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At 7%, I think we've reached the bedrock of Lib Dem support.SeanT said:
But nearly all the Lib Dem voters in these seats would back Corbyn. Surely. That's 2.3m voters.Sean_F said:
He already has the vast majority of Remainers. There are penny packets of Remain voters he can win from the Lib Dems and SNP, but he'd be ceding ground in the East and West Midlands and parts of the North to the Conservatives.SeanT said:
I disagree. He could offer a too many Leavers, but reap millions of grateful Remainers.Sean_F said:
Jeremy Corbyn going full Remain would cost his party votes, not gain them. His current stance is brilliant, in terms of maximising the Labour vote.SeanT said:
It must be verRoyalBlue said:
Staying in a customs union and staying in a customs union and the Single Market are very different things. The former does not allow immigration control from the EU. The latter does.SeanT said:
We will never rejoin the EU after we Brexit. But will we Brexit?williamglenn said:
We'll be rule taking and cash giving from the outside. What will characterise rejoining is that we will regain a say in the affairs of the EU.TGOHF said:I'd say it is very relevant. Voters appear very resistant to change - unless the situation is so bad that lancing the boil is required - like Brexit.
Once we have left, the resistance to rejoining will be high - particularly as it will involve a lot of rule taking and cash giving.
Guido has this story.
https://twitter.com/EuroGuido/status/966735461799559168
If Corbyn backed staying in the SM, CU and a 2nd referendum (with the option of Remain) he could topple the government, & win the election. Within the next 6 months. BUT he is a lifelong eurosceptic with a history of NEVER changing his mind. A piquant moment.
What price power, Jeremy?
It would be a very very tight election. Just like the referendum. And Corbyn would be in with a real shout of winning.
Two things are keeping Tory support at 40% +. Brexit and Corbyn. Neither group shifts if Corbyn backs Remain.
But, some Labour Leave supporters will shift. There are no seats that Labour gain gain from the Lib Dems. Even if Labour gained 20 off the SNP, if they lose places like Ashfield, Bishop Auckland, Stoke North, they move further away from power.0 -
I do quite like it, true - it just seems to sum up those who haven't understood that the referendum is over fantastically.Gardenwalker said:
I knew you’d pop up with your Pacific Island jibes.Mortimer said:Pacific Islander Remainers get very excited at every tidbit of anti-Brexit news or even rumours.
It has never helped their cause. In fact, it hurts it.
This is the golden rule of Brexit.
The question is not, what is the route to Remain? The question is, what is Corbyn’s route to power?
Personally, I’d prefer to Brexit than see Corbyn as PM.
The main obstacle to Corbyn's route to power is time. He doesn't have it. Every year that Labour are on a war footing, they lose funds, and power of novelty and surprise. Once Brexit occurs, he also loses the backing of a chunk of Remainers who are currently holding their noses to support him.
The other thing, of course, is the numbers. There is no way that Clarke votes down a government bill that risks Corbz getting in. Ditto soubry.0 -
I base my observation on personal experience from canvassing. Lots who you know are leaning/likely LibDem and when you ask how they will be voting say "Well, it won't be Labour...."Barnesian said:
I don't think that is right. Many LibDems were upset with Labour at the 2017 election that they weren't more pro remain. I'm sure many LibDems withheld their tactical vote for Labour in Labour/Tory marginals as the Tory and Labour policies on Europe were very similar.MarqueeMark said:
There are plenty of LibDems who would NEVER vote Labour. Given how well Labour did in 2017, and the LibDems on 6-7% in the polls, Corbyn has probably already stripped most of those who were ever likely to go to him.SeanT said:But nearly all the Lib Dem voters in these seats would back Corbyn. Surely. That's 2.3m voters.
It would be a very very tight election. Just like the referendum. And Corbyn would be in with a real shout of winning.
If Corbyn went full Remain, I would certainly vote Labour in a Labour/Tory marginal.
I think the next election, if it comes before Mar 2019, will see tactical voting between Labour and LibDems on a massive scale.0 -
You assume a significant number of Labour Leavers would consider voting Tory on the EU question. You underestimate the hatred of the Tories by very many Labour voters, whether Remainers or Leavers.HYUFD said:
If Corbyn came out for a second Referendum and/or staying in the single market and leaving free movement in place (which he won't) the Tories could well win a small majority through sweeping Leave voting marginals even if Labpur won the popular vote through huge majorities in urbsn areasSeanT said:
But nearly all the Lib Dem voters in these seats would back Corbyn. Surely. That's 2.3m voters.Sean_F said:
He already has the vast majority of Remainers. There are penny packets of Remain voters he can win from the Lib Dems and SNP, but he'd be ceding ground in the East and West Midlands and parts of the North to the Conservatives.SeanT said:
I disagree. He could offer a 2nd referendum, but say his personal opinion whether we should Leave or Remain is undecided. i.e. Continue the helpful vagueness, not alienate too many Leavers, but reap millions of grateful Remainers.Sean_F said:
Jeremy Corbyn going full Remain would cost his party votes, not gain them. His current stance is brilliant, in terms of maximising the Labour vote.SeanT said:
It must be very tempting for Corbyn to go full Remoaner now. It y then.RoyalBlue said:
Staying in a customs union and staying in a customs union and the Single Market are very different things. The former does not allow immigration control from the EU. The latter does.SeanT said:
We will never rejoin the EU after we Brexit. But will we Brexit?williamglenn said:
We'll be rule taking and cash giving from the outside. What will characterise rejoining is that we will regain a say in the affairs of the EU.TGOHF said:I'd
Guido has this story.
https://twitter.com/EuroGuido/status/966735461799559168
If Corbyn backed staying in the SM, CU and a 2nd referendum (with the option of Remain) he could topple the government, & win the election. Within the next 6 months. BUT he is a lifelong eurosceptic with a history of NEVER changing his mind. A piquant moment.
Yet Full on Remoanerism goes against everything he stands for, he is a Bennite eurosceptic, to the bone.
What price power, Jeremy?
It would be a very very tight election. Just like the referendum. And Corbyn would be in with a real shout of winning.0 -
On time, we are speculating on the near future - some time in 2018. As far as I am aware, Labour is doing much better than the Tories in both finances and troops.Mortimer said:
I do quite like it, true - it just seems to sum up those who haven't understood that the referendum is over fantastically.Gardenwalker said:
I knew you’d pop up with your Pacific Island jibes.Mortimer said:Pacific Islander Remainers get very excited at every tidbit of anti-Brexit news or even rumours.
It has never helped their cause. In fact, it hurts it.
This is the golden rule of Brexit.
The question is not, what is the route to Remain? The question is, what is Corbyn’s route to power?
Personally, I’d prefer to Brexit than see Corbyn as PM.
The main obstacle to Corbyn's route to power is time. He doesn't have it. Every year that Labour are on a war footing, they lose funds, and power of novelty and surprise. Once Brexit occurs, he also loses the backing of a chunk of Remainers who are currently holding their noses to support him.
The other thing, of course, is the numbers. There is no way that Clarke votes down a government bill that risks Corbz getting in. Ditto soubry.
On the numbers, I tend to agree with you. But it also depends on how crazy those muthas in the ERG want to be. I *can* imagine the government losing a critical vote on a core Brexit policy, and some hothead bringing the whole show down.0 -
There is no point Corbyn winning a few upper middle class centrist Remainers in safe Labour seats in the inner cities or safe Tory seats in the Home Counties if he loses working class Leave voters in key marginal seats in the North and Midlands.SeanT said:
I disagree. It needs him to rein in all the loony lefty stuff, tack to the centre, keep the nice giveaways (tuition fees, trains, etc), and offer a huge juicy present to Remainers, a 2nd referendum, even though he personally remains Brexiteerish. Then he could easily win a decent if small majority. And then when he is power he would simply change his mind and seize the houses and assets of everyone with more than £3 in their savings acccount.AndyJS said:
Corbyn cannot sweep to victory, the best he can hope for is cobbling together a rainbow coalition without about 5 parties with a tiny majority.SeanT said:
I'm being provocative, but not playful. The maths is seriously do-able for Labour, if only they weren't led by ideological nutters. Public opinion is slightly anti-Leave. Public opinion is quite strongly FOR a 2nd referendum. 50:36 IIRC.TheScreamingEagles said:
SeanT's the one who is doing the frottagingTGOHF said:Familiar pattern,
Glimmer of hope tweet/comment from Labour source
Remainers engage in frottaging
The route to Remain is examined - it's thin gruel when you think about it - oh well
Rinse and repeat in a week
If Corbyn switches to Yes, let's have a 2nd referendum (but stays personally Brexity) then he could sweep to victory, I reckon.
I'm not pleased by this prospect. The idea of a Corbyn government makes me nauseous. I'm just saying that, given the continuing strife and confusion in Tory ranks, it becomes ever more possible to see a Corbyn route to victory via some significant gesture towards Remainerism - ie that 2nd vote on The Deal.
OK now I am having my second G&T
Now, for all his faults (e.g. he is a traitor) Corbyn strikes me as a politician who likes to "see" himself as principled, so it is quite unlikely he will make these moves. I agree.
My point is that it is possible, and this must occur to Corbyn and his allies from time to time: this is how they win, and soon.
If Labour were led by a devious old moose like Thornberry then I'd be much more worried. She would do all this in a trice, and win.
Even Thornberry made clear on Peston on Sunday Labour would leave the single market in large part to respect the Leave vote of its working class voters to get greater control over immigration .
Unless and until someone like Chuka Umunna becomes Labour leader, a Labour government means socialism and a UK out of the single market0 -
What on earth is the point of staying in the Customs Union but not the Single Market? You get the worst of all possible worlds surely? Better to stay in both than one and not the other.
Or am I missing something?0 -
You are, possibly.Cyclefree said:What on earth is the point of staying in the Customs Union but not the Single Market? You get the worst of all possible worlds surely? Better to stay in both than one and not the other.
Or am I missing something?
The government wishes to leave the single market but stay in a “customs arrangement”.
Labour wishes to leave the single market but recreate “a version of the customs union”.
