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I find this attitude bizarre. You expect railworkers to be sympathetic to your discomfort twice a year, when you're not sympathetic to their concerns about the thing they spend 40 hours a week doing. If railworkers never went on strike they'd still be getting paid 1911 rates.ThreeQuidder said:
Yes, the fucking RMT and ASLEF making my life miserable at least twice a year for the past twenty years even though I have no way of affecting their disputes (translation: "we want more money") and I can't even take my business elsewhere.Winstanley said:
Do you have any experience of strikes?ThreeQuidder said:Winstanley said:
YesThreeQuidder said:
You're blaming the council for the union choosing to strike?Winstanley said:
It's a shame the old Chartist demand for the ability to immediately recall representatives wasn't taken up. Seems to me like we have a situation where 1) the union is doing a pretty good job of representing the will of its members, the whole point of its existence; 2) the council is doing a crap job of representing the will of its electorate, the whole point of its existence.ThreeQuidder said:
Pointless. Ineffective.Winstanley said:What else do you call it when you do petitions and fire off emails at your representatives?
Maybe if there were better mechanisms of accountability the council would be 'getting round the table' etc. rather than trying to bully its workforce and allowing these strikes to continue...
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People vote for strikes if:Winstanley said:
Do you have any experience of strikes? Nobody will vote for a strike for no reason. In this instance, the council has presented refuse workers with a 'list of demands' to make the service cheaper, including some that the workers find unacceptable.ThreeQuidder said:Winstanley said:
YesThreeQuidder said:
You're blaming the council for the union choosing to strike?Winstanley said:
It's a shame the old Chartist demand for the ability to immediately recall representatives wasn't taken up. Seems to me like we have a situation where 1) the union is doing a pretty good job of representing the will of its members, the whole point of its existence; 2) the council is doing a crap job of representing the will of its electorate, the whole point of its existence.ThreeQuidder said:
Pointless. Ineffective.Winstanley said:What else do you call it when you do petitions and fire off emails at your representatives?
Maybe if there were better mechanisms of accountability the council would be 'getting round the table' etc. rather than trying to bully its workforce and allowing these strikes to continue...
Unite is arguing that the council is trying to pass the consequences of its own mismanagement of the service onto its lowest paid employees, who it represents, and have refused to engage in meaningful talks about changes to the service. The refuse workers haven't gone on strike to gain anything, but only to 'not lose as much'.
(a) they have a public sector employee who is backed by the taxpayer;
(b) they have a monopoly service to which there is no viable alternative (such as railway workers) ultimately funded by the taxpayer or
(c) they are feeling absolutely suicidal and are willing to risk their employment (BA Cabin staff come to mind).
Local Authority budgets have been severely cut. Whilst it is pretty indisputable that they would be better starting with the senior management and the "redundancy packages" offered to senior staff approaching retirement than the poorly paid workers actually providing the service the fact is that they have to operate within a budget and leaving tonnes of rubbish on the streets of Birmingham is not going to change that.0 -
£50k+ per year for a 36 hour week with 43 days' holiday? You're damn right I have no sympathy.Winstanley said:
I find this attitude bizarre. You expect railworkers to be sympathetic to your discomfort twice a year, when you're not sympathetic to their concerns about the thing they spend 40 hours a week doing.ThreeQuidder said:
Yes, the fucking RMT and ASLEF making my life miserable at least twice a year for the past twenty years even though I have no way of affecting their disputes (translation: "we want more money") and I can't even take my business elsewhere.Winstanley said:
Do you have any experience of strikes?ThreeQuidder said:Winstanley said:
YesThreeQuidder said:
You're blaming the council for the union choosing to strike?Winstanley said:
It's a shame the old Chartist demand for the ability to immediately recall representatives wasn't taken up. Seems to me like we have a situation where 1) the union is doing a pretty good job of representing the will of its members, the whole point of its existence; 2) the council is doing a crap job of representing the will of its electorate, the whole point of its existence.ThreeQuidder said:
Pointless. Ineffective.Winstanley said:What else do you call it when you do petitions and fire off emails at your representatives?
Maybe if there were better mechanisms of accountability the council would be 'getting round the table' etc. rather than trying to bully its workforce and allowing these strikes to continue...0 -
No they can't. They repeatedly complain about that to the government. See https://www.isc.co.uk/about-isc/school-charities-and-tax/ (the section headed Independent Schools and Tax) for details.DavidL said:
As charities I think they can recoup that.ThreeQuidder said:
All businesses pay VAT on their taxable purchases...prh47bridge said:
Just to add, independent schools already pay VAT on supplies.prh47bridge said:
He can because it is not illegal under EU rules. The education exemption only applies to "bodies governed by public law having such as their aim or by other organisations recognised by the Member State concerned as having similar objects". Private schools are not governed by public law as they do not get most of their funding from the state. So all the government has to do is decide not to recognise private schools as having similar objects and they can charge VAT.boulay said:FPT rottenborough mentioned that Chapman wanted to charge VAT on private school fees. This is illegal under EU rules as it bans the charging of VAT on education provision. Can't have it both ways....
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https://www.buzzfeed.com/jamesball/remain-and-leave-voters-are-surprisingly-united-on-backing?utm_term=.hhO3Lg6KO#.cu4ZzQLwD
Holy Moly
~42% of leavers want all EU citizens to leave the country?
Perhaps even more astonishing is the ~29% of remainers who also want all EU citizens to leave.
RIP liberal Britain.0 -
In general I agree but if only 7% of Leavers (IIRC June Yougov poll) think Britain will be worse off economically (and incidentally a similar number of Remainers who DON'T think it will be worse off), that necessarily affects how you approach the negotiations. Why compromise if you don't think it will make a difference? I made the comment about Leavers but the same applies in reverse to Remainers.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. 43, bracketing all Leave voters together makes things easier but also less true to life.
Except for leaving the customs union, I've said repeatedly I'm open to arguments on the best way to leave the EU. Not claiming to be representative of anyone other than myself, but the idea all Leave voters have the same view is as silly as claiming all Remain voters love the EU or want to adopt the euro.0 -
You must know that's tosh.Winstanley said:
I find this attitude bizarre. You expect railworkers to be sympathetic to your discomfort twice a year, when you're not sympathetic to their concerns about the thing they spend 40 hours a week doing. If railworkers never went on strike they'd still be getting paid 1911 rates.ThreeQuidder said:
Yes, the fucking RMT and ASLEF making my life miserable at least twice a year for the past twenty years even though I have no way of affecting their disputes (translation: "we want more money") and I can't even take my business elsewhere.Winstanley said:
Do you have any experience of strikes?ThreeQuidder said:Winstanley said:
YesThreeQuidder said:
You're blaming the council for the union choosing to strike?Winstanley said:
It's a shame the old Chartist demand for the ability to immediately recall representatives wasn't taken up. Seems to me like we have a situation where 1) the union is doing a pretty good job of representing the will of its members, the whole point of its existence; 2) the council is doing a crap job of representing the will of its electorate, the whole point of its existence.ThreeQuidder said:
Pointless. Ineffective.Winstanley said:What else do you call it when you do petitions and fire off emails at your representatives?
Maybe if there were better mechanisms of accountability the council would be 'getting round the table' etc. rather than trying to bully its workforce and allowing these strikes to continue...0 -
Didn't know that. Much obliged. Makes the argument that they should be denied chartable status even more bizarre when the benefits are so modest anyway. Surprised more schools have not just said fine and no, you will not have access to our facilities at all nor will we be sending any staff that we pay to other schools to help out.prh47bridge said:
No they can't. They repeatedly complain about that to the government. See https://www.isc.co.uk/about-isc/school-charities-and-tax/ (the section headed Independent Schools and Tax) for details.DavidL said:
As charities I think they can recoup that.ThreeQuidder said:
All businesses pay VAT on their taxable purchases...prh47bridge said:
Just to add, independent schools already pay VAT on supplies.prh47bridge said:
He can because it is not illegal under EU rules. The education exemption only applies to "bodies governed by public law having such as their aim or by other organisations recognised by the Member State concerned as having similar objects". Private schools are not governed by public law as they do not get most of their funding from the state. So all the government has to do is decide not to recognise private schools as having similar objects and they can charge VAT.boulay said:FPT rottenborough mentioned that Chapman wanted to charge VAT on private school fees. This is illegal under EU rules as it bans the charging of VAT on education provision. Can't have it both ways....
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'Unite has said that the overspend for the 2016/17 financial year, previously thought to be £9.7 million, had been confirmed by a top council boss as rising to £11.9 million contradicting the authority’s previous press statements that these cuts were due to budget cuts and austerity measures'.DavidL said:
People vote for strikes if:
(a) they have a public sector employee who is backed by the taxpayer;
(b) they have a monopoly service to which there is no viable alternative (such as railway workers) ultimately funded by the taxpayer or
(c) they are feeling absolutely suicidal and are willing to risk their employment (BA Cabin staff come to mind).
Local Authority budgets have been severely cut. Whilst it is pretty indisputable that they would be better starting with the senior management and the "redundancy packages" offered to senior staff approaching retirement than the poorly paid workers actually providing the service the fact is that they have to operate within a budget and leaving tonnes of rubbish on the streets of Birmingham is not going to change that.
Unite aren't disputing the need to work within a budget. They're disputing what they see as the mismanagement of that budget. They're disputing the ability of the council to pass on its failures to its lowest paid workers, rather than actually correcting its failures in dialogue with the people who run and know the service.0 -
Mr. 43, a fair point, though some polling, such as the 29% of Remain voters Mr. Pong cited who apparently want all EU citizens to leave, is not necessarily persuasive.
