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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Why people voted the way they did on Brexit and the huge gulf

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  • Sandpit said:

    LOL. Their proof readers are as good as their candidate selection team.

    Surely everyone here who sends out important documents has someone (or two) who hasn’t seen it before read it before the big red button gets pressed??
    Sorry, I'm probably being incredibly dense here, but I've read that several times and can't see what's wrong with it. Help!
  • LEAVE 52%
    REMAIN 48%

    :innocent:
  • ydoethur said:

    By increasing borrowing sixfold?
    Nah, like John Redwood, he'll tell the OBR to come up with more optimistic forecasts
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,120

    Want to feel old? This is what Eminem looks like today.

    image
    I didn't realise his views had mellowed so much as he aged :wink:
  • Sorry, I'm probably being incredibly dense here, but I've read that several times and can't see what's wrong with it. Help!
    He wants to take money from the many (hard working families) and give to the few (the rich elite who pay little or no tax)
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    ydoethur said:

    By increasing borrowing sixfold?
    We shall have to wait for his first budget to find out :)

    Off out now, meeting Fox jr for a drink.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,120

    Nah, like John Redwood, he'll tell the OBR to come up with more optimistic forecasts
    Brexitmeansbrexit to win at 30-1? That's a more optimistic forecast. It might even happen!
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022

    Sorry, I'm probably being incredibly dense here, but I've read that several times and can't see what's wrong with it. Help!
    It says redistribute wealth
    “from the many, to the few.”

    Should read
    “from the few, to the many”
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited October 2017
    O/T

    West Ham were 2-0 down to Tottenham. Now 3-2 to West Ham with 20 mins to go.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,120

    We shall have to wait for his first budget to find out :)

    Off out now, meeting Fox jr for a drink.
    You're right, it might be tenfold. That wasn't a joke, sadly.

    Enjoy your drink.
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited October 2017

    Yes, we would also have been sucked deeper into an unsatisfactory relationship with the US, feeling increasingly like its medieval theme park. The 51stState-Sceptic movement would have expanded and flourished during the 1980s and 1990s reaching it's apogee with the election of Donald Trump. The ensuing referendum for throwing off the American yoke would have been won handsomely by the Euro-ites.
    I'm not sure the US would have been very interested in us in the 80's/90's.

    Particularly after '89. We'd have been increasingly falling behind in a globalising world, exporting our young to germany/france/US, with remittances supporting a moribund economy. There wasn't a viable alternative to EU integration.

    There isn't now.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,100
    ydoethur said:

    Sorry. That last hand - it almost killed me!

    (With apologies to Sunil!)
    Ha! Superb :-)
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,100
    Rhubarb said:

    That would suggest that support for (re-)entry may roughly follow Norway's pattern.
    Yes, I think so.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,075
    PAW said:

    Majority occupation of eu immigrants - out of work, claiming benefits. Majority occupation of in work eu immigrants - cleaning, 600,000.







    Source?

  • Was Norman Tebbit this much of a twat when he was in government?

    His wife was crippled by your heroes, SF-IRA.
  • The EU is only 'outside' if we leave it.
    No, it has always been 'outside' our democratic accountability. Only the fanatics like you who, by their own admission, hate the nation state, desperately cling to the myth that it is otherwise.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,100
    Pong said:

    Nah. Our relative economic drag vs developed europe would have guaranteed we joined eventually. Revenues from north sea oil in the 80's might have delayed the inevitable but by the 1990's the voters would had had enough. Europhilia would have been an integral part of the new labour revival.

    "Join the EU and we can fix the NHS" would have won a landslide from the mid 90's onwards.
    It's a classic correlation not causation thing here. Our membership from c.1973-c.1981 delivered very little "extra".

    The recovery in the UK's economy from the early 80s onwards was a function of the Thatcher reforms, and North Sea Oil, and without the (then) EEC we'd have remained in EFTA throughout, which would have done nicely.

