserves of deeply unpleasant non-lethal nasties.)0 -
Better ignored than banned. The one item from Jack W's list of suggested actions that I would emphatically endorse is the beefing-up of BBC's Russian language service. That would be the most effective counter-move.swing_voter said:
banning RT makes me think of the 1988/9 prohibition of Sinn Fein being allowed to speak on radio & TV, it didnt work then and I cant see what it will achieve now....alex. said:
Well he doesn't need to be told what to say when he can be relied upon to take a Russo-sympathetic line.Scott_P said:@nickeardleybbc: Alex Salmond says RT should not be shut down, arguing it’s not a propaganda station and he’s never been told what to do on show
0 -
@aljwhite: Good news, sounds like we might be pulling out https://twitter.com/psmith/status/9741990256363970570
-
At least we would bed-block the Italians.....Scott_P said:@StigAbell: I think the best protest against Putin would be for England to go to the World Cup and then heroically, quietly allow itself to be knocked out in the group stages after three largely forgettable performances.
0 -
Short of nuking Moscow or sending an invasion force to Russia which would obviously be totally disproportionate, May's combination of sanctions and expulsions is the best responseJackW said:
Putin is playing Russian roulette against us with all chambers filled. Mrs May responds by playing the card - Mrs Bun the baker's' wife from "Happy Families".bigjohnowls said:
We hold all the cards!!JackW said:
The time is now. Just for starters and by no means an exhaustive list :JosiasJessop said:
I agree, if this is all we are doing.JackW said:
I regret to say that the government response will not deter the Russian state. If this is "robust" then I dread to think what a weak response would look like.rkrkrk said:Absolutely right.
We don’t want to start a war - but we have to come up with responses that deter them.
Our nation will continue to be attacked by Russia until we grow a pair.
However, this may just be a first stage, and things may also being done that the Great British Public cannot be told about.
1. Expel the Russian ambassador and all but a skeleton staff at the embassy to be engaged in verifiable humanitarian activities.
2 Advise the FA to withdraw from the World Cup. Place a case to FIFA that we cannot compete in a tournament hosted by a state attacking us. Albeit 3 months away propose Germany host the tournament and Italy replace Russia.
3. Formally declare the Russian Federation government a rogue state and criminal enterprise.
4. Place all evidence from all sources of world wide Russian criminal activities in the public domain.
5. All filmed intercepts of Russian military incursions into UK airspace to be placed in the public domain
6. Putin's wealth to be openly scrutinized by House of Commons Select Committee.
7. All tools of of the City of London to be utilized against Russian assets.
8. Beef up Russian section of the BBC World Service.
9. Advise our trading partners and allies that preference will be given to nations/companies not trading with Russia.
10. Stop the cuts to the UK military NOW !!!!!!!!!
Frankly next to useless and only surpassed by the craven incompetence of Jeremy Corbyn.0 -
Yes, worked in Brazil in 2014, though I can't quite remember what it was that the Brazilian Government had done to incur our ire.Scott_P said:@StigAbell: I think the best protest against Putin would be for England to go to the World Cup and then heroically, quietly allow itself to be knocked out in the group stages after three largely forgettable performances.
0 -
You don't think there might be some measures in between those two approaches?HYUFD said:
Short of nuking Moscow or sending an invasion force to Russia which would obviously be totally disproportionate, May's combination of sanctions and expulsions is the best responseJackW said:
Putin is playing Russian roulette against us with all chambers filled. Mrs May responds by playing the card - Mrs Bun the baker's' wife from "Happy Families".bigjohnowls said:
We hold all the cards!!JackW said:
The time is now. Just for starters and by no means an exhaustive list :JosiasJessop said:
I agree, if this is all we are doing.JackW said:
I regret to say that the government response will not deter the Russian state. If this is "robust" then I dread to think what a weak response would look like.rkrkrk said:Absolutely right.
We don’t want to start a war - but we have to come up with responses that deter them.
Our nation will continue to be attacked by Russia until we grow a pair.
