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SystemSystem Posts: 12,683
edited July 2017 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Some Tories are determined to retoxify the party

Theresa May suspends Tory MP who said leaving the EU without a deal was the 'real n—-r in the woodpile'https://t.co/GWmgrnw6kc

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  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    edited July 2017
    15:00
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    30:00
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    40:00
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Game Set And Match JackW
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 52,830
    Second
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,153
    JackW said:

    Game Set And Match JackW

    There's a word for playing with yourself....
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,216
    ‘Despite using the racist term, none of her fellow panelists, including Tory MPs Bill Cash and John Redwood, reacted.’

    Ah, I wondered when the Brexiteers would get the blame.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,271
    JackW said:

    Game Set And Match JackW

    No-one is playing with you. It's just a dream.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Djokovic still waiting to get on court ....
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Nigelb said:

    JackW said:

    Game Set And Match JackW

    There's a word for playing with yourself....
    Solitaire ....
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,153
    JackW said:

    Nigelb said:

    JackW said:

    Game Set And Match JackW

    There's a word for playing with yourself....
    Solitaire ....
    That's one way of describing it.
    :smile:

  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    Somebody clearly started the thread with four double faults in a row.
  • DadgeDadge Posts: 2,052
    FPT It's certain that a lot of Labour and anti-establishment voters voted Leave because the Remain campaign was headed by Cameron. (And Corbyn was largely absent.)

    So part of the reason that support for Brexit is falling now is that it's become a Tory project.

    All this irony is a stark reminder that political parties should never have anything to do with referendums.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    williamglenn said:

    Somebody clearly started the thread with four double faults in a row.

    Indeed. TSE failed to serve up his usual "first" thread ace ...
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,772
    JackW said:

    williamglenn said:

    Somebody clearly started the thread with four double faults in a row.

    Indeed. TSE failed to serve up his usual "first" thread ace ...
    I'm barred from being first during my stints as guest editor.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,216
    This is pretty kool:

    https://f1-start.glitch.me/
  • DadgeDadge Posts: 2,052
    I grew up in the 70s. Things were different then. There was a lot of prejudice. Unlearning it is an ongoing process for me and everyone from that era and older. I keep hearing that "age is no excuse" but of course it is. If this utterance is part of a pattern, then action should be taken. If not, an apology should suffice.
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    tlg86 said:

    This is pretty kool:

    https://f1-start.glitch.me/


    0.227

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,113
    Not only can Muller clarify the constitutional position of Brexit, turns out G Miller is a nifty tennis player too.
  • birdmanbirdman Posts: 3
    Storm in a teacup.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,216
    MarkHopkins said:

    tlg86 said:

    This is pretty kool:

    https://f1-start.glitch.me/


    0.227

    I got 0.212, but only by guessing. There's a lag on the mouse click too.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Nadal loses to Muller 15:13
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,153
    Wow.

    Muller outplays even JackW.
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    Dadge said:

    I grew up in the 70s. Things were different then. There was a lot of prejudice. Unlearning it is an ongoing process for me and everyone from that era and older. I keep hearing that "age is no excuse" but of course it is. If this utterance is part of a pattern, then action should be taken. If not, an apology should suffice.

    I, too, grew up in the 70s, and my parents were pretty racist by today's standards, if not those of the day, and were quite happy to use "lesser" racial epithets. But even they knew the n-word was not acceptable in any way.

  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,543
    edited July 2017
    Dadge said:

    I grew up in the 70s. Things were different then. There was a lot of prejudice. Unlearning it is an ongoing process for me and everyone from that era and older. I keep hearing that "age is no excuse" but of course it is. If this utterance is part of a pattern, then action should be taken. If not, an apology should suffice.

    I grew up in the '70's, but saying "Nigger" or "Paki" at my primary school in earshot of the teachers would have got you into trouble.

    Granted, I think this was more of a brain fart on Anne-Marie Morris' part than a deliberate racial slur.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,216
    Poor from Wimbledon. The Djokovic match should have moved to Centre Court.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,942
    birdman said:

    Storm in a teacup.

    Well yes exactly. Welcome to PB tho, assuming the post count is right.

    The fact that such expressions exist is though interesting. We have, I hope, come a long way since then.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Nigelb said:

    Wow.

    Muller outplays even JackW.

    :smiley:

    Murray's half of the draw opens up with Cilic the next highest seed at seven.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 28,257
    FPT re productivity.

    I wonder if Don Brind has any thoughts as to public sector productivity between 1997 and 2010 ?

    Here is the official ONS data:

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/economicoutputandproductivity/publicservicesproductivity/datasets/growthratesofoutputandproductivityfortotalpublicservicesexcludingqualityadjustmentforhealthcareandeducationtable3

    It shows that public sector productivity declined by 1.3% between 1997 and 2010 but if you removed the 'quality adjustment' aka exam grade inflation then public sector productivity fell by a shocking 8.3% during the Labour government.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,153
    another_richard said:

    FPT re productivity.

    I wonder if Don Brind has any thoughts as to public sector productivity between 1997 and 2010 ?

    Here is the official ONS data:

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/economicoutputandproductivity/publicservicesproductivity/datasets/growthratesofoutputandproductivityfortotalpublicservicesexcludingqualityadjustmentforhealthcareandeducationtable3

    It shows that public sector productivity declined by 1.3% between 1997 and 2010 but if you removed the 'quality adjustment' aka exam grade inflation then public sector productivity fell by a shocking 8.3% during the Labour government.

    But that was a Blairite (i.e. Tory) period...
    :smiley:

  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @mrjamesob: Any chance of being surprised if I look up which side Anne Marie Morris was on in the referendum?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,751
    FPT: In response to @RoyalBlue:-


    "1) I don't see how EU membership will result in the end of common law jurisdictions. Louisiana has maintained its civil law despite being alone in that regard within the US.

    2) We are quite capable of sabotaging common law principles ourselves. I refer to you to the suspension of habeas corpus in centuries past, or the rise of shadowy closed family courts and the reduction of types of cases tried by juries in our own times. I don't think either were compelled by the EU.

