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TIMES main story #tomorrowspaperstoday pic.twitter.com/X1wnVitWEf
Comments
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First - like Boris claims to be0
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Second! Like Remain & Corbyn.....0
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I like the last paragraph, I seriously want to know what the newer MPs think about the shenanigans within the Tory Party - they have been remarkably tight lipped and I can only think they are unhappy about the way things are going. What they think must matter and to me the Tory grandees need to get their act together or something will break.0
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What will other cabinet ministers make of this? I suspect they will see Mrs May capitulates under the slightest pressure and provocation,
Citation required.....having trouble swallowing George's Humble Pie?0 -
I note Boris Johnson (Oxon) is quoting Dr Johnson (Oxon) in reference to his relationship with the Cabinet and PM (Oxon).....interesting tip on Jo Johnson (Oxon).....0
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I have been told directly by a reliable source very close to the prime minister that Boris is not on manoeuvres in trying to oust Mrs May or to seize the leadership of the party; only that he is genuinely and loyally trying to get the best possible deal for Brexit. BoJo & TMay are monolithically united and on-message with each other; any suggestion of there being deviation or dissention is nincompoopobulous Remoaniac-lefty fake propaganda.
Incidentally, Labour won 5-0 in the annual Croydon Conservative v. Labour charity football match on Sunday.0 -
Jo Johnson is too smart and pragmatic to lead the Tories. He might have a chance in a party with more sense and a genuine concern for the national interest.0
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yet another Tory wars yawnathon
why cant we have a Liverpool FC are crap thread ?0 -
The only slight problem is that there isn't one. The Liberal Democrats are out for relevance, the Greens are as corrupt as ever, Labour are a shambles who can't even work out what's in their Party interest and that leaves er....nobody.SouthamObserver said:Jo Johnson is too smart and pragmatic to lead the Tories. He might have a chance in a party with more sense and a genuine concern for the national interest.
On topic, can't see how Boris has been 'damaged' (implication: will now never lead the party). Apart from HYUFD, surely we all fully appreciated that he was never going to win a leadership race given his lack of support in the PCP?
As for the suggestion that May caves in to pressure, surely it shows the opposite and that despite everything she won't be bullied into changing her mind? Because although Boris is no longer talking of resigning there is no suggestion that he has forced a change of policy.
If anything however that's more worrying given that good negotiators are willing to respond flexibly to changing circumstances.0 -
You're not a glass half full person are you.ydoethur said:
The only slight problem is that there isn't one. The Liberal Democrats are out for relevance, the Greens are as corrupt as ever, Labour are a shambles who can't even work out what's in their Party interest and that leaves er....nobody.SouthamObserver said:Jo Johnson is too smart and pragmatic to lead the Tories. He might have a chance in a party with more sense and a genuine concern for the national interest.
On topic, can't see how Boris has been 'damaged' (implication: will now never lead the party). Apart from HYUFD, surely we all fully appreciated that he was never going to win a leadership race given his lack of support in the PCP?
As for the suggestion that May caves in to pressure, surely it shows the opposite and that despite everything she won't be bullied into changing her mind? Because although Boris is no longer talking of resigning there is no suggestion that he has forced a change of policy.
If anything however that's more worrying given that good negotiators are willing to respond flexibly to changing circumstances.0 -
What with one thing and another, it'ss fiar to say that May has managed to build up a good deal of interest in her speech, with everyone from Verhofstadt (curiously, the first to highlight it) to Boris highlighting it. It's possible that "£20 bn plus a Canada+ arrangement" has been cleared with the EU as sufficiently concrete to move the talks forward, and that they'll reciprocate by saying OK, we're willing to discuss trade (she'll need to have something on the Irish border too). If so, she'll been seen as having had a considerable tactical success, and it should help secure her position.
If the speech is fumbled then I think the damage would be terminal quite quickly. But her weakness is not in set-piece speeches - more in spontaneous answers and interaction with people.0 -
Interesting comment - why are the Greens "as corrupt as ever"............? what have they done that is corrupt -its quite a strong word.ydoethur said:
The only slight problem is that there isn't one. The Liberal Democrats are out for relevance, the Greens are as corrupt as ever, Labour are a shambles who can't even work out what's in their Party interest and that leaves er....nobody.SouthamObserver said:Jo Johnson is too smart and pragmatic to lead the Tories. He might have a chance in a party with more sense and a genuine concern for the national interest.
On topic, can't see how Boris has been 'damaged' (implication: will now never lead the party). Apart from HYUFD, surely we all fully appreciated that he was never going to win a leadership race given his lack of support in the PCP?
As for the suggestion that May caves in to pressure, surely it shows the opposite and that despite everything she won't be bullied into changing her mind? Because although Boris is no longer talking of resigning there is no suggestion that he has forced a change of policy.
If anything however that's more worrying given that good negotiators are willing to respond flexibly to changing circumstances.0 -
Possibly a LCFC are great thread!Alanbrooke said:yet another Tory wars yawnathon
why cant we have a Liverpool FC are crap thread ?
Shinji Okazaki tore them apart. We love that guy.0 -
I was thinking of their running of Brighton, with services appearing to reflect Green dogma rather than quality. Comment might also be made of the strange repeated horse trading over the leadership. I was also rather perturbed by Lucas' utterly cynical comments on social care, although that's hardly corruption (and why I was surprised at hypocrisy from an organisation that sings from the same hymn sheet as Greenpeace I don't know).swing_voter said:Interesting comment - why are the Greens "as corrupt as ever"............? what have they done that is corrupt -its quite a strong word.
On the contrary I am a boundless optimist. Unfortunately at the moment there isn't much to be optimistic about in politics.Recidivist said:
You're not a glass half full person are you.0 -
Her biggest problem in set pieces is that she cannot resist insulting her audience, getting a few tabloid plaudits here then getting the backlash.NickPalmer said:What with one thing and another, it'ss fiar to say that May has managed to build up a good deal of interest in her speech, with everyone from Verhofstadt (curiously, the first to highlight it) to Boris highlighting it. It's possible that "£20 bn plus a Canada+ arrangement" has been cleared with the EU as sufficiently concrete to move the talks forward, and that they'll reciprocate by saying OK, we're willing to discuss trade (she'll need to have something on the Irish border too). If so, she'll been seen as having had a considerable tactical success, and it should help secure her position.
If the speech is fumbled then I think the damage would be terminal quite quickly. But her weakness is not in set-piece speeches - more in spontaneous answers and interaction with people.0 -
I'm not a Green but none of the things you mention have anything to do with corruption, and the leadership of all parties always features maneouvres and horse-trading. You do tend to spoil your points by going OTT in my opinion, though of course it's up to you how you choose to write.ydoethur said:
I was thinking of their running of Brighton, with services appearing to reflect Green dogma rather than quality. Comment might also be made of the strange repeated horse trading over the leadership. I was also rather perturbed by Lucas' utterly cynical comments on social care, although that's hardly corruption (and why I was surprised at hypocrisy from an organisation that sings from the same hymn sheet as Greenpeace I don't know).swing_voter said:Interesting comment - why are the Greens "as corrupt as ever"............? what have they done that is corrupt -its quite a strong word.
On the contrary I am a boundless optimist. Unfortunately at the moment there isn't much to be optimistic about in politics.Recidivist said:
You're not a glass half full person are you.0 -
I'm expecting a good speech in Florence. Theresa May needs to make sure that she doesn't ruin the good work at the party conference with tone deaf clap lines. "Citizens of nowhere" did profound and lasting damage last year. As Prime Minister she needs to remember all of her audiences.NickPalmer said:What with one thing and another, it'ss fiar to say that May has managed to build up a good deal of interest in her speech, with everyone from Verhofstadt (curiously, the first to highlight it) to Boris highlighting it. It's possible that "£20 bn plus a Canada+ arrangement" has been cleared with the EU as sufficiently concrete to move the talks forward, and that they'll reciprocate by saying OK, we're willing to discuss trade (she'll need to have something on the Irish border too). If so, she'll been seen as having had a considerable tactical success, and it should help secure her position.
If the speech is fumbled then I think the damage would be terminal quite quickly. But her weakness is not in set-piece speeches - more in spontaneous answers and interaction with people.
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This is the major political/betting story.Alanbrooke said:yet another Tory wars yawnathon
why cant we have a Liverpool FC are crap thread ?
I remember when you Leavers said only a Leave victory would unite the Tory party.
So if you voted Leave you’re responsible for this thread.0 -
Good morning, everyone.
Could've gone for Queen.
The Plotting Must Go On.
The Great Pretender [technically just Freddie Mercury].
Great King Rat.
Too Much Ambition Will Kill You.
Don't Stop Me Now.
I Want It All.
