politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Conservative choices. The class of 2017
politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Conservative choices. The class of 2017
They were supposed to be so much more numerous, but in the end the new Conservative MPs of 2017 were a fairly select group. The 32 novice MPs on the government benches make up just 10% of the Conservatives’ intake. I’ve therefore compiled a table of the newbies which can be accessed by clicking here. What do we know about them?
Comments
-
10
-
20
-
Those first two posts are literally illiterate....0
-
Really interesting thread header. Thanks!
Can we expect a similar one for the new labour intake?
0 -
Extraordinary that somebody has taken so much time to research and produce this thread header. I've no idea of its significance or veracity but hats off to the author.0
-
Andrew Bowie (Conservative, Aberdeenshire West & Kincardine) has taken over from Callum McCaig (SNP, Aberdeen South) as the cutest MP in the new intake.0
-
Great piece, interesting about the Remain instincts opinion. One of them, Leo Docherty has a book on Afghanistan written as a young junior army officer and it makes for interesting reading, at times punchy and critical, other times somewhat egocentric approach means he will be interesting to watch as he settles in at the safe seat of Aldershot. I sense he will be struggle with the formalities of Parliament (he did with the Army) but is not afraid of speaking his mind. what that means on BREXIT remains unclear0
-
As a group, the new Scottish Conservative MPs are, with one or two exceptions, considerably less interested in Brexit than their English counterparts.
Given that many of them owe their seats to Brexit, they should take a lot more interest in it.0 -
Agreed.tlg86 said:As a group, the new Scottish Conservative MPs are, with one or two exceptions, considerably less interested in Brexit than their English counterparts.
Given that many of them owe their seats to Brexit, they should take a lot more interest in it.
Although not blocking Brexit seems to be enough for half of brexit voters, which is why they voted Labour.0 -
Great analysis, Alastair.
I agree about Rachel Maclean. It was after reading about her that I went on to back her gaining Birmingham Northfield in GE2015.
She has a lot of promise.0 -
I still can't get over just how amazing the showing of the Scottish Conservatives was in GE2017 - huge swings, with clearly a lot of Labour and LD voters voting tactically for them.
Absolutely incredible.0 -
What i want to know is whether we have any new rebels within the ranks. Independently minded MP's who are not interested in becoming ministers and will vote against their party or abstain. The UK is going to have a rough economic period in the next few years and MP's are going to face challenges from their constituents. Many people are now worse off than they were 10 years ago and Theresa May is not currently in tune with the mood of the electorate.0
-
Interesting how many reputations have been inadvertently trashed by Lynton Crosby. Starting with Michael Howard with his ill judged 'Are you thinking what we're thinking'. Then Zak with his brutal attacks on the ethnicity of Sadiq Khan. Then of course Theresa with her xenophobic campaign against the EU during the last election.
And there's Boris and Govey..... Though in a narrow sense they won the Referendum the excesses of his campaign have probably ruined their careers and possibly the implementatation of the result itself.
The moral of the story? The British have a well developed sense of fair play which shouldn't be underestimated.
And on a technical level they are used to considerably more sophistication than his simple messaging allows which is why the subtlety of our communication is recognised throughout the world unlike the Antipodean model.
Note this is a British ad
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWo01rn7O1s
0 -
And just think where we would be now if it wasn't for that stellar performance!Casino_Royale said:I still can't get over just how amazing the showing of the Scottish Conservatives was in GE2017 - huge swings, with clearly a lot of Labour and LD voters voting tactically for them.
Absolutely incredible.0 -
Having breakfast in our homes?PeterC said:
And just think where we would be now if it wasn't for that stellar performance!Casino_Royale said:I still can't get over just how amazing the showing of the Scottish Conservatives was in GE2017 - huge swings, with clearly a lot of Labour and LD voters voting tactically for them.
Absolutely incredible.0 -
Yes, Alastair's working on that, is taking a bit longer because there are more new Labour MPs.rkrkrk said:Really interesting thread header. Thanks!
Can we expect a similar one for the new labour intake?0 -
Great campaign - this was my favourite:Roger said:Interesting how many reputations have been inadvertently trashed by Lynton Crosby. Starting with Michael Howard with his ill judged 'Are you thinking what we're thinking'. Then Zak with his brutal attacks on the ethnicity of Sadiq Khan. Then of course Theresa with her xenophobic campaign against the EU during the last election.
And there's Boris and Govey..... Though in a narrow sense they won the Referendum the excesses of his campaign have probably ruined their careers and possibly the implementatation of the result itself.
The moral of the story? The British have a well developed sense of fair play which shouldn't be underestimated.
And on a technical level they are used to considerably more sophistication than his simple messaging allows which is why the subtlety of our communication is recognised throughout the world unlike the Antipodean model.
Note this is a British ad
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWo01rn7O1s
https://youtu.be/pz_UT6tZKbU0 -
Although there will be underlying churn it is not clear to me Labour voters voted tactically for Tories, especially since their share rose by 3-4% in across the board. Which means even more SNP (perhaps brexit supporting voters) would have had to have switched straight to the Tories.rcs1000 said:
Having breakfast in our homes?PeterC said:
And just think where we would be now if it wasn't for that stellar performance!Casino_Royale said:I still can't get over just how amazing the showing of the Scottish Conservatives was in GE2017 - huge swings, with clearly a lot of Labour and LD voters voting tactically for them.
