politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Damian Green’s computer is none of our business
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Very weird to hear a break in the cricket described as “dinner”.0
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Also don't forget they lied about being a random member of the public that witnessed the incident claiming that their kid overheard it and it upset them.Richard_Tyndall said:
Not enough of them.FrancisUrquhart said:
Police officers went to prison....Jonathan said:Plebgate, how did that work out in the end?
Serving officers lying about a meeting with an MP and only being caught out because he recorded the meeting should have resulted in dismissals and prosecutions. That they did not is equally as bad as the original crime.0 -
Two sides to this argument, firstly, the main reason watching porn is banned on work computers is that a lot of the Web sites concerned were honey traps for viruses and other nasties, as such nearly all organisations have rules making looking at it a potentially sackable offence. (Accidently clicking on a link and finding lots of pictures flashing onto the screen happens and will lead to a "wrist slap" and a telling off to be more careful. While a consistent record over a period of time is a definite no-no and P45 time)
The other side is the serving or retired Police officers disclosing information which is embarrassing to a senior member of the government. Apart from being naughty to the extent of being illegal, if the information is true, then if they don't disclose, they are accused of a cover up, if they do disclose the information, they are accused of having an agenda (shock, horror, how can anyone ever be accused of having an agenda? If it was a sackable offence, most of those in Westminster would be in prison let alone being unemployed or working as lawyers).
If the Police, or more likely, a small number of officers have an "agenda" to rid the country of something that they consider a danger to their organisation or to the public /country/monarchy whatever, then that is worrying on many different levels.
That sections of the media, in defense or attack on Green are keeping the story live is continuing the damage to the Tory government and incidentally, diverting attention from the increasing mess they are making of Brexit/Defence/NHS/etc./etc...
As far as I concerned, and probably most of the public, looking at porn, either at work or elsewhere, is irrelevant, being caught out 10 years later, totally irrelevant, but getting the feeling of being "played" is just increasing the distrust of the administration.0 -
It's just not..... Cricket.....Sandpit said:Very weird to hear a break in the cricket described as “dinner”.
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No, to the first question. Even the police are not claiming that although they tried to claim he had acted illegally at the time (unconvincingly given that the man who appears to have ordered the raid had himself consistently leaked government secrets in the 1980s).Jonathan said:Has Green committed a crime or has his standards fallen below what we might expect of an MP.?
No to the second question as well because we always expect MPs to be a lot of tossers. What else can you expect from a job that demands long hours, living away from home and is dominated by mass debating?0 -
I was struck yesterday by how many journalists on twitter, and by no means the usual suspects, were focusing on the role of the police. They may have overreached themselves.0
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F1: post-season review, with a quartet of lovely graphs:
http://enormo-haddock.blogspot.co.uk/2017/12/2017-post-season-review.html0 -
I'm pretty sure that I made this point when I was drunk last night, but heads really should be rolling at the BBC over this. They are accomplices to whatever crimes these bent cops have committed. They should have sent that interview straight to the police, and let someone else take the risk of reporting it. What they've done in spreading it around the world is an absolute disgrace.0
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In a way though it is progress. They're now pissing off everybody rather than just the enemies of the people who pay their wages.AlastairMeeks said:I was struck yesterday by how many journalists on twitter, and by no means the usual suspects, were focusing on the role of the police. They may have overreached themselves.
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The kindest assumption is that that is not intended as a serious question.JonnyJimmy said:
Equally as bad as maybe calling someone a pleb?Richard_Tyndall said:
Not enough of them.FrancisUrquhart said:
Police officers went to prison....Jonathan said:Plebgate, how did that work out in the end?
Serving officers lying about a meeting with an MP and only being caught out because he recorded the meeting should have resulted in dismissals and prosecutions. That they did not is equally as bad as the original crime.0 -
Calling someone a pleb is a crass stupid thing to do which reveals much about the man. Whether or not it results in further action is a political decision.JonnyJimmy said:
Equally as bad as maybe calling someone a pleb?Richard_Tyndall said:
Not enough of them.FrancisUrquhart said:
Police officers went to prison....Jonathan said:Plebgate, how did that work out in the end?
Serving officers lying about a meeting with an MP and only being caught out because he recorded the meeting should have resulted in dismissals and prosecutions. That they did not is equally as bad as the original crime.
Serving police officers lying about the content of a meeting for the purposes of discrediting a public servant should be grounds for dismissal.
It is not just my opinion. Lord Normington chaired a review into the workings of the Police Federation after Plebgate and found a "worrying loss of competence". This is on the back of the Federation threatening legal action against the IPCC because they dared to investigate the three officers who lied about the meeting with Mitchell.0 -
With plebgate, I also thought it seemed a massive media over reaction / total focus on the word pleb. Would he have been ok if he called them a dick, what about tw@t or wanker? And I am sure the police get called far worse every day.
The story for me was him not adhering to the rules, not what word he used.0 -
WorryingCasino_Royale said:
Wow. I actually agree with you.Roger said:We are in a climate where putting your arm around someone's shoulder twenty years ago or asking someone out for a drink with a twinkle in your eye is now so heinous an offense that I believe the policemen actually believed exposing Damien Green was a public service.
Until we reset our values and stop this guilty until proved innoceent in anything relating to inter personal relationships episodes like Damien Green will happen repeatedly.
....Or perhaps this'll be the turning point we desperately need0 -
Where's AC-12?0
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There were some fairly startling stats released the other day about the number of times per day HoC computers are prevented by the firewall from accessing porn. The stats were accompanied by the old favourite "it was a popup opened by another site", ignoring the points that all browsers efficiently block popups these days, and that a site you look at which tries to open porny popups is probably not Gardener's World Online in the first place. Anyway if it was me I'd fire the IT department if a virus got into the system from a porn site, and mildly reprimand the pornseeker.OchEye said:Two sides to this argument, firstly, the main reason watching porn is banned on work computers is that a lot of the Web sites concerned were honey traps for viruses and other nasties, as such nearly all organisations have rules making looking at it a potentially sackable offence. (Accidently clicking on a link and finding lots of pictures flashing onto the screen happens and will lead to a "wrist slap" and a telling off to be more careful. While a consistent record over a period of time is a definite no-no and P45 time)
The other side is the serving or retired Police officers disclosing information which is embarrassing to a senior member of the government. Apart from being naughty to the extent of being illegal, if the information is true, then if they don't disclose, they are accused of a cover up, if they do disclose the information, they are accused of having an agenda (shock, horror, how can anyone ever be accused of having an agenda? If it was a sackable offence, most of those in Westminster would be in prison let alone being unemployed or working as lawyers).
If the Police, or more likely, a small number of officers have an "agenda" to rid the country of something that they consider a danger to their organisation or to the public /country/monarchy whatever, then that is worrying on many different levels.
That sections of the media, in defense or attack on Green are keeping the story live is continuing the damage to the Tory government and incidentally, diverting attention from the increasing mess they are making of Brexit/Defence/NHS/etc./etc...
As far as I concerned, and probably most of the public, looking at porn, either at work or elsewhere, is irrelevant, being caught out 10 years later, totally irrelevant, but getting the feeling of being "played" is just increasing the distrust of the administration.0 -
Precisely. I don't think maybe crass and stupid is "equally as bad" as bent cops dishonestly conspiring against an elected politician.Richard_Tyndall said:
Calling someone a pleb is a crass stupid thing to do which reveals much about the man. Whether or not it results in further action is a political decision.JonnyJimmy said:
Equally as bad as maybe calling someone a pleb?Richard_Tyndall said:
Not enough of them.FrancisUrquhart said:
Police officers went to prison....Jonathan said:Plebgate, how did that work out in the end?