On a rather more serious note, sad to hear of the Mexican death toll. Seems to be nothing but floods, hurricanes and quakes recently.0 -
I want it allMorris_Dancer said:Good morning, everyone.
Could've gone for Queen.
The Plotting Must Go On.
The Great Pretender [technically just Freddie Mercury].
Great King Rat.
Too Much Ambition Will Kill You.
Don't Stop Me Now.
I Want It All.
On a rather more serious note, sad to hear of the Mexican death toll. Seems to be nothing but floods, hurricanes and quakes recently.
I want it all
I want it all
and I want it er in 18 months time0 -
Some Tories have moved on from the question of what needs doing – the referendum answered that with the single word “leave” – and are applying themselves to the problem of how it might be done: how to protect industries that rely on the single market; how to organise the Irish border; how to support agriculture without EU subsidy. Others shrink from that challenge. They find comfort in the saccharine simplicity of restating the original cause. “Hard” Brexit is the place to which some Tories retreat to avoid getting their hands dirty with compromise. If things go wrong, they can blame the pragmatists for sullying the dream.
The prime minister wasted a year indulging that tendency. One May loyalist describes frustration in cabinet committees when trying to get radical Brexit ministers to focus on detail. Every obstacle is belittled as a symptom of weak faith; every workaround is treated as a trap laid by unrepentant Europhiles seeking to abort the whole thing. No assurance by ex-remainers that they have accepted the referendum is trusted. This leads to a vicious cycle: the only people in government prepared to engage with the question of how Brexit might work are those who didn’t vote for it, which reinforces the zealots’ suspicion that the “softies” are closet saboteurs.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/sep/20/saboteurs-tory-hard-brexit-eu-boris-johnson-theresa-may
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@jessphillips: I'm watching The Thick of It again and Boris is Ben Swain.0
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F1: seems Ocon is staying with Force India. So, might see more fireworks from the Pink Panthers next year (I hope they stick with the colour scheme).0
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Just had a quick look at Labour List and Conservative Home. The Conservative one has a list of articles on fairly important issues by people who look important if their photos are anything to go by - though I hadn't actually heard of any of them. Labour is much more interested in itself with a lot of posts about internal organisation. There is one article about the single market by Diane Abbot. If I knew nothing else about politics I'd probably conclude that the Conservatives are a bit more serious about things while Labour looks like a lot more vibrant. I'd probably vote for the Conservatives, but if I was interested in that sort of thing I'd be a lot more likely to join Labour. It looks like a more interesting place to be.
Being in my fifties I have of course long since formed an opinion on what the parties stand for and where I am likely to cast my vote. I was just trying to come at it with the fresh eyes of a young person getting interested in politics for the first time.0 -
Christ, you are reduced to citing the Guardian now Scott? Tell it not in Gath. How the mighty have fallen.Scott_P said:Some Tories have moved on from the question of what needs doing – the referendum answered that with the single word “leave” – and are applying themselves to the problem of how it might be done: how to protect industries that rely on the single market; how to organise the Irish border; how to support agriculture without EU subsidy. Others shrink from that challenge. They find comfort in the saccharine simplicity of restating the original cause. “Hard” Brexit is the place to which some Tories retreat to avoid getting their hands dirty with compromise. If things go wrong, they can blame the pragmatists for sullying the dream.
The prime minister wasted a year indulging that tendency. One May loyalist describes frustration in cabinet committees when trying to get radical Brexit ministers to focus on detail. Every obstacle is belittled as a symptom of weak faith; every workaround is treated as a trap laid by unrepentant Europhiles seeking to abort the whole thing. No assurance by ex-remainers that they have accepted the referendum is trusted. This leads to a vicious cycle: the only people in government prepared to engage with the question of how Brexit might work are those who didn’t vote for it, which reinforces the zealots’ suspicion that the “softies” are closet saboteurs.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/sep/20/saboteurs-tory-hard-brexit-eu-boris-johnson-theresa-may0 -
I though ed balls was ben swainScott_P said:
@jessphillips: I'm watching The Thick of It again and Boris is Ben Swain.
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Perhsps Bozo would be more appropriate than BoJo or BoNo???
He seems to lack judgement as well as spine.0 -
Morning all,Scott_P said:@jessphillips: I'm watching The Thick of It again and Boris is Ben Swain.
Who does she think is Dan Miller?0 -
On topic have we perhaps got used to over mighty PMs and forgotten how Cabinet government works? In the 60s and 70s parties had many "big beasts" who had to be appeased and brought on board in relation to major decisions. Boris is one of the bigger beasts in the Tory party today and has flexed his muscles to ensure that what has been arrived at is a compromise closer to his taste than the original position. That is how it is supposed to work.
Of course it would be a lot, lot better if this was done behind doors rather than played out in the media. But that is the world that we live in.0 -
The revolution turns in on itself. The principle effort is now the pursuing of the wreckers and traitors, as they are clearly to blame. Not the revolutionaries at all. No siree.Scott_P said:. Every obstacle is belittled as a symptom of weak faith; every workaround is treated as a trap laid by unrepentant Europhiles seeking to abort the whole thing. No assurance by ex-remainers that they have accepted the referendum is trusted. This leads to a vicious cycle: the only people in government prepared to engage with the question of how Brexit might work are those who didn’t vote for it, which reinforces the zealots’ suspicion that the “softies” are closet saboteurs.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/sep/20/saboteurs-tory-hard-brexit-eu-boris-johnson-theresa-may0 -
When did the horse trading take place?NickPalmer said:
I'm not a Green but none of the things you mention have anything to do with corruption, and the leadership of all parties always features maneouvres and horse-trading. You do tend to spoil your points by going OTT in my opinion, though of course it's up to you how you choose to write.ydoethur said:
I was thinking of their running of Brighton, with services appearing to reflect Green dogma rather than quality. Comment might also be made of the strange repeated horse trading over the leadership. I was also rather perturbed by Lucas' utterly cynical comments on social care, although that's hardly corruption (and why I was surprised at hypocrisy from an organisation that sings from the same hymn sheet as Greenpeace I don't know).swing_voter said:Interesting comment - why are the Greens "as corrupt as ever"............? what have they done that is corrupt -its quite a strong word.
On the contrary I am a boundless optimist. Unfortunately at the moment there isn't much to be optimistic about in politics.Recidivist said:
You're not a glass half full person are you.
There was a leadership election last year with around half a dozen candidates.0 -
foxinsoxuk said:
The revolution turns in on itself. The principle effort is now the pursuing of the wreckers and traitors, as they are clearly to blame. Not the revolutionaries at all. No siree.Scott_P said:. Every obstacle is belittled as a symptom of weak faith; every workaround is treated as a trap laid by unrepentant Europhiles seeking to abort the whole thing. No assurance by ex-remainers that they have accepted the referendum is trusted. This leads to a vicious cycle: the only people in government prepared to engage with the question of how Brexit might work are those who didn’t vote for it, which reinforces the zealots’ suspicion that the “softies” are closet saboteurs.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/sep/20/saboteurs-tory-hard-brexit-eu-boris-johnson-theresa-may0 -
The Labour party conference looks to be almost as interesting as the popcorn festival of the Tories. We are going to see what Corbyn can do now that his internal critics are marginalised. This is a party that put together a succesful campaign and manifesto on the fly, it now needs to put together a more coherent plan for government.Recidivist said:Just had a quick look at Labour List and Conservative Home. The Conservative one has a list of articles on fairly important issues by people who look important if their photos are anything to go by - though I hadn't actually heard of any of them. Labour is much more interested in itself with a lot of posts about internal organisation. There is one article about the single market by Diane Abbot. If I knew nothing else about politics I'd probably conclude that the Conservatives are a bit more serious about things while Labour looks like a lot more vibrant. I'd probably vote for the Conservatives, but if I was interested in that sort of thing I'd be a lot more likely to join Labour. It looks like a more interesting place to be.
Being in my fifties I have of course long since formed an opinion on what the parties stand for and where I am likely to cast my vote. I was just trying to come at it with the fresh eyes of a young person getting interested in politics for the first time.0 -
I keep reading articles saying they (younger MPs) are all meeting and planning to ditch the current generation and move forward.swing_voter said:I like the last paragraph, I seriously want to know what the newer MPs think about the shenanigans within the Tory Party - they have been remarkably tight lipped and I can only think they are unhappy about the way things are going. What they think must matter and to me the Tory grandees need to get their act together or something will break.
