politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » If this story is right then you should take the 4/1 on Mrs May
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Scary the end line.....`signing a big cheque so the new leader can start fresh`
When is the Tory establishment going to discuss how `signing a big cheque` is going to look after 7 years of Tories justifying `austerity`.Whoever the new leader might be it is difficult to think they can dodge the public reaction.Most people did not vote Brexit realising there was likely to be a big divorce bill of maybe a 100 billion as part of it.0 -
Public sector pay has risen below private sector pay for years now and job cuts in the public sector due to austerity have ended the idea of a guaranteed job for life and even in the public sector final salary pensions are in declineMorris_Dancer said:Mr. HYUFD, I'd have more sympathy with that line on pay if the public sector had pay cuts when the private sector does, or had comparable pensions and job security.
I'm not saying a pay rise above 1% (on average, across the board) is necessarily the wrong move, just responding to the suggestion public sector pay should rise with private sector pay.0 -
If they have transformed the party leftwards, and the message is coherent and positive, then it will depend on whether the planet is still in the mood to risk it for a biscuit come 2022. If it is, Lab will get in.Richard_Nabavi said:
The Conservatives will be extremely vulnerable at the next election if Labour offers an alternative government-in-waiting. But that doesn't look even remotely likely at the moment.SouthamObserver said:Given the absolute shambles the government is making of Brexit and the paucity of Tory talent out there (Raab, really??), it is a possibility. But I am afraid I struggle with the idea that if the Tories get their act together constituencies that voted Tory in 2015 and 2017 are suddenly going to embrace the kind of populist socialism advocated by those who now control the Labour party. This country has never swung behind the left in that way before. The utter uselessness of Boris & co might persuade it to, but I am far from convinced.
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I agree. But Corbyn cannot form a government in waiting because it would mean handing dozens of positions of responsibility to soft left and moderate Labour MPs - and that is something he and, more importantly, his advisers cannot countenance. In the same way, he would not actually be able to form a government either. Thus, the only logical way for things to go from here is for mass deselection of Labour MPs. And doing that is no way to win an election, though it may kick-start a new party.Richard_Nabavi said:
The Conservatives will be extremely vulnerable at the next election if Labour offers an alternative government-in-waiting. But that doesn't look even remotely likely at the moment.SouthamObserver said:Given the absolute shambles the government is making of Brexit and the paucity of Tory talent out there (Raab, really??), it is a possibility. But I am afraid I struggle with the idea that if the Tories get their act together constituencies that voted Tory in 2015 and 2017 are suddenly going to embrace the kind of populist socialism advocated by those who now control the Labour party. This country has never swung behind the left in that way before. The utter uselessness of Boris & co might persuade it to, but I am far from convinced.
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No Tory leader will pay 100 billion for a dealMetatron said:Scary the end line.....`signing a big cheque so the new leader can start fresh`
When is the Tory establishment going to discuss how `signing a big cheque` is going to look after 7 years of Tories justifying `austerity`.Whoever the new leader might be it is difficult to think they can dodge the public reaction.Most people did not vote Brexit realising there was likely to be a big divorce bill of maybe a 100 billion as part of it.0 -
Nope - look at the turncoats. Politics is about winning, as Jezza has found out recently (who knew?) and his lackey "hard right" MPs will fall in behind him if they get a whiff of power. They were only upset because they thought this was impossible. It is now very much in sight.SouthamObserver said:
I agree. But Corbyn cannot form a government in waiting because it would mean handing dozens of positions of responsibility to soft left and moderate Labour MPs - and that is something he and, more importantly, his advisers cannot countenance. In the same way, he would not actually be able to form a government either. Thus, the only logical way for things to go from here is for mass deselection of Labour MPs. And doing that is no way to win an election, though it may kick-start a new party.Richard_Nabavi said:
The Conservatives will be extremely vulnerable at the next election if Labour offers an alternative government-in-waiting. But that doesn't look even remotely likely at the moment.SouthamObserver said:Given the absolute shambles the government is making of Brexit and the paucity of Tory talent out there (Raab, really??), it is a possibility. But I am afraid I struggle with the idea that if the Tories get their act together constituencies that voted Tory in 2015 and 2017 are suddenly going to embrace the kind of populist socialism advocated by those who now control the Labour party. This country has never swung behind the left in that way before. The utter uselessness of Boris & co might persuade it to, but I am far from convinced.
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Mr. HYUFD, those are perfectly legitimate points (I was only disagreeing with the idea private and public sector pay should be treated in a similar way).
Mr. Metatron, you're not the Youtuber of the same name, are you? I realise it's unlikely, but thought I'd ask (I just enjoyed a video on the evolution of the shield by him/you).0 -
Thanks and I think we are not too far apart on thisMorris_Dancer said:Mr. HYUFD, those are perfectly legitimate points (I was only disagreeing with the idea private and public sector pay should be treated in a similar way).
Mr. Metatron, you're not the Youtuber of the same name, are you? I realise it's unlikely, but thought I'd ask (I just enjoyed a video on the evolution of the shield by him/you).0 -
Wow! A Standard front page not about Westminster!!! French politics instead...
Really has its finger on the pulse of everyday London
https://twitter.com/george_osborne/status/8818282282389053500 -
The point is that Corbyn does not want them to fall in behind him. He does not trust them and does not share their beliefs.TOPPING said:
Nope - look at the turncoats. Politics is about winning, as Jezza has found out recently (who knew?) and his lackey "hard right" MPs will fall in behind him if they get a whiff of power. They were only upset because they thought this was impossible. It is now very much in sight.SouthamObserver said:
I agree. But Corbyn cannot form a government in waiting because it would mean handing dozens of positions of responsibility to soft left and moderate Labour MPs - and that is something he and, more importantly, his advisers cannot countenance. In the same way, he would not actually be able to form a government either. Thus, the only logical way for things to go from here is for mass deselection of Labour MPs. And doing that is no way to win an election, though it may kick-start a new party.Richard_Nabavi said:
The Conservatives will be extremely vulnerable at the next election if Labour offers an alternative government-in-waiting. But that doesn't look even remotely likely at the moment.SouthamObserver said:Given the absolute shambles the government is making of Brexit and the paucity of Tory talent out there (Raab, really??), it is a possibility. But I am afraid I struggle with the idea that if the Tories get their act together constituencies that voted Tory in 2015 and 2017 are suddenly going to embrace the kind of populist socialism advocated by those who now control the Labour party. This country has never swung behind the left in that way before. The utter uselessness of Boris & co might persuade it to, but I am far from convinced.
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That reads like there was also a plot to kill Sebastian Coe...isam said:Wow! A Standard front page not about Westminster!!! French politics instead...
Really has its finger on the pulse of everyday London
https://twitter.com/george_osborne/status/8818282282389053500 -
Lots of private sector have not had pay rises for many years never mind 1% and have significantly worse pensions and conditionsHYUFD said:
Public sector pay has risen below private sector pay for years now and job cuts in the public sector due to austerity have ended the idea of a guaranteed job for life and even in the public sector final salary pensions are in declineMorris_Dancer said:Mr. HYUFD, I'd have more sympathy with that line on pay if the public sector had pay cuts when the private sector does, or had comparable pensions and job security.
I'm not saying a pay rise above 1% (on average, across the board) is necessarily the wrong move, just responding to the suggestion public sector pay should rise with private sector pay.0 -
I thoroughly agree with those comments. It is definitely the logical position, and one I have struggled to put together myself. The only thing I would say is that the labour brand is stronger than I ever would have thought, the other thing is that the entire narrative of any future election would be different if Corbyn was in with a chance of victory. Look at the last election, and I rated Milliband more highly than Corbyn. Lastly it makes no sense to anyone but Corbyn to increase votes in places where they don't help win in a FPTP election.SouthamObserver said:
I agree. But Corbyn cannot form a government in waiting because it would mean handing dozens of positions of responsibility to soft left and moderate Labour MPs - and that is something he and, more importantly, his advisers cannot countenance. In the same way, he would not actually be able to form a government either. Thus, the only logical way for things to go from here is for mass deselection of Labour MPs. And doing that is no way to win an election, though it may kick-start a new party.Richard_Nabavi said:
The Conservatives will be extremely vulnerable at the next election if Labour offers an alternative government-in-waiting. But that doesn't look even remotely likely at the moment.SouthamObserver said:Given the absolute shambles the government is making of Brexit and the paucity of Tory talent out there (Raab, really??), it is a possibility. But I am afraid I struggle with the idea that if the Tories get their act together constituencies that voted Tory in 2015 and 2017 are suddenly going to embrace the kind of populist socialism advocated by those who now control the Labour party. This country has never swung behind the left in that way before. The utter uselessness of Boris & co might persuade it to, but I am far from convinced.
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We do indeed need those people. We also need other people to earn the money to help fund those public sector wages unless we just start the printing presses and reduce Sterling to Monopoly money.HYUFD said:
We need teachers, doctors, police, nurses etc and if we don't pay them even in line with average wages we won't get them end of.David_Evershed said:
Pay rises can only be justified by increased performance. This might be better quality of work, wider skills or improved productivity but not just because of inflation or somebody else's pay increase umless necessary because of market forces.HYUFD said:
Public sector pay could at least rise in line with average pay even if not in line with inflation after years of public sector pay capsDavid_Evershed said:Pay rises are a negotiation.