This is just semantics. Both parties wish to end immigration, but preserve the supply chains that make our industrial base viable. They hope that a new form of customs agreement will keep things as they are for the things we currently make, but open up flexibility for the opportunities we might identify in the future.
Edit: Labour’s policy is to indentify a policy where they can vote against the government and find common cause with Tory Remainers. If that means calling it a new form of customs union as opposed to a customs arrangement, so be it.0 -
Good point. You don't put a pair of gerbils in a dog fight.TheScreamingEagles said:
It's funny.Philip_Thompson said:
Indeed we voted Leave despite not because of Farage.
If Farage had fronted Leave then I would have probably voted Remain.
One of my friends is a staunch Leaver (he's a lot like Casino Royale), the other week he admitted to me had he have known Brexit would be implemented by Liam Fox and David Davis then not only would he have voted Remain he'd have gone out campaigning for Remain too.0 -
The world changes. Not too long ago, Tory-hating voters in places like Morley & Outwood, Mansfield, Thurrock, Walsall North, Stoke South, Telford etc. Were returning Labour MP's with big majorities.Barnesian said:
You assume a significant number of Labour Leavers would consider voting Tory on the EU question. You underestimate the hatred of the Tories by very many Labour voters, whether Remainers or Leavers.HYUFD said:
If Corbyn came out for a second Referendum and/or staying in the single market and leaving free movement in place (which he won't) the Tories could well win a small majority through sweeping Leave voting marginals even if Labpur won the popular vote through huge majorities in urbsn areasSeanT said:
But nearly all the Lib Dem voters in these seats would back Corbyn. Surely. That's 2.3m voters.Sean_F said:
He already has the vast majority of Remainers. There are penny packets of Remain voters he can win from the Lib Dems and SNP, but he'd be ceding ground in the East and West Midlands and parts of the North to the Conservatives.SeanT said:
I disagree. He could offer a 2nd referendum, but say his personal opinion whether we should Leave or Remain is undecided. i.e. Continue the helpful vagueness, not alienate too many Leavers, but reap millions of grateful Remainers.Sean_F said:
Jeremy Corbyn going full Remain would cost his party votes, not gain them. His current stance is brilliant, in terms of maximising the Labour vote.SeanT said:
It must be very tempting for Corbyn to go full Remoaner now. It y then.RoyalBlue said:
Staying in a customs union and staying in a customs union and the Single Market are very different things. The former does not allow immigration control from the EU. The latter does.SeanT said:
We will never rejoin the EU after we Brexit. But will we Brexit?williamglenn said:
We'll be rule taking and cash giving from the outside. What will characterise rejoining is that we will regain a say in the affairs of the EU.TGOHF said:I'd
Guido has this story.
https://twitter.com/EuroGuido/status/966735461799559168
If Corbyn backed staying in the SM, moment.
Yet Full on Remoanerism goes against everything he stands for, he is a Bennite eurosceptic, to the bone.
What price power, Jeremy?
It would be a very very tight election. Just like the referendum. And Corbyn would be in with a real shout of winning.0 -
They won'tGardenwalker said:
Yes, but that doesn’t take into consideration the idea of Leavers voting for an ostensibly Brexity Corbyn advocating a “vote on the deal”.HYUFD said:
Of the top 20 Labour target seats held by the Tories only 3 voted Remain and 17 LeaveGardenwalker said:
The - perhaps wishful? - analysis suggests Corbyn advocating a path to Remain is a net gain to him.HYUFD said:
The vast majority of Remainers are voting Labour anyway, however so are a number of working class Leave voters, especially in the marginals which will decide the next general electionSeanT said:
I disagree. He could offer a 2nd referendum, but say his personal opinion whether we should Leave or Remain is undecided. i.e. Continue the helpful vagueness, not alienate too many Leavers, but reap millions of grateful Remainers.Sean_F said:
Jeremy Corbyn going full Remain would cost his party votes, not gain them. His current stance is brilliant, in terms of maximising the Labour vote.SeanT said:
It must be very tempting for Corbyn to go full Remoaner now. It isRoyalBlue said:
Staying in a customs union and staying in a customs union and the Single Market are very different things. The former does not allow immigration control from the EU. The latter does.SeanT said:
We will never rejoin the EU after we Brexit. But will we Brexit?williamglenn said:
We'll be rule taking and cash giving from the outside. What will characterise rejoining is that we will regain a say in the affairs of the EU.TGOHF said:I'd say it is very relevant. Voters appear very resistant to change - unless the situation is so bad that lancing the boil is required - like Brexit.
Once we have left, the resistance to rejoining will be high - particularly as it will involve a lot of rule taking and cash giving.
Guido has this story.
https://twitter.com/EuroGuido/status/966735461799559168
If Corbyn backed staying in the SM, CU and a 2nd. A piquant moment.
Yet Full on Remoanerism goes against everything he stands for, he is a Bennite eurosceptic, to the bone.
What price power, Jeremy?
There are Leavers and Remainers on both sides, but there seems to be a crucial set of centrists who would flick Labour if the offer is right - enough to outweigh those coming the other way.
http://www.electionpolling.co.uk/battleground/targets/labour0 -
Labour isn't seen as Remain yet and you're probably not canvassing in a Labour/Tory marginal where tactical voting matters.MarqueeMark said:
I base my observation on personal experience from canvassing. Lots who you know are leaning/likely LibDem and when you ask how they will be voting say "Well, it won't be Labour...."Barnesian said:
I don't think that is right. Many LibDems were upset with Labour at the 2017 election that they weren't more pro remain. I'm sure many LibDems withheld their tactical vote for Labour in Labour/Tory marginals as the Tory and Labour policies on Europe were very similar.MarqueeMark said:
There are plenty of LibDems who would NEVER vote Labour. Given how well Labour did in 2017, and the LibDems on 6-7% in the polls, Corbyn has probably already stripped most of those who were ever likely to go to him.SeanT said:But nearly all the Lib Dem voters in these seats would back Corbyn. Surely. That's 2.3m voters.
It would be a very very tight election. Just like the referendum. And Corbyn would be in with a real shout of winning.
If Corbyn went full Remain, I would certainly vote Labour in a Labour/Tory marginal.
I think the next election, if it comes before Mar 2019, will see tactical voting between Labour and LibDems on a massive scale.
I'm doing a lot of canvassing at the moment and focusing on Labour supporters to convince them to vote tactically for LibDem to stop the Tories in this Borough. I also ask them how they voted at the EURef. Their desire to stop the Tories trumps whether they are a Leaver or Remainer. Most Labour Leavers are very happy to lend the LibDems their vote to get shot of the Tories locally.0 -
The Tories only need 8 net gains for a majority, all it takes is a few more Mansfields and Stokes, that is itBarnesian said:
You assume a significant number of Labour Leavers would consider voting Tory on the EU question. You underestimate the hatred of the Tories by very many Labour voters, whether Remainers or Leavers.HYUFD said:
If Corbyn came out for a second Referendum and/or staying in the single market and leaving free movement in place (which he won't) the Tories could well win a small majority through sweeping Leave voting marginals even if Labpur won the popular vote through huge majorities in urbsn areasSeanT said:
But nearly all the Lib Dem voters in these seats would back Corbyn. Surely. That's 2.3m voters.Sean_F said:
He already has the vast majority of Remainers. There are penny packets of Remain voters he can win from the Lib Dems and SNP, but he'd be ceding ground in the East and West Midlands and parts of the North to the Conservatives.SeanT said:
I disagree. He could offer a 2nd referendum, but say his personal opinion whether we should Leave or Remain is undecided. i.e. Continue the helpful vagueness, not alienate too many Leavers, but reap millions of grateful Remainers.Sean_F said:
Jeremy Corbyn going full Remain would cost his party votes, not gain them. His current stance is brilliant, in terms of maximising the Labour vote.SeanT said:
It must be very tempting for Corbyn to go full Remoaner now. It y then.RoyalBlue said:
Staying in a customs union and staying in a customs union and the Single Market are very different things. The former does not allow immigration control from the EU. The latter does.SeanT said:
We will never rejoin the EU after we Brexit. But will we Brexit?williamglenn said:
We'll be rule taking and cash giving from the outside. What will characterise rejoining is that we will regain a say in the affairs of the EU.TGOHF said:I'd
Guido has this story.
https://twitter.com/EuroGuido/status/966735461799559168
If Corbyn backed staying in the SM, CU and a 2nd referendum (with the option of Remain) he could topple the government, & win the election. Within the next 6 months. BUT he is a lifelong eurosceptic with a history of NEVER changing his mind. A piquant moment.
Yet Full on Remoanerism goes against everything he stands for, he is a Bennite eurosceptic, to the bone.
What price power, Jeremy?
It would be a very very tight election. Just like the referendum. And Corbyn would be in with a real shout of winning.0 -
Ten or so Conservative MP's would have to be persuaded that stopping Brexit was (a) worth putting in a very left wing government and (b) Worth terminating their careers. That's a tall order.SeanT said:
How can you be so sure about Clarke and Soubry?Mortimer said:
I do quite like it, true - it just seems to sum up those who haven't understood that the referendum is over fantastically.Gardenwalker said:
I knew you’d pop up with your Pacific Island jibes.Mortimer said:Pacific Islander Remainers get very excited at every tidbit of anti-Brexit news or even rumours.
It has never helped their cause. In fact, it hurts it.
This is the golden rule of Brexit.
The question is not, what is the route to Remain? The question is, what is Corbyn’s route to power?
Personally, I’d prefer to Brexit than see Corbyn as PM.
The main obstacle to Corbyn's route to power is time. He doesn't have it. Every year that Labour are on a war footing, they lose funds, and power of novelty and surprise. Once Brexit occurs, he also loses the backing of a chunk of Remainers who are currently holding their noses to support him.
The other thing, of course, is the numbers. There is no way that Clarke votes down a government bill that risks Corbz getting in. Ditto soubry.