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There is no plan for Govt. Corbyn's mantra is all about opposition and opposing anything with populist un-producible policies.. such as the university fees lies.foxinsoxuk said:
The Labour party conference looks to be almost as interesting as the popcorn festival of the Tories. We are going to see what Corbyn can do now that his internal critics are marginalised. This is a party that put together a succesful campaign and manifesto on the fly, it now needs to put together a more coherent plan for government.Recidivist said:Just had a quick look at Labour List and Conservative Home. The Conservative one has a list of articles on fairly important issues by people who look important if their photos are anything to go by - though I hadn't actually heard of any of them. Labour is much more interested in itself with a lot of posts about internal organisation. There is one article about the single market by Diane Abbot. If I knew nothing else about politics I'd probably conclude that the Conservatives are a bit more serious about things while Labour looks like a lot more vibrant. I'd probably vote for the Conservatives, but if I was interested in that sort of thing I'd be a lot more likely to join Labour. It looks like a more interesting place to be.
Being in my fifties I have of course long since formed an opinion on what the parties stand for and where I am likely to cast my vote. I was just trying to come at it with the fresh eyes of a young person getting interested in politics for the first time.0 -
Mostly likely a damp squib IMO as these set pieces never meet expectations. If there was anything concrete in it I think would be out there by now. Probably not a disaster, but inadequate, like May herself.AlastairMeeks said:
I'm expecting a good speech in Florence. Theresa May needs to make sure that she doesn't ruin the good work at the party conference with tone deaf clap lines. "Citizens of nowhere" did profound and lasting damage last year. As Prime Minister she needs to remember all of her audiences.NickPalmer said:What with one thing and another, it'ss fiar to say that May has managed to build up a good deal of interest in her speech, with everyone from Verhofstadt (curiously, the first to highlight it) to Boris highlighting it. It's possible that "£20 bn plus a Canada+ arrangement" has been cleared with the EU as sufficiently concrete to move the talks forward, and that they'll reciprocate by saying OK, we're willing to discuss trade (she'll need to have something on the Irish border too). If so, she'll been seen as having had a considerable tactical success, and it should help secure her position.
If the speech is fumbled then I think the damage would be terminal quite quickly. But her weakness is not in set-piece speeches - more in spontaneous answers and interaction with people.0 -
So successful that they lost.foxinsoxuk said:
The Labour party conference looks to be almost as interesting as the popcorn festival of the Tories. We are going to see what Corbyn can do now that his internal critics are marginalised. This is a party that put together a succesful campaign and manifesto on the fly, it now needs to put together a more coherent plan for government.Recidivist said:Just had a quick look at Labour List and Conservative Home. The Conservative one has a list of articles on fairly important issues by people who look important if their photos are anything to go by - though I hadn't actually heard of any of them. Labour is much more interested in itself with a lot of posts about internal organisation. There is one article about the single market by Diane Abbot. If I knew nothing else about politics I'd probably conclude that the Conservatives are a bit more serious about things while Labour looks like a lot more vibrant. I'd probably vote for the Conservatives, but if I was interested in that sort of thing I'd be a lot more likely to join Labour. It looks like a more interesting place to be.
Being in my fifties I have of course long since formed an opinion on what the parties stand for and where I am likely to cast my vote. I was just trying to come at it with the fresh eyes of a young person getting interested in politics for the first time.0 -
It will be interesting if wiser heads prevail and get Corbyn and co. to appear as an alternative government in waiting, rather than spend their time ranting about how they actually won the election, all Tories are vermin, Blair is a war criminal, Brown is worse - a compromiser etc etc.SquareRoot said:
There is no plan for Govt. Corbyn's mantra is all about opposition and opposing anything with populist un-producible policies.. such as the university fees lies.foxinsoxuk said:
The Labour party conference looks to be almost as interesting as the popcorn festival of the Tories. We are going to see what Corbyn can do now that his internal critics are marginalised. This is a party that put together a succesful campaign and manifesto on the fly, it now needs to put together a more coherent plan for government.Recidivist said:Just had a quick look at Labour List and Conservative Home. The Conservative one has a list of articles on fairly important issues by people who look important if their photos are anything to go by - though I hadn't actually heard of any of them. Labour is much more interested in itself with a lot of posts about internal organisation. There is one article about the single market by Diane Abbot. If I knew nothing else about politics I'd probably conclude that the Conservatives are a bit more serious about things while Labour looks like a lot more vibrant. I'd probably vote for the Conservatives, but if I was interested in that sort of thing I'd be a lot more likely to join Labour. It looks like a more interesting place to be.
Being in my fifties I have of course long since formed an opinion on what the parties stand for and where I am likely to cast my vote. I was just trying to come at it with the fresh eyes of a young person getting interested in politics for the first time.
McD is clever. He might be up to the task.0 -
Labour were more coherent and detailed at the GE than the Tories. Which is all the more remarkable considering they had zero notice of May's surprise election.SquareRoot said:
There is no plan for Govt. Corbyn's mantra is all about opposition and opposing anything with populist un-producible policies.. such as the university fees lies.foxinsoxuk said:
The Labour party conference looks to be almost as interesting as the popcorn festival of the Tories. We are going to see what Corbyn can do now that his internal critics are marginalised. This is a party that put together a succesful campaign and manifesto on the fly, it now needs to put together a more coherent plan for government.Recidivist said:Just had a quick look at Labour List and Conservative Home. The Conservative one has a list of articles on fairly important issues by people who look important if their photos are anything to go by - though I hadn't actually heard of any of them. Labour is much more interested in itself with a lot of posts about internal organisation. There is one article about the single market by Diane Abbot. If I knew nothing else about politics I'd probably conclude that the Conservatives are a bit more serious about things while Labour looks like a lot more vibrant. I'd probably vote for the Conservatives, but if I was interested in that sort of thing I'd be a lot more likely to join Labour. It looks like a more interesting place to be.
Being in my fifties I have of course long since formed an opinion on what the parties stand for and where I am likely to cast my vote. I was just trying to come at it with the fresh eyes of a young person getting interested in politics for the first time.0 -
I'm not sure it really works because The Thick of It was quite explicit about the fact it was mirroring reality. The never seen Tom was Gordon Brown. I guess Dan Miller was David Miliband.rottenborough said:
Morning all,Scott_P said:@jessphillips: I'm watching The Thick of It again and Boris is Ben Swain.
Who does she think is Dan Miller?0 -
They were crystal clear in saying the UK would leave the single market before the U-turn. They take their voters for mugs.Jonathan said:
Labour were more coherent and detailed at the GE than the Tories. Which is all the more remarkable considering they had zero notice of May's surprise election.SquareRoot said:
There is no plan for Govt. Corbyn's mantra is all about opposition and opposing anything with populist un-producible policies.. such as the university fees lies.foxinsoxuk said:
The Labour party conference looks to be almost as interesting as the popcorn festival of the Tories. We are going to see what Corbyn can do now that his internal critics are marginalised. This is a party that put together a succesful campaign and manifesto on the fly, it now needs to put together a more coherent plan for government.Recidivist said:Just had a quick look at Labour List and Conservative Home. The Conservative one has a list of articles on fairly important issues by people who look important if their photos are anything to go by - though I hadn't actually heard of any of them. Labour is much more interested in itself with a lot of posts about internal organisation. There is one article about the single market by Diane Abbot. If I knew nothing else about politics I'd probably conclude that the Conservatives are a bit more serious about things while Labour looks like a lot more vibrant. I'd probably vote for the Conservatives, but if I was interested in that sort of thing I'd be a lot more likely to join Labour. It looks like a more interesting place to be.
Being in my fifties I have of course long since formed an opinion on what the parties stand for and where I am likely to cast my vote. I was just trying to come at it with the fresh eyes of a young person getting interested in politics for the first time.0 -
... but they also gained.tlg86 said:
So successful that they lost.foxinsoxuk said:
The Labour party conference looks to be almost as interesting as the popcorn festival of the Tories. We are going to see what Corbyn can do now that his internal critics are marginalised. This is a party that put together a succesful campaign and manifesto on the fly, it now needs to put together a more coherent plan for government.Recidivist said:Just had a quick look at Labour List and Conservative Home. The Conservative one has a list of articles on fairly important issues by people who look important if their photos are anything to go by - though I hadn't actually heard of any of them. Labour is much more interested in itself with a lot of posts about internal organisation. There is one article about the single market by Diane Abbot. If I knew nothing else about politics I'd probably conclude that the Conservatives are a bit more serious about things while Labour looks like a lot more vibrant. I'd probably vote for the Conservatives, but if I was interested in that sort of thing I'd be a lot more likely to join Labour. It looks like a more interesting place to be.
