politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Corbyn keeps his shirt on in Poldark country
politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Corbyn keeps his shirt on in Poldark country
Video: Footage of Jeremy Corbyn campaigning in Redruth last month.
Comments
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First.0
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Second! Like Corbyn...0
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Sixteenth like Vince Cable!CarlottaVance said:Second! Like Corbyn...
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Labour have a scarcely believable opportunity to gather the business vote. For as long as the Conservatives pursue Brexit, the great majority of businessmen and women who supported Remain and who are watching the floundering negotiations with appalled disbelief are going to be looking at their options.0
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It is fair to say at GE17 the Tories tested to destruction "always keep a-hold of Nurse for fear of finding something worse"....AlastairMeeks said:Labour have a scarcely believable opportunity to gather the business vote. For as long as the Conservatives pursue Brexit, the great majority of businessmen and women who supported Remain and who are watching the floundering negotiations with appalled disbelief are going to be looking at their options.
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It will be first next time for Corbyn!CarlottaVance said:Second! Like Corbyn...
I see the bandwagon is in Broxtowe at the end of the month. Jezza likes campaigning, and the momentum team don't just appear at election time.
Leadership bettors should note that Ashworth is part of the roadshow. The NHS is a core Labour campaign issue, but Ashworth is also a classic apparatchik organiser who has not offended either wing of the party.0 -
That sounds like a coded tip for next Labour leader. I would agree that Ashworth has to be in with a shout.foxinsoxuk said:
It will be first next time for Corbyn!CarlottaVance said:Second! Like Corbyn...
I see the bandwagon is in Broxtowe at the end of the month. Jezza likes campaigning, and the momentum team don't just appear at election time.
Leadership bettors should note that Ashworth is part of the roadshow. The NHS is a core Labour campaign issue, but Ashworth is also a classic apparatchik organiser who has not offended either wing of the party.0 -
EU court decides all states must take refugees and any state not doing so must pay the others
http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/ausland/wie-die-umverteilung-der-fluechtlinge-aussehen-wird-15190851.html0 -
Yes but when have Labour ever done anything that is good for business? Labour will have to suspend belief as does the audience in the play Warhorse... A trick unlikely to succeed in politics especially with Corbyn as leader..AlastairMeeks said:Labour have a scarcely believable opportunity to gather the business vote. For as long as the Conservatives pursue Brexit, the great majority of businessmen and women who supported Remain and who are watching the floundering negotiations with appalled disbelief are going to be looking at their options.
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Less than supportive views for Gerry Adams style of leadership
https://sluggerotoole.com/2017/09/10/ten-more-years-ten-more-years/0 -
Although the Conservatives, who usually hoover up that vote, are totally failing to demonstrate what business believes is the cardinal virtue, competence. And what’s worse they are disunited.SquareRoot said:
Yes but when have Labour ever done anything that is good for business? Labour will have to suspend belief as does the audience in the play Warhorse... A trick unlikely to succeed in politics especially with Corbyn as leader..AlastairMeeks said:Labour have a scarcely believable opportunity to gather the business vote. For as long as the Conservatives pursue Brexit, the great majority of businessmen and women who supported Remain and who are watching the floundering negotiations with appalled disbelief are going to be looking at their options.
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Good morning, everyone.
I'm sure nationalisations, hiking taxes, squeezing the rich until the pips squeak and a socialist vision of Venezuelan economics will go down a treat.0 -
People vote for reasons other than self-interest, so one could imagine some business owners voting for Labour because they think the country would benefit (I would disagree).Morris_Dancer said:Good morning, everyone.
I'm sure nationalisations, hiking taxes, squeezing the rich until the pips squeak and a socialist vision of Venezuelan economics will go down a treat.
I would find it hard to believe that any business owner would vote for a Corbyn-led party in the belief that their own business would benefit.0 -
With their loony and economically suicidal policy of Brexit the Tories have given up their right to lecture anybody on being the party of business. This is just like the corn laws in the 19th century.SquareRoot said:
Yes but when have Labour ever done anything that is good for business? Labour will have to suspend belief as does the audience in the play Warhorse... A trick unlikely to succeed in politics especially with Corbyn as leader..AlastairMeeks said:Labour have a scarcely believable opportunity to gather the business vote. For as long as the Conservatives pursue Brexit, the great majority of businessmen and women who supported Remain and who are watching the floundering negotiations with appalled disbelief are going to be looking at their options.
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That can't be right!Alanbrooke said:EU court decides all states must take refugees and any state not doing so must pay the others
http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/ausland/wie-die-umverteilung-der-fluechtlinge-aussehen-wird-15190851.html
I thought Hungary was a sovereign nation?0 -
Mr. Charles/Mr. Brooke, all states? Including the UK?0
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No, it's really not. At the time of the corn laws the Tories were the standing up for the biggest industry in the country (albeit in an unhelpful manner but they weren't as smart as Peel)MikeSmithson said:
With their loony and economically suicidal policy of Brexit the Tories have given up their right to lecture anybody on being the party of business. This is just like the corn laws in the 19th century.SquareRoot said:
Yes but when have Labour ever done anything that is good for business? Labour will have to suspend belief as does the audience in the play Warhorse... A trick unlikely to succeed in politics especially with Corbyn as leader..AlastairMeeks said:Labour have a scarcely believable opportunity to gather the business vote. For as long as the Conservatives pursue Brexit, the great majority of businessmen and women who supported Remain and who are watching the floundering negotiations with appalled disbelief are going to be looking at their options.
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Tories are to business what sacculina are to crabs.0
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Would those be the corn laws that helped business by causing starvation for the common man?MikeSmithson said:
With their loony and economically suicidal policy of Brexit the Tories have given up their right to lecture anybody on being the party of business. This is just like the corn laws in the 19th century.SquareRoot said:
Yes but when have Labour ever done anything that is good for business? Labour will have to suspend belief as does the audience in the play Warhorse... A trick unlikely to succeed in politics especially with Corbyn as leader..AlastairMeeks said:Labour have a scarcely believable opportunity to gather the business vote. For as long as the Conservatives pursue Brexit, the great majority of businessmen and women who supported Remain and who are watching the floundering negotiations with appalled disbelief are going to be looking at their options.
Brexit will be a success because it will make the life of the poorest better again; whether it is in the reduction of competition for scarce public resources or the increase in pay for those low paid private sector workerswho need it most.0 -
We launched and grew our business under the last Labour government. But Corbyn Labour is a very different beast. If you believe in redistribution - as I do - then you have to be equally as focused on creating an environment in which wealth creation can flourish. The Tories are clearly not very interested in doing that; but sadly, despite what Don writes, neither is Jeremy Corbyn's Labour party. Frankly, it has absolutely no idea. However, they are both as bad as each other for business is a big step forward for the far-left, so there is an opportunity there, clearly.AlastairMeeks said:Labour have a scarcely believable opportunity to gather the business vote. For as long as the Conservatives pursue Brexit, the great majority of businessmen and women who supported Remain and who are watching the floundering negotiations with appalled disbelief are going to be looking at their options.
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I expect you are not even joking, when you spout that horse manure, either.Mortimer said:
Would those be the corn laws that helped business by causing starvation for the common man?MikeSmithson said:
With their loony and economically suicidal policy of Brexit the Tories have given up their right to lecture anybody on being the party of business. This is just like the corn laws in the 19th century.SquareRoot said:
Yes but when have Labour ever done anything that is good for business? Labour will have to suspend belief as does the audience in the play Warhorse... A trick unlikely to succeed in politics especially with Corbyn as leader..AlastairMeeks said:Labour have a scarcely believable opportunity to gather the business vote. For as long as the Conservatives pursue Brexit, the great majority of businessmen and women who supported Remain and who are watching the floundering negotiations with appalled disbelief are going to be looking at their options.
Brexit will be a success because it will make the life of the poorest better again; whether it is in the reduction of competition for scarce public resources or the increase in pay for those low paid private sector workerswho need it most.0 -
When will this happen? The only way immigration is going to fall in any significant way is if the economy tanks.Mortimer said:
Would those be the corn laws that helped business by causing starvation for the common man?MikeSmithson said:
With their loony and economically suicidal policy of Brexit the Tories have given up their right to lecture anybody on being the party of business. This is just like the corn laws in the 19th century.SquareRoot said:
Yes but when have Labour ever done anything that is good for business? Labour will have to suspend belief as does the audience in the play Warhorse... A trick unlikely to succeed in politics especially with Corbyn as leader..AlastairMeeks said:Labour have a scarcely believable opportunity to gather the business vote. For as long as the Conservatives pursue Brexit, the great majority of businessmen and women who supported Remain and who are watching the floundering negotiations with appalled disbelief are going to be looking at their options.
Brexit will be a success because it will make the life of the poorest better again; whether it is in the reduction of competition for scarce public resources or the increase in pay for those low paid private sector workerswho need it most.
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They used to call it the brain drain.SouthamObserver said:
When will this happen? The only way immigration is going to fall in any significant way is if the economy tanks.Mortimer said:
Would those be the corn laws that helped business by causing starvation for the common man?MikeSmithson said:
With their loony and economically suicidal policy of Brexit the Tories have given up their right to lecture anybody on being the party of business. This is just like the corn laws in the 19th century.SquareRoot said:
Yes but when have Labour ever done anything that is good for business? Labour will have to suspend belief as does the audience in the play Warhorse... A trick unlikely to succeed in politics especially with Corbyn as leader..AlastairMeeks said:Labour have a scarcely believable opportunity to gather the business vote. For as long as the Conservatives pursue Brexit, the great majority of businessmen and women who supported Remain and who are watching the floundering negotiations with appalled disbelief are going to be looking at their options.