Maybe the real lesson of recent political events is that the British electorate loves lying to pollsters.0 -
Indeed. Chappers has certainly livened up what was a rather boring August. Whether anything will come of it I have no idea.AndyJS said:This Twitter feed is making for interesting reading at the moment:
https://twitter.com/jameschappers
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What's tosh? Any history of the good old NUR will tell you of the importance of strikes in maintaining living standards and in forcing development of the service.ReggieCide said:
You must know that's tosh.Winstanley said:
I find this attitude bizarre. You expect railworkers to be sympathetic to your discomfort twice a year, when you're not sympathetic to their concerns about the thing they spend 40 hours a week doing. If railworkers never went on strike they'd still be getting paid 1911 rates.ThreeQuidder said:
Yes, the fucking RMT and ASLEF making my life miserable at least twice a year for the past twenty years even though I have no way of affecting their disputes (translation: "we want more money") and I can't even take my business elsewhere.Winstanley said:
Do you have any experience of strikes?ThreeQuidder said:Winstanley said:
YesThreeQuidder said:
You're blaming the council for the union choosing to strike?Winstanley said:
It's a shame the old Chartist demand for the ability to immediately recall representatives wasn't taken up. Seems to me like we have a situation where 1) the union is doing a pretty good job of representing the will of its members, the whole point of its existence; 2) the council is doing a crap job of representing the will of its electorate, the whole point of its existence.ThreeQuidder said:
Pointless. Ineffective.Winstanley said:What else do you call it when you do petitions and fire off emails at your representatives?
Maybe if there were better mechanisms of accountability the council would be 'getting round the table' etc. rather than trying to bully its workforce and allowing these strikes to continue...0 -
Hardly - the day we leave rejoining goes straight on the agenda.Richard_Nabavi said:The list of people thrashing around with completely impractical ways of trying to pretend that we are not leaving the EU gets longer by the day.
What's more, we'll have left by the next GE (almost certainly). A 'pro-EU' party will be as irrelevant as an 'anti-Indian-independence' party would have been in 1950.0 -
But will start from a much lower base than 48%.Recidivist said:
Hardly - the day we leave rejoining goes straight on the agenda.Richard_Nabavi said:The list of people thrashing around with completely impractical ways of trying to pretend that we are not leaving the EU gets longer by the day.
What's more, we'll have left by the next GE (almost certainly). A 'pro-EU' party will be as irrelevant as an 'anti-Indian-independence' party would have been in 1950.0 -
Not on the agenda of the electorate, though, nor any major political party.Recidivist said:
Hardly - the day we leave rejoining goes straight on the agenda.Richard_Nabavi said:The list of people thrashing around with completely impractical ways of trying to pretend that we are not leaving the EU gets longer by the day.
What's more, we'll have left by the next GE (almost certainly). A 'pro-EU' party will be as irrelevant as an 'anti-Indian-independence' party would have been in 1950.
Edit: And, most importantly, certainly not on the agenda of the EU.0 -
Hardly. The moment we leave the agenda becomes moving on. Refighting these battles will be the last thing on all but the most extremists minds.Recidivist said:
Hardly - the day we leave rejoining goes straight on the agenda.Richard_Nabavi said:The list of people thrashing around with completely impractical ways of trying to pretend that we are not leaving the EU gets longer by the day.
What's more, we'll have left by the next GE (almost certainly). A 'pro-EU' party will be as irrelevant as an 'anti-Indian-independence' party would have been in 1950.0 -
A second referendum in advance of the next GE is more likely than some sort of coupon election as suggested in the lead.0
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Incidentally, a pal is a Bursar who used to work in independent schools. He is an accountant by training.prh47bridge said:
A comment that misses the point completely.ThreeQuidder said:
All businesses pay VAT on their taxable purchases...prh47bridge said:
Just to add, independent schools already pay VAT on supplies.prh47bridge said:
He can because it is not illegal under EU rules. The education exemption only applies to "bodies governed by public law having such as their aim or by other organisations recognised by the Member State concerned as having similar objects". Private schools are not governed by public law as they do not get most of their funding from the state. So all the government has to do is decide not to recognise private schools as having similar objects and they can charge VAT.boulay said:FPT rottenborough mentioned that Chapman wanted to charge VAT on private school fees. This is illegal under EU rules as it bans the charging of VAT on education provision. Can't have it both ways....
If the government agreed that private schools have similar objects to public bodies providing education to children and young people they would be forced to make supplies to private schools exempt, regardless of whether or not the private school is a business, because that is what the VAT directive says. The fact that private schools have to pay VAT on supplies shows that the government do not regard them has having similar objects and therefore the government can charge VAT on school fees.
His first reaction on hearing the crackers 'VAT on private schools' Labour plan was that he wondered if the proponents realised that if VAT is charged on fees then Indy schools would be entitled to reclaim VAT on purchases, like all other businesses. I'm guessing not.0 -
If they don't like their job they can quit and get another. If the employer was struggling to fill vacancies they would need to raise wages in order to attract new employees or keep hold of their experienced ones..Winstanley said:
I find this attitude bizarre. You expect railworkers to be sympathetic to your discomfort twice a year, when you're not sympathetic to their concerns about the thing they spend 40 hours a week doing. If railworkers never went on strike they'd still be getting paid 1911 rates.ThreeQuidder said:
Yes, the fucking RMT and ASLEF making my life miserable at least twice a year for the past twenty years even though I have no way of affecting their disputes (translation: "we want more money") and I can't even take my business elsewhere.Winstanley said:
Do you have any experience of strikes?ThreeQuidder said:Winstanley said:
YesThreeQuidder said:
You're blaming the council for the union choosing to strike?Winstanley said:
It's a shame the old Chartist demand for the ability to immediately recall representatives wasn't taken up. Seems to me like we have a situation where 1) the union is doing a pretty good job of representing the will of its members, the whole point of its existence; 2) the council is doing a crap job of representing the will of its electorate, the whole point of its existence.ThreeQuidder said:
Pointless. Ineffective.Winstanley said:What else do you call it when you do petitions and fire off emails at your representatives?
Maybe if there were better mechanisms of accountability the council would be 'getting round the table' etc. rather than trying to bully its workforce and allowing these strikes to continue...0 -
Look at the map. We can't ignore the EU whether we are moderate or extreme.Philip_Thompson said:
Hardly. The moment we leave the agenda becomes moving on. Refighting these battles will be the last thing on all but the most extremists minds.Recidivist said:
Hardly - the day we leave rejoining goes straight on the agenda.Richard_Nabavi said:The list of people thrashing around with completely impractical ways of trying to pretend that we are not leaving the EU gets longer by the day.
What's more, we'll have left by the next GE (almost certainly). A 'pro-EU' party will be as irrelevant as an 'anti-Indian-independence' party would have been in 1950.0 -
Sadly not - so indirectly independent schools are already paying significant amounts of VAT; as end user, rather than supplier...DavidL said:
As charities I think they can recoup that.ThreeQuidder said:
All businesses pay VAT on their taxable purchases...prh47bridge said:
Just to add, independent schools already pay VAT on supplies.prh47bridge said:
He can because it is not illegal under EU rules. The education exemption only applies to "bodies governed by public law having such as their aim or by other organisations recognised by the Member State concerned as having similar objects". Private schools are not governed by public law as they do not get most of their funding from the state. So all the government has to do is decide not to recognise private schools as having similar objects and they can charge VAT.boulay said:FPT rottenborough mentioned that Chapman wanted to charge VAT on private school fees. This is illegal under EU rules as it bans the charging of VAT on education provision. Can't have it both ways....
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I would imagine that a very large proportion of the the running costs of a school would be salaries and other non-VATable expenses, so I doubt whether they would be able to offset very much of their output VAT.Mortimer said:Incidentally, a pal is a Bursar who used to work in independent schools. He is an accountant by training.
His first reaction on hearing the crackers 'VAT on private schools' Labour plan was that he wondered if the proponents realised that if VAT is charged on fees then Indy schools would be entitled to reclaim VAT on purchases, like all other businesses. I'm guessing not.0 -
Or even more clever, how about they quit, organise amongst themselves and amongst the unemployed of their industry to ensure the employer struggles to fill vacancies, and only agree to return for better conditions. In other words, basically the way that strike action as we know it developed in the first place...Philip_Thompson said:
If they don't like their job they can quit and get another. If the employer was struggling to fill vacancies they would need to raise wages in order to attract new employees or keep hold of their experienced ones..Winstanley said:
I find this attitude bizarre. You expect railworkers to be sympathetic to your discomfort twice a year, when you're not sympathetic to their concerns about the thing they spend 40 hours a week doing. If railworkers never went on strike they'd still be getting paid 1911 rates.ThreeQuidder said:
Yes, the fucking RMT and ASLEF making my life miserable at least twice a year for the past twenty years even though I have no way of affecting their disputes (translation: "we want more money") and I can't even take my business elsewhere.Winstanley said:
Do you have any experience of strikes?ThreeQuidder said:Winstanley said:
YesThreeQuidder said:
You're blaming the council for the union choosing to strike?Winstanley said:
It's a shame the old Chartist demand for the ability to immediately recall representatives wasn't taken up. Seems to me like we have a situation where 1) the union is doing a pretty good job of representing the will of its members, the whole point of its existence; 2) the council is doing a crap job of representing the will of its electorate, the whole point of its existence.ThreeQuidder said:
Pointless. Ineffective.Winstanley said:What else do you call it when you do petitions and fire off emails at your representatives?
