politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Some Tories are determined to retoxify the party

30:00

Game Set And Match JackW

JackW said:

Game Set And Match JackW

There's a word for playing with yourself....

JackW said:

Game Set And Match JackW

No-one is playing with you. It's just a dream.

Nigelb said:

JackW said:

Game Set And Match JackW

There's a word for playing with yourself....

Solitaire ....

Somebody clearly started the thread with four double faults in a row.

williamglenn said:

Somebody clearly started the thread with four double faults in a row.

Indeed. TSE failed to serve up his usual "first" thread ace ...

This is pretty kool:

https://f1-start.glitch.me/

tlg86 said:

This is pretty kool:

https://f1-start.glitch.me/

0.227

Storm in a teacup.

Nadal loses to Muller 15:13

Dadge said:

I grew up in the 70s. Things were different then. There was a lot of prejudice. Unlearning it is an ongoing process for me and everyone from that era and older. I keep hearing that "age is no excuse" but of course it is. If this utterance is part of a pattern, then action should be taken. If not, an apology should suffice.

I, too, grew up in the 70s, and my parents were pretty racist by today's standards, if not those of the day, and were quite happy to use "lesser" racial epithets. But even they knew the n-word was not acceptable in any way.

Poor from Wimbledon. The Djokovic match should have moved to Centre Court.

Nigelb said:

Wow.

Muller outplays even JackW.

Murray's half of the draw opens up with Cilic the next highest seed at seven.

another_richard said:

FPT re productivity.

I wonder if Don Brind has any thoughts as to public sector productivity between 1997 and 2010 ?

Here is the official ONS data:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/economicoutputandproductivity/publicservicesproductivity/datasets/growthratesofoutputandproductivityfortotalpublicservicesexcludingqualityadjustmentforhealthcareandeducationtable3

It shows that public sector productivity declined by 1.3% between 1997 and 2010 but if you removed the 'quality adjustment' aka exam grade inflation then public sector productivity fell by a shocking 8.3% during the Labour government.

But that was a Blairite (i.e. Tory) period...

FPT: In response to @RoyalBlue:-


"1) I don't see how EU membership will result in the end of common law jurisdictions. Louisiana has maintained its civil law despite being alone in that regard within the US.

2) We are quite capable of sabotaging common law principles ourselves. I refer to you to the suspension of habeas corpus in centuries past, or the rise of shadowy closed family courts and the reduction of types of cases tried by juries in our own times. I don't think either were compelled by the EU.

3) Do I prefer the principles of common law to civil law? Yes. Do I think it so superior that we should arrogantly reject all civil law jurisdictions as being inherently degraded? Absolutely not. Common law is indeed one reason why 'Britain has largely avoided falling prey to tyranny and authoritarianism' but there are many others.

4) Would I like to be charged in Italy? No. On a more likely example, I do like the fact that if I sell something to an Italian firm and they don't pay I can compel it with a European Order of Payment (EOP).

Are you as outraged by the utterly one-sided provisions of the UKUSA extradition treaty? At least in the EU the member states are treated equally."


1) Louisiana is irrelevant. Given the European push to integration I think the loss of the common law and, specifically, the principles of English criminal law is a very real risk.

2) Agreed - but so what. Just because we have not always practised what we preached is no reason to agree to more of the practices we find unacceptable.

3) I don't think that the criminal law in other European jurisdictions is as good as our own, which is why I oppose the EAW. It is based on flawed assumptions. That is a very bad basis on which to deprive people of their liberty.

4) My objections are on criminal law grounds. Issues of personal liberty and the balance of power between the state and the citizen are pretty fundamental to me. I'm all in favour of making cross-border trade easier. But people are not parcels to be shipped across borders on the stroke of a bureaucrat's pen.

I am as outraged by the UK/US extradition treaty and have said so in the past on here. I was responding to @DavidL's comment that the EAW should be kept.

justin124 said:

The word was notoriously used at Smethwick during the 1964 election. The slogan 'If you want a nigger for a neighbour , Vote Labour' helped Peter Griffiths defeat Patrick Gordon - Walker there against the national swing.

