politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » So crunch day on Russia for the PM
Comments
-
I don't think we would have announced a cyber attack.nielh said:I thought the diplomatic expulsions were not that suprising. No nuclear war or cyber attack then!
0 -
Why would the Seven Years war not count under your first definition? It was fought on 5 of the 7 continents which is only one less than WW2. It also fulfils your second definition of course.david_herdson said:
Yes. I'd argue that either:TheValiant said:
Am I right in thinking that in the latter case, you argue that WWI was a European civil war, and WWII was therefore WWI?david_herdson said:(This does give me my chance to argue that we've either already had WW3 or we've not yet had WW2).
What about the former?
- A 'world war' really has to be a global conflict, in which case there's only ever been one: 1937-45 (or 1941-45, if you prefer the actual global period).
or
- A 'world war' is one that involves the majority of the global powers fighting to the effective limits of their military and financial capacity (and those limits have to be understood in their historical contexts), even if the area within which the fighting takes place is more localised. On that basis, I'd argue that there've been at least four, with the French Revolutionary / Napoleonic Wars forming one, and the Seven Years War being another, though you can potentially make arguments for others too.0 -
Sky reporter saying that he has not had time to analysis and review all the implications on the measures announced and that further measures are more than possible.Gardenwalker said:
Difficult to disagree with that.logical_song said:The view from CNN on 'why Britain and why now'
"Britain is currently weak on the world stage. While it is hard to admit this, virtually every relationship it has is in tatters.
The internal knots of the ruling Conservative Party over the country's future after leaving the European Union have left it more or less incapable of effectively bargaining on one of the most important national issues since the end of World War II."
But we were warned.
By the way, I think May’s response is frankly insufficient. Too cautious by half.
Maybe give a day or two before passing judgement0 -
If I were in Russia now I’d be packing my bags and heading for the airport rather than risk being hostage to whatever Putin might try next.Big_G_NorthWales said:FCO - warning to all UK citizens in Russia or going to take care
0 -
Yeah, but then I remember that the same thing happened while we were in the bosom of the EU. Fat lot of good it did then!AlastairMeeks said:
This seems to have produced a flurry of snowflakes in advance of the weekend. It's obvious (and honest Leavers would admit that Brexit has some downsides and this is one of them). But it appears that some Leavers can't handle the truth.logical_song said:The view from CNN on 'why Britain and why now'
"Britain is currently weak on the world stage. While it is hard to admit this, virtually every relationship it has is in tatters.
The internal knots of the ruling Conservative Party over the country's future after leaving the European Union have left it more or less incapable of effectively bargaining on one of the most important national issues since the end of World War II."0 -
I don't remember anyone asking similar questions about Litvinenko? Why him, why here, why then?AlastairMeeks said:
This seems to have produced a flurry of snowflakes in advance of the weekend. It's obvious (and honest Leavers would admit that Brexit has some downsides and this is one of them). But it appears that some Leavers can't handle the truth.logical_song said:The view from CNN on 'why Britain and why now'
"Britain is currently weak on the world stage. While it is hard to admit this, virtually every relationship it has is in tatters.
The internal knots of the ruling Conservative Party over the country's future after leaving the European Union have left it more or less incapable of effectively bargaining on one of the most important national issues since the end of World War II."0 -
It has more clearly exposed the divisions between the backbenchers and the leadership than almost any other issue. I don't think they have the strength to do anything about Corbyn. It is a shame because our democracy needs a proper opposition party - with a leader who believes in the UK, believes in the rule of law and will stand up for UK interests.Slackbladder said:Anyone see this as a possible last hurrah of the moderates to try to save the labour party?
0 -
No, what will happen is that Corbyn will issue a 'clarification', the sane Labour MPs will go back to sulking quietly on the back-benches, and Corbyn's supporters will accuse anyone who quotes what he said of smearing him.Slackbladder said:Anyone see this as a possible last hurrah of the moderates to try to save the labour party?
0 -
I just want to say, as a very enthusiastic Remain voter, that I don't see (or seek to make) any connection at all between Brexit and the Russian incident.0
-
The Labour leadership are scum. The rest of the PLP needs to show whether they will be complicit or not.glw said:
As I said yesterday, the Russian response seems to be moving towards "it might have been some bad Ukrainian boys with some left over Soviet gloop". They are parroting the Russian line almost word for word.williamglenn said:0 -
I have been to Russia three times and it is a fascinating Country to visitnielh said:
Much as i'd love to visit Russia, I've no desire to do so now or in the near future.Big_G_NorthWales said:FCO - warning to all UK citizens in Russia or going to take care
0 -
I wonder if any of my fellow Bath alumni are prepping anything upTissue_Price said:
I don't think we would have announced a cyber attack.nielh said:I thought the diplomatic expulsions were not that suprising. No nuclear war or cyber attack then!
0 -
There were questions, and it damged UK-Russo relations a lot if I remember, Probably worse now due to the policitical position, and that others were put at risk.tlg86 said:
I don't remember anyone asking similar questions about Litvinenko? Why him, why here, why then?AlastairMeeks said:
This seems to have produced a flurry of snowflakes in advance of the weekend. It's obvious (and honest Leavers would admit that Brexit has some downsides and this is one of them). But it appears that some Leavers can't handle the truth.logical_song said:The view from CNN on 'why Britain and why now'
"Britain is currently weak on the world stage. While it is hard to admit this, virtually every relationship it has is in tatters.
The internal knots of the ruling Conservative Party over the country's future after leaving the European Union have left it more or less incapable of effectively bargaining on one of the most important national issues since the end of World War II."0 -
No, we just don't have an appetite for the sort of bollocks you spout.AlastairMeeks said:
This seems to have produced a flurry of snowflakes in advance of the weekend. It's obvious (and honest Leavers would admit that Brexit has some downsides and this is one of them). But it appears that some Leavers can't handle the truth.logical_song said:The view from CNN on 'why Britain and why now'
"Britain is currently weak on the world stage. While it is hard to admit this, virtually every relationship it has is in tatters.
The internal knots of the ruling Conservative Party over the country's future after leaving the European Union have left it more or less incapable of effectively bargaining on one of the most important national issues since the end of World War II."
I have currently seen no downside at all regarding other countries' reactions to this event. Of course, sad little man that you are, you wish it could be so to try and justify your half arsed narrative but it simply hasn't happened. The European capitals have reacted in exactly the way we would have expected, Brexit or no Brexit.0 -
They have said today the Euro is German currency so maybe they have plans in that respectMorris_Dancer said:Mr. NorthWales, thanks for that info. Presumably that means a referendum on single currency membership could be a realistic prospect?