Maybe if there were better mechanisms of accountability the council would be 'getting round the table' etc. rather than trying to bully its workforce and allowing these strikes to continue...0 -
https://twitter.com/thomasknox/status/895982933160472576AndyJS said:This Twitter feed is making for interesting reading at the moment:
https://twitter.com/jameschappers0 -
One loony Leaver quoting another loony Leaver's tweets: Brexception.ThreeQuidder said:
https://twitter.com/thomasknox/status/895982933160472576AndyJS said:This Twitter feed is making for interesting reading at the moment:
https://twitter.com/jameschappers0 -
You've surely noticed that the vast majority of the tweet quoting action here is Remainiac on Remainiac?AlastairMeeks said:
One loony Leaver quoting another loony Leaver's tweets: Brexception.ThreeQuidder said:
https://twitter.com/thomasknox/status/895982933160472576AndyJS said:This Twitter feed is making for interesting reading at the moment:
https://twitter.com/jameschappers0 -
So 58% of Leavers want all EU citizens already in the UK to remain and 71% of Remainers do tooPong said:https://www.buzzfeed.com/jamesball/remain-and-leave-voters-are-surprisingly-united-on-backing?utm_term=.hhO3Lg6KO#.cu4ZzQLwD
Holy Moly
~42% of leavers want all EU citizens to leave the country?
Perhaps even more astonishing is the ~29% of remainers who also want all EU citizens to leave.
RIP liberal Britain.0 -
Merkel needs the AfD as well as the FDP to get a right of centre coalition over 50% so a CDU SPD coalition is likely to continueAndyJS said:Latest German poll:
CDU: 40%
SPD: 24%
Greens: 8%
Left: 8%
FDP: 8%
AfD: 8%
Others: 4%
http://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/0 -
Those numbers can't be right as they add up to way more than 100%. I think "want" here is misleading, I think it would be better described as "would accept an outcome where".HYUFD said:
So 58% of Leavers want all EU citizens already in the UK to remain and 71% of Remainers do tooPong said:https://www.buzzfeed.com/jamesball/remain-and-leave-voters-are-surprisingly-united-on-backing?utm_term=.hhO3Lg6KO#.cu4ZzQLwD
Holy Moly
~42% of leavers want all EU citizens to leave the country?
Perhaps even more astonishing is the ~29% of remainers who also want all EU citizens to leave.
RIP liberal Britain.0 -
Wait, whatWinstanley said:and amongst the unemployed of their industry to ensure the employer struggles to fill vacancies
How on earth does this work ?
Are new employees lives made a misery or some such. I do occasionally wonder how the mahoosively paid train driver (For instance) jobs aren't bursting at the seems with applicants..
Why would anyone unemployed 'cooperate' to not get themselves a job ?0 -
Well, if a loony anti-democrat is going to have an embarrassing breakdown all over Twitter, one can expect people to point it out.AlastairMeeks said:
One loony Leaver quoting another loony Leaver's tweets: Brexception.ThreeQuidder said:
https://twitter.com/thomasknox/status/895982933160472576AndyJS said:This Twitter feed is making for interesting reading at the moment:
https://twitter.com/jameschappers0 -
LU only recruits internally. You have to serve your time as a station assistant first.Pulpstar said:
Wait, whatWinstanley said:and amongst the unemployed of their industry to ensure the employer struggles to fill vacancies
How on earth does this work ?
Are new employees lives made a misery or some such. I do occasionally wonder how the mahoosively paid train driver (For instance) jobs aren't bursting at the seems with applicants..0 -
Which in legal terms means the same thingThreeQuidder said:
Those numbers can't be right as they add up to way more than 100%. I think "want" here is misleading, I think it would be better described as "would accept an outcome where".HYUFD said:
So 58% of Leavers want all EU citizens already in the UK to remain and 71% of Remainers do tooPong said:https://www.buzzfeed.com/jamesball/remain-and-leave-voters-are-surprisingly-united-on-backing?utm_term=.hhO3Lg6KO#.cu4ZzQLwD
Holy Moly
~42% of leavers want all EU citizens to leave the country?
Perhaps even more astonishing is the ~29% of remainers who also want all EU citizens to leave.
RIP liberal Britain.0 -
## LAST CALL ##
PB fantasy premier league starts tonight.... please join us and ensure TSE finishes way out of the top spots once again!
The link to the relevant league is in one of my recent posts ....0 -
I was making a historical point re: 'just quit and get another job' and how the consequences of that idea ultimately are the modern strike. Read the Webbs History of Trade Unionism, Hobsbawm's essay on 'the Tramping Artisan', and other histories of early craft unions. Journeymen in various crafts organised so as not to undercut each other in this way, a development towards the trade unionism we have now.Pulpstar said:
Wait, whatWinstanley said:and amongst the unemployed of their industry to ensure the employer struggles to fill vacancies
How on earth does this work ?
Are new employees lives made a misery or some such. I do occasionally wonder how the mahoosively paid train driver (For instance) jobs aren't bursting at the seems with applicants..
Why would anyone unemployed 'cooperate' to not get themselves a job ?0 -
You need to eliminate the parties that don't make the cut before working out where the threshold for a majority is.HYUFD said:
Merkel needs the AfD as well as the FDP to get a right of centre coalition over 50% so a CDU SPD coalition is likely to continueAndyJS said:Latest German poll:
CDU: 40%
SPD: 24%
Greens: 8%
Left: 8%
FDP: 8%
AfD: 8%
Others: 4%
http://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/0 -
Even on an issue like this they play the man not the ball. Telling.AlastairMeeks said:One loony Leaver quoting another loony Leaver's tweets: Brexception.
https://twitter.com/jameschappers/status/8960444351040512040 -
I suppose what Trump is really doing is piling pressure on China to make Kim back down, or get rid of him. He is actually quite well-positioned in every possible outcome of this situation (provided he has a good bunker for the 'nuclear armageddon' scenario.0
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On that poll the AfD and the FDP will make the cutwilliamglenn said:
You need to eliminate the parties that don't make the cut before working out where the threshold for a majority is.HYUFD said:
Merkel needs the AfD as well as the FDP to get a right of centre coalition over 50% so a CDU SPD coalition is likely to continueAndyJS said:Latest German poll:
CDU: 40%
SPD: 24%
Greens: 8%
Left: 8%
FDP: 8%
AfD: 8%
Others: 4%
http://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/0 -
They can't engage with his arguments so they threaten him with a doing-over by the Daily Mail and post nude pictures of him online.williamglenn said:
Even on an issue like this they play the man not the ball. Telling.AlastairMeeks said:One loony Leaver quoting another loony Leaver's tweets: Brexception.
https://twitter.com/jameschappers/status/8960444351040512040 -
And CDU/CSU + FDP would have 50% together.HYUFD said:
On that poll the AfD and the FDP will make the cutwilliamglenn said:
You need to eliminate the parties that don't make the cut before working out where the threshold for a majority is.HYUFD said:
Merkel needs the AfD as well as the FDP to get a right of centre coalition over 50% so a CDU SPD coalition is likely to continueAndyJS said:Latest German poll:
CDU: 40%
SPD: 24%
Greens: 8%
Left: 8%
FDP: 8%
AfD: 8%
Others: 4%
http://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/
Merkel has been meticulous in keeping her options open with the Greens too. For once, Jamaica is a realistic possibility.0 -
48% I think and the AfD winning seats makes a Jamaica coalition unlikely, the CSU would not work with the Greens over the AfD and the Greens would be reluctant to back the CDU CSUwilliamglenn said:
And CDU/CSU + FDP would have 50% together.HYUFD said:
On that poll the AfD and the FDP will make the cutwilliamglenn said:
You need to eliminate the parties that don't make the cut before working out where the threshold for a majority is.HYUFD said:
Merkel needs the AfD as well as the FDP to get a right of centre coalition over 50% so a CDU SPD coalition is likely to continueAndyJS said:Latest German poll:
CDU: 40%
SPD: 24%
Greens: 8%
Left: 8%
FDP: 8%
AfD: 8%
Others: 4%
http://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/
Merkel has been meticulous in keeping her options open with the Greens too. For once, Jamaica is a realistic possibility.0 -
His argument, such as it is, is that the demands of the little people should be ignored. There's no engaging with that.AlastairMeeks said:
They can't engage with his arguments so they threaten him with a doing-over by the Daily Mail and post nude pictures of him online.williamglenn said:
Even on an issue like this they play the man not the ball. Telling.AlastairMeeks said:One loony Leaver quoting another loony Leaver's tweets: Brexception.
https://twitter.com/jameschappers/status/8960444351040512040 -
That is not his argument at all.ThreeQuidder said:
His argument, such as it is, is that the demands of the little people should be ignored. There's no engaging with that.AlastairMeeks said:
They can't engage with his arguments so they threaten him with a doing-over by the Daily Mail and post nude pictures of him online.williamglenn said:
Even on an issue like this they play the man not the ball. Telling.AlastairMeeks said:One loony Leaver quoting another loony Leaver's tweets: Brexception.
https://twitter.com/jameschappers/status/8960444351040512040 -
I'm not sure it's RIP - I think it's more that these views have not previously been heard, whereas metropolitan liberal "citizens of nowhere" views have, their holders moreover mistaking their own opinions for a settled and overwhelming consensus.Pong said:https://www.buzzfeed.com/jamesball/remain-and-leave-voters-are-surprisingly-united-on-backing?utm_term=.hhO3Lg6KO#.cu4ZzQLwD
Holy Moly
~42% of leavers want all EU citizens to leave the country?
Perhaps even more astonishing is the ~29% of remainers who also want all EU citizens to leave.
RIP liberal Britain.
