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Gove back to education would be funny.NickPalmer said:We're running out of Cabinet slots, so I assume Gove is staying put? Good. Though there's still DWP and I suppose Education if she's quit.
Edit: confirmed. Yay!
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If the solicitor paid for by the developer sends a 25 page report on title, with a 50 page lease, a 30 page Section 106 Agreement, stacks of planning and building consents, reams of title deeds, and searches to the buyer, you can be sure that 95% of buyers will never read the stuff. Added to that, he's likely managing 20 semi-qualified staff, and you can never meet him face to face, but hey! The developer gave you "free" conveyancing.Yorkcity said:
Yes I appreciate there is a housing shortage, but surely the solicitors adviced their clients buying a new build house on a leaseholder agreement rather than a freehold , is not a good idea.Richard_Nabavi said:
The entire purpose of lawyers is to protect you from this kind of thing. It seems to me that they've got off scot-free.TheWhiteRabbit said:
Taylor Wimpey set a trap, and solicitors walked into it. Of course, lawyers are in the business of spotting traps, but there we go.Richard_Nabavi said:
I don't think that Persimmon has been particularly bad in this respect, has it? It's Taylor Wimpey and some other firms who had the unreasonable terms in their leases (which BTW the purchasers' solicitors should have noticed).bigjohnowls said:
CE of Persimmon been awarded a £110m bonus for boosting profits mainly due to Leasehold trap according to Look North.David_Evershed said:
Already been stopped.Yorkcity said:Be good if the housing minister took a serious look at UK housebuilders selling new houses on a leasehold basis.Seems to me just a scam to make more money .Also it leaves the buyers in a leasehold property trap.
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Hancock has the town of Newmarket in his constituency and is a big friend of horse racing.David_Evershed said:Hancock gets Culture Media and also Sport
May be interesting looking at the issue of FOBTs in betting shops.
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Full alignment with the rules of the single market that support the all-island economy would absolutely rule out imposing work permits in cases like that.HYUFD said:
Probably the former but as NI voted Remain some flexibility could be allowed, it is England and Wales where free movement really has to end as both voted Leavewilliamglenn said:
Will a Polish citizen in Dublin need a work permit to transfer to the Belfast branch of their company or will free movement apply?HYUFD said:
As I said the regulatory alignment in so far as NI goes will apply but the UK will still end free movement and leave the single marketwilliamglenn said:
Do you really believe the agreement means that a Canada style deal could apply to Northern Ireland?HYUFD said:
Wrong again, it was agreement over the Irish border and some regulatory alignment which enabled FTA talks to begin but free movement will still end and we will still leave the single marketwilliamglenn said:FPT as more relevant here:
Where ‘we’ doesn’t mean the United Kingdom, but Great Britain. Can the Conservative and Unionist Party, propped up by the DUP, afford to do that?HYUFD said:
No it isn't, even Barnier has said we will get a Canada style FTA on goods if we leave the single market and end free movementwilliamglenn said:
Interesting that 'the UK' has now become 'England and Wales'.0 -
The key thing to understand is that if you have a ground rent which doubles every decade, the property isn't an asset but a liability. It might not be visibly unaffordable for decades, but if it will be in 100 years then no-one will buy it in 90. And if it can't be sold in 90 years no-one will want it in 80. And so on.Yorkcity said:
I suppose people who have bought a new build house on a leasehold basis will now be in a difficult position when selling the property.Sean_F said:
If they're new builds, the developer will offer to pay the buyer's legal fees, so long as they use the solicitor he chooses. That solicitor will then protect himself by writing pages of gobbledegook to the buyer. "What, you mean you didn't read the pile of documents and reports I sent you?"Richard_Nabavi said:
The entire purpose of lawyers is to protect you from this kind of thing. It seems to me that they've got off scot-free.TheWhiteRabbit said:
Taylor Wimpey set a trap, and solicitors walked into it. Of course, lawyers are in the business of spotting traps, but there we go.Richard_Nabavi said:
I don't think that Persimmon has been particularly bad in this respect, has it? It's Taylor Wimpey and some other firms who had the unreasonable terms in their leases (which BTW the purchasers' solicitors should have noticed).bigjohnowls said:
CE of Persimmon been awarded a £110m bonus for boosting profits mainly due to Leasehold trap according to Look North.David_Evershed said:
Already been stopped.Yorkcity said:Be good if the housing minister took a serious look at UK housebuilders selling new houses on a leasehold basis.Seems to me just a scam to make more money .Also it leaves the buyers in a leasehold property trap.
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It's a nightmare for families and the elderly needing care - including the difference between what should be NHS continuing health care and what is local authority social care.PClipp said:
I thought that was what the Coalition Government was working towards. Unfortunately the Independent Conservative Government put an end to it. And now they seem to be doing a U-turn.JohnO said:
As a county councillor all I can say is that the sooner adult social care is reintegrated with the health service and funded by direct taxation, the better. The present arrangement is a nightmare.Big_G_NorthWales said:Green paper on social care now moved to Health Department. Sky reporting a chorus of approval for this move
I see the Conservatives as just incompetent.
And of course we have the nonsense whereby an elderly person on a low income who owns a £3m house but has only £20k in savings can receive totally free home care but an elderly person on the same income who has £40k in savings (perhaps inherited from a friend) but lives in a rented council flat and owns no home has to pay 100 per cent of their home care costs.
How immoral is it that someone with £3m in assets gets free home care but someone with only £40k pays 100 per cent of the costs until their savings are below £23k - just because the latters assets are not in bricks and mortar?
Mrs May of course sought to address that shameful situation with her ill fated dementia tax - but Labour was on the side of the multi millionaire home owner not the council tenant!0 -
I meant, how it is they can ban leasehold houses and more than flats.crandles said:
Thats cos you can't ban leasehold flats, the flats belong to whoever owns the land so to do flats on different floors belonging to different people there is no other way than having leasehold flats. Think they are just banning new leasehold houses.TheWhiteRabbit said:
It's going to be banned, the government has announced.Yorkcity said:Be good if the housing minister took a serious look at UK housebuilders selling new houses on a leasehold basis.Seems to me just a scam to make more money .Also it leaves the buyers in a leasehold property trap.
Interestingly they are seeking to bean leasehold "houses" (i.e. not flats) rather than just escalating ground rents. I do wonder how that is supposed to work.
