Skip to content

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Remember when David Davis quit to fight a by-election the purp

SystemSystem Posts: 12,651
edited July 2017 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Remember when David Davis quit to fight a by-election the purpose of which was soon forgotten

If failed 2005 leadership candidate and current Brexit secretary, David Davis, does find himself campaigning to be TMay’s successor then every bit of his political career will be scrutinised for pointers to whether he’s up to the job or not.

Read the full story here


«1345

Comments

  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 52,731
    First!
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    Second! Like Corbyn's Labour, Remain & YES.....
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    edited July 2017
    I'm sure the Remainers "Senior Tory" (occassionally plural) who has been feeding Tim Shipman 'lines to take' will be out in force when May's replacement election finally comes around.....of course, we may have already left by then.....
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 52,731
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/picture/2017/jul/17/ben-jennings-on-round-two-of-brexit-talks-cartoon
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    IanB2 said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/picture/2017/jul/17/ben-jennings-on-round-two-of-brexit-talks-cartoon

    Interesting/childish 'ambush' yesterday with British team shown into room where Barnier et al had documents in front of them for 'photo op'......

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/17/brexit-talks-uk-underprepared-david-davis-michel-barnier-eu
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    Britain’s election watchdog last night raised “troubling” concerns that some younger voters may have cast more than one ballot at the general election.

    The Electoral Commission said that 38 MPs had highlighted instances where voters, including students, had claimed to have voted twice, which is a criminal offence. It said that individual electoral registers run by councils should be better joined up to help identify duplicate entries.

    The commission also suggested that in future, those registered to vote in two seats should have to choose in advance which one they would vote in.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/election-reforms-urged-after-students-say-they-voted-twice-dch22qttx?CMP=Sprkr-_-Editorial-_-thetimes-_-News-_-Imageandlink-_-Statement-_-Unspecified-_-TWITTER&linkId=39875380
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    CarlottaVance said:

    IanB2 said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/picture/2017/jul/17/ben-jennings-on-round-two-of-brexit-talks-cartoon

    Interesting/childish 'ambush' yesterday with British team shown into room where Barnier et al had documents in front of them for 'photo op'......

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/17/brexit-talks-uk-underprepared-david-davis-michel-barnier-eu
    Good Morning, Carlotta ! Bit early for conspiracy theories.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Wasn't Shami Chakravarti and David Davis friends ?
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    surbiton said:

    Wasn't Shami Chakravarti and David Davis friends ?

    Oh dear. I thought you were the grammer policeman... Weren't... there were two of them.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    SquareRoot said:

    surbiton said:

    Wasn't Shami Chakravarti and David Davis friends ?

    Oh dear. I thought you were the grammer policeman... Weren't... there were two of them.
    Too early ! I meant to write something different.
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    This "remember when" by-election which was "soon forgotten" is clearly memorable 11 years later.

    Another uneducating and unrevealing thread to ignore in preparation for a tedious day of incoming Scott'n'Paste comments. *sigh*
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,186
    To be honest, I felt very similar to David Davis about the (steady) erosion of British civil liberties by 2008 - see his summary at c. 2:06-3:16. This was very topical at the time.

    However, I don't know if I would have resigned to fight a by-election. I probably would have up'ed the ante in the shadow cabinet, and fought even harder to get a Conservative Government elected.

    I can only presume he felt his pleas internally were falling on deaf ears with Cameron/Osborne, and his ego was bruised by being outside the inner circle, so acted impulsively over it.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    surbiton said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    IanB2 said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/picture/2017/jul/17/ben-jennings-on-round-two-of-brexit-talks-cartoon

    Interesting/childish 'ambush' yesterday with British team shown into room where Barnier et al had documents in front of them for 'photo op'......

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/17/brexit-talks-uk-underprepared-david-davis-michel-barnier-eu
    Good Morning, Carlotta ! Bit early for conspiracy theories.
    Good morning Surbiton.....The 'conspiracy' was in yesterday's Grauniad......but if it keeps Barnier happy to think he got 'one over on the British' so be it - Dunkirk is getting rave reviews, by the way.....
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,186
    GeoffM said:

    This "remember when" by-election which was "soon forgotten" is clearly memorable 11 years later.

    Another uneducating and unrevealing thread to ignore in preparation for a tedious day of incoming Scott'n'Paste comments. *sigh*

    I'll get my paste in first:

    https://twitter.com/FraserNelson/status/887034019858305032
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,583
    Casino_Royale said:

    GeoffM said:

    This "remember when" by-election which was "soon forgotten" is clearly memorable 11 years later.

    Another uneducating and unrevealing thread to ignore in preparation for a tedious day of incoming Scott'n'Paste comments. *sigh*

    I'll get my paste in first:

    https://twitter.com/FraserNelson/status/887034019858305032
    Dear God, When ARE serious negotiations going to start!
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,942
    IanB2 said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/picture/2017/jul/17/ben-jennings-on-round-two-of-brexit-talks-cartoon

    Well done Jennings. Excellent!
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,942
    Casino_Royale said:

    GeoffM said:

    This "remember when" by-election which was "soon forgotten" is clearly memorable 11 years later.

    Another uneducating and unrevealing thread to ignore in preparation for a tedious day of incoming Scott'n'Paste comments. *sigh*

    I'll get my paste in first:

    https://twitter.com/FraserNelson/status/887034019858305032
    PATHETIC
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    OldKingCole said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    GeoffM said:

    This "remember when" by-election which was "soon forgotten" is clearly memorable 11 years later.

    Another uneducating and unrevealing thread to ignore in preparation for a tedious day of incoming Scott'n'Paste comments. *sigh*

    I'll get my paste in first:

    https://twitter.com/FraserNelson/status/887034019858305032
    Dear God, When ARE serious negotiations going to start!
    Davis, who came with a negotiating team of 98 people, started the day with a joint appearance with Barnier in the Berlaymont building, the EU’s headquarters....

    ......Barnier, whose negotiating team is half the size of the UK’s, said he would be in contact with Davis throughout the week and the two would have “a rendezvous” on Thursday to take stock.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/17/david-davis-leaves-brussels-after-less-than-one-hour-of-brexit-talks
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    CarlottaVance said:

    IanB2 said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/picture/2017/jul/17/ben-jennings-on-round-two-of-brexit-talks-cartoon

    Interesting/childish 'ambush' yesterday with British team shown into room where Barnier et al had documents in front of them for 'photo op'......