Brexit will be a success because it will make the life of the poorest better again; whether it is in the reduction of competition for scarce public resources or the increase in pay for those low paid private sector workerswho need it most.0 -
While a woman leader would be desired by many in the party, others would like someone with a northern working class background. Policy and ability probably trumps either of these. Gender should not be a deal breaker. His politics are fairly mainstream, but I think Momentum and Unions like his organisational skills.SandyRentool said:
That sounds like a coded tip for next Labour leader. I would agree that Ashworth has to be in with a shout.foxinsoxuk said:
It will be first next time for Corbyn!CarlottaVance said:Second! Like Corbyn...
I see the bandwagon is in Broxtowe at the end of the month. Jezza likes campaigning, and the momentum team don't just appear at election time.
Leadership bettors should note that Ashworth is part of the roadshow. The NHS is a core Labour campaign issue, but Ashworth is also a classic apparatchik organiser who has not offended either wing of the party.
He is local MP to me, and has grown on me considerably. He will be an excellent minister, but PM? on the other hand he has good odds, and has that John Major-like ability to rise through the middle by offending no one. The odds are good at BF.0 -
If you said offering the referendum was a loony policy I would agree, but brexit itself as opposed to the way it is implemented is not a Tory policy.MikeSmithson said:
With their loony and economically suicidal policy of Brexit the Tories have given up their right to lecture anybody on being the party of business. This is just like the corn laws in the 19th century.SquareRoot said:
Yes but when have Labour ever done anything that is good for business? Labour will have to suspend belief as does the audience in the play Warhorse... A trick unlikely to succeed in politics especially with Corbyn as leader..AlastairMeeks said:Labour have a scarcely believable opportunity to gather the business vote. For as long as the Conservatives pursue Brexit, the great majority of businessmen and women who supported Remain and who are watching the floundering negotiations with appalled disbelief are going to be looking at their options.
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Yep - if the August policy paper is anything to go by, the government's strategy seems to be to focus on bringing in large numbers of low-skilled EU guest-workers while making the UK a much less attractive place to come to than it has been up to now for highly-skilled EU citizens.Jonathan said:
They used to call it the brain drain.SouthamObserver said:
When will this happen? The only way immigration is going to fall in any significant way is if the economy tanks.Mortimer said:
Would those be the corn laws that helped business by causing starvation for the common man?MikeSmithson said:
With their loony and economically suicidal policy of Brexit the Tories have given up their right to lecture anybody on being the party of business. This is just like the corn laws in the 19th century.SquareRoot said:
Yes but when have Labour ever done anything that is good for business? Labour will have to suspend belief as does the audience in the play Warhorse... A trick unlikely to succeed in politics especially with Corbyn as leader..AlastairMeeks said:Labour have a scarcely believable opportunity to gather the business vote. For as long as the Conservatives pursue Brexit, the great majority of businessmen and women who supported Remain and who are watching the floundering negotiations with appalled disbelief are going to be looking at their options.
Brexit will be a success because it will make the life of the poorest better again; whether it is in the reduction of competition for scarce public resources or the increase in pay for those low paid private sector workerswho need it most.0 -
In my world the main beneficiary of Brexit so far has been our Berlin office. The uncertainty was the tipping point.SouthamObserver said:
Yep - if the August policy paper is anything to go by, the government's strategy seems to be to focus on bringing in large numbers of low-skilled EU guest-workers while making the UK a much less attractive place to come to than it has been up to now for highly-skilled EU citizens.Jonathan said:
They used to call it the brain drain.SouthamObserver said:
When will this happen? The only way immigration is going to fall in any significant way is if the economy tanks.Mortimer said:
Would those be the corn laws that helped business by causing starvation for the common man?MikeSmithson said:
With their loony and economically suicidal policy of Brexit the Tories have given up their right to lecture anybody on being the party of business. This is just like the corn laws in the 19th century.SquareRoot said:
Yes but when have Labour ever done anything that is good for business? Labour will have to suspend belief as does the audience in the play Warhorse... A trick unlikely to succeed in politics especially with Corbyn as leader..AlastairMeeks said:Labour have a scarcely believable opportunity to gather the business vote. For as long as the Conservatives pursue Brexit, the great majority of businessmen and women who supported Remain and who are watching the floundering negotiations with appalled disbelief are going to be looking at their options.
Brexit will be a success because it will make the life of the poorest better again; whether it is in the reduction of competition for scarce public resources or the increase in pay for those low paid private sector workerswho need it most.0 -
I think you've made a leap or 2 in logic there and the intermediate steps have flawed logic in that when corrected means its likely low paid private sector workers won't be seeing pay rises beyond mandatory living wage increases.Mortimer said:increase in pay for those low paid private sector workerswho need it most.
Given the current state of various parts of the economy (I have a suspicion that a lot of companies are earning enough cashflow to just about keep going) I suspect many will be lucky to keep their jobs..0 -
We have done very well out of the fall in the pound as we bill mainly in dollars and euros. Our major investments are now going into our US and Asian operations, while we are also looking to open up an office in the Single Market. Well-paid jobs we would have created in the UK, as well as taxes we would have paid here, will now go elsewhere.Jonathan said:
In my world the main beneficiary of Brexit so far has been our Berlin office. The uncertainty was the tipping point.SouthamObserver said:
Yep - if the August policy paper is anything to go by, the government's strategy seems to be to focus on bringing in large numbers of low-skilled EU guest-workers while making the UK a much less attractive place to come to than it has been up to now for highly-skilled EU citizens.Jonathan said:
They used to call it the brain drain.SouthamObserver said:
When will this happen? The only way immigration is going to fall in any significant way is if the economy tanks.Mortimer said:
Would those be the corn laws that helped business by causing starvation for the common man?MikeSmithson said:
With their loony and economically suicidal policy of Brexit the Tories have given up their right to lecture anybody on being the party of business. This is just like the corn laws in the 19th century.SquareRoot said:
Yes but when have Labour ever done anything that is good for business? Labour will have to suspend belief as does the audience in the play Warhorse... A trick unlikely to succeed in politics especially with Corbyn as leader..AlastairMeeks said:Labour have a scarcely believable opportunity to gather the business vote. For as long as the Conservatives pursue Brexit, the great majority of businessmen and women who supported Remain and who are watching the floundering negotiations with appalled disbelief are going to be looking at their options.
Brexit will be a success because it will make the life of the poorest better again; whether it is in the reduction of competition for scarce public resources or the increase in pay for those low paid private sector workerswho need it most.
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Falmouth and Cannot be was won by Blair in 1997, 2001 and 2005 so not that surprising Cannot be and Redruth are now in the list of Labour targets given it is closer nationally.
It is all very well Labour having Business Liason Officers, there is even a Conservative Trade Unionists Group but it is the policies that count0 -
Very interesting indeed, esp the suggestion that Hungary and co can do what they like without fear of reprisals because the EU dare not open a war on another front while brexit is happening.Alanbrooke said:EU court decides all states must take refugees and any state not doing so must pay the others
http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/ausland/wie-die-umverteilung-der-fluechtlinge-aussehen-wird-15190851.html
If I were the government I would form a clandestine ministry of truth with the remit of pointing and laughing at the EU over non brexit issues like this, to remind people that there really is a lot of stuff we are better off without. They could probably buy up the whole of Bell Pottinger pretty cheap and set them to work on this0 -
The 2 year visa for low skilled EU workers and the longer 4 to 5 year visa for EU workers simply matches current UK immigration policy for the rest of the world outside the EU and of course EU citizens already resident in the UK will get permanent residencySouthamObserver said:
Yep - if the August policy paper is anything to go by, the government's strategy seems to be to focus on bringing in large numbers of low-skilled EU guest-workers while making the UK a much less attractive place to come to than it has been up to now for highly-skilled EU citizens.Jonathan said:
They used to call it the brain drain.SouthamObserver said:
When will this happen? The only way immigration is going to fall in any significant way is if the economy tanks.Mortimer said:
Would those be the corn laws that helped business by causing starvation for the common man?MikeSmithson said:
With their loony and economically suicidal policy of Brexit the Tories have given up their right to lecture anybody on being the party of business. This is just like the corn laws in the 19th century.SquareRoot said:
Yes but when have Labour ever done anything that is good for business? Labour will have to suspend belief as does the audience in the play Warhorse... A trick unlikely to succeed in politics especially with Corbyn as leader..AlastairMeeks said:Labour have a scarcely believable opportunity to gather the business vote. For as long as the Conservatives pursue Brexit, the great majority of businessmen and women who supported Remain and who are watching the floundering negotiations with appalled disbelief are going to be looking at their options.
