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edited December 2017 in General

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  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,963
    First. Like the DUP.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,384
    Should I go back to my constituency and prepare for government?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    https://twitter.com/edinburghpaper/status/938092976911372289
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,546
    German authorities are preparing a law that will force device manufacturers to include backdoors within their products that law enforcement agencies could use at their discretion for legal investigations. The law would target all modern devices, such as cars, phones, computers, IoT products, and more.

    https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/government/germany-preparing-law-for-backdoors-in-any-type-of-modern-device/
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,963
    Bonkers. As OGH has pointed out Leadsom is now 2nd fav to be Tory leader, after JRM.

    Could this madness get any madder?

    I may need to upgrade from popcorn to whiskey.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,707
    Let's never speak of that other thread again... :o
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,123
    Can anyone seriously blame the DUP? Their whole ethos is to keep NI in the Union.

    As a religious kind of sort, they must think that the 2017 GE was somehow some kind of divine act to protect the union.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,963
    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/edinburghpaper/status/938092976911372289

    Clearly Begbie was not interviewed.
  • Chris_AChris_A Posts: 1,237
    “They have to solve this thing 100% by themselves but unfortunately it looks impossible. We really don’t want to the negotiations to fall down, we don’t want the British government to fall apart, but what can we do?”

    The EU were going to be falling over themselves to do a deal with us and it was all going to be so easy, wasn't it Brexiteers? Another one of your damned lies.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,963
    SandyRentool said:

    Should I go back to my constituency and prepare for government?

    Certainly feels like May government is on the edge over next few days.
  • JonnyJimmyJonnyJimmy Posts: 2,548
    edited December 2017
    Brilliant as usual from @marf_the_cartoonist

    Only the four fast bowlers one that @Scott_P posted earlier has been as close to as good on this on Brexit lately. Well done Marf!
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,123
    rottenborough said:

    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/edinburghpaper/status/938092976911372289

    Clearly Begbie was not interviewed.
    T1 was filmed ion Glasgow where Begsbie would thrive.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,707
    Chris_A said:

    “They have to solve this thing 100% by themselves but unfortunately it looks impossible. We really don’t want to the negotiations to fall down, we don’t want the British government to fall apart, but what can we do?”

    The EU were going to be falling over themselves to do a deal with us and it was all going to be so easy, wasn't it Brexiteers? Another one of your damned lies.

    Doesn’t sound like the EU are getting in the way of a deal.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,963
    tyson said:

    rottenborough said:

    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/edinburghpaper/status/938092976911372289

    Clearly Begbie was not interviewed.
    T1 was filmed ion Glasgow where Begsbie would thrive.
    I never knew that. The book is set in Edinburgh though?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,963
    RobD said:

    Chris_A said:

    “They have to solve this thing 100% by themselves but unfortunately it looks impossible. We really don’t want to the negotiations to fall down, we don’t want the British government to fall apart, but what can we do?”

    The EU were going to be falling over themselves to do a deal with us and it was all going to be so easy, wasn't it Brexiteers? Another one of your damned lies.

    Doesn’t sound like the EU are getting in the way of a deal.
    Brexiteers can think of six impossible things before breakfast, and the NI border was one of them.

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,546
    edited December 2017
    https://twitter.com/btsportcricket/status/937992180295114752
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    He's the other other side of the Alabama election - 2012 Missouri of the Todd Akin 'Legitimate Rape' incident.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senate_election_in_Missouri,_2012#Polling_2

    The highest the Dem polled was 51 points. She won with 54.5% of the vote. The RCP polling average was a 6 point win for the Dem, whe won by 15.5% as Akin under performed the polling
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,707
    rottenborough said:

    RobD said:

    Chris_A said:

    “They have to solve this thing 100% by themselves but unfortunately it looks impossible. We really don’t want to the negotiations to fall down, we don’t want the British government to fall apart, but what can we do?”

    The EU were going to be falling over themselves to do a deal with us and it was all going to be so easy, wasn't it Brexiteers? Another one of your damned lies.

    Doesn’t sound like the EU are getting in the way of a deal.
    Brexiteers can think of six impossible things before breakfast, and the NI border was one of them.

    Scenario B from Peston’s Facebook message seemed perfectly reasonable.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,123
    rottenborough said:

    SandyRentool said:

    Should I go back to my constituency and prepare for government?

    Certainly feels like May government is on the edge over next few days.
    I think if the Tory sane brigade didn't think they were handing over the keys to a bunch of loonies, they would have already had fallen.

    Corbyn will hold the coalition of chaos, desperation and profound hatred together until it's final, horrifying death throes in 2022. And then what?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    https://twitter.com/JeffFlake/status/938160754490052609
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    tyson said:

    rottenborough said:

    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/edinburghpaper/status/938092976911372289

    Clearly Begbie was not interviewed.
    T1 was filmed ion Glasgow where Begsbie would thrive.
    It was filmed there in the limited sense that it was, er, filmed there. It is fictionally set in Edinburgh (and London) and it is a key theme of both the book and the film that Edinburgh ain't Glasgow.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    RobD said:

    Chris_A said:

    “They have to solve this thing 100% by themselves but unfortunately it looks impossible. We really don’t want to the negotiations to fall down, we don’t want the British government to fall apart, but what can we do?”

    The EU were going to be falling over themselves to do a deal with us and it was all going to be so easy, wasn't it Brexiteers? Another one of your damned lies.

    Doesn’t sound like the EU are getting in the way of a deal.
    The last Irish prime minister before Leo Varadkar has advised that Ireland’s rhetoric regarding Brexit needs to be toned down.

    In a significant intervention on Tuesday evening, Enda Kenny warned about heated language in the delicate negotiations involving Dublin, London, Belfast and Brussels.

    Kenny, who was taoiseach at the time of the Brexit referendum, said:

    It is important that the work being undertaken by the foreign minister Simon Coveney and Taoiseach Leo Varadkar is focussed on having an agreement on what will have to be sensitive language in order to achieve the outcome what we want here.

    Coveney later denied he was raising the temperature of the debate with the British and the unionists.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2017/dec/05/theresa-may-struggles-to-rescue-brexit-deal-as-dublin-says-it-wont-back-down-politics-live
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,543
    Alistair said:

    He's the other other side of the Alabama election - 2012 Missouri of the Todd Akin 'Legitimate Rape' incident.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senate_election_in_Missouri,_2012#Polling_2

    The highest the Dem polled was 51 points. She won with 54.5% of the vote. The RCP polling average was a 6 point win for the Dem, whe won by 15.5% as Akin under performed the polling

    Alabama is somewhat different to Missouri in 2012. It's not just very red, but has few swing voters.
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/edinburghpaper/status/938092976911372289

    Is that where you live Scott ?
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 26,052
    CarlottaVance said:

    RobD said:

    Chris_A said:

    “They have to solve this thing 100% by themselves but unfortunately it looks impossible. We really don’t want to the negotiations to fall down, we don’t want the British government to fall apart, but what can we do?”

