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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » As the pressure grows on Trump over Russian connections his co

SystemSystem Posts: 12,114
edited October 2017 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » As the pressure grows on Trump over Russian connections his core supporters rally round even more

A new US poll by Public Policy Polling finds record level of support for the President to be impeached. Now 49% say he should with 41% saying he shouldn’t.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,576
    The Great Polariser indeed.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,654
    How many games can United win while playing utter shite?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,654
    Anyway on topic the conclusion that Russia wanted Hillary to win takes fake news to a new level. The latest estimate I saw was that there was something like $75m of spending on social media in support of Trump. Did they not notice?
  • DavidL said:

    How many games can United win while playing utter shite?

    Just lazy and un United like - but they keep winning
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    To summarise:

    https://twitter.com/mrjamesob/status/924292066884182018

    Emperor Trump has the finest, most delicate suit of clothes. Only a fool would not see them!
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,654

    DavidL said:

    How many games can United win while playing utter shite?

    Just lazy and un United like - but they keep winning
    They have a good defence but without Pogba the midfield really lacks creativity and power. But they keep winning.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,576

    We don’t need to know about affairs, or sexual preferences. Those should be private matters.

    I absolutely agree, although surprising numbers disagree on the first. Not that cheating is moral behaviour, so I'm not surprised some think it relevant, but I am surprised at how many and how strongly feel that way.
  • TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    edited October 2017
    There may be a USA polarisation over Trump, but fortunately the constitutional framers were careful. Still, Trump would, I feel, be better knotted up in a corner somewhere obscure.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,576
    DavidL said:

    How many games can United win while playing utter shite?

    The same as every year - more than they deserve.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    How many games can United win while playing utter shite?

    Just lazy and un United like - but they keep winning
    They have a good defence but without Pogba the midfield really lacks creativity and power. But they keep winning.
    Chelsea have a Kante shaped hole in the middle.

    As a Fox, I know how that feels.
  • FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486
    Impressive that 57% of Repub respondents want Trump to be 2020 nominee.

    Also: Big round of applause for Congress:

    82% disapproval among Trump voters, 76% among Clinton voters, 77% overall (other voters and non-voters 64%)
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,654
    Toms said:

    There may be a USA polarisation over Trump, but fortunately the constitutional framers were careful. Still, Trump would, I feel, be better knotted up in a corner somewhere obscure.

    Agreed. My money is still on him completing his first term. If he gets impeached it will be in the second term like Nixon and Clinton. It just takes that long for the momentum to build.
  • To summarise:

    https://twitter.com/mrjamesob/status/924292066884182018

    Emperor Trump has the finest, most delicate suit of clothes. Only a fool would not see them!

    The Russians damaged Clinton's campaign so much that she... won the popular vote?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,576
    Freggles said:

    Impressive that 57% of Repub respondents want Trump to be 2020 nominee.

    Also: Big round of applause for Congress:

    82% disapproval among Trump voters, 76% among Clinton voters, 77% overall (other voters and non-voters 64%)

    What would they care when there's such a high incumbency factor (assuming they are not primaried)?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,690

    To summarise:

    https://twitter.com/mrjamesob/status/924292066884182018

    Emperor Trump has the finest, most delicate suit of clothes. Only a fool would not see them!

    People believe what they want to be true. There is a core of people who are emotionally committed to Trump, and therefore engage in extraordinary mental gymnastics to maintain their views on him.

    As it happens, I don't believe Donald Trump conspired with the Russian government. It seems extraordinarily unlikely that a man whose campaign was based around long, rambling and incoherent speeches, combined with a bunch of undeliverable promises engaged in a conspiracy with a foreign power. Some of the people who worked for him, mind, may have been a little too keen to get information to help their candidate.

    Back to cognitive dissonance: this is all about the slow drip, drip of information. It's death by a thousand cuts.
  • Is the suspect the only person in America without access to a real gun?
  • FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486

    To summarise:

    https://twitter.com/mrjamesob/status/924292066884182018

    Emperor Trump has the finest, most delicate suit of clothes. Only a fool would not see them!

    The Russians damaged Clinton's campaign so much that she... won the popular vote?
    If you only beat Donald Trump narrowly, that means you lost heavily.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,690
    Freggles said:

    Impressive that 57% of Repub respondents want Trump to be 2020 nominee.

    Also: Big round of applause for Congress:

    82% disapproval among Trump voters, 76% among Clinton voters, 77% overall (other voters and non-voters 64%)

    My guess is that, one year in, just 57% of your own party wanting you to be the nominee is pretty poor polling.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,974
    BBC news reporting that the attacker in New York was of central Asian descent who came to America in 2010 . though it seems he was a lone wolf according to NY Mayor Bill di Blasio.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,974
    edited October 2017
    Freggles said:

    Impressive that 57% of Repub respondents want Trump to be 2020 nominee.

    Also: Big round of applause for Congress:

    82% disapproval among Trump voters, 76% among Clinton voters, 77% overall (other voters and non-voters 64%)

    Even more Trump voters disapprove of the GOP Congress than Clinton voters do, the GOP are going to be trounced in the midterms next year on those numbers.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    rcs1000 said:

    To summarise:

    https://twitter.com/mrjamesob/status/924292066884182018

    Emperor Trump has the finest, most delicate suit of clothes. Only a fool would not see them!

    People believe what they want to be true. There is a core of people who are emotionally committed to Trump, and therefore engage in extraordinary mental gymnastics to maintain their views on him.

    As it happens, I don't believe Donald Trump conspired with the Russian government. It seems extraordinarily unlikely that a man whose campaign was based around long, rambling and incoherent speeches, combined with a bunch of undeliverable promises engaged in a conspiracy with a foreign power. Some of the people who worked for him, mind, may have been a little too keen to get information to help their candidate.

    Back to cognitive dissonance: this is all about the slow drip, drip of information. It's death by a thousand cuts.
    I agree. I think Trump is to incoherent to conspire, but as an easily manipulated man child, he was ripe for targetting by Putin.

    The cognitive dissonance comes from remembering Russia as a Communist enemy, when it is now an alt.right friend. Times have changed.
  • That list. Some things cannot be unseen. Ewww....
  • brendan16brendan16 Posts: 2,315

    To summarise:

    https://twitter.com/mrjamesob/status/924292066884182018

    Emperor Trump has the finest, most delicate suit of clothes. Only a fool would not see them!

    The Russians damaged Clinton's campaign so much that she... won the popular vote?
    Well thanks to California. But winning the popular vote doesn't count for much in the US or here as Mrs May found. You actually need to win under the rules in place. Maybe if she had visited Michigsn or Wisconsin a bit more than LA and San Francisco she might be President now.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,974
    edited October 2017

    That list. Some things cannot be unseen. Ewww....

    Indeed, video exists of 1 Tory MP having 3 males urinating on him apparently, the mind boggles
  • brendan16brendan16 Posts: 2,315
    edited October 2017
    HYUFD said:

    BBC news reporting that the attacker in New York was of central Asian descent who came to America in 2010 . though it seems he was a lone wolf according to NY Mayor Bill di Blasio.