    Given how we've failed to ever complete the market in services, and still have a large trade deficit with the EU, I take a lot of convincing that the EU has delivered the UK an economic miracle.
  • AndyJS said:

    O/T

    West Ham were 2-0 down to Tottenham. Now 3-2 to West Ham with 20 mins to go.

    I hope it is enough for Bilic to hang on as I think that in spite of the recent rough run he is a good manager.
  • He wants to take money from the many (hard working families) and give to the few (the rich elite who pay little or no tax)
    Yes, thanks!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,120
    Sandpit said:

    It says redistribute wealth
    “from the many, to the few.”

    Should read
    “from the few, to the many”
    It really shouldn't. It's much more truthful like it is.

    Of course, a good socialist doesn't admit they're going to steal our money, but I admire his honesty.

    And now, if he's elected and screws the workers a la Chavez or Brezhnev, we can't say we weren't warned.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,100
    Sean_F said:

    Again, a big difference in values. To you and me, it matters that those who make our laws are accountable to us. To many Remain voters, it doesn't. Indeed, it may be seen as a good thing that lawmakers are not accountable.
    It doesn't, because they think the laws are working quite well for them and their families, and see no value in pursuing any 'academic' debate on democracy or sovereignty.
  • ydoethur said:

    Brexitmeansbrexit to win at 30-1? That's a more optimistic forecast. It might even happen!
    I'm sure like everyone on here you love a bit of pedantry. Traditionally horse racing offered odds (outside exchanges) can only be 28/1 or 33/1.
  • ydoethur said:

    Sorry. That last hand - it almost killed me!

    (With apologies to Sunil!)
    Sorry, apologies for what? I must have missed something!
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,100

    Was Norman Tebbit this much of a twat when he was in government?

    Former Conservative Party chair Lord Tebbit claims air pollution is making people transgender.

    http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2017/10/24/former-conservative-party-chair-lord-tebbit-claims-air-pollution-is-making-people-transgender/

    You seem to enjoy throwing abuse at the right-wing of the Conservative Party in a way you don't with your erstwhile political opponents.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,075

    His wife was crippled by your heroes, SF-IRA.
    That's a pretty aggressive comment S_P. Are you sure you want to go there?
  • You seem to enjoy throwing abuse at the right-wing of the Conservative Party in a way you don't with your erstwhile political opponents.
    Have you missed my constant derision of Jared O'Mara the past few days?
  • I hope it is enough for Bilic to hang on as I think that in spite of the recent rough run he is a good manager.
    I am a little apprehensive of the Hammers' chances this season...
  • rcs1000 said:

    That's a pretty aggressive comment S_P. Are you sure you want to go there?
    TSE can take it :)
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022

    It doesn't, because they think the laws are working quite well for them and their families, and see no value in pursuing any 'academic' debate on democracy or sovereignty.
    The whole point of democracy is the right of the people to kick the buggers out. How can we get rid of J-C Drunker? Of course the starting point is a demos, a people, and most Brits just don’t see themselves as proud EUians.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,120

    I'm sure like everyone on here you love a bit of pedantry. Traditionally horse racing offered odds (outside exchanges) can only be 28/1 or 33/1.
    I bet on the Tote. Their odds are rounded to pennies!

    I've written quite an interesting article on the Tote which I must publish at some point. Basically they got hugely into debt, their first CEO was pissed all the time and as a result they went bust. So far from having more money for horse tracks as intended, they needed bailing out by the Treasury. All very farcical.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,120

    Sorry, apologies for what? I must have missed something!
    The quoting from a film, of course! I know that's what you like to do.
  • You seem to enjoy throwing abuse at the right-wing of the Conservative Party in a way you don't with your erstwhile political opponents.
    He is going for a sulk of Heathite proportions. It really is sad to see a once reasonable fellow reduced to bitter whining in this way.
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,464

    Want to feel old? This is what Eminem looks like today.

