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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » How an anti-Brexit party could be created without the need to leave existing parties
It has been rehearsed many time over – the massive challenges that a new party would face simply getting off the ground.
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It would seem seriously to undermine party discipline (which might be fine from a voter's POV, but certainly isn't from the party's), and risks giving a leg up to a new party getting itself established - and possibly poaching MPs.
I think a 'European' dual party whilst doable in theory falls at the first hurdle of say disavowing the whips of one of the big two where there is a conflict between 'Labour' and 'Democrats' (Or indeed the 'Conservatives' and 'Democrats' say.
I think candidates standing as 'Democrat & Conservative party', well they wouldn't get past the party selection.
Anyway, the gist of it was that no, the big parties won't allow it. They won't allow joint billing with themselves, they won't allow their candidates to serve two masters, they won't want to display their splits in public (between endorsed and non-endorsed candidates), and they won't want to flag up that some of their candidates superficially have more in common with members of other parties than with their own.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-40901746
What's more, we'll have left by the next GE (almost certainly). A 'pro-EU' party will be as irrelevant as an 'anti-Indian-independence' party would have been in 1950.
On another subject, in the "you'd need a heart of stone not to laugh" department:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/aug/11/migrant-rescue-ship-sails-to-aid-of-stranded-far-right-activists
https://forums.politicsisdead.com/topic/14-people-organising-remain-political-parties
Seems the Just Party are already up and running.
http://www.thejustparty.org.uk/
Unravelling already.
This is more an issue for the Tories, where in the case of most of their MPs I have no idea if they are Remain or Leave. In some cases they managed to campaign for both sides at different stages during the referendum campaign. Perhaps they could be more covert - describe themselves as "Conservative and Unionist" if they are pro-EU and simply as Conservative if they support Brexit.
https://www.buzzfeed.com/jamesball/remain-and-leave-voters-are-surprisingly-united-on-backing?utm_term=.wrQP10QJq#.mnnWp0oz2
I suspect FR and GE would arm twist everyone into agreeing.
But yes, they did manage to organise some marches and so on earlier.
Did they just have faith that if they protested enough and made enough noise, somehow one of the big parties, or just a mass rebellion of MPs, would see off the Article 50 threat?
The timeframe would have been very short for what they wanted to achieve, but if they'd got their backsides in serious gear, and a lot of big names had rallied to the cause, then perhaps the 2017 GE would have been their best chance of stopping Brexit. But they didn't even get themselves onto the ballot paper. Were they leaving the Lib Dems to do that for them? Mad mad mad if they thought the Lib Dems would really win that election on a Europhile wave. Instead the vast majority of votes went to parties that supported the referendum vote being respected.
Except that by the time of the next general election, we will have Left the EU.
The conclusion:
These results indicate that despite the impression given across the press and from politicians of a deeply divided nation, when voters think of the actual details of what they want from Brexit, neither group is that distinct – and generally they lean towards a harder Brexit.
Instead Labour's sensible-centrists chose to go ahead with their plan and fling themselves like lemmings at Corbyn and against the membership, giving the hard-line Brexiteers a free hand to define the referendum result however they wanted.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xGt3QmRSZY
Are you saying Remainers shouldn't have fallen for the bull promulgated by Leavers?
2015 was ideal for a coupon election, not now.
An interesting suggestion but the comparison also highlights a significant difference. The Co-op is a Labour identity. Not all Labour MPs are Co-op, but all Co-op MPs are Labour. The proposal above is for a cross-party subdivision not an intra-party divide.
How do the EU-phile MPs divide if Parliament is hung? If it's along party lines, then what impact has the tag had? If it's for whomever is most pro-EU, you almost* may as well form a new party.
*This approach is likely better, from their perspective, than forming a new party due to the FPTP system. That said, the hurdle may be exaggerated because UKIP were so bloody woeful. The Greens have achieved similar MP success with far lower vote shares nationally.
Getting out of the EU can be quick and easy – the UK holds most of the cards in any negotiation.
http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2016/07/17/getting-out-of-the-eu-can-be-quick-and-easy-the-uk-holds-most-of-the-cards-in-any-negotiation/
Volunteers helping to clear uncollected waste during a long-running bin strike have been labelled a "scab army".
The Bearded Broz, who have cleared 45 tonnes of waste in Birmingham during the six-week strike, were criticised in the socialist Morning Star.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-40897114
Perhaps if the moves involved dozens of MPs/Local Branches it could become a Fait Accompli but that would require a lot more guts than we have seen displayed so far.
The LD's are far more electable than you think (even you).
A groundbreaking project by the London School of Economics and Oxford University surveying more than 20,000 people – which BuzzFeed News has seen exclusively ahead of its official publication – reveals that when the British public are asked in detail what they want from the negotiations, there is more support for harder Brexit options because Leavers and a significant number of Remainers back them.
https://www.buzzfeed.com/jamesball/remain-and-leave-voters-are-surprisingly-united-on-backing?utm_term=.oj8dL0dY2w#.nhJ70O7gm3
But that's theoretical. No-one from the UK government is going to ask for it.
Except for leaving the customs union, I've said repeatedly I'm open to arguments on the best way to leave the EU. Not claiming to be representative of anyone other than myself, but the idea all Leave voters have the same view is as silly as claiming all Remain voters love the EU or want to adopt the euro.
Labour/New European
Conservative/New European
Liberal Democrat/New European
Green/New European
UKIP
CDU: 40%
SPD: 24%
Greens: 8%
Left: 8%
FDP: 8%
AfD: 8%
Others: 4%
http://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/
Maybe if there were better mechanisms of accountability the council would be 'getting round the table' etc. rather than trying to bully its workforce and allowing these strikes to continue...
It's interesting that the EU is offering a ring-fenced member state residency to UK nationals there but wishes the UK to offer UK residency across the whole UK to EU citizens located in the UK. The nature of the EU is clearly malleable. They're a purported negotiating counterparty, talking of exit payments and trade deals, when that's advantageous, but when it isn't, the EU rather conveniently becomes a collection of local states. Which is it to be?
MIFID 2 is profoundly against the interests of Britain's finance industry, but was imposed by the financial industry experts of places like Estonia and Hungary. Would Britain be able to damage the German car industry similarly, one wonders?
I was needlessly rude there, Nigel - please accept my apologies. I didn't mean to be and I do try not to be….
No offence taken, Alice.
I'm sure we can return to the discussion in due course.
Unite is arguing that the council is trying to pass the consequences of its own mismanagement of the service onto its lowest paid employees, who it represents, and have refused to engage in meaningful talks about changes to the service. The refuse workers haven't gone on strike to gain anything, but only to 'not lose as much'.
"A member of the party who joins and/ or supports a political organisation other than an official Labour group or other unit of the party, or supports any candidate who stands against an official Labour candidate, or publicly declares their intent to stand against a Labour candidate, shall automatically be ineligible to be or remain a party member, subject to the provisions of Chapter 6.I.2 below of the disciplinary rules."
The Conservative one puts it like this:
" Membership of the Conservative Party is not compatible with Membership of or association with
any other registered political party."
If the government agreed that private schools have similar objects to public bodies providing education to children and young people they would be forced to make supplies to private schools exempt, regardless of whether or not the private school is a business, because that is what the VAT directive says. The fact that private schools have to pay VAT on supplies shows that the government do not regard them has having similar objects and therefore the government can charge VAT on school fees.
https://twitter.com/jameschappers
The figures would actually be very similar to last time, except that the FDP and AfD would pop over the 5% threshold that the both narrowly missed last time. Refugee crisis? Euro crisis? Brexit? German voters say "meh".