There is no legal thing as a flat. If anything its leaseholds status is a giveaway.0 -
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I am sure some conveyancers will indeed face negligence claims.Sean_F said:
If they're new builds, the developer will offer to pay the buyer's legal fees, so long as they use the solicitor he chooses. That solicitor will then protect himself by writing pages of gobbledegook to the buyer. "What, you mean you didn't read the pile of documents and reports I sent you?"Richard_Nabavi said:
The entire purpose of lawyers is to protect you from this kind of thing. It seems to me that they've got off scot-free.TheWhiteRabbit said:
Taylor Wimpey set a trap, and solicitors walked into it. Of course, lawyers are in the business of spotting traps, but there we go.Richard_Nabavi said:
I don't think that Persimmon has been particularly bad in this respect, has it? It's Taylor Wimpey and some other firms who had the unreasonable terms in their leases (which BTW the purchasers' solicitors should have noticed).bigjohnowls said:
CE of Persimmon been awarded a £110m bonus for boosting profits mainly due to Leasehold trap according to Look North.David_Evershed said:
Already been stopped.Yorkcity said:Be good if the housing minister took a serious look at UK housebuilders selling new houses on a leasehold basis.Seems to me just a scam to make more money .Also it leaves the buyers in a leasehold property trap.
Though those that merely copy/pasted the provision - effectively inviting the buyer themselves to fall into the trap - will likely get off.
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It's okay, they are all too stupid to notice.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You have just insulted at least 40% of the populationAnazina said:
I think it's impossible that anyone barring the clinically insane could support this dimwitted band of clowns and halfwits.JohnO said:
And one that you almost supported.AlastairMeeks said:
It's a mediocre government whose sole purpose at present is to implement Brexit, the most gratuitously harmful policy undertaken by a government in living memory.JohnO said:
And your party needs to regain its sanity. As Sean Fear wrote on the previous thread: this is a mediocre government but it's not doing much harm. Under its present leadership, Labour would be catastrophic. But I suspect you know that too.Jonathan said:
Your party needs to make a choice of direction and get on with it. You're currently pissing around in no man's land.JohnO said:0 -
Only 95%????Sean_F said:
If the solicitor paid for by the developer sends a 25 page report on title, with a 50 page lease, a 30 page Section 106 Agreement, stacks of planning and building consents, reams of title deeds, and searches to the buyer, you can be sure that 95% of buyers will never read the stuff. Added to that, he's likely managing 20 semi-qualified staff, and you can never meet him face to face, but hey! The developer gave you "free" conveyancing.Yorkcity said:
Yes I appreciate there is a housing shortage, but surely the solicitors adviced their clients buying a new build house on a leaseholder agreement rather than a freehold , is not a good idea.Richard_Nabavi said:
The entire purpose of lawyers is to protect you from this kind of thing. It seems to me that they've got off scot-free.TheWhiteRabbit said:
Taylor Wimpey set a trap, and solicitors walked into it. Of course, lawyers are in the business of spotting traps, but there we go.Richard_Nabavi said:
I don't think that Persimmon has been particularly bad in this respect, has it? It's Taylor Wimpey and some other firms who had the unreasonable terms in their leases (which BTW the purchasers' solicitors should have noticed).bigjohnowls said:
CE of Persimmon been awarded a £110m bonus for boosting profits mainly due to Leasehold trap according to Look North.David_Evershed said:
Already been stopped.Yorkcity said:Be good if the housing minister took a serious look at UK housebuilders selling new houses on a leasehold basis.Seems to me just a scam to make more money .Also it leaves the buyers in a leasehold property trap.
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No one will notice.williamglenn said:0 -
I think we have no choice but to leave the Customs Union. My guess is that if the parties wish to solve the Border issue, rather than use it as a pretext for grandstanding, they will do. Switzerland is not in the customs union, but people have no difficulty trading and commuting to and from Austria, Italy, Germany, and France.brendan16 said:
Has Corbyn cleared the line with Keir Starmer?Richard_Nabavi said:Reports that Chuka Umanna has flounced out of a PLP meeting because Corbyn has reiterated Labour's policy of leaving the Single Market and Customs Union:
18:55
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2018/jan/08/cabinet-reshuffle-theresa-may-tory-government-pm-to-start-shifting-ministers-politics-live
Neither major party seems entirely clear what their position is - including how we solve the Irish border issue if we leave the customs union.0 -
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The press notice, the MPs (who's career depends on this stuff) notice. All in all, a timely reminder arriving when the memory of last years' failures fade.TheScreamingEagles said:
No one will notice.williamglenn said:0 -
But that cannot mean the whole of the UK leaves the Customs Union so for that to happen we need to be logistically, as well as politically, ready for Great Britain to go it alone. When will that be possible?Sean_F said:
I think we have no choice but to leave the Customs Union. My guess is that if the parties wish to solve the Border issue, rather than use it as a pretext for grandstanding, they will do. Switzerland is not in the customs union, but people have no difficulty trading and commuting to and from Austria, Italy, Germany, and France.brendan16 said:
Has Corbyn cleared the line with Keir Starmer?Richard_Nabavi said:Reports that Chuka Umanna has flounced out of a PLP meeting because Corbyn has reiterated Labour's policy of leaving the Single Market and Customs Union:
18:55
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2018/jan/08/cabinet-reshuffle-theresa-may-tory-government-pm-to-start-shifting-ministers-politics-live
Neither major party seems entirely clear what their position is - including how we solve the Irish border issue if we leave the customs union.0 -
Oh, to be a fly on the wall.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Are we sure she hasn't left by the back door?Casino_Royale said:
Oh, to be a fly on the wall.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Even if you are right, our dear old friend parliamentary sovereignty comes into play - there will be a legal definition of a flat if the Queen in parliament says so. In fact there are freehold, non-ground-floor flats - it's called a flying freehold. There are also sometimes valid reasons for having leasehold houses; say you have a gated community with non-adopted roads, it's easier to enforce mutual obligations to pay for upkeep etc. if the obligations are in leases.TheWhiteRabbit said:
I meant, how it is they can ban leasehold houses and more than flats.crandles said:
Thats cos you can't ban leasehold flats, the flats belong to whoever owns the land so to do flats on different floors belonging to different people there is no other way than having leasehold flats. Think they are just banning new leasehold houses.TheWhiteRabbit said:
It's going to be banned, the government has announced.Yorkcity said:Be good if the housing minister took a serious look at UK housebuilders selling new houses on a leasehold basis.Seems to me just a scam to make more money .Also it leaves the buyers in a leasehold property trap.