Absolutely incredible.0 -
Excellent thread! Not many swivel eyed loons (that is the insult du jour, isn't it?) among that lot.0
-
5 more years of Nasty Nicola and the SNP could easily lose their majority. Then the fun really would start.nunuone said:
Although there will be underlying churn it is not clear to me Labour voters voted tactically for Tories, especially since their share rose by 3-4% in across the board. Which means even more SNP (perhaps brexit supporting voters) would have had to have switched straight to the Tories.rcs1000 said:
Having breakfast in our homes?PeterC said:
And just think where we would be now if it wasn't for that stellar performance!Casino_Royale said:I still can't get over just how amazing the showing of the Scottish Conservatives was in GE2017 - huge swings, with clearly a lot of Labour and LD voters voting tactically for them.
Absolutely incredible.0 -
Indeed. It's the sort of thing that quality newspapers should be producing - perhaps they have and I've missed them. PB really does have some wonderfully informative, well-written threaders.freetochoose said:Extraordinary that somebody has taken so much time to research and produce this thread header. I've no idea of its significance or veracity but hats off to the author.
And, of course, TSE's.
At least no-one uses them to extol the so-called 'virtues' of Radiohead.0 -
"A nest of singing birds..."
Jeremy Corbyn supporters have won control of a Liverpool Labour group - ousting a council cabinet member and demanding an apology from MP Luciana Berger.
At a meeting of the Wavertree Labour branch last night, nine out of 10 positions on the group’s executive committee went to members of Momentum - the campaign group loyal to the Labour leader.
And a member of the new branch leadership immediately demanded an apology from Wavertree MP Luciana Berger , who resigned from Mr Corbyn’s shadow cabinet last year in the wake of the EU referendum result.
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/jeremy-corbyn-supporters-demand-luciana-13287439.amp0 -
Or this for its end line....CarlottaVance said:
Great campaign - this was my favourite:Roger said:Interesting how many reputations have been inadvertently trashed by Lynton Crosby. Starting with Michael Howard with his ill judged 'Are you thinking what we're thinking'. Then Zak with his brutal attacks on the ethnicity of Sadiq Khan. Then of course Theresa with her xenophobic campaign against the EU during the last election.
And there's Boris and Govey..... Though in a narrow sense they won the Referendum the excesses of his campaign have probably ruined their careers and possibly the implementatation of the result itself.
The moral of the story? The British have a well developed sense of fair play which shouldn't be underestimated.
And on a technical level they are used to considerably more sophistication than his simple messaging allows which is why the subtlety of our communication is recognised throughout the world unlike the Antipodean model.
Note this is a British ad
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWo01rn7O1s
https://youtu.be/pz_UT6tZKbU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FK073qi0tQ0 -
Did Liam Fox discuss offal in his trade scoping talks?
https://twitter.com/afp/status/8828424045957857280 -
There was a lower turnout too as I recall, so maybe a difficult to motivate by the SNP as much as a swing.nunuone said:
Although there will be underlying churn it is not clear to me Labour voters voted tactically for Tories, especially since their share rose by 3-4% in across the board. Which means even more SNP (perhaps brexit supporting voters) would have had to have switched straight to the Tories.rcs1000 said:
Having breakfast in our homes?PeterC said:
And just think where we would be now if it wasn't for that stellar performance!Casino_Royale said:I still can't get over just how amazing the showing of the Scottish Conservatives was in GE2017 - huge swings, with clearly a lot of Labour and LD voters voting tactically for them.
Absolutely incredible.0 -
Good morning, everyone.
A shame there are so few. Could easily be dozens more. Ah well.0 -
I would think so. We apparently 'have a lot of shared values'williamglenn said:Did Liam Fox discuss offal in his trade scoping talks?
https://twitter.com/afp/status/882842404595785728
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/liam-fox-philippines-rodrigo-duterte-brexit-article-50-trade-a7667031.html0 -
On the plus side, this was quicker for me to write up as a result.Morris_Dancer said:Good morning, everyone.
A shame there are so few. Could easily be dozens more. Ah well.0 -
Good Lord!Roger said:
I would think so. We apparently 'have a lot of shared values'williamglenn said:Did Liam Fox discuss offal in his trade scoping talks?
https://twitter.com/afp/status/882842404595785728
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/liam-fox-philippines-rodrigo-duterte-brexit-article-50-trade-a7667031.html
Is Brexit going so badly that we will become cannibals?
Will no one think of the children...0 -
I'm grateful for this purpose that Aaron Bell didn't win Don Valley. I'd have had a lot of pb threads to trawl through.0
-
'Headbanger' is the usual term for people who've gone into politics to actually achieve something rather than just stay in power for its own sake.CarlottaVance said:Excellent thread! Not many swivel eyed loons (that is the insult du jour, isn't it?) among that lot.
0 -
Thanks Alastair. I think some of the Scottish Conservative MPs must be genuinely surprised to have ended up in Westminster, a bit like their SNP predecessors in 2015. I think this will make it difficult for them and there has to be a risk that at least one decides it is not for them. With a minority government the pressure to hang in there will be huge of course.
I don't agree with those who claim they owe their seats to Brexit unless that is in the very technical sense that it triggered the election which they won. Brexit only figured in Scotland to the extent that it was used to demonstrate the absurdity of the SNP position, desperate to get out of one Union and yet supposedly desperate to be in another.
