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Comments
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Where will it all end!FF43 said:I was ill for a few days this week, so staggered out of the house to get some food yesterday. Managed find one Sainsbury's store open, looking like a supermarket in Cuba after the fall of the Berlin Wall. I bought the last packet of apples and a cheesecake. No vegetables, meat, milk or bread. I guess it will be a couple of days before the stores are restocked, so I will need to bake my own bread and do without milk for a while.
Next up the Hot Cross Bun Crisis of 2018:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5665845/easter-2018-hot-cross-buns-price-soar-dried-fruit-shortage/
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I'm guessing than rather the line being breached as it was in 2014, stuff has fallen (again) from the cliffs above. That's as much a problem for them as the sea itself.MarqueeMark said:Sod it, not again!
"Flooding and Debris is blocking the rail line at Dawlish, Network Rail has said.
All Great Western Railway and CrossCountry services have been suspended due to "significant damage".
Network Rail added that there will be a flood assessment at 10:00 but it is unlikely any trains will be running before lunch "at the least"."0 -
That’s horrifying.RoyalBlue said:This is far more disturbing than any flavour of Brexit:
http://app.ft.com/mcdonnell?sectionid=home
We actually have a shadow chancellor who says he won’t take money from ‘bourgeois organisations’.
Corbyn and (especially) McDonnell in power will be an absolute catastrophe for this country.
Meanwhile, and seemingly un-noticed in all the Brexit wars, Liz Truss is talking about new enterprise zones, free schools, business deregulation and easing of plannning. Good speech.
https://capx.co/blitzing-the-blob/0 -
Dawlish Station is one of the great settings for a station - up there with Grange, Shrewsbury and Morfa Mawddach. I was there last week for half an hour waiting for a train and it was just so beautiful.MarqueeMark said:Sod it, not again!
"Flooding and Debris is blocking the rail line at Dawlish, Network Rail has said.
All Great Western Railway and CrossCountry services have been suspended due to "significant damage".
Network Rail added that there will be a flood assessment at 10:00 but it is unlikely any trains will be running before lunch "at the least"."
But I did think at the time how exposed it is and how very unsurprising weather damage to that line is. Closing the back way via Tavistock was a big error.0 -
Actually, I know Hartlepool a bit and quite like the place. But I voted Remain, so I must have been dreaming and was actually in Islington. The guacamole confused me.FF43 said:
I thought Bedford was ALL about Brexit? It gets lumped in with Hartlepool for some reason.JosiasJessop said:
We can talk about the merits of Bedford instead.MikeSmithson said:I was thinking overnight that maybe we ought have Brexit-free days on PB when we find something else to talk about with anybody's edging in to leave or remain territory finding that their comments get deleted
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Cameron and Osborne's hubris are responsible for this Brexit clusterfuck.If Cameron had taken this at all seriously he would have secured an emergency brake on EU immigration for a year and we wouldn't have to live through what Sir John Major rightly called this an act of "national self harm".
It looks like more and more we are heading for "no deal" which is the worst of all possible worlds.The nasty English nats who control the Tory party don't care about the break-up of the UK either.0 -
Canvassing is really about identifying supporters and potential supporters to knock them up on polling day and leaflet in the final week, provide lifts if needed and if very pro get to display a poster.MarqueeMark said:
In this case, those who heard "citizens of nowhere" and took offence were those looking to take offence. Best to ignore them. When you are out canvassing, and you get someone who is seeking to engage in a time-wasting argument, you are advised to make your excuses and leave, whilst marking them as "Against". Move on to someone whose views you might change.Essexit said:
The longevity of the 'had enough of experts' meme suggests that trying to set these things straight is futile. People will hear what they want to, edit out the bits that don't fit their narrative, then repeat as fact ad nauseam.Nigelb said:
Which she has entirely failed to make clear subsequently.Sandpit said:
That comment referred specifically to multinational companies such as Google and Facebook, who have extensive business in the UK yet use aggressive tax avoidance to contribute almost nothing.Jonathan said:
Maybe she will apologise. She really should. The citizens of nowhere comment was one of the most damaging .Scott_P said:
Lots of hardcore Remainers are determined to think she was talking about them. She wasn’t.
This is a meme that has been allowed to grow; a less maladroit politician would have dealt with the matter months ago.
You almost never change anybody's mind canvassing and yes political arguments on the doorstep with antis waste valuable time, so once you have identified a supporter of another party you tend not to bother them again unless it looks like you might get a landslide0 -
Sorry to hear that, Mr. Jessop.
Mr. Smithson, well, if you want someone to ramble about F1 as a pleasant distraction from eurowoe...0 -
Or more particularly had Blair imposed transition controls on free movement from the new accession countries in 2004 as he was able to we would not have needed an emergency break eithervolcanopete said:Cameron and Osborne's hubris are responsible for this Brexit clusterfuck.If Cameron had taken this at all seriously he would have secured an emergency brake on EU immigration for a year and we wouldn't have to live through what Sir John Major rightly called this an act of "national self harm".
It looks like more and more we are heading for "no deal" which is the worst of all possible worlds.The nasty English nats who control the Tory party don't care about the break-up of the UK either.0 -
Pinning the cliffs is going to require some very large sums. But it does seem that today's problem is from being pounded by the waves - a storm coinciding with a very high Spring tide.JosiasJessop said:
I'm guessing than rather the line being breached as it was in 2014, stuff has fallen (again) from the cliffs above. That's as much a problem for them as the sea itself.MarqueeMark said:Sod it, not again!
"Flooding and Debris is blocking the rail line at Dawlish, Network Rail has said.
All Great Western Railway and CrossCountry services have been suspended due to "significant damage".
Network Rail added that there will be a flood assessment at 10:00 but it is unlikely any trains will be running before lunch "at the least"."0 -
If Labour or the LDs win next time on a manifesto commitment of a second referendum as the Tories did in 2015 promising the first referendum then fair enoughEl_Capitano said:
“Next time”? I am delighted by your conversion to the cause of a second referendum.HYUFD said:
Do you think Corbyn will provide a government that both Tory and Labour voters can live with if he wins a majority, even a very narrow one? Of course not, democracy means the majority wins that does not mean the minority cannot try for a majority next time or another goEl_Capitano said:
Even as a Remain voter, I do agree that the slur was unintentional.Sandpit said:
That comment referred specifically to multinational companies such as Google and Facebook, who have extensive business in the UK yet use aggressive tax avoidance to contribute almost nothing.Jonathan said:
Maybe she will apologise. She really should. The citizens of nowhere comment was one of the most damaging .Scott_P said:
Lots of hardcore Remainers are determined to think she was talking about them. She wasn’t.
The reason is that the alternative is unthinkable. “Citizen of nowhere” - or “heimatlos” - was a slur used by fascists in the 1920s and 30s to justify racist and eugenicist policies. “Pure Germans” had a home, whereas the “heimatlos” had a trans-national loyalty that (in this reading) was actively against Germany’s interests. Thus the heimatlos must be subjugated or, eventually, eliminated. It’s pretty obvious who the slur referred to. Philipp Blom’s ‘Fracture’ is very good on this (and a superb book in general).
