politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » After the weekend break welcome back to the coalition of chaos

System · October 2017

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » After the weekend break welcome back to the coalition of chaos

The cartoon just about sums it up. Time is running out under the Brexit extraction process and it is hard to say with any certainty who will be the senior members of government at Christmas.

Read the full story here

PantherDave · October 2017

First?

rcs1000 · October 2017

Third!

IanB2 · October 2017

Second?

Pong · October 2017

Ping

DecrepitJohnL · October 2017

The budget will be fun if the Telegraph is right about the budget hammering higher rate tax-payers who will all immediately leave the country (or was that just CCHQ spin to scare people off voting Labour?). Not to worry -- the first rule of budget leaks a month in advance is the Treasury is flying a kite.

Pong · October 2017

Remember this?:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3241904/We-won-t-stand-Army-brass-warn-MUTINY-Jeremy-Corbyn-Prime-Minister.html

Politics moves fast, dunnit?

Pong · October 2017

DecrepitJohnL said:
The budget will be fun if the Telegraph is right about the budget hammering higher rate tax-payers who will all immediately leave the country (or was that just CCHQ spin to scare people off voting Labour?). Not to worry -- the first rule of budget leaks a month in advance is the Treasury is flying a kite.

The comments under the online article are fantastic;

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/15/philip-hammond-mulling-new-age-tax-raid-older-workers-budget/

Dura_Ace · October 2017

Pong said:

DecrepitJohnL said:
The budget will be fun if the Telegraph is right about the budget hammering higher rate tax-payers who will all immediately leave the country (or was that just CCHQ spin to scare people off voting Labour?). Not to worry -- the first rule of budget leaks a month in advance is the Treasury is flying a kite.
The comments under the online article are fantastic;

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/15/philip-hammond-mulling-new-age-tax-raid-older-workers-budget/

As soon as it gets branded with a snappy epithet of the form 'XXX Tax' it's fucked.

Maybe 'Wrinkle Tax'?

Pong · October 2017

Dura_Ace said:

Pong said:

DecrepitJohnL said:
The budget will be fun if the Telegraph is right about the budget hammering higher rate tax-payers who will all immediately leave the country (or was that just CCHQ spin to scare people off voting Labour?). Not to worry -- the first rule of budget leaks a month in advance is the Treasury is flying a kite.
The comments under the online article are fantastic;

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/15/philip-hammond-mulling-new-age-tax-raid-older-workers-budget/
As soon as it gets branded with a snappy epithet of the form 'XXX Tax' it's fucked.

Maybe 'Wrinkle Tax'?

The "dementia tax" was truly brilliant.

I mean, taxing dementia?

Callous f*ckers. Who could vote for that?

Pong · October 2017

Pong said:

Dura_Ace said:

Pong said:

DecrepitJohnL said:
The budget will be fun if the Telegraph is right about the budget hammering higher rate tax-payers who will all immediately leave the country (or was that just CCHQ spin to scare people off voting Labour?). Not to worry -- the first rule of budget leaks a month in advance is the Treasury is flying a kite.
The comments under the online article are fantastic;

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/15/philip-hammond-mulling-new-age-tax-raid-older-workers-budget/
As soon as it gets branded with a snappy epithet of the form 'XXX Tax' it's fucked.

Maybe 'Wrinkle Tax'?
The "dementia tax" was truly brilliant.

I mean, taxing dementia?

Callous f*ckers. Who could vote for that?

Talking of which (a few days old, now);

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4972802/Tory-minister-reignites-dementia-tax-row.html

"May slaps down minister in dementia tax row by saying the elderly CAN pass their homes on to their children"

TM is Dacres puppet and doesn't he know it. He's spinning for her like crazy.

DecrepitJohnL · October 2017

The OECD updates are due today, aren't they? That should be interesting the day after we lost half a trillion quid.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/10/15/britains-missing-billions-revised-figures-reveal-uk-490bn-poorer/

Mortimer · October 2017

Pong said:

Dura_Ace said:

Pong said:

DecrepitJohnL said:
The budget will be fun if the Telegraph is right about the budget hammering higher rate tax-payers who will all immediately leave the country (or was that just CCHQ spin to scare people off voting Labour?). Not to worry -- the first rule of budget leaks a month in advance is the Treasury is flying a kite.
The comments under the online article are fantastic;

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/15/philip-hammond-mulling-new-age-tax-raid-older-workers-budget/
As soon as it gets branded with a snappy epithet of the form 'XXX Tax' it's fucked.

Maybe 'Wrinkle Tax'?
The "dementia tax" was truly brilliant.

I mean, taxing dementia?

Callous f*ckers. Who could vote for that?

You're the one who keeps whinging about intergenerational fairness.

If more people had understood the idea and voted for it, there would have been much more fairness.

Instead, people decided to vote for, la la land, unicorns and kittens from Labour.

OldKingCole · October 2017

Mortimer said:

Pong said:

Dura_Ace said:

Pong said:

DecrepitJohnL said:
The budget will be fun if the Telegraph is right about the budget hammering higher rate tax-payers who will all immediately leave the country (or was that just CCHQ spin to scare people off voting Labour?). Not to worry -- the first rule of budget leaks a month in advance is the Treasury is flying a kite.
The comments under the online article are fantastic;

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/15/philip-hammond-mulling-new-age-tax-raid-older-workers-budget/
As soon as it gets branded with a snappy epithet of the form 'XXX Tax' it's fucked.

Maybe 'Wrinkle Tax'?
The "dementia tax" was truly brilliant.

I mean, taxing dementia?

Callous f*ckers. Who could vote for that?
You're the one who keeps whinging about intergenerational fairness.

If more people had understood the idea and voted for it, there would have been much more fairness.

Instead, people decided to vote for, la la land, unicorns and kittens from Labour.

As opposed to the la la land etc promised by the Brexiteers?

Alanbrooke · October 2017

OldKingCole said:

Mortimer said:

Pong said:

Dura_Ace said:

Pong said:

DecrepitJohnL said:
The budget will be fun if the Telegraph is right about the budget hammering higher rate tax-payers who will all immediately leave the country (or was that just CCHQ spin to scare people off voting Labour?). Not to worry -- the first rule of budget leaks a month in advance is the Treasury is flying a kite.
The comments under the online article are fantastic;

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/15/philip-hammond-mulling-new-age-tax-raid-older-workers-budget/
As soon as it gets branded with a snappy epithet of the form 'XXX Tax' it's fucked.

Maybe 'Wrinkle Tax'?
The "dementia tax" was truly brilliant.

I mean, taxing dementia?

Callous f*ckers. Who could vote for that?
You're the one who keeps whinging about intergenerational fairness.

If more people had understood the idea and voted for it, there would have been much more fairness.

Instead, people decided to vote for, la la land, unicorns and kittens from Labour.
As opposed to the la la land etc promised by the Brexiteers?

Leave promised LalaLand, Remain promised Mordor

both lied

Alanbrooke · October 2017

France once again has a deficit outside Eurozone rules, today it presents its budget to Brussels. According to the rules it should be fined.

What are the chances ?

http://www.lefigaro.fr/conjoncture/2017/10/16/20002-20171016ARTFIG00028-edouard-philippe-a-bruxelles-pour-defendre-son-budget.php

OldKingCole · October 2017

Alanbrooke said:

OldKingCole said:

Mortimer said:

Pong said:

Dura_Ace said:

Pong said:

DecrepitJohnL said:
The budget will be fun if the Telegraph is right about the budget hammering higher rate tax-payers who will all immediately leave the country (or was that just CCHQ spin to scare people off voting Labour?). Not to worry -- the first rule of budget leaks a month in advance is the Treasury is flying a kite.
The comments under the online article are fantastic;

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/15/philip-hammond-mulling-new-age-tax-raid-older-workers-budget/
As soon as it gets branded with a snappy epithet of the form 'XXX Tax' it's fucked.

Maybe 'Wrinkle Tax'?
The "dementia tax" was truly brilliant.

I mean, taxing dementia?

Callous f*ckers. Who could vote for that?
You're the one who keeps whinging about intergenerational fairness.

If more people had understood the idea and voted for it, there would have been much more fairness.

Instead, people decided to vote for, la la land, unicorns and kittens from Labour.
As opposed to the la la land etc promised by the Brexiteers?
Leave promised LalaLand, Remain promised Mordor

both lied

Yup, two dreadful campaigns. Disgraces to political discussion.

If you saw the film La La Land things turned out well for the girl but not so good for the boy!

Alanbrooke · October 2017

OldKingCole said:

Alanbrooke said:

OldKingCole said:

Mortimer said:

Pong said:

Dura_Ace said:

Pong said:

DecrepitJohnL said:
The budget will be fun if the Telegraph is right about the budget hammering higher rate tax-payers who will all immediately leave the country (or was that just CCHQ spin to scare people off voting Labour?). Not to worry -- the first rule of budget leaks a month in advance is the Treasury is flying a kite.
The comments under the online article are fantastic;

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/15/philip-hammond-mulling-new-age-tax-raid-older-workers-budget/
As soon as it gets branded with a snappy epithet of the form 'XXX Tax' it's fucked.

Maybe 'Wrinkle Tax'?
The "dementia tax" was truly brilliant.

I mean, taxing dementia?

Callous f*ckers. Who could vote for that?
You're the one who keeps whinging about intergenerational fairness.

If more people had understood the idea and voted for it, there would have been much more fairness.

Instead, people decided to vote for, la la land, unicorns and kittens from Labour.
As opposed to the la la land etc promised by the Brexiteers?
Leave promised LalaLand, Remain promised Mordor

both lied
Yup, two dreadful campaigns. Disgraces to political discussion.

