On a positive note, SeanT is still bonking a youngster 30 years younger than himself, so it's not all bad.
What's happened to SeanT? We could do with his calming presence. I wonder if he's shifted his allegiance to Remain and/or Corbynism, but is still working out how to tell us gently.
He's gone from ultra hard Brexit gives him the horn/bomb France and Germany and kick EU citizens into the channel to very soft Brexit.
He got depressed when I told him it soft Brexit wasn't an option.
I think it is an option as long as we use an off the shelf arrangement like EFTA. We can worry about what comes next after that when we have much more time. Tbh, we could stay in EFTA for up to 10 years without too much trouble. Most people won't notice and difference and the EU will be happy to get £3-4bn per year in membership fees.
But even that approach does not short-circuit the two-year Article 50 process. Even to get from here to there requires the UK to go through the wringer in a humiliating way, no matter how smoothly the process is handled.
The article 50 process is only two years if that is how long is needed. Now whilst I agree it is probably going to run the course, if they did get everything sorted by going for the EFTA type deal then they don't have to sit around drinking coffee for the rest of the time. Two years is the maximum time (without extensions) not a set time.
The most sensible option is, and has always been, to go to EFTA/EEA and then see how we like it. We could even legislate now for a referendum after five years in it.
This would give hope to Europhiles who think we might change our mind. To hard core Brexiteers who think the public would never accept the Norway solution. And to the sensible middle.
And if we did decide to go it alone after five years, we would be doing it from a position of relative strength after we had already rebuilt our non EU trade deals.
Yep. You and I have long been on the same page about this. As it seems are many other PB Leavers.
I see Philip Hammond is saying Britain should stay in the Customs Union.
From what I understand of how it would work, this seems to me the most consensual way forward. Get control of our immigration system, but at the same time pretty much maintain the trade status-quo and minimise economic turmoil -- don't think many would be that unhappy with that.
I don't really know why the Osborne crowd are effectively ruling themselves out of coming back. This is not a time when disloyalty will be rewarded.
Oh and I caught a mention of how the boundaries affect Belfast on the previous thread. I think Sean mentioned Alliance tunderstandable to an extent but she's clearly forgotten the vast majority of her voters are from a PUL background and has a lot of ground to make up now.
I now think the Alliance bubble is burst in East Belfast. By all means run as soft Unionist. Prods.
It was a terrible campaign by Naomi. I've regularly sparred quite chummily with her on Twitter and before the campaign started I'd have said I would have been 95% certain I'd have voted for her were I in East Belfast. By the end of the campaign, I'd have voted for Gavin. And I'm by no means a fan of the DUP. I would previously have said I'd only vote DUP in a direct contest with SF. But I've gone right off Alliance in the past month. They just have this attitude that they are BETTER than everyone else.
I don't really know why the Osborne crowd are effectively ruling themselves out of coming back. This is not a time when disloyalty will be rewarded.
Oh and I caught a mention of how the boundaries affect Belfast on the previous thread. I think has a lot of ground to make up now.
Long got into Westminster in 2010 off the back of a paramilitary inspired mobilisation of loyalist housing estate votes in East Belfast as a kick against Peter Robinson losing sight of
A slice of that vote did stay with her alongside the guilty Prod vote in the Assembly but last week she didn't just get beat, she got absolutely thumped by the DUP because that working class loyalist vote turned out this time in opposition to her.
Lets be honest, Gavin Robinson, who's 2015 acceptance speech might as well have invoked the imagery of the 5 year reign of Alliance terror that he had just toppled, isn't exactly a killer candidate.
I think she's dreadful. It would be like voting for Caroline Lucas. I'm glad she went down in flames.
Lost sight of the voter base because her holier than thou ego obscured them.
Labour won seats by ignoring Brexit. As many on here point out, Labour LOST an election 5 days ago, so their position is irrelevant. Does the newly-elected govt. have a superior plan? That is a matter of the greatest import for us all.
Labour won seats by neutralising Brexit so they could win back all those UKIP voters they lost leading up to the referendum.
I see Philip Hammond is saying Britain should stay in the Customs Union.
From what I understand of how it would work, this seems to me the most consensual way forward. Get control of our immigration system, but at the same time pretty much maintain the trade status-quo and minimise economic turmoil -- don't think many would be that unhappy with that.
No trade deals with the rest of the world. Its a stupid idea. Nor does it help us if we don't also stay in the Single market. That is far more important for trade normalisation with the EU than the Customs Union.