By Gove and Johnson campaigning to give pay increases to the public sector weakens the Chancellrs negotiating position - and ai at time when the country has a massive deficit.
There is no money left. How many public sector workers will need to be sacked to pay for the increased salaries of those remaining?
Admittedly we need improved productivity in public and private sectors. But pay rises should follow increased productivity - not whim.0 -
Policy Exchange:. This report argues that simply sitting on the side lines and allowing the EU to negotiate for Ireland is untenable. Former Irish Ambassador and senior Irish civil servant, Dr Ray Bassett, argues that in the event of the UK leaving the Customs Union and the Single Market, Ireland’s interests would be better served by opting out of formal membership of the EU, remaining in a customs union with the UK and negotiating free trade arrangements, on the lines of the EFTA countries, with the remaining members of the EU.
https://policyexchange.org.uk/publication/after-brexit-will-ireland-be-next-to-exit/0 -
Ha, yes it does!TOPPING said:
That reads like there was also a plot to kill Sebastian Coe...isam said:Wow! A Standard front page not about Westminster!!! French politics instead...
Really has its finger on the pulse of everyday London
https://twitter.com/george_osborne/status/8818282282389053500 -
There are hundreds of thousands of French people living in London, a large proportion of them the kind of high earners that Standard advertisers (especially the property ones) are after. It is also a great story - and headline.isam said:Wow! A Standard front page not about Westminster!!! French politics instead...
Really has its finger on the pulse of everyday London
https://twitter.com/george_osborne/status/881828228238905350
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Surprised he didn't find a way to blame Theresa May...isam said:Wow! A Standard front page not about Westminster!!! French politics instead...
Really has its finger on the pulse of everyday London
https://twitter.com/george_osborne/status/881828228238905350
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We shall see and I do note of course the reshuffle now.SouthamObserver said:
The point is that Corbyn does not want them to fall in behind him. He does not trust them and does not share their beliefs.TOPPING said:
Nope - look at the turncoats. Politics is about winning, as Jezza has found out recently (who knew?) and his lackey "hard right" MPs will fall in behind him if they get a whiff of power. They were only upset because they thought this was impossible. It is now very much in sight.SouthamObserver said:
I agree. But Corbyn cannot form a government in waiting because it would mean handing dozens of positions of responsibility to soft left and moderate Labour MPs - and that is something he and, more importantly, his advisers cannot countenance. In the same way, he would not actually be able to form a government either. Thus, the only logical way for things to go from here is for mass deselection of Labour MPs. And doing that is no way to win an election, though it may kick-start a new party.Richard_Nabavi said:
The Conservatives will be extremely vulnerable at the next election if Labour offers an alternative government-in-waiting. But that doesn't look even remotely likely at the moment.SouthamObserver said:Given the absolute shambles the government is making of Brexit and the paucity of Tory talent out there (Raab, really??), it is a possibility. But I am afraid I struggle with the idea that if the Tories get their act together constituencies that voted Tory in 2015 and 2017 are suddenly going to embrace the kind of populist socialism advocated by those who now control the Labour party. This country has never swung behind the left in that way before. The utter uselessness of Boris & co might persuade it to, but I am far from convinced.
But we said that take out Corbyn and Lab would have been on for a 50 seat majority. Corbyn stayed and "won" a hung parliament. At some point those hard right Lab MPs must wonder if they are allowed to dream the undreamable - a socialist-led country.
It really is make your mind up time for them. Because never has the charge of being "Tory lite" been truer.0 -
Got my hopes up too....TOPPING said:
That reads like there was also a plot to kill Sebastian Coe...isam said:Wow! A Standard front page not about Westminster!!! French politics instead...
Really has its finger on the pulse of everyday London
https://twitter.com/george_osborne/status/8818282282389053500 -
Quite right, yes.malcolmg said:
Lots of private sector have not had pay rises for many years never mind 1% and have significantly worse pensions and conditionsHYUFD said:
Public sector pay has risen below private sector pay for years now and job cuts in the public sector due to austerity have ended the idea of a guaranteed job for life and even in the public sector final salary pensions are in declineMorris_Dancer said:Mr. HYUFD, I'd have more sympathy with that line on pay if the public sector had pay cuts when the private sector does, or had comparable pensions and job security.
I'm not saying a pay rise above 1% (on average, across the board) is necessarily the wrong move, just responding to the suggestion public sector pay should rise with private sector pay.0 -
Yes. Although Theresa is already a lame duck after the election so I doubt it would make much difference...David_Evershed said:Any PM announcing when they will step down becomes a lame duck from that moment.
Think Blair, Cameron and the second term US Presidents.0 -
Who are the people supposed to be?Scott_P said:0 -
This is why we have the Oxford comma.TOPPING said:
That reads like there was also a plot to kill Sebastian Coe...isam said:Wow! A Standard front page not about Westminster!!! French politics instead...
Really has its finger on the pulse of everyday London
https://twitter.com/george_osborne/status/8818282282389053500 -
The Standard front page seems to be about politics far more than it is issues facing London specifically.SouthamObserver said:
There are hundreds of thousands of French people living in London, a large proportion of them the kind of high earners that Standard advertisers (especially the property ones) are after. It is also a great story - and headline.isam said:Wow! A Standard front page not about Westminster!!! French politics instead...
Really has its finger on the pulse of everyday London
https://twitter.com/george_osborne/status/8818282282389053500 -
I bloody love the Oxford Comma - it seems that GO is struggling, however, with his plus signs and ampersands.TheScreamingEagles said:
This is why we have the Oxford comma.TOPPING said:
That reads like there was also a plot to kill Sebastian Coe...isam said:Wow! A Standard front page not about Westminster!!! French politics instead...
Really has its finger on the pulse of everyday London
https://twitter.com/george_osborne/status/8818282282389053500 -
Labour is tribal and they have jobs. They'll only start thinking radically when they are deselected. Until then, Labour will bob along never looking like a government in waiting. For people like me - pro-redistribution, pro-capitalist, pro-single market, pro-NATO - it's a whole lot easier. We just won't vote Labour anymore - unless the Tories do something utterly stupid like putting Boris or Gove in charge.TOPPING said:
We shall see and I do note of course the reshuffle now.SouthamObserver said:
The point is that Corbyn does not want them to fall in behind him. He does not trust them and does not share their beliefs.TOPPING said:
Nope - look at the turncoats. Politics is about winning, as Jezza has found out recently (who knew?) and his lackey "hard right" MPs will fall in behind him if they get a whiff of power. They were only upset because they thought this was impossible. It is now very much in sight.SouthamObserver said:
I agree. But Corbyn cannot form a government in waiting because it would mean handing dozens of positions of responsibility to soft left and moderate Labour MPs - and that is something he and, more importantly, his advisers cannot countenance. In the same way, he would not actually be able to form a government either. Thus, the only logical way for things to go from here is for mass deselection of Labour MPs. And doing that is no way to win an election, though it may kick-start a new party.Richard_Nabavi said:
The Conservatives will be extremely vulnerable at the next election if Labour offers an alternative government-in-waiting. But that doesn't look even remotely likely at the moment.SouthamObserver said:Given the absolute shambles the government is making of Brexit and the paucity of Tory talent out there (Raab, really??), it is a possibility. But I am afraid I struggle with the idea that if the Tories get their act together constituencies that voted Tory in 2015 and 2017 are suddenly going to embrace the kind of populist socialism advocated by those who now control the Labour party. This country has never swung behind the left in that way before. The utter uselessness of Boris & co might persuade it to, but I am far from convinced.
But we said that take out Corbyn and Lab would have been on for a 50 seat majority. Corbyn stayed and "won" a hung parliament. At some point those hard right Lab MPs must wonder if they are allowed to dream the undreamable - a socialist-led country.
It really is make your mind up time for them. Because never has the charge of being "Tory lite" been truer.
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I bloody love the Oxford comma too. Big fan.TOPPING said:
I bloody love the Oxford Comma - it seems that GO is struggling, however, with his plus signs and ampersands.TheScreamingEagles said:
This is why we have the Oxford comma.TOPPING said:
That reads like there was also a plot to kill Sebastian Coe...isam said:Wow! A Standard front page not about Westminster!!! French politics instead...
Really has its finger on the pulse of everyday London
https://twitter.com/george_osborne/status/881828228238905350
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Utter nonsense, give me one single example of a private sector company that hasn't given out any pay rises since 2010 when austerity began. Remember the Living Wage has been introduced since then.GeoffM said:
Quite right, yes.malcolmg said:
Lots of private sector have not had pay rises for many years never mind 1% and have significantly worse pensions and conditionsHYUFD said:
Public sector pay has risen below private sector pay for years now and job cuts in the public sector due to austerity have ended the idea of a guaranteed job for life and even in the public sector final salary pensions are in declineMorris_Dancer said:Mr. HYUFD, I'd have more sympathy with that line on pay if the public sector had pay cuts when the private sector does, or had comparable pensions and job security.