However, this may just be a first stage, and things may also being done that the Great British Public cannot be told about.
1. Expel the Russian ambassador and all but a skeleton staff at the embassy to be engaged in verifiable humanitarian activities.
2 Advise the FA to withdraw from the World Cup. Place a case to FIFA that we cannot compete in a tournament hosted by a state attacking us. Albeit 3 months away propose Germany host the tournament and Italy replace Russia.
3. Formally declare the Russian Federation government a rogue state and criminal enterprise.
4. Place all evidence from all sources of world wide Russian criminal activities in the public domain.
5. All filmed intercepts of Russian military incursions into UK airspace to be placed in the public domain
6. Putin's wealth to be openly scrutinized by House of Commons Select Committee.
7. All tools of of the City of London to be utilized against Russian assets.
8. Beef up Russian section of the BBC World Service.
9. Advise our trading partners and allies that preference will be given to nations/companies not trading with Russia.
10. Stop the cuts to the UK military NOW !!!!!!!!!
Frankly next to useless and only surpassed by the craven incompetence of Jeremy Corbyn.0 -
There are tools in the City of London? Who knew?JackW said:
The time is now. Just for starters and by no means an exhaustive list :JosiasJessop said:
I agree, if this is all we are doing.JackW said:
I regret to say that the government response will not deter the Russian state. If this is "robust" then I dread to think what a weak response would look like.rkrkrk said:Absolutely right.
We don’t want to start a war - but we have to come up with responses that deter them.
Our nation will continue to be attacked by Russia until we grow a pair.
However, this may just be a first stage, and things may also being done that the Great British Public cannot be told about.
1. Expel the Russian ambassador and all but a skeleton staff at the embassy to be engaged in verifiable humanitarian activities.
2 Advise the FA to withdraw from the World Cup. Place a case to FIFA that we cannot compete in a tournament hosted by a state attacking us. Albeit 3 months away propose Germany host the tournament and Italy replace Russia.
3. Formally declare the Russian Federation government a rogue state and criminal enterprise.
4. Place all evidence from all sources of world wide Russian criminal activities in the public domain.
5. All filmed intercepts of Russian military incursions into UK airspace to be placed in the public domain
6. Putin's wealth to be openly scrutinized by House of Commons Select Committee.
7. All tools of of the City of London to be utilized against Russian assets.
8. Beef up Russian section of the BBC World Service.
9. Advise our trading partners and allies that preference will be given to nations/companies not trading with Russia.
10. Stop the cuts to the UK military NOW !!!!!!!!!
The correct plan was always 1. Announce stuff 2. Get everyone on board with it 3. Announce a lot more stuff. It was always on the cards that other nations would be looking to say "Yes, it's an outrage, but this is way over the top." May done good, so far.
The usual flouncers were hoping for silence punctuated by a tweet from Tusk saying "LOL at Salisbury, You're on your own on this one, you plucky little Englanders." When you're hoping for that, the revelation that the world's second largest Anglo Dutch company is Anglo Dutch, is thin gruel. Never mind lads, perhaps someone as quintessentially British as Shell Oil will follow suit.0 -
RT gets a lot of press for a station that reaches about 150k people. The Red Button and PBS America gets more viewers.0
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Not that I can think of of any significance apart from a trade warwilliamglenn said:
You don't think there might be some measures in between those two approaches?HYUFD said:
Short of nuking Moscow or sending an invasion force to Russia which would obviously be totally disproportionate, May's combination of sanctions and expulsions is the best responseJackW said:
Putin is playing Russian roulette against us with all chambers filled. Mrs May responds by playing the card - Mrs Bun the baker's' wife from "Happy Families".bigjohnowls said:
We hold all the cards!!JackW said:
The time is now. Just for starters and by no means an exhaustive list :JosiasJessop said:
I agree, if this is all we are doing.JackW said:
I regret to say that the government response will not deter the Russian state. If this is "robust" then I dread to think what a weak response would look like.rkrkrk said:Absolutely right.