    image
    “I’m friends with the monster that’s under my bed” (?)
  • Have you missed my constant derision of Jared O'Mara the past few days?
    BREAKING: The World Health Organization has just appointed Jared O'Mara as their LGBT Goodwill Ambassador.
  • ydoethur said:

    The quoting from a film, of course! I know that's what you like to do.
    Um, fair enough, but it must be a film I've not seen yet!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,120
    Sandpit said:

    The whole point of democracy is the right of the people to kick the buggers out. How can we get rid of J-C Drunker? Of course the starting point is a demos, a people, and most Brits just don’t see themselves as proud EUians.
    You could give him a second bottle of spirits at a big international convention, then tell him Xi Jinping has a third hidden in the front of his trousers.

    That would probably do it, and it would be very funny to watch, although it might start WWIII in the process.

    And with that, I will love you and leave you. Good night to one and all.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,100

    In what way would that be helped by Brexit?
    They might object to the EU failing to police its external borders way to the south and how large numbers of asylum seekers are able to use free movement to pass to Calais without claiming asylum in any number of the safe countries that they pass along the way, putting the problem at the UK's doorstep.

    Thus, having lost confidence in the institution, with an increasingly aggressive problem at Calais, would prefer the UK to police its own borders entirely instead.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,120
    edited October 2017

    Um, fair enough, but it must be a film I've not seen yet!
    You've not seen Casino Royale??!!!!
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5H_oUd8PGZ8
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,100
    Sandpit said:

    The whole point of democracy is the right of the people to kick the buggers out. How can we get rid of J-C Drunker? Of course the starting point is a demos, a people, and most Brits just don’t see themselves as proud EUians.
    You can't. The "democracy" of his "election" is a charade.

    Given he campaigned on a platform of keeping the UK inside the EU, he should have done the honourable thing and resigned.
  • ydoethur said:

    You've not seen Casino Royale??!!!!
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5H_oUd8PGZ8
    I've only seen the David Niven/Woody Allen version...
  • ydoethur said:

    You've not seen Casino Royale??!!!!
    Still my favourite ever scene from a Bond film.

    I was in danger of being asked to leave the cinema because I couldn't stop laughing.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LE1evIbc3mw
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,592
    This poll confirms that for Remainers the referendum was about the economy and trade while for Leavers it was about British sovereignty and freedom from EU laws and immigration.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,100

    Have you missed my constant derision of Jared O'Mara the past few days?
    Yes, to be fair I've seen a few of those posts, yes, but I've noticed you're a bit more understanding and tolerant of the Labour/LD side these days.

    For what it's worth, I'd only hold Jared accountable for his most recent behaviour as a candidate/politician, not what he said on the web 15 years ago.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,131
    edited October 2017
    Sandpit said:

    The answer to that question is simply that the casino went along with the suggestion of a high roller to play with his ‘lucky’ type of cards.

    I’m going to speculate that casinos have changed both the design of their cards and their willingness to bend or change rules for high stakes games, as a result of these cases.
    Amazingly this years wsop, ceasers entertainment* ditched superior cards for what were described as the worst they have been for years. They marked / bent incredibly easily and there were huge complaints. So I wouldn't take anything for granted.

    * I can't remember how many casino properties they own, but a lot.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,120

    I've only seen the David Niven/Woody Allen version...
    Your loss.

    And with that it really is good night from me.
  • Yes, to be fair I've seen a few of those posts, yes, but I've noticed you're a bit more understanding and tolerant of the Labour/LD side these days.

    For what it's worth, I'd only hold Jared accountable for his most recent behaviour as a candidate/politician, not what he said on the web 15 years ago.
    Totally wrong, I'm getting really frustrated by my side, because everything we are doing is making Corbyn PM (and McDonnell as Chancellor) inevitable.

    That really scares me.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,370

    Yes, to be fair I've seen a few of those posts, yes, but I've noticed you're a bit more understanding and tolerant of the Labour/LD side these days.