Serving officers lying about a meeting with an MP and only being caught out because he recorded the meeting should have resulted in dismissals and prosecutions. That they did not is equally as bad as the original crime.
Serving police officers lying about the content of a meeting for the purposes of discrediting a public servant should be grounds for dismissal.
It is not just my opinion. Lord Normington chaired a review into the workings of the Police Federation after Plebgate and found a "worrying loss of competence". This is on the back of the Federation threatening legal action against the IPCC because they dared to investigate the three officers who lied about the meeting with Mitchell.0 -
I don't know. Yezhov, chief of the NKVD during the Great Terror, famously had the combined hobbies of torture, extreme pornography and rock gardening.Ishmael_Z said:a site you look at which tries to open porny popups is probably not Gardener's World Online in the first place.
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+1JonnyJimmy said:I'm pretty sure that I made this point when I was drunk last night, but heads really should be rolling at the BBC over this. They are accomplices to whatever crimes these bent cops have committed. They should have sent that interview straight to the police, and let someone else take the risk of reporting it. What they've done in spreading it around the world is an absolute disgrace.
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Another side of this argument is that a lot of completely legal websites of jokes and videos a decade ago, were full of pop ups for porn sites. Remember that a decade ago YouTube and Facebook were very new. Without proper analysis of the computer and network it’s not possible to determine whether the porn was something that someone intended to view or if it popped up inadvertently.OchEye said:Two sides to this argument, firstly, the main reason watching porn is banned on work computers is that a lot of the Web sites concerned were honey traps for viruses and other nasties, as such nearly all organisations have rules making looking at it a potentially sackable offence. (Accidently clicking on a link and finding lots of pictures flashing onto the screen happens and will lead to a "wrist slap" and a telling off to be more careful. While a consistent record over a period of time is a definite no-no and P45 time)
It’s way out of order for retired policemen to have kept their notes and then come out a decade later to say they found stuff that was embarrassing but not illegal.0 -
Today, I would have hoped that HoC computers would have anti-virus, anti-malware and adblockers installed as standard....But I bet they don't.0
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And we all remember good old Flavius.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Jonathan, Flavius Phocas ended up as emperor. Just because a thing happens doesn't mean it's good or just.
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Isn't that a coffee machine?Recidivist said:
And we all remember good old Flavius.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Jonathan, Flavius Phocas ended up as emperor. Just because a thing happens doesn't mean it's good or just.
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Mr. Recidivist, obviously
His main claim to fame appears to have been popularising mutilation as a way of dealing with rivals.0 -
A lot of this stuff is now handled at the firewall level, and modern computers and browsers are much better at dealing with Internet crap than they used to be, for example with the security screen that comes up when one tries to install software. Adblockers should be standard everywhere, adverts are the biggest source of malware - but they’re not.FrancisUrquhart said:Today, I would have hoped that HoC computers would have anti-virus, anti-malware and adblockers installed as standard....But I bet they don't.
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Incidentally the film 'Battle of the Sexes' about the tennis match between Billie Jean King and Bobby Riggs is surprisingly watchable.
A very well written script by Simon Beaufoy (from Yorkshire!) and brilliantlly acted it turned out to be everything I wasn't expecting. Apart from too much focus on Billie Jean's lesbianism it was a wonderful critique of early feminism, gender equality, American consumerism, gambling and an interesting history of 70's tennis.0 -
I have recently gone to using the brave browser on mobile, where Adblock extensions are not available.Sandpit said:
A lot of this stuff is now handled at the firewall level, and modern computers and browsers are much better at dealing with Internet crap than they used to be, for example with the security screen that comes up when one tries to install software. Adblockers should be standard everywhere, adverts are the biggest source of malware - but they’re not.FrancisUrquhart said:Today, I would have hoped that HoC computers would have anti-virus, anti-malware and adblockers installed as standard....But I bet they don't.
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Very good. The standout statistic there is Mercedes having 39 race finishes from 40 entries. Every one of the 39 in the points, with Bottas’ engine failure in Spain the only failure to finish of the whole season.Morris_Dancer said:F1: post-season review, with a quartet of lovely graphs:
http://enormo-haddock.blogspot.co.uk/2017/12/2017-post-season-review.html
Force India were almost as reliable, their 4th place finish in the contructors’ championship came from that rather than outright pace.0 -
Whatever the ins and outs of whatever they did or did not find on Green's computer, it would appear to me that actually what the ex-police officers have done here is illegal. If they have retained records not germane to the initial investigation, and then made them public, that appears prima facie to be a double breach of the data protection act.Sandpit said:It’s way out of order for retired policemen to have kept their notes and then come out a decade later to say they found stuff that was embarrassing but not illegal.
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Nah. We'd hear a very different story from you if this was a Labour MP involved.Jonathan said:
The idea that we know the full story is absurd. It gets messy when two part of establishment tear into one another. The best thing to do is watch, learn and try to fathom out the murky backstory.kle4 said:
It’s not for serving or ex police to resolve that is the key. Green actling like a cock or on his cock at work is not for them to police. If he’s done it it should have been looked into at the time and his constituents could make a judgement if they still wanted this guy to serve them. Taking police notes and settling scores to punish him is not on. It is not their job, and that people should wank at work, or misuse an official laptop, does not change that.Jonathan said:
The real world? Porn on a work computer? No.Casino_Royale said:
We want our MPs to be monks and saints, but also to live in the real world.Jonathan said:Has Green committed a crime or has his standards fallen below what we might expect of an MP.?
Anger at them does not mean what he did is right, if it’s true, but it is irrelevant to justifying their actions.
No white hats and black hats here.
You have your partisan blinkers on: your worst trait.
And that's from someone who actually quite likes you.0 -
Indeed.Roger said:
WorryingCasino_Royale said:
Wow. I actually agree with you.Roger said:We are in a climate where putting your arm around someone's shoulder twenty years ago or asking someone out for a drink with a twinkle in your eye is now so heinous an offense that I believe the policemen actually believed exposing Damien Green was a public service.
Until we reset our values and stop this guilty until proved innoceent in anything relating to inter personal relationships episodes like Damien Green will happen repeatedly.
....Or perhaps this'll be the turning point we desperately need0 -
I thought it was a female body partJonathan said:
Isn't that a coffee machine?Recidivist said:
And we all remember good old Flavius.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Jonathan, Flavius Phocas ended up as emperor. Just because a thing happens doesn't mean it's good or just.
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Some massive hits from Sam Burgess in the rugby.0
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Ishmael_Z said:
a site you look at which tries to open porny popups is probably not Gardener's World Online in the first place.
Does nobody on here ever try to access live sports streaming on line? (when they don't have Sky/BTSport etc etc). Virtually impossible to go looking for it without risking opening up unrelated popups.0 -
Please, rugby league is not rugby.FrancisUrquhart said:Some massive hits from Sam Burgess in the rugby.
Rugby union is the only proper, pure rugby.