0 -
Sadly, this is exactly what will happen.Richard_Nabavi said:
No, what will happen is that Corbyn will issue a 'clarification', the sane Labour MPs will go back to sulking quietly on the back-benches, and Corbyn's supporters will accuse anyone who quotes what he said of smearing him.Slackbladder said:Anyone see this as a possible last hurrah of the moderates to try to save the labour party?
0 -
If the EU had more Donald Tusks and less Jean Claude Junckers, it would be a much better institution.The_Apocalypse said:0 -
Jess Phillips
VERIFIED ACCOUNT @jessphillips
I have long known that standing up to bullies is the only answer.
See, Jess gets it.0 -
Decent of you to say so. And there are plenty of other strong Remainers on here who have not tried to make any connection either - probably the vast majority of them. Much like Corbyn and the Labour party it is only a few individuals who seek to tarnish their reputations.Torby_Fennel said:I just want to say, as a very enthusiastic Remain voter, that I don't see (or seek to make) any connection at all between Brexit and the Russian incident.
0 -
I always felt more than a bit sorry for Mr Chamberlain and the time won after Munich was of course critical to us getting Spitfires into service in sufficient numbers to win the Battle of Britain.Mexicanpete said:
If Corbyn is not a surrogate of Putin he is an appeaser. A latter day Neville Chamberlain!oxfordsimon said:
Foreign policy???tyson said:
And the bombing of Syria....he was called out too.BudG said:
Quite. He has form on matters like this.AlastairMeeks said:
As for Jeremy Corbyn, why is anyone surprised at his response?
I recall he was unsupportive of a former Prime Minister who assured the nation that it was right to declare war on Iraq because it was HIGHLY LIKELY that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction. Not at all surprised he is raising questions about evidence.
Corbyn will never rattle a sabre for political point scoring....and his judgement on foreign policy is a lot better than any Tory I can think of....,
Support for Hamas? Hezbollah? Chavez?
That isn't good judgement.
If Mrs May had waited a year to call the GE, she could have framed it as a referendum against the Russian aggressor. A vote for her would be patriotic and a vote for Corbyn would be a vote for Putin!
Corbyn, not so much.0 -
Italy's centre right alliance named by BloombergPulpstar said:
Is that the centre right as in the block of parties or Forza ?Big_G_NorthWales said:Bloomberg reporting - Italy's centre right and 5 Star agree to talks and a government from these talks would spook the financial markets and the EU over their spending plans and Euroscepticism
I'd describe Liga as more right than centre-right, thought Tajani is the leader of the biggest party within the block.
Also Russian stock market falls after TM statement0 -
Let us suppose Russia was not behind it. Russia would be wanting to know who did it and offering to help given their past history and knowledge of the nerve agent. There would be back channel discussions. Russia would not be acting as they are now. This shows that Russia are behind the actions.0
-
Tusk is definitely the best of the 4 presidents. His work securing trade deals with Japan, Canada and others has been excellent too. I hope Fox can bring in the deals like Tusk has.Elliot said:
If the EU had more Donald Tusks and less Jean Claude Junckers, it would be a much better institution.The_Apocalypse said:0 -
"Global Russia"Theuniondivvie said:
"We're more noxious than this"0 -
+1Richard_Tyndall said:
Decent of you to say so. And there are plenty of other strong Remainers on here who have not tried to make any connection either - probably the vast majority of them. Much like Corbyn and the Labour party it is only a few individuals who seek to tarnish their reputations.Torby_Fennel said:I just want to say, as a very enthusiastic Remain voter, that I don't see (or seek to make) any connection at all between Brexit and the Russian incident.
0 -
Mr. Pulpstar, aren't there five presidents?0
-
There is no connection between Brexit and the incident itself. Disingenous Brexiters are creating a straw man.Torby_Fennel said:I just want to say, as a very enthusiastic Remain voter, that I don't see (or seek to make) any connection at all between Brexit and the Russian incident.
There are however, significant geopolitical consequences of Brexit for the U.K. which are important context to this current affair.a
For whatever reason, the U.K. did not seek to make a big deal of Litvinenko. Not EU’s fault.RobD said:
Yeah, but then I remember that the same thing happened while we were in the bosom of the EU. Fat lot of good it did then!AlastairMeeks said:
This seems to have produced a flurry of snowflakes in advance of the weekend. It's obvious (and honest Leavers would admit that Brexit has some downsides and this is one of them). But it appears that some Leavers can't handle the truth.logical_song said:The view from CNN on 'why Britain and why now'
"Britain is currently weak on the world stage. While it is hard to admit this, virtually every relationship it has is in tatters.
The internal knots of the ruling Conservative Party over the country's future after leaving the European Union have left it more or less incapable of effectively bargaining on one of the most important national issues since the end of World War II."0 -
Tusk & Verhofstadt; Junker and presently Tajani?.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Pulpstar, aren't there five presidents?
Who is the fifth ?0 -
Tusk is "new Europe", Juncker is "old Europe", as Rumsfeld might have once said.Elliot said:
If the EU had more Donald Tusks and less Jean Claude Junckers, it would be a much better institution.The_Apocalypse said:0 -
Thankyou Mr May. I mean, Big G.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Sky reporter saying that he has not had time to analysis and review all the implications on the measures announced and that further measures are more than possible.Gardenwalker said:
Difficult to disagree with that.logical_song said:The view from CNN on 'why Britain and why now'
"Britain is currently weak on the world stage. While it is hard to admit this, virtually every relationship it has is in tatters.
The internal knots of the ruling Conservative Party over the country's future after leaving the European Union have left it more or less incapable of effectively bargaining on one of the most important national issues since the end of World War II."
But we were warned.
By the way, I think May’s response is frankly insufficient. Too cautious by half.
Maybe give a day or two before passing judgement0 -
Thanks Richard.Richard_Tyndall said:
Decent of you to say so. And there are plenty of other strong Remainers on here who have not tried to make any connection either - probably the vast majority of them. Much like Corbyn and the Labour party it is only a few individuals who seek to tarnish their reputations.I've not had time to read every single comment made on the Russia crisis but I was getting a little alarmed to see some people linking it to Brexit. I don't think that's helpful to anyone. In my opinion Brexit brings enough problems for this country in its own right without trying to create fictional links to every other bad thing that happens.
0 -
But fair point surelyGardenwalker said:
Thankyou Mr May. I mean, Big G.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Sky reporter saying that he has not had time to analysis and review all the implications on the measures announced and that further measures are more than possible.Gardenwalker said:
Difficult to disagree with that.logical_song said:The view from CNN on 'why Britain and why now'
"Britain is currently weak on the world stage. While it is hard to admit this, virtually every relationship it has is in tatters.