If you saw the film La La Land things turned out well for the girl but not so good for the boy!

so it will go well for Theresa but not Jean-Claude ?

foxinsoxuk · October 2017

Alanbrooke said:

OldKingCole said:

Alanbrooke said:

OldKingCole said:

Mortimer said:

Pong said:

Dura_Ace said:

Pong said:

DecrepitJohnL said:
The budget will be fun if the Telegraph is right about the budget hammering higher rate tax-payers who will all immediately leave the country (or was that just CCHQ spin to scare people off voting Labour?). Not to worry -- the first rule of budget leaks a month in advance is the Treasury is flying a kite.
The comments under the online article are fantastic;

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/15/philip-hammond-mulling-new-age-tax-raid-older-workers-budget/
As soon as it gets branded with a snappy epithet of the form 'XXX Tax' it's fucked.

Maybe 'Wrinkle Tax'?
The "dementia tax" was truly brilliant.

I mean, taxing dementia?

Callous f*ckers. Who could vote for that?
You're the one who keeps whinging about intergenerational fairness.

If more people had understood the idea and voted for it, there would have been much more fairness.

Instead, people decided to vote for, la la land, unicorns and kittens from Labour.
As opposed to the la la land etc promised by the Brexiteers?
Leave promised LalaLand, Remain promised Mordor

both lied
Yup, two dreadful campaigns. Disgraces to political discussion.

If you saw the film La La Land things turned out well for the girl but not so good for the boy!
so it will go well for Theresa but not Jean-Claude ?

She will return with a piece of paper that promises peace in our time...

RochdalePioneers · October 2017

We have much to learn from Monty Python when it comes to raising revenue.

We could have a tax on thingy. Thingy? Yes, you know.... Thingy! Bound to be popular with puritanical Daily mail types who think sex is something that poor people do top often.

And of course the real classic. Put a tax on all foreigners living abroad.

Taxing sex and the hun. Better ideas than a pasty tax or dementia.

Pong · October 2017

"It emerged over the weekend that Vauxhall is cutting about 400 jobs at its Ellesmere Port car plant because of falling sales. Prof David Bailey of the Aston Business School told Radio 5 live's Wake Up To Money that a combination of factors had led to the decision.

"That's partly linked to the Brexit vote and it's partly linked to changes in the car market across Europe," he said.

Brexit had increased the price of imported car components, with 70% of parts used at the plant coming from overseas, he said. At the same time, Vauxhall had been "particularly badly placed" to cope with the trend towards SUVs and away from traditional saloon cars.

Vauxhall's move was aimed at "getting costs down so that they can better compete," he said. However, the axe was more likely to fall in the UK than in other plants owned by Vauxhall's parent PSA Group, because workers were easier to sack in the UK than in France, he added."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/business-41612603

Casino_Royale · October 2017

Mortimer said:

Pong said:

Dura_Ace said:

Pong said:

DecrepitJohnL said:
The budget will be fun if the Telegraph is right about the budget hammering higher rate tax-payers who will all immediately leave the country (or was that just CCHQ spin to scare people off voting Labour?). Not to worry -- the first rule of budget leaks a month in advance is the Treasury is flying a kite.
The comments under the online article are fantastic;

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/15/philip-hammond-mulling-new-age-tax-raid-older-workers-budget/
As soon as it gets branded with a snappy epithet of the form 'XXX Tax' it's fucked.

Maybe 'Wrinkle Tax'?
The "dementia tax" was truly brilliant.

I mean, taxing dementia?

Callous f*ckers. Who could vote for that?
You're the one who keeps whinging about intergenerational fairness.

If more people had understood the idea and voted for it, there would have been much more fairness.

Instead, people decided to vote for, la la land, unicorns and kittens from Labour.

One could argue that democracy is working as intended, though. The youth vote was largely ignored up until now, and now it no longer is.

Similar on Brexit: the public wanted immigration brought down for years - and nothing was done - and nor were they allowed a vote on the EU constitution/Lisbon Treaty, so the nuclear option was taken.

In both cases the ballot box held the power and in both cases doing it through the ballot box is better than the alternatives.

OldKingCole · October 2017

Alanbrooke said:

OldKingCole said:

Alanbrooke said:

OldKingCole said:

Mortimer said:

Pong said:

Dura_Ace said:

Pong said:

DecrepitJohnL said:
The budget will be fun if the Telegraph is right about the budget hammering higher rate tax-payers who will all immediately leave the country (or was that just CCHQ spin to scare people off voting Labour?). Not to worry -- the first rule of budget leaks a month in advance is the Treasury is flying a kite.
The comments under the online article are fantastic;

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/15/philip-hammond-mulling-new-age-tax-raid-older-workers-budget/
As soon as it gets branded with a snappy epithet of the form 'XXX Tax' it's fucked.

Maybe 'Wrinkle Tax'?
The "dementia tax" was truly brilliant.

I mean, taxing dementia?

Callous f*ckers. Who could vote for that?
You're the one who keeps whinging about intergenerational fairness.

If more people had understood the idea and voted for it, there would have been much more fairness.

Instead, people decided to vote for, la la land, unicorns and kittens from Labour.
As opposed to the la la land etc promised by the Brexiteers?
Leave promised LalaLand, Remain promised Mordor

both lied
Yup, two dreadful campaigns. Disgraces to political discussion.

If you saw the film La La Land things turned out well for the girl but not so good for the boy!
so it will go well for Theresa but not Jean-Claude ?

LOL. She ended up having lots of regrets too.

Morris_Dancer · October 2017

Good morning, everyone.

A rather sad political situation we have. And the alternative is worse.

Casino_Royale · October 2017

Straws in the wind: a few of my centre-left friends are now starting to get v.worried about Corbyn and are posting things on WhatsApp about how communism has never worked. They have voted Labour in the past but are shuddering at the thought of him in power.

Yes, they hate the Tories and Brexit but I wonder if the exit process isn't too bad, and Corbyn overplays his hand, the Tories could win in GE2022 despite being despised for fear of the alternative.

That would probably mean a very heavy defeat to a moderate Labour leader in GE26/27 but hey ho.

Like Ruth Davidson said the Tories need to generally get a grip and man up a bit.

Mortimer · October 2017

foxinsoxuk said:

Alanbrooke said:

OldKingCole said:

Alanbrooke said:

OldKingCole said:

Mortimer said:

Pong said:

Dura_Ace said:

Pong said:

DecrepitJohnL said:
The budget will be fun if the Telegraph is right about the budget hammering higher rate tax-payers who will all immediately leave the country (or was that just CCHQ spin to scare people off voting Labour?). Not to worry -- the first rule of budget leaks a month in advance is the Treasury is flying a kite.
The comments under the online article are fantastic;

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/15/philip-hammond-mulling-new-age-tax-raid-older-workers-budget/
As soon as it gets branded with a snappy epithet of the form 'XXX Tax' it's fucked.

Maybe 'Wrinkle Tax'?
The "dementia tax" was truly brilliant.

I mean, taxing dementia?

Callous f*ckers. Who could vote for that?
You're the one who keeps whinging about intergenerational fairness.

If more people had understood the idea and voted for it, there would have been much more fairness.

Instead, people decided to vote for, la la land, unicorns and kittens from Labour.
As opposed to the la la land etc promised by the Brexiteers?
Leave promised LalaLand, Remain promised Mordor

both lied
Yup, two dreadful campaigns. Disgraces to political discussion.

If you saw the film La La Land things turned out well for the girl but not so good for the boy!
so it will go well for Theresa but not Jean-Claude ?
She will return with a piece of paper that promises peace in our time...

Careful, certain posters will be on at your for comparing the EU to a certain 1930s historical example. Even if you're not...

OldKingCole · October 2017

Morris_Dancer said:
Good morning, everyone.

A rather sad political situation we have. And the alternative is worse.

+1 (almost!!!)
Not sure the alternative is worse, just not a lot better. Another bit of Cameron’s dreadful legacy; smashing the third party alternative.

ydoethur · October 2017

OldKingCole said:

Morris_Dancer said:
Good morning, everyone.

A rather sad political situation we have. And the alternative is worse.
+1 (almost!!!)
Not sure the alternative is worse, just not a lot better. Another bit of Cameron’s dreadful legacy; smashing the third party alternative.

No, Corbyn is definitely worse. He's more dishonest, more stupid and less experienced.

SouthamObserver · October 2017

Casino_Royale said:
Straws in the wind: a few of my centre-left friends are now starting to get v.worried about Corbyn and are posting things on WhatsApp about how communism has never worked. They have voted Labour in the past but are shuddering at the thought of him in power.

Yes, they hate the Tories and Brexit but I wonder if the exit process isn't too bad, and Corbyn overplays his hand, the Tories could win in GE2022 despite being despised for fear of the alternative.

That would probably mean a very heavy defeat to a moderate Labour leader in GE26/27 but hey ho.

Like Ruth Davidson said the Tories need to generally get a grip and man up a bit.

Corbyn is the Tory firewall. As things stand I expect Tories to win most seats at the next general election and for that government to be the last iConservative one for at least a generation.

OldKingCole · October 2017

ydoethur said:

OldKingCole said:

Morris_Dancer said:
Good morning, everyone.

A rather sad political situation we have. And the alternative is worse.
+1 (almost!!!)
Not sure the alternative is worse, just not a lot better. Another bit of Cameron’s dreadful legacy; smashing the third party alternative.
No, Corbyn is definitely worse. He's more dishonest, more stupid and less experienced.

More dishonest than Johnson? I grant you that May’s just out of her depth.

ydoethur · October 2017

Morris_Dancer said:
Good morning, everyone.

A rather sad political situation we have. And the alternative is worse.

Morgan Kelly's wonderfully acerbic comment at the height of Ireland's implosion springs to mind:

'The stark lesson of the last thirty years is that while the record of Fianna Fáil is decidedly mixed, that of the various Fine Gael coalitions is uniformly dismal.'

