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I do agree. We don't know the full background to this as of yet. And Gove was right to err on the side of caution. The reaction to his comments has been ridiculous. He was stating a basic truth - not calling for her head on a platter.FrancisUrquhart said:
Go do some reading about this ladies background. It isn't straight forward. The likes of the BBC or politicians aren't telling you the whole truth.steve_garner said:Michael Gove's ambiguous comments today regarding the lady in Iran are somewhat curious. They suggest that the government thinks her case is not straightforward.
Gove's comments of I don't know, but her husband does and that is what we have to go on seems 100% accurate.0 -
From her Wikipedia page - "Ratcliffe used to work for the BBC Media Action international charitable project, which is linked to a BBC training course offered to Iranian journalists, some of who were convicted for participating in the foreign training course in 2014."Ishmael_Z said:
And how often does any serving Foreign Secretary casually and publicly assert that the person being held in an overseas prison is guilty as charged, or rather more so? I can't think of a single case.oxfordsimon said:
And how often does any serving Foreign Secretary head off to personally secure the release of someone being held in an overseas prison? I can't think of a single case.Big_G_NorthWales said:
And put down by her husband tonight saying it serves no purpose for Boris to resign.oxfordsimon said:
Tulip Siddiq is loving being hyperbolic with all this. All about raising her own profile rather than doing any good to help with the case.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Boris = c*ntrottenborough said:
It looks like the lady has discovered breast lumps and is near a nervous breakdown. Everyone should have enormous sympathy but playing politics is not helping anyone, especially the family
Occasionally you get former politicians with a strong humanitarian record making such a trip. I don't see anyone rushing to do that. Why doesn't Emily Thornberry jet over and see what she can achieve?
We have to be realistic in what any UK politician can achieve when trying to influence the Iranian justice system. Just as any Iranian politician could ever hold to achieve if the situation were reversed.
Yes, there are humanitarian concerns but I can't see the Iranian regime being moved by those.
Indicating that she had some connection with the training of journalists does not seem utterly unreasonable. Should BJ had been more cautious - possibly. But we don't know the full details of her previous work and people are jumping on a bandwagon rather than asking enough real questions.0 -
JFC even if she was training journalists (the horror) Boris shouldn't be confirming that in public.0
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The people defending Boris are using the same logic as those who defend Roy Moore.Alistair said:JFC even if she was training journalists (the horror) Boris shouldn't be confirming that in public.
Embarrassing and sickening the lengths some go to defend their side.0 -
Not so. Johnson has said that said the government has "no doubt" she was on holiday "and that was the sole purpose of her visit". Collective responsibility permits - and requires - Gove to follow that line, rather than inject further doubt into the situation.oxfordsimon said:
I do agree. We don't know the full background to this as of yet. And Gove was right to err on the side of caution. The reaction to his comments has been ridiculous. He was stating a basic truth - not calling for her head on a platter.FrancisUrquhart said:
Go do some reading about this ladies background. It isn't straight forward. The likes of the BBC or politicians aren't telling you the whole truth.steve_garner said:Michael Gove's ambiguous comments today regarding the lady in Iran are somewhat curious. They suggest that the government thinks her case is not straightforward.
Gove's comments of I don't know, but her husband does and that is what we have to go on seems 100% accurate.0 -
Wiki entry is interesting and Boris misspoke. However the story on Gove today is just poor journalism. I heard Gove's interview with Marr and his comments were nowhere near that which are being reported.Alistair said:JFC even if she was training journalists (the horror) Boris shouldn't be confirming that in public.
Have we ever had such superficial crass media reporting than we are seeing now. I do wonder if the public have far more common sense than some in the media think otherwise TM and the conservatives would be 15-20% down in the polls.
We all deserve better more honest and balanced journalism0 -
There isn't any "possibly" about it. He has a duty of care to this woman, simply by virtue of him being FS and her being a UK citizen in trouble abroad, and irrespective of what she has done. That duty of care is not - to put it mildly - satisfied by thoughtlessly confirming the case for the prosecution, even if that case turns out to be 100% correct.oxfordsimon said:
From her Wikipedia page - "Ratcliffe used to work for the BBC Media Action international charitable project, which is linked to a BBC training course offered to Iranian journalists, some of who were convicted for participating in the foreign training course in 2014."Ishmael_Z said:
And how often does any serving Foreign Secretary casually and publicly assert that the person being held in an overseas prison is guilty as charged, or rather more so? I can't think of a single case.oxfordsimon said:
And how often does any serving Foreign Secretary head off to personally secure the release of someone being held in an overseas prison? I can't think of a single case.Big_G_NorthWales said:
And put down by her husband tonight saying it serves no purpose for Boris to resign.oxfordsimon said:
Tulip Siddiq is loving being hyperbolic with all this. All about raising her own profile rather than doing any good to help with the case.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Boris = c*ntrottenborough said:
It looks like the lady has discovered breast lumps and is near a nervous breakdown. Everyone should have enormous sympathy but playing politics is not helping anyone, especially the family
Occasionally you get former politicians with a strong humanitarian record making such a trip. I don't see anyone rushing to do that. Why doesn't Emily Thornberry jet over and see what she can achieve?
We have to be realistic in what any UK politician can achieve when trying to influence the Iranian justice system. Just as any Iranian politician could ever hold to achieve if the situation were reversed.
Yes, there are humanitarian concerns but I can't see the Iranian regime being moved by those.
Indicating that she had some connection with the training of journalists does not seem utterly unreasonable. Should BJ had been more cautious - possibly. But we don't know the full details of her previous work and people are jumping on a bandwagon rather than asking enough real questions.0 -
It turns out that fruit and veg don't pick themselves. Who knew?
https://twitter.com/ProfAFinlayson/status/9298019251675914260 -
"misspoke" is the most weaselly word in the English language, except that it isn't really in the English language.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Wiki entry is interesting and Boris misspoke. However the story on Gove today is just poor journalism. I heard Gove's interview with Marr and his comments were nowhere near that which are being reported.Alistair said:JFC even if she was training journalists (the horror) Boris shouldn't be confirming that in public.
Have we ever had such superficial crass media reporting than we are seeing now. I do wonder if the public have far more common sense than some in the media think otherwise TM and the conservatives would be 15-20% down in the polls.
We all deserve better more honest and balanced journalism0 -
Off topic, he clearly leans to the Left, but I've been enjoying the very tongue-in-cheek tweets of Poppy® Watch.0
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He is brilliant. And I don't agree about the left-leaning, I think he has the same genius as Matt for skewering people of all persuasions equally.Casino_Royale said:Off topic, he clearly leans to the Left, but I've been enjoying the very tongue-in-cheek tweets of Poppy® Watch.
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Did I spell it right ?Ishmael_Z said:
"misspoke" is the most weaselly word in the English language, except that it isn't really in the English language.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Wiki entry is interesting and Boris misspoke. However the story on Gove today is just poor journalism. I heard Gove's interview with Marr and his comments were nowhere near that which are being reported.Alistair said:JFC even if she was training journalists (the horror) Boris shouldn't be confirming that in public.
Have we ever had such superficial crass media reporting than we are seeing now. I do wonder if the public have far more common sense than some in the media think otherwise TM and the conservatives would be 15-20% down in the polls.
We all deserve better more honest and balanced journalism0 -
Big_G_NorthWales said:
Did I spell it right ?Ishmael_Z said:
"misspoke" is the most weaselly word in the English language, except that it isn't really in the English language.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Wiki entry is interesting and Boris misspoke. However the story on Gove today is just poor journalism. I heard Gove's interview with Marr and his comments were nowhere near that which are being reported.Alistair said:JFC even if she was training journalists (the horror) Boris shouldn't be confirming that in public.
Have we ever had such superficial crass media reporting than we are seeing now. I do wonder if the public have far more common sense than some in the media think otherwise TM and the conservatives would be 15-20% down in the polls.
We all deserve better more honest and balanced journalism
Embarrassing and sickening the lengths some go to criticise their side.TheScreamingEagles said:
The people defending Boris are using the same logic as those who defend Roy Moore.Alistair said:JFC even if she was training journalists (the horror) Boris shouldn't be confirming that in public.
Embarrassing and sickening the lengths some go to defend their side.0 -
Agreed. It's not as if any sensible person would expect Boris (of all people) to do anything positive in a case like this but surely it's not unreasonable to ask that he avoids making the situation any worse?Ishmael_Z said:
And how often does any serving Foreign Secretary casually and publicly assert that the person being held in an overseas prison is guilty as charged, or rather more so? I can't think of a single case.oxfordsimon said:
And how often does any serving Foreign Secretary head off to personally secure the release of someone being held in an overseas prison? I can't think of a single case.Big_G_NorthWales said:
And put down by her husband tonight saying it serves no purpose for Boris to resign.oxfordsimon said:
Tulip Siddiq is loving being hyperbolic with all this. All about raising her own profile rather than doing any good to help with the case.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Boris = c*ntrottenborough said:
It looks like the lady has discovered breast lumps and is near a nervous breakdown. Everyone should have enormous sympathy but playing politics is not helping anyone, especially the family
Occasionally you get former politicians with a strong humanitarian record making such a trip. I don't see anyone rushing to do that. Why doesn't Emily Thornberry jet over and see what she can achieve?