Interestingly they are seeking to bean leasehold "houses" (i.e. not flats) rather than just escalating ground rents. I do wonder how that is supposed to work.
There is no legal thing as a flat. If anything its leaseholds status is a giveaway.0 -
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No it wouldn't as what Ireland cares about is no tariffs not free movement for Polish plumbers in Ireland.williamglenn said:
Full alignment with the rules of the single market that support the all-island economy would absolutely rule out imposing work permits in cases like that.HYUFD said:
Probably the former but as NI voted Remain some flexibility could be allowed, it is England and Wales where free movement really has to end as both voted Leavewilliamglenn said:
Will a Polish citizen in Dublin need a work permit to transfer to the Belfast branch of their company or will free movement apply?HYUFD said:
As I said the regulatory alignment in so far as NI goes will apply but the UK will still end free movement and leave the single marketwilliamglenn said:
Do you really believe the agreement means that a Canada style deal could apply to Northern Ireland?HYUFD said:
Wrong again, it was agreement over the Irish border and some regulatory alignment which enabled FTA talks to begin but free movement will still end and we will still leave the single marketwilliamglenn said:FPT as more relevant here:
Where ‘we’ doesn’t mean the United Kingdom, but Great Britain. Can the Conservative and Unionist Party, propped up by the DUP, afford to do that?HYUFD said:
No it isn't, even Barnier has said we will get a Canada style FTA on goods if we leave the single market and end free movementwilliamglenn said:
Interesting that 'the UK' has now become 'England and Wales'.0 -
The fact that this house is freehold was one of the things that encouraged me to buy it. I didn't read all the documents but I did skim them, thereby clocking that there's a coal seam under the street (a long way under!) and a transmitter on a nearby building, etc. I would imagine that most people investing a 6-figure sum would spend a bit of time reading.TheWhiteRabbit said:
Only 95%????Sean_F said:
If the solicitor paid for by the developer sends a 25 page report on title, with a 50 page lease, a 30 page Section 106 Agreement, stacks of planning and building consents, reams of title deeds, and searches to the buyer, you can be sure that 95% of buyers will never read the stuff. Added to that, he's likely managing 20 semi-qualified staff, and you can never meet him face to face, but hey! The developer gave you "free" conveyancing.Yorkcity said:
Yes I appreciate there is a housing shortage, but surely the solicitors adviced their clients buying a new build house on a leaseholder agreement rather than a freehold , is not a good idea.Richard_Nabavi said:
The entire purpose of lawyers is to protect you from this kind of thing. It seems to me that they've got off scot-free.TheWhiteRabbit said:
Taylor Wimpey set a trap, and solicitors walked into it. Of course, lawyers are in the business of spotting traps, but there we go.Richard_Nabavi said:
I don't think that Persimmon has been particularly bad in this respect, has it? It's Taylor Wimpey and some other firms who had the unreasonable terms in their leases (which BTW the purchasers' solicitors should have noticed).bigjohnowls said:
CE of Persimmon been awarded a £110m bonus for boosting profits mainly due to Leasehold trap according to Look North.David_Evershed said:
Already been stopped.Yorkcity said:Be good if the housing minister took a serious look at UK housebuilders selling new houses on a leasehold basis.Seems to me just a scam to make more money .Also it leaves the buyers in a leasehold property trap.
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Leadsom to be new Minister for The Family?0
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That is only the case with personal care at home, if residential care is needed that £3m home would have to be sold and only £23k guaranteed to be keptbrendan16 said:
It's a nightmare for families and the elderly needing care - including the difference between what should be NHS continuing health care and what is local authority social care.PClipp said:
I thought that was what the Coalition Government was working towards. Unfortunately the Independent Conservative Government put an end to it. And now they seem to be doing a U-turn.JohnO said:
As a county councillor all I can say is that the sooner adult social care is reintegrated with the health service and funded by direct taxation, the better. The present arrangement is a nightmare.Big_G_NorthWales said:Green paper on social care now moved to Health Department. Sky reporting a chorus of approval for this move
I see the Conservatives as just incompetent.
And of course we have the nonsense whereby an elderly person on a low income who owns a £3m house but has only £20k in savings can receive totally free home care but an elderly person on the same income who has £40k in savings (perhaps inherited from a friend) but lives in a rented council flat and owns no home has to pay 100 per cent of their home care costs.
How immoral is it that someone with £3m in assets gets free home care but someone with only £40k pays 100 per cent of the costs until their savings are below £23k - just because the latters assets are not in bricks and mortar?
Mrs May of course sought to address that shameful situation with her ill fated dementia tax - but Labour was on the side of the multi millionaire home owner not the council tenant!0 -
I've been through this recently with Mr Stodge Senior who has gone into residential care. Care at home wasn't an option - he needs more than three home visits per day and the care home can provide that level of support.brendan16 said:
It's a nightmare for families and the elderly needing care - including the difference between what should be NHS continuing health care and what is local authority social care.
And of course we have the nonsense whereby an elderly person on a low income who owns a £3m house but has only £20k in savings can receive totally free home care but an elderly person on the same income who has £40k in savings (perhaps inherited from a friend) but lives in a rented council flat and owns no home has to pay 100 per cent of their home care costs.
How immoral is it that someone with £3m in assets gets free home care but someone with only £40k pays 100 per cent of the costs until their savings are below £23k - just because the latters assets are not in bricks and mortar?
Mrs May of course sought to address that shameful situation with her ill fated dementia tax - but Labour was on the side of the multi millionaire home owner not the council tenant!
It costs £1000 per week which isn't unusual - financially it's a bad decision for us but it's the best for Dad and his needs. The anomaly is one set of financial conditions apply if you go into a care home, another if you stay at home and that all depends on the assets available.
There's no easy or simple answer - if there was, we'd be doing it now. Throw in the thorny political and social question of "inheritance" and it's a quagmire.
I do credit May and the 2017 Conservative GE Manifesto for offering some different ideas - I didn't think they were very good ideas or well thought through but the current situation is unsustainable.
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Leadsom and Universal Credit? A perfect sacrificial anode.rottenborough said:Leadsom to be new Minister for The Family?
