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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » NEW PB / Polling Matters podcast: How favourable are Brits towards different countries and how old is ‘too old’ to be PM?
On this week’s podcast Keiran and Leo look at some polling by Opinium that asks how favourable or unfavourable the British public is towards the following countries with some interesting differences by Brexit vote and age. A summary of the results can be found below:
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First
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Good to see none of them add up to more than 75%, showing there's a healthy number of people out there responding "Favourable or unfavourable to an entire country of millions of people um wtf"0
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Second! Like Remain, Corbyn & Australia. So much for the “Britain stuck in WWII mindset” narrative...0
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I've been thinking about the age thing in regards to Corbyn and this seems like a good topic to mention it.
Corbyn could fall to ill health or death, he has had however a fairly privileged start to his life and then a pretty good standard of living all the way through. Combine this with a very healthy lifestyle is probably one of the perfect candidates in terms of chances of keeping on going a lot longer than others.
Corbyn could decide he is too old, he doesn't have the energy and wants to go back to his garden. Without a fairly significant turnaround in circumstances this seems incredibly unlikely. Imagine if your life cause was politics, you cared about your politics beliefs so deeply you divorced the mother of your children because of them. You had fought your case, mostly failing for decades when out of nowhere a small opening appears. Within then the space of a couple of years you are the figurehead pushing your politics into the mainstream, a huge wave of excitement builds around you and the movement you are now leading, young people chant your name and for the first time in decades your political views have a chance of leading the country.
Can anybody in that situation imagine getting a bit tired of it all and packing it in?
The idea sounds more like wishful thinking than a realistic prospect.
About to listen to the podcast, usually enjoy them.0 -
Why England will continue to struggle to win major championships...
When they’re good, they’re very very good, when they’re bad they’re horrendous.0 -
France is far too high in that list.0
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Wonder how the results would change if you replaced the countries with the people. New Zealanders, Australians, French, Americans etcCasino_Royale said:France is far too high in that list.
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France is close behind Spain as number two holiday destination for the British, and is number one for holiday visits to the UK.Casino_Royale said:France is far too high in that list.
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order order's "Tory MP declined to attend a party" story really is quite the weakest of weak gruel, isn't it?0
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Although to be fair to those asked, France has more unfavourables than Germany.Casino_Royale said:France is far too high in that list.
Germany, that we fought two World Wars against in the last century....0 -
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TBH I'm surprised Japan's as high as it is. Memories must have died.0
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Bloody hell - 4 of our top 6 were out for a duck?0
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Their shots were completely quackers.MarqueeMark said:Bloody hell - 4 of our top 6 were out for a duck?
I'll get my coat.0 -
Aussies haven't batted yet.MarqueeMark said:Bloody hell - 4 of our top 6 were out for a duck?
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MarqueeMark said:
Although to be fair to those asked, France has more unfavourables than Germany.Casino_Royale said:France is far too high in that list.
Germany, that we fought two World Wars against in the last century....
It does seem that Britons are, after three quarters of a century, finally no longer viewing countries through the prism of WW2. They have moved on, and it seems that we have done so too, at last.OldKingCole said:TBH I'm surprised Japan's as high as it is. Memories must have died.
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Do you have a favourable opinion of Australia this morning?MarqueeMark said:Bloody hell - 4 of our top 6 were out for a duck?
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Argentina's still not popular though.Foxy said:MarqueeMark said:
Although to be fair to those asked, France has more unfavourables than Germany.Casino_Royale said:France is far too high in that list.
Germany, that we fought two World Wars against in the last century....
It does seem that Britons are, after three quarters of a century, finally no longer viewing countries through the prism of WW2. They have moved on, and it seems that we have done so too, at last.OldKingCole said:TBH I'm surprised Japan's as high as it is. Memories must have died.
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Good morning all.
I used to think I hated the French, until I spent more time there. Then I realised I only hate Parisians.0 -
The difference between the antipodean scores and those for European countries goes a long way to explain the Brexit result. The British are still fairly neutral on the latter. I guess you'd have to blame both sides for this.0
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@MattChorley: Hammond blows up truce on Brexit. So who is sent on to the Today programme to explain the government's European policy? The health secretary0
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As well as the Falklands being more recent, there os the 1986 World Cup to feud over.OldKingCole said:
Argentina's still not popular though.Foxy said:MarqueeMark said:
Although to be fair to those asked, France has more unfavourables than Germany.Casino_Royale said:France is far too high in that list.