We have to be realistic in what any UK politician can achieve when trying to influence the Iranian justice system. Just as any Iranian politician could ever hold to achieve if the situation were reversed.
Yes, there are humanitarian concerns but I can't see the Iranian regime being moved by those.0 -
Is weaselly (if that is how you spell it) in the English language?Ishmael_Z said:
"misspoke" is the most weaselly word in the English language, except that it isn't really in the English language.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Wiki entry is interesting and Boris misspoke. However the story on Gove today is just poor journalism. I heard Gove's interview with Marr and his comments were nowhere near that which are being reported.Alistair said:JFC even if she was training journalists (the horror) Boris shouldn't be confirming that in public.
Have we ever had such superficial crass media reporting than we are seeing now. I do wonder if the public have far more common sense than some in the media think otherwise TM and the conservatives would be 15-20% down in the polls.
We all deserve better more honest and balanced journalism0 -
I think it's obvious from how he phrases his tweets and what he chooses to tweet - he doesn't send up white poppies at all, for example - but, he does skewer the absurdity of some of its over-commercialisation, and its use by some as a proxy in the culture wars.Ishmael_Z said:
He is brilliant. And I don't agree about the left-leaning, I think he has the same genius as Matt for skewering people of all persuasions equally.Casino_Royale said:Off topic, he clearly leans to the Left, but I've been enjoying the very tongue-in-cheek tweets of Poppy® Watch.
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Yeah it isn't the spelling, it's just that it's usually an American euphemism for "lied".Big_G_NorthWales said:
Did I spell it right ?Ishmael_Z said:
"misspoke" is the most weaselly word in the English language, except that it isn't really in the English language.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Wiki entry is interesting and Boris misspoke. However the story on Gove today is just poor journalism. I heard Gove's interview with Marr and his comments were nowhere near that which are being reported.Alistair said:JFC even if she was training journalists (the horror) Boris shouldn't be confirming that in public.
Have we ever had such superficial crass media reporting than we are seeing now. I do wonder if the public have far more common sense than some in the media think otherwise TM and the conservatives would be 15-20% down in the polls.
We all deserve better more honest and balanced journalism0 -
It is now.steve_garner said:
Is weaselly (if that is how you spell it) in the English language?Ishmael_Z said:
"misspoke" is the most weaselly word in the English language, except that it isn't really in the English language.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Wiki entry is interesting and Boris misspoke. However the story on Gove today is just poor journalism. I heard Gove's interview with Marr and his comments were nowhere near that which are being reported.Alistair said:JFC even if she was training journalists (the horror) Boris shouldn't be confirming that in public.
Have we ever had such superficial crass media reporting than we are seeing now. I do wonder if the public have far more common sense than some in the media think otherwise TM and the conservatives would be 15-20% down in the polls.
We all deserve better more honest and balanced journalism0 -
Someone didn't read the story...AlastairMeeks said:It turns out that fruit and veg don't pick themselves. Who knew?
https://twitter.com/ProfAFinlayson/status/929801925167591426
Recent research commissioned by Cornwall Council and the Local Enterprise Partnership found changes to migration laws after Brexit could lead to multi-million pound losses to the Cornish economy if the horticultural industry cannot access the skills and workforce it needs. The research found that following the Brexit vote, recruitment immediately became more difficult for horticultural farms, harvests could not be lifted in full and staffing requirements were already dwindling to 65% of need.0 -
Interesting to note Boris has actually retreated today over Brexit. The fauxtrage over this leaked letter over shadows it's comments. He's now pushing 30/6/21 as the last day of transition. As opposed to dying in a ditch over " not a day more " than two years when he was trying to sabotage May's Florence speech. While of course it's bonkers to make 3 months into a theological dispute it was Boris' choice to do so and he's now backed down. And backed down in a letter clearly designed to appear as if he is on the offensive. So quietly the Status Quo transition goes up from 24 to 27 months.0
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I have little time for Boris and have no intention of voting for him as PM but in the end all the politics is counter productive and no doubt this is recognised by her husband who does not want his resignationIshmael_Z said:
Yeah it isn't the spelling, it's just that it's usually an American euphemism for "lied".Big_G_NorthWales said:
Did I spell it right ?Ishmael_Z said:
"misspoke" is the most weaselly word in the English language, except that it isn't really in the English language.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Wiki entry is interesting and Boris misspoke. However the story on Gove today is just poor journalism. I heard Gove's interview with Marr and his comments were nowhere near that which are being reported.Alistair said:JFC even if she was training journalists (the horror) Boris shouldn't be confirming that in public.
Have we ever had such superficial crass media reporting than we are seeing now. I do wonder if the public have far more common sense than some in the media think otherwise TM and the conservatives would be 15-20% down in the polls.
We all deserve better more honest and balanced journalism0 -
Not so much that he misspoke, it was a jawbone malfunction.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Did I spell it right ?Ishmael_Z said:
"misspoke" is the most weaselly word in the English language, except that it isn't really in the English language.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Wiki entry is interesting and Boris misspoke. However the story on Gove today is just poor journalism. I heard Gove's interview with Marr and his comments were nowhere near that which are being reported.Alistair said:JFC even if she was training journalists (the horror) Boris shouldn't be confirming that in public.
Have we ever had such superficial crass media reporting than we are seeing now. I do wonder if the public have far more common sense than some in the media think otherwise TM and the conservatives would be 15-20% down in the polls.
We all deserve better more honest and balanced journalism
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Surely, the market will correct this automatically?AlastairMeeks said:It turns out that fruit and veg don't pick themselves. Who knew?
https://twitter.com/ProfAFinlayson/status/929801925167591426
If the farmers can't get them picked on current wages, they will lose all their money, and make nothing.
They will either invest in machinery to automate picking, or pay higher wages to attract labour, and get them sold at either lower margins, or slightly higher prices, or, will decide to plant a more profitable crop next year, or decide there's a more profitable use for the land than mass horticulture.
When the economic climate changes, business changes.0 -
No it was Boris dare I say being Boris and that is why he will not lead the partyAlastairMeeks said:
Not so much that he misspoke, it was a jawbone malfunction.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Did I spell it right ?Ishmael_Z said:
"misspoke" is the most weaselly word in the English language, except that it isn't really in the English language.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Wiki entry is interesting and Boris misspoke. However the story on Gove today is just poor journalism. I heard Gove's interview with Marr and his comments were nowhere near that which are being reported.Alistair said:JFC even if she was training journalists (the horror) Boris shouldn't be confirming that in public.
Have we ever had such superficial crass media reporting than we are seeing now. I do wonder if the public have far more common sense than some in the media think otherwise TM and the conservatives would be 15-20% down in the polls.
We all deserve better more honest and balanced journalism0 -
This one broke me.Casino_Royale said:Off topic, he clearly leans to the Left, but I've been enjoying the very tongue-in-cheek tweets of Poppy® Watch.
https://twitter.com/giantpoppywatch/status/9296750368516546610 -
Last night in Barcelona
https://twitter.com/jmcruset/status/9294784830462156910 -
Since when were carrots horticulture? Who knew? As Alastair Meeks might say.Casino_Royale said:
Surely, the market will correct this automatically?AlastairMeeks said:It turns out that fruit and veg don't pick themselves. Who knew?
https://twitter.com/ProfAFinlayson/status/929801925167591426
If the farmers can't get them picked on current wages, they will lose all their money, and make nothing.
They will either invest in machinery to automate picking, or pay higher wages to attract labour, and get them sold at either lower margins, or slightly higher prices, or, will decide to plant a more profitable crop next year, or decide there's a more profitable use for the land than mass horticulture.
When the economic climate changes, business changes.0 -
That was pretty special. I also enjoyed this one:TheScreamingEagles said:
This one broke me.Casino_Royale said:Off topic, he clearly leans to the Left, but I've been enjoying the very tongue-in-cheek tweets of Poppy® Watch.
https://twitter.com/giantpoppywatch/status/795710802280017920?lang=en0 -
Higher food prices and worse choice: all part of the Brexit dividend.Casino_Royale said:
Surely, the market will correct this automatically?AlastairMeeks said:It turns out that fruit and veg don't pick themselves. Who knew?
https://twitter.com/ProfAFinlayson/status/929801925167591426
If the farmers can't get them picked on current wages, they will lose all their money, and make nothing.
They will either invest in machinery to automate picking, or pay higher wages to attract labour, and get them sold at either lower margins, or slightly higher prices, or, will decide to plant a more profitable crop next year, or decide there's a more profitable use for the land than mass horticulture.
When the economic climate changes, business changes.0 -
What is unforgivable is that having made an error Boris has spent almost two weeks trying to blag his way out of it using half truths and blaming civil servants for HIS gaffe.Alistair said:JFC even if she was training journalists (the horror) Boris shouldn't be confirming that in public.