I have no idea how this 36% who want them all sent back think taxis, builders, hospitals and the hospitality trade will continue to function if it ever happened. I wonder if there's some cognitive dissonance here, whereby they think both that there are too many immigrants, but also think there aren't very many immigrants, so it won't matter if they're all expelled?0 -
They should allow access to facilities, but charge the going rate for it.DavidL said:
Didn't know that. Much obliged. Makes the argument that they should be denied chartable status even more bizarre when the benefits are so modest anyway. Surprised more schools have not just said fine and no, you will not have access to our facilities at all nor will we be sending any staff that we pay to other schools to help out.prh47bridge said:
No they can't. They repeatedly complain about that to the government. See https://www.isc.co.uk/about-isc/school-charities-and-tax/ (the section headed Independent Schools and Tax) for details.DavidL said:
As charities I think they can recoup that.ThreeQuidder said:
All businesses pay VAT on their taxable purchases...prh47bridge said:
Just to add, independent schools already pay VAT on supplies.prh47bridge said:
He can because it is not illegal under EU rules. The education exemption only applies to "bodies governed by public law having such as their aim or by other organisations recognised by the Member State concerned as having similar objects". Private schools are not governed by public law as they do not get most of their funding from the state. So all the government has to do is decide not to recognise private schools as having similar objects and they can charge VAT.boulay said:FPT rottenborough mentioned that Chapman wanted to charge VAT on private school fees. This is illegal under EU rules as it bans the charging of VAT on education provision. Can't have it both ways....
0 -
https://twitter.com/jameschappers/status/895014262804033536AlastairMeeks said:
That is not his argument at all.ThreeQuidder said:
His argument, such as it is, is that the demands of the little people should be ignored. There's no engaging with that.AlastairMeeks said:
They can't engage with his arguments so they threaten him with a doing-over by the Daily Mail and post nude pictures of him online.williamglenn said:
Even on an issue like this they play the man not the ball. Telling.AlastairMeeks said:One loony Leaver quoting another loony Leaver's tweets: Brexception.
https://twitter.com/jameschappers/status/8960444351040512040 -
Yes, quite. Not arguing that the demands of the little people should be ignored. Arguing that Brexit is a catastrophe and the democratically elected representatives who have formed the same view should come together to seek to avert it.ThreeQuidder said:
https://twitter.com/jameschappers/status/895014262804033536AlastairMeeks said:
That is not his argument at all.ThreeQuidder said:
His argument, such as it is, is that the demands of the little people should be ignored. There's no engaging with that.AlastairMeeks said:
They can't engage with his arguments so they threaten him with a doing-over by the Daily Mail and post nude pictures of him online.williamglenn said:
Even on an issue like this they play the man not the ball. Telling.AlastairMeeks said:One loony Leaver quoting another loony Leaver's tweets: Brexception.
https://twitter.com/jameschappers/status/8960444351040512040 -
That is exactly saying that the demands of the little people should be ignored as the little people have demanded that we Leave the EU.AlastairMeeks said:
Yes, quite. Not arguing that the demands of the little people should be ignored. Arguing that Brexit is a catastrophe and the democratically elected representatives who have formed the same view should come together to seek to avert it.ThreeQuidder said:
https://twitter.com/jameschappers/status/895014262804033536AlastairMeeks said:
That is not his argument at all.ThreeQuidder said:
His argument, such as it is, is that the demands of the little people should be ignored. There's no engaging with that.AlastairMeeks said:
They can't engage with his arguments so they threaten him with a doing-over by the Daily Mail and post nude pictures of him online.williamglenn said:
Even on an issue like this they play the man not the ball. Telling.AlastairMeeks said:One loony Leaver quoting another loony Leaver's tweets: Brexception.
https://twitter.com/jameschappers/status/8960444351040512040 -
No it's not exactly the same. The public decided to vote to sail down a river. If you see Niagara ahead, it is not ignoring the demands of the little people for the crew to take matters into their own hands.ThreeQuidder said:
That is exactly saying that the demands of the little people should be ignored as the little people have demanded that we Leave the EU.AlastairMeeks said:
Yes, quite. Not arguing that the demands of the little people should be ignored. Arguing that Brexit is a catastrophe and the democratically elected representatives who have formed the same view should come together to seek to avert it.ThreeQuidder said:
https://twitter.com/jameschappers/status/895014262804033536AlastairMeeks said:
That is not his argument at all.ThreeQuidder said:
His argument, such as it is, is that the demands of the little people should be ignored. There's no engaging with that.AlastairMeeks said:
They can't engage with his arguments so they threaten him with a doing-over by the Daily Mail and post nude pictures of him online.williamglenn said:
Even on an issue like this they play the man not the ball. Telling.AlastairMeeks said:One loony Leaver quoting another loony Leaver's tweets: Brexception.
https://twitter.com/jameschappers/status/896044435104051204
I should point out that personally I don't agree with James Chapman. But this idea that democracy stopped on 23 June 2016 is ridiculous.0 -
Just as well Nigel Farage was made of sterner stuff. Otherwise people like you would have put him off.ThreeQuidder said:
That is exactly saying that the demands of the little people should be ignored as the little people have demanded that we Leave the EU.AlastairMeeks said:
Yes, quite. Not arguing that the demands of the little people should be ignored. Arguing that Brexit is a catastrophe and the democratically elected representatives who have formed the same view should come together to seek to avert it.ThreeQuidder said:
https://twitter.com/jameschappers/status/895014262804033536AlastairMeeks said:
That is not his argument at all.ThreeQuidder said:
His argument, such as it is, is that the demands of the little people should be ignored. There's no engaging with that.AlastairMeeks said:
They can't engage with his arguments so they threaten him with a doing-over by the Daily Mail and post nude pictures of him online.williamglenn said:
Even on an issue like this they play the man not the ball. Telling.AlastairMeeks said:One loony Leaver quoting another loony Leaver's tweets: Brexception.
https://twitter.com/jameschappers/status/8960444351040512040 -
Strike action isn't quitting, it is saying you still work there but are refusing to do so and preventing the employer from filling the vacancies because they'd have twice as many staff when the strike ended than they need. If they quit then they might find there is a queue of people willing and waiting to fill those vacancies.Winstanley said:
Or even more clever, how about they quit, organise amongst themselves and amongst the unemployed of their industry to ensure the employer struggles to fill vacancies, and only agree to return for better conditions. In other words, basically the way that strike action as we know it developed in the first place...Philip_Thompson said:
If they don't like their job they can quit and get another. If the employer was struggling to fill vacancies they would need to raise wages in order to attract new employees or keep hold of their experienced ones..Winstanley said:
I find this attitude bizarre. You expect railworkers to be sympathetic to your discomfort twice a year, when you're not sympathetic to their concerns about the thing they spend 40 hours a week doing. If railworkers never went on strike they'd still be getting paid 1911 rates.ThreeQuidder said:
Yes, the fucking RMT and ASLEF making my life miserable at least twice a year for the past twenty years even though I have no way of affecting their disputes (translation: "we want more money") and I can't even take my business elsewhere.Winstanley said:
Do you have any experience of strikes?ThreeQuidder said:Winstanley said:
YesThreeQuidder said:
You're blaming the council for the union choosing to strike?Winstanley said:
It's a shame the old Chartist demand for the ability to immediately recall representatives wasn't taken up. Seems to me like we have a situation where 1) the union is doing a pretty good job of representing the will of its members, the whole point of its existence; 2) the council is doing a crap job of representing the will of its electorate, the whole point of its existence.ThreeQuidder said:
Pointless. Ineffective.Winstanley said:What else do you call it when you do petitions and fire off emails at your representatives?
Maybe if there were better mechanisms of accountability the council would be 'getting round the table' etc. rather than trying to bully its workforce and allowing these strikes to continue...0 -
I *think* one of James' Chapman's tweets may well have overstepped the mark in his tw@tter war with Paul Staines...
I'll refrain from reposting here as I don't want the legal writs and bills to land on Our Genial Hosts' doormat ^_~0 -
And yet a party with this policy was rejected at a general election a couple of months ago.AlastairMeeks said:
Yes, quite. Not arguing that the demands of the little people should be ignored. Arguing that Brexit is a catastrophe and the democratically elected representatives who have formed the same view should come together to seek to avert it.ThreeQuidder said:
https://twitter.com/jameschappers/status/895014262804033536AlastairMeeks said:
That is not his argument at all.ThreeQuidder said:
His argument, such as it is, is that the demands of the little people should be ignored. There's no engaging with that.AlastairMeeks said:
They can't engage with his arguments so they threaten him with a doing-over by the Daily Mail and post nude pictures of him online.williamglenn said:
Even on an issue like this they play the man not the ball. Telling.AlastairMeeks said:One loony Leaver quoting another loony Leaver's tweets: Brexception.
https://twitter.com/jameschappers/status/896044435104051204
Pray tell what other policies Mr Chapman is proposing for his new party.0 -
Nobody is going to work with the AfD. But on that poll the Others: 4% won't make the cut meaning that 48% becomes 50%. CDU/CSU & FDP would have a slender majority most likely on that poll.HYUFD said:
48% I think and the AfD winning seats makes a Jamaica coalition unlikely, the CSU would not work with the Greens over the AfD and the Greens would be reluctant to back the CDU CSUwilliamglenn said:
And CDU/CSU + FDP would have 50% together.HYUFD said:
On that poll the AfD and the FDP will make the cutwilliamglenn said:
You need to eliminate the parties that don't make the cut before working out where the threshold for a majority is.HYUFD said:
Merkel needs the AfD as well as the FDP to get a right of centre coalition over 50% so a CDU SPD coalition is likely to continueAndyJS said:Latest German poll:
CDU: 40%
SPD: 24%
Greens: 8%
Left: 8%
FDP: 8%
AfD: 8%
Others: 4%
http://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/
Merkel has been meticulous in keeping her options open with the Greens too. For once, Jamaica is a realistic possibility.0 -
Take a look at his twitter account. He proposed a lot.Baskerville said:
And yet a party with this policy was rejected at a general election a couple of months ago.AlastairMeeks said:
Yes, quite. Not arguing that the demands of the little people should be ignored. Arguing that Brexit is a catastrophe and the democratically elected representatives who have formed the same view should come together to seek to avert it.ThreeQuidder said:
https://twitter.com/jameschappers/status/895014262804033536AlastairMeeks said:
That is not his argument at all.ThreeQuidder said:
His argument, such as it is, is that the demands of the little people should be ignored. There's no engaging with that.AlastairMeeks said:
They can't engage with his arguments so they threaten him with a doing-over by the Daily Mail and post nude pictures of him online.williamglenn said:
Even on an issue like this they play the man not the ball. Telling.AlastairMeeks said:One loony Leaver quoting another loony Leaver's tweets: Brexception.
https://twitter.com/jameschappers/status/896044435104051204
Pray tell what other policies Mr Chapman is proposing for his new party.0 -
You do realise an employer can basically sack strikers for breach of contract, do you? What he can't do is selectively sack and re-engage, but he can tell all strikers to feck off and not come back. So your scenario of having exactly 2x too many workers won't arise.Philip_Thompson said:
Strike action isn't quitting, it is saying you still work there but are refusing to do so and preventing the employer from filling the vacancies because they'd have twice as many staff when the strike ended than they need. If they quit then they might find there is a queue of people willing and waiting to fill those vacancies.0 -
Up to a point, Mr Ville. It would probably be ore exact to say that 40% were so horrified at the thought of a TMay dictatorship, that they rushed off to vote Labour to prevent that. And another 40% were so appalled by the thought of a Corbyn socialist state that they voted Tory without a second thought.Baskerville said:And yet a party with this policy was rejected at a general election a couple of months ago.