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/17/brexit-talks-uk-underprepared-david-davis-michel-barnier-eu
    If David Davis, who has been around a bit, or his team thought it was an ambush, they could have waited for their own prop papers to arrive.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,583
    CarlottaVance said:

    OldKingCole said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    GeoffM said:

    This "remember when" by-election which was "soon forgotten" is clearly memorable 11 years later.

    Another uneducating and unrevealing thread to ignore in preparation for a tedious day of incoming Scott'n'Paste comments. *sigh*

    I'll get my paste in first:

    https://twitter.com/FraserNelson/status/887034019858305032
    Dear God, When ARE serious negotiations going to start!
    Davis, who came with a negotiating team of 98 people, started the day with a joint appearance with Barnier in the Berlaymont building, the EU’s headquarters....

    ......Barnier, whose negotiating team is half the size of the UK’s, said he would be in contact with Davis throughout the week and the two would have “a rendezvous” on Thursday to take stock.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/17/david-davis-leaves-brussels-after-less-than-one-hour-of-brexit-talks
    Fair point Ms Vance. It just looks bad, but to be fair, what else would Davis have done? Hang about for an hour or two until an official came out of the meeting for a wee break and said something like ‘they say the Irish are insisting on the customs point being in Belfast?'
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,848
    CarlottaVance said:

    IanB2 said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/picture/2017/jul/17/ben-jennings-on-round-two-of-brexit-talks-cartoon

    Interesting/childish 'ambush' yesterday with British team shown into room where Barnier et al had documents in front of them for 'photo op'......

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/17/brexit-talks-uk-underprepared-david-davis-michel-barnier-eu
    EU boys are just too smart for the Tory donkeys. Running rings round them. I would not let that lot run a bath.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,848
    surbiton said:

    Wasn't Shami Chakravarti and David Davis friends ?

    Sounds about right Surbiton, a pair of no users.
  • MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,909
    CarlottaVance said:

    Britain’s election watchdog last night raised “troubling” concerns that some younger voters may have cast more than one ballot at the general election.

    The Electoral Commission said that 38 MPs had highlighted instances where voters, including students, had claimed to have voted twice, which is a criminal offence. It said that individual electoral registers run by councils should be better joined up to help identify duplicate entries.

    The commission also suggested that in future, those registered to vote in two seats should have to choose in advance which one they would vote in.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/election-reforms-urged-after-students-say-they-voted-twice-dch22qttx?CMP=Sprkr-_-Editorial-_-thetimes-_-News-_-Imageandlink-_-Statement-_-Unspecified-_-TWITTER&linkId=39875380

    I've always been concerned about people with two homes, not just students. It should be illegal to be on more than one register.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,054
    malcolmg said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    IanB2 said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/picture/2017/jul/17/ben-jennings-on-round-two-of-brexit-talks-cartoon

    Interesting/childish 'ambush' yesterday with British team shown into room where Barnier et al had documents in front of them for 'photo op'......

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/17/brexit-talks-uk-underprepared-david-davis-michel-barnier-eu
    EU boys are just too smart for the Tory donkeys. Running rings round them. I would not let that lot run a bath.

    The Tories are not interested in negotiating the best Brexit deal for Britain. They are all focused on what really matters - the future of the Conservative party and their chances of leading it. If they had put half as much effort into preparing for our EU departure as they are putting into stabbing each other in the back we would be in a much better position than the one we find ourselves in.

  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,107
    David Davis is an idiot. Not much more to say really.

    I guess to some he is a useful idiot.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,054
    The problem with removing the donkeys from the cabinet is that Philip Hammond can't do all the jobs himself.
    https://twitter.com/MattChorley/status/887198426777214976
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,816
    Jonathan said:

    David Davis is an idiot. Not much more to say really.

    I guess to some he is a useful idiot.

    C'mon, he was once Head of European Photocopier Procurement at Tate & Lyle.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,054
    Jonathan said:

    David Davis is an idiot. Not much more to say really.

    I guess to some he is a useful idiot.

    Rather than what he was saying and doing nine years ago, it's probably more instructive to read what he was saying last year about all the trade deals the UK was going to have set up by the time we left the EU. They reveal someone who lacks even basic knowledge of how things work.

  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,630
    edited July 2017
    SquareRoot said:

    surbiton said:

    Wasn't Shami Chakravarti and David Davis friends ?

    Oh dear. I thought you were the grammer policeman... Weren't... there were two of them.
    grammar :smile:
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,583
    Monksfield said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Britain’s election watchdog last night raised “troubling” concerns that some younger voters may have cast more than one ballot at the general election.

    The Electoral Commission said that 38 MPs had highlighted instances where voters, including students, had claimed to have voted twice, which is a criminal offence. It said that individual electoral registers run by councils should be better joined up to help identify duplicate entries.

    The commission also suggested that in future, those registered to vote in two seats should have to choose in advance which one they would vote in.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/election-reforms-urged-after-students-say-they-voted-twice-dch22qttx?CMP=Sprkr-_-Editorial-_-thetimes-_-News-_-Imageandlink-_-Statement-_-Unspecified-_-TWITTER&linkId=39875380

    I've always been concerned about people with two homes, not just students. It should be illegal to be on more than one register.
    I seem to recall the Tories, some years ago, asking those of their supporters with two homes toi register in both and decide on the day where to vote.

    Agree, it ought to be stopped.
  • HarryHayfieldHarryHayfield Posts: 55
    I could tell at once it was a publicity seeking exercise, so much so that I suggested to a person I knew from the constituency that they stand as an Independent (Natural Bodybuilder) candidate knowing that the media would be forced to report on it in a neutral context, however they did not take up the chance.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,942
    Dura_Ace said:

    Jonathan said:

    David Davis is an idiot. Not much more to say really.

    I guess to some he is a useful idiot.

    C'mon, he was once Head of European Photocopier Procurement at Tate & Lyle.
    How sweet....
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,630
    Maybe MPs who call a vanity by-election in which they are re-standing for the same party should be asked to pay the local council's incurred costs, which must be not inconsiderable?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,720
    Casino_Royale said:

    GeoffM said:

    This "remember when" by-election which was "soon forgotten" is clearly memorable 11 years later.

    Another uneducating and unrevealing thread to ignore in preparation for a tedious day of incoming Scott'n'Paste comments. *sigh*

    I'll get my paste in first:

    https://twitter.com/FraserNelson/status/887034019858305032
    Always Be Prepared.
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,451
    https://twitter.com/kerpen/status/887119454949257216
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,866
    Good morning, everyone.