The internal knots of the ruling Conservative Party over the country's future after leaving the European Union have left it more or less incapable of effectively bargaining on one of the most important national issues since the end of World War II."
But we were warned.
By the way, I think May’s response is frankly insufficient. Too cautious by half.
Maybe give a day or two before passing judgement0 -
Denial is not just a river in Egypt.Richard_Tyndall said:
Decent of you to say so. And there are plenty of other strong Remainers on here who have not tried to make any connection either - probably the vast majority of them. Much like Corbyn and the Labour party it is only a few individuals who seek to tarnish their reputations.Torby_Fennel said:I just want to say, as a very enthusiastic Remain voter, that I don't see (or seek to make) any connection at all between Brexit and the Russian incident.
0 -
Occam's razor.Verulamius said:Let us suppose Russia was not behind it. Russia would be wanting to know who did it and offering to help given their past history and knowledge of the nerve agent. There would be back channel discussions. Russia would not be acting as they are now. This shows that Russia are behind the actions.
The only other vaguely credible explanation is that there are parts of the Russian security service that are not under central control with their own agenda. Whether that is better, of course, is open to doubt.0 -
I think people are misunderstanding Corbyn again. Whilst his response does not play well with MPs on either side of the HoC or the media, like a lot of his actions it isn't intended to. Check Twitter and comment feed and you realise there are a lot of people out there who don't trust our own establishment. Remember as well how Farage played the Putin/ Russia card. There is a sizeable audience who will see Corbyn's comments as spot on0
-
The UK sought to make a very big deal of the Litvinenko murder. And the question is not one of what our reaction was it is one of why the Russians felt safe in doing the killing in the first place. A few ignorant Remainer nutters like you are saying that Brexit made this attack more likely. The Litvinenko murder puts the lie to that idiotic proposition.Gardenwalker said:
There is no connection between Brexit and the incident itself. Disingenous Brexiters are creating a straw man.Torby_Fennel said:I just want to say, as a very enthusiastic Remain voter, that I don't see (or seek to make) any connection at all between Brexit and the Russian incident.
There are however, significant geopolitical consequences of Brexit for the U.K., a
For whatever reason, the U.K. did not seek to make a big deal of Litvinenko. Not EU’s fault.RobD said:
Yeah, but then I remember that the same thing happened while we were in the bosom of the EU. Fat lot of good it did then!AlastairMeeks said:
This seems to have produced a flurry of snowflakes in advance of the weekend. It's obvious (and honest Leavers would admit that Brexit has some downsides and this is one of them). But it appears that some Leavers can't handle the truth.logical_song said:The view from CNN on 'why Britain and why now'
"Britain is currently weak on the world stage. While it is hard to admit this, virtually every relationship it has is in tatters.
The internal knots of the ruling Conservative Party over the country's future after leaving the European Union have left it more or less incapable of effectively bargaining on one of the most important national issues since the end of World War II."
0 -
Mario Draghi.Pulpstar said:
Tusk & Verhofstadt; Junker and presently Tajani?.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Pulpstar, aren't there five presidents?
Who is the fifth ?0 -
Mr. Pulpstar, I remember hearing of five presidents. The fifth might just be the rotating member-state one...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_of_the_European_Union0 -
I’m not saying Brexit makes this more likely. And I don’t think I’ve read anyone on here claim as much.Richard_Tyndall said:
The UK sought to make a very big deal of the Litvinenko murder. And the question is not one of what our reaction was it is one of why the Russians felt safe in doing the killing in the first place. A few ignorant Remainer nutters like you are saying that Brexit made this attack more likely. The Litvinenko murder puts the lie to that idiotic proposition.Gardenwalker said:
There is no connection between Brexit and the incident itself. Disingenous Brexiters are creating a straw man.Torby_Fennel said:I just want to say, as a very enthusiastic Remain voter, that I don't see (or seek to make) any connection at all between Brexit and the Russian incident.
There are however, significant geopolitical consequences of Brexit for the U.K., a
For whatever reason, the U.K. did not seek to make a big deal of Litvinenko. Not EU’s fault.RobD said:
Yeah, but then I remember that the same thing happened while we were in the bosom of the EU. Fat lot of good it did then!AlastairMeeks said:
This seems to have produced a flurry of snowflakes in advance of the weekend. It's obvious (and honest Leavers would admit that Brexit has some downsides and this is one of them). But it appears that some Leavers can't handle the truth.logical_song said:The view from CNN on 'why Britain and why now'
"Britain is currently weak on the world stage. While it is hard to admit this, virtually every relationship it has is in tatters.
The internal knots of the ruling Conservative Party over the country's future after leaving the European Union have left it more or less incapable of effectively bargaining on one of the most important national issues since the end of World War II."
As I say, you are disingenous, and often offensive with it.0 -
+1Verulamius said:Let us suppose Russia was not behind it. Russia would be wanting to know who did it and offering to help given their past history and knowledge of the nerve agent. There would be back channel discussions. Russia would not be acting as they are now. This shows that Russia are behind the actions.
0 -
Hi Dr P. Yesterday I yellow-penned the Bentham Line, Settle Junction - Carnforth. Possibly the only stretch of railway named after a philosopher. A very Utilitarian journey.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Tusk is "new Europe", Juncker is "old Europe", as Rumsfeld might have once said.Elliot said:
If the EU had more Donald Tusks and less Jean Claude Junckers, it would be a much better institution.The_Apocalypse said:
0 -
In that case you are a blind as well as stupid. I am offensive to people like you who seek to make political capital out of an event like this because that is in itself an offensive attitude.Gardenwalker said:
I’m not saying Brexit makes this more likely. And I don’t think I’ve read anyone on here claim as much.Richard_Tyndall said:
The UK sought to make a very big deal of the Litvinenko murder. And the question is not one of what our reaction was it is one of why the Russians felt safe in doing the killing in the first place. A few ignorant Remainer nutters like you are saying that Brexit made this attack more likely. The Litvinenko murder puts the lie to that idiotic proposition.Gardenwalker said:
There is no connection between Brexit and the incident itself. Disingenous Brexiters are creating a straw man.Torby_Fennel said:I just want to say, as a very enthusiastic Remain voter, that I don't see (or seek to make) any connection at all between Brexit and the Russian incident.