In Australia they go round and round in circles.

In India they had Modi or one of the Ghandhis who have held power for what feels like forever.

In Russia they have Putin or err....

What have we come to as a planet?

Morris_Dancer · October 2017

King Cole, it's intriguing. If something even as uninspiring as Cooper were Labour leader, I'd be faced with a voting dilemma, given how poor the leadership of the Conservatives is.

But when the alternative is a self-declared friend of Hamas and Hezbollah, a unilateralist, a chap who isn't quite sure if bombing terrorists in Raqqa is something he'd do even if they were plotting acts here, well...

ydoethur · October 2017

OldKingCole said:

ydoethur said:

OldKingCole said:

Morris_Dancer said:
Good morning, everyone.

A rather sad political situation we have. And the alternative is worse.
+1 (almost!!!)
Not sure the alternative is worse, just not a lot better. Another bit of Cameron’s dreadful legacy; smashing the third party alternative.
No, Corbyn is definitely worse. He's more dishonest, more stupid and less experienced.
More dishonest than Johnson? I grant you that May is just out of her depth.

Yes, imposing achievement though that is. His campaign was almost identical in terms of uncosted promises (that he falsely claimed were costed) and had almost the same disastrous result.

And intellectually he is more out of his depth than an ant in the Mindanao Deep.

SouthamObserver · October 2017

Alanbrooke said:

France once again has a deficit outside Eurozone rules, today it presents its budget to Brussels. According to the rules it should be fined.

What are the chances ?

http://www.lefigaro.fr/conjoncture/2017/10/16/20002-20171016ARTFIG00028-edouard-philippe-a-bruxelles-pour-defendre-son-budget.php

The good news for France is that as FDI in the UK collapses (see today's Telegraph) there are more opportunities for the remaining EU27, whose economies are also performing much better than the UK's. Maybe that's why Macrons approval ratings are climbing again and two nationwide union-called days of action protesting against his reforms have flopped.

SouthamObserver · October 2017

ydoethur said:

OldKingCole said:

Morris_Dancer said:
Good morning, everyone.

A rather sad political situation we have. And the alternative is worse.
+1 (almost!!!)
Not sure the alternative is worse, just not a lot better. Another bit of Cameron’s dreadful legacy; smashing the third party alternative.
No, Corbyn is definitely worse. He's more dishonest, more stupid and less experienced.

On Corbyn Dishonesty, stupidity and lack of experience, for sure. But who would I rather have doing the Brexit negotiations - Davis or Starmer? Well, there's no contest there. Sir Keir puts the work in, as opposed to the Minister for Winging It. Thornberry or Johnson, the former, just. Hammond beats McDonnell, but it's getting close; and Rudd is obviously ahead of Abbott. As for the rest, it's pretty much nip and tuck. The one difference is that May is picking from a full team; Corbyn has decided he doesn't want to.

MarqueeMark · October 2017

OldKingCole said:

Morris_Dancer said:
Good morning, everyone.

A rather sad political situation we have. And the alternative is worse.
+1 (almost!!!)
Not sure the alternative is worse, just not a lot better. Another bit of Cameron’s dreadful legacy; smashing the third party alternative.

The third party alternative was smashed not by Cameron, but by years and years of defying gravity. It was like Wile. E. Coyote, running on thin air, before finally plummeting to the canyon below.

They could knit left and rright together by promising all to both. Until they actually got power.

DecrepitJohnL · October 2017

ydoethur said:

OldKingCole said:

ydoethur said:

OldKingCole said:

Morris_Dancer said:
Good morning, everyone.

A rather sad political situation we have. And the alternative is worse.
+1 (almost!!!)
Not sure the alternative is worse, just not a lot better. Another bit of Cameron’s dreadful legacy; smashing the third party alternative.
No, Corbyn is definitely worse. He's more dishonest, more corrupt, more stupid and less experienced.
More dishonest than Johnson? I grant you that May doesn’t seem corrupt, just out of her depth.
Yes, imposing achievement though that is. His campaign was almost identical in terms of uncosted promises (that he falsely claimed were costed) and had almost the same disastrous result.

And intellectually he is more out of his depth than an ant in the Mindanao Deep.

Labour's manifesto was costed. The Conservative one was not. It is because Labour's manifesto was costed that people and organisations like the IFS could question and argue with its costings.

YBarddCwsc · October 2017

Pong said:

Dura_Ace said:

Pong said:

DecrepitJohnL said:
The budget will be fun if the Telegraph is right about the budget hammering higher rate tax-payers who will all immediately leave the country (or was that just CCHQ spin to scare people off voting Labour?). Not to worry -- the first rule of budget leaks a month in advance is the Treasury is flying a kite.
The comments under the online article are fantastic;

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/15/philip-hammond-mulling-new-age-tax-raid-older-workers-budget/
As soon as it gets branded with a snappy epithet of the form 'XXX Tax' it's fucked.

Maybe 'Wrinkle Tax'?
The "dementia tax" was truly brilliant.

I mean, taxing dementia?

Callous f*ckers. Who could vote for that?

The phrase ‘the Dementia Tax’ was coined by the Alzhemier’s Society in 2007 to describe the policies of the then Labour Government.

PBModerator · October 2017

Can PBers not use words like corrupt when talking about politicians, it can get OGH into trouble.

Casino_Royale · October 2017

SouthamObserver said:

Casino_Royale said:
Straws in the wind: a few of my centre-left friends are now starting to get v.worried about Corbyn and are posting things on WhatsApp about how communism has never worked. They have voted Labour in the past but are shuddering at the thought of him in power.

Yes, they hate the Tories and Brexit but I wonder if the exit process isn't too bad, and Corbyn overplays his hand, the Tories could win in GE2022 despite being despised for fear of the alternative.

That would probably mean a very heavy defeat to a moderate Labour leader in GE26/27 but hey ho.

Like Ruth Davidson said the Tories need to generally get a grip and man up a bit.

Corbyn is the Tory firewall. As things stand I expect Tories to win most seats at the next general election and for that government to be the last iConservative one for at least a generation.

I wish I had your confidence to see that far into the future!

kle4 · October 2017

Pong said:

Dura_Ace said:

Pong said:

DecrepitJohnL said:
The budget will be fun if the Telegraph is right about the budget hammering higher rate tax-payers who will all immediately leave the country (or was that just CCHQ spin to scare people off voting Labour?). Not to worry -- the first rule of budget leaks a month in advance is the Treasury is flying a kite.
The comments under the online article are fantastic;

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/15/philip-hammond-mulling-new-age-tax-raid-older-workers-budget/
As soon as it gets branded with a snappy epithet of the form 'XXX Tax' it's fucked.

Maybe 'Wrinkle Tax'?
The "dementia tax" was truly brilliant.

I mean, taxing dementia?

Callous f*ckers. Who could vote for that?

It was a good name. Puts bedroom tax to shame. (Even better than death tax too)

Both decent ideas though.

NickPalmer · October 2017

SouthamObserver said:

ydoethur said:

OldKingCole said:

Morris_Dancer said:
Good morning, everyone.

A rather sad political situation we have. And the alternative is worse.
+1 (almost!!!)
Not sure the alternative is worse, just not a lot better. Another bit of Cameron’s dreadful legacy; smashing the third party alternative.
No, Corbyn is definitely worse. He's more dishonest, more stupid and less experienced.

On Corbyn Dishonesty, stupidity and lack of experience, for sure. But who would I rather have doing the Brexit negotiations - Davis or Starmer? Well, there's no contest there. Sir Keir puts the work in, as opposed to the Minister for Winging It. Thornberry or Johnson, the former, just. Hammond beats McDonnell, but it's getting close; and Rudd is obviously ahead of Abbott. As for the rest, it's pretty much nip and tuck. The one difference is that May is picking from a full team; Corbyn has decided he doesn't want to.

I know we disagree on these things, but I'm surprised that you think Thornberry only just better than Johnson. She's witty within reasonable limits and coherent, and doesn't seem to have any shocking policies: the worst the Tories have to say about her is that she once posted a (by implication) snooty text. Johnson would be an amusing party chair, but as Foreign Secretary, he actively embarasses Britain.

By way of balance, I don't think Davis is that bad. I don't know his work ethic, but he's reasonably coherent on TV and despite the tricky situation has avoided the obvious mantraps (such as describing the other negotiators as enemies).

YBarddCwsc · October 2017

DecrepitJohnL said:

ydoethur said:

OldKingCole said:

ydoethur said:

OldKingCole said:

Morris_Dancer said:
Good morning, everyone.

A rather sad political situation we have. And the alternative is worse.
+1 (almost!!!)
Not sure the alternative is worse, just not a lot better. Another bit of Cameron’s dreadful legacy; smashing the third party alternative.
No, Corbyn is definitely worse. He's more dishonest, more corrupt, more stupid and less experienced.
More dishonest than Johnson? I grant you that May doesn’t seem corrupt, just out of her depth.
Yes, imposing achievement though that is. His campaign was almost identical in terms of uncosted promises (that he falsely claimed were costed) and had almost the same disastrous result.

And intellectually he is more out of his depth than an ant in the Mindanao Deep.
Labour's manifesto was costed. The Conservative one was not. It is because Labour's manifesto was costed that people and organisations like the IFS could question and argue with its costings.

I am looking forward to your explanation of the cost of a National Care Service at 3 billion pounds.

Let’s just take one aspect of this. There are 300,000 people in residential care. The typical cost of care home fees is 30,000 pa, though cost of dementia treatment is substantially more.
Unless you have assets more than 23,200, you will pay the fees yourself. Most people pay the fees.

Multiply the two numbers together, and see if you can get an answer less than 3 billion.

This is just one small part of the care budget, yet it already exceeds by a huge margin the cost assigned to the creation of an entire National Care Service in the Labour Manifesto.