    I agree with this sentiment (this was attention-seeking daftness) but I wonder if it's too much ancient history.

    One recalls the PLP putting a much worse man with a much worse history on their shortlist.
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,451
    edited July 2017
    OldKingCole said:

    Monksfield said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Britain’s election watchdog last night raised “troubling” concerns that some younger voters may have cast more than one ballot at the general election.

    The Electoral Commission said that 38 MPs had highlighted instances where voters, including students, had claimed to have voted twice, which is a criminal offence. It said that individual electoral registers run by councils should be better joined up to help identify duplicate entries.

    The commission also suggested that in future, those registered to vote in two seats should have to choose in advance which one they would vote in.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/election-reforms-urged-after-students-say-they-voted-twice-dch22qttx?CMP=Sprkr-_-Editorial-_-thetimes-_-News-_-Imageandlink-_-Statement-_-Unspecified-_-TWITTER&linkId=39875380

    I've always been concerned about people with two homes, not just students. It should be illegal to be on more than one register.
    I seem to recall the Tories, some years ago, asking those of their supporters with two homes toi register in both and decide on the day where to vote.

    Agree, it ought to be stopped.
    The problem is tha the electoral register updates are usually only done once a year. It's unreasonable to expect someone with 2 addresses to predict months in advance where they will be on the date of an election, especially in the case of an unexpected one like GE2017
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,630
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    I agree with this sentiment (this was attention-seeking daftness) but I wonder if it's too much ancient history.

    One recalls the PLP putting a much worse man with a much worse history on their shortlist.

    He turned out to be a much better campaigner though!

    Agree though that this is ancient history and not likely to be relevant in any forthcoming Tory leadership election (which is not happening any time soon anyway!).
  • archer101auarcher101au Posts: 1,612
    edited July 2017
    Actually Davis is doing a great job in handling the EU. He is refusing their invitation to put up endless position papers because he does not want to create pointless areas of public conflict. He knows that both they and he will have to climb down, so he is refusing to make too many positions public. The EU, on the other hand, brief the media every five seconds and therefore are backing themselves into a corner.

    Remainers like to say that this is not a problem because the EU can dictate terms. You are about to find out that the EU has miscalculated. The UK are completely in the legal right on the Brexit Bill and the EU are wrong. Davis is going to easily be able to call their bluff by playing it cool and then, when it all breaks down, offering to refer the whole matter to an ICJ panel for arbitration after the trade deal is done. The EU will have to refuse, as any legal arbitration will almost certainly find that the EU owes the UK, not the other way around. The EU will look ridiculous as nobody is actually going to think we should pay money for which there is no legal basis unless there is a trade deal agreed at the same time.

    No need for a pile of position papers. Just crafty negotiation strategy is all that is needed.
    Jonathan said:

    David Davis is an idiot. Not much more to say really.

    I guess to some he is a useful idiot.

  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,107
    Where have all the serious politicians gone? Business? Professions? We're left with the useless egotist, the zealot or the political nerd in charge.

    Time to find the grown-ups. How do we do it?
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,054
    archer101au said:

    Actually Davis is doing a great job in handling the EU. He is refusing their invitation to put up endless position papers because he does not want to create pointless areas of public conflict. He knows that both they and he will have to climb down, so he is refusing to make too many positions public. The EU, on the other hand, brief the media every five seconds and therefore are backing themselves into a corner.

    Remainers like to say that this is not a problem because the EU can dictate terms. You are about to find out that the EU has miscalculated. The UK are completely in the legal right on the Brexit Bill and the EU are wrong. Davis is going to easily be able to call their bluff by playing it cool and then, when it all breaks down, offering to refer the whole matter to an ICJ panel for arbitration after the trade deal is done. The EU will have to refuse, as any legal arbitration will almost certainly find that the EU owes the UK, not the other way around. The EU will look ridiculous as nobody is actually going to think we should pay money for which there is no legal basis unless there is a trade deal agreed at the same time.

    No need for a pile of position papers. Just crafty negotiation strategy is all that is needed.


    Jonathan said:

    David Davis is an idiot. Not much more to say really.

    I guess to some he is a useful idiot.

    Can I interest you in some magic beans that have just come into my possession ...

  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    SouthamObserver said:

    Can I interest you in some magic beans that have just come into my possession ...

    I have a bridge for sale...
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,630
    not_on_fire said:

    OldKingCole said:

    Monksfield said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Britain’s election watchdog last night raised “troubling” concerns that some younger voters may have cast more than one ballot at the general election.

    The Electoral Commission said that 38 MPs had highlighted instances where voters, including students, had claimed to have voted twice, which is a criminal offence. It said that individual electoral registers run by councils should be better joined up to help identify duplicate entries.

    The commission also suggested that in future, those registered to vote in two seats should have to choose in advance which one they would vote in.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/election-reforms-urged-after-students-say-they-voted-twice-dch22qttx?CMP=Sprkr-_-Editorial-_-thetimes-_-News-_-Imageandlink-_-Statement-_-Unspecified-_-TWITTER&linkId=39875380

    I've always been concerned about people with two homes, not just students. It should be illegal to be on more than one register.
    I seem to recall the Tories, some years ago, asking those of their supporters with two homes toi register in both and decide on the day where to vote.

    Agree, it ought to be stopped.
    The problem is tha the electoral register updates are usually only done once a year. It's unreasonable to expect someone with 2 addresses to predict months in advance where they will be on the date of an election, especially in the case of an unexpected one like GE2017
    Sounds like a first world problem tbh. Multi-home owners could always postal vote if it's inconvenient to travel to their main residence. They already have an unfair advantage of being able to choose whichever of their addresses sits in the constituency most advantageous (e.g. marginal) to their political preferences.
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,451
    SouthamObserver said:

    archer101au said:

    Actually Davis is doing a great job in handling the EU. He is refusing their invitation to put up endless position papers because he does not want to create pointless areas of public conflict. He knows that both they and he will have to climb down, so he is refusing to make too many positions public. The EU, on the other hand, brief the media every five seconds and therefore are backing themselves into a corner.

