politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Support growing for another EURef in an unlikely publication –
Comments
-
No, "we" wouldn't.glw said:
And if we had voted Remain, we would be expected to go along with such a terrible idea. Thank God we took the last chance we would ever be offered to say No.Alanbrooke said:
Martin Schulz demands creation of Unitted sates of Europe by 2025
any country which doesnt want it will be forced to leave EU
https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article171358179/Schulz-will-Vereinigte-Staaten-von-Europa-bis-2025.html
1) Britain had secured an opt-out from ever closer union under David Cameron's negotiation
2) there's no mechanism to force states out of the EU in this way
3) Martin Schulz doesn't set German policy, never mind an EU agenda
But apart from that, your dystopian alternative history is spot on.0 -
He is just showboating. All countries would have to agree.glw said:
And if we had voted Remain, we would be expected to go along with such a terrible idea. Thank God we took the last chance we would ever be offered to say No.Alanbrooke said:
Martin Schulz demands creation of Unitted sates of Europe by 2025
any country which doesnt want it will be forced to leave EU
https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article171358179/Schulz-will-Vereinigte-Staaten-von-Europa-bis-2025.html0 -
How many seats did the SDLP get at the GEScott_P said:
? 0 -
Especially with NI turnout levels. Don't you need at least 65% to get a majority?CarlottaVance said:Someone having trouble with maths:
https://twitter.com/sinnfeinireland/status/938760420797579264?s=170 -
If we'd voted Remain, we would have been able to veto the idea. Brexiters really do exist in their own little fantasy world.glw said:
And if we had voted Remain, we would be expected to go along with such a terrible idea. Thank God we took the last chance we would ever be offered to say No.Alanbrooke said:
Martin Schulz demands creation of Unitted sates of Europe by 2025
any country which doesnt want it will be forced to leave EU
https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article171358179/Schulz-will-Vereinigte-Staaten-von-Europa-bis-2025.html0 -
If we had voted Remain I have no doubt whatsoever that Remainers would claim that it was a mandate for further integration, and that the EU would have seen the vote as an endorsement of the project.AlastairMeeks said:No, "we" wouldn't.
1) Britain had secured an opt-out from ever closer union under David Cameron's negotiation
2) there's no mechanism to force states out of the EU in this way
3) Martin Schulz doesn't set German policy, never mind an EU agenda
But apart from that, your dystopian alternative history is spot on.
They sure as hell wouldn't have said, "we'll the Brits are reluctantly remaining, and want no more Europe".0 -
Oh, I think the reactionary prism of PB Torydom is pretty consistent.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Divvie, you don't think that people can legitimately view different events differently, or change their perception of an individual over time?
Not everyone's opinion is as cast-iron and restricted as the SNP party line...
'It's awful that our right wing darling Osborne gets booed.'
'Osborne is awful because he's not sufficiently right wing.'
Though of course many of the same people snivelling at Osborne getting booed were applauding heartily at Salmond getting booed at the Masters. I guess that shows a certain fluidity of principle.
0 -
@GuyReuters: Ireland and UK very close to Brexit border deal, moving quickly, seems a matter of hours - Irish official @padraichalpin0
-
If we had voted Remain the Remainer UK government would be telling us how it was a demonstration that there was unequivocal support for all things EU. Thankfully we didn't and now they are dancing to our tune even if the process is like pulling teeth.JonathanD said:
If we'd voted Remain, we would have been able to veto the idea. Brexiters really do exist in their own little fantasy world.glw said:
And if we had voted Remain, we would be expected to go along with such a terrible idea. Thank God we took the last chance we would ever be offered to say No.Alanbrooke said:
Martin Schulz demands creation of Unitted sates of Europe by 2025
any country which doesnt want it will be forced to leave EU
https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article171358179/Schulz-will-Vereinigte-Staaten-von-Europa-bis-2025.html0 -
@bbclaurak: Reuters now quoting Irish officials saying a deal is close - UK govt believes sides were far apart now getting closer, but not there yet0
-
But your problem is that the contempt you hold is simply not shared by the vast majority of people, including Remainers. You really are an extremist fanatic over this and like all fanatics you suffer from the delusion that yours is a commonly held view.AlastairMeeks said:
I don't think you begin to understand the contempt which many Remain supporters feel towards the Leave campaign and its leaders. It's a contempt that has only strengthened since the referendum result thanks to the conduct of the government and the swivel-eyed lunatics trumpeting its efforts.MarqueeMark said:
Yourself and Scott are utterly extreme in the vitriol you pour on Brexit. Most Remainers are baffled by the decision, concerned that it could end up a terrible outcome - but prepared to wait to see what actually gets delivered. They are much more pragmatic about the process. If, ultimately, the planes keep flying, the borders stay open, they can still visit their villas in Tuscany, can still buy their favourite premier cru - hey, what was all the fuss about?AlastairMeeks said:
I long ago came to terms with the fact that Britain is leaving the EU.
You've written five paragraphs arguing from authority and not a word about how you're going to mend fences with the large number of British people who you're not negotiating with, who are completely alienated from your ambition and who think you're mad and malign. Now, how do you propose to get them on board with your shopworn idea of Brexit that is visibly wilting now that it has been exposed to sunlight for an extended period?
I am also realisitic. I don't expect the final Brexit settlement to satisfy either you or Scott. Because our negotiatiors will not be conceding to a written statement from all Leave voters that they are pig-shit thick and all acted out of spite for their fellow Brits.
Written in their own blood.
And even then, I'm sure that would just be start of your demands.
At some point some form of reconstruction is going to need to be attempted. This time the Confederacy has won the war. They are going to have to work out how to make peace with the Union's supporters. So far, not only have they not tried, they haven't even realised there's a problem.
It is not. You are in a tiny minority.0 -
You move in entirely the wrong circles to judge this.Richard_Tyndall said:
But your problem is that the contempt you hold is simply not shared by the vast majority of people, including Remainers. You really are an extremist fanatic over this and like all fanatics you suffer from the delusion that yours is a commonly held view.AlastairMeeks said:
I don't think you begin to understand the contempt which many Remain supporters feel towards the Leave campaign and its leaders. It's a contempt that has only strengthened since the referendum result thanks to the conduct of the government and the swivel-eyed lunatics trumpeting its efforts.MarqueeMark said:
Yourself and Scott are utterly extreme in the vitriol you pour on Brexit. Most Remainers are baffled by the decision, concerned that it could end up a terrible outcome - but prepared to wait to see what actually gets delivered. They are much more pragmatic about the process. If, ultimately, the planes keep flying, the borders stay open, they can still visit their villas in Tuscany, can still buy their favourite premier cru - hey, what was all the fuss about?AlastairMeeks said:
I long ago came to terms with the fact that Britain is leaving the EU.
You've written five paragraphs arguing from authority and not a word about how you're going to mend fences with the large number of British people who you're not negotiating with, who are completely alienated from your ambition and who think you're mad and malign. Now, how do you propose to get them on board with your shopworn idea of Brexit that is visibly wilting now that it has been exposed to sunlight for an extended period?
I am also realisitic. I don't expect the final Brexit settlement to satisfy either you or Scott. Because our negotiatiors will not be conceding to a written statement from all Leave voters that they are pig-shit thick and all acted out of spite for their fellow Brits.
Written in their own blood.
And even then, I'm sure that would just be start of your demands.
At some point some form of reconstruction is going to need to be attempted. This time the Confederacy has won the war. They are going to have to work out how to make peace with the Union's supporters. So far, not only have they not tried, they haven't even realised there's a problem.
