politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Betting on the location of the new HQ of the European Medicine
Comments
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No, we need to expel all Leavers out of the Metropolises/Remainerland.Alanbrooke said:
err isnt it Osborne and Cameron and Starmer who should live there ?TheScreamingEagles said:
Nah, I’m not in favour of the death penalty.DavidL said:
Surely trials are just more of that EU/ECHR human rights crap that we want to get rid of? Just get on to the executions.TheScreamingEagles said:
Yup. Once Brexit turns out to be disaster.Alanbrooke said:
Are you suggesting we try Leavers there in a series of show trials ?TheScreamingEagles said:
Stoke should twin themselves with Nürnberg.Alanbrooke said:
seems fair, Id also move the law courts out too.foxinsoxuk said:
We could base our new Medicines agency in Stoke and reap that Brexit dividend.Alanbrooke said:
maybe they should have based it in Stoke and given them a stake in the EUfoxinsoxuk said:
Well, yes. It would have been sensible to remain part of both agencies and have a say in the rules and regulations across the EU and EEA. The voters of Boston and Stoke thought otherwise.DavidL said:On topic the idea that we would remain the host of EU institutions having left the EU is so absurd that I refuse to believe that anyone entertained it after a moment's thought. That said, there have been persistent rumours that the staff in both institutions don't want to leave.
The question of what we do next is one of the issues to be considered in the Brexit talks. On the financial side this is tied up with the single passport. If we can negotiate continued equivalence between our financial regulation and the EU then there may be some advantage in paying a subscription to remain a member and having an input on new regulation.
On the medicine side I would also see an attraction to either equivalence or subscription membership so that trials in the UK give access to the EU market and vice versa. But that would be a matter for the negotiations and the post departure relationship the EU seem so reluctant to talk about.
Stoke twinned with Karlsruhe
Make Leavers like Gove and Johnson live in places like Stoke, Sunderland, and Barnsley for the rest of their lives.0 -
Strange to have Bratislava as such a heavy favourite perhaps.AlastairMeeks said:
Barcelona can be ruled out, I think. Can't see the Eurocrats risking a move to a city that might also be leaving the EU soon.CarlottaVance said:CarlottaVance said:Staff response to the candidate cities:
http://www.ema.europa.eu/docs/en_GB/document_library/Other/2017/09/WC500235516.pdf
Scroll to the last page....
The European Medicines Agency has revealed a list of five cities that are preferred as its new location by staff after Brexit, following warnings of a public health disaster if EU leaders pick the wrong location later this year.
Amsterdam, Barcelona, Copenhagen, Milan, or Vienna came top of the staff survey, while the agency warned that it could lose more than 70% of its staff if politicians decide to relocate to Athens, Bratislava, Bucharest, Helskinki, Malta, Sofia, Warsaw or Zagreb in a vote in November.
https://pharmaphorum.com/news/european-medicines-agency-reveals-favoured-hq-locations/0 -
I think the idea that the HQs of the EMA and EBA moving from London will increase the desire to reverse Brexit is highly unlikely given most of those who might be concerned will be upper middle class voters who largely voted Remain anyway.0
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That if the favourite wins the possible consequences are:Recidivist said:
I did so but couldn't see the point you might be making?CarlottaVance said:Staff response to the candidate cities:
http://www.ema.europa.eu/docs/en_GB/document_library/Other/2017/09/WC500235516.pdf
Scroll to the last page....
•EMA is unable to operate - public health crisis
•Unravelling of the EU single market for medicines - no centralised authorisations -medicines become unavailable - need to import from third countries
•Need to rely on third countries for approval and importation (e.g. USA, Japan)
•Patients exposed to side effects – deaths – litigation0 -
This means nothing to me.tlg86 said:@TheScreamingEagles - Could you give us a cryptic clue as to how we should bet in the other market? I'm thinking something similar to the Spanish fruit polls.
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I'm sure - nobody likes bring compulsorily uprooted anyway. But it'll be an interesting test of the apparently frivolous idea that Frankfurt can't attract much new banking business because its nightlife is less exciting and brokers therefore don't want it. If the EMA goes to Bratislava (nice place, but probably not a hum of social whirl), it'll be an indication that the decision-makers shrug off whatthe staff fancy.DavidL said:On topic the idea that we would remain the host of EU institutions having left the EU is so absurd that I refuse to believe that anyone entertained it after a moment's thought. That said, there have been persistent rumours that the staff in both institutions don't want to leave.
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That's absolutely spot on, as we're finding out with the new Class 345s on Crossrail at the moment.JosiasJessop said:
Computer languages are the relatively unimportant fluff, and are generally fairly transferable, especially within families - if you know C, Java isn't that difficult to learn.Casino_Royale said:
Whilst that's true, a lot of the logic on designing programme structure and subroutines carries over.DavidL said:
Just maybe...Fysics_Teacher said:
We have been teaching Computing rather than IT for several years now thanks to a dedicated and passionate HoD, but Harris is right that recruiting good teachers is particularly difficult for this subject: worse even than Physics.Recidivist said:For anyone who wants a succinct summary of the issues.
https://www.theguardian.com/science/political-science/2016/oct/14/why-losing-the-european-medicines-agency-is-bad-news-for-patients-jobs-and-the-nhs
Some subjects (History springs to mind) have a large pool of graduates for whom the only way to carry on with a subject they love is to become a teacher. Others (and computing is probably an extreme example even here) have lots of much better paid jobs available.
The only real solution I can think of involves paying teachers of shortage subjects (like Physics) significantly more than those in subject which are easier to recruit for. I may have a bit of a conflict of interest here though.
That said the fact that programmers are in such high demand suggests that more kids should indeed be studying it. The risk is what you get taught gets superseded. My eldest daughter did some programing in a language that seems to have fallen out of favour and stuff in Information Systems that no one would bother teaching anymore. Similarly, the pressure on staff to keep up with a curriculum which has changed out of all recognition in the last decade is considerable.
I learnt BBC Basic (followed by Q-Basic) with a dash of Pascal. I haven't forgotten those lessons, and I still find the principles useful.
What matters much more IMO, and is rarely taught well, is process. How do you specify the problem to be solved, how do you come up with the right solution, how do you implement, and how do you test? How do you work with others in a group concurrently on the same code base? How do you document the code? How do you make the user interface suitable for the end-user rather the coder?
These, and more, are the difference between a professional programmer and an amateur or hacker. They also contain skills that are applicable in wider life as well.
Too many people think that producing reams of code is what is needed. It isn't. It's people who can engineer code as part of a team working on a specific task.0 -
OK then but all Remainers are banned from having second homes in Leave voting Devon and Cornwall and Gloucestershire or living in Leave voting areas of the Home Counties.TheScreamingEagles said:
No, we need to expel all Leavers out of the Metropolises/Remainerland.Alanbrooke said:
err isnt it Osborne and Cameron and Starmer who should live there ?TheScreamingEagles said:
Nah, I’m not in favour of the death penalty.DavidL said:
Surely trials are just more of that EU/ECHR human rights crap that we want to get rid of? Just get on to the executions.TheScreamingEagles said:
Yup. Once Brexit turns out to be disaster.Alanbrooke said:
Are you suggesting we try Leavers there in a series of show trials ?TheScreamingEagles said:
Stoke should twin themselves with Nürnberg.Alanbrooke said:
seems fair, Id also move the law courts out too.foxinsoxuk said:
We could base our new Medicines agency in Stoke and reap that Brexit dividend.Alanbrooke said:
maybe they should have based it in Stoke and given them a stake in the EUfoxinsoxuk said:
Well, yes. It would have been sensible to remain part of both agencies and have a say in the rules and regulations across the EU and EEA. The voters of Boston and Stoke thought otherwise.DavidL said:On topic the idea that we would remain the host of EU institutions having left the EU is so absurd that I refuse to believe that anyone entertained it after a moment's thought. That said, there have been persistent rumours that the staff in both institutions don't want to leave.
The question of what we do next is one of the issues to be considered in the Brexit talks. On the financial side this is tied up with the single passport. If we can negotiate continued equivalence between our financial regulation and the EU then there may be some advantage in paying a subscription to remain a member and having an input on new regulation.
On the medicine side I would also see an attraction to either equivalence or subscription membership so that trials in the UK give access to the EU market and vice versa. But that would be a matter for the negotiations and the post departure relationship the EU seem so reluctant to talk about.
Stoke twinned with Karlsruhe
Make Leavers like Gove and Johnson live in places like Stoke, Sunderland, and Barnsley for the rest of their lives.0 -
Matt Singh on the 'Labour 12 points ahead':
https://www.ncpolitics.uk/2017/11/is-labour-secretly-12-points-ahead.html/
Hint....it isn't......0 -
There was money involved, apparently. Cheap new accomodation. Or something like that.rkrkrk said:
Strange to have Bratislava as such a heavy favourite perhaps.AlastairMeeks said:
Barcelona can be ruled out, I think. Can't see the Eurocrats risking a move to a city that might also be leaving the EU soon.CarlottaVance said:CarlottaVance said:Staff response to the candidate cities:
http://www.ema.europa.eu/docs/en_GB/document_library/Other/2017/09/WC500235516.pdf
Scroll to the last page....
The European Medicines Agency has revealed a list of five cities that are preferred as its new location by staff after Brexit, following warnings of a public health disaster if EU leaders pick the wrong location later this year.
