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Jeremy Corbyn says the "Tory Brexit agenda... would plunge Britain into a Trump style race to the bottom" on workers' rights and corporate taxes.
For today at least, Thanks Jezza and RIchard Nabavi
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Yes, exactly right. You'd have thought that some of the more sane Labour MPs and supporters would ask themselves - 'Hang on, what if we actually get into government with this programme?'SeanT said:The most incredible thing is that he clearly means it, and he and McDonnell would clearly try to enact it - and most of the parliamentary Labour party knows that it is insane, and will not work. Yet the MPs sit there inanely grinning, and singing Oh Jeremy Corbyn.
Gawd elp us.0 -
Homes fit for human habitation
What a bastard0 -
Nationalising utilities or rent controls =/= Venezuela and Cuba.Richard_Nabavi said:
Yep, it's completely unreconstructed mid-twentieth century far-left stuff. Venezuela and Cuba are the most successful models of the policies being put into practice.FrancisUrquhart said:Its the Marxist doctrine of all inequality is a result of oppression by the bosses.
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bigjohnowls said:
Homes fit for human habitation
What a bastard
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Taxing undeveloped land
Again what a swine when there are perfectly good doorways on our streets for the homeless0 -
Cyclefree fails to mention that the pound fell 14% against the Euro in the last week of June 2016. No mention of "run on the pound" then. It is only a run on the pound if it happens under a Labour government.
The biggest devaluations in the last 30 years took place under a Tory government. March 1990 and June 2016.0 -
Corbyn is much worse than Trump.FrancisUrquhart said:Corbyn = left wing Trump
Well at least it will be easier to get across the Channel on a raft than it is to reach Florida.Richard_Nabavi said:
Yep, it's completely unreconstructed mid-twentieth century far-left stuff. Venezuela and Cuba are the most successful models of the policies being put into practice.FrancisUrquhart said:Its the Marxist doctrine of all inequality is a result of oppression by the bosses.
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Does anyone promise homes not fit for such? I assume there's more to it,or else it's something no one would ever argue against, meaning a nonsense policy.bigjohnowls said:Homes fit for human habitation
What a bastard
We do need to get developers to build quicker on land they have permission for though, they sit on it fir years then go after more profitable sites.0 -
The so-called Labour moderates are utterly spineless. No decent person would remain in the Labour Party.SeanT said:The most incredible thing is that he clearly means it, and he and McDonnell would clearly try to enact it - and most of the parliamentary Labour party knows that it is insane, and will not work. Yet the MPs sit there inanely grinning, and singing Oh Jeremy Corbyn.
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The stuff he is saying about urban regeneration and limits on what councils can do makes me concerned that he won't be able to build enough homes...0
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March 1990? Thought it was Sept 1992?surbiton said:Cyclefree fails to mention that the pound fell 14% against the Euro in the last week of June 2016. No mention of "run on the pound" then. It is only a run on the pound if it happens under a Labour government.
The biggest devaluations in the last 30 years took place under a Tory government. March 1990 and June 2016.0 -
Tories voted down a requirement on landlords to ensure rental houses fit for human habitationkle4 said:
Does anyone promise homes not fit for such? I assume there's more to it,or else it's something no one would ever argue against, meaning a nonsense policy.bigjohnowls said:Homes fit for human habitation
What a bastard0 -
In that case, is Labour going to try and catch up with the Tories?surbiton said:Cyclefree fails to mention that the pound fell 14% against the Euro in the last week of June 2016. No mention of "run on the pound" then. It is only a run on the pound if it happens under a Labour government.
The biggest devaluations in the last 30 years took place under a Tory government. March 1990 and June 2016.0 -
Decent people want homes fit for human habitation.glw said:
The so-called Labour moderates are utterly spineless. No decent person would remain in the Labour Party.SeanT said:The most incredible thing is that he clearly means it, and he and McDonnell would clearly try to enact it - and most of the parliamentary Labour party knows that it is insane, and will not work. Yet the MPs sit there inanely grinning, and singing Oh Jeremy Corbyn.
Tories is the party for those who do not.0 -
They'll give it a good go.Beverley_C said:
In that case, is Labour going to try and catch up with the Tories?surbiton said:Cyclefree fails to mention that the pound fell 14% against the Euro in the last week of June 2016. No mention of "run on the pound" then. It is only a run on the pound if it happens under a Labour government.
The biggest devaluations in the last 30 years took place under a Tory government. March 1990 and June 2016.0 -
Corbyn is the UK Sanders (except even more left-wing), Trump is Farage crossed with Boris in UK termsglw said:
Corbyn is much worse than Trump.FrancisUrquhart said:Corbyn = left wing Trump
Well at least it will be easier to get across the Channel on a raft than it is to reach Florida.Richard_Nabavi said:
Yep, it's completely unreconstructed mid-twentieth century far-left stuff. Venezuela and Cuba are the most successful models of the policies being put into practice.FrancisUrquhart said:Its the Marxist doctrine of all inequality is a result of oppression by the bosses.