It is not. You are in a tiny minority.0 -
You make it abundantly apparent in nearly ever post.AlastairMeeks said:
I don't think you begin to understand the contempt which many Remain supporters feel towards the Leave campaign and its leaders.MarqueeMark said:
Yourself and Scott are utterly extreme in the vitriol you pour on Brexit. Most Remainers are baffled by the decision, concerned that it could end up a terrible outcome - but prepared to wait to see what actually gets delivered. They are much more pragmatic about the process. If, ultimately, the planes keep flying, the borders stay open, they can still visit their villas in Tuscany, can still buy their favourite premier cru - hey, what was all the fuss about?AlastairMeeks said:
I long ago came to terms with the fact that Britain is leaving the EU.
You've written five paragraphs arguing from authority and not a word about how you're going to mend fences with the large number of British people who you're not negotiating with, who are completely alienated from your ambition and who think you're mad and malign. Now, how do you propose to get them on board with your shopworn idea of Brexit that is visibly wilting now that it has been exposed to sunlight for an extended period?
I am also realisitic. I don't expect the final Brexit settlement to satisfy either you or Scott. Because our negotiatiors will not be conceding to a written statement from all Leave voters that they are pig-shit thick and all acted out of spite for their fellow Brits.
Written in their own blood.
And even then, I'm sure that would just be start of your demands.
But “reaching out” only has to go one way, or so you say.....
How have Remain supporters treated Leave supporters since the referendum.
If you’d been treated with such contempt would you want to “reach out” to them?0 -
I understand YOUR contempt. But you are a caricature of hatred. A cartoon. Why the hell should any serious political leader seek to meet you part way, let alone half way, when your position is so ridiculous?AlastairMeeks said:
I don't think you begin to understand the contempt which many Remain supporters feel towards the Leave campaign and its leaders. It's a contempt that has only strengthened since the referendum result thanks to the conduct of the government and the swivel-eyed lunatics trumpeting its efforts.MarqueeMark said:
Yourself and Scott are utterly extreme in the vitriol you pour on Brexit. Most Remainers are baffled by the decision, concerned that it could end up a terrible outcome - but prepared to wait to see what actually gets delivered. They are much more pragmatic about the process. If, ultimately, the planes keep flying, the borders stay open, they can still visit their villas in Tuscany, can still buy their favourite premier cru - hey, what was all the fuss about?AlastairMeeks said:
I long ago came to terms with the fact that Britain is leaving the EU.
You've written five paragraphs arguing from authority and not a word about how you're going to mend fences with the large number of British people who you're not negotiating with, who are completely alienated from your ambition and who think you're mad and malign. Now, how do you propose to get them on board with your shopworn idea of Brexit that is visibly wilting now that it has been exposed to sunlight for an extended period?
I am also realisitic. I don't expect the final Brexit settlement to satisfy either you or Scott. Because our negotiatiors will not be conceding to a written statement from all Leave voters that they are pig-shit thick and all acted out of spite for their fellow Brits.
Written in their own blood.
And even then, I'm sure that would just be start of your demands.
At some point some form of reconstruction is going to need to be attempted. This time the Confederacy has won the war. They are going to have to work out how to make peace with the Union's supporters. So far, not only have they not tried, they haven't even realised there's a problem.
Neither yourself nor Scott_P have made constructive proposals that show you are reconciled to leaving the EU. All you have done is sneer. Not a good look on someone who lost the argument.0 -
Leave supporters have the obligation to make this work. It's their show. But they don't seem to have the slightest interest in trying.CarlottaVance said:
You make it abundantly apparent in nearly ever post.AlastairMeeks said:
I don't think you begin to understand the contempt which many Remain supporters feel towards the Leave campaign and its leaders.MarqueeMark said:
Yourself and Scott are utterly extreme in the vitriol you pour on Brexit. Most Remainers are baffled by the decision, concerned that it could end up a terrible outcome - but prepared to wait to see what actually gets delivered. They are much more pragmatic about the process. If, ultimately, the planes keep flying, the borders stay open, they can still visit their villas in Tuscany, can still buy their favourite premier cru - hey, what was all the fuss about?AlastairMeeks said:
I long ago came to terms with the fact that Britain is leaving the EU.
You've written five paragraphs arguing from authority and not a word about how you're going to mend fences with the large number of British people who you're not negotiating with, who are completely alienated from your ambition and who think you're mad and malign. Now, how do you propose to get them on board with your shopworn idea of Brexit that is visibly wilting now that it has been exposed to sunlight for an extended period?
I am also realisitic. I don't expect the final Brexit settlement to satisfy either you or Scott. Because our negotiatiors will not be conceding to a written statement from all Leave voters that they are pig-shit thick and all acted out of spite for their fellow Brits.
Written in their own blood.
And even then, I'm sure that would just be start of your demands.
But “reaching out” only has to go one way, or so you say.....
How have Remain supporters treated Leave supporters since the referendum.
If you’d been treated with such contempt would you want to “reach out” to them?0 -
In the early days there were free raffles and the like giving out hundreds of bitcoins (in Dec 2010 they were worth about 20c each!)FrancisUrquhart said:
In the last couple of years of my professional poker career, there was a very soft site that operated in only bitcoin. I am very very very sad I decided not to play there. I know an individual who won 10,000 bitcoin on there.
Somewhere there will be a person with millions sitting forgotten on a USB stick.
0 -
A seamless segue from "suck it up loser" to "why aren't you putting your shoulder to the wheel?" An A* in mindless Brexit commentary for you.MarqueeMark said:
I understand YOUR contempt. But you are a caricature of hatred. A cartoon. Why the hell should any serious political leader seek to meet you part way, let alone half way, when your position is so ridiculous?AlastairMeeks said:
I don't think you begin to understand the contempt which many Remain supporters feel towards the Leave campaign and its leaders. It's a contempt that has only strengthened since the referendum result thanks to the conduct of the government and the swivel-eyed lunatics trumpeting its efforts.MarqueeMark said:
Yourself and Scott are utterly extreme in the vitriol you pour on Brexit. Most Remainers are baffled by the decision, concerned that it could end up a terrible outcome - but prepared to wait to see what actually gets delivered. They are much more pragmatic about the process. If, ultimately, the planes keep flying, the borders stay open, they can still visit their villas in Tuscany, can still buy their favourite premier cru - hey, what was all the fuss about?AlastairMeeks said:
I long ago came to terms with the fact that Britain is leaving the EU.
You've written five paragraphs arguing from authority and not a word about how you're going to mend fences with the large number of British people who you're not negotiating with, who are completely alienated from your ambition and who think you're mad and malign. Now, how do you propose to get them on board with your shopworn idea of Brexit that is visibly wilting now that it has been exposed to sunlight for an extended period?
I am also realisitic. I don't expect the final Brexit settlement to satisfy either you or Scott. Because our negotiatiors will not be conceding to a written statement from all Leave voters that they are pig-shit thick and all acted out of spite for their fellow Brits.
Written in their own blood.
And even then, I'm sure that would just be start of your demands.
At some point some form of reconstruction is going to need to be attempted. This time the Confederacy has won the war. They are going to have to work out how to make peace with the Union's supporters. So far, not only have they not tried, they haven't even realised there's a problem.