Amsterdam, Barcelona, Copenhagen, Milan, or Vienna came top of the staff survey, while the agency warned that it could lose more than 70% of its staff if politicians decide to relocate to Athens, Bratislava, Bucharest, Helskinki, Malta, Sofia, Warsaw or Zagreb in a vote in November.
https://pharmaphorum.com/news/european-medicines-agency-reveals-favoured-hq-locations/0 -
Yes, I may be out of date, but when I worked for Novartis the UK market was seen as one of the higher payers (and hence an early place to market - Spain was cheapest and last), and as an MP the ABPI lobbied to keep the existing complicated and not very transparent system rather than either simplify or harmonise with other countries.rkrkrk said:
I think it’s very debatable whether the NHS does drive a hard bargain on drugs prices.
On orphan drugs I think it’s clear we are getting ripped off in many cases.
I'd think that in practice we would normally recognise an EMA-approved drug as safe - it'd be bonkers to require fresh trials - in the same way that drugs approved by NICE as cost-effective usually have an easier time getting into other markets. In this particular case, I expect pragmatism to find a way.
And people can get used to Bratislava or wherever if they need to. The number who really quit their specialised jobs will, I think, be small. I don't particularly want to work in Magdeburg, say, but if that's where my job went, I'd need to go with it.
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Alastair Campbell's 'still strong & stable' quip about Germany hasn't aged well.....since yesterday....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5X7s3vctSo0 -
Morning all,Casino_Royale said:
That's absolutely spot on, as we're finding out with the new Class 345s on Crossrail at the moment.JosiasJessop said:
Computer languages are the relatively unimportant fluff, and are generally fairly transferable, especially within families - if you know C, Java isn't that difficult to learn.Casino_Royale said:
Whilst that's true, a lot of the logic on designing programme structure and subroutines carries over.DavidL said:
Just maybe...Fysics_Teacher said:
We have been teaching Computing rather than IT for several years now thanks to a dedicated and passionate HoD, but Harris is right that recruiting good teachers is particularly difficult for this subject: worse even than Physics.Recidivist said:For anyone who wants a succinct summary of the issues.
https://www.theguardian.com/science/political-science/2016/oct/14/why-losing-the-european-medicines-agency-is-bad-news-for-patients-jobs-and-the-nhs
Some subjects (History springs to mind) have a large pool of graduates for whom the only way to carry on with a subject they love is to become a teacher. Others (and computing is probably an extreme example even here) have lots of much better paid jobs available.
The only real solution I can think of involves paying teachers of shortage subjects (like Physics) significantly more than those in subject which are easier to recruit for. I may have a bit of a conflict of interest here though.
snip
I learnt BBC Basic (followed by Q-Basic) with a dash of Pascal. I haven't forgotten those lessons, and I still find the principles useful.
What matters much more IMO, and is rarely taught well, is process. How do you specify the problem to be solved, how do you come up with the right solution, how do you implement, and how do you test? How do you work with others in a group concurrently on the same code base? How do you document the code? How do you make the user interface suitable for the end-user rather the coder?
These, and more, are the difference between a professional programmer and an amateur or hacker. They also contain skills that are applicable in wider life as well.
Too many people think that producing reams of code is what is needed. It isn't. It's people who can engineer code as part of a team working on a specific task.
iirc the curricula and the way Comp Sci is taught is currently having a major review under Sir Nigel Shadbolt0 -
Ah, I haven't heard about this. Anything you care to, or are allowed to, expand upon?Casino_Royale said:That's absolutely spot on, as we're finding out with the new Class 345s on Crossrail at the moment.
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So this is located in London - the capital city of the UK.
Now compare some of the other cities on the list:
Milan - not the capital of Italy
Barcelona - not the capital of Spain
Lille - not the capital of France
Bonn - not the capital of Germany
Do you get the idea that the 'benefits' of EU membership were too concentrated in too few places in the UK ?0 -
Mr. Richard, worth noting that the UK/England has been more heavily centralised than most countries in Europe for a long time. Our second cities (Manchester, Leeds, Birmingham) are significantly smaller than the capital, whereas Germany's (Stuttgart, Frankfurt, Cologne) are, I think, a lot closer. That's just because of the way their country evolved.
I think it's more indicative of the lopsided nature of the UK and the political/media class than the EU, to be honest. You can also look at the disproportionate number of museums and art galleries in London.0 -
Pan European studies (and global studies) will continue. I am on the board of an orphan drug company and we spent a lot of time aligning the EMA and the FDA so that they had consistent views on the trial protocol and end points (which is what matters). Increasing the influence of the MHRA may make that more complicated but they are usually well aligned with the EMA anyway. Trial designs *will* continue to be multi jurisdictional because that makes economic senseOldKingCole said:I went to a talk by an ex-head of what is now the MHRA a couple of weeks ago. He made several points. One is that because the EMA is situated in London much of the work our MHRA does is for the EMA, and the close proximity of the two organisations is, if not vital, very important. There’s a lot of money flowing both ways, and while some of this will continue, there will be barriers. Also, especially with medicines for rarer diseases, we benefit from pan-European studies; if/when we leave the EMA we may well not be part of the studies. There is of course sharing of scientific data but will the designs of such studies continue to allow direct comparisons. Probably, of course, but neither necessarity nor invariably.
We would also lose access to the wider EU scientific budget, where because of our experience we’re ‘pulling up’, in particulkar the Eastern countries and generally, as a result we get more than we put in.
As far as the siting is concerned, very few of the present staff wanted, when a survery was done, to move to Bratislava. We could, in worst case, be looking at a logjam situation in medicines regulation.
He also made the point that the three most sophisticated medidicines regulatory systems are the European, the US, and the Japanese. As a direct result of Brexit the European one is going to have to be rebuilt, at least staff-wise and there will a be a fourth, smaller than either of the other three (Japan’s population is about twice ours) so either our medicines regulation will have to link to one of the big three or we will move further down the queue when it comes to companies licensing new products.
In short, he was very, very concerned about the practical effects of Brexit on medicine safety in Europe as a whole, and in UK, and on the supply of medicines in UK.
Never mind, we’ll have blue passports.
NICE is a hurdle, as @foxinsoxuk notes, but every country has a similar set up. They are increasingly taking their lead from NICE as we have the most rigourous approach. I'd expect that to continue
Scientific budget doesn't matter - it's a recycling of UK money. If our government chooses to spend money there it can.
Japan is irrelevant to global development because their regulator insists on genetic bridging studies. The FDA will still be the most important followed by the EMA and MHRA/NICE will be significant.
But the rational outcome would be for us to remain an associate member of the EMA.0 -
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Governmental decision makers are different to bank SLTsNickPalmer said:
I'm sure - nobody likes bring compulsorily uprooted anyway. But it'll be an interesting test of the apparently frivolous idea that Frankfurt can't attract much new banking business because its nightlife is less exciting and brokers therefore don't want it. If the EMA goes to Bratislava (nice place, but probably not a hum of social whirl), it'll be an indication that the decision-makers shrug off whatthe staff fancy.DavidL said:On topic the idea that we would remain the host of EU institutions having left the EU is so absurd that I refuse to believe that anyone entertained it after a moment's thought. That said, there have been persistent rumours that the staff in both institutions don't want to leave.
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In today's positive Brexit news:
https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/932531084927143936
https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/9322000413050716210 -
As someone who spent a decade doing QA and end-user implementation & training, I couldn’t agree with you more!! Many conversations with developers about silly things like tab order and UI inconsistencies that they just didn’t understand to be issues.JosiasJessop said:
Computer languages are the relatively unimportant fluff, and are generally fairly transferable, especially within families - if you know C, Java isn't that difficult to learn.Casino_Royale said:
Whilst that's true, a lot of the logic on designing programme structure and subroutines carries over.DavidL said:
Just maybe...Fysics_Teacher said:Recidivist said:
That said the fact that programmers are in such high demand suggests that more kids should indeed be studying it. The risk is what you get taught gets superseded. My eldest daughter did some programing in a language that seems to have fallen out of favour and stuff in Information Systems that no one would bother teaching anymore. Similarly, the pressure on staff to keep up with a curriculum which has changed out of all recognition in the last decade is considerable.
I learnt BBC Basic (followed by Q-Basic) with a dash of Pascal. I haven't forgotten those lessons, and I still find the principles useful.
What matters much more IMO, and is rarely taught well, is process. How do you specify the problem to be solved, how do you come up with the right solution, how do you implement, and how do you test? How do you work with others in a group concurrently on the same code base? How do you document the code? How do you make the user interface suitable for the end-user rather the coder?
These, and more, are the difference between a professional programmer and an amateur or hacker. They also contain skills that are applicable in wider life as well.
Too many people think that producing reams of code is what is needed. It isn't. It's people who can engineer code as part of a team working on a specific task.0 -
That is a good argument, though an academic one as we have chosen to forego the benefits altogether. When we rejoin, if we can swing getting the EMA back we should try to get it in Manchester or Cambridge.another_richard said:So this is located in London - the capital city of the UK.
Now compare some of the other cities on the list:
Milan - not the capital of Italy
Barcelona - not the capital of Spain
Lille - not the capital of France
Bonn - not the capital of Germany
Do you get the idea that the 'benefits' of EU membership were too concentrated in too few places in the UK ?0 -
OhTheScreamingEagles said:
This means nothing to me.tlg86 said:@TheScreamingEagles - Could you give us a cryptic clue as to how we should bet in the other market? I'm thinking something similar to the Spanish fruit polls.