No big girl's blouse fifth tackle rule in proper rugby.0 -
Looking forward to that. Really enjoyed "I, Tonya" too about skater Tonya Harding. You think that these clowns she was surrounded by must be cartoons - until over the credits, you see actual footage of them - and have to shake your head. The amount of casual violence she endured is quite shocking, as is the way that she got marked down on her performances just for coming from the wrong side of the tracks. An especially fine turn as her mother by Allison Janney (aka The West Wing's CJ).Roger said:Incidentally the film 'Battle of the Sexes' about the tennis match between Billie Jean King and Bobby Riggs is surprisingly watchable.
A very well written script by Simon Beaufoy (from Yorkshire!) and brilliantlly acted it turned out to be everything I wasn't expecting. Apart from too much focus on Billie Jean's lesbianism it was a wonderful critique of early feminism, gender equality, American consumerism, gambling and an interesting history of 70's tennis.
Although Death of Stalin is head and shoulders above anything else this year - so far.0 -
I hope you support the prosecution of all those involved with the stolen data of the Paradise Papers and with the parliamentary expenses scandal too. Stolen information is stolen information.JonnyJimmy said:I'm pretty sure that I made this point when I was drunk last night, but heads really should be rolling at the BBC over this. They are accomplices to whatever crimes these bent cops have committed. They should have sent that interview straight to the police, and let someone else take the risk of reporting it. What they've done in spreading it around the world is an absolute disgrace.
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Call yourself a proppa northerner and you don’t think rugby league is the real game of rugby...tut tut tut.TheScreamingEagles said:
Please, rugby league is not rugby.FrancisUrquhart said:Some massive hits from Sam Burgess in the rugby.
Rugby union is the only proper, pure rugby.
No big girl's blouse fifth tackle rule in proper rugby.0 -
Australia look very good again.TheScreamingEagles said:
Please, rugby league is not rugby.FrancisUrquhart said:Some massive hits from Sam Burgess in the rugby.
Rugby union is the only proper, pure rugby.
No big girl's blouse fifth tackle rule in proper rugby.0 -
Yes, requires good calibration of your adblocker for both black and white lists, and careful closing of frames and pop ups in the right order to avoid the spam.alex. said:
Does nobody on here ever try to access live sports streaming on line? (when they don't have Sky/BTSport etc etc). Virtually impossible to go looking for it without risking opening up unrelated popups.Ishmael_Z said:a site you look at which tries to open porny popups is probably not Gardener's World Online in the first place.
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On topic, if I had to choose to push either Bob Quick or Mark Reckless in to a nest of vipers, I'd be pushing Bob Quick everytime.0
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Khawaja gone0
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From a previous thread but relevant here:-
I find the behaviour of the retired policeman in the Green quite extraordinary. Keeping a police notebook is a disgrace. This was not his personal property but police property, potentially containing relevant evidence. The fact that it has been taken means that its probative evidence is nil. The chain of evidence has been broken. No-one can have any confidence that what is written in it was written at the time, was accurate and has not been tampered with.
Second, investigating what is on a computer, who accessed it and whem requires a very accurate and forensically tight investigation in order to maintain the integrity of the evidence. It is not a simple matter of opening a computer and rooting round to have a look. The mere act of doing that, if not done properly, with an audit trail of what is done, risks destroying evidence, such as the metadata contained on the computer itself.
The likelihood of this being done, given that the focus of the original investigation was not pornography, is not high.
So the information being put out in the public domain risks damaging Green’s character with no real possibility of the allegations being proved or disproved. It is quite disgraceful for the police to leak details of an investigation and the justification that this is to protect or defend a senior officer really does not stack up. There was no public interest in revealing the information in the first place.
It does seem to me that the target here may not be Green himself but his close ally, Mrs May, who was not seen as the police’s friend and spoke some hard truths to them. Attacking one of her few allies, especially at a time when she is perceived as weak, might be one way of getting their revenge.
Very poor and very worrying behaviour by some in the police.
The interview with senior Manchester policeman on Radio 4 this morning shows that senior policemen, some of them, do get this.0 -
And there’s a massive difference between what is in the public interest, and what the public might find interesting.foxinsoxuk said:
I hope you support the prosecution of all those involved with the stolen data of the Paradise Papers and with the parliamentary expenses scandal too. Stolen information is stolen information.JonnyJimmy said:I'm pretty sure that I made this point when I was drunk last night, but heads really should be rolling at the BBC over this. They are accomplices to whatever crimes these bent cops have committed. They should have sent that interview straight to the police, and let someone else take the risk of reporting it. What they've done in spreading it around the world is an absolute disgrace.
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On topic, from today's Times.
A cabinet source said: “Damian might have survived if this was dealt with immediately but the longer this is drawn out, the more there is a sense this is unsustainable. There are now so many allegations out there, it is hard to work out how they will be dealt with.”
Another Tory source said that at least one senior aide in Downing Street thought that Mr Green was likely to have to go. “There are senior figures in No 10 who think he should resign,” they said.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/cabinet-split-over-damian-green-after-police-porn-claims-h7gglljtg0 -
The bill the US senate voted on was a unsearchable PDF with handwritten inserts, arrows and the like
https://twitter.com/SenatorMenendez/status/936739835880136705?s=170 -
The Times has been ridiculously partisan on this matter. No objectivity on display whatsoever.TheScreamingEagles said:On topic, from today's Times.
A cabinet source said: “Damian might have survived if this was dealt with immediately but the longer this is drawn out, the more there is a sense this is unsustainable. There are now so many allegations out there, it is hard to work out how they will be dealt with.”
Another Tory source said that at least one senior aide in Downing Street thought that Mr Green was likely to have to go. “There are senior figures in No 10 who think he should resign,” they said.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/cabinet-split-over-damian-green-after-police-porn-claims-h7gglljtg0 -
And you call yourself a Yorkshireman!TheScreamingEagles said:
Please, rugby league is not rugby.FrancisUrquhart said:Some massive hits from Sam Burgess in the rugby.
Rugby union is the only proper, pure rugby.
No big girl's blouse fifth tackle rule in proper rugby.0 -
Oh behave, they've been slaughtering the police in today's edition (and in previous editions as well)MarqueeMark said:
The Times has been ridiculously partisan on this matter. No objectivity on display whatsoever.TheScreamingEagles said:On topic, from today's Times.
A cabinet source said: “Damian might have survived if this was dealt with immediately but the longer this is drawn out, the more there is a sense this is unsustainable. There are now so many allegations out there, it is hard to work out how they will be dealt with.”
Another Tory source said that at least one senior aide in Downing Street thought that Mr Green was likely to have to go. “There are senior figures in No 10 who think he should resign,” they said.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/cabinet-split-over-damian-green-after-police-porn-claims-h7gglljtg
Here's some more of the rozzer bashing articles from today
MPs attack police over computer porn leaks amid Damian Green row - https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/mps-attack-police-over-computer-porn-leaks-damian-green-6glqr09zt
Damian Green pornography affair reopens old Plebgate wounds for Tories - https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/damian-green-pornography-affair-reopens-old-andrew-mitchell-plebgate-wounds-9nw3zwmmf
Matthew Parris - Police are waging a vendetta to destroy Green. Whether the deputy PM downloaded porn is less of a moral outrage than the sinister behaviour of former Met officers
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/police-are-waging-a-vendetta-to-destroy-green-wxr296jgd0 -
There’s a group of people who clearly want Green out, in order to destabilise the government.MarqueeMark said:
The Times has been ridiculously partisan on this matter. No objectivity on display whatsoever.TheScreamingEagles said:On topic, from today's Times.