Though not by Griffiths. The slogan was used by Colin Jordan and his supporters.

I don't wish to defend this MP who was pretty stupid using such a phrase.

But she was not addressing a person and calling them "nigger" which would have been utterly appalling and wrong. She was using a US phrase (a pretty unpleasant one) to describe an event. Stupid, insensitive, thoughtless. But not quite as bad as using the word or phrase to insult a person or group of persons.

Though quite bad enough.

I've no idea, though, whether she has form elsewhere in using racially derogatory language.

Cyclefree said:

I don't wish to defend this MP who was pretty stupid using such a phrase.

But she was not addressing a person and calling them "nigger" which would have been utterly appalling and wrong. She was using a US phrase (a pretty unpleasant one) to describe an event. Stupid, insensitive, thoughtless. But not quite as bad as using the word or phrase to insult a person or group of persons.

Though quite bad enough.

I've no idea, though, whether she has form elsewhere in using racially derogatory language.

She is an MP, she should know better and set an example. It is bizarre that anyone in politics would use that word.

Cyclefree said:

I don't wish to defend this MP who was pretty stupid using such a phrase.

But she was not addressing a person and calling them "nigger" which would have been utterly appalling and wrong. She was using a US phrase (a pretty unpleasant one) to describe an event. Stupid, insensitive, thoughtless. But not quite as bad as using the word or phrase to insult a person or group of persons.

Though quite bad enough.

I've no idea, though, whether she has form elsewhere in using racially derogatory language.

http://www.devonlive.com/anne-marie-morris-distances-herself-from-vile-racist-remark-made-by-her-agent-at-hustings-event/story-30365953-detail/story.html

What this woman said was daft, stupid and outrageous... But people say all sorts of stupid things all the time.

Condemning a whole party for one persons stupidity seems harsh.

Jonathan said:

Cyclefree said:

I don't wish to defend this MP who was pretty stupid using such a phrase.

But she was not addressing a person and calling them "nigger" which would have been utterly appalling and wrong. She was using a US phrase (a pretty unpleasant one) to describe an event. Stupid, insensitive, thoughtless. But not quite as bad as using the word or phrase to insult a person or group of persons.

Though quite bad enough.

I've no idea, though, whether she has form elsewhere in using racially derogatory language.

She is an MP, she should know better and set an example. It is bizarre that anyone in politics would use that word.

I'm more baffled by it than anything else. Who on earth is she spending her time around in the day and age that would use that phrase often enough that it could just slip out?

calum said:

Cyclefree said:

I don't wish to defend this MP who was pretty stupid using such a phrase.

But she was not addressing a person and calling them "nigger" which would have been utterly appalling and wrong. She was using a US phrase (a pretty unpleasant one) to describe an event. Stupid, insensitive, thoughtless. But not quite as bad as using the word or phrase to insult a person or group of persons.

Though quite bad enough.

I've no idea, though, whether she has form elsewhere in using racially derogatory language.

http://www.devonlive.com/anne-marie-morris-distances-herself-from-vile-racist-remark-made-by-her-agent-at-hustings-event/story-30365953-detail/story.html

That is not racially derogatory language, and it was not expressed by the MP.

Bloke in Doncaster says he doesn't want to work with Poles or Romanians:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-40555802

Actually he's a Pole who wants to integrate but I fear he'll get a visit from the SYP's hate crimes squad.

Thoughtless and insensitive choice of phrasing, this certainly was. But let's leave the castigation for genuine racism. There's still enough of it about.

tlg86 said:

I'm not sure I've seen this talked about on here, but I think the parents of Charlie Gard and their supporters are a disgrace.

I would draw a distinction between the parents (for whom we should have sympathy) and their supporters. But yes, the way the case has been hijacked by pro-life activists is pretty distasteful.

another_richard said:

Stereotomy said:

Jonathan said:

Cyclefree said:

I don't wish to defend this MP who was pretty stupid using such a phrase.