Germany, that we fought two World Wars against in the last century....
It does seem that Britons are, after three quarters of a century, finally no longer viewing countries through the prism of WW2. They have moved on, and it seems that we have done so too, at last.OldKingCole said:TBH I'm surprised Japan's as high as it is. Memories must have died.
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I am quite favourable towards Iran, apart from the government's dire record on human rights. This is in grounds of culture, having good friends from there, but also for diplomatic realpolitik. Iran is a powerful regional player that wants to do a deal. Saudi Arabia, Russia, Turkey and to some extent Israel aren't necessarily promoting our interest and the peace and stability of the region.0
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Interesting tweet by Hunt yesterday on the #BawaGawa case and its implications for junior doctors covering rota gaps:Scott_P said:@MattChorley: Hammond blows up truce on Brexit. So who is sent on to the Today programme to explain the government's European policy? The health secretary
https://twitter.com/Jeremy_Hunt/status/956566247084347393
It looks as if he is trying to rebuild some bridges.0 -
If this were a Scottish poll would England be below Russia but above Iran.
Malc.
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The main takeaway from the table is the very high number of "no opinions" for most countries. For example you would expect at least half the sample to have an opinion about China if they have one about Australia.0
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A lot of us have relatives who emigrated to Oz and EnZed to make new lives for themselves, often very successfully. Those 'friends and relatives' who have gone to Spain and Portugal though....felix said:The difference between the antipodean scores and those for European countries goes a long way to explain the Brexit result. The British are still fairly neutral on the latter. I guess you'd have to blame both sides for this.
Edited for FFS0 -
Any right thinking patriotic Brit should be furious at the Brexiters for diminishing us. I certainly am.Scott_P said:
Brexiters think it is a huge victory. They are cowards and fools.
C***s.
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If "Britain's stature on the world stage has diminshed", that of the USA needs an electron microscope - after electing Trump.Scott_P said:0 -
And 2002Foxy said:
As well as the Falklands being more recent, there os the 1986 World Cup to feud over.OldKingCole said:
Argentina's still not popular though.Foxy said:MarqueeMark said:
Although to be fair to those asked, France has more unfavourables than Germany.Casino_Royale said:France is far too high in that list.
Germany, that we fought two World Wars against in the last century....
It does seem that Britons are, after three quarters of a century, finally no longer viewing countries through the prism of WW2. They have moved on, and it seems that we have done so too, at last.OldKingCole said:TBH I'm surprised Japan's as high as it is. Memories must have died.
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One might say it’s rather cowardly to have one’s feelings about one’s own country so affected by an article in the New York Times. As for fools, every disastrous prediction about Brexit has been utterly wrong so far. Before you say we haven’t left yet, the Treasury’s predictions of disaster were predicated on the referendum outcome rather than actually leaving.TOPPING said:
Any right thinking patriotic Brit should be furious at the Brexiters for diminishing us. I certainly am.Scott_P said:
Brexiters think it is a huge victory. They are cowards and fools.
C***s.
I see you can’t even call us Brexiteers. Full marks for compliance with the Remainer style guide.
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Apparently our economy has 'sagged', too.MarqueeMark said:
If "Britain's stature on the world stage has diminshed", that of the USA needs an electron microscope - after electing Trump.Scott_P said:
Oh, wait....
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Rule #1 of limited overs cricket, is that you have to use all your overs with the bat.
197 is the easiest run chase the Aussies have had in a long time. It’s a 50 over match, not a 20/20.0 -
Well my relatives back in the UK love my Spanish homes visiting me every year since 2009 way more than I saw them when I lived in London. I have many friends here with similar experiences.OldKingCole said:
A lot of us have relatives who emigrated to Oz and EnZed to make new lives for themselves, often very successfully. Those 'friends and relatives' who have gone to Spain and Portugal though....felix said:The difference between the antipodean scores and those for European countries goes a long way to explain the Brexit result. The British are still fairly neutral on the latter. I guess you'd have to blame both sides for this.
Edited for FFS0 -
Fair enough; I've met more dodgy Brits in bars in Spain and Portugal than in the Antipodes, though.felix said:
Well my relatives back in the UK love my Spanish homes visiting me every year since 2009 way more than I saw them when I lived in London. I have many friends here with similar experiences.OldKingCole said:
A lot of us have relatives who emigrated to Oz and EnZed to make new lives for themselves, often very successfully. Those 'friends and relatives' who have gone to Spain and Portugal though....felix said:The difference between the antipodean scores and those for European countries goes a long way to explain the Brexit result. The British are still fairly neutral on the latter. I guess you'd have to blame both sides for this.