I'm not saying a pay rise above 1% (on average, across the board) is necessarily the wrong move, just responding to the suggestion public sector pay should rise with private sector pay.0 -
But at the moment *not* thinking radically (ie deposing their leader) = thinking radically (ie sleepwalking into Labour becoming a socialist party).SouthamObserver said:
Labour is tribal and they have jobs. They'll only start thinking radically when they are deselected. Until then, Labour will bob along never looking like a government in waiting. For people like me - pro-redistribution, pro-capitalist, pro-single market, pro-NATO - it's a whole lot easier. We just won't vote Labour anymore - unless the Tories do something utterly stupid like putting Boris or Gove in charge.TOPPING said:
We shall see and I do note of course the reshuffle now.SouthamObserver said:
The point is that Corbyn does not want them to fall in behind him. He does not trust them and does not share their beliefs.TOPPING said:
Nope - look at the turncoats. Politics is about winning, as Jezza has found out recently (who knew?) and his lackey "hard right" MPs will fall in behind him if they get a whiff of power. They were only upset because they thought this was impossible. It is now very much in sight.SouthamObserver said:
I agree. But Corbyn cannot form a government in waiting because it would mean handing dozens of positions of responsibility to soft left and moderate Labour MPs - and that is something he and, more importantly, his advisers cannot countenance. In the same way, he would not actually be able to form a government either. Thus, the only logical way for things to go from here is for mass deselection of Labour MPs. And doing that is no way to win an election, though it may kick-start a new party.Richard_Nabavi said:
The Conservatives will be extremely vulnerable at the next election if Labour offers an alternative government-in-waiting. But that doesn't look even remotely likely at the moment.SouthamObserver said:Given the absolute shambles the government is making of Brexit and the paucity of Tory talent out there (Raab, really??), it is a possibility. But I am afraid I struggle with the idea that if the Tories get their act together constituencies tha
But we said that take out Corbyn and Lab would have been on for a 50 seat majority. Corbyn stayed and "won" a hung parliament. At some point those hard right Lab MPs must wonder if they are allowed to dream the undreamable - a socialist-led country.
It really is make your mind up time for them. Because never has the charge of being "Tory lite" been truer.0 -
Too much time at the Treasury = forgetting how to use it & relying on symbols, clearly....TheScreamingEagles said:
This is why we have the Oxford comma.TOPPING said:
That reads like there was also a plot to kill Sebastian Coe...isam said:Wow! A Standard front page not about Westminster!!! French politics instead...
Really has its finger on the pulse of everyday London
https://twitter.com/george_osborne/status/8818282282389053500 -
Twitter, and its 140 character limit, is the enemy of good grammar.Mortimer said:
Too much time at the Treasury = forgetting how to use it & relying on symbols, clearly....TheScreamingEagles said:
This is why we have the Oxford comma.TOPPING said:
That reads like there was also a plot to kill Sebastian Coe...isam said:Wow! A Standard front page not about Westminster!!! French politics instead...
Really has its finger on the pulse of everyday London
https://twitter.com/george_osborne/status/8818282282389053500 -
The urban legend is that London is the sixth biggest French city in terms of resident population. It isn't really - the myth is built on the way the numbers are put together.SouthamObserver said:
There are hundreds of thousands of French people living in London, a large proportion of them the kind of high earners that Standard advertisers (especially the property ones) are after. It is also a great story - and headline.isam said:Wow! A Standard front page not about Westminster!!! French politics instead...
Really has its finger on the pulse of everyday London
twitter.com/george_osborne/status/881828228238905350
But yes, you're right, it's a legitimate demographic for the ES to keep in touch with,
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That's not new under Osborne - in its news reporting, the Standard has always seen itself as a national newspaper (except at mayoral election time). It's only on the inside and sports pages that its primary focus becomes about London.isam said:
The Standard front page seems to be about politics far more than it is issues facing London specifically.SouthamObserver said:
There are hundreds of thousands of French people living in London, a large proportion of them the kind of high earners that Standard advertisers (especially the property ones) are after. It is also a great story - and headline.isam said:Wow! A Standard front page not about Westminster!!! French politics instead...
Really has its finger on the pulse of everyday London
https://twitter.com/george_osborne/status/881828228238905350
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The leader is unassailable.TOPPING said:
But at the moment *not* thinking radically (ie deposing their leader) = thinking radically (ie sleepwalking into Labour becoming a socialist party).SouthamObserver said:
Labour is tribal and they have jobs. They'll only start thinking radically when they are deselected. Until then, Labour will bob along never looking like a government in waiting. For people like me - pro-redistribution, pro-capitalist, pro-single market, pro-NATO - it's a whole lot easier. We just won't vote Labour anymore - unless the Tories do something utterly stupid like putting Boris or Gove in charge.TOPPING said:
We shall see and I do note of course the reshuffle now.SouthamObserver said:
The point is that Corbyn does not want them to fall in behind him. He does not trust them and does not share their beliefs.TOPPING said:
Nope - look at the turncoats. Politics is about winning, as Jezza has found out recently (who knew?) and his lackey "hard right" MPs will fall in behind him if they get a whiff of power. They were only upset because they thought this was impossible. It is now very much in sight.SouthamObserver said:
I agree. But Corbyn cannot form a government in waiting because it would mean handing dozens of positions of responsibility to soft left and moderate Labour MPs - and that is something he and, more importantly, his advisers cannot countenance. In the same way, he would not actually be able to form a government either. Thus, the only logical way for things to go from here is for mass deselection of Labour MPs. And doing that is no way to win an election, though it may kick-start a new party.Richard_Nabavi said:
The Conservatives will be extremely vulnerable at the next election if Labour offers an alternative government-in-waiting. But that doesn't look even remotely likely at the moment.SouthamObserver said:Given the absolute shambles the government is making of Brexit and the paucity of Tory talent out there (Raab, really??), it is a possibility. But I am afraid I struggle with the idea that if the Tories get their act together constituencies tha
But we said that take out Corbyn and Lab would have been on for a 50 seat majority. Corbyn stayed and "won" a hung parliament. At some point those hard right Lab MPs must wonder if they are allowed to dream the undreamable - a socialist-led country.
It really is make your mind up time for them. Because never has the charge of being "Tory lite" been truer.
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What about "This book is dedicated to my mother, Ayn Rand, and God"?TheScreamingEagles said:
I bloody love the Oxford comma too. Big fan.TOPPING said:
I bloody love the Oxford Comma - it seems that GO is struggling, however, with his plus signs and ampersands.TheScreamingEagles said:
This is why we have the Oxford comma.TOPPING said:
That reads like there was also a plot to kill Sebastian Coe...isam said:Wow! A Standard front page not about Westminster!!! French politics instead...
Really has its finger on the pulse of everyday London
https://twitter.com/george_osborne/status/8818282282389053500 -
That is my point. He is unassailable. Hitherto, radical thinking by centrist Lab MPs would have been to depose him. But they can't now. So they will do nothing as he pushes further left and either be purged or not, but they will remain as MPs, as they realise they might get into power at the next GE. So actually, by doing nothing they are acting radically as they will see their Labour Party push to the far left.SouthamObserver said:
The leader is unassailable.TOPPING said:
But at the moment *not* thinking radically (ie deposing their leader) = thinking radically (ie sleepwalking into Labour becoming a socialist party).SouthamObserver said:
Labour is tribal and they have jobs. They'll only start thinking radically when they are deselected. Until then, Labour will bob along never looking like a government in waiting. For people like me - pro-redistribution, pro-capitalist, pro-single market, pro-NATO - it's a whole lot easier. We just won't vote Labour anymore - unless the Tories do something utterly stupid like putting Boris or Gove in charge.TOPPING said:
We shall see and I do note of course the reshuffle now.SouthamObserver said:
The point is that Corbyn does not want them to fall in behind him. He does not trust them and does not share their beliefs.TOPPING said:
Nope - look at the turncoats. Politics is about winnsight.SouthamObserver said:
I agree. But Corbyn cannot form a party.Richard_Nabavi said:
The Conservatives will be extremely vulnerable at the next election if Labour offers an alternative government-in-waiting. But that doesn't look even remotely likely at the moment.SouthamObserver said:Given the absolute shambles the government is making of Brexit and the paucity of Tory talent out there (Raab, really??), it is a possibility. But I am afraid I struggle with the idea that if the Tories get their act together constituencies tha
But we said that take out Corbyn and Lab would have been on for a 50 seat majority. Corbyn stayed and "won" a hung parliament. At some point those hard right Lab MPs must wonder if they are allowed to dream the undreamable - a socialist-led country.
It really is make your mind up time for them. Because never has the charge of being "Tory lite" been truer.
Is what I meant!0 -
In fact, even that Nelson Mandela example would be ambiguous with an Oxford commaStereotomy said:
What about "This book is dedicated to my mother, Ayn Rand, and God"?TheScreamingEagles said:
I bloody love the Oxford comma too. Big fan.TOPPING said:
I bloody love the Oxford Comma - it seems that GO is struggling, however, with his plus signs and ampersands.TheScreamingEagles said:
This is why we have the Oxford comma.TOPPING said:
That reads like there was also a plot to kill Sebastian Coe...isam said:Wow! A Standard front page not about Westminster!!! French politics instead...
Really has its finger on the pulse of everyday London
https://twitter.com/george_osborne/status/8818282282389053500 -
Yes no money tree available, the private sector have to be robbed to fund all the largesse. The government has NO money of its own.Beverley_C said:
We do indeed need those people. We also need other people to earn the money to help fund those public sector wages unless we just start the printing presses and reduce Sterling to Monopoly money.HYUFD said:
We need teachers, doctors, police, nurses etc and if we don't pay them even in line with average wages we won't get them end of.David_Evershed said:
Pay rises can only be justified by increased performance. This might be better quality of work, wider skills or improved productivity but not just because of inflation or somebody else's pay increase umless necessary because of market forces.HYUFD said:
Public sector pay could at least rise in line with average pay even if not in line with inflation after years of public sector pay capsDavid_Evershed said:Pay rises are a negotiation.