But she was not addressing a person and calling them "nigger" which would have been utterly appalling and wrong. She was using a US phrase (a pretty unpleasant one) to describe an event. Stupid, insensitive, thoughtless. But not quite as bad as using the word or phrase to insult a person or group of persons.

Though quite bad enough.

I've no idea, though, whether she has form elsewhere in using racially derogatory language.

She is an MP, she should know better and set an example. It is bizarre that anyone in politics would use that word.

I'm more baffled by it than anything else. Who on earth is she spending her time around in the day and age that would use that phrase often enough that it could just slip out?

Maybe she's a Mark Twain fan.

I think there is a reservoir of (correctly) no longer acceptable phrases that were absorbed when young that you have to apply internal censorship to and pray they don't slip out.

Stereotomy said:

Jonathan said:

Cyclefree said:

I don't wish to defend this MP who was pretty stupid using such a phrase.
But she was not addressing a person and calling them "nigger" which would have been utterly appalling and wrong. She was using a US phrase (a pretty unpleasant one) to describe an event. Stupid, insensitive, thoughtless. But not quite as bad as using the word or phrase to insult a person or group of persons.
Though quite bad enough.
I've no idea, though, whether she has form elsewhere in using racially derogatory language.

She is an MP, she should know better and set an example. It is bizarre that anyone in politics would use that word.

I'm more baffled by it than anything else. Who on earth is she spending her time around in the day and age that would use that phrase often enough that it could just slip out?

From what I have read elsewhere, her husband, who doubles up as her campaign manager, also has form.

ThomasNashe said:

Thoughtless and insensitive choice of phrasing, this certainly was. But let's leave the castigation for genuine racism. There's still enough of it about.

+1

ThomasNashe said:

tlg86 said:

I'm not sure I've seen this talked about on here, but I think the parents of Charlie Gard and their supporters are a disgrace.

I would draw a distinction between the parents (for whom we should have sympathy) and their supporters. But yes, the way the case has been hijacked by pro-life activists is pretty distasteful.

Don't get me wrong, I feel very sorry for them, but what they are doing makes it that much more difficult for other parents who are also faced with this horrible decision.

Doctors aren't totally infallible - there was the Ashya King case where it looks like the proton beam therapy did work. But the Charlie Gard case is very different.

Pulpstar said:

Not only can Muller clarify the constitutional position of Brexit, turns out G Miller is a nifty tennis player too.

That tactical voting group polled both Kensington and Battersea during the election with a "stop brexit candidate".

Both were gained by Labour......hmmm did that group pull off two big scalps?

another_richard said:

FPT re productivity.

I wonder if Don Brind has any thoughts as to public sector productivity between 1997 and 2010 ?

Here is the official ONS data:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/economicoutputandproductivity/publicservicesproductivity/datasets/growthratesofoutputandproductivityfortotalpublicservicesexcludingqualityadjustmentforhealthcareandeducationtable3

It shows that public sector productivity declined by 1.3% between 1997 and 2010 but if you removed the 'quality adjustment' aka exam grade inflation then public sector productivity fell by a shocking 8.3% during the Labour government.

Wasn't there a specific policy in those years to reduce class sizes (that is reduce teacher productivity) and reduce junior doctors hours (reduce productivity) while lengthening GP appointments (reduce productivity)?

Assessing productivity in service industries is problematic enough, before we consider the further issue of how to measure this in services free at the point of use.

another_richard said:

SandyRentool said:

I thought that it was only Arlene Foster who got in to problems because of wood piles.

Ann Marie Morris should defect to the DUP - she'd get the M5 extended to her constituency.

There is an M5:in NI. Don't let Arlene sign off the cheque to the contractors else you might find that gets extended to Devon.

MarkHopkins said:

tlg86 said:

This is pretty kool:

https://f1-start.glitch.me/

0.227

0.017

Sean_F said:

Jonathan said:

Cyclefree said:

I don't wish to defend this MP who was pretty stupid using such a phrase.

But she was not addressing a person and calling them "nigger" which would have been utterly appalling and wrong. She was using a US phrase (a pretty unpleasant one) to describe an event. Stupid, insensitive, thoughtless. But not quite as bad as using the word or phrase to insult a person or group of persons.