Neither yourself nor Scott_P have made constructive proposals that show you are reconciled to leaving the EU. All you have done is sneer. Not a good look on someone who lost the argument.0 -
No I don't. You are not representative of the vast majority of the population includung the vast majority of Remainers. You are simply a sad abberation.AlastairMeeks said:
You move in entirely the wrong circles to judge this.Richard_Tyndall said:
But your problem is that the contempt you hold is simply not shared by the vast majority of people, including Remainers. You really are an extremist fanatic over this and like all fanatics you suffer from the delusion that yours is a commonly held view.AlastairMeeks said:
I don't think you begin to understand the contempt which many Remain supporters feel towards the Leave campaign and its leaders. It's a contempt that has only strengthened since the referendum result thanks to the conduct of the government and the swivel-eyed lunatics trumpeting its efforts.MarqueeMark said:
Yourself and Scott are utterly extreme in the vitriol you pour on Brexit. Most Remainers are baffled by the decision, concerned that it could end up a terrible outcome - but prepared to wait to see what actually gets delivered. They are much more pragmatic about the process. If, ultimately, the planes keep flying, the borders stay open, they can still visit their villas in Tuscany, can still buy their favourite premier cru - hey, what was all the fuss about?AlastairMeeks said:
I long ago came to terms with the fact that Britain is leaving the EU.
You've written five paragraphs arguing from authority and not a word about how you're going to mend fences with the large number of British people who you're not negotiating with, who are completely alienated from your ambition and who think you're mad and malign. Now, how do you propose to get them on board with your shopworn idea of Brexit that is visibly wilting now that it has been exposed to sunlight for an extended period?
I am also realisitic. I don't expect the final Brexit settlement to satisfy either you or Scott. Because our negotiatiors will not be conceding to a written statement from all Leave voters that they are pig-shit thick and all acted out of spite for their fellow Brits.
Written in their own blood.
And even then, I'm sure that would just be start of your demands.
At some point some form of reconstruction is going to need to be attempted. This time the Confederacy has won the war. They are going to have to work out how to make peace with the Union's supporters. So far, not only have they not tried, they haven't even realised there's a problem.
It is not. You are in a tiny minority.0 -
And you don’t?AlastairMeeks said:
You move in entirely the wrong circles to judge this.Richard_Tyndall said:
But your problem is that the contempt you hold is simply not shared by the vast majority of people, including Remainers. You really are an extremist fanatic over this and like all fanatics you suffer from the delusion that yours is a commonly held view.AlastairMeeks said:
I don't think you begin to understand the contempt which many Remain supporters feel towards the Leave campaign and its leaders. It's a contempt that has only strengthened since the referendum result thanks to the conduct of the government and the swivel-eyed lunatics trumpeting its efforts.MarqueeMark said:
Yourself and Scott are utterly extreme in the vitriol you pour on Brexit. Most Remainers are baffled by the decision, concerned that it could end up a terrible outcome - but prepared to wait to see what actually gets delivered. They are much more pragmatic about the process. If, ultimately, the planes keep flying, the borders stay open, they can still visit their villas in Tuscany, can still buy their favourite premier cru - hey, what was all the fuss about?AlastairMeeks said:
I long ago came to terms with the fact that Britain is leaving the EU.
You've written five paragraphs arguing from authority and not a word about how you're going to mend fences with the large number of British people who you're not negotiating with, who are completely alienated from your ambition and who think you're mad and malign. Now, how do you propose to get them on board with your shopworn idea of Brexit that is visibly wilting now that it has been exposed to sunlight for an extended period?
I am also realisitic. I don't expect the final Brexit settlement to satisfy either you or Scott. Because our negotiatiors will not be conceding to a written statement from all Leave voters that they are pig-shit thick and all acted out of spite for their fellow Brits.
Written in their own blood.
And even then, I'm sure that would just be start of your demands.
At some point some form of reconstruction is going to need to be attempted. This time the Confederacy has won the war. They are going to have to work out how to make peace with the Union's supporters. So far, not only have they not tried, they haven't even realised there's a problem.
It is not. You are in a tiny minority.0 -
Richard_Tyndall said:
No I don't. You are not representative of the vast majority of the population includung the vast majority of Remainers. You are simply a sad abberation.
I expect the election results in places like London are going to come as a continuing shock to the pair of you. If anything, antagonism is intensifying.CarlottaVance said:
And you don’t?AlastairMeeks said:
You move in entirely the wrong circles to judge this.0 -
I’d call this “pushing your luck”.......
https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/dec/07/lavinia-woodward-oxford-student-appeals-suspended-sentence-stabbing-boyfriend0 -
So London is representative......okaaaaay......AlastairMeeks said:Richard_Tyndall said:
No I don't. You are not representative of the vast majority of the population includung the vast majority of Remainers. You are simply a sad abberation.
I expect the election results in places like London are going to come as a continuing shock to the pair of you. If anything, antagonism is intensifying.CarlottaVance said:
And you don’t?AlastairMeeks said:
You move in entirely the wrong circles to judge this.0 -
I read at the time that a suspended sentence would put the kibosh on her passing the GMC's fit and proper person to practice medicine test.CarlottaVance said:I’d call this “pushing your luck”.......
https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/dec/07/lavinia-woodward-oxford-student-appeals-suspended-sentence-stabbing-boyfriend
A non custodial suspended wouldn't.0 -
No one has said anything about the fact almost half of the country voted to Remain. We accept thst and also accept that means Brexit should reflect the whole country not just those who voted Leave. What we don't accept is your infantile attempt to smear leave supporters as xenophobes. It is not a widely held view but rather that of a sad fantasist utterly divorced from reality.AlastairMeeks said:Richard_Tyndall said:
No I don't. You are not representative of the vast majority of the population includung the vast majority of Remainers. You are simply a sad abberation.
I expect the election results in places like London are going to come as a continuing shock to the pair of you. If anything, antagonism is intensifying.CarlottaVance said:
And you don’t?AlastairMeeks said:
You move in entirely the wrong circles to judge this.0 -
Writing off the capital, the most economically important area of the country and an area that comprises roughly one in nine of the Parliamentary seats. Okaaaaay......CarlottaVance said:
So London is representative......okaaaaay......AlastairMeeks said:Richard_Tyndall said:
No I don't. You are not representative of the vast majority of the population includung the vast majority of Remainers. You are simply a sad abberation.
I expect the election results in places like London are going to come as a continuing shock to the pair of you. If anything, antagonism is intensifying.CarlottaVance said:
And you don’t?AlastairMeeks said:
You move in entirely the wrong circles to judge this.0 -
Couldn’t she also get a custodial sentence?TheScreamingEagles said:
I read at the time that a suspended sentence would put the kibosh on her passing the GMC's fit and proper person to practise medicine test.CarlottaVance said:I’d call this “pushing your luck”.......
https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/dec/07/lavinia-woodward-oxford-student-appeals-suspended-sentence-stabbing-boyfriend
A non custodial suspended wouldn't.0 -
In US culture war terms, the Brexiteers find themselves tethered to a southern strategy in a country that looks more like California.CarlottaVance said:
So London is representative......okaaaaay......AlastairMeeks said:Richard_Tyndall said:
No I don't. You are not representative of the vast majority of the population includung the vast majority of Remainers. You are simply a sad abberation.