Edited for FFS
I've probably met more in bars in Thailand, though.0 -
Good morning, everyone.
I think age is a factor, but more perception than reality. Ming Campbell's younger than Paddy Ashdown, but as leader he came across as decades older. If you're still sharp and seem physically able, I don't think it's a problem for people.0 -
But then we can't all be lucky enough to live in Trump's powerhouse....Mortimer said:
Apparently our economy has 'sagged', too.MarqueeMark said:
If "Britain's stature on the world stage has diminshed", that of the USA needs an electron microscope - after electing Trump.Scott_P said:
Oh, wait....0 -
Hammond playing silly buggers again in Davos.
He needs to spend more time in his garden and with his family. I can't understand how he's still in the post but if Theresa doesn't remove him sharpish then it is her who is going to be the one tending to tulips.0 -
Not disagreeing overall, but Ashdown was 58 when he left office, Campbell was 65 when he started!Morris_Dancer said:Good morning, everyone.
I think age is a factor, but more perception than reality. Ming Campbell's younger than Paddy Ashdown, but as leader he came across as decades older. If you're still sharp and seem physically able, I don't think it's a problem for people.0 -
Would like to share a non-political story. For family reasons I need to keep up a good income so I do interpretation and translation on the side from my day job. I was asked to interpret for a Dane who has been blind for 30 years despite no fewer than 40 operations: there is a revolutionary new treatment in Brighton which he was willing to try; the Danish Health Service financed his trip (and my interpretation, as it was critical that his condition and health symptoms were accurately understood, but my role was extremely minor). The operation carried a risk of death and a a further risk that the very limited sense of light and dark that he did have would be lost.He is a brave, philosophical chap with a rich sense of humour (he went joking into the operation (told the anaesthetist that if he could see again he trusted she'd be blonde and under 30...).
Last night I heard that it had worked and he can see again. It's just wonderful.
The op, which seems very weird, is described here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osteo-odonto-keratoprosthesis
https://health.howstuffworks.com/medicine/surgeries-procedures/tooth-in-eye-surgery.htm0 -
Brit bars the world over are often dodgy - we go Spanish.OldKingCole said:
Fair enough; I've met more dodgy Brits in bars in Spain and Portugal than in the Antipodes, though.felix said:
Well my relatives back in the UK love my Spanish homes visiting me every year since 2009 way more than I saw them when I lived in London. I have many friends here with similar experiences.OldKingCole said:
A lot of us have relatives who emigrated to Oz and EnZed to make new lives for themselves, often very successfully. Those 'friends and relatives' who have gone to Spain and Portugal though....felix said:The difference between the antipodean scores and those for European countries goes a long way to explain the Brexit result. The British are still fairly neutral on the latter. I guess you'd have to blame both sides for this.
Edited for FFS
I've probably met more in bars in Thailand, though.0 -
Wow.NickPalmer said:Would like to share a non-political story. For family reasons I need to keep up a good income so I do interpretation and translation on the side from my day job. I was asked to interpret for a Dane who has been blind for 30 years despite no fewer than 40 operations: there is a revolutionary new treatment in Brighton which he was willing to try; the Danish Health Service financed his trip (and my interpretation, as it was critical that his condition and health symptoms were accurately understood, but my role was extremely minor). The operation carried a risk of death and a a further risk that the very limited sense of light and dark that he did have would be lost.He is a brave, philosophical chap with a rich sense of humour (he went joking into the operation (told the anaesthetist that if he could see again he trusted she'd be blonde and under 30...).
Last night I heard that it had worked and he can see again. It's just wonderful.
The op, which seems very weird, is described here:
https://health.howstuffworks.com/medicine/surgeries-procedures/tooth-in-eye-surgery.htm
That is some story. And your client sounds like a truly amazing character.
Thank you for sharing. Would you mind if I used it as a news item in tutor time?0 -
Mr. Alex, aye, but if you compared them during Campbell's time as leader, Ashdown came across as younger and Campbell a bit doddery.
Mr. Palmer, that's great news
It must be very odd for the chap in question. In a fantastic way, of course.0 -
No, do. He's a wonderful man, with much more to it than I can say in public.ydoethur said:
Wow.