    The EU were going to be falling over themselves to do a deal with us and it was all going to be so easy, wasn't it Brexiteers? Another one of your damned lies.

    Doesn’t sound like the EU are getting in the way of a deal.
    The last Irish prime minister before Leo Varadkar has advised that Ireland’s rhetoric regarding Brexit needs to be toned down.

    In a significant intervention on Tuesday evening, Enda Kenny warned about heated language in the delicate negotiations involving Dublin, London, Belfast and Brussels.

    Kenny, who was taoiseach at the time of the Brexit referendum, said:

    It is important that the work being undertaken by the foreign minister Simon Coveney and Taoiseach Leo Varadkar is focussed on having an agreement on what will have to be sensitive language in order to achieve the outcome what we want here.

    Coveney later denied he was raising the temperature of the debate with the British and the unionists.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2017/dec/05/theresa-may-struggles-to-rescue-brexit-deal-as-dublin-says-it-wont-back-down-politics-live
    Coveney was an MEP, does what hes told
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    Alanbrooke said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    RobD said:

    Chris_A said:

    “They have to solve this thing 100% by themselves but unfortunately it looks impossible. We really don’t want to the negotiations to fall down, we don’t want the British government to fall apart, but what can we do?”

    The EU were going to be falling over themselves to do a deal with us and it was all going to be so easy, wasn't it Brexiteers? Another one of your damned lies.

    Doesn’t sound like the EU are getting in the way of a deal.
    The last Irish prime minister before Leo Varadkar has advised that Ireland’s rhetoric regarding Brexit needs to be toned down.

    In a significant intervention on Tuesday evening, Enda Kenny warned about heated language in the delicate negotiations involving Dublin, London, Belfast and Brussels.

    Kenny, who was taoiseach at the time of the Brexit referendum, said:

    It is important that the work being undertaken by the foreign minister Simon Coveney and Taoiseach Leo Varadkar is focussed on having an agreement on what will have to be sensitive language in order to achieve the outcome what we want here.

    Coveney later denied he was raising the temperature of the debate with the British and the unionists.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2017/dec/05/theresa-may-struggles-to-rescue-brexit-deal-as-dublin-says-it-wont-back-down-politics-live
    Coveney was an MEP, does what hes told
    Does his pension rely on him “promoting the EU”?
  • JonnyJimmyJonnyJimmy Posts: 2,548
    I'm amazed that after days noone's answered.. We do have some people on here with legal expertise, don't we?

    If there were a current court case into an alleged sexual assault by Green, would the evidence presented by Quick and Lewis be admissible? Or would the judge insist that it be disregarded? Or something else?

    Surely one of you brains knows?
  • archer101auarcher101au Posts: 1,612
    RobD said:

    rottenborough said:

    RobD said:

    Chris_A said:

    “They have to solve this thing 100% by themselves but unfortunately it looks impossible. We really don’t want to the negotiations to fall down, we don’t want the British government to fall apart, but what can we do?”

    The EU were going to be falling over themselves to do a deal with us and it was all going to be so easy, wasn't it Brexiteers? Another one of your damned lies.

    Doesn’t sound like the EU are getting in the way of a deal.
    Brexiteers can think of six impossible things before breakfast, and the NI border was one of them.

    Scenario B from Peston’s Facebook message seemed perfectly reasonable.
    Quite. And the reason we know this is that Barnier told May before the Florence speech that he accepted that the NI chapter was closed and the remaining issued would need to be addressed in Stage 2. Gee, the EU lied, what a surprise. Not much of a surprise either that May fell for it.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 26,052
    CarlottaVance said:

    Alanbrooke said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    RobD said:

    Chris_A said:

    “They have to solve this thing 100% by themselves but unfortunately it looks impossible. We really don’t want to the negotiations to fall down, we don’t want the British government to fall apart, but what can we do?”

    The EU were going to be falling over themselves to do a deal with us and it was all going to be so easy, wasn't it Brexiteers? Another one of your damned lies.

    Doesn’t sound like the EU are getting in the way of a deal.
    The last Irish prime minister before Leo Varadkar has advised that Ireland’s rhetoric regarding Brexit needs to be toned down.

    In a significant intervention on Tuesday evening, Enda Kenny warned about heated language in the delicate negotiations involving Dublin, London, Belfast and Brussels.

    Kenny, who was taoiseach at the time of the Brexit referendum, said:

    It is important that the work being undertaken by the foreign minister Simon Coveney and Taoiseach Leo Varadkar is focussed on having an agreement on what will have to be sensitive language in order to achieve the outcome what we want here.

    Coveney later denied he was raising the temperature of the debate with the British and the unionists.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2017/dec/05/theresa-may-struggles-to-rescue-brexit-deal-as-dublin-says-it-wont-back-down-politics-live
    Coveney was an MEP, does what hes told
    Does his pension rely on him “promoting the EU”?
    yes

    he may get a bonus too
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Alanbrooke said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Alanbrooke said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    RobD said:

    Chris_A said:

    “They have to solve this thing 100% by themselves but unfortunately it looks impossible. We really don’t want to the negotiations to fall down, we don’t want the British government to fall apart, but what can we do?”

    The EU were going to be falling over themselves to do a deal with us and it was all going to be so easy, wasn't it Brexiteers? Another one of your damned lies.

    Doesn’t sound like the EU are getting in the way of a deal.
    The last Irish prime minister before Leo Varadkar has advised that Ireland’s rhetoric regarding Brexit needs to be toned down.

    In a significant intervention on Tuesday evening, Enda Kenny warned about heated language in the delicate negotiations involving Dublin, London, Belfast and Brussels.

    Kenny, who was taoiseach at the time of the Brexit referendum, said:

    It is important that the work being undertaken by the foreign minister Simon Coveney and Taoiseach Leo Varadkar is focussed on having an agreement on what will have to be sensitive language in order to achieve the outcome what we want here.

    Coveney later denied he was raising the temperature of the debate with the British and the unionists.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2017/dec/05/theresa-may-struggles-to-rescue-brexit-deal-as-dublin-says-it-wont-back-down-politics-live
    Coveney was an MEP, does what hes told
    Does his pension rely on him “promoting the EU”?
    yes

    he may get a bonus too
    You can tell when things are going badly when paranoia sets in.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,384
    JonnyJimmy said:

    I'm amazed that after days noone's answered.. We do have some people on here with legal expertise, don't we?

    If there were a current court case into an alleged sexual assault by Green, would the evidence presented by Quick and Lewis be admissible? Or would the judge insist that it be disregarded? Or something else?