    The BBC - last with breaking news!

    Sayfullo Saipov (from Uzbekistan and lately Tampa FL) is apparently his name.

    http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2017/10/new_york_terror_attack_alleged_killer_sayfullo_sai.html
  • brendan16 said:

    HYUFD said:

    BBC news reporting that the attacker in New York was of central Asian descent who came to America in 2010 . though it seems he was a lone wolf according to NY Mayor Bill di Blasio.

    The BBC - last with breaking news!

    Sayfullo Saipaz from Uzbekistan is apparently his name.
    Locally known as Dave?
  • Has the unredacted list appeared in print? I've got a photo of the uncensored version. Had to re-read some of them. Wow...
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,111

    DavidL said:

    How many games can United win while playing utter shite?

    Just lazy and un United like - but they keep winning
    How long can that Un-United tag keep going...their level of football has been pedestrian to say the least for a number of years now....
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,068
    kle4 said:

    We don’t need to know about affairs, or sexual preferences. Those should be private matters.

    I absolutely agree, although surprising numbers disagree on the first. Not that cheating is moral behaviour, so I'm not surprised some think it relevant, but I am surprised at how many and how strongly feel that way.
    But, watersports?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,974
    brendan16 said:

    HYUFD said:

    BBC news reporting that the attacker in New York was of central Asian descent who came to America in 2010 . though it seems he was a lone wolf according to NY Mayor Bill di Blasio.

    The BBC - last with breaking news!

    Sayfullo Saipov from Uzbekistan is apparently his name.

    http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2017/10/new_york_terror_attack_alleged_killer_sayfullo_sai.html
    I think the details have only come out in the last half an hour or so but seems it was terror related but a lone wolf attack.
  • PBModeratorPBModerator Posts: 662
    edited October 2017
    Let's keep speculation down to a minimum. Only post something if you have a link to a reputable news source/outlet to go with it.
  • brendan16 said:

    To summarise:

    https://twitter.com/mrjamesob/status/924292066884182018

    Emperor Trump has the finest, most delicate suit of clothes. Only a fool would not see them!

    The Russians damaged Clinton's campaign so much that she... won the popular vote?
    Well thanks to California. But winning the popular vote doesn't count for much in the US or here as Mrs May found. You actually need to win under the rules in place. Maybe if she had visited Michigsn or Wisconsin a bit more than LA and San Francisco she might be President now.
    So the Russians secretly told her not to visit MI or WI or something?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Has the unredacted list appeared in print? I've got a photo of the uncensored version. Had to re-read some of them. Wow...

    Journalists on Twitter are bemoaning the fact they have to worry about libel. Unlike Twitter apparently
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,974
    edited October 2017

    Has the unredacted list appeared in print? I've got a photo of the uncensored version. Had to re-read some of them. Wow...

    The full list has been published in the US and the Mail now has named more names, Damian Green, Robert Halfon, Jake Berry, Mark Menzies and Justin Tomlinson and Steve Double added to Mark Garnier and Stephen Crabb
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5034799/Fresh-allegations-swirl-sex-Westminster.html
  • sladeslade Posts: 2,011
    It appears that Nottinghamshire police have said there is no evidence to prosecute Jason Zadrozny for child sexual offences. He came within 200 votes of winning Ashfield for the Lib Dems in 2010 but had to step down after the accusations were made. He has since been elected to the county council as an independent. He always denied the allegations and said they were politically motivated. I expect legal repercussions.
  • Some of the names on the list seem unfair - people who have had consensual affairs for example. Its the "inappropriate behaviour with male/female researchers" and "handsy" that are wrong. And its not party political as today's Labour rape allegation demonstrates.

    It appears to be men with delusions of power choosing to exercise their "power" over "subordinate" men and women in a sexual manner. Because its not about sex, its power. I am being "handsy" because I am more important than you and can do what I like. Its pathetic.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,625
    Has President Trumpskovic figured out what the hell is going on yet?
  • brendan16brendan16 Posts: 2,315
    edited October 2017

    Let's keep speculation down to a minimum. Only post something if you have a link to a reputable news source/outlet to go with it.

    The Mirror even has an everything we know about him article - and all the US networks are reporting it.

    The BBC isn't the only reputable news source.

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/everything-know-new-york-terror-11444679

    Newsweek too

    http://www.newsweek.com/who-sayfullo-saipov-new-york-terror-suspect-698056
  • Let's keep speculation down to a minimum. Only post something if you have a link to a reputable news source/outlet to go with it.

    Don't worry. I'm not quoting names.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,576
    Sean_F said:

    kle4 said:

    We don’t need to know about affairs, or sexual preferences. Those should be private matters.

    I absolutely agree, although surprising numbers disagree on the first. Not that cheating is moral behaviour, so I'm not surprised some think it relevant, but I am surprised at how many and how strongly feel that way.
    But, watersports?
    None of my business what some people enjoy so long as no laws are being broken. If we are to decide certain kinks are the sort of thing we don't want people to do if they are to represent us, we may as well make them illegal and be done with it.

    Now, the questions remains that if I know someone is into some things that squick me out, would I really discount that when deciding how to cast my vote, or would I psychologically justify voting for someone else even as my discomfort is the real factor? I'd hope not, but as Trump and supporters show, mental gymnastics are easy.
  • brendan16 said:

    Let's keep speculation down to a minimum. Only post something if you have a link to a reputable news source/outlet to go with it.

    The Mirror even has an everything we know about him article - and all the US networks are reporting it.

    The BBC isn't the only reputable news source.

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/everything-know-new-york-terror-11444679
    My apologies, I was referring to speculation regarding a hypothetical list of persons that may or may not exist.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Has President Trumpskovic figured out what the hell is going on yet?

    I don't think he has figured out what is going on in his own team yet, let alone the country.
  • Sean_F said:

    kle4 said:

    We don’t need to know about affairs, or sexual preferences. Those should be private matters.

    I absolutely agree, although surprising numbers disagree on the first. Not that cheating is moral behaviour, so I'm not surprised some think it relevant, but I am surprised at how many and how strongly feel that way.
    But, watersports?
    True story (and just for TSE!) - outside the loos at the Rose Garden in Regent's Park, London is a bed of roses of a variety named "Golden Showers" :lol:
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,576

    Has President Trumpskovic figured out what the hell is going on yet?

    I don't think he has figured out what is going on in his own team yet, let alone the country.
    DO SOMETHING!!

    (That tweet of his, which I took as his own internal stage direction, has really tickled me, as memes go)
  • Sean_F said:

    kle4 said:

    We don’t need to know about affairs, or sexual preferences. Those should be private matters.

    I absolutely agree, although surprising numbers disagree on the first. Not that cheating is moral behaviour, so I'm not surprised some think it relevant, but I am surprised at how many and how strongly feel that way.
    But, watersports?
    I have no problem with MPs having affairs or "odd sexual ponchants" or "uses prostitutes for odd sexual acts" or "urinating on him". Whatever. Your private business as long as you aren't openly hypocritical. MPs are entitled to a private life and to be as "deviant" as they like (who defines what is sexually deviant anyway?) as long as its consensual. So you can take about a third of the list off for all I care. The rest though is worrying - as is the wider attitude problem that guys think they are king shit and start doing what they like to whomever they like.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,068

    Sean_F said:

    kle4 said:

    We don’t need to know about affairs, or sexual preferences. Those should be private matters.