For Scotland the election and the Tory success was all about the Union. The key question going forward is whether the formative ideas of the Scottish party becoming independent bear fruit. There is no guarantee that all of the MPs share Ruth's views on this of course but it is possible that by the next election we will have a CDU/CSU relationship. It's an important call for Ruth should that by election come around and she is tempted to the bigger stage.0 -
No, they're probably waiting for the Labour version to be published here before they crib them.JosiasJessop said:
Indeed. It's the sort of thing that quality newspapers should be producing - perhaps they have and I've missed them...freetochoose said:Extraordinary that somebody has taken so much time to research and produce this thread header. I've no idea of its significance or veracity but hats off to the author.
There have been a few articles - with an emphasis on the new Scottish intake.
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/june2017/2017/06/scottish-tories-are-coming-how-12-new-mps-can-change-conservative-party
https://www.ft.com/content/408da138-550b-11e7-80b6-9bfa4c1f83d2?mhq5j=e1
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3779380/meet-the-new-and-old-mps-arriving-in-westminster-today-after-their-election-2017-wins-last-week/
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jun/10/new-mps-young-ethnically-diverse
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-401183180 -
F1: *sighs* Ladbrokes have rejigged the way they do their markets. Currently only half the usual number up, and they're in separate markets rather than all under one heading. It's just a slightly tedious change to make.0
-
And a 64 year old actor MP with a touch of the Dorian Gray......CarlottaVance said:Excellent thread! Not many swivel eyed loons (that is the insult du jour, isn't it?) among that lot.
http://www.gileswatling.com/userimages/Copy of Oswald Shot.jpg0 -
What do you think should happen?DavidL said:The key question going forward is whether the formative ideas of the Scottish party becoming independent bear fruit. There is no guarantee that all of the MPs share Ruth's views on this of course but it is possible that by the next election we will have a CDU/CSU relationship. It's an important call for Ruth should that by election come around and she is tempted to the bigger stage.
Weren't the days of "Tory"'(sic) glory in Scotland more "Unionist"?
0 -
-
-
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2007/jun/13/comment.afghanistanswing_voter said:Great piece, interesting about the Remain instincts opinion. One of them, Leo Docherty has a book on Afghanistan written as a young junior army officer and it makes for interesting reading, at times punchy and critical, other times somewhat egocentric approach means he will be interesting to watch as he settles in at the safe seat of Aldershot. I sense he will be struggle with the formalities of Parliament (he did with the Army) but is not afraid of speaking his mind. what that means on BREXIT remains unclear
Yes, pretty critical of British and NATO strategy in these small wars.0 -
The Scottish Conservatives managed to campaign on a topic that changed votes in their favour, that topic not being Brexit. You'd have thought there was a learning point for the English Conservatives there.DavidL said:Thanks Alastair. I think some of the Scottish Conservative MPs must be genuinely surprised to have ended up in Westminster, a bit like their SNP predecessors in 2015. I think this will make it difficult for them and there has to be a risk that at least one decides it is not for them. With a minority government the pressure to hang in there will be huge of course.
I don't agree with those who claim they owe their seats to Brexit unless that is in the very technical sense that it triggered the election which they won. Brexit only figured in Scotland to the extent that it was used to demonstrate the absurdity of the SNP position, desperate to get out of one Union and yet supposedly desperate to be in another.
For Scotland the election and the Tory success was all about the Union. The key question going forward is whether the formative ideas of the Scottish party becoming independent bear fruit. There is no guarantee that all of the MPs share Ruth's views on this of course but it is possible that by the next election we will have a CDU/CSU relationship. It's an important call for Ruth should that by election come around and she is tempted to the bigger stage.
One further point I wish I'd made. With politics becoming more multipolar, the Conservatives have new MPs with experience of local government, the European Parliament, the Scottish Parliament and the London Assembly, as well as spads. There are quite a few raw recruits but one consequence of devolution and EU membership is to make this a very politically experienced cohort.0 -
But what about the fucking wankers ?Scott_P said:0 -
While TP has always been a Tory, I don't recall him publically hanging or flogging anyone, and only scoffing a morsel of baby every now and then.AlastairMeeks said:I'm grateful for this purpose that Aaron Bell didn't win Don Valley. I'd have had a lot of pb threads to trawl through.
0 -
-
Sensible Leavers and Remainers should get on this train. Both sides can declare a victory of sorts.Scott_P said:0 -
FWIW a personal comment - I know Bob Seely because he stood against me in Broxtowe. He's a nice guy - obviously he was critical of various things but there wasn't anything nasty in it. At a personal level I hope he does well.0
-
StalkerAlastairMeeks said:I'm grateful for this purpose that Aaron Bell didn't win Don Valley. I'd have had a lot of pb threads to trawl through.
0 -
Mr. Blue, possibly.
Or both sides could complain of defeat
I think the majority in the country would be ok with it, particularly if it is 'for now'.
But worth recalling the Eiffel Tower was meant to be temporary.0 -
Yes, I would actively support the Tories in Scotland rebranding themselves as the Unionist party taking the Tory whip in Westminster but taking their own path in Holyrood. If they are to move on in Scotland they need to be distinctively separate and more centre than centre right. The left of Scottish politics is a big place but it is crowded with SLAB, the SNP and the Greens fighting for room.CarlottaVance said:
What do you think should happen?DavidL said:The key question going forward is whether the formative ideas of the Scottish party becoming independent bear fruit. There is no guarantee that all of the MPs share Ruth's views on this of course but it is possible that by the next election we will have a CDU/CSU relationship. It's an important call for Ruth should that by election come around and she is tempted to the bigger stage.