There are however, significant geopolitical consequences of Brexit for the U.K., a
For whatever reason, the U.K. did not seek to make a big deal of Litvinenko. Not EU’s fault.RobD said:
Yeah, but then I remember that the same thing happened while we were in the bosom of the EU. Fat lot of good it did then!AlastairMeeks said:
This seems to have produced a flurry of snowflakes in advance of the weekend. It's obvious (and honest Leavers would admit that Brexit has some downsides and this is one of them). But it appears that some Leavers can't handle the truth.logical_song said:The view from CNN on 'why Britain and why now'
"Britain is currently weak on the world stage. While it is hard to admit this, virtually every relationship it has is in tatters.
The internal knots of the ruling Conservative Party over the country's future after leaving the European Union have left it more or less incapable of effectively bargaining on one of the most important national issues since the end of World War II."
As I say, you are disingenous, and often offensive with it.
Trying to pretend that is not your intent makes you a liar as well as ignorant.
0 -
Reminds me a bit of Trump in the GOP Carolina debate.DaveW said:I think people are misunderstanding Corbyn again. Whilst his response does not play well with MPs on either side of the HoC or the media, like a lot of his actions it isn't intended to. Check Twitter and comment feed and you realise there are a lot of people out there who don't trust our own establishment. Remember as well how Farage played the Putin/ Russia card. There is a sizeable audience who will see Corbyn's comments as spot on
0 -
Sure. How many of them didn't vote for Labour last June?DaveW said:I think people are misunderstanding Corbyn again. Whilst his response does not play well with MPs on either side of the HoC or the media, like a lot of his actions it isn't intended to. Check Twitter and comment feed and you realise there are a lot of people out there who don't trust our own establishment. Remember as well how Farage played the Putin/ Russia card. There is a sizeable audience who will see Corbyn's comments as spot on
He can't win an election based on the Stop The War coalition.0 -
Blind, stupid, ignorant.Richard_Tyndall said:
In that case you are a blind as well as stupid. I am offensive to people like you who seek to make political capital out of an event like this because that is in itself an offensive attitude.Gardenwalker said:
I’m not saying Brexit makes this more likely. And I don’t think I’ve read anyone on here claim as much.Richard_Tyndall said:
The UK sought to make a very big deal of the Litvinenko murder. And the question is not one of what our reaction was it is one of why the Russians felt safe in doing the killing in the first place. A few ignorant Remainer nutters like you are saying that Brexit made this attack more likely. The Litvinenko murder puts the lie to that idiotic proposition.Gardenwalker said:
There is no connection between Brexit and the incident itself. Disingenous Brexiters are creating a straw man.Torby_Fennel said:I just want to say, as a very enthusiastic Remain voter, that I don't see (or seek to make) any connection at all between Brexit and the Russian incident.
There are however, significant geopolitical consequences of Brexit for the U.K., a
For whatever reason, the U.K. did not seek to make a big deal of Litvinenko. Not EU’s fault.RobD said:
Yeah, but then I remember that the same thing happened while we were in the bosom of the EU. Fat lot of good it did then!AlastairMeeks said:
This seems to have produced a flurry of snowflakes in advance of the weekend. It's obvious (and honest Leavers would admit that Brexit has some downsides and this is one of them). But it appears that some Leavers can't handle the truth.logical_song said:The view from CNN on 'why Britain and why now'
"Britain is currently weak on the world stage. While it is hard to admit this, virtually every relationship it has is in tatters.
The internal knots of the ruling Conservative Party over the country's future after leaving the European Union have left it more or less incapable of effectively bargaining on one of the most important national issues since the end of World War II."
As I say, you are disingenous, and often offensive with it.
Trying to pretend that is not your intent makes you a liar as well as ignorant.
If you could just add a remark about how you’d actually prefer full and absolute freedom of movement, we’d have a full Tyndall flush.0 -
Clarke voted against invading Iraq.tyson said:
And the bombing of Syria....he was called out too.BudG said:
Quite. He has form on matters like this.AlastairMeeks said:
As for Jeremy Corbyn, why is anyone surprised at his response?
I recall he was unsupportive of a former Prime Minister who assured the nation that it was right to declare war on Iraq because it was HIGHLY LIKELY that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction. Not at all surprised he is raising questions about evidence.
Corbyn will never rattle a sabre for political point scoring....and his judgement on foreign policy is a lot better than any Tory I can think of....,0 -
Corbyn having followers who are as deluded and wrong as him comes as no surprise. Twitter feeds mean nothing.DaveW said:I think people are misunderstanding Corbyn again. Whilst his response does not play well with MPs on either side of the HoC or the media, like a lot of his actions it isn't intended to. Check Twitter and comment feed and you realise there are a lot of people out there who don't trust our own establishment. Remember as well how Farage played the Putin/ Russia card. There is a sizeable audience who will see Corbyn's comments as spot on
All he had to do was to stand up today and personally condemn the attempted murders on UK soil. He couldn't do it. He kept saying 'we' - thus putting distance between himself and what he was saying.
He has got this wrong. Repeating lines being used by Russian officials only makes him look more wrong.
There is nothing to misunderstand about what Corbyn and his spokesman have said today. They have shown no respect for our country, no respect for our citizens and no respect for our intelligence/police services.0 -
Easy way for you to try and crawl away from your own comments. You really are shameful.Gardenwalker said:
Blind, stupid, ignorant.Richard_Tyndall said:
In that case you are a blind as well as stupid. I am offensive to people like you who seek to make political capital out of an event like this because that is in itself an offensive attitude.Gardenwalker said:
I’m not saying Brexit makes this more likely. And I don’t think I’ve read anyone on here claim as much.Richard_Tyndall said:
The UK sought to make a very big deal of the Litvinenko murder. And the question is not one of what our reaction was it is one of why the Russians felt safe in doing the killing in the first place. A few ignorant Remainer nutters like you are saying that Brexit made this attack more likely. The Litvinenko murder puts the lie to that idiotic proposition.Gardenwalker said:
There is no connection between Brexit and the incident itself. Disingenous Brexiters are creating a straw man.Torby_Fennel said:I just want to say, as a very enthusiastic Remain voter, that I don't see (or seek to make) any connection at all between Brexit and the Russian incident.
There are however, significant geopolitical consequences of Brexit for the U.K., a
For whatever reason, the U.K. did not seek to make a big deal of Litvinenko. Not EU’s fault.RobD said:
Yeah, but then I remember that the same thing happened while we were in the bosom of the EU. Fat lot of good it did then!AlastairMeeks said:
This seems to have produced a flurry of snowflakes in advance of the weekend. It's obvious (and honest Leavers would admit that Brexit has some downsides and this is one of them). But it appears that some Leavers can't handle the truth.logical_song said:The view from CNN on 'why Britain and why now'
"Britain is currently weak on the world stage. While it is hard to admit this, virtually every relationship it has is in tatters.