I did work out the figures at the time, but I reckoned the actual cost of creating a National Care Service providing what Labour said it would was about 18 billion pounds a year.

kle4 · October 2017

OldKingCole said:

Morris_Dancer said:
Good morning, everyone.

A rather sad political situation we have. And the alternative is worse.
+1 (almost!!!)
Not sure the alternative is worse, just not a lot better. Another bit of Cameron’s dreadful legacy; smashing the third party alternative.

It's camerons fault people pounded the lds for being junior partner? This seems like another situation where people want to blame the voters without appearing to blame the voters.

HYUFD · October 2017

Except in reality the Tories are actually now more united on Europe than Labour, 80% of 2017 Tory voters and members now back Brexit and leaving the single market to control free movement and not paying a vast exit bill to the EU. Most Tory MPs are also now firm Brexiteers too apart from a few diehards like Clarke and Soubry and bow it seems Hammond.

By contrast while the Labour leadership backs leaving the single market probably at least half its MPs and voters and members do not while the other half of its MPs do back leaving the single market to end free movement as they represent Leave seats. Yestererday Starmer was talking of not leaving without a deal while keeping exit payments as low as possible, logically impossible.

So it is actually the LDs who we most united in opposition to Brexit and leaving the single market, the Tories are becoming increasingly United on backing Brexit and leaving the single market while Labour is split.

OldKingCole · October 2017

PBModerator said:
Can PBers not use words like corrupt when talking about politicians, it can get OGH into trouble.

Fair enough. Did wonder. Goes to prove the old adage; think twice before hitting send!

Freggles · October 2017

kle4 said:

Pong said:

Dura_Ace said:

Pong said:

DecrepitJohnL said:
The budget will be fun if the Telegraph is right about the budget hammering higher rate tax-payers who will all immediately leave the country (or was that just CCHQ spin to scare people off voting Labour?). Not to worry -- the first rule of budget leaks a month in advance is the Treasury is flying a kite.
The comments under the online article are fantastic;

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/15/philip-hammond-mulling-new-age-tax-raid-older-workers-budget/
As soon as it gets branded with a snappy epithet of the form 'XXX Tax' it's fucked.

Maybe 'Wrinkle Tax'?
The "dementia tax" was truly brilliant.

I mean, taxing dementia?

Callous f*ckers. Who could vote for that?
It was a good name. Puts bedroom tax to shame. (Even better than death tax too)

Both decent ideas though.

The Nana Tax

The Grandma Tax

kle4 · October 2017

Catalonia and Madrid still bring coy it seems. Bbc say the former have not clarified if they've formally declared already, and the latyre will probably extend their deadline til Thursday. I guess the good sign is neither appears keen to take the next step. Doesn't mean they won't, but they're not keen.

HYUFD · October 2017

Casino_Royale said:
Straws in the wind: a few of my centre-left friends are now starting to get v.worried about Corbyn and are posting things on WhatsApp about how communism has never worked. They have voted Labour in the past but are shuddering at the thought of him in power.

Yes, they hate the Tories and Brexit but I wonder if the exit process isn't too bad, and Corbyn overplays his hand, the Tories could win in GE2022 despite being despised for fear of the alternative.

That would probably mean a very heavy defeat to a moderate Labour leader in GE26/27 but hey ho.

Like Ruth Davidson said the Tories need to generally get a grip and man up a bit.

As I have frequently said if the Tories beat Corbyn they will be doing so for the country not the party, longer term the Tories would revive far quicker in opposition against Corbyn after losing the next general election relatively narrowly than if they stay in power for nearly another decade and then face a landslide defeat to a more moderate Labour leader a la 1997.

Freggles · October 2017

So after the jubilant crowing by Leavers that the economy was strong and investment flowing despite the referendum result, it turns out that as predicted we have taken a massive hit.
Boris has screwed the country for his own ambitions

kle4 · October 2017

HYUFD said:
Except in reality the Tories are actually now more united on Europe than Labour, 80% of 2017 Tory voters and members now back Brexit and leaving the single market to control free movement and not paying a vast exit bill to the EU. Most Tory MPs are also now firm Brexiteers too apart from a few diehards like Clarke and Soubry and bow it seems Hammond.

By contrast while the Labour leadership backs leaving the single market probably at least half its MPs and voters and members do not while the other half of its MPs do back leaving the single market to end free movement as they represent Leave seats. Yestererday Starmer was talking of not leaving without a deal while keeping exit payments as low as possible, logically impossible.

So it is actually the LDs who we most united in opposition to Brexit and leaving the single market, the Tories are becoming increasingly United on backing Brexit and leaving the single market while Labour is split.

But are doing a very good job of avoiding blowback from that. The benefits of positive political momentum and a fatally wounded opponent.

HYUFD · October 2017

Pong said:

Pong said:

Dura_Ace said:

Pong said:

DecrepitJohnL said:
The budget will be fun if the Telegraph is right about the budget hammering higher rate tax-payers who will all immediately leave the country (or was that just CCHQ spin to scare people off voting Labour?). Not to worry -- the first rule of budget leaks a month in advance is the Treasury is flying a kite.
The comments under the online article are fantastic;

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/15/philip-hammond-mulling-new-age-tax-raid-older-workers-budget/
As soon as it gets branded with a snappy epithet of the form 'XXX Tax' it's fucked.

Maybe 'Wrinkle Tax'?
The "dementia tax" was truly brilliant.

I mean, taxing dementia?

Callous f*ckers. Who could vote for that?
Talking of which (a few days old, now);

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4972802/Tory-minister-reignites-dementia-tax-row.html

"May slaps down minister in dementia tax row by saying the elderly CAN pass their homes on to their children"

TM is Dacres puppet and doesn't he know it. He's spinning for her like crazy.

At least May has learnt that

SouthamObserver · October 2017

NickPalmer said:

SouthamObserver said:

ydoethur said:

OldKingCole said:

Morris_Dancer said:
Good morning, everyone.

A rather sad political situation we have. And the alternative is worse.
+1 (almost!!!)
Not sure the alternative is worse, just not a lot better. Another bit of Cameron’s dreadful legacy; smashing the third party alternative.
No, Corbyn is definitely worse. He's more dishonest, more stupid and less experienced.

On Corbyn Dishonesty, stupidity and lack of experience, for sure. But who would I rather have doing the Brexit negotiations - Davis or Starmer? Well, there's no contest there. Sir Keir puts the work in, as opposed to the Minister for Winging It. Thornberry or Johnson, the former, just. Hammond beats McDonnell, but it's getting close; and Rudd is obviously ahead of Abbott. As for the rest, it's pretty much nip and tuck. The one difference is that May is picking from a full team; Corbyn has decided he doesn't want to.

I know we disagree on these things, but I'm surprised that you think Thornberry only just better than Johnson. She's witty within reasonable limits and coherent, and doesn't seem to have any shocking policies: the worst the Tories have to say about her is that she once posted a (by implication) snooty text. Johnson would be an amusing party chair, but as Foreign Secretary, he actively embarasses Britain.

By way of balance, I don't think Davis is that bad. I don't know his work ethic, but he's reasonably coherent on TV and despite the tricky situation has avoided the obvious mantraps (such as describing the other negotiators as enemies).

I don't believe Thornberry believes half the things she says - that's my problem with her. I guess she's like Johnson in that respect. In terms of competence, I agree she is well ahead of him. A year ago Davis was promising that the UK would be part of a free trade area with a GDP 10 times greater than the EU's the day after Brexit and that German car manufacturers would ensure a quick and easy deal with the EU. Earlier this year he was promising a deal with the EU that would retain all the benefits of membership. He is going through a proteacted learning experience because he never bothered to do his homework.

What dropped off my original post is that I wrote I saw no indication that Corbyn is corrupt. I really don't think he is.

kle4 · October 2017

Freggles said:

kle4 said:

Pong said:

Dura_Ace said:

Pong said:

DecrepitJohnL said:
The budget will be fun if the Telegraph is right about the budget hammering higher rate tax-payers who will all immediately leave the country (or was that just CCHQ spin to scare people off voting Labour?). Not to worry -- the first rule of budget leaks a month in advance is the Treasury is flying a kite.
The comments under the online article are fantastic;

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/15/philip-hammond-mulling-new-age-tax-raid-older-workers-budget/
As soon as it gets branded with a snappy epithet of the form 'XXX Tax' it's fucked.

Maybe 'Wrinkle Tax'?
The "dementia tax" was truly brilliant.

I mean, taxing dementia?

Callous f*ckers. Who could vote for that?
It was a good name. Puts bedroom tax to shame. (Even better than death tax too)

Both decent ideas though.
The Nana Tax

The Grandma Tax

We're those real other taxes or alternate names for the dementia tax? Neither really has that immediate visceral reaction that, (labelling) taxing dementia does.

Morris_Dancer · October 2017

In not entirely unexpected news, clashes are beginning between Kurds and Iraqi Government forces in northern Iraq:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-41631697

CD13 · October 2017

Both party leaders have been lucky. May for obvious reasons. Jeremy, because he is faced with a hapless leader opposite, and been able to escape with a hopeless Brexit policy.

Basically, they (Starmer included) claim that the negotiations are being mishandled because the EU negotiators are gagging to give us a trade deal - if only we asked.

The fact that the EU refuse to even discuss trade until we pay an enormous ransom for leaving is quietly forgotten. A question for Starmer? How much will you pay to discuss trade? 100 billion? 200 billion?

We've had a lucky escape. We could be locked into a rapidly developing European Super-state, whose idea of democracy is to impose their ideas. I understand Labour's enthusiasm. It might be the only way they can ever see their brand of state control in the UK with the ungrateful voters they currently have.