The threats of the inept Brexit negotiations was too far into the future to worry about. But things are changing now.
That said, Mr Chapman has also lost the plot.0 -
C'mon, this is nothing but raging at the dying of the light. Brexit is underway and will be delivered, for good or ill. Whatever Mr Chapman's motives or state of mind, his August silly season prospectus is going nowhere.AlastairMeeks said:
Take a look at his twitter account. He proposed a lot.Baskerville said:
And yet a party with this policy was rejected at a general election a couple of months ago.AlastairMeeks said:
Yes, quite. Not arguing that the demands of the little people should be ignored. Arguing that Brexit is a catastrophe and the democratically elected representatives who have formed the same view should come together to seek to avert it.ThreeQuidder said:
https://twitter.com/jameschappers/status/895014262804033536AlastairMeeks said:
That is not his argument at all.ThreeQuidder said:
His argument, such as it is, is that the demands of the little people should be ignored. There's no engaging with that.AlastairMeeks said:
They can't engage with his arguments so they threaten him with a doing-over by the Daily Mail and post nude pictures of him online.williamglenn said:
Even on an issue like this they play the man not the ball. Telling.AlastairMeeks said:One loony Leaver quoting another loony Leaver's tweets: Brexception.
https://twitter.com/jameschappers/status/896044435104051204
Pray tell what other policies Mr Chapman is proposing for his new party.
AC Grayling, Will Hutton and now Chapman comparing Brexit to treason, Dunkirk or WW2 in general are displaying seanT's Brexomania or Brexychosis in spades.
Someone linked to DD's memo to the Lords yesterday - http://www.parliament.uk/documents/lords-committees/eu-select/Correspondence-2017-19/09-08-17-Letter-from-David-Davis-MP.pdf
Clearly, this is not chaos. It may not suit Mr Chapman, you, or up to 48% of the voters, but it is ongoing and there is a timetable that will be met.0 -
I expect they think wages will normalise, and those jobs will be filled by non-immigrants.Alice_Aforethought said:
I'm not sure it's RIP - I think it's more that these views have not previously been heard, whereas metropolitan liberal "citizens of nowhere" views have, their holders moreover mistaking their own opinions for a settled and overwhelming consensus.Pong said:https://www.buzzfeed.com/jamesball/remain-and-leave-voters-are-surprisingly-united-on-backing?utm_term=.hhO3Lg6KO#.cu4ZzQLwD
Holy Moly
~42% of leavers want all EU citizens to leave the country?
Perhaps even more astonishing is the ~29% of remainers who also want all EU citizens to leave.
RIP liberal Britain.
I have no idea how this 36% who want them all sent back think taxis, builders, hospitals and the hospitality trade will continue to function if it ever happened. I wonder if there's some cognitive dissonance here, whereby they think both that there are too many immigrants, but also think there aren't very many immigrants, so it won't matter if they're all expelled?0 -
The poll's very contradictory, since people are asked 5 different propositions on this, but can agree or disagree with all of them. Most people have picked more than one. And I suspect they're intrepreting the question as "Should all EU citizens lose the automatic right to stay?" rather than "shall we expel every last doctor and scientist?"Alice_Aforethought said:
I'm not sure it's RIP - I think it's more that these views have not previously been heard, whereas metropolitan liberal "citizens of nowhere" views have, their holders moreover mistaking their own opinions for a settled and overwhelming consensus.Pong said:https://www.buzzfeed.com/jamesball/remain-and-leave-voters-are-surprisingly-united-on-backing?utm_term=.hhO3Lg6KO#.cu4ZzQLwD
Holy Moly
~42% of leavers want all EU citizens to leave the country?
Perhaps even more astonishing is the ~29% of remainers who also want all EU citizens to leave.
RIP liberal Britain.
I have no idea how this 36% who want them all sent back think taxis, builders, hospitals and the hospitality trade will continue to function if it ever happened. I wonder if there's some cognitive dissonance here, whereby they think both that there are too many immigrants, but also think there aren't very many immigrants, so it won't matter if they're all expelled?0 -
Just received endearingly batty email from Sam at ReadyForMogg.org saying please crowdfund them. JRM could presumably put a stop to this with one behind the scenes email, or one tweet. But hasn't...0
-
Your interpretation of the voters' intent is as likely as any, but it doesn't change the result, which is a Tory government (with DUP support) committed to delivering Brexit, sitting across from HM's Official Opposition that is also committed to Brexit.PClipp said:
Up to a point, Mr Ville. It would probably be ore exact to say that 40% were so horrified at the thought of a TMay dictatorship, that they rushed off to vote Labour to prevent that. And another 40% were so appalled by the thought of a Corbyn socialist state that they voted Tory without a second thought.Baskerville said:And yet a party with this policy was rejected at a general election a couple of months ago.
The threats of the inept Brexit negotiations was too far into the future to worry about. But things are changing now.
That said, Mr Chapman has also lost the plot.
Chapman and others may believe that a majority of MPs would defy their party members and party whips as well as the voters, but he, and most of the others, like Jeremy Cliffe of the Economist who is also cheerleading for this new grouping, have never stood for election to as much as a parish council, so are whistling in the wind.
Let's call their new anti-Brexit group The Wishful Thinking Party, or the We Know Better Than You Party, or the Don't Worry Your Pretty Little Heads We've Got This Party.0 -
The probability that SPD, Greens and AfD would ever vote together is so small that Merkel needn't worry about it, even if CDU/CSU-FDP were just short of an overall majority - it's like worrying that Labour, LibDems, Greens and UKIP might make common cause. But I agree that they might include the Greens if they felt they needed a confortable majority. I don't think that HYUFD is correct that the CSU would veto it - in practice they always go with the CDU, despite public grumbling.0
-
There is no such idea. But democracy requires that the decisions taken by the people are implemented by the politicians.AlastairMeeks said:
No it's not exactly the same. The public decided to vote to sail down a river. If you see Niagara ahead, it is not ignoring the demands of the little people for the crew to take matters into their own hands.ThreeQuidder said:
That is exactly saying that the demands of the little people should be ignored as the little people have demanded that we Leave the EU.AlastairMeeks said:
Yes, quite. Not arguing that the demands of the little people should be ignored. Arguing that Brexit is a catastrophe and the democratically elected representatives who have formed the same view should come together to seek to avert it.ThreeQuidder said:
https://twitter.com/jameschappers/status/895014262804033536AlastairMeeks said:
That is not his argument at all.ThreeQuidder said:
His argument, such as it is, is that the demands of the little people should be ignored. There's no engaging with that.AlastairMeeks said:
They can't engage with his arguments so they threaten him with a doing-over by the Daily Mail and post nude pictures of him online.williamglenn said:
Even on an issue like this they play the man not the ball. Telling.AlastairMeeks said:One loony Leaver quoting another loony Leaver's tweets: Brexception.
https://twitter.com/jameschappers/status/896044435104051204
I should point out that personally I don't agree with James Chapman. But this idea that democracy stopped on 23 June 2016 is ridiculous.
The idea that the politicians can say to the people "you got it wrong, vote again" is as anti-democratic as Maduro saying "you got it wrong in the 2015 National Assembly election" and following it as he has.0 -
You are wrong. A employer can't sack striking employees if a ballot was called etc, at least for the first 12 weeks of the dispute. After 12 weeks an employer can if they have tried to resolve the dispute eg via ACAS but three months is a very long time to be without employees and unions generally stop and restart the strike action so that the 12 week threshold isn't met.Ishmael_Z said:
You do realise an employer can basically sack strikers for breach of contract, do you? What he can't do is selectively sack and re-engage, but he can tell all strikers to feck off and not come back. So your scenario of having exactly 2x too many workers won't arise.Philip_Thompson said:
Strike action isn't quitting, it is saying you still work there but are refusing to do so and preventing the employer from filling the vacancies because they'd have twice as many staff when the strike ended than they need. If they quit then they might find there is a queue of people willing and waiting to fill those vacancies.
https://www.gov.uk/industrial-action-strikes/your-employment-rights-during-industrial-action0 -
So what's your solution for the Irish border?ThreeQuidder said:
There is no such idea. But democracy requires that the decisions taken by the people are implemented by the politicians.AlastairMeeks said:
No it's not exactly the same. The public decided to vote to sail down a river. If you see Niagara ahead, it is not ignoring the demands of the little people for the crew to take matters into their own hands.ThreeQuidder said:
That is exactly saying that the demands of the little people should be ignored as the little people have demanded that we Leave the EU.AlastairMeeks said:
Yes, quite. Not arguing that the demands of the little people should be ignored. Arguing that Brexit is a catastrophe and the democratically elected representatives who have formed the same view should come together to seek to avert it.ThreeQuidder said:
https://twitter.com/jameschappers/status/895014262804033536AlastairMeeks said:
That is not his argument at all.ThreeQuidder said:
His argument, such as it is, is that the demands of the little people should be ignored. There's no engaging with that.AlastairMeeks said:
They can't engage with his arguments so they threaten him with a doing-over by the Daily Mail and post nude pictures of him online.williamglenn said:
Even on an issue like this they play the man not the ball. Telling.AlastairMeeks said:One loony Leaver quoting another loony Leaver's tweets: Brexception.