Though quite bad enough.

I've no idea, though, whether she has form elsewhere in using racially derogatory language.

She is an MP, she should know better and set an example. It is bizarre that anyone in politics would use that word.

Whilst I agree specifically, I'm still glad that CCHQ turned me down. I would never use that particular phrase, but I'm pretty sure I would have said or written something that would have been deemed offensive to somebody.

You always seem very civil to me. Ultra-dry, sure, but you've posted here for years and never said anything that bothered even the sensitive among us.

That said, I'm not sure you'd enjoy Parliament - too much pressure to conform.

GIN1138 said:

What this woman said was daft, stupid and outrageous... But people say all sorts of stupid things all the time.

Condemning a whole party for one persons stupidity seems harsh.

Not if it is the Tory party Gin.

nunuone said:

Sean_F said:

Jonathan said:

Cyclefree said:

I don't wish to defend this MP who was pretty stupid using such a phrase.

But she was not addressing a person and calling them "nigger" which would have been utterly appalling and wrong. She was using a US phrase (a pretty unpleasant one) to describe an event. Stupid, insensitive, thoughtless. But not quite as bad as using the word or phrase to insult a person or group of persons.

Though quite bad enough.

I've no idea, though, whether she has form elsewhere in using racially derogatory language.

She is an MP, she should know better and set an example. It is bizarre that anyone in politics would use that word.

Whilst I agree specifically, I'm still glad that CCHQ turned me down. I would never use that particular phrase, but I'm pretty sure I would have said or written something that would have been deemed offensive to somebody.

*Looks over pb posing history*

Can I congratulate you on your honesty? Few poseurs are so honest

tlg86 said:

ThomasNashe said:

tlg86 said:

I'm not sure I've seen this talked about on here, but I think the parents of Charlie Gard and their supporters are a disgrace.

I would draw a distinction between the parents (for whom we should have sympathy) and their supporters. But yes, the way the case has been hijacked by pro-life activists is pretty distasteful.

Don't get me wrong, I feel very sorry for them, but what they are doing makes it that much more difficult for other parents who are also faced with this horrible decision.

Doctors aren't totally infallible - there was the Ashya King case where it looks like the proton beam therapy did work. But the Charlie Gard case is very different.

They aren't rational right now. They are clinging onto hope, and it's very very sad to see.

(FPT - the Standard is a load of bollocks. Tc99, which is the main medical isotope, principally comes from Chalk River in Canada and OPAL in Australia. Not much is produced in Poland and the Netherlands. There is also a programme to install cyclotrons in the UK to produce the necessary radiotherapeutics using a different approach)

ThomasNashe said:

tlg86 said:

I'm not sure I've seen this talked about on here, but I think the parents of Charlie Gard and their supporters are a disgrace.

I would draw a distinction between the parents (for whom we should have sympathy) and their supporters. But yes, the way the case has been hijacked by pro-life activists is pretty distasteful.

"Thou shall not kill.
But needst not strive.
Officiously. To keep alive."

Would seem applicable here.

It is going to sound harsh, I know, but maybe the parents are too emotionally involved, understandably, to see that letting go may be the best thing they can do for their child. Prolonging suffering when there is no hope is unkind. The doctors involved are not monsters. Love and praying for a miracle are not enough.

Cyclefree said:

ThomasNashe said:

tlg86 said:

I'm not sure I've seen this talked about on here, but I think the parents of Charlie Gard and their supporters are a disgrace.

I would draw a distinction between the parents (for whom we should have sympathy) and their supporters. But yes, the way the case has been hijacked by pro-life activists is pretty distasteful.

"Thou shall not kill.
But needst not strive.
Officiously. To keep alive."

Would seem applicable here.

It is going to sound harsh, I know, but maybe the parents are too emotionally involved, understandably, to see that letting go may be the best thing they can do for their child. Prolonging suffering when there is no hope is unkind. The doctors involved are not monsters. Love and praying for a miracle are not enough.

Indeed.