Labour won seats by ignoring Brexit. As many on here point out, Labour LOST an election 5 days ago, so their position is irrelevant. Does the newly-elected govt. have a superior plan? That is a matter of the greatest import for us all.
Labour won seats by neutralising Brexit so they could win back all those UKIP voters they lost leading up to the referendum.
Could not agree more. For many Leave voters, actually leaving the EU was not crucial to their considerations.
So right now the prospects for Britain look bleak indeed. Hunker down. Winter is coming.
Still, look on the bright side. Well-off oldies are protected and they'll still get their tax-free fuel allowance as the winter sets in, thanks to the election result.
Hmm My parents are grateful, but they could manage their fuel bills before my Dad hit 65. So the cash won't be going to pay his gas and electric, more holidays and general saving...
Not sure its the best use of public money xD
A German friend asked why the British were not embarrassed that their state pension is so inadequate that its recipients need extra money to buy fuel. I had no answer.
I can see the next Tory Party Political Broadcast.
'This is the Labour Party. They want to spend the taxes you pay and control the country's finances.
In the 2017 election they won 262 seats, the Conservatives won 318 seats.
Labour thinks it won the election even though it won 56 less seats than the Conservatives
Labour can't count.
Vote Conservative. '
The last thing the tories will want to do is remind anyone of that election.
She's bought shame on herself and the party, and while she's still PM it's taboo to mention her failure. Non-compliance results in social & political ostracism.
Everyone inside the conservative tent must now pretend the election didn't happen.
So right now the prospects for Britain look bleak indeed. Hunker down. Winter is coming.
Still, look on the bright side. Well-off oldies are protected and they'll still get their tax-free fuel allowance as the winter sets in, thanks to the election result.
Hmm My parents are grateful, but they could manage their fuel bills before my Dad hit 65. So the cash won't be going to pay his gas and electric, more holidays and general saving...
Not sure its the best use of public money xD
A German friend asked why the British were not embarrassed that their state pension is so inadequate that its recipients need extra money to buy fuel. I had no answer.
tell him because we sold everything off to the Germans!
I see Philip Hammond is saying Britain should stay in the Customs Union.
From what I understand of how it would work, this seems to me the most consensual way forward. Get control of our immigration system, but at the same time pretty much maintain the trade status-quo and minimise economic turmoil -- don't think many would be that unhappy with that.
No trade deals with the rest of the world. Its a stupid idea. Nor does it help us if we don't also stay in the Single market. That is far more important for trade normalisation with the EU than the Customs Union.
There is no chance that the country will wear freedom of movement continuing; I know you might disagree, but IMO immigration was by far the biggest driver of the Brexit vote.
By contrast, I don't think the average Leave voter gave two figs about signing trade deals with the rest of the world.
I can see the next Tory Party Political Broadcast.
'This is the Labour Party. They want to spend the taxes you pay and control the country's finances.
In the 2017 election they won 262 seats, the Conservatives won 318 seats.
Labour thinks it won the election even though it won 56 less seats than the Conservatives
Labour can't count.
Vote Conservative. '
The last thing the tories will want to do is remind anyone of that election.
She's bought shame on herself and the party, and while she's still PM it's taboo to mention her failure. Non-compliance results in social & political ostracism.
Everyone inside the conservative tent must now pretend the election didn't happen.
The country knows she failed to achieve a reachable objective, and the country votes not just the Conservative Party.
On a positive note, SeanT is still bonking a youngster 30 years younger than himself, so it's not all bad.
What's happened to SeanT? We could do with his calming presence. I wonder if he's shifted his allegiance to Remain and/or Corbynism, but is still working out how to tell us gently.
He's gone from ultra hard Brexit gives him the horn/bomb France and Germany and kick EU citizens into the channel to very soft Brexit.
He got depressed when I told him it soft Brexit wasn't an option.
I think it is an option as long as we use an off the shelf arrangement like EFTA. We can worry about what comes next after that when we have much more time. Tbh, we could stay in EFTA for up to 10 years without too much trouble. Most people won't notice and difference and the EU will be happy to get £3-4bn per year in membership fees.
But even that approach does not short-circuit the two-year Article 50 process. Even to get from here to there requires the UK to go through the wringer in a humiliating way, no matter how smoothly the process is handled.
The article 50 process is only two years if that is how long is needed. Now whilst I agree it is probably going to run the course, if they did get everything sorted by going for the EFTA type deal then they don't have to sit around drinking coffee for the rest of the time. Two years is the maximum time (without extensions) not a set time.
The most sensible option is, and has always been, to go to EFTA/EEA and then see how we like it. We could even legislate now for a referendum after five years in it.