Weren't the days of "Tory"'(sic) glory in Scotland more "Unionist"?
There are no Kippers to play for in Scotland but there are a lot of people who still acknowledge that the amount the government spends has something to do with the tax that it raises and that if you try to take too much tax you will probably end up with less. These are the target group and Ruth is very well positioned to appeal to them even if the Union becomes less of an issue going forward.0 -
"Bugger, they've rumbled us..."TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Norway for now, it's Dave the Quisling!
If we crash out on WTO terms and the economy goes tittius verticus do we get some of that tasty foreign aid the big countries dish out?
Morning all0 -
The only headbangers i see are posters who bang on about how wrong we are on leaving,every day.Scott_P said:
"Sensible" people will be shouted down by the headbangers.RoyalBlue said:Sensible Leavers and Remainers should get on this train. Both sides can declare a victory of sorts.
Buy shares in Betrayal.
0 -
I have a photograph of me at Uni ready to go to a ball having got ready at my girlfriend's house. Behind us on the wall is a mini poster saying 'no to Maastricht without a referendum'
And therein lies the strange tale of the 25 year suicide of the UK.0 -
London already dishes out quite enough aid to the lotus eaters in the provinces. Judging by the general attitude of provincials to London, that surely counts as foreign.dyedwoolie said:Norway for now, it's Dave the Quisling!
If we crash out on WTO terms and the economy goes tittius verticus do we get some of that tasty foreign aid the big countries dish out?
Morning all0 -
Then look at the Tweet from Tom Newton DunnTykejohnno said:The only headbangers i see are posters who bang on about how wrong we are on leaving,every day.
"We've blown it"
The revealing part of that is that they've blown it by pursuing the purest form of Brexit imaginable
"This is what you voted for"
Umm, no thanks...0 -
I'd be happy with Norway. As long as we don't have to have the brown cheese.dyedwoolie said:Norway for now, it's Dave the Quisling!
If we crash out on WTO terms and the economy goes tittius verticus do we get some of that tasty foreign aid the big countries dish out?
Morning all0 -
We don't want money from that London. Norfolk turnip billions will suffice hereAlastairMeeks said:
London already dishes out quite enough aid to the lotus eaters in the provinces. Judging by the general attitude of provincials to London, that surely counts as foreign.dyedwoolie said:Norway for now, it's Dave the Quisling!
If we crash out on WTO terms and the economy goes tittius verticus do we get some of that tasty foreign aid the big countries dish out?
Morning all0 -
Just as soon as you've worked out who's going to pick them.dyedwoolie said:
We don't want money from that London. Norfolk turnip billions will suffice hereAlastairMeeks said:
London already dishes out quite enough aid to the lotus eaters in the provinces. Judging by the general attitude of provincials to London, that surely counts as foreign.dyedwoolie said:Norway for now, it's Dave the Quisling!
If we crash out on WTO terms and the economy goes tittius verticus do we get some of that tasty foreign aid the big countries dish out?
Morning all0 -
Or the alcohol prices!Bromptonaut said:
I'd be happy with Norway. As long as we don't have to have the brown cheese.dyedwoolie said:Norway for now, it's Dave the Quisling!
If we crash out on WTO terms and the economy goes tittius verticus do we get some of that tasty foreign aid the big countries dish out?
Morning all0 -
I just want it done, whatever the option, we are treading water and losing time and ground. We need a reality to deal with.Bromptonaut said:
I'd be happy with Norway. As long as we don't have to have the brown cheese.dyedwoolie said:Norway for now, it's Dave the Quisling!
If we crash out on WTO terms and the economy goes tittius verticus do we get some of that tasty foreign aid the big countries dish out?
Morning all0 -
Good Lord Alistair, this is Norfolk, not LincolnshireAlastairMeeks said:
Just as soon as you've worked out who's going to pick them.dyedwoolie said:
We don't want money from that London. Norfolk turnip billions will suffice hereAlastairMeeks said:
London already dishes out quite enough aid to the lotus eaters in the provinces. Judging by the general attitude of provincials to London, that surely counts as foreign.dyedwoolie said:Norway for now, it's Dave the Quisling!
If we crash out on WTO terms and the economy goes tittius verticus do we get some of that tasty foreign aid the big countries dish out?
Morning all0 -
One trip, looked at the price of a pint of Guinness at the departure gate at Oslo. Looked away quickly.CarlottaVance said:
Or the alcohol prices!Bromptonaut said:
I'd be happy with Norway. As long as we don't have to have the brown cheese.dyedwoolie said:Norway for now, it's Dave the Quisling!
If we crash out on WTO terms and the economy goes tittius verticus do we get some of that tasty foreign aid the big countries dish out?
Morning all0 -
Mr P,
I'm afraid your optimism is overdone.
Brexit won the referendum, but there lurked in many the belief that the Establishment would never accept it. Most voters have done, but the fanatics (head-bangers if you like), decided their last chance was to string it our for as long as possible and claim it was all too difficult. Cue - laughter as the head-bangers complained "You won, why aren't you celebrating?" the answer was as above.
So far all going as expected ... But like the last frantic gyrations of a trapped and dying rats, the head-bangers will probably ramp up their efforts.
All to no avail, the boat has sailed, it's too late. The head-bangers efforts are too transparent, and even if they succeeded, the lasting effect on the voters' view of democracy would be Pyrrhic. That's why Remain won't happen.