This case reminds me of this:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/5429724/Parents-committed-suicide-at-Beachy-Head-after-disabled-son-died-from-meningitis.html

Slightly off topic: the documentary "The Sixties" about the US has one episode which is all about the civil rights movement. The level of abuse and racism and violence meted out to blacks is truly shocking and it is remarkable and impressive how, in the face of such behaviour, Martin Luther King and others were able to keep their protest movement non-violent for so long.

The other documentary about the Civil Rights Movement (again a US film) - "Eyes on the Prize" - available on YouTube is also very well worth watching.

King's "I have a dream" speech remains one of the most remarkable and inspirational speeches ever.

Jet said:

I agree: credit to Theresa May for suspending the whip. She did the right thing, and she did it promptly, even if she had little choice but to.

What a pea-brain Ann Marie Morris must be. Seriously!

She can't even apologise properly. "The comment was totally unintentional. I apologise unreservedly for any offence caused." No, dear. This isn't like saying "nitty-gritty" without knowing the term's origin, which many decent people do. You got caught casually using the N word, FFS! An apology should be for what you did, e.g. "I'm sorry I did X". And don't use a form of words that suggests that offence may or may not have "been caused", but that if it was caused (because why should you know whether it was or not, since those of us who say we're disgusted might be putting it on, right?) then you're sorry. Get the F out of public life, you racist moron!

Jet said:

I agree: credit to Theresa May for suspending the whip. She did the right thing, and she did it promptly, even if she had little choice but to.

What a pea-brain Ann Marie Morris must be. Seriously!

She can't even apologise properly. "The comment was totally unintentional. I apologise unreservedly for any offence caused." No, dear. This isn't like saying "nitty-gritty" without knowing the term's origin, which many decent people do. You got caught casually using the N word, FFS! An apology should be for what you did, e.g. "I'm sorry I did X". And don't use a form of words that suggests that offence may or may not have "been caused", but that if it was caused (because why should you know whether it was or not, since those of us who say we're disgusted might be putting it on, right?) then you're sorry. Get the F out of public life, you racist moron!

Thank you for sharing your noble self-righteous thoughts with us.

foxinsoxuk said:

another_richard said:

FPT re productivity.

I wonder if Don Brind has any thoughts as to public sector productivity between 1997 and 2010 ?

Here is the official ONS data:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/economicoutputandproductivity/publicservicesproductivity/datasets/growthratesofoutputandproductivityfortotalpublicservicesexcludingqualityadjustmentforhealthcareandeducationtable3

It shows that public sector productivity declined by 1.3% between 1997 and 2010 but if you removed the 'quality adjustment' aka exam grade inflation then public sector productivity fell by a shocking 8.3% during the Labour government.

Wasn't there a specific policy in those years to reduce class sizes (that is reduce teacher productivity) and reduce junior doctors hours (reduce productivity) while lengthening GP appointments (reduce productivity)?

Assessing productivity in service industries is problematic enough, before we consider the further issue of how to measure this in services free at the point of use.

Indeed.

One of the difficulties in increasing productivity now in the UK is that for much of the economy an increase in productivity isn't necessarily what the consumers want.

For a non public sector example I would like the supermarkets to decrease their productivity by increasing the number of checkout tills in operation.

Jet said:

I agree: credit to Theresa May for suspending the whip. She did the right thing, and she did it promptly, even if she had little choice but to.

What a pea-brain Ann Marie Morris must be. Seriously!

She can't even apologise properly. "The comment was totally unintentional. I apologise unreservedly for any offence caused." No, dear. This isn't like saying "nitty-gritty" without knowing the term's origin, which many decent people do. You got caught casually using the N word, FFS! An apology should be for what you did, e.g. "I'm sorry I did X". And don't use a form of words that suggests that offence may or may not have "been caused", but that if it was caused (because why should you know whether it was or not, since those of us who say we're disgusted might be putting it on, right?) then you're sorry. Get the F out of public life, you racist moron!

It's the non-apology apology. One should apologise for what one has done or not done, regardless of whether any offence has been caused. It's not the offence caused which is the problem.

I'm thinking of running courses for those in public life teaching them how to apologise. It's really very simple. Start with the word "I" and end with the word "sorry". Add the verb in the middle.

