politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Putting the Northern Ireland border issue into perspective – t
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I actually agree and the poor media reporting together with hysteria from both sides hides the fact that both parties need a deal. Today has shown that a high handed attitude from Barnier has backfired on the EU and a fair deal needs to result otherwise no PM will get the support to give the EU the 50 billion euros they wantTorby_Fennel said:
Remainers are only talking to and listening to Remainers. Leavers are only talking to and listening to Leavers... We're now getting to crisis point beyond where each side thinks the other side is wrong and we're hurtling towards a dangerous situation where each side thinks the views held by the other side are totally insane. I haven't got a clue how this can be resolved.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Just another elite remainer who is only talking to remainers - no one else is listening0 -
Nothing is agreed until everything is agreedBromptonaut said:
How will €50bn solve the Border Problem (TM)? The payment is included in the draft legal agreement but so is the requirement for regulatory alignment.Big_G_NorthWales said:
She will solve it - 50 billion euros say soBromptonaut said:
So what? Explain how the level of popular support for TM helps her to solve the Border Problem (TM).Big_G_NorthWales said:
I would expect her to receive a boost for standing upto Barnier. The EU have made their first big mistakePulpstar said:May's stance going down well on BBC Have your say.
It’s already priced in. Have another go.0 -
Indeed. And once industry realises this we 're right royal fuckedFoxy said:
WTO Brexit is the default. Always a likely possibility.Torby_Fennel said:
Remainers are only talking to and listening to Remainers. Leavers are only talking to and listening to Leavers... We're now getting to crisis point beyond where each side thinks the other side is wrong and we're hurtling towards a dangerous situation where each side thinks the views held by the other side are totally insane. I haven't got a clue how this can be resolved.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Just another elite remainer who is only talking to remainers - no one else is listening0 -
Labour must consider it serious enough to stop all payments from him to themCyclefree said:
But you can't ignore the possibility of perjury. The only reason he is posing as a campaigner for privacy is because of his libel win. His claim in that case was based on his good character. If in fact his character was not good, if he only got that libel win through perjury his whole shtick falls. His character is not being assassinated by the Mail. It is being brought into question by his own actions and sayings (assuming that what is being alleged is true). The Mail is bringing them to light.Roger said:
Ignoring the possibility of perjury what is the point the Mail is trying to make? Surely not that 56 years ago Mosley might have written a racist pamphlet and therefore he's an unpleasant person? What they are doing is their stock-in-trade. A no holds barred character assassination in order to put a stop to his privacy agenda.Cyclefree said:Roger said:
My point is simply that if the Mail believe Mosley's 56 year old ignoble past is fair game then so is theirs.
Sure they have an agenda. But so does Mosley. And it is only right to scrutinise how he got to be this privacy campaigner and whether in posing as the white knight to clean up the press he has clean hands himself.
It is not the Mail which is seeking to prevent others from pointing out what a long dead owner did 80 years. Or asking that the historical record be wiped clean. It is Mosley. What he is doing is effectively trying to control what others say about him, in effect to enshrine the concept of Fake News. Because if we can't, as a matter of historical factual record, refer to the libel case or to his funding of Impress, then Fake News is being put out about him.
Regardless of whether it is the Mail doing this or some local newspaper or Channel 4 or some blog somewhere, this is a very worrying development. Mosley is a rich man seeking to control the world around him to suit him. He should not be a hero to anyone, even if he is being attacked by the Mail.0 -
"Soubry Terms". She has certainly made WTO more likely.Foxy said:
WTO Brexit is the default. Always a likely possibility.Torby_Fennel said:
Remainers are only talking to and listening to Remainers. Leavers are only talking to and listening to Leavers... We're now getting to crisis point beyond where each side thinks the other side is wrong and we're hurtling towards a dangerous situation where each side thinks the views held by the other side are totally insane. I haven't got a clue how this can be resolved.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Just another elite remainer who is only talking to remainers - no one else is listening0 -
Big_G_NorthWales said:
Evening Malc - what is it like in Gods own Country tonight. It is a wind chill of minus 20 here in Llandudno. Have you got a red alert. Keep safe
Hello Big G , I am in Czech Republic this week where very cold , -8 to -11 but no snow. My wife advises it is desperate in Ayrshire , lots of snow.
The central belt has only the second ever red alert so hope the good people of Ayrshire keep inside, warm and safe. The whole of Wales is due a huge snow bomb, gales and ice rain over the next two days with recommendation that all Welsh Schools are closed for the next two days.
Big G , I had a wonderful Goulash and 3 litres of excellent beer to keep me happy. Very pleasant evening and now tucked up in bed.0 -
malcolmg said:Big_G_NorthWales said:
Evening Malc - what is it like in Gods own Country tonight. It is a wind chill of minus 20 here in Llandudno. Have you got a red alert. Keep safe
Hello Big G , I am in Czech Republic this week where very cold , -8 to -11 but no snow. My wife advises it is desperate in Ayrshire , lots of snow.
The central belt has only the second ever red alert so hope the good people of Ayrshire keep inside, warm and safe. The whole of Wales is due a huge snow bomb, gales and ice rain over the next two days with recommendation that all Welsh Schools are closed for the next two days.
Big G , I had a wonderful Goulash and 3 litres of excellent beer to keep me happy. Very pleasant evening and now tucked up in bed.
Impressed Malc - have a good nights rest0 -
A real LOL momentanother_richard said:
Watson could ask for a whip-round.RochdalePioneers said:
Like Tom Watson has 500 large in his back pocket...Big_G_NorthWales said:
Well labour have stopped taking donations from him, Tom Watson is being asked to return the £500,000 he received from him, and he has finished off ImpressRochdalePioneers said:An "interesting" journey from Teesside to that London - including dragging my case through deep snow in a blizzard. Loving the Beast - proper weather for a change.
I couldn't give a toss about the Moseley story. Boy influenced by dad shock.
On Brexit the question is this- what falls apart first. The Good Friday Agreement? Any prospect of a viable non-catastrophic Brexit? The Tory government? As a life-long student of politics I'm not sure there is enough popcorn in the world for this.
But Max Mosley might get the wrong idea.0 -
BollocksMarqueeMark said:"Soubry Terms". She has certainly made WTO more likely.
The only people who made WTO likely are those who voted for Brexit.
Are you ever going to grow a pair and accept responsibility?0 -
Big G , I had a wonderful Goulash and 3 litres of excellent beer to keep me happy. Very pleasant evening and now tucked up in bed.Big_G_NorthWales said:malcolmg said:Big_G_NorthWales said:
Evening Malc - what is it like in Gods own Country tonight. It is a wind chill of minus 20 here in Llandudno. Have you got a red alert. Keep safe
Hello Big G , I am in Czech Republic this week where very cold , -8 to -11 but no snow. My wife advises it is desperate in Ayrshire , lots of snow.
The central belt has only the second ever red alert so hope the good people of Ayrshire keep inside, warm and safe. The whole of Wales is due a huge snow bomb, gales and ice rain over the next two days with recommendation that all Welsh Schools are closed for the next two days.
Impressed Malc - have a good nights rest
Must admit this is the first time in a long time where the weather has matched up to or exceeded the hype where I am (Lincolnshire Edge just north of Maggie's hometown) . We started with snow on Monday which continued off and on through yesterday and daylight today. But we have then had about 3-4 inches in the last few hours. No public transport is planned to run tomorrow and the schools have all shut down. It is also bloody cold and windy with drifts.
Very glad I have plenty of wood for the fires. I understand that Lincoln to the north is even worse.
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Although "Labour say it is not fair to imply collusion" is the weakest non-denial I have heard in a long time. The Tories should go hell for leather on this. Did Labour discuss timing of Corbyn's speech with the EU or didn't they?bigjohnowls said:
Its a step up from Commie Spy that the same source was accusing Corbyn of last weekFloater said:https://order-order.com/2018/02/28/labour-accused-colluding-barnier/
Is that really a good look for Labour?0 -
Nope. If we don't get a deal then there is no money. It is actually written into the agreement from December.Bromptonaut said:
How will €50bn solve the Border Problem (TM)? The payment is included in the draft legal agreement but so is the requirement for regulatory alignment.Big_G_NorthWales said:
She will solve it - 50 billion euros say soBromptonaut said:
So what? Explain how the level of popular support for TM helps her to solve the Border Problem (TM).Big_G_NorthWales said:
I would expect her to receive a boost for standing upto Barnier. The EU have made their first big mistakePulpstar said:May's stance going down well on BBC Have your say.