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Then I stand corrected and take it back but what did that mean - is it because they think they already are fit even if not nice? It's a phrase that could mean a lot is all, like when under equalities reasonable accommodation must be made and it's hard to know what that always means. Assuming it means a defined basic standard it doesn't sound terrible.bigjohnowls said:
Tories voted down a requirement on landlords to ensure rental houses fit for human habitationkle4 said:
Does anyone promise homes not fit for such? I assume there's more to it,or else it's something no one would ever argue against, meaning a nonsense policy.bigjohnowls said:Homes fit for human habitation
What a bastard0 -
Most of Corbynism boils down to the concept of operating a business* for the sake of the workers. Not the owners, not the founders, not the customers, not the public in general, but the non-management workers.
* To be clear: any business at all.0 -
Protectionism, blaming foreign capitalists, price controls, rent controls, nationalisation with compensation paid in some kind of government 'bond', proposing to pay different rates of compensation depending on whether they like the institution holding the shares, stirring up class hatred over an accidental fire, abusing and driving out moderates within their own party, claiming that the party is the people, visceral anti-Americanism, decisions taken by a shadowy cabal which includes a Stalin-apologist, etc etc.rkrkrk said:
Nationalising utilities or rent controls =/= Venezuela and Cuba.Richard_Nabavi said:
Yep, it's completely unreconstructed mid-twentieth century far-left stuff. Venezuela and Cuba are the most successful models of the policies being put into practice.FrancisUrquhart said:Its the Marxist doctrine of all inequality is a result of oppression by the bosses.
Pretty much textbook Chavez, although as far as I know Chavez didn't actually praise Stalin's policies in the Great Terror period.0 -
And with no pesky EU interference, Comrade Corbyn will be able to take back full control.foxinsoxuk said:
Not seizing power. Elected by the British people.SeanT said:
I confess I am now genuinely worried about Corbyn seizing power.stevef said:
If all that happened, "Oh! Jeremy Corbyn" would be sung with a very different meaning.david_herdson said:
Cyclefree does spell out what a Corbyn government might have to do to prevent a flight of capital: capital controls, temporary bank closures, limits on how much people are allowed to take out, a tax on all savings held in banks in the UK above a certain limit, conversion of savings into bonds or shares, seizure of savings above a certain limit.stevef said:Corbyn and Co claim that his government will not be traditional Labour, but what is a traditional Labour government? All Labour governments have been different from each other.
Corbynism is not radical and it is not new. It is old style hard leftism. It stole Blairs "Many not the Few " slogan from 1997, and Corbyn did not have the guts to have a hard left manifesto in 2017.
No, bankers and the City should not frustrate the will of the People by going on strike against Labour governments.. Nor should trade unions be allowed to have political strikes.
What exactly will a Corbyn government do to prevent a flight of capital, or a run on the Pound? Spell it out.
And how will a government led by Corbyn be able to provide 1940s-70s levels of state socialism on Thatcherite/Blairite levels of personal tax? Explain?
And the second question answers itself. You can't provide that level of socialism on current levels of tax, so tax would have to rise. Labour claims that it can do it through corporation tax (which would feed through to consumers or pay settlements), and higher levels of income tax. In reality, I suspect that they'd fall short of their anticipated return, taxes would be put up further (beyond Laffer curve effectiveness), government receipts would still be short and borrowing, interest rates and inflation would rise, while the Pound slumped.
How does one - ahem - go about moving capital abroad?0 -
Erm. I'm pretty sure this already exists. Correct me if I am wrong.kle4 said:
Then I stand corrected and take it back but what did that mean - is it because they think they already are fit even if not nice? It's a phrase that could mean a lot is all, like when under equalities reasonable accommodation must be made and it's hard to know what that always means. Assuming it means a defined basic standard it doesn't sound terrible.bigjohnowls said:
Tories voted down a requirement on landlords to ensure rental houses fit for human habitationkle4 said:
Does anyone promise homes not fit for such? I assume there's more to it,or else it's something no one would ever argue against, meaning a nonsense policy.bigjohnowls said:Homes fit for human habitation
What a bastard
Indeed, iirc there's been a spate of TV reality documentaries where bad properties are inspected by council housing officers.0 -
That and Brexit.SeanT said:Theresa May. Theresa fucking May.