Victory is ours.0 -
Brexit, to coin a phrase, means Brexit. That is the priority. To get out of the undemocratic, bureaucratic cabal that is the EU and no longer have a situation where our elected representatives only make a portion of our laws. Anyone who claims that the vote meant more than that is overreaching.
So everything else is pragmatism and up for grabs. We clearly want a free trade deal. We ideally want to keep passporting. We want to remain involved in some aspects of the single market such as patents, air traffic systems, medicine and scientific research. It makes sense to pay an appropriate rate for this. We clearly still need to encourage the skilled and the enthusiastic to come here. We are a million miles from addressing the chronic inadequacies of our education systems and have obvious skill gaps as a result. We want as little disruption to our trade in the short term as possible. Over time I suspect that the EU and EU trade will play a smaller role in our prosperity but that can take care of itself. Is this really going to be that hard?0 -
Well ideally you would have a Norway model that lasts until midway through the next parliament, say 2024. Then, in the next election, all parties can actually say what they want to do moving forward. Lab may say just to make permanant the Norway model, Con to not renew it, LDs to renew it for another 10 years while we look into rejoining.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Blue, possibly.
Or both sides could complain of defeat
I think the majority in the country would be ok with it, particularly if it is 'for now'.
But worth recalling the Eiffel Tower was meant to be temporary.0 -
A repeat of a past discussion with @Roger, on the subject of classic beer ads, John Smith's available in Cannes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4e3jmtyLG8k
0 -
Off topic - what happened to the governments "help to save" accounts?
Have the tories lost interest in the jams?
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-austerity-betrayal-families-living-standards-plunge-tax-credits-benefits-a7825771.html0 -
Mr. Tonda, that sounds sensible.
Which means the probability of it happening must be vanishingly small. 0 -
You still seem to be aiming for Julie Andrews Brexit (raindrops on noses and whiskers on kittens).DavidL said:Brexit, to coin a phrase, means Brexit. That is the priority. To get out of the undemocratic, bureaucratic cabal that is the EU and no longer have a situation where our elected representatives only make a portion of our laws. Anyone who claims that the vote meant more than that is overreaching.
So everything else is pragmatism and up for grabs. We clearly want a free trade deal. We ideally want to keep passporting. We want to remain involved in some aspects of the single market such as patents, air traffic systems, medicine and scientific research. It makes sense to pay an appropriate rate for this. We clearly still need to encourage the skilled and the enthusiastic to come here. We are a million miles from addressing the chronic inadequacies of our education systems and have obvious skill gaps as a result. We want as little disruption to our trade in the short term as possible. Over time I suspect that the EU and EU trade will play a smaller role in our prosperity but that can take care of itself. Is this really going to be that hard?
Theresa May has broadly correctly identified the parameters within which Brexit must be carried out, given how the vote was obtained. That is of course catastrophic for Britain but vox populi vox dei.0 -
Robots!AlastairMeeks said:
Just as soon as you've worked out who's going to pick them.dyedwoolie said:
We don't want money from that London. Norfolk turnip billions will suffice hereAlastairMeeks said:
London already dishes out quite enough aid to the lotus eaters in the provinces. Judging by the general attitude of provincials to London, that surely counts as foreign.dyedwoolie said:Norway for now, it's Dave the Quisling!
If we crash out on WTO terms and the economy goes tittius verticus do we get some of that tasty foreign aid the big countries dish out?
Morning all
Lots of interesting work being done in the field of AI lawyering right now too. That's a profession which needs to watch its flesh-and-blood back against the rise of the machines.0 -
You can get 2% on a £3000 bond with NSandI. Doesn't that make you feel faint with excitement?Pong said:Off topic - what happened to the governments "help to save" accounts?
Have they lost interest in the jams?
I was hoping doing something for the jams meant the Order of Merit for Bill Drummond.0 -
I think you benefitted in the North East and Borders by being the party of Brexit, as well as the party of the Union.DavidL said:Thanks Alastair. I think some of the Scottish Conservative MPs must be genuinely surprised to have ended up in Westminster, a bit like their SNP predecessors in 2015. I think this will make it difficult for them and there has to be a risk that at least one decides it is not for them. With a minority government the pressure to hang in there will be huge of course.
I don't agree with those who claim they owe their seats to Brexit unless that is in the very technical sense that it triggered the election which they won. Brexit only figured in Scotland to the extent that it was used to demonstrate the absurdity of the SNP position, desperate to get out of one Union and yet supposedly desperate to be in another.
For Scotland the election and the Tory success was all about the Union. The key question going forward is whether the formative ideas of the Scottish party becoming independent bear fruit. There is no guarantee that all of the MPs share Ruth's views on this of course but it is possible that by the next election we will have a CDU/CSU relationship. It's an important call for Ruth should that by election come around and she is tempted to the bigger stage.0 -
Japanese hotel. Tepanyaki restaurant - set dinner - "£18 - not bad" I thought- until I realised I'd misplaced the decimal point....Bromptonaut said:
One trip, looked at the price of a pint of Guinness at the departure gate at Oslo. Looked away quickly.CarlottaVance said:
Or the alcohol prices!Bromptonaut said:
I'd be happy with Norway. As long as we don't have to have the brown cheese.dyedwoolie said:Norway for now, it's Dave the Quisling!
If we crash out on WTO terms and the economy goes tittius verticus do we get some of that tasty foreign aid the big countries dish out?