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You'd be surprised what people will sign up to, without checking.Dadge said:
The fact that this house is freehold was one of the things that encouraged me to buy it. I didn't read all the documents but I did skim them, thereby clocking that there's a coal seam under the street (a long way under!) and a transmitter on a nearby building, etc. I would imagine that most people investing a 6-figure sum would spend a bit of time reading.TheWhiteRabbit said:
Only 95%????Sean_F said:
If the solicitor paid for by the developer sends a 25 page report on title, with a 50 page lease, a 30 page Section 106 Agreement, stacks of planning and building consents, reams of title deeds, and searches to the buyer, you can be sure that 95% of buyers will never read the stuff. Added to that, he's likely managing 20 semi-qualified staff, and you can never meet him face to face, but hey! The developer gave you "free" conveyancing.Yorkcity said:
Yes I appreciate there is a housing shortage, but surely the solicitors adviced their clients buying a new build house on a leaseholder agreement rather than a freehold , is not a good idea.Richard_Nabavi said:
The entire purpose of lawyers is to protect you from this kind of thing. It seems to me that they've got off scot-free.TheWhiteRabbit said:
Taylor Wimpey set a trap, and solicitors walked into it. Of course, lawyers are in the business of spotting traps, but there we go.Richard_Nabavi said:
I don't think that Persimmon has been particularly bad in this respect, has it? It's Taylor Wimpey and some other firms who had the unreasonable terms in their leases (which BTW the purchasers' solicitors should have noticed).bigjohnowls said:
CE of Persimmon been awarded a £110m bonus for boosting profits mainly due to Leasehold trap according to Look North.David_Evershed said:
Already been stopped.Yorkcity said:Be good if the housing minister took a serious look at UK housebuilders selling new houses on a leasehold basis.Seems to me just a scam to make more money .Also it leaves the buyers in a leasehold property trap.
If I were the solicitor, I'd send a letter, no more than 3 pages, drawing attention to salient points to the client, and have a meeting to discuss them. But, I'd expect to be paid accordingly.0 -
I said that like three hour ago...williamglenn said:0 -
On a point of order Truss only attends Cabinet.rottenborough said:0 -
Snort.dr_spyn said:0 -
Minister For Motherhood (and apple pie) ?rottenborough said:Leadsom to be new Minister for The Family?
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Or a charge put on the house, to be sold on death.HYUFD said:
That is only the case with personal care at home, if residential care is needed that £3m home would have to be sold and only £23k guaranteed to be keptbrendan16 said:
It's a nightmare for families and the elderly needing care - including the difference between what should be NHS continuing health care and what is local authority social care.PClipp said:
I thought that was what the Coalition Government was working towards. Unfortunately the Independent Conservative Government put an end to it. And now they seem to be doing a U-turn.JohnO said:
As a county councillor all I can say is that the sooner adult social care is reintegrated with the health service and funded by direct taxation, the better. The present arrangement is a nightmare.Big_G_NorthWales said:Green paper on social care now moved to Health Department. Sky reporting a chorus of approval for this move
I see the Conservatives as just incompetent.
And of course we have the nonsense whereby an elderly person on a low income who owns a £3m house but has only £20k in savings can receive totally free home care but an elderly person on the same income who has £40k in savings (perhaps inherited from a friend) but lives in a rented council flat and owns no home has to pay 100 per cent of their home care costs.
How immoral is it that someone with £3m in assets gets free home care but someone with only £40k pays 100 per cent of the costs until their savings are below £23k - just because the latters assets are not in bricks and mortar?
Mrs May of course sought to address that shameful situation with her ill fated dementia tax - but Labour was on the side of the multi millionaire home owner not the council tenant!0 -
Of topic - Yeovil hit jackpot - Man Utd at home in FA cup. Bet that is televised0
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I am slightly reassured that Hunt is taking charge of the Social Care Green Paper. Maybe naive, but perhaps finally we will have someone prepared to drive through a long term solution to this mess.0
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Grayling confirmed as embarrassing himself at Transport.
Still time for them to delete the tweet...0 -
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She didn't ditch Grayling?!0
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May seems to suffer from a variant of esprit de l'escalier where bold decisions occur to her about 3 weeks too late.GIN1138 said:
I said that like three hour ago...williamglenn said:
If she wanted to do a reshuffle, the time to do it was on the day she sacked Damian Green when the mood would have been much more favourable to her imposing her authority.0 -
Did you mean "how it is they can ban leasehold houses any more than flats?"TheWhiteRabbit said:
I meant, how it is they can ban leasehold houses and more than flats.crandles said:
Thats cos you can't ban leasehold flats, the flats belong to whoever owns the land so to do flats on different floors belonging to different people there is no other way than having leasehold flats. Think they are just banning new leasehold houses.TheWhiteRabbit said:
It's going to be banned, the government has announced.Yorkcity said:Be good if the housing minister took a serious look at UK housebuilders selling new houses on a leasehold basis.Seems to me just a scam to make more money .Also it leaves the buyers in a leasehold property trap.
Interestingly they are seeking to bean leasehold "houses" (i.e. not flats) rather than just escalating ground rents. I do wonder how that is supposed to work.
There is no legal thing as a flat. If anything its leaseholds status is a giveaway.
Note I said it was *new* leasehold houses they are banning. So if it is existing house or flat it can continue, but if you try to do it with a newly built house, presumably 'leasehold sale' will be voidable as illegal.0 -
It is the best part of the reshuffle. He has taken over the green paper from the DCLG on social care and this could be his time if he can put in place an integrated health and social care system on a long term funding basisrottenborough said:I am slightly reassured that Hunt is taking charge of the Social Care Green Paper. Maybe naive, but perhaps finally we will have someone prepared to drive through a long term solution to this mess.
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Still with the same effect.rottenborough said:
Or a charge put on the house, to be sold on death.HYUFD said:
That is only the case with personal care at home, if residential care is needed that £3m home would have to be sold and only £23k guaranteed to be keptbrendan16 said:
It's a nightmare for families and the elderly needing care - including the difference between what should be NHS continuing health care and what is local authority social care.PClipp said:
I thought that was what the Coalition Government was working towards. Unfortunately the Independent Conservative Government put an end to it. And now they seem to be doing a U-turn.JohnO said:
As a county councillor all I can say is that the sooner adult social care is reintegrated with the health service and funded by direct taxation, the better. The present arrangement is a nightmare.Big_G_NorthWales said:Green paper on social care now moved to Health Department. Sky reporting a chorus of approval for this move
I see the Conservatives as just incompetent.
And of course we have the nonsense whereby an elderly person on a low income who owns a £3m house but has only £20k in savings can receive totally free home care but an elderly person on the same income who has £40k in savings (perhaps inherited from a friend) but lives in a rented council flat and owns no home has to pay 100 per cent of their home care costs.