This would give hope to Europhiles who think we might change our mind. To hard core Brexiteers who think the public would never accept the Norway solution. And to the sensible middle.
And if we did decide to go it alone after five years, we would be doing it from a position of relative strength after we had already rebuilt our non EU trade deals.
I see Philip Hammond is saying Britain should stay in the Customs Union.
From what I understand of how it would work, this seems to me the most consensual way forward. Get control of our immigration system, but at the same time pretty much maintain the trade status-quo and minimise economic turmoil -- don't think many would be that unhappy with that.
No trade deals with the rest of the world. Its a stupid idea. Nor does it help us if we don't also stay in the Single market. That is far more important for trade normalisation with the EU than the Customs Union.
There is no chance that the country will wear freedom of movement continuing; I know you might disagree, but IMO immigration was by far the biggest driver of the Brexit vote.
By contrast, I don't think the average Leave voter gave two figs about signing trade deals with the rest of the world.
The point is that being in the Customs Union does not give you the free trade that businesses want. Only the Single Market does that. Being in the Customs Union but not in the Single Market is just dumb. It is the worst of both worlds.
and the Official Opposition haven't a clue what to do on brexit - great news if in government anytime soon.
You are spot on right. However, they are no more nor less coherent on this matter than HMG. And HMG have to see it through, and thus will get any blame (or any credit if there is any).
I can see the next Tory Party Political Broadcast.
'This is the Labour Party. They want to spend the taxes you pay and control the country's finances.
In the 2017 election they won 262 seats, the Conservatives won 318 seats.
Labour thinks it won the election even though it won 56 less seats than the Conservatives
Labour can't count.
Vote Conservative. '
Yes that seems about right - offering absolutely no positive reason to vote for them, and just rubbishing Labour. Should work about as well as it did this time round.
I see Philip Hammond is saying Britain should stay in the Customs Union.
From what I understand of how it would work, this seems to me the most consensual way forward. Get control of our immigration system, but at the same time pretty much maintain the trade status-quo and minimise economic turmoil -- don't think many would be that unhappy with that.
No trade deals with the rest of the world. Its a stupid idea. Nor does it help us if we don't also stay in the Single market. That is far more important for trade normalisation with the EU than the Customs Union.
There is no chance that the country will wear freedom of movement continuing; I know you might disagree, but IMO immigration was by far the biggest driver of the Brexit vote.
By contrast, I don't think the average Leave voter gave two figs about signing trade deals with the rest of the world.
The point is that being in the Customs Union does not give you the free trade that businesses want. Only the Single Market does that. Being in the Customs Union but not in the Single Market is just dumb. It is the worst of both worlds.
Is Hammond saying we shouldn't stay in the single market too?
I see Philip Hammond is saying Britain should stay in the Customs Union.
From what I understand of how it would work, this seems to me the most consensual way forward. Get control of our immigration system, but at the same time pretty much maintain the trade status-quo and minimise economic turmoil -- don't think many would be that unhappy with that.
No trade deals with the rest of the world. Its a stupid idea. Nor does it help us if we don't also stay in the Single market. That is far more important for trade normalisation with the EU than the Customs Union.
I can see the next Tory Party Political Broadcast.
'This is the Labour Party. They want to spend the taxes you pay and control the country's finances.
In the 2017 election they won 262 seats, the Conservatives won 318 seats.
Labour thinks it won the election even though it won 56 less seats than the Conservatives
Labour can't count.
Vote Conservative. '
Yes that seems about right - offering absolutely no positive reason to vote for them, and just rubbishing Labour. Should work about as well as it did this time round.
Indeed. Doubling down on attacks on Corbyn...what could go wrong?
I can see the next Tory Party Political Broadcast.
'This is the Labour Party. They want to spend the taxes you pay and control the country's finances.
In the 2017 election they won 262 seats, the Conservatives won 318 seats.
Labour thinks it won the election even though it won 56 less seats than the Conservatives
Labour can't count.
Vote Conservative. '
Yes that seems about right - offering absolutely no positive reason to vote for them, and just rubbishing Labour. Should work about as well as it did this time round.
That'll be ten years of a Theresa May minority government, then. Excellent.
The most sensible option is, and has always been, to go to EFTA/EEA and then see how we like it. We could even legislate now for a referendum after five years in it.
This would give hope to Europhiles who think we might change our mind. To hard core Brexiteers who think the public would never accept the Norway solution. And to the sensible middle.
And if we did decide to go it alone after five years, we would be doing it from a position of relative strength after we had already rebuilt our non EU trade deals.