Michael Heseltine is on record as saying he thinks a Corbyn government would be less damaging than Brexit.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/michael-heseltine-brexit-latest-jeremy-corbyn-theresa-may-a8129541.html
Why should his very close allies like Clarke feel differently?0 -
McDonnell on the other hand....he would say and do anything to get power and then implement his Marxist ideals. He only joined the Labour party in the first place to do this.SeanT said:
I disagree. It needs him to rein in all the loony lefty stuff, tack to the centre, keep the nice giveaways (tuition fees, trains, etc), and offer a huge juicy present to Remainers, a 2nd referendum, even though he personally remains Brexiteerish. Then he could easily win a decent if small majority. And then when he is power he would simply change his mind and seize the houses and assets of everyone with more than £3 in their savings acccount.AndyJS said:
Corbyn cannot sweep to victory, the best he can hope for is cobbling together a rainbow coalition without about 5 parties with a tiny majority.SeanT said:
I'm being provocative, but not playful. The maths is seriously do-able for Labour, if only they weren't led by ideological nutters. Public opinion is slightly anti-Leave. Public opinion is quite strongly FOR a 2nd referendum. 50:36 IIRC.TheScreamingEagles said:
SeanT's the one who is doing the frottagingTGOHF said:Familiar pattern,
Glimmer of hope tweet/comment from Labour source
Remainers engage in frottaging
The route to Remain is examined - it's thin gruel when you think about it - oh well
Rinse and repeat in a week
If Corbyn switches to Yes, let's have a 2nd referendum (but stays personally Brexity) then he could sweep to victory, I reckon.
I'm not pleased by this prospect. The idea of a Corbyn government makes me nauseous. I'm just saying that, given the continuing strife and confusion in Tory ranks, it becomes ever more possible to see a Corbyn route to victory via some significant gesture towards Remainerism - ie that 2nd vote on The Deal.
OK now I am having my second G&T
Now, for all his faults (e.g. he is a traitor) Corbyn strikes me as a politician who likes to "see" himself as principled, so it is quite unlikely he will make these moves. I agree.
My point is that it is possible, and this must occur to Corbyn and his allies from time to time: this is how they win, and soon.
If Labour were led by a devious old moose like Thornberry then I'd be much more worried. She would do all this in a trice, and win.0 -
It is. I do doubt they would.Sean_F said:
Ten or so Conservative MP's would have to be persuaded that stopping Brexit was (a) worth putting in a very left wing government and (b) terminating their careers. That's a tall order.SeanT said:
How can you be so sure about Clarke and Soubry?Mortimer said:
I do quite like it, true - it just seems to sum up those who haven't understood that the referendum is over fantastically.Gardenwalker said:
I knew you’d pop up with your Pacific Island jibes.Mortimer said:Pacific Islander Remainers get very excited at every tidbit of anti-Brexit news or even rumours.
It has never helped their cause. In fact, it hurts it.
This is the golden rule of Brexit.
The question is not, what is the route to Remain? The question is, what is Corbyn’s route to power?
Personally, I’d prefer to Brexit than see Corbyn as PM.
The main obstacle to Corbyn's route to power is time. He doesn't have it. Every year that Labour are on a war footing, they lose funds, and power of novelty and surprise. Once Brexit occurs, he also loses the backing of a chunk of Remainers who are currently holding their noses to support him.
The other thing, of course, is the numbers. There is no way that Clarke votes down a government bill that risks Corbz getting in. Ditto soubry.
Michael Heseltine is on record as saying he thinks a Corbyn government would be less damaging than Brexit.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/michael-heseltine-brexit-latest-jeremy-corbyn-theresa-may-a8129541.html
Why should his very close allies like Clarke feel differently?
Two circumstances I can conceive of, though:
- Sinn Fein taking their seats
- A “Remain” win on a key government vote that enrages ERG nutters enough to start some kind of countdown against May.
Then Soubry et al might need to choose between Rees Mogg on one hand and Corbyn plus a “deal” referendum on the other.0 -
Have I misunderstood the document linked to in the thread header? I think it says 50:36 AGAINST a 2nd referendum...?SeanT said:
I'm being provocative, but not playful. The maths is seriously do-able for Labour, if only they weren't led by ideological nutters. Public opinion is slightly anti-Leave. Public opinion is quite strongly FOR a 2nd referendum. 50:36 IIRC.TheScreamingEagles said:
SeanT's the one who is doing the frottagingTGOHF said:Familiar pattern,
Glimmer of hope tweet/comment from Labour source
Remainers engage in frottaging
The route to Remain is examined - it's thin gruel when you think about it - oh well
Rinse and repeat in a week
If Corbyn switches to Yes, let's have a 2nd referendum (but stays personally Brexity) then he could sweep to victory, I reckon.
I'm not pleased by this prospect. The idea of a Corbyn government makes me nauseous. I'm just saying that, given the continuing strife and confusion in Tory ranks, it becomes ever more possible to see a Corbyn route to victory via some significant gesture towards Remainerism - ie that 2nd vote on The Deal.
OK now I am having my second G&T0 -
It wouldn't surprise me if Labour have done some polling to check this out. And they have probably found that it won't lose enough of "Stokie man" if they do.SeanT said:
I disagree. He could offer a 2nd referendum, but say his personal opinion whether we should Leave or Remain is undecided. i.e. Continue the helpful vagueness, not alienate too many Leavers, but reap millions of grateful Remainers.Sean_F said:
Jeremy Corbyn going full Remain would cost his party votes, not gain them. His current stance is brilliant, in terms of maximising the Labour vote.SeanT said:
It must be very tempting for Corbyn to go full Remoaner now. It is his one BIG chance of overthrowing the government, and actually becoming Prime Minister. An incredible achievement. If he doesn't, and Brexit goes ahead, he will very probably be a loser again in 2022, if he hasn't already retired or died or whatever by then.RoyalBlue said:
Staying in a customs union and staying in a customs union and the Single Market are very different things. The former does not allow immigration control from the EU. The latter does.SeanT said:
We will never rejoin the EU after we Brexit. But will we Brexit?williamglenn said:
We'll be rule taking and cash giving from the outside. What will characterise rejoining is that we will regain a say in the affairs of the EU.TGOHF said:I'd say it is very relevant. Voters appear very resistant to change - unless the situation is so bad that lancing the boil is required - like Brexit.
Once we have left, the resistance to rejoining will be high - particularly as it will involve a lot of rule taking and cash giving.
Guido has this story.
https://twitter.com/EuroGuido/status/966735461799559168
If Corbyn backed staying in the SM, CU and a 2nd referendum (with the option of Remain) he could topple the government, & win the election. Within the next 6 months. BUT he is a lifelong eurosceptic with a history of NEVER changing his mind. A piquant moment.
Yet Full on Remoanerism goes against everything he stands for, he is a Bennite eurosceptic, to the bone.
What price power, Jeremy?0 -
Off-topic:
It looks like Venezuela thinks it has found another secret money tree:
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/02/venezuela-says-its-cryptocurrency-raised-735-million-but-its-a-farce/
P.s.: Don't tell Corbyn. It'll just give him ideas.0 -
What could possibly go wrong....JosiasJessop said:Off-topic:
It looks like Venezuela thinks it has found another secret money tree:
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/02/venezuela-says-its-cryptocurrency-raised-735-million-but-its-a-farce/
P.s.: Don't tell Corbyn. It'll just give him ideas.0 -
Staying in the Customs Union is less controversial. Who cares if the tariff on Peruvian guano is 2% or 3% ? The sensible option is staying a member of the European Union but, hey, we voted against the sensible option. Suck it up, losers, etc,Cyclefree said:What on earth is the point of staying in the Customs Union but not the Single Market? You get the worst of all possible worlds surely? Better to stay in both than one and not the other.
Or am I missing something?0 -
Staying in the Customs Union maybe, staying in the Single Market and leaving free movement uncontrolled maybe notFrancisUrquhart said:
It wouldn't surprise me if Labour have done some polling to check this out. And they have probably found that it won't lose enough of "Stokie man" if they do.SeanT said:
I disagree. He could offer a 2nd referendum, but say his personal opinion whether we should Leave or Remain is undecided. i.e. Continue the helpful vagueness, not alienate too many Leavers, but reap millions of grateful Remainers.Sean_F said:
Jeremy Corbyn going full Remain would cost his party votes, not gain them. His current stance is brilliant, in terms of maximising the Labour vote.SeanT said:
It must be very tempting for Corbyn to go full Remoaner now. It is his one BIG chance of overthrowing the government, and actually becoming Prime Minister. An incredible achievement. If he doesn't, and Brexit goes ahead, he will very probably be a loser again in 2022, if he hasn't already retired or died or whatever by then.RoyalBlue said:
Staying in a customs union and staying in a customs union and the Single Market are very different things. The former does not allow immigration control from the EU. The latter does.SeanT said:
We will never rejoin the EU after we Brexit. But will we Brexit?williamglenn said:
We'll be rule taking and cash giving from the outside. What will characterise rejoining is that we will regain a say in the affairs of the EU.TGOHF said:I'd say it is very relevant. Voters appear very resistant to change - unless the situation is so bad that lancing the boil is required - like Brexit.
Once we have left, the resistance to rejoining will be high - particularly as it will involve a lot of rule taking and cash giving.
Guido has this story.
https://twitter.com/EuroGuido/status/966735461799559168
If Corbyn backed staying in the SM, CU and a 2nd referendum (with the option of Remain) he could topple the government, & win the election. Within the next 6 months. BUT he is a lifelong eurosceptic with a history of NEVER changing his mind. A piquant moment.
Yet Full on Remoanerism goes against everything he stands for, he is a Bennite eurosceptic, to the bone.