By Gove and Johnson campaigning to give pay increases to the public sector weakens the Chancellrs negotiating position - and ai at time when the country has a massive deficit.
There is no money left. How many public sector workers will need to be sacked to pay for the increased salaries of those remaining?
Admittedly we need improved productivity in public and private sectors. But pay rises should follow increased productivity - not whim.0 -
I certainly know people in a Global company who have not had a pay rise since 2010. Not all companies pay everybody a pay rise , it is done individually. Large swathes have not had rises since the crash.not_on_fire said:
Utter nonsense, give me one single example of a private sector company that hasn't given out any pay rises since 2010 when austerity began. Remember the Living Wage has been introduced since then.GeoffM said:
Quite right, yes.malcolmg said:
Lots of private sector have not had pay rises for many years never mind 1% and have significantly worse pensions and conditionsHYUFD said:
Public sector pay has risen below private sector pay for years now and job cuts in the public sector due to austerity have ended the idea of a guaranteed job for life and even in the public sector final salary pensions are in declineMorris_Dancer said:Mr. HYUFD, I'd have more sympathy with that line on pay if the public sector had pay cuts when the private sector does, or had comparable pensions and job security.
I'm not saying a pay rise above 1% (on average, across the board) is necessarily the wrong move, just responding to the suggestion public sector pay should rise with private sector pay.
PS , not everybody paid below the living wage and many many still do not actually pay it today. Perhaps you meant the minimum wage.0 -
Average wages across the UK are rising at 2.1%, well above the 1% in the public sector even if below the 2.3% inflation ratemalcolmg said:
Lots of private sector have not had pay rises for many years never mind 1% and have significantly worse pensions and conditionsHYUFD said:
Public sector pay has risen below private sector pay for years now and job cuts in the public sector due to austerity have ended the idea of a guaranteed job for life and even in the public sector final salary pensions are in declineMorris_Dancer said:Mr. HYUFD, I'd have more sympathy with that line on pay if the public sector had pay cuts when the private sector does, or had comparable pensions and job security.
I'm not saying a pay rise above 1% (on average, across the board) is necessarily the wrong move, just responding to the suggestion public sector pay should rise with private sector pay.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-399457820 -
Yeah I couldn't really remember if this was a new thing or had always been the case. I guess I see its front page more now as it is posted on here every day! (today by me)SouthamObserver said:
That's not new under Osborne - in its news reporting, the Standard has always seen itself as a national newspaper (except at mayoral election time). It's only on the inside and sports pages that its primary focus becomes about London.isam said:
The Standard front page seems to be about politics far more than it is issues facing London specifically.SouthamObserver said:
There are hundreds of thousands of French people living in London, a large proportion of them the kind of high earners that Standard advertisers (especially the property ones) are after. It is also a great story - and headline.isam said:Wow! A Standard front page not about Westminster!!! French politics instead...
Really has its finger on the pulse of everyday London
https://twitter.com/george_osborne/status/881828228238905350
The acid attack on the muslim couple and the rise in knife crime are probably more relevant stories to London, and deserving of a front page IMO0 -
You are basically a Thatcherite Scottish Nationalist!malcolmg said:
Yes no money tree available, the private sector have to be robbed to fund all the largesse. The government has NO money of its own.Beverley_C said:
We do indeed need those people. We also need other people to earn the money to help fund those public sector wages unless we just start the printing presses and reduce Sterling to Monopoly money.HYUFD said:
We need teachers, doctors, police, nurses etc and if we don't pay them even in line with average wages we won't get them end of.David_Evershed said:
Pay rises can only be justified by increased performance. This might be better quality of work, wider skills or improved productivity but not just because of inflation or somebody else's pay increase umless necessary because of market forces.HYUFD said:
Public sector pay could at least rise in line with average pay even if not in line with inflation after years of public sector pay capsDavid_Evershed said:Pay rises are a negotiation.
By Gove and Johnson campaigning to give pay increases to the public sector weakens the Chancellrs negotiating position - and ai at time when the country has a massive deficit.
There is no money left. How many public sector workers will need to be sacked to pay for the increased salaries of those remaining?
Admittedly we need improved productivity in public and private sectors. But pay rises should follow increased productivity - not whim.0 -
Oh right, nice one, Much appreciated. I actually thought of Boris because of the hair - but I disregarded him because I didn't guess the associated story either. Cheers!HYUFD said:0 -
Mr. HYUFD, Mr. G is a Thatcherite Uber Realistic Nationalist Independence Patriot.
Or TURNIP, for short.0 -
One surely doesn’t let a trainee journalist, however exalted, anywhere near proper sub-editing!TOPPING said:
I bloody love the Oxford Comma - it seems that GO is struggling, however, with his plus signs and ampersands.TheScreamingEagles said:
This is why we have the Oxford comma.TOPPING said:
That reads like there was also a plot to kill Sebastian Coe...isam said:Wow! A Standard front page not about Westminster!!! French politics instead...
Really has its finger on the pulse of everyday London
https://twitter.com/george_osborne/status/8818282282389053500 -
Indeed. HYUFD talks on the next comment about "average" without understanding that.malcolmg said:
I certainly know people in a Global company who have not had a pay rise since 2010. Not all companies pay everybody a pay rise , it is done individually. Large swathes have not had rises since the crash.not_on_fire said:
Utter nonsense, give me one single example of a private sector company that hasn't given out any pay rises since 2010 when austerity began. Remember the Living Wage has been introduced since then.GeoffM said:
Quite right, yes.malcolmg said:
Lots of private sector have not had pay rises for many years never mind 1% and have significantly worse pensions and conditionsHYUFD said:
Public sector pay has risen below private sector pay for years now and job cuts in the public sector due to austerity have ended the idea of a guaranteed job for life and even in the public sector final salary pensions are in declineMorris_Dancer said:Mr. HYUFD, I'd have more sympathy with that line on pay if the public sector had pay cuts when the private sector does, or had comparable pensions and job security.
I'm not saying a pay rise above 1% (on average, across the board) is necessarily the wrong move, just responding to the suggestion public sector pay should rise with private sector pay.
PS , not everybody paid below the living wage and many many still do not actually pay it today. Perhaps you meant the minimum wage.
Rather like you I'm familiar with some specific non-"average" examples as well including two clients of mine. They won't remain my clients for long if I give their names on a public forum though. Really - 'not_on_fire' is an idiot to ask for that.0 -
@PickardJE: Riddle for Brexiteers:
UK car industry investment down 75% in a year
Output of UK cars down 10% May-May
What's the innocent explanation?0 -
Errrm, I think all three sentences are there as examples of ambiguity.Stereotomy said:
In fact, even that Nelson Mandela example would be ambiguous with an Oxford commaStereotomy said:
What about "This book is dedicated to my mother, Ayn Rand, and God"?TheScreamingEagles said:
I bloody love the Oxford comma too. Big fan.TOPPING said:
I bloody love the Oxford Comma - it seems that GO is struggling, however, with his plus signs and ampersands.TheScreamingEagles said:
This is why we have the Oxford comma.TOPPING said:
That reads like there was also a plot to kill Sebastian Coe...isam said:Wow! A Standard front page not about Westminster!!! French politics instead...
Really has its finger on the pulse of everyday London
https://twitter.com/george_osborne/status/8818282282389053500 -
For the Irish passport applicants:
For those in the UK, who would have looked to Ireland as some form of benign EU sanctuary, the actual position is not nearly as positive. The huge choice facing Ireland is whether, given the circumstances, the country can live with the likely post Brexit arrangements and so stay a full member of the European Union; or whether a radically different relationship with the EU is required, including the possibility of an Irish departure from formal membership, an Irexit. To date, there has been precious little serious debate on this fundamental choice facing the country, in the event of the EU not agreeing to a full free trade deal with the United Kingdom.
https://policyexchange.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/After-Brexit-will-Ireland-be-next-to-exit-1.pdf0 -
you dont underestand the automotive sector is cyclicalScott_P said:@PickardJE: Riddle for Brexiteers:
UK car industry investment down 75% in a year
Output of UK cars down 10% May-May
What's the innocent explanation?0 -
-
You think it's in a down cycle?Alanbrooke said:you dont underestand the automotive sector is cyclical
0 -
-
No crap conservative governments since 2010 haveTheScreamingEagles said:
Unfortunately Brexit has put the kibosh on a lot of that, PBers were warnedAlanbrooke said:Try housebuilding theres a start, were a bit short of them
and then some decent infrastructure like a sensible motorway networks and rail
and decent broadband
we could also revitalise manufacturing and onshore more of the stuff we need to cut our horrendous trade deficit
develop a few IT hubs to help pay our way and pump some cash into materials research and area were ratrher good at
there that should start you
however as the Bob Crow of the financial sector that might confuse you
from Red Robbo to Red shoed Robbo in a generation
http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/06/13/guest-slot-the-impact-of-leaving-the-eu-on-londons-technology-start-up-scene/
Brexit was started by your friend Dave, something you appear too have forgotten0 -
Mr. P, a useless headline.
That could mean a massive redeployment of personnel and resources. Or a name plate.