Brexit will be a success because it will make the life of the poorest better again; whether it is in the reduction of competition for scarce public resources or the increase in pay for those low paid private sector workerswho need it most.0 -
Brexit wasn't the only factor. London is too expensive in almost every respect . But the sheer uncertainty of it all isn't worth the bother/ risk right now.SouthamObserver said:
We have done very well out of the fall in the pound as we bill mainly in dollars and euros. Our major investments are now going into our US and Asian operations, while we are also looking to open up an office in the Single Market. Well-paid jobs we would have created in the UK, as well as taxes we would have paid here, will now go elsewhere.Jonathan said:
In my world the main beneficiary of Brexit so far has been our Berlin office. The uncertainty was the tipping point.SouthamObserver said:
Yep - if the August policy paper is anything to go by, the government's strategy seems to be to focus on bringing in large numbers of low-skilled EU guest-workers while making the UK a much less attractive place to come to than it has been up to now for highly-skilled EU citizens.Jonathan said:
They used to call it the brain drain.SouthamObserver said:
When will this happen? The only way immigration is going to fall in any significant way is if the economy tanks.Mortimer said:
Would those be the corn laws that helped business by causing starvation for the common man?MikeSmithson said:
With their loony and economically suicidal policy of Brexit the Tories have given up their right to lecture anybody on being the party of business. This is just like the corn laws in the 19th century.SquareRoot said:
Yes but when have Labour ever done anything that is good for business? Labour will have to suspend belief as does the audience in the play Warhorse... A trick unlikely to succeed in politics especially with Corbyn as leader..AlastairMeeks said:Labour have a scarcely believable opportunity to gather the business vote. For as long as the Conservatives pursue Brexit, the great majority of businessmen and women who supported Remain and who are watching the floundering negotiations with appalled disbelief are going to be looking at their options.
Brexit will be a success because it will make the life of the poorest better again; whether it is in the reduction of competition for scarce public resources or the increase in pay for those low paid private sector workerswho need it most.0 -
Cable probably has a better shot of appealing to businesspeople disillusioned with Brexit, especially medium and large businesspeopleAlastairMeeks said:Labour have a scarcely believable opportunity to gather the business vote. For as long as the Conservatives pursue Brexit, the great majority of businessmen and women who supported Remain and who are watching the floundering negotiations with appalled disbelief are going to be looking at their options.
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He will have a shot if Corbyn wins the next general election as will Thornberry and McDonnell, if Corbyn loses the next general election then Umunna or Cooper will be back in the frameSandyRentool said:
That sounds like a coded tip for next Labour leader. I would agree that Ashworth has to be in with a shout.foxinsoxuk said:
It will be first next time for Corbyn!CarlottaVance said:Second! Like Corbyn...
I see the bandwagon is in Broxtowe at the end of the month. Jezza likes campaigning, and the momentum team don't just appear at election time.
Leadership bettors should note that Ashworth is part of the roadshow. The NHS is a core Labour campaign issue, but Ashworth is also a classic apparatchik organiser who has not offended either wing of the party.0 -
Correction, the LDs won Falmouth and Camborne in 2005 but Labour won it in 1997 and 2001HYUFD said:Falmouth and Camborne was won by Blair in 1997, 2001 and 2005 so not that surprising Camborne and Redruth and Truro and Falmouth are now in the list of Labour targets given it is closer nationally.
It is all very well Labour having Business Liason Officers, there is even a Conservative Trade Unionists Group but it is the policies that count0 -
Yep - we are going to have a guest-worker immigration regime for low-skilled EU citizens; and we are going to make the UK a far less attractive proposition than it has been up to now for high-skilled EU citizens. This will not help low-paid, low-skilled UK workers.HYUFD said:
The 2 year visa for low skilled EU workers and the longer 4 to 5 year visa for EU workers simply matches current UK immigration policy for the rest of the world outside the EU and of course EU citizens already resident in the UK will get permanent residencySouthamObserver said:
Yep - if the August policy paper is anything to go by, the government's strategy seems to be to focus on bringing in large numbers of low-skilled EU guest-workers while making the UK a much less attractive place to come to than it has been up to now for highly-skilled EU citizens.Jonathan said:
They used to call it the brain drain.SouthamObserver said:
When will this happen? The only way immigration is going to fall in any significant way is if the economy tanks.Mortimer said:
Would those be the corn laws that helped business by causing starvation for the common man?MikeSmithson said:
With their loony and economically suicidal policy of Brexit the Tories have given up their right to lecture anybody on being the party of business. This is just like the corn laws in the 19th century.SquareRoot said:
Yes but when have Labour ever done anything that is good for business? Labour will have to suspend belief as does the audience in the play Warhorse... A trick unlikely to succeed in politics especially with Corbyn as leader..AlastairMeeks said:Labour have a scarcely believable opportunity to gather the business vote. For as long as the Conservatives pursue Brexit, the great majority of businessmen and women who supported Remain and who are watching the floundering negotiations with appalled disbelief are going to be looking at their options.
Brexit will be a success because it will make the life of the poorest better again; whether it is in the reduction of competition for scarce public resources or the increase in pay for those low paid private sector workerswho need it most.
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Decent analysis of the latest Panelbase Scottish poll from James Kelly:
http://scotgoespop.blogspot.co.uk/2017/09/enormous-lead-for-snp-in-first-post.html
How the reality of Brexit changes things - if it does at all - is probably the big question in Scotland between now and the next GE. I suspect that if Labour did form the next UK government, Scottish independence would cease to be an issue. On the other hand, if the Tories got back in after taking us over the cliff it could be a very different story. But what do I know?
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Over the last decade low paid UK workers have seen their incomes fall because of immigration but high paid UK workers have seen their incomes rise because of immigration (according to a study in yesterday's Sunday Times mentioned by Dominic Lawson) so setting 2 year visas for low skilled immigration should reduce downwards pressure on wages at the lower end while the longer 4 to 5 year visas for high skilled immigration should ensure we still get enough high skilled workersSouthamObserver said:
Yep - we are going to have a guest-worker immigration regime for low-skilled EU citizens; and we are going to make the UK a far less attractive proposition than it has been up to now for high-skilled EU citizens. This will not help low-paid, low-skilled UK workers.HYUFD said:
The 2 year visa for low skilled EU workers and the e EU citizens already resident in the UK will get permanent residencySouthamObserver said:
Yep - if the August policy paper is anything to go by, the government's strategy seems to be to focus on bringing in large numbers of low-skilled EU guest-workers while making the UK a much less attractive place to come to than it has been up to now for highly-skilled EU citizens.Jonathan said:
They used to call it the brain drain.SouthamObserver said:
When will this happen? The only way immigration is going to fall in any significant way is if the economy tanks.Mortimer said:
Would those be the corn laws that helped business by causing starvation for the common man?MikeSmithson said:
With their loony and economically suicidal policy of Brexit the Tories have given up their right to lecture anybody on being the party of business. This is just like the corn laws in the 19th century.SquareRoot said:
Yes but when have Labour ever done anything that is good for business? Labour will have to suspend belief as does the audience in the play Warhorse... A trick unlikely to succeed in politics especially with Corbyn as leader..AlastairMeeks said:Labour have a scarcely believable opportunity to gather the business vote. For as long as the Conservatives pursue Brexit, the great majority of businessmen and women who supported Remain and who are watching the floundering negotiations with appalled disbelief are going to be looking at their options.
Brexit will be a success because it will make the life of the poorest better again; whether it is in the reduction of competition for scarce public resources or the increase in pay for those low paid private sector workerswho need it most.0 -
The economy and the pound will decide how the low-paid and low-skilled fare. Depending on how they perform, we will either need to bring in a lot of guest-workers, or we won't. Either way, wages do not look like they are heading for a demand-driven explosion at the bottom end. At the higher end, it may well be different, precisely because we are making the UK a less attractive place for those with a choice in these things to come and work. To compensate for that, wages will have to be a lot higher - either to make UK citizens switch jobs or to make it worth coming here.HYUFD said:
Over the last decade low paid UK workers have seen their incomes fall because of immigration but high paid UK workers have seen their incomes rise because of immigration so setting 2 year visas for low skilled immigration should reduce downwards pressure on wages at the lower end while the longer 4 to 5 year visas for high skilled immigration should ensure we still get enough high skilled workersSouthamObserver said:
Yep - we UK workers.HYUFD said:
The 2 year visa for low skilled EU workers and the longer 4 to 5 year visa for EU workers simply matches current UK immigration policy for the rest of the world outside the EU and of course EU citizens already resident in the UK will get permanent residencySouthamObserver said:
Yep - -skilled EU citizens.Jonathan said:
They used to call it the brain drain.SouthamObserver said:
When will this happen? The only way immigration is going to fall in any significant way is if the economy tanks.Mortimer said:
Would those be the corn laws that helped business by causing starvation for the common man?MikeSmithson said:
With their loony and economically suicidal policy of Brexit the Tories have given up their right to lecture anybody on being the party of business. This is just like the corn laws in the 19th century.SquareRoot said:
Yesas leader..AlastairMeeks said:Labour have a scarcely believable opportunity to gather the business vote. For as long as the Conservatives pursue Brexit, the great majority of businessmen and women who supported Remain and who are watching the floundering negotiations with appalled disbelief are going to be looking at their options.
Brexit will be a success because it will make the life of the poorest better again; whether it is in the reduction of competition for scarce public resources or the increase in pay for those low paid private sector workerswho need it most.