It’s already priced in. Have another go.0 -
The Two Minute Hate against Sir John Major has been extended to Eight Hours and counting. It seems only Leavers are entitled to opinions - appropriately, the snowflakes have fallen in vast quantities today.0
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He's just doing as instructed.Elliot said:
Although "Labour say it is not fair to imply collusion" is the weakest non-denial I have heard in a long time. The Tories should go hell for leather on this. Did Labour discuss timing of Corbyn's speech with the EU or didn't they?bigjohnowls said:
Its a step up from Commie Spy that the same source was accusing Corbyn of last weekFloater said:https://order-order.com/2018/02/28/labour-accused-colluding-barnier/
Is that really a good look for Labour?
https://twitter.com/theresa_may/status/8658555784548065290 -
Shame he didn't consider the damage he was going to cause to millions of ordinary people when he enthusiastically signed us up to ERM then fought tooth and nail to keep us in.williamglenn said:0 -
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TM rejecting Barnier on Ireland is headlining the news media and they are showing her comments at PMQ's and they will be well received in the Country0
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It was the Lawsom boom-bust cycle that damaged ordinary people. Blaming the ERM was just a nice propaganda trick.Richard_Tyndall said:
Shame he didn't consider the damage he was going to cause to millions of ordinary people when he enthusiastically signed us up to ERM then fought tooth and nail to keep us in.williamglenn said:0 -
And there’s a hard border. And no transition. And no Nissan.Richard_Tyndall said:
Nope. If we don't get a deal then there is no money. It is actually written into the agreement from December.Bromptonaut said:
How will €50bn solve the Border Problem (TM)? The payment is included in the draft legal agreement but so is the requirement for regulatory alignment.Big_G_NorthWales said:
She will solve it - 50 billion euros say soBromptonaut said:
So what? Explain how the level of popular support for TM helps her to solve the Border Problem (TM).Big_G_NorthWales said:
I would expect her to receive a boost for standing upto Barnier. The EU have made their first big mistakePulpstar said:May's stance going down well on BBC Have your say.
It’s already priced in. Have another go.0 -
Major means he cannot sit there and accept the democratic verdict of the public. He knows best of course.0
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Garbage. I do love the way you prostitute yourself with any old lie to defend the EU. It is a stunning example of fanaticism.williamglenn said:
It was the Lawsom boom-bust cycle that damaged ordinary people. Blaming the ERM was just a nice propaganda trick.Richard_Tyndall said:
Shame he didn't consider the damage he was going to cause to millions of ordinary people when he enthusiastically signed us up to ERM then fought tooth and nail to keep us in.williamglenn said:0 -
When are you going to accept responsibility for decades of collusion with the EU that caused Brexit?Scott_P said:
BollocksMarqueeMark said:"Soubry Terms". She has certainly made WTO more likely.
The only people who made WTO likely are those who voted for Brexit.
Are you ever going to grow a pair and accept responsibility?
I won't wait up.0 -
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By what mechanism do you think the ERM damaged millions of ordinary people?Richard_Tyndall said:
Garbage. I do love the way you prostitute yourself with any old lie to defend the EU. It is a stunning example of fanaticism.williamglenn said:
It was the Lawsom boom-bust cycle that damaged ordinary people. Blaming the ERM was just a nice propaganda trick.Richard_Tyndall said:
Shame he didn't consider the damage he was going to cause to millions of ordinary people when he enthusiastically signed us up to ERM then fought tooth and nail to keep us in.williamglenn said:0 -
Yawn.Bromptonaut said:
And there’s a hard border. And no transition. And no Nissan.Richard_Tyndall said:
Nope. If we don't get a deal then there is no money. It is actually written into the agreement from December.Bromptonaut said:
How will €50bn solve the Border Problem (TM)? The payment is included in the draft legal agreement but so is the requirement for regulatory alignment.Big_G_NorthWales said:
She will solve it - 50 billion euros say soBromptonaut said:
So what? Explain how the level of popular support for TM helps her to solve the Border Problem (TM).Big_G_NorthWales said:
I would expect her to receive a boost for standing upto Barnier. The EU have made their first big mistakePulpstar said:May's stance going down well on BBC Have your say.
It’s already priced in. Have another go.0 -
Insouciance is so 2017.Richard_Tyndall said:
Yawn.Bromptonaut said:
And there’s a hard border. And no transition. And no Nissan.Richard_Tyndall said:
Nope. If we don't get a deal then there is no money. It is actually written into the agreement from December.Bromptonaut said:
How will €50bn solve the Border Problem (TM)? The payment is included in the draft legal agreement but so is the requirement for regulatory alignment.Big_G_NorthWales said:
She will solve it - 50 billion euros say soBromptonaut said:
So what? Explain how the level of popular support for TM helps her to solve the Border Problem (TM).Big_G_NorthWales said:
I would expect her to receive a boost for standing upto Barnier. The EU have made their first big mistakePulpstar said:May's stance going down well on BBC Have your say.
It’s already priced in. Have another go.0 -
May is rejecting what she agreed to just 2 months ago. Barnier's exasperation is fairly comprehensible.Big_G_NorthWales said:TM rejecting Barnier on Ireland is headlining the news media and they are showing her comments at PMQ's and they will be well received in the Country
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Fear mongering is so 2016Bromptonaut said:
Insouciance is so 2017.Richard_Tyndall said:
Yawn.Bromptonaut said:
And there’s a hard border. And no transition. And no Nissan.Richard_Tyndall said:
Nope. If we don't get a deal then there is no money. It is actually written into the agreement from December.Bromptonaut said:
How will €50bn solve the Border Problem (TM)? The payment is included in the draft legal agreement but so is the requirement for regulatory alignment.Big_G_NorthWales said:
She will solve it - 50 billion euros say soBromptonaut said:
So what? Explain how the level of popular support for TM helps her to solve the Border Problem (TM).Big_G_NorthWales said:
I would expect her to receive a boost for standing upto Barnier. The EU have made their first big mistakePulpstar said:May's stance going down well on BBC Have your say.
It’s already priced in. Have another go.0 -
Boris Johnson believes the Irish border is being used by Remainers to fight a “proxy war” to thwart Brexit as two former prime ministers raise the prospect of a second referendum.
The Foreign Secretary fears “ultra-Remainers” in Parliament and Whitehall are among those taking part in the conspiracy as Theresa May prepares to make her third major Brexit speech on Friday.
On the day that the Prime Minister vehemently rejected Brussels’ proposal for the EU Withdrawal Agreement, Sir John Major made an unprecedented attack on his fellow Conservative with a speech that accused her of “bad politics”.
He spoke less than three hours after Michel Barnier, the EU’s chief Brexit negotiator, set out Brussels’ position, which demands that Northern Ireland remains part of the EU’s customs arrangements, effectively making the province an annexe of the EU.
Some Brexit-supporting MPs fear that Theresa May will water down commitments made at last week’s Chequers meeting of the Brexit cabinet.
Tony Blair will use a speech in Brussels on Friday to urge EU leaders to help stop Brexit by making concessions that would make the British public change their minds about leaving the EU, triggering a second referendum.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/02/28/remainers-trying-stop-brexit-proxy-war-say-boriss-allies-former/0 -
And Toyota today announced their new car will be built in the UK and engines on Deeside, North Wales, despite BrexitRichard_Tyndall said:
Yawn.Bromptonaut said:
And there’s a hard border. And no transition. And no Nissan.Richard_Tyndall said:
Nope. If we don't get a deal then there is no money. It is actually written into the agreement from December.Bromptonaut said:
How will €50bn solve the Border Problem (TM)? The payment is included in the draft legal agreement but so is the requirement for regulatory alignment.Big_G_NorthWales said:
She will solve it - 50 billion euros say soBromptonaut said:
So what? Explain how the level of popular support for TM helps her to solve the Border Problem (TM).Big_G_NorthWales said:
I would expect her to receive a boost for standing upto Barnier. The EU have made their first big mistakePulpstar said:May's stance going down well on BBC Have your say.
It’s already priced in. Have another go.0 -
He has made a big error today and TM gave him the response the Nation would expect.Foxy said:
May is rejecting what she agreed to just 2 months ago. Barnier's exasperation is fairly comprehensible.Big_G_NorthWales said:TM rejecting Barnier on Ireland is headlining the news media and they are showing her comments at PMQ's and they will be well received in the Country
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Scottish Rugby is a cancer, they assault, eye gouge, and jostle England players and coaches.
Eddie Jones, the England head coach, said on Wednesday he would never travel on public transport again after he was physically and verbally abused as he made his way back to London by train following Scotland’s Calcutta Cup victory in Edinburgh.
Jones is believed to have feared for his safety as he travelled alone on Sunday morning, firstly to Manchester. He was a guest at Old Trafford of Sir Alex Ferguson when Manchester United beat Chelsea.
British Transport Police is investigating a second incident as Jones then journeyed back to London after the football match on Sunday evening on a train full of football fans. Another passenger alerted the police, who met the train at Euston. Although no arrests were made, inquiries are continuing.
After England’s 25-13 defeat by Scotland, Jones initially posed for selfies on the 9.15am train to Manchester from Edinburgh Waverley before the atmosphere turned sour on the three-hour 11-minute journey.