By definition, major banks will have a presence in the EU. Frankfurt is a financial centre, although not in London's league. The headline gives no context or useful information whatsoever.
A similar (the same?) story had the same problem a few weeks ago.
Anyway, I must be off.0 -
They haven't comma-ed it.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Probably the only TURNIP in Scotland!Morris_Dancer said:Mr. HYUFD, Mr. G is a Thatcherite Uber Realistic Nationalist Independence Patriot.
Or TURNIP, for short.0 -
Honestly, you should read them firstScott_P said:
"Japan’s second-biggest lender by market value is establishing the units to offer services “with no disruption” once Britain leaves the union, it said in a statement on Monday. Sumitomo Mitsui’s banking unit will also take steps to set up a branch in London. The plans are subject to regulatory approval"0 -
Populists united it seemsGeoffM said:
Oh right, nice one, Much appreciated. I actually thought of Boris because of the hair - but I disregarded him because I didn't guess the associated story either. Cheers!HYUFD said:0 -
Not a penny increase, not even cost of living/ inflation rises? I find that hard to believe. Surely anyone seeing a real terms cut in their salary for 7 years straight would have moved on.malcolmg said:
I certainly know people in a Global company who have not had a pay rise since 2010. Not all companies pay everybody a pay rise , it is done individually. Large swathes have not had rises since the crash.not_on_fire said:
Utter nonsense, give me one single example of a private sector company that hasn't given out any pay rises since 2010 when austerity began. Remember the Living Wage has been introduced since then.GeoffM said:
Quite right, yes.malcolmg said:
Lots of private sector have not had pay rises for many years never mind 1% and have significantly worse pensions and conditionsHYUFD said:
Public sector pay has risen below private sector pay for years now and job cuts in the public sector due to austerity have ended the idea of a guaranteed job for life and even in the public sector final salary pensions are in declineMorris_Dancer said:Mr. HYUFD, I'd have more sympathy with that line on pay if the public sector had pay cuts when the private sector does, or had comparable pensions and job security.
I'm not saying a pay rise above 1% (on average, across the board) is necessarily the wrong move, just responding to the suggestion public sector pay should rise with private sector pay.
PS , not everybody paid below the living wage and many many still do not actually pay it today. Perhaps you meant the minimum wage.
Any company not paying the living wage (assuming the employee is over 25) is breaking the law.0 -
It's obvious, the punters are saving their cash for the new Austin Brexit.Scott_P said:@PickardJE: Riddle for Brexiteers:
UK car industry investment down 75% in a year
Output of UK cars down 10% May-May
What's the innocent explanation?
https://www.markpack.org.uk/files/2017/04/The-Austin-Brexit.jpg0 -
the whole of Europe is heading to its down cycle, normally we are 2 years ahead of the EUScott_P said:
You think it's in a down cycle?Alanbrooke said:you dont underestand the automotive sector is cyclical
We will hit a downturn in 2018 or 20190 -
Yes, it says their EU base will be in Frankfurt. To service the EU. A huge market.isam said:Honestly, you should read them first
"Japan’s second-biggest lender by market value is establishing the units to offer services “with no disruption” once Britain leaves the union, it said in a statement on Monday. Sumitomo Mitsui’s banking unit will also take steps to set up a branch in London. The plans are subject to regulatory approval"
They will also look at a UK office, if there is any UK business worth having.0 -
It's idiotic to ask you to back up your confidently stated opinion with factual examples? OK.GeoffM said:
Indeed. HYUFD talks on the next comment about "average" without understanding that.malcolmg said:
I certainly know people in a Global company who have not had a pay rise since 2010. Not all companies pay everybody a pay rise , it is done individually. Large swathes have not had rises since the crash.not_on_fire said:
Utter nonsense, give me one single example of a private sector company that hasn't given out any pay rises since 2010 when austerity began. Remember the Living Wage has been introduced since then.GeoffM said:
Quite right, yes.malcolmg said:
Lots of private sector have not had pay rises for many years never mind 1% and have significantly worse pensions and conditionsHYUFD said:
Public sector pay has risen below private sector pay for years now and job cuts in the public sector due to austerity have ended the idea of a guaranteed job for life and even in the public sector final salary pensions are in declineMorris_Dancer said:Mr. HYUFD, I'd have more sympathy with that line on pay if the public sector had pay cuts when the private sector does, or had comparable pensions and job security.
I'm not saying a pay rise above 1% (on average, across the board) is necessarily the wrong move, just responding to the suggestion public sector pay should rise with private sector pay.
PS , not everybody paid below the living wage and many many still do not actually pay it today. Perhaps you meant the minimum wage.
Rather like you I'm familiar with some specific non-"average" examples as well including two clients of mine. They won't remain my clients for long if I give their names on a public forum though. Really - 'not_on_fire' is an idiot to ask for that.
At best your "lots of private sector people" is reduced to 2 anecdata examples.0 -
So the crap result this year is due to downturn next year or the year after..Alanbrooke said:We will hit a downturn in 2018 or 2019
Riiiggghhhhtttt.0 -
Barking, the birthplace of two of the greatest English captains, Sir Bobby Moore and John Terry.DecrepitJohnL said:
Barking is a very odd place. Redevelopment seems to have moved the town centre to the west. My impression last time I was there after a long period away was that you could do a lot of walking without appearing to get anywhere. Even its posh streets now look shabby. Most of the jobs in Dagenham (not just Ford) have gone.isam said:
Go to places like Barking... it feels like the 3rd World, & many are living in abject poverty to be able to fund the lifestyles of Westminster politicians and the likeBenpointer said:
Yep - at least we will be taking back control of our own descent into abject poverty and 3rd world status! ('We' being politicians and bureaucrats in Westiminster rather than politicians and bureaucrats in Brussels, which will make it all feel much better I am sure!)TheScreamingEagles said:
It's only the financial services sector, only represents 10% of GDP, nothing to worry about, Leavers will tell us that sovereignty will make up for all those lost tax revenues.TOPPING said:
I mean fair enough to say that fat-cat bankers are leeches and should be expelled from our lives and the less influence they have the better.TheScreamingEagles said:
Inigel4england said:
Please gibe lots of examples of how we were able to influence standards and rules as members.Beverley_C said:
Indeed. It will still be a huge market whose standards and rules we will have no ability to influence. Yet, in order to gain access to their market, we will have to follow and implement their rules.FF43 said:
Nope. Of all the false premises behind Brexit, that's the biggest one. The EU will dominate the political life of the country after exit in a way it never did while we were members. And not in a good way.GIN1138 said:
Once we've left doesn't that bring matters to a close once and for all?AlastairMeeks said:
This obsession with the EU is the reason why every Conservative leader for decades to come will continue to fail abjectly. It's not going to go away.
But to deny that the UK had huge influence in setting the rules for european financial services is just bizarre.
Someone said to me, discussing MiFID II, that our leaving the EU would be great because we could ignore it.............
Interesting to note that another great English captain, Tony Adams, was born in Romford and grew up in nearby Dagenham.
With John Terry signing for Aston Villa today he has become a real Villain.0 -
I'm sorely tempted to do the next thread on the appalling lack of grammar in our government.TOPPING said:
They haven't comma-ed it.TheScreamingEagles said:
It leads to nonsense like this from 2013. Honestly, the inability to use apostrophes correctly is the sign of a stupid mind.
Outrage at local authority plans to abolish apostrophe
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/mar/15/council-ban-apostrophe0 -
Yes we are leaving the EU, so I guess non EU banks will have to set up offices there. You don't seem to get that millions of people voted to leave because they see city jobs paying six figures plus protected, while their low wages & job security are undercut. The reverse of how it should be in a capitalist society that also looks after the less well off. Its also why Corbyn did so well. The "anywheres" can move to Frankfurt and keep their jobs, they said this was a good thing, they should be pleased.Scott_P said:
Yes, it says their EU base will be in Frankfurt. To service the EU. A huge market.isam said:Honestly, you should read them first
"Japan’s second-biggest lender by market value is establishing the units to offer services “with no disruption” once Britain leaves the union, it said in a statement on Monday. Sumitomo Mitsui’s banking unit will also take steps to set up a branch in London. The plans are subject to regulatory approval"
They will also look at a UK office, if there is any UK business worth having.0 -
I could give you a dozen examples but I'm not going to.not_on_fire said:
It's idiotic to ask you to back up your confidently stated opinion with factual examples? OK.GeoffM said:
Indeed. HYUFD talks on the next comment about "average" without understanding that.malcolmg said:
I certainly know people in a Global company who have not had a pay rise since 2010. Not all companies pay everybody a pay rise , it is done individually. Large swathes have not had rises since the crash.not_on_fire said:
Utter nonsense, give me one single example of a private sector company that hasn't given out any pay rises since 2010 when austerity began. Remember the Living Wage has been introduced since then.GeoffM said:
Quite right, yes.malcolmg said:
Lots of private sector have not had pay rises for many years never mind 1% and have significantly worse pensions and conditionsHYUFD said:
Public sector pay has risen below private sector pay for years now and job cuts in the public sector due to austerity have ended the idea of a guaranteed job for life and even in the public sector final salary pensions are in declineMorris_Dancer said:Mr. HYUFD, I'd have more sympathy with that line on pay if the public sector had pay cuts when the private sector does, or had comparable pensions and job security.