    For what it's worth, I'd only hold Jared accountable for his most recent behaviour as a candidate/politician, not what he said on the web 15 years ago.
    It is always funny, though, to see people get caught out doing things that are completely at variance with their professed beliefs.
  • Totally wrong, I'm getting really frustrated by my side, because everything we are doing is making Corbyn PM (and McDonnell as Chancellor) inevitable.

    That really scares me.
    "I have been told of a certain sea snake which has a very unusual method of attracting its prey. It will lie at the bottom of the ocean as if wounded. Then its enemies will approach, and yet it will lie quite still. And then its enemies will take little bites of it, and yet it remains still."
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    edited October 2017
    In which Leavers studiously ignore the items about immigration and asylum seekers and studiously pretend to each other that theirs was a noble cause rather than a victory won through pandering to xenophobia, in the teeth of the evidence in the thread header.
  • I know this is going to provoke lots of fun comments from the usual chicken lickens but it seems the reports of Britain's demise as a global power are somewhat exaggerated.

    https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/new-study-ranks-britain-second-powerful-country-world/
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,592
    edited October 2017

    Totally wrong, I'm getting really frustrated by my side, because everything we are doing is making Corbyn PM (and McDonnell as Chancellor) inevitable.

    That really scares me.
    I would have thought Osborne's imposition of 6% interest on student fees and decision to freeze the threshold for repayment of student fees, his 1% public sector pay cap and his 6 week wait for UC etc would have had an impact too.
  • I Should have added that the crap cards were not only in circulation for low buyin mass participant events, but things like $50k buyin events.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022

    Amazingly this years wsop, ceasers entertainment* ditched superior cards for what were described as the worst they have been for years. They marked / bent incredibly easily and there were huge complaints. So I wouldn't take anything for granted.

    * I can't remember how many casino properties they own, but a lot.
    Whoops. We’ve got a huge televised international tournament coming to our casino, so let’s change our good cards out for shit ones that are easily marked. Idiots.

    I was going to say that cards must be a massive expense for casinos, but then I remembered that all the casinos will sell you a deck of cards they used last week for about $10.
  • Totally wrong, I'm getting really frustrated by my side, because everything we are doing is making Corbyn PM (and McDonnell as Chancellor) inevitable.

    That really scares me.
    Nothing is inevitable in today's politics
  • In which Leavers studiously ignore the items about immigration and asylum seekers and studiously pretend to each other that theirs was a noble cause rather than a victory won through pandering to xenophobia, in the teeth of the evidence in the thread header.

    In which Mr Meeks yet again ignores the fact that the biggest reason given for people voting Leave was 'Britain's ability to make its own laws'. Something he has regularly denied as being a significant reason on here in his desperate attempts to make this all about xenophobia. .
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,415
    edited October 2017

    In which Leavers studiously ignore the items about immigration and asylum seekers and studiously pretend to each other that theirs was a noble cause rather than a victory won through pandering to xenophobia, in the teeth of the evidence in the thread header.

    Admit it, Alastair. You're just racist against us Leavers!
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    In which Mr Meeks yet again ignores the fact that the biggest reason given for people voting Leave was 'Britain's ability to make its own laws'. Something he has regularly denied as being a significant reason on here in his desperate attempts to make this all about xenophobia. .
    Talk me through the 57% of Leavers who thought asylum seekers were important to their decision.
  • HYUFD said:

    I would have thought Osborne's imposition of 7% interest on student fees, his 1% public sector pay cap and his 6 week wait for UC etc would have had an impact too.
    The more you look at Osborne's attitude to the young the more you realise he was the architect of a lot of today's problems with the youth vote and universal credit. Likely May and Hammond will start rectifying these errors, beginning in the Autumn budget
  • HYUFD said:

    I would have thought Osborne's imposition of 7% interest on student fees, his 1% public sector pay cap and his 6 week wait for UC etc would have had an impact too.
    Nope, George Osborne's economic policies helped take the Tories from opposition to government, then to a majority, the only one in the last 25 years.