Sources say that at one point Jones was “jostled”, and that the fans involved were Scottish.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2018/02/28/england-head-coach-eddie-jones-admits-feared-safety-train-attack/0 -
https://twitter.com/huwsayer/status/968947709100085253Big_G_NorthWales said:And Toyota today announced their new car will be built in the UK and engines on Deeside, North Wales, despite Brexit
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Presumably the record high interest rates set not for the regulation of employment or inflation but to shadow the German Mark. That failed effort cost UK PLC billions.williamglenn said:
By what mechanism do you think the ERM damaged millions of ordinary people?Richard_Tyndall said:
Garbage. I do love the way you prostitute yourself with any old lie to defend the EU. It is a stunning example of fanaticism.williamglenn said:
It was the Lawsom boom-bust cycle that damaged ordinary people. Blaming the ERM was just a nice propaganda trick.Richard_Tyndall said:
Shame he didn't consider the damage he was going to cause to millions of ordinary people when he enthusiastically signed us up to ERM then fought tooth and nail to keep us in.williamglenn said:0 -
Could you explain the difference between what Barnier published today on the Irish border and what was agreed in December? They look identical to me.Big_G_NorthWales said:
He has made a big error today and TM gave him the response the Nation would expect.Foxy said:
May is rejecting what she agreed to just 2 months ago. Barnier's exasperation is fairly comprehensible.Big_G_NorthWales said:TM rejecting Barnier on Ireland is headlining the news media and they are showing her comments at PMQ's and they will be well received in the Country
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He was explaining the deal TM made in December.Big_G_NorthWales said:He has made a big error today and TM gave him the response the Nation would expect.
The Nation did not expect her to renege0 -
Martin Baxter should be updating his rolling average any day now:
http://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/homepage.html0 -
Blair wants the EU to make concessions to keep the U.K. in? That worked really well for David Cameron.TheScreamingEagles said:Boris Johnson believes the Irish border is being used by Remainers to fight a “proxy war” to thwart Brexit as two former prime ministers raise the prospect of a second referendum.
The Foreign Secretary fears “ultra-Remainers” in Parliament and Whitehall are among those taking part in the conspiracy as Theresa May prepares to make her third major Brexit speech on Friday.
On the day that the Prime Minister vehemently rejected Brussels’ proposal for the EU Withdrawal Agreement, Sir John Major made an unprecedented attack on his fellow Conservative with a speech that accused her of “bad politics”.
He spoke less than three hours after Michel Barnier, the EU’s chief Brexit negotiator, set out Brussels’ position, which demands that Northern Ireland remains part of the EU’s customs arrangements, effectively making the province an annexe of the EU.
Some Brexit-supporting MPs fear that Theresa May will water down commitments made at last week’s Chequers meeting of the Brexit cabinet.
Tony Blair will use a speech in Brussels on Friday to urge EU leaders to help stop Brexit by making concessions that would make the British public change their minds about leaving the EU, triggering a second referendum.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/02/28/remainers-trying-stop-brexit-proxy-war-say-boriss-allies-former/
His megalomania is undimmed.0 -
A very interesting map... and not the best look for France, or India:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2013/05/15/a-fascinating-map-of-the-worlds-most-and-least-racially-tolerant-countries/0 -
Interest rates fell throughout the time we were in the ERM.Elliot said:
Presumably the record high interest rates set not for the regulation of employment or inflation but to shadow the German Mark. That failed effort cost UK PLC billions.williamglenn said:
By what mechanism do you think the ERM damaged millions of ordinary people?Richard_Tyndall said:
Garbage. I do love the way you prostitute yourself with any old lie to defend the EU. It is a stunning example of fanaticism.williamglenn said:
It was the Lawsom boom-bust cycle that damaged ordinary people. Blaming the ERM was just a nice propaganda trick.Richard_Tyndall said:
Shame he didn't consider the damage he was going to cause to millions of ordinary people when he enthusiastically signed us up to ERM then fought tooth and nail to keep us in.williamglenn said:0 -
Reading through the May response on citizens rights, she notably requires EU citizens coming during the transition abide by the £18600 income requirement to bring over spouses. I assume May is doing her best to get the biggest immigration drop among unskilled she can post transition.
A cynic would also point out that it would mean a refugee family from Syria would need all of its members to get German passports to come.0 -
A Blair speech is always good for a laugh. His interventions make Major's look vaguely in touch with public opinion....TheScreamingEagles said:Boris Johnson believes the Irish border is being used by Remainers to fight a “proxy war” to thwart Brexit as two former prime ministers raise the prospect of a second referendum.
The Foreign Secretary fears “ultra-Remainers” in Parliament and Whitehall are among those taking part in the conspiracy as Theresa May prepares to make her third major Brexit speech on Friday.
On the day that the Prime Minister vehemently rejected Brussels’ proposal for the EU Withdrawal Agreement, Sir John Major made an unprecedented attack on his fellow Conservative with a speech that accused her of “bad politics”.
He spoke less than three hours after Michel Barnier, the EU’s chief Brexit negotiator, set out Brussels’ position, which demands that Northern Ireland remains part of the EU’s customs arrangements, effectively making the province an annexe of the EU.
Some Brexit-supporting MPs fear that Theresa May will water down commitments made at last week’s Chequers meeting of the Brexit cabinet.
Tony Blair will use a speech in Brussels on Friday to urge EU leaders to help stop Brexit by making concessions that would make the British public change their minds about leaving the EU, triggering a second referendum.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/02/28/remainers-trying-stop-brexit-proxy-war-say-boriss-allies-former/0 -
Do I recall that lots of ordinary people saw their mortgage rates rocket upward as Major tried to keep Britain in the ERM?Elliot said:
Presumably the record high interest rates set not for the regulation of employment or inflation but to shadow the German Mark. That failed effort cost UK PLC billions.williamglenn said:
By what mechanism do you think the ERM damaged millions of ordinary people?Richard_Tyndall said:
Garbage. I do love the way you prostitute yourself with any old lie to defend the EU. It is a stunning example of fanaticism.williamglenn said:
It was the Lawsom boom-bust cycle that damaged ordinary people. Blaming the ERM was just a nice propaganda trick.Richard_Tyndall said:
Shame he didn't consider the damage he was going to cause to millions of ordinary people when he enthusiastically signed us up to ERM then fought tooth and nail to keep us in.williamglenn said:0 -
Nah, he’s being provocative as a tactic for sure, to wind back later. But let’s get this clear, a foreign power has today actually proposed in writing economically annexing part of our country. There are no words.Foxy said:
May is rejecting what she agreed to just 2 months ago. Barnier's exasperation is fairly comprehensible.Big_G_NorthWales said:TM rejecting Barnier on Ireland is headlining the news media and they are showing her comments at PMQ's and they will be well received in the Country
No price is too high to remove ourselves from this web, our politicians have woven us into over decades, without referring to the people for four decades.
No price.0 -
Insouciance is so 2017.Richard_Tyndall said:
Yawn.Bromptonaut said:
And there’s a hard border. And no transition. And no Nissan.Richard_Tyndall said:
Nope. If we don't get a deal then there is no money. It is actually written into the agreement from December.Bromptonaut said:
How will €50bn solve the Border Problem (TM)? The payment is included in the draft legal agreement but so is the requirement for regulatory alignment.Big_G_NorthWales said:
She will solve it - 50 billion euros say soBromptonaut said:
So what? Explain how the level of popular support for TM helps her to solve the Border Problem (TM).Big_G_NorthWales said:
I would expect her to receive a boost for standing upto Barnier. The EU have made their first big mistakePulpstar said:May's stance going down well on BBC Have your say.
It’s already priced in. Have another go.
It’s all going so well.Big_G_NorthWales said:
And Toyota today announced their new car will be built in the UK and engines on Deeside, North Wales, despite BrexitRichard_Tyndall said:
Yawn.Bromptonaut said:
And there’s a hard border. And no transition. And no Nissan.Richard_Tyndall said:
Nope. If we don't get a deal then there is no money. It is actually written into the agreement from December.Bromptonaut said:
How will €50bn solve the Border Problem (TM)? The payment is included in the draft legal agreement but so is the requirement for regulatory alignment.Big_G_NorthWales said:
She will solve it - 50 billion euros say soBromptonaut said:
So what? Explain how the level of popular support for TM helps her to solve the Border Problem (TM).Big_G_NorthWales said:
I would expect her to receive a boost for standing upto Barnier. The EU have made their first big mistakePulpstar said:May's stance going down well on BBC Have your say.
It’s already priced in. Have another go.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-02-16/layoffs-arrive-in-brexit-britain-and-auto-workers-are-up-first
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Is Blair the leading Pacific Island Remainer, not evidently accepting that the referendum has already happened....and that his side lost?RoyalBlue said:
Blair wants the EU to make concessions to keep the U.K. in? That worked really well for David Cameron.TheScreamingEagles said:Boris Johnson believes the Irish border is being used by Remainers to fight a “proxy war” to thwart Brexit as two former prime ministers raise the prospect of a second referendum.