How immoral is it that someone with £3m in assets gets free home care but someone with only £40k pays 100 per cent of the costs until their savings are below £23k - just because the latters assets are not in bricks and mortar?
Mrs May of course sought to address that shameful situation with her ill fated dementia tax - but Labour was on the side of the multi millionaire home owner not the council tenant!0 -
Honestly, how could May have survived so long in politics and been so utterly rubbish at it?
How?
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She was probably starting to feel like she'd been kidnapped.rottenborough said:0 -
Splendid news. By that token London will also have 'flexibility' on freedom of movement as it voted heavily for Remain. At last some sense is being restored to proceedings!!HYUFD said:
Probably the former but as NI voted Remain some flexibility could be allowed, it is England and Wales where free movement really has to end as both voted Leavewilliamglenn said:
Will a Polish citizen in Dublin need a work permit to transfer to the Belfast branch of their company or will free movement apply?HYUFD said:
As I said the regulatory alignment in so far as NI goes will apply but the UK will still end free movement and leave the single marketwilliamglenn said:
Do you really believe the agreement means that a Canada style deal could apply to Northern Ireland?HYUFD said:
Wrong again, it was agreement over the Irish border and some regulatory alignment which enabled FTA talks to begin but free movement will still end and we will still leave the single marketwilliamglenn said:FPT as more relevant here:
Where ‘we’ doesn’t mean the United Kingdom, but Great Britain. Can the Conservative and Unionist Party, propped up by the DUP, afford to do that?HYUFD said:
No it isn't, even Barnier has said we will get a Canada style FTA on goods if we leave the single market and end free movementwilliamglenn said:0 -
Yes, I meant "any more than flats".crandles said:
Did you mean "how it is they can ban leasehold houses any more than flats?"TheWhiteRabbit said:
I meant, how it is they can ban leasehold houses and more than flats.crandles said:
Thats cos you can't ban leasehold flats, the flats belong to whoever owns the land so to do flats on different floors belonging to different people there is no other way than having leasehold flats. Think they are just banning new leasehold houses.TheWhiteRabbit said:
It's going to be banned, the government has announced.Yorkcity said:Be good if the housing minister took a serious look at UK housebuilders selling new houses on a leasehold basis.Seems to me just a scam to make more money .Also it leaves the buyers in a leasehold property trap.
Interestingly they are seeking to bean leasehold "houses" (i.e. not flats) rather than just escalating ground rents. I do wonder how that is supposed to work.
There is no legal thing as a flat. If anything its leaseholds status is a giveaway.
Note I said it was *new* leasehold houses they are banning. So if it is existing house or flat it can continue, but if you try to do it with a newly built house, presumably 'leasehold sale' will be voidable as illegal.
It is conceptually quite difficult to do. There are some luxury developments, in particular, where leasehold service charges make sense for houses.
Which raises the question: is it the leasehold we have a problem with? Or was it a novel investment product - the ground rent escalator - that the housebuilders invented, then flogged?
If the ground rent had been a flat £100/year, I doubt anyone would have cared.0 -
Shows how poor her opposition is thenCyclefree said:Honestly, how could May have survived so long in politics and been so utterly rubbish at it?
How?0 -
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Your posts appear to be a series of contentions presented as facts. That is not to say they aren't opinions worth reading, simply that their presentation is somewhat off-key.HYUFD said:
No it wouldn't as what Ireland cares about is no tariffs not free movement for Polish plumbers in Ireland.williamglenn said:
Full alignment with the rules of the single market that support the all-island economy would absolutely rule out imposing work permits in cases like that.HYUFD said:
Probably the former but as NI voted Remain some flexibility could be allowed, it is England and Wales where free movement really has to end as both voted Leavewilliamglenn said:
Will a Polish citizen in Dublin need a work permit to transfer to the Belfast branch of their company or will free movement apply?HYUFD said:
As I said the regulatory alignment in so far as NI goes will apply but the UK will still end free movement and leave the single marketwilliamglenn said:
Do you really believe the agreement means that a Canada style deal could apply to Northern Ireland?HYUFD said:
Wrong again, it was agreement over the Irish border and some regulatory alignment which enabled FTA talks to begin but free movement will still end and we will still leave the single marketwilliamglenn said:FPT as more relevant here:
Where ‘we’ doesn’t mean the United Kingdom, but Great Britain. Can the Conservative and Unionist Party, propped up by the DUP, afford to do that?HYUFD said:
No it isn't, even Barnier has said we will get a Canada style FTA on goods if we leave the single market and end free movementwilliamglenn said:
Interesting that 'the UK' has now become 'England and Wales'.0 -
Yes - but even personal care at home can cost tens of thousands a year if it's round the clock or involves multiple visits per day. Those £17 per hour costs - when the carer provably barely spends 20 minutes with the client - soon add up. Why does the person worth £3m pay nothing but the person worth £40k pays the entire cost until they hit £23k? Why should the means test differ depending on whether its home or residential care.HYUFD said:
That is only the case with personal care at home, if residential care is needed that £3m home would have to be sold and only £23k guaranteed to be keptbrendan16 said:
It's a nightmare for families and the elderly needing care - including the difference between what should be NHS continuing health care and what is local authority social care.PClipp said:
I thought that was what the Coalition Government was working towards. Unfortunately the Independent Conservative Government put an end to it. And now they seem to be doing a U-turn.JohnO said:
As a county councillor all I can say is that the sooner adult social care is reintegrated with the health service and funded by direct taxation, the better. The present arrangement is a nightmare.Big_G_NorthWales said:Green paper on social care now moved to Health Department. Sky reporting a chorus of approval for this move
I see the Conservatives as just incompetent.
And of course we have the nonsense whereby an elderly person on a low income who owns a £3m house but has only £20k in savings can receive totally free home care but an elderly person on the same income who has £40k in savings (perhaps inherited from a friend) but lives in a rented council flat and owns no home has to pay 100 per cent of their home care costs.
How immoral is it that someone with £3m in assets gets free home care but someone with only £40k pays 100 per cent of the costs until their savings are below £23k - just because the latters assets are not in bricks and mortar?
Mrs May of course sought to address that shameful situation with her ill fated dementia tax - but Labour was on the side of the multi millionaire home owner not the council tenant!
The value of home should be taken account of with all other assets - not ignored for home care. A charge can be placed on the home and paid out of the estate when they die - so the elderly person bears no costs while alive.