We don’t want to start a war - but we have to come up with responses that deter them.
Our nation will continue to be attacked by Russia until we grow a pair.
However, this may just be a first stage, and things may also being done that the Great British Public cannot be told about.
1. Expel the Russian ambassador and all but a skeleton staff at the embassy to be engaged in verifiable humanitarian activities.
2 Advise the FA to withdraw from the World Cup. Place a case to FIFA that we cannot compete in a tournament hosted by a state attacking us. Albeit 3 months away propose Germany host the tournament and Italy replace Russia.
3. Formally declare the Russian Federation government a rogue state and criminal enterprise.
4. Place all evidence from all sources of world wide Russian criminal activities in the public domain.
5. All filmed intercepts of Russian military incursions into UK airspace to be placed in the public domain
6. Putin's wealth to be openly scrutinized by House of Commons Select Committee.
7. All tools of of the City of London to be utilized against Russian assets.
8. Beef up Russian section of the BBC World Service.
9. Advise our trading partners and allies that preference will be given to nations/companies not trading with Russia.
10. Stop the cuts to the UK military NOW !!!!!!!!!
Frankly next to useless and only surpassed by the craven incompetence of Jeremy Corbyn.0 -
Cheltenham - Day 3
1:30 Terrefort
2:10 A Great View
2:50 Frodon
3:30 Sam Spinner
4:10 The Storyteller
4:50 Laurina
5:30 Sugar Baron0 -
Tom Newton Dunn
Nia Griffith did not ask @LOTOcomms permission to go on @BBCr4today now. In its self, a hefty act of rebellion.
Kevin Schofield
Shadow Defence Secretary Nia Griffith: "We accept ... that Russia is responsible for this attack." Anyone keeping count of Labour's different positions on this? #r4today
This is all going well....
0 -
This is the Internet. There are no shades of grey here. So, are you for nuking Moscow or are you a filthy Putin apologist?williamglenn said:
You don't think there might be some measures in between those two approaches?HYUFD said:
Short of nuking Moscow or sending an invasion force to Russia which would obviously be totally disproportionate, May's combination of sanctions and expulsions is the best responseJackW said:
Putin is playing Russian roulette against us with all chambers filled. Mrs May responds by playing the card - Mrs Bun the baker's' wife from "Happy Families".bigjohnowls said:
We hold all the cards!!JackW said:
The time is now. Just for starters and by no means an exhaustive list :JosiasJessop said:
I agree, if this is all we are doing.JackW said:
I regret to say that the government response will not deter the Russian state. If this is "robust" then I dread to think what a weak response would look like.rkrkrk said:Absolutely right.
We don’t want to start a war - but we have to come up with responses that deter them.
Our nation will continue to be attacked by Russia until we grow a pair.
However, this may just be a first stage, and things may also being done that the Great British Public cannot be told about.
1. Expel the Russian ambassador and all but a skeleton staff at the embassy to be engaged in verifiable humanitarian activities.
2 Advise the FA to withdraw from the World Cup. Place a case to FIFA that we cannot compete in a tournament hosted by a state attacking us. Albeit 3 months away propose Germany host the tournament and Italy replace Russia.