    3) Do I prefer the principles of common law to civil law? Yes. Do I think it so superior that we should arrogantly reject all civil law jurisdictions as being inherently degraded? Absolutely not. Common law is indeed one reason why 'Britain has largely avoided falling prey to tyranny and authoritarianism' but there are many others.

    4) Would I like to be charged in Italy? No. On a more likely example, I do like the fact that if I sell something to an Italian firm and they don't pay I can compel it with a European Order of Payment (EOP).

    Are you as outraged by the utterly one-sided provisions of the UKUSA extradition treaty? At least in the EU the member states are treated equally."


    1) Louisiana is irrelevant. Given the European push to integration I think the loss of the common law and, specifically, the principles of English criminal law is a very real risk.

    2) Agreed - but so what. Just because we have not always practised what we preached is no reason to agree to more of the practices we find unacceptable.

    3) I don't think that the criminal law in other European jurisdictions is as good as our own, which is why I oppose the EAW. It is based on flawed assumptions. That is a very bad basis on which to deprive people of their liberty.

    4) My objections are on criminal law grounds. Issues of personal liberty and the balance of power between the state and the citizen are pretty fundamental to me. I'm all in favour of making cross-border trade easier. But people are not parcels to be shipped across borders on the stroke of a bureaucrat's pen.

    I am as outraged by the UK/US extradition treaty and have said so in the past on here. I was responding to @DavidL's comment that the EAW should be kept.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    The word was notoriously used at Smethwick during the 1964 election. The slogan 'If you want a nigger for a neighbour , Vote Labour' helped Peter Griffiths defeat Patrick Gordon - Walker there against the national swing.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,543
    justin124 said:

    The word was notoriously used at Smethwick during the 1964 election. The slogan 'If you want a nigger for a neighbour , Vote Labour' helped Peter Griffiths defeat Patrick Gordon - Walker there against the national swing.

    Though not by Griffiths. The slogan was used by Colin Jordan and his supporters.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 28,257
    Nigelb said:

    another_richard said:

    FPT re productivity.

    I wonder if Don Brind has any thoughts as to public sector productivity between 1997 and 2010 ?

    Here is the official ONS data:

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/economicoutputandproductivity/publicservicesproductivity/datasets/growthratesofoutputandproductivityfortotalpublicservicesexcludingqualityadjustmentforhealthcareandeducationtable3

    It shows that public sector productivity declined by 1.3% between 1997 and 2010 but if you removed the 'quality adjustment' aka exam grade inflation then public sector productivity fell by a shocking 8.3% during the Labour government.

    But that was a Blairite (i.e. Tory) period...
    :smiley:

    There was no shortage of incoherence in Don Brind's economic thoughts.

    For example pointing out the dangerously large current account deficit (and rightly so) and then suggesting pay rises for five million public sector workers. I wonder how much of those pay rises would subsequently increase the current account deficit further via yet more imported consumer tat and foreign holidays.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,751
    I don't wish to defend this MP who was pretty stupid using such a phrase.

    But she was not addressing a person and calling them "nigger" which would have been utterly appalling and wrong. She was using a US phrase (a pretty unpleasant one) to describe an event. Stupid, insensitive, thoughtless. But not quite as bad as using the word or phrase to insult a person or group of persons.

    Though quite bad enough.

    I've no idea, though, whether she has form elsewhere in using racially derogatory language.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,543
    Cyclefree said:

    I don't wish to defend this MP who was pretty stupid using such a phrase.

    But she was not addressing a person and calling them "nigger" which would have been utterly appalling and wrong. She was using a US phrase (a pretty unpleasant one) to describe an event. Stupid, insensitive, thoughtless. But not quite as bad as using the word or phrase to insult a person or group of persons.

    Though quite bad enough.

    I've no idea, though, whether she has form elsewhere in using racially derogatory language.

    Not that I know of.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,107
    Cyclefree said:

    I don't wish to defend this MP who was pretty stupid using such a phrase.

    But she was not addressing a person and calling them "nigger" which would have been utterly appalling and wrong. She was using a US phrase (a pretty unpleasant one) to describe an event. Stupid, insensitive, thoughtless. But not quite as bad as using the word or phrase to insult a person or group of persons.

    Though quite bad enough.

    I've no idea, though, whether she has form elsewhere in using racially derogatory language.

    She is an MP, she should know better and set an example. It is bizarre that anyone in politics would use that word.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,942
    edited July 2017
    justin124 said:

    The word was notoriously used at Smethwick during the 1964 election. The slogan 'If you want a nigger for a neighbour , Vote Labour' helped Peter Griffiths defeat Patrick Gordon - Walker there against the national swing.

    I hate the fact that language gets in the way of communication. I have a friend who's a Zimbabwean - he has ancestors in living memory that threw spears at British troops. Now obviously I don't condone hurting HMGs forces, but, my word, how interesting and needs-to-be-told is that story. I guess it was pretty standard at the time though, and they felt it to be a dull old existence in much the same way my ancestors felt their knocking-on-middle-class Victorianism to be.

    PS. Sorry - my point is that it's hard to enquire about these things.
  • calumcalum Posts: 3,046
    Cyclefree said:

    I don't wish to defend this MP who was pretty stupid using such a phrase.

    But she was not addressing a person and calling them "nigger" which would have been utterly appalling and wrong. She was using a US phrase (a pretty unpleasant one) to describe an event. Stupid, insensitive, thoughtless. But not quite as bad as using the word or phrase to insult a person or group of persons.

    Though quite bad enough.

    I've no idea, though, whether she has form elsewhere in using racially derogatory language.

    http://www.devonlive.com/anne-marie-morris-distances-herself-from-vile-racist-remark-made-by-her-agent-at-hustings-event/story-30365953-detail/story.html
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,216
    I'm not sure I've seen this talked about on here, but I think the parents of Charlie Gard and their supporters are a disgrace.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,949
    What this woman said was daft, stupid and outrageous... But people say all sorts of stupid things all the time.

    Condemning a whole party for one persons stupidity seems harsh.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,543
    Jonathan said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I don't wish to defend this MP who was pretty stupid using such a phrase.

    But she was not addressing a person and calling them "nigger" which would have been utterly appalling and wrong. She was using a US phrase (a pretty unpleasant one) to describe an event. Stupid, insensitive, thoughtless. But not quite as bad as using the word or phrase to insult a person or group of persons.