The internal knots of the ruling Conservative Party over the country's future after leaving the European Union have left it more or less incapable of effectively bargaining on one of the most important national issues since the end of World War II."
As I say, you are disingenous, and often offensive with it.
Trying to pretend that is not your intent makes you a liar as well as ignorant.
If you could just add a remark about how you’d actually prefer full and absolute freedom of movement, we’d have a full Tyndall flush.0 -
Will any of them come out from behind the anonymity?Scrapheap_as_was said:0 -
Correct.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Pulpstar, I remember hearing of five presidents. The fifth might just be the rotating member-state one...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_of_the_European_Union
But it does Europe no favours to call all of them Presidents.
It’s as if we had a President May, President Bercow, President Carney, President Heywood and President Queen!0 -
Ken Livingstone on Russia Today is claiming May is desperate not to lose seats in Local Elections.
https://twitter.com/JournoStephen/status/9739398219399168010 -
All too predictableCarlottaVance said:0 -
I'd argue that the scale of the fighting in the Seven Years War outside Europe was insufficent to count as a general conflict: it was essentially a European war carried on out of area, rather than an equivalent of the European war. The contrast is with the number of Americans, Chinese, Japanese, Indians and so on who fought in WW2, for example.Richard_Tyndall said:
Why would the Seven Years war not count under your first definition? It was fought on 5 of the 7 continents which is only one less than WW2. It also fulfils your second definition of course.david_herdson said:
Yes. I'd argue that either:TheValiant said:
Am I right in thinking that in the latter case, you argue that WWI was a European civil war, and WWII was therefore WWI?david_herdson said:(This does give me my chance to argue that we've either already had WW3 or we've not yet had WW2).
What about the former?
- A 'world war' really has to be a global conflict, in which case there's only ever been one: 1937-45 (or 1941-45, if you prefer the actual global period).
or
- A 'world war' is one that involves the majority of the global powers fighting to the effective limits of their military and financial capacity (and those limits have to be understood in their historical contexts), even if the area within which the fighting takes place is more localised. On that basis, I'd argue that there've been at least four, with the French Revolutionary / Napoleonic Wars forming one, and the Seven Years War being another, though you can potentially make arguments for others too.0 -
Your comments are not accurate.Richard_Tyndall said:
Easy way for you to try and crawl away from your own comments. You really are shameful.Gardenwalker said:
Blind, stupid, ignorant.Richard_Tyndall said:
In that case you are a blind as well as stupid. I am offensive to people like you who seek to make political capital out of an event like this because that is in itself an offensive attitude.Gardenwalker said:
I’m not saying Brexit makes this more likely. And I don’t think I’ve read anyone on here claim as much.Richard_Tyndall said:Gardenwalker said:
There is no connection between Brexit and the incident itself. Disingenous Brexiters are creating a straw man.Torby_Fennel said:I just want to say, as a very enthusiastic Remain voter, that I don't see (or seek to make) any connection at all between Brexit and the Russian incident.
There are however, significant geopolitical consequences of Brexit for the U.K., a
For whatever reason, the U.K. did not seek to make a big deal of Litvinenko. Not EU’s fault.RobD said:
Yeah, but then I remember that the same thing happened while we were in the bosom of the EU. Fat lot of good it did then!AlastairMeeks said:
This seems to have produced a flurry of snowflakes in advance of the weekend. It's obvious (and honest Leavers would admit that Brexit has some downsides and this is one of them). But it appears that some Leavers can't handle the truth.logical_song said:The view from CNN on 'why Britain and why now'
"Britain is currently weak on the world stage. While it is hard to admit this, virtually every relationship it has isI."
As I say, you are disingenous, and often offensive with it.
Trying to pretend that is not your intent makes you a liar as well as ignorant.
If you could just add a remark about how you’d actually prefer full and absolute freedom of movement, we’d have a full Tyndall flush.
As far as I can tell you’re claiming that I (who am ignorant, stupid etc) think Brexit has led to the Salisbury poisoning. But I’m not, and I don’t think anyone is saying that.
What I am saying is that of course Brexit weakens the Western alliance, specifically the European arm. That’s relevant in respect of Russia policy.
I’m not sure why this is controversial. Indeed this is why Putin and his trolls have supported Brexit (and, inter alia, Scottish independence, Le Pen, Five Star, Trump etc etc etc etc).
Honest leavers would chalk this up as regrettable but perhaps necessary.0 -
0
-
My God. What is he drinking?CarlottaVance said:
What is WRONG with these people?0 -
Reddit might not be Twitter, but it's not far off.
Top comments there are "Surprisingly solid response from Theresa May for now"
"This is a welcomed response from the UK and hopefully all parties will stand against this Russian attack. "
"It's be great if those European leaders also did something like May is doing in solidarity, to show Russia that actions like this have far reaching consequences. "
"Jesus. Putin lobbed a real softball to May. This is her very real chance to erase the narrative of her weakness since the election.
Meanwhile my man Corbyn sounded straight up idiotic. I know he has to be contrarian as an opposition leader but this was definitely the wrong thing to sound off on."0 -
You can't weaken resolve that doesn't exist.Gardenwalker said:
Your comments are not accurate.
As far as I can tell you’re claiming that I (who am ignorant, stupid etc) think Brexit has led to the Salisbury poisoning. But I’m not, and I don’t think anyone is saying that.
What I am saying is that of course Brexit weakens the Western alliance, specifically the European arm. That’s relevant in respect of Russia policy.
I’m not sure why this is controversial. Indeed this is why Putin and his trolls have supported Brexit (and, inter alia, Scottish independence, Le Pen, Five Star, Trump etc etc etc etc).
Honest leavers would chalk this up as regrettable but perhaps necessary.0 -
Corbyn's response to this situation may make EU leaders very thoughtful and quite concerned about doing anything that makes a Corbyn government more likely. If he becomes PM, the EU should not expect British help against Putin in the future.0
-
There is a form of Brexit-ism which suggests that since the EU cannot reform democratically; cannot liberalise when it comes to trade etc - then it is not worth bothering with and we should walk away.MaxPB said:
You can't weaken resolve that doesn't exist.Gardenwalker said:
Your comments are not accurate.
As far as I can tell you’re claiming that I (who am ignorant, stupid etc) think Brexit has led to the Salisbury poisoning. But I’m not, and I don’t think anyone is saying that.
What I am saying is that of course Brexit weakens the Western alliance, specifically the European arm. That’s relevant in respect of Russia policy.