That is some story. And your client sounds like a truly amazing character.
Thank you for sharing. Would you mind if I used it as a news item in tutor time?
Incidentally, I was dead impressed with the hospital's careful preparation, which included an interview with a psychiatrist to ensure that he understood the risks and was prepared to both risk dying and risk failure.0 -
Very true. But the characters one meets can be 'interesting'! Pinch of salt frequently necessary of course!felix said:
Brit bars the world over are often dodgy - we go Spanish.OldKingCole said:
Fair enough; I've met more dodgy Brits in bars in Spain and Portugal than in the Antipodes, though.felix said:
Well my relatives back in the UK love my Spanish homes visiting me every year since 2009 way more than I saw them when I lived in London. I have many friends here with similar experiences.OldKingCole said:
A lot of us have relatives who emigrated to Oz and EnZed to make new lives for themselves, often very successfully. Those 'friends and relatives' who have gone to Spain and Portugal though....felix said:The difference between the antipodean scores and those for European countries goes a long way to explain the Brexit result. The British are still fairly neutral on the latter. I guess you'd have to blame both sides for this.
Edited for FFS
I've probably met more in bars in Thailand, though.0 -
Thank you Dr Palmer. Much appreciated. It's a very inspiring story.NickPalmer said:
No, do. He's a wonderful man, with much more to it than I can say in public.ydoethur said:
Wow.
That is some story. And your client sounds like a truly amazing character.
Thank you for sharing. Would you mind if I used it as a news item in tutor time?
Incidentally, I was dead impressed with the hospital's careful preparation, which included an interview with a psychiatrist to ensure that he understood the risks and was prepared to both risk dying and risk failure.
Must dash. I hope everyone has a great day.0 -
I am thinking Hammond's departure is going to be the price for May staying as PM until the end of March 2019. The pair of them together do seem to be achieving a toxic critical mass.....GideonWise said:Hammond playing silly buggers again in Davos.
He needs to spend more time in his garden and with his family. I can't understand how he's still in the post but if Theresa doesn't remove him sharpish then it is her who is going to be the one tending to tulips.
She either gets rid of one - or both go. Not too difficult a choice, is it Theresa? Then move Hunt to CoE? I doubt he could refuse that move from Health....0 -
Maybe Gove as CoE wouldn't be such a bad idea. He could implement some of the 'bold' ideas the Treasury has sitting on the shelf and he might also go native on the single market.MarqueeMark said:
I am thinking Hammond's departure is going to be the price for May staying as PM until the end of March 2019. The pair of them together do seem to be achieving a toxic critical mass.....GideonWise said:Hammond playing silly buggers again in Davos.
He needs to spend more time in his garden and with his family. I can't understand how he's still in the post but if Theresa doesn't remove him sharpish then it is her who is going to be the one tending to tulips.
She either gets rid of one - or both go. Not too difficult a choice, is it Theresa? Then move Hunt to CoE? I doubt he could refuse that move from Health....0 -
Hammond next out of Cabinet?0
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Looking likely.rottenborough said:Hammond next out of Cabinet?
It really needs to be a Leaver in the post of Chancellor, however much of a Johnny-come-lately to the cause.0 -
Corbyn seems in good shape, so not too old, some could handle it some couldn't .0
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Not before time...rottenborough said:Hammond next out of Cabinet?
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Just clicked to an article on Independent website, and the full page video advert that fires up is for... The new-look Guardian.0 -
61-2 looks a bit more of a fight....0
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Or, maybe, he won't.williamglenn said:
Maybe Gove as CoE wouldn't be such a bad idea. He could implement some of the 'bold' ideas the Treasury has sitting on the shelf and he might also go native on the single market.MarqueeMark said:
I am thinking Hammond's departure is going to be the price for May staying as PM until the end of March 2019. The pair of them together do seem to be achieving a toxic critical mass.....GideonWise said:Hammond playing silly buggers again in Davos.
He needs to spend more time in his garden and with his family. I can't understand how he's still in the post but if Theresa doesn't remove him sharpish then it is her who is going to be the one tending to tulips.
She either gets rid of one - or both go. Not too difficult a choice, is it Theresa? Then move Hunt to CoE? I doubt he could refuse that move from Health....
We're leaving the single market. Every single pronouncement has said so.