    Though quite bad enough.

    I've no idea, though, whether she has form elsewhere in using racially derogatory language.

    She is an MP, she should know better and set an example. It is bizarre that anyone in politics would use that word.
    Whilst I agree specifically, I'm still glad that CCHQ turned me down. I would never use that particular phrase, but I'm pretty sure I would have said or written something that would have been deemed offensive to somebody.
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092
    Jonathan said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I don't wish to defend this MP who was pretty stupid using such a phrase.

    But she was not addressing a person and calling them "nigger" which would have been utterly appalling and wrong. She was using a US phrase (a pretty unpleasant one) to describe an event. Stupid, insensitive, thoughtless. But not quite as bad as using the word or phrase to insult a person or group of persons.

    Though quite bad enough.

    I've no idea, though, whether she has form elsewhere in using racially derogatory language.

    She is an MP, she should know better and set an example. It is bizarre that anyone in politics would use that word.
    I'm more baffled by it than anything else. Who on earth is she spending her time around in the day and age that would use that phrase often enough that it could just slip out?
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 28,257
    Stereotomy said:

    Jonathan said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I don't wish to defend this MP who was pretty stupid using such a phrase.

    But she was not addressing a person and calling them "nigger" which would have been utterly appalling and wrong. She was using a US phrase (a pretty unpleasant one) to describe an event. Stupid, insensitive, thoughtless. But not quite as bad as using the word or phrase to insult a person or group of persons.

    Though quite bad enough.

    I've no idea, though, whether she has form elsewhere in using racially derogatory language.

    She is an MP, she should know better and set an example. It is bizarre that anyone in politics would use that word.
    I'm more baffled by it than anything else. Who on earth is she spending her time around in the day and age that would use that phrase often enough that it could just slip out?
    Maybe she's a Mark Twain fan.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,543
    calum said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I don't wish to defend this MP who was pretty stupid using such a phrase.

    But she was not addressing a person and calling them "nigger" which would have been utterly appalling and wrong. She was using a US phrase (a pretty unpleasant one) to describe an event. Stupid, insensitive, thoughtless. But not quite as bad as using the word or phrase to insult a person or group of persons.

    Though quite bad enough.

    I've no idea, though, whether she has form elsewhere in using racially derogatory language.

    http://www.devonlive.com/anne-marie-morris-distances-herself-from-vile-racist-remark-made-by-her-agent-at-hustings-event/story-30365953-detail/story.html
    That is not racially derogatory language, and it was not expressed by the MP.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,384
    I thought that it was only Arlene Foster who got in to problems because of wood piles.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 28,257
    Bloke in Doncaster says he doesn't want to work with Poles or Romanians:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-40555802

    Actually he's a Pole who wants to integrate but I fear he'll get a visit from the SYP's hate crimes squad.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 28,257
    SandyRentool said:

    I thought that it was only Arlene Foster who got in to problems because of wood piles.

    Ann Marie Morris should defect to the DUP - she'd get the M5 extended to her constituency.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,344
    Thoughtless and insensitive choice of phrasing, this certainly was. But let's leave the castigation for genuine racism. There's still enough of it about.
  • MonkeysMonkeys Posts: 820
    Stereotomy said:

    Jonathan said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I don't wish to defend this MP who was pretty stupid using such a phrase.

    But she was not addressing a person and calling them "nigger" which would have been utterly appalling and wrong. She was using a US phrase (a pretty unpleasant one) to describe an event. Stupid, insensitive, thoughtless. But not quite as bad as using the word or phrase to insult a person or group of persons.

    Though quite bad enough.

    I've no idea, though, whether she has form elsewhere in using racially derogatory language.

    She is an MP, she should know better and set an example. It is bizarre that anyone in politics would use that word.
    I'm more baffled by it than anything else. Who on earth is she spending her time around in the day and age that would use that phrase often enough that it could just slip out?
    she browses /pol/
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,344
    tlg86 said:

    I'm not sure I've seen this talked about on here, but I think the parents of Charlie Gard and their supporters are a disgrace.

    I would draw a distinction between the parents (for whom we should have sympathy) and their supporters. But yes, the way the case has been hijacked by pro-life activists is pretty distasteful.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,113
    Homophobia seems a far bigger issue to my mind than racism judging by the below the line comments regarding 'Pride'.
  • NorthofStokeNorthofStoke Posts: 1,758
    another_richard said:

    Stereotomy said:

    Jonathan said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I don't wish to defend this MP who was pretty stupid using such a phrase.

    But she was not addressing a person and calling them "nigger" which would have been utterly appalling and wrong. She was using a US phrase (a pretty unpleasant one) to describe an event. Stupid, insensitive, thoughtless. But not quite as bad as using the word or phrase to insult a person or group of persons.

    Though quite bad enough.

    I've no idea, though, whether she has form elsewhere in using racially derogatory language.

    She is an MP, she should know better and set an example. It is bizarre that anyone in politics would use that word.
    I'm more baffled by it than anything else. Who on earth is she spending her time around in the day and age that would use that phrase often enough that it could just slip out?
    Maybe she's a Mark Twain fan.
    I think there is a reservoir of (correctly) no longer acceptable phrases that were absorbed when young that you have to apply internal censorship to and pray they don't slip out.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,543
    another_richard said:

    SandyRentool said:

    I thought that it was only Arlene Foster who got in to problems because of wood piles.

    Ann Marie Morris should defect to the DUP - she'd get the M5 extended to her constituency.
    Funnily enough, she may have more influence as an independent.
  • PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138
    Stereotomy said:

    Jonathan said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I don't wish to defend this MP who was pretty stupid using such a phrase.
    But she was not addressing a person and calling them "nigger" which would have been utterly appalling and wrong. She was using a US phrase (a pretty unpleasant one) to describe an event. Stupid, insensitive, thoughtless. But not quite as bad as using the word or phrase to insult a person or group of persons.
    Though quite bad enough.
    I've no idea, though, whether she has form elsewhere in using racially derogatory language.