3. Formally declare the Russian Federation government a rogue state and criminal enterprise.
4. Place all evidence from all sources of world wide Russian criminal activities in the public domain.
5. All filmed intercepts of Russian military incursions into UK airspace to be placed in the public domain
6. Putin's wealth to be openly scrutinized by House of Commons Select Committee.
7. All tools of of the City of London to be utilized against Russian assets.
8. Beef up Russian section of the BBC World Service.
9. Advise our trading partners and allies that preference will be given to nations/companies not trading with Russia.
10. Stop the cuts to the UK military NOW !!!!!!!!!
Frankly next to useless and only surpassed by the craven incompetence of Jeremy Corbyn.0 -
@tnewtondunn: Nia Griffith now dictating foreign policy to Corbyn, that Russia is to blame for #Salisbury: “I can assure you that is very strongly our front bench position now” @BBCr4today
@rosschawkins: Nia Griffith says - I can't speak for Seumas Milne he has to speak for himself0 -
We won't be we are just not sending the Royals or senior officialsScott_P said:@aljwhite: Good news, sounds like we might be pulling out https://twitter.com/psmith/status/974199025636397057
0 -
F1: was perusing the win market for Australia. Oddly hard to call, not just because it's the first race. Last year, Ferrari was best on street circuits (although Oz is a bit faster than places like Monaco), and Red Bull was also very good. But this year the Prancing Horse has lengthened its wheelbase a smidge (harmful for streets, helpful for proper circuits), the Renault engine is reportedly being developed, early on, with reliability over performance in mind, and the Mercedes was weaker on the streets last year but they've increased the rake...
So even if I had an idea of relative performance on a neutral circuit, it's tricky to call so early. Hmm. And the midfield should be very competitive too.0 -
Except they already had a Dutch HQ, so already had that protection. That they have been talking about simplifying for years but only suddenly done it just after Brexit makes it fairly clear what the cause was.John_M said:
I think the Kraft bid spooked them, and they're going to use Dutch law to help protect them from another hostile bid.JonathanD said:
A consumer company will of course not want to upset 52% of it's target market by blaming their vote for an action it takes so there will be plenty of fluff in their statement to make sure they don't offend anyone. Yet the direction of travel is clear, companies will relocate and locate themselves to their bigger market especially if they want to have any success in lobbying the EU.DavidL said:
Faisal presumably missed this part of the statement: "Unilever's employment of 7,300 people in the UK and 3,100 people in the Netherlands will be unaffected by the changes announced today."JonathanD said:Winning Brexit.
https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/974188514047819776
The statement also confirms that the shares will continue to be traded in Amsterdam, London and New York.
Anyway, this is all part of the important rebalancing of the UKs economy away from London that Brexiteers wanted so all good in the end i guess.0 -
Thank you.rcs1000 said:
Every pb poster needs to print this out and pin it next to their computer.kle4 said:
He's a human man, big john, he's been right on some things and wrong about plenty of others, neither are in themselves proof he is right or wrong about this thing. Each situation must be judged on its individual merits.bigjohnowls said:
Our MPs were remarkably together across the parties in the HOC regarding Iraq, Libya, PFI and lots of other matters (apart from Corbyn).Big_G_NorthWales said:
Not the view held by our MPs (apart from Corbyn) who were remarkably together across the parties today in the HOC, nor tonight in a statement from Donald Tusk or from the UN ex USSRhunchman said:More rabid Russian xenophobia on here tonight. Our government has offered no proof that Russia did it. Why did they fail to comply with the Russian response of handing over the substance concerned? The timing of the Salisbury incident bothers me in the run up to the Russian election. And Salisbury seems very convenient for the UK government being the major population centre nearest to Porton Down.
Of course I have no proof or evidence of who dunnit, but given what I know about many members of this government having followed the money trails they have been involved in, they are some of the very last people that I would trust. There are far too many people jumping to conclusions, when there is no firm evidence to allege that Russian government backed agents carried out the misdeed.
Corbyn was right about all of them.0 -
That has somewhat patronising overtones of "If only they could hear in RP Russian what a shower that Putin and his cronies are, they'd jolly well do something about it!". Russians that care know full well; it's just that the people they would like to vote for as an alternative to Putin end up in jail on trumped up charges - or end up dead.ThomasNashe said:
Better ignored than banned. The one item from Jack W's list of suggested actions that I would emphatically endorse is the beefing-up of BBC's Russian language service. That would be the most effective counter-move.swing_voter said:
banning RT makes me think of the 1988/9 prohibition of Sinn Fein being allowed to speak on radio & TV, it didnt work then and I cant see what it will achieve now....alex. said:
Well he doesn't need to be told what to say when he can be relied upon to take a Russo-sympathetic line.Scott_P said:@nickeardleybbc: Alex Salmond says RT should not be shut down, arguing it’s not a propaganda station and he’s never been told what to do on show
0 -
The pros and the nerds are keeping count. Not many others are.Slackbladder said:
Tom Newton Dunn
Nia Griffith did not ask @LOTOcomms permission to go on @BBCr4today now. In its self, a hefty act of rebellion.