I'm not saying a pay rise above 1% (on average, across the board) is necessarily the wrong move, just responding to the suggestion public sector pay should rise with private sector pay.
PS , not everybody paid below the living wage and many many still do not actually pay it today. Perhaps you meant the minimum wage.
Rather like you I'm familiar with some specific non-"average" examples as well including two clients of mine. They won't remain my clients for long if I give their names on a public forum though. Really - 'not_on_fire' is an idiot to ask for that.
At best your "lots of private sector people" is reduced to 2 anecdata examples.
You must be in cloud cuckoo land if you think the private sector has been dishing out pay rises each year, many people are grateful just to have kept their jobs0 -
When I worked on a local paper, as a cub reporter I wrote a piece about a Royal British Legion meeting where "certificates were awarded to Mr. XXX for his services on Poppy Day and to the entire Ladies' Section."Ishmael_Z said:
Errrm, I think all three sentences are there as examples of ambiguity.Stereotomy said:
In fact, even that Nelson Mandela example would be ambiguous with an Oxford commaStereotomy said:
What about "This book is dedicated to my mother, Ayn Rand, and God"?TheScreamingEagles said:
I bloody love the Oxford comma too. Big fan.TOPPING said:
I bloody love the Oxford Comma - it seems that GO is struggling, however, with his plus signs and ampersands.TheScreamingEagles said:
This is why we have the Oxford comma.TOPPING said:
That reads like there was also a plot to kill Sebastian Coe...isam said:Wow! A Standard front page not about Westminster!!! French politics instead...
Really has its finger on the pulse of everyday London
https://twitter.com/george_osborne/status/881828228238905350
Luckily the sub-editor spotted the implication and changed it.
0 -
Every time a cat gets stuck up a tree we're going to hang it on the leavers. You'd better start getting used to it.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. P, a useless headline.
That could mean a massive redeployment of personnel and resources. Or a name plate.
By definition, major banks will have a presence in the EU. Frankfurt is a financial centre, although not in London's league. The headline gives no context or useful information whatsoever.
A similar (the same?) story had the same problem a few weeks ago.
Anyway, I must be off.0 -
Seems like the rebalancing of the economy is happening and the privileged don't like it.isam said:
Yes we are leaving the EU, so I guess non EU banks will have to set up offices there. You don't seem to get that millions of people voted to leave because they see city jobs paying six figures plus protected, while their low wages & job security are undercut. The reverse of how it should be in a capitalist society that also looks after the less well off. Its also why Corbyn did so well. The "anywheres" can move to Frankfurt and keep their jobs, they said this was a good thing, they should be pleased.Scott_P said:
Yes, it says their EU base will be in Frankfurt. To service the EU. A huge market.isam said:Honestly, you should read them first
"Japan’s second-biggest lender by market value is establishing the units to offer services “with no disruption” once Britain leaves the union, it said in a statement on Monday. Sumitomo Mitsui’s banking unit will also take steps to set up a branch in London. The plans are subject to regulatory approval"
They will also look at a UK office, if there is any UK business worth having.0 -
There should not be a second comma. The first and only comma needs moving one word to the right, unless the DCMS also covers non-digital culture, in which case they need to start again from scratch.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
So more non-examples.nigel4england said:
I could give you a dozen examples but I'm not going to.not_on_fire said:
It's idiotic to ask you to back up your confidently stated opinion with factual examples? OK.GeoffM said:
Indeed. HYUFD talks on the next comment about "average" without understanding that.malcolmg said:
I certainly know people in a Global company who have not had a pay rise since 2010. Not all companies pay everybody a pay rise , it is done individually. Large swathes have not had rises since the crash.not_on_fire said:
Utter nonsense, give me one single example of a private sector company that hasn't given out any pay rises since 2010 when austerity began. Remember the Living Wage has been introduced since then.GeoffM said:
Quite right, yes.malcolmg said:
Lots of private sector have not had pay rises for many years never mind 1% and have significantly worse pensions and conditionsHYUFD said:
Public sector pay has risen below private sector pay for years now and job cuts in the public sector due to austerity have ended the idea of a guaranteed job for life and even in the public sector final salary pensions are in declineMorris_Dancer said:Mr. HYUFD, I'd have more sympathy with that line on pay if the public sector had pay cuts when the private sector does, or had comparable pensions and job security.
I'm not saying a pay rise above 1% (on average, across the board) is necessarily the wrong move, just responding to the suggestion public sector pay should rise with private sector pay.
PS , not everybody paid below the living wage and many many still do not actually pay it today. Perhaps you meant the minimum wage.
Rather like you I'm familiar with some specific non-"average" examples as well including two clients of mine. They won't remain my clients for long if I give their names on a public forum though. Really - 'not_on_fire' is an idiot to ask for that.
At best your "lots of private sector people" is reduced to 2 anecdata examples.
You must be in cloud cuckoo land if you think the private sector has been dishing out pay rises each year, many people are grateful just to have kept their jobs
It's ludricous to content that many people are being paid exactly the same in 2017 as they were in 2010 despite the introduction of the living wage and its ripple effect upwards.
What you say was possibly true in 2011 or 2012, but certainly isn't now.0 -
More fun for Ireland:
One of the main reasons why Britain attracts so many immigrants is its language; English is the main foreign language in many East European countries. While Ireland will never attract the same number of arrivals, it is probable that Ireland will see a major increase in immigrants from Eastern Europe once the option of migrating to Britain is closed off. To date, there has been relatively little opposition to immigration in Ireland, where is it is still seen as beneficial. However, a large increase in new arrivals could change attitudes.0 -
The priveleged will be largely untouched by it.nigel4england said:
Seems like the rebalancing of the economy is happening and the privileged don't like it.isam said:
Yes we are leaving the EU, so I guess non EU banks will have to set up offices there. You don't seem to get that millions of people voted to leave because they see city jobs paying six figures plus protected, while their low wages & job security are undercut. The reverse of how it should be in a capitalist society that also looks after the less well off. Its also why Corbyn did so well. The "anywheres" can move to Frankfurt and keep their jobs, they said this was a good thing, they should be pleased.Scott_P said:
Yes, it says their EU base will be in Frankfurt. To service the EU. A huge market.isam said:Honestly, you should read them first
"Japan’s second-biggest lender by market value is establishing the units to offer services “with no disruption” once Britain leaves the union, it said in a statement on Monday. Sumitomo Mitsui’s banking unit will also take steps to set up a branch in London. The plans are subject to regulatory approval"
They will also look at a UK office, if there is any UK business worth having.0 -
Ive been around cars long enough to know its pointless looking at one months figures in isolationScott_P said:
So the crap result this year is due to downturn next year or the year after..Alanbrooke said:We will hit a downturn in 2018 or 2019
Riiiggghhhhtttt.0 -
You expect me to name clients on here?not_on_fire said:
So more non-examples.nigel4england said:
I could give you a dozen examples but I'm not going to.not_on_fire said:
It's idiotic to ask you to back up your confidently stated opinion with factual examples? OK.GeoffM said:
Indeed. HYUFD talks on the next comment about "average" without understanding that.malcolmg said:
I certainly know people in a Global company who have not had a pay rise since 2010. Not all companies pay everybody a pay rise , it is done individually. Large swathes have not had rises since the crash.not_on_fire said:
Utter nonsense, give me one single example of a private sector company that hasn't given out any pay rises since 2010 when austerity began. Remember the Living Wage has been introduced since then.GeoffM said:
Quite right, yes.malcolmg said:
Lots of private sector have not had pay rises for many years never mind 1% and have significantly worse pensions and conditionsHYUFD said:
Public sector pay has risen below private sector pay for years now and job cuts in the public sector due to austerity have ended the idea of a guaranteed job for life and even in the public sector final salary pensions are in declineMorris_Dancer said:Mr. HYUFD, I'd have more sympathy with that line on pay if the public sector had pay cuts when the private sector does, or had comparable pensions and job security.
I'm not saying a pay rise above 1% (on average, across the board) is necessarily the wrong move, just responding to the suggestion public sector pay should rise with private sector pay.
PS , not everybody paid below the living wage and many many still do not actually pay it today. Perhaps you meant the minimum wage.
Rather like you I'm familiar with some specific non-"average" examples as well including two clients of mine. They won't remain my clients for long if I give their names on a public forum though. Really - 'not_on_fire' is an idiot to ask for that.
At best your "lots of private sector people" is reduced to 2 anecdata examples.
You must be in cloud cuckoo land if you think the private sector has been dishing out pay rises each year, many people are grateful just to have kept their jobs
It's ludricous to content that many people are being paid exactly the same in 2017 as they were in 2010 despite the introduction of the living wage.
What you say was possibly true in 2011 or 2012, but certainly isn't now.