Morning all0 -
Mr Meeks,
You don't pick turnips (as you know, being a six-fingered gentlemen yourself), Incidentally, you don't pick beans, you pull them, but you do pick peas. But that's been automated for many years.
We managed in the sixties, and fewer people are needed now.
Land work isn't happy Dick van Dyke cockneys picking ripe apples in the summer sunshine. It's wet and cold, windy days, some spent indoors. Long hours and boring work.0 -
https://mobile.twitter.com/SupportOurLefty/status/882867810325626880Scott_P said:
"Bugger, they've rumbled us..."TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Morning all
Interesting topic from Antifrank. I recall similar regarding the new Conservative MPs in 1997, 2001 and 2005 but the first question they were asked was who they were going to back in the leadership election.
I'm intrigued no one has tried to ascertain which way this not insignificant group of the electorate might jump if and when May goes/is forced out (delete as appropriate). Will these new MPs be May's praetorian guard and stand with her till the end just as Portillo did for Thatcher in 1990 ?
We'll see.
The LD intake has more re-treads than a dodgy tyre workshop. Layla Moran might be one to keep an eye on in the coming years.
On matters European, once again the warp and weft of mood, rumour, counter-rumour etc.
To paraphrase Dean Acheson "Great Britain has voluntarily left a failing supra-national political and economic organisation and has yet to find a role". I keep coming back to what I see as the central problem/question/dilemma and it's one of identity. 23/6/16 defined what we didn't want in terms of being part of the European Union but it didn't define what we did want and it was obvious then (and more so now) that those of us who voted LEAVE came to that decision for a myriad of different reasons and with a myriad of expectations for the future.
That debate or conversation has simply not started. May's line which is effectively "don't worry your pretty little heads about it, trust me, I'll sort it out" wasn't good enough to win her a majority and rightly so. It is encumbent on us all to consider what kind of Britain we want in the 2020s. Like many others, I want us to be open, international and global in aspect, culture and outlook but I don't want us simply to be a larger version of Singapore or Hong Kong providing cleaners, drivers and properties for the world's hyper-rich and hoping to bask vicariously in their wealth.0 -
Scott_P said:
Then look at the Tweet from Tom Newton DunnTykejohnno said:The only headbangers i see are posters who bang on about how wrong we are on leaving,every day.
"We've blown it"
The revealing part of that is that they've blown it by pursuing the purest form of Brexit imaginable
"This is what you voted for"
Umm, no thanks...
He works for a leave side newspaper but I have my doubts he is on the same side,so only natural he doing a scott.0 -
As the outcome that dissatisfies everyone equally, but most people could at a pinch live with, will be crap but not immediately disastrous and won't really work for the UK, EEA plus customs union is, as you say, the sensible choice. I endorse it.RoyalBlue said:
Sensible Leavers and Remainers should get on this train. Both sides can declare a victory of sorts.Scott_P said:0 -
Churchill might have won GE1945 if that damn fool Lynton Crosby hadn't accused Labour of planning a gestapo.Alistair said:0 -
Not so. I think that what seems to be referred to as a soft Brexit will pass the Commons very easily. If that disappoints the Bill Cash's of this world well, we might just have to live with that. Davis already seems to be moving in this direction as does Boris. Hammond is very much of this view and May no longer has the power to overrule her cabinet.AlastairMeeks said:
You still seem to be aiming for Julie Andrews Brexit (raindrops on noses and whiskers on kittens).DavidL said:Brexit, to coin a phrase, means Brexit. That is the priority. To get out of the undemocratic, bureaucratic cabal that is the EU and no longer have a situation where our elected representatives only make a portion of our laws. Anyone who claims that the vote meant more than that is overreaching.
So everything else is pragmatism and up for grabs. We clearly want a free trade deal. We ideally want to keep passporting. We want to remain involved in some aspects of the single market such as patents, air traffic systems, medicine and scientific research. It makes sense to pay an appropriate rate for this. We clearly still need to encourage the skilled and the enthusiastic to come here. We are a million miles from addressing the chronic inadequacies of our education systems and have obvious skill gaps as a result. We want as little disruption to our trade in the short term as possible. Over time I suspect that the EU and EU trade will play a smaller role in our prosperity but that can take care of itself. Is this really going to be that hard?
Theresa May has broadly correctly identified the parameters within which Brexit must be carried out, given how the vote was obtained. That is of course catastrophic for Britain but vox populi vox dei.
Brexit will prove less exciting and less disappointing than most of the current media indicates.
Good song though.0 -
Interest rates are so flaccid you're probably better off with premium bonds. Not that JAMs tend to have the capital for much bondage.Ishmael_Z said:
You can get 2% on a £3000 bond with NSandI. Doesn't that make you feel faint with excitement?Pong said:Off topic - what happened to the governments "help to save" accounts?
Have they lost interest in the jams?
I was hoping doing something for the jams meant the Order of Merit for Bill Drummond.
Course Theresa wants the JAMs on the high street spending their limited funds.0 -
You can't ignore the means by which the vote won just because it doesn't personally motivate you. The vote was won by pandering to xenophobia. That can't just be put to one side as an inconvenience.DavidL said:
Not so. I think that what seems to be referred to as a soft Brexit will pass the Commons very easily. If that disappoints the Bill Cash's of this world well, we might just have to live with that. Davis already seems to be moving in this direction as does Boris. Hammond is very much of this view and May no longer has the power to overrule her cabinet.AlastairMeeks said:
You still seem to be aiming for Julie Andrews Brexit (raindrops on noses and whiskers on kittens).DavidL said:Brexit, to coin a phrase, means Brexit. That is the priority. To get out of the undemocratic, bureaucratic cabal that is the EU and no longer have a situation where our elected representatives only make a portion of our laws. Anyone who claims that the vote meant more than that is overreaching.