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Indeed.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Richard, worth noting that the UK/England has been more heavily centralised than most countries in Europe for a long time. Our second cities (Manchester, Leeds, Birmingham) are significantly smaller than the capital, whereas Germany's (Stuttgart, Frankfurt, Cologne) are, I think, a lot closer. That's just because of the way their country evolved.
I think it's more indicative of the lopsided nature of the UK and the political/media class than the EU, to be honest. You can also look at the disproportionate number of museums and art galleries in London.
Its a problem caused by the UK not the EU.
The bias towards London in transport spending is another example. Even things such as locating an HS2 station in Sheffield rather than at Meadowhall have the imprint of what benefits London most.
Although the current government has been much better at building useful roads.0 -
AgreedSandpit said:
As someone who spent a decade doing QA and end-user implementation & training, I couldn’t agree with you more!! Many conversations with developers about silly things like tab order and UI inconsistencies that they just didn’t understand to be issues.JosiasJessop said:
Computer languages are the relatively unimportant fluff, and are generally fairly transferable, especially within families - if you know C, Java isn't that difficult to learn.Casino_Royale said:
Whilst that's true, a lot of the logic on designing programme structure and subroutines carries over.DavidL said:
Just maybe...Fysics_Teacher said:Recidivist said:
That said the fact that programmers are in such high demand suggests that more kids should indeed be studying it. The risk is what you get taught gets superseded. My eldest daughter did some programing in a language that seems to have fallen out of favour and stuff in Information Systems that no one would bother teaching anymore. Similarly, the pressure on staff to keep up with a curriculum which has changed out of all recognition in the last decade is considerable.
I learnt BBC Basic (followed by Q-Basic) with a dash of Pascal. I haven't forgotten those lessons, and I still find the principles useful.
What matters much more IMO, and is rarely taught well, is process. How do you specify the problem to be solved, how do you come up with the right solution, how do you implement, and how do you test? How do you work with others in a group concurrently on the same code base? How do you document the code? How do you make the user interface suitable for the end-user rather the coder?
These, and more, are the difference between a professional programmer and an amateur or hacker. They also contain skills that are applicable in wider life as well.
Too many people think that producing reams of code is what is needed. It isn't. It's people who can engineer code as part of a team working on a specific task.
Development units and business units, even when both in house, are poor st communication with each other. We should be teaching 'talking to techies' to business students and 'talking to businesses' to Comp Scis.0 -
Good to see that Bad Al is still a c... more than two decades after he started working for Blair.CarlottaVance said:Alastair Campbell's 'still strong & stable' quip about Germany hasn't aged well.....since yesterday....
ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5X7s3vctSo
Quote from Gisela “You want a bad deal to prove you’re right”.0 -
I probably shouldn't, other than to say that Bombardier's development of the train control management system (TCMS) to provide full CBTC functionality in the centre, and interface with TPWS in the east and ultimately ETCS in the west, is proving extremely challenging.JosiasJessop said:
Ah, I haven't heard about this. Anything you care to, or are allowed to, expand upon?Casino_Royale said:That's absolutely spot on, as we're finding out with the new Class 345s on Crossrail at the moment.
Change control, configuration management and testing/proving each release/iteration are all issues.0 -
Absolutely agreed,Mortimer said:
AgreedSandpit said:
As someone who spent a decade doing QA and end-user implementation & training, I couldn’t agree with you more!! Many conversations with developers about silly things like tab order and UI inconsistencies that they just didn’t understand to be issues.JosiasJessop said:
Computer languages are the relatively unimportant fluff, and are generally fairly transferable, especially within families - if you know C, Java isn't that difficult to learn.Casino_Royale said:
Whilst that's true, a lot of the logic on designing programme structure and subroutines carries over.DavidL said:
Just maybe...Fysics_Teacher said:Recidivist said:
That said the fact that programmers are in such high demand suggests that more kids should indeed be studying it. The risk is what you get taught gets superseded. My eldest daughter did some programing in a language that seems to have fallen out of favour and stuff in Information Systems that no one would bother teaching anymore. Similarly, the pressure on staff to keep up with a curriculum which has changed out of all recognition in the last decade is considerable.
I learnt BBC Basic (followed by Q-Basic) with a dash of Pascal. I haven't forgotten those lessons, and I still find the principles useful.
What matters much more IMO, and is rarely taught well, is process. How do you specify the problem to be solved, how do you come up with the right solution, how do you implement, and how do you test? How do you work with others in a group concurrently on the same code base? How do you document the code? How do you make the user interface suitable for the end-user rather the coder?
These, and more, are the difference between a professional programmer and an amateur or hacker. They also contain skills that are applicable in wider life as well.
Too many people think that producing reams of code is what is needed. It isn't. It's people who can engineer code as part of a team working on a specific task.
Development units and business units, even when both in house, are poor st communication with each other. We should be teaching 'talking to techies' to business students and 'talking to businesses' to Comp Scis.
I’ve made my career doing just that, having a conversation with a customer’s finance director one day about reporting requirements, and a conversation with the lead architect the following day about database table structures and indexes required to run the reports efficiently.
A huge number of highly intelligent people in IT struggle with social skills and meetings with non-technical people. I’ve learned to put an extrovert face on where required.0 -
Thanks for that. I was hoping you’d comment. However, is there (yet) associate member status for the EMA. And it does seem, as per the document quoted, very disruptive and, health-wise, counter productive.Charles said:
Pan European studies (and global studies) will continue. I am on the board of an orphan drug company and we spent a lot of time aligning the EMA and the FDA so that they had consistent views on the trial protocol and end points (which is what matters). Increasing the influence of the MHRA may make that more complicated but they are usually well aligned with the EMA anyway. Trial designs *will* continue to be multi jurisdictional because that makes economic senseOldKingCole said:I went to a talk by an ex-head of what is now the MHRA a couple of weeks ago. He made several points. One is that because the EMA is situated in London much of the work our MHRA does is for the EMA, and the close proximity of the two organisations is, if not vital, very important. There’s a lot of money flowing both ways, and while some of this will continue, there will be barriers. Also, especially with medicines for rarer diseases, we benefit from pan-European studies; if/when we leave the EMA we may well not be part of the studies. There is of course sharing of scientific data but will the designs of such studies continue to allow direct comparisons. Probably, of course, but neither necessarity nor invariably.
We would also lose access to the wider EU scientific budget, where because of our experience we’re ‘pulling up’, in particulkar the Eastern countries and generally, as a result we get more than we put in.
In short, he was very, very concerned about the practical effects of Brexit on medicine safety in Europe as a whole, and in UK, and on the supply of medicines in UK.
Never mind, we’ll have blue passports.
NICE is a hurdle, as @foxinsoxuk notes, but every country has a similar set up. They are increasingly taking their lead from NICE as we have the most rigourous approach. I'd expect that to continue
Scientific budget doesn't matter - it's a recycling of UK money. If our government chooses to spend money there it can.
Japan is irrelevant to global development because their regulator insists on genetic bridging studies. The FDA will still be the most important followed by the EMA and MHRA/NICE will be significant.
But the rational outcome would be for us to remain an associate member of the EMA.
IIRC the guy I listened to was concerned not at alignment with the FDA’s requirments, but with the legal system in the USA.0 -
Thanks.Casino_Royale said:
I probably shouldn't, other than to say that Bombardier's development of the train control management system (TCMS) to provide full CBTC functionality in the centre, and interface with TPWS in the east and ultimately ETCS in the west, is proving extremely challenging.JosiasJessop said:
Ah, I haven't heard about this. Anything you care to, or are allowed to, expand upon?Casino_Royale said:That's absolutely spot on, as we're finding out with the new Class 345s on Crossrail at the moment.
Change control, configuration management and testing/proving each release/iteration are all issues.0 -
I wonder if he's got any self awareness - Gisela put up with a heck of a lot and remained polite throughout......Sandpit said:
Good to see that Bad Al is still a c... more than two decades after he started working for Blair.CarlottaVance said:Alastair Campbell's 'still strong & stable' quip about Germany hasn't aged well.....since yesterday....
ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5X7s3vctSo
Quote from Gisela “You want a bad deal to prove you’re right”.0 -
Though London is now effectively the capital of Europe just as New York is the effective capital of North America.another_richard said:So this is located in London - the capital city of the UK.
Now compare some of the other cities on the list:
Milan - not the capital of Italy
Barcelona - not the capital of Spain
Lille - not the capital of France
Bonn - not the capital of Germany
Do you get the idea that the 'benefits' of EU membership were too concentrated in too few places in the UK ?0 -
Many moons ago I took over a business which had three different measurements - and reporting systems - for something as simple as 'what we sold yesterday'.....of course people frequently got them muddled and spent hours trying to reconcile the differences.....Mortimer said:
Development units and business units, even when both in house, are poor st communication with each other. We should be teaching 'talking to techies' to business students and 'talking to businesses' to Comp Scis.Sandpit said:
As someone who spent a decade doing QA and end-user implementation & training, I couldn’t agree with you more!! Many conversations with developers about silly things like tab order and UI inconsistencies that they just didn’t understand to be issues.JosiasJessop said:
Computer languages are the relatively unimportant fluff, and are generally fairly transferable, especially within families - if you know C, Java isn't that difficult to learn.Casino_Royale said:
Whilst that's true, a lot of the logic on designing programme structure and subroutines carries over.DavidL said:
Just maybe...Fysics_Teacher said:Recidivist said:
That said the fact that programmers are in such high demand suggests that more kids should indeed be studying it. The risk is what you get taught gets superseded. My eldest daughter did some programing in a language that seems to have fallen out of favour and stuff in Information Systems that no one would bother teaching anymore. Similarly, the pressure on staff to keep up with a curriculum which has changed out of all recognition in the last decade is considerable.