Grow up and be realistic0 -
What is ‘Digital Culture’? Is it like that of Dubai?DecrepitJohnL said:
There should not be a second comma. The first and only comma needs moving one word to the right, unless the DCMS also covers non-digital culture, in which case they need to start again from scratch.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Digital is a noun, it refers to a component of a musical instrument. Though I doubt that is the intended meaning.TOPPING said:
They haven't comma-ed it.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
OK maybe I phrased that incorrectly, I mean the six figure salary boys that have had it really good for the last few years, whilst the ordinary man or woman has struggledTOPPING said:
The priveleged will be largely untouched by it.nigel4england said:
Seems like the rebalancing of the economy is happening and the privileged don't like it.isam said:
Yes we are leaving the EU, so I guess non EU banks will have to set up offices there. You don't seem to get that millions of people voted to leave because they see city jobs paying six figures plus protected, while their low wages & job security are undercut. The reverse of how it should be in a capitalist society that also looks after the less well off. Its also why Corbyn did so well. The "anywheres" can move to Frankfurt and keep their jobs, they said this was a good thing, they should be pleased.Scott_P said:
Yes, it says their EU base will be in Frankfurt. To service the EU. A huge market.isam said:Honestly, you should read them first
"Japan’s second-biggest lender by market value is establishing the units to offer services “with no disruption” once Britain leaves the union, it said in a statement on Monday. Sumitomo Mitsui’s banking unit will also take steps to set up a branch in London. The plans are subject to regulatory approval"
They will also look at a UK office, if there is any UK business worth having.0 -
Graham Gooch nearby too. GG one of the finest examples of growing a tache to look old, then shaving it off and looking 20 years younger (new hair helped too)nigel4england said:
Barking, the birthplace of two of the greatest English captains, Sir Bobby Moore and John Terry.DecrepitJohnL said:
impression last time I was there after a long period away was that you could do a appearing to get anywhere. Even its posh streets now look shabby. Most of the jobs in Dagenham (not just Ford) have gone.isam said:
Go to places like Barking... it feels like the 3rd World, & many are living in abject poverty to be able to fund the lifestyles of Westminster politicians and the likeBenpointer said:
Yep - at least we will be taking back control of our own descent into abject poverty and 3rd world status! ('We' being politicians and bureaucrats in Westiminster rather than politicians and bureaucrats in Brussels, which will make it all feel much better I am sure!)TheScreamingEagles said:
It's only the financial services sector, only represents 10% of GDP, nothing to worry about, Leavers will tell us that sovereignty will make up for all those lost tax revenues.TOPPING said:
Someone said to me, discussing MiFID II, that our leaving the EU would be great because we could ignore it.............TheScreamingEagles said:
Inigel4england said:
Please gibe lots of examples of how we were able to influence standards and rules as members.Beverley_C said:
.FF43 said:
Nope. Of all the false premises behind Brexit, that's the biggest one. The EU will dominate the political life of the country after exit in a way it never did while we were members. And not in a good way.GIN1138 said:
Once we've left doesn't that bring matters to a close once and for all?AlastairMeeks said:
This obsession with the EU is the reason why every Conservative leader for decades to come will continue to fail abjectly. It's not going to go away.
Interesting to note that another great English captain, Tony Adams, was born in Romford and grew up in nearby Dagenham.
With John Terry signing for Aston Villa today he has become a real Villain.
When he retired from international cricket at 42, he looked like a 1930s 50 year old. Now he looks about 45!0 -
It's not my fault they struggled.nigel4england said:
OK maybe I phrased that incorrectly, I mean the six figure salary boys that have had it really good for the last few years, whilst the ordinary man or woman has struggledTOPPING said:
The priveleged will be largely untouched by it.nigel4england said:
Seems like the rebalancing of the economy is happening and the privileged don't like it.isam said:
Yes we are leaving the EU, so I guess non EU banks will have to set up offices there. You don't seem to get that millions of people voted to leave because they see city jobs paying six figures plus protected, while their low wages & job security are undercut. The reverse of how it should be in a capitalist society that also looks after the less well off. Its also why Corbyn did so well. The "anywheres" can move to Frankfurt and keep their jobs, they said this was a good thing, they should be pleased.Scott_P said:
Yes, it says their EU base will be in Frankfurt. To service the EU. A huge market.isam said:Honestly, you should read them first
"Japan’s second-biggest lender by market value is establishing the units to offer services “with no disruption” once Britain leaves the union, it said in a statement on Monday. Sumitomo Mitsui’s banking unit will also take steps to set up a branch in London. The plans are subject to regulatory approval"
They will also look at a UK office, if there is any UK business worth having.
If they worked harder they might enjoy some benefits.
When I was in my early 20s I regularly worked 80 plus hour weeks, that set me up for life.0 -
One of my friends wanted to vote Leave, but voted Remain as it was better for his job (working for the London Clearing House!) We were walking back from the pub having watched England lose to Iceland last year, down his tree lined road to his 750k house while he was saying how he couldn't live on less than x amount a year. I had to say "Do you think you work harder than people not lucky enough to be born in the London suburbs that live up North and get 1/4 of your salary?"nigel4england said:
OK maybe I phrased that incorrectly, I mean the six figure salary boys that have had it really good for the last few years, whilst the ordinary man or woman has struggledTOPPING said:
The priveleged will be largely untouched by it.nigel4england said:
Seems like the rebalancing of the economy is happening and the privileged don't like it.isam said:
Yes we are leaving the EU, so I guess non EU banks will have to set up offices there. You don't seem to get that millions of people voted to leave because they see city jobs paying six figures plus protected, while their low wages & job security are undercut. The reverse of how it should be in a capitalist society that also looks after the less well off. Its also why Corbyn did so well. The "anywheres" can move to Frankfurt and keep their jobs, they said this was a good thing, they should be pleased.Scott_P said:
Yes, it says their EU base will be in Frankfurt. To service the EU. A huge market.isam said:Honestly, you should read them first
"Japan’s second-biggest lender by market value is establishing the units to offer services “with no disruption” once Britain leaves the union, it said in a statement on Monday. Sumitomo Mitsui’s banking unit will also take steps to set up a branch in London. The plans are subject to regulatory approval"
They will also look at a UK office, if there is any UK business worth having.0 -
According to the DCMS site, it is the Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport.OldKingCole said:
What is ‘Digital Culture’? Is it like that of Dubai?DecrepitJohnL said:
There should not be a second comma. The first and only comma needs moving one word to the right, unless the DCMS also covers non-digital culture, in which case they need to start again from scratch.TheScreamingEagles said:
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/change-of-name-for-dcms
So digital is a noun, and the Secretary of State was at school under a Tory government.
Ironic edit: added a comma to the last sentence.0 -
I find it difficult to distinguish between whether you're really querying the level of available Tory talent, or just having a partisan dig at whomever happens to be in charge.SouthamObserver said:
Given the absolute shambles the government is making of Brexit and the paucity of Tory talent out there (Raab, really??), it is a possibility. But I am afraid I struggle with the idea that if the Tories get their act together constituencies that voted Tory in 2015 and 2017 are suddenly going to embrace the kind of populist socialism advocated by those who now control the Labour party. This country has never swung behind the left in that way before. The utter uselessness of Boris & co might persuade it to, but I am far from convinced.tyson said:
I think the only thing that will now stop Labour heading into power is replacing Corbyn with Abbott....SouthamObserver said:
The talent problem, though.Peter_the_Punter said:
Hmmmm....not sure about that. The vote is always solid, until it melts away.HYUFD said:
Yes, next timePeter_the_Punter said:
True, but be honest, Hyufd, do you think the outcome would have been essentially the same if the election had been a week later?HYUFD said:
Yes indeed although of course Corbyn did still lose to May even if not as badly as expectedPeter_the_Punter said:
All the indications are that Corbyn was closing fast and there is no reason to suppose that was about to stop.
Whether you like it or not Brexit is driving the country in one direction....into the path of left wing populists....
Only the week before last you were saying Gove (although you didn't like his politics) was the sort of talent that the Tories needed to bring back on board.
Today, you're saying he'd be a disaster.0 -
Strong Lions push bottles up All Blacks in second half.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm sorely tempted to do the next thread on the appalling lack of grammar in our government.TOPPING said:
They haven't comma-ed it.TheScreamingEagles said:
It leads to nonsense like this from 2013. Honestly, the inability to use apostrophes correctly is the sign of a stupid mind.
Outrage at local authority plans to abolish apostrophe
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/mar/15/council-ban-apostrophe0 -
Such arrogance becomes you.TheScreamingEagles said:
It's not my fault they struggled.nigel4england said:
OK maybe I phrased that incorrectly, I mean the six figure salary boys that have had it really good for the last few years, whilst the ordinary man or woman has struggledTOPPING said:
The priveleged will be largely untouched by it.nigel4england said:
Seems like the rebalancing of the economy is happening and the privileged don't like it.isam said:
Yes we are leaving the EU, so I guess non EU banks will have to set up offices there. You don't seem to get that millions of people voted to leave because they see city jobs paying six figures plus protected, while their low wages & job security are undercut. The reverse of how it should be in a capitalist society that also looks after the less well off. Its also why Corbyn did so well. The "anywheres" can move to Frankfurt and keep their jobs, they said this was a good thing, they should be pleased.Scott_P said:
Yes, it says their EU base will be in Frankfurt. To service the EU. A huge market.isam said:Honestly, you should read them first
"Japan’s second-biggest lender by market value is establishing the units to offer services “with no disruption” once Britain leaves the union, it said in a statement on Monday. Sumitomo Mitsui’s banking unit will also take steps to set up a branch in London. The plans are subject to regulatory approval"
They will also look at a UK office, if there is any UK business worth having.
If they worked harder they might enjoy some benefits.
When I was in my early 20s I regularly worked 80 plus hour weeks, that set me up for life.
I doubt that very few of them had the opportunity to work 80 hours a week, we're not talking junior doctors or lawyers here.