Being in my fifties I have of course long since formed an opinion on what the parties stand for and where I am likely to cast my vote. I was just trying to come at it with the fresh eyes of a young person getting interested in politics for the first time.0 -
coherent.. only if you believed the "promise the world" guff which was unachievable.Jonathan said:
Labour were more coherent and detailed at the GE than the Tories. Which is all the more remarkable considering they had zero notice of May's surprise election.SquareRoot said:
There is no plan for Govt. Corbyn's mantra is all about opposition and opposing anything with populist un-producible policies.. such as the university fees lies.foxinsoxuk said:
The Labour party conference looks to be almost as interesting as the popcorn festival of the Tories. We are going to see what Corbyn can do now that his internal critics are marginalised. This is a party that put together a succesful campaign and manifesto on the fly, it now needs to put together a more coherent plan for government.Recidivist said:Just had a quick look at Labour List and Conservative Home. The Conservative one has a list of articles on fairly important issues by people who look important if their photos are anything to go by - though I hadn't actually heard of any of them. Labour is much more interested in itself with a lot of posts about internal organisation. There is one article about the single market by Diane Abbot. If I knew nothing else about politics I'd probably conclude that the Conservatives are a bit more serious about things while Labour looks like a lot more vibrant. I'd probably vote for the Conservatives, but if I was interested in that sort of thing I'd be a lot more likely to join Labour. It looks like a more interesting place to be.
Being in my fifties I have of course long since formed an opinion on what the parties stand for and where I am likely to cast my vote. I was just trying to come at it with the fresh eyes of a young person getting interested in politics for the first time.
The Tory campaign was a disgrage , It was born of arrogance and believing ludicrous polls.
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A bit harsh on May.Zeitgeist said:
They were crystal clear in saying the UK would leave the single market before the U-turn. They take their voters for mugs.Jonathan said:
Labour were more coherent and detailed at the GE than the Tories. Which is all the more remarkable considering they had zero notice of May's surprise election.SquareRoot said:
There is no plan for Govt. Corbyn's mantra is all about opposition and opposing anything with populist un-producible policies.. such as the university fees lies.foxinsoxuk said:
The Labour party conference looks to be almost as interesting as the popcorn festival of the Tories. We are going to see what Corbyn can do now that his internal critics are marginalised. This is a party that put together a succesful campaign and manifesto on the fly, it now needs to put together a more coherent plan for government.Recidivist said:Just had a quick look at Labour List and Conservative Home. The Conservative one has a list of articles on fairly important issues by people who look important if their photos are anything to go by - though I hadn't actually heard of any of them. Labour is much more interested in itself with a lot of posts about internal organisation. There is one article about the single market by Diane Abbot. If I knew nothing else about politics I'd probably conclude that the Conservatives are a bit more serious about things while Labour looks like a lot more vibrant. I'd probably vote for the Conservatives, but if I was interested in that sort of thing I'd be a lot more likely to join Labour. It looks like a more interesting place to be.
Being in my fifties I have of course long since formed an opinion on what the parties stand for and where I am likely to cast my vote. I was just trying to come at it with the fresh eyes of a young person getting interested in politics for the first time.0 -
Not just the 'Big Beasts of the Cabinet' - how about 'Beer & Sandwiches with the TUC at Number 10'?DavidL said:On topic have we perhaps got used to over mighty PMs and forgotten how Cabinet government works? In the 60s and 70s parties had many "big beasts" who had to be appeased and brought on board in relation to major decisions. Boris is one of the bigger beasts in the Tory party today and has flexed his muscles to ensure that what has been arrived at is a compromise closer to his taste than the original position. That is how it is supposed to work.
Of course it would be a lot, lot better if this was done behind doors rather than played out in the media. But that is the world that we live in.
I recall one Labour Cabinet Minister recalling that if the Soviet Union had invaded West Germany they'd have to get Vic Feather on side before responding.....0 -
They were expected to fall apart and lose dozens of seats, putting them out of power for a generation. The campaign put on seats and in position to form the next government. They fought the campaign on the ground of their choosing (austerity and generational unfairness) rather than that of the Tories (Brexit and Totalitarianism). Sure, they could have done better still, which is what they need to prepare for.tlg86 said:
So successful that they lost.foxinsoxuk said:
The Labour party conference looks to be almost as interesting as the popcorn festival of the Tories. We are going to see what Corbyn can do now that his internal critics are marginalised. This is a party that put together a succesful campaign and manifesto on the fly, it now needs to put together a more coherent plan for government.Recidivist said:Just had a quick look at Labour List and Conservative Home. The Conservative one has a list of articles on fairly important issues by people who look important if their photos are anything to go by - though I hadn't actually heard of any of them. Labour is much more interested in itself with a lot of posts about internal organisation. There is one article about the single market by Diane Abbot. If I knew nothing else about politics I'd probably conclude that the Conservatives are a bit more serious about things while Labour looks like a lot more vibrant. I'd probably vote for the Conservatives, but if I was interested in that sort of thing I'd be a lot more likely to join Labour. It looks like a more interesting place to be.
Being in my fifties I have of course long since formed an opinion on what the parties stand for and where I am likely to cast my vote. I was just trying to come at it with the fresh eyes of a young person getting interested in politics for the first time.0 -
Suggestions on a postcard?SouthamObserver said:a party with more sense and a genuine concern for the national interest.
0 -
I'm of the view that 2017 was their (and I mean Corbyn and Co, not Labour) one and only chance to win.foxinsoxuk said:
They were expected to fall apart and lose dozens of seats, putting them out of power for a generation. The campaign put on seats and in position to form the next government. They fought the campaign on the ground of their choosing (austerity and generational unfairness) rather than that of the Tories (Brexit and Totalitarianism). Sure, they could have done better still, which is what they need to prepare for.tlg86 said:
So successful that they lost.foxinsoxuk said:
The Labour party conference looks to be almost as interesting as the popcorn festival of the Tories. We are going to see what Corbyn can do now that his internal critics are marginalised. This is a party that put together a succesful campaign and manifesto on the fly, it now needs to put together a more coherent plan for government.Recidivist said:Just had a quick look at Labour List and Conservative Home. The Conservative one has a list of articles on fairly important issues by people who look important if their photos are anything to go by - though I hadn't actually heard of any of them. Labour is much more interested in itself with a lot of posts about internal organisation. There is one article about the single market by Diane Abbot. If I knew nothing else about politics I'd probably conclude that the Conservatives are a bit more serious about things while Labour looks like a lot more vibrant. I'd probably vote for the Conservatives, but if I was interested in that sort of thing I'd be a lot more likely to join Labour. It looks like a more interesting place to be.
Being in my fifties I have of course long since formed an opinion on what the parties stand for and where I am likely to cast my vote. I was just trying to come at it with the fresh eyes of a young person getting interested in politics for the first time.0 -
But what about the points made in the article?DavidL said:
Christ, you are reduced to citing the Guardian now Scott? Tell it not in Gath. How the mighty have fallen.Scott_P said:Some Tories have moved on from the question of what needs doing – the referendum answered that with the single word “leave” – and are applying themselves to the problem of how it might be done: how to protect industries that rely on the single market; how to organise the Irish border; how to support agriculture without EU subsidy. Others shrink from that challenge. They find comfort in the saccharine simplicity of restating the original cause. “Hard” Brexit is the place to which some Tories retreat to avoid getting their hands dirty with compromise. If things go wrong, they can blame the pragmatists for sullying the dream.
The prime minister wasted a year indulging that tendency. One May loyalist describes frustration in cabinet committees when trying to get radical Brexit ministers to focus on detail. Every obstacle is belittled as a symptom of weak faith; every workaround is treated as a trap laid by unrepentant Europhiles seeking to abort the whole thing. No assurance by ex-remainers that they have accepted the referendum is trusted. This leads to a vicious cycle: the only people in government prepared to engage with the question of how Brexit might work are those who didn’t vote for it, which reinforces the zealots’ suspicion that the “softies” are closet saboteurs.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/sep/20/saboteurs-tory-hard-brexit-eu-boris-johnson-theresa-may0 -
Did you hold that position before June?tlg86 said:
I'm of the view that 2017 was their (and I mean Corbyn and Co, not Labour) one and only chance to win.foxinsoxuk said:
They were expected to fall apart and lose dozens of seats, putting them out of power for a generation. The campaign put on seats and in position to form the next government. They fought the campaign on the ground of their choosing (austerity and generational unfairness) rather than that of the Tories (Brexit and Totalitarianism). Sure, they could have done better still, which is what they need to prepare for.tlg86 said:
So successful that they lost.foxinsoxuk said:
The Labour party conference looks to be almost as interesting as the popcorn festival of the Tories. We are going to see what Corbyn can do now that his internal critics are marginalised. This is a party that put together a succesful campaign and manifesto on the fly, it now needs to put together a more coherent plan for government.Recidivist said:Just had a quick look at Labour List and Conservative Home. The Conservative one has a list of articles on fairly important issues by people who look important if their photos are anything to go by - though I hadn't actually heard of any of them. Labour is much more interested in itself with a lot of posts about internal organisation. There is one article about the single market by Diane Abbot. If I knew nothing else about politics I'd probably conclude that the Conservatives are a bit more serious about things while Labour looks like a lot more vibrant. I'd probably vote for the Conservatives, but if I was interested in that sort of thing I'd be a lot more likely to join Labour. It looks like a more interesting place to be.