His surrogates like Gove and Banks are even more disingenuous.0 -
Or Gove is as big an ass as BoZo, which has some precedent...asjohnstone said:Boris saying she was training journos can be written off as a mistake, but now Gove refuses to correct him suggests Boris may well have been correct.
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Oh, oh, oh, I know this one.AlastairMeeks said:It turns out that fruit and veg don't pick themselves. Who knew?
Is the right answer, "Everyone!" ?
What do I win?0 -
Take up the photo choice with the Falmouth Packet. Presumably they had reason to think it relevant. Their opening paragraph seems to have been overlooked by the diehard Leavers too.steve_garner said:
Since when were carrots horticulture? Who knew? As Alastair Meeks might say.Casino_Royale said:
Surely, the market will correct this automatically?AlastairMeeks said:It turns out that fruit and veg don't pick themselves. Who knew?
https://twitter.com/ProfAFinlayson/status/929801925167591426
If the farmers can't get them picked on current wages, they will lose all their money, and make nothing.
They will either invest in machinery to automate picking, or pay higher wages to attract labour, and get them sold at either lower margins, or slightly higher prices, or, will decide to plant a more profitable crop next year, or decide there's a more profitable use for the land than mass horticulture.
When the economic climate changes, business changes.0 -
Why should food prices be higher, or choice worse? The end of EU agricultural tariffs with non-EU countries, for example, and subsidising outmoded production methods with CAP, should lead to lower prices in the UK.AlastairMeeks said:
Higher food prices and worse choice: all part of the Brexit dividend.Casino_Royale said:
Surely, the market will correct this automatically?AlastairMeeks said:It turns out that fruit and veg don't pick themselves. Who knew?
https://twitter.com/ProfAFinlayson/status/929801925167591426
If the farmers can't get them picked on current wages, they will lose all their money, and make nothing.
They will either invest in machinery to automate picking, or pay higher wages to attract labour, and get them sold at either lower margins, or slightly higher prices, or, will decide to plant a more profitable crop next year, or decide there's a more profitable use for the land than mass horticulture.
When the economic climate changes, business changes.
I've said (since before the vote) that Brexit, would be likely to lead to British farming moving into more high-end, less labour intensive, food production.0 -
Boris 4 president.
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I admire how her husband is dealing with the situation. His statements are very measured. He made pretty clear that he doesn't want Boris to go. It was Boris's error not to correct/clarify his statements and be seen to dither, but this just proves yet again that he is not up to the job.oxfordsimon said:
I do agree. We don't know the full background to this as of yet. And Gove was right to err on the side of caution. The reaction to his comments has been ridiculous. He was stating a basic truth - not calling for her head on a platter.FrancisUrquhart said:
Go do some reading about this ladies background. It isn't straight forward. The likes of the BBC or politicians aren't telling you the whole truth.steve_garner said:Michael Gove's ambiguous comments today regarding the lady in Iran are somewhat curious. They suggest that the government thinks her case is not straightforward.
Gove's comments of I don't know, but her husband does and that is what we have to go on seems 100% accurate.
Similarly, I don't think there was much wrong with Gove's comments today. He is trying to distance the government from the case. If the Iranians have it in their head that she is an agent of the British Government then the government pleading her case isn't going to help.
It seems to me that this is massively opportunistic on the part of the labour party.
The truth is that there are many people in similar situations that simply don't have the profile.
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The Boris/Z-R issue is nothing to do with the facts and everything to do with narrative and dynamics. #1 Boris' gaffe was minor but #2 He wouldn't apologise and didn't clean the gaffe up for a week. #2 He has form on being sloppy so this is a character issue. #3 The unspoken rhetorical question in all this is why is boris still in office when Patel/Fallon had to go ? #4 It's a proxy battle in the Tory leadership election which has now started. #5 Boris' sloppiness over Z-R is a proxy for the side of the Bus.
The Z-R issue is merely a lightening rod for all sorts of preexisting static. If it wasn't this it was something else. Though there is arguably an even deeper layer. Funny name, duel citizen, inner London family. I think the media are daring folk to say she's not really British. It's a very Remain vs Leave row.0 -
You mean this paragraph?AlastairMeeks said:
Take up the photo choice with the Falmouth Packet. Presumably they had reason to think it relevant. Their opening paragraph seems to have been overlooked by the diehard Leavers too.steve_garner said:
Since when were carrots horticulture? Who knew? As Alastair Meeks might say.Casino_Royale said:
Surely, the market will correct this automatically?AlastairMeeks said:It turns out that fruit and veg don't pick themselves. Who knew?
https://twitter.com/ProfAFinlayson/status/929801925167591426
If the farmers can't get them picked on current wages, they will lose all their money, and make nothing.
They will either invest in machinery to automate picking, or pay higher wages to attract labour, and get them sold at either lower margins, or slightly higher prices, or, will decide to plant a more profitable crop next year, or decide there's a more profitable use for the land than mass horticulture.
When the economic climate changes, business changes.
Crops are rotting in the fields as Cornish farms have been unable to fully harvest crops this year due to a sharp fall in migrant labour.
You do know the word crop is referring to horticultural produce?0 -
This is another favourite of mine.Casino_Royale said:Why should food prices be higher, or choice worse? The end of EU agricultural tariffs with non-EU countries, for example, and subsidising outmoded production methods with CAP, should lead to lower prices in the UK.
See if you can work out why importing food from Peru might just be slightly more expensive than importing it from France.
Show your working...0 -
Look up the meaning of the word horticultural.tlg86 said:
You mean this paragraph?AlastairMeeks said:
Take up the photo choice with the Falmouth Packet. Presumably they had reason to think it relevant. Their opening paragraph seems to have been overlooked by the diehard Leavers too.steve_garner said:
Since when were carrots horticulture? Who knew? As Alastair Meeks might say.Casino_Royale said:
Surely, the market will correct this automatically?AlastairMeeks said:It turns out that fruit and veg don't pick themselves. Who knew?
https://twitter.com/ProfAFinlayson/status/929801925167591426
If the farmers can't get them picked on current wages, they will lose all their money, and make nothing.
They will either invest in machinery to automate picking, or pay higher wages to attract labour, and get them sold at either lower margins, or slightly higher prices, or, will decide to plant a more profitable crop next year, or decide there's a more profitable use for the land than mass horticulture.
When the economic climate changes, business changes.
Crops are rotting in the fields as Cornish farms have been unable to fully harvest crops this year due to a sharp fall in migrant labour.
You do know the word crop is referring to horticultural produce?0 -
Evening all
On matters Poppy, we seem to have had Remembrance Weekend. I was at a Council office on Friday and we all stopped at 11am for a two minute silence. Yesterday Mrs Stodge and I were in the towels at John Lewis at Lakeside (simmer down, TSE) when everything stopped again and today we are out in East Ham High Street and once again everything stopped at 11 as the civic dignitaries led by the Deputy Mayor (Sir Robin goes to Stratford) did their bit,
In my youth I was well aware of Remembrance Sunday but since when did we have a two-minute silence on the 11th and since when did we have one on the 10th as well ?
Now, there will be those who say with considerable justification that six minutes of silence is paltry recognition not only for those who have fallen but for those they have left behind and of course that's valid and accurate but I just think a single national act of remembrance is what this should be about not lots of little acts.
There just seems a desperate desire to "do the right thing" or be seen to be doing the right thing. I don't know - just an observation. If we wanted to do the right thing by the widows, widowers and dependents of those lost fighting for our life and values, we'd do a lot more than buy poppies once a year.0 -
The mere fact that Arron Banks has said his tuppence-worth confirms your last statement!YellowSubmarine said:The Boris/Z-R issue is nothing to do with the facts and everything to do with narrative and dynamics. #1 Boris' gaffe was minor but #2 He wouldn't apologise and didn't clean the gaffe up for a week. #2 He has form on being sloppy so this is a character issue. #3 The unspoken rhetorical question in all this is why is boris still in office when Patel/Fallon had to go ? #4 It's a proxy battle in the Tory leadership election which has now started. #5 Boris' sloppiness over Z-R is a proxy for the side of the Bus.
The Z-R issue is merely a lightening rod for all sorts of preexisting static. If it wasn't this it was something else. Though there is arguably an even deeper layer. Funny name, duel citizen, inner London family. I think the media are daring folk to say she's not really British. It's a very Remain vs Leave row.0 -
Getting serious now
https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/9298110404134830080 -
You can lead a horticulture but you can't make her think.AlastairMeeks said:
Look up the meaning of the word horticultural.tlg86 said:
You mean this paragraph?AlastairMeeks said:
Take up the photo choice with the Falmouth Packet. Presumably they had reason to think it relevant. Their opening paragraph seems to have been overlooked by the diehard Leavers too.steve_garner said:
Since when were carrots horticulture? Who knew? As Alastair Meeks might say.Casino_Royale said:
Surely, the market will correct this automatically?AlastairMeeks said:It turns out that fruit and veg don't pick themselves. Who knew?
https://twitter.com/ProfAFinlayson/status/929801925167591426
If the farmers can't get them picked on current wages, they will lose all their money, and make nothing.