Had May been earlier, and they'd picked anyone but a Trot puppet to replace Ed, they would have been in government and the referendum a distant dream.

foxinsoxuk · October 2017

Freggles said:
So after the jubilant crowing by Leavers that the economy was strong and investment flowing despite the referendum result, it turns out that as predicted we have taken a massive hit.
Boris has screwed the country for his own ambitions

It is beginning to look like Project Fear was only wrong in the timing.

Elliot · October 2017

Freggles said:
So after the jubilant crowing by Leavers that the economy was strong and investment flowing despite the referendum result, it turns out that as predicted we have taken a massive hit.
Boris has screwed the country for his own ambitions

Sorry, what is the massive hit? I can't see anything major on Google news.

Elliot · October 2017

SouthamObserver said:

ydoethur said:

OldKingCole said:

Morris_Dancer said:
Good morning, everyone.

A rather sad political situation we have. And the alternative is worse.
+1 (almost!!!)
Not sure the alternative is worse, just not a lot better. Another bit of Cameron’s dreadful legacy; smashing the third party alternative.
No, Corbyn is definitely worse. He's more dishonest, more stupid and less experienced.

On Corbyn Dishonesty, stupidity and lack of experience, for sure. But who would I rather have doing the Brexit negotiations - Davis or Starmer? Well, there's no contest there. Sir Keir puts the work in, as opposed to the Minister for Winging It. Thornberry or Johnson, the former, just. Hammond beats McDonnell, but it's getting close; and Rudd is obviously ahead of Abbott. As for the rest, it's pretty much nip and tuck. The one difference is that May is picking from a full team; Corbyn has decided he doesn't want to.

Has Starmer even decided whether we should stay in the single market yet? Starmer looks vetter because he is avoiding making any choices and being in opposition lets him get away with it.

Sean_F · October 2017

Elliot said:

Freggles said:
So after the jubilant crowing by Leavers that the economy was strong and investment flowing despite the referendum result, it turns out that as predicted we have taken a massive hit.
Boris has screwed the country for his own ambitions
Sorry, what is the massive hit? I can't see anything major on Google news.

The ONS previously hugely overestimated the value of overseas assets held by UK residents. Though, I presume that over-estimate applied both pre- and post- the Brexit vote.

Freggles · October 2017

Elliot said:

Freggles said:
So after the jubilant crowing by Leavers that the economy was strong and investment flowing despite the referendum result, it turns out that as predicted we have taken a massive hit.
Boris has screwed the country for his own ambitions
Sorry, what is the massive hit? I can't see anything major on Google news.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/10/15/britains-missing-billions-revised-figures-reveal-uk-490bn-poorer/

kle4 said:

Freggles said:

kle4 said:

Pong said:

Dura_Ace said:

Pong said:

DecrepitJohnL said:
The budget will be fun if the Telegraph is right about the budget hammering higher rate tax-payers who will all immediately leave the country (or was that just CCHQ spin to scare people off voting Labour?). Not to worry -- the first rule of budget leaks a month in advance is the Treasury is flying a kite.
The comments under the online article are fantastic;

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/15/philip-hammond-mulling-new-age-tax-raid-older-workers-budget/
As soon as it gets branded with a snappy epithet of the form 'XXX Tax' it's fucked.

Maybe 'Wrinkle Tax'?
The "dementia tax" was truly brilliant.

I mean, taxing dementia?

Callous f*ckers. Who could vote for that?
It was a good name. Puts bedroom tax to shame. (Even better than death tax too)

Both decent ideas though.
The Nana Tax

The Grandma Tax

We're those real other taxes or alternate names for the dementia tax? Neither really has that immediate visceral reaction that, (labelling) taxing dementia does.

Trying to predict what the tabloids/Labour would call a tax break for younger people / tax hike for older people.

Elliot · October 2017

Casino_Royale said:
Straws in the wind: a few of my centre-left friends are now starting to get v.worried about Corbyn and are posting things on WhatsApp about how communism has never worked. They have voted Labour in the past but are shuddering at the thought of him in power.

Yes, they hate the Tories and Brexit but I wonder if the exit process isn't too bad, and Corbyn overplays his hand, the Tories could win in GE2022 despite being despised for fear of the alternative.

That would probably mean a very heavy defeat to a moderate Labour leader in GE26/27 but hey ho.

Like Ruth Davidson said the Tories need to generally get a grip and man up a bit.

I live in hope that my fellow social democrats will come to their senses on Corbyn. Right now there is a lot back-justification going on. Brexit could be a hard hit, but the UK can bounce back. A return to 1970s style socialism will take decades to come back from and destroy the Labour Party.

bigjohnowls · October 2017

Pong said:

DecrepitJohnL said:
The budget will be fun if the Telegraph is right about the budget hammering higher rate tax-payers who will all immediately leave the country (or was that just CCHQ spin to scare people off voting Labour?). Not to worry -- the first rule of budget leaks a month in advance is the Treasury is flying a kite.
The comments under the online article are fantastic;

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/15/philip-hammond-mulling-new-age-tax-raid-older-workers-budget/

Oh thank you. What a wonderful 5 mins.

The Bolshevicks are coming!!

Elliot · October 2017

Freggles said:

Elliot said:

Freggles said:
So after the jubilant crowing by Leavers that the economy was strong and investment flowing despite the referendum result, it turns out that as predicted we have taken a massive hit.
Boris has screwed the country for his own ambitions
Sorry, what is the massive hit? I can't see anything major on Google news.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/10/15/britains-missing-billions-revised-figures-reveal-uk-490bn-poorer/
kle4 said:

Freggles said:

kle4 said:

Pong said:

Dura_Ace said:

Pong said:

DecrepitJohnL said:
The budget will be fun if the Telegraph is right about the budget hammering higher rate tax-payers who will all immediately leave the country (or was that just CCHQ spin to scare people off voting Labour?). Not to worry -- the first rule of budget leaks a month in advance is the Treasury is flying a kite.
The comments under the online article are fantastic;

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/15/philip-hammond-mulling-new-age-tax-raid-older-workers-budget/
As soon as it gets branded with a snappy epithet of the form 'XXX Tax' it's fucked.

Maybe 'Wrinkle Tax'?
The "dementia tax" was truly brilliant.

I mean, taxing dementia?

Callous f*ckers. Who could vote for that?
It was a good name. Puts bedroom tax to shame. (Even better than death tax too)

Both decent ideas though.
The Nana Tax

The Grandma Tax

We're those real other taxes or alternate names for the dementia tax? Neither really has that immediate visceral reaction that, (labelling) taxing dementia does.
Trying to predict what the tabloids/Labour would call a tax break for younger people / tax hike for older people.

I can't read behind the paywall. The opening paragraph suggests a longer term statistical revision rather than a change due to Brexit. Is there more below the line?

Ishmael_Z · October 2017

foxinsoxuk said:

Freggles said:
So after the jubilant crowing by Leavers that the economy was strong and investment flowing despite the referendum result, it turns out that as predicted we have taken a massive hit.
Boris has screwed the country for his own ambitions
It is beginning to look like Project Fear was only wrong in the timing.

Wrong in the timing = wrong for all practical purposes. Just as, if you say to every patient you see this week "you are going to die," your prognosis success rate will eventually hit 100%.

bigjohnowls · October 2017

RochdalePioneers said:
We have much to learn from Monty Python when it comes to raising revenue.

We could have a tax on thingy. Thingy? Yes, you know.... Thingy! Bound to be popular with puritanical Daily mail types who think sex is something that poor people do top often.

And of course the real classic. Put a tax on all foreigners living abroad.

Taxing sex and the hun. Better ideas than a pasty tax or dementia.

Lupins

TheScreamingEagles · October 2017

https://twitter.com/will_sherlock/status/919826268786487296

Slackbladder · October 2017

Freggles said:

Elliot said:

Freggles said:
So after the jubilant crowing by Leavers that the economy was strong and investment flowing despite the referendum result, it turns out that as predicted we have taken a massive hit.
Boris has screwed the country for his own ambitions
Sorry, what is the massive hit? I can't see anything major on Google news.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/10/15/britains-missing-billions-revised-figures-reveal-uk-490bn-poorer/
kle4 said:

Freggles said:

kle4 said:

Pong said:

Dura_Ace said:

Pong said:

DecrepitJohnL said:
The budget will be fun if the Telegraph is right about the budget hammering higher rate tax-payers who will all immediately leave the country (or was that just CCHQ spin to scare people off voting Labour?). Not to worry -- the first rule of budget leaks a month in advance is the Treasury is flying a kite.
The comments under the online article are fantastic;

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/15/philip-hammond-mulling-new-age-tax-raid-older-workers-budget/
As soon as it gets branded with a snappy epithet of the form 'XXX Tax' it's fucked.

Maybe 'Wrinkle Tax'?
The "dementia tax" was truly brilliant.

I mean, taxing dementia?

Callous f*ckers. Who could vote for that?
It was a good name. Puts bedroom tax to shame. (Even better than death tax too)

Both decent ideas though.
The Nana Tax

The Grandma Tax

We're those real other taxes or alternate names for the dementia tax? Neither really has that immediate visceral reaction that, (labelling) taxing dementia does.
Trying to predict what the tabloids/Labour would call a tax break for younger people / tax hike for older people.

Employee NI on older workers? But that wouldn't effect too many people.

Sean_F · October 2017

Ishmael_Z said:

foxinsoxuk said:

Freggles said:
So after the jubilant crowing by Leavers that the economy was strong and investment flowing despite the referendum result, it turns out that as predicted we have taken a massive hit.
Boris has screwed the country for his own ambitions
It is beginning to look like Project Fear was only wrong in the timing.

Wrong in the timing = wrong for all practical purposes. Just as, if you say to every patient you see this week "you are going to die," your prognosis success rate will eventually hit 100%.