Being in my fifties I have of course long since formed an opinion on what the parties stand for and where I am likely to cast my vote. I was just trying to come at it with the fresh eyes of a young person getting interested in politics for the first time.0 -
I didn't think they would win, but I didn't think they'd get a better opportunity to win.Jonathan said:
Did you hold that position before June?tlg86 said:
I'm of the view that 2017 was their (and I mean Corbyn and Co, not Labour) one and only chance to win.foxinsoxuk said:
They were expected to fall apart and lose dozens of seats, putting them out of power for a generation. The campaign put on seats and in position to form the next government. They fought the campaign on the ground of their choosing (austerity and generational unfairness) rather than that of the Tories (Brexit and Totalitarianism). Sure, they could have done better still, which is what they need to prepare for.tlg86 said:
So successful that they lost.foxinsoxuk said:
The Labour party conference looks to be almost as interesting as the popcorn festival of the Tories. We are going to see what Corbyn can do now that his internal critics are marginalised. This is a party that put together a succesful campaign and manifesto on the fly, it now needs to put together a more coherent plan for government.Recidivist said:Just had a quick look at Labour List and Conservative Home. The Conservative one has a list of articles on fairly important issues by people who look important if their photos are anything to go by - though I hadn't actually heard of any of them. Labour is much more interested in itself with a lot of posts about internal organisation. There is one article about the single market by Diane Abbot. If I knew nothing else about politics I'd probably conclude that the Conservatives are a bit more serious about things while Labour looks like a lot more vibrant. I'd probably vote for the Conservatives, but if I was interested in that sort of thing I'd be a lot more likely to join Labour. It looks like a more interesting place to be.
Being in my fifties I have of course long since formed an opinion on what the parties stand for and where I am likely to cast my vote. I was just trying to come at it with the fresh eyes of a young person getting interested in politics for the first time.
EDIT: That said, most of my winnings came on backing Labour, I only wish I'd bought them on the spread betting market.0 -
This is a rotten divided government, devoid of ideas and inspiration. Labour is nailed on to form the next government, the only question is its form. Labour is right to concentrate on that.tlg86 said:
I'm of the view that 2017 was their (and I mean Corbyn and Co, not Labour) one and only chance to win.foxinsoxuk said:
They were expected to fall apart and lose dozens of seats, putting them out of power for a generation. The campaign put on seats and in position to form the next government. They fought the campaign on the ground of their choosing (austerity and generational unfairness) rather than that of the Tories (Brexit and Totalitarianism). Sure, they could have done better still, which is what they need to prepare for.tlg86 said:
So successful that they lost.foxinsoxuk said:
The Labour party conference looks to be almost as interesting as the popcorn festival of the Tories. We are going to see what Corbyn can do now that his internal critics are marginalised. This is a party that put together a succesful campaign and manifesto on the fly, it now needs to put together a more coherent plan for government.Recidivist said:Just had a quick look at Labour List and Conservative Home. The Conservative one has a list of articles on fairly important issues by people who look important if their photos are anything to go by - though I hadn't actually heard of any of them. Labour is much more interested in itself with a lot of posts about internal organisation. There is one article about the single market by Diane Abbot. If I knew nothing else about politics I'd probably conclude that the Conservatives are a bit more serious about things while Labour looks like a lot more vibrant. I'd probably vote for the Conservatives, but if I was interested in that sort of thing I'd be a lot more likely to join Labour. It looks like a more interesting place to be.
Being in my fifties I have of course long since formed an opinion on what the parties stand for and where I am likely to cast my vote. I was just trying to come at it with the fresh eyes of a young person getting interested in politics for the first time.
I expect another election within 18 months, so Labours perpetual campaign is a sound idea. It keeps the troops engaged.0 -
Dr. Foxinsox, I fear the glorious revolution will be less magnificent than you hope.
Trident will be thrown away on a permanent basis. The state, still heavily indebted after Labour's last stint, will have its deficit balloon rather than diminish. More blind eyes for cultural sensitivity, one imagines.0 -
Curious, the rest of the world had the Tories nailed on. FWIW I doubt anyone can predict the next election. We don't know when it is, who will fight it and what the economic and political context will be.tlg86 said:
I didn't think they would win, but I didn't think they'd get a better opportunity to win.Jonathan said:
Did you hold that position before June?tlg86 said:
I'm of the view that 2017 was their (and I mean Corbyn and Co, not Labour) one and only chance to win.foxinsoxuk said:
They were expected to fall apart and lose dozens of seats, putting them out of power for a generation. The campaign put on seats and in position to form the next government. They fought the campaign on the ground of their choosing (austerity and generational unfairness) rather than that of the Tories (Brexit and Totalitarianism). Sure, they could have done better still, which is what they need to prepare for.tlg86 said:
So successful that they lost.foxinsoxuk said:
The Labour party conference looks to be almost as interesting as the popcorn festival of the Tories. We are going to see what Corbyn can do now that his internal critics are marginalised. This is a party that put together a succesful campaign and manifesto on the fly, it now needs to put together a more coherent plan for government.Recidivist said:Just had a quick look at Labour List and Conservative Home. The Conservative one has a list of articles on fairly important issues by people who look important if their photos are anything to go by - though I hadn't actually heard of any of them. Labour is much more interested in itself with a lot of posts about internal organisation. There is one article about the single market by Diane Abbot. If I knew nothing else about politics I'd probably conclude that the Conservatives are a bit more serious about things while Labour looks like a lot more vibrant. I'd probably vote for the Conservatives, but if I was interested in that sort of thing I'd be a lot more likely to join Labour. It looks like a more interesting place to be.
Being in my fifties I have of course long since formed an opinion on what the parties stand for and where I am likely to cast my vote. I was just trying to come at it with the fresh eyes of a young person getting interested in politics for the first time.
Given how much a pig's ear the Tories are making it and that we're overdue a recession, a Corbyn win really can't be ruled out. He is also much stronger in Labour than he was in June.0 -
Don't get me wrong, there is a lot of rationalisation after the event. Certainly when the election was called it looked like the Tories should win, but by May 21 I started to have my doubts and bet accordingly.Jonathan said:
Curious, the rest of the world had the Tories nailed on. FWIW I doubt anyone can predict the next election. We don't know when it is, who will fight it and what economic and political context will be.tlg86 said:
I didn't think they would win, but I didn't think they'd get a better opportunity to win.Jonathan said:
Did you hold that position before June?tlg86 said:
I'm of the view that 2017 was their (and I mean Corbyn and Co, not Labour) one and only chance to win.foxinsoxuk said:
They were expected to fall apart and lose dozens of seats, putting them out of power for a generation. The campaign put on seats and in position to form the next government. They fought the campaign on the ground of their choosing (austerity and generational unfairness) rather than that of the Tories (Brexit and Totalitarianism). Sure, they could have done better still, which is what they need to prepare for.tlg86 said:
So successful that they lost.foxinsoxuk said:The Labour party conference looks to be almost as interesting as the popcorn festival of the Tories. We are going to see what Corbyn can do now that his internal critics are marginalised. This is a party that put together a succesful campaign and manifesto on the fly, it now needs to put together a more coherent plan for government.
Given how much a pig's ear the Tories are making it and that we're overdue a recession, a Corbyn win really can't be ruled out. He is also much stronger in Labour than he was in June.0 -
It's a real thing too. Even in sleepy old Tory Sussex they're out every weekend at the moment. What Corbyn has inspired is genuinely impressive.foxinsoxuk said:
This is a rotten divided government, devoid of ideas and inspiration. Labour is nailed on to form the next government, the only question is its form. Labour is right to concentrate on that.tlg86 said:
I'm of the view that 2017 was their (and I mean Corbyn and Co, not Labour) one and only chance to win.foxinsoxuk said:
They were expected to fall apart and lose dozens of seats, putting them out of power for a generation. The campaign put on seats and in position to form the next government. They fought the campaign on the ground of their choosing (austerity and generational unfairness) rather than that of the Tories (Brexit and Totalitarianism). Sure, they could have done better still, which is what they need to prepare for.tlg86 said:
So successful that they lost.foxinsoxuk said:
The Labour party conference looks to be almost as interesting as the popcorn festival of the Tories. We are going to see what Corbyn can do now that his internal critics are marginalised. This is a party that put together a succesful campaign and manifesto on the fly, it now needs to put together a more coherent plan for government.Recidivist said:Just had a quick look at Labour List and Conservative Home. The Conservative one has a list of articles on fairly important issues by people who look important if their photos are anything to go by - though I hadn't actually heard of any of them. Labour is much more interested in itself with a lot of posts about internal organisation. There is one article about the single market by Diane Abbot. If I knew nothing else about politics I'd probably conclude that the Conservatives are a bit more serious about things while Labour looks like a lot more vibrant. I'd probably vote for the Conservatives, but if I was interested in that sort of thing I'd be a lot more likely to join Labour. It looks like a more interesting place to be.