I’m not sure why this is controversial. Indeed this is why Putin and his trolls have supported Brexit (and, inter alia, Scottish independence, Le Pen, Five Star, Trump etc etc etc etc).
Honest leavers would chalk this up as regrettable but perhaps necessary.
This is a species of that argument.
However, the problems is Europe is not going anywhere; the EU exists. We have to deal with it, trade with it, and partner with it - in or out.
Clearly, we have less influence out.
0 -
I suppose I think that is only a matter of the technology available at the time although I take your point. I am just not sure how it can be differentiated.david_herdson said:
I'd argue that the scale of the fighting in the Seven Years War outside Europe was insufficent to count as a general conflict: it was essentially a European war carried on out of area, rather than an equivalent of the European war. The contrast is with the number of Americans, Chinese, Japanese, Indians and so on who fought in WW2, for example.Richard_Tyndall said:
Why would the Seven Years war not count under your first definition? It was fought on 5 of the 7 continents which is only one less than WW2. It also fulfils your second definition of course.david_herdson said:
Yes. I'd argue that either:TheValiant said:
Am I right in thinking that in the latter case, you argue that WWI was a European civil war, and WWII was therefore WWI?david_herdson said:(This does give me my chance to argue that we've either already had WW3 or we've not yet had WW2).
What about the former?
- A 'world war' really has to be a global conflict, in which case there's only ever been one: 1937-45 (or 1941-45, if you prefer the actual global period).
or
- A 'world war' is one that involves the majority of the global powers fighting to the effective limits of their military and financial capacity (and those limits have to be understood in their historical contexts), even if the area within which the fighting takes place is more localised. On that basis, I'd argue that there've been at least four, with the French Revolutionary / Napoleonic Wars forming one, and the Seven Years War being another, though you can potentially make arguments for others too.0 -
They oppose the West more than they oppose Russia murdering people in the UK. It is that simple.Gardenwalker said:0 -
There were plenty of Indians fighting.david_herdson said:
I'd argue that the scale of the fighting in the Seven Years War outside Europe was insufficent to count as a general conflict: it was essentially a European war carried on out of area, rather than an equivalent of the European war. The contrast is with the number of Americans, Chinese, Japanese, Indians and so on who fought in WW2, for example.Richard_Tyndall said:
Why would the Seven Years war not count under your first definition? It was fought on 5 of the 7 continents which is only one less than WW2. It also fulfils your second definition of course.david_herdson said:
Yes. I'd argue that either:TheValiant said:
Am I right in thinking that in the latter case, you argue that WWI was a European civil war, and WWII was therefore WWI?david_herdson said:(This does give me my chance to argue that we've either already had WW3 or we've not yet had WW2).
What about the former?
- A 'world war' really has to be a global conflict, in which case there's only ever been one: 1937-45 (or 1941-45, if you prefer the actual global period).
or
- A 'world war' is one that involves the majority of the global powers fighting to the effective limits of their military and financial capacity (and those limits have to be understood in their historical contexts), even if the area within which the fighting takes place is more localised. On that basis, I'd argue that there've been at least four, with the French Revolutionary / Napoleonic Wars forming one, and the Seven Years War being another, though you can potentially make arguments for others too.0 -
Looking very ill is Ken.dr_spyn said:Ken Livingstone on Russia Today is claiming May is desperate not to lose seats in Local Elections.
https://twitter.com/JournoStephen/status/973939821939916801
I hope he hasn't been dining in Salisbury recently.....0 -
Plenty of people on social media are Russian trolls.david_herdson said:
Sure. How many of them didn't vote for Labour last June?DaveW said:I think people are misunderstanding Corbyn again. Whilst his response does not play well with MPs on either side of the HoC or the media, like a lot of his actions it isn't intended to. Check Twitter and comment feed and you realise there are a lot of people out there who don't trust our own establishment. Remember as well how Farage played the Putin/ Russia card. There is a sizeable audience who will see Corbyn's comments as spot on
He can't win an election based on the Stop The War coalition.0 -
Even for Ken that's a ludicrous connection he is making.oxfordsimon said:All too predictable
0 -
I know. But the level of cognitive dissonance must be overwhelming. It’s pathological.Elliot said:
They oppose the West more than they oppose Russia murdering people in the UK. It is that simple.Gardenwalker said:0 -
Investigation now looking in Gillingham for contamination0
-
F1: two chaps potentially being lined up as Charlie Whiting's successor as race director have left the FIA in recent months. I'd forgotten about the first chap, but his presence may well help Renault rather a lot:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/434061800 -
And that is where you are wrong. If you are saying that this is relevant to Russian policy in the context of this poisoning - and that is clearly what is being said in the comments you were initially defending (Why here and why now) then you are saying that Brexit made this event more likely. That is the basic logical conclusion of your claim - and that of Logical Song and Alastair Meeks.Gardenwalker said:
Your comments are not accurate.
As far as I can tell you’re claiming that I (who am ignorant, stupid etc) think Brexit has led to the Salisbury poisoning. But I’m not, and I don’t think anyone is saying that.
What I am saying is that of course Brexit weakens the Western alliance, specifically the European arm. That’s relevant in respect of Russia policy.
I’m not sure why this is controversial. Indeed this is why Putin and his trolls have supported Brexit (and, inter alia, Scottish independence, Le Pen, Five Star, Trump etc etc etc etc).
Honest leavers would chalk this up as regrettable but perhaps necessary.
But the rejoinder to that is that if that is the case then why was a similar attack launched by Russia against Litvinenko long before Brexit ever became an issue? The patterns are basically identical and vary only in their choice of banned substance.
Like I said, your response is thoroughly dishonest. You insinuate a connection and then deny such a claim when challenged.0 -
I agree with RichardRichard_Nabavi said:
No, what will happen is that Corbyn will issue a 'clarification', the sane Labour MPs will go back to sulking quietly on the back-benches, and Corbyn's supporters will accuse anyone who quotes what he said of smearing him.Slackbladder said:Anyone see this as a possible last hurrah of the moderates to try to save the labour party?
0 -
We had no influence in. Why should we have less out?Gardenwalker said:
There is a form of Brexit-ism which suggests that since the EU cannot reform democratically; cannot liberalise when it comes to trade etc - then it is not worth bothering with and we should walk away.MaxPB said:
You can't weaken resolve that doesn't exist.Gardenwalker said:
Your comments are not accurate.
As far as I can tell you’re claiming that I (who am ignorant, stupid etc) think Brexit has led to the Salisbury poisoning. But I’m not, and I don’t think anyone is saying that.