    She is an MP, she should know better and set an example. It is bizarre that anyone in politics would use that word.
    I'm more baffled by it than anything else. Who on earth is she spending her time around in the day and age that would use that phrase often enough that it could just slip out?
    From what I have read elsewhere, her husband, who doubles up as her campaign manager, also has form.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 28,257
    A pretty good correlation between these places and where Labour did very well:

    ' The researchers pulled data from the Office for National Statistics, Trades Union Congress and property site Zoopla to find the towns and cities with the best, and worst, financial stability. Taking into account variables like rates of employment, credit scores, average commute times and crime rates, Totally Money then ranked 52 cities from best to worst.

    London is streaks ahead of the competition as the most stressful hellhole in the country. This is due to the capital having the longest average commute times, from the UK’s most expensive homes, to jobs which require the most overtime. '

    http://metro.co.uk/2017/07/01/the-11-most-financially-stressed-towns-and-cities-in-the-uk-6748056/

    By comparison the low stress places are a mixed bunch:

    http://metro.co.uk/2017/07/01/the-11-best-towns-and-cities-in-the-uk-for-financial-stability-and-a-stress-free-life-6748207/
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 61,411
    ThomasNashe said:

    Thoughtless and insensitive choice of phrasing, this certainly was. But let's leave the castigation for genuine racism. There's still enough of it about.

    +1
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 61,411
    Pulpstar said:

    Homophobia seems a far bigger issue to my mind than racism judging by the below the line comments regarding 'Pride'.

    It's the worst disease apparently.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,216
    ThomasNashe said:

    tlg86 said:

    I'm not sure I've seen this talked about on here, but I think the parents of Charlie Gard and their supporters are a disgrace.

    I would draw a distinction between the parents (for whom we should have sympathy) and their supporters. But yes, the way the case has been hijacked by pro-life activists is pretty distasteful.
    Don't get me wrong, I feel very sorry for them, but what they are doing makes it that much more difficult for other parents who are also faced with this horrible decision.

    Doctors aren't totally infallible - there was the Ashya King case where it looks like the proton beam therapy did work. But the Charlie Gard case is very different.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    another_richard said:

    Stereotomy said:

    Jonathan said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I don't wish to defend this MP who was pretty stupid using such a phrase.

    But she was not addressing a person and calling them "nigger" which would have been utterly appalling and wrong. She was using a US phrase (a pretty unpleasant one) to describe an event. Stupid, insensitive, thoughtless. But not quite as bad as using the word or phrase to insult a person or group of persons.

    Though quite bad enough.

    I've no idea, though, whether she has form elsewhere in using racially derogatory language.

    She is an MP, she should know better and set an example. It is bizarre that anyone in politics would use that word.
    I'm more baffled by it than anything else. Who on earth is she spending her time around in the day and age that would use that phrase often enough that it could just slip out?
    Maybe she's a Mark Twain fan.
    Or watches a lot of Tarantino films: The Hateful Eight is only explicable on the basis that someone bet QT he could not get more than 100 uses of the word "nigger" into the one movie.
  • nunuonenunuone Posts: 1,138
    Pulpstar said:

    Not only can Muller clarify the constitutional position of Brexit, turns out G Miller is a nifty tennis player too.

    That tactical voting group polled both Kensington and Battersea during the election with a "stop brexit candidate".

    Both were gained by Labour......hmmm did that group pull off two big scalps?
  • nunuonenunuone Posts: 1,138
    Sean_F said:

    Jonathan said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I don't wish to defend this MP who was pretty stupid using such a phrase.

    But she was not addressing a person and calling them "nigger" which would have been utterly appalling and wrong. She was using a US phrase (a pretty unpleasant one) to describe an event. Stupid, insensitive, thoughtless. But not quite as bad as using the word or phrase to insult a person or group of persons.

    Though quite bad enough.

    I've no idea, though, whether she has form elsewhere in using racially derogatory language.

    She is an MP, she should know better and set an example. It is bizarre that anyone in politics would use that word.
    Whilst I agree specifically, I'm still glad that CCHQ turned me down. I would never use that particular phrase, but I'm pretty sure I would have said or written something that would have been deemed offensive to somebody.
    *Looks over pb posing history*
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    another_richard said:

    FPT re productivity.

    I wonder if Don Brind has any thoughts as to public sector productivity between 1997 and 2010 ?

    Here is the official ONS data:

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/economicoutputandproductivity/publicservicesproductivity/datasets/growthratesofoutputandproductivityfortotalpublicservicesexcludingqualityadjustmentforhealthcareandeducationtable3

    It shows that public sector productivity declined by 1.3% between 1997 and 2010 but if you removed the 'quality adjustment' aka exam grade inflation then public sector productivity fell by a shocking 8.3% during the Labour government.

    Wasn't there a specific policy in those years to reduce class sizes (that is reduce teacher productivity) and reduce junior doctors hours (reduce productivity) while lengthening GP appointments (reduce productivity)?

    Assessing productivity in service industries is problematic enough, before we consider the further issue of how to measure this in services free at the point of use.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 28,257
    ThomasNashe said:

    Thoughtless and insensitive choice of phrasing, this certainly was. But let's leave the castigation for genuine racism. There's still enough of it about.

    ThomasNashe said:

    tlg86 said:

    I'm not sure I've seen this talked about on here, but I think the parents of Charlie Gard and their supporters are a disgrace.

    I would draw a distinction between the parents (for whom we should have sympathy) and their supporters. But yes, the way the case has been hijacked by pro-life activists is pretty distasteful.
    Whatever the issue there is never any shortage of people posturing their outrage or signalling their virtue these days.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,780
    another_richard said:

    SandyRentool said:

    I thought that it was only Arlene Foster who got in to problems because of wood piles.

    Ann Marie Morris should defect to the DUP - she'd get the M5 extended to her constituency.
    There is an M5:in NI. Don't let Arlene sign off the cheque to the contractors else you might find that gets extended to Devon.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    SandyRentool said:

    I thought that it was only Arlene Foster who got in to problems because of wood piles.

    I like what you've done there.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    MarkHopkins said:

    tlg86 said:

    This is pretty kool:

    https://f1-start.glitch.me/


    0.227

    0.017
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    https://twitter.com/skynews/status/884516718424576004
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,789
    Sean_F said:

    Jonathan said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I don't wish to defend this MP who was pretty stupid using such a phrase.