Of course as we saw with the dementia tax debate many people seem to care more about their future inheritance than the well being of granny!0 -
Indeed. Although some may prefer a Charge as they don't actually see their family home sold in their own lifetime. Might be a source of some small comfort.HYUFD said:
Still with the same effect.rottenborough said:
Or a charge put on the house, to be sold on death.HYUFD said:
That is only the case with personal care at home, if residential care is needed that £3m home would have to be sold and only £23k guaranteed to be keptbrendan16 said:
It's a nightmare for families and the elderly needing care - including the difference between what should be NHS continuing health care and what is local authority social care.PClipp said:
I thought that was what the Coalition Government was working towards. Unfortunately the Independent Conservative Government put an end to it. And now they seem to be doing a U-turn.JohnO said:
As a county councillor all I can say is that the sooner adult social care is reintegrated with the health service and funded by direct taxation, the better. The present arrangement is a nightmare.Big_G_NorthWales said:Green paper on social care now moved to Health Department. Sky reporting a chorus of approval for this move
I see the Conservatives as just incompetent.
And of course we have the nonsense whereby an elderly person on a low income who owns a £3m house but has only £20k in savings can receive totally free home care but an elderly person on the same income who has £40k in savings (perhaps inherited from a friend) but lives in a rented council flat and owns no home has to pay 100 per cent of their home care costs.
How immoral is it that someone with £3m in assets gets free home care but someone with only £40k pays 100 per cent of the costs until their savings are below £23k - just because the latters assets are not in bricks and mortar?
Mrs May of course sought to address that shameful situation with her ill fated dementia tax - but Labour was on the side of the multi millionaire home owner not the council tenant!
But it's a mess. A total mess. And politicians of all parties should be ashamed that they have let it get into this mess over years if not decades.0 -
No as London is not one of the 3 nations and 1 province of the UK but a city of England. In any case it is tariffs the Irish want to avoid not to protect free movement for Polish plumbersAnazina said:
Splendid news. By that token London will also have 'flexibility' on freedom of movement as it voted heavily for Remain. At last some sense is being restored to proceedings!!HYUFD said:
Probably the former but as NI voted Remain some flexibility could be allowed, it is England and Wales where free movement really has to end as both voted Leavewilliamglenn said:
Will a Polish citizen in Dublin need a work permit to transfer to the Belfast branch of their company or will free movement apply?HYUFD said:
As I said the regulatory alignment in so far as NI goes will apply but the UK will still end free movement and leave the single marketwilliamglenn said:
Do you really believe the agreement means that a Canada style deal could apply to Northern Ireland?HYUFD said:
Wrong again, it was agreement over the Irish border and some regulatory alignment which enabled FTA talks to begin but free movement will still end and we will still leave the single marketwilliamglenn said:FPT as more relevant here:
Where ‘we’ doesn’t mean the United Kingdom, but Great Britain. Can the Conservative and Unionist Party, propped up by the DUP, afford to do that?HYUFD said:
No it isn't, even Barnier has said we will get a Canada style FTA on goods if we leave the single market and end free movementwilliamglenn said:0 -
0
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You mean Boris? Yes, he's crap.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Shows how poor her opposition is thenCyclefree said:Honestly, how could May have survived so long in politics and been so utterly rubbish at it?
How?0 -
I’d dispute that she’s “utterly rubbish”. Although I know there have been gripes with her tenure, you don’t generate the staying power in a department like the Home Office without having something about you.Cyclefree said:Honestly, how could May have survived so long in politics and been so utterly rubbish at it?
How?
However, as with Brown who built up a fiefdom at the Treasury, these examples show us that managing a Great Office of State doesn’t mean you’ll translate that into success as a party leader and PM.
I still think she’s better than Brown though. Who can forget the absolute shambles the last couple of years of his government was. No matter how disorganised and disoreintated this government is, it has not yet stopped to those lows.
0 -
BBC blooper - they haven't edited the montage shown just before the news headlines on the hour - still shows Carrie reporting from China!0
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Reshuffle latest:
Aitor Karanka named as Forest manager.0 -
As the home is the biggest family asset and as the general election proved voters believe should be protected if the owner is still living in it but receiving care not sold to pay for care as is the case if they move into residential care and leave the home. May proposed a dementia tax, she lost the majority needed to push it through, that is democracy, toughbrendan16 said:
Yes - but even personal care at home can cost tens of thousands a year if it's round the clock or involves multiple visits per day. Those £17 per hour costs - when the carer provably barely spends 20 minutes with the client - soon add up. Why does the person worth £3m pay nothing but the person worth £40k pays the entire cost until they hit £23k? Why should the means test differ depending on whether its home or residential care.HYUFD said:
That is only the case with personal care at home, if residential care is needed that £3m home would have to be sold and only £23k guaranteed to be keptbrendan16 said:
It's a nightmare for families and the elderly needing care - including the difference between what should be NHS continuing health care and what is local authority social care.PClipp said:
I thought that was what the Coalition Government was working towards. Unfortunately the Independent Conservative Government put an end to it. And now they seem to be doing a U-turn.JohnO said:
As a county councillor all I can say is that the sooner adult social care is reintegrated with the health service and funded by direct taxation, the better. The present arrangement is a nightmare.Big_G_NorthWales said:Green paper on social care now moved to Health Department. Sky reporting a chorus of approval for this move
I see the Conservatives as just incompetent.
And of course we have the nonsense whereby an elderly person on a low income who owns a £3m house but has only £20k in savings can receive totally free home care but me owner not the council tenant!
The value of home should be taken account of with all other assets - not ignored for home care. A charge can be placed on the home and paid out of the estate when they die - so the elderly person bears no costs while alive.
Of course as we saw with the dementia tax debate many people seem to care more about their future inheritance than the well being of granny!0 -
I agree Boris is hopelessSandyRentool said:
You mean Boris? Yes, he's crap.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Shows how poor her opposition is thenCyclefree said:Honestly, how could May have survived so long in politics and been so utterly rubbish at it?
How?0 -
Feu duty was abolished in Scotland.TheWhiteRabbit said:
Yes, I meant "any more than flats".crandles said:
Did you mean "how it is they can ban leasehold houses any more than flats?"TheWhiteRabbit said:
I meant, how it is they can ban leasehold houses and more than flats.crandles said:
Thats cos you can't ban leasehold flats, the flats belong to whoever owns the land so to do flats on different floors belonging to different people there is no other way than having leasehold flats. Think they are just banning new leasehold houses.TheWhiteRabbit said:
It's going to be banned, the government has announced.Yorkcity said:Be good if the housing minister took a serious look at UK housebuilders selling new houses on a leasehold basis.Seems to me just a scam to make more money .Also it leaves the buyers in a leasehold property trap.