    Remainers like to say that this is not a problem because the EU can dictate terms. You are about to find out that the EU has miscalculated. The UK are completely in the legal right on the Brexit Bill and the EU are wrong. Davis is going to easily be able to call their bluff by playing it cool and then, when it all breaks down, offering to refer the whole matter to an ICJ panel for arbitration after the trade deal is done. The EU will have to refuse, as any legal arbitration will almost certainly find that the EU owes the UK, not the other way around. The EU will look ridiculous as nobody is actually going to think we should pay money for which there is no legal basis unless there is a trade deal agreed at the same time.

    No need for a pile of position papers. Just crafty negotiation strategy is all that is needed.


    Jonathan said:

    David Davis is an idiot. Not much more to say really.

    I guess to some he is a useful idiot.

    Can I interest you in some magic beans that have just come into my possession ...

    David Davis: the "near perfect" Brexit Secretary, as Richard Nabavi would say
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,630
    archer101au said:

    Actually Davis is doing a great job in handling the EU. He is refusing their invitation to put up endless position papers because he does not want to create pointless areas of public conflict. He knows that both they and he will have to climb down, so he is refusing to make too many positions public. The EU, on the other hand, brief the media every five seconds and therefore are backing themselves into a corner.

    Remainers like to say that this is not a problem because the EU can dictate terms. You are about to find out that the EU has miscalculated. The UK are completely in the legal right on the Brexit Bill and the EU are wrong. Davis is going to easily be able to call their bluff by playing it cool and then, when it all breaks down, offering to refer the whole matter to an ICJ panel for arbitration after the trade deal is done. The EU will have to refuse, as any legal arbitration will almost certainly find that the EU owes the UK, not the other way around. The EU will look ridiculous as nobody is actually going to think we should pay money for which there is no legal basis unless there is a trade deal agreed at the same time.

    No need for a pile of position papers. Just crafty negotiation strategy is all that is needed.

    Dream on!
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,630
    edited July 2017
    SouthamObserver said:

    archer101au said:

    Actually Davis is doing a great job in handling the EU. He is refusing their invitation to put up endless position papers because he does not want to create pointless areas of public conflict. He knows that both they and he will have to climb down, so he is refusing to make too many positions public. The EU, on the other hand, brief the media every five seconds and therefore are backing themselves into a corner.

    Remainers like to say that this is not a problem because the EU can dictate terms. You are about to find out that the EU has miscalculated. The UK are completely in the legal right on the Brexit Bill and the EU are wrong. Davis is going to easily be able to call their bluff by playing it cool and then, when it all breaks down, offering to refer the whole matter to an ICJ panel for arbitration after the trade deal is done. The EU will have to refuse, as any legal arbitration will almost certainly find that the EU owes the UK, not the other way around. The EU will look ridiculous as nobody is actually going to think we should pay money for which there is no legal basis unless there is a trade deal agreed at the same time.

    No need for a pile of position papers. Just crafty negotiation strategy is all that is needed.


    Jonathan said:

    David Davis is an idiot. Not much more to say really.

    I guess to some he is a useful idiot.

    Can I interest you in some magic beans that have just come into my possession ...

    Do they grow into magic money trees? If so, Amber is apparently in need of one.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,107
    There's some serious quality satire on here. Archer101au is one of the driest posters I've read in a while. Brilliant stuff.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,388
    One problem some of the noisier Remain voters have is they are looking like cheer-leaders for the EU. Every statement by Juncker or Barnier is greeted with swooning acclamation.

    Barnier picks his nose ... a diplomatic masterstroke!
    Juncker staggers into a press conference ... the man's a genius!

    The British are rubbish, the Europeans are brilliant. It's a reflex reaction now and looking sillier by the minute.

    £100 billion? We should pay it and more, and send them an annual tribute for putting up with us for so long.

    We should all dress in clown costumes until we beg forgiveness from those paragons of virtue.

    Come on, lads (and laddesses), it's getting embarrassing.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Good morning all. Not sure if this got covered yesterday but I was somewhat surprised to hear Dermot Murnaghan start a news story on Sky after Greenings announcement with 'the government has dipped into it's magic money tree'
    Now whilst I have no love for this government and wish them Cromwelled (in the non insurrectionist sense of the word!) I was a bit taken aback at that as balanced reporting.
    I guess it's very much open season.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    Brexit could be poised to tear Labour apart after a poll showed that more than 80 per cent of party members oppose Jeremy Corbyn’s plan to take the UK out of the European single market.

    Almost 70 per cent of members polled said they thought Britain should definitely stay in the trade bloc while a further fifth of members answered “more yes than no” to the question and just four per cent backed leaving the arrangement entirely.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/18/brexit-poised-rip-labour-apart-majority-party-members-opposed
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,492
    David Davis is thick as mince and a preening egotist.

    That's all you need to know.
  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800
    archer101au said:

    Actually Davis is doing a great job in handling the EU. He is refusing their invitation to put up endless position papers because he does not want to create pointless areas of public conflict. He knows that both they and he will have to climb down, so he is refusing to make too many positions public. The EU, on the other hand, brief the media every five seconds and therefore are backing themselves into a corner.

    Remainers like to say that this is not a problem because the EU can dictate terms. You are about to find out that the EU has miscalculated. The UK are completely in the legal right on the Brexit Bill and the EU are wrong. Davis is going to easily be able to call their bluff by playing it cool and then, when it all breaks down, offering to refer the whole matter to an ICJ panel for arbitration after the trade deal is done. The EU will have to refuse, as any legal arbitration will almost certainly find that the EU owes the UK, not the other way around. The EU will look ridiculous as nobody is actually going to think we should pay money for which there is no legal basis unless there is a trade deal agreed at the same time.

    No need for a pile of position papers. Just crafty negotiation strategy is all that is needed.


    Exactly right.

    It makes me laugh when desperate remainers post how rubbish we are, how brilliant the EU negotiating team is, when in truth none of us have a single clue as to how it is going.



  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,630
    Jonathan said:

    Where have all the serious politicians gone? Business? Professions? We're left with the useless egotist, the zealot or the political nerd in charge.

    Time to find the grown-ups. How do we do it?

    The problem is, senior politicians walk off into the sunset at the first serious setback these days e.g. Blair, Brown, Cameron, Osborne...

    If any of these had stuck around as backbench MPs they could be serious PM prospects again, a la Gladstone and Disraeli.
  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800
    CD13 said:

    One problem some of the noisier Remain voters have is they are looking like cheer-leaders for the EU. Every statement by Juncker or Barnier is greeted with swooning acclamation.