Rejoice!0 -
Indeed.MarqueeMark said:
I am thinking Hammond's departure is going to be the price for May staying as PM until the end of March 2019. The pair of them together do seem to be achieving a toxic critical mass.....GideonWise said:Hammond playing silly buggers again in Davos.
He needs to spend more time in his garden and with his family. I can't understand how he's still in the post but if Theresa doesn't remove him sharpish then it is her who is going to be the one tending to tulips.
She either gets rid of one - or both go. Not too difficult a choice, is it Theresa? Then move Hunt to CoE? I doubt he could refuse that move from Health....
Does Hammond have a following in the party? Not as far as I can tell.
Will removing him change the parliamentary dynamics? Very little I imagine.
Is he good at his job? Not based on the evidence of the last 18 months.
Is he a good communicator and/or liked by the public? No he has very little appeal and if he's not even seen as competent, then zero appeal.
Why is he still there? Answers on a postcard to Theresa or if you prefer, Graham Brady0 -
Thanks for sharingNickPalmer said:Would like to share a non-political story. For family reasons I need to keep up a good income so I do interpretation and translation on the side from my day job. I was asked to interpret for a Dane who has been blind for 30 years despite no fewer than 40 operations: there is a revolutionary new treatment in Brighton which he was willing to try; the Danish Health Service financed his trip (and my interpretation, as it was critical that his condition and health symptoms were accurately understood, but my role was extremely minor). The operation carried a risk of death and a a further risk that the very limited sense of light and dark that he did have would be lost.He is a brave, philosophical chap with a rich sense of humour (he went joking into the operation (told the anaesthetist that if he could see again he trusted she'd be blonde and under 30...).
Last night I heard that it had worked and he can see again. It's just wonderful.
The op, which seems very weird, is described here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osteo-odonto-keratoprosthesis
https://health.howstuffworks.com/medicine/surgeries-procedures/tooth-in-eye-surgery.htm what wonderful news! 0 -
Sacking Hammond would presumably add at least one more letter to Brady's sack.
Can May afford that?0 -
No surprise that New Zealand tops the poll, it is probably closer culturally to the UK than any other country in the world. The countries that come bottom, Russia and Iran, are seen as threats to the West while Argentina cones third from bottom with concerns still over the Falklands despite a more amenable current government0
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Is Fleet Street missing the real story here? In the past couple of days we've had Hammond slapped down and Boris slapped down so either Number 10 has hired a new SpAd to tweet slapdowns or someone is on manoeuvres -- but who?rottenborough said:0 -
Simple way to fix that. Take one Brexiteer letter out of the sack, put one Remainer letter in.Scott_P said:Sacking Hammond would presumably add at least one more letter to Brady's sack.
Can May afford that?0 -
Just telling it as it is.MarqueeMark said:0 -
I decided to forego my usual 30 mins do I really want to send that period.kle4 said:0 -
Gove wants to reform the entire civil service. Installing him in Number 11 would give him the freedom to blow up Whitehall in the middle of Brexit negotiations.williamglenn said:
Maybe Gove as CoE wouldn't be such a bad idea. He could implement some of the 'bold' ideas the Treasury has sitting on the shelf and he might also go native on the single market.MarqueeMark said:
I am thinking Hammond's departure is going to be the price for May staying as PM until the end of March 2019. The pair of them together do seem to be achieving a toxic critical mass.....GideonWise said:Hammond playing silly buggers again in Davos.
He needs to spend more time in his garden and with his family. I can't understand how he's still in the post but if Theresa doesn't remove him sharpish then it is her who is going to be the one tending to tulips.
She either gets rid of one - or both go. Not too difficult a choice, is it Theresa? Then move Hunt to CoE? I doubt he could refuse that move from Health....0 -
Chancellor should be sacked for making sure his every public announcement is designed to reassure the markets with a message of “not much will change”? It’s a view I suppose.
Hell we could be going full frontal Hard Brexit, no trade treaties, 100% tariffs on everything, and I would expect the Chancellor to be publicly claiming “nothing much will change”.0 -
Good luck to him!NickPalmer said:Would like to share a non-political story. For family reasons I need to keep up a good income so I do interpretation and translation on the side from my day job. I was asked to interpret for a Dane who has been blind for 30 years despite no fewer than 40 operations: there is a revolutionary new treatment in Brighton which he was willing to try; the Danish Health Service financed his trip (and my interpretation, as it was critical that his condition and health symptoms were accurately understood, but my role was extremely minor). The operation carried a risk of death and a a further risk that the very limited sense of light and dark that he did have would be lost.He is a brave, philosophical chap with a rich sense of humour (he went joking into the operation (told the anaesthetist that if he could see again he trusted she'd be blonde and under 30...).