Being in my fifties I have of course long since formed an opinion on what the parties stand for and where I am likely to cast my vote. I was just trying to come at it with the fresh eyes of a young person getting interested in politics for the first time.
I expect another election within 18 months, so Labours perpetual campaign is a sound idea. It keeps the troops engaged.0 -
somr of us keep close to the real betting storiesTheScreamingEagles said:
This is the major political/betting story.Alanbrooke said:yet another Tory wars yawnathon
why cant we have a Liverpool FC are crap thread ?
I remember when you Leavers said only a Leave victory would unite the Tory party.
So if you voted Leave you’re responsible for this thread.
the true betting indicator ( what colour shirt do the champios wear ) is pointing to a conservative victory today
Liverpool = crap, Arsenal = double crap
top three teams blue red blue
all Labour's hopes rest on Mourinho0 -
If I learnt nothing else from Trump and the 2017 election - it is that nothing is really nailed on politics.foxinsoxuk said:
This is a rotten divided government, devoid of ideas and inspiration. Labour is nailed on to form the next government, the only question is its form. Labour is right to concentrate on that.tlg86 said:
I'm of the view that 2017 was their (and I mean Corbyn and Co, not Labour) one and only chance to win.foxinsoxuk said:
They were expected to fall apart and lose dozens of seats, putting them out of power for a generation. The campaign put on seats and in position to form the next government. They fought the campaign on the ground of their choosing (austerity and generational unfairness) rather than that of the Tories (Brexit and Totalitarianism). Sure, they could have done better still, which is what they need to prepare for.tlg86 said:
So successful that they lost.foxinsoxuk said:
The Labour party conference looks to be almost as interesting as the popcorn festival of the Tories. We are going to see what Corbyn can do now that his internal critics are marginalised. This is a party that put together a succesful campaign and manifesto on the fly, it now needs to put together a more coherent plan for government.Recidivist said:Just had a quick look at Labour List and Conservative Home. The Conservative one has a list of articles on fairly important issues by people who look important if their photos are anything to go by - though I hadn't actually heard of any of them. Labour is much more interested in itself with a lot of posts about internal organisation. There is one article about the single market by Diane Abbot. If I knew nothing else about politics I'd probably conclude that the Conservatives are a bit more serious about things while Labour looks like a lot more vibrant. I'd probably vote for the Conservatives, but if I was interested in that sort of thing I'd be a lot more likely to join Labour. It looks like a more interesting place to be.
Being in my fifties I have of course long since formed an opinion on what the parties stand for and where I am likely to cast my vote. I was just trying to come at it with the fresh eyes of a young person getting interested in politics for the first time.
I expect another election within 18 months, so Labours perpetual campaign is a sound idea. It keeps the troops engaged.
Indeed my record for absolute dead cert, not a shadow of a doubt, this is free money betting is actually 0/2.
Considerably worse than the times when I've said - this could be wrong, but I reckon x (Brexit, Obama re-election, Miliband 2015) - 2/3.0 -
I was at the cricket yesterday, where another Yorkshire accented former public schoolboy ruled the world.Alanbrooke said:
somr of us keep close to the real betting storiesTheScreamingEagles said:
This is the major political/betting story.Alanbrooke said:yet another Tory wars yawnathon
why cant we have a Liverpool FC are crap thread ?
I remember when you Leavers said only a Leave victory would unite the Tory party.
So if you voted Leave you’re responsible for this thread.
the true betting indicator ( what colour shirt do the champios wear ) is pointing to a conservative victory today
Liverpool = crap, Arsenal = double crap
top three teams blue red blue
all Labour's hopes rest on Mourinho
Have you noticed Manchester United fans have become even more racist after Brexit.
Cricket is the game for civilised people.0 -
No, I'm from Ulster we dont do racism only sectarian bigotryTheScreamingEagles said:
I was at the cricket yesterday, where another Yorkshire accented former public schoolboy ruled the world.Alanbrooke said:
somr of us keep close to the real betting storiesTheScreamingEagles said:
This is the major political/betting story.Alanbrooke said:yet another Tory wars yawnathon
why cant we have a Liverpool FC are crap thread ?
I remember when you Leavers said only a Leave victory would unite the Tory party.
So if you voted Leave you’re responsible for this thread.
the true betting indicator ( what colour shirt do the champios wear ) is pointing to a conservative victory today
Liverpool = crap, Arsenal = double crap
top three teams blue red blue
all Labour's hopes rest on Mourinho
Have you noticed Manchester United fans have become even more racist after Brexit.
Cricket is the game for civilised people.
cricket is just boring as hell, I'm a hurling fan
30 Sinn Feiners bashing the bejasus out of each other with sticks for 70 minutes is the ultimate orangemans game0 -
Just for you, it is quite sick and offensive.Alanbrooke said:
No, I'm from Ulster we dont do racism only sectarian bigotryTheScreamingEagles said:
I was at the cricket yesterday, where another Yorkshire accented former public schoolboy ruled the world.Alanbrooke said:
somr of us keep close to the real betting storiesTheScreamingEagles said:
This is the major political/betting story.Alanbrooke said:yet another Tory wars yawnathon
why cant we have a Liverpool FC are crap thread ?
I remember when you Leavers said only a Leave victory would unite the Tory party.
So if you voted Leave you’re responsible for this thread.
the true betting indicator ( what colour shirt do the champios wear ) is pointing to a conservative victory today
Liverpool = crap, Arsenal = double crap
top three teams blue red blue
all Labour's hopes rest on Mourinho
Have you noticed Manchester United fans have become even more racist after Brexit.
Cricket is the game for civilised people.
cricket is just boring as hell, I'm a hurling fan
30 Sinn Feiners bashing the bejasus out of each other with sticks for 70 minutes is the ultimate orangemans game
@Nick_Pettigrew:
"Yeah, don't plough up that bit of field over there, though"
"Why?"
"No reason"
https://twitter.com/GerryAdamsSF/status/9101144510467686410 -
-
Mr. Eagles, reckon the Catalan referendum might not happen?0
-
Cricket is the great anti-racism argument. In more primitive sports there are racial advantages (running - back the Ethiopian, boxing - lay the honky), but add a bit of complexity so you get cricket, three entirely different ethnic groupings are competitive against each other.TheScreamingEagles said:
I was at the cricket yesterday, where another Yorkshire accented former public schoolboy ruled the world.Alanbrooke said:
somr of us keep close to the real betting storiesTheScreamingEagles said:
This is the major political/betting story.Alanbrooke said:yet another Tory wars yawnathon
why cant we have a Liverpool FC are crap thread ?
I remember when you Leavers said only a Leave victory would unite the Tory party.
So if you voted Leave you’re responsible for this thread.
the true betting indicator ( what colour shirt do the champios wear ) is pointing to a conservative victory today
Liverpool = crap, Arsenal = double crap
top three teams blue red blue
all Labour's hopes rest on Mourinho
Have you noticed Manchester United fans have become even more racist after Brexit.
Cricket is the game for civilised people.0 -
I don't know enough about Catalan/Spanish affairs to comment.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Eagles, reckon the Catalan referendum might not happen?
All I will say is that the Spanish government are doing their best to ensure Catalonia leaves Spain.0 -
This looks like a nailed on way to promote Catalan anger with Spain.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Eagles, reckon the Catalan referendum might not happen?
0 -
Mr. Eagles, must admit, the old "The more you tighten your grip..." line did spring to mind.0
-
Swap Spanish for Westminster and Catalonia for Scotland and it sounds like 2014.TheScreamingEagles said:Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Eagles, reckon the Catalan referendum might not happen?
All I will say is that the Spanish government are doing their best to ensure Catalonia leaves Spain.
0 -
Simon Rowntree @SRowntreeNewEraTheScreamingEagles said:
I was at the cricket yesterday, where another Yorkshire accented former public schoolboy ruled the world.Alanbrooke said:
somr of us keep close to the real betting storiesTheScreamingEagles said:
This is the major political/betting story.Alanbrooke said:yet another Tory wars yawnathon
why cant we have a Liverpool FC are crap thread ?
I remember when you Leavers said only a Leave victory would unite the Tory party.