May should have had advisors who knew this context and excised the phrase. Evidently she didn’t. So I believe it’s not evidence of malice, more of the inept tin-earedness that has characterised her tenure.
The time for a message of reconciliation was the first day of her premiership. That was her opportunity to say: the country is split 50/50; we need a solution that both Remain and Leave voters can live with. She chose not to, and instead to indulge the Leave ultras for months. It’s too late now to go back on that. The country is divided and her speech will be scorned by both camps.
Mrs May evidently believes in holding elections every two years, so by your analogy, we must be due that second referendum about now.0 -
My inner Grammar Nazi broke into the Horst Wessel song at that post...HYUFD said:
Or more particularly had Blair imposed transition controls on free movement from the new accession countries in 2094 as he was able to we would not have needed an emergency break eithervolcanopete said:Cameron and Osborne's hubris are responsible for this Brexit clusterfuck.If Cameron had taken this at all seriously he would have secured an emergency brake on EU immigration for a year and we wouldn't have to live through what Sir John Major rightly called this an act of "national self harm".
It looks like more and more we are heading for "no deal" which is the worst of all possible worlds.The nasty English nats who control the Tory party don't care about the break-up of the UK either.0 -
And to add to the smuttiness....I currently have tits all over my fat balls.....0
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After the last time the Dawlish line nearly ended up in the sea, wasn’t there a plan underfoot to reinstate and upgrade the old line that was closed through Tavistock?ydoethur said:
Dawlish Station is one of the great settings for a station - up there with Grange, Shrewsbury and Morfa Mawddach. I was there last week for half an hour waiting for a train and it was just so beautiful.MarqueeMark said:Sod it, not again!
"Flooding and Debris is blocking the rail line at Dawlish, Network Rail has said.
All Great Western Railway and CrossCountry services have been suspended due to "significant damage".
Network Rail added that there will be a flood assessment at 10:00 but it is unlikely any trains will be running before lunch "at the least"."
But I did think at the time how exposed it is and how very unsurprising weather damage to that line is. Closing the back way via Tavistock was a big error.0 -
Mr. Mark, best be careful, or you'll end up with a thrush problem.0
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It's quite disturbing that either of you should think governing ought to bear any relation to running an election campaign.HYUFD said:
Canvassing is really about identifying supporters and potential supporters to knock them up on polling day and leaflet in the final week, provide lifts if needed and if very pro get to display a poster.MarqueeMark said:
In this case, those who heard "citizens of nowhere" and took offence were those looking to take offence. Best to ignore them. When you are out canvassing, and you get someone who is seeking to engage in a time-wasting argument, you are advised to make your excuses and leave, whilst marking them as "Against". Move on to someone whose views you might change.Essexit said:
The longevity of the 'had enough of experts' meme suggests that trying to set these things straight is futile. People will hear what they want to, edit out the bits that don't fit their narrative, then repeat as fact ad nauseam.Nigelb said:
Which she has entirely failed to make clear subsequently.Sandpit said:
That comment referred specifically to multinational companies such as Google and Facebook, who have extensive business in the UK yet use aggressive tax avoidance to contribute almost nothing.Jonathan said:
Maybe she will apologise. She really should. The citizens of nowhere comment was one of the most damaging .Scott_P said:
Lots of hardcore Remainers are determined to think she was talking about them. She wasn’t.
This is a meme that has been allowed to grow; a less maladroit politician would have dealt with the matter months ago.
You almost never change anybody's mind canvassing and yes political arguments on the doorstep with antis waste valuable time, so once you have identified a supporter of another party you tend not to bother them again unless it looks like you might get a landslide0 -
Add Durham to the list of spectacular views from a station.....ydoethur said:
Dawlish Station is one of the great settings for a station - up there with Grange, Shrewsbury and Morfa Mawddach. I was there last week for half an hour waiting for a train and it was just so beautiful.MarqueeMark said:Sod it, not again!
"Flooding and Debris is blocking the rail line at Dawlish, Network Rail has said.
All Great Western Railway and CrossCountry services have been suspended due to "significant damage".
Network Rail added that there will be a flood assessment at 10:00 but it is unlikely any trains will be running before lunch "at the least"."
But I did think at the time how exposed it is and how very unsurprising weather damage to that line is. Closing the back way via Tavistock was a big error.0 -
Spookily happens as plans to reinstate Okehampton-Exeter trains firm up.MarqueeMark said:
Pinning the cliffs is going to require some very large sums. But it does seem that today's problem is from being pounded by the waves - a storm coinciding with a very high Spring tide.JosiasJessop said:
I'm guessing than rather the line being breached as it was in 2014, stuff has fallen (again) from the cliffs above. That's as much a problem for them as the sea itself.MarqueeMark said:Sod it, not again!
"Flooding and Debris is blocking the rail line at Dawlish, Network Rail has said.
All Great Western Railway and CrossCountry services have been suspended due to "significant damage".
Network Rail added that there will be a flood assessment at 10:00 but it is unlikely any trains will be running before lunch "at the least"."
tps://www.devonlive.com/news/devon-news/daily-okehampton-exeter-trains-promised-1141277
(You need to restore ht to the start of that link, I've buggered it up because it autoplays video with sound.)0 -
Fake News! 2 packs of 4 for £1 at Tesco.Foxy said:
Where will it all end!FF43 said:I was ill for a few days this week, so staggered out of the house to get some food yesterday. Managed find one Sainsbury's store open, looking like a supermarket in Cuba after the fall of the Berlin Wall. I bought the last packet of apples and a cheesecake. No vegetables, meat, milk or bread. I guess it will be a couple of days before the stores are restocked, so I will need to bake my own bread and do without milk for a while.
Next up the Hot Cross Bun Crisis of 2018:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5665845/easter-2018-hot-cross-buns-price-soar-dried-fruit-shortage/0 -
Translation - we remainers can insult leavers all we want - suck it up.AlastairMeeks said:
If only your sensitivity about language extended to the nonstop barrage of abuse that comes out of the mouths of your unhinged fellow travellers.MarqueeMark said:
When you have had to deal with a family member slitting their wrists, you tend to object to casual and hyperbolic use of "suicide".AlastairMeeks said:
What do you find offensive in that tweet?MarqueeMark said:
Nice. Scott_P retweeting someone being offensive.Scott_P said:
The only thing Remainers will accept as a "compromise" on Brexit is for Brexit not to happen. There is no common ground to be had with such people.
I realise this may be hard to compute, but there are plenty of people who see Brexit as an unmitigated national catastrophe. They are entitled to express those views and they are not going to choose gentle metaphors.0 -
China’s Belt and Road strategy has the potential to reshape the way the world works for the long term in a way that makes Brexit look pretty small beer. At the very moment the US is dis-engaging with world economic structures China is actively picking up the slack with a very different model of investment driven influence extension. Heard a Pakistani politician comparing the approach to the rise of the British Empire via the machinery of economics, the East India company etc.JosiasJessop said:
China's descent down to one-person rule is more important, IMO. Trump's tariffs won't lead to war, and Putin appears to be rather over-selling his missiles' capabilities.Pulpstar said:Everyone on this board is being a touch parochial...