    Surely one of you brains knows?

    How would that evidence be relevant to the case?
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 26,052
    AlastairMeeks said:

    Alanbrooke said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Alanbrooke said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    RobD said:

    Chris_A said:

    “They have to solve this thing 100% by themselves but unfortunately it looks impossible. We really don’t want to the negotiations to fall down, we don’t want the British government to fall apart, but what can we do?”

    The EU were going to be falling over themselves to do a deal with us and it was all going to be so easy, wasn't it Brexiteers? Another one of your damned lies.

    Doesn’t sound like the EU are getting in the way of a deal.
    The last Irish prime minister before Leo Varadkar has advised that Ireland’s rhetoric regarding Brexit needs to be toned down.

    In a significant intervention on Tuesday evening, Enda Kenny warned about heated language in the delicate negotiations involving Dublin, London, Belfast and Brussels.

    Kenny, who was taoiseach at the time of the Brexit referendum, said:

    It is important that the work being undertaken by the foreign minister Simon Coveney and Taoiseach Leo Varadkar is focussed on having an agreement on what will have to be sensitive language in order to achieve the outcome what we want here.

    Coveney later denied he was raising the temperature of the debate with the British and the unionists.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2017/dec/05/theresa-may-struggles-to-rescue-brexit-deal-as-dublin-says-it-wont-back-down-politics-live
    Coveney was an MEP, does what hes told
    Does his pension rely on him “promoting the EU”?
    yes

    he may get a bonus too
    You can tell when things are going badly when paranoia sets in.
    indeed

    some idiots might take things they read on the intenet as true statements
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    Guardian summary on the state of play:

    https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2017/dec/05/uk-brexit-team-is-walking-a-tightrope-to-reach-first-phase-deal
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,613
    rottenborough said:

    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/edinburghpaper/status/938092976911372289

    Clearly Begbie was not interviewed.
    Clearly no-one from Edinburgh was interviewed. I adore Edinburgh, and it's people have many wonderful qualities, but that one is not foremost.
  • JonnyJimmyJonnyJimmy Posts: 2,548
    SandyRentool said:

    JonnyJimmy said:

    I'm amazed that after days noone's answered.. We do have some people on here with legal expertise, don't we?

    If there were a current court case into an alleged sexual assault by Green, would the evidence presented by Quick and Lewis be admissible? Or would the judge insist that it be disregarded? Or something else?

    Surely one of you brains knows?

    How would that evidence be relevant to the case?
    Apparently it's relevant to his not very smutty text message scandal. Which is why the bent cops released it in the public interest.

    So you tell me.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    JonnyJimmy said:

    I'm amazed that after days noone's answered.. We do have some people on here with legal expertise, don't we?

    If there were a current court case into an alleged sexual assault by Green, would the evidence presented by Quick and Lewis be admissible? Or would the judge insist that it be disregarded? Or something else?

    Surely one of you brains knows?

    You sound a bit aggressive about it. The short answer is that it would be irrelevant, because watching pornography does not afaik constitute evidence of a propensity to sexually assault people. But the mere fact of Quick and Lewis being in breach of alleged duties of confidentiality in now disclosing this material would not make their evidence in court on these matters inadmissible, as far as I can see.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    Still with us:

    https://mobile.twitter.com/TheSun/status/938170123155857409/photo/1
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,795
    Sean_F said:

    Alistair said:

    He's the other other side of the Alabama election - 2012 Missouri of the Todd Akin 'Legitimate Rape' incident.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senate_election_in_Missouri,_2012#Polling_2

    The highest the Dem polled was 51 points. She won with 54.5% of the vote. The RCP polling average was a 6 point win for the Dem, whe won by 15.5% as Akin under performed the polling

    Alabama is somewhat different to Missouri in 2012. It's not just very red, but has few swing voters.
    Yes, that was another point made in the excellent 538 coverage of the election. Alabama is red in a way few other GOP strongholds are. The voters simply dpn't swing.

    We are in unknown territory here though, and flying blind on account of the lack of reliable polls. The result could be anything. At 3/1, I'm a buyer of blues though, to fairly modest stakes.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,546
    edited December 2017
    CarlottaVance said:

    Still with us:

    https://mobile.twitter.com/TheSun/status/938170123155857409/photo/1

    Story here,

    Two men charged as cops ‘foil plan to launch suicide and knife attack on No10’

    Cops claim he was plotting a bomb assault on the Downing Street security gates with an explosive device hidden in a bag.

    Rahman then allegedly planned to storm inside Number Ten, wearing a suicide vest and brandishing pepper spray and a knife, in a bid to kill Mrs May.

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5075297/cops-foil-theresa-may-downing-street-terror-attack/
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    edited December 2017


    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/938171387054878720?s=17
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 28,257
    Peter_the_Punter said:

    Sean_F said:

    Alistair said:

    He's the other other side of the Alabama election - 2012 Missouri of the Todd Akin 'Legitimate Rape' incident.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senate_election_in_Missouri,_2012#Polling_2

    The highest the Dem polled was 51 points. She won with 54.5% of the vote. The RCP polling average was a 6 point win for the Dem, whe won by 15.5% as Akin under performed the polling

    Alabama is somewhat different to Missouri in 2012. It's not just very red, but has few swing voters.
    Yes, that was another point made in the excellent 538 coverage of the election. Alabama is red in a way few other GOP strongholds are. The voters simply dpn't swing.

    We are in unknown territory here though, and flying blind on account of the lack of reliable polls. The result could be anything. At 3/1, I'm a buyer of blues though, to fairly modest stakes.
    They might not swing but do they always turn out ?
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,123
    Luckyguy1983 said:

    rottenborough said:

    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/edinburghpaper/status/938092976911372289

    Clearly Begbie was not interviewed.
    Clearly no-one from Edinburgh was interviewed. I adore Edinburgh, and it's people have many wonderful qualities, but that one is not foremost.
    Edinburgh is the best place on the planet that I have seen yet....Marchmont is where I'd like to live....unfortunately my wife cannot do dark evenings in winter......

  • JonnyJimmyJonnyJimmy Posts: 2,548
    Ishmael_Z said:

    JonnyJimmy said:

    I'm amazed that after days noone's answered.. We do have some people on here with legal expertise, don't we?

    If there were a current court case into an alleged sexual assault by Green, would the evidence presented by Quick and Lewis be admissible? Or would the judge insist that it be disregarded? Or something else?

    Surely one of you brains knows?