https://twitter.com/jameschappers/status/896044435104051204
I should point out that personally I don't agree with James Chapman. But this idea that democracy stopped on 23 June 2016 is ridiculous.0 -
That the EU grants us free trade and free movement across the border to NI. And preferably free trade with the rest of the EU too.williamglenn said:
So what's your solution for the Irish border?ThreeQuidder said:
There is no such idea. But democracy requires that the decisions taken by the people are implemented by the politicians.AlastairMeeks said:
No it's not exactly the same. The public decided to vote to sail down a river. If you see Niagara ahead, it is not ignoring the demands of the little people for the crew to take matters into their own hands.ThreeQuidder said:
That is exactly saying that the demands of the little people should be ignored as the little people have demanded that we Leave the EU.AlastairMeeks said:
Yes, quite. Not arguing that the demands of the little people should be ignored. Arguing that Brexit is a catastrophe and the democratically elected representatives who have formed the same view should come together to seek to avert it.ThreeQuidder said:
https://twitter.com/jameschappers/status/895014262804033536AlastairMeeks said:
That is not his argument at all.ThreeQuidder said:
His argument, such as it is, is that the demands of the little people should be ignored. There's no engaging with that.AlastairMeeks said:
They can't engage with his arguments so they threaten him with a doing-over by the Daily Mail and post nude pictures of him online.williamglenn said:
Even on an issue like this they play the man not the ball. Telling.AlastairMeeks said:One loony Leaver quoting another loony Leaver's tweets: Brexception.
https://twitter.com/jameschappers/status/896044435104051204
I should point out that personally I don't agree with James Chapman. But this idea that democracy stopped on 23 June 2016 is ridiculous.
Since the UK is free to negotiate movement restrictions according to our own requirements and EU member states [especially Ireland] are free to negotiate their own movement requirements, if the UK and Eire agree free movement across the Common Travel Area that doesn't extend to the EU then that is for us to agree. It is in fact the existing policy so nothing needs to change.
It's only the EU's desire not to concede us free trade at this stage that is making the Irish border an issue.0 -
Plausible deniability.Ishmael_Z said:Just received endearingly batty email from Sam at ReadyForMogg.org saying please crowdfund them. JRM could presumably put a stop to this with one behind the scenes email, or one tweet. But hasn't...
He's probably privately loving this attention while being able to plausibly deny that it has anything to do with him. What purpose would stopping it serve?0 -
'Concede' free trade? They are going to impose free trade, and there's nothing you can do about it. We couldn't leave the single market if we tried.Philip_Thompson said:
That the EU grants us free trade and free movement across the border to NI. And preferably free trade with the rest of the EU too.williamglenn said:
So what's your solution for the Irish border?ThreeQuidder said:
There is no such idea. But democracy requires that the decisions taken by the people are implemented by the politicians.AlastairMeeks said:
No it's not exactly the same. The public decided to vote to sail down a river. If you see Niagara ahead, it is not ignoring the demands of the little people for the crew to take matters into their own hands.ThreeQuidder said:
That is exactly saying that the demands of the little people should be ignored as the little people have demanded that we Leave the EU.AlastairMeeks said:
Yes, quite. Not arguing that the demands of the little people should be ignored. Arguing that Brexit is a catastrophe and the democratically elected representatives who have formed the same view should come together to seek to avert it.ThreeQuidder said:
https://twitter.com/jameschappers/status/895014262804033536AlastairMeeks said:
That is not his argument at all.ThreeQuidder said:
His argument, such as it is, is that the demands of the little people should be ignored. There's no engaging with that.AlastairMeeks said:
They can't engage with his arguments so they threaten him with a doing-over by the Daily Mail and post nude pictures of him online.williamglenn said:
Even on an issue like this they play the man not the ball. Telling.AlastairMeeks said:One loony Leaver quoting another loony Leaver's tweets: Brexception.
https://twitter.com/jameschappers/status/896044435104051204
I should point out that personally I don't agree with James Chapman. But this idea that democracy stopped on 23 June 2016 is ridiculous.
Since the UK is free to negotiate movement restrictions according to our own requirements and EU member states [especially Ireland] are free to negotiate their own movement requirements, if the UK and Eire agree free movement across the Common Travel Area that doesn't extend to the EU then that is for us to agree. It is in fact the existing policy so nothing needs to change.
It's only the EU's desire not to concede us free trade at this stage that is making the Irish border an issue.0 -
That's fantastic news. If we can have free trade without paying any of the £350mn £270mn a week we were paying and without the ECJ jurisdiction and without the EU Commission and without the EU Parliament etc then that is wonderful.williamglenn said:
'Concede' free trade? They are going to impose free trade, and there's nothing you can do about it. We couldn't leave the single market if we tried.Philip_Thompson said:
That the EU grants us free trade and free movement across the border to NI. And preferably free trade with the rest of the EU too.williamglenn said:So what's your solution for the Irish border?
Since the UK is free to negotiate movement restrictions according to our own requirements and EU member states [especially Ireland] are free to negotiate their own movement requirements, if the UK and Eire agree free movement across the Common Travel Area that doesn't extend to the EU then that is for us to agree. It is in fact the existing policy so nothing needs to change.
It's only the EU's desire not to concede us free trade at this stage that is making the Irish border an issue.
Win/win/win/win/win - leaving the EU was the best idea ever. Thanks for that wonderful endorsement william.0 -
He will live to regret some of his tweets, I think.Pulpstar said:I *think* one of James' Chapman's tweets may well have overstepped the mark in his tw@tter war with Paul Staines...
I'll refrain from reposting here as I don't want the legal writs and bills to land on Our Genial Hosts' doormat ^_~
He is making a lot of enemies amongst Right-wing journalists who will now make it their mission to bay for his blood.0 -
Yes sorry, forgot about the 12 weeks. Doesn't make your scenario any more plausible, though.Philip_Thompson said:
You are wrong. A employer can't sack striking employees if a ballot was called etc, at least for the first 12 weeks of the dispute. After 12 weeks an employer can if they have tried to resolve the dispute eg via ACAS but three months is a very long time to be without employees and unions generally stop and restart the strike action so that the 12 week threshold isn't met.Ishmael_Z said:
You do realise an employer can basically sack strikers for breach of contract, do you? What he can't do is selectively sack and re-engage, but he can tell all strikers to feck off and not come back. So your scenario of having exactly 2x too many workers won't arise.Philip_Thompson said:
Strike action isn't quitting, it is saying you still work there but are refusing to do so and preventing the employer from filling the vacancies because they'd have twice as many staff when the strike ended than they need. If they quit then they might find there is a queue of people willing and waiting to fill those vacancies.
https://www.gov.uk/industrial-action-strikes/your-employment-rights-during-industrial-action0 -
What part of not leaving the single market did you not understand?Philip_Thompson said:
That's fantastic news. If we can have free trade without paying any of the £350mn £270mn a week we were paying and without the ECJ jurisdiction and without the EU Commission and without the EU Parliament etc then that is wonderful.williamglenn said:
'Concede' free trade? They are going to impose free trade, and there's nothing you can do about it. We couldn't leave the single market if we tried.Philip_Thompson said:
That the EU grants us free trade and free movement across the border to NI. And preferably free trade with the rest of the EU too.williamglenn said:So what's your solution for the Irish border?
Since the UK is free to negotiate movement restrictions according to our own requirements and EU member states [especially Ireland] are free to negotiate their own movement requirements, if the UK and Eire agree free movement across the Common Travel Area that doesn't extend to the EU then that is for us to agree. It is in fact the existing policy so nothing needs to change.
It's only the EU's desire not to concede us free trade at this stage that is making the Irish border an issue.
Win/win/win/win/win - leaving the EU was the best idea ever. Thanks for that wonderful endorsement william.0 -
Those journalists and politicians are on the wrong side of an epoch defining schism. They will get swept away with the rest of the Brexit detritus.Casino_Royale said:
He will live to regret some of his tweets, I think.Pulpstar said:I *think* one of James' Chapman's tweets may well have overstepped the mark in his tw@tter war with Paul Staines...