I expect the election results in places like London are going to come as a continuing shock to the pair of you. If anything, antagonism is intensifying.CarlottaVance said:
And you don’t?AlastairMeeks said:
You move in entirely the wrong circles to judge this.0 -
But will it be a deal acceptable to the DUP and the hard-line Brexiteers?Scott_P said:@GuyReuters: Ireland and UK very close to Brexit border deal, moving quickly, seems a matter of hours - Irish official @padraichalpin
0 -
On the one opinion poll that I'm aware of conducted on the matter, 43% of Remain supporters thought that immigration was the main reason for a Leave vote. A further 36% thought that one of racism or xenophobia, Leavers being misinformed, stupidity or ignorance or lack of knowledge was the main reason.Richard_Tyndall said:
No one has said anything about the fact almost half of the country voted to Remain. We accept thst and also accept that means Brexit should reflect the whole country not just those who voted Leave. What we don't accept is your infantile attempt to smear leave supporters as xenophobes. It is not a widely held view but rather that of a sad fantasist utterly divorced from reality.AlastairMeeks said:Richard_Tyndall said:
No I don't. You are not representative of the vast majority of the population includung the vast majority of Remainers. You are simply a sad abberation.
I expect the election results in places like London are going to come as a continuing shock to the pair of you. If anything, antagonism is intensifying.CarlottaVance said:
And you don’t?AlastairMeeks said:
You move in entirely the wrong circles to judge this.0 -
.....when I chat to other youngish, London-based professionals it seems that some have written off everyone north of Watford and south of Dumfries as stupid, racist and irredeemable.
.....Instead of learning from this failure, many privileged remainers are simply doubling down on their ignorance. If you write off more than half of the population and wish further hardship on regions that are already struggling, why should those people listen to a word you say?
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/feb/14/leave-voters-london-voted-remain-eu0 -
IIRC I believe they can increase the sentence if they consider the appeal without merit.CarlottaVance said:
Couldn’t she also get a custodial sentence?TheScreamingEagles said:
I read at the time that a suspended sentence would put the kibosh on her passing the GMC's fit and proper person to practise medicine test.CarlottaVance said:I’d call this “pushing your luck”.......
https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/dec/07/lavinia-woodward-oxford-student-appeals-suspended-sentence-stabbing-boyfriend
A non custodial suspended wouldn't.
TBH - I'm struggling to remember a more brazen appeal0 -
It's a tough circle to square. If May has done it, then good on her. We need to get to Phase Two. That's when it starts getting really tough, of course ;-)rpjs said:
But will it be a deal acceptable to the DUP and the hard-line Brexiteers?Scott_P said:@GuyReuters: Ireland and UK very close to Brexit border deal, moving quickly, seems a matter of hours - Irish official @padraichalpin
0 -
This is just the familiar prolier-than-thou sentiment that you always get from certain metropolitans. It says absolutely nothing about the real politics of Brexit.CarlottaVance said:.....when I chat to other youngish, London-based professionals it seems that some have written off everyone north of Watford and south of Dumfries as stupid, racist and irredeemable.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/feb/14/leave-voters-london-voted-remain-eu0 -
Not “writing it off” - just disputing your claim that it is “representative” of the country as a whole......not getting a bit “straw mannish” are we?AlastairMeeks said:
Writing off the capital, the most economically important area of the country and an area that comprises roughly one in nine of the Parliamentary seats. Okaaaaay......CarlottaVance said:
So London is representative......okaaaaay......AlastairMeeks said:Richard_Tyndall said:
No I don't. You are not representative of the vast majority of the population includung the vast majority of Remainers. You are simply a sad abberation.
I expect the election results in places like London are going to come as a continuing shock to the pair of you. If anything, antagonism is intensifying.CarlottaVance said:
And you don’t?AlastairMeeks said:
You move in entirely the wrong circles to judge this.0 -
Good evening all.
I am doing my bit for the Grand Reconciliation. I'm marrying a Remainer. Takin' one for the team, my darlings. Of course, I'm still sticking pins in the Juncker doll and so forth.0 -
Awesome news if trueScott_P said:@GuyReuters: Ireland and UK very close to Brexit border deal, moving quickly, seems a matter of hours - Irish official @padraichalpin
0 -
I hope she survives the social death of marrying a Leaver!John_M said:Good evening all.
I am doing my bit for the Grand Reconciliation. I'm marrying a Remainer. Takin' one for the team, my darlings. Of course, I'm still sticking pins in the Juncker doll and so forth.
0 -
Ha, that's nothing. I've gone so far as to invite some Leaver friends to dinner.John_M said:Good evening all.
I am doing my bit for the Grand Reconciliation. I'm marrying a Remainer. Takin' one for the team, my darlings. Of course, I'm still sticking pins in the Juncker doll and so forth.
Congrats, BTW!0 -
Congratulations!John_M said:Good evening all.
I am doing my bit for the Grand Reconciliation. I'm marrying a Remainer. Takin' one for the team, my darlings. Of course, I'm still sticking pins in the Juncker doll and so forth.0 -
-
Congratulations.John_M said:Good evening all.
I am doing my bit for the Grand Reconciliation. I'm marrying a Remainer. Takin' one for the team, my darlings. Of course, I'm still sticking pins in the Juncker doll and so forth.0 -
Ladies and gentlemen - can I suggest a cordon sanitaire around Mr Meeks?
This thread abundantly shows that he is experiencing Brexit as some kind of terrible personal cataclysm. There is no other reasonable explanation for the sheer volume and intensity of the bile and hatred he spews, not just at 17.4 million of his compatriots, but at well-intentioned people on PB who have spent hours trying to engage with him. All he offers in return is poison.
There is nothing to be gained by engaging with him.0 -
Mazel tov. May all your troubles be little remainers.TheScreamingEagles said:
Congratulations.John_M said:Good evening all.
I am doing my bit for the Grand Reconciliation. I'm marrying a Remainer. Takin' one for the team, my darlings. Of course, I'm still sticking pins in the Juncker doll and so forth.0 -
I know it's disconcerting: I offer facts and inconvenient arguments that no Leaver has come close to engaging with. They'd prefer to run around in a tight-knit circle, shutting out intrusive problems.RoyalBlue said:Ladies and gentlemen - can I suggest a cordon sanitaire around Mr Meeks?
This thread abundantly shows that he is experiencing Brexit as some kind of terrible personal cataclysm. There is no other reasonable explanation for the sheer volume and intensity of the bile and hatred he spews, not just at 17.4 million of his compatriots, but at well-intentioned people on PB who have spent hours trying to engage with him. All he offers in return is poison.
There is nothing to be gained by engaging with him.
Meanwhile, the chances of any links being built with Remain voters continue to atrophy as they are left to form the correct conclusion that Leave campaigners have no interest in uniting the nation, simply in working on a majoritarian basis to steamroller through as extreme a Brexit as they can manage.0 -
Been out for dinner, how many percent has bitcoin swung in the past 90 mins?0
-
That's not really the case.Alistair said:
You can pay your British taxes in pounds sterling.Nigelb said:
That is true of Bitcoin, not of blockchain technologies in general:Alistair said:
Blockchain is a really boring technology....suggests it's a stupid problem to solve.rottenborough said:
I agree, Blockchain is an interesting technology. I believe central banks are looking into how they might use it.FrancisUrquhart said:
It is the dotcom bubble all over again...and then in 10 years time, things will have calmed, nonsense like Crypto Kitties will have long since disappeared and we will have the amazon's / netflix / etc of blockchain.rottenborough said:
It may not have been intended to be a pyramid scheme, but it looks like it has become one.FrancisUrquhart said:Definitely not a pyramid scheme Bitcoin has just hit $17k....
Always let the devil take the hindmost.
https://community.innoenergy.com/groups/blockchain/blog/2017/11/20/energy-efficiency-of-blockchain-technologies
Bitcoin might be today's tulip mania - certainly the last year's price action most closely matches that of the tulip bubble - but it is equally possible it could become the digital alternative to gold as a store of value...