    I absolutely agree, although surprising numbers disagree on the first. Not that cheating is moral behaviour, so I'm not surprised some think it relevant, but I am surprised at how many and how strongly feel that way.
    But, watersports?
    True story (and just for TSE!) - outside the loos at the Rose Garden in Regent's Park, London is a bed of roses of a variety named "Golden Showers" :lol:
    Unfortunate name.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,111
    HYUFD said:

    That list. Some things cannot be unseen. Ewww....

    Indeed, video exists of 1 Tory MP having 3 males urinating on him apparently, the mind boggles
    I once had some old boy pee right down my leg at a urinal at Lords....these things sometimes can be quite accidental
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,471
    tyson said:

    HYUFD said:

    That list. Some things cannot be unseen. Ewww....

    Indeed, video exists of 1 Tory MP having 3 males urinating on him apparently, the mind boggles
    I once had some old boy pee right down my leg at a urinal at Lords....these things sometimes can be quite accidental
    Why accident, did you intend to be at the Oval?
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited October 2017
    tyson said:

    HYUFD said:

    That list. Some things cannot be unseen. Ewww....

    Indeed, video exists of 1 Tory MP having 3 males urinating on him apparently, the mind boggles
    I once had some old boy pee right down my leg at a urinal at Lords....these things sometimes can be quite accidental
    Having done a urology job, I have seen plenty of willies and oceans of pee. The fun of watersorts passes me by though.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,974
    tyson said:

    HYUFD said:

    That list. Some things cannot be unseen. Ewww....

    Indeed, video exists of 1 Tory MP having 3 males urinating on him apparently, the mind boggles
    I once had some old boy pee right down my leg at a urinal at Lords....these things sometimes can be quite accidental
    I presume you weren't in the nude though while he was doing it? Though whatever floats your boat!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,576
    HYUFD said:

    tyson said:

    HYUFD said:

    That list. Some things cannot be unseen. Ewww....

    Indeed, video exists of 1 Tory MP having 3 males urinating on him apparently, the mind boggles
    I once had some old boy pee right down my leg at a urinal at Lords....these things sometimes can be quite accidental
    I presume you weren't in the nude though while he was doing it? Though whatever floats your boat!
    I've heard they have many unusual traditions at the Home of Cricket, in fairness.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,974
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    tyson said:

    HYUFD said:

    That list. Some things cannot be unseen. Ewww....

    Indeed, video exists of 1 Tory MP having 3 males urinating on him apparently, the mind boggles
    I once had some old boy pee right down my leg at a urinal at Lords....these things sometimes can be quite accidental
    I presume you weren't in the nude though while he was doing it? Though whatever floats your boat!
    I've heard they have many unusual traditions at the Home of Cricket, in fairness.
    Who knows what really goes on in the exclusive MCC section
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    Has there ever been a Parliament or Cabinet which hasn't had stories/incidents of sex, powerful men, willing and unwilling partners?
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,111

    tyson said:

    HYUFD said:

    That list. Some things cannot be unseen. Ewww....

    Indeed, video exists of 1 Tory MP having 3 males urinating on him apparently, the mind boggles
    I once had some old boy pee right down my leg at a urinal at Lords....these things sometimes can be quite accidental
    Having done a urology job, I have seen plenty of willies and oceans of pee. The fun of watersorts passes me by though.

    I have to say as well anything to do with a human being's back passage and sex is pretty damn revolting with a capital R and plenty of olting...eogh....I personally think waterports is most possibly a step up in relation to erotism...that is not really saying much mind...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,974
    I really don't see what it has to do with Mrs May that Damian Green cannot keep his hands to himself?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,732
    Where does this lie on the scale of sexual harassment? It seems pretty low-level to me... the creepy text message regarding corsets was probably the worst, although perhaps they remained on reasonably good terms given her congratulatory text message for his new appointment?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,732
    HYUFD said:

    witter.com/TSEofPB/status/925494114489073664

    I really don't see what it has to do with Mrs May that Damian Green cannot keep his hands to himself?
    Just as long as there isn't a 'back to basics' drive.... :o
  • HYUFD said:

    I really don't see what it has to do with Mrs May that Damian Green cannot keep his hands to himself?
    It doesn't, but he's one of her staunchest supporters, if he's forced to resign in disgrace, then it weakens her already parlous position.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,974
    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    witter.com/TSEofPB/status/925494114489073664

    I really don't see what it has to do with Mrs May that Damian Green cannot keep his hands to himself?
    Just as long as there isn't a 'back to basics' drive.... :o
    I don't think there has been, she may be the daughter of a vicar but she has sent messages to gay pride, supported transgender rights etc
  • RobD said:

    Where does this lie on the scale of sexual harassment? It seems pretty low-level to me... the creepy text message regarding corsets was probably the worst, although perhaps they remained on reasonably good terms given her congratulatory text message for his new appointment?
    Like the Fallon stuff, it is small beer. Creepy, yes, but not comparable to abuse of power allegations that are currently redacted or trying to hush up serious sexual assaults.
  • RobD said:

    Where does this lie on the scale of sexual harassment? It seems pretty low-level to me... the creepy text message regarding corsets was probably the worst, although perhaps they remained on reasonably good terms given her congratulatory text message for his new appointment?
    I'd call it low level, but unlike Julia Hartley-Brewer, Kate Maltby isn't happy.

    Kate Maltby: Damian Green, you probably have no idea how awkward I felt

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/kate-maltby-damian-green-you-probably-have-no-idea-how-awkward-i-felt-j2kk88frj
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,974
    edited October 2017

    HYUFD said:

    I really don't see what it has to do with Mrs May that Damian Green cannot keep his hands to himself?
    It doesn't, but he's one of her staunchest supporters, if he's forced to resign in disgrace, then it weakens her already parlous position.
    She is still going before the next general election anyway, she is just still there to see us through Brexit.

    Robert Halfon who is a big May critic is also named by the Mail tonight as being on the list so it hits both her allies and her foes.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,068
    That doesn't seem very serious, although one naturally laughs at a 61 year old man who thinks he's a sex god pursuing a 31 year old woman.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,974
    Sean_F said:

    That doesn't seem very serious, although one naturally laughs at a 61 year old man who thinks he's a sex god pursuing a 31 year old woman.
    If there are two things I never thought I would read in the same sentence it is 'Damian Green' and 'sex god'.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,111

    RobD said:

    Where does this lie on the scale of sexual harassment? It seems pretty low-level to me... the creepy text message regarding corsets was probably the worst, although perhaps they remained on reasonably good terms given her congratulatory text message for his new appointment?
    Like the Fallon stuff, it is small beer. Creepy, yes, but not comparable to abuse of power allegations that are currently redacted or trying to hush up serious sexual assaults.
    I also think politics attracts quite a lot of socially inadequate men, particularly the Tories, who have been terribly socialised at public schools and are completely incapable at relating to a woman in any other form other than as a sexual object. I think many off them too, particularly the Tories again, look to be the marry the first girl they fuck kind of saddos.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,732

    RobD said:

    Where does this lie on the scale of sexual harassment? It seems pretty low-level to me... the creepy text message regarding corsets was probably the worst, although perhaps they remained on reasonably good terms given her congratulatory text message for his new appointment?
    I'd call it low level, but unlike Julia Hartley-Brewer, Kate Maltby isn't happy.