She did this. Her stupid, crappy election has put this crazy old Trot a few seats from power.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/sep/27/brexit-labour-tories-corbynites-right-labour0 -
Big up the FE sector. Want a highly paid full time job. Not a ZHC.0
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I assumed it must already exist hence why someone might oppose the fit for human habitation thing as unnecessary not because they are a piece of scum, but big John says it does not?rottenborough said:
Erm. I'm pretty sure this already exists. Correct me if I am wrong.kle4 said:
Then I stand corrected and take it back but what did that mean - is it because they think they already are fit even if not nice? It's a phrase that could mean a lot is all, like when under equalities reasonable accommodation must be made and it's hard to know what that always means. Assuming it means a defined basic standard it doesn't sound terrible.bigjohnowls said:
Tories voted down a requirement on landlords to ensure rental houses fit for human habitationkle4 said:
Does anyone promise homes not fit for such? I assume there's more to it,or else it's something no one would ever argue against, meaning a nonsense policy.bigjohnowls said:Homes fit for human habitation
What a bastard
Indeed, iirc there's been a spate of TV reality documentaries where bad properties are inspected by council housing officers.0 -
Protectionism? nothing to see here gov!Richard_Nabavi said:
Protectionism, blaming foreign capitalists, price controls, rent controls, nationalisation with compensation paid in some kind of government 'bond', proposing to pay different rates of compensation depending on whether they like the institution holding the shares, stirring up class hatred over an accidental fire, abusing and driving out moderates within their own party, claiming that the party is the people,, visceral anti-Americanism, decisions taken by a shadowy cabal which includes a Stalin-apologist, etc etc.rkrkrk said:
Nationalising utilities or rent controls =/= Venezuela and Cuba.Richard_Nabavi said:
Yep, it's completely unreconstructed mid-twentieth century far-left stuff. Venezuela and Cuba are the most successful models of the policies being put into practice.FrancisUrquhart said:Its the Marxist doctrine of all inequality is a result of oppression by the bosses.
Pretty much textbook Chavez, although as far as I know Chavez didn't actually praise Stalin's policies in the Great Terror period.
https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/9130141085550264330 -
Hard to argue with this penetrating analysis.SeanT said:Theresa May. Theresa fucking May.
She did this. Her stupid, crappy election has put this crazy old Trot a few seats from power.0 -
You are sounding like a less refined version of Queen Victoria on Gladstone.SeanT said:Theresa May. Theresa fucking May.
She did this. Her stupid, crappy election has put this crazy old Trot a few seats from power.0 -
What does that add to existing legislation?bigjohnowls said:
Tories voted down a requirement on landlords to ensure rental houses fit for human habitationkle4 said:
Does anyone promise homes not fit for such? I assume there's more to it,or else it's something no one would ever argue against, meaning a nonsense policy.bigjohnowls said:Homes fit for human habitation
What a bastard0 -
Both the income tax increases and corporation tax rate were well publicised during the campaign.HYUFD said:
The Tories actually got a lower voteshare with wealthy ABs than skilled working class C2s for the first time last time and plenty of those ABs will be hit by Corbyn"s income tax rise. A large number of even average families will also be hit by Corbyn's plan to reverse Osborne's inheritance tax cutrkrkrk said:Labour's tax plans in the Manifesto were to increase income tax on those earning 80k+, a new 50p rate for those on 123k+ and raising corporation tax back to 26%.
I heard some criticism of the corporation tax rise - but I suspect Labour's line that it will still be lowest in G7, plus the fact that it is not a visible tax for most - was probably quite good at neutralising criticism...
I heard very little criticism of the top income tax increases - I suspect because the Tories know they are on to a loser on that one.
I suspect both tax rises are probably quite popular as tax rises go.
Many people do not vote necessarily vote on their own personal circumstances. Something you will not understand.0 -
Will Tory press office be releasing a shopping list of costs of all this at the end of the speech?
Or have they given up?0 -
LOL. He's on about intolerance now.
Erm, you mean like hard left activists threatening female journalists?0 -
Of course, Trump and Corbyn are very similar; they use similar rhetoric, and are similarly divisive. The protectionism is absolutely a key common feature.foxinsoxuk said:Protectionism? nothing to see here gov!
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I have no doubt they will be all over it but the one to watch is the IFSrottenborough said:Will Tory press office be releasing a shopping list of costs of all this at the end of the speech?
Or have they given up?0 -
NUJC0
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Was John Prescott asleep there0
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A Marxist Brexit?Richard_Nabavi said:
Of course, Trump and Corbyn are very similar; they use similar rhetoric, and are similarly divisive. The protectionism is absolutely a key common feature.foxinsoxuk said:Protectionism? nothing to see here gov!
Not sure this is exactly what Boris and Gove had in mind when they lit the fuse on all this.0 -
Corbyn won the 2016 local elections before May and Brexit but lost the 2017 local elections after May and Brexit.SeanT said:Theresa May. Theresa fucking May.
She did this. Her stupid, crappy election has put this crazy old Trot a few seats from power.
It was continued austerity which led to Corbyn's rise though May's dementia tax added to it0 -
Well, Castro is another hero of Corbyn... you should probably reckon on six hours.calum said:0 -
Accountability Accountability Accountability0
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No doubt there's another £100billion or so of spending to be announced yet.Richard_Nabavi said:
Well, Castro is another hero of Corbyn...calum said:0 -
Cameron is really the one to blame IMO. If he had not lost his hubristic referendum there would be no PM May and Corbyn would still be a maverick no-hoper.SeanT said:Theresa May. Theresa fucking May.