A cabinet source said: “Damian might have survived if this was dealt with immediately but the longer this is drawn out, the more there is a sense this is unsustainable. There are now so many allegations out there, it is hard to work out how they will be dealt with.”
Another Tory source said that at least one senior aide in Downing Street thought that Mr Green was likely to have to go. “There are senior figures in No 10 who think he should resign,” they said.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/cabinet-split-over-damian-green-after-police-porn-claims-h7gglljtg
I’d take a good guess that ‘friends’ of a certain newspaper editor former politician might have something to do with it, or possibly ‘friends’ of a former DPP who knows the case well and now has a somewhat more political job...0 -
Though this did come to attention because the Deputy PM is being investigated for posssible inappropriate sexual behaviour. Public Interest is a reasonable defence.Sandpit said:
And there’s a massive difference between what is in the public interest, and what the public might find interesting.foxinsoxuk said:
I hope you support the prosecution of all those involved with the stolen data of the Paradise Papers and with the parliamentary expenses scandal too. Stolen information is stolen information.JonnyJimmy said:I'm pretty sure that I made this point when I was drunk last night, but heads really should be rolling at the BBC over this. They are accomplices to whatever crimes these bent cops have committed. They should have sent that interview straight to the police, and let someone else take the risk of reporting it. What they've done in spreading it around the world is an absolute disgrace.
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And the reality is here's yesterday's articles in The Standard about Green.Sandpit said:There’s a group of people who clearly want Green out, in order to destabilise the government.
I’d take a good guess that ‘friends’ of a certain newspaper editor former politician might have something to do with it, or possibly ‘friends’ of a former DPP who knows the case well and now has a somewhat more political job...
Ex-police officers who leaked Damian Green allegations 'breached code of conduct', former Government legal chief says - https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/expolice-officers-who-leaked-damian-green-allegations-breached-code-of-conduct-former-government-a3708476.html
Damian Green and Scotland Yard faced questions today after a retired detective claimed he found “thousands” of pornographic images on the Cabinet minister’s computer.
The allegation heaped further pressure on Theresa May’s embattled deputy. However, it also left Scotland Yard in the spotlight about its handling of personal data obtained in investigations.
Lord Carlile, the former watchdog over anti-terror laws, called on Met chief Cressida Dick to exert her “authority” and take control of the force’s handling of the controversy.
He told the Standard it was “unacceptable” for former officers to dredge up old evidence to embarrass people. Ex-Cabinet minister Andrew Mitchell said it was an attempt to “blacken” Mr Green’s name.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/tory-war-with-met-police-over-thousands-of-pornographic-images-on-computer-of-damian-green-a3707376.html
'Hounding' Damian Green over pornography allegations 'completely wrong', MP Andrew Mitchell says https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/hounding-damian-green-over-pornography-allegations-completely-wrong-mp-says-a3707061.html0 -
I remember the good old days when the plod only fitted up protesters, trade unionists, football fans, darkies and Irishmen. They shouldnt be allowed to fit up privileged white men.TheScreamingEagles said:
Oh behave, they've been slaughtering the police in today's edition (and in previous editions as well)MarqueeMark said:
The Times has been ridiculously partisan on this matter. No objectivity on display whatsoever.TheScreamingEagles said:On topic, from today's Times.
A cabinet source said: “Damian might have survived if this was dealt with immediately but the longer this is drawn out, the more there is a sense this is unsustainable. There are now so many allegations out there, it is hard to work out how they will be dealt with.”
Another Tory source said that at least one senior aide in Downing Street thought that Mr Green was likely to have to go. “There are senior figures in No 10 who think he should resign,” they said.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/cabinet-split-over-damian-green-after-police-porn-claims-h7gglljtg
Here's some more of the rozzer bashing articles from today
MPs attack police over computer porn leaks amid Damian Green row - https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/mps-attack-police-over-computer-porn-leaks-damian-green-6glqr09zt
Damian Green pornography affair reopens old Plebgate wounds for Tories - https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/damian-green-pornography-affair-reopens-old-andrew-mitchell-plebgate-wounds-9nw3zwmmf
Matthew Parris - Police are waging a vendetta to destroy Green. Whether the deputy PM downloaded porn is less of a moral outrage than the sinister behaviour of former Met officers
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/police-are-waging-a-vendetta-to-destroy-green-wxr296jgd0 -
On the question of dishonesty, you cannot say that: trying to assess whether there was pornography on a computer, when it was downloaded or whether it was viewed and by whom is not an easy task. For instance, if say Mr Green was speaking Parliamentary debates at the time when the computer shows images being viewed then who was viewing them? Someone else who had access? Very very difficult to determine this at the time let alone a decade later. Could there have been a virus?IanB2 said:Second.
Yet he appears to have been dishonest.
And the argument that we need have no standards because it's "their business" and they are subject to election is absurd - particularly given our voting system with so many MPs well sheltered from normal electoral pressure.
It is simply not possible to say with any certainty whether or not Mr Green was lying when he made his original statement. Look at that statement and you will see how both his statement and the police’s original revelations could be consistent with each other. And why were those original revelations made? No conceivable public interest in doing so. There was no suggestion of a breach of any law. And yet this Mr Lewis is now claiming that he is a whistleblower and entitled to breach confidentiality on the basis of Green’s dishonesty when that has never been established in the first place and when the public interet defence is thin at best. Furthermore, how much credit should one give to Mr Lewis’s claims when he has admitted taking potentially relevant evidence without authority and not complying with instructions?
Second, the police investigate breaches of the criminal law. Disciplinary matters are not for them. Nor standards of moral decency. It is not that there should be no standards but that it is not the job of the police to establish or monitor them let alone use them as a sword to defend a colleague.0 -
Mr Herdson is suggesting that it is OK for a cabinet minister to lie if the subject of the lie got into the public domain inappropriately. Sorry, but no. A lie is a lie, and if a cabinet minister is found to have been lying then they have to go.
While I agree that the ex-rozzers have a case to answer over this, I do not like the way that Tories are trying to use this to deflect from the actions of Green.0 -
It sounds like you're enjoying this. Sad..foxinsoxuk said:
I remember the good old days when the plod only fitted up protesters, trade unionists, football fans, darkies and Irishmen. They shouldnt be allowed to fit up privileged white men.TheScreamingEagles said:
Oh behave, they've been slaughtering the police in today's edition (and in previous editions as well)MarqueeMark said:
The Times has been ridiculously partisan on this matter. No objectivity on display whatsoever.TheScreamingEagles said:On topic, from today's Times.
A cabinet source said: “Damian might have survived if this was dealt with immediately but the longer this is drawn out, the more there is a sense this is unsustainable. There are now so many allegations out there, it is hard to work out how they will be dealt with.”