Trump's tarriffs and Putin's missiles are larger issues than Brexit geopolitically !
But Xi Jinping's rise to power unprecedented since Mao's time comes at a point where China is increasingly flexing its economic muscles.
Good ‘Briefing Room’ show on It on R40 -
Mushy peas.FF43 said:
Actually, I know Hartlepool a bit and quite like the place. But I voted Remain, so I must have been dreaming and was actually in Islington. The guacamole confused me.FF43 said:
I thought Bedford was ALL about Brexit? It gets lumped in with Hartlepool for some reason.JosiasJessop said:
We can talk about the merits of Bedford instead.MikeSmithson said:I was thinking overnight that maybe we ought have Brexit-free days on PB when we find something else to talk about with anybody's edging in to leave or remain territory finding that their comments get deleted
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What has Labour to say about Putin and his willy waving?Jonathan said:
The opportunity cost of Brexit is one of the least talked about aspects. Potentially vast. The Putin stuff was worrying.Pulpstar said:Everyone on this board is being a touch parochial...
Trump's tarriffs and Putin's missiles are larger issues than Brexit geopolitically !
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Actually this bothers me more than "citizens of nowhere" suggestions. Because it's wrong on the facts, widely believed and causally repeated. We can make much valid criticism of the EU, but actively working against democracy isn't one of them.CarlottaVance said:
And still a democracy. Something of a blind spot with the EU.ydoethur said:
Britain will still be European. Just not part of the EU. That is something different although there is sometimes conflation of the two.Scott_P said:Sadly, test four
4. Consistent with open outward-looking European democracy
is directly contradicted by test one
1. Respect the referendum
which was vote for a more closed, inward-looking anti-European Brexitocracy
Just as Canada is an American country, but is not part of the United States, sometimes wrongly called 'America'.
Thinking back to Major:
What he did: 3 line whip, no referendum.
What he advocates: free vote, second referendum.0 -
Are'nt you rather (white) feather bedding the situation ....harryfaversham said:O/T re UK/Irish border. It's clear that there needs to be some seriously "creative" thinking on this and I had a mad idea which might not work for all sorts of technical and/or practical reasons but it seems that too many people are focussed on the border as being a totally set "thing".....
Would it be possible to put in effect a situation where, for example, a Free Trade Zone is created one mile either side of the border so that it is up to the individual or company to act before leaving that zone to declare anything that needs declaring.
What it does allow by way of a fudge is that it's up to either side how hard they enforce this, removes the need for obvious and physical border posts which psychologically keeps those who object appeased, it allows those whose jobs and lives depend on the close business across the border to carry on as before, could open up opportunities for manufacturers or other industries to set up new businesses in that free trade zone where they need UK or EU components to be part of their product to do so with less red tape and could also allow entrepreneurs to set up businesses in that free trade zone to handle, log and report declarations to the customs authorities on either side on behalf of the state thus removing the involvement of the state and its antagonism to certain parties?
Could be completely unworkable on WTO grounds etc but I wish people would batter away with more wild theories rather than just accept that there is only a certain way it can be solved which will not work for one side or another.
Having lived in Geneva for six years basically on the swiss French border I loved that there was effectively no border in main parts but manned crossings for those who used main routes and where declarations could be made but appreciate the relationship between Switzerland and France is different from a non-EU UK and the EU.....
And welcome.0 -
If you are so easily disturbed, then it is no surprise you are having a fit of the vapours about the challenges of Brexit.....Nigelb said:
It's quite disturbing that either of you should think governing ought to bear any relation to running an election campaign.HYUFD said:
Canvassing is really about identifying supporters and potential supporters to knock them up on polling day and leaflet in the final week, provide lifts if needed and if very pro get to display a poster.MarqueeMark said:
In this case, those who heard "citizens of nowhere" and took offence were those looking to take offence. Best to ignore them. When you are out canvassing, and you get someone who is seeking to engage in a time-wasting argument, you are advised to make your excuses and leave, whilst marking them as "Against". Move on to someone whose views you might change.Essexit said:
The longevity of the 'had enough of experts' meme suggests that trying to set these things straight is futile. People will hear what they want to, edit out the bits that don't fit their narrative, then repeat as fact ad nauseam.Nigelb said:
Which she has entirely failed to make clear subsequently.Sandpit said:
That comment referred specifically to multinational companies such as Google and Facebook, who have extensive business in the UK yet use aggressive tax avoidance to contribute almost nothing.Jonathan said:
Maybe she will apologise. She really should. The citizens of nowhere comment was one of the most damaging .Scott_P said:
Lots of hardcore Remainers are determined to think she was talking about them. She wasn’t.
This is a meme that has been allowed to grow; a less maladroit politician would have dealt with the matter months ago.
You almost never change anybody's mind canvassing and yes political arguments on the doorstep with antis waste valuable time, so once you have identified a supporter of another party you tend not to bother them again unless it looks like you might get a landslide
There is as little point in a PM engaging with that small percentage of the electorate that Remoaners represent as there would be in Theresa May trying to win Momentum members over to the Conservative cause. Because if she tried to tread a line to bring them onboard, then no "governing" would ever get done.0 -
and military.JosiasJessop said:
China's descent down to one-person rule is more important, IMO. Trump's tariffs won't lead to war, and Putin appears to be rather over-selling his missiles' capabilities.Pulpstar said:Everyone on this board is being a touch parochial...
Trump's tarriffs and Putin's missiles are larger issues than Brexit geopolitically !
But Xi Jinping's rise to power unprecedented since Mao's time comes at a point where China is increasingly flexing its economic muscles.
South China sea is a potential flashpoint0 -
Hitler put paid to a potential new route:ydoethur said:
Dawlish Station is one of the great settings for a station - up there with Grange, Shrewsbury and Morfa Mawddach. I was there last week for half an hour waiting for a train and it was just so beautiful.MarqueeMark said:Sod it, not again!
"Flooding and Debris is blocking the rail line at Dawlish, Network Rail has said.
All Great Western Railway and CrossCountry services have been suspended due to "significant damage".
Network Rail added that there will be a flood assessment at 10:00 but it is unlikely any trains will be running before lunch "at the least"."
But I did think at the time how exposed it is and how very unsurprising weather damage to that line is. Closing the back way via Tavistock was a big error.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-260683750 -
And as SeanT of this parish warned us, China was greatly increasing its spending on research just as Osborne was cutting ours. Still, I'm sure there's nothing to worry about -- it is not as if the government is letting an unfriendly power build our nuclear power plants or communications infrastructure.rawzer said:
China’s Belt and Road strategy has the potential to reshape the way the world works for the long term in a way that makes Brexit look pretty small beer. At the very moment the US is dis-engaging with world economic structures China is actively picking up the slack with a very different model of investment driven influence extension. Heard a Pakistani politician comparing the approach to the rise of the British Empire via the machinery of economics, the East India company etc.JosiasJessop said:
China's descent down to one-person rule is more important, IMO. Trump's tariffs won't lead to war, and Putin appears to be rather over-selling his missiles' capabilities.Pulpstar said:Everyone on this board is being a touch parochial...