    Kate Maltby: Damian Green, you probably have no idea how awkward I felt

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/kate-maltby-damian-green-you-probably-have-no-idea-how-awkward-i-felt-j2kk88frj
    I don't see the harm in older men asking younger women out on a date, providing they respect them when/if they say no. The big problem is that the younger journalist may feel obliged to say yes because otherwise the minister (or whoever) may deny access for stories etc., harming her career.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,732
    tyson said:

    RobD said:

    Where does this lie on the scale of sexual harassment? It seems pretty low-level to me... the creepy text message regarding corsets was probably the worst, although perhaps they remained on reasonably good terms given her congratulatory text message for his new appointment?
    Like the Fallon stuff, it is small beer. Creepy, yes, but not comparable to abuse of power allegations that are currently redacted or trying to hush up serious sexual assaults.
    I also think politics attracts quite a lot of socially inadequate men, particularly the Tories, who have been terribly socialised at public schools and are completely incapable at relating to a woman in any other form other than as a sexual object. I think many off them too, particularly the Tories again, look to be the marry the first girl they fuck kind of saddos.
    Charming, as ever. :o
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,068

    tyson said:

    HYUFD said:

    That list. Some things cannot be unseen. Ewww....

    Indeed, video exists of 1 Tory MP having 3 males urinating on him apparently, the mind boggles
    I once had some old boy pee right down my leg at a urinal at Lords....these things sometimes can be quite accidental
    Having done a urology job, I have seen plenty of willies and oceans of pee. The fun of watersorts passes me by though.
    Fortunately, none of the MP's named favours hardsports.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,576
    tyson said:

    RobD said:

    Where does this lie on the scale of sexual harassment? It seems pretty low-level to me... the creepy text message regarding corsets was probably the worst, although perhaps they remained on reasonably good terms given her congratulatory text message for his new appointment?
    Like the Fallon stuff, it is small beer. Creepy, yes, but not comparable to abuse of power allegations that are currently redacted or trying to hush up serious sexual assaults.
    I also think politics attracts quite a lot of socially inadequate men, particularly the Tories, who have been terribly socialised at public schools and are completely incapable at relating to a woman in any other form other than as a sexual object. I think many off them too, particularly the Tories again, look to be the marry the first girl they fuck kind of saddos.
    That strikes me as a really simplistic suggestion with a completely misdirected focus with very little basis. For starters, if someone marries the first girl they fuck who cares, and second, is there a basis besides that innuendo that public school educated people are more likely to be inclined to mistreat women? Thirdly, why would politics attract socially inadequate men? Some clearly make it through, but I'd have thought a lot of people have to be quite good socially to make the kind of connections they need, persuade parties and voters to back them and so on.

    I went to a state school, since it apparently matters.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,111
    RobD said:

    tyson said:

    RobD said:

    Where does this lie on the scale of sexual harassment? It seems pretty low-level to me... the creepy text message regarding corsets was probably the worst, although perhaps they remained on reasonably good terms given her congratulatory text message for his new appointment?
    Like the Fallon stuff, it is small beer. Creepy, yes, but not comparable to abuse of power allegations that are currently redacted or trying to hush up serious sexual assaults.
    I also think politics attracts quite a lot of socially inadequate men, particularly the Tories, who have been terribly socialised at public schools and are completely incapable at relating to a woman in any other form other than as a sexual object. I think many off them too, particularly the Tories again, look to be the marry the first girl they fuck kind of saddos.
    Charming, as ever. :o
    Give me the names of some normal kind of blokes in the Tory party whom you would like to spend an evening with. That is the reason why BJ is so popular with the grassoots...ultimately he is quite charming which is really exceptional for a Tory male politician who usually range from being creepy, weird, aspergery, odd looking, boring, sexless or usually a combination of all the above....
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,471
    Politics is life, for ugly people.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,732
    edited October 2017
    tyson said:

    RobD said:

    tyson said:

    RobD said:

    Where does this lie on the scale of sexual harassment? It seems pretty low-level to me... the creepy text message regarding corsets was probably the worst, although perhaps they remained on reasonably good terms given her congratulatory text message for his new appointment?
    Like the Fallon stuff, it is small beer. Creepy, yes, but not comparable to abuse of power allegations that are currently redacted or trying to hush up serious sexual assaults.
    I also think politics attracts quite a lot of socially inadequate men, particularly the Tories, who have been terribly socialised at public schools and are completely incapable at relating to a woman in any other form other than as a sexual object. I think many off them too, particularly the Tories again, look to be the marry the first girl they fuck kind of saddos.
    Charming, as ever. :o
    Give me the names of some normal kind of blokes in the Tory party whom you would like to spend an evening with. That is the reason why BJ is so popular with the grassoots...ultimately he is quite charming which is really exceptional for a Tory male politician who usually range from being creepy, weird, aspergery, odd looking, boring, sexless or usually a combination of all the above....
    I spend evenings with the good folks of PB. I'm prepared for anything. :smiley:
  • So, to be clear, a woman journalist in her late twenties posing in a corset for a photo published in the Times is beyond reproach, but a friend making a light-hearted reference to seeing the photo is not?

    OK... I think I'm getting the hang of this new prudery malarkey.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @faisalislam: Labour will use Opposition Day to put what it says is a binding vote forcing DEXEU to release 58 Brexit impact studies to Commons Committee

    @faisalislam: ..Starmer will use ancient procedure called a “Motion for Unopposed Returns” via a “humble address to Her Majesty” to get the impact studies
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,576
    tyson said:

    RobD said:

    tyson said:

    RobD said:

    Where does this lie on the scale of sexual harassment? It seems pretty low-level to me... the creepy text message regarding corsets was probably the worst, although perhaps they remained on reasonably good terms given her congratulatory text message for his new appointment?
    Like the Fallon stuff, it is small beer. Creepy, yes, but not comparable to abuse of power allegations that are currently redacted or trying to hush up serious sexual assaults.
    I also think politics attracts quite a lot of socially inadequate men, particularly the Tories, who have been terribly socialised at public schools and are completely incapable at relating to a woman in any other form other than as a sexual object. I think many off them too, particularly the Tories again, look to be the marry the first girl they fuck kind of saddos.
    Charming, as ever. :o
    Give me the names of some normal kind of blokes in the Tory party whom you would like to spend an evening with. That is the reason why BJ is so popular with the grassoots...ultimately he is quite charming which is really exceptional for a Tory male politician who usually range from being creepy, weird, aspergery, odd looking, boring, sexless or usually a combination of all the above....
    We don't know most of them on a personal basis by which to make any kind of comparison, do you? I've been told by someone that Peter Mandelson, to pick a random example, is extremely clever and very charming, and by another person that Boris Johnson is an oaf, but I don't know if either of those things is true, and it's rare with most MPs that we'd have as much an indication as we would with those two, who are quite famous.