I'll refrain from reposting here as I don't want the legal writs and bills to land on Our Genial Hosts' doormat ^_~
He is making a lot of enemies amongst Right-wing journalists who will now make it their mission to bay for his blood.0 -
If an employee quit then the employer would have no choice but to try to fill the vacancy, which could include pay rises if supply and demand meant it was appropriate to do so.Ishmael_Z said:
Yes sorry, forgot about the 12 weeks. Doesn't make your scenario any more plausible, though.Philip_Thompson said:
You are wrong. A employer can't sack striking employees if a ballot was called etc, at least for the first 12 weeks of the dispute. After 12 weeks an employer can if they have tried to resolve the dispute eg via ACAS but three months is a very long time to be without employees and unions generally stop and restart the strike action so that the 12 week threshold isn't met.Ishmael_Z said:
You do realise an employer can basically sack strikers for breach of contract, do you? What he can't do is selectively sack and re-engage, but he can tell all strikers to feck off and not come back. So your scenario of having exactly 2x too many workers won't arise.Philip_Thompson said:
Strike action isn't quitting, it is saying you still work there but are refusing to do so and preventing the employer from filling the vacancies because they'd have twice as many staff when the strike ended than they need. If they quit then they might find there is a queue of people willing and waiting to fill those vacancies.
https://www.gov.uk/industrial-action-strikes/your-employment-rights-during-industrial-action
Strike action is almost the worst-case scenario for the employer as the employer has no employee yet can't replace the employee. It is the ultimate "have cake and eat it" scenario.0 -
Wow, you are Stuart Rose and I claim my five pounds....williamglenn said:
'Concede' free trade? They are going to impose free trade, and there's nothing you can do about it. We couldn't leave the single market if we tried.Philip_Thompson said:
That the EU grants us free trade and free movement across the border to NI. And preferably free trade with the rest of the EU too.williamglenn said:
So what's your solution for the Irish border?ThreeQuidder said:
There is no such idea. But democracy requires that the decisions taken by the people are implemented by the politicians.AlastairMeeks said:
No it's not exactly the same. The public decided to vote to sail down a river. If you see Niagara ahead, it is not ignoring the demands of the little people for the crew to take matters into their own hands.ThreeQuidder said:
That is exactly saying that the demands of the little people should be ignored as the little people have demanded that we Leave the EU.AlastairMeeks said:
Yes, quite. Not arguing that the demands of the little people should be ignored. Arguing that Brexit is a catastrophe and the democratically elected representatives who have formed the same view should come together to seek to avert it.ThreeQuidder said:
https://twitter.com/jameschappers/status/895014262804033536AlastairMeeks said:
That is not his argument at all.ThreeQuidder said:
.AlastairMeeks said:
They can't engage with his arguments so they threaten him with a doing-over by the Daily Mail and post nude pictures of him online.williamglenn said:
Even on an issue like this they play the man not the ball. Telling.AlastairMeeks said:One loony Leaver quoting another loony Leaver's tweets: Brexception.
https://twitter.com/jameschappers/status/896044435104051204
I should point out that personally I don't agree with James Chapman. But this idea that democracy stopped on 23 June 2016 is ridiculous.
Since the UK is free to negotiate movement restrictions according to our own requirements and EU member states [especially Ireland] are free to negotiate their own movement requirements, if the UK and Eire agree free movement across the Common Travel Area that doesn't extend to the EU then that is for us to agree. It is in fact the existing policy so nothing needs to change.
It's only the EU's desire not to concede us free trade at this stage that is making the Irish border an issue.0 -
We are leaving the ECJ etc. If we still have single market access without any of those burdens then brilliant we will have got everything we wanted without everything we didn't. You are being really optimistic for the pro-Brexit side for once.williamglenn said:
What part of not leaving the single market did you not understand?Philip_Thompson said:
That's fantastic news. If we can have free trade without paying any of the £350mn £270mn a week we were paying and without the ECJ jurisdiction and without the EU Commission and without the EU Parliament etc then that is wonderful.williamglenn said:
'Concede' free trade? They are going to impose free trade, and there's nothing you can do about it. We couldn't leave the single market if we tried.Philip_Thompson said:
That the EU grants us free trade and free movement across the border to NI. And preferably free trade with the rest of the EU too.williamglenn said:So what's your solution for the Irish border?
Since the UK is free to negotiate movement restrictions according to our own requirements and EU member states [especially Ireland] are free to negotiate their own movement requirements, if the UK and Eire agree free movement across the Common Travel Area that doesn't extend to the EU then that is for us to agree. It is in fact the existing policy so nothing needs to change.
It's only the EU's desire not to concede us free trade at this stage that is making the Irish border an issue.
Win/win/win/win/win - leaving the EU was the best idea ever. Thanks for that wonderful endorsement william.0 -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIGwwmvVY6wwilliamglenn said:
Those journalists and politicians are on the wrong side of an epoch defining schism. They will get swept away with the rest of the Brexit detritus.Casino_Royale said:
He will live to regret some of his tweets, I think.Pulpstar said:I *think* one of James' Chapman's tweets may well have overstepped the mark in his tw@tter war with Paul Staines...
I'll refrain from reposting here as I don't want the legal writs and bills to land on Our Genial Hosts' doormat ^_~
He is making a lot of enemies amongst Right-wing journalists who will now make it their mission to bay for his blood.0 -
Comical Ali back on duty, I see.williamglenn said:
Those journalists and politicians are on the wrong side of an epoch defining schism. They will get swept away with the rest of the Brexit detritus.Casino_Royale said:
He will live to regret some of his tweets, I think.Pulpstar said:I *think* one of James' Chapman's tweets may well have overstepped the mark in his tw@tter war with Paul Staines...
I'll refrain from reposting here as I don't want the legal writs and bills to land on Our Genial Hosts' doormat ^_~
He is making a lot of enemies amongst Right-wing journalists who will now make it their mission to bay for his blood.0 -
'What tanks?'Casino_Royale said:
Comical Ali back on duty, I see.williamglenn said:
Those journalists and politicians are on the wrong side of an epoch defining schism. They will get swept away with the rest of the Brexit detritus.Casino_Royale said:
He will live to regret some of his tweets, I think.Pulpstar said:I *think* one of James' Chapman's tweets may well have overstepped the mark in his tw@tter war with Paul Staines...
I'll refrain from reposting here as I don't want the legal writs and bills to land on Our Genial Hosts' doormat ^_~
He is making a lot of enemies amongst Right-wing journalists who will now make it their mission to bay for his blood.0 -
Absolutely. Democracy also means that the same people can change their minds through another legal referendum. The clock did not stop on 23rd June 2016.ThreeQuidder said:
There is no such idea. But democracy requires that the decisions taken by the people are implemented by the politicians.AlastairMeeks said:
No it's not exactly the same. The public decided to vote to sail down a river. If you see Niagara ahead, it is not ignoring the demands of the little people for the crew to take matters into their own hands.ThreeQuidder said:
That is exactly saying that the demands of the little people should be ignored as the little people have demanded that we Leave the EU.AlastairMeeks said:
Yes, quite. Not arguing that the demands of the little people should be ignored. Arguing that Brexit is a catastrophe and the democratically elected representatives who have formed the same view should come together to seek to avert it.ThreeQuidder said:
https://twitter.com/jameschappers/status/895014262804033536AlastairMeeks said:
That is not his argument at all.ThreeQuidder said:
His argument, such as it is, is that the demands of the little people should be ignored. There's no engaging with that.AlastairMeeks said:
They can't engage with his arguments so they threaten him with a doing-over by the Daily Mail and post nude pictures of him online.williamglenn said:
Even on an issue like this they play the man not the ball. Telling.AlastairMeeks said:One loony Leaver quoting another loony Leaver's tweets: Brexception.
https://twitter.com/jameschappers/status/896044435104051204
I should point out that personally I don't agree with James Chapman. But this idea that democracy stopped on 23 June 2016 is ridiculous.
The idea that the politicians can say to the people "you got it wrong, vote again" is as anti-democratic as Maduro saying "you got it wrong in the 2015 National Assembly election" and following it as he has.
What is undemocratic about asking the people again ?0 -
From the Chinese viewpoint, why should they remove Kim ? They don't want a pro Western country with a land border. The nukes are inconvenient but Kim would not be hitting China with those.Luckyguy1983 said:I suppose what Trump is really doing is piling pressure on China to make Kim back down, or get rid of him. He is actually quite well-positioned in every possible outcome of this situation (provided he has a good bunker for the 'nuclear armageddon' scenario.
0 -
No. She does not. The AfD and the SPD and the Left will not vote on the same sideHYUFD said:
Merkel needs the AfD as well as the FDP to get a right of centre coalition over 50% so a CDU SPD coalition is likely to continueAndyJS said:Latest German poll:
CDU: 40%
SPD: 24%
Greens: 8%
Left: 8%
FDP: 8%
AfD: 8%
Others: 4%
http://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/0 -
Why ? International labour laws allow the withdrawl of labour. WhyTF do you not take a taxi ?Philip_Thompson said:
If they don't like their job they can quit and get another. If the employer was struggling to fill vacancies they would need to raise wages in order to attract new employees or keep hold of their experienced ones..Winstanley said:
I find this attitude bizarre. You expect railworkers to be sympathetic to your discomfort twice a year, when you're not sympathetic to their concerns about the thing they spend 40 hours a week doing. If railworkers never went on strike they'd still be getting paid 1911 rates.ThreeQuidder said:
Yes, the fucking RMT and ASLEF making my life miserable at least twice a year for the past twenty years even though I have no way of affecting their disputes (translation: "we want more money") and I can't even take my business elsewhere.Winstanley said:
Do you have any experience of strikes?ThreeQuidder said:Winstanley said:
YesThreeQuidder said:
You're blaming the council for the union choosing to strike?Winstanley said:
It's a shame the old Chartist demand for the ability to immediately recall representatives wasn't taken up. Seems to me like we have a situation where 1) the union is doing a pretty good job of representing the will of its members, the whole point of its existence; 2) the council is doing a crap job of representing the will of its electorate, the whole point of its existence.ThreeQuidder said:
Pointless. Ineffective.Winstanley said:What else do you call it when you do petitions and fire off emails at your representatives?