Trump's tarriffs and Putin's missiles are larger issues than Brexit geopolitically !
But Xi Jinping's rise to power unprecedented since Mao's time comes at a point where China is increasingly flexing its economic muscles.
Good ‘Briefing Room’ show on It on R40 -
But not great if you suffer from acrophobiaMarqueeMark said:
Add Durham to the list of spectacular views from a station.....ydoethur said:
Dawlish Station is one of the great settings for a station - up there with Grange, Shrewsbury and Morfa Mawddach. I was there last week for half an hour waiting for a train and it was just so beautiful.MarqueeMark said:Sod it, not again!
"Flooding and Debris is blocking the rail line at Dawlish, Network Rail has said.
All Great Western Railway and CrossCountry services have been suspended due to "significant damage".
Network Rail added that there will be a flood assessment at 10:00 but it is unlikely any trains will be running before lunch "at the least"."
But I did think at the time how exposed it is and how very unsurprising weather damage to that line is. Closing the back way via Tavistock was a big error.0 -
Because so much is getting done...MarqueeMark said:
If you are so easily disturbed, then it is no surprise you are having a fit of the vapours about the challenges of Brexit.....Nigelb said:
It's quite disturbing that either of you should think governing ought to bear any relation to running an election campaign.HYUFD said:
Canvassing is really about identifying supporters and potential supporters to knock them up on polling day and leaflet in the final week, provide lifts if needed and if very pro get to display a poster.MarqueeMark said:
In this case, those who heard "citizens of nowhere" and took offence were those looking to take offence. Best to ignore them. When you are out canvassing, and you get someone who is seeking to engage in a time-wasting argument, you are advised to make your excuses and leave, whilst marking them as "Against". Move on to someone whose views you might change.Essexit said:
The longevity of the 'had enough of experts' meme suggests that trying to set these things straight is futile. People will hear what they want to, edit out the bits that don't fit their narrative, then repeat as fact ad nauseam.Nigelb said:
Which she has entirely failed to make clear subsequently.Sandpit said:
That comment referred specifically to multinational companies such as Google and Facebook, who have extensive business in the UK yet use aggressive tax avoidance to contribute almost nothing.Jonathan said:
Maybe she will apologise. She really should. The citizens of nowhere comment was one of the most damaging .Scott_P said:
Lots of hardcore Remainers are determined to think she was talking about them. She wasn’t.
This is a meme that has been allowed to grow; a less maladroit politician would have dealt with the matter months ago.
You almost never change anybody's mind canvassing and yes political arguments on the doorstep with antis waste valuable time, so once you have identified a supporter of another party you tend not to bother them again unless it looks like you might get a landslide
There is as little point in a PM engaging with that small percentage of the electorate that Remoaners represent as there would be in Theresa May trying to win Momentum members over to the Conservative cause. Because if she tried to tread a line to bring them onboard, then no "governing" would ever get done.
"small %" = 48%...
I think Mike is right about the Brexit free days - there's little point in engaging.0 -
0
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Mind you, it shows the strength of the remain case that I am still in no doubt I was right to vote remain, despite the increasingly unhinged wombatry of its proponents.Floater said:
Translation - we remainers can insult leavers all we want - suck it up.AlastairMeeks said:
If only your sensitivity about language extended to the nonstop barrage of abuse that comes out of the mouths of your unhinged fellow travellers.MarqueeMark said:
When you have had to deal with a family member slitting their wrists, you tend to object to casual and hyperbolic use of "suicide".AlastairMeeks said:
What do you find offensive in that tweet?MarqueeMark said:
Nice. Scott_P retweeting someone being offensive.Scott_P said:
The only thing Remainers will accept as a "compromise" on Brexit is for Brexit not to happen. There is no common ground to be had with such people.
I realise this may be hard to compute, but there are plenty of people who see Brexit as an unmitigated national catastrophe. They are entitled to express those views and they are not going to choose gentle metaphors.0 -
So I guess we didn't get a midnight announcement about a Yorkshire Mayor.
Anyway, after my kneejerk idea of Hilary Benn being the Labour candidate for such a role, I've given it a bit more thought, and decided that the ideal person for the job is...
Ed Balls
Former Yorkshire MP, top-level experience, looking for a return to politics (is he?), well known to the public.
I suggest that the Tories put up William Hague as their candidate.
If neither gets 50% on the first ballot, there could be a dance-off. Only one winner there!0 -
Not at all. Gratuitous insults are to be deprecated.Floater said:
Translation - we remainers can insult leavers all we want - suck it up.AlastairMeeks said:
If only your sensitivity about language extended to the nonstop barrage of abuse that comes out of the mouths of your unhinged fellow travellers.MarqueeMark said:
When you have had to deal with a family member slitting their wrists, you tend to object to casual and hyperbolic use of "suicide".AlastairMeeks said:
What do you find offensive in that tweet?MarqueeMark said:
Nice. Scott_P retweeting someone being offensive.Scott_P said:
The only thing Remainers will accept as a "compromise" on Brexit is for Brexit not to happen. There is no common ground to be had with such people.
I realise this may be hard to compute, but there are plenty of people who see Brexit as an unmitigated national catastrophe. They are entitled to express those views and they are not going to choose gentle metaphors.
But this wasn't an insult, just a firmly expressed opinion. Leavers have to learn to deal with the expression of free speech.
Other people are allowed principles too.
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On topic, it seems to me that the snow is like Brexit. How wonderful you think it is depends largely on whether you have to go to work in it.0
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Utter bollocks even by your standards.Scott_P said:Sadly, test four
4. Consistent with open outward-looking European democracy
is directly contradicted by test one
1. Respect the referendum
which was vote for a more closed, inward-looking anti-European Brexitocracy
You think the EU is democratic?
Not wanting to be part of the EU does not make one anti European.
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Mr. Floater, not au fait with the area but I do wonder if the disputed islands with Japan are likelier. The South China Sea land grab has pissed off a lot of countries in the area and the US/Australia regularly have ships and planes traversing the claimed territory.
However, any action on the ground likely requires a coalition of many relatively small and weaker countries (in comparison to China or other big hitters), and massive risk. China could easily buy off a few countries to whittle down any potential coalition.
The straight up face-off with Japan, which is also building up its military, could be likelier to see a conflict break out because it's just 1v1. The Americans *might* overtly help the Japanese but otherwise it's just China and Japan opposed to one another. And Japan will not want to give up territory that currently, de facto at least, belongs to it.
I suppose the difference is that conflict with Japan depends on China choosing it, whereas conflict in the South China Sea would come about if the local countries, who've had their territory seized, want it. Hell of a risk, though.0 -
Remoaners = a flexible category which encompasses anyone who disagrees with him.Ishmael_Z said:
You have misunderstood (I think). Remoaners != Remainers.Nigelb said:
Because so much is getting done...