Last night I heard that it had worked and he can see again. It's just wonderful.
The op, which seems very weird, is described here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osteo-odonto-keratoprosthesis
https://health.howstuffworks.com/medicine/surgeries-procedures/tooth-in-eye-surgery.htm
It is part of the human experience that we focus on the failings within our systems and fail to focus on the real progress over the years.
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Deleted - double post0
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I do question how so many media commentators say that 48 letters will trigger a leadership contest.
48 letters will trigger a vote of no confidence in her that she is likely to win. That is not a leadership contest.
On Corbyn - if his health remains ok, and if (and it is a huge if) he arrives at no 10 the question should be as to how long he would last in post - he is entirely unsuited to the role and when the media spotlight puts him under daily attack, as they will, his inadequacy is likely to overwhelm him0 -
Already done to death down thread!SouthamObserver said:0 -
I feel regret far more than anger at Brexit. Some anger towards certain dishonest individuals. But anger towards the public for their decision? That way lies near perpetual unhappiness as the public are always going to make decisions I don’t like at some point...TOPPING said:
Any right thinking patriotic Brit should be furious at the Brexiters for diminishing us. I certainly am.Scott_P said:
Brexiters think it is a huge victory. They are cowards and fools.
C***s.
I’d also observe - this stuff about loss of influence and international standing - I think we in Remain overestimated how effective that argument would be. It just doesn’t feel tangible to people.
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Hammond can be rather Eeyore-ish, but has had a pretty good run as Chancellor. He has a rather reassuring, unflappable old school personality, which is rather attractive in a world full of ADHD like populists. I can understand why the swivel-eyed loons do not like him.GideonWise said:
Indeed.MarqueeMark said:
I am thinking Hammond's departure is going to be the price for May staying as PM until the end of March 2019. The pair of them together do seem to be achieving a toxic critical mass.....GideonWise said:Hammond playing silly buggers again in Davos.
He needs to spend more time in his garden and with his family. I can't understand how he's still in the post but if Theresa doesn't remove him sharpish then it is her who is going to be the one tending to tulips.
She either gets rid of one - or both go. Not too difficult a choice, is it Theresa? Then move Hunt to CoE? I doubt he could refuse that move from Health....
Does Hammond have a following in the party? Not as far as I can tell.
Will removing him change the parliamentary dynamics? Very little I imagine.
Is he good at his job? Not based on the evidence of the last 18 months.
Is he a good communicator and/or liked by the public? No he has very little appeal and if he's not even seen as competent, then zero appeal.
Why is he still there? Answers on a postcard to Theresa or if you prefer, Graham Brady
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In your little world.TOPPING said:
Just telling it as it is.MarqueeMark said:0 -
Yep - two countries rapidly pissing away all the soft power they have accumulated over many long years. The US will remain relevant because of its hard power. Can't say the same for us.MarqueeMark said:
If "Britain's stature on the world stage has diminshed", that of the USA needs an electron microscope - after electing Trump.Scott_P said:
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A very good postrkrkrk said:
I feel regret far more than anger at Brexit. Some anger towards certain dishonest individuals. But anger towards the public for their decision? That way lies near perpetual unhappiness as the public are always going to make decisions I don’t like at some point...TOPPING said:
Any right thinking patriotic Brit should be furious at the Brexiters for diminishing us. I certainly am.Scott_P said:
Brexiters think it is a huge victory. They are cowards and fools.
C***s.
I’d also observe - this stuff about loss of influence and international standing - I think we in Remain overestimated how effective that argument would be. It just doesn’t feel tangible to people.0 -
People that like France are very fond of it indeed.Casino_Royale said:France is far too high in that list.
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I can't see May winning a No Confidence vote. Not anymore. Maybe a couple of months ago or so. But not now.Big_G_NorthWales said:I do question how so many media commentators say that 48 letters will trigger a leadership contest.
48 letters will trigger a vote of no confidence in her that she is likely to win. That is not a leadership contest.