They will either invest in machinery to automate picking, or pay higher wages to attract labour, and get them sold at either lower margins, or slightly higher prices, or, will decide to plant a more profitable crop next year, or decide there's a more profitable use for the land than mass horticulture.
When the economic climate changes, business changes.
Crops are rotting in the fields as Cornish farms have been unable to fully harvest crops this year due to a sharp fall in migrant labour.
You do know the word crop is referring to horticultural produce?0 -
Local manufacturing gets a step closer.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/11/10/metal_3d_printing_at_desktop_metal/
0 -
Just to help me on this Casino, what do you meant by "more high-end, less labour intensive, food production"?Casino_Royale said:
Why should food prices be higher, or choice worse? The end of EU agricultural tariffs with non-EU countries, for example, and subsidising outmoded production methods with CAP, should lead to lower prices in the UK.AlastairMeeks said:
Higher food prices and worse choice: all part of the Brexit dividend.Casino_Royale said:
Surely, the market will correct this automatically?AlastairMeeks said:It turns out that fruit and veg don't pick themselves. Who knew?
https://twitter.com/ProfAFinlayson/status/929801925167591426
If the farmers can't get them picked on current wages, they will lose all their money, and make nothing.
They will either invest in machinery to automate picking, or pay higher wages to attract labour, and get them sold at either lower margins, or slightly higher prices, or, will decide to plant a more profitable crop next year, or decide there's a more profitable use for the land than mass horticulture.
When the economic climate changes, business changes.
I've said (since before the vote) that Brexit, would be likely to lead to British farming moving into more high-end, less labour intensive, food production.0 -
I know what it means. It's what they do at Wisley rather than Lincolnshire.AlastairMeeks said:
Look up the meaning of the word horticultural.tlg86 said:
You mean this paragraph?AlastairMeeks said:
Take up the photo choice with the Falmouth Packet. Presumably they had reason to think it relevant. Their opening paragraph seems to have been overlooked by the diehard Leavers too.steve_garner said:
Since when were carrots horticulture? Who knew? As Alastair Meeks might say.Casino_Royale said:
Surely, the market will correct this automatically?AlastairMeeks said:It turns out that fruit and veg don't pick themselves. Who knew?
https://twitter.com/ProfAFinlayson/status/929801925167591426
If the farmers can't get them picked on current wages, they will lose all their money, and make nothing.
They will either invest in machinery to automate picking, or pay higher wages to attract labour, and get them sold at either lower margins, or slightly higher prices, or, will decide to plant a more profitable crop next year, or decide there's a more profitable use for the land than mass horticulture.
When the economic climate changes, business changes.
Crops are rotting in the fields as Cornish farms have been unable to fully harvest crops this year due to a sharp fall in migrant labour.
You do know the word crop is referring to horticultural produce?0 -
calum said:
Getting serious now
twitter.com/Telegraph/status/929811040413483008
British families will be barred from taking pets to the continent in event of no deal, Michel Barnier warns
Boy they're getting desperate.
0 -
No idea why were there was a 2 minute silence on Friday but there's always one on the 11th and then again on Remembrance Sunday. This year that's yesterday and today.stodge said:Evening all
On matters Poppy, we seem to have had Remembrance Weekend. I was at a Council office on Friday and we all stopped at 11am for a two minute silence. Yesterday Mrs Stodge and I were in the towels at John Lewis at Lakeside (simmer down, TSE) when everything stopped again and today we are out in East Ham High Street and once again everything stopped at 11 as the civic dignitaries led by the Deputy Mayor (Sir Robin goes to Stratford) did their bit,
In my youth I was well aware of Remembrance Sunday but since when did we have a two-minute silence on the 11th and since when did we have one on the 10th as well ?
Now, there will be those who say with considerable justification that six minutes of silence is paltry recognition not only for those who have fallen but for those they have left behind and of course that's valid and accurate but I just think a single national act of remembrance is what this should be about not lots of little acts.
There just seems a desperate desire to "do the right thing" or be seen to be doing the right thing. I don't know - just an observation. If we wanted to do the right thing by the widows, widowers and dependents of those lost fighting for our life and values, we'd do a lot more than buy poppies once a year.0 -
I am sure this will come for some metal uses but given how many different alloys and treatments are used on metal manufactures, I remain a bit sceptical* about its widespread adoption. (A bit scary that the side bar shows a gun being manufactured!)MarkHopkins said:
Local manufacturing gets a step closer.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/11/10/metal_3d_printing_at_desktop_metal/
(*Then again, I couldn't see digital photography taking off, so what do I know!)0 -
Yet more complete bollocks given how many Leave supporters are attacking Boris.YellowSubmarine said:The Boris/Z-R issue is nothing to do with the facts and everything to do with narrative and dynamics. #1 Boris' gaffe was minor but #2 He wouldn't apologise and didn't clean the gaffe up for a week. #2 He has form on being sloppy so this is a character issue. #3 The unspoken rhetorical question in all this is why is boris still in office when Patel/Fallon had to go ? #4 It's a proxy battle in the Tory leadership election which has now started. #5 Boris' sloppiness over Z-R is a proxy for the side of the Bus.
The Z-R issue is merely a lightening rod for all sorts of preexisting static. If it wasn't this it was something else. Though there is arguably an even deeper layer. Funny name, duel citizen, inner London family. I think the media are daring folk to say she's not really British. It's a very Remain vs Leave row.
I think it is very sad that some tossers are trying to turn this into a Brexit issue.0 -
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horticulturetlg86 said:
I know what it means. It's what they do at Wisley rather than Lincolnshire.AlastairMeeks said:
Look up the meaning of the word horticultural.tlg86 said:
You mean this paragraph?AlastairMeeks said:
Take up the photo choice with the Falmouth Packet. Presumably they had reason to think it relevant. Their opening paragraph seems to have been overlooked by the diehard Leavers too.steve_garner said:
Since when were carrots horticulture? Who knew? As Alastair Meeks might say.Casino_Royale said:
Surely, the market will correct this automatically?AlastairMeeks said:It turns out that fruit and veg don't pick themselves. Who knew?
https://twitter.com/ProfAFinlayson/status/929801925167591426
If the farmers can't get them picked on current wages, they will lose all their money, and make nothing.
They will either invest in machinery to automate picking, or pay higher wages to attract labour, and get them sold at either lower margins, or slightly higher prices, or, will decide to plant a more profitable crop next year, or decide there's a more profitable use for the land than mass horticulture.
When the economic climate changes, business changes.
Crops are rotting in the fields as Cornish farms have been unable to fully harvest crops this year due to a sharp fall in migrant labour.
You do know the word crop is referring to horticultural produce?0 -
In contrast to agriculture, horticulture does not include large-scale crop production or animal husbandry.AlastairMeeks said:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horticulturetlg86 said:
I know what it means. It's what they do at Wisley rather than Lincolnshire.AlastairMeeks said:
Look up the meaning of the word horticultural.tlg86 said:
You mean this paragraph?AlastairMeeks said:
Take up the photo choice with the Falmouth Packet. Presumably they had reason to think it relevant. Their opening paragraph seems to have been overlooked by the diehard Leavers too.steve_garner said:
Since when were carrots horticulture? Who knew? As Alastair Meeks might say.Casino_Royale said:
Surely, the market will correct this automatically?AlastairMeeks said:It turns out that fruit and veg don't pick themselves. Who knew?
https://twitter.com/ProfAFinlayson/status/929801925167591426
If the farmers can't get them picked on current wages, they will lose all their money, and make nothing.
They will either invest in machinery to automate picking, or pay higher wages to attract labour, and get them sold at either lower margins, or slightly higher prices, or, will decide to plant a more profitable crop next year, or decide there's a more profitable use for the land than mass horticulture.
When the economic climate changes, business changes.
Crops are rotting in the fields as Cornish farms have been unable to fully harvest crops this year due to a sharp fall in migrant labour.
You do know the word crop is referring to horticultural produce?0 -
Boris Johnson is Theresa May's human shield against a hard Brexit coup. That's why he is able to get away with a gaffe like this.Richard_Tyndall said:
Yet more complete bollocks given how many Leave supporters are attacking Boris.YellowSubmarine said:The Boris/Z-R issue is nothing to do with the facts and everything to do with narrative and dynamics. #1 Boris' gaffe was minor but #2 He wouldn't apologise and didn't clean the gaffe up for a week. #2 He has form on being sloppy so this is a character issue. #3 The unspoken rhetorical question in all this is why is boris still in office when Patel/Fallon had to go ? #4 It's a proxy battle in the Tory leadership election which has now started. #5 Boris' sloppiness over Z-R is a proxy for the side of the Bus.
The Z-R issue is merely a lightening rod for all sorts of preexisting static. If it wasn't this it was something else. Though there is arguably an even deeper layer. Funny name, duel citizen, inner London family. I think the media are daring folk to say she's not really British. It's a very Remain vs Leave row.