The Foreign Secretary fears “ultra-Remainers” in Parliament and Whitehall are among those taking part in the conspiracy as Theresa May prepares to make her third major Brexit speech on Friday.
On the day that the Prime Minister vehemently rejected Brussels’ proposal for the EU Withdrawal Agreement, Sir John Major made an unprecedented attack on his fellow Conservative with a speech that accused her of “bad politics”.
He spoke less than three hours after Michel Barnier, the EU’s chief Brexit negotiator, set out Brussels’ position, which demands that Northern Ireland remains part of the EU’s customs arrangements, effectively making the province an annexe of the EU.
Some Brexit-supporting MPs fear that Theresa May will water down commitments made at last week’s Chequers meeting of the Brexit cabinet.
Tony Blair will use a speech in Brussels on Friday to urge EU leaders to help stop Brexit by making concessions that would make the British public change their minds about leaving the EU, triggering a second referendum.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/02/28/remainers-trying-stop-brexit-proxy-war-say-boriss-allies-former/
His megalomania is undimmed.0 -
Membership of the ERM forced us to keep interest rates higher than they should have been. It caused a housing slump in the early 90s and a recession. If we had been outside the ERM we would have let the value of Sterling drop as it needed to. As soon as we left the ERM things began to improve again with Sterling at a more competitive price.williamglenn said:
By what mechanism do you think the ERM damaged millions of ordinary people?Richard_Tyndall said:
Garbage. I do love the way you prostitute yourself with any old lie to defend the EU. It is a stunning example of fanaticism.williamglenn said:
It was the Lawsom boom-bust cycle that damaged ordinary people. Blaming the ERM was just a nice propaganda trick.Richard_Tyndall said:
Shame he didn't consider the damage he was going to cause to millions of ordinary people when he enthusiastically signed us up to ERM then fought tooth and nail to keep us in.williamglenn said:
0 -
They went up from 10% to 15% on the same day due to the ERM. Are you now trying to claim that membership of the ERM was good for Britain?williamglenn said:
Interest rates fell throughout the time we were in the ERM.Elliot said:
Presumably the record high interest rates set not for the regulation of employment or inflation but to shadow the German Mark. That failed effort cost UK PLC billions.williamglenn said:
By what mechanism do you think the ERM damaged millions of ordinary people?Richard_Tyndall said:
Garbage. I do love the way you prostitute yourself with any old lie to defend the EU. It is a stunning example of fanaticism.williamglenn said:
It was the Lawsom boom-bust cycle that damaged ordinary people. Blaming the ERM was just a nice propaganda trick.Richard_Tyndall said:
Shame he didn't consider the damage he was going to cause to millions of ordinary people when he enthusiastically signed us up to ERM then fought tooth and nail to keep us in.williamglenn said:0 -
Umm, let's get this clear.welshowl said:But let’s get this clear, a foreign power has today actually proposed in writing economically annexing part of our country. There are no words.
No price is too high to remove ourselves from this web, our politicians have woven us into over decades, without referring to the people for four decades.
No price.
Annexing part of our Country is the price Brexiteers are willing to pay for their fevered dream.
Bastards.0 -
You never go full Remoaner.Theuniondivvie said:Fck me.
https://twitter.com/NadineDorries/status/968966724497346560
Never go full Nadine.0 -
Yes but how is that different to what was agreed in December?welshowl said:
Nah, he’s being provocative as a tactic for sure, to wind back later. But let’s get this clear, a foreign power has today actually proposed in writing economically annexing part of our country. There are no words.Foxy said:
May is rejecting what she agreed to just 2 months ago. Barnier's exasperation is fairly comprehensible.Big_G_NorthWales said:TM rejecting Barnier on Ireland is headlining the news media and they are showing her comments at PMQ's and they will be well received in the Country
No price is too high to remove ourselves from this web, our politicians have woven us into over decades, without referring to the people for four decades.
No price.
Did May not understand what she agreed then? or has she just reneged on the agreement?0 -
You might recall it, but it didn't happen.steve_garner said:
Do I recall that lots of ordinary people saw their mortgage rates rocket upward as Major tried to keep Britain in the ERM?Elliot said:
Presumably the record high interest rates set not for the regulation of employment or inflation but to shadow the German Mark. That failed effort cost UK PLC billions.williamglenn said:
By what mechanism do you think the ERM damaged millions of ordinary people?Richard_Tyndall said:
Garbage. I do love the way you prostitute yourself with any old lie to defend the EU. It is a stunning example of fanaticism.williamglenn said:
It was the Lawsom boom-bust cycle that damaged ordinary people. Blaming the ERM was just a nice propaganda trick.Richard_Tyndall said:
Shame he didn't consider the damage he was going to cause to millions of ordinary people when he enthusiastically signed us up to ERM then fought tooth and nail to keep us in.williamglenn said:
0 -
Nadine Dorries lecturing others on treachery towards a Tory PM, oh my irony meter died.Theuniondivvie said:Fck me.
https://twitter.com/NadineDorries/status/968966724497346560
Never go full Nadine.
The sooner she fucks off to UKIP the better, it will increase the average IQ of both parties.0 -
No where near as much as they should have. They were kept artificially high and damaged the economy specifically to keep us in the ERM.williamglenn said:
Interest rates fell throughout the time we were in the ERM.Elliot said:
Presumably the record high interest rates set not for the regulation of employment or inflation but to shadow the German Mark. That failed effort cost UK PLC billions.williamglenn said:
By what mechanism do you think the ERM damaged millions of ordinary people?Richard_Tyndall said:
Garbage. I do love the way you prostitute yourself with any old lie to defend the EU. It is a stunning example of fanaticism.williamglenn said:
It was the Lawsom boom-bust cycle that damaged ordinary people. Blaming the ERM was just a nice propaganda trick.Richard_Tyndall said:
Shame he didn't consider the damage he was going to cause to millions of ordinary people when he enthusiastically signed us up to ERM then fought tooth and nail to keep us in.williamglenn said:0 -
Ironically he might have a point, inadvertently. It probably forewarned us of the dangers of the Euro as we’d had a taster so to speak.steve_garner said:
They went up from 10% to 15% on the same day due to the ERM. Are you now trying to claim that membership of the ERM was good for Britain?williamglenn said:
Interest rates fell throughout the time we were in the ERM.Elliot said:
Presumably the record high interest rates set not for the regulation of employment or inflation but to shadow the German Mark. That failed effort cost UK PLC billions.williamglenn said:
By what mechanism do you think the ERM damaged millions of ordinary people?Richard_Tyndall said:
Garbage. I do love the way you prostitute yourself with any old lie to defend the EU. It is a stunning example of fanaticism.williamglenn said:
It was the Lawsom boom-bust cycle that damaged ordinary people. Blaming the ERM was just a nice propaganda trick.Richard_Tyndall said:
Shame he didn't consider the damage he was going to cause to millions of ordinary people when he enthusiastically signed us up to ERM then fought tooth and nail to keep us in.williamglenn said:0 -
No price? Are you really sure?welshowl said:
Nah, he’s being provocative as a tactic for sure, to wind back later. But let’s get this clear, a foreign power has today actually proposed in writing economically annexing part of our country. There are no words.Foxy said:
May is rejecting what she agreed to just 2 months ago. Barnier's exasperation is fairly comprehensible.Big_G_NorthWales said:TM rejecting Barnier on Ireland is headlining the news media and they are showing her comments at PMQ's and they will be well received in the Country
No price is too high to remove ourselves from this web, our politicians have woven us into over decades, without referring to the people for four decades.