Another Tory source said that at least one senior aide in Downing Street thought that Mr Green was likely to have to go. “There are senior figures in No 10 who think he should resign,” they said.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/cabinet-split-over-damian-green-after-police-porn-claims-h7gglljtg
Here's some more of the rozzer bashing articles from today
MPs attack police over computer porn leaks amid Damian Green row - https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/mps-attack-police-over-computer-porn-leaks-damian-green-6glqr09zt
Damian Green pornography affair reopens old Plebgate wounds for Tories - https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/damian-green-pornography-affair-reopens-old-andrew-mitchell-plebgate-wounds-9nw3zwmmf
Matthew Parris - Police are waging a vendetta to destroy Green. Whether the deputy PM downloaded porn is less of a moral outrage than the sinister behaviour of former Met officers
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/police-are-waging-a-vendetta-to-destroy-green-wxr296jgd
0 -
Jimmy winding up Smith - pair of kids but quite funny0
-
It seems to me that dealing with this as "Breaches of Data Protection" is a little cotton-batting. Surely we are into Malicious Communucations if not Misconduct in a Public Office - though that would be a tricky argument to make.
0 -
As tough a 40 minutes as you'll see in sport.FrancisUrquhart said:Some massive hits from Sam Burgess in the rugby.
0 -
At the present time only Green is in a public office, so surely the last one falls regarding the police officers?MattW said:It seems to me that dealing with this as "Breaches of Data Protection" is a little cotton-batting. Surely we are into Malicious Communucations if not Misconduct in a Public Office - though that would be a tricky argument to make.
The allegations against Green are in many ways a separate issue. Indeed as Sandy notes, one of the things these officers have done is deflect attention away from them.0 -
Absolutely right. Damien Green is a human being like everyone else. He should not have to resign for having legal pornography on his computer. This is a politically motivated witch hunt0
-
Ahem....You might want to qualify that “virtually everyone” by saying “ virtually every male”......Casino_Royale said:
In the real world, virtually everyone lies about sex and virtually everyone watches porn. And I wouldn't believe those that said they didn't.Ally_B said:I concur with your view Nigelb. As David says, under these circumstances it isn't a sackable offence. Nor, in this case, do I think it appropriate for ex-Policemen to comment on what was found at that time. It does have the feel of Plebgate to it. Green shouldn't have done what is alleged on a work's computer but I'm afraid it reinforces my opinion of most politicians as individuals who are out of touch with the real world and I'll leave it at that.
Next.0 -
I feel bruised and battered just watching it!Pulpstar said:
As tough a 40 minutes as you'll see in sport.FrancisUrquhart said:Some massive hits from Sam Burgess in the rugby.
0 -
As do I. RL is repetitive, boring and has all (well, most) of the interesting bits of rugby stripped out.SandyRentool said:
And you call yourself a Yorkshireman!TheScreamingEagles said:
Please, rugby league is not rugby.FrancisUrquhart said:Some massive hits from Sam Burgess in the rugby.
Rugby union is the only proper, pure rugby.
No big girl's blouse fifth tackle rule in proper rugby.0 -
No, but while the ex police have acted badly, so has Green. No one is going to come out of this looking good. I am not calling for any sackings or resignations. I am happy for the Cabinet office to investigate.JonnyJimmy said:
It sounds like you're enjoying this. Sad..foxinsoxuk said:
I remember the good old days when the plod only fitted up protesters, trade unionists, football fans, darkies and Irishmen. They shouldnt be allowed to fit up privileged white men.TheScreamingEagles said:
Oh behave, they've been slaughtering the police in today's edition (and in previous editions as well)MarqueeMark said:
The Times has been ridiculously partisan on this matter. No objectivity on display whatsoever.TheScreamingEagles said:On topic, from today's Times.
A cabinet source said: “Damian might have survived if this was dealt with immediately but the longer this is drawn out, the more there is a sense this is unsustainable. There are now so many allegations out there, it is hard to work out how they will be dealt with.”
Another Tory source said that at least one senior aide in Downing Street thought that Mr Green was likely to have to go. “There are senior figures in No 10 who think he should resign,” they said.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/cabinet-split-over-damian-green-after-police-porn-claims-h7gglljtg
Here's some more of the rozzer bashing articles from today
MPs attack police over computer porn leaks amid Damian Green row - https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/mps-attack-police-over-computer-porn-leaks-damian-green-6glqr09zt
Damian Green pornography affair reopens old Plebgate wounds for Tories - https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/damian-green-pornography-affair-reopens-old-andrew-mitchell-plebgate-wounds-9nw3zwmmf
Matthew Parris - Police are waging a vendetta to destroy Green. Whether the deputy PM downloaded porn is less of a moral outrage than the sinister behaviour of former Met officers
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/police-are-waging-a-vendetta-to-destroy-green-wxr296jgd
I am increasingly concerned that sensible Tories are joining in attacks on the institutions of democracy, including not only the police, but also the judicary, parliament, and even professions like my own, and Civil Service, but also the teachers and universities. Formerly these were only under attack from the Trotskyite left.
It doesn't bode well for the stability of our democratic infrastructure.0 -
On his work computer? I disagree, he might well have to resign if the complaint is proved.stevef said:Absolutely right. Damien Green is a human being like everyone else. He should not have to resign for having legal pornography on his computer. This is a politically motivated witch hunt
But, we have a separate issue here: (1) it was obtained by the police under highly dubious circumstances (2) it was not reported to the Parlaimentary authorities at the time (probably correctly as it happens given the circumstances) (3) it is now being used in a way that appears unlawful to damage him over an unrelated matter in such a way that it could appear to be motivated by malice.
You don't have to be an anarchist or a Tory to say the way the police have behaved absolutely stinks.0 -
I presume by RL you are talking about Radiohead’s track “lift”.david_herdson said:
As do I. RL is repetitive, boring and has all (well, most) of the interesting bits stripped out.SandyRentool said:
And you call yourself a Yorkshireman!TheScreamingEagles said:
Please, rugby league is not rugby.FrancisUrquhart said:Some massive hits from Sam Burgess in the rugby.
Rugby union is the only proper, pure rugby.
No big girl's blouse fifth tackle rule in proper rugby.0 -
You've no idea how Green has behaved. It's quite possible he has been set up.foxinsoxuk said:
No, but while the ex police have acted badly, so has Green. No one is going to come out of this looking good. I am not calling for any sackings or resignations. I am haply for the Cabinet office to investigate.JonnyJimmy said:
It sounds like you're enjoying this. Sad..foxinsoxuk said:
I remember the good old days when the plod only fitted up protesters, trade unionists, football fans, darkies and Irishmen. They shouldnt be allowed to fit up privileged white men.TheScreamingEagles said:
Oh behave, they've been slaughtering the police in today's edition (and in previous editions as well)MarqueeMark said:
The Times has been ridiculously partisan on this matter. No objectivity on display whatsoever.TheScreamingEagles said:On topic, from today's Times.
A cabinet source said: “Damian might have survived if this was dealt with immediately but the longer this is drawn out, the more there is a sense this is unsustainable. There are now so many allegations out there, it is hard to work out how they will be dealt with.”
Another Tory source said that at least one senior aide in Downing Street thought that Mr Green was likely to have to go. “There are senior figures in No 10 who think he should resign,” they said.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/cabinet-split-over-damian-green-after-police-porn-claims-h7gglljtg
Here's some more of the rozzer bashing articles from today
MPs attack police over computer porn leaks amid Damian Green row - https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/mps-attack-police-over-computer-porn-leaks-damian-green-6glqr09zt
Damian Green pornography affair reopens old Plebgate wounds for Tories - https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/damian-green-pornography-affair-reopens-old-andrew-mitchell-plebgate-wounds-9nw3zwmmf
Matthew Parris - Police are waging a vendetta to destroy Green. Whether the deputy PM downloaded porn is less of a moral outrage than the sinister behaviour of former Met officers
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/police-are-waging-a-vendetta-to-destroy-green-wxr296jgd
I am increasingly concerned that sensible Tories are joining in attacks on the institutions of democracy, including not only the police, but also the judicary, parliament, and even professions like my own, and Civil Service, but also the teachers and universities. Formerly thesewere only under attack from the Trotskyite left.