Kevin Schofield
Shadow Defence Secretary Nia Griffith: "We accept ... that Russia is responsible for this attack." Anyone keeping count of Labour's different positions on this? #r4today
This is all going well....
Who knows if any of this will cut through. The Tories have a clear change to paint Corbyn as a threat to the country - but it needs to be done in the right way and with the right preparation: and that means that people need to be listening to what he's saying and understanding the consequences of it. There's a lot of work that needs to be done before a poster of Corbyn in Putin's pocket will be effective.0 -
Mr. P, are you backing those win only or each way?0
-
You’ve erm missed the joke...HYUFD said:
We won't be we are just not sending the Royals or senior officialsScott_P said:@aljwhite: Good news, sounds like we might be pulling out https://twitter.com/psmith/status/974199025636397057
0 -
NEW THREAD
0 -
Each way multiples.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. P, are you backing those win only or each way?
Day 1, £12 returned £105
Day 2, £24 returned £3
Only idiots bet on horses racing...0 -
Mrs May's response has been weak and there are, as I noted down thread, a large number of actions short of your cataclysm that may be employed.HYUFD said:
Short of nuking Moscow or sending an invasion force to Russia which would obviously be totally disproportionate, May's combination of sanctions and expulsions is the best responseJackW said:
Putin is playing Russian roulette against us with all chambers filled. Mrs May responds by playing the card - Mrs Bun the baker's' wife from "Happy Families".bigjohnowls said:
We hold all the cards!!JackW said:
The time is now. Just for starters and by no means an exhaustive list :JosiasJessop said:
I agree, if this is all we are doing.JackW said:
I regret to say that the government response will not deter the Russian state. If this is "robust" then I dread to think what a weak response would look like.rkrkrk said:Absolutely right.
We don’t want to start a war - but we have to come up with responses that deter them.
Our nation will continue to be attacked by Russia until we grow a pair.
However, this may just be a first stage, and things may also being done that the Great British Public cannot be told about.
1. Expel the Russian ambassador and all but a skeleton staff at the embassy to be engaged in verifiable humanitarian activities.
2 Advise the FA to withdraw from the World Cup. Place a case to FIFA that we cannot compete in a tournament hosted by a state attacking us. Albeit 3 months away propose Germany host the tournament and Italy replace Russia.
3. Formally declare the Russian Federation government a rogue state and criminal enterprise.
4. Place all evidence from all sources of world wide Russian criminal activities in the public domain.
5. All filmed intercepts of Russian military incursions into UK airspace to be placed in the public domain
6. Putin's wealth to be openly scrutinized by House of Commons Select Committee.
7. All tools of of the City of London to be utilized against Russian assets.
8. Beef up Russian section of the BBC World Service.
9. Advise our trading partners and allies that preference will be given to nations/companies not trading with Russia.
10. Stop the cuts to the UK military NOW !!!!!!!!!
Frankly next to useless and only surpassed by the craven incompetence of Jeremy Corbyn.