    Barnier picks his nose ... a diplomatic masterstroke!
    Juncker staggers into a press conference ... the man's a genius!

    The British are rubbish, the Europeans are brilliant. It's a reflex reaction now and looking sillier by the minute.

    £100 billion? We should pay it and more, and send them an annual tribute for putting up with us for so long.

    We should all dress in clown costumes until we beg forgiveness from those paragons of virtue.

    Come on, lads (and laddesses), it's getting embarrassing.

    They completely lack any self awareness, as you rightly say they have become embarrassing
  • MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,909
    edited July 2017
    not_on_fire said:

    OldKingCole said:

    Monksfield said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Britain’s election watchdog last night raised “troubling” concerns that some younger voters may have cast more than one ballot at the general election.

    The Electoral Commission said that 38 MPs had highlighted instances where voters, including students, had claimed to have voted twice, which is a criminal offence. It said that individual electoral registers run by councils should be better joined up to help identify duplicate entries.

    The commission also suggested that in future, those registered to vote in two seats should have to choose in advance which one they would vote in.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/election-reforms-urged-after-students-say-they-voted-twice-dch22qttx?CMP=Sprkr-_-Editorial-_-thetimes-_-News-_-Imageandlink-_-Statement-_-Unspecified-_-TWITTER&linkId=39875380

    I've always been concerned about people with two homes, not just students. It should be illegal to be on more than one register.
    I seem to recall the Tories, some years ago, asking those of their supporters with two homes toi register in both and decide on the day where to vote.

    Agree, it ought to be stopped.
    The problem is tha the electoral register updates are usually only done once a year. It's unreasonable to expect someone with 2 addresses to predict months in advance where they will be on the date of an election, especially in the case of an unexpected one like GE2017
    We have postal voting don't we?
  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    David Davis is thick as mince and a preening egotist.

    That's all you need to know.

    Most politicians are the latter, particularly your nasty little hero Osborne.

    As for being thick as mince, how would you know?
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    CarlottaVance said:

    Brexit could be poised to tear Labour apart after a poll showed that more than 80 per cent of party members oppose Jeremy Corbyn’s plan to take the UK out of the European single market.

    Almost 70 per cent of members polled said they thought Britain should definitely stay in the trade bloc while a further fifth of members answered “more yes than no” to the question and just four per cent backed leaving the arrangement entirely.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/18/brexit-poised-rip-labour-apart-majority-party-members-opposed

    I don't get that impression at all, Labour can comfortably ride both horses at once. That is the advantage of opposition.

    The open warfare in the cabinet is a different story though. One faction or the other has to go to the backbenches, but May is too useless and too weak to oversee that.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,767
    CarlottaVance said:

    Brexit could be poised to tear Labour apart after a poll showed that more than 80 per cent of party members oppose Jeremy Corbyn’s plan to take the UK out of the European single market.

    Almost 70 per cent of members polled said they thought Britain should definitely stay in the trade bloc while a further fifth of members answered “more yes than no” to the question and just four per cent backed leaving the arrangement entirely.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/18/brexit-poised-rip-labour-apart-majority-party-members-opposed

    It's a dog that won't really bark. I know plenty of party members, including myself, who want Brexit as limited as possible and would much prefer none at all. I don't know any who regard it as an issue to reignite the internal wars, and rather a lot who feel the electorate have made a mistake but we have to go along with it unless the public mood totally changes.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,630
    foxinsoxuk said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Brexit could be poised to tear Labour apart after a poll showed that more than 80 per cent of party members oppose Jeremy Corbyn’s plan to take the UK out of the European single market.

    Almost 70 per cent of members polled said they thought Britain should definitely stay in the trade bloc while a further fifth of members answered “more yes than no” to the question and just four per cent backed leaving the arrangement entirely.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/18/brexit-poised-rip-labour-apart-majority-party-members-opposed

    I don't get that impression at all, Labour can comfortably ride both horses at once. That is the advantage of opposition.

    The open warfare in the cabinet is a different story though. One faction or the other has to go to the backbenches, but May is too useless and too weak to oversee that.
    Agreed. This is just more wishful thinking from the Torygraph
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    CD13 said:

    One problem some of the noisier Remain voters have is they are looking like cheer-leaders for the EU. Every statement by Juncker or Barnier is greeted with swooning acclamation.

    Barnier picks his nose ... a diplomatic masterstroke!
    Juncker staggers into a press conference ... the man's a genius!

    The British are rubbish, the Europeans are brilliant. It's a reflex reaction now and looking sillier by the minute.

    £100 billion? We should pay it and more, and send them an annual tribute for putting up with us for so long.

    We should all dress in clown costumes until we beg forgiveness from those paragons of virtue.

    Come on, lads (and laddesses), it's getting embarrassing.

    That's very much the way of the TV news channels right now. They are in full establishment protection mode with the EU representing the establishment and Brexit Britain the insurgency. From that starting point nothing Brexit, taken as an entity, does will be reasonable.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,492
    nigel4england said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    David Davis is thick as mince and a preening egotist.

    That's all you need to know.

    Most politicians are the latter, particularly your nasty little hero Osborne.

    As for being thick as mince, how would you know?
    1) Because in my day job I regularly have to deal with DExEU, it is what experience has taught me.

    2) Dominic Cummings agrees with me.
  • MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,909
    dyedwoolie said:

    Good morning all. Not sure if this got covered yesterday but I was somewhat surprised to hear Dermot Murnaghan start a news story on Sky after Greenings announcement with 'the government has dipped into it's magic money tree'
    Now whilst I have no love for this government and wish them Cromwelled (in the non insurrectionist sense of the word!) I was a bit taken aback at that as balanced reporting.
    I guess it's very much open season.

    Given it's out of an existing budget it's hardly MMT. It's either a bullshit recycled announcement or another budget somewhere else in the DEd portfolio has taken a whacking great cut.
  • MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,909
    Jonathan said:

    There's some serious quality satire on here. Archer101au is one of the driest posters I've read in a while. Brilliant stuff.

    If he's posting from Oz he can afford to be deluded or dry, whichever.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,942
    OT. I hope this isn't in bad taste but I heard it on the radio and it made me laugh "We're just so blessed to have so many brilliant double leg amputees"
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,866
    Mr. Woolie, if you want balanced reporting (particularly on the EU) Sky is not the place for you.