No price.0 -
They didn't because we left the ERM so the raise was never applied. Interest rates fell.steve_garner said:
They went up from 10% to 15% on the same day due to the ERM. Are you now trying to claim that membership of the ERM was good for Britain?williamglenn said:
Interest rates fell throughout the time we were in the ERM.Elliot said:
Presumably the record high interest rates set not for the regulation of employment or inflation but to shadow the German Mark. That failed effort cost UK PLC billions.williamglenn said:
By what mechanism do you think the ERM damaged millions of ordinary people?Richard_Tyndall said:
Garbage. I do love the way you prostitute yourself with any old lie to defend the EU. It is a stunning example of fanaticism.williamglenn said:
It was the Lawsom boom-bust cycle that damaged ordinary people. Blaming the ERM was just a nice propaganda trick.Richard_Tyndall said:
Shame he didn't consider the damage he was going to cause to millions of ordinary people when he enthusiastically signed us up to ERM then fought tooth and nail to keep us in.williamglenn said:0 -
We successfully brought inflation under control and laid the ground for the golden legacy that Labour inherited in 1997 with a balanced, low-debt economy.Richard_Tyndall said:
No where near as much as they should have. They were kept artificially high and damaged the economy specifically to keep us in the ERM.williamglenn said:
Interest rates fell throughout the time we were in the ERM.Elliot said:
Presumably the record high interest rates set not for the regulation of employment or inflation but to shadow the German Mark. That failed effort cost UK PLC billions.williamglenn said:
By what mechanism do you think the ERM damaged millions of ordinary people?Richard_Tyndall said:
Garbage. I do love the way you prostitute yourself with any old lie to defend the EU. It is a stunning example of fanaticism.williamglenn said:
It was the Lawsom boom-bust cycle that damaged ordinary people. Blaming the ERM was just a nice propaganda trick.Richard_Tyndall said:
Shame he didn't consider the damage he was going to cause to millions of ordinary people when he enthusiastically signed us up to ERM then fought tooth and nail to keep us in.williamglenn said:0 -
So, leaving the ERM prevented a massive rise.williamglenn said:
They didn't because we left the ERM so the raise was never applied. Interest rates fell.steve_garner said:
They went up from 10% to 15% on the same day due to the ERM. Are you now trying to claim that membership of the ERM was good for Britain?williamglenn said:
Interest rates fell throughout the time we were in the ERM.Elliot said:
Presumably the record high interest rates set not for the regulation of employment or inflation but to shadow the German Mark. That failed effort cost UK PLC billions.williamglenn said:
By what mechanism do you think the ERM damaged millions of ordinary people?Richard_Tyndall said:
Garbage. I do love the way you prostitute yourself with any old lie to defend the EU. It is a stunning example of fanaticism.williamglenn said:
It was the Lawsom boom-bust cycle that damaged ordinary people. Blaming the ERM was just a nice propaganda trick.Richard_Tyndall said:
Shame he didn't consider the damage he was going to cause to millions of ordinary people when he enthusiastically signed us up to ERM then fought tooth and nail to keep us in.williamglenn said:0 -
The interest rate started the day at 10% and ended it at 12%, as you know only too well. A day of shock and worry for millions of homeowners with mortgages. I know, I worked in mortgages at the time.williamglenn said:
They didn't because we left the ERM so the raise was never applied. Interest rates fell.steve_garner said:
They went up from 10% to 15% on the same day due to the ERM. Are you now trying to claim that membership of the ERM was good for Britain?williamglenn said:
Interest rates fell throughout the time we were in the ERM.Elliot said:
Presumably the record high interest rates set not for the regulation of employment or inflation but to shadow the German Mark. That failed effort cost UK PLC billions.williamglenn said:
By what mechanism do you think the ERM damaged millions of ordinary people?Richard_Tyndall said:
Garbage. I do love the way you prostitute yourself with any old lie to defend the EU. It is a stunning example of fanaticism.williamglenn said:
It was the Lawsom boom-bust cycle that damaged ordinary people. Blaming the ERM was just a nice propaganda trick.Richard_Tyndall said:
Shame he didn't consider the damage he was going to cause to millions of ordinary people when he enthusiastically signed us up to ERM then fought tooth and nail to keep us in.williamglenn said:0 -
The EU are making zero effort to sweeten any pill or present things in a sellable way. Today has been a PR huge own goal for them. They can’t help themselves.Foxy said:
Yes but how is that different to what was agreed in December?welshowl said:
Nah, he’s being provocative as a tactic for sure, to wind back later. But let’s get this clear, a foreign power has today actually proposed in writing economically annexing part of our country. There are no words.Foxy said:
May is rejecting what she agreed to just 2 months ago. Barnier's exasperation is fairly comprehensible.Big_G_NorthWales said:TM rejecting Barnier on Ireland is headlining the news media and they are showing her comments at PMQ's and they will be well received in the Country
No price is too high to remove ourselves from this web, our politicians have woven us into over decades, without referring to the people for four decades.
No price.
Did May not understand what she agreed then? or has she just reneged on the agreement?0 -
Johnson is an absolute numpty, can the idiot even tie his own shoelaces. To think pour future is down to this moron and other similar numpties.TheScreamingEagles said:Boris Johnson believes the Irish border is being used by Remainers to fight a “proxy war” to thwart Brexit as two former prime ministers raise the prospect of a second referendum.
The Foreign Secretary fears “ultra-Remainers” in Parliament and Whitehall are among those taking part in the conspiracy as Theresa May prepares to make her third major Brexit speech on Friday.
On the day that the Prime Minister vehemently rejected Brussels’ proposal for the EU Withdrawal Agreement, Sir John Major made an unprecedented attack on his fellow Conservative with a speech that accused her of “bad politics”.
He spoke less than three hours after Michel Barnier, the EU’s chief Brexit negotiator, set out Brussels’ position, which demands that Northern Ireland remains part of the EU’s customs arrangements, effectively making the province an annexe of the EU.
Some Brexit-supporting MPs fear that Theresa May will water down commitments made at last week’s Chequers meeting of the Brexit cabinet.
Tony Blair will use a speech in Brussels on Friday to urge EU leaders to help stop Brexit by making concessions that would make the British public change their minds about leaving the EU, triggering a second referendum.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/02/28/remainers-trying-stop-brexit-proxy-war-say-boriss-allies-former/0 -
I suppose 'tin-earred' is the default setting when you don't have to worry about an electorate...welshowl said:
The EU are making zero effort to sweeten any pill or present things in a sellable way. Today has been a PR huge own goal for them. They can’t help themselves.Foxy said:
Yes but how is that different to what was agreed in December?welshowl said:
Nah, he’s being provocative as a tactic for sure, to wind back later. But let’s get this clear, a foreign power has today actually proposed in writing economically annexing part of our country. There are no words.Foxy said:
May is rejecting what she agreed to just 2 months ago. Barnier's exasperation is fairly comprehensible.Big_G_NorthWales said:TM rejecting Barnier on Ireland is headlining the news media and they are showing her comments at PMQ's and they will be well received in the Country
No price is too high to remove ourselves from this web, our politicians have woven us into over decades, without referring to the people for four decades.
No price.
Did May not understand what she agreed then? or has she just reneged on the agreement?0 -
Yes. I thought long about that. It’s existential to our independence and democracy.Recidivist said:
No price? Are you really sure?welshowl said:
Nah, he’s being provocative as a tactic for sure, to wind back later. But let’s get this clear, a foreign power has today actually proposed in writing economically annexing part of our country. There are no words.Foxy said:
May is rejecting what she agreed to just 2 months ago. Barnier's exasperation is fairly comprehensible.Big_G_NorthWales said:TM rejecting Barnier on Ireland is headlining the news media and they are showing her comments at PMQ's and they will be well received in the Country
No price is too high to remove ourselves from this web, our politicians have woven us into over decades, without referring to the people for four decades.
No price.
So, yes. I am certain of that I am afraid.0 -
This is the sort of comment that causes EU backers to lose such credibility. It is so obviously a wilful deception. Anyone with even remedial knowledge of the UK's exit from the ERM knows full well interest rates spiked massively to keep up with the Mark. The fact they previously swang downwards wildly when the Mark was weaker, fuelling the housing bubble to begin with, strengthens the anti-ERM case. The point is rates should be set for the UK economy, not to try to follow exchange rate volatility.williamglenn said:
Interest rates fell throughout the time we were in the ERM.Elliot said:
Presumably the record high interest rates set not for the regulation of employment or inflation but to shadow the German Mark. That failed effort cost UK PLC billions.williamglenn said:
By what mechanism do you think the ERM damaged millions of ordinary people?Richard_Tyndall said:
Garbage. I do love the way you prostitute yourself with any old lie to defend the EU. It is a stunning example of fanaticism.williamglenn said:
It was the Lawsom boom-bust cycle that damaged ordinary people. Blaming the ERM was just a nice propaganda trick.Richard_Tyndall said:
Shame he didn't consider the damage he was going to cause to millions of ordinary people when he enthusiastically signed us up to ERM then fought tooth and nail to keep us in.williamglenn said:0 -
When rates go back up to anything like historical rates, there are going to be a lot of very squeezed consumers.williamglenn said:
You might recall it, but it didn't happen.steve_garner said:
Do I recall that lots of ordinary people saw their mortgage rates rocket upward as Major tried to keep Britain in the ERM?Elliot said:
Presumably the record high interest rates set not for the regulation of employment or inflation but to shadow the German Mark. That failed effort cost UK PLC billions.williamglenn said:
By what mechanism do you think the ERM damaged millions of ordinary people?Richard_Tyndall said:
Garbage. I do love the way you prostitute yourself with any old lie to defend the EU. It is a stunning example of fanaticism.williamglenn said:
It was the Lawsom boom-bust cycle that damaged ordinary people. Blaming the ERM was just a nice propaganda trick.Richard_Tyndall said:
Shame he didn't consider the damage he was going to cause to millions of ordinary people when he enthusiastically signed us up to ERM then fought tooth and nail to keep us in.williamglenn said:0 -
The eye gouge claim is rubbish and should be thrown out. Hughes had the Scottish player pinned to the ground by the neck with all his body weight on him. He was just trying to stop him killing him.TheScreamingEagles said:Scottish Rugby is a cancer, they assault, eye gouge, and jostle England players and coaches.