Dear god even Ted Heath expelled 105 Russians in response to cold war Soviet spying. Putin deploys chemical weapons and previously nuclear materials on UK soil and Mrs May huffs and puffs and be sure Russian state will come for us again.0 -
They had protection for the NV. But have it your way. It's Brexit, and Brexit alone.JonathanD said:
Except they already had a Dutch HQ, so already had that protection. That they have been talking about simplifying for years but only suddenly done it just after Brexit makes it fairly clear what the cause was.John_M said:
I think the Kraft bid spooked them, and they're going to use Dutch law to help protect them from another hostile bid.JonathanD said:
A consumer company will of course not want to upset 52% of it's target market by blaming their vote for an action it takes so there will be plenty of fluff in their statement to make sure they don't offend anyone. Yet the direction of travel is clear, companies will relocate and locate themselves to their bigger market especially if they want to have any success in lobbying the EU.DavidL said:
Faisal presumably missed this part of the statement: "Unilever's employment of 7,300 people in the UK and 3,100 people in the Netherlands will be unaffected by the changes announced today."JonathanD said:Winning Brexit.
https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/974188514047819776
The statement also confirms that the shares will continue to be traded in Amsterdam, London and New York.
Anyway, this is all part of the important rebalancing of the UKs economy away from London that Brexiteers wanted so all good in the end i guess.0 -
Mr. P, cheers.0
-
And some on here thought he was impartial.Richard_Tyndall said:
LOL Poor old Faisal. So desperate to find a bad news Brexit story he can't even get the basics right.JonathanD said:Winning Brexit.
https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/974188514047819776
Contrast his claims with the actual Unilever statement:
"The following will not change as a result of the measures we have announced today (once the process of simplification is complete):
- Unilever's spend in the UK and the Netherlands
- Unilever's employment of 7,300 people in the UK and 3,100 in the Netherlands
- Unilever shares being listed and traded in London, Amsterdam and New York
- The manufacture of Unilever products in the UK and the Netherlands
- A single, Unilever Board, elected annually
- Unilever applying both the UK and Dutch corporate governance codes
- Parity in the dividend and capital return interests of shareholders
- Unilever operating from London and Rotterdam"0 -
So it is really a matter of degree over expulsions which will really make little more difference either way, 23 expulsions is still the most since 1985JackW said:
Mrs May's response has been weak and there are, as I noted down thread, a large number of actions short of your cataclysm that may be employed.HYUFD said:
Short of nuking Moscow or sending an invasion force to Russia which would obviously be totally disproportionate, May's combination of sanctions and expulsions is the best responseJackW said:
Putin is playing Russian roulette against us with all chambers filled. Mrs May responds by playing the card - Mrs Bun the baker's' wife from "Happy Families".bigjohnowls said:
We hold all the cards!!JackW said:
The time is now. Just for starters and by no means an exhaustive list :JosiasJessop said:
I agree, if this is all we are doing.JackW said:
I regret to say that the government response will not deter the Russian state. If this is "robust" then I dread to think what a weak response would look like.rkrkrk said:Absolutely right.
We don’t want to start a war - but we have to come up with responses that deter them.
Our nation will continue to be attacked by Russia until we grow a pair.
However, this may just be a first stage, and things may also being done that the Great British Public cannot be told about.
1. Expel the Russian ambassador and all but a skeleton staff at the embassy to be engaged in verifiable humanitarian activities.
2 Advise the FA to withdraw from the World Cup. at preference will be given to nations/companies not trading with Russia.
10. Stop the cuts to the UK military NOW !!!!!!!!!
Frankly next to useless and only surpassed by the craven incompetence of Jeremy Corbyn.
Dear god even Ted Heath expelled 105 Russians in response to cold war Soviet spying. Putin deploys chemical weapons and previously nuclear materials on UK soil and Mrs May huffs and puffs and be sure Russian state will come for us again.0 -
You are seriously suggesting that our allies would do it, but because of leaving the EU they won't, even though we are still allies? What kind of fair weather friends are they then? And so much for the idea the EU has noble aims if they would react like that. Once more sometimes supporters of it seem to have a very low opinion of it.ThomasNashe said:
A world cup boycott would be effective if the UK could call on other European nations - Germany particularly - to join. Unfortunately, the self-harming decision to wilfully diminish our influence in Europe has clearly ruled that out as a possibility.rkrkrk said:
I don’t know that announcing a boycott at the last minute is a good idea.Sandpit said:
Certainly we need to follow the money, there’s billions of roubles in London and other British territories and friendly nations, which would make a difference to a lot of people close to Putin if it were frozen.rkrkrk said:
I suspect sanctions/financial restrictions/clamp down on tax havens is the way to go.Sandpit said:
Indeed, we don’t want to start a war but we have to react to an extreme provocation or else they will just keep poking.