    Hard to think of a neutral source, to be honest. An individual, rather than a network, is the only one who springs to mind (Andrew Neil). And it sounds like he's been tipped overboard.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    NickPalmer said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Brexit could be poised to tear Labour apart after a poll showed that more than 80 per cent of party members oppose Jeremy Corbyn’s plan to take the UK out of the European single market.

    Almost 70 per cent of members polled said they thought Britain should definitely stay in the trade bloc while a further fifth of members answered “more yes than no” to the question and just four per cent backed leaving the arrangement entirely.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/18/brexit-poised-rip-labour-apart-majority-party-members-opposed

    It's a dog that won't really bark. I know plenty of party members, including myself, who want Brexit as limited as possible and would much prefer none at all. I don't know any who regard it as an issue to reignite the internal wars, and rather a lot who feel the electorate have made a mistake but we have to go along with it unless the public mood totally changes.
    Thank you Nick for genuinely throwing 'dont like it but have to go along with it' into a debate about the EU. Peter O'Hanrahahanrahan lives! You've made my day :)
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    https://twitter.com/BrendanChilton/status/887206981840359424
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,388
    Mr Roger,

    One of the TV announcers yesterday gave a link like this. "And now it's over to the paralytic Olympics."

  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Roger said:

    OT. I hope this isn't in bad taste but I heard it on the radio and it made me laugh "We're just so blessed to have so many brilliant double leg amputees"

    Its what we get by sending fit, competitive young men to warzones.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,577
    NickPalmer said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Brexit could be poised to tear Labour apart after a poll showed that more than 80 per cent of party members oppose Jeremy Corbyn’s plan to take the UK out of the European single market.

    Almost 70 per cent of members polled said they thought Britain should definitely stay in the trade bloc while a further fifth of members answered “more yes than no” to the question and just four per cent backed leaving the arrangement entirely.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/18/brexit-poised-rip-labour-apart-majority-party-members-opposed

    It's a dog that won't really bark. I know plenty of party members, including myself, who want Brexit as limited as possible and would much prefer none at all. I don't know any who regard it as an issue to reignite the internal wars, and rather a lot who feel the electorate have made a mistake but we have to go along with it unless the public mood totally changes.
    I would say it is rather early in the day to say that the Labour EU dog won't stir from his slumbers and bark.

    Who the feck knows where we will be in two years and what sort of nonsense deal Davis has cobbled together?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 52,731
    not_on_fire said:

    OldKingCole said:

    Monksfield said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Britain’s election watchdog last night raised “troubling” concerns that some younger voters may have cast more than one ballot at the general election.

    The Electoral Commission said that 38 MPs had highlighted instances where voters, including students, had claimed to have voted twice, which is a criminal offence. It said that individual electoral registers run by councils should be better joined up to help identify duplicate entries.

    The commission also suggested that in future, those registered to vote in two seats should have to choose in advance which one they would vote in.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/election-reforms-urged-after-students-say-they-voted-twice-dch22qttx?CMP=Sprkr-_-Editorial-_-thetimes-_-News-_-Imageandlink-_-Statement-_-Unspecified-_-TWITTER&linkId=39875380

    I've always been concerned about people with two homes, not just students. It should be illegal to be on more than one register.
    I seem to recall the Tories, some years ago, asking those of their supporters with two homes toi register in both and decide on the day where to vote.

    Agree, it ought to be stopped.
    The problem is tha the electoral register updates are usually only done once a year. It's unreasonable to expect someone with 2 addresses to predict months in advance where they will be on the date of an election, especially in the case of an unexpected one like GE2017
    I think you and the OP are a little behind the times. Registers are updated every month, nowadays, and the criteria for registering multiple times are tighter than they used to be - owning another property isn't sufficient; it has to be a regularly used home. So the days of landlords registering at their properties should be over.

    That said, checks are only really being made for new registrations. Now registration is tied to NI number it is possible to investigate multiple registrations, for the first time.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. Woolie, if you want balanced reporting (particularly on the EU) Sky is not the place for you.

    Hard to think of a neutral source, to be honest. An individual, rather than a network, is the only one who springs to mind (Andrew Neil). And it sounds like he's been tipped overboard.

    Oh I know indeed, it was just rather more bluntly piss taking than even Sky usually is. It's not like it was put to anyone with right of reply it was delivered as factual news. It doesn't help the debate is my main concern, especially as by the back door it both demonizes and pre judges any spending as irresponsible. The canonization of fiscal restraint.
  • archer101auarcher101au Posts: 1,612
    Satire as an alternative to reasoned argument? It is easy to see that Remainers just make statements of opinion, dressed up as fact, rather than engage in the issues.

    Are you actually aware of the legal position with respect of the Brexit Bill? What do you actually think will happen if Davis offers to refer this to the ICJ conditional on an overall trade deal? How will the EU appear if they refuse?

    But hey, much easier just to insult Davis and glorify Barnier....
    Jonathan said:

    There's some serious quality satire on here. Archer101au is one of the driest posters I've read in a while. Brilliant stuff.

  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,583
    Roger said:

    OT. I hope this isn't in bad taste but I heard it on the radio and it made me laugh "We're just so blessed to have so many brilliant double leg amputees"

    One for Colemanballs i think!
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,388
    Dr P,

    Good to hear you're supporting loyalty to the party leader. Jezza wouldn't approve of rebels.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,583
    Monksfield said:

    dyedwoolie said:

    Good morning all. Not sure if this got covered yesterday but I was somewhat surprised to hear Dermot Murnaghan start a news story on Sky after Greenings announcement with 'the government has dipped into it's magic money tree'
    Now whilst I have no love for this government and wish them Cromwelled (in the non insurrectionist sense of the word!) I was a bit taken aback at that as balanced reporting.
    I guess it's very much open season.

    Given it's out of an existing budget it's hardly MMT. It's either a bullshit recycled announcement or another budget somewhere else in the DEd portfolio has taken a whacking great cut.
    From the BBC “Newspaper Headline page: (in the )Daily Telegraph, Michael Deacon asks what on earth the Department for Education had been doing that it could now save £1.3bn through "efficiencies".
    "A gold plated departmental water cooler?" he wonders, or "printers with ink made from unicorns' blood?".
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,577
    Completely off topic, but I ended up watching the final 45 minutes or so of the HS2 statement late last night (I had missed start of the day's real TV i.e. Gore of Thrones and would need to do catchup later in week).

    Rather to my surprise I thought Grayling handled it all rather well.