She did this. Her stupid, crappy election has put this crazy old Trot a few seats from power.0 -
No they weren't the main thing publicised was the Tories dementia tax disaster.surbiton said:
Both the income tax increases and corporation tax rate were well publicised during the campaign.HYUFD said:
The Tories actually got a lower voteshare with wealthy ABs than skilled working class C2s for the first time last time and plenty of those ABs will be hit by Corbyn"s income tax rise. A large number of even average families will also be hit by Corbyn's plan to reverse Osborne's inheritance tax cutrkrkrk said:Labour's tax plans in the Manifesto were to increase income tax on those earning 80k+, a new 50p rate for those on 123k+ and raising corporation tax back to 26%.
I heard some criticism of the corporation tax rise - but I suspect Labour's line that it will still be lowest in G7, plus the fact that it is not a visible tax for most - was probably quite good at neutralising criticism...
I heard very little criticism of the top income tax increases - I suspect because the Tories know they are on to a loser on that one.
I suspect both tax rises are probably quite popular as tax rises go.
Many people do not vote necessarily vote on their own personal circumstances. Something you will not understand.
Most people tend to vote in terms of what will boost their bank balance and their family and then their community, tax was the key reason the Tories won in 1992 for example0 -
Keep your royalties in € if you can!!!SeanT said:
Maybe. If Corbyn gets into power and is as bad as I expect, then I might have to Officially Regret my Leave vote.TheScreamingEagles said:
That and Brexit.SeanT said:Theresa May. Theresa fucking May.
She did this. Her stupid, crappy election has put this crazy old Trot a few seats from power.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/sep/27/brexit-labour-tories-corbynites-right-labour
That said, I do not believe he will seize power. He's at a high watermark now, the first conference after an election defeat that felt, extraordinarily, like a win. But he's five years from the next GE, and the Tories will cling on and hang together, simply because his agenda is so threatening.
Corbyn is 68. By the next election he will be very shopworn, and 73. The enthusiasm of his mob will have dimmed. The weird gloss will have gone.
And hopefully, by then the Tories will have dumped May and got someone electable.
But just the thought. Brrr.0 -
The Landlord and Tenant Act 1985 sets out the principal repairing requirements on landlords. Other legislation covers health and safety, protection of deposits etc.kle4 said:
I assumed it must already exist hence why someone might oppose the fit for human habitation thing as unnecessary not because they are a piece of scum, but big John says it does not?rottenborough said:
Erm. I'm pretty sure this already exists. Correct me if I am wrong.kle4 said:
Then I stand corrected and take it back but what did that mean - is it because they think they already are fit even if not nice? It's a phrase that could mean a lot is all, like when under equalities reasonable accommodation must be made and it's hard to know what that always means. Assuming it means a defined basic standard it doesn't sound terrible.bigjohnowls said:
Tories voted down a requirement on landlords to ensure rental houses fit for human habitationkle4 said:
Does anyone promise homes not fit for such? I assume there's more to it,or else it's something no one would ever argue against, meaning a nonsense policy.bigjohnowls said:Homes fit for human habitation
What a bastard
Indeed, iirc there's been a spate of TV reality documentaries where bad properties are inspected by council housing officers.0 -
What was the first £100 Bn over and above the fully costed manifesto.rottenborough said:
No doubt there's another £100billion or so of spending to be announced yet.Richard_Nabavi said:
Well, Castro is another hero of Corbyn...calum said:
Methinks its a fig box of your imagination0 -
I suppose Jezza and Trump should be classed as Stalinist with their isolationism; Farage is more a Trotskyist in his mission to spread his ideology around the globe.rottenborough said:
A Marxist Brexit?Richard_Nabavi said:
Of course, Trump and Corbyn are very similar; they use similar rhetoric, and are similarly divisive. The protectionism is absolutely a key common feature.foxinsoxuk said:Protectionism? nothing to see here gov!
Not sure this is exactly what Boris and Gove had in mind when they lit the fuse on all this.0 -
lets see if he mentions Venezuela0
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It's easy to explain:rottenborough said:LOL. He's on about intolerance now.
Erm, you mean like hard left activists threatening female journalists?
There is intolerance which is good, and to be commended. Then there is intolerance is bad, and which should be condemned. Bad intolerance should not be tolerated, whereas good intolerance should be tolerated. Intolerance can be tolerated when it comes from certain segments of society, whilst it should not be tolerated if it comes from another. All intleration from some segments of society is intolerable, whilst all intoleration from other segments should be tolerated, because their intoleration is the result of past intoleration by others. 0 -
A Brexiteer wouldn't be so unpatriotic surely?rottenborough said:
Keep your royalties in € if you can!!!SeanT said:
Maybe. If Corbyn gets into power and is as bad as I expect, then I might have to Officially Regret my Leave vote.TheScreamingEagles said:
That and Brexit.SeanT said:Theresa May. Theresa fucking May.