Just catching up on yesterday in Parliament, with the one obvious exception pretty much unanimity for the government’s actions, and a huge amount of international backing from them too. Obviously a lot of work gone on behind the scenes in the past few days. Some of the harshest responses will be convert or investigatory in nature and weren’t announced yesterday.
Not too provocative in terms of international norms - but will be painful for some powerful people near Putin.
Boycotting the World Cup would be a powerful statement - especially if we could get other European nations to do it as well. That might carry some domestic political risks though.
WC boycott needs to be properly organised, with at least a dozen nations involved and announced at the last minute for maximum effect. The negotiations for this are probably going on at a diplomatic level behind the scenes - for example the FA and TV companies will need looking after if England withdraw, and similar considerations will also be the case in other countries. I think that, deep down, a number of Western nations would rather not go to Russia or Qatar, and a good opportunity to facilitate that has just presented itself.
In any case I doubt that any of this is going to happen.0 -
Would you accept that Brexit is a catalyst?John_M said:
They had protection for the NV. But have it your way. It's Brexit, and Brexit alone.JonathanD said:
Except they already had a Dutch HQ, so already had that protection. That they have been talking about simplifying for years but only suddenly done it just after Brexit makes it fairly clear what the cause was.John_M said:
I think the Kraft bid spooked them, and they're going to use Dutch law to help protect them from another hostile bid.JonathanD said:
A consumer company will of course not want to upset 52% of it's target market by blaming their vote for an action it takes so there will be plenty of fluff in their statement to make sure they don't offend anyone. Yet the direction of travel is clear, companies will relocate and locate themselves to their bigger market especially if they want to have any success in lobbying the EU.DavidL said:
Faisal presumably missed this part of the statement: "Unilever's employment of 7,300 people in the UK and 3,100 people in the Netherlands will be unaffected by the changes announced today."JonathanD said:Winning Brexit.
https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/974188514047819776
The statement also confirms that the shares will continue to be traded in Amsterdam, London and New York.
Anyway, this is all part of the important rebalancing of the UKs economy away from London that Brexiteers wanted so all good in the end i guess.0 -
+1kle4 said:
You are seriously suggesting that our allies would do it, but because of leaving the EU they won't, even though we are still allies? What kind of fair weather friends are they then? And so much for the idea the EU has noble aims if they would react like that. Once more sometimes supporters of it seem to have a very low opinion of it.ThomasNashe said:
A world cup boycott would be effective if the UK could call on other European nations - Germany particularly - to join. Unfortunately, the self-harming decision to wilfully diminish our influence in Europe has clearly ruled that out as a possibility.rkrkrk said:
I don’t know that announcing a boycott at the last minute is a good idea.Sandpit said:
Certainly we need to follow the money, there’s billions of roubles in London and other British territories and friendly nations, which would make a difference to a lot of people close to Putin if it were frozen.rkrkrk said:
I suspect sanctions/financial restrictions/clamp down on tax havens is the way to go.Sandpit said:
Indeed, we don’t want to start a war but we have to react to an extreme provocation or else they will just keep poking.
Just catching up on yesterday in Parliament, with the one obvious exception pretty much unanimity for the government’s actions, and a huge amount of international backing from them too. Obviously a lot of work gone on behind the scenes in the past few days. Some of the harshest responses will be convert or investigatory in nature and weren’t announced yesterday.
Not too provocative in terms of international norms - but will be painful for some powerful people near Putin.
Boycotting the World Cup would be a powerful statement - especially if we could get other European nations to do it as well. That might carry some domestic political risks though.