What price power, Jeremy?0 -
Perhaps they will find a form of words a bit like Corbyn GE pledge on managing immigration. The reality is he doesn't believe in it and he wouldn't cut the numbers, but I bet loads of people think he would based upon some vague promises he gave.HYUFD said:
Staying in the Customs Union maybe, staying in the Single Market and leaving free movement uncontrolled maybe notFrancisUrquhart said:
It wouldn't surprise me if Labour have done some polling to check this out. And they have probably found that it won't lose enough of "Stokie man" if they do.SeanT said:
I disagree. He could offer a 2nd referendum, but say his personal opinion whether we should Leave or Remain is undecided. i.e. Continue the helpful vagueness, not alienate too many Leavers, but reap millions of grateful Remainers.Sean_F said:
Jeremy Corbyn going full Remain would cost his party votes, not gain them. His current stance is brilliant, in terms of maximising the Labour vote.SeanT said:
It must be very tempting for Corbyn to go full Remoaner now. It is his one BIG chance of overthrowing the government, and actually becoming Prime Minister. An incredible achievement. If he doesn't, and Brexit goes ahead, he will very probably be a loser again in 2022, if he hasn't already retired or died or whatever by then.RoyalBlue said:
Staying in a customs union and staying in a customs union and the Single Market are very different things. The former does not allow immigration control from the EU. The latter does.SeanT said:
We will never rejoin the EU after we Brexit. But will we Brexit?williamglenn said:
We'll be rule taking and cash giving from the outside. What will characterise rejoining is that we will regain a say in the affairs of the EU.TGOHF said:I'd say it is very relevant. Voters appear very resistant to change - unless the situation is so bad that lancing the boil is required - like Brexit.
Once we have left, the resistance to rejoining will be high - particularly as it will involve a lot of rule taking and cash giving.
Guido has this story.
https://twitter.com/EuroGuido/status/966735461799559168
If Corbyn backed staying in the SM, CU and a 2nd referendum (with the option of Remain) he could topple the government, & win the election. Within the next 6 months. BUT he is a lifelong eurosceptic with a history of NEVER changing his mind. A piquant moment.
Yet Full on Remoanerism goes against everything he stands for, he is a Bennite eurosceptic, to the bone.
What price power, Jeremy?0 -
I've been threatened a few times for not being orange.Pulpstar said:
I was assaulted, and threatened on two separate occasions in Coventry City centre circa 1998/9. Both times I'm reasonably confident it was due to being white.NickPalmer said:
The argument, which on the whole I agree with, is that in the former case it sends a message to be frightened to everyone with a non-white skin, many of whom will already have experienced some degree of unpleasantness. In the latter case, it really doesn't send a message to everyone with a mobile phone.TheScreamingEagles said:
I made that point a while back.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Eagles, that kind of thing always sounds odd to me. Would sending unknown powder to a (soon-to-be) member of the royal family be less serious if it had a politically correct note enclosed, explaining that the individual was being targeted for reasons unrelated to demography?
If someone kicks my head because they don’t like the colour of my skin or kicks my head in to steal my mobile phone it’s still going to hurt me the same.
When minorities are completely accepted and never encounter systematic victimisation, it becomes time to drop such special rules - for instance, nobody persecutes people from Derbyshire, so there's no need to give them extra protection. But we're not there yet with non-white people.0 -
He'd be doing what Harold Wilson did in 1975:FrancisUrquhart said:
It wouldn't surprise me if Labour have done some polling to check this out. And they have probably found that it won't lose enough of "Stokie man" if they do.SeanT said:
I disagree. He could offer a 2nd referendum, but say his personal opinion whether we should Leave or Remain is undecided. i.e. Continue the helpful vagueness, not alienate too many Leavers, but reap millions of grateful Remainers.Sean_F said:
Jeremy Corbyn going full Remain would cost his party votes, not gain them. His current stance is brilliant, in terms of maximising the Labour vote.SeanT said:
It must be very tempting for Corbyn to go full Remoaner now. It is his one BIG chance of overthrowing the government, and actually becoming Prime Minister. An incredible achievement. If he doesn't, and Brexit goes ahead, he will very probably be a loser again in 2022, if he hasn't already retired or died or whatever by then.RoyalBlue said:
Staying in a customs union and staying in a customs union and the Single Market are very different things. The former does not allow immigration control from the EU. The latter does.SeanT said:
We will never rejoin the EU after we Brexit. But will we Brexit?williamglenn said:
We'll be rule taking and cash giving from the outside. What will characterise rejoining is that we will regain a say in the affairs of the EU.TGOHF said:I'd say it is very relevant. Voters appear very resistant to change - unless the situation is so bad that lancing the boil is required - like Brexit.
Once we have left, the resistance to rejoining will be high - particularly as it will involve a lot of rule taking and cash giving.
Guido has this story.
https://twitter.com/EuroGuido/status/966735461799559168
If Corbyn backed staying in the SM, CU and a 2nd referendum (with the option of Remain) he could topple the government, & win the election. Within the next 6 months. BUT he is a lifelong eurosceptic with a history of NEVER changing his mind. A piquant moment.
Yet Full on Remoanerism goes against everything he stands for, he is a Bennite eurosceptic, to the bone.
What price power, Jeremy?
stand magnanimously above the fray
let colleagues fight it out
agree to accept the peoples' verdict
(he probably knew before doing this that he'd win 2:1).
Wilson won an election on a referendum promise. Unlike Cameron he didn't blow up the country by getting the 'wrong' result.0 -
We mustn't forget the principled Labour leavers, they are mainly anti-Corbyn as well so would either abstain or vote with the Tories. I think SF taking their seats is pure fantasy but if that forced an election it would add quite a few seats to the Tory majority.0
-
The header's graph drawer needs to spend a great deal of time in detention with Trump's teachers.
0 -
GOP going back to the Supreme Court re PA boundaries.
For some reason which I don't understand it appears Alito alone will hear the case.
Alito alone heard the last case and decided against the GOP that time.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/02/21/pennsylvania-gop-leaders-ask-supreme-court-to-block-redrawn-congressional-map.html0 -
Varoufakis favours staying in and trying to reform it/make it less bad. He's a close friend of Corbyn.SeanT said:
The sensible option is leaving. The EU is irredeemably corrupt and venal. It is an overtly anti-democratic, elitist political project disguised as a friendly "economic bloc" - it's like a party where the host only reveals that its actually a swingers party and they're all gonna fuck your semi-conscious wife - once you're safely inside, seven martinis into the evening, and too drunk and slurring to drive all those many miles home.FF43 said:
Staying in the Customs Union is less controversial. Who cares if the tariff on Peruvian guano is 2% or 3% ? The sensible option is staying a member of the European Union but, hey, we voted against the sensible option. Suck it up, losers, etc,Cyclefree said:What on earth is the point of staying in the Customs Union but not the Single Market? You get the worst of all possible worlds surely? Better to stay in both than one and not the other.
Or am I missing something?
The only question is how much we have to pay the cabbie to get us the fuck out of here. It could be very very painful, or we might find some sympathetic uber dude, and we escape relatively lightly.
You would simply sit there, sullen and defeated, a cuckolded old fool downing another bottle of gin, as you listen to your wife being spit-roasted in the next room.0 -
I think you have the basis for the next UKIP PPB...SeanT said:
The sensible option is leaving. The EU is irredeemably corrupt and venal. It is an overtly anti-democratic, elitist political project disguised as a friendly "economic bloc" - it's like a party where the host only reveals that its actually a swingers party and they're all gonna fuck your semi-conscious wife - once you're safely inside, seven martinis into the evening, and too drunk and slurring to drive all those many miles home.FF43 said:
Staying in the Customs Union is less controversial. Who cares if the tariff on Peruvian guano is 2% or 3% ? The sensible option is staying a member of the European Union but, hey, we voted against the sensible option. Suck it up, losers, etc,Cyclefree said:What on earth is the point of staying in the Customs Union but not the Single Market? You get the worst of all possible worlds surely? Better to stay in both than one and not the other.
Or am I missing something?
The only question is how much we have to pay the cabbie to get us the fuck out of here. It could be very very painful, or we might find some sympathetic uber dude, and we escape relatively lightly.
You would simply sit there, sullen and defeated, a cuckolded old fool downing another bottle of gin, as you listen to your wife being spit-roasted in the next room.0 -
Can you talk me through the logic of this??NorthofStoke said:We mustn't forget the principled Labour leavers, they are mainly anti-Corbyn as well so would either abstain or vote with the Tories. I think SF taking their seats is pure fantasy but if that forced an election it would add quite a few seats to the Tory majority.
0 -
Except he missed out the bit where 'you' pay for all the booze...TGOHF said:
I think you have the basis for the next UKIP PPB...SeanT said:
The sensible option is leaving. The EU is irredeemably corrupt and venal. It is an overtly anti-democratic, elitist political project disguised as a friendly "economic bloc" - it's like a party where the host only reveals that its actually a swingers party and they're all gonna fuck your semi-conscious wife - once you're safely inside, seven martinis into the evening, and too drunk and slurring to drive all those many miles home.FF43 said:
Staying in the Customs Union is less controversial. Who cares if the tariff on Peruvian guano is 2% or 3% ? The sensible option is staying a member of the European Union but, hey, we voted against the sensible option. Suck it up, losers, etc,Cyclefree said:What on earth is the point of staying in the Customs Union but not the Single Market? You get the worst of all possible worlds surely? Better to stay in both than one and not the other.
Or am I missing something?
The only question is how much we have to pay the cabbie to get us the fuck out of here. It could be very very painful, or we might find some sympathetic uber dude, and we escape relatively lightly.
You would simply sit there, sullen and defeated, a cuckolded old fool downing another bottle of gin, as you listen to your wife being spit-roasted in the next room.0 -
Justice Alito supervises the Third Circuit which covers PennsylvaniaMikeL said:GOP going back to the Supreme Court re PA boundaries.
For some reason which I don't understand it appears Alito alone will hear the case.