    The long term economic plan was a cornerstone of the Tory majority in 2015.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    Admit it, Alastair. You're just racist against us Leavers!
    No. Large numbers of you are self-deluding cretins who are damaging this country economically, culturally and morally. But you're all God's children.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,131
    edited October 2017
    Voulgaris was skeptical, tweeting, “Cards had speckled shiny dots in what appeared to be distinctive patterns based on value of the cards. Was not a function of shuffler imo. Was really spooky, took a few tries until we found decks which did not have the arrangement of dots.”

    https://www.gamblingsites.org/news/junk-cards-at-wsop/

    In a $100k buyin tournament...

    Good job ivey skipped this year's wsop, otherwise he would have been claiming some of these decks were his lucky decks...

    Again not some Indian casino in Idaho, but one of the largest casino groups in the world.
  • Nope, George Osborne's economic policies helped take the Tories from opposition to government, then to a majority, the only one in the last 25 years.

    The long term economic plan was a cornerstone of the Tory majority in 2015.
    And since then they have become a cause of serious concern
  • No. Large numbers of you are self-deluding cretins who are damaging this country economically, culturally and morally. But you're all God's children.
    White man calls Asian bloke a "self-deluding cretin".

    Yep, you're an unreconstructed racist!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,592
    edited October 2017

    Nope, George Osborne's economic policies helped take the Tories from opposition to government, then to a majority, the only one in the last 25 years.

    The long term economic plan was a cornerstone of the Tory majority in 2015.
    Osborne managed the 2010 campaign when the Tories failed to get a majority, Crosby ran the 2015 campaign. I am not saying everything Osborne did was bad, he made the right call on cutting IHT, cut the deficit and unemployment but there is no doubt his 1% public sector pay cap and freezing of the threshold for student fee repayment were capitalised on by Corbyn in the 2017 general election campaign.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,370

    No. Large numbers of you are self-deluding cretins who are damaging this country economically, culturally and morally. But you're all God's children.
    Thank you for your noble thoughts.
  • And since then they have become a cause of serious concern
    Only because Mrs May decided not to focus on the economy during the campaign.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,592

    The more you look at Osborne's attitude to the young the more you realise he was the architect of a lot of today's problems with the youth vote and universal credit. Likely May and Hammond will start rectifying these errors, beginning in the Autumn budget
    On the student loan repayment threshold and the public sector pay cap most likely and maybe the public sector pay cap too.
  • Las Vegas shooter's younger brother Bruce Paddock, 59, is arrested after police find more than 600 images of child pornography on his computer

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5016979/Las-Vegas-shooter-s-brother-arrested-child-porn.html
  • Talk me through the 57% of Leavers who thought asylum seekers were important to their decision.
    Talk me through the logic that says that anyone who was concerned about the mass migrations that were occurring across the EU in 2015 and 2016 was a xenophobe. It is only mindless bigots like you who think like that.
  • HYUFD said:

    Osborne managed the 2010 campaign where the Tories failed to get a majority, Crosby ran the 2015 campaign. I am not saying everything Osborne did was bad, he made the right call on cutting IHT, cut the deficit and unemployment but there is no doubt his 1% public sector pay cap and freezing of the threshold for student fee repayment were capitalised on by Corbyn in the 2017 general election campaign.
    That would be the 2010 campaign where the Tories made most net gains since at a general election since WW2?

    How many net gains did Mrs May make?
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    Talk me through the logic that says that anyone who was concerned about the mass migrations that were occurring across the EU in 2015 and 2016 was a xenophobe. It is only mindless bigots like you who think like that.
    As I expected, you can't.

    "Breaking Point" was the winning poster. Now Britain has to live with the consequences.
  • PAWPAW Posts: 1,074
    AlastairMeeks - was it a moral decision to declare you would not pay your share of income tax? Or just a decision to stand in solidarity with Jimmy Carr?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,592
    edited October 2017

    That would be the 2010 campaign where the Tories made most net gains since at a general election since WW2?

    How many net gains did Mrs May make?
    She won more seats than the Tories did in 2010.