So everything else is pragmatism and up for grabs. We clearly want a free trade deal. We ideally want to keep passporting. We want to remain involved in some aspects of the single market such as patents, air traffic systems, medicine and scientific research. It makes sense to pay an appropriate rate for this. We clearly still need to encourage the skilled and the enthusiastic to come here. We are a million miles from addressing the chronic inadequacies of our education systems and have obvious skill gaps as a result. We want as little disruption to our trade in the short term as possible. Over time I suspect that the EU and EU trade will play a smaller role in our prosperity but that can take care of itself. Is this really going to be that hard?
Theresa May has broadly correctly identified the parameters within which Brexit must be carried out, given how the vote was obtained. That is of course catastrophic for Britain but vox populi vox dei.
Brexit will prove less exciting and less disappointing than most of the current media indicates.
Good song though.0 -
Crosby played on the Labour Oswald Mosley links when the youth were all about Attlees speeches at big band festivals.DecrepitJohnL said:
Churchill might have won GE1945 if that damn fool Lynton Crosby hadn't accused Labour of planning a gestapo.Alistair said:0 -
The UK will never be a larger version of Singapore or Hong Kong, London maybe but certainly not the UK as a wholestodge said:Morning all
Interesting topic from Antifrank. I recall similar regarding the new Conservative MPs in 1997, 2001 and 2005 but the first question they were asked was who they were going to back in the leadership election.
I'm intrigued no one has tried to ascertain which way this not insignificant group of the electorate might jump if and when May goes/is forced out (delete as appropriate). Will these new MPs be May's praetorian guard and stand with her till the end just as Portillo did for Thatcher in 1990 ?
We'll see.
The LD intake has more re-treads than a dodgy tyre workshop. Layla Moran might be one to keep an eye on in the coming years.
On matters European, once again the warp and weft of mood, rumour, counter-rumour etc.
To paraphrase Dean Acheson "Great Britain has voluntarily left a failing supra-national political and economic organisation and has yet to find a role". I keep coming back to what I see as the central problem/question/dilemma and it's one of identity. 23/6/16 defined what we didn't want in terms of being part of the European Union but it didn't define what we did want and it was obvious then (and more so now) that those of us who voted LEAVE came to that decision for a myriad of different reasons and with a myriad of expectations for the future.
That debate or conversation has simply not started. May's line which is effectively "don't worry your pretty little heads about it, trust me, I'll sort it out" wasn't good enough to win her a majority and rightly so. It is encumbent on us all to consider what kind of Britain we want in the 2020s. Like many others, I want us to be open, international and global in aspect, culture and outlook but I don't want us simply to be a larger version of Singapore or Hong Kong providing cleaners, drivers and properties for the world's hyper-rich and hoping to bask vicariously in their wealth.0 -
Not so much the borders but certainly amongst the fishing communities of the north east, yes. The idea of the SNP that we were gagging to go back to the catastrophe that has been the Common Fisheries Policy cost Salmond his seat.Sean_F said:
I think you benefitted in the North East and Borders by being the party of Brexit, as well as the party of the Union.DavidL said:Thanks Alastair. I think some of the Scottish Conservative MPs must be genuinely surprised to have ended up in Westminster, a bit like their SNP predecessors in 2015. I think this will make it difficult for them and there has to be a risk that at least one decides it is not for them. With a minority government the pressure to hang in there will be huge of course.
I don't agree with those who claim they owe their seats to Brexit unless that is in the very technical sense that it triggered the election which they won. Brexit only figured in Scotland to the extent that it was used to demonstrate the absurdity of the SNP position, desperate to get out of one Union and yet supposedly desperate to be in another.
For Scotland the election and the Tory success was all about the Union. The key question going forward is whether the formative ideas of the Scottish party becoming independent bear fruit. There is no guarantee that all of the MPs share Ruth's views on this of course but it is possible that by the next election we will have a CDU/CSU relationship. It's an important call for Ruth should that by election come around and she is tempted to the bigger stage.0 -
Possibly... but it was clearly Sir Stafford Cripps' austerity that swung it for Labour.DecrepitJohnL said:
Churchill might have won GE1945 if that damn fool Lynton Crosby hadn't accused Labour of planning a gestapo.Alistair said:0 -
TSE "Salmond filleted".DavidL said:
Not so much the borders but certainly amongst the fishing communities of the north east, yes. The idea of the SNP that we were gagging to go back to the catastrophe that has been the Common Fisheries Policy cost Salmond his seat.Sean_F said:
I think you benefitted in the North East and Borders by being the party of Brexit, as well as the party of the Union.DavidL said:Thanks Alastair. I think some of the Scottish Conservative MPs must be genuinely surprised to have ended up in Westminster, a bit like their SNP predecessors in 2015. I think this will make it difficult for them and there has to be a risk that at least one decides it is not for them. With a minority government the pressure to hang in there will be huge of course.
I don't agree with those who claim they owe their seats to Brexit unless that is in the very technical sense that it triggered the election which they won. Brexit only figured in Scotland to the extent that it was used to demonstrate the absurdity of the SNP position, desperate to get out of one Union and yet supposedly desperate to be in another.