    I suspect the truth is more likely that most MPs are pretty ordinary, or boring as you list it, which is hardly a character flaw.
  • So, to be clear, a woman journalist in her late twenties posing in a corset for a photo published in the Times is beyond reproach, but a friend making a light-hearted reference to seeing the photo is not?

    OK... I think I'm getting the hang of this new prudery malarkey.

    We're all Puritans now Richard.

    The Department for the Moral Hygiene of the country will be set up shortly.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,732
    edited October 2017
    Scott_P said:

    @faisalislam: Labour will use Opposition Day to put what it says is a binding vote forcing DEXEU to release 58 Brexit impact studies to Commons Committee

    @faisalislam: ..Starmer will use ancient procedure called a “Motion for Unopposed Returns” via a “humble address to Her Majesty” to get the impact studies

    Where's @kle4 and his copy of Erskine May?

    and "what it says is a binding vote" = "not actually a binding vote"?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,974
    edited October 2017
    tyson said:

    RobD said:

    tyson said:

    RobD said:

    Where does this lie on the scale of sexual harassment? It seems pretty low-level to me... the creepy text message regarding corsets was probably the worst, although perhaps they remained on reasonably good terms given her congratulatory text message for his new appointment?
    Like the Fallon stuff, it is small beer. Creepy, yes, but not comparable to abuse of power allegations that are currently redacted or trying to hush up serious sexual assaults.
    I also think politics attracts quite a lot of socially inadequate men, particularly the Tories, who have been terribly socialised at public schools and are completely incapable at relating to a woman in any other form other than as a sexual object. I think many off them too, particularly the Tories again, look to be the marry the first girl they fuck kind of saddos.
    Charming, as ever. :o
    Give me the names of some normal kind of blokes in the Tory party whom you would like to spend an evening with. That is the reason why BJ is so popular with the grassoots...ultimately he is quite charming which is really exceptional for a Tory male politician who usually range from being creepy, weird, aspergery, odd looking, boring, sexless or usually a combination of all the above....
    Much the same could be said about many on the Labour side who have matched that description, Ed Miliband, Ed Balls, Robin Cook, Tom Watson etc.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,111
    kle4 said:

    tyson said:

    RobD said:

    Where does this lie on the scale of sexual harassment? It seems pretty low-level to me... the creepy text message regarding corsets was probably the worst, although perhaps they remained on reasonably good terms given her congratulatory text message for his new appointment?
    Like the Fallon stuff, it is small beer. Creepy, yes, but not comparable to abuse of power allegations that are currently redacted or trying to hush up serious sexual assaults.
    I also think politics attracts quite a lot of socially inadequate men, particularly the Tories, who have been terribly socialised at public schools and are completely incapable at relating to a woman in any other form other than as a sexual object. I think many off them too, particularly the Tories again, look to be the marry the first girl they fuck kind of saddos.
    That strikes me as a really simplistic suggestion with a completely misdirected focus with very little basis. For starters, if someone marries the first girl they fuck who cares, and second, is there a basis besides that innuendo that public school educated people are more likely to be inclined to mistreat women? Thirdly, why would politics attract socially inadequate men? Some clearly make it through, but I'd have thought a lot of people have to be quite good socially to make the kind of connections they need, persuade parties and voters to back them and so on.

    I went to a state school, since it apparently matters.

    Politics attracts odd people...full stop. It's the name of the game.

    On public schools...no I am not saying they are more likely to mistreat women, what I am saying is that they are more likely to view women as sexual objects. And being segregated by gender, you get more desperate, and more likely to fall madly in love with your first shag....
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,732
    From Hansard:

    (ii) "Unopposed Returns"—Governments may also lay papers by an older procedure: by moving a motion in the House for the "unopposed return" of the document they wish to lay before the House and be printed on its authority. The large number of papers now required to be laid by statute, combined with the more frequent use of "Command Papers" might have been expected to make this procedure obsolete. It has survived very largely[86] because of uncertainty over the extent to which Command Papers have absolute privilege. The procedure of an "unopposed" return was introduced originally to avoid the inconvenience of the House of having formally to consider motions by ministers for returns of largely uncontroversial information from their own Departments. It is now used by ministers almost exclusively in order to ensure that a report of a ministerial inquiry will not be subject to actions for defamation. Use of the procedure is infrequent. It is not popular with Departments since it involves three stages: a motion for the return in the name of the minister must be tabled (like any other motion) on a sitting day, moved (like any other motion) on a sitting day, and the return made (by publication of the report) on a sitting day. Most typically the report is of such moment that it is published on the day on which the motion is moved (though this is not essential) and the Minister will make a statement upon it to the House at 3.30 pm. Although other Members cannot oppose the motion, the procedure ensures that Members receive clear notice of presentation. A list of recent unopposed returns is set out in Annex B.

    https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/jt199899/jtselect/jtpriv/43/43ap53.htm#note86

  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,068
    tyson said:

    kle4 said:

    tyson said:

    RobD said:

    Where does this lie on the scale of sexual harassment? It seems pretty low-level to me... the creepy text message regarding corsets was probably the worst, although perhaps they remained on reasonably good terms given her congratulatory text message for his new appointment?
    Like the Fallon stuff, it is small beer. Creepy, yes, but not comparable to abuse of power allegations that are currently redacted or trying to hush up serious sexual assaults.
    I also think politics attracts quite a lot of socially inadequate men, particularly the Tories, who have been terribly socialised at public schools and are completely incapable at relating to a woman in any other form other than as a sexual object. I think many off them too, particularly the Tories again, look to be the marry the first girl they fuck kind of saddos.
    That strikes me as a really simplistic suggestion with a completely misdirected focus with very little basis. For starters, if someone marries the first girl they fuck who cares, and second, is there a basis besides that innuendo that public school educated people are more likely to be inclined to mistreat women? Thirdly, why would politics attract socially inadequate men? Some clearly make it through, but I'd have thought a lot of people have to be quite good socially to make the kind of connections they need, persuade parties and voters to back them and so on.

    I went to a state school, since it apparently matters.

    Politics attracts odd people...full stop. It's the name of the game.