I learnt BBC Basic (followed by Q-Basic) with a dash of Pascal. I haven't forgotten those lessons, and I still find the principles useful.
What matters much more IMO, and is rarely taught well, is process. How do you specify the problem to be solved, how do you come up with the right solution, how do you implement, and how do you test? How do you work with others in a group concurrently on the same code base? How do you document the code? How do you make the user interface suitable for the end-user rather the coder?
These, and more, are the difference between a professional programmer and an amateur or hacker. They also contain skills that are applicable in wider life as well.
Too many people think that producing reams of code is what is needed. It isn't. It's people who can engineer code as part of a team working on a specific task.0 -
Why does an HS2 station in Sheffield rather than Meadowhall benefit London most, given that a station in Sheffield is what Sheffield were actively campaigning for?another_richard said:
Indeed.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Richard, worth noting that the UK/England has been more heavily centralised than most countries in Europe for a long time. Our second cities (Manchester, Leeds, Birmingham) are significantly smaller than the capital, whereas Germany's (Stuttgart, Frankfurt, Cologne) are, I think, a lot closer. That's just because of the way their country evolved.
I think it's more indicative of the lopsided nature of the UK and the political/media class than the EU, to be honest. You can also look at the disproportionate number of museums and art galleries in London.
Its a problem caused by the UK not the EU.
The bias towards London in transport spending is another example. Even things such as locating an HS2 station in Sheffield rather than at Meadowhall have the imprint of what benefits London most.
Although the current government has been much better at building useful roads.0 -
Investment outside London:
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/theresa-announces-250-million-improve-139232660 -
Bucks/Milton Keynes and Northamptonshire wildly differing in outlook even though they've always occupied the same place of 'middling to middling' stops with some F1 employment as the best jobs on the way to London from my mind's eye.AlastairMeeks said:In today's positive Brexit news:
https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/932531084927143936
https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/9322000413050716210 -
Mr Eagles,
"Make Leavers like Gove and Johnson live in places like Stoke, Sunderland, and Barnsley for the rest of their lives."
I think your inner metropolitan elite is showing. That could be what Remain has done to your brain. But I blame the parents.0 -
Morning all
Slightly puzzled by events in Germany. While I can understand the "Jamaica" option was always going to be difficult to put together, it seems odd that the FDP have walked out of the talks yet at the same time no one seems to be trying to put together a CDU/CSU/FDP coalition which you'd think would be the logical fit (even as a minority). Instead there's talk of a CDU/CSU/Green Government which does seem odd give the Greens have always worked more with the SPD in the past.
While I understand Governments like to have majorities, does Merkel really have huge concerns of being outvoted by the extremes of the Left and AfD on any particular issue ? I can't see it and therefore I can't see why a coalition with the FDP wouldn't work.
If there are to be new or fresh elections, will there be much change ? History suggests not though one could imagine the SPD doing a bit better but until or unless the CDU/CSU and SPD can regain enough strength to force groups like AfD, LInke or even the FDP back below 5% and therefore out of the Bundestag, they are going to have to get used to some serious horse trading.0 -
WRT Germany, surely CDU and FDP could form a minority government. They outnumber the Left parties 326 to 289 and could presumably do ad hoc deals with AFD.0
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Mr. Pulpstar, Milton Keynes must be hoping Red Bull can win next year. I forget the precise figure, think it was low to mid tens of thousands, but every employee (from designers to cleaners) got the same bonus when Red Bull were taking the titles every year.
Mercedes do much the same. For local shops focusing on little luxuries (swanky meals out, suits and dresses etc) it must be a great for workers to suddenly be swimming in cash.0 -
That sounds like one of my current customers, who struggles to see the productivity they’re losing by not having a single source of the truth emailed to everyone in the business overnight.CarlottaVance said:
Many moons ago I took over a business which had three different measurements - and reporting systems - for something as simple as 'what we sold yesterday'.....of course people frequently got them muddled and spent hours trying to reconcile the differences.....Mortimer said:
Development units and business units, even when both in house, are poor st communication with each other. We should be teaching 'talking to techies' to business students and 'talking to businesses' to Comp Scis.Sandpit said:
As someone who spent a decade doing QA and end-user implementation & training, I couldn’t agree with you more!! Many conversations with developers about silly things like tab order and UI inconsistencies that they just didn’t understand to be issues.JosiasJessop said:
Computer languages are the relatively unimportant fluff, and are generally fairly transferable, especially within families - if you know C, Java isn't that difficult to learn.Casino_Royale said:DavidL said:Fysics_Teacher said:Recidivist said:
What matters much more IMO, and is rarely taught well, is process. How do you specify the problem to be solved, how do you come up with the right solution, how do you implement, and how do you test? How do you work with others in a group concurrently on the same code base? How do you document the code? How do you make the user interface suitable for the end-user rather the coder?
These, and more, are the difference between a professional programmer and an amateur or hacker. They also contain skills that are applicable in wider life as well.
Too many people think that producing reams of code is what is needed. It isn't. It's people who can engineer code as part of a team working on a specific task.
A decade ago I worked for a company with 10,000 employees that had their entire HR system on paper. Hundreds of holiday approval papers each requiring half a dozen signatures were on the desk of senior management every morning. They thought it was okay because the admin staff were cheap and those high up enough to make the decisions on upgrading to a proper HR system didn’t see the amount of time those just below them were wasting on shuffling papers around.0 -
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Mr. F, won't Weltkriegschuldig prevent every other party having anything to do with the AfD?0
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Ah yes MK has alot of the teams, and Northamptonshire the race trackMorris_Dancer said:Mr. Pulpstar, Milton Keynes must be hoping Red Bull can win next year. I forget the precise figure, think it was low to mid tens of thousands, but every employee (from designers to cleaners) got the same bonus when Red Bull were taking the titles every year.
Mercedes do much the same. For local shops focusing on little luxuries (swanky meals out, suits and dresses etc) it must be a great for workers to suddenly be swimming in cash. 0 -
On topic - if the EU wants to tie Catalonia into Spain then putting the EMA in Barcelona would be a part of doing that. There is also a pretty decent biotech/pharma hub based in and around the city. Before all the recent tumult there was a very strong push for Barcelona from the Spanish government.0
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They're very different, even just considering Milton Keynes and Northampton. Bucks also includes a super-prime commuter belt going up through places like Beaconsfield.Pulpstar said:
Bucks/Milton Keynes and Northamptonshire wildly differing in outlook even though they've always occupied the same place of 'middling to middling' stops with some F1 employment as the best jobs on the way to London from my mind's eye.AlastairMeeks said:In today's positive Brexit news:
https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/932531084927143936
https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/9322000413050716210 -
F1: not backing myself because I'm already on, but there's a little for Alonso on Betfair at 18 and a bit more on 16 for the 2018 title. Verstappen is 4.7. If the Renault engine is good enough for Verstappen, it'll be good enough for Alonso.
There's also 21 on Betfair Sportsbook. But beware pit lane starts.
Also, Bottas at 16 each way (fifth the odds, top 3, with boost) on Ladbrokes remains very good. If it's Mercedes-dominant or Mercedes+Ferrari, he's highly likely to be top 3. If the Renault is good enough, Alonso is in with a shot.
Interesting how much the odds vary. Bottas is 13/2 on Betfair Sportsbook, Alonso is 11 with Ladbrokes.0 -
No-one trusts the FDP leadership anymore.stodge said:Slightly puzzled by events in Germany. While I can understand the "Jamaica" option was always going to be difficult to put together, it seems odd that the FDP have walked out of the talks yet at the same time no one seems to be trying to put together a CDU/CSU/FDP coalition which you'd think would be the logical fit (even as a minority).
0 -
One other thing to keep an eye on will be if UK pharmacies can still re import medicines from Greece/wherever is cheapest and change the labels as necessary.NickPalmer said:
Yes, I may be out of date, but when I worked for Novartis the UK market was seen as one of the higher payers (and hence an early place to market - Spain was cheapest and last), and as an MP the ABPI lobbied to keep the existing complicated and not very transparent system rather than either simplify or harmonise with other countries.rkrkrk said:
I think it’s very debatable whether the NHS does drive a hard bargain on drugs prices.
On orphan drugs I think it’s clear we are getting ripped off in many cases.
I'd think that in practice we would normally recognise an EMA-approved drug as safe - it'd be bonkers to require fresh trials - in the same way that drugs approved by NICE as cost-effective usually have an easier time getting into other markets. In this particular case, I expect pragmatism to find a way.
And people can get used to Bratislava or wherever if they need to. The number who really quit their specialised jobs will, I think, be small. I don't particularly want to work in Magdeburg, say, but if that's where my job went, I'd need to go with it.
I’d imagine pharma will lobby hard against that being part of a final deal.