Maybe if there were better mechanisms of accountability the council would be 'getting round the table' etc. rather than trying to bully its workforce and allowing these strikes to continue...0 -
Depends when you do it. After we have implemented the Leave vote, a Rejoin referendum will be democratically legitimate.surbiton said:
Absolutely. Democracy also means that the same people can change their minds through another legal referendum. The clock did not stop on 23rd June 2016.ThreeQuidder said:
There is no such idea. But democracy requires that the decisions taken by the people are implemented by the politicians.AlastairMeeks said:
No it's not exactly the same. The public decided to vote to sail down a river. If you see Niagara ahead, it is not ignoring the demands of the little people for the crew to take matters into their own hands.ThreeQuidder said:
That is exactly saying that the demands of the little people should be ignored as the little people have demanded that we Leave the EU.AlastairMeeks said:
Yes, quite. Not arguing that the demands of the little people should be ignored. Arguing that Brexit is a catastrophe and the democratically elected representatives who have formed the same view should come together to seek to avert it.ThreeQuidder said:
https://twitter.com/jameschappers/status/895014262804033536AlastairMeeks said:
That is not his argument at all.ThreeQuidder said:
His argument, such as it is, is that the demands of the little people should be ignored. There's no engaging with that.AlastairMeeks said:
They can't engage with his arguments so they threaten him with a doing-over by the Daily Mail and post nude pictures of him online.williamglenn said:
Even on an issue like this they play the man not the ball. Telling.AlastairMeeks said:One loony Leaver quoting another loony Leaver's tweets: Brexception.
https://twitter.com/jameschappers/status/896044435104051204
I should point out that personally I don't agree with James Chapman. But this idea that democracy stopped on 23 June 2016 is ridiculous.
The idea that the politicians can say to the people "you got it wrong, vote again" is as anti-democratic as Maduro saying "you got it wrong in the 2015 National Assembly election" and following it as he has.
What is undemocratic about asking the people again ?0 -
You don't decide. Parliament does. Remember Parliament is sovereign. You lot told us that. If Parliament wants a referendum every week, that would be legal too ! After all, you don't have to vote.ThreeQuidder said:
Depends when you do it. After we have implemented the Leave vote, a Rejoin referendum will be democratically legitimate.surbiton said:
Absolutely. Democracy also means that the same people can change their minds through another legal referendum. The clock did not stop on 23rd June 2016.ThreeQuidder said:
There is no such idea. But democracy requires that the decisions taken by the people are implemented by the politicians.AlastairMeeks said:
No it's not exactly the same. The public decided to vote to sail down a river. If you see Niagara ahead, it is not ignoring the demands of the little people for the crew to take matters into their own hands.ThreeQuidder said:
That is exactly saying that the demands of the little people should be ignored as the little people have demanded that we Leave the EU.AlastairMeeks said:
Yes, quite. Not arguing that the demands of the little people should be ignored. Arguing that Brexit is a catastrophe and the democratically elected representatives who have formed the same view should come together to seek to avert it.ThreeQuidder said:
https://twitter.com/jameschappers/status/895014262804033536AlastairMeeks said:
That is not his argument at all.ThreeQuidder said:
His argument, such as it is, is that the demands of the little people should be ignored. There's no engaging with that.AlastairMeeks said:
They can't engage with his arguments so they threaten him with a doing-over by the Daily Mail and post nude pictures of him online.williamglenn said:
Even on an issue like this they play the man not the ball. Telling.AlastairMeeks said:One loony Leaver quoting another loony Leaver's tweets: Brexception.
https://twitter.com/jameschappers/status/896044435104051204
I should point out that personally I don't agree with James Chapman. But this idea that democracy stopped on 23 June 2016 is ridiculous.
The idea that the politicians can say to the people "you got it wrong, vote again" is as anti-democratic as Maduro saying "you got it wrong in the 2015 National Assembly election" and following it as he has.
What is undemocratic about asking the people again ?0 -
What if it's held preemptively to rubber-stamp the entry into force of a new accession treaty the day after we leave? Even your contorted arguments about democracy can't object to the legitimacy of that.ThreeQuidder said:
Depends when you do it. After we have implemented the Leave vote, a Rejoin referendum will be democratically legitimate.surbiton said:
Absolutely. Democracy also means that the same people can change their minds through another legal referendum. The clock did not stop on 23rd June 2016.ThreeQuidder said:
There is no such idea. But democracy requires that the decisions taken by the people are implemented by the politicians.AlastairMeeks said:
No it's not exactly the same. The public decided to vote to sail down a river. If you see Niagara ahead, it is not ignoring the demands of the little people for the crew to take matters into their own hands.ThreeQuidder said:
That is exactly saying that the demands of the little people should be ignored as the little people have demanded that we Leave the EU.AlastairMeeks said:
Yes, quite. Not arguing that the demands of the little people should be ignored. Arguing that Brexit is a catastrophe and the democratically elected representatives who have formed the same view should come together to seek to avert it.ThreeQuidder said:
https://twitter.com/jameschappers/status/895014262804033536AlastairMeeks said:
That is not his argument at all.ThreeQuidder said:
His argument, such as it is, is that the demands of the little people should be ignored. There's no engaging with that.AlastairMeeks said:
They can't engage with his arguments so they threaten him with a doing-over by the Daily Mail and post nude pictures of him online.williamglenn said:
Even on an issue like this they play the man not the ball. Telling.AlastairMeeks said:One loony Leaver quoting another loony Leaver's tweets: Brexception.
https://twitter.com/jameschappers/status/896044435104051204
I should point out that personally I don't agree with James Chapman. But this idea that democracy stopped on 23 June 2016 is ridiculous.
The idea that the politicians can say to the people "you got it wrong, vote again" is as anti-democratic as Maduro saying "you got it wrong in the 2015 National Assembly election" and following it as he has.
What is undemocratic about asking the people again ?0 -
North Korean News
https://twitter.com/DPRK_News/status/895010060757340160
Sadly the real North Korea is taking this whole pissing match very seriously this weekend.0 -
What sort of reality do you live in?williamglenn said:
What if it's held preemptively to rubber-stamp the entry into force of a new accession treaty the day after we leave? Even your contorted arguments about democracy can't object to the legitimacy of that.ThreeQuidder said:
Depends when you do it. After we have implemented the Leave vote, a Rejoin referendum will be democratically legitimate.surbiton said:
Absolutely. Democracy also means that the same people can change their minds through another legal referendum. The clock did not stop on 23rd June 2016.ThreeQuidder said:
There is no such idea. But democracy requires that the decisions taken by the people are implemented by the politicians.AlastairMeeks said:
No it's not exactly the same. The public decided to vote to sail down a river. If you see Niagara ahead, it is not ignoring the demands of the little people for the crew to take matters into their own hands.ThreeQuidder said:
That is exactly saying that the demands of the little people should be ignored as the little people have demanded that we Leave the EU.AlastairMeeks said:ThreeQuidder said:
https://twitter.com/jameschappers/status/895014262804033536AlastairMeeks said:
That is not his argument at all.ThreeQuidder said:
His argument, such as it is, is that the demands of the little people should be ignored. There's no engaging with that.AlastairMeeks said:
They can't engage with his arguments so they threaten him with a doing-over by the Daily Mail and post nude pictures of him online.williamglenn said:
Even on an issue like this they play the man not the ball. Telling.AlastairMeeks said:One loony Leaver quoting another loony Leaver's tweets: Brexception.
https://twitter.com/jameschappers/status/896044435104051204
I should point out that personally I don't agree with James Chapman. But this idea that democracy stopped on 23 June 2016 is ridiculous.
The idea that the politicians can say to the people "you got it wrong, vote again" is as anti-democratic as Maduro saying "you got it wrong in the 2015 National Assembly election" and following it as he has.
What is undemocratic about asking the people again ?
There are no votes for it in Parliament, the country would tear apart any party that did it, and the EU don't want it.
0 -
Amusing to see Chapman claim that Thatcher would have voted Remain. The president of the Bruges Group would have voted remain... Okaaaaay...Casino_Royale said:
He will live to regret some of his tweets, I think.Pulpstar said:I *think* one of James' Chapman's tweets may well have overstepped the mark in his tw@tter war with Paul Staines...
I'll refrain from reposting here as I don't want the legal writs and bills to land on Our Genial Hosts' doormat ^_~
He is making a lot of enemies amongst Right-wing journalists who will now make it their mission to bay for his blood.0 -
James Chapman's Twitter is a complete car crash today...
The man is totally unhinged!
0 -
She would definitely have voted remain.MP_SE2 said:
Amusing to see Chapman claim that Thatcher would have voted Remain. The president of the Bruges Group would have voted remain... Okaaaaay...Casino_Royale said:
He will live to regret some of his tweets, I think.Pulpstar said:I *think* one of James' Chapman's tweets may well have overstepped the mark in his tw@tter war with Paul Staines...
I'll refrain from reposting here as I don't want the legal writs and bills to land on Our Genial Hosts' doormat ^_~
He is making a lot of enemies amongst Right-wing journalists who will now make it their mission to bay for his blood.0 -
I think that's a really poor analysis of the situation. NK threatens China as well: Earlier in the year they threatened China with 'grave consequences' over their lack of recent support. Then there's the fear China has of millions of refugees crossing the border if NK were to fail, and the other risks of having NK next door.surbiton said:
From the Chinese viewpoint, why should they remove Kim ? They don't want a pro Western country with a land border. The nukes are inconvenient but Kim would not be hitting China with those.Luckyguy1983 said:I suppose what Trump is really doing is piling pressure on China to make Kim back down, or get rid of him. He is actually quite well-positioned in every possible outcome of this situation (provided he has a good bunker for the 'nuclear armageddon' scenario.
It's possible that China would see a unified, westernised Korea sans American troops more favourably than the status quo of an unstable NK and an SK with massive numbers of American forces near their borders.0 -
0
-
It depends which period of Maggies career. For most of her political life she was pro EU, and actively campaigned for single market inc FOM, and EU expansion to the East.MP_SE2 said:
Amusing to see Chapman claim that Thatcher would have voted Remain. The president of the Bruges Group would have voted remain... Okaaaaay...Casino_Royale said:
He will live to regret some of his tweets, I think.Pulpstar said:I *think* one of James' Chapman's tweets may well have overstepped the mark in his tw@tter war with Paul Staines...
I'll refrain from reposting here as I don't want the legal writs and bills to land on Our Genial Hosts' doormat ^_~
He is making a lot of enemies amongst Right-wing journalists who will now make it their mission to bay for his blood.0
This discussion has been closed.