1) Remain. The 'Establishment' which is the larger part of the class that has been running the country and the international organisations, politics, the media etc, haven't given up on reversing the result. This is just part of the narrative. There may have been some interference, but the real interest here is to make that the story to de-legitimise the result of the Referendum.
2) The Internet and the battle to regulate it, and have the public accept that as the new normal. Trump and Brexit have scared the old media, governments and other supranational and international bodies. The dissemination of information (whether correct or false) is no longer under their control. For generations since the introduction of the mass media, there has been a large degree of control over the dissemination of information by governments. They have been able to apply pressure in the right places when necessary, and the mainstream media is inhabited largely by the same kinds of people who enter politics. Now the flow of information is in the hands of people who are 'not us'.
Yeah. 75% of Labour voters are "Establishment" and 75% of Tory voters are insurgents. Where do you get this guff ?
Only about 60% of Labour voters voted Remain and 60% of Tories voted Leave, not 75%.
The Leave victory was also the first time a majority of working class voters beat a majority of middle class voters since Wilson beat Heath in 1974. That is partly why the establishment are so annoyed as they are almost all middle class
My recollection is that there were three internationally well-known politicians who spoke in favour of Brexit - LePen, Trump and of course Putin. Pretty much everybody who was paying attention knew that and would have assumed, as I did, that their interest in the matter was based on the well-established principle of 'my enemy's enemy is my friend'. The electorate voted in the full knowledge of this, and indeed the corresponding support on the remain side from most world leaders, notably that dangerous scourge of liberal democracy, Barack Obama.
It was all just part of the noisy circumstances in which we made our choice. What's to complain about?
It seems both Clinton and Remain supporters are over hyping Russian involvement as a comfort blanket against how awful Hilary Clinton and the Remain campaigns were. Most any other democrat would have buried Trump and 'project fear' felled Remain
What evidence would be enough to convince us otherwise, then?
I am getting tired of arguments to campaign quality though. Nobody would be using the "crap campaign" meme if Clinton or Remain had won. I remember most people saying Trump was running a "crap campaign" at the time when it seemed he was losing. It's just an argument that the losers lost, which doesn't do much for me in explaining why things happened.
Telling people they only voted for Brexit because they were lied to did not work. So telling them that the Russians were behind some pro Brexir arguments is not going to work either.
Mr. Jonathan, then we get into quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Lack of trust in the police and politicians means people will just believe what they want anyway, and screenshotting and the like, as well as the rapid pace of the internet, means the regulators will always be slower than their quarry.
Not necessarily. It takes time to gain followers. Once an account is labelled as fake it becomes useless.
Not hard to create a bot to reply to fake news calling it out.
Not hard to create a bot to reply to news you don’t like calling it fake either. How do you distinguish between the bots?
A lot of this would be governed (in practice at least) by US law and they take the First Amendment very seriously.
A friend just came back from a financial services conference in La Paree yesterday. Super depressed about prospects for post-Brexit financial services on both sides.
Fear is that eg. listings will go to NY. Third country equivalence was never made for us, and was more suitable for peripheral third countries, rather than us so a sh*t show beckons on that side, plus the view is that although important to us, financial services is way down the overall Brexit priority of Europe as a whole.
As for the "Europe must behave rationally" argument, the French regulator pointed out that the UK hadn't behaved rationally by voting to Leave so why would anyone expect rational behaviour from either side now?
Still, on the bright side, Italy is out of the World Cup.
London will still be the main financial centre in Europe whatever happens and even today Davis has offered a special deal on migration for the City which you also managed to complain about yesterday
My recollection is that there were three internationally well-known politicians who spoke in favour of Brexit - LePen, Trump and of course Putin. Pretty much everybody who was paying attention knew that and would have assumed, as I did, that their interest in the matter was based on the well-established principle of 'my enemy's enemy is my friend'. The electorate voted in the full knowledge of this, and indeed the corresponding support on the remain side from most world leaders, notably that dangerous scourge of liberal democracy, Barack Obama.
It was all just part of the noisy circumstances in which we made our choice. What's to complain about?
It seems both Clinton and Remain supporters are over hyping Russian involvement as a comfort blanket against how awful Hilary Clinton and the Remain campaigns were. Most any other democrat would have buried Trump and 'project fear' felled Remain
What evidence would be enough to convince us otherwise, then?
I am getting tired of arguments to campaign quality though. Nobody would be using the "crap campaign" meme if Clinton or Remain had won. I remember most people saying Trump was running a "crap campaign" at the time when it seemed he was losing. It's just an argument that the losers lost, which doesn't do much for me in explaining why things happened.
Feel free to use the "crap campaign" meme for the Tories in the June election though.
Did you see Thor Ragnarok btw? I expected standard-issue Marvel hokum and was blown away: it was clever, funny, well-acted and the special effects made anything else I have ever seen look as if it was cooked up in the 70s by the BBC props department. And the soundtrack to the big battle scene is Led Zeppelin.
Mr. Jonathan, then we get into quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Lack of trust in the police and politicians means people will just believe what they want anyway, and screenshotting and the like, as well as the rapid pace of the internet, means the regulators will always be slower than their quarry.
Not necessarily. It takes time to gain followers. Once an account is labelled as fake it becomes useless.
Not hard to create a bot to reply to fake news calling it out.
That depends on how effective the bots are. A 'good' picture could gain tens of thousands of retweets virally before it's established that it's fake - and who's going to check the validity of a string of retweets or cut-and-pastes, even if it's possible?
As ever, the only true guard is the common sense of the people. If they need guarding from their lack of it, then we cease to be a functioning democracy.
Doesn't everything we've seen in the last year scream out that we need to re run the referendum? It was prejudiced from day one when the BBC and other news outlets were required to give equal weight to both sides. The result was that an ignorant public were convinced that expert opinion was equally divided when of course the true picture was overwhelmingly that leaving would be catastrophic.
No Roger - we need the politicians to grow up and support a great deal.
The Telegraph last night were outrageous and did not do leave any good.
Also TM has made a big error over the date and needs to reflect on how she resolves it.
TM is causing me concern, and this from a relative loyal conservative, and she needs to step up to the plate, increase the offer, and get on with it.
If and when we are ex EU and it does indeed prove a failure then there will be moves to seek a better deal with the EU or even re-join but I do not see how we get there wothout leaving
Is the "traitors" meme propagated to justify, due to extenuating circumstances of anti-Brexit sedition, the legitimacy of Russian intervention and other perversions of democracy?
I can't remember if I have mentioned this before, but I discovered something interesting the other day.
Famous historical anecdote: In 1972 Nixon, or Kissinger, or Whoever, asked Zhou Enlai what the long-term consequences of the French Revolution would be.
"It's too early to tell," was the sage reply, supposedly exemplifying the Chinese attitude of long-term-ism. But it turns out that Zhou probably misunderstood the question, and was talking about the student riots in Paris in 1968. The misapprehension was not corrected by the interpreter, who recognised the enigmaticness of the occasion.
Meanwhile, the Most Gorgeous Man Who Has Ever Lived in 40 today.
One of the queen’s ladies in waiting was making small talk with Madame de Gaulle during a state visit and asked her what she would like for Christmas “A penis” came the somewhat surprising reply, until one of the French officials attending clarified that she’d said was “Happiness”
Doesn't everything we've seen in the last year scream out that we need to re run the referendum? It was prejudiced from day one when the BBC and other news outlets were required to give equal weight to both sides. The result was that an ignorant public were convinced that expert opinion was equally divided when of course the true picture was the overwhelming belief that leaving would be catastrophic.
The Government spent many millions sending out a booklet to everyone telling them how great being in the EU is and to vote Remain.
Did you see Thor Ragnarok btw? I expected standard-issue Marvel hokum and was blown away: it was clever, funny, well-acted and the special effects made anything else I have ever seen look as if it was cooked up in the 70s by the BBC props department. And the soundtrack to the big battle scene is Led Zeppelin.
That sounds good. While we are recommending films Paddington 2 was even better than the first one.
My recollection is that there were three internationally well-known politicians who spoke in favour of Brexit - LePen, Trump and of course Putin. Pretty much everybody who was paying attention knew that and would have assumed, as I did, that their interest in the matter was based on the well-established principle of 'my enemy's enemy is my friend'. The electorate voted in the full knowledge of this, and indeed the corresponding support on the remain side from most world leaders, notably that dangerous scourge of liberal democracy, Barack Obama.
It was all just part of the noisy circumstances in which we made our choice. What's to complain about?
It seems both Clinton and Remain supporters are over hyping Russian involvement as a comfort blanket against how awful Hilary Clinton and the Remain campaigns were. Most any other democrat would have buried Trump and 'project fear' felled Remain
That may well be true but in a close election - and it was a close election - any number of things can tip the balance. If one of those is foreign interference then you have a problem.