...currencies are also mass popular delusions, in some respects.
Bitcoin has no storage capability, it's is predicated on the continual burning of energy. The less people who burn energy the less valuable it becomes.
As a means of exchange, it's piss poor - it's already too expensive to process minor transactions - but as a store of value it shares a few characteristics with gold, being expensive to mine, and having a limit on the amount that exists.
It has some disadvantages compared to gold, but arguably a few advantages too.
Should it become a consensus alternative asset / store of value (and I am by no means saying that it will), the transaction problem is easily solved by the use of derivatives - which already are coming into existence. Actual transactions will become rarer, and of much larger size, presumably between institutions (most gold never moves from its various vaults).
Whether it survives the current bubble is a matter of conjecture. It's certainly a significant asset, with a total capitalisation in the hundreds of billions, but nowhere near yet so large that it is completely divorced from economic reality, or presents a threat to the stability of financial systems.
(nb, I wouldn't currently touch it with the proverbial pikestaff myself.)0 -
Watch out for #4 ?AlastairMeeks said:0 -
I must confess that I don’t know, haven’t asked and don’t really care how my friends voted in the referendum. Politics is simply irrelevant to our friendship.Richard_Nabavi said:
Ha, that's nothing. I've gone so far as to invite some Leaver friends to dinner.John_M said:Good evening all.
I am doing my bit for the Grand Reconciliation. I'm marrying a Remainer. Takin' one for the team, my darlings. Of course, I'm still sticking pins in the Juncker doll and so forth.
Congrats, BTW!
Maybe I am unusual in this regard?
Occasionally, the subject comes up unprompted by me and people express views that I might not automatically have attributed to them, a useful reminder not to make assumptions about people. I do think it wrong to assume that the reasons why people vote one way or another have anything at all to do with any official campaign. People vote for their own reasons. Categorising them as Marxists or xenophobes or millennials or whatever is not particularly helpful I think.0 -
There's no point interacting with you any more. You are just deeply unpleasant. Gratuitously rude.AlastairMeeks said:
A seamless segue from "suck it up loser" to "why aren't you putting your shoulder to the wheel?" An A* in mindless Brexit commentary for you.MarqueeMark said:
I understand YOUR contempt. But you are a caricature of hatred. A cartoon. Why the hell should any serious political leader seek to meet you part way, let alone half way, when your position is so ridiculous?AlastairMeeks said:
I don't think you begin to understand the contempt which many Remain supporters feel towards the Leave campaign and its leaders. It's a contempt that has only strengthened since the referendum result thanks to the conduct of the government and the swivel-eyed lunatics trumpeting its efforts.MarqueeMark said:
Yourself and Scott are utterly extreme in the vitriol you pour on Brexit. Most Remainers are baffled by the decision, concerned that it could end up a terrible outcome - but prepared to wait to see what actually gets delivered. They are much more pragmatic about the process. If, ultimately, the planes keep flying, the borders stay open, they can still visit their villas in Tuscany, can still buy their favourite premier cru - hey, what was all the fuss about?AlastairMeeks said:
I long ago came to terms with the fact that Britain is leaving the EU.
You've written five paragraphs arguing from authority and not a word about how you're going to mend fences with the large number of British people who you're not negotiating with, who are completely alienated from your ambition and who think you're mad and malign. Now, how do you propose to get them on board with your shopworn idea of Brexit that is visibly wilting now that it has been exposed to sunlight for an extended period?
I am also realisitic. I don't expect the final Brexit settlement to satisfy either you or Scott. Because our negotiatiors will not be conceding to a written statement from all Leave voters that they are pig-shit thick and all acted out of spite for their fellow Brits.
Written in their own blood.
And even then, I'm sure that would just be start of your demands.
At some point some form of reconstruction is going to need to be attempted. This time the Confederacy has won the war. They are going to have to work out how to make peace with the Union's supporters. So far, not only have they not tried, they haven't even realised there's a problem.
Neither yourself nor Scott_P have made constructive proposals that show you are reconciled to leaving the EU. All you have done is sneer. Not a good look on someone who lost the argument.0 -
I very strongly disagree with this.RoyalBlue said:Ladies and gentlemen - can I suggest a cordon sanitaire around Mr Meeks?
This thread abundantly shows that he is experiencing Brexit as some kind of terrible personal cataclysm. There is no other reasonable explanation for the sheer volume and intensity of the bile and hatred he spews, not just at 17.4 million of his compatriots, but at well-intentioned people on PB who have spent hours trying to engage with him. All he offers in return is poison.
There is nothing to be gained by engaging with him.
Mr Meeks is one of the most thoughtful posters and header writers on here. He makes perfectly valid points, which should help sharpen the arguments put up in response to his.
Even if some may not like his way of expressing them, better to engage with the substance rather than, metaphorically, shoot the messenger.0 -
Sadly, when you're unable to answer direct questions you indulge in vitriolic abuse, just as you did above.MarqueeMark said:
There's no point interacting with you any more. You are just deeply unpleasant. Gratuitously rude.AlastairMeeks said:
A seamless segue from "suck it up loser" to "why aren't you putting your shoulder to the wheel?" An A* in mindless Brexit commentary for you.
More thoughtful Leavers will be considering what message they have for Remain supporters and how they propose to construct a Britain that Remain supporters wish to live in and be proud of. In due course we might hear from some of them.
Mind you, it's been 18 months and there hasn't been much activity on that front so far from any of them.0 -
No. YOU are one of the most thoughtful posters on here. You don't belittle, patronise and insult those who don't agree with you. Neither does Southam Observer.Cyclefree said:
I very strongly disagree with this.RoyalBlue said:Ladies and gentlemen - can I suggest a cordon sanitaire around Mr Meeks?
This thread abundantly shows that he is experiencing Brexit as some kind of terrible personal cataclysm. There is no other reasonable explanation for the sheer volume and intensity of the bile and hatred he spews, not just at 17.4 million of his compatriots, but at well-intentioned people on PB who have spent hours trying to engage with him. All he offers in return is poison.
There is nothing to be gained by engaging with him.
Mr Meeks is one of the most thoughtful posters and header writers on here. He makes perfectly valid points, which should help sharpen the arguments put up in response to his.
Even if some may not like his way of expressing them, better to engage with the substance rather than, metaphorically, shoot the messenger.
it just isn't necessary.0 -
Completely off topic.
Now that Daniel Day-Lewis has retired from acting, I just want to say that very many moons ago I beat him in an acting competition.
My Juliet was to die for.
He is now a three times Oscar winner and mega-superstar.
And I am here.
Sometimes life just doesn’t go to plan.
0 -
+1Cyclefree said:
I must confess that I don’t know, haven’t asked and don’t really care how my friends voted in the referendum. Politics is simply irrelevant to our friendship.Richard_Nabavi said:
Ha, that's nothing. I've gone so far as to invite some Leaver friends to dinner.John_M said:Good evening all.
I am doing my bit for the Grand Reconciliation. I'm marrying a Remainer. Takin' one for the team, my darlings. Of course, I'm still sticking pins in the Juncker doll and so forth.
Congrats, BTW!
Maybe I am unusual in this regard?
Occasionally, the subject comes up unprompted by me and people express views that I might not automatically have attributed to them, a useful reminder not to make assumptions about people. I do think it wrong to assume that the reasons why people vote one way or another have anything at all to do with any official campaign. People vote for their own reasons. Categorising them as Marxists or xenophobes or millennials or whatever is not particularly helpful I think.