So if you voted Leave you’re responsible for this thread.
the true betting indicator ( what colour shirt do the champios wear ) is pointing to a conservative victory today
Liverpool = crap, Arsenal = double crap
top three teams blue red blue
all Labour's hopes rest on Mourinho
Have you noticed Manchester United fans have become even more racist after Brexit.
Cricket is the game for civilised people.
About to kick off at Turf Moor. Leeds fans chanting "We want Brexit, we want Trump, we hate this Sharia dump!" This is disgusting. #BURLEE0 -
Ditching Trident would be a positive, but I think Corbyn shaped Brexit would be a good thing too.Morris_Dancer said:Dr. Foxinsox, I fear the glorious revolution will be less magnificent than you hope.
Trident will be thrown away on a permanent basis. The state, still heavily indebted after Labour's last stint, will have its deficit balloon rather than diminish. More blind eyes for cultural sensitivity, one imagines.
Workers and environmental protections sorted, and a less xenophobic policy towards our EU friends and neighbours. Sorting out generational unfairness too.
The Tories abandoned pretence at economic competence with Brexit. If we are going on a blow out budget, at least spend it on stuff worth having.-1 -
I don't see any way a free and fair vote can possibly happen with the actions the Spaniards have taken.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Eagles, reckon the Catalan referendum might not happen?
0 -
What's so daft is that there probably isn't (or wasn't) a majority for separation in Catalonia. Unfortunately, the PP appear to have inherited some of Franco's ideas rather than just personnel and supporters.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Eagles, must admit, the old "The more you tighten your grip..." line did spring to mind.
0 -
Yes, I remember the arrest Scot Nats aide.TGOHF said:
Swap Spanish for Westminster and Catalonia for Scotland and it sounds like 2014.TheScreamingEagles said:Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Eagles, reckon the Catalan referendum might not happen?
All I will say is that the Spanish government are doing their best to ensure Catalonia leaves Spain.0 -
-
Yeah because Westminster blocked the SNP holding a vote in 2014, arrested SNP ministers who were trying to organise a ballot anyway, sent armed Police in to raid The National ...TGOHF said:
Swap Spanish for Westminster and Catalonia for Scotland and it sounds like 2014.TheScreamingEagles said:Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Eagles, reckon the Catalan referendum might not happen?
All I will say is that the Spanish government are doing their best to ensure Catalonia leaves Spain.
... Completely the same thing.0 -
Mr. Flashman (deceased), Leeds fans have long been renowned for their subtle and intellectual prognostications. [As an aside, most of the replies are actually praising the Leeds fans].
Dr. Foxinsox, Corbyn's a dangerous anti-British idiot. I hope we don't live to see the smoking ruin he would inflict upon this country.
Mr. Thompson, but do you think a vote will go ahead?0 -
I don't see how it can - and if it does I don't see how any results it produces can be taken seriously.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Thompson, but do you think a vote will go ahead?
0 -
Voting in Corbyn is Remains Mutually Assured Destruction on the Brexit headbangers.Morris_Dancer said:].
Dr. Foxinsox, Corbyn's a dangerous anti-British idiot. I hope we don't live to see the smoking ruin he would inflict upon this country.?0 -
Looking at the strangle hold momentum and the hard left are acquiring the next election, with Corbyn leading, will be very different and will come under a lot more scrutiny. This Country will not elect a marxist anti UK party.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Flashman (deceased), Leeds fans have long been renowned for their subtle and intellectual prognostications. [As an aside, most of the replies are actually praising the Leeds fans].
Dr. Foxinsox, Corbyn's a dangerous anti-British idiot. I hope we don't live to see the smoking ruin he would inflict upon this country.
Mr. Thompson, but do you think a vote will go ahead?0 -
For the first 8 years of my working life, i experienced your sectarian bias, and then came to London, where racism (including Irish) was still fairly prevalent. There's no difference.Alanbrooke said:
No, I'm from Ulster we dont do racism only sectarian bigotryTheScreamingEagles said:
I was at the cricket yesterday, where another Yorkshire accented former public schoolboy ruled the world.Alanbrooke said:
somr of us keep close to the real betting storiesTheScreamingEagles said:
This is the major political/betting story.Alanbrooke said:yet another Tory wars yawnathon
why cant we have a Liverpool FC are crap thread ?
I remember when you Leavers said only a Leave victory would unite the Tory party.
So if you voted Leave you’re responsible for this thread.
the true betting indicator ( what colour shirt do the champios wear ) is pointing to a conservative victory today
Liverpool = crap, Arsenal = double crap
top three teams blue red blue
all Labour's hopes rest on Mourinho
Have you noticed Manchester United fans have become even more racist after Brexit.
Cricket is the game for civilised people.
cricket is just boring as hell, I'm a hurling fan
30 Sinn Feiners bashing the bejasus out of each other with sticks for 70 minutes is the ultimate orangemans game0 -
I was chatting with a Catalonian friend just back from Barcelona. He doesn't know what happens next, but he reckoned that Barcalona is pro-Spain, with independence stronger in the smaller towns and villages.RoyalBlue said:
What's so daft is that there probably isn't (or wasn't) a majority for separation in Catalonia. Unfortunately, the PP appear to have inherited some of Franco's ideas rather than just personnel and supporters.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Eagles, must admit, the old "The more you tighten your grip..." line did spring to mind.
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Mr. NorthWales, I very much hope you're right.
Mr. Dubliner, hope that sort of thing has ended, or at least diminished.0 -
We're all doomedCarlottaVance said:I note Boris Johnson (Oxon) is quoting Dr Johnson (Oxon) in reference to his relationship with the Cabinet and PM (Oxon).....interesting tip on Jo Johnson (Oxon).....
Theresa May’s Brexit supremo Olly Robbins is a former Soviet sympathiser who opposed capitalism, praised Soviet leaders and lamented the demise of Communist Russia, Guido can reveal.
As as a student at Hertford College, Oxford in the nineties, “Red Robbins” wrote an article in praise of Soviet Russia for the Oxford Reform Club magazine. In a rewriting of history that would have made Seumas Milne blush, the PM’s new star Number 10 hire wrote:
“The Russian state has endured more than any other major nation in the twentieth century, and has achieved more too… I would never disagree that some of the deeds done in the name of communism were evil, but it is as well to look at the era’s aims and achievements. First among these were the aims of free and fair education, housing and healthcare. These were also the main planks of the post-war consensus here in Britain, and could hardly be described as evil. What is more, they were achieved. More Russians can read than Britons, there are almost no homeless people in Moscow, unlike London… Another achievement was the making of a state, a world power indeed, and one that its people could be proud of. The Soviet leaders changed Russia from a backward peasant autocracy, despised by the West, into a technological giant at whom the world cowered in fear for half a century.”
Red Robbins then lamented the fall of the Soviet Union as meaning there is no longer an alternative to the real baddie: capitalism.
https://order-order.com/2017/09/19/red-robbins-mays-brexit-supremo-is-soviet-sympathiser-who-opposed-capitalism/0 -
http://money.cnn.com/2017/09/19/investing/norway-pension-fund-trillion-dollars/index.html
Why didn't we do this with our oil wealth?
Our state pension could have been, like, actually funded.0 -
Madrid has never found it easy to accept any cession of power, even when it's blindingly obvious. Their last armies in South America were defeated in the mid 1820s, but they didn't recognise Peru's independence until 1879.
They still haven't got over the Century of Gold.0 -
Dr. Foxinsox, if there is a vote, turnout in Barcelona might tell us the story before the results proper come through (although most European votes seem to be counted rather more efficiently than British ones).0
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@Aiannucci: Brexit talks going extremely well. Theresa May's just hammered out an excellent deal with Boris Johnson. C'mon Britain, we can do this!0
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Corbyn is not anti English, or anti UK, but rather represents a different strand of Englishness. He comes from a long tradition of English radicalism, with roots in the Levellers, the Tolpuddle Martyrs, the Peterloo massacre, the Chartists, the Labour party, the ILP, CND, the Bennites and many others.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Looking at the strangle hold momentum and the hard left are acquiring the next election, with Corbyn leading, will be very different and will come under a lot more scrutiny. This Country will not elect a marxist anti UK party.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Flashman (deceased), Leeds fans have long been renowned for their subtle and intellectual prognostications. [As an aside, most of the replies are actually praising the Leeds fans].
Dr. Foxinsox, Corbyn's a dangerous anti-British idiot. I hope we don't live to see the smoking ruin he would inflict upon this country.
Mr. Thompson, but do you think a vote will go ahead?
The Tories do not own Englishness.0 -
Sky reporting Theresa May's speech in Florence will be attended by Boris, Hammond and Davis
The spotlight on TM today turns to her address at the United Nations over terrorism and in particular the role of facebook, twitter and social media in publication of terror information. She will share the address with Macron and the Italian PM.