Judging by how hard it appears to be I should make millions.

Note: the Cyclefree Infallible Apology guide (CIA) is applying for copyright.

Cyclefree said:

It's the non-apology apology. One should apologise for what one has done or not done, regardless of whether any offence has been caused. It's not the offence caused which is the problem.

I'm thinking of running courses for those in public life teaching them how to apologise. It's really very simple. Start with the word "I" and end with the word "sorry". Add the verb in the middle.

Judging by how hard it appears to be I should make millions.

Note: the Cyclefree Infallible Apology guide (CIA) is applying for copyright.

If only I had known you a few years ago.

another_richard said:

foxinsoxuk said:

another_richard said:

FPT re productivity.

I wonder if Don Brind has any thoughts as to public sector productivity between 1997 and 2010 ?

Here is the official ONS data:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/economicoutputandproductivity/publicservicesproductivity/datasets/growthratesofoutputandproductivityfortotalpublicservicesexcludingqualityadjustmentforhealthcareandeducationtable3

It shows that public sector productivity declined by 1.3% between 1997 and 2010 but if you removed the 'quality adjustment' aka exam grade inflation then public sector productivity fell by a shocking 8.3% during the Labour government.

Wasn't there a specific policy in those years to reduce class sizes (that is reduce teacher productivity) and reduce junior doctors hours (reduce productivity) while lengthening GP appointments (reduce productivity)?

Assessing productivity in service industries is problematic enough, before we consider the further issue of how to measure this in services free at the point of use.

Indeed.

One of the difficulties in increasing productivity now in the UK is that for much of the economy an increase in productivity isn't necessarily what the consumers want.

For a non public sector example I would like the supermarkets to decrease their productivity by increasing the number of checkout tills in operation.

That said, in terms of patients seen per clinic in my speciality there has been a major decline, and the numbers seen per practitioner are only about 60% of the numbers of my youth.

Are they getting better care? possibly, but assessing quality is almost as difficult as productivity when dealing with non fatal conditions, and even then we should allow for disability rates in survivors. Take 24 week neonates for example.

Ishmael_Z said:

another_richard said:

Stereotomy said:

Jonathan said:

Cyclefree said:

I don't wish to defend this MP who was pretty stupid using such a phrase.

But she was not addressing a person and calling them "nigger" which would have been utterly appalling and wrong. She was using a US phrase (a pretty unpleasant one) to describe an event. Stupid, insensitive, thoughtless. But not quite as bad as using the word or phrase to insult a person or group of persons.

Though quite bad enough.

I've no idea, though, whether she has form elsewhere in using racially derogatory language.

She is an MP, she should know better and set an example. It is bizarre that anyone in politics would use that word.

I'm more baffled by it than anything else. Who on earth is she spending her time around in the day and age that would use that phrase often enough that it could just slip out?

Maybe she's a Mark Twain fan.

Or watches a lot of Tarantino films: The Hateful Eight is only explicable on the basis that someone bet QT he could not get more than 100 uses of the word "nigger" into the one movie.

Training Day mit Denzel Washington

Cyclefree said:

foxinsoxuk said:

Cyclefree said:

Slightly off topic: the documentary "The Sixties" about the US has one episode which is all about the civil rights movement. The level of abuse and racism and violence meted out to blacks is truly shocking and it is remarkable and impressive how, in the face of such behaviour, Martin Luther King and others were able to keep their protest movement non-violent for so long.

The other documentary about the Civil Rights Movement (again a US film) - "Eyes on the Prize" - available on YouTube is also very well worth watching.

King's "I have a dream" speech remains one of the most remarkable and inspirational speeches ever.

"13th" on Neflix is an eyeopener on modern racism in America.

https://youtu.be/V66F3WU2CKk

Thank you.

The Netflix documentary section is really good. The Oscar winning White Helmets is there too.

The legacy of Gove ?

New rules for punctuation (hitherto secret):
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2017/jul/10/primary-school-children-lose-marks-in-sats-tests-for-mis-shaped-commas