    But she was not addressing a person and calling them "nigger" which would have been utterly appalling and wrong. She was using a US phrase (a pretty unpleasant one) to describe an event. Stupid, insensitive, thoughtless. But not quite as bad as using the word or phrase to insult a person or group of persons.

    Though quite bad enough.

    I've no idea, though, whether she has form elsewhere in using racially derogatory language.

    She is an MP, she should know better and set an example. It is bizarre that anyone in politics would use that word.
    Whilst I agree specifically, I'm still glad that CCHQ turned me down. I would never use that particular phrase, but I'm pretty sure I would have said or written something that would have been deemed offensive to somebody.
    You always seem very civil to me. Ultra-dry, sure, but you've posted here for years and never said anything that bothered even the sensitive among us.

    That said, I'm not sure you'd enjoy Parliament - too much pressure to conform.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    another_richard said:

    A pretty good correlation between these places and where Labour did very well:

    ' The researchers pulled data from the Office for National Statistics, Trades Union Congress and property site Zoopla to find the towns and cities with the best, and worst, financial stability. Taking into account variables like rates of employment, credit scores, average commute times and crime rates, Totally Money then ranked 52 cities from best to worst.

    London is streaks ahead of the competition as the most stressful hellhole in the country. This is due to the capital having the longest average commute times, from the UK’s most expensive homes, to jobs which require the most overtime. '

    http://metro.co.uk/2017/07/01/the-11-most-financially-stressed-towns-and-cities-in-the-uk-6748056/

    By comparison the low stress places are a mixed bunch:

    http://metro.co.uk/2017/07/01/the-11-best-towns-and-cities-in-the-uk-for-financial-stability-and-a-stress-free-life-6748207/

    Also Labour! Leicester in at number 6 in less financial stress. Not sure how that fits in with lowest disposable incomes:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/may/25/leicester-has-lowest-household-disposable-income-in-the-uk
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,969
    GIN1138 said:

    What this woman said was daft, stupid and outrageous... But people say all sorts of stupid things all the time.

    Condemning a whole party for one persons stupidity seems harsh.

    Not if it is the Tory party Gin.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    Charles said:

    MarkHopkins said:

    tlg86 said:

    This is pretty kool:

    https://f1-start.glitch.me/


    0.227

    0.017
    That reaction time would get you disqualified for a false start in a sprint race.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited July 2017
    nunuone said:

    Sean_F said:

    Jonathan said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I don't wish to defend this MP who was pretty stupid using such a phrase.

    But she was not addressing a person and calling them "nigger" which would have been utterly appalling and wrong. She was using a US phrase (a pretty unpleasant one) to describe an event. Stupid, insensitive, thoughtless. But not quite as bad as using the word or phrase to insult a person or group of persons.

    Though quite bad enough.

    I've no idea, though, whether she has form elsewhere in using racially derogatory language.

    She is an MP, she should know better and set an example. It is bizarre that anyone in politics would use that word.
    Whilst I agree specifically, I'm still glad that CCHQ turned me down. I would never use that particular phrase, but I'm pretty sure I would have said or written something that would have been deemed offensive to somebody.
    *Looks over pb posing history*
    Can I congratulate you on your honesty? Few poseurs are so honest :)
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,631
    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/skynews/status/884516718424576004

    Blimey, the Metro's not taking any prisoners is it!?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    tlg86 said:

    ThomasNashe said:

    tlg86 said:

    I'm not sure I've seen this talked about on here, but I think the parents of Charlie Gard and their supporters are a disgrace.

    I would draw a distinction between the parents (for whom we should have sympathy) and their supporters. But yes, the way the case has been hijacked by pro-life activists is pretty distasteful.
    Don't get me wrong, I feel very sorry for them, but what they are doing makes it that much more difficult for other parents who are also faced with this horrible decision.

    Doctors aren't totally infallible - there was the Ashya King case where it looks like the proton beam therapy did work. But the Charlie Gard case is very different.
    They aren't rational right now. They are clinging onto hope, and it's very very sad to see.

    (FPT - the Standard is a load of bollocks. Tc99, which is the main medical isotope, principally comes from Chalk River in Canada and OPAL in Australia. Not much is produced in Poland and the Netherlands. There is also a programme to install cyclotrons in the UK to produce the necessary radiotherapeutics using a different approach)
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,543
    NickPalmer said:

    Sean_F said:

    Jonathan said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I don't wish to defend this MP who was pretty stupid using such a phrase.

    But she was not addressing a person and calling them "nigger" which would have been utterly appalling and wrong. She was using a US phrase (a pretty unpleasant one) to describe an event. Stupid, insensitive, thoughtless. But not quite as bad as using the word or phrase to insult a person or group of persons.

    Though quite bad enough.

    I've no idea, though, whether she has form elsewhere in using racially derogatory language.

    She is an MP, she should know better and set an example. It is bizarre that anyone in politics would use that word.
    Whilst I agree specifically, I'm still glad that CCHQ turned me down. I would never use that particular phrase, but I'm pretty sure I would have said or written something that would have been deemed offensive to somebody.
    You always seem very civil to me. Ultra-dry, sure, but you've posted here for years and never said anything that bothered even the sensitive among us.

    That said, I'm not sure you'd enjoy Parliament - too much pressure to conform.
    Usually yes, but occasionally things irritate me, or I make black jokes.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,751
    ThomasNashe said:

    tlg86 said:

    I'm not sure I've seen this talked about on here, but I think the parents of Charlie Gard and their supporters are a disgrace.

    I would draw a distinction between the parents (for whom we should have sympathy) and their supporters. But yes, the way the case has been hijacked by pro-life activists is pretty distasteful.
    "Thou shall not kill.
    But needst not strive.
    Officiously. To keep alive."

    Would seem applicable here.

    It is going to sound harsh, I know, but maybe the parents are too emotionally involved, understandably, to see that letting go may be the best thing they can do for their child. Prolonging suffering when there is no hope is unkind. The doctors involved are not monsters. Love and praying for a miracle are not enough.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Sean_F said:

    NickPalmer said:

    Sean_F said:

    Jonathan said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I don't wish to defend this MP who was pretty stupid using such a phrase.