She did this. Her stupid, crappy election has put this crazy old Trot a few seats from power.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/sep/27/brexit-labour-tories-corbynites-right-labour
That said, I do not believe he will seize power. He's at a high watermark now, the first conference after an election defeat that felt, extraordinarily, like a win. But he's five years from the next GE, and the Tories will cling on and hang together, simply because his agenda is so threatening.
Corbyn is 68. By the next election he will be very shopworn, and 73. The enthusiasm of his mob will have dimmed. The weird gloss will have gone.
And hopefully, by then the Tories will have dumped May and got someone electable.
But just the thought. Brrr.0 -
Mrs May isn’t watching Corbyn’s speech. She’s at the cricket.0
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It probably only needs the Tories to lose around 15 seats for the Rainbow alliance to keep the Tories out of Downing Street.SeanT said:
Maybe. If Corbyn gets into power and is as bad as I expect, then I might have to Officially Regret my Leave vote.TheScreamingEagles said:
That and Brexit.SeanT said:Theresa May. Theresa fucking May.
She did this. Her stupid, crappy election has put this crazy old Trot a few seats from power.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/sep/27/brexit-labour-tories-corbynites-right-labour
That said, I do not believe he will seize power. He's at a high watermark now, the first conference after an election defeat that felt, extraordinarily, like a win. But he's five years from the next GE, and the Tories will cling on and hang together, simply because his agenda is so threatening.
Corbyn is 68. By the next election he will be very shopworn, and 73. The enthusiasm of his mob will have dimmed. The weird gloss will have gone.
And hopefully, by then the Tories will have dumped May and got someone electable.
But just the thought. Brrr.
That keeps me awake night.
A really bad night in Scotland and London for the Tories could see that happen on its own.0 -
"Fully costed" is bollocks. It didn't even cover things like the various nationalisations. The reality is Labour are expecting a victory to be met with financial chaos. You won't be getting 10% of the things Corbyn is promising.bigjohnowls said:What was the first £100 Bn over and above the fully costed manifesto.
Methinks its a fig box of your imagination
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Poor Shadsy, he's having to pay out a 20/1 and a 10/1 winner on this speech with a few other 2/1s0
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especially with the lib dems led by vince and minus the orange bookers...TheScreamingEagles said:
It probably only needs the Tories to lose around 15 seats for the Rainbow alliance to keep the Tories out of Downing Street.SeanT said:
Maybe. If Corbyn gets into power and is as bad as I expect, then I might have to Officially Regret my Leave vote.TheScreamingEagles said:
That and Brexit.SeanT said:Theresa May. Theresa fucking May.
She did this. Her stupid, crappy election has put this crazy old Trot a few seats from power.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/sep/27/brexit-labour-tories-corbynites-right-labour
That said, I do not believe he will seize power. He's at a high watermark now, the first conference after an election defeat that felt, extraordinarily, like a win. But he's five years from the next GE, and the Tories will cling on and hang together, simply because his agenda is so threatening.
Corbyn is 68. By the next election he will be very shopworn, and 73. The enthusiasm of his mob will have dimmed. The weird gloss will have gone.
And hopefully, by then the Tories will have dumped May and got someone electable.
But just the thought. Brrr.
That keeps me awake night.
A really bad night in Scotland and London for the Tories could see that happen on its own.0 -
It was not Brexit which gave Corbyn his boost it was austerity and the dementia tax.SeanT said:
Maybe. If Corbyn gets into power and is as bad as I expect, then I might have to Officially Regret my Leave vote.TheScreamingEagles said:
That and Brexit.SeanT said:Theresa May. Theresa fucking May.
She did this. Her stupid, crappy election has put this crazy old Trot a few seats from power.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/sep/27/brexit-labour-tories-corbynites-right-labour
That said, I do not believe he will seize power. He's at a high watermark now, the first conference after an election defeat that felt, extraordinarily, like a win. But he's five years from the next GE, and the Tories will cling on and hang together, simply because his agenda is so threatening.
Corbyn is 68. By the next election he will be very shopworn, and 73. The enthusiasm of his mob will have dimmed. The weird gloss will have gone.
And hopefully, by then the Tories will have dumped May and got someone electable.
But just the thought. Brrr.
If anything Brexit gave a small net boost to the Tories as they gained more former UKIP voters than Labour did.
Corbyn had the odd poll lead against Cameron and he also beat the Tories in the May 2016 local elections before Brexit
Podemos, Syriza, Bernie Sanders, Melenchon etc all have had a similar Corbyn style rise on an anti rich, anti banker and anti austerity platform without Brexit
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He didn't? What a f***ing suprise.Slackbladder said:lets see if he mentions Venezuela
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Tories can't run on competence under May (or Boris for that matter).0
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Is it too late to join the Euro
? 0 -
It seems that bigjohnowls is a good exemplar of cult of corbyn...no facts can dissuade him.0
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It would be very interesting to look in more detail at what price the SNP would exact for such an alliance. The curious feature of it is that for Labour to concede another IndyRef would mean they would potentially be colluding in their own exclusion from power for a very long time.TheScreamingEagles said:It probably only needs the Tories to lose around 15 seats for the Rainbow alliance to keep the Tories out of Downing Street.