I can confidently predict that at some point in the future, the UK economy will enter a recession.

TheScreamingEagles · October 2017

Elliot said:

Freggles said:

Elliot said:

Freggles said:
So after the jubilant crowing by Leavers that the economy was strong and investment flowing despite the referendum result, it turns out that as predicted we have taken a massive hit.
Boris has screwed the country for his own ambitions
Sorry, what is the massive hit? I can't see anything major on Google news.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/10/15/britains-missing-billions-revised-figures-reveal-uk-490bn-poorer/
kle4 said:

Freggles said:

kle4 said:

Pong said:

Dura_Ace said:

Pong said:

DecrepitJohnL said:
The budget will be fun if the Telegraph is right about the budget hammering higher rate tax-payers who will all immediately leave the country (or was that just CCHQ spin to scare people off voting Labour?). Not to worry -- the first rule of budget leaks a month in advance is the Treasury is flying a kite.
The comments under the online article are fantastic;

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/15/philip-hammond-mulling-new-age-tax-raid-older-workers-budget/
As soon as it gets branded with a snappy epithet of the form 'XXX Tax' it's fucked.

Maybe 'Wrinkle Tax'?
The "dementia tax" was truly brilliant.

I mean, taxing dementia?

Callous f*ckers. Who could vote for that?
It was a good name. Puts bedroom tax to shame. (Even better than death tax too)

Both decent ideas though.
The Nana Tax

The Grandma Tax

We're those real other taxes or alternate names for the dementia tax? Neither really has that immediate visceral reaction that, (labelling) taxing dementia does.
Trying to predict what the tabloids/Labour would call a tax break for younger people / tax hike for older people.
I can't read behind the paywall. The opening paragraph suggests a longer term statistical revision rather than a change due to Brexit. Is there more below the line?

Yes, see the bit about FDI.

https://twitter.com/ChukaUmunna/status/919693897525350400

CD13 · October 2017

Dr Fox,

I suspect a Corbyn government will blame a big recession on Brexit. Farmer Jones must be getting a bit old by now.

TonyE · October 2017

Ishmael_Z said:

foxinsoxuk said:

Freggles said:
So after the jubilant crowing by Leavers that the economy was strong and investment flowing despite the referendum result, it turns out that as predicted we have taken a massive hit.
Boris has screwed the country for his own ambitions
It is beginning to look like Project Fear was only wrong in the timing.

Wrong in the timing = wrong for all practical purposes. Just as, if you say to every patient you see this week "you are going to die," your prognosis success rate will eventually hit 100%.

It's not being outside the EU that is causing the issue - it's the difficulty of the negotiations. Again, this is what article 50 was designed to do, scare the hell out of the country contemplating leaving. Before Art 50 the deadline uncertainty would not have existed, and the process would have been potentially open ended. The EU acted to make it more difficult to leave in the Lisbon treaty, which was why Britain was desperate to sign it despite having offered a referendum on its original text in 2005.

rkrkrk · October 2017

YBarddCwsc said:

I am looking forward to your explanation of the cost of a National Care Service at 3 billion pounds.

Let’s just take one aspect of this. There are 300,000 people in residential care. The typical cost of care home fees is 30,000 pa, though cost of dementia treatment is substantially more.
Unless you have assets more than 23,200, you will pay the fees yourself. Most people pay the fees.

Multiply the two numbers together, and see if you can get an answer less than 3 billion.

This is just one small part of the care budget, yet it already exceeds by a huge margin the cost assigned to the creation of an entire National Care Service in the Labour Manifesto.

I did work out the figures at the time, but I reckoned the actual cost of creating a National Care Service providing what Labour said it would was about 18 billion pounds a year.

Labour's manifesto said they would:
place a maximum limit on lifetime personal contributions to care costs,
raise the asset threshold below which people are entitled to state
support, and provide free end of life care.

Without knowing what those maximum limits are, or what the asset threshold would be raised to - I don't understand how you can make a costing. But 18bn/year sounds far too high.

The Dilnot Report estimated their proposal of capping personal costs and raising asset threshold would cost 1.7bn/year, rising to 3.6bn/year by 2025/26.

So Labour setting aside 3bn/year and leaving themselves flexibility on how high the cap would be and what the asset threshold is seems reasonable.

https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/sites/default/files/field/field_publication_file/briefing-dilnot-commission-social-care-jul11.pdf

NickPalmer · October 2017

Elliot said:

Has Starmer even decided whether we should stay in the single market yet? Starmer looks vetter because he is avoiding making any choices and being in opposition lets him get away with it.

As Corbyn has said, the Government should sort themselves out or make way for Labour to do the job. As long as they don't, there is no reason why Starmer should pin himself to any particular position in mid-negotiation, and it would be bad opposition tactics to do so.

The Conservatives own these negotiations until they give up. Live with it.

Morris_Dancer · October 2017

Mr. Palmer, but he has pinned himself to a position. He's against no deal, regardless of what 'deal' the EU offers. Starmer's position is to accept what the EU is willing to offer.

SouthamObserver · October 2017

Elliot said:

SouthamObserver said:

ydoethur said:

OldKingCole said:

Morris_Dancer said:
Good morning, everyone.

A rather sad political situation we have. And the alternative is worse.
+1 (almost!!!)
Not sure the alternative is worse, just not a lot better. Another bit of Cameron’s dreadful legacy; smashing the third party alternative.
No, Corbyn is definitely worse. He's more dishonest, more stupid and less experienced.

On Corbyn Dishonesty, stupidity and lack of experience, for sure. But who would I rather have doing the Brexit negotiations - Davis or Starmer? Well, there's no contest there. Sir Keir puts the work in, as opposed to the Minister for Winging It. Thornberry or Johnson, the former, just. Hammond beats McDonnell, but it's getting close; and Rudd is obviously ahead of Abbott. As for the rest, it's pretty much nip and tuck. The one difference is that May is picking from a full team; Corbyn has decided he doesn't want to.

Has Starmer even decided whether we should stay in the single market yet? Starmer looks vetter because he is avoiding making any choices and being in opposition lets him get away with it.

Starmer is on top of his brief. Davis is still learning his.

williamglenn · October 2017

Morris_Dancer said:
Mr. Palmer, but he has pinned himself to a position. He's against no deal, regardless of what 'deal' the EU offers. Starmer's position is to accept what the EU is willing to offer.

The difference is that for the EU, no deal really is better than a bad deal, so threatening it invites it.

Roger · October 2017

foxinsoxuk said:

Freggles said:
So after the jubilant crowing by Leavers that the economy was strong and investment flowing despite the referendum result, it turns out that as predicted we have taken a massive hit.
Boris has screwed the country for his own ambitions
It is beginning to look like Project Fear was only wrong in the timing.

A most pessimistic assessment from Dominic Grieve on radio this morning. The poor in particular are in for a very uncomfortable ride he believes. When this dismal affair reaches its conclusion there are certain politicians who should be lined up against a wall and shot.

TheScreamingEagles · October 2017

SouthamObserver said:

Elliot said:

SouthamObserver said:

ydoethur said:

OldKingCole said:

Morris_Dancer said:
Good morning, everyone.

A rather sad political situation we have. And the alternative is worse.
+1 (almost!!!)
Not sure the alternative is worse, just not a lot better. Another bit of Cameron’s dreadful legacy; smashing the third party alternative.
No, Corbyn is definitely worse. He's more dishonest, more stupid and less experienced.

On Corbyn Dishonesty, stupidity and lack of experience, for sure. But who would I rather have doing the Brexit negotiations - Davis or Starmer? Well, there's no contest there. Sir Keir puts the work in, as opposed to the Minister for Winging It. Thornberry or Johnson, the former, just. Hammond beats McDonnell, but it's getting close; and Rudd is obviously ahead of Abbott. As for the rest, it's pretty much nip and tuck. The one difference is that May is picking from a full team; Corbyn has decided he doesn't want to.

Has Starmer even decided whether we should stay in the single market yet? Starmer looks vetter because he is avoiding making any choices and being in opposition lets him get away with it.

Starmer is on top of his brief. Davis is still learning his.

All because David Davis is a bit naive, he really did get high on his own product.

https://twitter.com/DavidDavisMP/status/735770073822961664

YBarddCwsc · October 2017

rkrkrk said:

YBarddCwsc said:

I am looking forward to your explanation of the cost of a National Care Service at 3 billion pounds.

Let’s just take one aspect of this. There are 300,000 people in residential care. The typical cost of care home fees is 30,000 pa, though cost of dementia treatment is substantially more.
Unless you have assets more than 23,200, you will pay the fees yourself. Most people pay the fees.

Multiply the two numbers together, and see if you can get an answer less than 3 billion.

This is just one small part of the care budget, yet it already exceeds by a huge margin the cost assigned to the creation of an entire National Care Service in the Labour Manifesto.

I did work out the figures at the time, but I reckoned the actual cost of creating a National Care Service providing what Labour said it would was about 18 billion pounds a year.
Labour's manifesto said they would:
place a maximum limit on lifetime personal contributions to care costs,
raise the asset threshold below which people are entitled to state
support, and provide free end of life care.

Without knowing what those maximum limits are, or what the asset threshold would be raised to - I don't understand how you can make a costing. But 18bn/year sounds far too high.

The Dilnot Report estimated their proposal of capping personal costs and raising asset threshold would cost 1.7bn/year, rising to 3.6bn/year by 2025/26.

So Labour setting aside 3bn/year and leaving themselves flexibility on how high the cap would be and what the asset threshold is seems reasonable.

https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/sites/default/files/field/field_publication_file/briefing-dilnot-commission-social-care-jul11.pdf

The 3 billion pound figure could be raised by putting ~ 0.5 p on income tax.

That is such a tiny, tiny amount. No-one would notice it.