    On public schools...no I am not saying they are more likely to mistreat women, what I am saying is that they are more likely to view women as sexual objects. And being segregated by gender, you get more desperate, and more likely to fall madly in love with your first shag....
    More likely to view boys as sexual objects. I don't think women feature.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,842
    HYUFD said:

    tyson said:

    RobD said:

    tyson said:

    RobD said:

    Where does this lie on the scale of sexual harassment? It seems pretty low-level to me... the creepy text message regarding corsets was probably the worst, although perhaps they remained on reasonably good terms given her congratulatory text message for his new appointment?
    Like the Fallon stuff, it is small beer. Creepy, yes, but not comparable to abuse of power allegations that are currently redacted or trying to hush up serious sexual assaults.
    I also think politics attracts quite a lot of socially inadequate men, particularly the Tories, who have been terribly socialised at public schools and are completely incapable at relating to a woman in any other form other than as a sexual object. I think many off them too, particularly the Tories again, look to be the marry the first girl they fuck kind of saddos.
    Charming, as ever. :o
    Give me the names of some normal kind of blokes in the Tory party whom you would like to spend an evening with. That is the reason why BJ is so popular with the grassoots...ultimately he is quite charming which is really exceptional for a Tory male politician who usually range from being creepy, weird, aspergery, odd looking, boring, sexless or usually a combination of all the above....
    Much the same could be said about many on the Labour side who have matched that description, Ed Miliband, Ed Balls, Robin Cook, Tom Watson etc.
    Indeed - unattractiveness is rife in all parliamentary parties. And to be honest, I don't care what a politician looks like - I do care about how they think and how they can stand up for what they believe.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,111
    HYUFD said:

    tyson said:

    RobD said:

    tyson said:

    RobD said:

    Where does this lie on the scale of sexual harassment? It seems pretty low-level to me... the creepy text message regarding corsets was probably the worst, although perhaps they remained on reasonably good terms given her congratulatory text message for his new appointment?
    Like the Fallon stuff, it is small beer. Creepy, yes, but not comparable to abuse of power allegations that are currently redacted or trying to hush up serious sexual assaults.
    I also think politics attracts quite a lot of socially inadequate men, particularly the Tories, who have been terribly socialised at public schools and are completely incapable at relating to a woman in any other form other than as a sexual object. I think many off them too, particularly the Tories again, look to be the marry the first girl they fuck kind of saddos.
    Charming, as ever. :o
    Give me the names of some normal kind of blokes in the Tory party whom you would like to spend an evening with. That is the reason why BJ is so popular with the grassoots...ultimately he is quite charming which is really exceptional for a Tory male politician who usually range from being creepy, weird, aspergery, odd looking, boring, sexless or usually a combination of all the above....
    Much the same could be said about many on the Labour side who have matched that description, Ed Miliband, Ed Balls, Robin Cook, Tom Watson etc.
    I don't know who made up that quote...but politics is the way to fame for ugly people....
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,974
    tyson said:

    kle4 said:

    tyson said:

    RobD said:

    Where does this lie on the scale of sexual harassment? It seems pretty low-level to me... the creepy text message regarding corsets was probably the worst, although perhaps they remained on reasonably good terms given her congratulatory text message for his new appointment?
    Like the Fallon stuff, it is small beer. Creepy, yes, but not comparable to abuse of power allegations that are currently redacted or trying to hush up serious sexual assaults.
    I also think politics attracts quite a lot of socially inadequate men, particularly the Tories, who have been terribly socialised at public schools and are completely incapable at relating to a woman in any other form other than as a sexual object. I think many off them too, particularly the Tories again, look to be the marry the first girl they fuck kind of saddos.
    That strikes me as a really simplistic suggestion with a completely misdirected focus with very little basis. For starters, if someone marries the first girl they fuck who cares, and second, is there a basis besides that innuendo that public school educated people are more likely to be inclined to mistreat women? Thirdly, why would politics attract socially inadequate men? Some clearly make it through, but I'd have thought a lot of people have to be quite good socially to make the kind of connections they need, persuade parties and voters to back them and so on.

    I went to a state school, since it apparently matters.

    Politics attracts odd people...full stop. It's the name of the game.

    On public schools...no I am not saying they are more likely to mistreat women, what I am saying is that they are more likely to view women as sexual objects. And being segregated by gender, you get more desperate, and more likely to fall madly in love with your first shag....
    A number of public schools are now coed anyway, Marlborough, Sevenoaks, Westminster etc.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,842
    RobD said:

    From Hansard:

    (ii) "Unopposed Returns"—Governments may also lay papers by an older procedure: by moving a motion in the House for the "unopposed return" of the document they wish to lay before the House and be printed on its authority. The large number of papers now required to be laid by statute, combined with the more frequent use of "Command Papers" might have been expected to make this procedure obsolete. It has survived very largely[86] because of uncertainty over the extent to which Command Papers have absolute privilege. The procedure of an "unopposed" return was introduced originally to avoid the inconvenience of the House of having formally to consider motions by ministers for returns of largely uncontroversial information from their own Departments. It is now used by ministers almost exclusively in order to ensure that a report of a ministerial inquiry will not be subject to actions for defamation. Use of the procedure is infrequent. It is not popular with Departments since it involves three stages: a motion for the return in the name of the minister must be tabled (like any other motion) on a sitting day, moved (like any other motion) on a sitting day, and the return made (by publication of the report) on a sitting day. Most typically the report is of such moment that it is published on the day on which the motion is moved (though this is not essential) and the Minister will make a statement upon it to the House at 3.30 pm. Although other Members cannot oppose the motion, the procedure ensures that Members receive clear notice of presentation. A list of recent unopposed returns is set out in Annex B.

    https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/jt199899/jtselect/jtpriv/43/43ap53.htm#note86

    That reads to me as if it is a procedure for the use of governments - not the opposition.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,068
    The revelation that eminent women can't keep their hands off him is surely flattering.
  • Sean_F said:

    The revelation that eminent women can't keep their hands off him is surely flattering.
    All women love us former public schoolboys.

    Especially those of us who attended all boys schools.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,732

    RobD said:

    From Hansard:

    (ii) "Unopposed Returns"—Governments may also lay papers by an older procedure: by moving a motion in the House for the "unopposed return" of the document they wish to lay before the House and be printed on its authority. The large number of papers now required to be laid by statute, combined with the more frequent use of "Command Papers" might have been expected to make this procedure obsolete. It has survived very largely[86] because of uncertainty over the extent to which Command Papers have absolute privilege. The procedure of an "unopposed" return was introduced originally to avoid the inconvenience of the House of having formally to consider motions by ministers for returns of largely uncontroversial information from their own Departments. It is now used by ministers almost exclusively in order to ensure that a report of a ministerial inquiry will not be subject to actions for defamation. Use of the procedure is infrequent. It is not popular with Departments since it involves three stages: a motion for the return in the name of the minister must be tabled (like any other motion) on a sitting day, moved (like any other motion) on a sitting day, and the return made (by publication of the report) on a sitting day. Most typically the report is of such moment that it is published on the day on which the motion is moved (though this is not essential) and the Minister will make a statement upon it to the House at 3.30 pm. Although other Members cannot oppose the motion, the procedure ensures that Members receive clear notice of presentation. A list of recent unopposed returns is set out in Annex B.

    https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/jt199899/jtselect/jtpriv/43/43ap53.htm#note86

    That reads to me as if it is a procedure for the use of governments - not the opposition.
    Possible that a motion for an unopposed return is different. Still, hard to imagine there being a procedure to force the government to release papers that is hardly ever used....
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,576
    edited October 2017
    Scott_P said:

    @faisalislam: Labour will use Opposition Day to put what it says is a binding vote forcing DEXEU to release 58 Brexit impact studies to Commons Committee

    @faisalislam: ..Starmer will use ancient procedure called a “Motion for Unopposed Returns” via a “humble address to Her Majesty” to get the impact studies

    Erskine May p133 on returns (call for production of papers)

    Each House has the power to callfor the production of papers by means of a motion for a return. A return from the privy council or from departments headed by a secretary of state is called for by means of an humble address to the sovereign...
    It is rarely resorted to in modern circumstances since much of the information previously sought in this way is now produced incommand papers or in act papers or in response to questions. However the power has a continuing importance since it is regularly delegated to select committees, thus enabling them to send for papers an records.