I think it is very sad that some tossers are trying to turn this into a Brexit issue.0 -
Hey Nazanin, stop yer snivelling, it's just Boris being Boris.Big_G_NorthWales said:
No it was Boris dare I say being Boris and that is why he will not lead the partyAlastairMeeks said:
Not so much that he misspoke, it was a jawbone malfunction.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Did I spell it right ?Ishmael_Z said:
"misspoke" is the most weaselly word in the English language, except that it isn't really in the English language.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Wiki entry is interesting and Boris misspoke. However the story on Gove today is just poor journalism. I heard Gove's interview with Marr and his comments were nowhere near that which are being reported.Alistair said:JFC even if she was training journalists (the horror) Boris shouldn't be confirming that in public.
Have we ever had such superficial crass media reporting than we are seeing now. I do wonder if the public have far more common sense than some in the media think otherwise TM and the conservatives would be 15-20% down in the polls.
We all deserve better more honest and balanced journalism0 -
Suspect we'll all become Status Quo fans by 2021YellowSubmarine said:Interesting to note Boris has actually retreated today over Brexit. The fauxtrage over this leaked letter over shadows it's comments. He's now pushing 30/6/21 as the last day of transition. As opposed to dying in a ditch over " not a day more " than two years when he was trying to sabotage May's Florence speech. While of course it's bonkers to make 3 months into a theological dispute it was Boris' choice to do so and he's now backed down. And backed down in a letter clearly designed to appear as if he is on the offensive. So quietly the Status Quo transition goes up from 24 to 27 months.
0 -
+1Theuniondivvie said:
Hey Nazanin, stop yer snivelling, it's just Boris being Boris.Big_G_NorthWales said:
No it was Boris dare I say being Boris and that is why he will not lead the partyAlastairMeeks said:
Not so much that he misspoke, it was a jawbone malfunction.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Did I spell it right ?Ishmael_Z said:
"misspoke" is the most weaselly word in the English language, except that it isn't really in the English language.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Wiki entry is interesting and Boris misspoke. However the story on Gove today is just poor journalism. I heard Gove's interview with Marr and his comments were nowhere near that which are being reported.Alistair said:JFC even if she was training journalists (the horror) Boris shouldn't be confirming that in public.
Have we ever had such superficial crass media reporting than we are seeing now. I do wonder if the public have far more common sense than some in the media think otherwise TM and the conservatives would be 15-20% down in the polls.
We all deserve better more honest and balanced journalism0 -
"Crops are rotting in the fields..."tlg86 said:
In contrast to agriculture, horticulture does not include large-scale crop production or animal husbandry.AlastairMeeks said:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horticulturetlg86 said:
I know what it means. It's what they do at Wisley rather than Lincolnshire.AlastairMeeks said:
Look up the meaning of the word horticultural.tlg86 said:
You mean this paragraph?AlastairMeeks said:
Take up the photo choice with the Falmouth Packet. Presumably they had reason to think it relevant. Their opening paragraph seems to have been overlooked by the diehard Leavers too.steve_garner said:
Since when were carrots horticulture? Who knew? As Alastair Meeks might say.Casino_Royale said:
Surely, the market will correct this automatically?AlastairMeeks said:It turns out that fruit and veg don't pick themselves. Who knew?
https://twitter.com/ProfAFinlayson/status/929801925167591426
If the farmers can't get them picked on current wages, they will lose all their money, and make nothing.
They will either invest in machinery to automate picking, or pay higher wages to attract labour, and get them sold at either lower margins, or slightly higher prices, or, will decide to plant a more profitable crop next year, or decide there's a more profitable use for the land than mass horticulture.
When the economic climate changes, business changes.
Crops are rotting in the fields as Cornish farms have been unable to fully harvest crops this year due to a sharp fall in migrant labour.
You do know the word crop is referring to horticultural produce?
"Horticulture is the science and art of growing (plants) - fruit, vegetables, flowers, and any other cultivar."0 -
When her husband calls for Boris to go then it will be serious for him but he has specifically said tonight he wants Boris to stay so I would suggest the political point scoring is inappropriate at this timeTheuniondivvie said:
Hey Nazanin, stop yer snivelling, it's just Boris being Boris.Big_G_NorthWales said:
No it was Boris dare I say being Boris and that is why he will not lead the partyAlastairMeeks said:
Not so much that he misspoke, it was a jawbone malfunction.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Did I spell it right ?Ishmael_Z said:
"misspoke" is the most weaselly word in the English language, except that it isn't really in the English language.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Wiki entry is interesting and Boris misspoke. However the story on Gove today is just poor journalism. I heard Gove's interview with Marr and his comments were nowhere near that which are being reported.Alistair said:JFC even if she was training journalists (the horror) Boris shouldn't be confirming that in public.
Have we ever had such superficial crass media reporting than we are seeing now. I do wonder if the public have far more common sense than some in the media think otherwise TM and the conservatives would be 15-20% down in the polls.
We all deserve better more honest and balanced journalism0 -
Telegraph - economists forecast 65 billion windfall for UK on Brexit.
Makes a change0 -
A bit of 'down, down, deeper and down' to go yet though.Benpointer said:
Suspect we'll all become Status Quo fans by 2021YellowSubmarine said:Interesting to note Boris has actually retreated today over Brexit. The fauxtrage over this leaked letter over shadows it's comments. He's now pushing 30/6/21 as the last day of transition. As opposed to dying in a ditch over " not a day more " than two years when he was trying to sabotage May's Florence speech. While of course it's bonkers to make 3 months into a theological dispute it was Boris' choice to do so and he's now backed down. And backed down in a letter clearly designed to appear as if he is on the offensive. So quietly the Status Quo transition goes up from 24 to 27 months.
0 -
@Stodge I think it's a mix of the calendar ( Armistice Day falling next to Remembrance Day this year and neither being a working day so office hours organisations need to do it on Friday for fear of being seen to ignore it ) and the shift to English Shintoism.0
-
No more British poodles in Brussels. What a pity.calum said:Getting serious now
https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/9298110404134830080 -
AlastairMeeks said:
"Crops are rotting in the fields..."tlg86 said:
In contrast to agriculture, horticulture does not include large-scale crop production or animal husbandry.AlastairMeeks said:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horticulturetlg86 said:
I know what it means. It's what they do at Wisley rather than Lincolnshire.AlastairMeeks said:
Look up the meaning of the word horticultural.tlg86 said:
You mean this paragraph?AlastairMeeks said:
Take up the photo choice with the Falmouth Packet. Presumably they had reason to think it relevant. Their opening paragraph seems to have been overlooked by the diehard Leavers too.steve_garner said:
Since when were carrots horticulture? Who knew? As Alastair Meeks might say.Casino_Royale said:
Surely, the market will correct this automatically?AlastairMeeks said:It turns out that fruit and veg don't pick themselves. Who knew?
https://twitter.com/ProfAFinlayson/status/929801925167591426
If the farmers can't get them picked on current wages, they will lose all their money, and make nothing.
They will either invest in machinery to automate picking, or pay higher wages to attract labour, and get them sold at either lower margins, or slightly higher prices, or, will decide to plant a more profitable crop next year, or decide there's a more profitable use for the land than mass horticulture.
When the economic climate changes, business changes.
Crops are rotting in the fields as Cornish farms have been unable to fully harvest crops this year due to a sharp fall in migrant labour.
You do know the word crop is referring to horticultural produce?
"Horticulture is the science and art of growing (plants) - fruit, vegetables, flowers, and any other cultivar."
Crop rotation in the 14th century was considerably more widespread after ...
0 -
The 'economists' are one economist - Patrick Minford - who famously said that the Irish border wouldn't be a problem because we already have passport checks there as the UK isn't in the Schengen zone.Big_G_NorthWales said:Telegraph - economists forecast 65 billion windfall for UK on Brexit.
Makes a change
Even the associate editor of the Telegraph isn't buying it:
https://twitter.com/JeremyWarnerUK/status/9298030738574745610 -
It was £135 bn in AugustBig_G_NorthWales said:Telegraph - economists forecast 65 billion windfall for UK on Brexit.
Makes a change
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2017/08/20/finally-refreshing-optimism-brexit-free-trade/0 -
@AlastairMeeks - I take it back, they should have said agriculture. Here's one of the people complaining. They do grow food crops:
http://www.rivieraproduce.eu/archives/1266#0 -
The economists are a 16 strong group according to the report. The DT knows the difference between singular and plural. Don't let the facts get in the way of your anti-Brexit spin eh William.williamglenn said:
The 'economists' are one economist - Patrick Minford - who famously said that the Irish border wouldn't be a problem because we already have passport checks there as the UK isn't in the Schengen zone.Big_G_NorthWales said:Telegraph - economists forecast 65 billion windfall for UK on Brexit.
Makes a change
Even the associate editor of the Telegraph isn't buying it:
https://twitter.com/JeremyWarnerUK/status/9298030738574745610 -
So remain economist are worshipped leave are to be burned as hereticswilliamglenn said:
The 'economists' are one economist - Patrick Minford - who famously said that the Irish border wouldn't be a problem because we already have passport checks there as the UK isn't in the Schengen zone.Big_G_NorthWales said:Telegraph - economists forecast 65 billion windfall for UK on Brexit.