Alito alone heard the last case and decided against the GOP that time.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/02/21/pennsylvania-gop-leaders-ask-supreme-court-to-block-redrawn-congressional-map.html0 -
Corbyn could only make that pledge at the GE as he promised to leave the Single MarketFrancisUrquhart said:
Perhaps they will find a form of words a bit like Corbyn GE pledge on managing immigration. The reality is he doesn't believe in it and he wouldn't cut the numbers, but I bet loads of people think he would based upon some vague promises he gave.HYUFD said:
Staying in the Customs Union maybe, staying in the Single Market and leaving free movement uncontrolled maybe notFrancisUrquhart said:
It wouldn't surprise me if Labou enough of "Stokie man" if they do.SeanT said:
I disagree. He could offer a 2nd referendum, but say his personal opinion whether we should Leave or Remain is undecided. i.e. Continue the helpful vagueness, not alienate too many Leavers, but reap millions of grateful Remainers.Sean_F said:
Jeremy Corbyn going full Remain would cost his party votes, not gain them. His current stance is brilliant, in terms of maximising the Labour vote.SeanT said:
It must be very tempting for Corbyn to go full Remoaner now. It is his one BIG chance of overthrowing the government, and actually becoming Prime Minister. An incredible achievement. If he doesn't, and Brexit goes ahead, he will very probably be a loser again in 2022, if he hasn't already retired or died or whatever by then.RoyalBlue said:
Staying in a customs union and staying in a customs union and the Single Market are very different things. The former does not allow immigration control from the EU. The latter does.SeanT said:
We will never rejoin the EU after we Brexit. But will we Brexit?williamglenn said:
We'll be rule taking and cash giving from the outside. What will characterise rejoining is that we will regain a say in the affairs of the EU.TGOHF said:I'd say it is very relevant. Voters appear very resistant to change - unless the situation is so bad that lancing the boil is required - like Brexit.
Once we have left, the resistance to rejoining will be high - particularly as it will involve a lot of rule taking and cash giving.
Guido has this story.
https://twitter.com/EuroGuido/status/966735461799559168
If Corbyn backed staying in the SM, CU and a 2nd referendum (with the option of Remain) he could topple the government, & win the election. Within the next 6 months. BUT he is a lifelong eurosceptic with a history of NEVER changing his mind. A piquant moment.
Yet Full on Remoanerism goes against everything he stands for, he is a Bennite eurosceptic, to the bone.
What price power, Jeremy?0 -
Arsenal.
LOLZ.
LOLZ
EPIC LOLZ.0 -
Thanks for the tip. I'll be on my guard the next time I'm invited to a party in a country house in the middle of nowhere.SeanT said:
The sensible option is leaving. The EU is irredeemably corrupt and venal. It is an overtly anti-democratic, elitist political project disguised as a friendly "economic bloc" - it's like a party where the host only reveals that its actually a swingers party and they're all gonna fuck your semi-conscious wife - once you're safely inside, seven martinis into the evening, and too drunk and slurring to drive all those many miles home.FF43 said:
Staying in the Customs Union is less controversial. Who cares if the tariff on Peruvian guano is 2% or 3% ? The sensible option is staying a member of the European Union but, hey, we voted against the sensible option. Suck it up, losers, etc,Cyclefree said:What on earth is the point of staying in the Customs Union but not the Single Market? You get the worst of all possible worlds surely? Better to stay in both than one and not the other.
Or am I missing something?
The only question is how much we have to pay the cabbie to get us the fuck out of here. It could be very very painful, or we might find some sympathetic uber dude, and we escape relatively lightly.
You would simply sit there, sullen and defeated, a cuckolded old fool downing another bottle of gin, as you listen to your wife being spit-roasted in the next room.0 -
I'd get sacked, prosecuted by the regulator, and probably in the end imprisoned if I produced such a graph.TudorRose said:
And I think Mike's assertion about 'too young to vote' isn't right either. According to the article the movement shown is amongst those who abstained in 2016.Omnium said:The header's graph drawer needs to spend a great deal of time in detention with Trump's teachers.
Around 2% of the current electorate were too young to have voted in the Brexit Ref as far as I can see.
0 -
Perhaps knights of the realm are exempt such mundane restrictions?!Omnium said:
I'd get sacked, prosecuted by the regulator, and probably in the end imprisoned if I produced such a graph.TudorRose said:
And I think Mike's assertion about 'too young to vote' isn't right either. According to the article the movement shown is amongst those who abstained in 2016.Omnium said:The header's graph drawer needs to spend a great deal of time in detention with Trump's teachers.
Around 2% of the current electorate were too young to have voted in the Brexit Ref as far as I can see.0 -
-
Ah OK - thanks.TheScreamingEagles said:
Justice Alito supervises the Third Circuit which covers PennsylvaniaMikeL said:GOP going back to the Supreme Court re PA boundaries.
For some reason which I don't understand it appears Alito alone will hear the case.
Alito alone heard the last case and decided against the GOP that time.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/02/21/pennsylvania-gop-leaders-ask-supreme-court-to-block-redrawn-congressional-map.html
I guess that's lucky for the GOP - though he found against them last time, so who knows what he might do this time.0 -
Its the Minehead By Election
Mr Hilter is not standing unfortunately0 -
I think he's going to tell them to suck it up.MikeL said:
Ah OK - thanks.TheScreamingEagles said:
Justice Alito supervises the Third Circuit which covers PennsylvaniaMikeL said:GOP going back to the Supreme Court re PA boundaries.
For some reason which I don't understand it appears Alito alone will hear the case.
Alito alone heard the last case and decided against the GOP that time.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/02/21/pennsylvania-gop-leaders-ask-supreme-court-to-block-redrawn-congressional-map.html
I guess that's lucky for the GOP - though he found against them last time, so who knows what he might do this time.0 -
hmm.... I hope ostersunds fk know what they are doing and to whom...
they'll be next...
CHANGE IS COMING.0 -
0
-
Jeremy Corbyn could use a key Brexit speech on Monday to pave the way for Labour to inflict a Commons defeat on the government, by backing a rebel Tory amendment seeking to keep Britain in “a customs union”.
With Theresa May expected to unveil her vision for departure from the EU next week, following eight hours of talks with key ministers at the prime minister’s Chequers country retreat, she now faces the prospect of Labour sabotaging the carefully choreographed process.
In what will be a closely watched speech, Corbyn is expected to signal that Labour is prepared to back the UK staying in a customs union with the EU.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/22/jeremy-corbyn-could-back-remaining-in-eu-customs-union?CMP=twt_gu0 -
TheScreamingEagles said:TheScreamingEagles said:
As if that would solve anything...TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
-
Hmm. I can think of a handful who'd go for it.Sean_F said:
Ten or so Conservative MP's would have to be persuaded that stopping Brexit was (a) worth putting in a very left wing government and (b) Worth terminating their careers. That's a tall order.SeanT said:
How can you be so sure about Clarke and Soubry?Mortimer said:
I do quite like it, true - it just seems to sum up those who haven't understood that the referendum is over fantastically.Gardenwalker said:
I knew you’d pop up with your Pacific Island jibes.Mortimer said:Pacific Islander Remainers get very excited at every tidbit of anti-Brexit news or even rumours.
It has never helped their cause. In fact, it hurts it.
This is the golden rule of Brexit.
The question is not, what is the route to Remain? The question is, what is Corbyn’s route to power?
Personally, I’d prefer to Brexit than see Corbyn as PM.
The main obstacle to Corbyn's route to power is time. He doesn't have it. Every year that Labour are on a war footing, they lose funds, and power of novelty and surprise. Once Brexit occurs, he also loses the backing of a chunk of Remainers who are currently holding their noses to support him.
The other thing, of course, is the numbers. There is no way that Clarke votes down a government bill that risks Corbz getting in. Ditto soubry.
Michael Heseltine is on record as saying he thinks a Corbyn government would be less damaging than Brexit.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/michael-heseltine-brexit-latest-jeremy-corbyn-theresa-may-a8129541.html
Why should his very close allies like Clarke feel differently?0 -
Staying in both the customs union and single market would render Brexit almost entirely pointless, giving the UK near permanent vassal state status. It would be better to just Remain in the EU.SeanT said:
No, you're not. Staying in the CU but not SM is lunatic, it is Double Plus Bad Brexit.Cyclefree said:What on earth is the point of staying in the Customs Union but not the Single Market? You get the worst of all possible worlds surely? Better to stay in both than one and not the other.
Or am I missing something?
Stay in both or leave both, or get a bespoke version of leaving both. TMay is still aiming for the last and I think (for all her many many faults) she still has a chance. There is turmoil within the EU as well (for all the apparently united front of the Commission). Several governments and lots of MEPs now want to call off the war, and give the UK a "reasonable" deal.
Even some hardcore Federalists have seen that positively and pointlessly trying to harm Britain is actively counter-productive, and will encourage eurosceptic voting in their own countries. Cf the AfD in Germany.
If Brexit is to be done, it should done slowly, carefully and properly, as a process, but with the emphasis very much on properly.0 -
Not until their voices have broken, no.Casino_Royale said:0 -
Might there be ten or more Conservative MPs who thought getting Brexit was worth putting in a very left wing government and terminating their careers?Casino_Royale said:
Hmm. I can think of a handful who'd go for it.Sean_F said:
Ten or so Conservative MP's would have to be persuaded that stopping Brexit was (a) worth putting in a very left wing government and (b) Worth terminating their careers. That's a tall order.SeanT said:
How can you be so sure about Clarke and Soubry?Mortimer said:
I do quite like it, true - it just seems to sum up those who haven't understood that the referendum is over fantastically.Gardenwalker said:
I knew you’d pop up with your Pacific Island jibes.Mortimer said:Pacific Islander Remainers get very excited at every tidbit of anti-Brexit news or even rumours.
It has never helped their cause. In fact, it hurts it.
This is the golden rule of Brexit.
The question is not, what is the route to Remain? The question is, what is Corbyn’s route to power?
Personally, I’d prefer to Brexit than see Corbyn as PM.
The main obstacle to Corbyn's route to power is time. He doesn't have it. Every year that Labour are on a war footing, they lose funds, and power of novelty and surprise. Once Brexit occurs, he also loses the backing of a chunk of Remainers who are currently holding their noses to support him.
The other thing, of course, is the numbers. There is no way that Clarke votes down a government bill that risks Corbz getting in. Ditto soubry.