Of my Facebook friends around 1% are exercised by the matter - the rest are getting on with their lives.0 -
Nice of you to wait until he retired. No point unnecessarily hurting his feelings.Cyclefree said:Completely off topic.
Now that Daniel Day-Lewis has retired from acting, I just want to say that very many moons ago I beat him in an acting competition.
My Juliet was to die for.
He is now a three times Oscar winner and mega-superstar.
And I am here.
Sometimes life just doesn’t go to plan.0 -
If less people burn energy, the same amount of bitcoin is produced. The amount of bitcoin produced is fixed. Unlike, say, the dollar, which still burns energy. And as for the "tulip bubble," which of these three things is not scarce, bitcoin, dollars and tulips?Alistair said:
You can pay your British taxes in pounds sterling.Nigelb said:
That is true of Bitcoin, not of blockchain technologies in general:Alistair said:
Blockchain is a really boring technology. It takes the simplest, non-scalable solution to a hard problem and ten declares victory.rottenborough said:
I agree, Blockchain is an interesting technology. I believe central banks are looking into how they might use it.FrancisUrquhart said:
It is the dotcom bubble all over again...and then in 10 years time, things will have calmed, nonsense like Crypto Kitties will have long since disappeared and we will have the amazon's / netflix / etc of blockchain.rottenborough said:
It may not have been intended to be a pyramid scheme, but it looks like it has become one.FrancisUrquhart said:Definitely not a pyramid scheme Bitcoin has just hit $17k....
Always let the devil take the hindmost.
Distributing a ledger to all agents then demanding they burn every increasing amount of energy to secure the ledger is a really stupid way of solving the problem. The fact that it may be the only way of solving problem suggests it's a stupid problem to solve.
https://community.innoenergy.com/groups/blockchain/blog/2017/11/20/energy-efficiency-of-blockchain-technologies
Bitcoin might be today's tulip mania - certainly the last year's price action most closely matches that of the tulip bubble - but it is equally possible it could become the digital alternative to gold as a store of value...
...currencies are also mass popular delusions, in some respects.
Bitcoin has no storage capability, it's is predicated on the continual burning of energy. The less people who burn energy the less valuable it becomes.
Bitcoin will correct because this movement is silly, but it will wipe you out.0 -
Wrong. This tedious "all Leave voters are xenophobes" schtick is not a valid thought imperfectly expressed, it is demented (and I mean that literally) bile.Cyclefree said:
I very strongly disagree with this.RoyalBlue said:Ladies and gentlemen - can I suggest a cordon sanitaire around Mr Meeks?
This thread abundantly shows that he is experiencing Brexit as some kind of terrible personal cataclysm. There is no other reasonable explanation for the sheer volume and intensity of the bile and hatred he spews, not just at 17.4 million of his compatriots, but at well-intentioned people on PB who have spent hours trying to engage with him. All he offers in return is poison.
There is nothing to be gained by engaging with him.
Mr Meeks is one of the most thoughtful posters and header writers on here. He makes perfectly valid points, which should help sharpen the arguments put up in response to his.
Even if some may not like his way of expressing them, better to engage with the substance rather than, metaphorically, shoot the messenger.0 -
I've never done any mining, even though I was interested in such distributed computing stuff since way, way back (I did well over 10 CPU years for distributed.net's RC5-64 attack). I wish I'd mined a few bitcoins back when CPU mining was viable.Andrew said:In the early days there were free raffles and the like giving out hundreds of bitcoins (in Dec 2010 they were worth about 20c each!)
Somewhere there will be a person with millions sitting forgotten on a USB stick.
Congratulations.John_M said:Good evening all.
I am doing my bit for the Grand Reconciliation. I'm marrying a Remainer. Takin' one for the team, my darlings. Of course, I'm still sticking pins in the Juncker doll and so forth.0 -
https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/938843212747329536?s=17surbiton said:
Watch out for #4 ?AlastairMeeks said:0 -
To be fair, I'd have thought that the first time aroundCarlottaVance said:0 -
So you know how Russia has been banned from the winter Olympics?
https://twitter.com/JohnJHarwood/status/938843379269537792?s=170 -
Laura has more faith in No 10's ability to learn from its mistakes than I have.CarlottaVance said:0 -
Will Arlene Foster be prepared to answer the phone on a Sunday? On other than the Lords business? Or something like that!CarlottaVance said:0 -
If less people burn energy then it will be easier to attack the network - there is an equilibrium between Bitcoins "market cap" in real money and how many people are mining it. There is a simple linear equation between energy input and minimum bitcoin value.Monkeys said:
If less people burn energy, the same amount of bitcoin is produced. The amount of bitcoin produced is fixed. Unlike, say, the dollar, which still burns energy. And as for the "tulip bubble," which of these three things is not scarce, bitcoin, dollars and tulips?Alistair said:
You can pay your British taxes in pounds sterling.Nigelb said:
That is true of Bitcoin, not of blockchain technologies in general:Alistair said:
Blockchain is a really boring technology. It takes the simplest, non-scalable solution to a hard problem and ten declares victory.rottenborough said:
I agree, Blockchain is an interesting technology. I believe central banks are looking into how they might use it.FrancisUrquhart said:
It is the dotcom bubble all over again...and then in 10 years time, things will have calmed, nonsense like Crypto Kitties will have long since disappeared and we will have the amazon's / netflix / etc of blockchain.rottenborough said:
It may not have been intended to be a pyramid scheme, but it looks like it has become one.FrancisUrquhart said:Definitely not a pyramid scheme Bitcoin has just hit $17k....
Always let the devil take the hindmost.
Distributing a ledger to all agents then demanding they burn every increasing amount of energy to secure the ledger is a really stupid way of solving the problem. The fact that it may be the only way of solving problem suggests it's a stupid problem to solve.
https://community.innoenergy.com/groups/blockchain/blog/2017/11/20/energy-efficiency-of-blockchain-technologies
Bitcoin might be today's tulip mania - certainly the last year's price action most closely matches that of the tulip bubble - but it is equally possible it could become the digital alternative to gold as a store of value...
...currencies are also mass popular delusions, in some respects.
Bitcoin has no storage capability, it's is predicated on the continual burning of energy. The less people who burn energy the less valuable it becomes.
Bitcoin will correct because this movement is silly, but it will wipe you out.0 -
The problem is that if you are a political activist and actually knock on doors you will soon conclude that Mr Meeks is right. Most conversations with Brexit supporters stating with 'I am not a racist, but...' followed by a blatantly racist comment.Ishmael_Z said:
Wrong. This tedious "all Leave voters are xenophobes" schtick is not a valid thought imperfectly expressed, it is demented (and I mean that literally) bile.Cyclefree said:
I very strongly disagree with this.RoyalBlue said:Ladies and gentlemen - can I suggest a cordon sanitaire around Mr Meeks?
This thread abundantly shows that he is experiencing Brexit as some kind of terrible personal cataclysm. There is no other reasonable explanation for the sheer volume and intensity of the bile and hatred he spews, not just at 17.4 million of his compatriots, but at well-intentioned people on PB who have spent hours trying to engage with him. All he offers in return is poison.
There is nothing to be gained by engaging with him.
Mr Meeks is one of the most thoughtful posters and header writers on here. He makes perfectly valid points, which should help sharpen the arguments put up in response to his.