Makes a change
Even the associate editor of the Telegraph isn't buying it:
https://twitter.com/JeremyWarnerUK/status/9298030738574745610 -
'Economists for Brexit/Free Trade' does seem to have expanded from its humble beginnings as a vanity boilerplate for Patrick Minford and is now a real rogues gallery including people like Liam Halligan, Tim Montgomerie and Jacob Rees-Mogg.steve_garner said:
The economists are a 16 strong group according to the report. The DT knows the difference between singular and plural. Don't let the facts get in the way of your anti-Brexit spin eh William.williamglenn said:
The 'economists' are one economist - Patrick Minford - who famously said that the Irish border wouldn't be a problem because we already have passport checks there as the UK isn't in the Schengen zone.Big_G_NorthWales said:Telegraph - economists forecast 65 billion windfall for UK on Brexit.
Makes a change
Even the associate editor of the Telegraph isn't buying it:
https://twitter.com/JeremyWarnerUK/status/929803073857474561
https://www.economistsforfreetrade.com/who-we-are/
Previously, Minford was claiming an annual benefit of £135bn, so presumably he had to scale down the exuberance to persuade others to put their names to his missives.
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-409727760 -
'Real rogues' - is that how the remainers want to dish the alternative arguments - sad reallywilliamglenn said:
'Economists for Brexit/Free Trade' does seem to have expanded from its humble beginnings as a vanity boilerplate for Patrick Minford and is now a real rogues gallery including people like Liam Halligan, Tim Montgomerie and Jacob Rees-Mogg.steve_garner said:
The economists are a 16 strong group according to the report. The DT knows the difference between singular and plural. Don't let the facts get in the way of your anti-Brexit spin eh William.williamglenn said:
The 'economists' are one economist - Patrick Minford - who famously said that the Irish border wouldn't be a problem because we already have passport checks there as the UK isn't in the Schengen zone.Big_G_NorthWales said:Telegraph - economists forecast 65 billion windfall for UK on Brexit.
Makes a change
Even the associate editor of the Telegraph isn't buying it:
https://twitter.com/JeremyWarnerUK/status/929803073857474561
https://www.economistsforfreetrade.com/who-we-are/0 -
No sign of any new barrel scraping Paradise Paper stories...was that it....a whole year of work and even after 3 days they were resorting to Gary Lineker avoided 1% stamp duty type stories...0
-
So Roger Bootle, Tim Congdon, David Blake, Warwick Lightfoot and Neil Mackinnon, amongst others are all rogues are they? By that you mean they don't agree with your view of the EU. Next you'll be telling us Michael Gove was right all along about experts.williamglenn said:
'Economists for Brexit/Free Trade' does seem to have expanded from its humble beginnings as a vanity boilerplate for Patrick Minford and is now a real rogues gallery including people like Liam Halligan, Tim Montgomerie and Jacob Rees-Mogg.steve_garner said:
The economists are a 16 strong group according to the report. The DT knows the difference between singular and plural. Don't let the facts get in the way of your anti-Brexit spin eh William.williamglenn said:
The 'economists' are one economist - Patrick Minford - who famously said that the Irish border wouldn't be a problem because we already have passport checks there as the UK isn't in the Schengen zone.Big_G_NorthWales said:Telegraph - economists forecast 65 billion windfall for UK on Brexit.
Makes a change
Even the associate editor of the Telegraph isn't buying it:
https://twitter.com/JeremyWarnerUK/status/929803073857474561
https://www.economistsforfreetrade.com/who-we-are/
Previously, Minford was claiming an annual benefit of £135bn, so presumably he had to scale down the exuberance to persuade others to put their names to his missives.
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-409727760 -
I think some of it is to do with the decline of religion.stodge said:Evening all
On matters Poppy, we seem to have had Remembrance Weekend. I was at a Council office on Friday and we all stopped at 11am for a two minute silence. Yesterday Mrs Stodge and I were in the towels at John Lewis at Lakeside (simmer down, TSE) when everything stopped again and today we are out in East Ham High Street and once again everything stopped at 11 as the civic dignitaries led by the Deputy Mayor (Sir Robin goes to Stratford) did their bit,
In my youth I was well aware of Remembrance Sunday but since when did we have a two-minute silence on the 11th and since when did we have one on the 10th as well ?
Now, there will be those who say with considerable justification that six minutes of silence is paltry recognition not only for those who have fallen but for those they have left behind and of course that's valid and accurate but I just think a single national act of remembrance is what this should be about not lots of little acts.
There just seems a desperate desire to "do the right thing" or be seen to be doing the right thing. I don't know - just an observation. If we wanted to do the right thing by the widows, widowers and dependents of those lost fighting for our life and values, we'd do a lot more than buy poppies once a year.
ie Religion used to provide people with their "dose" of doing the right thing / gathering together collectively etc - but now that religion has declined so much a void has opened up.
So other reasons / events are being found to fill that gap - and doing more remembrance is an obvious opportunity.0 -
Whether he goes or not isn't really the point.Big_G_NorthWales said:
When her husband calls for Boris to go then it will be serious for him but he has specifically said tonight he wants Boris to stay so I would suggest the political point scoring is inappropriate at this timeTheuniondivvie said:
Hey Nazanin, stop yer snivelling, it's just Boris being Boris.Big_G_NorthWales said:
No it was Boris dare I say being Boris and that is why he will not lead the partyAlastairMeeks said:
Not so much that he misspoke, it was a jawbone malfunction.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Did I spell it right ?Ishmael_Z said:
"misspoke" is the most weaselly word in the English language, except that it isn't really in the English language.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Wiki entry is interesting and Boris misspoke. However the story on Gove today is just poor journalism. I heard Gove's interview with Marr and his comments were nowhere near that which are being reported.Alistair said:JFC even if she was training journalists (the horror) Boris shouldn't be confirming that in public.
Have we ever had such superficial crass media reporting than we are seeing now. I do wonder if the public have far more common sense than some in the media think otherwise TM and the conservatives would be 15-20% down in the polls.
We all deserve better more honest and balanced journalism
The man often comes across as a caddish rogue, and it can be laughed away with a 'Boris will be Boris' quip. This time the post-gaffe manoeuvring has been unusually distasteful. Bearing in mind what it must be like in a Tehran prison the distinct lack of humanity is dreadful.
Boris's is so casual he has turned a bad situation into an embarrassing diplomatic crisis. He should be on the next plane to Tehran to be seen to sort this fiasco out. Then he should resign!
I suppose what it boils down to is which is more important, the liberty and maybe life of some random woman or the career prospects of a statesman who considers himself to be of potentially Churchillian stature!0 -
-
TSE favourite hasn't got much good to say about May...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/12/theresa-may-jeopardising-integrity-credibility-party-senior/0 -
Well Neil Mackinnon works for the Russian state. Their judgement and loyalties are certainly questionable.steve_garner said:
So Roger Bootle, Tim Congdon, David Blake, Warwick Lightfoot and Neil Mackinnon, amongst others are all rogues are they? By that you mean they don't agree with your view of the EU. Next you'll be telling us Michael Gove was right all along about experts.williamglenn said:
'Economists for Brexit/Free Trade' does seem to have expanded from its humble beginnings as a vanity boilerplate for Patrick Minford and is now a real rogues gallery including people like Liam Halligan, Tim Montgomerie and Jacob Rees-Mogg.steve_garner said:
The economists are a 16 strong group according to the report. The DT knows the difference between singular and plural. Don't let the facts get in the way of your anti-Brexit spin eh William.williamglenn said:
The 'economists' are one economist - Patrick Minford - who famously said that the Irish border wouldn't be a problem because we already have passport checks there as the UK isn't in the Schengen zone.Big_G_NorthWales said:Telegraph - economists forecast 65 billion windfall for UK on Brexit.
Makes a change
Even the associate editor of the Telegraph isn't buying it:
https://twitter.com/JeremyWarnerUK/status/929803073857474561
https://www.economistsforfreetrade.com/who-we-are/
Previously, Minford was claiming an annual benefit of £135bn, so presumably he had to scale down the exuberance to persuade others to put their names to his missives.
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-409727760 -
HMF is a good deal busier than it was when you were a lad.stodge said:Evening all
On matters Poppy, we seem to have had Remembrance Weekend. I was at a Council office on Friday and we all stopped at 11am for a two minute silence. Yesterday Mrs Stodge and I were in the towels at John Lewis at Lakeside (simmer down, TSE) when everything stopped again and today we are out in East Ham High Street and once again everything stopped at 11 as the civic dignitaries led by the Deputy Mayor (Sir Robin goes to Stratford) did their bit,
In my youth I was well aware of Remembrance Sunday but since when did we have a two-minute silence on the 11th and since when did we have one on the 10th as well ?
Now, there will be those who say with considerable justification that six minutes of silence is paltry recognition not only for those who have fallen but for those they have left behind and of course that's valid and accurate but I just think a single national act of remembrance is what this should be about not lots of little acts.
There just seems a desperate desire to "do the right thing" or be seen to be doing the right thing. I don't know - just an observation. If we wanted to do the right thing by the widows, widowers and dependents of those lost fighting for our life and values, we'd do a lot more than buy poppies once a year.