It doesn't bode well for the stability of our democratic infrastructure.0 -
There are lots of legal things which are totally inappropriate at work. The fact that this is the houses of parliament and not B&Q should be irrelevant.stevef said:Absolutely right. Damien Green is a human being like everyone else. He should not have to resign for having legal pornography on his computer. This is a politically motivated witch hunt
0 -
If you do not agree with these so called institutions of course they will come under attack and many willfoxinsoxuk said:
No, but while the ex police have acted badly, so has Green. No one is going to come out of this looking good. I am not calling for any sackings or resignations. I am haply for the Cabinet office to investigate.JonnyJimmy said:
It sounds like you're enjoying this. Sad..foxinsoxuk said:
I remember the good old days when the plod only fitted up protesters, trade unionists, football fans, darkies and Irishmen. They shouldnt be allowed to fit up privileged white men.TheScreamingEagles said:
Oh behave, they've been slaughtering the police in today's edition (and in previous editions as well)MarqueeMark said:
The Times has been ridiculously partisan on this matter. No objectivity on display whatsoever.TheScreamingEagles said:On topic, from today's Times.
A cabinet source said: “Damian might have survived if this was dealt with immediately but the longer this is drawn out, the more there is a sense this is unsustainable. There are now so many allegations out there, it is hard to work out how they will be dealt with.”
Another Tory source said that at least one senior aide in Downing Street thought that Mr Green was likely to have to go. “There are senior figures in No 10 who think he should resign,” they said.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/cabinet-split-over-damian-green-after-police-porn-claims-h7gglljtg
Here's some more of the rozzer bashing articles from today
MPs attack police over computer porn leaks amid Damian Green row - https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/mps-attack-police-over-computer-porn-leaks-damian-green-6glqr09zt
Damian Green pornography affair reopens old Plebgate wounds for Tories - https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/damian-green-pornography-affair-reopens-old-andrew-mitchell-plebgate-wounds-9nw3zwmmf
Matthew Parris - Police are waging a vendetta to destroy Green. Whether the deputy PM downloaded porn is less of a moral outrage than the sinister behaviour of former Met officers
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/police-are-waging-a-vendetta-to-destroy-green-wxr296jgd
I am increasingly concerned that sensible Tories are joining in attacks on the institutions of democracy, including not only the police, but also the judicary, parliament, and even professions like my own, and Civil Service, but also the teachers and universities. Formerly thesewere only under attack from the Trotskyite left.
It doesn't bode well for the stability of our democratic infrastructure.0 -
So you prefer 5 minutes of collapsing scrums followed by kick and clap, kick and clap.david_herdson said:
As do I. RL is repetitive, boring and has all (well, most) of the interesting bits of rugby stripped out.SandyRentool said:
And you call yourself a Yorkshireman!TheScreamingEagles said:
Please, rugby league is not rugby.FrancisUrquhart said:Some massive hits from Sam Burgess in the rugby.
Rugby union is the only proper, pure rugby.
No big girl's blouse fifth tackle rule in proper rugby.0 -
I do remember some TV report in which it was claimed (accurately, I suspect) that 100% of 13-15 year old boys with smart phones or internet access watched porn. The (female) presenter looked shocked and started wibbling as to whether that just referred to certain groups. She was then told no, it was all of them. My guess was that she had a teenage son.Cyclefree said:
Ahem....You might want to qualify that “virtually everyone” by saying “ virtually every male”......Casino_Royale said:
In the real world, virtually everyone lies about sex and virtually everyone watches porn. And I wouldn't believe those that said they didn't.Ally_B said:I concur with your view Nigelb. As David says, under these circumstances it isn't a sackable offence. Nor, in this case, do I think it appropriate for ex-Policemen to comment on what was found at that time. It does have the feel of Plebgate to it. Green shouldn't have done what is alleged on a work's computer but I'm afraid it reinforces my opinion of most politicians as individuals who are out of touch with the real world and I'll leave it at that.
Next.0 -
All aided , abetted and broadcast by the BBC!ydoethur said:
Whatever the ins and outs of whatever they did or did not find on Green's computer, it would appear to me that actually what the ex-police officers have done here is illegal. If they have retained records not germane to the initial investigation, and then made them public, that appears prima facie to be a double breach of the data protection act.Sandpit said:It’s way out of order for retired policemen to have kept their notes and then come out a decade later to say they found stuff that was embarrassing but not illegal.
0 -
Perhaps sensible Tories feel they're coming under attack from some of these institutions.foxinsoxuk said:
No, but while the ex police have acted badly, so has Green. No one is going to come out of this looking good. I am not calling for any sackings or resignations. I am happy for the Cabinet office to investigate.JonnyJimmy said:
It sounds like you're enjoying this. Sad..foxinsoxuk said:
I remember the good old days when the plod only fitted up protesters, trade unionists, football fans, darkies and Irishmen. They shouldnt be allowed to fit up privileged white men.TheScreamingEagles said:
Oh behave, they've been slaughtering the police in today's edition (and in previous editions as well)MarqueeMark said:
The Times has been ridiculously partisan on this matter. No objectivity on display whatsoever.TheScreamingEagles said:On topic, from today's Times.
A cabinet source said: “Damian might have survived if this was dealt with immediately but the longer this is drawn out, the more there is a sense this is unsustainable. There are now so many allegations out there, it is hard to work out how they will be dealt with.”
Another Tory source said that at least one senior aide in Downing Street thought that Mr Green was likely to have to go. “There are senior figures in No 10 who think he should resign,” they said.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/cabinet-split-over-damian-green-after-police-porn-claims-h7gglljtg
Here's some more of the rozzer bashing articles from today
MPs attack police over computer porn leaks amid Damian Green row - https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/mps-attack-police-over-computer-porn-leaks-damian-green-6glqr09zt
Damian Green pornography affair reopens old Plebgate wounds for Tories - https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/damian-green-pornography-affair-reopens-old-andrew-mitchell-plebgate-wounds-9nw3zwmmf
Matthew Parris - Police are waging a vendetta to destroy Green. Whether the deputy PM downloaded porn is less of a moral outrage than the sinister behaviour of former Met officers
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/police-are-waging-a-vendetta-to-destroy-green-wxr296jgd
I am increasingly concerned that sensible Tories are joining in attacks on the institutions of democracy, including not only the police, but also the judicary, parliament, and even professions like my own, and Civil Service, but also the teachers and universities. Formerly these were only under attack from the Trotskyite left.