What I am saying is that of course Brexit weakens the Western alliance, specifically the European arm. That’s relevant in respect of Russia policy.
I’m not sure why this is controversial. Indeed this is why Putin and his trolls have supported Brexit (and, inter alia, Scottish independence, Le Pen, Five Star, Trump etc etc etc etc).
Honest leavers would chalk this up as regrettable but perhaps necessary.
This is a species of that argument.
However, the problems is Europe is not going anywhere; the EU exists. We have to deal with it, trade with it, and partner with it - in or out.
Clearly, we have less influence out.0 -
Mr. Walker, there was something written/linked to here some months ago about Communism under Stalin, and the show trials. Some people willingly agreed to plead guilty to crimes of which they were innocent, effectively because they were willing to take a hit for the team if it meant promoting the cause of Communism.
This smells like a similar brand of ideological insanity.0 -
We've gone from zero influence inside to zero influence outside.Gardenwalker said:
There is a form of Brexit-ism which suggests that since the EU cannot reform democratically; cannot liberalise when it comes to trade etc - then it is not worth bothering with and we should walk away.MaxPB said:
You can't weaken resolve that doesn't exist.Gardenwalker said:
Your comments are not accurate.
As far as I can tell you’re claiming that I (who am ignorant, stupid etc) think Brexit has led to the Salisbury poisoning. But I’m not, and I don’t think anyone is saying that.
What I am saying is that of course Brexit weakens the Western alliance, specifically the European arm. That’s relevant in respect of Russia policy.
I’m not sure why this is controversial. Indeed this is why Putin and his trolls have supported Brexit (and, inter alia, Scottish independence, Le Pen, Five Star, Trump etc etc etc etc).
Honest leavers would chalk this up as regrettable but perhaps necessary.
This is a species of that argument.
However, the problems is Europe is not going anywhere; the EU exists. We have to deal with it, trade with it, and partner with it - in or out.
Clearly, we have less influence out.0 -
It depends on just how far this goes over the coming weeks and even months and how Corbyn reacts. We may not be far away from a tipping point where the 170 odd labour mps leave Corbyn to his own devicesHertsmere_Pubgoer said:
I agree with RichardRichard_Nabavi said:
No, what will happen is that Corbyn will issue a 'clarification', the sane Labour MPs will go back to sulking quietly on the back-benches, and Corbyn's supporters will accuse anyone who quotes what he said of smearing him.Slackbladder said:Anyone see this as a possible last hurrah of the moderates to try to save the labour party?
0 -
As with everything else over the last few years, I will be proven correct and the buffoons of the Westminster bubble and their wannabes here will be proven idiotic once again.
Just because a few recalcitrant members of the PLP - who seem practically sexually excited by war, any war, and will largely be deselected by next election - are sucking up to May’s ludicrous and hysterical grandstanding, doesn’t mean that there aren’t a large sensible portion of the population who are either not interested or see this as the deluded and discredited establishment getting up to their usual B&M Bargains-version-of-1984 hysterical antics.0 -
Nope you’re flat out wrong, as from what I read from Mr Meeks and Song, you’re wrong about them too.Richard_Tyndall said:
And that is where you are wrong. If you are saying that this is relevant to Russian policy in the context of this poisoning - and that is clearly what is being said in the comments you were initially defending (Why here and why now) then you are saying that Brexit made this event more likely. That is the basic logical conclusion of your claim - and that of Logical Song and Alastair Meeks.Gardenwalker said:
Your comments are not accurate.
As far as I can tell you’re claiming that I (who am ignorant, stupid etc) think Brexit has led to the Salisbury poisoning. But I’m not, and I don’t think anyone is saying that.
What I am saying is that of course Brexit weakens the Western alliance, specifically the European arm. That’s relevant in respect of Russia policy.
I’m not sure why this is controversial. Indeed this is why Putin and his trolls have supported Brexit (and, inter alia, Scottish independence, Le Pen, Five Star, Trump etc etc etc etc).
Honest leavers would chalk this up as regrettable but perhaps necessary.
But the rejoinder to that is that if that is the case then why was a similar attack launched by Russia against Litvinenko long before Brexit ever became an issue? The patterns are basically identical and vary only in their choice of banned substance.
Like I said, your response is thoroughly dishonest. You insinuate a connection and then deny such a claim when challenged.0 -
On the West of England LineBig_G_NorthWales said:Investigation now looking in Gillingham for contamination
0 -
If I were stuck in a Moscow troll-farm, I'd be hitting the vodka too......JWisemann said:As with everything else over the last few years, I will be proven correct and the buffoons of the Westminster bubble and their wannabes here will be proven idiotic once again.
Just because a few recalcitrant members of the PLP - who seem practically sexually excited by war, any war, and will largely be deselected by next election - are sucking up to May’s ludicrous and hysterical grandstanding, doesn’t mean that there aren’t a large sensible portion of the population who are either not interested or see this as the deluded and discredited establishment getting up to their usual B&M Bargains-version-of-1984 hysterical antics.0 -
See you are still talking to yourselfJWisemann said:As with everything else over the last few years, I will be proven correct and the buffoons of the Westminster bubble and their wannabes here will be proven idiotic once again.
Just because a few recalcitrant members of the PLP - who seem practically sexually excited by war, any war, and will largely be deselected by next election - are sucking up to May’s ludicrous and hysterical grandstanding, doesn’t mean that there aren’t a large sensible portion of the population who are either not interested or see this as the deluded and discredited establishment getting up to their usual B&M Bargains-version-of-1984 hysterical antics.
Sky praising TM statesmanship and contrasting it with Corbyn's misjudged comments.
Bad day for Corbyn today, good day for the Country0 -
When it comes down to it, Brexitism is one long sulk. “We had no influence in.” I mean, really?Richard_Tyndall said:
We had no influence in. Why should we have less out?Gardenwalker said:
There is a form of Brexit-ism which suggests that since the EU cannot reform democratically; cannot liberalise when it comes to trade etc - then it is not worth bothering with and we should walk away.MaxPB said:
You can't weaken resolve that doesn't exist.Gardenwalker said:
Your comments are not accurate.
As far as I can tell you’re claiming that I (who am ignorant, stupid etc) think Brexit has led to the Salisbury poisoning. But I’m not, and I don’t think anyone is saying that.
What I am saying is that of course Brexit weakens the Western alliance, specifically the European arm. That’s relevant in respect of Russia policy.
I’m not sure why this is controversial. Indeed this is why Putin and his trolls have supported Brexit (and, inter alia, Scottish independence, Le Pen, Five Star, Trump etc etc etc etc).