Equally, there have not been the unambiguous victories as in previous eras so there is some overcompensating going on.0 -
I've always said Johnny Mercer is awesome, more proof.
Theresa May is jeopardising the 'integrity and credibility' of our party, senior MP says in blistering attack.
Johnny Mercer has been to war and can recognise chaos when he sees it. The Conservative MP, tipped as a future leader, believes a state of ‘anarchy’ is in danger of engulfing his party.
In an interview with the Telegraph today, the former Army captain, who served with distinction in Afghanistan, fires a warning shot in Theresa May’s direction that she needs to urgently get a grip on a ‘depressing’ series of events. If she doesn’t, he says, the nation will be wrecked by the “existential threat’ posed by the prospect of Jeremy Corbyn in Downing Street and John McDonnell living next door.
Mr Mercer’s comments will fuel the crisis overwhelming Mrs May. The disastrous election, the resignation within a week of two Cabinet ministers and the ongoing Westminster sex scandal has led Mr Mercer to conclude that Mrs May’s premiership has reached a ‘critical point’.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/12/theresa-may-jeopardising-integrity-credibility-party-senior/0 -
Is there an echo in here?TheScreamingEagles said:I've always said Johnny Mercer is awesome, more proof.
Theresa May is jeopardising the 'integrity and credibility' of our party, senior MP says in blistering attack.
Johnny Mercer has been to war and can recognise chaos when he sees it. The Conservative MP, tipped as a future leader, believes a state of ‘anarchy’ is in danger of engulfing his party.
In an interview with the Telegraph today, the former Army captain, who served with distinction in Afghanistan, fires a warning shot in Theresa May’s direction that she needs to urgently get a grip on a ‘depressing’ series of events. If she doesn’t, he says, the nation will be wrecked by the “existential threat’ posed by the prospect of Jeremy Corbyn in Downing Street and John McDonnell living next door.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/12/theresa-may-jeopardising-integrity-credibility-party-senior/0 -
@Benpointer Indeed. The other aspect of 30/6/21 being the last day of Status Quo transition is it's 5 years and one week after the Referendum result. It's a long time for folk to change their mind in and begs the question " how long is the referendum result valid for ? ".0
-
Always said he had awesome judgment.FrancisUrquhart said:TSE favourite hasn't got much good to say about May...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/12/theresa-may-jeopardising-integrity-credibility-party-senior/0 -
The last 15-20 years has seen a turn to the mawkish and ostentatious when it come to poppy wearing and silences.stodge said:Evening all
On matters Poppy, we seem to have had Remembrance Weekend. I was at a Council office on Friday and we all stopped at 11am for a two minute silence. Yesterday Mrs Stodge and I were in the towels at John Lewis at Lakeside (simmer down, TSE) when everything stopped again and today we are out in East Ham High Street and once again everything stopped at 11 as the civic dignitaries led by the Deputy Mayor (Sir Robin goes to Stratford) did their bit,
In my youth I was well aware of Remembrance Sunday but since when did we have a two-minute silence on the 11th and since when did we have one on the 10th as well ?
Now, there will be those who say with considerable justification that six minutes of silence is paltry recognition not only for those who have fallen but for those they have left behind and of course that's valid and accurate but I just think a single national act of remembrance is what this should be about not lots of little acts.
There just seems a desperate desire to "do the right thing" or be seen to be doing the right thing. I don't know - just an observation. If we wanted to do the right thing by the widows, widowers and dependents of those lost fighting for our life and values, we'd do a lot more than buy poppies once a year.
When I was a lad and marching in Remembrance Day parades, holding the flag or laying the wreath there was a 2 minutes silence on Remembrance Day and that was it. Nothing on the 11th.0 -
I am not quite sure why giving an interview like this will help avoid the 'anarchy' - it will rather stoke it.TheScreamingEagles said:I've always said Johnny Mercer is awesome, more proof.
Theresa May is jeopardising the 'integrity and credibility' of our party, senior MP says in blistering attack.
Johnny Mercer has been to war and can recognise chaos when he sees it. The Conservative MP, tipped as a future leader, believes a state of ‘anarchy’ is in danger of engulfing his party.
In an interview with the Telegraph today, the former Army captain, who served with distinction in Afghanistan, fires a warning shot in Theresa May’s direction that she needs to urgently get a grip on a ‘depressing’ series of events. If she doesn’t, he says, the nation will be wrecked by the “existential threat’ posed by the prospect of Jeremy Corbyn in Downing Street and John McDonnell living next door.
Mr Mercer’s comments will fuel the crisis overwhelming Mrs May. The disastrous election, the resignation within a week of two Cabinet ministers and the ongoing Westminster sex scandal has led Mr Mercer to conclude that Mrs May’s premiership has reached a ‘critical point’.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/12/theresa-may-jeopardising-integrity-credibility-party-senior/
I don't massively disagree with him - but interviews like this won't help the party. And I am not sure it will help his chances of achieving high office.0 -
Quite frankly that is over the top - I am sure Boris means no harm to her and will use his best efforts to get her home. It has become too politicalMexicanpete said:
Whether he goes or not isn't really the point.Big_G_NorthWales said:
When her husband calls for Boris to go then it will be serious for him but he has specifically said tonight he wants Boris to stay so I would suggest the political point scoring is inappropriate at this timeTheuniondivvie said:
Hey Nazanin, stop yer snivelling, it's just Boris being Boris.Big_G_NorthWales said:
No it was Boris dare I say being Boris and that is why he will not lead the partyAlastairMeeks said:
Not so much that he misspoke, it was a jawbone malfunction.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Did I spell it right ?Ishmael_Z said:
"misspoke" is the most weaselly word in the English language, except that it isn't really in the English language.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Wiki entry is interesting and Boris misspoke. However the story on Gove today is just poor journalism. I heard Gove's interview with Marr and his comments were nowhere near that which are being reported.Alistair said:JFC even if she was training journalists (the horror) Boris shouldn't be confirming that in public.
Have we ever had such superficial crass media reporting than we are seeing now. I do wonder if the public have far more common sense than some in the media think otherwise TM and the conservatives would be 15-20% down in the polls.
We all deserve better more honest and balanced journalism
The man often comes across as a caddish rogue, and it can be laughed away with a 'Boris will be Boris' quip. This time the post-gaffe manoeuvring has been unusually distasteful. Bearing in mind what it must be like in a Tehran prison the distinct lack of humanity is dreadful.
Boris's is so casual he has turned a bad situation into an embarrassing diplomatic crisis. He should be on the next plane to Tehran to be seen to sort this fiasco out. Then he should resign!
I suppose what it boils down to is which is more important, the liberty and maybe life of some random woman or the career prospects of a statesman who considers himself to be of potentially Churchillian stature!0 -
The so-called Culture Wars were started by the left in the 1960s and 1970s. I don't think anyone disputes that.tyson said:
It's terrible, sad and utterly depressing that the US and the UK are so polarised. There is nothing anyone can do about it because as long as we have Trump and Brexit and such populist claptrap..... nationalism, bigotry, racism, misogyny and vile hatred will all thrive. It is all akin to a teacher encouraging bullying in the playground.Sean_F said:
Moore is unpopular for a Republican in Alabama, (Trump won the State by 28%, whereas Moore was leading by about 10%, prior to the story breaking). But, I think he'll still win, for the reasons given by TSE. Despite this poll, three others conducted after the story put him narrowly ahead.Roger said:
that's funny!TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Because good people like Johnny Mercer have kept quiet for months trying to give Mrs May time to fix her problems, which she has pissed away by promoting no marks like Gavin Williamson.oxfordsimon said:
I am not quite sure why giving an interview like this will help avoid the 'anarchy' - it will rather stoke it.TheScreamingEagles said:I've always said Johnny Mercer is awesome, more proof.
Theresa May is jeopardising the 'integrity and credibility' of our party, senior MP says in blistering attack.
Johnny Mercer has been to war and can recognise chaos when he sees it. The Conservative MP, tipped as a future leader, believes a state of ‘anarchy’ is in danger of engulfing his party.
In an interview with the Telegraph today, the former Army captain, who served with distinction in Afghanistan, fires a warning shot in Theresa May’s direction that she needs to urgently get a grip on a ‘depressing’ series of events. If she doesn’t, he says, the nation will be wrecked by the “existential threat’ posed by the prospect of Jeremy Corbyn in Downing Street and John McDonnell living next door.
Mr Mercer’s comments will fuel the crisis overwhelming Mrs May. The disastrous election, the resignation within a week of two Cabinet ministers and the ongoing Westminster sex scandal has led Mr Mercer to conclude that Mrs May’s premiership has reached a ‘critical point’.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/12/theresa-may-jeopardising-integrity-credibility-party-senior/
I don't massively disagree with him - but interviews like this won't help the party.
We can't go on like this.0 -
Presumably it's a complete conincidence that this appears days after he has been overlooked for promotion for the 2nd time in a week.TheScreamingEagles said:I've always said Johnny Mercer is awesome, more proof.