Michael Heseltine is on record as saying he thinks a Corbyn government would be less damaging than Brexit.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/michael-heseltine-brexit-latest-jeremy-corbyn-theresa-may-a8129541.html
Why should his very close allies like Clarke feel differently?0 -
I think Corbyn is up to something.Sean_F said:
At 7%, I think we've reached the bedrock of Lib Dem support.SeanT said:
But nearly all the Lib Dem voters in these seats would back Corbyn. Surely. That's 2.3m voters.Sean_F said:
He already has the vast majority of Remainers. There are penny packets of Remain voters he can win from the Lib Dems and SNP, but he'd be ceding ground in the East and West Midlands and parts of the North to the Conservatives.SeanT said:
I disagree. He could offer a too many Leavers, but reap millions of grateful Remainers.Sean_F said:
Jeremy Corbyn going full Remain would cost his party votes, not gain them. His current stance is brilliant, in terms of maximising the Labour vote.SeanT said:
It must be verRoyalBlue said:
Staying in a customs union and staying in a customs union and the Single Market are very different things. The former does not allow immigration control from the EU. The latter does.SeanT said:
We will never rejoin the EU after we Brexit. But will we Brexit?williamglenn said:
We'll be rule taking and cash giving from the outside. What will characterise rejoining is that we will regain a say in the affairs of the EU.TGOHF said:I'd say it is very relevant. Voters appear very resistant to change - unless the situation is so bad that lancing the boil is required - like Brexit.
Once we have left, the resistance to rejoining will be high - particularly as it will involve a lot of rule taking and cash giving.
Guido has this story.
https://twitter.com/EuroGuido/status/966735461799559168
If Corbyn backed staying in the SM, CU and a 2nd referendum (with the option of Remain) he could topple the government, & win the election. Within the next 6 months. BUT he is a lifelong eurosceptic with a history of NEVER changing his mind. A piquant moment.
What price power, Jeremy?
It would be a very very tight election. Just like the referendum. And Corbyn would be in with a real shout of winning.
Two things are keeping Tory support at 40% +. Brexit and Corbyn. Neither group shifts if Corbyn backs Remain.
But, some Labour Leave supporters will shift. There are no seats that Labour gain gain from the Lib Dems. Even if Labour gained 20 off the SNP, if they lose places like Ashfield, Bishop Auckland, Stoke North, they move further away from power.
He can spring quick surprises that May simply cannot react to, as he showed in the election debate ambush.
She couldn't pick a dish from an Indian takeaway without doing a review for 6 months first.0 -
Arsenal are gooners
sorry i meant
Arsenal are gonners0 -
I can't.Casino_Royale said:
Hmm. I can think of a handful who'd go for it.Sean_F said:
Ten or so Conservative MP's would have to be persuaded that stopping Brexit was (a) worth putting in a very left wing government and (b) Worth terminating their careers. That's a tall order.SeanT said:
How can you be so sure about Clarke and Soubry?Mortimer said:
I do quite like it, true - it just seems to sum up those who haven't understood that the referendum is over fantastically.Gardenwalker said:
I knew you’d pop up with your Pacific Island jibes.Mortimer said:Pacific Islander Remainers get very excited at every tidbit of anti-Brexit news or even rumours.
It has never helped their cause. In fact, it hurts it.
This is the golden rule of Brexit.
The question is not, what is the route to Remain? The question is, what is Corbyn’s route to power?
Personally, I’d prefer to Brexit than see Corbyn as PM.
The main obstacle to Corbyn's route to power is time. He doesn't have it. Every year that Labour are on a war footing, they lose funds, and power of novelty and surprise. Once Brexit occurs, he also loses the backing of a chunk of Remainers who are currently holding their noses to support him.
The other thing, of course, is the numbers. There is no way that Clarke votes down a government bill that risks Corbz getting in. Ditto soubry.
Michael Heseltine is on record as saying he thinks a Corbyn government would be less damaging than Brexit.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/michael-heseltine-brexit-latest-jeremy-corbyn-theresa-may-a8129541.html
Why should his very close allies like Clarke feel differently?0 -
It would further accentuate divisions within the country and, if a 2nd referendum was forced, and lost by Leave, narrowly, the bitterness and rifts would last for decades.Sean_F said:
He already has the vast majority of Remainers. There are penny packets of Remain voters he can win from the Lib Dems and SNP, but he'd be ceding ground in the East and West Midlands and parts of the North to the Conservatives.SeanT said:
I disagree. He could offer a 2nd referendum, but say his personal opinion whether we should Leave or Remain is undecided. i.e. Continue the helpful vagueness, not alienate too many Leavers, but reap millions of grateful Remainers.Sean_F said:
Jeremy Corbyn going full Remain would cost his party votes, not gain them. His current stance is brilliant, in terms of maximising the Labour vote.SeanT said:
It must be very tempting for Corbyn to go full Remoaner now. It is his one BIG chance of overthrowing the government, and actually becoming Prime Minister. An incredible achievement. If he doesn't, and Brexit goes ahead, he will very probably be a loser again in 2022, if he hasn't already retired or died or whatever by then.RoyalBlue said:
Staying in a customs union and staying in a customs union and the Single Market are very different things. The former does not allow immigration control from the EU. The latter does.SeanT said:
We will never rejoin the EU after we Brexit. But will we Brexit?williamglenn said:
We'll be rule taking and cash giving from the outside. What will characterise rejoining is that we will regain a say in the affairs of the EU.TGOHF said:I'd say it is very relevant. Voters appear very resistant to change - unless the situation is so bad that lancing the boil is required - like Brexit.
Once we have left, the resistance to rejoining will be high - particularly as it will involve a lot of rule taking and cash giving.
Guido has this story.
https://twitter.com/EuroGuido/status/966735461799559168
If Corbyn backed staying in the SM, CU and a 2nd referendum (with the option of Remain) he could topple the government, & win the election. Within the next 6 months. BUT he is a lifelong eurosceptic with a history of NEVER changing his mind. A piquant moment.
Yet Full on Remoanerism goes against everything he stands for, he is a Bennite eurosceptic, to the bone.
What price power, Jeremy?
The UK would be torn apart by it, and unable to do very much at all even as a full EU member.0 -
They were but pulled one backbigjohnowls said:Arsenal are gooners
sorry i meant
Arsenal are gonners0 -
FAke news....still winning 4-2 on aggregate.bigjohnowls said:Arsenal are gooners
sorry i meant
Arsenal are gonners0 -
I don't think so, but I think Clarke and Soubry feel extremely strongly about it, and are unpredictable.AlastairMeeks said:
Might there be ten or more Conservative MPs who thought getting Brexit was worth putting in a very left wing government and terminating their careers?Casino_Royale said:
Hmm. I can think of a handful who'd go for it.Sean_F said:
Ten or so Conservative MP's would have to be persuaded that stopping Brexit was (a) worth putting in a very left wing government and (b) Worth terminating their careers. That's a tall order.SeanT said:
How can you be so sure about Clarke and Soubry?Mortimer said:
I do quite like it, true - it just seems to sum up those who haven't understood that the referendum is over fantastically.Gardenwalker said:
I knew you’d pop up with your Pacific Island jibes.Mortimer said:Pacific Islander Remainers get very excited at every tidbit of anti-Brexit news or even rumours.
It has never helped their cause. In fact, it hurts it.
This is the golden rule of Brexit.
The question is not, what is the route to Remain? The question is, what is Corbyn’s route to power?
Personally, I’d prefer to Brexit than see Corbyn as PM.
The main obstacle to Corbyn's route to power is time. He doesn't have it. Every year that Labour are on a war footing, they lose funds, and power of novelty and surprise. Once Brexit occurs, he also loses the backing of a chunk of Remainers who are currently holding their noses to support him.
The other thing, of course, is the numbers. There is no way that Clarke votes down a government bill that risks Corbz getting in. Ditto soubry.
Michael Heseltine is on record as saying he thinks a Corbyn government would be less damaging than Brexit.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/michael-heseltine-brexit-latest-jeremy-corbyn-theresa-may-a8129541.html
Why should his very close allies like Clarke feel differently?
Neither are socialists, but if they are stepping down at the next election, think Corbyn is inevitable, and May doomed anyway, with a Brexiteer as the only (and inevitable) next Tory alternative, then I wouldn't rule anything out.0 -
Clarke definitely, Soubry and Grieve possibly.....but if the threat was imposed deselection for failure to support an effective Vote of Confidence, then who else might be on that list? Doubt Bob Neill would go that far, and Morgan and Greening assuredly not IMO.Casino_Royale said:
Hmm. I can think of a handful who'd go for it.Sean_F said:
Ten or so Conservative MP's would have to be persuaded that stopping Brexit was (a) worth putting in a very left wing government and (b) Worth terminating their careers. That's a tall order.SeanT said:
How can you be so sure about Clarke and Soubry?Mortimer said:
I do quite like it, true - it just seems to sum up those who haven't understood that the referendum is over fantastically.Gardenwalker said:
I knew you’d pop up with your Pacific Island jibes.Mortimer said:Pacific Islander Remainers get very excited at every tidbit of anti-Brexit news or even rumours.
It has never helped their cause. In fact, it hurts it.
This is the golden rule of Brexit.
The question is not, what is the route to Remain? The question is, what is Corbyn’s route to power?
Personally, I’d prefer to Brexit than see Corbyn as PM.
The main obstacle to Corbyn's route to power is time. He doesn't have it. Every year that Labour are on a war footing, they lose funds, and power of novelty and surprise. Once Brexit occurs, he also loses the backing of a chunk of Remainers who are currently holding their noses to support him.
The other thing, of course, is the numbers. There is no way that Clarke votes down a government bill that risks Corbz getting in. Ditto soubry.
Michael Heseltine is on record as saying he thinks a Corbyn government would be less damaging than Brexit.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/michael-heseltine-brexit-latest-jeremy-corbyn-theresa-may-a8129541.html
Why should his very close allies like Clarke feel differently?0 -
Reread what I wrote. Leave have all the unhinged ideologues.Casino_Royale said:
I don't think so, but I think Clarke and Soubry feel extremely strongly about it, and are unpredictable.AlastairMeeks said:
Might there be ten or more Conservative MPs who thought getting Brexit was worth putting in a very left wing government and terminating their careers?Casino_Royale said:
Hmm. I can think of a handful who'd go for it.Sean_F said:
Ten or so Conservative MP's would have to be persuaded that stopping Brexit was (a) worth putting in a very left wing government and (b) Worth terminating their careers. That's a tall order.SeanT said:
How can you be so sure about Clarke and Soubry?Mortimer said:
I do quite like it, true - it just seems to sum up those who haven't understood that the referendum is over fantastically.Gardenwalker said:
I knew you’d pop up with your Pacific Island jibes.Mortimer said:Pacific Islander Remainers get very excited at every tidbit of anti-Brexit news or even rumours.