Eddie Jones, the England head coach, said on Wednesday he would never travel on public transport again after he was physically and verbally abused as he made his way back to London by train following Scotland’s Calcutta Cup victory in Edinburgh.
Jones is believed to have feared for his safety as he travelled alone on Sunday morning, firstly to Manchester. He was a guest at Old Trafford of Sir Alex Ferguson when Manchester United beat Chelsea.
British Transport Police is investigating a second incident as Jones then journeyed back to London after the football match on Sunday evening on a train full of football fans. Another passenger alerted the police, who met the train at Euston. Although no arrests were made, inquiries are continuing.
After England’s 25-13 defeat by Scotland, Jones initially posed for selfies on the 9.15am train to Manchester from Edinburgh Waverley before the atmosphere turned sour on the three-hour 11-minute journey.
Sources say that at one point Jones was “jostled”, and that the fans involved were Scottish.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2018/02/28/england-head-coach-eddie-jones-admits-feared-safety-train-attack/
Hughes is the one who should have the charge against him for dangerous play. And I say that as an England supporter.0 -
You do seem upset. Still, you mustn't blame yourself; it's not as if you sat on your arse being a berk on the internet throughout the referendum campaign. No, sirree: someone with your crystal clear understanding of the looming disaster must have been out on the doorsteps 24/7 for months, putting the case to the voters.Scott_P said:
Umm, let's get this clear.welshowl said:But let’s get this clear, a foreign power has today actually proposed in writing economically annexing part of our country. There are no words.
No price is too high to remove ourselves from this web, our politicians have woven us into over decades, without referring to the people for four decades.
No price.
Annexing part of our Country is the price Brexiteers are willing to pay for their fevered dream.
Bastards.0 -
But she's already in the same party as the current leader of CONKIP- Mr Jacob Rees-MoggTheScreamingEagles said:
Nadine Dorries lecturing others on treachery towards a Tory PM, oh my irony meter died.Theuniondivvie said:Fck me.
https://twitter.com/NadineDorries/status/968966724497346560
Never go full Nadine.
The sooner she fucks off to UKIP the better, it will increase the average IQ of both parties.0 -
-
what a nation of big girls blouses , one defeat and they are whinging and crying like big babies. Can they never learn how to take a thumping.TheScreamingEagles said:Scottish Rugby is a cancer, they assault, eye gouge, and jostle England players and coaches.
Eddie Jones, the England head coach, said on Wednesday he would never travel on public transport again after he was physically and verbally abused as he made his way back to London by train following Scotland’s Calcutta Cup victory in Edinburgh.
Jones is believed to have feared for his safety as he travelled alone on Sunday morning, firstly to Manchester. He was a guest at Old Trafford of Sir Alex Ferguson when Manchester United beat Chelsea.
British Transport Police is investigating a second incident as Jones then journeyed back to London after the football match on Sunday evening on a train full of football fans. Another passenger alerted the police, who met the train at Euston. Although no arrests were made, inquiries are continuing.
After England’s 25-13 defeat by Scotland, Jones initially posed for selfies on the 9.15am train to Manchester from Edinburgh Waverley before the atmosphere turned sour on the three-hour 11-minute journey.
Sources say that at one point Jones was “jostled”, and that the fans involved were Scottish.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2018/02/28/england-head-coach-eddie-jones-admits-feared-safety-train-attack/0 -
May agreed to regulatory equivalence in select areas covered by the GFA, not Northern Ireland staying in the customs union.Foxy said:
Yes but how is that different to what was agreed in December?welshowl said:
Nah, he’s being provocative as a tactic for sure, to wind back later. But let’s get this clear, a foreign power has today actually proposed in writing economically annexing part of our country. There are no words.Foxy said:
May is rejecting what she agreed to just 2 months ago. Barnier's exasperation is fairly comprehensible.Big_G_NorthWales said:TM rejecting Barnier on Ireland is headlining the news media and they are showing her comments at PMQ's and they will be well received in the Country
No price is too high to remove ourselves from this web, our politicians have woven us into over decades, without referring to the people for four decades.
No price.
Did May not understand what she agreed then? or has she just reneged on the agreement?0 -
It is a pity that our own government has been too lazy/incompetent/conflicted to publish our interpretation.welshowl said:
The EU are making zero effort to sweeten any pill or present things in a sellable way. Today has been a PR huge own goal for them. They can’t help themselves.Foxy said:
Yes but how is that different to what was agreed in December?welshowl said:
Nah, he’s being provocative as a tactic for sure, to wind back later. But let’s get this clear, a foreign power has today actually proposed in writing economically annexing part of our country. There are no words.Foxy said:
May is rejecting what she agreed to just 2 months ago. Barnier's exasperation is fairly comprehensible.Big_G_NorthWales said:TM rejecting Barnier on Ireland is headlining the news media and they are showing her comments at PMQ's and they will be well received in the Country
No price is too high to remove ourselves from this web, our politicians have woven us into over decades, without referring to the people for four decades.
No price.
Did May not understand what she agreed then? or has she just reneged on the agreement?
But while you may not like the tone, what is the difference in content to the December agreement?0 -
Only by leaving the ERM and regaining control of our economic policy. It was membership of the ERM that caused much of the damage in the first place.williamglenn said:
We successfully brought inflation under control and laid the ground for the golden legacy that Labour inherited in 1997 with a balanced, low-debt economy.Richard_Tyndall said:
No where near as much as they should have. They were kept artificially high and damaged the economy specifically to keep us in the ERM.williamglenn said:
Interest rates fell throughout the time we were in the ERM.Elliot said:
Presumably the record high interest rates set not for the regulation of employment or inflation but to shadow the German Mark. That failed effort cost UK PLC billions.williamglenn said:
By what mechanism do you think the ERM damaged millions of ordinary people?Richard_Tyndall said:
Garbage. I do love the way you prostitute yourself with any old lie to defend the EU. It is a stunning example of fanaticism.williamglenn said:
It was the Lawsom boom-bust cycle that damaged ordinary people. Blaming the ERM was just a nice propaganda trick.Richard_Tyndall said:
Shame he didn't consider the damage he was going to cause to millions of ordinary people when he enthusiastically signed us up to ERM then fought tooth and nail to keep us in.williamglenn said:0 -
unfortunately no-one will believe her Big G.Big_G_NorthWales said:TM rejecting Barnier on Ireland is headlining the news media and they are showing her comments at PMQ's and they will be well received in the Country
0 -
No.Scott_P said:
Umm, let's get this clear.welshowl said:But let’s get this clear, a foreign power has today actually proposed in writing economically annexing part of our country. There are no words.
No price is too high to remove ourselves from this web, our politicians have woven us into over decades, without referring to the people for four decades.
No price.
Annexing part of our Country is the price Brexiteers are willing to pay for their fevered dream.
Bastards.
I for one don't see what the big deal is with potentially having customs checks as required on an international border. There are hundreds of international land borders across the world.
We should try and minimise and avoid them if possible but we have no reason to compromise our own nation to do so.0 -
Tone is all in this, and the odd Nelsonian blind eye here and there. We need fudge from both sides. We’re getting seaside rock. We are not innocent but the EU certainly aren’t and Varadkar is being a pratt who may end up engineering exactly what he doesn’t want.Foxy said:
It is a pity that our own government has been too lazy/incompetent/conflicted to publish our interpretation.welshowl said:
The EU are making zero effort to sweeten any pill or present things in a sellable way. Today has been a PR huge own goal for them. They can’t help themselves.Foxy said:
Yes but how is that different to what was agreed in December?welshowl said:
Nah, he’s being provocative as a tactic for sure, to wind back later. But let’s get this clear, a foreign power has today actually proposed in writing economically annexing part of our country. There are no words.Foxy said:
May is rejecting what she agreed to just 2 months ago. Barnier's exasperation is fairly comprehensible.Big_G_NorthWales said:TM rejecting Barnier on Ireland is headlining the news media and they are showing her comments at PMQ's and they will be well received in the Country
No price is too high to remove ourselves from this web, our politicians have woven us into over decades, without referring to the people for four decades.
No price.
Did May not understand what she agreed then? or has she just reneged on the agreement?