Theresa May is jeopardising the 'integrity and credibility' of our party, senior MP says in blistering attack.
Johnny Mercer has been to war and can recognise chaos when he sees it. The Conservative MP, tipped as a future leader, believes a state of ‘anarchy’ is in danger of engulfing his party.
In an interview with the Telegraph today, the former Army captain, who served with distinction in Afghanistan, fires a warning shot in Theresa May’s direction that she needs to urgently get a grip on a ‘depressing’ series of events. If she doesn’t, he says, the nation will be wrecked by the “existential threat’ posed by the prospect of Jeremy Corbyn in Downing Street and John McDonnell living next door.
Mr Mercer’s comments will fuel the crisis overwhelming Mrs May. The disastrous election, the resignation within a week of two Cabinet ministers and the ongoing Westminster sex scandal has led Mr Mercer to conclude that Mrs May’s premiership has reached a ‘critical point’.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/12/theresa-may-jeopardising-integrity-credibility-party-senior/0 -
Today's Dan Hodges column very carefully refers to May's remaining " months " in office.TheScreamingEagles said:
Always said he had awesome judgment.FrancisUrquhart said:TSE favourite hasn't got much good to say about May...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/12/theresa-may-jeopardising-integrity-credibility-party-senior/0 -
LolAndyJS said:
The so-called Culture Wars were started by the left in the 1960s and 1970s. I don't think anyone disputes that.tyson said:
It's terrible, sad and utterly depressing that the US and the UK are so polarised. There is nothing anyone can do about it because as long as we have Trump and Brexit and such populist claptrap..... nationalism, bigotry, racism, misogyny and vile hatred will all thrive. It is all akin to a teacher encouraging bullying in the playground.Sean_F said:
Moore is unpopular for a Republican in Alabama, (Trump won the State by 28%, whereas Moore was leading by about 10%, prior to the story breaking). But, I think he'll still win, for the reasons given by TSE. Despite this poll, three others conducted after the story put him narrowly ahead.Roger said:
that's funny!TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Big_G, at what point, if any, do you think Boris should have to pay for his stupendous ineptitude?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Quite frankly that is over the top - I am sure Boris means no harm to her and will use his best efforts to get her home. It has become too politicalMexicanpete said:
Whether he goes or not isn't really the point.Big_G_NorthWales said:
When her husband calls for Boris to go then it will be serious for him but he has specifically said tonight he wants Boris to stay so I would suggest the political point scoring is inappropriate at this timeTheuniondivvie said:
Hey Nazanin, stop yer snivelling, it's just Boris being Boris.Big_G_NorthWales said:
No it was Boris dare I say being Boris and that is why he will not lead the partyAlastairMeeks said:
Not so much that he misspoke, it was a jawbone malfunction.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Did I spell it right ?Ishmael_Z said:
"misspoke" is the most weaselly word in the English language, except that it isn't really in the English language.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Wiki entry is interesting and Boris misspoke. However the story on Gove today is just poor journalism. I heard Gove's interview with Marr and his comments were nowhere near that which are being reported.Alistair said:JFC even if she was training journalists (the horror) Boris shouldn't be confirming that in public.
Have we ever had such superficial crass media reporting than we are seeing now. I do wonder if the public have far more common sense than some in the media think otherwise TM and the conservatives would be 15-20% down in the polls.
We all deserve better more honest and balanced journalism
The man often comes across as a caddish rogue, and it can be laughed away with a 'Boris will be Boris' quip. This time the post-gaffe manoeuvring has been unusually distasteful. Bearing in mind what it must be like in a Tehran prison the distinct lack of humanity is dreadful.
Boris's is so casual he has turned a bad situation into an embarrassing diplomatic crisis. He should be on the next plane to Tehran to be seen to sort this fiasco out. Then he should resign!
I suppose what it boils down to is which is more important, the liberty and maybe life of some random woman or the career prospects of a statesman who considers himself to be of potentially Churchillian stature!0 -
John Redwood is embodiment of "once a c*nt, always a c*nt".calum said:0 -
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I dispute that.AndyJS said:
The so-called Culture Wars were started by the left in the 1960s and 1970s. I don't think anyone disputes that.tyson said:
It's terrible, sad and utterly depressing that the US and the UK are so polarised. There is nothing anyone can do about it because as long as we have Trump and Brexit and such populist claptrap..... nationalism, bigotry, racism, misogyny and vile hatred will all thrive. It is all akin to a teacher encouraging bullying in the playground.Sean_F said:
Moore is unpopular for a Republican in Alabama, (Trump won the State by 28%, whereas Moore was leading by about 10%, prior to the story breaking). But, I think he'll still win, for the reasons given by TSE. Despite this poll, three others conducted after the story put him narrowly ahead.Roger said:
that's funny!TheScreamingEagles said:
I once wrote a piece arguing the American culture wars began in earnest in 1925 by religious conservatives with the Butler Act.0 -
Even there he'll f*ck up (forgive the pun!).Scott_P said:0 -
Lol - I must remember to use the phrase "I don't think anyone disputes that" in some of my posts. As in: the Tories are completely shite, I don't think anyone disputes that.TheScreamingEagles said:
I dispute that.AndyJS said:
The so-called Culture Wars were started by the left in the 1960s and 1970s. I don't think anyone disputes that.tyson said:
It's terrible, sad and utterly depressing that the US and the UK are so polarised. There is nothing anyone can do about it because as long as we have Trump and Brexit and such populist claptrap..... nationalism, bigotry, racism, misogyny and vile hatred will all thrive. It is all akin to a teacher encouraging bullying in the playground.Sean_F said:
Moore is unpopular for a Republican in Alabama, (Trump won the State by 28%, whereas Moore was leading by about 10%, prior to the story breaking). But, I think he'll still win, for the reasons given by TSE. Despite this poll, three others conducted after the story put him narrowly ahead.Roger said:
that's funny!TheScreamingEagles said:
I once wrote a piece arguing the American culture wars began in earnest in 1925 by religious conservatives with the Butler Act.0 -
Intelligent contribution to the debate.Scott_P said:0 -
I would tend to agree, but the RBL has started producing a competing proliferation of poppy related merchandise to replace the previously uniform paper poppy. I remember when they were embossed on the black centre as Haig Fund.Alistair said:
The last 15-20 years has seen a turn to the mawkish and ostentatious when it come to poppy wearing and silences.stodge said:Evening all
On matters Poppy, we seem to have had Remembrance Weekend. I was at a Council office on Friday and we all stopped at 11am for a two minute silence. Yesterday Mrs Stodge and I were in the towels at John Lewis at Lakeside (simmer down, TSE) when everything stopped again and today we are out in East Ham High Street and once again everything stopped at 11 as the civic dignitaries led by the Deputy Mayor (Sir Robin goes to Stratford) did their bit,
In my youth I was well aware of Remembrance Sunday but since when did we have a two-minute silence on the 11th and since when did we have one on the 10th as well ?
Now, there will be those who say with considerable justification that six minutes of silence is paltry recognition not only for those who have fallen but for those they have left behind and of course that's valid and accurate but I just think a single national act of remembrance is what this should be about not lots of little acts.
There just seems a desperate desire to "do the right thing" or be seen to be doing the right thing. I don't know - just an observation. If we wanted to do the right thing by the widows, widowers and dependents of those lost fighting for our life and values, we'd do a lot more than buy poppies once a year.
When I was a lad and marching in Remembrance Day parades, holding the flag or laying the wreath there was a 2 minutes silence on Remembrance Day and that was it. Nothing on the 11th.
To some extent this is positive. Paper poppies fall off modern clothes without lapels very easily. I have a plastic clip on one this year..
I was at the first ever football fixture with embroiderd poppies on the shirts, and this does seem a useful way of bringing remembrance to a wider audience.
https://www.lcfc.com/news/428985
There is a mawkish trend recently for roadside shrines at scenes of tragic deaths, such as motor vehicle accidents. Not just temporary ones either. There is one next to William Hill on Uppingham road where a teenager was stabbed to death 18 months ago. The flowers and notes are often replenished (I wish they would take off the cellophane). It must help people with mourning, but to me someone should be remembered where they lived, rather some random spot of sudden death.
0 -
The phrase comes from 1800s Germany.TheScreamingEagles said:
I dispute that.AndyJS said:
The so-called Culture Wars were started by the left in the 1960s and 1970s. I don't think anyone disputes that.tyson said:
It's terrible, sad and utterly depressing that the US and the UK are so polarised. There is nothing anyone can do about it because as long as we have Trump and Brexit and such populist claptrap..... nationalism, bigotry, racism, misogyny and vile hatred will all thrive. It is all akin to a teacher encouraging bullying in the playground.Sean_F said:
Moore is unpopular for a Republican in Alabama, (Trump won the State by 28%, whereas Moore was leading by about 10%, prior to the story breaking). But, I think he'll still win, for the reasons given by TSE. Despite this poll, three others conducted after the story put him narrowly ahead.Roger said:
that's funny!TheScreamingEagles said:
I once wrote a piece arguing the American culture wars began in earnest in 1925 by religious conservatives with the Butler Act.0