WC boycott needs to be properly organised, with at least a dozen nations involved and announced at the last minute for maximum effect. The negotiations for this are probably going on at a diplomatic level behind the scenes - for example the FA and TV companies will need looking after if England withdraw, and similar considerations will also be the case in other countries. I think that, deep down, a number of Western nations would rather not go to Russia or Qatar, and a good opportunity to facilitate that has just presented itself.
In any case I doubt that any of this is going to happen.0 -
More likely the Kraft bid was the catalyst.williamglenn said:
Would you accept that Brexit is a catalyst?John_M said:
They had protection for the NV. But have it your way. It's Brexit, and Brexit alone.JonathanD said:
Except they already had a Dutch HQ, so already had that protection. That they have been talking about simplifying for years but only suddenly done it just after Brexit makes it fairly clear what the cause was.John_M said:
I think the Kraft bid spooked them, and they're going to use Dutch law to help protect them from another hostile bid.JonathanD said:
A consumer company will of course not want to upset 52% of it's target market by blaming their vote for an action it takes so there will be plenty of fluff in their statement to make sure they don't offend anyone. Yet the direction of travel is clear, companies will relocate and locate themselves to their bigger market especially if they want to have any success in lobbying the EU.DavidL said:
Faisal presumably missed this part of the statement: "Unilever's employment of 7,300 people in the UK and 3,100 people in the Netherlands will be unaffected by the changes announced today."JonathanD said:Winning Brexit.
https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/974188514047819776
The statement also confirms that the shares will continue to be traded in Amsterdam, London and New York.
Anyway, this is all part of the important rebalancing of the UKs economy away from London that Brexiteers wanted so all good in the end i guess.0 -
Good but it's like Labour on Trident - as long as Corbyn is leader he will never move from his anti-West position. Vote Corbyn - get Putin!Slackbladder said:
Tom Newton Dunn
Nia Griffith did not ask @LOTOcomms permission to go on @BBCr4today now. In its self, a hefty act of rebellion.
Kevin Schofield
Shadow Defence Secretary Nia Griffith: "We accept ... that Russia is responsible for this attack." Anyone keeping count of Labour's different positions on this? #r4today
This is all going well....0 -
Almost entirely to do with takeover protectionJonathanD said:Winning Brexit.
https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/9741885140478197760 -
Elsevier and Royal Dutch Shell went the other way. But no one talks about themJonathanD said:
A consumer company will of course not want to upset 52% of it's target market by blaming their vote for an action it takes so there will be plenty of fluff in their statement to make sure they don't offend anyone. Yet the direction of travel is clear, companies will relocate and locate themselves to their bigger market especially if they want to have any success in lobbying the EU.DavidL said:
Faisal presumably missed this part of the statement: "Unilever's employment of 7,300 people in the UK and 3,100 people in the Netherlands will be unaffected by the changes announced today."JonathanD said:Winning Brexit.
https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/974188514047819776
The statement also confirms that the shares will continue to be traded in Amsterdam, London and New York.0 -
They didn’t have the ability to use a StichtungJonathanD said:
Except they already had a Dutch HQ, so already had that protection. That they have been talking about simplifying for years but only suddenly done it just after Brexit makes it fairly clear what the cause was.John_M said:
I think the Kraft bid spooked them, and they're going to use Dutch law to help protect them from another hostile bid.JonathanD said:
A consumer company will of course not want to upset 52% of it's target market by blaming their vote for an action it takes so there will be plenty of fluff in their statement to make sure they don't offend anyone. Yet the direction of travel is clear, companies will relocate and locate themselves to their bigger market especially if they want to have any success in lobbying the EU.DavidL said:
Faisal presumably missed this part of the statement: "Unilever's employment of 7,300 people in the UK and 3,100 people in the Netherlands will be unaffected by the changes announced today."JonathanD said:Winning Brexit.
https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/974188514047819776
The statement also confirms that the shares will continue to be traded in Amsterdam, London and New York.
Anyway, this is all part of the important rebalancing of the UKs economy away from London that Brexiteers wanted so all good in the end i guess.0