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Throughout the West Country, support for the Lib Dems has collapsed. Some of that support has gone to the Conservatives, more of it to Labour, so they have a lot of strong second places now, in seats where previously, their support had been reduced to a rump.0
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Except the Tories now have 11 seats in Scotland all but one gained post BrexitSouthamObserver said:Decent analysis of the latest Panelbase Scottish poll from James Kelly:
http://scotgoespop.blogspot.co.uk/2017/09/enormous-lead-for-snp-in-first-post.html
How the reality of Brexit changes things - if it does at all - is probably the big question in Scotland between now and the next GE. I suspect that if Labour did form the next UK government, Scottish independence would cease to be an issue. On the other hand, if the Tories got back in after taking us over the cliff it could be a very different story. But what do I know?0 -
Morning all,
I suspect businesses will want to engage with Labour now, as it seems there is a good chance of them forming the next government. Unless Tories can do something about their under-50 vote problem, then the clock is ticking.0 -
This deduction is either the work of a genius or an idiot! I haven't worked out which yet?... I am erring towards the latter.Mortimer said:
Would those be the corn laws that helped business by causing starvation for the common man?MikeSmithson said:
With their loony and economically suicidal policy of Brexit the Tories have given up their right to lecture anybody on being the party of business. This is just like the corn laws in the 19th century.SquareRoot said:
Yes but when have Labour ever done anything that is good for business? Labour will have to suspend belief as does the audience in the play Warhorse... A trick unlikely to succeed in politics especially with Corbyn as leader..AlastairMeeks said:Labour have a scarcely believable opportunity to gather the business vote. For as long as the Conservatives pursue Brexit, the great majority of businessmen and women who supported Remain and who are watching the floundering negotiations with appalled disbelief are going to be looking at their options.
Brexit will be a success because it will make the life of the poorest better again; whether it is in the reduction of competition for scarce public resources or the increase in pay for those low paid private sector workers who need it most.0 -
Bootle:
"The pessimists are in for a shock."
"It looks as though by the end of the year we may be experiencing growth in exports of between 10pc and 15pc per annum..."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/09/10/ignore-naysayers-competitive-pound-positive-economy/0 -
It's striking how much that coalition deal stuffed the Lib Dems and changed the face of our politics.Sean_F said:Throughout the West Country, support for the Lib Dems has collapsed. Some of that support has gone to the Conservatives, more of it to Labour, so they have a lot of strong second places now, in seats where previously, their support had been reduced to a rump.
0 -
Falmouth and Cambourne was Lib dem in 2005, Labour have not held it since 2001. Coming back to the thread, Labour's footprint is still poor in Cornwall and I think that their impressive gains in 2017 were a high water mark. My feeling is that a split anti Tory vote will be a problem for both Green, Lab and Lib Dems in this part of the world.HYUFD said:Falmouth and Cannot be was won by Blair in 1997, 2001 and 2005 so not that surprising Cannot be and Redruth are now in the list of Labour targets given it is closer nationally.
It is all very well Labour having Business Liason Officers, there is even a Conservative Trade Unionists Group but it is the policies that count0 -
Yep, the Tories have certainly returned in Scotland. But the Tory vote alone would not prevent independence. That will depend on the Labour and LibDem vote, too. With a Labour government in Westminster, the Union is pretty much assured. With a Tory government pursuing right-wing policies post-Brexit, it may be less so. We shall see.HYUFD said:
Except the Tories now have 11 seats in Scotland all but one gained post BrexitSouthamObserver said:Decent analysis of the latest Panelbase Scottish poll from James Kelly:
http://scotgoespop.blogspot.co.uk/2017/09/enormous-lead-for-snp-in-first-post.html
How the reality of Brexit changes things - if it does at all - is probably the big question in Scotland between now and the next GE. I suspect that if Labour did form the next UK government, Scottish independence would cease to be an issue. On the other hand, if the Tories got back in after taking us over the cliff it could be a very different story. But what do I know?
0 -
There's a book to be written on the strange death of LibDems in South West. This area had been one of their absolute heartlands throughout my life.Jonathan said:
It's striking how much that coalition deal stuffed the Lib Dems and changed the face of our politics.Sean_F said:Throughout the West Country, support for the Lib Dems has collapsed. Some of that support has gone to the Conservatives, more of it to Labour, so they have a lot of strong second places now, in seats where previously, their support had been reduced to a rump.
0 -
I fear Mortimer will be disappointed when as many visas are issued as there are migrants now.Mexicanpete said:
This deduction is either the work of a genius or an idiot! I haven't worked out which yet?... I am erring towards the latter.Mortimer said:
Would those be the corn laws that helped business by causing starvation for the common man?MikeSmithson said:
With their loony and economically suicidal policy of Brexit the Tories have given up their right to lecture anybody on being the party of business. This is just like the corn laws in the 19th century.SquareRoot said:
Yes but when have Labour ever done anything that is good for business? Labour will have to suspend belief as does the audience in the play Warhorse... A trick unlikely to succeed in politics especially with Corbyn as leader..AlastairMeeks said:Labour have a scarcely believable opportunity to gather the business vote. For as long as the Conservatives pursue Brexit, the great majority of businessmen and women who supported Remain and who are watching the floundering negotiations with appalled disbelief are going to be looking at their options.
Brexit will be a success because it will make the life of the poorest better again; whether it is in the reduction of competition for scarce public resources or the increase in pay for those low paid private sector workers who need it most.0 -
Mr. Borough, is that not due to the Lib Dems suffering through both always wanting coalition, yet spending most of their time talking about what they stopped the Conservatives doing rather than claiming credit, and that a lot of voters [unfairly] treated them as Labour-Light and were outraged when the party they voted for had the temerity to, er, enter government?0
-
Something is very badly wrong if we cannot continue to up our exports to our biggest foreign market at a time when it is experiencing significant growth and the pound is so low.rottenborough said:Bootle:
"The pessimists are in for a shock."
"It looks as though by the end of the year we may be experiencing growth in exports of between 10pc and 15pc per annum..."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/09/10/ignore-naysayers-competitive-pound-positive-economy/
0 -
I think James Kelly is right that there is a ceiling of 30% for Scottish Conservatives, enough to win back their historic areas of strength.SouthamObserver said:
Yep, the Tories have certainly returned in Scotland. But the Tory vote alone would not prevent independence. That will depend on the Labour and LibDem vote, too. With a Labour government in Westminster, the Union is pretty much assured. With a Tory government pursuing right-wing policies post-Brexit, it may be less so. We shall see.HYUFD said:
Except the Tories now have 11 seats in Scotland all but one gained post BrexitSouthamObserver said:Decent analysis of the latest Panelbase Scottish poll from James Kelly:
http://scotgoespop.blogspot.co.uk/2017/09/enormous-lead-for-snp-in-first-post.html
How the reality of Brexit changes things - if it does at all - is probably the big question in Scotland between now and the next GE. I suspect that if Labour did form the next UK government, Scottish independence would cease to be an issue. On the other hand, if the Tories got back in after taking us over the cliff it could be a very different story. But what do I know?0 -
As a long-term Lib and then LD I look at the Coalition’s record in such areas as the (almost) abolition of legal aid, the attacks on Welfare benefits, tuition fees (although that’s not as bad as it could have been) and their failure to stop Lansley’s splitting of Health Promotion and other aspects of Public Health away from the Health Service and wonder what I was doing all those years. The policies of the coalition were not what I had, over the years, canvassed and leaflets for.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Borough, is that not due to the Lib Dems suffering through both always wanting coalition, yet spending most of their time talking about what they stopped the Conservatives doing rather than claiming credit, and that a lot of voters [unfairly] treated them as Labour-Light and were outraged when the party they voted for had the temerity to, er, enter government?
I admit that I don’t think, given the overal economic situation in 2010 that Clegg and the Parliamentary Party had much choice in the short-term, but I frequently posted here from about 2012 onwards that it was time to leave the coalition.0 -
Yet the SNP fell to just 37% despite Brexit and a Tory governmentSouthamObserver said:
Yep, the Tories have certainly returned in Scotland. But the Tory vote alone would not prevent independence. That will depend on the Labour and LibDem vote, too. With a Labour government in Westminster, the Union is pretty much assured. With a Tory government pursuing right-wing policies post-Brexit, it may be less so. We shall see.HYUFD said:
Except the Tories now have 11 seats in Scotland all but one gained post BrexitSouthamObserver said:Decent analysis of the latest Panelbase Scottish poll from James Kelly:
http://scotgoespop.blogspot.co.uk/2017/09/enormous-lead-for-snp-in-first-post.html
How the reality of Brexit changes things - if it does at all - is probably the big question in Scotland between now and the next GE. I suspect that if Labour did form the next UK government, Scottish independence would cease to be an issue. On the other hand, if the Tories got back in after taking us over the cliff it could be a very different story. But what do I know?0 -
How could any tuition fee policy be worse than the one we currently have? If the fees don't kill you the interest rates they charge (RPI+3%) will...OldKingCole said:
As a long-term Lib and then LD I look at the Coalition’s record in such areas as the (almost) abolition of legal aid, the attacks on Welfare benefits, tuition fees (although that’s not as bad as it could have been) and their failure to stop Lansley’s splitting of Health Promotion and other aspects of Public Health away from the Health Service and wonder what I was doing all those years. The policies of the coalition were not what I had, over the years, canvassed and leaflets for.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Borough, is that not due to the Lib Dems suffering through both always wanting coalition, yet spending most of their time talking about what they stopped the Conservatives doing rather than claiming credit, and that a lot of voters [unfairly] treated them as Labour-Light and were outraged when the party they voted for had the temerity to, er, enter government?