Also the poorer countries with cheaper drugs may not want it either.0 -
This half hour from the BBC archives is worth a look, made in London by US reporter Ed Murrow (for a UK audience) in the late 1950s including some of his reportage from 1939/40. The latter part contains a lot of political commentary with the odd snippet that will make both remainers and leavers smile.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p008qcdh/after-the-battle-1-london-ed-murrow-reports
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Barcelona is slightly misleading as it is the capital of Catalonia and home to around 70% of the population. Interestingly, in Catalan elections Barcelona is deliberately under-represented because to do otherwise would be to drown out the rest of the country. That is fine until you get to issues like independence. Then you get a situation where separatist parties get a majority of seats, but not a majority of votes.another_richard said:So this is located in London - the capital city of the UK.
Now compare some of the other cities on the list:
Milan - not the capital of Italy
Barcelona - not the capital of Spain
Lille - not the capital of France
Bonn - not the capital of Germany
Do you get the idea that the 'benefits' of EU membership were too concentrated in too few places in the UK ?
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A station at Meadowhall would benefit the rest of South Yorkshire (and even some of Sheffield) far more than a station in the centre of Sheffield.JosiasJessop said:
Why does an HS2 station in Sheffield rather than Meadowhall benefit London most, given that a station in Sheffield is what Sheffield were actively campaigning for?another_richard said:
Indeed.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Richard, worth noting that the UK/England has been more heavily centralised than most countries in Europe for a long time. Our second cities (Manchester, Leeds, Birmingham) are significantly smaller than the capital, whereas Germany's (Stuttgart, Frankfurt, Cologne) are, I think, a lot closer. That's just because of the way their country evolved.
I think it's more indicative of the lopsided nature of the UK and the political/media class than the EU, to be honest. You can also look at the disproportionate number of museums and art galleries in London.
Its a problem caused by the UK not the EU.
The bias towards London in transport spending is another example. Even things such as locating an HS2 station in Sheffield rather than at Meadowhall have the imprint of what benefits London most.
Although the current government has been much better at building useful roads.
Whereas, I rather suspect, that someone in London would be thinking in terms of going to central Sheffield rather than to the vast, free car park with excellent communications which Meadowhall is.0 -
I'm not suggesting that they bring they bring AFD into government. But ad hoc deals on legislation would be feasible, IMO. It would be pointless to pretend that a party with 90 MP's doesn't exist.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. F, won't Weltkriegschuldig prevent every other party having anything to do with the AfD?
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I don't know if there is associate status - but it should be easy to create. All you need to do is delete words "you have to be a member of EU to be a member of EMA"OldKingCole said:
Thanks for that. I was hoping you’d comment. However, is there (yet) associate member status for the EMA. And it does seem, as per the document quoted, very disruptive and, health-wise, counter productive.Charles said:
Pan European studies (and global studies) will continue. I am on the board of an orphan drug company and we spent a lot of time aligning the EMA and the FDA so that they had consistent views on the trial protocol and end points (which is what matters). Increasing the influence of the MHRA may make that more complicated but they are usually well aligned with the EMA anyway. Trial designs *will* continue to be multi jurisdictional because that makes economic senseOldKingCole said:I went to a talk by an ex-head of what is now the MHRA a couple of weeks ago. He made several points. One is that because the EMA is situated in London much of the work our MHRA does is for the EMA, and the close proximity of the two organisations is, if not vital, very important. There’s a lot of money flowing both ways, and while some of this will continue, there will be barriers. Also, especially with medicines for rarer diseases, we benefit from pan-European studies; if/when we leave the EMA we may well not be part of the studies. There is of course sharing of scientific data but will the designs of such studies continue to allow direct comparisons. Probably, of course, but neither necessarity nor invariably.
We would also lose access to the wider EU scientific budget, where because of our experience we’re ‘pulling up’, in particulkar the Eastern countries and generally, as a result we get more than we put in.
In short, he was very, very concerned about the practical effects of Brexit on medicine safety in Europe as a whole, and in UK, and on the supply of medicines in UK.
NICE is a hurdle, as @foxinsoxuk notes, but every country has a similar set up. They are increasingly taking their lead from NICE as we have the most rigourous approach. I'd expect that to continue
Scientific budget doesn't matter - it's a recycling of UK money. If our government chooses to spend money there it can.
Japan is irrelevant to global development because their regulator insists on genetic bridging studies. The FDA will still be the most important followed by the EMA and MHRA/NICE will be significant.
But the rational outcome would be for us to remain an associate member of the EMA.
IIRC the guy I listened to was concerned not at alignment with the FDA’s requirments, but with the legal system in the USA.
Company drives interest in aligning with FDA (one set of trials not two). Not sure of the legal issues he is concerned with.0 -
Bottas e/w is a great bet, as it was this year.Morris_Dancer said:F1: not backing myself because I'm already on, but there's a little for Alonso on Betfair at 18 and a bit more on 16 for the 2018 title. Verstappen is 4.7. If the Renault engine is good enough for Verstappen, it'll be good enough for Alonso.
There's also 21 on Betfair Sportsbook. But beware pit lane starts.
Also, Bottas at 16 each way (fifth the odds, top 3, with boost) on Ladbrokes remains very good. If it's Mercedes-dominant or Mercedes+Ferrari, he's highly likely to be top 3. If the Renault is good enough, Alonso is in with a shot.
Interesting how much the odds vary. Bottas is 13/2 on Betfair Sportsbook, Alonso is 11 with Ladbrokes.
The Red Bullies have already been protesting at the reduction from 4 to 3 PU elements next season, although there are rumours that the penalties may be eased a little if everyone can agree - and Mercedes, funnily enough, don’t.
Picking up tickets today for Abu Dhabi
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A good analysis.stodge said:Morning all
Slightly puzzled by events in Germany. While I can understand the "Jamaica" option was always going to be difficult to put together, it seems odd that the FDP have walked out of the talks yet at the same time no one seems to be trying to put together a CDU/CSU/FDP coalition which you'd think would be the logical fit (even as a minority). Instead there's talk of a CDU/CSU/Green Government which does seem odd give the Greens have always worked more with the SPD in the past.
While I understand Governments like to have majorities, does Merkel really have huge concerns of being outvoted by the extremes of the Left and AfD on any particular issue ? I can't see it and therefore I can't see why a coalition with the FDP wouldn't work.
If there are to be new or fresh elections, will there be much change ? History suggests not though one could imagine the SPD doing a bit better but until or unless the CDU/CSU and SPD can regain enough strength to force groups like AfD, LInke or even the FDP back below 5% and therefore out of the Bundestag, they are going to have to get used to some serious horse trading.
I don't know how often German politics has the equivalent of 'backbench rebellions' but a majority government made up of incompatible parties might well be more unstable than a more cohesive minority government.0 -
Mr. F, it'd be dumb as hell to phase out nuclear power because of a tsunami-and-earthquake meltdown in Japan too, but that's how Merkel rolls...
Mr. Charles, sounds simple, sensible, and mutually beneficial. So it probably won't happen.0 -
zerohedge @zerohedge
GERMAN PRESIDENT STEINMEIER PLANS STATEMENT AT 2PM CET: RND
The bell tolleth for Angie?0 -
The FDP has done well to fight back from its position below the 5% threshold, and they have close relations with the UK LibDems; the experience of the latter in coalition has probably made the FDP somewhat wary.stodge said:Morning all
Slightly puzzled by events in Germany. While I can understand the "Jamaica" option was always going to be difficult to put together, it seems odd that the FDP have walked out of the talks yet at the same time no one seems to be trying to put together a CDU/CSU/FDP coalition which you'd think would be the logical fit (even as a minority). Instead there's talk of a CDU/CSU/Green Government which does seem odd give the Greens have always worked more with the SPD in the past.
While I understand Governments like to have majorities, does Merkel really have huge concerns of being outvoted by the extremes of the Left and AfD on any particular issue ? I can't see it and therefore I can't see why a coalition with the FDP wouldn't work.
If there are to be new or fresh elections, will there be much change ? History suggests not though one could imagine the SPD doing a bit better but until or unless the CDU/CSU and SPD can regain enough strength to force groups like AfD, LInke or even the FDP back below 5% and therefore out of the Bundestag, they are going to have to get used to some serious horse trading.0 -
Towards the end of company X, we had an incredibly poor timekeeping system. Originally we had to fill out our timesheets on a Monday morning for the previous week. That was fair enough, even for people like me who worked on many different projects - I just kept track of what I was doing during the week. Then they shifted it to Friday afternoons, so the last thing we did in the week was fill out our timesheets. That was more annoying, if only because we wanted to get away.Sandpit said:
That sounds like one of my current customers, who struggles to see the productivity they’re losing by not having a single source of the truth emailed to everyone in the business overnight.
A decade ago I worked for a company with 10,000 employees that had their entire HR system on paper. Hundreds of holiday approval papers each requiring half a dozen signatures were on the desk of senior management every morning. They thought it was okay because the admin staff were cheap and those high up enough to make the decisions on upgrading to a proper HR system didn’t see the amount of time those just below them were wasting on shuffling papers around.
They then started taking the p*ss. We had to fill them out on Friday mornings, and finally Thursday afternoons. Which meant we had to guess what we'd be doing the next day, and which project(s) to bill it to. The changes were, apparently, to make the office and billing work more efficiently. They had no idea that some of us who actually worked for a living had to respond to customers, and therefore had no idea what we'd be doing day-by-day.