Put it another way: would anyone think it acceptable to say that to win, you need the support of, say, 55% of the Electoral College, whereas your opponent needs only 45%, because foreign intervention will make up the gap?
I am not at all convinced about Russia having any real effect on the voting but I am open to be proved wrong
A friend just came back from a financial services conference in La Paree yesterday. Super depressed about prospects for post-Brexit financial services on both sides.
Fear is that eg. listings will go to NY. Third country equivalence was never made for us, and was more suitable for peripheral third countries, rather than us so a sh*t show beckons on that side, plus the view is that although important to us, financial services is way down the overall Brexit priority of Europe as a whole.
As for the "Europe must behave rationally" argument, the French regulator pointed out that the UK hadn't behaved rationally by voting to Leave so why would anyone expect rational behaviour from either side now?
Still, on the bright side, Italy is out of the World Cup.
London will still be the main financial centre in Europe whatever happens and even today Davis has offered a special deal on migration for the City which you also managed to complain about yesterday
You understand nothing. Why you expose this simple fact so regularly is one of life's mysteries.
London is very likely to remain the main financial centre in Europe. That is not the point; the point is that it will be diminished and other locations will catch up, in this case the reference was to NY (that's New York if you weren't sure).
As for me complaining about the special deal Davis offered to the City, I didn't complain, you dolt. I simply pondered on the irony of people like you lauding the fact that the elite financial service workers are being given a special deal when it was supposedly to cock a snook at the elite and register a protest at having been left behind that dolts like you actually voted for Brexit in the first place.
Did you see Thor Ragnarok btw? I expected standard-issue Marvel hokum and was blown away: it was clever, funny, well-acted and the special effects made anything else I have ever seen look as if it was cooked up in the 70s by the BBC props department. And the soundtrack to the big battle scene is Led Zeppelin.
I have seen it, several times,
I loved it, I like my Marvel stuff and Tom Hiddleston too.
My recollection is that there were three internationally well-known politicians who spoke in favour of Brexit - LePen, Trump and of course Putin. Pretty much everybody who was paying attention knew that and would have assumed, as I did, that their interest in the matter was based on the well-established principle of 'my enemy's enemy is my friend'. The electorate voted in the full knowledge of this, and indeed the corresponding support on the remain side from most world leaders, notably that dangerous scourge of liberal democracy, Barack Obama.
It was all just part of the noisy circumstances in which we made our choice. What's to complain about?
It seems both Clinton and Remain supporters are over hyping Russian involvement as a comfort blanket against how awful Hilary Clinton and the Remain campaigns were. Most any other democrat would have buried Trump and 'project fear' felled Remain
That may well be true but in a close election - and it was a close election - any number of things can tip the balance. If one of those is foreign interference then you have a problem.
Put it another way: would anyone think it acceptable to say that to win, you need the support of, say, 55% of the Electoral College, whereas your opponent needs only 45%, because foreign intervention will make up the gap?
I am not at all convinced about Russia having any real effect on the voting but I am open to be proved wrong
What anyone can do about it I have no idea
declare the result invalid and have a re-run?
although of course that would lead directly to the Winchester effect.
The Remainer fear seems to be that Twitter users could be brainwashed by Russians or other foreigners. If we have another referendum, let's restrict it to over-25s.
The Remainer fear seems to be that Twitter users could be brainwashed by Russians or other foreigners. If we have another referendum, let's restrict it to over-25s.
My recollection is that there were three internationally well-known politicians who spoke in favour of Brexit - LePen, Trump and of course Putin. Pretty much everybody who was paying attention knew that and would have assumed, as I did, that their interest in the matter was based on the well-established principle of 'my enemy's enemy is my friend'. The electorate voted in the full knowledge of this, and indeed the corresponding support on the remain side from most world leaders, notably that dangerous scourge of liberal democracy, Barack Obama.
It was all just part of the noisy circumstances in which we made our choice. What's to complain about?
It seems both Clinton and Remain supporters are over hyping Russian involvement as a comfort blanket against how awful Hilary Clinton and the Remain campaigns were. Most any other democrat would have buried Trump and 'project fear' felled Remain
That may well be true but in a close election - and it was a close election - any number of things can tip the balance. If one of those is foreign interference then you have a problem.
Put it another way: would anyone think it acceptable to say that to win, you need the support of, say, 55% of the Electoral College, whereas your opponent needs only 45%, because foreign intervention will make up the gap?
I am not at all convinced about Russia having any real effect on the voting but I am open to be proved wrong
What anyone can do about it I have no idea
declare the result invalid and have a re-run?
although of course that would lead directly to the Winchester effect.
A friend just came back from a financial services conference in La Paree yesterday. Super depressed about prospects for post-Brexit financial services on both sides.
Fear is that eg. listings will go to NY. Third country equivalence was never made for us, and was more suitable for peripheral third countries, rather than us so a sh*t show beckons on that side, plus the view is that although important to us, financial services is way down the overall Brexit priority of Europe as a whole.
As for the "Europe must behave rationally" argument, the French regulator pointed out that the UK hadn't behaved rationally by voting to Leave so why would anyone expect rational behaviour from either side now?
Still, on the bright side, Italy is out of the World Cup.
London will still be the main financial centre in Europe whatever happens and even today Davis has offered a special deal on migration for the City which you also managed to complain about yesterday
A friend just came back from a financial services conference in La Paree yesterday. Super depressed about prospects for post-Brexit financial services on both sides.
Fear is that eg. listings will go to NY. Third country equivalence was never made for us, and was more suitable for peripheral third countries, rather than us so a sh*t show beckons on that side, plus the view is that although important to us, financial services is way down the overall Brexit priority of Europe as a whole.
As for the "Europe must behave rationally" argument, the French regulator pointed out that the UK hadn't behaved rationally by voting to Leave so why would anyone expect rational behaviour from either side now?
Still, on the bright side, Italy is out of the World Cup.
London will still be the main financial centre in Europe whatever happens and even today Davis has offered a special deal on migration for the City which you also managed to complain about yesterday
You understand nothing. Why you expose this simple fact so regularly is one of life's mysteries.
London is very likely to remain the main financial centre in Europe. That is not the point; the point is that it will be diminished and other locations will catch up, in this case the reference was to NY (that's New York if you weren't sure).
As for me complaining about the special deal Davis offered to the City, I didn't complain, you dolt. I simply pondered on the irony of people like you lauding the fact that the elite financial service workers are being given a special deal when it was supposedly to cock a snook at the elite and register a protest at having been left behind that dolts like you actually voted for Brexit in the first place.
The Remainer fear seems to be that Twitter users could be brainwashed by Russians or other foreigners. If we have another referendum, let's restrict it to over-25s.
Problem solved.
Any second referendum should be restricted to those who voted Leave, to get their sign off for the final type of negotiated Brexit.....
Anyone think of a lower bar to hurdle? It's actually lying on the ground....
Better than IDS/Theresa May?
Theresa May was appointed Prime Minister by her party - and is still Prime Minister after the voters have spoken. So Gordon Brown would be more apt for the low bar. Having also failed to end boom and bust in a quite apocalyptic way.
Did you see Thor Ragnarok btw? I expected standard-issue Marvel hokum and was blown away: it was clever, funny, well-acted and the special effects made anything else I have ever seen look as if it was cooked up in the 70s by the BBC props department. And the soundtrack to the big battle scene is Led Zeppelin.
I have seen it, several times,
I loved it, I like my Marvel stuff and Tom Hiddleston too.
Even the Good Lady Wifi really enjoyed Thor Ragnarok - and she is about as far removed from the Marvel target audience as you could get. (Even after Tom Hiddleston ate nearly all her box of Prestat salted caramel chocolates....)
A friend just came back from a financial services conference in La Paree yesterday. Super depressed about prospects for post-Brexit financial services on both sides.
Fear is that eg. listings will go to NY. Third country equivalence was never made for us, and was more suitable for peripheral third countries, rather than us so a sh*t show beckons on that side, plus the view is that although important to us, financial services is way down the overall Brexit priority of Europe as a whole.
As for the "Europe must behave rationally" argument, the French regulator pointed out that the UK hadn't behaved rationally by voting to Leave so why would anyone expect rational behaviour from either side now?
Still, on the bright side, Italy is out of the World Cup.
London will still be the main financial centre in Europe whatever happens and even today Davis has offered a special deal on migration for the City which you also managed to complain about yesterday
You understand nothing. Why you expose this simple fact so regularly is one of life's mysteries.
London is very likely to remain the main financial centre in Europe. That is not the point; the point is that it will be diminished and other locations will catch up, in this case the reference was to NY (that's New York if you weren't sure).
As for me complaining about the special deal Davis offered to the City, I didn't complain, you dolt. I simply pondered on the irony of people like you lauding the fact that the elite financial service workers are being given a special deal when it was supposedly to cock a snook at the elite and register a protest at having been left behind that dolts like you actually voted for Brexit in the first place.