Interestingly they are seeking to bean leasehold "houses" (i.e. not flats) rather than just escalating ground rents. I do wonder how that is supposed to work.
There is no legal thing as a flat. If anything its leaseholds status is a giveaway.
Note I said it was *new* leasehold houses they are banning. So if it is existing house or flat it can continue, but if you try to do it with a newly built house, presumably 'leasehold sale' will be voidable as illegal.
It is conceptually quite difficult to do. There are some luxury developments, in particular, where leasehold service charges make sense for houses.
Which raises the question: is it the leasehold we have a problem with? Or was it a novel investment product - the ground rent escalator - that the housebuilders invented, then flogged?
If the ground rent had been a flat £100/year, I doubt anyone would have cared.0 -
Most countries pay for social care through social insurance as should we through National Insurancerottenborough said:
Indeed. Although some may prefer a Charge as they don't actually see their family home sold in their own lifetime. Might be a source of some small comfort.HYUFD said:
Still with the same effect.rottenborough said:
Or a charge put on the house, to be sold on death.HYUFD said:
That is only the case with personal care at home, if residential care is needed that £3m home would have to be sold and only £23k guaranteed to be keptbrendan16 said:
It's a nightmare for families and the elderly needing care - including the difference between what should be NHS continuing health care and what is local authority social care.PClipp said:
I thought that was what the Coalition Government was working towards. Unfortunately the Independent Conservative Government put an end to it. And now they seem to be doing a U-turn.JohnO said:
As a county councillor all I can say is that the sooner adult social care is reintegrated with the health service and funded by direct taxation, the better. The present arrangement is a nightmare.Big_G_NorthWales said:Green paper on social care now moved to Health Department. Sky reporting a chorus of approval for this move
I see the Conservatives as just incompetent.
And of course we have the nonsense whereby an elderly person on a low income who owns a £3m house but has only £20k in savings can receive totally free home care but an elderly person on the same income who has £40k in savings (perhaps inherited from a friend) but lives in a rented council flat and owns no home has to pay 100 per cent of their home care costs.
How immoral is it that someone with £3m in assets gets free home care but someone with only £40k pays 100 per cent of the costs until their savings are below £23k - just because the latters assets are not in bricks and mortar?
Mrs May of course sought to address that shameful situation with her ill fated dementia tax - but Labour was on the side of the multi millionaire home owner not the council tenant!
But it's a mess. A total mess. And politicians of all parties should be ashamed that they have let it get into this mess over years if not decades.0 -
So May was too weak to sack Greening. Instead she offered her another job and Greening told her to do one. Now May is scratching her head trying to fill the DWP job.
Surely Tezzie will sack Loathsome properly - and with a smile on her face.0 -
So, has the Minister for Hard Brexit been named yet?0
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Is this one of those times we're expected to agree with Hodges, or act like anything he says is wrong?rottenborough said:0 -
Does the government even have a Brexit majority in Parliament? The recent vote that they lost thanks to a europhile rebellion suggests not.rottenborough said: it gets better:
https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/950456022832943104
P.S. I don't remember Justine being one of the rebels. I see that she could make matters worse!-1 -
She might regret that. Leadsom has a clean pair of hands on the government's Brexit delivery and can legitimately point to her argument during the leadership election that we needed a PM who believed in Brexit.SandyRentool said:Surely Tezzie will sack Loathsome properly - and with a smile on her face.
0 -
Greening leaves after refusing DWP, so at last May stands her ground
https://mobile.twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/950453329393586176?ref_src=twsrc^tfw&ref_url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-426025700 -
Greening was part of the "payroll vote" she'd have to resign from Cabinet to rebel.Anazina said:
Does the government even have a Brexit majority in Parliament? The recent vote that they lost thanks to a europhile rebellion suggests not.rottenborough said: it gets better:
https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/950456022832943104
P.S. I don't remember Justine being one of the rebels. I see that she could make matters worse!
Now she's a free agent. She only has the whip to worry about so she can rebel to her hearts content.0 -
Yes as Corbyn backs BrexitAnazina said:
Does the government even have a Brexit majority in Parliament? The recent vote that they lost thanks to a europhile rebellion suggests not.rottenborough said: it gets better:
https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/950456022832943104
P.S. I don't remember Justine being one of the rebels. I see that she could make matters worse!0 -
Ugh, Damian Hinds is a former grammar school boy.
Hopefully Mrs May will have learned the lesson of last June that grammar schools were rejected by the country when they denied her a majority.
0 -
She also has one of the most pro-Remain constituencies in the country.Philip_Thompson said:
Greening was part of the "payroll vote" she'd have to resign from Cabinet to rebel.Anazina said:
Does the government even have a Brexit majority in Parliament? The recent vote that they lost thanks to a europhile rebellion suggests not.rottenborough said: it gets better:
https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/950456022832943104
P.S. I don't remember Justine being one of the rebels. I see that she could make matters worse!
Now she's a free agent. She only has the whip to worry about so she can rebel to her hearts content.0 -
Except Umunna and Ian Murray still believe that they are Blair's successors, along with Kinnock and Smith, and that all they have to do is just wait until the membership sees the errors of their ways and return to the true New Labour path... Ain't gonna happen. Murray is a very good constituency MP, just a very lousy tactical Westminster one, but like Kinnock and Smith, if the new constituency alignments come in, then they will lose their seats, and with their records, they will have difficulty in getting new ones as the new CLP's will be able to decide who the candidates will be, and the new executive committees will not be made up from the friends of the previous MP's.HYUFD said:
The battle between Umunna and Corbyn's view of the Labour Party will dominate Labour for the next decade, Umunna clearly wants to be Macron to Corbyn's HollandeRichard_Nabavi said:Reports that Chuka Umanna has flounced out of a PLP meeting because Corbyn has reiterated Labour's policy of leaving the Single Market and Customs Union:
18:55
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2018/jan/08/cabinet-reshuffle-theresa-may-tory-government-pm-to-start-shifting-ministers-politics-live0 -
@bbcnickrobinson: New Education Secretary @DamianHinds is a grammar school boy. Is that why he was preferred to @JustineGreening ?0
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@matt_dathan: At the moment the Cabinet has fewer women in than this morning. This re-branding exercise is going really well
#Reshuffle0 -
If she was after someone who went to a thoroughly shite comprehensive, I'd happily have taken a peerage.TheScreamingEagles said:Ugh, Damian Hinds is a former grammar school boy.