I'm not joking about this: we had to fill timesheets out over a day before the end of the timesheet's period!
I said 'towards the end of company X', and I meant it. I put much of the reason the company failed down to this sort of stupid b/s.0 -
Not any more. We voted against that last year.HYUFD said:
Though London is now effectively the capital of Europe just as New York is the effective capital of North America.another_richard said:So this is located in London - the capital city of the UK.
Now compare some of the other cities on the list:
Milan - not the capital of Italy
Barcelona - not the capital of Spain
Lille - not the capital of France
Bonn - not the capital of Germany
Do you get the idea that the 'benefits' of EU membership were too concentrated in too few places in the UK ?0 -
Big Pharma was, when I was involved with these things, somewhat ambivalent. Reason; regional sales managers for poorer countries tended to have higher sales that otherwise would be expected. And it was, apparfently/allegedly, easier to sell ointo those countries.rkrkrk said:
One other thing to keep an eye on will be if UK pharmacies can still re import medicines from Greece/wherever is cheapest and change the labels as necessary.NickPalmer said:
Yes, I may be out of date, but when I worked for Novartis the UK market was seen as one of the higher payers (and hence an early place to market - Spain was cheapest and last), and as an MP the ABPI lobbied to keep the existing complicated and not very transparent system rather than either simplify or harmonise with other countries.rkrkrk said:
I think it’s very debatable whether the NHS does drive a hard bargain on drugs prices.
On orphan drugs I think it’s clear we are getting ripped off in many cases.
I'd think that in practice we would normally recognise an EMA-approved drug as safe - it'd be bonkers to require fresh trials - in the same way that drugs approved by NICE as cost-effective usually have an easier time getting into other markets. In this particular case, I expect pragmatism to find a way.
And people can get used to Bratislava or wherever if they need to. The number who really quit their specialised jobs will, I think, be small. I don't particularly want to work in Magdeburg, say, but if that's where my job went, I'd need to go with it.
I’d imagine pharma will lobby hard against that being part of a final deal.
Also the poorer countries with cheaper drugs may not want it either.0 -
But everyone loves Mrs Merkel, right?williamglenn said:
No-one trusts the FDP leadership anymore.stodge said:Slightly puzzled by events in Germany. While I can understand the "Jamaica" option was always going to be difficult to put together, it seems odd that the FDP have walked out of the talks yet at the same time no one seems to be trying to put together a CDU/CSU/FDP coalition which you'd think would be the logical fit (even as a minority).
0 -
Mr. Sandpit, I've topped up on Bottas a bit.
Mr. Slackbladder, Merkel, Mugabe and May sitting on a wall, and if one shaky leader should accidentally fall there'll be two shaky leaders, sitting on a wall.0 -
Very worrying for the Uk that we are trying to negotiate with Merkel who is happier throwing out the pro-business, economically sensible FDP rather than the loonball Greens who want to wreck the economy and roll out the red carpet for refugees 3rd cousins twice removed from Syria.
The act of someone who would put the political project ahead of the prosperity of the voters.
Still - better off out of this project which isn't based on the voters wishes or sensible economics.0 -
That’s funny. How much rechargeable time never made the customers’ invoices because of crap like that? Would have cost them a fortune. Unfortunately corporate history is littered with dead companies that got taken over by the penpushers and papershufflers. As is government.JosiasJessop said:
Towards the end of company X, we had an incredibly poor timekeeping system. Originally we had to fill out our timesheets on a Monday morning for the previous week. That was fair enough, even for people like me who worked on many different projects - I just kept track of what I was doing during the week. Then they shifted it to Friday afternoons, so the last thing we did in the week was fill out our timesheets. That was more annoying, if only because we wanted to get away.Sandpit said:
That sounds like one of my current customers, who struggles to see the productivity they’re losing by not having a single source of the truth emailed to everyone in the business overnight.
A decade ago I worked for a company with 10,000 employees that had their entire HR system on paper. Hundreds of holiday approval papers each requiring half a dozen signatures were on the desk of senior management every morning. They thought it was okay because the admin staff were cheap and those high up enough to make the decisions on upgrading to a proper HR system didn’t see the amount of time those just below them were wasting on shuffling papers around.
They then started taking the p*ss. We had to fill them out on Friday mornings, and finally Thursday afternoons. Which meant we had to guess what we'd be doing the next day, and which project(s) to bill it to. The changes were, apparently, to make the office and billing work more efficiently. They had no idea that some of us who actually worked for a living had to respond to customers, and therefore had no idea what we'd be doing day-by-day.
I'm not joking about this: we had to fill timesheets out over a day before the end of the timesheet's period!
I said 'towards the end of company X', and I meant it. I put much of the reason the company failed down to this sort of stupid b/s.0 -
It will probably be the type of political statement that gets given when a statement feels necessary but you have nothing to say.Slackbladder said:zerohedge @zerohedge
GERMAN PRESIDENT STEINMEIER PLANS STATEMENT AT 2PM CET: RND
The bell tolleth for Angie?0 -
All political careers end in failure. Some just last longer than others.Slackbladder said:zerohedge @zerohedge
GERMAN PRESIDENT STEINMEIER PLANS STATEMENT AT 2PM CET: RND
The bell tolleth for Angie?0 -
The campaign for the station to be shifted to Sheffield was led by Sheffield council, not London. The opposing local authorities who wanted Meadowhall were fairly incompetent in their campaigns. The change was locally led, and not imposed (or even particularly wanted) by London.another_richard said:
A station at Meadowhall would benefit the rest of South Yorkshire (and even some of Sheffield) far more than a station in the centre of Sheffield.JosiasJessop said:
Why does an HS2 station in Sheffield rather than Meadowhall benefit London most, given that a station in Sheffield is what Sheffield were actively campaigning for?another_richard said:
Indeed.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Richard, worth noting that the UK/England has been more heavily centralised than most countries in Europe for a long time. Our second cities (Manchester, Leeds, Birmingham) are significantly smaller than the capital, whereas Germany's (Stuttgart, Frankfurt, Cologne) are, I think, a lot closer. That's just because of the way their country evolved.
I think it's more indicative of the lopsided nature of the UK and the political/media class than the EU, to be honest. You can also look at the disproportionate number of museums and art galleries in London.
Its a problem caused by the UK not the EU.
The bias towards London in transport spending is another example. Even things such as locating an HS2 station in Sheffield rather than at Meadowhall have the imprint of what benefits London most.
Although the current government has been much better at building useful roads.
Whereas, I rather suspect, that someone in London would be thinking in terms of going to central Sheffield rather than to the vast, free car park with excellent communications which Meadowhall is.
In fact, it's led to a fair amount of acrimony between councils in the region.
E.g.:
http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/how-hs2-sheffield-station-saga-helped-derail-devolution-hopes-1-87666020 -
Merkel seems keen to ignore the parties which made the biggest gains - brave.Mortimer said:
But everyone loves Mrs Merkel, right?williamglenn said:
No-one trusts the FDP leadership anymore.stodge said:Slightly puzzled by events in Germany. While I can understand the "Jamaica" option was always going to be difficult to put together, it seems odd that the FDP have walked out of the talks yet at the same time no one seems to be trying to put together a CDU/CSU/FDP coalition which you'd think would be the logical fit (even as a minority).
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Offtopic, be aware of using FaceID on your new iPhone X if you have adolescent kids that look a lot like you... https://www.wired.com/story/10-year-old-face-id-unlocks-mothers-iphone-x/0
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Mr. Jessop, one hopes Sheffield's council is doing a better job deciding on the HS2 route than it did on the seemingly insane tree contract.0
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According to CNN Mugabe has now agreed to resign.0
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What's the tree contract?Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Jessop, one hopes Sheffield's council is doing a better job deciding on the HS2 route than it did on the seemingly insane tree contract.
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Hasn’t London been a lot bigger than anywhere since the Plantagenets? (or thereabouts)foxinsoxuk said:
Not any more. We voted against that last year.HYUFD said:
Though London is now effectively the capital of Europe just as New York is the effective capital of North America.another_richard said:So this is located in London - the capital city of the UK.
Now compare some of the other cities on the list:
Milan - not the capital of Italy
Barcelona - not the capital of Spain
Lille - not the capital of France
Bonn - not the capital of Germany
Do you get the idea that the 'benefits' of EU membership were too concentrated in too few places in the UK ?0 -
Perhaps though the FDP has been in coalition with both the CDU and SPD in the past - indeed, they were part of the West German Government under both Brandt and Kohl (Genscher was Foreign Secretary for a number of years) and it didn't do them too much harm then. The Party seems to gravitate more to the centre-right than the centre-left and therefore a deal with the CDU seems the more comfortable option.IanB2 said:
The FDP has done well to fight back from its position below the 5% threshold, and they have close relations with the UK LibDems; the experience of the latter in coalition has probably made the FDP somewhat wary.
Again, I'm not wholly certain how the German system works but if the FDP won't go into Government with the Greens, are they now saying they would support a Government formed of the CDU and the Greens ? There seems a lack of logic.
0 -
Where is the Sheffield HS2 station ?
The only plans I've seen are for "HS2 services on existing track" 'spur' ?