So what? New York and London may change places back and forth but they are streets ahead of their rivals in North America and Europe and have more in common with each other than their European and US and Canadian rivals.
I of course voted Remain but most Leave voters voted for immigration controls on low skilled immigration and an end to free movement from Eastern Europe in particular and its replacement with a points system. It was not bankers from France and Germany coming to London which led to the Leave vote but immigration from Eastern Europe to the North and Midlands after Blair failed to impose transition controls on free movement from the new accession countries in 2004.
People who wanted to vote against the financial sector and to tax the rich more voted for Corbyn, that was not a prime motivator of the Leave vote which was restoring sovereignty and reducing low skilled immigration.
A friend just came back from a financial services conference in La Paree yesterday. Super depressed about prospects for post-Brexit financial services on both sides.
Fear is that eg.out of the World Cup.
London will still be the main financial centre in Europe whatever happens and even today Davis has offered a special deal on migration for the City which you also managed to complain about yesterday
You understand nothing. Why you expose this simple fact so regularly is one of life's mysteries.
London is very likely to remain the main financial centre in Europe. That is not the point; the point is that it will be diminished and other locations will catch up, in this case the reference was to NY (that's New York if you weren't sure).
As for me complaining about the special deal Davis offered to the City, I didn't complain, you dolt. I simply pondered on the irony of people like you lauding the fact that the elite financial service workers are being given a special deal when it was supposedly to cock a snook at the elite and register a protest at having been left behind that dolts like you actually voted for Brexit in the first place.
So what? New York and London may change places back and forth but they are streets ahead of their rivals in North America and Europe and have more in common with each other than their European and US and Canadian rivals.
I of course voted Remain but most Leave voters voted for immigration controls on low skilled immigration and an end to free movement from Eastern Europe in particular and its replacement with a points system. It was not bankers from France and Germany coming to London which led to the Leave vote but immigration from Eastern Europe to the North and Midlands after Blair failed to impose transition controls on free movement from the new accession countries in 2004.
People who wanted to vote against the financial sector and to tax the rich more voted for Corbyn, that was not a prime motivator of the Leave vote which was restoring sovereignty and reducing low skilled immigration.
I said "dolts like you".
This is one of your classics: "most Leave voters voted for immigration controls on low skilled immigration and an end to free movement from Eastern Europe in particular and its replacement with a points system."
Such precision of understanding. Plus it's not even true on PB FFS, let alone the rest of the country, again as if the f&ck you would know.
Doesn't everything we've seen in the last year scream out that we need to re run the referendum? It was prejudiced from day one when the BBC and other news outlets were required to give equal weight to both sides. The result was that an ignorant public were convinced that expert opinion was equally divided when of course the true picture was overwhelmingly that leaving would be catastrophic.
No Roger - we need the politicians to grow up and support a great deal.
The Telegraph last night were outrageous and did not do leave any good.
Also TM has made a big error over the date and needs to reflect on how she resolves it.
TM is causing me concern, and this from a relative loyal conservative, and she needs to step up to the plate, increase the offer, and get on with it.
If and when we are ex EU and it does indeed prove a failure then there will be moves to seek a better deal with the EU or even re-join but I do not see how we get there wothout leaving
That will lead to decades of internal division while the country slowly goes down the drain. Unfortunately this just hasn't been thought through and things will never be the same again. And as the EU closes ranks it will get even worse.
When we could see the spivs who were behind the Leave campaign it's a mystery to me why no one bothered to join the dots.
Mr. Jonathan, then we get into quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Lack of trust in the police and politicians means people will just believe what they want anyway, and screenshotting and the like, as well as the rapid pace of the internet, means the regulators will always be slower than their quarry.
Not necessarily. It takes time to gain followers. Once an account is labelled as fake it becomes useless.
Not hard to create a bot to reply to fake news calling it out.
That depends on how effective the bots are. A 'good' picture could gain tens of thousands of retweets virally before it's established that it's fake - and who's going to check the validity of a string of retweets or cut-and-pastes, even if it's possible?
As ever, the only true guard is the common sense of the people. If they need guarding from their lack of it, then we cease to be a functioning democracy.
So apparently Facebook now integrates fact-checking to pick up bogus articles; The hitch is that on average it takes 3 days...
However, some of the problem can be traced to bad UI design. For example, the way Facebook were presenting previews of news articles would conceal the source, so you could make a purely made-up news article look to most readers exactly like a genuine one. I think things will get a bit better as UI people learn to think adversarially, but the incentives for these sites to fix things are mixed to say the least, as conflict and indignation are great drivers of engagement.
We can also develop better social defences; One that springs to mind is relentlessly taking the piss out of gullible friends and relatives who spread bullshit. It's one thing this site is actually quite good at; With a few mysteriously obtuse exceptions, people who post here generally get better at posting stuff that's at least vaguely grounded in fact, because that's what the social dynamics encourage.
The UK unemployment rate for July to September 2017 was 4.3% – the joint lowest rate since 1975 http://ow.ly/nnVM30gAAuw
Excellent news. I'm so happy we sent all those low-skilled Eastern European workers back home last year.
Remainers and facts avoiding each other again.
ONSVerified account @ONS 36s36 seconds ago More In Jul-Sep 2017, the number of non-UK nationals in work went up by 89k year-on-year http://ow.ly/nnVM30gAAuw
Doesn't everything we've seen in the last year scream out that we need to re run the referendum? It was prejudiced from day one when the BBC and other news outlets were required to give equal weight to both sides. The result was that an ignorant public were convinced that expert opinion was equally divided when of course the true picture was overwhelmingly that leaving would be catastrophic.
No Roger - we need the politicians to grow up and support a great deal.
The Telegraph last night were outrageous and did not do leave any good.
Also TM has made a big error over the date and needs to reflect on how she resolves it.
TM is causing me concern, and this from a relative loyal conservative, and she needs to step up to the plate, increase the offer, and get on with it.
If and when we are ex EU and it does indeed prove a failure then there will be moves to seek a better deal with the EU or even re-join but I do not see how we get there wothout leaving
That will lead to decades of internal division while the country slowly goes dow the drain. Unfortunately this just has't been thought through and things will never be the same again and as the EU closes ranks it will get even worse.
When we could see the spivs who were behind the Leave campaign it's a mystery to me why no one bothered to join the dots.
We are where we are and no amount of frustration with the more extreme leave campaigners is going to have an effect.
I do think you put too much faith in the EU which is riven with problems and is facing many threats from within which may yet see it self destruct.
If the EU or more specifically Junckers had had sense and given some ground to Cameron on immigration we would not be here.
Junckers legacy will be that he was in place when the UK exited and he will be severely tarnished
The UK unemployment rate for July to September 2017 was 4.3% – the joint lowest rate since 1975 http://ow.ly/nnVM30gAAuw
Excellent news. I'm so happy we sent all those low-skilled Eastern European workers back home last year.
Remainers and facts avoiding each other again.
ONSVerified account @ONS 36s36 seconds ago More In Jul-Sep 2017, the number of non-UK nationals in work went up by 89k year-on-year http://ow.ly/nnVM30gAAuw
WHAT???????????
You mean that there are more non-UK nationals in work and STILL we have the lowest unemployment rate for 30 years?
Did you see Thor Ragnarok btw? I expected standard-issue Marvel hokum and was blown away: it was clever, funny, well-acted and the special effects made anything else I have ever seen look as if it was cooked up in the 70s by the BBC props department. And the soundtrack to the big battle scene is Led Zeppelin.
I have seen it, several times,
I loved it, I like my Marvel stuff and Tom Hiddleston too.
Even the Good Lady Wifi really enjoyed Thor Ragnarok - and she is about as far removed from the Marvel target audience as you could get. (Even after Tom Hiddleston ate nearly all her box of Prestat salted caramel chocolates....)
If you haven't seen it Paddington 2 is a hoot too - Hugh Grant having great fun......
The UK unemployment rate for July to September 2017 was 4.3% – the joint lowest rate since 1975 http://ow.ly/nnVM30gAAuw
A tribute to the magnificent stewardship of the economy by George Osborne and Phil Hammond. .
George and Phil are responsible you say ?
ONSVerified account @ONS 6m6 minutes ago More Replying to @ONS Jul-Sep 2017 was the sixth three-month period in a row where earnings including bonuses fell in real terms http://ow.ly/nnVM30gAAuw
A friend just came back from a financial services conference in La Paree yesterday. Super depressed about prospects for post-Brexit financial services on both sides.
Feara whole.
As side now?
Still, on the bright side, Italy is out of the World Cup.
London will still be the main financial centre in Europe whatever happens and even today Davis has offered a special deal on migration for the City which you also managed to complain about yesterday
You understand nothing. Why you expose this simple fact so regularly is one of life's mysteries.
London is very likely to remain the main financial centre in Europe. That is not the point; the point is that it will be diminished and other locations will catch up, in this case the reference was to NY (that's New York if you weren't sure).