That keeps me awake night.
A really bad night in Scotland and London for the Tories could see that happen on its own.0 -
It's difficult to be sure. Partly because they may nationalise Construction as well as utilities and appear not to be able to say whether they will simply steal these companies or pay the market rate.bigjohnowls said:
What was the first £100 Bn over and above the fully costed manifesto.rottenborough said:
No doubt there's another £100billion or so of spending to be announced yet.Richard_Nabavi said:
Well, Castro is another hero of Corbyn...calum said:
Methinks its a fig box of your imagination
How big is the construction industry? F**** enormous I would say.0 -
With respect, BJO, I don't think I'm the delusional one.bigjohnowls said:
ChristCasino_Royale said:
So, people would start keeping their money in brown envelopes and safes in their homes.david_herdson said:
Cyclefree does spell out what a Corbyn government might have to do to prevent a flight of capital: capital controls, temporary bank closures, limits on how much people are allowed to take out, a tax on all savings held in banks in the UK above a certain limit, conversion of savings into bonds or shares, seizure of savings above a certain limit.stevef said:Corbyn and Co claim that his government will not be traditional Labour, but what is a traditional Labour government? All Labour governments have been different from each other.
Corbynism is not radical and it is not new. It is old style hard leftism. It stole Blairs "Many not the Few " slogan from 1997, and Corbyn did not have the guts to have a hard left manifesto in 2017.
No, bankers and the City should not frustrate the will of the People by going on strike against Labour governments.. Nor should trade unions be allowed to have political strikes.
What exactly will a Corbyn government do to prevent a flight of capital, or a run on the Pound? Spell it out.
And how will a government led by Corbyn be able to provide 1940s-70s levels of state socialism on Thatcherite/Blairite levels of personal tax? Explain?
The next step would be to send "inspectors" into people's houses, looking for money they'd secretly stashed away.
Get a grip
i thought you were a level headed poster.
Your Prejudices are manifesting themselves in delusional meanderings lately
It's where pure socialism always ends. Its failure is always blamed on its enemies trying to undermine it, not its own extreme ideological dogma.0 -
I guess I can't convince you. But just in case (Richard_Nabavi said:
Protectionism, blaming foreign capitalists, price controls, rent controls, nationalisation with compensation paid in some kind of government 'bond', proposing to pay different rates of compensation depending on whether they like the institution holding the shares, stirring up class hatred over an accidental fire, abusing and driving out moderates within their own party, claiming that the party is the people, visceral anti-Americanism, decisions taken by a shadowy cabal which includes a Stalin-apologist, etc etc.rkrkrk said:
Nationalising utilities or rent controls =/= Venezuela and Cuba.Richard_Nabavi said:
Yep, it's completely unreconstructed mid-twentieth century far-left stuff. Venezuela and Cuba are the most successful models of the policies being put into practice.FrancisUrquhart said:Its the Marxist doctrine of all inequality is a result of oppression by the bosses.
Pretty much textbook Chavez, although as far as I know Chavez didn't actually praise Stalin's policies in the Great Terror period. ):
All countries have some elements of protectionism. Rent control is common in many countries particularly cities. Nationalised utilities the same. We've argued about it before - but I am sure he will pay fair compensation, although I accept that determining that is difficult. Not sure what you are referring to with price controls - but of course we have them already, and they too are common in many countries.
For the more subjective stuff: I think he is virulently anti-Trump and anti-recent US foreign policy (he just said in his speech we should be a candid friend to the US in his speech actually), shadowy cabal is just another way of saying group of advisers.
I have more sympathy on what you say about Grenfell - some of that has been too far I think - although from others in Labour I think.
I think he has tried hard to keep moderates in the party, grow the Labour party etc. He hasn't been kicking people out... he hasn't been imposing his candidate selections on local labour parties etc.0 -
*British publicanothernick said:
Cameron is really the one to blame IMO. If he had not lost his hubristic referendum there would be no PM May and Corbyn would still be a maverick no-hoper.SeanT said:Theresa May. Theresa fucking May.
She did this. Her stupid, crappy election has put this crazy old Trot a few seats from power.0 -
PFI alone was £50bn, depending on whether you believe the Shadow Chancellor or the Labour press release.rottenborough said:
It's difficult to be sure. Partly because they may nationalise Construction as well as utilities and appear not to be able to say whether they will simply steal these companies or pay the market rate.bigjohnowls said:
What was the first £100 Bn over and above the fully costed manifesto.rottenborough said:
No doubt there's another £100billion or so of spending to be announced yet.Richard_Nabavi said:
Well, Castro is another hero of Corbyn...calum said:
Methinks its a fig box of your imagination
How big is the construction industry? F**** enormous I would say.0 -
That sums up the complacency of Tories frankly. This stuff may happen within months.Sandpit said:Mrs May isn’t watching Corbyn’s speech. She’s at the cricket.