"small %" = 48%...
I think Mike is right about the Brexit free days - there's little point in engaging.0 -
Some people think that the only way to make their case is to use hyperbole.ydoethur said:
The words 'national suicide' are unhelpful.AlastairMeeks said:
What do you find offensive in that tweet?MarqueeMark said:
Nice. Scott_P retweeting someone being offensive.Scott_P said:
The only thing Remainers will accept as a "compromise" on Brexit is for Brexit not to happen. There is no common ground to be had with such people.
The other problem the pro-EU lobby (in which I don't include myself even as a Remain voter) has is one of credibility. We were told staying out of the Euro was economic suicide. It turned out the opposite was true - going in would have crashed it entirely in 2008. We were told that we had to give up part of our rebate to get reforms. We did, but we got no reforms. We were told that if we voted to leave the economy would shrink rapidly and immediately. It didn't. We were told planes would have to be grounded. They weren't and even the EU have quietly dropped that claim.
We're now told that leaving will cause the break-up of the UK, the withdrawal of all banks and car manufacturers and the destruction of the NHS (or as the tweeter puts it, 'national suicide'). And yet, with that track record, it just looks like silly hysteria. Even if it is true, it just doesn't cut through any more and turns people further off the EU with the simple attitude that they are a bunch of sore losers.0 -
I'll try and make Sunday a Brexit free day this weekend.
How about some old favourites?
Scottish Independence and AV?0 -
Fab. U. Lous. Darling.SandyRentool said:So I guess we didn't get a midnight announcement about a Yorkshire Mayor.
Anyway, after my kneejerk idea of Hilary Benn being the Labour candidate for such a role, I've given it a bit more thought, and decided that the ideal person for the job is...
Ed Balls
Former Yorkshire MP, top-level experience, looking for a return to politics (is he?), well known to the public.
I suggest that the Tories put up William Hague as their candidate.
If neither gets 50% on the first ballot, there could be a dance-off. Only one winner there!0 -
This is Michael Gove - but it could have been Jeremy Corbyn delivering most of this speech:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/michael-gove-water-company-bosses-speech-attack-audience-tax-executive-pay-a8235531.html0 -
JackW said:
Good spot on the white feathers.... Thank you for the welcome but have changed posting name as my former log-in never seemed to work properly and when better to create a new identity than when posting something potentially ridiculous!harryfaversham said:O/T
Are'nt you rather (white) feather bedding the situation ....
And welcome.0 -
Knaresborough too, has a beautiful viaduct as you leave the station.MarqueeMark said:
Add Durham to the list of spectacular views from a station.....ydoethur said:
Dawlish Station is one of the great settings for a station - up there with Grange, Shrewsbury and Morfa Mawddach. I was there last week for half an hour waiting for a train and it was just so beautiful.MarqueeMark said:Sod it, not again!
"Flooding and Debris is blocking the rail line at Dawlish, Network Rail has said.
All Great Western Railway and CrossCountry services have been suspended due to "significant damage".
Network Rail added that there will be a flood assessment at 10:00 but it is unlikely any trains will be running before lunch "at the least"."
But I did think at the time how exposed it is and how very unsurprising weather damage to that line is. Closing the back way via Tavistock was a big error.0 -
Welcome to PB, Mr. Faversham.0
-
The Italian election, German coalition and the Oscars would probably go down better.TheScreamingEagles said:I'll try and make Sunday a Brexit free day this weekend.
How about some old favourites?
Scottish Independence and AV?0 -
Governing is about implementing a manifesto you aim to win a majority in an election forNigelb said:
It's quite disturbing that either of you should think governing ought to bear any relation to running an election campaign.HYUFD said:
Canvassing is really about identifying supporters and potential supporters to knock them up on polling day and leaflet in the final week, provide lifts if needed and if very pro get to display a poster.MarqueeMark said:
In this case, those who heard "citizens of nowhere" and took offence were those looking to take offence. Best to ignore them. When you are out canvassing, and you get someone who is seeking to engage in a time-wasting argument, you are advised to make your excuses and leave, whilst marking them as "Against". Move on to someone whose views you might change.Essexit said:
The longevity of the 'had enough of experts' meme suggests that trying to set these things straight is futile. People will hear what they want to, edit out the bits that don't fit their narrative, then repeat as fact ad nauseam.Nigelb said:
Which she has entirely failed to make clear subsequently.Sandpit said:
That comment referred specifically to multinational companies such as Google and Facebook, who have extensive business in the UK yet use aggressive tax avoidance to contribute almost nothing.Jonathan said:
Maybe she will apologise. She really should. The citizens of nowhere comment was one of the most damaging .Scott_P said:
Lots of hardcore Remainers are determined to think she was talking about them. She wasn’t.
This is a meme that has been allowed to grow; a less maladroit politician would have dealt with the matter months ago.
You almost never change anybody's mind canvassing and yes political arguments on the doorstep with antis waste valuable time, so once you have identified a supporter of another party you tend not to bother them again unless it looks like you might get a landslide0 -
How about the Italian general election which unlike those two is actually relevant that day? I am sure you can have plenty of fun with thatTheScreamingEagles said:I'll try and make Sunday a Brexit free day this weekend.
How about some old favourites?
Scottish Independence and AV?0 -
Mr. Sandpit, and the Russian election (although that's more about how much Putin will win by than anything else).0
-
How about 'How long the next leader of UKIP will last'?TheScreamingEagles said:I'll try and make Sunday a Brexit free day this weekend.
How about some old favourites?
Scottish Independence and AV?0 -
Indeed. As Dan Hannan said before the referendum, one can like Europe yet dislike the EU, in much the same way as one can like football yet dislike FIFA.Floater said:
Utter bollocks even by your standards.Scott_P said:Sadly, test four
4. Consistent with open outward-looking European democracy
is directly contradicted by test one
1. Respect the referendum
which was vote for a more closed, inward-looking anti-European Brexitocracy
You think the EU is democratic?
Not wanting to be part of the EU does not make one anti European.
There are plenty of us who have an internationalist outlook and have lived abroad, who voted to leave the undemocratic and unaccountable organisation which the EU had become.0 -
The EU believes democracy is something for nation states - and does support it there (unless voters get the answer wrong, then they're asked again, until they get the answer right - hence this push for referendum 2).FF43 said:
Actually this bothers me more than "citizens of nowhere" suggestions. Because it's wrong on the facts, widely believed and causally repeated. We can make much valid criticism of the EU, but actively working against democracy isn't one of them.CarlottaVance said:
And still a democracy. Something of a blind spot with the EU.ydoethur said:
Britain will still be European. Just not part of the EU. That is something different although there is sometimes conflation of the two.Scott_P said:Sadly, test four
4. Consistent with open outward-looking European democracy
is directly contradicted by test one
1. Respect the referendum
which was vote for a more closed, inward-looking anti-European Brexitocracy
Just as Canada is an American country, but is not part of the United States, sometimes wrongly called 'America'.
Thinking back to Major:
What he did: 3 line whip, no referendum.