As for me complaining about the special deal Davis offered to the City, I didn't complain, you dolt. I simply pondered on the irony of people like you lauding the fact that the elite financial service workers are being given a special deal when it was supposedly to cock a snook at the elite and register a protest at having been left behind that dolts like you actually voted for Brexit in the first place.
So what? New York and London may change places back and forth but they are streets ahead of their rivals in North America and Europe and have more in common with each other than their European and US and Canadian rivals.
I of course voted Remain but most Leave voters voted for immigration controls on low skilled immigration and an end to free movement from Eastern Europe in particular and its replacement with a points system. It was not bankers from France and Germany coming to London which led to the Leave vote but immigration from Eastern Europe to the North and Midlands after Blair failed to impose transition controls on free movement from the new accession countries in 2004.
People who wanted to vote against the financial sector and to tax the rich more voted for Corbyn, that was not a prime motivator of the Leave vote which was restoring sovereignty and reducing low skilled immigration.
High paid jobs that leave the UK, along with profitable businesses, mean less tax income and less economic activity. The more work that shifts to other places, the less money generated for the government.
I did not see a points-based immigration system specifically designed to exclude low-skilled Eastern Europeans from coming to the UK on my ballot. Maybe I got the wrong one.
Did you see Thor Ragnarok btw? I expected standard-issue Marvel hokum and was blown away: it was clever, funny, well-acted and the special effects made anything else I have ever seen look as if it was cooked up in the 70s by the BBC props department. And the soundtrack to the big battle scene is Led Zeppelin.
I have seen it, several times,
I loved it, I like my Marvel stuff and Tom Hiddleston too.
Even the Good Lady Wifi really enjoyed Thor Ragnarok - and she is about as far removed from the Marvel target audience as you could get. (Even after Tom Hiddleston ate nearly all her box of Prestat salted caramel chocolates....)
If you haven't seen it Paddington 2 is a hoot too - Hugh Grant having great fun......
On the list for the weekend. (Although to ensure she gets to eat some of her pick-n-mix, we aren't taking Hiddleston....)
A friend just came back from a financial services conference in La Paree yesterday. Super depressed about prospects for post-Brexit financial services on both sides.
Fear is that eg.out of the World Cup.
London will still be the main financial centre in Europe whatever happens and even today Davis has offered a special deal on migration for the City which you also managed to complain about yesterday
You understand nothing. Why you expose this simple fact so regularly is one of life's mysteries.
London is very likely to remain the main financial centre in Europe. That is not the point; the point is that it will be diminished and other locations will catch up, in this case the reference was to NY (that's New York if you weren't sure).
As for me complaining about the special deal Davis offered to the City, I didn't complain, you dolt. I simply pondered on the irony of people like you lauding the fact that the elite financial service workers are being given a special deal when it was supposedly to cock a snook at the elite and register a protest at having been left behind that dolts like you actually voted for Brexit in the first place.
So what? New York and London may change places back and forth but they are streets ahead of their rivals in North America and Europe and have more in common with each other than their European and US and Canadian rivals.
I of course voted Remain but most Leave voters voted for nst the financial sector and to tax the ion.
I said "dolts like you".
This is one of your classics: "most Leave voters voted for immigration controls on low skilled immigration and an end to free movement from Eastern Europe in particular and its replacement with a points system."
Such precision of understanding. Plus it's not even true on PB FFS, let alone the rest of the country, again as if the f&ck you would know.
You assumed I voted Leave, I did not.
Again a completely factless response from you as usual littered with insults. All the polling shows it is low skilled not high skilled immigration voters wanted reduced.
A working class voter in the North and Midlands could vote Leave in June 2016 to reduce low skilled immigration which was undercutting their wages and putting pressure on local services, then vote for Corbyn in June 2017 to increase taxes on the rich and bash the financial sector and end austerity and many did precisely that.
In retrospect the May campaign ended up being almost as establishment as the Remain campaign, defending austerity as the latter defended the EU.
This was all pretty obvious at the time (indeed, was the catalyst for "vapid bilge", one of the site's catchphrases).
Mind you, it is entertaining to see pb's useful idiots seamlessly move from their position then, which was that it wasn't happening, to their position now, which is that it didn't make any difference.
A friend just came back from a financial services conference in La Paree yesterday. Super depressed about prospects for post-Brexit financial services on both sides.
Fear is that eg.out of the World Cup.
London will still be the main financial centre in Europe whatever happens and even today Davis has offered a special deal on migration for the City which you also managed to complain about yesterday
You understand nothing. Why you expose this simple fact so regularly is one of life's mysteries.
SNIP
As for me complaining about the special deal Davis offered to the City, I didn't complain, you dolt. I simply pondered on the irony of people like you lauding the fact that the elite financial service workers are being given a special deal when it was supposedly to cock a snook at the elite and register a protest at having been left behind that dolts like you actually voted for Brexit in the first place.
So what? New York and London may change places back and forth but they are streets ahead of their rivals in North America and Europe and have more in common with each other than their European and US and Canadian rivals.
I of course voted Remain but most Leave voters voted for immigration controls on low skilled immigration and an end to free movement from Eastern Europe in particular and its replacement with a points system. It was not bankers from France and Germany coming to London which led to the Leave vote but immigration from Eastern Europe to the North and Midlands after Blair failed to impose transition controls on free movement from the new accession countries in 2004.
People who wanted to vote against the financial sector and to tax the rich more voted for Corbyn, that was not a prime motivator of the Leave vote which was restoring sovereignty and reducing low skilled immigration.
I said "dolts like you".
This is one of your classics: "most Leave voters voted for immigration controls on low skilled immigration and an end to free movement from Eastern Europe in particular and its replacement with a points system."
Such precision of understanding. Plus it's not even true on PB FFS, let alone the rest of the country, again as if the f&ck you would know.
TOPPING, we get it; you and people like you are used to getting your own way. On Brexit you haven't. As this is a new experience, it's not surprising you're struggling to accept it. With time, you will.
Endlessly calling other people stupid is not interesting, clever, or a good use of anyone's time.
Doesn't everything we've seen in the last year scream out that we need to re run the referendum? It was prejudiced from day one when the BBC and other news outlets were required to give equal weight to both sides. The result was that an ignorant public were convinced that expert opinion was equally divided when of course the true picture was the overwhelming belief that leaving would be catastrophic.
Why would a second referendum go any better, when Remainers are choosing paranoid Russian fantasies over working out why the campaign didn't work?
The UK unemployment rate for July to September 2017 was 4.3% – the joint lowest rate since 1975 http://ow.ly/nnVM30gAAuw
A tribute to the magnificent stewardship of the economy by George Osborne and Phil Hammond. .
George and Phil are responsible you say ?
ONSVerified account @ONS 6m6 minutes ago More Replying to @ONS Jul-Sep 2017 was the sixth three-month period in a row where earnings including bonuses fell in real terms http://ow.ly/nnVM30gAAuw
That's because of Brexit/the fear of Brexit/The vote to Leave.
"almost 45,000 messages" sounds like a Sorry I haven't a Clue gag - we have received almost two letters this week from a Mrs Trellis of North Wales. Paying any attention to this stuff is dancing to Putin's tune. Let's just put TWEETCRIME on the same list as BUSCRIME and TURKCRIME, and move on.
A friend just came back from a financial services conference in La Paree yesterday. Super depressed about prospects for post-Brexit financial services on both sides.
Feara whole.
As side now?
Still, on the bright side, Italy is out of the World Cup.
London will still be the main financial centre in Europe whatever happens and even today Davis has offered a special deal on migration for the City which you also managed to complain about yesterday
You understand nothing. Why you expose this simple fact so regularly is one of life's mysteries.
London is very likely to remain the main financial centre in Europe. That is not the point; the point is that it will be diminished and other locations will catch up, in this case the reference was to NY (that's New York if you weren't sure).
As for me complaining about the special deal Davis offered to the City, I didn't complain, you dolt. I simply pondered on the irony of people like you lauding the fact that the elite financial service workers are being given a special deal when it was supposedly to cock a snook at the elite and register a protest at having been left behind that dolts like you actually voted for Brexit in the first place.
So what? New York and London may change places back and forth but they are streets ahead of their rivals in North America and Europe and have more in common with each other than their European and US and Canadian rivals.
I of course voted Remain but most Leave voters voted for immigration controls on low skilled
High paid jobs that leave the UK, along with profitable businesses, mean less tax income and less economic activity. The more work that shifts to other places, the less money generated for the government.
I did not see a points-based immigration system specifically designed to exclude low-skilled Eastern Europeans from coming to the UK on my ballot. Maybe I got the wrong one.
Just as well Davis is giving the City a special deal on migration then.
It was of course Blair's failure to impose transition controls on free movement from the new accession countries in Eastern Europe in 2004 which was pivotal in getting Leave to 52%.
Would you have been this blasé about Russian meddling it Remain had won 52/48 and it later transpired Putin’s troll army had been backing Remain ?