On Corbyn - if his health remains ok, and if (and it is a huge if) he arrives at no 10 the question should be as to how long he would last in post - he is entirely unsuited to the role and when the media spotlight puts him under daily attack, as they will, his inadequacy is likely to overwhelm him0 -
If you think the Brexit vote was a vote to get a bigger audience for the UK PM in Davos you need to go back to the drawing board, as recent elections have showed it is not as if other western countries do not have rising anti immigration and anti capitalism and anti globalisation movements tooSouthamObserver said:Deleted - double post
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The flipside of that argument is the Brexiteers yearning for the return of Empire.rkrkrk said:I’d also observe - this stuff about loss of influence and international standing - I think we in Remain overestimated how effective that argument would be. It just doesn’t feel tangible to people.
In their minds we can increase our Global influence by retreating to the past.0 -
We're what, 1% of the global population? About 3.4% of global GDP? I'm not sure what people expect us to achieve on the world stage. We're important, but in no way a colossus - those days are long gone.rkrkrk said:
I feel regret far more than anger at Brexit. Some anger towards certain dishonest individuals. But anger towards the public for their decision? That way lies near perpetual unhappiness as the public are always going to make decisions I don’t like at some point...TOPPING said:
Any right thinking patriotic Brit should be furious at the Brexiters for diminishing us. I certainly am.Scott_P said:
Brexiters think it is a huge victory. They are cowards and fools.
C***s.
I’d also observe - this stuff about loss of influence and international standing - I think we in Remain overestimated how effective that argument would be. It just doesn’t feel tangible to people.
We'll be slipping down the economic league tables this century - India is likely to overtake both France and the UK this year. However, this doesn't mean we can't prosper in relative terms; it's not as if our recent overseas adventures have generated any political capital.
If Brexit forces us to spend a bit more time sorting out domestic issues, rather than grandstanding in some post-Imperial spasm, it will be for the good.0 -
I think we can safely say we’ve seen how Corbyn responds under daily media attack.Big_G_NorthWales said:I do question how so many media commentators say that 48 letters will trigger a leadership contest.
48 letters will trigger a vote of no confidence in her that she is likely to win. That is not a leadership contest.
On Corbyn - if his health remains ok, and if (and it is a huge if) he arrives at no 10 the question should be as to how long he would last in post - he is entirely unsuited to the role and when the media spotlight puts him under daily attack, as they will, his inadequacy is likely to overwhelm him
If he reaches #10 I suspect he would only serve one term. That perception is likely to be destabilising IMO - from the moment he is in the door people would be jostling to be in line to replace him.
Super speculative but - I suspect he would try to line up some quick wins on tuition fees, higher taxation on the wealthy, more money for the NHS, a few apologies for colonial atrocities and then he’d be tempted to stand down if he could guarantee a leftie on the ballot. I’m unconvinced he could get the utility nationalisations through Parliament even with a majority - but I think we’d see train franchises coming back to public ownership.0 -
Mr. P, those ardent Remain supporters are the ones who keep banging on about the Empire.
It's Cathy Newmanesque.
"I want the UK to leave the EU."
"So you're saying we should conquer Africa?"0 -
I have five types of gin in my freezer I'm spoilt for choice.Richard_Tyndall said:0 -
Utter rubbish. Having a global outlook is not returning to the past, much as you would like to try to paint the picture of EmpireScott_P said:
The flipside of that argument is the Brexiteers yearning for the return of Empire.rkrkrk said:I’d also observe - this stuff about loss of influence and international standing - I think we in Remain overestimated how effective that argument would be. It just doesn’t feel tangible to people.
In their minds we can increase our Global influence by retreating to the past.0 -
On balance I agree. A lot of the MPs would want her to see Brexit through, and they will know how damaging a leadership election would be right now. There will also be a fair few of them fearing getting lumbered with Boris or RM. However these are reasons not to send in letters; once we reach the point where a vote is publicly declared, half the damage is done, and May's premiership cannot take much more damage. A narrow result in a confidence vote isn't a sustainable position, and so they then might as well vote her out and take their chances,rottenborough said:
I can't see May winning a No Confidence vote. Not anymore. Maybe a couple of months ago or so. But not now.Big_G_NorthWales said:I do question how so many media commentators say that 48 letters will trigger a leadership contest.
48 letters will trigger a vote of no confidence in her that she is likely to win. That is not a leadership contest.