Can someone point me to a doc or some such.0 -
If I could think of good business in which to invest, it’s probably an hotel with lots of meeting rooms that’s as close to Meadowhall station as possible.another_richard said:
A station at Meadowhall would benefit the rest of South Yorkshire (and even some of Sheffield) far more than a station in the centre of Sheffield.JosiasJessop said:
Why does an HS2 station in Sheffield rather than Meadowhall benefit London most, given that a station in Sheffield is what Sheffield were actively campaigning for?another_richard said:
Indeed.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Richard, worth noting that the UK/England has been more heavily centralised than most countries in Europe for a long time. Our second cities (Manchester, Leeds, Birmingham) are significantly smaller than the capital, whereas Germany's (Stuttgart, Frankfurt, Cologne) are, I think, a lot closer. That's just because of the way their country evolved.
I think it's more indicative of the lopsided nature of the UK and the political/media class than the EU, to be honest. You can also look at the disproportionate number of museums and art galleries in London.
Its a problem caused by the UK not the EU.
The bias towards London in transport spending is another example. Even things such as locating an HS2 station in Sheffield rather than at Meadowhall have the imprint of what benefits London most.
Although the current government has been much better at building useful roads.
Whereas, I rather suspect, that someone in London would be thinking in terms of going to central Sheffield rather than to the vast, free car park with excellent communications which Meadowhall is.0 -
Latest Catalonian poll still gives independence parties a majority:
http://www.elperiodico.com/es/politica/20171119/encuesta-elecciones-cataluna-2017-64345370 -
If I remember correctly, the reason was that management had a big meeting on Monday mornings to decide on stuff for the week ahead. Someone complained they were doing this on data that was a week out of date, so they asked for the timekeeping data of the last week for the meeting on Monday mornings. Since the timesheet system was paper based (in a tech company!), they involved a great deal of collating and data entry.Sandpit said:
That’s funny. How much rechargeable time never made the customers’ invoices because of crap like that? Would have cost them a fortune. Unfortunately corporate history is littered with dead companies that got taken over by the penpushers and papershufflers. As is government.JosiasJessop said:
Towards the end of company X, we had an incredibly poor timekeeping system. Originally we had to fill out our timesheets on a Monday morning for the previous week. That was fair enough, even for people like me who worked on many different projects - I just kept track of what I was doing during the week. Then they shifted it to Friday afternoons, so the last thing we did in the week was fill out our timesheets. That was more annoying, if only because we wanted to get away.Sandpit said:
That sounds like one of my current customers, who struggles to see the productivity they’re losing by not having a single source of the truth emailed to everyone in the business overnight.
A decade ago I worked for a company with 10,000 employees that had their entire HR system on paper. Hundreds of holiday approval papers each requiring half a dozen signatures were on the desk of senior management every morning. They thought it was okay because the admin staff were cheap and those high up enough to make the decisions on upgrading to a proper HR system didn’t see the amount of time those just below them were wasting on shuffling papers around.
They then started taking the p*ss. We had to fill them out on Friday mornings, and finally Thursday afternoons. Which meant we had to guess what we'd be doing the next day, and which project(s) to bill it to. The changes were, apparently, to make the office and billing work more efficiently. They had no idea that some of us who actually worked for a living had to respond to customers, and therefore had no idea what we'd be doing day-by-day.
I'm not joking about this: we had to fill timesheets out over a day before the end of the timesheet's period!
I said 'towards the end of company X', and I meant it. I put much of the reason the company failed down to this sort of stupid b/s.
If the information was that critical, the obvious answer would have been to pay someone to come in over the weekend and do it. Instead, they were getting invented data and pi**ed off employees.0 -
SheffieldPulpstar said:Where is the Sheffield HS2 station ?
The only plans I've seen are for "HS2 services on existing track" 'spur' ?
Can someone point me to a doc or some such.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-412775600 -
Do you have any evidence of that throwaway jibe ? A link to an erudite piece of analysis whether in German or English would be nice.williamglenn said:
No-one trusts the FDP leadership anymore.stodge said:Slightly puzzled by events in Germany. While I can understand the "Jamaica" option was always going to be difficult to put together, it seems odd that the FDP have walked out of the talks yet at the same time no one seems to be trying to put together a CDU/CSU/FDP coalition which you'd think would be the logical fit (even as a minority).
0 -
They’re still arguing about it.Pulpstar said:Where is the Sheffield HS2 station ?
The only plans I've seen are for "HS2 services on existing track" 'spur' ?
Can someone point me to a doc or some such.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/536075/South_Yorkshire_Station_Options_Report_07072016.pdf0 -
People have families and uprooting families is much harder. Spouses have careers of their own. Children are in schools. There may be elderly parents you want to be near to. It’s not just a question of a social life, though that matters too.NickPalmer said:
I'm sure - nobody likes bring compulsorily uprooted anyway. But it'll be an interesting test of the apparently frivolous idea that Frankfurt can't attract much new banking business because its nightlife is less exciting and brokers therefore don't want it. If the EMA goes to Bratislava (nice place, but probably not a hum of social whirl), it'll be an indication that the decision-makers shrug off whatthe staff fancy.DavidL said:On topic the idea that we would remain the host of EU institutions having left the EU is so absurd that I refuse to believe that anyone entertained it after a moment's thought. That said, there have been persistent rumours that the staff in both institutions don't want to leave.
Some people may move but others may decide that they don’t want to and skilled people like that have alternatives. And it may become harder to recruit.
What the staff fancy may not determine the decision but it would be a foolish organisation which did not take account of how easy or otherwise it is to recruit and maintain highly skilled staff when making its decision.0 -
I'd prefer it in Sheffield city centre.another_richard said:
A station at Meadowhall would benefit the rest of South Yorkshire (and even some of Sheffield) far more than a station in the centre of Sheffield.JosiasJessop said:
Why does an HS2 station in Sheffield rather than Meadowhall benefit London most, given that a station in Sheffield is what Sheffield were actively campaigning for?another_richard said:
Indeed.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Richard, worth noting that the UK/England has been more heavily centralised than most countries in Europe for a long time. Our second cities (Manchester, Leeds, Birmingham) are significantly smaller than the capital, whereas Germany's (Stuttgart, Frankfurt, Cologne) are, I think, a lot closer. That's just because of the way their country evolved.
I think it's more indicative of the lopsided nature of the UK and the political/media class than the EU, to be honest. You can also look at the disproportionate number of museums and art galleries in London.
Its a problem caused by the UK not the EU.
The bias towards London in transport spending is another example. Even things such as locating an HS2 station in Sheffield rather than at Meadowhall have the imprint of what benefits London most.
Although the current government has been much better at building useful roads.
Whereas, I rather suspect, that someone in London would be thinking in terms of going to central Sheffield rather than to the vast, free car park with excellent communications which Meadowhall is.
Congestion around Meadowhall is a nightmare, doubly so now that Ikea has opened, and I can't imagine what it'll be like when there's a gig on at the Arena.0 -
The EMA is ultimately regulated by the CJEU. The red line the UK government has created over the court's jurisdiction post-Brexit consequently rules out ongoing membership - full or associate - of a number of organisations of which we are currently a part. See also Euratom.Charles said:
I don't know if there is associate status - but it should be easy to create. All you need to do is delete words "you have to be a member of EU to be a member of EMA"OldKingCole said:
Thanks for that. I was hoping you’d comment. However, is there (yet) associate member status for the EMA. And it does seem, as per the document quoted, very disruptive and, health-wise, counter productive.Charles said:
Pan economic senseOldKingCole said:I went to a talk by an ex-head of what is now the MHRA a couple of weeks ago. He made several points. One is that because the EMA is situated in London much of the work our MHRA does is for the EMA, and the close proximity of the two organisations is, if not vital, very important. There’s a lot of money flowing both ways, and while some of this will continue, there will be barriers. Also, especially with medicines for rarer diseases, we benefit from pan-European studies; if/when we leave the EMA we may well not be part of the studies. There is of course sharing of scientific data but will the designs of such studies continue to allow direct comparisons. Probably, of course, but neither necessarity nor invariably.
We would also lose access to the wider EU scientific budget, where because of our experience we’re ‘pulling up’, in particulkar the Eastern countries and generally, as a result we get more than we put in.
In short, he was very, very concerned about the practical effects of Brexit on medicine safety in Europe as a whole, and in UK, and on the supply of medicines in UK.
NICE is a hurdle, as @foxinsoxuk notes, but every country has a similar set up. They are increasingly taking their lead from NICE as we have the most rigourous approach. I'd expect that to continue
Scientific budget doesn't matter - it's a recycling of UK money. If our government chooses to spend money there it can.
Japan is irrelevant to global development because their regulator insists on genetic bridging studies. The FDA will still be the most important followed by the EMA and MHRA/NICE will be significant.
But the rational outcome would be for us to remain an associate member of the EMA.
IIRC the guy I listened to was concerned not at alignment with the FDA’s requirments, but with the legal system in the USA.
Company drives interest in aligning with FDA (one set of trials not two). Not sure of the legal issues he is concerned with.
0 -
-
Urrrm, not any longer, surely? It's been moved to Sheffield station, and the line to the east re-routed. Unless there's been another change?TheScreamingEagles said:
SheffieldPulpstar said:Where is the Sheffield HS2 station ?
The only plans I've seen are for "HS2 services on existing track" 'spur' ?
Can someone point me to a doc or some such.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-41277560
edit: oooh, naughty TSE, editing your mistake.