As a Leaver I dont think we can skate over this so easily
We've already established that Remainers are people so intellectually void that they were outwitted by a bus. Indeed we know this becasue they regularly come on on PB and boast of the fact.
Now it seems that not only have they been duped by a bus but that millions of them cant tweet and chew gum at the same tiime. They get easily confused by trolls who dont speak english as their first language sat 2000 miles away. Millions of them thought Leave meant staying in because they read it on the internet and now it turns out it doesnt.
I cant see any easy way out of this except to ban twitter and ask everyone saying they want to remain to go back to school to learn english.
They'll have to walk as their track history with buses isnt good.
Remainers are true Thatcherites, Leavers are communist failures.
A man who, beyond the age of 26, finds himself on a bus can count himself as a failure.
Where does that leave party leaders at election time? And have you really never had to take a bus-replacement service?
We're talking about public busses.
One of the joys of Manchester Piccadilly is that there's an Enterprise-Rent-A-Car within 2 mins walk of it, so if there's a replacement bus service, I can hire a car instead, or I go back to the flat instead.
If we are talking about public busses, then doesn’t your original quip lose its point?
No.
Leavers are used to busses, Remainers aren't because we're more successful.
A friend just came back from a financial services conference in La Paree yesterday. Super depressed about prospects for post-Brexit financial services on both sides.
Fear is that eg.out of the World Cup.
London will still be the main financial centre in Europe whatever happens and even today Davis has offered a special deal on migration for the City which you also managed to complain about yesterday
You understand nothing. Why you expose this simple fact so regularly is one of life's mysteries.
SNIP
As for me complaining about the special deal Davis offered to the City, I didn't complain, you dolt. I simply pondered on the irony of people like you lauding the fact that the elite financial service workers are being given a special deal when it was supposedly to cock a snook at the elite and register a protest at having been left behind that dolts like you actually voted for Brexit in the first place.
So what? New York and London may change places back and forth but they are streets ahead of their rivals in North America and Europe and have more in common with each other than their European and US and Canadian rivals.
I of course voted Remain but most Leave voters voted for immigration controls on low skilled immigration and an end to free movement from Eastern Europe in particular and its replacement with a points system. It was not bankers from France and Germany coming to London which led to the Leave vote but immigration from Eastern Europe to the North and Midlands after Blair failed to impose transition controls on free movement from the new accession countries in 2004.
People who wanted to vote against the financial sector and to tax the rich more voted for Corbyn, that was not a prime motivator of the Leave vote which was restoring sovereignty and reducing low skilled immigration.
I said "dolts like you".
This is one of your classics: "most Leave voters voted for immigration controls on low skilled immigration and an end to free movement from Eastern Europe in particular and its replacement with a points system."
Such precision of understanding. Plus it's not even true on PB FFS, let alone the rest of the country, again as if the f&ck you would know.
TOPPING, we get it; you and people like you are used to getting your own way. On Brexit you haven't. As this is a new experience, it's not surprising you're struggling to accept it. With time, you will.
Endlessly calling other people stupid is not interesting, clever, or a good use of anyone's time.
The UK unemployment rate for July to September 2017 was 4.3% – the joint lowest rate since 1975 http://ow.ly/nnVM30gAAuw
A tribute to the magnificent stewardship of the economy by George Osborne and Phil Hammond. .
George and Phil are responsible you say ?
ONSVerified account @ONS 6m6 minutes ago More Replying to @ONS Jul-Sep 2017 was the sixth three-month period in a row where earnings including bonuses fell in real terms http://ow.ly/nnVM30gAAuw
That's because of Brexit/the fear of Brexit/The vote to Leave.
Nothing to do with the crap Hillary and Remain campaigns of course
Psst....
Have you heard?
*leans in* Things. Can. Have. Multiple. Causes.
(And I think the failures of both those campaigns might have been mentioned on here already once or twice)
Inept, complacent, establishment campaigns, concerns over immigration and globalisation and populist, well targeted Leave and Trump campaigns making good use of social media all contributed to the Hillary and Remain defeat. Blaming Russian bots is just scraping the barrel
Yep, I agree.
But that does not make the Russians seeking to undermine votes in the UK and elsewhere acceptable or something to be laughed off.
The good news is that in Europe this seems to be understood. The bad news is that the US has now become so polarised that anything that helps "our side" is regarded as acceptable. That gives Putin a serious ability to shape things - see Trump and NATO, for example.
Their main purpose is to sow discord and undermine democracy. In that they have been very successful. Putin appears to be far more skilful and manipulative than Lenin, Stalin.
The Government is to cut the controversial six-week wait for Universal Credit payments in the comings days in a bid to see off a Conservative rebellion.
A Government source familiar with the plans told Sky News there would be "some movement [on the wait time] in the early part of next week" after intensive behind-the-scenes discussions with a group of up to two dozen rebel MPs.
The source said ministers were working on plans to cut the wait to five weeks or less in a significant concession to backbench MPs.
And Work and Pensions Secretary David Gauke is also said to be looking to do more on advance payments for claimants as the roll-out of Universal Credit is expanded from five to 50 job centres a month.
Would you have been this blasé about Russian meddling it Remain had won 52/48 and it later transpired Putin’s troll army had been backing Remain ?
a) Everybody meddled. The UK Govt. meddled. The EU meddled. Obama meddled. The Establishment meddled. Seems the only people who weren't meddling were those lazy Remainers, sat on their big fat complacent arses.
b) You think we didn't meddle in USSR politics? Paybacks a bitch, as Mr Putin might say.
c) You REALLY think Putin influenced the final result?
d) Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha.......
Confirms you’re a traitor to the UK.
When the trials come you will be exiled to Twatt or Middlesbrough.
Oh the irony.
Man who wants foreign powers to rule our country calls those who oppose it traitors.
A friend just came back from a financial services conference in La Paree yesterday. Super depressed about prospects for post-Brexit financial services on both sides.
Fear is that eg.out of the World Cup.
London will still be the main financial centre in Europe whatever happens and even today Davis has offered a special deal on migration for the City which you also managed to complain about yesterday
You understand nothing. Why you expose this simple fact so regularly is one of life's mysteries.
SNIP
As for me complaining place.
So what? nst the financial sector and to tax the rich more voted for Corbyn, that was not a prime motivator of the Leave vote which was restoring sovereignty and reducing low skilled immigration.
I said "dolts like you".
This is one of your classics: "most Leave voters voted for immigration controls on low skilled immigration and an end to free movement from Eastern Europe in particular and its replacement with a points system."
Such precision of understanding. Plus it's not even true on PB FFS, let alone the rest of the country, again as if the f&ck you would know.
TOPPING, we get it; you and people like you are used to getting your own way. On Brexit you haven't. As this is a new experience, it's not surprising you're struggling to accept it. With time, you will.
Endlessly calling other people stupid is not interesting, clever, or a good use of anyone's time.
I am not particularly used to getting my own way, thank you, though, for assuming I do. On Brexit indeed I didn't. And as I have said many times on here, I struggle to accept it only as I would struggle to accept a Labour Government if I woke up and it turned out the country had voted for one. When you say accept, there are several issues here.
First, I absolutely accept that it was voted for and is going to happen. But secondly, there is no reason on earth why that acceptance should turn into agreement.
As for the endlessly calling people stupid, I would refine that to endlessly calling one person stupid. But you are right, I might switch to ignore mode, although if everyone did that it wouldn't make for much chat on an internet chat board now would it?
The UK unemployment rate for July to September 2017 was 4.3% – the joint lowest rate since 1975 http://ow.ly/nnVM30gAAuw
A tribute to the magnificent stewardship of the economy by George Osborne and Phil Hammond. .
George and Phil are responsible you say ?
ONSVerified account @ONS 6m6 minutes ago More Replying to @ONS Jul-Sep 2017 was the sixth three-month period in a row where earnings including bonuses fell in real terms http://ow.ly/nnVM30gAAuw
That's because of Brexit/the fear of Brexit/The vote to Leave.
“I am working with children,” Wonder Woman (Gal Gadot) sighs in mock exasperation toward the end of Zack Snyder’s Justice League. She has a point. This is surely the most infantile of recent superhero yarns - a film that squanders the talents of an impressive ensemble cast and eschews any meaningful characterisation in favour of ever more overblown special effects.
Would you have been this blasé about Russian meddling it Remain had won 52/48 and it later transpired Putin’s troll army had been backing Remain ?
a) Everybody meddled. The UK Govt. meddled. The EU meddled. Obama meddled. The Establishment meddled. Seems the only people who weren't meddling were those lazy Remainers, sat on their big fat complacent arses.
b) You think we didn't meddle in USSR politics? Paybacks a bitch, as Mr Putin might say.
c) You REALLY think Putin influenced the final result?
d) Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha.......
Confirms you’re a traitor to the UK.
When the trials come you will be exiled to Twatt or Middlesbrough.
Oh the irony.