It has never helped their cause. In fact, it hurts it.
This is the golden rule of Brexit.
The question is not, what is the route to Remain? The question is, what is Corbyn’s route to power?
Personally, I’d prefer to Brexit than see Corbyn as PM.
The main obstacle to Corbyn's route to power is time. He doesn't have it. Every year that Labour are on a war footing, they lose funds, and power of novelty and surprise. Once Brexit occurs, he also loses the backing of a chunk of Remainers who are currently holding their noses to support him.
The other thing, of course, is the numbers. There is no way that Clarke votes down a government bill that risks Corbz getting in. Ditto soubry.
Michael Heseltine is on record as saying he thinks a Corbyn government would be less damaging than Brexit.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/michael-heseltine-brexit-latest-jeremy-corbyn-theresa-may-a8129541.html
Why should his very close allies like Clarke feel differently?
Neither are socialists, but if they are stepping down at the next election, think Corbyn is inevitable, and May doomed anyway, with a Brexiteer as the only (and inevitable) next Tory alternative, then I wouldn't rule anything out.0 -
Clarke is standing down as far as I am awareCasino_Royale said:
I don't think so, but I think Clarke and Soubry feel extremely strongly about it, and are unpredictable.AlastairMeeks said:
Might there be ten or more Conservative MPs who thought getting Brexit was worth putting in a very left wing government and terminating their careers?Casino_Royale said:
Hmm. I can think of a handful who'd go for it.Sean_F said:
Ten or so Conservative MP's would have to be persuaded that stopping Brexit was (a) worth putting in a very left wing government and (b) Worth terminating their careers. That's a tall order.SeanT said:
How can you be so sure about Clarke and Soubry?Mortimer said:
I do quite like it, true - it just seems to sum up those who haven't understood that the referendum is over fantastically.Gardenwalker said:
I knew you’d pop up with your Pacific Island jibes.Mortimer said:Pacific Islander Remainers get very excited at every tidbit of anti-Brexit news or even rumours.
It has never helped their cause. In fact, it hurts it.
This is the golden rule of Brexit.
The question is not, what is the route to Remain? The question is, what is Corbyn’s route to power?
Personally, I’d prefer to Brexit than see Corbyn as PM.
The main obstacle to Corbyn's route to power is time. He doesn't have it. Every year that Labour are on a war footing, they lose funds, and power of novelty and surprise. Once Brexit occurs, he also loses the backing of a chunk of Remainers who are currently holding their noses to support him.
The other thing, of course, is the numbers. There is no way that Clarke votes down a government bill that risks Corbz getting in. Ditto soubry.
Michael Heseltine is on record as saying he thinks a Corbyn government would be less damaging than Brexit.j
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/michael-heseltine-brexit-latest-jeremy-corbyn-theresa-may-a8129541.html
Why should his very close allies like Clarke feel differently?
Neither are socialists, but if they are stepping down at the next election, think Corbyn is inevitable, and May doomed anyway, with a Brexiteer as the only (and inevitable) next Tory alternative, then I wouldn't rule anything out.0 -
Sarah Wollaston and Heidi Allen?JohnO said:]
Clarke definitely, Soubry and Grieve possibly.....but if the threat was imposed deselection for failure to support an effective Vote of Confidence, then who else might be on that list? Doubt Bob Neill would go that far, and Morgan and Greening assuredly not IMO.
I can see people like Andrew Bridgen and Jacob Rees-Mogg bringing down the government if the Brexit isn't pure enough for them.0 -
BooFrancisUrquhart said:
FAke news....still winning 4-2 on aggregate.bigjohnowls said:Arsenal are gooners
sorry i meant
Arsenal are gonners0 -
I'm not sure that Anna Soubry and Heidi Allen can remain for very much longer in the same party as Jacob Rees Mogg and Bill Cash.0
-
I don't care if it's Ken Clarke opposing a hard Brexit or Rees Mogg bring down the government over an impure Brexit, if either of them dares to bring about a GE that Corbyn would almost certainly win.. I'll string em up by the bollocks myselfTheScreamingEagles said:
Sarah Wollaston and Heidi Allen?JohnO said:]
Clarke definitely, Soubry and Grieve possibly.....but if the threat was imposed deselection for failure to support an effective Vote of Confidence, then who else might be on that list? Doubt Bob Neill would go that far, and Morgan and Greening assuredly not IMO.
I can see people like Andrew Bridgen and Jacob Rees-Mogg bringing down the government if the Brexit isn't pure enough for them.0 -
I think Clarke is too much of a Conservative loyalist.JohnO said:
Clarke definitely, Soubry and Grieve possibly.....but if the threat was imposed deselection for failure to support an effective Vote of Confidence, then who else might be on that list? Doubt Bob Neill would go that far, and Morgan and Greening assuredly not IMO.Casino_Royale said:
Hmm. I can think of a handful who'd go for it.Sean_F said:
Ten or so Conservative MP's would have to be persuaded that stopping Brexit was (a) worth putting in a very left wing government and (b) Worth terminating their careers. That's a tall order.SeanT said:
How can you be so sure about Clarke and Soubry?Mortimer said:
I do quite like it, true - it just seems to sum up those who haven't understood that the referendum is over fantastically.Gardenwalker said:
I knew you’d pop up with your Pacific Island jibes.Mortimer said:Pacific Islander Remainers get very excited at every tidbit of anti-Brexit news or even rumours.
It has never helped their cause. In fact, it hurts it.
This is the golden rule of Brexit.
The question is not, what is the route to Remain? The question is, what is Corbyn’s route to power?
Personally, I’d prefer to Brexit than see Corbyn as PM.
The main obstacle to Corbyn's route to power is time. He doesn't have it. Every year that Labour are on a war footing, they lose funds, and power of novelty and surprise. Once Brexit occurs, he also loses the backing of a chunk of Remainers who are currently holding their noses to support him.
The other thing, of course, is the numbers. There is no way that Clarke votes down a government bill that risks Corbz getting in. Ditto soubry.
Michael Heseltine is on record as saying he thinks a Corbyn government would be less damaging than Brexit.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/michael-heseltine-brexit-latest-jeremy-corbyn-theresa-may-a8129541.html
Why should his very close allies like Clarke feel differently?0 -
Anna's a fiscal conservative and free market Thatcherite.AndyJS said:I'm not sure that Anna Soubry and Heidi Allen can remain for very much longer in the same party as Jacob Rees Mogg and Bill Cash.
There's literally no home apart from the Tory Party for people like she and I.0 -
For all those iCrap fanboys....cough cough TSE...new iPads in March.0
-
Allen more than Wollaston (who is enjoying being Chairman of the Health Select Committee). But would Allen really wish to give up her ultra safe seat? On balance I’d say neither.TheScreamingEagles said:
Sarah Wollaston and Heidi Allen?JohnO said:]
Clarke definitely, Soubry and Grieve possibly.....but if the threat was imposed deselection for failure to support an effective Vote of Confidence, then who else might be on that list? Doubt Bob Neill would go that far, and Morgan and Greening assuredly not IMO.
I can see people like Andrew Bridgen and Jacob Rees-Mogg bringing down the government if the Brexit isn't pure enough for them.0 -
I listened to Ken Clarke a couple of years ago, he hates the hard left more than he hates Eurosceptics.Pulpstar said:
I don't care if it's Ken Clarke opposing a hard Brexit or Rees Mogg bring down the government over an impure Brexit, if either of them dares to bring about a GE that Corbyn would almost certainly win.. I'll string em up by the bollocks myselfTheScreamingEagles said:
Sarah Wollaston and Heidi Allen?JohnO said:]
Clarke definitely, Soubry and Grieve possibly.....but if the threat was imposed deselection for failure to support an effective Vote of Confidence, then who else might be on that list? Doubt Bob Neill would go that far, and Morgan and Greening assuredly not IMO.
I can see people like Andrew Bridgen and Jacob Rees-Mogg bringing down the government if the Brexit isn't pure enough for them.0 -
Link please.FrancisUrquhart said:For all those iCrap fanboys....cough cough TSE...new iPads in March.
0 -
https://www.laptopmag.com/articles/new-ipads-marchTheScreamingEagles said:
Link please.FrancisUrquhart said:For all those iCrap fanboys....cough cough TSE...new iPads in March.
I hope you haven't bought one of those iCrap Homepods? With useless Siri and piss poor sound quality.0 -
Labour is a broad church Kendall, Cooper, Corbyn McDonnell the difference being those on the left of the party are prepared to go with the flow over Europe.AndyJS said:I'm not sure that Anna Soubry and Heidi Allen can remain for very much longer in the same party as Jacob Rees Mogg and Bill Cash.
For those on the Right of the Tory party BREXIT is everything0 -
TaFrancisUrquhart said:
https://www.laptopmag.com/articles/new-ipads-marchTheScreamingEagles said:
Link please.FrancisUrquhart said:For all those iCrap fanboys....cough cough TSE...new iPads in March.
I hope you haven't bought one of those iCrap Homepods? With useless Siri and piss poor sound quality.0 -
Beware the iPads of March ...FrancisUrquhart said:
https://www.laptopmag.com/articles/new-ipads-marchTheScreamingEagles said:
Link please.FrancisUrquhart said:For all those iCrap fanboys....cough cough TSE...new iPads in March.