    In the commons the procedure also survives in the form of 'motions for unopposed returns' for particular documents which the minister responsible for the government department concerned wishes to make public (hence they are 'unopposed') but in respectof which the protection of statute afforded by an order of the House for printing or other publication is sought...
    The power to send for papers by means of a motion for unopposed return extends to papers which are in the possession of Ministers or which Ministers have the authority to obtain. Papers should be ordered only on subjects which are of public or official character.


    p352

    Immediately after private business is the usual time for moving motions for returns of which notice stands upon the notice paper for the day, and which the minister responsible for the government department concerned has signified his readiness to render. Such motions are made by Ministers, and may be made either at this time or at an other convenient opportunity.

    Because it is a settled principle that a motion for a return which is proposed by the Minister responsible for the department concerned ought not to be opposed by any other member, such opposition has been overruled by the Speaker.


    In bold what Labour are relying on?
  • So, to be clear, a woman journalist in her late twenties posing in a corset for a photo published in the Times is beyond reproach, but a friend making a light-hearted reference to seeing the photo is not?

    OK... I think I'm getting the hang of this new prudery malarkey.

    We're all Puritans now Richard.

    The Department for the Moral Hygiene of the country will be set up shortly.
    Yep.

    It occurred to me this evening that there's a wonderful example of the hypocrisy: Michael Gove making a rather funny joke comparing being interviewed on Today with a visit to Harvey Weinstein's hotel room is beyond the pale - trivialising rape etc etc - but Harriet Harman quipping about rumours of a leadership bid that "when a woman says no, she means no" was OK.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,111

    HYUFD said:

    tyson said:

    RobD said:

    tyson said:

    RobD said:

    Where does this lie on the scale of sexual harassment? It seems pretty low-level to me... the creepy text message regarding corsets was probably the worst, although perhaps they remained on reasonably good terms given her congratulatory text message for his new appointment?
    Like the Fallon stuff, it is small beer. Creepy, yes, but not comparable to abuse of power allegations that are currently redacted or trying to hush up serious sexual assaults.
    I also think politics attracts quite a lot of socially inadequate men, particularly the Tories, who have been terribly socialised at public schools and are completely incapable at relating to a woman in any other form other than as a sexual object. I think many off them too, particularly the Tories again, look to be the marry the first girl they fuck kind of saddos.
    Charming, as ever. :o
    Give me the names of some normal kind of blokes in the Tory party whom you would like to spend an evening with. That is the reason why BJ is so popular with the grassoots...ultimately he is quite charming which is really exceptional for a Tory male politician who usually range from being creepy, weird, aspergery, odd looking, boring, sexless or usually a combination of all the above....
    Much the same could be said about many on the Labour side who have matched that description, Ed Miliband, Ed Balls, Robin Cook, Tom Watson etc.
    Indeed - unattractiveness is rife in all parliamentary parties. And to be honest, I don't care what a politician looks like - I do care about how they think and how they can stand up for what they believe.

    But most people choose their partner based on how they look.......and that is a pretty big decision.





  • tyson said:

    kle4 said:

    tyson said:

    RobD said:

    Where does this lie on the scale of sexual harassment? It seems pretty low-level to me... the creepy text message regarding corsets was probably the worst, although perhaps they remained on reasonably good terms given her congratulatory text message for his new appointment?
    Like the Fallon stuff, it is small beer. Creepy, yes, but not comparable to abuse of power allegations that are currently redacted or trying to hush up serious sexual assaults.
    I also think politics attracts quite a lot of socially inadequate men, particularly the Tories, who have been terribly socialised at public schools and are completely incapable at relating to a woman in any other form other than as a sexual object. I think many off them too, particularly the Tories again, look to be the marry the first girl they fuck kind of saddos.
    That strikes me as a really simplistic suggestion with a completely misdirected focus with very little basis. For starters, if someone marries the first girl they fuck who cares, and second, is there a basis besides that innuendo that public school educated people are more likely to be inclined to mistreat women? Thirdly, why would politics attract socially inadequate men? Some clearly make it through, but I'd have thought a lot of people have to be quite good socially to make the kind of connections they need, persuade parties and voters to back them and so on.

    I went to a state school, since it apparently matters.

    Politics attracts odd people...full stop. .
    Yes, you are very odd, aren't you? :lol:
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,842

    So, to be clear, a woman journalist in her late twenties posing in a corset for a photo published in the Times is beyond reproach, but a friend making a light-hearted reference to seeing the photo is not?

    OK... I think I'm getting the hang of this new prudery malarkey.

    We're all Puritans now Richard.

    The Department for the Moral Hygiene of the country will be set up shortly.
    Yep.

    It occurred to me this evening that there's a wonderful example of the hypocrisy: Michael Gove making a rather funny joke comparing being interviewed on Today with a visit to Harvey Weinstein's hotel room is beyond the pale - trivialising rape etc etc - but Harriet Harman quipping about rumours of a leadership bid that "when a woman says no, she means no" was OK.
    Harriet is beyond reproach and Gove is evil - surely that was covered in the first lesson in your re-education process?
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,842
    tyson said:

    HYUFD said:

    tyson said:

    RobD said:

    tyson said:

    RobD said:

    Where does this lie on the scale of sexual harassment? It seems pretty low-level to me... the creepy text message regarding corsets was probably the worst, although perhaps they remained on reasonably good terms given her congratulatory text message for his new appointment?
    Like the Fallon stuff, it is small beer. Creepy, yes, but not comparable to abuse of power allegations that are currently redacted or trying to hush up serious sexual assaults.
    I also think politics attracts quite a lot of socially inadequate men, particularly the Tories, who have been terribly socialised at public schools and are completely incapable at relating to a woman in any other form other than as a sexual object. I think many off them too, particularly the Tories again, look to be the marry the first girl they fuck kind of saddos.
    Charming, as ever. :o
    Give me the names of some normal kind of blokes in the Tory party whom you would like to spend an evening with. That is the reason why BJ is so popular with the grassoots...ultimately he is quite charming which is really exceptional for a Tory male politician who usually range from being creepy, weird, aspergery, odd looking, boring, sexless or usually a combination of all the above....
    Much the same could be said about many on the Labour side who have matched that description, Ed Miliband, Ed Balls, Robin Cook, Tom Watson etc.
    Indeed - unattractiveness is rife in all parliamentary parties. And to be honest, I don't care what a politician looks like - I do care about how they think and how they can stand up for what they believe.