I admit that I don’t think, given the overal economic situation in 2010 that Clegg and the Parliamentary Party had much choice in the short-term, but I frequently posted here from about 2012 onwards that it was time to leave the coalition.0 -
Is that just a unionist vote which will disappear once the SNP stops having a manifesto with indie on it?Sean_F said:
I think James Kelly is right that there is a ceiling of 30% for Scottish Conservatives, enough to win back their historic areas of strength.SouthamObserver said:
Yep, the Tories have certainly returned in Scotland. But the Tory vote alone would not prevent independence. That will depend on the Labour and LibDem vote, too. With a Labour government in Westminster, the Union is pretty much assured. With a Tory government pursuing right-wing policies post-Brexit, it may be less so. We shall see.HYUFD said:
Except the Tories now have 11 seats in Scotland all but one gained post BrexitSouthamObserver said:Decent analysis of the latest Panelbase Scottish poll from James Kelly:
http://scotgoespop.blogspot.co.uk/2017/09/enormous-lead-for-snp-in-first-post.html
How the reality of Brexit changes things - if it does at all - is probably the big question in Scotland between now and the next GE. I suspect that if Labour did form the next UK government, Scottish independence would cease to be an issue. On the other hand, if the Tories got back in after taking us over the cliff it could be a very different story. But what do I know?0 -
Yes apologies and I corrected earlier but Falmouth and Cambourne and its successor two seats are the realistic Labour targets in Cornwallswing_voter said:
Falmouth and Cambourne was Lib dem in 2005, Labour have not held it since 2001. Coming back to the thread, Labour's footprint is still poor in Cornwall and I think that their impressive gains in 2017 were a high water mark. My feeling is that a split anti Tory vote will be a problem for both Green, Lab and Lib Dems in this part of the world.HYUFD said:Falmouth and Cannot be was won by Blair in 1997, 2001 and 2005 so not that surprising Cannot be and Redruth are now in the list of Labour targets given it is closer nationally.
It is all very well Labour having Business Liason Officers, there is even a Conservative Trade Unionists Group but it is the policies that count0 -
The dementia tax was the 40 to 50 problem, in 2015 the Tories tied there while still losing under 30s in 2017 you had to be over 47 to be likely to vote Toryrottenborough said:Morning all,
I suspect businesses will want to engage with Labour now, as it seems there is a good chance of them forming the next government. Unless Tories can do something about their under-50 vote problem, then the clock is ticking.0 -
IIRC the original plan was for earlier repayments and the current fees were added later. Stand to be corrected, of course.eek said:
How could any tuition fee policy be worse than the one we currently have? If the fees don't kill you the interest rates they charge (RPI+3%) will...OldKingCole said:
As a long-term Lib and then LD I look at the Coalition’s record in such areas as the (almost) abolition of legal aid, the attacks on Welfare benefits, tuition fees (although that’s not as bad as it could have been) and their failure to stop Lansley’s splitting of Health Promotion and other aspects of Public Health away from the Health Service and wonder what I was doing all those years. The policies of the coalition were not what I had, over the years, canvassed and leaflets for.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Borough, is that not due to the Lib Dems suffering through both always wanting coalition, yet spending most of their time talking about what they stopped the Conservatives doing rather than claiming credit, and that a lot of voters [unfairly] treated them as Labour-Light and were outraged when the party they voted for had the temerity to, er, enter government?
I admit that I don’t think, given the overal economic situation in 2010 that Clegg and the Parliamentary Party had much choice in the short-term, but I frequently posted here from about 2012 onwards that it was time to leave the coalition.
TBH, the repayments don’t seem to be a cause of concern to my graduate grandchildren. And when we paid a (substantial) deposit on furniture for one of them tuition fees weren’t mentioned.0 -
Perhaps but remember C2s and DEs voted heavily Leave, ABs voted strongly Remain and C1s were almost tiedSouthamObserver said:
The economy and the pound will decide how the low-paid and low-skilled fare. Depending on how they perform, we will either need to bring in a lot of guest-workers, or we won't. Either way, wages do not look like they are heading for a demand-driven explosion at the bottom end. At the higher end, it may well be different, precisely because we are making the UK a less attractive place for those with a choice in these things to come and work. To compensate for that, wages will have to be a lot higher - either to make UK citizens switch jobs or to make it worth coming here.HYUFD said:
Over the last decade low paid UK workers have seen their incomes fall because of immigration but high paid UK workers have seen their incomes rise because of immigration so setting 2 year visas for low skilled immigration should reduce downwards pressure on wages at the lower end while the longer 4 to 5 year visas for high skilled immigration should ensure we still get enough high skilled workersSouthamObserver said:
Yep - we UK workers.HYUFD said:
The 2 year visa for low skilled EU workers and the longer 4 to 5 year visa for EU worSouthamObserver said:
Yep - -skilled EU citizens.Jonathan said:
They used to call it the brain drain.SouthamObserver said:
When will this happen? The only way immigration is going to fall in any significant way is if the economy tanks.Mortimer said:
Would those be the corn laws that helped business by causing starvation for the common man?MikeSmithson said:
With their loony and economically suicidal policy of Brexit the Tories have given up their right to lecture anybody on being the party of business. This is just like the corn laws in the 19th century.SquareRoot said:
Yesas leader..AlastairMeeks said:Labour have a scarcely believable opportunity to gather the business vote. For as long as the Conservatives pursue Brexit, the great majority of businessmen and women who supported Remain and who are watching the floundering negotiations with appalled disbelief are going to be looking at their options.
Brexit will be a success because it will make the life of the poorest better again; whether it is in the reduction of competition for scarce public resources or the increase in pay for those low paid private sector workerswho need it most.0 -
The LD MPs in the South West would typically campaign as eurosceptics (or keep quiet about the EU) and then we had Clegg debating for the EU followed by the promulgation of a pro-EU line by the LDs which has probably finished off the LDs in the area.rottenborough said:
There's a book to be written on the strange death of LibDems in South West. This area had been one of their absolute heartlands throughout my life.Jonathan said:
It's striking how much that coalition deal stuffed the Lib Dems and changed the face of our politics.Sean_F said:Throughout the West Country, support for the Lib Dems has collapsed. Some of that support has gone to the Conservatives, more of it to Labour, so they have a lot of strong second places now, in seats where previously, their support had been reduced to a rump.
0 -
Going to have to pull you up with some facts there. EU growth for 2017 is forecast barely above 2% - hardly 'significant growth' - historically this is a pretty poor performance and the indicators are that it has peaked.SouthamObserver said:
Something is very badly wrong if we cannot continue to up our exports to our biggest foreign market at a time when it is experiencing significant growth and the pound is so low.rottenborough said:Bootle:
"The pessimists are in for a shock."
"It looks as though by the end of the year we may be experiencing growth in exports of between 10pc and 15pc per annum..."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/09/10/ignore-naysayers-competitive-pound-positive-economy/
Before you point out how this is higher than the UK, UK economic growth has been 5% greater than the eurozone since 2008 (bloody Tories!). Not sure how was possible if we are totally reliant on EU growth.
Given the endless stream of negative propaganda about Brexit, the UK economy is performing pretty well. And, of course, unemployment in the UK is half what it is in the Eurozone.
If the UK is getting 10-15% export growth this is nothing short of phenomenal.
But obviously there is no way we can compete after Brexit etc etc.0 -
Indeed. The metropolitan style of the 2015 and 2017 elections was what did for the LDs there. They had forgotten their provincial roots.Allan said:
The LD MPs in the South West would typically campaign as eurosceptics (or keep quiet about the EU) and then we had Clegg debating for the EU followed by the promulgation of a pro-EU line by the LDs which has probably finished off the LDs in the area.rottenborough said:
There's a book to be written on the strange death of LibDems in South West. This area had been one of their absolute heartlands throughout my life.Jonathan said:
It's striking how much that coalition deal stuffed the Lib Dems and changed the face of our politics.Sean_F said:Throughout the West Country, support for the Lib Dems has collapsed. Some of that support has gone to the Conservatives, more of it to Labour, so they have a lot of strong second places now, in seats where previously, their support had been reduced to a rump.
The party is entirely out of step nationally with the activist base.
0 -
Current UK export growth is, surely due to the fall in the valiue of the £. Once stocks on non-local raw materials are exhausted, replacement will be more expensive and export prices will have to rise.archer101au said:
Going to have to pull you up with some facts there. EU growth for 2017 is forecast barely above 2% - hardly 'significant growth' - historically this is a pretty poor performance and the indicators are that it has peaked.SouthamObserver said:
Something is very badly wrong if we cannot continue to up our exports to our biggest foreign market at a time when it is experiencing significant growth and the pound is so low.rottenborough said:Bootle:
"The pessimists are in for a shock."
"It looks as though by the end of the year we may be experiencing growth in exports of between 10pc and 15pc per annum..."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/09/10/ignore-naysayers-competitive-pound-positive-economy/
Before you point out how this is higher than the UK, UK economic growth has been 5% greater than the eurozone since 2008 (bloody Tories!). Not sure how was possible if we are totally reliant on EU growth.
Given the endless stream of negative propaganda about Brexit, the UK economy is performing pretty well. And, of course, unemployment in the UK is half what it is in the Eurozone.
If the UK is getting 10-15% export growth this is nothing short of phenomenal.