Hopefully Mrs May will have learned the lesson of last June that grammar schools were rejected by the country when they denied her a majority.0 -
0
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Was that one of the aims of the reshuffle, to rebrand their feminine credentials?Scott_P said:@matt_dathan: At the moment the Cabinet has fewer women in than this morning. This re-branding exercise is going really well
#Reshuffle0 -
Good observation. I have a feeling that the Labour Party in a few years time won't look like anything that Blair or Corbyn would recognise. All those new members are learning the ropes and assessing the landscape. When it turns out that Corbyn isn't what they are projecting onto him, the hunt will be on for someone who is. I don't think the Blairites will like that any more than they like Corbyn.OchEye said:
Except Umunna and Ian Murray still believe that they are Blair's successors, along with Kinnock and Smith, and that all they have to do is just wait until the membership sees the errors of their ways and return to the true New Labour path... Ain't gonna happen. Murray is a very good constituency MP, just a very lousy tactical Westminster one, but like Kinnock and Smith, if the new constituency alignments come in, then they will lose their seats, and with their records, they will have difficulty in getting new ones as the new CLP's will be able to decide who the candidates will be, and the new executive committees will not be made up from the friends of the previous MP's.HYUFD said:
The battle between Umunna and Corbyn's view of the Labour Party will dominate Labour for the next decade, Umunna clearly wants to be Macron to Corbyn's HollandeRichard_Nabavi said:Reports that Chuka Umanna has flounced out of a PLP meeting because Corbyn has reiterated Labour's policy of leaving the Single Market and Customs Union:
18:55
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2018/jan/08/cabinet-reshuffle-theresa-may-tory-government-pm-to-start-shifting-ministers-politics-live0 -
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No, the Tories had a big poll lead with the grammar school policy it was the dementia tax that lost the majority. Every poll shows a plurality back more grammars and a majority existing grammarsTheScreamingEagles said:Ugh, Damian Hinds is a former grammar school boy.
Hopefully Mrs May will have learned the lesson of last June that grammar schools were rejected by the country when they denied her a majority.0 -
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When I become the country's first Directly Elected Dictator you can be my Education Secretary.tlg86 said:
If she was after someone who went to a thoroughly shite comprehensive, I'd happily have taken a peerage.TheScreamingEagles said:Ugh, Damian Hinds is a former grammar school boy.
Hopefully Mrs May will have learned the lesson of last June that grammar schools were rejected by the country when they denied her a majority.0 -
Fairly marginal too...williamglenn said:
She also has one of the most pro-Remain constituencies in the country.Philip_Thompson said:
Greening was part of the "payroll vote" she'd have to resign from Cabinet to rebel.Anazina said:
Does the government even have a Brexit majority in Parliament? The recent vote that they lost thanks to a europhile rebellion suggests not.rottenborough said: it gets better:
https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/950456022832943104
P.S. I don't remember Justine being one of the rebels. I see that she could make matters worse!
Now she's a free agent. She only has the whip to worry about so she can rebel to her hearts content.0 -
Sad to see Greening go. Hopefully she will return to the front benches soon, though I imagine it’ll be after the May premiership comes to an end.0
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Damian Hinds gets worse.
1) He's a Papist
2) He went to Oxford
3) He read PPE0 -
I'm sure she was capable of being convinced otherwise on the subject.Scott_P said:
A dull reshuffle though, doesn't seem like achieving much in fairness.0 -
Macron only got elected after Hollande faced heavy defeat, Hollande still narrowly beat Sarkozy firstOchEye said:
Except Umunna and Ian Murray still believe that they are Blair's successors, along with Kinnock and Smith, and that all they have to do is just wait until the membership sees the errors of their ways and return to the true New Labour path... Ain't gonna happen. Murray is a very good constituency MP, just a very lousy tactical Westminster one, but like Kinnock and Smith, if the new constituency alignments come in, then they will lose their seats, and with their records, they will have difficulty in getting new ones as the new CLP's will be able to decide who the candidates will be, and the new executive committees will not be made up from the friends of the previous MP's.HYUFD said:
The battle between Umunna and Corbyn's view of the Labour Party will dominate Labour for the next decade, Umunna clearly wants to be Macron to Corbyn's HollandeRichard_Nabavi said:Reports that Chuka Umanna has flounced out of a PLP meeting because Corbyn has reiterated Labour's policy of leaving the Single Market and Customs Union:
18:55
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2018/jan/08/cabinet-reshuffle-theresa-may-tory-government-pm-to-start-shifting-ministers-politics-live0 -
So is Labour going to argue that the Tories should never have called the referendum , they should never have consulted the People about their future, that its none of the People's business?0
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Brexit is a complete mess and requires imaginative thinking. London is a devolved region of the UK with its own directly elected administration. Regional visas work perfectly well in other countries, such as Canada. The obsession from neobrexiteers like yourself with forcing restrictions on free movement on the UK, sorry GB, sorry England & Wales is prevent sensible solutions being found.HYUFD said:
No as London is not one of the 3 nations and 1 province of the UK but a city of England. In any case it is tariffs the Irish want to avoid not to protect free movement for Polish plumbersAnazina said:
Splendid news. By that token London will also have 'flexibility' on freedom of movement as it voted heavily for Remain. At last some sense is being restored to proceedings!!HYUFD said:
Probably the former but as NI voted Remain some flexibility could be allowed, it is England and Wales where free movement really has to end as both voted Leavewilliamglenn said:
Will a Polish citizen in Dublin need a work permit to transfer to the Belfast branch of their company or will free movement apply?HYUFD said:
As I said the regulatory alignment in so far as NI goes will apply but the UK will still end free movement and leave the single marketwilliamglenn said:
Do you really believe the agreement means that a Canada style deal could apply to Northern Ireland?HYUFD said:
Wrong again, it was agreement over the Irish border and some regulatory alignment which enabled FTA talks to begin but free movement will still end and we will still leave the single marketwilliamglenn said:FPT as more relevant here:
Where ‘we’ doesn’t mean the United Kingdom, but Great Britain. Can the Conservative and Unionist Party, propped up by the DUP, afford to do that?HYUFD said:
No it isn't, even Barnier has said we will get a Canada style FTA on goods if we leave the single market and end free movementwilliamglenn said:0 -
As a LibDem?TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
When in a hole....williamglenn said:0
This discussion has been closed.