    You sound a bit aggressive about it. The short answer is that it would be irrelevant, because watching pornography does not afaik constitute evidence of a propensity to sexually assault people. But the mere fact of Quick and Lewis being in breach of alleged duties of confidentiality in now disclosing this material would not make their evidence in court on these matters inadmissible, as far as I can see.
    Are you sure? The magistrate I work with thinks otherwise, but I'd really like to know what our legal eagles think. None of them have said though.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,795
    another_richard said:

    Peter_the_Punter said:

    Sean_F said:

    Alistair said:

    He's the other other side of the Alabama election - 2012 Missouri of the Todd Akin 'Legitimate Rape' incident.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senate_election_in_Missouri,_2012#Polling_2

    The highest the Dem polled was 51 points. She won with 54.5% of the vote. The RCP polling average was a 6 point win for the Dem, whe won by 15.5% as Akin under performed the polling

    Alabama is somewhat different to Missouri in 2012. It's not just very red, but has few swing voters.
    Yes, that was another point made in the excellent 538 coverage of the election. Alabama is red in a way few other GOP strongholds are. The voters simply dpn't swing.

    We are in unknown territory here though, and flying blind on account of the lack of reliable polls. The result could be anything. At 3/1, I'm a buyer of blues though, to fairly modest stakes.
    They might not swing but do they always turn out ?
    It's so unpredictable. But that is a good enough reason for taking 7/2 the Democrat to modest stakes.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,332
    tyson said:

    Luckyguy1983 said:

    rottenborough said:

    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/edinburghpaper/status/938092976911372289

    Clearly Begbie was not interviewed.
    Clearly no-one from Edinburgh was interviewed. I adore Edinburgh, and it's people have many wonderful qualities, but that one is not foremost.
    Edinburgh is the best place on the planet that I have seen yet....Marchmont is where I'd like to live....unfortunately my wife cannot do dark evenings in winter......

    Marchmont is lovely. My pals live there, just down the road from Rebus!!
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    You have to hand it to Arlene and the DUP, they are top-notch at negotiation (unlike Mrs May).
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 28,257
    edited December 2017
    Peter_the_Punter said:

    another_richard said:

    Peter_the_Punter said:

    Sean_F said:

    Alistair said:

    He's the other other side of the Alabama election - 2012 Missouri of the Todd Akin 'Legitimate Rape' incident.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senate_election_in_Missouri,_2012#Polling_2

    The highest the Dem polled was 51 points. She won with 54.5% of the vote. The RCP polling average was a 6 point win for the Dem, whe won by 15.5% as Akin under performed the polling

    Alabama is somewhat different to Missouri in 2012. It's not just very red, but has few swing voters.
    Yes, that was another point made in the excellent 538 coverage of the election. Alabama is red in a way few other GOP strongholds are. The voters simply dpn't swing.

    We are in unknown territory here though, and flying blind on account of the lack of reliable polls. The result could be anything. At 3/1, I'm a buyer of blues though, to fairly modest stakes.
    They might not swing but do they always turn out ?
    It's so unpredictable. But that is a good enough reason for taking 7/2 the Democrat to modest stakes.
    Indeed.

    Backing favourites has not been the profitable electoral bet in recent years.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,772
    JonnyJimmy said:

    I'm amazed that after days noone's answered.. We do have some people on here with legal expertise, don't we?

    If there were a current court case into an alleged sexual assault by Green, would the evidence presented by Quick and Lewis be admissible? Or would the judge insist that it be disregarded? Or something else?

    Surely one of you brains knows?

    Well you should remember that several MPs ended up in prison because of information was leaked* to the media during the expenses saga.

    *Some say illegally leaked.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,543
    JonnyJimmy said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    JonnyJimmy said:

    I'm amazed that after days noone's answered.. We do have some people on here with legal expertise, don't we?

    If there were a current court case into an alleged sexual assault by Green, would the evidence presented by Quick and Lewis be admissible? Or would the judge insist that it be disregarded? Or something else?

    Surely one of you brains knows?

    You sound a bit aggressive about it. The short answer is that it would be irrelevant, because watching pornography does not afaik constitute evidence of a propensity to sexually assault people. But the mere fact of Quick and Lewis being in breach of alleged duties of confidentiality in now disclosing this material would not make their evidence in court on these matters inadmissible, as far as I can see.
    Are you sure? The magistrate I work with thinks otherwise, but I'd really like to know what our legal eagles think. None of them have said though.
    If Green were accused of a sexual assault, then the only evidence that would be admissible would be that of a witness to the alleged assault.
  • JonnyJimmyJonnyJimmy Posts: 2,548
    Ishmael_Z said:

    JonnyJimmy said:

    I'm amazed that after days noone's answered.. We do have some people on here with legal expertise, don't we?

    If there were a current court case into an alleged sexual assault by Green, would the evidence presented by Quick and Lewis be admissible? Or would the judge insist that it be disregarded? Or something else?

    Surely one of you brains knows?

    You sound a bit aggressive about it. The short answer is that it would be irrelevant, because watching pornography does not afaik constitute evidence of a propensity to sexually assault people. But the mere fact of Quick and Lewis being in breach of alleged duties of confidentiality in now disclosing this material would not make their evidence in court on these matters inadmissible, as far as I can see.
    Aggressive? Sorry if so, but I am damned angry about this. I've been the victim of lazy policing that meant I was charged with the crime I was a victim of because they didn't bother to watch the cctv. The cps also ignored it, and my record's only clean because my indian IT pal at the company I worked at turned the cctv into frame by frame jpegs when they finally sent it to me the day before the trial. It was very clear that I'd been assaulted by the group of five people who accused me of attacking them. And I needed the cctv..

  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    JonnyJimmy said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    JonnyJimmy said:

    I'm amazed that after days noone's answered.. We do have some people on here with legal expertise, don't we?

    If there were a current court case into an alleged sexual assault by Green, would the evidence presented by Quick and Lewis be admissible? Or would the judge insist that it be disregarded? Or something else?

    Surely one of you brains knows?

    You sound a bit aggressive about it. The short answer is that it would be irrelevant, because watching pornography does not afaik constitute evidence of a propensity to sexually assault people. But the mere fact of Quick and Lewis being in breach of alleged duties of confidentiality in now disclosing this material would not make their evidence in court on these matters inadmissible, as far as I can see.
    Are you sure? The magistrate I work with thinks otherwise, but I'd really like to know what our legal eagles think. None of them have said though.
    Well, I'm a lawyer. I don't think you are very clear about what you are asking. The evidence we have at the moment would be inadmissible as hearsay, but I can see no reason why you shouldn't haul these blokes in as witnesses and ask for their first hand evidence of what they found, and give them a hard time if their evidence to the court deviated from what they had previously said to the bbc (because previous inconsistent statements are an exception to the rule against hearsay). I am not a criminal lawyer and I may be wrong about this, but then your magistrate colleague may not be a lawyer at all.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 28,257
    Danny565 said:

    You have to hand it to Arlene and the DUP, they are top-notch at negotiation (unlike Mrs May).