What he advocates: free vote, second referendum.
However, as for itself:
It so happens that UK withdrawal is not the worst of the EU’s current problems. The relationship between a government and the market in capitalist systems is all-consuming and fundamental. The EU is in that relationship with the overall EU economy. But this means that the relationship tends to reach into higher and higher levels of the public policy which ultimately determines the distribution of the burdens and benefits of a society, perhaps even fiscal policy. In a liberal democratic capitalist system, this means that there must be politics.
The EU has the substance of traditional liberal democratic institutions, but it does not have the essence of liberal democracy, which rests on the relentless daily struggle of public opinion, causing and justifying law-making and government and administration. Resolving that problem is an urgent priority.
Philip Allott Professor Emeritus of International Public Law at Cambridge University.
http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2018/03/01/the-eu-legal-system-is-not-a-thing-you-can-leave/0 -
Can’t do that. There’s a real chance he/she wouldn’t last as long as the thread.rottenborough said:
How about 'How long the next leader of UKIP will last'?TheScreamingEagles said:I'll try and make Sunday a Brexit free day this weekend.
How about some old favourites?
Scottish Independence and AV?0 -
On a personal level I voted Remain and since the result my monthly pension dropped by around €350 per month with no way to avoid it living in Spain. I've more reason than many to resent it. However I respect it and move on and am very content with my life. I think the average person is much the same .Sean_F said:
Some people think that the only way to make their case is to use hyperbole.ydoethur said:
The words 'national suicide' are unhelpful.AlastairMeeks said:
What do you find offensive in that tweet?MarqueeMark said:
Nice. Scott_P retweeting someone being offensive.Scott_P said:
The only thing Remainers will accept as a "compromise" on Brexit is for Brexit not to happen. There is no common ground to be had with such people.
The other problem the pro-EU lobby (in which I don't include myself even as a Remain voter) has is one of credibility. We were told staying out of the Euro was economic suicide. It turned out the opposite was true - going in would have crashed it entirely in 2008. We were told that we had to give up part of our rebate to get reforms. We did, but we got no reforms. We were told that if we voted to leave the economy would shrink rapidly and immediately. It didn't. We were told planes would have to be grounded. They weren't and even the EU have quietly dropped that claim.
We're now told that leaving will cause the break-up of the UK, the withdrawal of all banks and car manufacturers and the destruction of the NHS (or as the tweeter puts it, 'national suicide'). And yet, with that track record, it just looks like silly hysteria. Even if it is true, it just doesn't cut through any more and turns people further off the EU with the simple attitude that they are a bunch of sore losers.0 -
Understand the last line; but the EU is moving towards greater democratic control and, until we decided to elect Faragists as MEP's we were helping that project.Floater said:
Utter bollocks even by your standards.Scott_P said:Sadly, test four
4. Consistent with open outward-looking European democracy
is directly contradicted by test one
1. Respect the referendum
which was vote for a more closed, inward-looking anti-European Brexitocracy
You think the EU is democratic?
Not wanting to be part of the EU does not make one anti European.
I don't know how Mrs May squares her pre-referendum remarks with those nowadays. Or her conscience!0 -
No, something much more useful:SandyRentool said:So I guess we didn't get a midnight announcement about a Yorkshire Mayor.
https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/business/siemens-unveils-plans-for-200m-yorkshire-factory-that-could-create-1-700-new-jobs-1-90434610 -
We should definitely be keeping an eye on Italian elections. Things could get very rocky over there.Sandpit said:
The Italian election, German coalition and the Oscars would probably go down better.TheScreamingEagles said:I'll try and make Sunday a Brexit free day this weekend.
How about some old favourites?
Scottish Independence and AV?0 -
My own Blue Tits are singing their little hearts on the branches of my Betula tree, which is festooned with food for them. I have a gorgeous Cumbrian slate bird house fixed to the front of my house in which every year for the past few years they nest.Foxy said:Could I just say that Mrs Foxy has Blue Tits, but also Great Tits.
Its never too early for smutty innuendo, but rather chilly replenishing her bird feeders this morning. While they are her birds, refilling is a "boy job" it seems on a day like today...
It is most cheering in this weather to see and hear them about their business.-1 -
I think Putin wants to win 70% or so, rather than the 99.9% that most dictators prefer.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Sandpit, and the Russian election (although that's more about how much Putin will win by than anything else).
0 -
And it remains one of the dumbest things he ever said, which given the rest of his Brexit output makes it pretty special.Sandpit said:As Dan Hannan said before the referendum, one can like Europe yet dislike the EU, in much the same way as one can like football yet dislike FIFA.
If you follow his logic, we should leave FIFA so we can have a global tournament with all the other Nations that are not members...0 -
As demonstrated by the Selmyr putsch......OldKingCole said:
the EU is moving towards greater democratic controlFloater said:
Utter bollocks even by your standards.Scott_P said:Sadly, test four
4. Consistent with open outward-looking European democracy
is directly contradicted by test one
1. Respect the referendum
which was vote for a more closed, inward-looking anti-European Brexitocracy
You think the EU is democratic?
Not wanting to be part of the EU does not make one anti European.0 -
I'm qualified to write about the first two, as for the third piece, 1) Roger is PB's expert on the Oscars, 2) My bias towards 'The Shape of Water' would show.Sandpit said:
The Italian election, German coalition and the Oscars would probably go down better.TheScreamingEagles said:I'll try and make Sunday a Brexit free day this weekend.
How about some old favourites?
Scottish Independence and AV?0 -
If Scotland left FIFA, would they notice the difference?Scott_P said:
And it remains one of the dumbest things he ever said, which given the rest of his Brexit output makes it pretty special.Sandpit said:As Dan Hannan said before the referendum, one can like Europe yet dislike the EU, in much the same way as one can like football yet dislike FIFA.
If you follow his logic, we should leave FIFA so we can have a global tournament with all the other Nations that are not members...0 -
As we now have a cat, we no longer encourage birds into the garden.Cyclefree said:
My own Blue Tits are singing their little hearts on the branches of my Betula tree, which is festooned with food for them. I have a gorgeous Cumbrian slate bird house fixed to the front of my house in which every year for the past few years they nest.Foxy said:Could I just say that Mrs Foxy has Blue Tits, but also Great Tits.
Its never too early for smutty innuendo, but rather chilly replenishing her bird feeders this morning. While they are her birds, refilling is a "boy job" it seems on a day like today...
It is most cheering in this weather to see and hear them about their business.0 -
Good on him. It’s the job of the minister to represent the customers of these businesses.rkrkrk said:This is Michael Gove - but it could have been Jeremy Corbyn delivering most of this speech:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/michael-gove-water-company-bosses-speech-attack-audience-tax-executive-pay-a8235531.html
I think that those in the room would infitely prefer being regulated by Mr Gove’s department than by Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell.0 -
its in London this year, pop along.Scott_P said:
And it remains one of the dumbest things he ever said, which given the rest of his Brexit output makes it pretty special.Sandpit said:As Dan Hannan said before the referendum, one can like Europe yet dislike the EU, in much the same way as one can like football yet dislike FIFA.