For Scotland the election and the Tory success was all about the Union. The key question going forward is whether the formative ideas of the Scottish party becoming independent bear fruit. There is no guarantee that all of the MPs share Ruth's views on this of course but it is possible that by the next election we will have a CDU/CSU relationship. It's an important call for Ruth should that by election come around and she is tempted to the bigger stage.0 -
Incidentally, EEA won't be "for now". It will be forever. We won't want to go through all this again in five years time. The EU and EFTA won't be interested in a temporary treaty either. Essentially it's a cop out for a country that doesn't know what it wants.FF43 said:
As the outcome that dissatisfies everyone equally, but most people could at a pinch live with, will be crap but not immediately disastrous and won't really work for the UK, EEA plus customs union is, as you say, the sensible choice. I endorse it.RoyalBlue said:
Sensible Leavers and Remainers should get on this train. Both sides can declare a victory of sorts.Scott_P said:0 -
@dngbbc: EU chief negotiator @MichelBarnier "some in UK say you can leave the Single Market and keep all of the benefits. That is not possible."AlastairMeeks said:You still seem to be aiming for Julie Andrews Brexit (raindrops on noses and whiskers on kittens).
https://twitter.com/skzcartoons/status/8828350775494451200 -
We extended the franchise far too far. Country folk should never have been allowed to vote Nor anyone over 70 or with an IQ less than 70. No wonder we're flounderingTykejohnno said:
The only headbangers i see are posters who bang on about how wrong we are on leaving,every day.Scott_P said:
"Sensible" people will be shouted down by the headbangers.RoyalBlue said:Sensible Leavers and Remainers should get on this train. Both sides can declare a victory of sorts.
Buy shares in Betrayal.0 -
And has always required a pool of mobile temporary labour; my mother was one of the many young Londoners who used to travel into Kent during holidays to work picking hops (the origin of the phrase to "hop down to...[Kent]", which has nothing to do with moving about on one leg).CD13 said:Mr Meeks,
You don't pick turnips (as you know, being a six-fingered gentlemen yourself), Incidentally, you don't pick beans, you pull them, but you do pick peas. But that's been automated for many years.
We managed in the sixties, and fewer people are needed now.
Land work isn't happy Dick van Dyke cockneys picking ripe apples in the summer sunshine. It's wet and cold, windy days, some spent indoors. Long hours and boring work.0 -
HAHAHAHA.Roger said:
We extended the franchise far too far. Country folk should never have been allowed to vote Nor anyone over 70 or with an IQ less than 70. No wonder we're flounderingTykejohnno said:
The only headbangers i see are posters who bang on about how wrong we are on leaving,every day.Scott_P said:
"Sensible" people will be shouted down by the headbangers.RoyalBlue said:Sensible Leavers and Remainers should get on this train. Both sides can declare a victory of sorts.
Buy shares in Betrayal.
Self aware much?0 -
-
Why not? Some idiots said idiotic things. And some of the leavers weren't very sensible either. All we have is the result and that needs to be respected. How is for the politicians to sort out but in the way that is best for us is the obvious answer. Listen to Hammond. He is our de facto PM at the moment.AlastairMeeks said:
You can't ignore the means by which the vote won just because it doesn't personally motivate you. The vote was won by pandering to xenophobia. That can't just be put to one side as an inconvenience.DavidL said:
Not so. I think that what seems to be referred to as a soft Brexit will pass the Commons very easily. If that disappoints the Bill Cash's of this world well, we might just have to live with that. Davis already seems to be moving in this direction as does Boris. Hammond is very much of this view and May no longer has the power to overrule her cabinet.AlastairMeeks said:
You still seem to be aiming for Julie Andrews Brexit (raindrops on noses and whiskers on kittens).DavidL said:Brexit, to coin a phrase, means Brexit. That is the priority. To get out of the undemocratic, bureaucratic cabal that is the EU and no longer have a situation where our elected representatives only make a portion of our laws. Anyone who claims that the vote meant more than that is overreaching.
So everything else is pragmatism and up for grabs. We clearly want a free trade deal. We ideally want to keep passporting. We want to remain involved in some aspects of the single market such as patents, air traffic systems, medicine and scientific research. It makes sense to pay an appropriate rate for this. We clearly still need to encourage the skilled and the enthusiastic to come here. We are a million miles from addressing the chronic inadequacies of our education systems and have obvious skill gaps as a result. We want as little disruption to our trade in the short term as possible. Over time I suspect that the EU and EU trade will play a smaller role in our prosperity but that can take care of itself. Is this really going to be that hard?
Theresa May has broadly correctly identified the parameters within which Brexit must be carried out, given how the vote was obtained. That is of course catastrophic for Britain but vox populi vox dei.
Brexit will prove less exciting and less disappointing than most of the current media indicates.
Good song though.0 -
And would make the sensible course of rejoining once Brexit is discredited so very much easier.FF43 said:
Incidentally, EEA won't be "for now". It will be forever. We won't want to go through all this again in five years time. The EU and EFTA won't be interested in a temporary treaty either. Essentially it's a cop out for a country that doesn't know what it wants.FF43 said:
As the outcome that dissatisfies everyone equally, but most people could at a pinch live with, will be crap but not immediately disastrous and won't really work for the UK, EEA plus customs union is, as you say, the sensible choice. I endorse it.RoyalBlue said:
Sensible Leavers and Remainers should get on this train. Both sides can declare a victory of sorts.Scott_P said:0 -