    They like to say NOOO!!!!!!

    It was the inability of British governments to say that in foreign policy over the last few decades which has caused so many current problems.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,123
    Does Nick Watt's affected way of talking and acting annoy other people? He presents like some kind of hamfisted Shakesperain old lag.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Sean_F said:

    JonnyJimmy said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    JonnyJimmy said:

    I'm amazed that after days noone's answered.. We do have some people on here with legal expertise, don't we?

    If there were a current court case into an alleged sexual assault by Green, would the evidence presented by Quick and Lewis be admissible? Or would the judge insist that it be disregarded? Or something else?

    Surely one of you brains knows?

    You sound a bit aggressive about it. The short answer is that it would be irrelevant, because watching pornography does not afaik constitute evidence of a propensity to sexually assault people. But the mere fact of Quick and Lewis being in breach of alleged duties of confidentiality in now disclosing this material would not make their evidence in court on these matters inadmissible, as far as I can see.
    Are you sure? The magistrate I work with thinks otherwise, but I'd really like to know what our legal eagles think. None of them have said though.
    If Green were accused of a sexual assault, then the only evidence that would be admissible would be that of a witness to the alleged assault.
    And the evidence of a recipient of an alleged confession by Green, and the evidence of witnesses to other incidents which constituted similar fact evidence, and the evidence of witnesses supporting an alibi defence by Green, and dozens of other sorts of evidence.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,795
    another_richard said:

    Peter_the_Punter said:

    another_richard said:

    Peter_the_Punter said:

    Sean_F said:

    Alistair said:

    He's the other other side of the Alabama election - 2012 Missouri of the Todd Akin 'Legitimate Rape' incident.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senate_election_in_Missouri,_2012#Polling_2

    The highest the Dem polled was 51 points. She won with 54.5% of the vote. The RCP polling average was a 6 point win for the Dem, whe won by 15.5% as Akin under performed the polling

    Alabama is somewhat different to Missouri in 2012. It's not just very red, but has few swing voters.
    Yes, that was another point made in the excellent 538 coverage of the election. Alabama is red in a way few other GOP strongholds are. The voters simply dpn't swing.

    We are in unknown territory here though, and flying blind on account of the lack of reliable polls. The result could be anything. At 3/1, I'm a buyer of blues though, to fairly modest stakes.
    They might not swing but do they always turn out ?
    It's so unpredictable. But that is a good enough reason for taking 7/2 the Democrat to modest stakes.
    Indeed.

    Backing favourites has not been the profitable electoral bet in recent years.
    Bang on cue, there's a new discussion of the race on 538.

    https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/was-trumps-endorsement-of-roy-moore-a-mistake/

    Spoiler alert. It doesn't really help you make your mind up as to who will win!
  • JonnyJimmyJonnyJimmy Posts: 2,548
    If this evidence is irrelevant to a sexual assault, how is relevant to a clumsy text investigation?

    And so how is Quick's public interest defence at all justifiable?
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,977
    another_richard said:

    Danny565 said:

    You have to hand it to Arlene and the DUP, they are top-notch at negotiation (unlike Mrs May).

    They like to say NOOO!!!!!!

    It was the inability of British governments to say that in foreign policy over the last few decades which has caused so many current problems.
    Indeed. Perhaps Arlene Foster should be given David Davis' job. She, at least, seems to be capable of standing up to EU bullying.

    Plant a well-thumbed copy of Reader's Wives in Damien Green's red box, then sack him to get Davis to resign on principle. Promote Arlene. Hand her a copy of SeanT's Diamond Hard Brexit (TM) and let her get on with the job.

    It's what Frank Underwood would do.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,772
    The MOD are rather childish aren't they.

    https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/938177191921311744
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    Interesting......

    https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/why-ireland-wants-to-join-the-francophonie-1.3312316?mode=amp
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,123
    edited December 2017
    Mortimer said:

    tyson said:

    Luckyguy1983 said:

    rottenborough said:

    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/edinburghpaper/status/938092976911372289

    Clearly Begbie was not interviewed.
    Clearly no-one from Edinburgh was interviewed. I adore Edinburgh, and it's people have many wonderful qualities, but that one is not foremost.
    Edinburgh is the best place on the planet that I have seen yet....Marchmont is where I'd like to live....unfortunately my wife cannot do dark evenings in winter......

    Marchmont is lovely. My pals live there, just down the road from Rebus!!
    Sometimes in the heat of a Florentine summer, bitten by mozzies, unable to get cool I used to think back to my Edinburgh nights where you could still snuggle into your duvet even during mid August......

    Rankin is a sad loss......
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,546
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    The MOD are rather childish aren't they.

    twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/938177191921311744

    Well in real life if you don't pay your bills, they cut you off.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,543
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Sean_F said:

    JonnyJimmy said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    JonnyJimmy said:

    I'm amazed that after days noone's answered.. We do have some people on here with legal expertise, don't we?

    If there were a current court case into an alleged sexual assault by Green, would the evidence presented by Quick and Lewis be admissible? Or would the judge insist that it be disregarded? Or something else?

    Surely one of you brains knows?

    You sound a bit aggressive about it. The short answer is that it would be irrelevant, because watching pornography does not afaik constitute evidence of a propensity to sexually assault people. But the mere fact of Quick and Lewis being in breach of alleged duties of confidentiality in now disclosing this material would not make their evidence in court on these matters inadmissible, as far as I can see.
    Are you sure? The magistrate I work with thinks otherwise, but I'd really like to know what our legal eagles think. None of them have said though.
    If Green were accused of a sexual assault, then the only evidence that would be admissible would be that of a witness to the alleged assault.
    And the evidence of a recipient of an alleged confession by Green, and the evidence of witnesses to other incidents which constituted similar fact evidence, and the evidence of witnesses supporting an alibi defence by Green, and dozens of other sorts of evidence.
    For sure. I was trying to be succinct, but I should have been explicit that the evidence of Quick and Lewis, that pornography had been found on a computer in his office, would be irrelevant to such a case. The question of whether such evidence had been obtained unlawfully would not have to be determined.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,772
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    The MOD are rather childish aren't they.

    twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/938177191921311744

    Well in real life if you don't pay your bills, they cut you off.
    Gavin Williamson = Shit stirrer.

    No wonder Mrs May promoted him.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    Irish Times also has Peston’s three scenarios plan:

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/brexit-government-denies-trying-to-keep-border-deal-details-from-dup-1.3316341
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,332
    tyson said:

    Mortimer said:

    tyson said:

    Luckyguy1983 said:

    rottenborough said:

    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/edinburghpaper/status/938092976911372289

    Clearly Begbie was not interviewed.
    Clearly no-one from Edinburgh was interviewed. I adore Edinburgh, and it's people have many wonderful qualities, but that one is not foremost.
    Edinburgh is the best place on the planet that I have seen yet....Marchmont is where I'd like to live....unfortunately my wife cannot do dark evenings in winter......