Does it even sound plausible that the problems in our care service could be solved by such a tiny amount ?

If so, why didn’t Blair do it? Or Brown do it? Or Cameron do it? Or the Coalition do it?

The roots of the Dementia Tax go back a long way -- as I pointed out, the phrase was coined by the Alzheimer’s society in 2007. All these politicians didn’t realise the problem could be fixed by spending a tiny amount of money?

It is a fairy story to think problems as substantial, severe and growing as our ageing population can be solved in an easy way without pain. I am afraid there were a lot of fairy stories in the costings of the Labour Party manifesto.

I speak as someone whose mother passed away from dementia, and I can tell you the presence system (which goes back to Blair) is unbearably wicked & cruel. I’d like to see a National Care Service.

But, we sure as hell won’t get one if you think it will only cost 0.5 p on everyone’s income tax.

SouthamObserver · October 2017

Morris_Dancer said:
Mr. Palmer, but he has pinned himself to a position. He's against no deal, regardless of what 'deal' the EU offers. Starmer's position is to accept what the EU is willing to offer.

Given what No Deal involves, no sane person would support it. The difference between the Brexit negotiations and most others is that id they go wrong there is no reversion to the status quo: the UK not only reverts to a WTO tariffs relationship with the EU, but also sees itself on the outside of hundreds of international agreements covering everything from the transportation of nuclear material to the air travel. No Deal is not a credible position. And if your position is not credible, then it is not a negotiating strategy.

tlg86 · October 2017

TheScreamingEagles said:

Elliot said:

Freggles said:

Elliot said:

Freggles said:
So after the jubilant crowing by Leavers that the economy was strong and investment flowing despite the referendum result, it turns out that as predicted we have taken a massive hit.
Boris has screwed the country for his own ambitions
Sorry, what is the massive hit? I can't see anything major on Google news.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/10/15/britains-missing-billions-revised-figures-reveal-uk-490bn-poorer/
kle4 said:

Freggles said:

kle4 said:

Pong said:

Dura_Ace said:

Pong said:

DecrepitJohnL said:
The budget will be fun if the Telegraph is right about the budget hammering higher rate tax-payers who will all immediately leave the country (or was that just CCHQ spin to scare people off voting Labour?). Not to worry -- the first rule of budget leaks a month in advance is the Treasury is flying a kite.
The comments under the online article are fantastic;

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/15/philip-hammond-mulling-new-age-tax-raid-older-workers-budget/
As soon as it gets branded with a snappy epithet of the form 'XXX Tax' it's fucked.

Maybe 'Wrinkle Tax'?
The "dementia tax" was truly brilliant.

I mean, taxing dementia?

Callous f*ckers. Who could vote for that?
It was a good name. Puts bedroom tax to shame. (Even better than death tax too)

Both decent ideas though.
The Nana Tax

The Grandma Tax

We're those real other taxes or alternate names for the dementia tax? Neither really has that immediate visceral reaction that, (labelling) taxing dementia does.
Trying to predict what the tabloids/Labour would call a tax break for younger people / tax hike for older people.
I can't read behind the paywall. The opening paragraph suggests a longer term statistical revision rather than a change due to Brexit. Is there more below the line?
Yes, see the bit about FDI.

https://twitter.com/ChukaUmunna/status/919693897525350400

LOL! So the ONS messed up the stats BEFORE the referendum. Conveniently for the government, the mess up showed the country doing better than it actually was.

Ishmael_Z · October 2017

Jezza reassuringly loopy this AM

"Robots in the workplace should be owned and controlled by workers rather than bosses, Jeremy Corbyn will suggest.
The Labour leader, who has previously warned of the risk to jobs of automation, will say new technology has led to "a more rapacious and exploitative form of capitalism".
He will also suggest "gig economy" firms like Uber could be replaced by co-operatives.
Drivers would collectively agree their own pay and conditions, he will say."

I imagine he has in mind a "Robot Wars" set up where for every robot there are two human beings controlling it via radio.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41614820

foxinsoxuk · October 2017

tlg86 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Elliot said:

Freggles said:

Elliot said:

Freggles said:
So after the jubilant crowing by Leavers that the economy was strong and investment flowing despite the referendum result, it turns out that as predicted we have taken a massive hit.
Boris has screwed the country for his own ambitions
Sorry, what is the massive hit? I can't see anything major on Google news.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/10/15/britains-missing-billions-revised-figures-reveal-uk-490bn-poorer/
kle4 said:

Freggles said:

kle4 said:

Pong said:

Dura_Ace said:

Pong said:

DecrepitJohnL said:
The budget will be fun if the Telegraph is right about the budget hammering higher rate tax-payers who will all immediately leave the country (or was that just CCHQ spin to scare people off voting Labour?). Not to worry -- the first rule of budget leaks a month in advance is the Treasury is flying a kite.
The comments under the online article are fantastic;

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/15/philip-hammond-mulling-new-age-tax-raid-older-workers-budget/
As soon as it gets branded with a snappy epithet of the form 'XXX Tax' it's fucked.

Maybe 'Wrinkle Tax'?
The "dementia tax" was truly brilliant.

I mean, taxing dementia?

Callous f*ckers. Who could vote for that?
It was a good name. Puts bedroom tax to shame. (Even better than death tax too)

Both decent ideas though.
The Nana Tax

The Grandma Tax

We're those real other taxes or alternate names for the dementia tax? Neither really has that immediate visceral reaction that, (labelling) taxing dementia does.
Trying to predict what the tabloids/Labour would call a tax break for younger people / tax hike for older people.
I can't read behind the paywall. The opening paragraph suggests a longer term statistical revision rather than a change due to Brexit. Is there more below the line?
Yes, see the bit about FDI.

https://twitter.com/ChukaUmunna/status/919693897525350400
LOL! So the ONS messed up the stats BEFORE the referendum. Conveniently for the government, the mess up showed the country doing better than it actually was.

Where does it say that?

The swing away from FDI was post referendum.

Alanbrooke · October 2017

TheScreamingEagles said:

Elliot said:

Freggles said:

Elliot said:

Freggles said:
So after the jubilant crowing by Leavers that the economy was strong and investment flowing despite the referendum result, it turns out that as predicted we have taken a massive hit.
Boris has screwed the country for his own ambitions
Sorry, what is the massive hit? I can't see anything major on Google news.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/10/15/britains-missing-billions-revised-figures-reveal-uk-490bn-poorer/
kle4 said:

Freggles said:

kle4 said:

Pong said:

Dura_Ace said:

Pong said:

DecrepitJohnL said:
The budget will be fun if the Telegraph is right about the budget hammering higher rate tax-payers who will all immediately leave the country (or was that just CCHQ spin to scare people off voting Labour?). Not to worry -- the first rule of budget leaks a month in advance is the Treasury is flying a kite.
The comments under the online article are fantastic;

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/15/philip-hammond-mulling-new-age-tax-raid-older-workers-budget/
As soon as it gets branded with a snappy epithet of the form 'XXX Tax' it's fucked.

Maybe 'Wrinkle Tax'?
The "dementia tax" was truly brilliant.

I mean, taxing dementia?

Callous f*ckers. Who could vote for that?
It was a good name. Puts bedroom tax to shame. (Even better than death tax too)

Both decent ideas though.
The Nana Tax

The Grandma Tax

We're those real other taxes or alternate names for the dementia tax? Neither really has that immediate visceral reaction that, (labelling) taxing dementia does.
Trying to predict what the tabloids/Labour would call a tax break for younger people / tax hike for older people.
I can't read behind the paywall. The opening paragraph suggests a longer term statistical revision rather than a change due to Brexit. Is there more below the line?
Yes, see the bit about FDI.

https://twitter.com/ChukaUmunna/status/919693897525350400

imagine, Osborne consistemtly underfunding ONS has come a cropper

who'd a thunk it ?

Jonathan · October 2017

Looks at dire state of politics. Holds head in hands. Sighs. Gets busy with something else.

SouthamObserver · October 2017

tlg86 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Elliot said:

Freggles said:

Elliot said:

Freggles said:
So after the jubilant crowing by Leavers that the economy was strong and investment flowing despite the referendum result, it turns out that as predicted we have taken a massive hit.
Boris has screwed the country for his own ambitions
Sorry, what is the massive hit? I can't see anything major on Google news.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/10/15/britains-missing-billions-revised-figures-reveal-uk-490bn-poorer/
kle4 said:

Freggles said:

kle4 said:

Pong said:

Dura_Ace said:

Pong said:

DecrepitJohnL said:
The budget will be fun if the Telegraph is right about the budget hammering higher rate tax-payers who will all immediately leave the country (or was that just CCHQ spin to scare people off voting Labour?). Not to worry -- the first rule of budget leaks a month in advance is the Treasury is flying a kite.
The comments under the online article are fantastic;

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/15/philip-hammond-mulling-new-age-tax-raid-older-workers-budget/
As soon as it gets branded with a snappy epithet of the form 'XXX Tax' it's fucked.

Maybe 'Wrinkle Tax'?
The "dementia tax" was truly brilliant.

I mean, taxing dementia?

Callous f*ckers. Who could vote for that?
It was a good name. Puts bedroom tax to shame. (Even better than death tax too)

Both decent ideas though.
The Nana Tax

The Grandma Tax

We're those real other taxes or alternate names for the dementia tax? Neither really has that immediate visceral reaction that, (labelling) taxing dementia does.
Trying to predict what the tabloids/Labour would call a tax break for younger people / tax hike for older people.
I can't read behind the paywall. The opening paragraph suggests a longer term statistical revision rather than a change due to Brexit. Is there more below the line?
Yes, see the bit about FDI.

https://twitter.com/ChukaUmunna/status/919693897525350400
LOL! So the ONS messed up the stats BEFORE the referendum. Conveniently for the government, the mess up showed the country doing better than it actually was.