  • eekeek Posts: 31,053
    Benpointer said:

    Jonathan said:

    Where have all the serious politicians gone? Business? Professions? We're left with the useless egotist, the zealot or the political nerd in charge.

    Time to find the grown-ups. How do we do it?

    The problem is, senior politicians walk off into the sunset at the first serious setback these days e.g. Blair, Brown, Cameron, Osborne...

    If any of these had stuck around as backbench MPs they could be serious PM prospects again, a la Gladstone and Disraeli.
    The problem is that with 24 hour news and social media who in their right minds wants to be a Politican full stop.

    There are a lot of easier hassle and stress free ways to make the same money or more...
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,767
    edited July 2017
    CarlottaVance said:

    https://twitter.com/BrendanChilton/status/887206981840359424

    It corresponds to around 55% of Britain, and the membership fee is an issue at the bottom of the income scale, although I think it's also a problem that party membership for any party was seen as a declining middle-class hobby until the Corbyn surge.

    See https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2016/feb/26/uk-more-middle-class-than-working-class-2000-data for an analysis of the issue at a time when, unlike now, the ABC1 group was seen as the bastion of the Tories.

    On the EU, I agree wholeheartedly with Rottenborough that we don't really know where things will be politically in two years!
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,720
    Jonathan said:

    Where have all the serious politicians gone? Business? Professions? We're left with the useless egotist, the zealot or the political nerd in charge.

    Time to find the grown-ups. How do we do it?

    We get the politicians we deserve. We - the Great British Public - want issues brought down to the lowest common denominator. As an example: the Grenfell Tower disaster will almost certainly be a catalogue of failures in many areas, but this is being dumbed down until eventually there will be a token head to roll, whether deserved or not.

    Yet the issues are almost always more complex than that, and cannot easily be broken down into the soundbites the media want and the public appear to like.

    Add in the sh*t politicians get thrown at them by the media and the public - the former of which are scarce any better that the politicians they attack - and I fail to see why anyone would want to become a politicians nowadays, and I quite admire those who put themselves forward.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,943
    Morning PB Saboteurs,

    Has WilliamGlenns identity been revealed? ;)

    https://twitter.com/BBCNews/status/887048562755981313
  • nunuonenunuone Posts: 1,138
    I see free speech is getting ever rearer in Britain.

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/news.sky.com/story/amp/gender-stereotypes-to-be-banned-in-british-adverts-10952271

    Have they got nothing better to do?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    Here's Chuka.....

    https://twitter.com/ChukaUmunna/status/887214266599845888
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 52,731
    rottenborough said:

    Completely off topic, but I ended up watching the final 45 minutes or so of the HS2 statement late last night (I had missed start of the day's real TV i.e. Gore of Thrones and would need to do catchup later in week).

    Rather to my surprise I thought Grayling handled it all rather well.

    The statement lasted more than 45 ministers? You could be almost in Birmingham by then.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    GIN1138 said:

    Morning PB Saboteurs,

    Has WilliamGlenns identity been revealed? ;)

    https://twitter.com/BBCNews/status/887048562755981313

    I suggest the UK immediately impose sanctions and ensure no public services for UK citizens are diverted to the idiot. Then charge the ridiculous old goat his life savings to rejoin.
    Or, ya know, he could just stop being a twat.
    I hope he has negotiated his terms of membership with the EU.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 52,731
    CarlottaVance said:

    Here's Chuka.....

    https://twitter.com/ChukaUmunna/status/887214266599845888

    The party's official stance of "more no than yes" didn't feature in the survey?
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    rottenborough said:

    NickPalmer said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Brexit could be poised to tear Labour apart after a poll showed that more than 80 per cent of party members oppose Jeremy Corbyn’s plan to take the UK out of the European single market.

    Almost 70 per cent of members polled said they thought Britain should definitely stay in the trade bloc while a further fifth of members answered “more yes than no” to the question and just four per cent backed leaving the arrangement entirely.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/18/brexit-poised-rip-labour-apart-majority-party-members-opposed

    It's a dog that won't really bark. I know plenty of party members, including myself, who want Brexit as limited as possible and would much prefer none at all. I don't know any who regard it as an issue to reignite the internal wars, and rather a lot who feel the electorate have made a mistake but we have to go along with it unless the public mood totally changes.
    I would say it is rather early in the day to say that the Labour EU dog won't stir from his slumbers and bark.

    Who the feck knows where we will be in two years and what sort of nonsense deal Davis has cobbled together?
    Interesting yougov in the link from Lucas tweet below.

    It seems Britons are not as opposed fto FOM as Brexiteers think.

    https://twitter.com/CarolineLucas/status/886950065423736832
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,271
    archer101au said:

    Actually Davis is doing a great job in handling the EU. He is refusing their invitation to put up endless position papers because he does not want to create pointless areas of public conflict. He knows that both they and he will have to climb down, so he is refusing to make too many positions public. The EU, on the other hand, brief the media every five seconds and therefore are backing themselves into a corner.

    Remainers like to say that this is not a problem because the EU can dictate terms. You are about to find out that the EU has miscalculated. The UK are completely in the legal right on the Brexit Bill and the EU are wrong. Davis is going to easily be able to call their bluff by playing it cool and then, when it all breaks down, offering to refer the whole matter to an ICJ panel for arbitration after the trade deal is done. The EU will have to refuse, as any legal arbitration will almost certainly find that the EU owes the UK, not the other way around. The EU will look ridiculous as nobody is actually going to think we should pay money for which there is no legal basis unless there is a trade deal agreed at the same time.

    No need for a pile of position papers. Just crafty negotiation strategy is all that is needed.


    Jonathan said:

    David Davis is an idiot. Not much more to say really.

    I guess to some he is a useful idiot.

    I am pretty sure David Davis thinks he's a crafty negotiator. He clearly doesn't think there's a need for planning and position papers. He probably thinks the EU has miscalculated.

    I would say your post gets to the heart of the thinking at the Department for exiting the EU.
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    GIN1138 said:

    Morning PB Saboteurs,

    Has WilliamGlenns identity been revealed? ;)

    twitter.com/BBCNews/status/887048562755981313

    As he's declared himself outside of the law, does that mean we can freely invade his country, steal his stuff and burn his house down? Spoils of war?

    I'm all for a bit of pillaging but if he's an OAP the womenfolk of his new "country" probably aren't much to look at. I suspect we need photos of his daughters first before deciding whether to invade and occupy the place.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    edited July 2017
    Benpointer said:

    Jonathan said:

    Where have all the serious politicians gone? Business? Professions? We're left with the useless egotist, the zealot or the political nerd in charge.