But obviously there is no way we can compete after Brexit etc etc.0 -
S_O's eeyorish grumblings are well known. It's amazing he hasn't mentioned 'swivel-eyed' Tories or 'malevolent' Mrs May yet this morning...archer101au said:
Going to have to pull you up with some facts there. EU growth for 2017 is forecast barely above 2% - hardly 'significant growth' - historically this is a pretty poor performance and the indicators are that it has peaked.SouthamObserver said:
Something is very badly wrong if we cannot continue to up our exports to our biggest foreign market at a time when it is experiencing significant growth and the pound is so low.rottenborough said:Bootle:
"The pessimists are in for a shock."
"It looks as though by the end of the year we may be experiencing growth in exports of between 10pc and 15pc per annum..."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/09/10/ignore-naysayers-competitive-pound-positive-economy/
Before you point out how this is higher than the UK, UK economic growth has been 5% greater than the eurozone since 2008 (bloody Tories!). Not sure how was possible if we are totally reliant on EU growth.
Given the endless stream of negative propaganda about Brexit, the UK economy is performing pretty well. And, of course, unemployment in the UK is half what it is in the Eurozone.
If the UK is getting 10-15% export growth this is nothing short of phenomenal.
But obviously there is no way we can compete after Brexit etc etc.0 -
Looks like everyone - Leavers and Remainers - voted against their best economic interests!HYUFD said:
Perhaps but remember C2s and DEs voted heavily Leave, ABs voted strongly Remain and C1s were almost tiedSouthamObserver said:
The UK citizens switch jobs or to make it worth coming here.HYUFD said:
Over the last decade low paid UK workers have seen their incomes fall because of immigration but high paid UK workers have seen their incomes rise because of immigration so setting 2 year visas for low skilled immigration should reduce downwards pressure on wages at the lower end while the longer 4 to 5 year visas for high skilled immigration should ensure we still get enough high skilled workersSouthamObserver said:
Yep - we UK workers.HYUFD said:
The 2 year visa for low skilled EU workers and the longer 4 to 5 year visa for EU worSouthamObserver said:
Yep - -skilled EU citizens.Jonathan said:
They used to call it the brain drain.SouthamObserver said:
When will this happen? The only way immigration is going to fall in any significant way is if the economy tanks.Mortimer said:
Would those be the corn laws that helped business by causing starvation for the common man?MikeSmithson said:
With their loony and economically suicidal policy of Brexit the Tories have given up their right to lecture anybody on being the party of business. This is just like the corn laws in the 19th century.SquareRoot said:
Yesas leader..AlastairMeeks said:Labour have a scarcely believable opportunity to gather the business vote. For as long as the Conservatives pursue Brexit, the great majority of businessmen and women who supported Remain and who are watching the floundering negotiations with appalled disbelief are going to be looking at their options.
Brexit will be a success because it will make the life of the poorest better again; whether it is in the reduction of competition for scarce public resources or the increase in pay for those low paid private sector workerswho need it most.
0 -
The Eurozone is forecast to grow faster than was previously thought. It is our biggest market. The pound is low against the Euro. Our exports should be motoring ahead. As I recall, the most recent figures did indeed show exports to Europe rising, but falling in the RoW.archer101au said:
Going to have to pull you up with some facts there. EU growth for 2017 is forecast barely above 2% - hardly 'significant growth' - historically this is a pretty poor performance and the indicators are that it has peaked.SouthamObserver said:
Something is very badly wrong if we cannot continue to up our exports to our biggest foreign market at a time when it is experiencing significant growth and the pound is so low.rottenborough said:Bootle:
"The pessimists are in for a shock."
"It looks as though by the end of the year we may be experiencing growth in exports of between 10pc and 15pc per annum..."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/09/10/ignore-naysayers-competitive-pound-positive-economy/
Before you point out how this is higher than the UK, UK economic growth has been 5% greater than the eurozone since 2008 (bloody Tories!). Not sure how was possible if we are totally reliant on EU growth.
Given the endless stream of negative propaganda about Brexit, the UK economy is performing pretty well. And, of course, unemployment in the UK is half what it is in the Eurozone.
If the UK is getting 10-15% export growth this is nothing short of phenomenal.
But obviously there is no way we can compete after Brexit etc etc.
Of course we can compete after Brexit. Just as we can compete now. But Brexit will not make us more competitive.
0 -
Let's not forget the immediate toys out of prammery from core LDs when the coalition was formed in 2010. Someone here said that a friend told him that the LDs coalishing with the tories made her feel as if she had been raped.Mortimer said:
Indeed. The metropolitan style of the 2015 and 2017 elections was what did for the LDs there. They had forgotten their provincial roots.Allan said:
The LD MPs in the South West would typically campaign as eurosceptics (or keep quiet about the EU) and then we had Clegg debating for the EU followed by the promulgation of a pro-EU line by the LDs which has probably finished off the LDs in the area.rottenborough said:
There's a book to be written on the strange death of LibDems in South West. This area had been one of their absolute heartlands throughout my life.Jonathan said:
It's striking how much that coalition deal stuffed the Lib Dems and changed the face of our politics.Sean_F said:Throughout the West Country, support for the Lib Dems has collapsed. Some of that support has gone to the Conservatives, more of it to Labour, so they have a lot of strong second places now, in seats where previously, their support had been reduced to a rump.
The party is entirely out of step nationally with the activist base.0 -
Caroline Flint has decided to upset both Corbynistas and anti-Corbynistas on the Left with her decision today. I even saw some on Twitter calling for her deselection.
foxinsoxuk UK makes a good point about Momentum. They are very fired up and will likely be consistently campaigning throughout the country until whenever the next GE will be. In that sense, the expansion of the Labour membership is highly useful to Corbyn. Meanwhile it doesn't seem that the Conservatives are doing very much to increase their membership, or indeed broaden it.0 -
Somehow struggle to see the fire lasting 4.5 years....The_Apocalypse said:Caroline Flint has decided to upset both Corbynistas and anti-Corbynistas on the Left with her decision today. I even saw some on Twitter calling for her deselection.
foxinsoxuk UK makes a good point about Momentum. They are very fired up and will likely be consistently campaigning throughout the country until whenever the next GE will be. In that sense, the expansion of the Labour membership is highly useful to Corbyn. Meanwhile it doesn't seem that the Conservatives are doing very much to increase their membership, or indeed broaden it.
0 -
Caroline Flint news is very interesting - suggests that 15-25 Northern MPs with slender majorities will either sit on their hands or vote with the Govt tonight.
Good on them. Country before party.0 -
The Labour left has waited 70 years for a sniff at socialism via parliamentary means. It's delusional to think they are going to lose interest when the prize is almost within their grasp.Mortimer said:
Somehow struggle to see the fire lasting 4.5 years....The_Apocalypse said:Caroline Flint has decided to upset both Corbynistas and anti-Corbynistas on the Left with her decision today. I even saw some on Twitter calling for her deselection.
foxinsoxuk UK makes a good point about Momentum. They are very fired up and will likely be consistently campaigning throughout the country until whenever the next GE will be. In that sense, the expansion of the Labour membership is highly useful to Corbyn. Meanwhile it doesn't seem that the Conservatives are doing very much to increase their membership, or indeed broaden it.
Especially if they manage to chip away at Iron Pubes' "majority" with a few by-elections.0 -
Plenty of evidence upthread that for opposition politicians voting with the Tories doesn’t turn out well.Mortimer said:Caroline Flint news is very interesting - suggests that 15-25 Northern MPs with slender majorities will either sit on their hands or vote with the Govt tonight.
Good on them. Country before party.0 -
Yep and what is the main component of UK GDP growth?archer101au said:
Going to have to pull you up with some facts there. EU growth for 2017 is forecast barely above 2% - hardly 'significant growth' - historically this is a pretty poor performance and the indicators are that it has peaked.SouthamObserver said:
Something is very badly wrong if we cannot continue to up our exports to our biggest foreign market at a time when it is experiencing significant growth and the pound is so low.rottenborough said:Bootle:
"The pessimists are in for a shock."
"It looks as though by the end of the year we may be experiencing growth in exports of between 10pc and 15pc per annum..."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/09/10/ignore-naysayers-competitive-pound-positive-economy/
Before you point out how this is higher than the UK, UK economic growth has been 5% greater than the eurozone since 2008 (bloody Tories!). Not sure how was possible if we are totally reliant on EU growth.
Given the endless stream of negative propaganda about Brexit, the UK economy is performing pretty well. And, of course, unemployment in the UK is half what it is in the Eurozone.
If the UK is getting 10-15% export growth this is nothing short of phenomenal.
But obviously there is no way we can compete after Brexit etc etc.0 -
The Tories may seek simply to time Corbyn out. At the the next GE, assuming the parliament runs to term, he will be 74 (Vince will be 79). No one has ever become PM for the first time at that age.Mortimer said:
Somehow struggle to see the fire lasting 4.5 years....The_Apocalypse said:Caroline Flint has decided to upset both Corbynistas and anti-Corbynistas on the Left with her decision today. I even saw some on Twitter calling for her deselection.
foxinsoxuk UK makes a good point about Momentum. They are very fired up and will likely be consistently campaigning throughout the country until whenever the next GE will be. In that sense, the expansion of the Labour membership is highly useful to Corbyn. Meanwhile it doesn't seem that the Conservatives are doing very much to increase their membership, or indeed broaden it.0 -
The second reading vote was never really in doubt, so it's a good place in which to make a very public point if you have a slender majority in a Leave area. It's the committee stage and the third reading that actually matter.Mortimer said:Caroline Flint news is very interesting - suggests that 15-25 Northern MPs with slender majorities will either sit on their hands or vote with the Govt tonight.