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Sir Humphrey requires your services.JosiasJessop said:
It's easy to explain:rottenborough said:LOL. He's on about intolerance now.
Erm, you mean like hard left activists threatening female journalists?
There is intolerance which is good, and to be commended. Then there is intolerance is bad, and which should be condemned. Bad intolerance should not be tolerated, whereas good intolerance should be tolerated. Intolerance can be tolerated when it comes from certain segments of society, whilst it should not be tolerated if it comes from another. All intleration from some segments of society is intolerable, whilst all intoleration from other segments should be tolerated, because their intoleration is the result of past intoleration by others.0 -
Dave and Nick smiling in the Downing Street rose garden all those years ago - who would have thought that would turn out to be Britain's last stable and moderate government.Scrapheap_as_was said:
especially with the lib dems led by vince and minus the orange bookers...TheScreamingEagles said:
It probably only needs the Tories to lose around 15 seats for the Rainbow alliance to keep the Tories out of Downing Street.SeanT said:
Maybe. If Corbyn gets into power and is as bad as I expect, then I might have to Officially Regret my Leave vote.TheScreamingEagles said:
That and Brexit.SeanT said:Theresa May. Theresa fucking May.
She did this. Her stupid, crappy election has put this crazy old Trot a few seats from power.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/sep/27/brexit-labour-tories-corbynites-right-labour
That said, I do not believe he will seize power. He's at a high watermark now, the first conference after an election defeat that felt, extraordinarily, like a win. But he's five years from the next GE, and the Tories will cling on and hang together, simply because his agenda is so threatening.
Corbyn is 68. By the next election he will be very shopworn, and 73. The enthusiasm of his mob will have dimmed. The weird gloss will have gone.
And hopefully, by then the Tories will have dumped May and got someone electable.
But just the thought. Brrr.
That keeps me awake night.
A really bad night in Scotland and London for the Tories could see that happen on its own.0 -
Has anyone totted up the cost of all these Labour promises yet ?0
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In all of this can anyone explain to me how the vast majority of labour MP's can just keel over meekly as they lose their party to the hard left. Indeed how could they stand for election on a Corbyn manifesto0
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Corbyn is articulate and charismatic.0
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The student debt write-off was £100bn by itself.bigjohnowls said:
What was the first £100 Bn over and above the fully costed manifesto.rottenborough said:
No doubt there's another £100billion or so of spending to be announced yet.Richard_Nabavi said:
Well, Castro is another hero of Corbyn...calum said:
Methinks its a fig box of your imagination0 -
Elections can only be won from the centre ground.
Corbyn has single handedly moved the centre ground to the left of where it was but a few months ago.0 -
I did read somewhere that in that situation during the 3rd reading of the Scottish Referendum (Once in a generation, no really) Bill an amendment would be put down and pass that would make George Cunningham blush.Richard_Nabavi said:
It would be very interesting to look in more detail at what price the SNP would exact for such an alliance. The curious feature of it is that for Labour to concede another IndyRef would mean they would potentially be colluding in their own exclusion from power for a very long time.TheScreamingEagles said:It probably only needs the Tories to lose around 15 seats for the Rainbow alliance to keep the Tories out of Downing Street.
That keeps me awake night.
A really bad night in Scotland and London for the Tories could see that happen on its own.0 -
If Corbyn goes on long enough, maybe he'll eventually say Rocket Man too.TheScreamingEagles said:Poor Shadsy, he's having to pay out a 20/1 and a 10/1 winner on this speech with a few other 2/1s
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Good thing he didn't promise it then!david_herdson said:
The student debt write-off was £100bn by itself.bigjohnowls said:
What was the first £100 Bn over and above the fully costed manifesto.rottenborough said:
No doubt there's another £100billion or so of spending to be announced yet.Richard_Nabavi said:
Well, Castro is another hero of Corbyn...calum said:
Methinks its a fig box of your imagination0 -
Didnt promise that though as you well knowdavid_herdson said:
The student debt write-off was £100bn by itself.bigjohnowls said:
What was the first £100 Bn over and above the fully costed manifesto.rottenborough said:
No doubt there's another £100billion or so of spending to be announced yet.Richard_Nabavi said:
Well, Castro is another hero of Corbyn...calum said:
Methinks its a fig box of your imagination0 -
So was Hitler....his mob didn't like the Jews much either.Jonathan said:Corbyn is articulate and charismatic.
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Not really true IMO. The centre ground is where it has been. The two parties are just speaking to their own supporters.bigjohnowls said:Elections can only be won from the centre ground.