    Time to find the grown-ups. How do we do it?

    The problem is, senior politicians walk off into the sunset at the first serious setback these days e.g. Blair, Brown, Cameron, Osborne...

    If any of these had stuck around as backbench MPs they could be serious PM prospects again, a la Gladstone and Disraeli.
    Yesterday I was reading Hansard for the debate on the unmasking of Anthony Blunt as the fourth man, in 1979. Mrs Thatcher was prime minister, of course, but there were three former PMs in the Commons: Edward Heath, Harold Wilson and Jim Callaghan. These days, they'd resign immediately and await the call from American banks.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,258
    NickPalmer said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Brexit could be poised to tear Labour apart after a poll showed that more than 80 per cent of party members oppose Jeremy Corbyn’s plan to take the UK out of the European single market.

    Almost 70 per cent of members polled said they thought Britain should definitely stay in the trade bloc while a further fifth of members answered “more yes than no” to the question and just four per cent backed leaving the arrangement entirely.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/18/brexit-poised-rip-labour-apart-majority-party-members-opposed

    It's a dog that won't really bark. I know plenty of party members, including myself, who want Brexit as limited as possible and would much prefer none at all. I don't know any who regard it as an issue to reignite the internal wars, and rather a lot who feel the electorate have made a mistake but we have to go along with it unless the public mood totally changes.
    Reassuring to see that Lab are (also) putting Party before country.

    Unsurprising but depressing behaviour from Jezza's so called new politics party.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,577
    IanB2 said:

    rottenborough said:

    Completely off topic, but I ended up watching the final 45 minutes or so of the HS2 statement late last night (I had missed start of the day's real TV i.e. Gore of Thrones and would need to do catchup later in week).

    Rather to my surprise I thought Grayling handled it all rather well.

    The statement lasted more than 45 ministers? You could be almost in Birmingham by then.
    No, I meant the questions afterwards. Mostly from MPs who had a direct issue as the line went through their constituency. A lot of it centred around the South Yorkshire area and the issue over Sheffield or Meadowhall. I don't know enough about the area to comment really, although from the outside it seems better to have the station in the centre of a major city than on the edge at a shopping centre.

    Whatever, it certainly got debate from likes of Ed Miliband and Yvette Cooper.
  • nunuonenunuone Posts: 1,138
    CarlottaVance said:

    https://twitter.com/BrendanChilton/status/887206981840359424

    Labour is a middle class party now.
  • MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,909
    NickPalmer said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    https://twitter.com/BrendanChilton/status/887206981840359424

    It corresponds to around 55% of Britain, and the membership fee is an issue at the bottom of the income scale, although I think it's also a problem that party membership for any party was seen as a declining middle-class hobby until the Corbyn surge.

    See https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2016/feb/26/uk-more-middle-class-than-working-class-2000-data for an analysis of the issue at a time when, unlike now, the ABC1 group was seen as the bastion of the Tories.

    On the EU, I agree wholeheartedly with Rottenborough that we don't really know where things will be politically in two years!
    If Labour's support is being drawn from educated people who might once have been expected to vote Tory, isn't that a problem for the Tories Carlotta?
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,271
    nunuone said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    https://twitter.com/BrendanChilton/status/887206981840359424

    Labour is a middle class party now.
    All parties are middle class.
  • nunuonenunuone Posts: 1,138
    foxinsoxuk said:

    rottenborough said:

    NickPalmer said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Brexit could be poised to tear Labour apart after a poll showed that more than 80 per cent of party members oppose Jeremy Corbyn’s plan to take the UK out of the European single market.

    Almost 70 per cent of members polled said they thought Britain should definitely stay in the trade bloc while a further fifth of members answered “more yes than no” to the question and just four per cent backed leaving the arrangement entirely.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/18/brexit-poised-rip-labour-apart-majority-party-members-opposed

    It's a dog that won't really bark. I know plenty of party members, including myself, who want Brexit as limited as possible and would much prefer none at all. I don't know any who regard it as an issue to reignite the internal wars, and rather a lot who feel the electorate have made a mistake but we have to go along with it unless the public mood totally changes.
    I would say it is rather early in the day to say that the Labour EU dog won't stir from his slumbers and bark.

    Who the feck knows where we will be in two years and what sort of nonsense deal Davis has cobbled together?
    Interesting yougov in the link from Lucas tweet below.

    It seems Britons are not as opposed fto FOM as Brexiteers think.

    https://twitter.com/CarolineLucas/status/886950065423736832
    People don't really think 69% want freedom of movement to continue as it does now do they?


    I think this is proof you can word any question to get the answer you want.
  • nunuonenunuone Posts: 1,138
    IanB2 said:

    rottenborough said:

    Completely off topic, but I ended up watching the final 45 minutes or so of the HS2 statement late last night (I had missed start of the day's real TV i.e. Gore of Thrones and would need to do catchup later in week).

    Rather to my surprise I thought Grayling handled it all rather well.

    The statement lasted more than 45 ministers? You could be almost in Birmingham by then.
    HS2 is going to be the biggest white elephant in history.
  • calumcalum Posts: 3,046
    Scotland's establishment on Brexit !

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-40640832
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    GeoffM said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Morning PB Saboteurs,

    Has WilliamGlenns identity been revealed? ;)

    twitter.com/BBCNews/status/887048562755981313

    As he's declared himself outside of the law, does that mean we can freely invade his country, steal his stuff and burn his house down? Spoils of war?

    I'm all for a bit of pillaging but if he's an OAP the womenfolk of his new "country" probably aren't much to look at. I suspect we need photos of his daughters first before deciding whether to invade and occupy the place.
    I'd suggest if we shell him it would beat the UK Zanzibar war as the shortest on record.
    We probably wouldn't need to resort to Trident unless he really kicks off.
  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    CarlottaVance said:

    IanB2 said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/picture/2017/jul/17/ben-jennings-on-round-two-of-brexit-talks-cartoon

    Interesting/childish 'ambush' yesterday with British team shown into room where Barnier et al had documents in front of them for 'photo op'......

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/17/brexit-talks-uk-underprepared-david-davis-michel-barnier-eu
    The interesting bit is that the commentators were dumb enough to fall for it.
This discussion has been closed.

© Vanilla Keystone Theme 2025