0 -
They chose Sheffield train station in the summer.Sandpit said:
They’re still arguing about it.Pulpstar said:Where is the Sheffield HS2 station ?
The only plans I've seen are for "HS2 services on existing track" 'spur' ?
Can someone point me to a doc or some such.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/536075/South_Yorkshire_Station_Options_Report_07072016.pdf0 -
I think Paris was bigger till about 1800, Venice till about 1600.OldKingCole said:
Hasn’t London been a lot bigger than anywhere since the Plantagenets? (or thereabouts)foxinsoxuk said:
Not any more. We voted against that last year.HYUFD said:
Though London is now effectively the capital of Europe just as New York is the effective capital of North America.another_richard said:So this is located in London - the capital city of the UK.
Now compare some of the other cities on the list:
Milan - not the capital of Italy
Barcelona - not the capital of Spain
Lille - not the capital of France
Bonn - not the capital of Germany
Do you get the idea that the 'benefits' of EU membership were too concentrated in too few places in the UK ?0 -
A benefit of Brexit could well be that the international community forces the UK to accept the reality of its position as a prosperous, middle-ranking European country that is best off leaving the big boys to make the decisions. Our UN Security Council seat is also likely to come under intense review.TheScreamingEagles said:
0 -
Sorry, silly error. I meant anywhere else in England.Sean_F said:
I think Paris was bigger till about 1800, Venice till about 1600.OldKingCole said:
Hasn’t London been a lot bigger than anywhere since the Plantagenets? (or thereabouts)foxinsoxuk said:
Not any more. We voted against that last year.HYUFD said:
Though London is now effectively the capital of Europe just as New York is the effective capital of North America.another_richard said:So this is located in London - the capital city of the UK.
Now compare some of the other cities on the list:
Milan - not the capital of Italy
Barcelona - not the capital of Spain
Lille - not the capital of France
Bonn - not the capital of Germany
Do you get the idea that the 'benefits' of EU membership were too concentrated in too few places in the UK ?0 -
What pillock let IKEA build a store there? Its stupidly busy down that way at the best of times without Swedish furniture land as well.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'd prefer it in Sheffield city centre.another_richard said:
A station at Meadowhall would benefit the rest of South Yorkshire (and even some of Sheffield) far more than a station in the centre of Sheffield.JosiasJessop said:
Why does an HS2 station in Sheffield rather than Meadowhall benefit London most, given that a station in Sheffield is what Sheffield were actively campaigning for?another_richard said:
Indeed.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Richard, worth noting that the UK/England has been more heavily centralised than most countries in Europe for a long time. Our second cities (Manchester, Leeds, Birmingham) are significantly smaller than the capital, whereas Germany's (Stuttgart, Frankfurt, Cologne) are, I think, a lot closer. That's just because of the way their country evolved.
I think it's more indicative of the lopsided nature of the UK and the political/media class than the EU, to be honest. You can also look at the disproportionate number of museums and art galleries in London.
Its a problem caused by the UK not the EU.
The bias towards London in transport spending is another example. Even things such as locating an HS2 station in Sheffield rather than at Meadowhall have the imprint of what benefits London most.
Although the current government has been much better at building useful roads.
Whereas, I rather suspect, that someone in London would be thinking in terms of going to central Sheffield rather than to the vast, free car park with excellent communications which Meadowhall is.
Congestion around Meadowhall is a nightmare, doubly so now that Ikea has opened, and I can't imagine what it'll be like when there's a gig on at the Arena.
As for HS2 I'll believe it when I see it. This is BRITAIN. We don't do planning or long term - the first leg will over-run and be vastly more expensive than expected. They'll long grass the eastern leg (which isn't remotely needed from a capacity perspective the way the southern core and western legs are) and it'll never be built.
If nothing else it will be fabulously expensive to stick extra tracks in past Midland station, never mind the space for 400m long platforms.0 -
Puts all the stuff about everyone in the City moving out if Ed Miliband had won in 2015 into context.Cyclefree said:
People have families and uprooting families is much harder. Spouses have careers of their own. Children are in schools. There may be elderly parents you want to be near to. It’s not just a question of a social life, though that matters too.NickPalmer said:
I'm sure - nobody likes bring compulsorily uprooted anyway. But it'll be an interesting test of the apparently frivolous idea that Frankfurt can't attract much new banking business because its nightlife is less exciting and brokers therefore don't want it. If the EMA goes to Bratislava (nice place, but probably not a hum of social whirl), it'll be an indication that the decision-makers shrug off whatthe staff fancy.DavidL said:On topic the idea that we would remain the host of EU institutions having left the EU is so absurd that I refuse to believe that anyone entertained it after a moment's thought. That said, there have been persistent rumours that the staff in both institutions don't want to leave.
Some people may move but others may decide that they don’t want to and skilled people like that have alternatives. And it may become harder to recruit.
What the staff fancy may not determine the decision but it would be a foolish organisation which did not take account of how easy or otherwise it is to recruit and maintain highly skilled staff when making its decision.
0 -
Ah yes. That point was made by the guy I listened to.SouthamObserver said:
The EMA is ultimately regulated by the CJEU. The red line the UK government has created over the court's jurisdiction post-Brexit consequently rules out ongoing membership - full or associate - of a number of organisations of which we are currently a part. See also Euratom.Charles said:
I don't know if there is associate status - but it should be easy to create. All you need to do is delete words "you have to be a member of EU to be a member of EMA"OldKingCole said:
Thanks for that. I was hoping you’d comment. However, is there (yet) associate member status for the EMA. And it does seem, as per the document quoted, very disruptive and, health-wise, counter productive.Charles said:
Pan economic senseOldKingCole said:I went to a talk by an ex-head of what is now the MHRA a couple of weeks ago. He made several points. One is that because the EMA is situated in London much of the work our MHRA does is for the EMA, and the close proximity of the two organisations is, if not vital, very important. There’s a lot of money flowing both ways, and while some of this will continue, there will be barriers. Also, especially with medicines for rarer diseases, we benefit from pan-European studies; if/when we leave the EMA we may well not be part of the studies. There is of course sharing of scientific data but will the designs of such studies continue to allow direct comparisons. Probably, of course, but neither necessarity nor invariably.
We would also lose access to the wider EU scientific budget, where because of our experience we’re ‘pulling up’, in particulkar the Eastern countries and generally, as a result we get more than we put in.
In short, he was very, very concerned about the practical effects of Brexit on medicine safety in Europe as a whole, and in UK, and on the supply of medicines in UK.
NICE is a hurdle, as @foxinsoxuk notes, but every country has a similar set up. They are increasingly taking their lead from NICE as we have the most rigourous approach. I'd expect that to continue
Scientific budget doesn't matter - it's a recycling of UK money. If our government chooses to spend money there it can.
Japan is irrelevant to global development because their regulator insists on genetic bridging studies. The FDA will still be the most important followed by the EMA and MHRA/NICE will be significant.
But the rational outcome would be for us to remain an associate member of the EMA.
IIRC the guy I listened to was concerned not at alignment with the FDA’s requirments, but with the legal system in the USA.
Company drives interest in aligning with FDA (one set of trials not two). Not sure of the legal issues he is concerned with.0 -
Oh yeah? So where IS this new capital of Europe?foxinsoxuk said:
Not any more. We voted against that last year.HYUFD said:
Though London is now effectively the capital of Europe just as New York is the effective capital of North America.another_richard said:So this is located in London - the capital city of the UK.
Now compare some of the other cities on the list:
Milan - not the capital of Italy
Barcelona - not the capital of Spain
Lille - not the capital of France
Bonn - not the capital of Germany
Do you get the idea that the 'benefits' of EU membership were too concentrated in too few places in the UK ?
And how come nobody told Mr Market?0 -
The FDP have always been classical liberals and - in as far as these terms mean much when applied crudely - to the right of the CDU/CSU, on economic issues while to the left on social ones. A coalition with the Greens was always a hard sell and indeed, the FDP ruled it out before the election, only to go back on that afterwards - though clearly with an extremely wary eye as to what they might be getting into. It does help that the German Greens are a good deal more sensible than they once were, or than the UK version is.stodge said:
Perhaps though the FDP has been in coalition with both the CDU and SPD in the past - indeed, they were part of the West German Government under both Brandt and Kohl (Genscher was Foreign Secretary for a number of years) and it didn't do them too much harm then. The Party seems to gravitate more to the centre-right than the centre-left and therefore a deal with the CDU seems the more comfortable option.IanB2 said:
The FDP has done well to fight back from its position below the 5% threshold, and they have close relations with the UK LibDems; the experience of the latter in coalition has probably made the FDP somewhat wary.
Again, I'm not wholly certain how the German system works but if the FDP won't go into Government with the Greens, are they now saying they would support a Government formed of the CDU and the Greens ? There seems a lack of logic.
However, I really don't see a sustainable way out. There were only ever two numerically viable options: Jamaica and Grand Coalition 3 (excluding excessive and/or bonkers combinations). Both were unlikely because of the lack of willingness of the necessary participants. It is possible that a CDU-led minority government might strike a C&S deal with one or more parties but it'd be extremely flaky. New elections within a year seems to me, as it did as soon as the results came in, to remain the most likely outcome.
Quite why media commentators were proclaiming a solid win for Merkel is a mystery. The only reasonable explanation is that they didn't know what they were talking about and had been distracted by the awful result for the SPD from noticing how weak the CDU's position had become.0