I hope you haven't bought one of those iCrap Homepods? With useless Siri and piss poor sound quality.0 -
I wonder if they might abstain and allow the customs union amendment pass that way.JohnO said:
Allen more than Wollaston (who is enjoying being Chairman of the Health Select Committee). But would Allen really wish to give up her ultra safe seat? On balance I’d say neither.TheScreamingEagles said:
Sarah Wollaston and Heidi Allen?JohnO said:]
Clarke definitely, Soubry and Grieve possibly.....but if the threat was imposed deselection for failure to support an effective Vote of Confidence, then who else might be on that list? Doubt Bob Neill would go that far, and Morgan and Greening assuredly not IMO.
I can see people like Andrew Bridgen and Jacob Rees-Mogg bringing down the government if the Brexit isn't pure enough for them.0 -
Given the past 6 months, beware all iCrap stuff. It appears they have replaced their software development team with a load of monkeys with typewriters.JosiasJessop said:
Beware the iPads of March ...FrancisUrquhart said:
https://www.laptopmag.com/articles/new-ipads-marchTheScreamingEagles said:
Link please.FrancisUrquhart said:For all those iCrap fanboys....cough cough TSE...new iPads in March.
I hope you haven't bought one of those iCrap Homepods? With useless Siri and piss poor sound quality.
As well as lots of cock-ups with IOS 11, it is interesting to see that Siri on the delayed Homepod is still years behind Amazon and Google current products (and state of the art in lab conditions is significantly better than those two*).
* I was particularly impressed with some of the stuff Facebook has been working on.0 -
https://www.twitter.com/thehill/status/966763294248919041
Trump turning on videogames is a bad move for him.0 -
She’s a Tory social democrat....certainly a very rare breed these days but still within the broad and wide parameters of the party.Sean_F said:
I don't understand why Heidi Allen joined the Conservatives.AndyJS said:I'm not sure that Anna Soubry and Heidi Allen can remain for very much longer in the same party as Jacob Rees Mogg and Bill Cash.
0 -
Don't they have ratings in the US? Because they do here, not that they are really enforced.Alistair said:www.twitter.com/thehill/status/966763294248919041
Trump turning on videogames is a bad move for him.0 -
I doubt it on a vote as important as this could beTheScreamingEagles said:
I wonder if they might abstain and allow the customs union amendment pass that way.JohnO said:
Allen more than Wollaston (who is enjoying being Chairman of the Health Select Committee). But would Allen really wish to give up her ultra safe seat? On balance I’d say neither.TheScreamingEagles said:
Sarah Wollaston and Heidi Allen?JohnO said:]
Clarke definitely, Soubry and Grieve possibly.....but if the threat was imposed deselection for failure to support an effective Vote of Confidence, then who else might be on that list? Doubt Bob Neill would go that far, and Morgan and Greening assuredly not IMO.
I can see people like Andrew Bridgen and Jacob Rees-Mogg bringing down the government if the Brexit isn't pure enough for them.0 -
I know I keep on banging on that universal credit is going to be a disaster for the party (another piece of brilliance from IDS)
THE full impact of the new Universal Credit (UC) benefit system on East Lothian has been laid bare in a shocking new report that shows that nearly three-quarters of all tenants on UC in the county are living with rent arrears.
More than 2,500 council tenants (30 per cent) were shown as having rent arrears at the end of December last year.
But a staggering 72 per cent (1,015) of local authority tenants on UC were in arrears, owing close to a million pounds (£981,745.63) to the local authority.
The period since the new combined benefit system was introduced was described by a council official as “extremely challenging”, adding that the system had created an “unprecedented” amount of work that had “really tested the resolve of those working to address the impact”.
https://tinyurl.com/y9ydc35c0 -
-
It’s a high risk strategy - didn’t work for poor Johnny Major - but if the alternative to voting with the govt would be forced deselection (and I think it should be) on such a fundamental matter, then I (marginally) believe that both would toe the line.TheScreamingEagles said:
I wonder if they might abstain and allow the customs union amendment pass that way.JohnO said:
Allen more than Wollaston (who is enjoying being Chairman of the Health Select Committee). But would Allen really wish to give up her ultra safe seat? On balance I’d say neither.TheScreamingEagles said:
Sarah Wollaston and Heidi Allen?JohnO said:]
Clarke definitely, Soubry and Grieve possibly.....but if the threat was imposed deselection for failure to support an effective Vote of Confidence, then who else might be on that list? Doubt Bob Neill would go that far, and Morgan and Greening assuredly not IMO.
I can see people like Andrew Bridgen and Jacob Rees-Mogg bringing down the government if the Brexit isn't pure enough for them.
(Believe me, I have as much love for Bridgen as I do for Baker)0 -
-
Britain 2030 under Maomentumers....once Jezza has killed the city, banned the free press he doesn't like and signed us to the worst possible EU deal...
Venezuela says its cryptocurrency raised $735 million—but it’s a farce
But the government hasn't provided any way to independently verify that $735 million figure. And there's reason to doubt almost everything the Venezuelan government has said about the project.
The presale was a disorganized mess, with basic technical details still being worked out after the sale supposedly began. The petro network itself hasn't launched yet—allegedly that will happen next month—and the government has hardly released any information about how it's going to work.
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/02/venezuela-says-its-cryptocurrency-raised-735-million-but-its-a-farce/
0 -
I hold Bridgen and Baker one rung below Mark Reckless.JohnO said:
It’s a high risk strategy - didn’t work for poor Johnny Major - but if the alternative to voting with the govt would be forced deselection (and I think it should be) on such a fundamental matter, then I (marginally) believe that both would toe the line.TheScreamingEagles said:
I wonder if they might abstain and allow the customs union amendment pass that way.JohnO said:
Allen more than Wollaston (who is enjoying being Chairman of the Health Select Committee). But would Allen really wish to give up her ultra safe seat? On balance I’d say neither.TheScreamingEagles said:
Sarah Wollaston and Heidi Allen?JohnO said:]
Clarke definitely, Soubry and Grieve possibly.....but if the threat was imposed deselection for failure to support an effective Vote of Confidence, then who else might be on that list? Doubt Bob Neill would go that far, and Morgan and Greening assuredly not IMO.
I can see people like Andrew Bridgen and Jacob Rees-Mogg bringing down the government if the Brexit isn't pure enough for them.
(Believe me, I have as much love for Bridgen as I do for Baker)0 -
bigjohnowls said:
Arsenal are gooners
sorry i meant
Arsenal are gonners
Arsenal winning 4-2 but Celtic losing to a small village somewhere in Europe.
0 -
"Judge halts FGM trial after photos show child to be unharmed"
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/judge-halts-fgm-trial-after-photos-show-child-to-be-unharmed-zl3b5z5080 -
Clarke redwood pact... mark 2TheScreamingEagles said:
I listened to Ken Clarke a couple of years ago, he hates the hard left more than he hates Eurosceptics.Pulpstar said:
I don't care if it's Ken Clarke opposing a hard Brexit or Rees Mogg bring down the government over an impure Brexit, if either of them dares to bring about a GE that Corbyn would almost certainly win.. I'll string em up by the bollocks myselfTheScreamingEagles said:
Sarah Wollaston and Heidi Allen?JohnO said:]
Clarke definitely, Soubry and Grieve possibly.....but if the threat was imposed deselection for failure to support an effective Vote of Confidence, then who else might be on that list? Doubt Bob Neill would go that far, and Morgan and Greening assuredly not IMO.
I can see people like Andrew Bridgen and Jacob Rees-Mogg bringing down the government if the Brexit isn't pure enough for them.0 -
So out of all the 1000s of genuine cases, the authorities manage to pick a case that isn't....AndyJS said:"Judge halts FGM trial after photos show child to be unharmed"
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/judge-halts-fgm-trial-after-photos-show-child-to-be-unharmed-zl3b5z5080 -
They do have ratings already, for both films and videogames. Donald Trump is a dumbo.FrancisUrquhart said:
Don't they have ratings in the US? Because they do here, not that they are really enforced.Alistair said:www.twitter.com/thehill/status/966763294248919041
Trump turning on videogames is a bad move for him.0 -
That is largely an issue with the delays in receiving UC, which are gradually being ironed out as even that report says by intervening early for those having difficulties, rather than UC itself.TheScreamingEagles said:I know I keep on banging on that universal credit is going to be a disaster for the party (another piece of brilliance from IDS)
THE full impact of the new Universal Credit (UC) benefit system on East Lothian has been laid bare in a shocking new report that shows that nearly three-quarters of all tenants on UC in the county are living with rent arrears.
More than 2,500 council tenants (30 per cent) were shown as having rent arrears at the end of December last year.
But a staggering 72 per cent (1,015) of local authority tenants on UC were in arrears, owing close to a million pounds (£981,745.63) to the local authority.
The period since the new combined benefit system was introduced was described by a council official as “extremely challenging”, adding that the system had created an “unprecedented” amount of work that had “really tested the resolve of those working to address the impact”.
https://tinyurl.com/y9ydc35c
UC itself will end the current problem with the benefits system whereby all benefits can be lost if you work more than 16 hours a week.0 -
Is the ESRB rating actually a law, or just a guideline?Alistair said:
They do have ratings already, for both films and videogames. Donald Trump is a dumbo.FrancisUrquhart said:
Don't they have ratings in the US? Because they do here, not that they are really enforced.Alistair said:www.twitter.com/thehill/status/966763294248919041
Trump turning on videogames is a bad move for him.0 -
For some reason they picked a case where even if it had been FGM it was of the ceremonial pin-prick variety.FrancisUrquhart said:
So out of all the 1000s of genuine cases, the authorities manage to pick a case that isn't....AndyJS said:"Judge halts FGM trial after photos show child to be unharmed"
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/judge-halts-fgm-trial-after-photos-show-child-to-be-unharmed-zl3b5z5080 -
Voluntary.RobD said:
Is the ESRB rating actually a law, or just a guideline?Alistair said:
They do have ratings already, for both films and videogames. Donald Trump is a dumbo.FrancisUrquhart said:
Don't they have ratings in the US? Because they do here, not that they are really enforced.Alistair said:www.twitter.com/thehill/status/966763294248919041
Trump turning on videogames is a bad move for him.
Free speech and all that jazz.0
This discussion has been closed.