She is putting herself on the global stage and it sets up her for her Florence speech
Whether you are a remainer, leaver or re-leaver (like myself) this has to be the biggest moment so far in Brexit0 -
Nah the biggest moment so far in Brexit was Mrs May called an election to increase the majority bequeathed to her by David Cameron to crush the saboteurs, and well lost that majority.Big_G_NorthWales said:Sky reporting Theresa May's speech in Florence will be attended by Boris, Hammond and Davis
The spotlight on TM today turns to her address at the United Nations over terrorism and in particular the role of facebook, twitter and social media in publication of terror information. She will share the address with Macron and the Italian PM.
She is putting herself on the global stage and it sets up her for her Florence speech
Whether you are a remainer, leaver or re-leaver (like myself) this has to be the biggest moment so far in Brexit0 -
Because Mrs. T needed the money to reduce personal tax?Pong said:http://money.cnn.com/2017/09/19/investing/norway-pension-fund-trillion-dollars/index.html
Why didn't we do this with our oil wealth?
Our state pension could have been, like, actually funded.
It would have been better to invest in infrastructure for the future.0 -
Corbyn sided with the IRA, entertains terrorist groups and models his economics on Venezeula, that well known thriving democracy in South America. He will not be PMfoxinsoxuk said:
Corbyn is not anti English, or anti UK, but rather represents a different strand of Englishness. He comes from a long tradition of English radicalism, with roots in the Levellers, the Tolpuddle Martyrs, the Peterloo massacre, the Chartists, the Labour party, the ILP, CND, the Bennites and many others.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Looking at the strangle hold momentum and the hard left are acquiring the next election, with Corbyn leading, will be very different and will come under a lot more scrutiny. This Country will not elect a marxist anti UK party.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Flashman (deceased), Leeds fans have long been renowned for their subtle and intellectual prognostications. [As an aside, most of the replies are actually praising the Leeds fans].
Dr. Foxinsox, Corbyn's a dangerous anti-British idiot. I hope we don't live to see the smoking ruin he would inflict upon this country.
Mr. Thompson, but do you think a vote will go ahead?
The Tories do not own Englishness.0 -
We are beyond that now - Friday is a big moment - indeed it could decide not only the shape of Brexit but also TM's futureTheScreamingEagles said:
Nah the biggest moment so far in Brexit was Mrs May called an election to increase the majority bequeathed to her by David Cameron to crush the saboteurs, and well lost that majority.Big_G_NorthWales said:Sky reporting Theresa May's speech in Florence will be attended by Boris, Hammond and Davis
The spotlight on TM today turns to her address at the United Nations over terrorism and in particular the role of facebook, twitter and social media in publication of terror information. She will share the address with Macron and the Italian PM.
She is putting herself on the global stage and it sets up her for her Florence speech
Whether you are a remainer, leaver or re-leaver (like myself) this has to be the biggest moment so far in Brexit0 -
We are still living with that now, Mrs May doesn't have a future, it is a case of when she goes not if.Big_G_NorthWales said:
We are beyond that now - Friday is a big moment - indeed it could decide not only the shape of Brexit but also TM's futureTheScreamingEagles said:
Nah the biggest moment so far in Brexit was Mrs May called an election to increase the majority bequeathed to her by David Cameron to crush the saboteurs, and well lost that majority.Big_G_NorthWales said:Sky reporting Theresa May's speech in Florence will be attended by Boris, Hammond and Davis
The spotlight on TM today turns to her address at the United Nations over terrorism and in particular the role of facebook, twitter and social media in publication of terror information. She will share the address with Macron and the Italian PM.
She is putting herself on the global stage and it sets up her for her Florence speech
Whether you are a remainer, leaver or re-leaver (like myself) this has to be the biggest moment so far in Brexit0 -
Makes sense. Migrants from other parts of Spain and the Hispanic world congregate there,foxinsoxuk said:
I was chatting with a Catalonian friend just back from Barcelona. He doesn't know what happens next, but he reckoned that Barcalona is pro-Spain, with independence stronger in the smaller towns and villages.RoyalBlue said:
What's so daft is that there probably isn't (or wasn't) a majority for separation in Catalonia. Unfortunately, the PP appear to have inherited some of Franco's ideas rather than just personnel and supporters.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Eagles, must admit, the old "The more you tighten your grip..." line did spring to mind.
I think the self-image of the Catalans as more cosmopolitan and sophisticated than their Castilian cousins is pretty common, but this is the people who, as recounted in Giles Tremlett's book 'Ghosts of Spain', think teaching immigrants Catalan expressions like 'treballar com un negro' is acceptable.
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I think that he is highly likely to be PM. Those scares did not work in June, and will not again.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Corbyn sided with the IRA, entertains terrorist groups and models his economics on Venezeula, that well known thriving democracy in South America. He will not be PMfoxinsoxuk said:
Corbyn is not anti English, or anti UK, but rather represents a different strand of Englishness. He comes from a long tradition of English radicalism, with roots in the Levellers, the Tolpuddle Martyrs, the Peterloo massacre, the Chartists, the Labour party, the ILP, CND, the Bennites and many others.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Looking at the strangle hold momentum and the hard left are acquiring the next election, with Corbyn leading, will be very different and will come under a lot more scrutiny. This Country will not elect a marxist anti UK party.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Flashman (deceased), Leeds fans have long been renowned for their subtle and intellectual prognostications. [As an aside, most of the replies are actually praising the Leeds fans].
Dr. Foxinsox, Corbyn's a dangerous anti-British idiot. I hope we don't live to see the smoking ruin he would inflict upon this country.
Mr. Thompson, but do you think a vote will go ahead?
The Tories do not own Englishness.
There is a hell of a storm building, and hurricaine Jezza will obliterate the Tories.0 -
No argument with that but you need to move on - TM will negotiate Brexit - after that a successor will need to be foundTheScreamingEagles said:
We are still living with that now, Mrs May doesn't have a future, it is a case of when she goes not if.Big_G_NorthWales said:
We are beyond that now - Friday is a big moment - indeed it could decide not only the shape of Brexit but also TM's futureTheScreamingEagles said:
Nah the biggest moment so far in Brexit was Mrs May called an election to increase the majority bequeathed to her by David Cameron to crush the saboteurs, and well lost that majority.Big_G_NorthWales said:Sky reporting Theresa May's speech in Florence will be attended by Boris, Hammond and Davis
The spotlight on TM today turns to her address at the United Nations over terrorism and in particular the role of facebook, twitter and social media in publication of terror information. She will share the address with Macron and the Italian PM.
She is putting herself on the global stage and it sets up her for her Florence speech
Whether you are a remainer, leaver or re-leaver (like myself) this has to be the biggest moment so far in Brexit0 -
What is the Lib Dem policy on Trident now?foxinsoxuk said:
Ditching Trident would be a positive, but I think Corbyn shaped Brexit would be a good thing too.Morris_Dancer said:Dr. Foxinsox, I fear the glorious revolution will be less magnificent than you hope.
Trident will be thrown away on a permanent basis. The state, still heavily indebted after Labour's last stint, will have its deficit balloon rather than diminish. More blind eyes for cultural sensitivity, one imagines.
Workers and environmental protections sorted, and a less xenophobic policy towards our EU friends and neighbours. Sorting out generational unfairness too.
The Tories abandoned pretence at economic competence with Brexit. If we are going on a blow out budget, at least spend it on stuff worth having.
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You only think that because you have been blind sided by him, comrade.foxinsoxuk said:
I think that he is highly likely to be PM. Those scares did not work in June, and will not again.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Corbyn sided with the IRA, entertains terrorist groups and models his economics on Venezeula, that well known thriving democracy in South America. He will not be PMfoxinsoxuk said:
Corbyn is not anti English, or anti UK, but rather represents a different strand of Englishness. He comes from a long tradition of English radicalism, with roots in the Levellers, the Tolpuddle Martyrs, the Peterloo massacre, the Chartists, the Labour party, the ILP, CND, the Bennites and many others.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Looking at the strangle hold momentum and the hard left are acquiring the next election, with Corbyn leading, will be very different and will come under a lot more scrutiny. This Country will not elect a marxist anti UK party.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Flashman (deceased), Leeds fans have long been renowned for their subtle and intellectual prognostications. [As an aside, most of the replies are actually praising the Leeds fans].
Dr. Foxinsox, Corbyn's a dangerous anti-British idiot. I hope we don't live to see the smoking ruin he would inflict upon this country.
Mr. Thompson, but do you think a vote will go ahead?
The Tories do not own Englishness.
There is a hell of a storm building, and hurricaine Jezza will obliterate the Tories.0 -