Just ordinary working people that have seen their jobs move abroad, their wages kept down, and little opportunity to do anything about it.0 -
Jaguar/Land Rover have just announced the creation of 5,000 new jobs.Alanbrooke said:
Ive been around cars long enough to know its pointless looking at one months figures in isolationScott_P said:
So the crap result this year is due to downturn next year or the year after..Alanbrooke said:We will hit a downturn in 2018 or 2019
Riiiggghhhhtttt.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/brexit-jaguar-land-rover-5000-new-jobs-uk-economy-cars-auto-manufacturing-a7796671.html0 -
The sales simply spin the "wheel of credit" that alot of the UK seems to live on.Alanbrooke said:
Ive been around cars long enough to know its pointless looking at one months figures in isolationScott_P said:
So the crap result this year is due to downturn next year or the year after..Alanbrooke said:We will hit a downturn in 2018 or 2019
Riiiggghhhhtttt.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4659746/Reckless-car-loan-salesmen-offer-new-cars-unemployed.html
Although the Seat Ibiza offer is at -1.1%APR..0 -
I'm certainly curious to know how your clients can afford to spend money on your services but have given their employees a real terms pay cut of 23%nigel4england said:
You expect me to name clients on here?not_on_fire said:
So more non-examples.nigel4england said:
I could give you a dozen examples but I'm not going to.not_on_fire said:
It's idiotic to ask you to back up your confidently stated opinion with factual examples? OK.GeoffM said:
Indeed. HYUFD talks on the next comment about "average" without understanding that.malcolmg said:
I certainly know people in a Global company who have not had a pay rise since 2010. Not all companies pay everybody a pay rise , it is done individually. Large swathes have not had rises since the crash.not_on_fire said:
Utter nonsense, give me one single example of a private sector company that hasn't given out any pay rises since 2010 when austerity began. Remember the Living Wage has been introduced since then.GeoffM said:
Quite right, yes.malcolmg said:
Lots of private sector have not had pay rises for many years never mind 1% and have significantly worse pensions and conditionsHYUFD said:
Public sector pay has risen below private sector pay for years now and job cuts in the public sector due to austerity have ended the idea of a guaranteed job for life and even in the public sector final salary pensions are in declineMorris_Dancer said:Mr. HYUFD, I'd have more sympathy with that line on pay if the public sector had pay cuts when the private sector does, or had comparable pensions and job security.
I'm not saying a pay rise above 1% (on average, across the board) is necessarily the wrong move, just responding to the suggestion public sector pay should rise with private sector pay.
PS , not everybody paid below the living wage and many many still do not actually pay it today. Perhaps you meant the minimum wage.
At best your "lots of private sector people" is reduced to 2 anecdata examples.
You must be in cloud cuckoo land if you think the private sector has been dishing out pay rises each year, many people are grateful just to have kept their jobs
It's ludricous to content that many people are being paid exactly the same in 2017 as they were in 2010 despite the introduction of the living wage.
What you say was possibly true in 2011 or 2012, but certainly isn't now.
Grow up and be realistic0 -
Digital remains an adjective - this is merely an example of ellipsis, 'digital stuff' sounding even more ugly.DecrepitJohnL said:
According to the DCMS site, it is the Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport.OldKingCole said:
What is ‘Digital Culture’? Is it like that of Dubai?DecrepitJohnL said:
There should not be a second comma. The first and only comma needs moving one word to the right, unless the DCMS also covers non-digital culture, in which case they need to start again from scratch.TheScreamingEagles said:
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/change-of-name-for-dcms
So digital is a noun, and the Secretary of State was at school under a Tory government.
Ironic edit: added a comma to the last sentence.
0 -
Just channelling my inner Tebbit, he was right about the get on your bike approach.nigel4england said:
Such arrogance becomes you.TheScreamingEagles said:
It's not my fault they struggled.nigel4england said:
OK maybe I phrased that incorrectly, I mean the six figure salary boys that have had it really good for the last few years, whilst the ordinary man or woman has struggledTOPPING said:
The priveleged will be largely untouched by it.nigel4england said:
Seems like the rebalancing of the economy is happening and the privileged don't like it.isam said:
Yes we are leaving the EU, so I guess non EU banks will have to set up offices there. You don't seem to get that millions of people voted to leave because they see city jobs paying six figures plus protected, while their low wages & job security are undercut. The reverse of how it should be in a capitalist society that also looks after the less well off. Its also why Corbyn did so well. The "anywheres" can move to Frankfurt and keep their jobs, they said this was a good thing, they should be pleased.Scott_P said:
Yes, it says their EU base will be in Frankfurt. To service the EU. A huge market.isam said:Honestly, you should read them first
"Japan’s second-biggest lender by market value is establishing the units to offer services “with no disruption” once Britain leaves the union, it said in a statement on Monday. Sumitomo Mitsui’s banking unit will also take steps to set up a branch in London. The plans are subject to regulatory approval"
They will also look at a UK office, if there is any UK business worth having.
If they worked harder they might enjoy some benefits.
When I was in my early 20s I regularly worked 80 plus hour weeks, that set me up for life.
I doubt that very few of them had the opportunity to work 80 hours a week, we're not talking junior doctors or lawyers here.
Just ordinary working people that have seen their jobs move abroad, their wages kept down, and little opportunity to do anything about it.0 -
I'm surprised they didn't use 'Information super highway' instead of 'digital'Nigelb said:
Digital remains an adjective - this is merely an example of ellipsis, 'digital stuff' sounding even more ugly.DecrepitJohnL said:
According to the DCMS site, it is the Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport.OldKingCole said:
What is ‘Digital Culture’? Is it like that of Dubai?DecrepitJohnL said:
There should not be a second comma. The first and only comma needs moving one word to the right, unless the DCMS also covers non-digital culture, in which case they need to start again from scratch.TheScreamingEagles said:
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/change-of-name-for-dcms
So digital is a noun, and the Secretary of State was at school under a Tory government.
Ironic edit: added a comma to the last sentence.0 -
I know white van drivers that work 80 hours a week, do you think they make six figures a year?TheScreamingEagles said:
Just channelling my inner Tebbit, he was right about the get on your bike approach.nigel4england said:
Such arrogance becomes you.TheScreamingEagles said:
It's not my fault they struggled.nigel4england said:
OK maybe I phrased that incorrectly, I mean the six figure salary boys that have had it really good for the last few years, whilst the ordinary man or woman has struggledTOPPING said:
The priveleged will be largely untouched by it.nigel4england said:
Seems like the rebalancing of the economy is happening and the privileged don't like it.isam said:
Yes we are leaving the EU, so I guess non EU banks will have to set up offices there. You don't seem to get that millions of people voted to leave because they see city jobs paying six figures plus protected, while their low wages & job security are undercut. The reverse of how it should be in a capitalist society that also looks after the less well off. Its also why Corbyn did so well. The "anywheres" can move to Frankfurt and keep their jobs, they said this was a good thing, they should be pleased.Scott_P said:
Yes, it says their EU base will be in Frankfurt. To service the EU. A huge market.isam said:Honestly, you should read them first
"Japan’s second-biggest lender by market value is establishing the units to offer services “with no disruption” once Britain leaves the union, it said in a statement on Monday. Sumitomo Mitsui’s banking unit will also take steps to set up a branch in London. The plans are subject to regulatory approval"
They will also look at a UK office, if there is any UK business worth having.
If they worked harder they might enjoy some benefits.
When I was in my early 20s I regularly worked 80 plus hour weeks, that set me up for life.
I doubt that very few of them had the opportunity to work 80 hours a week, we're not talking junior doctors or lawyers here.
Just ordinary working people that have seen their jobs move abroad, their wages kept down, and little opportunity to do anything about it.0 -
Digital might currently be an adjective but it is being used in conversation as a noun and therefore it will become accepted and then fomalised as one sooner or later.Nigelb said:
Digital remains an adjective - this is merely an example of ellipsis, 'digital stuff' sounding even more ugly.DecrepitJohnL said:
According to the DCMS site, it is the Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport.OldKingCole said:
What is ‘Digital Culture’? Is it like that of Dubai?DecrepitJohnL said:
There should not be a second comma. The first and only comma needs moving one word to the right, unless the DCMS also covers non-digital culture, in which case they need to start again from scratch.TheScreamingEagles said:
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/change-of-name-for-dcms
So digital is a noun, and the Secretary of State was at school under a Tory government.
Ironic edit: added a comma to the last sentence.0 -
Actually, the word elided seems to be 'sectors':TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm surprised they didn't use 'Information super highway' instead of 'digital'Nigelb said:
Digital remains an adjective - this is merely an example of ellipsis, 'digital stuff' sounding even more ugly.DecrepitJohnL said:
According to the DCMS site, it is the Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport.OldKingCole said:
What is ‘Digital Culture’? Is it like that of Dubai?DecrepitJohnL said:
There should not be a second comma. The first and only comma needs moving one word to the right, unless the DCMS also covers non-digital culture, in which case they need to start again from scratch.TheScreamingEagles said:
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/change-of-name-for-dcms
So digital is a noun, and the Secretary of State was at school under a Tory government.
Ironic edit: added a comma to the last sentence.
"The department has taken on significant new responsibilities in recent years, so that half of its policy and delivery work now covers the digital sectors - telecommunications, data protection, internet safety, cyber skills and parts of media and the creative industries...."
The missing comma is, however, grammatically inexplicable.0