    Marchmont is lovely. My pals live there, just down the road from Rebus!!
    Sometimes in the heat of a Florentine summer, bitten by mozzies, unable to get cool I used to think back to my Edinburgh nights where you could still snuggle into your duvet even during mid August......

    Rankin is a sad loss......
    Eh? He's still around. Lovely chap. Opened the Edinburgh Antiquarian Book fair this year.
  • JonnyJimmyJonnyJimmy Posts: 2,548
    I've only ever gone to a public protest against homeopathy, but I'd definitely go to one against the Met if they don't come down hard on the bent cops.

    They have to make an example of them. If cops can get away with this sort of thing, none of us are safe.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,772
    So I've set my alarm for 3.15am.

    Don't let me down England.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,384
    JonnyJimmy said:

    I've only ever gone to a public protest against homeopathy, but I'd definitely go to one against the Met if they don't come down hard on the bent cops.

    They have to make an example of them. If cops can get away with this sort of thing, none of us are safe.

    That empty pavement across the street - that was the homeopathic counter-protest.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,546
    edited December 2017
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    So I've set my alarm for 3.15am.

    Don't let me down England.

    You have a lot more confidence than me*....I fear by 4.30am you will be sitting watching BT Sport trying to fill time for the next 5-6hrs of their schedule.

    * Although I will be watching.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,707
    SandyRentool said:

    JonnyJimmy said:

    I've only ever gone to a public protest against homeopathy, but I'd definitely go to one against the Met if they don't come down hard on the bent cops.

    They have to make an example of them. If cops can get away with this sort of thing, none of us are safe.

    That empty pavement across the street - that was the homeopathic counter-protest.
    Never before have I seen such a high concentration of pro-homeopathists :o
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    edited December 2017
    86% Of Sweden’s “Child Refugee” Applicants Are Adults, Government Study Says

    https://nationaleconomicseditorial.com/2017/07/15/sweden-child-migrants/

    And the likes of Yvette cooper wanted to bring thousands of so called children to our shores.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,772
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    So I've set my alarm for 3.15am.

    Don't let me down England.

    You have a lot more confidence than me*....I fear by 4.30am you will be sitting watching BT Sport trying to fill time for the next 5-6hrs of their schedule.

    * Although I will be watching.
    Yorkshire's Joe Root & Johnny Bairstow and the beard that's feared will see us home.

    Tomorrow's going to be an epic sporting day, got tickets to see Liverpool v Spartak Moscow as well.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,123
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    So I've set my alarm for 3.15am.

    Don't let me down England.

    my friend asked me for the odds...since we are pretty much dependant on Root adding a further 70 or more to his score, I think that the odds are about 5-1....

    I've been relying on Ceremony (my usual wake up call) by Joy Division to wake me up earlier at 3.00 these last few nights and then I drift delightfully into a trip TMS inspired Trippy five hour in and out doze with the likes of Boycers, Aggers, Tuffers in the background of this enormously exciting test match,,,,,
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,546
    Tykejohnno said:

    86% Of Sweden’s “Child Refugee” Applicants Are Adults, Government Study Says

    https://nationaleconomicseditorial.com/2017/07/15/sweden-child-migrants/

    And the likes of Yvette cooper wanted to bring thousands of so called children to our shores.

    Surely not....I am shocked I tell you.
  • JonnyJimmyJonnyJimmy Posts: 2,548
    SandyRentool said:

    JonnyJimmy said:

    I've only ever gone to a public protest against homeopathy, but I'd definitely go to one against the Met if they don't come down hard on the bent cops.

    They have to make an example of them. If cops can get away with this sort of thing, none of us are safe.

    That empty pavement across the street - that was the homeopathic counter-protest.
    Very good! If you ever feel like a protest against anti-science, October 23rd is the day.
  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    edited December 2017
    Anyone who understands Stormont over the last lot of years understands how well the DUP does careful wording and matching the technocratic with the political. They've had the whip hand Stormont in reality, one of the reasons why Sinn Fein are in boycott. Check the way the DUP worked wording around the Irish language stuff in the St Andrews Agreement. Sinn Fein left believing they had a cast iron outcome and they got f**k all of the sort.

    As I mentioned last night over Bertie Ahern's intervention a few weeks back, today we have Enda Kenny. Generationally Kenny and Ahern have longer memories and a bit more political skills than Varadkar in particular.

    The truth is no-one plans for a hard border but the Irish government through a mix of stupidity and over-enthusiasm has mishandled things in tone. Its high risk, the UK is a key export market, but the Republic of Ireland is not half a big a market for NI than you'd think. Fact is, for us the mainland GB market is critical. Ireland has a lot to lose and Varadkar has got his administration into a position of defending a poor bit of play

    Trumpton

    All the way back in November 2016 I mentioned Deutsche Bank and their role in helping out Trump when his empire was on its knees and he had such a crap credit rating. The banks links to Russia and the movement of oligarch money has long been known. Their official line of credit to Trump simply wasn't enough. The perhaps well founded suspicion is that they moved money from Russian interests to Trump over many years, not just relating to the presidential campaign. .

    Lets remember this apparently top notch business guy had casinos that shipped cash.

    Trump has made it clear once any investigation got into his finances he would go all out to stop it. That this has come out, from the bank itself, could suggest the bank is making a call to its very high debtor. Its not clear at this point whether its something the investigation wanted put out there but in reality they probably has the info they requested already. The US financial system investigators have very long reach, so you'd prefer, as a large bank, not to get on their wrong side have long had issues with Deutsche. Those investigators and regulators are not fans of the lads from Germany, for good reason.

    The plot to get rid of Mueller is really on the table. They are trying to prep the angles.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,546
    tyson said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    So I've set my alarm for 3.15am.

    Don't let me down England.

    my friend asked me for the odds...since we are pretty much dependant on Root adding a further 70 or more to his score, I think that the odds are about 5-1....

    I've been relying on Ceremony (my usual wake up call) by Joy Division to wake me up earlier at 3.00 these last few nights and then I drift delightfully into a trip TMS inspired Trippy five hour in and out doze with the likes of Boycers, Aggers, Tuffers in the background of this enormously exciting test match,,,,,
    5/1 is 16.7%, which is around what Cricviz had. Still seems optimistic to me.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,123
    Mortimer said:

    tyson said:

    Mortimer said:

    tyson said:

    Luckyguy1983 said:

    rottenborough said:

    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/edinburghpaper/status/938092976911372289

    Clearly Begbie was not interviewed.
    Clearly no-one from Edinburgh was interviewed. I adore Edinburgh, and it's people have many wonderful qualities, but that one is not foremost.
    Edinburgh is the best place on the planet that I have seen yet....Marchmont is where I'd like to live....unfortunately my wife cannot do dark evenings in winter......