Corbyn has single handedly moved the centre ground to the left of where it was but a few months ago.0 -
I feel the same way about Brexit - how can the majority of MPs force through something that they believe is wrong for the country? There seem to be plenty of Labour MPs who feel Corbynism is wrong for the party.Big_G_NorthWales said:In all of this can anyone explain to me how the vast majority of labour MP's can just keel over meekly as they lose their party to the hard left. Indeed how could they stand for election on a Corbyn manifesto
Labour is Brexit writ small. Funny old world....0 -
Godwin already? Really.FrancisUrquhart said:
So was Hitler....Jonathan said:Corbyn is articulate and charismatic.
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That comes close to feeling sorry for a bookmaker! I doubt they let anyone have more than a tenner on any of those bets anyway.TheScreamingEagles said:Poor Shadsy, he's having to pay out a 20/1 and a 10/1 winner on this speech with a few other 2/1s
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Shouty end.0
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powerBig_G_NorthWales said:In all of this can anyone explain to me how the vast majority of labour MP's can just keel over meekly as they lose their party to the hard left. Indeed how could they stand for election on a Corbyn manifesto
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You are obsessed that there is a huge cost.Pulpstar said:Has anyone totted up the cost of all these Labour promises yet ?
Investment generates growth
The Manifesto was largely fully costed What else did he PROMISE0 -
Just an Ayrton on Trump for me to win seven today.Sandpit said:
That comes close to feeling sorry for a bookmaker! I doubt they let anyone have more than a tenner on any of those bets anyway.TheScreamingEagles said:Poor Shadsy, he's having to pay out a 20/1 and a 10/1 winner on this speech with a few other 2/1s
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He left the impression that he'd promised it, and his supporters used social media to spread the message that he'd promised it. Youngsters probably still think he promised it, for that matter.bigjohnowls said:Didnt promise that though as you well know
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It wasn't hubristic. Clearly he'd have preferred nit to have one if he could have avoided it. And he did tell us which we we should vote and we didn't listen, that's on us, should it come to pm Corbyn.anothernick said:
Cameron is really the one to blame IMO. If he had not lost his hubristic referendum there would be no PM May and Corbyn would still be a maverick no-hoper.SeanT said:Theresa May. Theresa fucking May.
She did this. Her stupid, crappy election has put this crazy old Trot a few seats from power.0 -
The extreme left have no problems with absolute power and control as long as it is exercised by the right people. They also have no doubt as to who the "right people" are ...JosiasJessop said:
It's easy to explain:rottenborough said:LOL. He's on about intolerance now.
Erm, you mean like hard left activists threatening female journalists?
There is intolerance which is good, and to be commended. Then there is intolerance is bad, and which should be condemned. Bad intolerance should not be tolerated, whereas good intolerance should be tolerated. Intolerance can be tolerated when it comes from certain segments of society, whilst it should not be tolerated if it comes from another. All intleration from some segments of society is intolerable, whilst all intoleration from other segments should be tolerated, because their intoleration is the result of past intoleration by others.0 -
*Goodwin alert!*FrancisUrquhart said:
So was Hitler....his mob didn't like the Jews much either.Jonathan said:Corbyn is articulate and charismatic.
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Well the Tories really need to pull together and fight back and show some gumption over why people need to vote for them.0
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I think they will for that reason, but that being the only reason will prevent the change needed to win again and the job us Corbyn's for the taking unless he self harms.SeanT said:
I don't see how or why the Tory government would collapse any time soon, given that the likely outcome - if the polls are right - is Corbyn as PM.rottenborough said:
That sums up the complacency of Tories frankly. This stuff may happen within months.Sandpit said:Mrs May isn’t watching Corbyn’s speech. She’s at the cricket.
They will cling on til 2022. They have to, for the sake of the country.0 -
Well Corbyn's mate Red Ken appears to be obsessed with him...he has been back at this week again.old_labour said:
*Goodwin alert!*FrancisUrquhart said:
So was Hitler....his mob didn't like the Jews much either.Jonathan said:Corbyn is articulate and charismatic.
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Plenty implied to, knowingly. Very clever politics, and does the lie that they are different from the tories I'm tactics.rkrkrk said:
Good thing he didn't promise it then!david_herdson said:
The student debt write-off was £100bn by itself.bigjohnowls said:
What was the first £100 Bn over and above the fully costed manifesto.rottenborough said:
No doubt there's another £100billion or so of spending to be announced yet.Richard_Nabavi said:
Well, Castro is another hero of Corbyn...calum said:
Methinks its a fig box of your imagination0 -
The right has collectively lost its nut over Corbyn. One step away from another Demon Eyes campaign.0
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Source? I think you are thinking of Tory ScaremongerersRichard_Nabavi said:
He left the impression that he'd promised it, and his supporters used social media to spread the message that he'd promised it. Youngsters probably still think he promised it, for that matter.bigjohnowls said:Didnt promise that though as you well know
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