If you follow his logic, we should leave FIFA so we can have a global tournament with all the other Nations that are not members...0 -
Trump and trade wars could be the big story next week.TheScreamingEagles said:I'll try and make Sunday a Brexit free day this weekend.
How about some old favourites?
Scottish Independence and AV?
Personally I think there's a good chance he will back down before it gets too bad.
But let's see.0 -
This is in my front garden as I too have cats. They don't go out front. And the birds are getting increasingly bold in the back. We have a robin and the tits and blackbirds are always picking bits for their nests from the evergreen jasmine I have growing along one fence.Sean_F said:
As we now have a cat, we no longer encourage birds into the garden.Cyclefree said:
My own Blue Tits are singing their little hearts on the branches of my Betula tree, which is festooned with food for them. I have a gorgeous Cumbrian slate bird house fixed to the front of my house in which every year for the past few years they nest.Foxy said:Could I just say that Mrs Foxy has Blue Tits, but also Great Tits.
Its never too early for smutty innuendo, but rather chilly replenishing her bird feeders this morning. While they are her birds, refilling is a "boy job" it seems on a day like today...
It is most cheering in this weather to see and hear them about their business.0 -
I;m not sure that you can divorce a discussion of Scottish independence, or trade wars from the Brexit debate.rkrkrk said:
Trump and trade wars could be the big story next week.TheScreamingEagles said:I'll try and make Sunday a Brexit free day this weekend.
How about some old favourites?
Scottish Independence and AV?
Personally I think there's a good chance he will back down before it gets too bad.
But let's see.
AV might be fun though...0 -
I agree - good on him for making the speech.Sandpit said:
Good on him. It’s the job of the minister to represent the customers of these businesses.rkrkrk said:This is Michael Gove - but it could have been Jeremy Corbyn delivering most of this speech:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/michael-gove-water-company-bosses-speech-attack-audience-tax-executive-pay-a8235531.html
I think that those in the room would infitely prefer being regulated by Mr Gove’s department than by Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell.
But my how the political weather has changed.0 -
-
0
-
Back in 2016, there was serious discussion being given to a breakaway World Cup, as a result of the FIFA corruption that led to the WC being awarded to Russia and Qatar.Scott_P said:
And it remains one of the dumbest things he ever said, which given the rest of his Brexit output makes it pretty special.Sandpit said:As Dan Hannan said before the referendum, one can like Europe yet dislike the EU, in much the same way as one can like football yet dislike FIFA.
If you follow his logic, we should leave FIFA so we can have a global tournament with all the other Nations that are not members...
It might not happen this year, but it’s possible in 2022. The Qataris have upset their neighbours by funding Iranian terrorists and Yemeni rebels - meaning that the stadia, hotels and infrastructure required are unlikely to be finished on time.0 -
There's a lovely old boy in his eighties in Pembrokeshire, who makes superb bird boxes:Cyclefree said:
My own Blue Tits are singing their little hearts on the branches of my Betula tree, which is festooned with food for them. I have a gorgeous Cumbrian slate bird house fixed to the front of my house in which every year for the past few years they nest.Foxy said:Could I just say that Mrs Foxy has Blue Tits, but also Great Tits.
Its never too early for smutty innuendo, but rather chilly replenishing her bird feeders this morning. While they are her birds, refilling is a "boy job" it seems on a day like today...
It is most cheering in this weather to see and hear them about their business.
http://www.georgemadethis.co.uk/
I have several, but I have had to put a metal washer over the entrance hole, to discourage the squirrels from trying to gnaw their way in.....0 -
0
-
Very trueNigelb said:
I;m not sure that you can divorce a discussion of Scottish independence, or trade wars from the Brexit debate.rkrkrk said:
Trump and trade wars could be the big story next week.TheScreamingEagles said:I'll try and make Sunday a Brexit free day this weekend.
How about some old favourites?
Scottish Independence and AV?
Personally I think there's a good chance he will back down before it gets too bad.
But let's see.
0 -
Unfortunately, our cat is a savage. He's brought in tits, robins, blackbirds and wood pigeons.Cyclefree said:
This is in my front garden as I too have cats. They don't go out front. And the birds are getting increasingly bold in the back. We have a robin and the tits and blackbirds are always picking bits for their nests from the evergreen jasmine I have growing along one fence.Sean_F said:
As we now have a cat, we no longer encourage birds into the garden.Cyclefree said:
My own Blue Tits are singing their little hearts on the branches of my Betula tree, which is festooned with food for them. I have a gorgeous Cumbrian slate bird house fixed to the front of my house in which every year for the past few years they nest.Foxy said:Could I just say that Mrs Foxy has Blue Tits, but also Great Tits.
Its never too early for smutty innuendo, but rather chilly replenishing her bird feeders this morning. While they are her birds, refilling is a "boy job" it seems on a day like today...
It is most cheering in this weather to see and hear them about their business.0 -
That’s what worries them. We are neither some poor ex Soviet or Balkan remainder, nor a mega rich small state, nor a pumpernickel constitutional postage stamp. It’s our very normality that would mean we represent a “plan b”. We’d be living proof you can still function perfectly well in the world, be prosperous, and really responsively democratic without having to put up with the flow of annoyance from the Berlaymont.ydoethur said:
Yes - I thought of some of those but I decided that perhaps Russia, Belorussia, Serbia, Bosnia and Albania were not perhaps dazzling examples of European democracy we would wish to aspire to...HYUFD said:
Same as Russia, Switzerland, Norway, Iceland, Liechtenstein, Belarus and for now Serbia, Bosnia and Macedonia and Albania are also part of Europe and not part of the EUydoethur said:
Britain will still be European. Just not part of the EU. That is something different although there is sometimes conflation of the two.Scott_P said:Sadly, test four
4. Consistent with open outward-looking European democracy
is directly contradicted by test one
1. Respect the referendum
which was vote for a more closed, inward-looking anti-European Brexitocracy
Just as Canada is an American country, but is not part of the United States, sometimes wrongly called 'America'.
We’d be there pointing out the emporer had no clothes by our very existence.
Hence all the determined attempts to keep us as close as they can.0 -
Mr. Pulpstar, or looking ahead to a second referendum...0
-
Curtis will have told her a second ref is a huge risk.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Pulpstar, or looking ahead to a second referendum...
0 -
Of course they are. But then the average person doesn't come onto a political website to discuss the important political matters of the day. All day long.felix said:
On a personal level I voted Remain and since the result my monthly pension dropped by around €350 per month with no way to avoid it living in Spain. I've more reason than many to resent it. However I respect it and move on and am very content with my life. I think the average person is much the same .Sean_F said:
Some people think that the only way to make their case is to use hyperbole.ydoethur said:
The words 'national suicide' are unhelpful.AlastairMeeks said:
What do you find offensive in that tweet?MarqueeMark said:
Nice. Scott_P retweeting someone being offensive.Scott_P said:
The only thing Remainers will accept as a "compromise" on Brexit is for Brexit not to happen. There is no common ground to be had with such people.