    But most people choose their partner based on how they look.......and that is a pretty big decision.





    I am not planning on dating a politician - and I certainly don't vote based on the looks of the various candidates.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,576
    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    @faisalislam: Labour will use Opposition Day to put what it says is a binding vote forcing DEXEU to release 58 Brexit impact studies to Commons Committee

    @faisalislam: ..Starmer will use ancient procedure called a “Motion for Unopposed Returns” via a “humble address to Her Majesty” to get the impact studies

    Erskine May p133 on returns (call for production of papers)

    Each House has the power to callfor the production of papers by means of a motion for a return. A return from the privy council or from departments headed by a secretary of state is called for by means of an humble address to the sovereign...
    It is rarely resorted to in modern circumstances since much of the information previously sought in this way is now produced incommand papers or in act papers or in response to questions. However the power has a continuing importance since it is regularly delegated to select committees, thus enabling them to send for papers an records.

    In the commons the procedure also survives in the form of 'motions for unopposed returns' for particular documents which the minister responsible for the government department concerned wishes to make public (hence they are 'unopposed') but in respectof which the protection of statute afforded by an order of the House for printing or other publication is sought...
    The power to send for papers by means of a motion for unopposed return extends to papers which are in the possession of Ministers or which Ministers have the authority to obtain. Papers should be ordered only on subjects which are of public or official character.


    p352

    Immediately after private business is the usual time for moving motions for returns of which notice stands upon the notice paper for the day, and which the minister responsible for the government department concerned has signified his readiness to render. Such motions are made by Ministers, and may be made either at this time or at an other convenient opportunity.

    Because it is a settled principle that a motion for a return which is proposed by the Minister responsible for the department concerned ought not to be opposed by any other member, such opposition has been overruled by the Speaker.


    In bold what Labour are relying on?
    Seems like the power is used almost exclusively by ministers now, but the opening line does say the House has the power, so perhaps others can do so?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,732
    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    @faisalislam: Labour will use Opposition Day to put what it says is a binding vote forcing DEXEU to release 58 Brexit impact studies to Commons Committee

    @faisalislam: ..Starmer will use ancient procedure called a “Motion for Unopposed Returns” via a “humble address to Her Majesty” to get the impact studies

    Erskine May p133 on returns (call for production of papers)

    Each House has the power to callfor the production of papers by means of a motion for a return. A return from the privy council or from departments headed by a secretary of state is called for by means of an humble address to the sovereign...
    It is rarely resorted to in modern circumstances since much of the information previously sought in this way is now produced incommand papers or in act papers or in response to questions. However the power has a continuing importance since it is regularly delegated to select committees, thus enabling them to send for papers an records.

    In the commons the procedure also survives in the form of 'motions for unopposed returns' for particular documents which the minister responsible for the government department concerned wishes to make public (hence they are 'unopposed') but in respectof which the protection of statute afforded by an order of the House for printing or other publication is sought...
    The power to send for papers by means of a motion for unopposed return extends to papers which are in the possession of Ministers or which Ministers have the authority to obtain. Papers should be ordered only on subjects which are of public or official character.


    p352

    Immediately after private business is the usual time for moving motions for returns of which notice stands upon the notice paper for the day, and which the minister responsible for the government department concerned has signified his readiness to render. Such motions are made by Ministers, and may be made either at this time or at an other convenient opportunity.

    Because it is a settled principle that a motion for a return which is proposed by the Minister responsible for the department concerned ought not to be opposed by any other member, such opposition has been overruled by the Speaker.


    In bold what Labour are relying on?
    But the text also states that unopposed returns are only proposed by a minister?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,974
    tyson said:

    HYUFD said:

    tyson said:

    RobD said:

    tyson said:

    RobD said:

    Where does this lie on the scale of sexual harassment? It seems pretty low-level to me... the creepy text message regarding corsets was probably the worst, although perhaps they remained on reasonably good terms given her congratulatory text message for his new appointment?
    Like the Fallon stuff, it is small beer. Creepy, yes, but not comparable to abuse of power allegations that are currently redacted or trying to hush up serious sexual assaults.
    I also think politics attracts quite a lot of socially inadequate men, particularly the Tories, who have been terribly socialised at public schools and are completely incapable at relating to a woman in any other form other than as a sexual object. I think many off them too, particularly the Tories again, look to be the marry the first girl they fuck kind of saddos.
    Charming, as ever. :o
    Give me the names of some normal kind of blokes in the Tory party whom you would like to spend an evening with. That is the reason why BJ is so popular with the grassoots...ultimately he is quite charming which is really exceptional for a Tory male politician who usually range from being creepy, weird, aspergery, odd looking, boring, sexless or usually a combination of all the above....
    Much the same could be said about many on the Labour side who have matched that description, Ed Miliband, Ed Balls, Robin Cook, Tom Watson etc.
    I don't know who made up that quote...but politics is the way to fame for ugly people....
    If you want to be famous and are not good looking enough or a good enough actor for Hollywood and you would not fit naturally into a rock or pop band and you are never likely to get trials for a Premiership football club then politics is your best bet to celebrity yes.

    (Though there are a few beautiful people in politics, Zac Goldsmith, Luciana Berger etc and Macron, Trudeau, Ardern and Kurz have all got elected recently helped in part by their youth and good looks).
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,576
    edited October 2017
    RobD said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    @faisalislam: Labour will use Opposition Day to put what it says is a binding vote forcing DEXEU to release 58 Brexit impact studies to Commons Committee

    @faisalislam: ..Starmer will use ancient procedure called a “Motion for Unopposed Returns” via a “humble address to Her Majesty” to get the impact studies

    Erskine May p133 on returns (call for production of papers)

    Each House has the power to callfor the production of papers by means of a motion for a return. A return from the privy council or from departments headed by a secretary of state is called for by means of an humble address to the sovereign...
    It is rarely resorted to in modern circumstances since much of the information previously sought in this way is now produced incommand papers or in act papers or in response to questions. However the power has a continuing importance since it is regularly delegated to select committees, thus enabling them to send for papers an records.

    In the commons the procedure also survives in the form of 'motions for unopposed returns' for particular documents which the minister responsible for the government department concerned wishes to make public (hence they are 'unopposed') but in respectof which the protecti

    p352

    Immediately after private business is the usual time for moving motions for returns of which notice stands upon the notice paper for the day, and which the minister responsible for the government department concerned has signified his readiness to render. Such motions are made by Ministers, and may be made either at this time or at an other convenient opportunity.

    Because it is a settled principle that a motion for a return which is proposed by the Minister responsible for the department concerned ought not to be opposed by any other member, such opposition has been overruled by the Speaker.


    In bold what Labour are relying on?
    But the text also states that unopposed returns are only proposed by a minister?
    So it would seem - cherry pick the bit in bold and it seems possible, but in the context (and I haven't included some bits that didn't seem relevant) it seems like a ministerial option, that the executive wants to release info but some part of the law requires approval of the house first.

    But I assume advice was sought from the Clerk to the House, and it may be the latest, unpublished edition has been updated or there is some other precedent that applies that for brevity is not included.
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