    But she was not addressing a person and calling them "nigger" which would have been utterly appalling and wrong. She was using a US phrase (a pretty unpleasant one) to describe an event. Stupid, insensitive, thoughtless. But not quite as bad as using the word or phrase to insult a person or group of persons.

    Though quite bad enough.

    I've no idea, though, whether she has form elsewhere in using racially derogatory language.

    She is an MP, she should know better and set an example. It is bizarre that anyone in politics would use that word.
    Whilst I agree specifically, I'm still glad that CCHQ turned me down. I would never use that particular phrase, but I'm pretty sure I would have said or written something that would have been deemed offensive to somebody.
    You always seem very civil to me. Ultra-dry, sure, but you've posted here for years and never said anything that bothered even the sensitive among us.

    That said, I'm not sure you'd enjoy Parliament - too much pressure to conform.
    Usually yes, but occasionally things irritate me, or I make black jokes.
    Better than N-word jokes I suppose :wink:
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 28,257
    Cyclefree said:

    ThomasNashe said:

    tlg86 said:

    I'm not sure I've seen this talked about on here, but I think the parents of Charlie Gard and their supporters are a disgrace.

    I would draw a distinction between the parents (for whom we should have sympathy) and their supporters. But yes, the way the case has been hijacked by pro-life activists is pretty distasteful.
    "Thou shall not kill.
    But needst not strive.
    Officiously. To keep alive."

    Would seem applicable here.

    It is going to sound harsh, I know, but maybe the parents are too emotionally involved, understandably, to see that letting go may be the best thing they can do for their child. Prolonging suffering when there is no hope is unkind. The doctors involved are not monsters. Love and praying for a miracle are not enough.
    Indeed.

    This case reminds me of this:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/5429724/Parents-committed-suicide-at-Beachy-Head-after-disabled-son-died-from-meningitis.html
  • JetJet Posts: 11
    edited July 2017
    I agree: credit to Theresa May for suspending the whip. She did the right thing, and she did it promptly, even if she had little choice but to.

    What a pea-brain Ann Marie Morris must be. Seriously!

    She can't even apologise properly. "The comment was totally unintentional. I apologise unreservedly for any offence caused." No, dear. This isn't like saying "nitty-gritty" without knowing the term's origin, which many decent people do. You got caught casually using the N word, FFS! An apology should be for what you did, e.g. "I'm sorry I did X". And don't use a form of words that suggests that offence may or may not have "been caused", but that if it was caused (because why should you know whether it was or not, since those of us who say we're disgusted might be putting it on, right?) then you're sorry. Get the F out of public life, you racist moron!
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,751
    Slightly off topic: the documentary "The Sixties" about the US has one episode which is all about the civil rights movement. The level of abuse and racism and violence meted out to blacks is truly shocking and it is remarkable and impressive how, in the face of such behaviour, Martin Luther King and others were able to keep their protest movement non-violent for so long.

    The other documentary about the Civil Rights Movement (again a US film) - "Eyes on the Prize" - available on YouTube is also very well worth watching.

    King's "I have a dream" speech remains one of the most remarkable and inspirational speeches ever.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,113
    another_richard said:

    A pretty good correlation between these places and where Labour did very well:

    ' The researchers pulled data from the Office for National Statistics, Trades Union Congress and property site Zoopla to find the towns and cities with the best, and worst, financial stability. Taking into account variables like rates of employment, credit scores, average commute times and crime rates, Totally Money then ranked 52 cities from best to worst.

    London is streaks ahead of the competition as the most stressful hellhole in the country. This is due to the capital having the longest average commute times, from the UK’s most expensive homes, to jobs which require the most overtime. '

    http://metro.co.uk/2017/07/01/the-11-most-financially-stressed-towns-and-cities-in-the-uk-6748056/

    By comparison the low stress places are a mixed bunch:

    http://metro.co.uk/2017/07/01/the-11-best-towns-and-cities-in-the-uk-for-financial-stability-and-a-stress-free-life-6748207/

    Shhhhh ^_~
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,543
    Jet said:

    I agree: credit to Theresa May for suspending the whip. She did the right thing, and she did it promptly, even if she had little choice but to.

    What a pea-brain Ann Marie Morris must be. Seriously!

    She can't even apologise properly. "The comment was totally unintentional. I apologise unreservedly for any offence caused." No, dear. This isn't like saying "nitty-gritty" without knowing the term's origin, which many decent people do. You got caught casually using the N word, FFS! An apology should be for what you did, e.g. "I'm sorry I did X". And don't use a form of words that suggests that offence may or may not have "been caused", but that if it was caused (because why should you know whether it was or not, since those of us who say we're disgusted might be putting it on, right?) then you're sorry. Get the F out of public life, you racist moron!

    Jet said:

    I agree: credit to Theresa May for suspending the whip. She did the right thing, and she did it promptly, even if she had little choice but to.

    What a pea-brain Ann Marie Morris must be. Seriously!

    She can't even apologise properly. "The comment was totally unintentional. I apologise unreservedly for any offence caused." No, dear. This isn't like saying "nitty-gritty" without knowing the term's origin, which many decent people do. You got caught casually using the N word, FFS! An apology should be for what you did, e.g. "I'm sorry I did X". And don't use a form of words that suggests that offence may or may not have "been caused", but that if it was caused (because why should you know whether it was or not, since those of us who say we're disgusted might be putting it on, right?) then you're sorry. Get the F out of public life, you racist moron!

    Thank you for sharing your noble self-righteous thoughts with us.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Cyclefree said:

    ThomasNashe said:

    tlg86 said:

    I'm not sure I've seen this talked about on here, but I think the parents of Charlie Gard and their supporters are a disgrace.

    I would draw a distinction between the parents (for whom we should have sympathy) and their supporters. But yes, the way the case has been hijacked by pro-life activists is pretty distasteful.
    "Thou shall not kill.
    But needst not strive.
    Officiously. To keep alive."

    Would seem applicable here.