Good on them. Country before party.
0 -
"We count 12 LibDem MPs, Lord Vader, but their majorities are so small, they're evading our Turbolasers!"Mortimer said:
Indeed. The metropolitan style of the 2015 and 2017 elections was what did for the LDs there. They had forgotten their provincial roots.Allan said:
The LD MPs in the South West would typically campaign as eurosceptics (or keep quiet about the EU) and then we had Clegg debating for the EU followed by the promulgation of a pro-EU line by the LDs which has probably finished off the LDs in the area.rottenborough said:
There's a book to be written on the strange death of LibDems in South West. This area had been one of their absolute heartlands throughout my life.Jonathan said:
It's striking how much that coalition deal stuffed the Lib Dems and changed the face of our politics.Sean_F said:Throughout the West Country, support for the Lib Dems has collapsed. Some of that support has gone to the Conservatives, more of it to Labour, so they have a lot of strong second places now, in seats where previously, their support had been reduced to a rump.
The party is entirely out of step nationally with the activist base.0 -
Tbf, a crude but not inaccurate metaphor for what a lot of LDs must have felt after the 2015 GE.Ishmael_Z said:
Let's not forget the immediate toys out of prammery from core LDs when the coalition was formed in 2010. Someone here said that a friend told him that the LDs coalishing with the tories made her feel as if she had been raped.Mortimer said:
Indeed. The metropolitan style of the 2015 and 2017 elections was what did for the LDs there. They had forgotten their provincial roots.Allan said:
The LD MPs in the South West would typically campaign as eurosceptics (or keep quiet about the EU) and then we had Clegg debating for the EU followed by the promulgation of a pro-EU line by the LDs which has probably finished off the LDs in the area.rottenborough said:
There's a book to be written on the strange death of LibDems in South West. This area had been one of their absolute heartlands throughout my life.Jonathan said:
It's striking how much that coalition deal stuffed the Lib Dems and changed the face of our politics.Sean_F said:Throughout the West Country, support for the Lib Dems has collapsed. Some of that support has gone to the Conservatives, more of it to Labour, so they have a lot of strong second places now, in seats where previously, their support had been reduced to a rump.
The party is entirely out of step nationally with the activist base.
'Shouldn't have got carried away in the rose garden, and got drunk on that heady brew of "for the good of the country" and the whiff of ministerial car leather, should you luv.'0 -
I still think the Lab vote in the SW is very weak. Look at the mayoralty vote in west country - that should have been a labour win and they managed to lose it. Labour did not do well in Plymouth (traditionally a Labour stronghold for quite a long time) and in spite of some success in Cornwall seats, a pretty low base in Cornwall council and other counties around. In essence, if Labour think they will get more than 5-6 seats in the next election from Cornwall, Devon and Somerset that is a pipe dream (and that includes the student vote in Exeter). Best off focussing on the real battle in Midlands, Cheshire, East of England etc......the distances, geography and hassle of trying to win a handful of seats in SW England mean I just cant see it being a battleground for Labour.0
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The win wasn't in doubt, the size of the Govt majority was.SouthamObserver said:
The second reading vote was never really in doubt, so it's a good place in which to make a very public point if you have a slender majority in a Leave area. It's the committee stage and the third reading that actually matter.Mortimer said:Caroline Flint news is very interesting - suggests that 15-25 Northern MPs with slender majorities will either sit on their hands or vote with the Govt tonight.
Good on them. Country before party.
I suspect it'll be 30-40 now...0 -
Britain Elects @britainelects 41m41 minutes ago
More
Welsh Westminster VI:
LAB: 50% (+1)
CON: 32% (-2)
PC: 8% (-2)
LDEM: 4% (-1)
UKIP: 3% (+1)
via @YouGov, 05 - 07 Sep
Rounded chgs. w/ GE0 -
Gladstone did.PeterC said:
The Tories may seek simply to time Corbyn out. At the the next GE, assuming the parliament runs to term, he will be 74 (Vince will be 79). No one has ever become PM for the first time at that age.Mortimer said:
Somehow struggle to see the fire lasting 4.5 years....The_Apocalypse said:Caroline Flint has decided to upset both Corbynistas and anti-Corbynistas on the Left with her decision today. I even saw some on Twitter calling for her deselection.
foxinsoxuk UK makes a good point about Momentum. They are very fired up and will likely be consistently campaigning throughout the country until whenever the next GE will be. In that sense, the expansion of the Labour membership is highly useful to Corbyn. Meanwhile it doesn't seem that the Conservatives are doing very much to increase their membership, or indeed broaden it.0 -
I don't. I don't think some Tories understand quite how enthusiastic many of these people are for Corbyn and quite how much they hate the Conservative Party.Mortimer said:
Somehow struggle to see the fire lasting 4.5 years....The_Apocalypse said:Caroline Flint has decided to upset both Corbynistas and anti-Corbynistas on the Left with her decision today. I even saw some on Twitter calling for her deselection.
foxinsoxuk UK makes a good point about Momentum. They are very fired up and will likely be consistently campaigning throughout the country until whenever the next GE will be. In that sense, the expansion of the Labour membership is highly useful to Corbyn. Meanwhile it doesn't seem that the Conservatives are doing very much to increase their membership, or indeed broaden it.
0 -
Caroline may be upsetting people but at least she is usig her brain. Labour's stance is opposition for it's own sake. This is not - or should not be - a proxy for the principle of Brexit. What are these muppets voting for? If the withdrawal bill were blocked - unlikely, I know - it would mean we would crash out of Europe without a functioning legal system.The_Apocalypse said:Caroline Flint has decided to upset both Corbynistas and anti-Corbynistas on the Left with her decision today. I even saw some on Twitter calling for her deselection.
foxinsoxuk UK makes a good point about Momentum. They are very fired up and will likely be consistently campaigning throughout the country until whenever the next GE will be. In that sense, the expansion of the Labour membership is highly useful to Corbyn. Meanwhile it doesn't seem that the Conservatives are doing very much to increase their membership, or indeed broaden it.0 -
That may or may not be the case, but I have little doubt that the Lib Dem's travails led to a much better government than if the Conservatives had been in government on their own.Theuniondivvie said:
Tbf, a crude but not inaccurate metaphor for what a lot of LDs must have felt after the 2015 GE.Ishmael_Z said:
Let's not forget the immediate toys out of prammery from core LDs when the coalition was formed in 2010. Someone here said that a friend told him that the LDs coalishing with the tories made her feel as if she had been raped.Mortimer said:
Indeed. The metropolitan style of the 2015 and 2017 elections was what did for the LDs there. They had forgotten their provincial roots.Allan said:
The LD MPs in the South West would typically campaign as eurosceptics (or keep quiet about the EU) and then we had Clegg debating for the EU followed by the promulgation of a pro-EU line by the LDs which has probably finished off the LDs in the area.rottenborough said:
There's a book to be written on the strange death of LibDems in South West. This area had been one of their absolute heartlands throughout my life.Jonathan said:
It's striking how much that coalition deal stuffed the Lib Dems and changed the face of our politics.Sean_F said:Throughout the West Country, support for the Lib Dems has collapsed. Some of that support has gone to the Conservatives, more of it to Labour, so they have a lot of strong second places now, in seats where previously, their support had been reduced to a rump.
The party is entirely out of step nationally with the activist base.
'Shouldn't have got carried away in the rose garden, and got drunk on that heady brew of "for the good of the country" and the whiff of ministerial car leather, should you luv.'
In fact, I think the coalition government between 2010 and 2015 will be seen as an oasis of good government amidst some rather poor administrations. It was far from perfect, but the Lib Dems did a good job IMO - as did Cameron and his team.
0 -
I remember when quite a few Tories on here believed that Wales was trending Tory.bigjohnowls said:Britain Elects @britainelects 41m41 minutes ago
More
Welsh Westminster VI:
LAB: 50% (+1)
CON: 32% (-2)
PC: 8% (-2)
LDEM: 4% (-1)
UKIP: 3% (+1)
via @YouGov, 05 - 07 Sep
Rounded chgs. w/ GE0 -
Gladstone was born on 29th December 1809. He first became PM on 3rd December 1868.OldKingCole said:
Gladstone did.PeterC said:
The Tories may seek simply to time Corbyn out. At the the next GE, assuming the parliament runs to term, he will be 74 (Vince will be 79). No one has ever become PM for the first time at that age.Mortimer said:
Somehow struggle to see the fire lasting 4.5 years....The_Apocalypse said:Caroline Flint has decided to upset both Corbynistas and anti-Corbynistas on the Left with her decision today. I even saw some on Twitter calling for her deselection.
foxinsoxuk UK makes a good point about Momentum. They are very fired up and will likely be consistently campaigning throughout the country until whenever the next GE will be. In that sense, the expansion of the Labour membership is highly useful to Corbyn. Meanwhile it doesn't seem that the Conservatives are doing very much to increase their membership, or indeed broaden it.0 -
We clearly need legislation. We do not need the legislation that has been put in front of the Commons. MPs who vote against the bill at second reading are making that point.PeterC said:
Caroline may be upsetting people but at least she is usig her brain. Labour's stance is opposition for it's own sake. This is not - or should not be - a proxy for the principle of Brexit. What are these muppets voting for? If the withdrawal bill were blocked - unlikely, I know - it would mean we would crash out of Europe without a functioning legal system.The_Apocalypse said:Caroline Flint has decided to upset both Corbynistas and anti-Corbynistas on the Left with her decision today. I even saw some on Twitter calling for her deselection.
foxinsoxuk UK makes a good point about Momentum. They are very fired up and will likely be consistently campaigning throughout the country until whenever the next GE will be. In that sense, the expansion of the Labour membership is highly useful to Corbyn. Meanwhile it doesn't seem that the Conservatives are doing very much to increase their membership, or indeed broaden it.