On Corbyn - if his health remains ok, and if (and it is a huge if) he arrives at no 10 the question should be as to how long he would last in post - he is entirely unsuited to the role and when the media spotlight puts him under daily attack, as they will, his inadequacy is likely to overwhelm him0 -
There has to be some truth in that, though from my experience in public service, you're overstating your case. May is in trouble because even in areas with no direct connection to Brexit (e.g. housing) little is being accomplished.Scott_P said:
Except the entire domestic agenda has been sacrificed on the altar of Brexit.John_M said:If Brexit forces us to spend a bit more time sorting out domestic issues, rather than grandstanding in some post-Imperial spasm, it will be for the good.
0 -
Some talk of Grayling bringing the East Coast back in house pending a new franchise in 2020. Corbyn succeeding in public ownership of train franchises may well be obstructed by the length of the franchiserkrkrk said:
I think we can safely say we’ve seen how Corbyn responds under daily media attack.Big_G_NorthWales said:I do question how so many media commentators say that 48 letters will trigger a leadership contest.
48 letters will trigger a vote of no confidence in her that she is likely to win. That is not a leadership contest.
On Corbyn - if his health remains ok, and if (and it is a huge if) he arrives at no 10 the question should be as to how long he would last in post - he is entirely unsuited to the role and when the media spotlight puts him under daily attack, as they will, his inadequacy is likely to overwhelm him
If he reaches #10 I suspect he would only serve one term. That perception is likely to be destabilising IMO - from the moment he is in the door people would be jostling to be in line to replace him.
Super speculative but - I suspect he would try to line up some quick wins on tuition fees, higher taxation on the wealthy, more money for the NHS, a few apologies for colonial atrocities and then he’d be tempted to stand down if he could guarantee a leftie on the ballot. I’m unconvinced he could get the utility nationalisations through Parliament even with a majority - but I think we’d see train franchises coming back to public ownership.0 -
There is also the factor that if there is to be vote, she simply takes soundings and withdraws before the vote. She's only carrying on out of duty.IanB2 said:
On balance I agree. A lot of the MPs would want her to see Brexit through, and they will know how damaging a leadership election would be right now. There will also be a fair few of them fearing getting lumbered with Boris or RM. However these are reasons not to send in letters; once we reach the point where a vote is publicly declared, half the damage is done, and May's premiership cannot take much more damage. A narrow result in a confidence vote isn't a sustainable position, and so they then might as well vote her out and take their chances,rottenborough said:
I can't see May winning a No Confidence vote. Not anymore. Maybe a couple of months ago or so. But not now.Big_G_NorthWales said:I do question how so many media commentators say that 48 letters will trigger a leadership contest.
48 letters will trigger a vote of no confidence in her that she is likely to win. That is not a leadership contest.
On Corbyn - if his health remains ok, and if (and it is a huge if) he arrives at no 10 the question should be as to how long he would last in post - he is entirely unsuited to the role and when the media spotlight puts him under daily attack, as they will, his inadequacy is likely to overwhelm him0 -
When I was born, the Empire amounted to Belize, Hong Kong, Aden, and a number of islands in the West Indies and Pacific. I'm not yearning for a return to those glory days.Scott_P said:
The flipside of that argument is the Brexiteers yearning for the return of Empire.rkrkrk said:I’d also observe - this stuff about loss of influence and international standing - I think we in Remain overestimated how effective that argument would be. It just doesn’t feel tangible to people.
In their minds we can increase our Global influence by retreating to the past.0 -
Brexit will force us to try to make trade deals with Tonga, won't it. Not sure the denizens of Bourne gain a great deal thereby.John_M said:
We're what, 1% of the global population? About 3.4% of global GDP? I'm not sure what people expect us to achieve on the world stage. We're important, but in no way a colossus - those days are long gone.rkrkrk said:
I feel regret far more than anger at Brexit. Some anger towards certain dishonest individuals. But anger towards the public for their decision? That way lies near perpetual unhappiness as the public are always going to make decisions I don’t like at some point...TOPPING said:
Any right thinking patriotic Brit should be furious at the Brexiters for diminishing us. I certainly am.Scott_P said:
Brexiters think it is a huge victory. They are cowards and fools.
C***s.
I’d also observe - this stuff about loss of influence and international standing - I think we in Remain overestimated how effective that argument would be. It just doesn’t feel tangible to people.
We'll be slipping down the economic league tables this century - India is likely to overtake both France and the UK this year. However, this doesn't mean we can't prosper in relative terms; it's not as if our recent overseas adventures have generated any political capital.
If Brexit forces us to spend a bit more time sorting out domestic issues, rather than grandstanding in some post-Imperial spasm, it will be for the good.0