It doesn't bode well for the stability of our democratic infrastructure.0 -
Like I have said, I am not calling for resignation and happy for the Cabinet Office to investigate, as indeed is Mr Green.JonnyJimmy said:
You've no idea how Green has behaved. It's quite possible he has been set up.foxinsoxuk said:
No, but while the ex police have acted badly, so has Green. No one is going to come out of this looking good. I am not calling for any sackings or resignations. I am haply for the Cabinet office to investigate.JonnyJimmy said:
It sounds like you're enjoying this. Sad..foxinsoxuk said:
I remember the good old days when the plod only fitted up protesters, trade unionists, football fans, darkies and Irishmen. They shouldnt be allowed to fit up privileged white men.TheScreamingEagles said:
Oh behave, they've been slaughtering the police in today's edition (and in previous editions as well)MarqueeMark said:
The Times has been ridiculously partisan on this matter. No objectivity on display whatsoever.TheScreamingEagles said:On topic, from today's Times.
A cabinet source said: “Damian might have survived if this was dealt with immediately but the longer this is drawn out, the more there is a sense this is unsustainable. There are now so many allegations out there, it is hard to work out how they will be dealt with.”
Another Tory source said that at least one senior aide in Downing Street thought that Mr Green was likely to have to go. “There are senior figures in No 10 who think he should resign,” they said.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/cabinet-split-over-damian-green-after-police-porn-claims-h7gglljtg
Here's some more of the rozzer bashing articles from today
MPs attack
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/police-are-waging-a-vendetta-to-destroy-green-wxr296jgd
I am increasingly concerned that sensible Tories are joining in attacks on the institutions of democracy, including not only the police, but also the judicary, parliament, and even professions like my own, and Civil Service, but also the teachers and universities. Formerly thesewere only under attack from the Trotskyite left.
It doesn't bode well for the stability of our democratic infrastructure.0 -
Mr. Sandpit, thanks (been AFK, hence slow reply). The reliability stats did strike me, hence the inclusion of Perez/Ocon in the driver graph. Worth bearing in mind for next year too.
Miss Cyclefree, hmm. I do think women rather overplay their virtue in such cases. Not to mention, they're the gender supporting the sex toy industry.0 -
Paddington 2 for me...MarqueeMark said:
Looking forward to that. Really enjoyed "I, Tonya" too about skater Tonya Harding. You think that these clowns she was surrounded by must be cartoons - until over the credits, you see actual footage of them - and have to shake your head. The amount of casual violence she endured is quite shocking, as is the way that she got marked down on her performances just for coming from the wrong side of the tracks. An especially fine turn as her mother by Allison Janney (aka The West Wing's CJ).Roger said:Incidentally the film 'Battle of the Sexes' about the tennis match between Billie Jean King and Bobby Riggs is surprisingly watchable.
A very well written script by Simon Beaufoy (from Yorkshire!) and brilliantlly acted it turned out to be everything I wasn't expecting. Apart from too much focus on Billie Jean's lesbianism it was a wonderful critique of early feminism, gender equality, American consumerism, gambling and an interesting history of 70's tennis.
Although Death of Stalin is head and shoulders above anything else this year - so far.0 -
for the Times, as with some others, it is all part of the bigger strategy to stop Brexit by destabilising the government.MarqueeMark said:
The Times has been ridiculously partisan on this matter. No objectivity on display whatsoever.TheScreamingEagles said:On topic, from today's Times.
A cabinet source said: “Damian might have survived if this was dealt with immediately but the longer this is drawn out, the more there is a sense this is unsustainable. There are now so many allegations out there, it is hard to work out how they will be dealt with.”
Another Tory source said that at least one senior aide in Downing Street thought that Mr Green was likely to have to go. “There are senior figures in No 10 who think he should resign,” they said.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/cabinet-split-over-damian-green-after-police-porn-claims-h7gglljtg0 -
He won't be resigning over the porn. If he does resign it will be if he has lied about it.stevef said:Absolutely right. Damien Green is a human being like everyone else. He should not have to resign for having legal pornography on his computer. This is a politically motivated witch hunt
0 -
As someone pointed out upthread, the toffs are only getting a dose of what less advantaged sections of our community have experienced for years. Ask, for example, Ricky Tomlinson.ydoethur said:
On his work computer? I disagree, he might well have to resign if the complaint is proved.stevef said:Absolutely right. Damien Green is a human being like everyone else. He should not have to resign for having legal pornography on his computer. This is a politically motivated witch hunt
But, we have a separate issue here: (1) it was obtained by the police under highly dubious circumstances (2) it was not reported to the Parlaimentary authorities at the time (probably correctly as it happens given the circumstances) (3) it is now being used in a way that appears unlawful to damage him over an unrelated matter in such a way that it could appear to be motivated by malice.
You don't have to be an anarchist or a Tory to say the way the police have behaved absolutely stinks.0 -
No rational employer would be investigating an allegation that someone had looked at porn 9 years ago, especially when the allegation came from someone with a grudge.eristdoof said:
There are lots of legal things which are totally inappropriate at work. The fact that this is the houses of parliament and not B&Q should be irrelevant.stevef said:Absolutely right. Damien Green is a human being like everyone else. He should not have to resign for having legal pornography on his computer. This is a politically motivated witch hunt
0 -
Interesting comments from Cameron that he regrets not being able to implement his £72 000 cap on care costs for dementia so an insurance model would develop.
Cameron is now President of Alzheimer's UK.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-422071000 -
Or Blair Peach. Or winston Silcott, or the Orgreave pickets...OldKingCole said:
As someone pointed out upthread, the toffs are only getting a dose of what less advantaged sections of our community have experienced for years. Ask, for example, Ricky Tomlinson.ydoethur said:
On his work computer? I disagree, he might well have to resign if the complaint is proved.stevef said:Absolutely right. Damien Green is a human being like everyone else. He should not have to resign for having legal pornography on his computer. This is a politically motivated witch hunt
But, we have a separate issue here: (1) it was obtained by the police under highly dubious circumstances (2) it was not reported to the Parlaimentary authorities at the time (probably correctly as it happens given the circumstances) (3) it is now being used in a way that appears unlawful to damage him over an unrelated matter in such a way that it could appear to be motivated by malice.
You don't have to be an anarchist or a Tory to say the way the police have behaved absolutely stinks.0 -
Did somebody say rugby league is boring...some incredible play the last 5 mins.0
-
And what rubbish about "concern" for our institutions. You're prepared to ignore the obviously disgraceful behaviour of the bent coppers because it damages the government, and increases the chances of Corbyn and no Brexit. You're making an utter arse of yourself.foxinsoxuk said:
No, but while the ex police have acted badly, so has Green. No one is going to come out of this looking good. I am not calling for any sackings or resignations. I am happy for the Cabinet office to investigate.JonnyJimmy said:
It sounds like you're enjoying this. Sad..foxinsoxuk said:
I remember the good old days when the plod only fitted up protesters, trade unionists, football fans, darkies and Irishmen. They shouldnt be allowed to fit up privileged white men.TheScreamingEagles said:
Oh behave, they've been slaughtering the police in today's edition (and in previous editions as well)MarqueeMark said:
The Times has been ridiculously partisan on this matter. No objectivity on display whatsoever.
Here's some more of the rozzer bashing articles from today
MPs attack police over computer porn leaks amid Damian Green row - https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/mps-attack-police-over-computer-porn-leaks-damian-green-6glqr09zt
Damian Green pornography affair reopens old Plebgate wounds for Tories - https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/damian-green-pornography-affair-reopens-old-andrew-mitchell-plebgate-wounds-9nw3zwmmf
Matthew Parris - Police are waging a vendetta to destroy Green. Whether the deputy PM downloaded porn is less of a moral outrage than the sinister behaviour of former Met officers
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/police-are-waging-a-vendetta-to-destroy-green-wxr296jgd
I am increasingly concerned that sensible Tories are joining in attacks on the institutions of democracy, including not only the police, but also the judicary, parliament, and even professions like my own, and Civil Service, but also the teachers and universities. Formerly these were only under attack from the Trotskyite left.