Even if some may not like his way of expressing them, better to engage with the substance rather than, metaphorically, shoot the messenger.0 -
Mr Meeks can be insightful but he is also very deluded at times. He is desperate to find some overriding moral turpitude which will justify hatred of Leavers as a whole. He uses it instead of having to face the fact that the Brexit vote represented a rejection of his own elitist pan- European views.Cyclefree said:
I very strongly disagree with this.RoyalBlue said:Ladies and gentlemen - can I suggest a cordon sanitaire around Mr Meeks?
This thread abundantly shows that he is experiencing Brexit as some kind of terrible personal cataclysm. There is no other reasonable explanation for the sheer volume and intensity of the bile and hatred he spews, not just at 17.4 million of his compatriots, but at well-intentioned people on PB who have spent hours trying to engage with him. All he offers in return is poison.
There is nothing to be gained by engaging with him.
Mr Meeks is one of the most thoughtful posters and header writers on here. He makes perfectly valid points, which should help sharpen the arguments put up in response to his.
Even if some may not like his way of expressing them, better to engage with the substance rather than, metaphorically, shoot the messenger.0 -
If less people mine it, yes, but not if they use less energy to do so. In fact, if they use less energy to get the same hashrate, it's more profitable for them.Alistair said:
If less people burn energy then it will be easier to attack the network - there is an equilibrium between Bitcoins "market cap" in real money and how many people are mining it. There is a simple linear equation between energy input and minimum bitcoin value.Monkeys said:
If less people burn energy, the same amount of bitcoin is produced. The amount of bitcoin produced is fixed. Unlike, say, the dollar, which still burns energy. And as for the "tulip bubble," which of these three things is not scarce, bitcoin, dollars and tulips?Alistair said:
You can pay your British taxes in pounds sterling.Nigelb said:
That is true of Bitcoin, not of blockchain technologies in general:Alistair said:
Blockchain is a really boring technology. It takes the simplest, non-scalable solution to a hard problem and ten declares victory.rottenborough said:
I agree, Blockchain is an interesting technology. I believe central banks are looking into how they might use it.FrancisUrquhart said:
It is the dotcom bubble all over again...and then in 10 years time, things will have calmed, nonsense like Crypto Kitties will have long since disappeared and we will have the amazon's / netflix / etc of blockchain.rottenborough said:
It may not have been intended to be a pyramid scheme, but it looks like it has become one.FrancisUrquhart said:Definitely not a pyramid scheme Bitcoin has just hit $17k....
Always let the devil take the hindmost.
Distributing a ledger to all agents then demanding they burn every increasing amount of energy to secure the ledger is a really stupid way of solving the problem. The fact that it may be the only way of solving problem suggests it's a stupid problem to solve.
https://community.innoenergy.com/groups/blockchain/blog/2017/11/20/energy-efficiency-of-blockchain-technologies
Bitcoin might be today's tulip mania - certainly the last year's price action most closely matches that of the tulip bubble - but it is equally possible it could become the digital alternative to gold as a store of value...
...currencies are also mass popular delusions, in some respects.
Bitcoin has no storage capability, it's is predicated on the continual burning of energy. The less people who burn energy the less valuable it becomes.
Bitcoin will correct because this movement is silly, but it will wipe you out.0 -
I don’t agree that all Leavers are xenophobes but I do know some people who are absolutely incensed at aspects of the Leave campaign, specifically at what they see as the “us”and “them” aspect of it, the uncertainty which many EU nationals feel and the ingratitude to people who came here in good faith to work hard and contribute to this country. They also feel that some aspects of the campaign has given licence to some to express racist feelings.Ishmael_Z said:
Wrong. This tedious "all Leave voters are xenophobes" schtick is not a valid thought imperfectly expressed, it is demented (and I mean that literally) bile.Cyclefree said:
I very strongly disagree with this.RoyalBlue said:Ladies and gentlemen - can I suggest a cordon sanitaire around Mr Meeks?
This thread abundantly shows that he is experiencing Brexit as some kind of terrible personal cataclysm. There is no other reasonable explanation for the sheer volume and intensity of the bile and hatred he spews, not just at 17.4 million of his compatriots, but at well-intentioned people on PB who have spent hours trying to engage with him. All he offers in return is poison.
There is nothing to be gained by engaging with him.
Mr Meeks is one of the most thoughtful posters and header writers on here. He makes perfectly valid points, which should help sharpen the arguments put up in response to his.
Even if some may not like his way of expressing them, better to engage with the substance rather than, metaphorically, shoot the messenger.
None of this is good. We should seek to heal this division. Not exacerbate it. I think this is the point Mr Meeks is making. Now I have some reservations and differences with him on the conclusions he draws. But he is entitled to make the point.
The fact that people do feel like this matters and should be taken into account not dismissed in exactly the same way as should the views of those who feel that there should be controls on immigration.
Sauce for the goose, etc.
0 -
If they have got a deal so quickly, it makes it look like the DUP was just playing games.0
-
Wrong again. What you continually fail to recognise is that the person calling the shots has her own - and in my view mistaken - idea of what Leave voters voted for. In fact her views are quite similar to yours and are equally wrong.AlastairMeeks said:
Sadly, when you're unable to answer direct questions you indulge in vitriolic abuse, just as you did above.MarqueeMark said:
There's no point interacting with you any more. You are just deeply unpleasant. Gratuitously rude.AlastairMeeks said:
A seamless segue from "suck it up loser" to "why aren't you putting your shoulder to the wheel?" An A* in mindless Brexit commentary for you.
More thoughtful Leavers will be considering what message they have for Remain supporters and how they propose to construct a Britain that Remain supporters wish to live in and be proud of. In due course we might hear from some of them.
Mind you, it's been 18 months and there hasn't been much activity on that front so far from any of them.
If people like me and many other PB leavers had been running this show we would have recognised that we had to speak for the whole country and not just a small subset of the Leave campaign and we would have built those bridges that would have allowed us to negotiate a far more realistic Brexit strategy. It is having an incompetent and uninformed Remain supporter in charge that is causing do many problems.0 -
You are very charitable.Cyclefree said:
I don’t agree that all Leavers are xenophobes but I do know some people who are absolutely incensed at aspects of the Leave campaign, specifically at what they see as the “us”and “them” aspect of it, the uncertainty which many EU nationals feel and the ingratitude to people who came here in good faith to work hard and contribute to this country. They also feel that some aspects of the campaign has given licence to some to express racist feelings.Ishmael_Z said:
Wrong. This tedious "all Leave voters are xenophobes" schtick is not a valid thought imperfectly expressed, it is demented (and I mean that literally) bile.Cyclefree said:
I very strongly disagree with this.RoyalBlue said:Ladies and gentlemen - can I suggest a cordon sanitaire around Mr Meeks?
This thread abundantly shows that he is experiencing Brexit as some kind of terrible personal cataclysm. There is no other reasonable explanation for the sheer volume and intensity of the bile and hatred he spews, not just at 17.4 million of his compatriots, but at well-intentioned people on PB who have spent hours trying to engage with him. All he offers in return is poison.
There is nothing to be gained by engaging with him.
Mr Meeks is one of the most thoughtful posters and header writers on here. He makes perfectly valid points, which should help sharpen the arguments put up in response to his.
Even if some may not like his way of expressing them, better to engage with the substance rather than, metaphorically, shoot the messenger.
None of this is good. We should seek to heal this division. Not exacerbate it. I think this is the point Mr Meeks is making. Now I have some reservations and differences with him on the conclusions he draws. But he is entitled to make the point.
The fact that people do feel like this matters and should be taken into account not dismissed in exactly the same way as should the views of those who feel that there should be controls on immigration.