Man who wants foreign powers to rule our country calls those who oppose it traitors.
You should be fucking ashamed you Quisling.
No I don't.
Leavers are not only traitors and Putin's useful idiots, Leavers are the modern day Vichyists, but you're too thick to realise it.
The UK unemployment rate for July to September 2017 was 4.3% – the joint lowest rate since 1975 http://ow.ly/nnVM30gAAuw
A tribute to the magnificent stewardship of the economy by George Osborne and Phil Hammond. .
George and Phil are responsible you say ?
ONSVerified account @ONS 6m6 minutes ago More Replying to @ONS Jul-Sep 2017 was the sixth three-month period in a row where earnings including bonuses fell in real terms http://ow.ly/nnVM30gAAuw
That's because of Brexit/the fear of Brexit/The vote to Leave.
The UK unemployment rate for July to September 2017 was 4.3% – the joint lowest rate since 1975 http://ow.ly/nnVM30gAAuw
A tribute to the magnificent stewardship of the economy by George Osborne and Phil Hammond. .
George and Phil are responsible you say ?
ONSVerified account @ONS 6m6 minutes ago More Replying to @ONS Jul-Sep 2017 was the sixth three-month period in a row where earnings including bonuses fell in real terms http://ow.ly/nnVM30gAAuw
That's because of Brexit/the fear of Brexit/The vote to Leave.
No wonder the EU are saying no cherry picking..
No cherry picking without East European workers.
Cherry picking will increase once Turkey joins the EU of course.
"In 2014, world production of sweet cherries was 2.25 million tonnes, with Turkey producing 20% of this total. Other major producers of sweet cherries were the United States and Iran."
Philip SimVerified account @BBCPhilipSim 4m4 minutes ago More Supreme Court justices unanimously reject challenge to ScotGov's alcohol minimum pricing scheme - a "proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim"
Would you have been this blasé about Russian meddling it Remain had won 52/48 and it later transpired Putin’s troll army had been backing Remain ?
a) Everybody meddled. The UK Govt. meddled. The EU meddled. Obama meddled. The Establishment meddled. Seems the only people who weren't meddling were those lazy Remainers, sat on their big fat complacent arses.
b) You think we didn't meddle in USSR politics? Paybacks a bitch, as Mr Putin might say.
c) You REALLY think Putin influenced the final result?
d) Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha.......
Confirms you’re a traitor to the UK.
When the trials come you will be exiled to Twatt or Middlesbrough.
Oh the irony.
Man who wants foreign powers to rule our country calls those who oppose it traitors.
You should be fucking ashamed you Quisling.
No I don't.
Leavers are not only traitors and Putin's useful idiots, Leavers are the modern day Vichyists, but you're too thick to realise it.
When the trials come you will be exiled to Twatt or Middlesbrough.
Oh the irony.
Man who wants foreign powers to rule our country calls those who oppose it traitors.
You should be fucking ashamed you Quisling.
To avoid triggering other posters can everyone please refrain from saying "Middlesbrough"?
Nah, I'm looking forward to the day when we get to literally brand 'Traitors' on the forehead of Leavers and Middlesbrough becomes the town where we exile Leavers to.
We must be mad, literally mad, as a nation to be permitting the Russians to influence our elections and referendums.
Would you have been this blasé about Russian meddling it Remain had won 52/48 and it later transpired Putin’s troll army had been backing Remain ?
a) Everybody meddled. The UK Govt. meddled. The EU meddled. Obama meddled. The Establishment meddled. Seems the only people who weren't meddling were those lazy Remainers, sat on their big fat complacent arses.
b) You think we didn't meddle in USSR politics? Paybacks a bitch, as Mr Putin might say.
c) You REALLY think Putin influenced the final result?
d) Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha.......
Confirms you’re a traitor to the UK.
When the trials come you will be exiled to Twatt or Middlesbrough.
Oh the irony.
Man who wants foreign powers to rule our country calls those who oppose it traitors.
You should be fucking ashamed you Quisling.
No I don't.
Leavers are not only traitors and Putin's useful idiots, Leavers are the modern day Vichyists, but you're too thick to realise it.
I see the comparisons to the Anti-Corn Law League have subsided.....
Glad to realise that these constant Brexit debates are leading Remainers to understand a little bit more of our economic history. One day soon they might realise that history is not on their side.
The UK unemployment rate for July to September 2017 was 4.3% – the joint lowest rate since 1975 http://ow.ly/nnVM30gAAuw
Excellent news. I'm so happy we sent all those low-skilled Eastern European workers back home last year.
Remainers and facts avoiding each other again.
ONSVerified account @ONS 36s36 seconds ago More In Jul-Sep 2017, the number of non-UK nationals in work went up by 89k year-on-year http://ow.ly/nnVM30gAAuw
WHAT???????????
You mean that there are more non-UK nationals in work and STILL we have the lowest unemployment rate for 30 years?
Must be Russian-inspired fake news.
I find the stats surprising given seemingly valid accounts of EU nationals abandoning the UK because of Brexit. It is difficult to reconcile the two.
A friend just came back from a financial services conference in La Paree yesterday. Super depressed about prospects for post-Brexit financial services on both sides.
Feara whole.
As side now?
Still, on the bright side, Italy is out of the World Cup.
London will still be the main financial centre in Europe whatever happens and even today Davis has offered a special deal on migration for the City which you also managed to complain about yesterday
You understand nothing. Why you expose this simple fact so regularly is one of life's mysteries.
London is very likely to remain the main financial centre in Europe. That is not the point; the point is that it will be diminished and other locations will catch up, in this case the reference was to NY (that's New York if you weren't sure).
As for me complaining about the special deal Davis offered to the City, I didn't complain, you dolt. I simply pondered on the irony of people like you lauding the fact that the elite financial service workers are being given a special deal when it was supposedly to cock a snook at the elite and register a protest at having been left behind that dolts like you actually voted for Brexit in the first place.
So what? New York and London may change places back and forth but they are streets ahead of their rivals in North America and Europe and have more in common with each other than their European and US and Canadian rivals.
I of course voted Remain but most Leave voters voted for immigration controls on low skilled
High paid jobs that leave the UK, along with profitable businesses, mean less tax income and less economic activity. The more work that shifts to other places, the less money generated for the government.
I did not see a points-based immigration system specifically designed to exclude low-skilled Eastern Europeans from coming to the UK on my ballot. Maybe I got the wrong one.
Just as well Davis is giving the City a special deal on migration then.
It was of course Blair's failure to impose transition controls on free movement from the new accession countries in Eastern Europe in 2004 which was pivotal in getting Leave to 52%.
It is not in Davis's power to give the City any deal. Agree on Blair.
Would you have been this blasé about Russian meddling it Remain had won 52/48 and it later transpired Putin’s troll army had been backing Remain ?
a) Everybody meddled. The UK Govt. meddled. The EU meddled. Obama meddled. The Establishment meddled. Seems the only people who weren't meddling were those lazy Remainers, sat on their big fat complacent arses.
b) You think we didn't meddle in USSR politics? Paybacks a bitch, as Mr Putin might say.
c) You REALLY think Putin influenced the final result?
d) Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha.......
Confirms you’re a traitor to the UK.
When the trials come you will be exiled to Twatt or Middlesbrough.
Oh the irony.
Man who wants foreign powers to rule our country calls those who oppose it traitors.
You should be fucking ashamed you Quisling.
No I don't.
Leavers are not only traitors and Putin's useful idiots, Leavers are the modern day Vichyists, but you're too thick to realise it.
You're beyond parody today. Liquid breakfast?
Yet you do didn't get outraged by a Leaver calling me a Quisling.
A friend just came back from a financial services conference in La Paree yesterday. Super depressed about prospects for post-Brexit financial services on both sides.
Fear is that eg.out of the World Cup.
London will still be the main financial centre in Europe whatever happens and even today Davis has offered a special deal on migration for the City which you also managed to complain about yesterday
You understand nothing. Why you expose this simple fact so regularly is one of life's mysteries.
SNIP
As for me complaining place.
So what? nst the financial sector and to tax the rich more voted for Corbyn, that was not a prime motivator of the Leave vote which was restoring sovereignty and reducing low skilled immigration.
I said "dolts like you".
This is one of your classics: "most Leave voters voted for immigration controls on low skilled immigration and an end to free movement from Eastern Europe in particular and its replacement with a points system."
Such precision of understanding. Plus it's not even true on PB FFS, let alone the rest of the country, again as if the f&ck you would know.
TOPPING, we get it; you and people like you are used to getting your own way. On Brexit you haven't. As this is a new experience, it's not surprising you're struggling to accept it. With time, you will.
Endlessly calling other people stupid is not interesting, clever, or a good use of anyone's time.
I am not particularly used to getting my own way, thank you, though, for assuming I do. On Brexit indeed I didn't. And as I have said many times on here, I struggle to accept it only as I would struggle to accept a Labour Government if I woke up and it turned out the country had voted for one. When you say accept, there are several issues here.