Honest leavers would chalk this up as regrettable but perhaps necessary.
This is a species of that argument.
However, the problems is Europe is not going anywhere; the EU exists. We have to deal with it, trade with it, and partner with it - in or out.
Clearly, we have less influence out.
The trouble is it can’t be argued with, it’s a faith-based ideology.0 -
"Brexit weakens the Western alliance, specifically the European arm." Tellingly careful wording, because if there is a Western alliance, it's NATO, but you daren't call it that because doing so makes it all too obvious how wrong the claim is. What weakens NATO, perhaps fatally, is Donald Trump; the EU doesn't come in to it. Not saying it won't in 20 years time if NATO leaves a gap that needs filling, but there is nothing about the EU at present that suggests that it would want to be or be capable of being a proper military superpower.Gardenwalker said:
Your comments are not accurate.
As far as I can tell you’re claiming that I (who am ignorant, stupid etc) think Brexit has led to the Salisbury poisoning. But I’m not, and I don’t think anyone is saying that.
What I am saying is that of course Brexit weakens the Western alliance, specifically the European arm. That’s relevant in respect of Russia policy.
I’m not sure why this is controversial. Indeed this is why Putin and his trolls have supported Brexit (and, inter alia, Scottish independence, Le Pen, Five Star, Trump etc etc etc etc).
Honest leavers would chalk this up as regrettable but perhaps necessary.0 -
I don't think there will be many deselections, but I would be getting a few sleepless nights if I were the likes of John Woodcock, Chris Leslie or Jess Phillips.Pulpstar said:
Do you actually think this will happen ?JWisemann said:a few recalcitrant members of the PLP - who seem practically sexually excited by war, any war, and will largely be deselected by next election
I don't.0 -
It was 1982 childish willy-waving earlier. Make your mind up.JWisemann said:As with everything else over the last few years, I will be proven correct and the buffoons of the Westminster bubble and their wannabes here will be proven idiotic once again.
Just because a few recalcitrant members of the PLP - who seem practically sexually excited by war, any war, and will largely be deselected by next election - are sucking up to May’s ludicrous and hysterical grandstanding, doesn’t mean that there aren’t a large sensible portion of the population who are either not interested or see this as the deluded and discredited establishment getting up to their usual B&M Bargains-version-of-1984 hysterical antics.0 -
I wish mate, having to rip fools a new one on my own dime unfortunately.MarqueeMark said:
If I were stuck in a Moscow troll-farm, I'd be hitting the vodka too......JWisemann said:As with everything else over the last few years, I will be proven correct and the buffoons of the Westminster bubble and their wannabes here will be proven idiotic once again.
Just because a few recalcitrant members of the PLP - who seem practically sexually excited by war, any war, and will largely be deselected by next election - are sucking up to May’s ludicrous and hysterical grandstanding, doesn’t mean that there aren’t a large sensible portion of the population who are either not interested or see this as the deluded and discredited establishment getting up to their usual B&M Bargains-version-of-1984 hysterical antics.0 -
Skys beth rigby basically just said in corbyns response he used all of russia's attack likes against the uk. He hasnt been meeting eastern European diplomats again has he?0
-
@marqueeMark Do you think Adrian Harper has returned?MarqueeMark said:
If I were stuck in a Moscow troll-farm, I'd be hitting the vodka too......JWisemann said:As with everything else over the last few years, I will be proven correct and the buffoons of the Westminster bubble and their wannabes here will be proven idiotic once again.
Just because a few recalcitrant members of the PLP - who seem practically sexually excited by war, any war, and will largely be deselected by next election - are sucking up to May’s ludicrous and hysterical grandstanding, doesn’t mean that there aren’t a large sensible portion of the population who are either not interested or see this as the deluded and discredited establishment getting up to their usual B&M Bargains-version-of-1984 hysterical antics.0 -
Expelling diplomats is "ludicrous and hysterical grandstanding"?JWisemann said:As with everything else over the last few years, I will be proven correct and the buffoons of the Westminster bubble and their wannabes here will be proven idiotic once again.
Just because a few recalcitrant members of the PLP - who seem practically sexually excited by war, any war, and will largely be deselected by next election - are sucking up to May’s ludicrous and hysterical grandstanding, doesn’t mean that there aren’t a large sensible portion of the population who are either not interested or see this as the deluded and discredited establishment getting up to their usual B&M Bargains-version-of-1984 hysterical antics.0 -
When Lobby hacks pressed Milne as to if Corbyn believed Russia was responsible for the attack, Milne said the PM continued to leave open the possibility that Russia had lost control of the nerve agent. Milne prefers to doubt MI6 and give the benefit of the doubt to the FSB….
And to think these people could be in charge of the country...Trump and corbyn different cheeks of the same arse.0 -
It is when you haven't seemingly got any concrete proof that the Russian government has done anything yet, yes.RobD said:
Expelling diplomats is "ludicrous and hysterical grandstanding"?JWisemann said:As with everything else over the last few years, I will be proven correct and the buffoons of the Westminster bubble and their wannabes here will be proven idiotic once again.
Just because a few recalcitrant members of the PLP - who seem practically sexually excited by war, any war, and will largely be deselected by next election - are sucking up to May’s ludicrous and hysterical grandstanding, doesn’t mean that there aren’t a large sensible portion of the population who are either not interested or see this as the deluded and discredited establishment getting up to their usual B&M Bargains-version-of-1984 hysterical antics.0 -
Comrade Livingstone shilling for Putin.... https://twitter.com/journostephen/status/973940719382597634?s=210
-
-
I like that line of thought a great deal. The only alternative I can come up with is that they are behaving like AQ or IS, by claiming responsibility for a terrible act even if they didn't do it. Just to look scarier or more macho and 'appeal to the base'.Verulamius said:Let us suppose Russia was not behind it. Russia would be wanting to know who did it and offering to help given their past history and knowledge of the nerve agent. There would be back channel discussions. Russia would not be acting as they are now. This shows that Russia are behind the actions.
No evidence of that frame of mind in Putin's past though... oh.0 -
Hello Jezzah! All well at the allotment?JWisemann said:As with everything else over the last few years, I will be proven correct and the buffoons of the Westminster bubble and their wannabes here will be proven idiotic once again.
Just because a few recalcitrant members of the PLP - who seem practically sexually excited by war, any war, and will largely be deselected by next election - are sucking up to May’s ludicrous and hysterical grandstanding, doesn’t mean that there aren’t a large sensible portion of the population who are either not interested or see this as the deluded and discredited establishment getting up to their usual B&M Bargains-version-of-1984 hysterical antics.0