The other problem the pro-EU lobby (in which I don't include myself even as a Remain voter) has is one of credibility. We were told staying out of the Euro was economic suicide. It turned out the opposite was true - going in would have crashed it entirely in 2008. We were told that we had to give up part of our rebate to get reforms. We did, but we got no reforms. We were told that if we voted to leave the economy would shrink rapidly and immediately. It didn't. We were told planes would have to be grounded. They weren't and even the EU have quietly dropped that claim.
We're now told that leaving will cause the break-up of the UK, the withdrawal of all banks and car manufacturers and the destruction of the NHS (or as the tweeter puts it, 'national suicide'). And yet, with that track record, it just looks like silly hysteria. Even if it is true, it just doesn't cut through any more and turns people further off the EU with the simple attitude that they are a bunch of sore losers.
And political matters of the day right now don't get more important than Br*x*t. With all apologies to the demos of Italy.0 -
On the Dawlish rail story: the A379 at Torcross along the Slapton line has been taken out by the sea. One lane is gone.
Looking rather troubling.....0 -
But leaving aside the subtleties of how the question of another referendum is posed, is there any consistent evidence that support for having another referendum has increased? Neither of the two most substantial time series we have, from YouGov and Opinium, provides much evidence in support of this proposition. In YouGov’s case, there is some indication that perhaps opinion has moved very slightly in favour of a second ballot; their last two polls put support at 33% and 36%, whereas in April it stood in two polls at 31%. But in the case of Opinium, whose time series is the longest of all, it is very difficult to discern any evidence of a long-term trend at all. Detecting a shift in public opinion on Brexit – in either direction – is, it seems, very hard to do.Pulpstar said:
Curtis will have told her a second ref is a huge risk.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Pulpstar, or looking ahead to a second referendum...
https://whatukthinks.org/eu/are-voters-changing-their-minds-about-brexit/0 -
Least she's asking Curtice rather than Nick Timothy.0
-
In short, it looks as though the outcome of another referendum could well depend on which side’s supporters proved more likely to turn out, and that must be regarded as a highly uncertain foundation on which to rest any hopes that Remain supporters may have that the June 2016 verdict can be overturned.TheScreamingEagles said:
https://whatukthinks.org/eu/are-voters-changing-their-minds-about-brexit/0 -
Even thinking anti-Brexit thoughts is offensive to some.AlastairMeeks said:
The man is entitled to his view.ydoethur said:
The words 'national suicide' are unhelpful.AlastairMeeks said:
What do you find offensive in that tweet?MarqueeMark said:
Nice. Scott_P retweeting someone being offensive.Scott_P said:
The only thing Remainers will accept as a "compromise" on Brexit is for Brexit not to happen. There is no common ground to be had with such people.
The other problem the pro-EU lobby (in which I don't include myself even as a Remain voter) has is one of credibility. We were told staying out of the Euro was economic suicide. It turned out the opposite was true - going in would have crashed it entirely in 2008. We were told that we had to give up part of our rebate to get reforms. We did, but we got no reforms. We were told that if we voted to leave the economy would shrink rapidly and immediately. It didn't. We were told planes would have to be grounded. They weren't and even the EU have quietly dropped that claim.
We're now told that leaving will cause the break-up of the UK, the withdrawal of all banks and car manufacturers and the destruction of the NHS (or as the tweeter puts it, 'national suicide'). And yet, with that track record, it just looks like silly hysteria. Even if it is true, it just doesn't cut through any more and turns people further off the EU with the simple attitude that they are a bunch of sore losers.
Leavers have reached the point where a conflicting view firmly expressed is offensive. But one of their own can label someone with a conflicting view a traitor and it passes without comment.
https://twitter.com/nickjtimothy/status/942138727194877953?s=210 -
Morris_Dancer said:
Mr. Sandpit, and the Russian election (although that's more about how much Putin will win by than anything else).
Newsnight had a very interesting piece on Ksenia Sobchak a couple of nights back.0 -
I'm deeply disappointed you omitted "AV might be fun though..." from that approval.rkrkrk said:
Very trueNigelb said:
I;m not sure that you can divorce a discussion of Scottish independence, or trade wars from the Brexit debate.rkrkrk said:
Trump and trade wars could be the big story next week.TheScreamingEagles said:I'll try and make Sunday a Brexit free day this weekend.
How about some old favourites?
Scottish Independence and AV?
Personally I think there's a good chance he will back down before it gets too bad.
But let's see. 0 -
Did anyone bet on who would set the fastest time in the completely unregulated test session this week?Morris_Dancer said:Sorry to hear that, Mr. Jessop.
Mr. Smithson, well, if you want someone to ramble about F1 as a pleasant distraction from eurowoe...
After lots of rain and snow, the fastest lap was by Lewis Hamilton in his Mercedes. Which tells us precisely nothing really.0 -
EU 'democracy':
All this would be just an anecdote about the EU bubble court, worth entertaining columns, if it had not come amid grand speeches about EU democracy and the legitimacy of the institutions.
https://euobserver.com/institutional/1411440 -
Mr. Sandpit, aye. Bad odds, were something like 1.5 or evens. As I indicated, I stayed out of that market.
Speaking of which, BBC reckons Renault are fourth best: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/432460980 -
There’s no might about it - absolute certainty.Nigelb said:
I'm deeply disappointed you omitted "AV might be fun though..." from that approval.rkrkrk said:
Very trueNigelb said:
I;m not sure that you can divorce a discussion of Scottish independence, or trade wars from the Brexit debate.rkrkrk said:
Trump and trade wars could be the big story next week.TheScreamingEagles said:I'll try and make Sunday a Brexit free day this weekend.
How about some old favourites?
Scottish Independence and AV?
Personally I think there's a good chance he will back down before it gets too bad.
But let's see.0 -
The only Russian presidential candidate to feature in an urban legend about being on a Pulp album cover.Nigelb said:Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Sandpit, and the Russian election (although that's more about how much Putin will win by than anything else).
Newsnight had a very interesting piece on Ksenia Sobchak a couple of nights back.0 -
or a montage of the sunday papers front pagesrottenborough said:
How about 'How long the next leader of UKIP will last'?TheScreamingEagles said:I'll try and make Sunday a Brexit free day this weekend.
How about some old favourites?
Scottish Independence and AV?0 -
Actually I've already written a thread for Sunday, it contains a reference to AV.rkrkrk said:
There’s no might about it - absolute certainty.Nigelb said:
I'm deeply disappointed you omitted "AV might be fun though..." from that approval.rkrkrk said:
Very trueNigelb said:
I;m not sure that you can divorce a discussion of Scottish independence, or trade wars from the Brexit debate.rkrkrk said:
Trump and trade wars could be the big story next week.TheScreamingEagles said:I'll try and make Sunday a Brexit free day this weekend.
How about some old favourites?
Scottish Independence and AV?
Personally I think there's a good chance he will back down before it gets too bad.
But let's see.0 -
Once more unto the speech, what time is Mrs May's speech?0