First, I absolutely accept that it was voted for and is going to happen. But secondly, there is no reason on earth why that acceptance should turn into agreement.
As for the endlessly calling people stupid, I would refine that to endlessly calling one person stupid. But you are right, I might switch to ignore mode, although if everyone did that it wouldn't make for much chat on an internet chat board now would it?
All I'm saying is that your contributions on financial services are interesting enough without the personal attacks!
The UK unemployment rate for July to September 2017 was 4.3% – the joint lowest rate since 1975 http://ow.ly/nnVM30gAAuw
Excellent news. I'm so happy we sent all those low-skilled Eastern European workers back home last year.
Remainers and facts avoiding each other again.
ONSVerified account @ONS 36s36 seconds ago More In Jul-Sep 2017, the number of non-UK nationals in work went up by 89k year-on-year http://ow.ly/nnVM30gAAuw
WHAT???????????
You mean that there are more non-UK nationals in work and STILL we have the lowest unemployment rate for 30 years?
Must be Russian-inspired fake news.
I find the stats surprising given seemingly valid accounts of EU nationals abandoning the UK because of Brexit. It is difficult to reconcile the two.
Depends on the sector, I imagine. Googling "nursing shortage" gives some stats that show there are plenty of unfilled jobs there.
Fruit pickers prepared to run the gauntlet of frothing Brexiters in Lincolnshire? Not so sure how that would stack up.
A friend just came back from a financial services conference in La Paree yesterday. Super depressed about prospects for post-Brexit financial services on both sides.
Fear is that eg.out of the World Cup.
London will still be the main financial centre in Europe whatever happens and even today Davis has offered a special deal on migration for the City which you also managed to complain about yesterday
You understand nothing. Why you expose this simple fact so regularly is one of life's mysteries.
SNIP
As for me complaining place.
So what? nst the financial sector and to tax the rich more voted for Corbyn, that was not a prime motivator of the Leave vote which was restoring sovereignty and reducing low skilled immigration.
I said "dolts like you".
This is one of your classics: "most Leave voters voted for immigration controls on low skilled immigration and an end to free movement from Eastern Europe in particular and its replacement with a points system."
Such precision of understanding. Plus it's not even true on PB FFS, let alone the rest of the country, again as if the f&ck you would know.
TOPPING, we get it; you and people like you are used to getting your own way. On Brexit you haven't. As this is a new experience, it's not surprising you're struggling to accept it. With time, you will.
Endlessly calling other people stupid is not interesting, clever, or a good use of anyone's time.
I am not particularly used to getting my own way, thank you, though, for assuming I do. On Brexit indeed I didn't. And as I have said many times on here, I struggle to accept it only as I would struggle to accept a Labour Government if I woke up and it turned out the country had voted for one. When you say accept, there are several issues here.
First, I absolutely accept that it was voted for and is going to happen. But secondly, there is no reason on earth why that acceptance should turn into agreement.
As for the endlessly calling people stupid, I would refine that to endlessly calling one person stupid. But you are right, I might switch to ignore mode, although if everyone did that it wouldn't make for much chat on an internet chat board now would it?
All I'm saying is that your contributions on financial services are interesting enough without the personal attacks!
Philip SimVerified account @BBCPhilipSim 4m4 minutes ago More Supreme Court justices unanimously reject challenge to ScotGov's alcohol minimum pricing scheme - a "proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim"
I wonder what the ECJ will say. It will be amusing if it strikes the Supreme Court's decision down.
The UK unemployment rate for July to September 2017 was 4.3% – the joint lowest rate since 1975 http://ow.ly/nnVM30gAAuw
Excellent news. I'm so happy we sent all those low-skilled Eastern European workers back home last year.
Remainers and facts avoiding each other again.
ONSVerified account @ONS 36s36 seconds ago More In Jul-Sep 2017, the number of non-UK nationals in work went up by 89k year-on-year http://ow.ly/nnVM30gAAuw
WHAT???????????
You mean that there are more non-UK nationals in work and STILL we have the lowest unemployment rate for 30 years?
Must be Russian-inspired fake news.
I find the stats surprising given seemingly valid accounts of EU nationals abandoning the UK because of Brexit. It is difficult to reconcile the two.
Depends on the sector, I imagine. Googling "nursing shortage" gives some stats that show there are plenty of unfilled jobs there.
Fruit pickers prepared to run the gauntlet of frothing Brexiters in Lincolnshire? Not so sure how that would stack up.
The reason the fruit pickers are there is thatvthe locals are too lazy to get out of bed either to pick fruit or protest.
Would you have been this blasé about Russian meddling it Remain had won 52/48 and it later transpired Putin’s troll army had been backing Remain ?
a) Everybody meddled. The UK Govt. meddled. The EU meddled. Obama meddled. The Establishment meddled. Seems the only people who weren't meddling were those lazy Remainers, sat on their big fat complacent arses.
b) You think we didn't meddle in USSR politics? Paybacks a bitch, as Mr Putin might say.
c) You REALLY think Putin influenced the final result?
d) Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha.......
Confirms you’re a traitor to the UK.
When the trials come you will be exiled to Twatt or Middlesbrough.
Oh the irony.
Man who wants foreign powers to rule our country calls those who oppose it traitors.
You should be fucking ashamed you Quisling.
No I don't.
Leavers are not only traitors and Putin's useful idiots, Leavers are the modern day Vichyists, but you're too thick to realise it.
You're beyond parody today. Liquid breakfast?
Yet you do didn't get outraged by a Leaver calling me a Quisling.
That speaks volumes about you.
You are the one who started throwing the word traitor around. If you can't take the responses then fuck.off and sulk elsewhere.
This was all pretty obvious at the time (indeed, was the catalyst for "vapid bilge", one of the site's catchphrases).
Mind you, it is entertaining to see pb's useful idiots seamlessly move from their position then, which was that it wasn't happening, to their position now, which is that it didn't make any difference.
The UK unemployment rate for July to September 2017 was 4.3% – the joint lowest rate since 1975 http://ow.ly/nnVM30gAAuw
Excellent news. I'm so happy we sent all those low-skilled Eastern European workers back home last year.
Remainers and facts avoiding each other again.
ONSVerified account @ONS 36s36 seconds ago More In Jul-Sep 2017, the number of non-UK nationals in work went up by 89k year-on-year http://ow.ly/nnVM30gAAuw
WHAT???????????
You mean that there are more non-UK nationals in work and STILL we have the lowest unemployment rate for 30 years?
Must be Russian-inspired fake news.
I find the stats surprising given seemingly valid accounts of EU nationals abandoning the UK because of Brexit. It is difficult to reconcile the two.
Would you have been this blasé about Russian meddling it Remain had won 52/48 and it later transpired Putin’s troll army had been backing Remain ?
a) Everybody meddled. The UK Govt. meddled. The EU meddled. Obama meddled. The Establishment meddled. Seems the only people who weren't meddling were those lazy Remainers, sat on their big fat complacent arses.
b) You think we didn't meddle in USSR politics? Paybacks a bitch, as Mr Putin might say.
c) You REALLY think Putin influenced the final result?
d) Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha.......
Confirms you’re a traitor to the UK.
When the trials come you will be exiled to Twatt or Middlesbrough.
Oh the irony.
Man who wants foreign powers to rule our country calls those who oppose it traitors.
You should be fucking ashamed you Quisling.
No I don't.
Leavers are not only traitors and Putin's useful idiots, Leavers are the modern day Vichyists, but you're too thick to realise it.
You're beyond parody today. Liquid breakfast?
Yet you do didn't get outraged by a Leaver calling me a Quisling.
That speaks volumes about you.
You are the one who started throwing the word traitor around. If you can't take the responses then fuck.off and sulk elsewhere.
You never get this outraged when SeanT uses the word traitor at Remainers.
Would you have been this blasé about Russian meddling it Remain had won 52/48 and it later transpired Putin’s troll army had been backing Remain ?
a) Everybody meddled. The UK Govt. meddled. The EU meddled. Obama meddled. The Establishment meddled. Seems the only people who weren't meddling were those lazy Remainers, sat on their big fat complacent arses.
b) You think we didn't meddle in USSR politics? Paybacks a bitch, as Mr Putin might say.
c) You REALLY think Putin influenced the final result?
d) Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha.......
Confirms you’re a traitor to the UK.
When the trials come you will be exiled to Twatt or Middlesbrough.
Oh the irony.
Man who wants foreign powers to rule our country calls those who oppose it traitors.
You should be fucking ashamed you Quisling.
No I don't.
Leavers are not only traitors and Putin's useful idiots, Leavers are the modern day Vichyists, but you're too thick to realise it.
You're beyond parody today. Liquid breakfast?
Yet you do didn't get outraged by a Leaver calling me a Quisling.
That speaks volumes about you.
You are the one who started throwing the word traitor around. If you can't take the responses then fuck.off and sulk elsewhere.