This is the most worrying figure - FDI: from +£120bn in 1H 2016 to -£25bn in 1H 2017.

TheScreamingEagles · October 2017

Alanbrooke said:
imagine, Osborne consistemtly underfunding ONS has come a cropper

who'd a thunk it ?

I remember the days when you used to criticise Ozzy for not reducing the deficit quick enough.

When George Osborne walks on water, you'll be criticising him for not being able to swim.

tlg86 · October 2017

foxinsoxuk said:

tlg86 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Elliot said:

Freggles said:

Elliot said:

Freggles said:
So after the jubilant crowing by Leavers that the economy was strong and investment flowing despite the referendum result, it turns out that as predicted we have taken a massive hit.
Boris has screwed the country for his own ambitions
Sorry, what is the massive hit? I can't see anything major on Google news.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/10/15/britains-missing-billions-revised-figures-reveal-uk-490bn-poorer/
kle4 said:

Freggles said:

kle4 said:

Pong said:

Dura_Ace said:

Pong said:

DecrepitJohnL said:
The budget will be fun if the Telegraph is right about the budget hammering higher rate tax-payers who will all immediately leave the country (or was that just CCHQ spin to scare people off voting Labour?). Not to worry -- the first rule of budget leaks a month in advance is the Treasury is flying a kite.
The comments under the online article are fantastic;

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/15/philip-hammond-mulling-new-age-tax-raid-older-workers-budget/
As soon as it gets branded with a snappy epithet of the form 'XXX Tax' it's fucked.

Maybe 'Wrinkle Tax'?
The "dementia tax" was truly brilliant.

I mean, taxing dementia?

Callous f*ckers. Who could vote for that?
It was a good name. Puts bedroom tax to shame. (Even better than death tax too)

Both decent ideas though.
The Nana Tax

The Grandma Tax

We're those real other taxes or alternate names for the dementia tax? Neither really has that immediate visceral reaction that, (labelling) taxing dementia does.
Trying to predict what the tabloids/Labour would call a tax break for younger people / tax hike for older people.
I can't read behind the paywall. The opening paragraph suggests a longer term statistical revision rather than a change due to Brexit. Is there more below the line?
Yes, see the bit about FDI.

https://twitter.com/ChukaUmunna/status/919693897525350400
LOL! So the ONS messed up the stats BEFORE the referendum. Conveniently for the government, the mess up showed the country doing better than it actually was.
Where does it say that?

The swing away from FDI was post referendum.

"It implies that the UK's underlying position going into the referendum was much weaker than anybody realised."

Roger · October 2017

TheScreamingEagles said:

Elliot said:

Freggles said:

Elliot said:

Freggles said:
So after the jubilant crowing by Leavers that the economy was strong and investment flowing despite the referendum result, it turns out that as predicted we have taken a massive hit.
Boris has screwed the country for his own ambitions
Sorry, what is the massive hit? I can't see anything major on Google news.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/10/15/britains-missing-billions-revised-figures-reveal-uk-490bn-poorer/
kle4 said:

Freggles said:

kle4 said:

Pong said:

Dura_Ace said:

Pong said:

DecrepitJohnL said:
The budget will be fun if the Telegraph is right about the budget hammering higher rate tax-payers who will all immediately leave the country (or was that just CCHQ spin to scare people off voting Labour?). Not to worry -- the first rule of budget leaks a month in advance is the Treasury is flying a kite.
The comments under the online article are fantastic;

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/15/philip-hammond-mulling-new-age-tax-raid-older-workers-budget/
As soon as it gets branded with a snappy epithet of the form 'XXX Tax' it's fucked.

Maybe 'Wrinkle Tax'?
The "dementia tax" was truly brilliant.

I mean, taxing dementia?

Callous f*ckers. Who could vote for that?
It was a good name. Puts bedroom tax to shame. (Even better than death tax too)

Both decent ideas though.
The Nana Tax

The Grandma Tax

We're those real other taxes or alternate names for the dementia tax? Neither really has that immediate visceral reaction that, (labelling) taxing dementia does.
Trying to predict what the tabloids/Labour would call a tax break for younger people / tax hike for older people.
I can't read behind the paywall. The opening paragraph suggests a longer term statistical revision rather than a change due to Brexit. Is there more below the line?
Yes, see the bit about FDI.

https://twitter.com/ChukaUmunna/status/919693897525350400

Oh dear! No wonder everyone's cheering themselves up on Harvey Weinstein.

TheScreamingEagles · October 2017

tlg86 said:

LOL! So the ONS messed up the stats BEFORE the referendum. Conveniently for the government, the mess up showed the country doing better than it actually was.

Forget the half trillion bound error and look at the FDI figures.

TheScreamingEagles · October 2017

Jonathan said:
Looks at dire state of politics. Holds head in hands. Sighs. Gets busy with something else.

I'm heading out to Canada next week to seal the deal on a house there, is one of my contingencies for when Brexit becomes a shit show and Corbyn as PM.

Morris_Dancer · October 2017

Mr. Observer, it's almost as if endlessly throwing powers and money at the EU, integrating more and not asking the electorate for 40 years, and reneging upon a manifesto pledge for a referendum on Lisbon, was the political class acting in the interest of the EU and not the UK.

They've put us in a far weaker position than we should have been in, and are now bleating about how hard it is to leave. It wouldn't've been the case if they hadn't been so complicit.

Anyway, I agree no deal is a bad outcome, but it is not the worst possible result.

We also need to bear in mind that regardless of what happens (all the way from no deal to actually remaining) is only the end of Act One. The play will go on for some time afterwards.

YBarddCwsc · October 2017

TheScreamingEagles said:

Jonathan said:
Looks at dire state of politics. Holds head in hands. Sighs. Gets busy with something else.
I'm heading out to Canada next week to seal the deal on a house there, is one of my contingencies for when Brexit becomes a shit show and Corbyn as PM.

Do us all a favour and take George Osborne with you.

TOPPING · October 2017

Elliot said:

Freggles said:
So after the jubilant crowing by Leavers that the economy was strong and investment flowing despite the referendum result, it turns out that as predicted we have taken a massive hit.
Boris has screwed the country for his own ambitions
Sorry, what is the massive hit? I can't see anything major on Google news.

FDI collapsed.

Surely you must have heard those billions of pounds not being invested in the UK these past fifteen months or so?

tlg86 · October 2017

TheScreamingEagles said:

tlg86 said:

LOL! So the ONS messed up the stats BEFORE the referendum. Conveniently for the government, the mess up showed the country doing better than it actually was.
Forget the half trillion bound error and look at the FDI figures.

What we're the pre-revision numbers?

CD13 · October 2017

Mr Observer,

Starmer's position is to accept what the EU offer as long as we're in the single market. I nearly wrote 'common market' because that's what I voted for in 1975, and what many others did. The people who deny that tend to be those yet to be born then.

With Labour's encouragement, the EU may propose a deal where we stay in the single market as long as we accept the status quo of 2016. To soften the blow they'll call it 'associate membership' but it will mean no change. I suspect the Europhiles will be overjoyed and ask for a referendum on the' deal'.

Transparent, and it will fool no one, but politicians have a jaundiced view of the voters' intelligence.

TheScreamingEagles · October 2017

Jesus Christ, Young Labour have a worse grasp of history than Morris Dancer.

https://twitter.com/wallaceme/status/919655495505530881

https://twitter.com/wallaceme/status/919656961628688386

JosiasJessop · October 2017

SouthamObserver said:

Morris_Dancer said:
Mr. Palmer, but he has pinned himself to a position. He's against no deal, regardless of what 'deal' the EU offers. Starmer's position is to accept what the EU is willing to offer.
Given what No Deal involves, no sane person would support it. The difference between the Brexit negotiations and most others is that id they go wrong there is no reversion to the status quo: the UK not only reverts to a WTO tariffs relationship with the EU, but also sees itself on the outside of hundreds of international agreements covering everything from the transportation of nuclear material to the air travel. No Deal is not a credible position. And if your position is not credible, then it is not a negotiating strategy.

Ahem. I'm sane (I think!), and 'No Deal' would certainly be better than some scenarios that could realistically transpire. Having said that, much would depend on the competence of the government if there was no deal.

Oh dear ...

TheScreamingEagles · October 2017

tlg86 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

tlg86 said:

LOL! So the ONS messed up the stats BEFORE the referendum. Conveniently for the government, the mess up showed the country doing better than it actually was.
Forget the half trillion bound error and look at the FDI figures.
What we're the pre-revision numbers?

Apparently that's one of the few things they got right, the numbers at least.

What they got wrong was the money actually invested in H2 2016 most of it had been committed in advance of the referendum

SouthamObserver · October 2017

Morris_Dancer said:
Mr. Observer, it's almost as if endlessly throwing powers and money at the EU, integrating more and not asking the electorate for 40 years, and reneging upon a manifesto pledge for a referendum on Lisbon, was the political class acting in the interest of the EU and not the UK.

They've put us in a far weaker position than we should have been in, and are now bleating about how hard it is to leave. It wouldn't've been the case if they hadn't been so complicit.

Anyway, I agree no deal is a bad outcome, but it is not the worst possible result.

We also need to bear in mind that regardless of what happens (all the way from no deal to actually remaining) is only the end of Act One. The play will go on for some time afterwards.

Out of interest, why do you think the political class would prefer to act in the interests of the EU rather than the UK? Is it just possible that businesses made decisions on supply chains and just in time solutions because they worked best and provided the most opportunities, and that having a streamlined customs process with no red tape facilitated that? I know it's a long shot, but it may not have been treason.

https://flipchartfairytales.wordpress.com/2017/10/13/no-deal-brexit-its-already-too-late/amp/

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » After the weekend break welcome back to the coalition of chaos

Comments

Categories