But while you may not like the tone, what is the difference in content to the December agreement?0 -
It's generally the best approach in a negotiation to get the other side to offer first. Barnier had been talented at forcing the UK to do this for much of the first stage, but now has had to buckle this time round. I imagine it's a result of pressure from national governments who have felt him be too hard line to date.Foxy said:
It is a pity that our own government has been too lazy/incompetent/conflicted to publish our interpretation.welshowl said:
The EU are making zero effort to sweeten any pill or present things in a sellable way. Today has been a PR huge own goal for them. They can’t help themselves.Foxy said:
Yes but how is that different to what was agreed in December?welshowl said:
Nah, he’s being provocative as a tactic for sure, to wind back later. But let’s get this clear, a foreign power has today actually proposed in writing economically annexing part of our country. There are no words.Foxy said:
May is rejecting what she agreed to just 2 months ago. Barnier's exasperation is fairly comprehensible.Big_G_NorthWales said:TM rejecting Barnier on Ireland is headlining the news media and they are showing her comments at PMQ's and they will be well received in the Country
No price is too high to remove ourselves from this web, our politicians have woven us into over decades, without referring to the people for four decades.
No price.
Did May not understand what she agreed then? or has she just reneged on the agreement?
But while you may not like the tone, what is the difference in content to the December agreement?0 -
Richard, yes very bad form, what happened to dignity when losing. These guys have feet of clay, unable to accept they got done over by a better team on the day. They are heading for English football type territory.Richard_Tyndall said:
The eye gouge claim is rubbish and should be thrown out. Hughes had the Scottish player pinned to the ground by the neck with all his body weight on him. He was just trying to stop him killing him.TheScreamingEagles said:Scottish Rugby is a cancer, they assault, eye gouge, and jostle England players and coaches.
Eddie Jones, the England head coach, said on Wednesday he would never travel on public transport again after he was physically and verbally abused as he made his way back to London by train following Scotland’s Calcutta Cup victory in Edinburgh.
Jones is believed to have feared for his safety as he travelled alone on Sunday morning, firstly to Manchester. He was a guest at Old Trafford of Sir Alex Ferguson when Manchester United beat Chelsea.
British Transport Police is investigating a second incident as Jones then journeyed back to London after the football match on Sunday evening on a train full of football fans. Another passenger alerted the police, who met the train at Euston. Although no arrests were made, inquiries are continuing.
After England’s 25-13 defeat by Scotland, Jones initially posed for selfies on the 9.15am train to Manchester from Edinburgh Waverley before the atmosphere turned sour on the three-hour 11-minute journey.
Sources say that at one point Jones was “jostled”, and that the fans involved were Scottish.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2018/02/28/england-head-coach-eddie-jones-admits-feared-safety-train-attack/
Hughes is the one who should have the charge against him for dangerous play. And I say that as an England supporter.0 -
Would that regulatory equivalence apply to all of the UK? or would it differ between islands?Elliot said:
May agreed to regulatory equivalence in select areas covered by the GFA, not Northern Ireland staying in the customs union.Foxy said:
Yes but how is that different to what was agreed in December?welshowl said:
Nah, he’s being provocative as a tactic for sure, to wind back later. But let’s get this clear, a foreign power has today actually proposed in writing economically annexing part of our country. There are no words.Foxy said:
May is rejecting what she agreed to just 2 months ago. Barnier's exasperation is fairly comprehensible.Big_G_NorthWales said:TM rejecting Barnier on Ireland is headlining the news media and they are showing her comments at PMQ's and they will be well received in the Country
No price is too high to remove ourselves from this web, our politicians have woven us into over decades, without referring to the people for four decades.
No price.
Did May not understand what she agreed then? or has she just reneged on the agreement?
How would that regulatory equivalence be managed? Would the ECJ have a role?0 -
I didn't either. But how hard is it to understand that a two-sided contest which is won by one side, is also lost by the other? And the more you proclaim it a disaster now, the bigger the question: why tf did you do nothing about it when you had the chance? You don't need a licence, or any special talent, to go canvassing.Scott_P said:0 -
Not true. The peak of interest rates was 89-90 before we joined the ERM. That was also the peak in real terms house prices. The boom-bust cycle that people remember was before the ERM period. Unfortunately because a lot of the subsequent economic pain coincided with being in the ERM, people blame the wrong target.Richard_Tyndall said:
Only by leaving the ERM and regaining control of our economic policy. It was membership of the ERM that caused much of the damage in the first place.williamglenn said:
We successfully brought inflation under control and laid the ground for the golden legacy that Labour inherited in 1997 with a balanced, low-debt economy.Richard_Tyndall said:
No where near as much as they should have. They were kept artificially high and damaged the economy specifically to keep us in the ERM.williamglenn said:
Interest rates fell throughout the time we were in the ERM.Elliot said:
Presumably the record high interest rates set not for the regulation of employment or inflation but to shadow the German Mark. That failed effort cost UK PLC billions.williamglenn said:
By what mechanism do you think the ERM damaged millions of ordinary people?Richard_Tyndall said:
Garbage. I do love the way you prostitute yourself with any old lie to defend the EU. It is a stunning example of fanaticism.williamglenn said:
It was the Lawsom boom-bust cycle that damaged ordinary people. Blaming the ERM was just a nice propaganda trick.Richard_Tyndall said:
Shame he didn't consider the damage he was going to cause to millions of ordinary people when he enthusiastically signed us up to ERM then fought tooth and nail to keep us in.williamglenn said:0 -
People are entitled to point out hypocrisy when they see it.AlastairMeeks said:The Two Minute Hate against Sir John Major has been extended to Eight Hours and counting. It seems only Leavers are entitled to opinions - appropriately, the snowflakes have fallen in vast quantities today.
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Why should the EU care about UK public opinion?welshowl said:
The EU are making zero effort to sweeten any pill or present things in a sellable way. Today has been a PR huge own goal for them. They can’t help themselves.Foxy said:
Yes but how is that different to what was agreed in December?welshowl said:
Nah, he’s being provocative as a tactic for sure, to wind back later. But let’s get this clear, a foreign power has today actually proposed in writing economically annexing part of our country. There are no words.Foxy said:
May is rejecting what she agreed to just 2 months ago. Barnier's exasperation is fairly comprehensible.Big_G_NorthWales said:TM rejecting Barnier on Ireland is headlining the news media and they are showing her comments at PMQ's and they will be well received in the Country
No price is too high to remove ourselves from this web, our politicians have woven us into over decades, without referring to the people for four decades.
No price.
Did May not understand what she agreed then? or has she just reneged on the agreement?0 -
Very hard, for some, it would seem.Ishmael_Z said:
I didn't either. But how hard is it to understand that a two-sided contest which is won by one side, is also lost by the other? And the more you proclaim it a disaster now, the bigger the question: why tf did you do nothing about it when you had the chance? You don't need a licence, or any special talent, to go canvassing.Scott_P said:0 -
I don't get it. On what issue has Barnier buckled?Elliot said:
It's generally the best approach in a negotiation to get the other side to offer first. Barnier had been talented at forcing the UK to do this for much of the first stage, but now has had to buckle this time round. I imagine it's a result of pressure from national governments who have felt him be too hard line to date.Foxy said:
It is a pity that our own government has been too lazy/incompetent/conflicted to publish our interpretation.welshowl said:
The EU are making zero effort to sweeten any pill or present things in a sellable way. Today has been a PR huge own goal for them. They can’t help themselves.Foxy said:
Yes but how is that different to what was agreed in December?welshowl said:
Nah, he’s being provocative as a tactic for sure, to wind back later. But let’s get this clear, a foreign power has today actually proposed in writing economically annexing part of our country. There are no words.Foxy said:
May is rejecting what she agreed to just 2 months ago. Barnier's exasperation is fairly comprehensible.Big_G_NorthWales said:TM rejecting Barnier on Ireland is headlining the news media and they are showing her comments at PMQ's and they will be well received in the Country
No price is too high to remove ourselves from this web, our politicians have woven us into over decades, without referring to the people for four decades.
No price.
Did May not understand what she agreed then? or has she just reneged on the agreement?
But while you may not like the tone, what is the difference in content to the December agreement?0 -
To be fair interest rates didn't increase because of Black Wednesday as we left the ERM.steve_garner said:
Do I recall that lots of ordinary people saw their mortgage rates rocket upward as Major tried to keep Britain in the ERM?Elliot said:
Presumably the record high interest rates set not for the regulation of employment or inflation but to shadow the German Mark. That failed effort cost UK PLC billions.williamglenn said:
By what mechanism do you think the ERM damaged millions of ordinary people?Richard_Tyndall said:
Garbage. I do love the way you prostitute yourself with any old lie to defend the EU. It is a stunning example of fanaticism.williamglenn said:
It was the Lawsom boom-bust cycle that damaged ordinary people. Blaming the ERM was just a nice propaganda trick.Richard_Tyndall said:
Shame he didn't consider the damage he was going to cause to millions of ordinary people when he enthusiastically signed us up to ERM then fought tooth and nail to keep us in.williamglenn said:
But Major was clearly willing to increase interest rates if that had managed to maintain ERM membership. That after all had been the reason why interest rates were increased first to 12% and then to 15% in a single day.
After leaving the ERM interest rates fell by 4% within a few months IIRC.