Comments
The Leave victory was also the first time a majority of working class voters beat a majority of middle class voters since Wilson beat Heath in 1974. That is partly why the establishment are so annoyed as they are almost all middle class
I am getting tired of arguments to campaign quality though. Nobody would be using the "crap campaign" meme if Clinton or Remain had won. I remember most people saying Trump was running a "crap campaign" at the time when it seemed he was losing. It's just an argument that the losers lost, which doesn't do much for me in explaining why things happened.
A lot of this would be governed (in practice at least) by US law and they take the First Amendment very seriously.
Who do we know that supports Chelsea?
As ever, the only true guard is the common sense of the people. If they need guarding from their lack of it, then we cease to be a functioning democracy.
The Telegraph last night were outrageous and did not do leave any good.
Also TM has made a big error over the date and needs to reflect on how she resolves it.
TM is causing me concern, and this from a relative loyal conservative, and she needs to step up to the plate, increase the offer, and get on with it.
If and when we are ex EU and it does indeed prove a failure then there will be moves to seek a better deal with the EU or even re-join but I do not see how we get there wothout leaving
https://twitter.com/ylzanupf1/status/927467531266338816
What anyone can do about it I have no idea
London is very likely to remain the main financial centre in Europe. That is not the point; the point is that it will be diminished and other locations will catch up, in this case the reference was to NY (that's New York if you weren't sure).
As for me complaining about the special deal Davis offered to the City, I didn't complain, you dolt. I simply pondered on the irony of people like you lauding the fact that the elite financial service workers are being given a special deal when it was supposedly to cock a snook at the elite and register a protest at having been left behind that dolts like you actually voted for Brexit in the first place.
I loved it, I like my Marvel stuff and Tom Hiddleston too.
although of course that would lead directly to the Winchester effect.
The Remainer fear seems to be that Twitter users could be brainwashed by Russians or other foreigners. If we have another referendum, let's restrict it to over-25s.
Problem solved.
Of course, it is not up to Davis, is it?
IDS I'll give you.
I of course voted Remain but most Leave voters voted for immigration controls on low skilled immigration and an end to free movement from Eastern Europe in particular and its replacement with a points system. It was not bankers from France and Germany coming to London which led to the Leave vote but immigration from Eastern Europe to the North and Midlands after Blair failed to impose transition controls on free movement from the new accession countries in 2004.
People who wanted to vote against the financial sector and to tax the rich more voted for Corbyn, that was not a prime motivator of the Leave vote which was restoring sovereignty and reducing low skilled immigration.
This is one of your classics: "most Leave voters voted for immigration controls on low skilled immigration and an end to free movement from Eastern Europe in particular and its replacement with a points system."
Such precision of understanding. Plus it's not even true on PB FFS, let alone the rest of the country, again as if the f&ck you would know.
How Iceland became more puritanical towards young people over the last 20 years:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/stories-41973296/how-one-country-persuaded-teens-to-give-up-drink-and-drugs
When we could see the spivs who were behind the Leave campaign it's a mystery to me why no one bothered to join the dots.
ONSVerified account
@ONS
10m10 minutes ago
More
The UK unemployment rate for July to September 2017 was 4.3% – the joint lowest rate since 1975 http://ow.ly/nnVM30gAAuw
No wonder Comrade Brexiteers hate them.
However, some of the problem can be traced to bad UI design. For example, the way Facebook were presenting previews of news articles would conceal the source, so you could make a purely made-up news article look to most readers exactly like a genuine one. I think things will get a bit better as UI people learn to think adversarially, but the incentives for these sites to fix things are mixed to say the least, as conflict and indignation are great drivers of engagement.
We can also develop better social defences; One that springs to mind is relentlessly taking the piss out of gullible friends and relatives who spread bullshit. It's one thing this site is actually quite good at; With a few mysteriously obtuse exceptions, people who post here generally get better at posting stuff that's at least vaguely grounded in fact, because that's what the social dynamics encourage.
"and under 70s?"
Fair enough. I live in a 20,000 majority Labour seat (58% Leave vote), so it won't matter much anyway.
https://www.conservativehome.com/platform/2017/11/lord-ashcroft-what-american-voters-think-of-trump.html
Great word clouds.....
ONSVerified account
@ONS
36s36 seconds ago
More
In Jul-Sep 2017, the number of non-UK nationals in work went up by 89k year-on-year http://ow.ly/nnVM30gAAuw
http://www.zim.gov.zw/
This is what it looked like a few weeks ago:
https://web.archive.org/web/20170830092252/http://www.zim.gov.zw/
I do think you put too much faith in the EU which is riven with problems and is facing many threats from within which may yet see it self destruct.
If the EU or more specifically Junckers had had sense and given some ground to Cameron on immigration we would not be here.
Junckers legacy will be that he was in place when the UK exited and he will be severely tarnished
You mean that there are more non-UK nationals in work and STILL we have the lowest unemployment rate for 30 years?
Must be Russian-inspired fake news.
ONSVerified account
@ONS
6m6 minutes ago
More
Replying to @ONS
Jul-Sep 2017 was the sixth three-month period in a row where earnings including bonuses fell in real terms http://ow.ly/nnVM30gAAuw
I did not see a points-based immigration system specifically designed to exclude low-skilled Eastern Europeans from coming to the UK on my ballot. Maybe I got the wrong one.
https://twitter.com/ONS/status/930733365283774464
Again a completely factless response from you as usual littered with insults. All the polling shows it is low skilled not high skilled immigration voters wanted reduced.
A working class voter in the North and Midlands could vote Leave in June 2016 to reduce low skilled immigration which was undercutting their wages and putting pressure on local services, then vote for Corbyn in June 2017 to increase taxes on the rich and bash the financial sector and end austerity and many did precisely that.
In retrospect the May campaign ended up being almost as establishment as the Remain campaign, defending austerity as the latter defended the EU.
Mind you, it is entertaining to see pb's useful idiots seamlessly move from their position then, which was that it wasn't happening, to their position now, which is that it didn't make any difference.
Endlessly calling other people stupid is not interesting, clever, or a good use of anyone's time.
https://twitter.com/ChristopherJM/status/930726660760055809
It was of course Blair's failure to impose transition controls on free movement from the new accession countries in Eastern Europe in 2004 which was pivotal in getting Leave to 52%.
Deutschland UBER alles.
The Government is to cut the controversial six-week wait for Universal Credit payments in the comings days in a bid to see off a Conservative rebellion.
A Government source familiar with the plans told Sky News there would be "some movement [on the wait time] in the early part of next week" after intensive behind-the-scenes discussions with a group of up to two dozen rebel MPs.
The source said ministers were working on plans to cut the wait to five weeks or less in a significant concession to backbench MPs.
And Work and Pensions Secretary David Gauke is also said to be looking to do more on advance payments for claimants as the roll-out of Universal Credit is expanded from five to 50 job centres a month.
https://news.sky.com/story/government-backs-down-on-universal-credit-wait-11127313
Man who wants foreign powers to rule our country calls those who oppose it traitors.
You should be fucking ashamed you Quisling.
Interesting fact.
Bromwich Ham became Brumagem and then gentrified to Birmingham.
West Bromwich stayed West Bromwich. Up the Albion.
First, I absolutely accept that it was voted for and is going to happen. But secondly, there is no reason on earth why that acceptance should turn into agreement.
As for the endlessly calling people stupid, I would refine that to endlessly calling one person stupid. But you are right, I might switch to ignore mode, although if everyone did that it wouldn't make for much chat on an internet chat board now would it?
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/reviews/justice-league-review-dc-batman-release-date-buy-tickets-critics-rotten-tomatoes-a8055666.html
Leavers are not only traitors and Putin's useful idiots, Leavers are the modern day Vichyists, but you're too thick to realise it.
https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/journal-of-policy-history/article/nixon-loyalists-barry-goldwater-and-republican-support-for-president-nixon-during-watergate/0B38AE4B3E0DCAC4DFD17CA42EA3D3A0
"In 2014, world production of sweet cherries was 2.25 million tonnes, with Turkey producing 20% of this total. Other major producers of sweet cherries were the United States and Iran."
Philip SimVerified account
@BBCPhilipSim
4m4 minutes ago
More
Supreme Court justices unanimously reject challenge to ScotGov's alcohol minimum pricing scheme - a "proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim"
We must be mad, literally mad, as a nation to be permitting the Russians to influence our elections and referendums.
Glad to realise that these constant Brexit debates are leading Remainers to understand a little bit more of our economic history. One day soon they might realise that history is not on their side.
That speaks volumes about you.
Fruit pickers prepared to run the gauntlet of frothing Brexiters in Lincolnshire? Not so sure how that would stack up.
https://twitter.com/DMReporter/status/930428577081954304
Show me a man screaming 'traitor' and I'll show you a man in desperate need of an intelligent argument.
Why is that Comrade Tyndall?