Sauce for the goose, etc.0 -
I am an activist. I do knock on doors and you are are wrongFenman said:
The problem is that if you are a political activist and actually knock on doors you will soon conclude that Mr Meeks is right. Most conversations with Brexit supporters stating with 'I am not a racist, but...' followed by a blatantly racist comment.Ishmael_Z said:
Wrong. This tedious "all Leave voters are xenophobes" schtick is not a valid thought imperfectly expressed, it is demented (and I mean that literally) bile.Cyclefree said:
I very strongly disagree with this.RoyalBlue said:Ladies and gentlemen - can I suggest a cordon sanitaire around Mr Meeks?
This thread abundantly shows that he is experiencing Brexit as some kind of terrible personal cataclysm. There is no other reasonable explanation for the sheer volume and intensity of the bile and hatred he spews, not just at 17.4 million of his compatriots, but at well-intentioned people on PB who have spent hours trying to engage with him. All he offers in return is poison.
There is nothing to be gained by engaging with him.
Mr Meeks is one of the most thoughtful posters and header writers on here. He makes perfectly valid points, which should help sharpen the arguments put up in response to his.
Even if some may not like his way of expressing them, better to engage with the substance rather than, metaphorically, shoot the messenger.0 -
It doesn't matter about transactions. Bitcoin requires the permanent burning of energy to maintain it. Forever.Nigelb said:
That's not really the case.Alistair said:
You can pay your British taxes in pounds sterling.Nigelb said:
That is true of Bitcoin, not of blockchain technologies in general:Alistair said:
Blockchain is a really boring technology....suggests it's a stupid problem to solve.rottenborough said:
I agree, Blockchain is an interesting technology. I believe central banks are looking into how they might use it.FrancisUrquhart said:
It is the dotcom bubble all over again...and then in 10 years time, things will have calmed, nonsense like Crypto Kitties will have long since disappeared and we will have the amazon's / netflix / etc of blockchain.rottenborough said:
It may not have been intended to be a pyramid scheme, but it looks like it has become one.FrancisUrquhart said:Definitely not a pyramid scheme Bitcoin has just hit $17k....
Always let the devil take the hindmost.
https://community.innoenergy.com/groups/blockchain/blog/2017/11/20/energy-efficiency-of-blockchain-technologies
Bitcoin might be today's tulip mania - certainly the last year's price action most closely matches that of the tulip bubble - but it is equally possible it could become the digital alternative to gold as a store of value...
...currencies are also mass popular delusions, in some respects.
Bitcoin has no storage capability, it's is predicated on the continual burning of energy. The less people who burn energy the less valuable it becomes.
As a means of exchange, it's piss poor - it's already too expensive to process minor transactions - but as a store of value it shares a few characteristics with gold, being expensive to mine, and having a limit on the amount that exists.
It has some disadvantages compared to gold, but arguably a few advantages too.
Should it become a consensus alternative asset / store of value (and I am by no means saying that it will), the transaction problem is easily solved by the use of derivatives - which already are coming into existence. Actual transactions will become rarer, and of much larger size, presumably between institutions (most gold never moves from its various vaults).
If the amount of has power decreases (i.e. less energy is burnt to maintain the network) but the BTC/USD price stays the same then it would become cost effective to buy mining hardware and increase the energy burn to get mining rewards/transaction fees.
Likewise if energy burn goes too low then it becomes cost effective to attack the network.0 -
New thread0
-
NEW THREAD
0 -
The referendum has completely toxified the political discourse and has made normal exchanges impossible. It has polarised people in to two tribes. So even if, as I have long suspected, people actually agree that the best outcome is norway with some fudge on freedom of movement, they can't actually be seen to be agreeing with each other, and find some trivial points to argue about ad infinitum, which gets incredibly tedious.AlastairMeeks said:
I know it's disconcerting: I offer facts and inconvenient arguments that no Leaver has come close to engaging with. They'd prefer to run around in a tight-knit circle, shutting out intrusive problems.RoyalBlue said:Ladies and gentlemen - can I suggest a cordon sanitaire around Mr Meeks?
This thread abundantly shows that he is experiencing Brexit as some kind of terrible personal cataclysm. There is no other reasonable explanation for the sheer volume and intensity of the bile and hatred he spews, not just at 17.4 million of his compatriots, but at well-intentioned people on PB who have spent hours trying to engage with him. All he offers in return is poison.
There is nothing to be gained by engaging with him.
Meanwhile, the chances of any links being built with Remain voters continue to atrophy as they are left to form the correct conclusion that Leave campaigners have no interest in uniting the nation, simply in working on a majoritarian basis to steamroller through as extreme a Brexit as they can manage.
Personally, I am gutted about Brexit and it has transformed my life in an entirely negative way, but I can't be bothered to argue with people for the sake of it. On balance, the best outcome is still that the tories own this frankenstein of their own creation. The worst possible outcome is that the whole UKIP grievance machine, which has done so much damage to us, gets cranked up again.
My hunch is that Brexit will be a disaster, Ireland will reunify, and Scotland will become independent. And an England reinvented by a new generation will rejoin a federal Europe. I'm still young though, and I've no idea if I will live to see this. Its all just a hunch though. I have no idea.
0 -
Aw *shucks*. Thank you all. One of the sadder aspects of the EUref fallout is that PB has lost much of its lustre; the continual rancour, while understandable, is not particularly attractive; we seem to spend a good deal of time talking past each other. I also missed Ms Plato, another contribution to my posting hiatus.Cyclefree said:
Congratulations!John_M said:Good evening all.
I am doing my bit for the Grand Reconciliation. I'm marrying a Remainer. Takin' one for the team, my darlings. Of course, I'm still sticking pins in the Juncker doll and so forth.
We - well I - have missed you.
However, I've been here on and off since 2006, so I shall enter the lists once more
. My view is that the phony war is almost over. Brexit will now clarify (or congeal, depending on your personal view!). No more Brexit means Brexit, which will come as a welcome relief. 0 -
If you were to google my surname and south sea bubble you'll find some fascinating research on our trading patterns at the time. Still spending the proceedsRichard_Nabavi said:It's fascinating being able to watch the Dutch 1636-7 tulip bubble being re-enacted in real time at accelerated speed.
Does anyone know how much actual trading there is in the current mania?
0 -
Please don't mention "that chick".Ishmael_Z said:You should all embroider a big red L for Leaver on the backs of your shirts, like the chick in that Hawthorne novel, and stand on street corners with a placard reading "Kick my arse, I'm a xenophobe."
This is just bonkers to the point of surrealism. Looking at what is going on in Hungary it's as if an even loopier version of Unity Mitford had spent her weekends in Berlin hangin' with Adolf and the gang, and her weeks telling her sister Diana that that Mosley chap had some pretty unsavoury racial theories.
She's being sewing something for the last 20 pages and I'm losing the will to live. She sees lots of things. But not virgin bridal gowns. But that would to suggest forgiveness. Or something.0 -
From the poster who wrote thisMarqueeMark said:There's no point interacting with you any more. You are just deeply unpleasant. Gratuitously rude.
Fuck off. Please. Just fuck off.
0 -
Why would there be a third option of staying in the EU? That was decided in the 2016 referendum.
We all know that the whole second referendum thing is a device by Remoaners who dont accept the democratic decision in 2016. The very people who dont think there should have been a referendum in the first place because it is none of the British people's business whether they the UK should be a sovereign country. They just want to continue with their project of making Britain part of a United States of Europe.
Things will move quickly in the next week. The sooner we are out of the EU the better.
0