So the alternatives were:
ERM membership, 12%+ interest rates and an over valued currency - Major's prefered choice
Leaving the ERM, 6% interest rates and a competitive currency - the imposed reality
Needless to say that the Conservative party's economic reputation went down the toilet because Major tried to follow the wrong option.0 -
Yes, there was a huge spike from 1987 onwards. Rapid rises like that should never happen if you are focusing on maintaining a healthy national economy, but the altar of European integration demanded we enter recession to shadow the Mark.williamglenn said:
You might recall it, but it didn't happen.steve_garner said:
Do I recall that lots of ordinary people saw their mortgage rates rocket upward as Major tried to keep Britain in the ERM?Elliot said:
Presumably the record high interest rates set not for the regulation of employment or inflation but to shadow the German Mark. That failed effort cost UK PLC billions.williamglenn said:
By what mechanism do you think the ERM damaged millions of ordinary people?Richard_Tyndall said:
Garbage. I do love the way you prostitute yourself with any old lie to defend the EU. It is a stunning example of fanaticism.williamglenn said:
It was the Lawsom boom-bust cycle that damaged ordinary people. Blaming the ERM was just a nice propaganda trick.Richard_Tyndall said:
Shame he didn't consider the damage he was going to cause to millions of ordinary people when he enthusiastically signed us up to ERM then fought tooth and nail to keep us in.williamglenn said:0 -
Europe is clearly a blind spot; luckily the current Tory leadership is more in tune with public opinion.another_richard said:
To be fair interest rates didn't increase because of Black Wednesday as we left the ERM.steve_garner said:
Do I recall that lots of ordinary people saw their mortgage rates rocket upward as Major tried to keep Britain in the ERM?Elliot said:
Presumably the record high interest rates set not for the regulation of employment or inflation but to shadow the German Mark. That failed effort cost UK PLC billions.williamglenn said:
By what mechanism do you think the ERM damaged millions of ordinary people?Richard_Tyndall said:
Garbage. I do love the way you prostitute yourself with any old lie to defend the EU. It is a stunning example of fanaticism.williamglenn said:
It was the Lawsom boom-bust cycle that damaged ordinary people. Blaming the ERM was just a nice propaganda trick.Richard_Tyndall said:
Shame he didn't consider the damage he was going to cause to millions of ordinary people when he enthusiastically signed us up to ERM then fought tooth and nail to keep us in.williamglenn said:
But Major was clearly willing to increase interest rates if that had managed to maintain ERM membership. That after all had been the reason why interest rates were increased first to 12% and then to 15% in a single day.
After leaving the ERM interest rates fell by 4% within a few months IIRC.
So the alternatives were:
ERM membership, 12%+ interest rates and an over valued currency - Major's prefered choice
Leaving the ERM, 6% interest rates and a competitive currency - the imposed reality
Needless to say that the Conservative party's economic reputation went down the toilet because Major tried to follow the wrong option.0 -
We entered the ERM in October 1990.Elliot said:
Yes, there was a huge spike from 1987 onwards. Rapid rises like that should never happen if you are focusing on maintaining a healthy national economy, but the altar of European integration demanded we enter recession to shadow the Mark.williamglenn said:
You might recall it, but it didn't happen.steve_garner said:
Do I recall that lots of ordinary people saw their mortgage rates rocket upward as Major tried to keep Britain in the ERM?Elliot said:
Presumably the record high interest rates set not for the regulation of employment or inflation but to shadow the German Mark. That failed effort cost UK PLC billions.williamglenn said:
By what mechanism do you think the ERM damaged millions of ordinary people?Richard_Tyndall said:
Garbage. I do love the way you prostitute yourself with any old lie to defend the EU. It is a stunning example of fanaticism.williamglenn said:
It was the Lawsom boom-bust cycle that damaged ordinary people. Blaming the ERM was just a nice propaganda trick.Richard_Tyndall said:
Shame he didn't consider the damage he was going to cause to millions of ordinary people when he enthusiastically signed us up to ERM then fought tooth and nail to keep us in.williamglenn said:0 -
Because it makes sense not to have us pissed off and semi hostile to them in the long term future.Bromptonaut said:
Why should the EU care about UK public opinion?welshowl said:
The EU are making zero effort to sweeten any pill or present things in a sellable way. Today has been a PR huge own goal for them. They can’t help themselves.Foxy said:
Yes but how is that different to what was agreed in December?welshowl said:
Nah, he’s being provocative as a tactic for sure, to wind back later. But let’s get this clear, a foreign power has today actually proposed in writing economically annexing part of our country. There are no words.Foxy said:
May is rejecting what she agreed to just 2 months ago. Barnier's exasperation is fairly comprehensible.Big_G_NorthWales said:TM rejecting Barnier on Ireland is headlining the news media and they are showing her comments at PMQ's and they will be well received in the Country
No price is too high to remove ourselves from this web, our politicians have woven us into over decades, without referring to the people for four decades.
No price.
Did May not understand what she agreed then? or has she just reneged on the agreement?0 -
Yes, no, to be agreed in negotiations, not outside of secondary effects in a few select areas.Foxy said:
Would that regulatory equivalence apply to all of the UK? or would it differ between islands?Elliot said:
May agreed to regulatory equivalence in select areas covered by the GFA, not Northern Ireland staying in the customs union.Foxy said:
Yes but how is that different to what was agreed in December?welshowl said:
Nah, he’s being provocative as a tactic for sure, to wind back later. But let’s get this clear, a foreign power has today actually proposed in writing economically annexing part of our country. There are no words.Foxy said:
May is rejecting what she agreed to just 2 months ago. Barnier's exasperation is fairly comprehensible.Big_G_NorthWales said:TM rejecting Barnier on Ireland is headlining the news media and they are showing her comments at PMQ's and they will be well received in the Country
No price is too high to remove ourselves from this web, our politicians have woven us into over decades, without referring to the people for four decades.
No price.
Did May not understand what she agreed then? or has she just reneged on the agreement?
How would that regulatory equivalence be managed? Would the ECJ have a role?0 -
I’m sure we were shadowing the DM before the official entry though.williamglenn said:
We entered the ERM in October 1990.Elliot said:
Yes, there was a huge spike from 1987 onwards. Rapid rises like that should never happen if you are focusing on maintaining a healthy national economy, but the altar of European integration demanded we enter recession to shadow the Mark.williamglenn said:
You might recall it, but it didn't happen.steve_garner said:
Do I recall that lots of ordinary people saw their mortgage rates rocket upward as Major tried to keep Britain in the ERM?Elliot said:
Presumably the record high interest rates set not for the regulation of employment or inflation but to shadow the German Mark. That failed effort cost UK PLC billions.williamglenn said:
By what mechanism do you think the ERM damaged millions of ordinary people?Richard_Tyndall said:
Garbage. I do love the way you prostitute yourself with any old lie to defend the EU. It is a stunning example of fanaticism.williamglenn said:
It was the Lawsom boom-bust cycle that damaged ordinary people. Blaming the ERM was just a nice propaganda trick.Richard_Tyndall said:
Shame he didn't consider the damage he was going to cause to millions of ordinary people when he enthusiastically signed us up to ERM then fought tooth and nail to keep us in.williamglenn said:0 -
On topic...well Rugby Union, can anyone explain the utility of Bonus Points?
Imagine the scenario. Ireland beat Scotland scoring 4+ tries. (very possible).
England beat France scoring 3 or fewer (possibke given how dour France are).
The scene is set for a gigantic Championship decider of England v Ireland...
Except it isn't. Under those circumstances Ireland have already won the Six Nations by virtue of more bonus points...0 -
Yes, but that was at a time when interest rates were fully under political control.welshowl said:
I’m sure we were shadowing the DM before the official entry though.williamglenn said:
We entered the ERM in October 1990.Elliot said:
Yes, there was a huge spike from 1987 onwards. Rapid rises like that should never happen if you are focusing on maintaining a healthy national economy, but the altar of European integration demanded we enter recession to shadow the Mark.williamglenn said:
You might recall it, but it didn't happen.steve_garner said:
Do I recall that lots of ordinary people saw their mortgage rates rocket upward as Major tried to keep Britain in the ERM?Elliot said:
Presumably the record high interest rates set not for the regulation of employment or inflation but to shadow the German Mark. That failed effort cost UK PLC billions.williamglenn said:
By what mechanism do you think the ERM damaged millions of ordinary people?Richard_Tyndall said:
Garbage. I do love the way you prostitute yourself with any old lie to defend the EU. It is a stunning example of fanaticism.williamglenn said:
It was the Lawsom boom-bust cycle that damaged ordinary people. Blaming the ERM was just a nice propaganda trick.Richard_Tyndall said:
Shame he didn't consider the damage he was going to cause to millions of ordinary people when he enthusiastically signed us up to ERM then fought tooth and nail to keep us in.williamglenn said:0