It doesn't bode well for the stability of our democratic infrastructure.
0 -
Big, big call in RL. That was a try for me.0
-
Rare praise from Trump for Mitch McConnell and Orrin Hatch after they pass his tax cut plan.
https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/9368648402403983370 -
Australia not finding it easy. Tough game.FrancisUrquhart said:Did somebody say rugby league is boring...some incredible play the last 5 mins.
0 -
The Overton Wicket column has moved.0
-
Winston Silcott has an extremely unpleasant criminal record. He is no martyr.foxinsoxuk said:
Or Blair Peach. Or winston Silcott, or the Orgreave pickets...OldKingCole said:
As someone pointed out upthread, the toffs are only getting a dose of what less advantaged sections of our community have experienced for years. Ask, for example, Ricky Tomlinson.ydoethur said:
On his work computer? I disagree, he might well have to resign if the complaint is proved.stevef said:Absolutely right. Damien Green is a human being like everyone else. He should not have to resign for having legal pornography on his computer. This is a politically motivated witch hunt
But, we have a separate issue here: (1) it was obtained by the police under highly dubious circumstances (2) it was not reported to the Parlaimentary authorities at the time (probably correctly as it happens given the circumstances) (3) it is now being used in a way that appears unlawful to damage him over an unrelated matter in such a way that it could appear to be motivated by malice.
You don't have to be an anarchist or a Tory to say the way the police have behaved absolutely stinks.0 -
If people want to nationalise energy companies they can vote for Corbyn Labour who are committed to that policy, Tories are not going to deny them a choice of energy company.Pong said:https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/energy/2017/12/spark-energy-customers-chased-for-payment-by-debt-collectors-before-bills-are-due
Time to nationalise the energy companies. Put an end to this bullsh*t.
That's what 77% of the public wants.
Come on tories. Do it.
Take back control.0 -
.
It’s still not rugby though. It’s like playing Test Match cricket at night.FrancisUrquhart said:Did somebody say rugby league is boring...some incredible play the last 5 mins.
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I do not think it is OK for a Minister to lie.SandyRentool said:Mr Herdson is suggesting that it is OK for a cabinet minister to lie if the subject of the lie got into the public domain inappropriately. Sorry, but no. A lie is a lie, and if a cabinet minister is found to have been lying then they have to go.
While I agree that the ex-rozzers have a case to answer over this, I do not like the way that Tories are trying to use this to deflect from the actions of Green.
But the point is that it will not be possible to establish that Green has lied for the reasons I have put downthread. So what these two policemen are doing is impugning a man’s character with no real possibility for him to clear his name. That is quite wrong. These policemen have used material apparently obtained in the course of one investigation for another purpose wholly unconnected to the original investigation. Furthermore, they have abused their powers of seizure by using the material gained for their own, apoarently, private reasons.
These are abuses of power. And they should concern us all, whether we are trade unionists, Irishmen fitted up for crimes we did not commit, football fans or MPs. Or anyone else frankly.
A few years ago, the son of a friend of mine was picked up by the police when he was trying to commit suicide. He was later detained in a mental hospital to receive treatment. There is a record of what the police did. They are to be congratulated for the help they gave to a very troubled young man, who is now putting his life back together. Now imagine if he were to become a public figure and someone in the police sought to use this incident to discredit him years later.
We must have absolute confidence that those in authority with powers over us do not abuse those powers and do not misuse confidential and sensitive information they obtain as a result of exercising those powers. Forget data protection. This is much more serious.
Why, of all the notebooks Mr Lewis must have filled during his career, was this one the only one he kept? Why was the extensive pornography he claims he found not mentioned in his 2008 report?0 -
With a pink ball and one stops for dinner....it will never happen though.Sandpit said:.
It’s still not rugby though. It’s like playing Test Match cricket at night.FrancisUrquhart said:Did somebody say rugby league is boring...some incredible play the last 5 mins.
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7 to 1England looking a value bet right nowfoxinsoxuk said:
Australia not finding it easy. Tough game.FrancisUrquhart said:Did somebody say rugby league is boring...some incredible play the last 5 mins.
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I note that Damian Green was preceded in Ashford by Keith Speed and is being pursued by Bob Quick...
Jack be nimble Jack be quick Jack jump over the candlestick.
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Have I been living in some parallel universe where watching and saving porn on a work computer is normally a firing offense?0
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Unfortunately, England don’t look like they are capable of scoring.0
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Speak for yourself Mr D. Most pornography is not aimed at women and has a rather brutal and reductive view of what sex is like, what real women are like and what their needs and desires are. We do not exist purely so that men can show off their tackle in some narcissistic, hard, fast, big “look at me” blow out.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Sandpit, thanks (been AFK, hence slow reply). The reliability stats did strike me, hence the inclusion of Perez/Ocon in the driver graph. Worth bearing in mind for next year too.
Miss Cyclefree, hmm. I do think women rather overplay their virtue in such cases. Not to mention, they're the gender supporting the sex toy industry.
If men spent a bit less time looking at pornography and a bit more focusing on real women, perhaps we might not need sex toys.......0 -
In what way has Green acted badly?foxinsoxuk said:
No, but while the ex police have acted badly so has Green.JonnyJimmy said:
It sounds like you're enjoying this. Sad..foxinsoxuk said:
I remember the good old days when the plod only fitted up protesters, trade unionists, football fans, darkies and Irishmen. They shouldnt be allowed to fit up privileged white men.TheScreamingEagles said:
Oh behave, they've been slaughtering the police in today's edition (and in previous editions as well)MarqueeMark said:
The Times has been ridiculously partisan on this matter. No objectivity on display whatsoever.TheScreamingEagles said:On topic, from today's Times.
A cabinet source said: “Damian might have survived if this was dealt with immediately but the longer this is drawn out, the more there is a sense this is unsustainable. There are now so many allegations out there, it is hard to work out how they will be dealt with.”
Another Tory source said that at least one senior aide in Downing Street thought that Mr Green was likely to have to go. “There are senior figures in No 10 who think he should resign,” they said.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/cabinet-split-over-damian-green-after-police-porn-claims-h7gglljtg
Here's some more of the rozzer bashing articles from today
MPs attack police over computer porn leaks amid Damian Green row - https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/mps-attack-police-over-computer-porn-leaks-damian-green-6glqr09zt
Damian Green pornography affair reopens old Plebgate wounds for Tories - https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/damian-green-pornography-affair-reopens-old-andrew-mitchell-plebgate-wounds-9nw3zwmmf
Matthew Parris - Police are waging a vendetta to destroy Green. Whether the deputy PM downloaded porn is less of a moral outrage than the sinister behaviour of former Met officers
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/police-are-waging-a-vendetta-to-destroy-green-wxr296jgd0 -
I hope you live in a country where being accused of doing so a decade ago by bent cops with a grudge isn't a firing offence.Stereotomy said:Have I been living in some parallel universe where watching and saving porn on a work computer is normally a firing offense?
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