  • That would be the 2010 campaign where the Tories made most net gains since at a general election since WW2?

    How many net gains did Mrs May make?
    Tory votes 2015: 11,334,226
    Tory votes 2017: 13,669,883

    Mrs May won the highest Tory share of the vote since 1983...
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Either 17,410,742 of my fellow countrymen are xenophobic morons, or one of them is an angry snob. Oooooh, it's a difficult one.

    I am prepared to listen to anyone equating opposition to immigration with racism if they are prepared to do an Orwell: go and live in Boston or Thurrock for three months, living on their own unskilled labour or the dole if they can't find employment. Otherwise, not.
  • Looks like Mrs May is trying to get Matthew Elliott to work for the party. He's pretty astute.

    https://twitter.com/MsHelicat/status/923297144982839298
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,131
    edited October 2017

    Looks like Mrs May is trying to get Matthew Elliott to work for the party. He's pretty astute.

    twitter.com/MsHelicat/status/923297144982839298

    He needs to be more than pretty astute, he needs to be a miracle worker....I think all potential hires need to be tested to see if they can walk on water or part the sea....
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    PAW said:

    AlastairMeeks - was it a moral decision to declare you would not pay your share of income tax? Or just a decision to stand in solidarity with Jimmy Carr?

    What on earth are you talking about?
  • HYUFD said:

    She won more seats than the Tories did in 2010.

    She's left the Tory party in a worse state than when she found it.

    331 seats down to 318 seats.

    When George Osborne got involved properly, he took the party from 198 seats to 331 seats.

    A fie on Mrs May.
  • She's left the Tory party in a worse state than when she found it.

    331 seats down to 318 seats.

    When George Osborne got involved properly, he took the party from 198 seats to 331 seats.

    A fie on Mrs May.
    Tory votes 2015: 11,334,226
    Tory votes 2017: 13,669,883

    Mrs May won the highest Tory share of the vote since 1983...
  • PAWPAW Posts: 1,074
    AlastairMeeks - in the days after the referendum - you said, on this site, you wouldn't pay another penny income tax.

  • Tory votes 2015: 11,334,226
    Tory votes 2017: 13,669,883

    Mrs May won the highest Tory share of the vote since 1983...

    Tedious troll Sunil, the Tory party campaigned on keeping FPTP, that's the metric they want to be judged on.

    If they wanted to be judged on absolute votes/popular vote, then they should have backed proportional representation.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    PAW said:

    AlastairMeeks - in the days after the referendum - you said, on this site, you wouldn't pay another penny income tax.

    You're making things up. Your entirely spurious unemployment statistics for EU residents being another example.

  • She's left the Tory party in a worse state than when she found it.

    331 seats down to 318 seats.

    When George Osborne got involved properly, he took the party from 198 seats to 331 seats.

    A fie on Mrs May.
    David Cameron took the party to 331 seats.
  • NEW THREAD

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,592
    edited October 2017

    She's left the Tory party in a worse state than when she found it.

    331 seats down to 318 seats.

    When George Osborne got involved properly, he took the party from 198 seats to 331 seats.

    A fie on Mrs May.
    Osborne ran the campaign which took the Tories to 306 seats, Cameron and Crosby took them to 331 seats, May got 318 seats.

    Net seat gains is a ridiculous argument, on that basis Kinnock in 1992 did better than Blair in 2001 or Hague in 2001 better than Major in 1992, absurd. It is raw seat numbers which counts.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,163

    "I have been told of a certain sea snake which has a very unusual method of attracting its prey. It will lie at the bottom of the ocean as if wounded. Then its enemies will approach, and yet it will lie quite still. And then its enemies will take little bites of it, and yet it remains still."
    And how did that work out?
  • As I expected, you can't.

    "Breaking Point" was the winning poster. Now Britain has to live with the consequences.
    Still the mindless bigot I see unwilling to accept his own failings.
  • calumcalum Posts: 3,046
    edited October 2017
    del
This discussion has been closed.