    It is going to sound harsh, I know, but maybe the parents are too emotionally involved, understandably, to see that letting go may be the best thing they can do for their child. Prolonging suffering when there is no hope is unkind. The doctors involved are not monsters. Love and praying for a miracle are not enough.
    That quotation is satirically intended but almost always taken literally; it is from The Latest Decalogue by Arthur Hugh Clough which begins

    THOU shalt have one God only; who
    Would be at the expense of two?
    No graven images may be
    Worshipped, except the currency.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 28,257
    foxinsoxuk said:

    another_richard said:

    FPT re productivity.

    I wonder if Don Brind has any thoughts as to public sector productivity between 1997 and 2010 ?

    Here is the official ONS data:

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/economicoutputandproductivity/publicservicesproductivity/datasets/growthratesofoutputandproductivityfortotalpublicservicesexcludingqualityadjustmentforhealthcareandeducationtable3

    It shows that public sector productivity declined by 1.3% between 1997 and 2010 but if you removed the 'quality adjustment' aka exam grade inflation then public sector productivity fell by a shocking 8.3% during the Labour government.

    Wasn't there a specific policy in those years to reduce class sizes (that is reduce teacher productivity) and reduce junior doctors hours (reduce productivity) while lengthening GP appointments (reduce productivity)?

    Assessing productivity in service industries is problematic enough, before we consider the further issue of how to measure this in services free at the point of use.
    Indeed.

    One of the difficulties in increasing productivity now in the UK is that for much of the economy an increase in productivity isn't necessarily what the consumers want.

    For a non public sector example I would like the supermarkets to decrease their productivity by increasing the number of checkout tills in operation.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Cyclefree said:

    Slightly off topic: the documentary "The Sixties" about the US has one episode which is all about the civil rights movement. The level of abuse and racism and violence meted out to blacks is truly shocking and it is remarkable and impressive how, in the face of such behaviour, Martin Luther King and others were able to keep their protest movement non-violent for so long.

    The other documentary about the Civil Rights Movement (again a US film) - "Eyes on the Prize" - available on YouTube is also very well worth watching.

    King's "I have a dream" speech remains one of the most remarkable and inspirational speeches ever.

    "13th" on Neflix is an eyeopener on modern racism in America.

    https://youtu.be/V66F3WU2CKk

  • JetJet Posts: 11
    Even Boris Johnson, who in 2002 said the monarch must love touring the Commonwealth because she gets greeted by "cheering crowds of flag-waving piccaninnies" and that Tony Blair would be met in the Congo with "watermelon smiles" - two racist insults for which he apologised - has either learnt to control himself or has changed his attitude. (Or perhaps not even HuffPo would dare press "record" at the Carlton or Beefsteak!)
  • birdmanbirdman Posts: 3
    another_richard said:

    foxinsoxuk said:

    another_richard said:

    FPT re productivity.

    I wonder if Don Brind has any thoughts as to public sector productivity between 1997 and 2010 ?

    Here is the official ONS data:

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/economicoutputandproductivity/publicservicesproductivity/datasets/growthratesofoutputandproductivityfortotalpublicservicesexcludingqualityadjustmentforhealthcareandeducationtable3

    It shows that public sector productivity declined by 1.3% between 1997 and 2010 but if you removed the 'quality adjustment' aka exam grade inflation then public sector productivity fell by a shocking 8.3% during the Labour government.

    Wasn't there a specific policy in those years to reduce class sizes (that is reduce teacher productivity) and reduce junior doctors hours (reduce productivity) while lengthening GP appointments (reduce productivity)?

    Assessing productivity in service industries is problematic enough, before we consider the further issue of how to measure this in services free at the point of use.
    Indeed.

    One of the difficulties in increasing productivity now in the UK is that for much of the economy an increase in productivity isn't necessarily what the consumers want.

    For a non public sector example I would like the supermarkets to decrease their productivity by increasing the number of checkout tills in operation.
    Increasing the number of self-checkout tills will increase the shop's productivity.

  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,751
    Jet said:

    I agree: credit to Theresa May for suspending the whip. She did the right thing, and she did it promptly, even if she had little choice but to.

    What a pea-brain Ann Marie Morris must be. Seriously!

    She can't even apologise properly. "The comment was totally unintentional. I apologise unreservedly for any offence caused." No, dear. This isn't like saying "nitty-gritty" without knowing the term's origin, which many decent people do. You got caught casually using the N word, FFS! An apology should be for what you did, e.g. "I'm sorry I did X". And don't use a form of words that suggests that offence may or may not have "been caused", but that if it was caused (because why should you know whether it was or not, since those of us who say we're disgusted might be putting it on, right?) then you're sorry. Get the F out of public life, you racist moron!

    It's the non-apology apology. One should apologise for what one has done or not done, regardless of whether any offence has been caused. It's not the offence caused which is the problem.

    I'm thinking of running courses for those in public life teaching them how to apologise. It's really very simple. Start with the word "I" and end with the word "sorry". Add the verb in the middle.

    Judging by how hard it appears to be I should make millions.

    Note: the Cyclefree Infallible Apology guide (CIA) is applying for copyright.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,928
    Pro_Rata said:

    another_richard said:

    SandyRentool said:

    I thought that it was only Arlene Foster who got in to problems because of wood piles.

    Ann Marie Morris should defect to the DUP - she'd get the M5 extended to her constituency.
    There is an M5:in NI. Don't let Arlene sign off the cheque to the contractors else you might find that gets extended to Devon.
    M5 is a star cluster in Serpens the Serpent :)
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,772
    Cyclefree said:

    It's the non-apology apology. One should apologise for what one has done or not done, regardless of whether any offence has been caused. It's not the offence caused which is the problem.

    I'm thinking of running courses for those in public life teaching them how to apologise. It's really very simple. Start with the word "I" and end with the word "sorry". Add the verb in the middle.

    Judging by how hard it appears to be I should make millions.

    Note: the Cyclefree Infallible Apology guide (CIA) is applying for copyright.

    If only I had known you a few years ago.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 28,257
    Cyclefree said:

    Slightly off topic: the documentary "The Sixties" about the US has one episode which is all about the civil rights movement. The level of abuse and racism and violence meted out to blacks is truly shocking and it is remarkable and impressive how, in the face of such behaviour, Martin Luther King and others were able to keep their protest movement non-violent for so long.

    The other documentary about the Civil Rights Movement (again a US film) - "Eyes on the Prize" - available on YouTube is also very well worth watching.