0 -
Well, one where you actually have to pay them back would be worse, off the top of my head.eek said:
How could any tuition fee policy be worse than the one we currently have? If the fees don't kill you the interest rates they charge (RPI+3%) will...OldKingCole said:
As a long-term Lib and then LD I look at the Coalition’s record in such areas as the (almost) abolition of legal aid, the attacks on Welfare benefits, tuition fees (although that’s not as bad as it could have been) and their failure to stop Lansley’s splitting of Health Promotion and other aspects of Public Health away from the Health Service and wonder what I was doing all those years. The policies of the coalition were not what I had, over the years, canvassed and leaflets for.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Borough, is that not due to the Lib Dems suffering through both always wanting coalition, yet spending most of their time talking about what they stopped the Conservatives doing rather than claiming credit, and that a lot of voters [unfairly] treated them as Labour-Light and were outraged when the party they voted for had the temerity to, er, enter government?
I admit that I don’t think, given the overal economic situation in 2010 that Clegg and the Parliamentary Party had much choice in the short-term, but I frequently posted here from about 2012 onwards that it was time to leave the coalition.
Or you're liable to pay something when you can't afford it.
Or one where the interest rate change means something to graduates other than the very richest ones.0 -
And for the fourth (and last time) in 1892. But I see what you mean!PeterC said:
Gladstone was born on 29th December 1809. He first became PM on 3rd December 1868.OldKingCole said:
Gladstone did.PeterC said:
The Tories may seek simply to time Corbyn out. At the the next GE, assuming the parliament runs to term, he will be 74 (Vince will be 79). No one has ever become PM for the first time at that age.Mortimer said:
Somehow struggle to see the fire lasting 4.5 years....The_Apocalypse said:Caroline Flint has decided to upset both Corbynistas and anti-Corbynistas on the Left with her decision today. I even saw some on Twitter calling for her deselection.
foxinsoxuk UK makes a good point about Momentum. They are very fired up and will likely be consistently campaigning throughout the country until whenever the next GE will be. In that sense, the expansion of the Labour membership is highly useful to Corbyn. Meanwhile it doesn't seem that the Conservatives are doing very much to increase their membership, or indeed broaden it.
0 -
"Does anyone believe Labour are on ............!!"The_Apocalypse said:
I remember when quite a few Tories on here believed that Wales was trending Tory.bigjohnowls said:Britain Elects @britainelects 41m41 minutes ago
More
Welsh Westminster VI:
LAB: 50% (+1)
CON: 32% (-2)
PC: 8% (-2)
LDEM: 4% (-1)
UKIP: 3% (+1)
via @YouGov, 05 - 07 Sep
Rounded chgs. w/ GE0 -
The legislation can be ammended as the bill progresses. Prominent Tories dislike the detail but they are not going to vote against the principle of the bill at second reading. Corbyn is grandstanding to the anti-Brexit lobby - smart politics, maybe, but his stance has little merit beyond that.SouthamObserver said:
We clearly need legislation. We do not need the legislation that has been put in front of the Commons. MPs who vote against the bill at second reading are making that point.PeterC said:
Caroline may be upsetting people but at least she is usig her brain. Labour's stance is opposition for it's own sake. This is not - or should not be - a proxy for the principle of Brexit. What are these muppets voting for? If the withdrawal bill were blocked - unlikely, I know - it would mean we would crash out of Europe without a functioning legal system.The_Apocalypse said:Caroline Flint has decided to upset both Corbynistas and anti-Corbynistas on the Left with her decision today. I even saw some on Twitter calling for her deselection.
foxinsoxuk UK makes a good point about Momentum. They are very fired up and will likely be consistently campaigning throughout the country until whenever the next GE will be. In that sense, the expansion of the Labour membership is highly useful to Corbyn. Meanwhile it doesn't seem that the Conservatives are doing very much to increase their membership, or indeed broaden it.0 -
Opposition opposes shock!PeterC said:
The legislation can be ammended as the bill progresses. Prominent Tories dislike the detail but they are not going to vote against the principle of the bill at second reading. Corbyn is grandstading to the anti-Brexit lobby - smart politics, maybe, but his stance makes little merit beyond that.SouthamObserver said:
We clearly need legislation. We do not need the legislation that has been put in front of the Commons. MPs who vote against the bill at second reading are making that point.PeterC said:
Caroline may be upsetting people but at least she is usig her brain. Labour's stance is opposition for it's own sake. This is not - or should not be - a proxy for the principle of Brexit. What are these muppets voting for? If the withdrawal bill were blocked - unlikely, I know - it would mean we would crash out of Europe without a functioning legal system.The_Apocalypse said:Caroline Flint has decided to upset both Corbynistas and anti-Corbynistas on the Left with her decision today. I even saw some on Twitter calling for her deselection.
foxinsoxuk UK makes a good point about Momentum. They are very fired up and will likely be consistently campaigning throughout the country until whenever the next GE will be. In that sense, the expansion of the Labour membership is highly useful to Corbyn. Meanwhile it doesn't seem that the Conservatives are doing very much to increase their membership, or indeed broaden it.
0 -
I first asked this at some unearthly hour, so perhaps few saw it. Does someone here know the date of the most recent Tory-led cabinet that was empty of Old Etonians?
A friend asked me this a few days ago and whenever it was I think it was no later than 1806. Was it one of the Pitt the Younger administrations?0 -
Yep - the Tories seem determined to persuade people like me living in marginal constituencies that the absolute priority at the next general election has to be to use our votes to prevent a Tory government.The_Apocalypse said:
I don't. I don't think some Tories understand quite how enthusiastic many of these people are for Corbyn and quite how much they hate the Conservative Party.Mortimer said:
Somehow struggle to see the fire lasting 4.5 years....The_Apocalypse said:Caroline Flint has decided to upset both Corbynistas and anti-Corbynistas on the Left with her decision today. I even saw some on Twitter calling for her deselection.
foxinsoxuk UK makes a good point about Momentum. They are very fired up and will likely be consistently campaigning throughout the country until whenever the next GE will be. In that sense, the expansion of the Labour membership is highly useful to Corbyn. Meanwhile it doesn't seem that the Conservatives are doing very much to increase their membership, or indeed broaden it.
0 -
He certainly kept buggering on, didn't he? Good man.OldKingCole said:
And for the fourth (and last time) in 1892. But I see what you mean!PeterC said:
Gladstone was born on 29th December 1809. He first became PM on 3rd December 1868.OldKingCole said:
Gladstone did.PeterC said:
The Tories may seek simply to time Corbyn out. At the the next GE, assuming the parliament runs to term, he will be 74 (Vince will be 79). No one has ever become PM for the first time at that age.Mortimer said:
Somehow struggle to see the fire lasting 4.5 years....The_Apocalypse said:Caroline Flint has decided to upset both Corbynistas and anti-Corbynistas on the Left with her decision today. I even saw some on Twitter calling for her deselection.
foxinsoxuk UK makes a good point about Momentum. They are very fired up and will likely be consistently campaigning throughout the country until whenever the next GE will be. In that sense, the expansion of the Labour membership is highly useful to Corbyn. Meanwhile it doesn't seem that the Conservatives are doing very much to increase their membership, or indeed broaden it.
I do think there is a big difference between doing a job for the first time and returning to it after a break. There is a even bigger difference between the scope of the job in the 19th century and the twenty-first!0 -
Exactly - Corbyn is justified in opposing every single bill that the Govt proposes on anything because, well, that is his job. He leads a party whose raison d'etre is to replace the existing government. Why? Because in every sphere Labour believes it is better for the country to have Labour policies than Conservative ones. Hence the charge that it is putting party before country is ludicrous because to embrace such a narrative would be for Lab to admit that the Cons have the right idea on governing.SouthamObserver said:
Opposition opposes shock!PeterC said:
The legislation can be ammended as the bill progresses. Prominent Tories dislike the detail but they are not going to vote against the principle of the bill at second reading. Corbyn is grandstading to the anti-Brexit lobby - smart politics, maybe, but his stance makes little merit beyond that.SouthamObserver said:
We clearly need legislation. We do not need the legislation that has been put in front of the Commons. MPs who vote against the bill at second reading are making that point.PeterC said:
Caroline may be upsetting people but at least she is usig her brain. Labour's stance is opposition for it's own sake. This is not - or should not be - a proxy for the principle of Brexit. What are these muppets voting for? If the withdrawal bill were blocked - unlikely, I know - it would mean we would crash out of Europe without a functioning legal system.The_Apocalypse said:Caroline Flint has decided to upset both Corbynistas and anti-Corbynistas on the Left with her decision today. I even saw some on Twitter calling for her deselection.
foxinsoxuk UK makes a good point about Momentum. They are very fired up and will likely be consistently campaigning throughout the country until whenever the next GE will be. In that sense, the expansion of the Labour membership is highly useful to Corbyn. Meanwhile it doesn't seem that the Conservatives are doing very much to increase their membership, or indeed broaden it.0