    Marchmont is lovely. My pals live there, just down the road from Rebus!!
    Sometimes in the heat of a Florentine summer, bitten by mozzies, unable to get cool I used to think back to my Edinburgh nights where you could still snuggle into your duvet even during mid August......

    Rankin is a sad loss......
    Eh? He's still around. Lovely chap. Opened the Edinburgh Antiquarian Book fair this year.
    Oh dear....I got him confused with Ian Banks....I think it's time I went to bed with a Philip Kerr novel. I am a Gunther fan....
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,949
    Danny565 said:

    You have to hand it to Arlene and the DUP, they are top-notch at negotiation (unlike Mrs May).

    We should send Arlene over to negotiate Brexit with Juncker and Barnier. She'd make a better job of than Theresa and DD.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    GIN1138 said:

    Danny565 said:

    You have to hand it to Arlene and the DUP, they are top-notch at negotiation (unlike Mrs May).

    We should send Arlene over to negotiate Brexit with Juncker and Barnier. She'd make a better job of than Theresa and DD.
    Given that the real negotiations are within the Tory party, perhaps May should make Arlene Foster the chief whip.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    Y0kel said:

    the Irish government through a mix of stupidity and over-enthusiasm has mishandled things......Ireland has a lot to lose and Varadkar has got his administration into a position of defending a poor bit of play

    Are you sure?

    We're constantly being assured that Varadkar has 'played a blinder'......
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    Going back to another favourite topic, remember all that repeated fuss about the government's alleged excessive generosity to pensioners?

    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/dec/05/oecd-uk-has-lowest-state-pension-of-any-developed-country
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    https://twitter.com/BenGoldsmith/status/937985994539831296
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    CarlottaVance said:



    twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/938171387054878720?s=17

    Labour does not need to have a clear position on Brexit, other than that the Tories are making a right dog's breakfast of it. Our problem is the Cabinet.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,772
    Theresa May is facing a Cabinet revolt after Brexiteers led by Boris Johnson and Michael Gove expressed “genuine fear” the Prime Minister is trying to force through a soft Brexit.

    Mrs May was accused of trying to “bounce” the Cabinet into agreeing to “regulatory alignment” between Ulster and Ireland after it emerged she did not brief senior ministers before talks in Brussels on Monday that stalled over the controversial issue.

    David Davis, the Brexit Secretary, said that any alignment 
between the north and south in Ireland would apply to the whole of the UK, which Leave supporters interpreted as Britain remaining yoked to the EU.

    One Cabinet source said: “It seems that either Northern Ireland is splitting from the rest of the UK or we are headed for high alignment with the EU, which certainly hasn’t been agreed by Cabinet. The Prime Minister is playing a risky game.”

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/12/05/brexit-deal-chaos-theresa-may-warned-will-face-leadership-challenge/
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,949
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Theresa May is facing a Cabinet revolt after Brexiteers led by Boris Johnson and Michael Gove expressed “genuine fear” the Prime Minister is trying to force through a soft Brexit.

    Mrs May was accused of trying to “bounce” the Cabinet into agreeing to “regulatory alignment” between Ulster and Ireland after it emerged she did not brief senior ministers before talks in Brussels on Monday that stalled over the controversial issue.

    David Davis, the Brexit Secretary, said that any alignment 
between the north and south in Ireland would apply to the whole of the UK, which Leave supporters interpreted as Britain remaining yoked to the EU.

    One Cabinet source said: “It seems that either Northern Ireland is splitting from the rest of the UK or we are headed for high alignment with the EU, which certainly hasn’t been agreed by Cabinet. The Prime Minister is playing a risky game.”

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/12/05/brexit-deal-chaos-theresa-may-warned-will-face-leadership-challenge/

    Time for Boris and Gove to do a Brutus on Theresa...
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    Y0kel said:

    All the way back in November 2016 I mentioned Deutsche Bank and their role in helping out Trump when his empire was on its knees and he had such a crap credit rating. The banks links to Russia and the movement of oligarch money has long been known. Their official line of credit to Trump simply wasn't enough. The perhaps well founded suspicion is that they moved money from Russian interests to Trump over many years, not just relating to the presidential campaign. .

    Lets remember this apparently top notch business guy had casinos that shipped cash.

    Trump has made it clear once any investigation got into his finances he would go all out to stop it. That this has come out, from the bank itself, could suggest the bank is making a call to its very high debtor. Its not clear at this point whether its something the investigation wanted put out there but in reality they probably has the info they requested already. The US financial system investigators have very long reach, so you'd prefer, as a large bank, not to get on their wrong side have long had issues with Deutsche. Those investigators and regulators are not fans of the lads from Germany, for good reason.

    The plot to get rid of Mueller is really on the table. They are trying to prep the angles.

    But even if Trump does sack Mueller, the Trump Organizatin is based in New York City which puts it in the jurisdiction of Eric Schneiderman, the New York State Attorney-General. Trump can’t fire Schneiderman, nor pardon himself for state-level crimes, and Schmeiderman is already working with Mueller: it’s a certainty that if there’s anything dodgy in the Deutsche Bank records that would come under Schneiderman’s purview, he’ll have it.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    Don't you just yearn for the days when negotiations were carried out without Twitter in smoke-filled rooms by unaccountable men in grey suits?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,751
    JonnyJimmy said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    JonnyJimmy said:

    I'm amazed that after days noone's answered.. We do have some people on here with legal expertise, don't we?

    If there were a current court case into an alleged sexual assault by Green, would the evidence presented by Quick and Lewis be admissible? Or would the judge insist that it be disregarded? Or something else?

    Surely one of you brains knows?

    You sound a bit aggressive about it. The short answer is that it would be irrelevant, because watching pornography does not afaik constitute evidence of a propensity to sexually assault people. But the mere fact of Quick and Lewis being in breach of alleged duties of confidentiality in now disclosing this material would not make their evidence in court on these matters inadmissible, as far as I can see.
    Are you sure? The magistrate I work with thinks otherwise, but I'd really like to know what our legal eagles think. None of them have said though.
    The fact that a computer used by Green had legal pornography on it would not be relevant evidence were Green to be tried on a charge of sexual assault. It does not seem to me, based on what I know, to fall within scope of “similar fact evidence”.

    Assuming, for a moment, that it was allowed in evidence, there would then be the issue of its probative value: how was the computer searched it, who did it, what records were kept at the time, what other checks were made etc.... The opinions of the police officers years later do not constitute evidence.

    Generally, the prosecution are not allowed to adduce evidence of bad character except in very specific and limited circumstances. And remember it is the prosecution which would have to prove its case (of sexual assault) beyond reasonable doubt. Viewing or having legal pornography is not a criminal offence and would not be an issue in such a case.