    King's "I have a dream" speech remains one of the most remarkable and inspirational speeches ever.

    That was a good program.

    This was also very good and set in that era:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I'll_Fly_Away_(TV_series)
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    another_richard said:

    foxinsoxuk said:

    another_richard said:

    FPT re productivity.

    I wonder if Don Brind has any thoughts as to public sector productivity between 1997 and 2010 ?

    Here is the official ONS data:

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/economicoutputandproductivity/publicservicesproductivity/datasets/growthratesofoutputandproductivityfortotalpublicservicesexcludingqualityadjustmentforhealthcareandeducationtable3

    It shows that public sector productivity declined by 1.3% between 1997 and 2010 but if you removed the 'quality adjustment' aka exam grade inflation then public sector productivity fell by a shocking 8.3% during the Labour government.

    Wasn't there a specific policy in those years to reduce class sizes (that is reduce teacher productivity) and reduce junior doctors hours (reduce productivity) while lengthening GP appointments (reduce productivity)?

    Assessing productivity in service industries is problematic enough, before we consider the further issue of how to measure this in services free at the point of use.
    Indeed.

    One of the difficulties in increasing productivity now in the UK is that for much of the economy an increase in productivity isn't necessarily what the consumers want.

    For a non public sector example I would like the supermarkets to decrease their productivity by increasing the number of checkout tills in operation.
    That said, in terms of patients seen per clinic in my speciality there has been a major decline, and the numbers seen per practitioner are only about 60% of the numbers of my youth.

    Are they getting better care? possibly, but assessing quality is almost as difficult as productivity when dealing with non fatal conditions, and even then we should allow for disability rates in survivors. Take 24 week neonates for example.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,751
    foxinsoxuk said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Slightly off topic: the documentary "The Sixties" about the US has one episode which is all about the civil rights movement. The level of abuse and racism and violence meted out to blacks is truly shocking and it is remarkable and impressive how, in the face of such behaviour, Martin Luther King and others were able to keep their protest movement non-violent for so long.

    The other documentary about the Civil Rights Movement (again a US film) - "Eyes on the Prize" - available on YouTube is also very well worth watching.

    King's "I have a dream" speech remains one of the most remarkable and inspirational speeches ever.

    "13th" on Neflix is an eyeopener on modern racism in America.

    https://youtu.be/V66F3WU2CKk

    Thank you.

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,928
    Ishmael_Z said:

    another_richard said:

    Stereotomy said:

    Jonathan said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I don't wish to defend this MP who was pretty stupid using such a phrase.

    But she was not addressing a person and calling them "nigger" which would have been utterly appalling and wrong. She was using a US phrase (a pretty unpleasant one) to describe an event. Stupid, insensitive, thoughtless. But not quite as bad as using the word or phrase to insult a person or group of persons.

    Though quite bad enough.

    I've no idea, though, whether she has form elsewhere in using racially derogatory language.

    She is an MP, she should know better and set an example. It is bizarre that anyone in politics would use that word.
    I'm more baffled by it than anything else. Who on earth is she spending her time around in the day and age that would use that phrase often enough that it could just slip out?
    Maybe she's a Mark Twain fan.
    Or watches a lot of Tarantino films: The Hateful Eight is only explicable on the basis that someone bet QT he could not get more than 100 uses of the word "nigger" into the one movie.
    Training Day mit Denzel Washington :)
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,751
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Cyclefree said:

    It's the non-apology apology. One should apologise for what one has done or not done, regardless of whether any offence has been caused. It's not the offence caused which is the problem.

    I'm thinking of running courses for those in public life teaching them how to apologise. It's really very simple. Start with the word "I" and end with the word "sorry". Add the verb in the middle.

    Judging by how hard it appears to be I should make millions.

    Note: the Cyclefree Infallible Apology guide (CIA) is applying for copyright.

    If only I had known you a few years ago.
    Do you not make mistakes anymore then? :)
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Cyclefree said:

    foxinsoxuk said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Slightly off topic: the documentary "The Sixties" about the US has one episode which is all about the civil rights movement. The level of abuse and racism and violence meted out to blacks is truly shocking and it is remarkable and impressive how, in the face of such behaviour, Martin Luther King and others were able to keep their protest movement non-violent for so long.

    The other documentary about the Civil Rights Movement (again a US film) - "Eyes on the Prize" - available on YouTube is also very well worth watching.

    King's "I have a dream" speech remains one of the most remarkable and inspirational speeches ever.

    "13th" on Neflix is an eyeopener on modern racism in America.

    https://youtu.be/V66F3WU2CKk

    Thank you.

    The Netflix documentary section is really good. The Oscar winning White Helmets is there too.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 28,257
    birdman said:

    another_richard said:

    foxinsoxuk said:

    another_richard said:

    FPT re productivity.

    I wonder if Don Brind has any thoughts as to public sector productivity between 1997 and 2010 ?

    Here is the official ONS data:

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/economicoutputandproductivity/publicservicesproductivity/datasets/growthratesofoutputandproductivityfortotalpublicservicesexcludingqualityadjustmentforhealthcareandeducationtable3

    It shows that public sector productivity declined by 1.3% between 1997 and 2010 but if you removed the 'quality adjustment' aka exam grade inflation then public sector productivity fell by a shocking 8.3% during the Labour government.

    Wasn't there a specific policy in those years to reduce class sizes (that is reduce teacher productivity) and reduce junior doctors hours (reduce productivity) while lengthening GP appointments (reduce productivity)?

    Assessing productivity in service industries is problematic enough, before we consider the further issue of how to measure this in services free at the point of use.
    Indeed.

    One of the difficulties in increasing productivity now in the UK is that for much of the economy an increase in productivity isn't necessarily what the consumers want.

    For a non public sector example I would like the supermarkets to decrease their productivity by increasing the number of checkout tills in operation.
    Increasing the number of self-checkout tills will increase the shop's productivity.

    But not their customers satisfaction.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,153
    The legacy of Gove ?

    New rules for punctuation (hitherto secret):
    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2017/jul/10/primary-school-children-lose-marks-in-sats-tests-for-mis-shaped-commas
This discussion has been closed.

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