    That is one reason why the disclosure of this information - for no good reason other than that it seemed titillating at a time when interest was focused on MPs’ sex lives - is so damaging. Green cannot clear his name of this allegation and is having to defend himself against a charge of doing something legal, however immoral some may find it. Even if it were true that he did view legal pornography, it is not the job of the police to monitor public morality or to act as Parliament’s HR department.

    Remember also that they searched his home and looked at love letters to his wife and other personal stuff. If they did not destroy data relating to the computer, as they were ordered to, how much confidence can Green have that they have not kept other material and that it might be released in future to embarrass him?

    Breaching confidentiality and abuse of power by the police are more serious, IMO, than the seedy viewing habits of middle-aged men.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 28,257
    Tykejohnno said:

    86% Of Sweden’s “Child Refugee” Applicants Are Adults, Government Study Says

    https://nationaleconomicseditorial.com/2017/07/15/sweden-child-migrants/

    And the likes of Yvette cooper wanted to bring thousands of so called children to our shores.

    Not just adults but male adults:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-35444173
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,543
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Don't you just yearn for the days when negotiations were carried out without Twitter in smoke-filled rooms by unaccountable men in grey suits?

    I don't think there's anything to be lost by remaining discreet, when trying to negotiate a deal. Selective leaks, tweets, running commentaries, just make the job harder.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,977
    Tykejohnno said:

    https://twitter.com/BenGoldsmith/status/937985994539831296

    Exactly. I'm genuinely struggling to understand the triumphalist "hah, this'll stop Brexit, there will be a second referendum now, we'll stay in after all" attitude of some of the remainers the last couple of days.

    Here's how this will play out in Brexitland. People will say "wot, we can't leave the EU because the Irish say so? The bleedin' Irish? They don't run this country. I voted to leave the EU and now you're telling me some other country says we can't?"

    "No, what we're saying is we're going to have another referendum, now you have had time to reflect on what Brexit means, and why the geopolitcal ramifications make it impossible."

    "The geo-politi-wot? I voted Brexit. And Brexit means Brexit. How many times do I have to tell you? If you make me vote agian, I'm gonna vote Brexit again. And again. And again. Because I don't like being told what to do, least of all by some other bloody country."

    Trust me - being told we can't leave because some other country says we can't plays very badly in Brexitland, because it was precisely why people voted to leave in the first place.
  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    rpjs said:

    Y0kel said:

    All the way back in November 2016 I mentioned Deutsche Bank and their role in helping out Trump when his empire was on its knees and he had such a crap credit rating. The banks links to Russia and the movement of oligarch money has long been known. Their official line of credit to Trump simply wasn't enough. The perhaps well founded suspicion is that they moved money from Russian interests to Trump over many years, not just relating to the presidential campaign. .

    Lets remember this apparently top notch business guy had casinos that shipped cash.

    Trump has made it clear once any investigation got into his finances he would go all out to stop it. That this has come out, from the bank itself, could suggest the bank is making a call to its very high debtor. Its not clear at this point whether its something the investigation wanted put out there but in reality they probably has the info they requested already. The US financial system investigators have very long reach, so you'd prefer, as a large bank, not to get on their wrong side have long had issues with Deutsche. Those investigators and regulators are not fans of the lads from Germany, for good reason.

    The plot to get rid of Mueller is really on the table. They are trying to prep the angles.

    But even if Trump does sack Mueller, the Trump Organizatin is based in New York City which puts it in the jurisdiction of Eric Schneiderman, the New York State Attorney-General. Trump can’t fire Schneiderman, nor pardon himself for state-level crimes, and Schmeiderman is already working with Mueller: it’s a certainty that if there’s anything dodgy in the Deutsche Bank records that would come under Schneiderman’s purview, he’ll have it.
    There is interesting info within the Deutsche transactions, which is why Mueller asked for them. Whether they are core to his own investigation, however, remains to be seen but they are central to happenings at the NYAG office.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    JonnyJimmy said:

    I've only ever gone to a public protest against homeopathy, but I'd definitely go to one against the Met if they don't come down hard on the bent cops.

    They have to make an example of them. If cops can get away with this sort of thing, none of us are safe.

    With what sort of thing? Are the police accused of leaking genuine evidence or of making the whole thing up?
  • BudGBudG Posts: 711
    I don't know why May just doesn't remove the DUP problem by calling a General Election stating " It is necessary to secure the strong and stable leadership the country needs to see us through Brexit"

    What could possibly go wrong? (innocent face)
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    kyf_100 said:

    Trust me - being told we can't leave because some other country says we can't plays very badly in Brexitland, because it was precisely why people voted to leave in the first place.

    Tell me, in Brexitland, is Northern Ireland 'some other country'?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,543
    kyf_100 said:

    Tykejohnno said:

    https://twitter.com/BenGoldsmith/status/937985994539831296

    Exactly. I'm genuinely struggling to understand the triumphalist "hah, this'll stop Brexit, there will be a second referendum now, we'll stay in after all" attitude of some of the remainers the last couple of days.

    Here's how this will play out in Brexitland. People will say "wot, we can't leave the EU because the Irish say so? The bleedin' Irish? They don't run this country. I voted to leave the EU and now you're telling me some other country says we can't?"

    "No, what we're saying is we're going to have another referendum, now you have had time to reflect on what Brexit means, and why the geopolitcal ramifications make it impossible."

    "The geo-politi-wot? I voted Brexit. And Brexit means Brexit. How many times do I have to tell you? If you make me vote agian, I'm gonna vote Brexit again. And again. And again. Because I don't like being told what to do, least of all by some other bloody country."

    Trust me - being told we can't leave because some other country says we can't plays very badly in Brexitland, because it was precisely why people voted to leave in the first place.
    Even supposing there was a narrow vote to reverse Brexit, in a Second Referendum, it would be unlikely to settle the issue. If a Second Referendum still resulted in a Leave vote, what then? Do we have a third?
  • JonnyJimmyJonnyJimmy Posts: 2,548
    Ishmael_Z said:

    the mere fact of Quick and Lewis being in breach of alleged duties of confidentiality in now disclosing this material would not make their evidence in court on these matters inadmissible, as far as I can see.

    Really? Why bother telling cops to destroy evidence then?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Don't you just yearn for the days when negotiations were carried out without Twitter in smoke-filled rooms by unaccountable men in grey suits?

    'Beer and sandwiches at Number 10'........
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    Sean_F said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Don't you just yearn for the days when negotiations were carried out without Twitter in smoke-filled rooms by unaccountable men in grey suits?

    Selective leaks, tweets, running commentaries, just make the job harder.
    As the Irish government has demonstrated......
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