Yep. You and I have long been on the same page about this. As it seems are many other PB Leavers.
Remainers too. I would be happy with this. As would many in the country.
I see Philip Hammond is saying Britain should stay in the Customs Union.
From what I understand of how it would work, this seems to me the most consensual way forward. Get control of our immigration system, but at the same time pretty much maintain the trade status-quo and minimise economic turmoil -- don't think many would be that unhappy with that.
No trade deals with the rest of the world. Its a stupid idea. Nor does it help us if we don't also stay in the Single market. That is far more important for trade normalisation with the EU than the Customs Union.
I see Philip Hammond is saying Britain should stay in the Customs Union.
From what I understand of how it would work, this seems to me the most consensual way forward. Get control of our immigration system, but at the same time pretty much maintain the trade status-quo and minimise economic turmoil -- don't think many would be that unhappy with that.
No trade deals with the rest of the world. Its a stupid idea. Nor does it help us if we don't also stay in the Single market. That is far more important for trade normalisation with the EU than the Customs Union.
There is no chance that the country will wear freedom of movement continuing; I know you might disagree, but IMO immigration was by far the biggest driver of the Brexit vote.
By contrast, I don't think the average Leave voter gave two figs about signing trade deals with the rest of the world.
The point is that being in the Customs Union does not give you the free trade that businesses want. Only the Single Market does that. Being in the Customs Union but not in the Single Market is just dumb. It is the worst of both worlds.
Is Hammond saying we shouldn't stay in the single market too?
I was replying to Danny rather than commenting on Hammond. Although the article only mentions the Customs Union. But Danny was talking about being unable to sell the lack of immigration controls which of course implies no Single Market. If that is the case (and I would hope it isn't) then the Customs Union on its own is worse as it takes away our ability to create our own trade deals.
I can see the next Tory Party Political Broadcast.
'This is the Labour Party. They want to spend the taxes you pay and control the country's finances.
In the 2017 election they won 262 seats, the Conservatives won 318 seats.
Labour thinks it won the election even though it won 56 less seats than the Conservatives
Labour can't count.
Vote Conservative. '
Yes that seems about right - offering absolutely no positive reason to vote for them, and just rubbishing Labour. Should work about as well as it did this time round.
That'll be ten years of a Theresa May minority government, then. Excellent.
Good news for N Ireland at least, the DUP's pork barrels will be overflowing!
I see Philip Hammond is saying Britain should stay in the Customs Union.
From what I understand of how it would work, this seems to me the most consensual way forward. Get control of our immigration system, but at the same time pretty much maintain the trade status-quo and minimise economic turmoil -- don't think many would be that unhappy with that.
No trade deals with the rest of the world. Its a stupid idea. Nor does it help us if we don't also stay in the Single market. That is far more important for trade normalisation with the EU than the Customs Union.
There is no chance that the country will wear freedom of movement continuing; I know you might disagree, but IMO immigration was by far the biggest driver of the Brexit vote.
By contrast, I don't think the average Leave voter gave two figs about signing trade deals with the rest of the world.
The point is that being in the Customs Union does not give you the free trade that businesses want. Only the Single Market does that. Being in the Customs Union but not in the Single Market is just dumb. It is the worst of both worlds.
Does business actually want free trade deals aside from those we already have as part of the European Union? We can trade without free trade deals, and free trade deals with larger countries like America will be written entirely to their advantage, and all trade deals will entail a loss of sovereignty.
I see Philip Hammond is saying Britain should stay in the Customs Union.
From what I understand of how it would work, this seems to me the most consensual way forward. Get control of our immigration system, but at the same time pretty much maintain the trade status-quo and minimise economic turmoil -- don't think many would be that unhappy with that.
No trade deals with the rest of the world. Its a stupid idea. Nor does it help us if we don't also stay in the Single market. That is far more important for trade normalisation with the EU than the Customs Union.
There is no chance that the country will wear freedom of movement continuing; I know you might disagree, but IMO immigration was by far the biggest driver of the Brexit vote.
By contrast, I don't think the average Leave voter gave two figs about signing trade deals with the rest of the world.
There probably was not pre election with a Tory majority, post election and with a hung parliament there is as the Tories will have to get the support of the DUP for any deal and they will force some concessions on free movement for single market access and the Tory Europhile rebels will do the same. So ironically the Labour Leave voters in the North and Midlands and Wales who stuck with Corbyn and failed to give May the big majority she needed for hard Brexit and ending free movement completely have probably ensured free movement will continue in some form
I can see the next Tory Party Political Broadcast.
'This is the Labour Party. They want to spend the taxes you pay and control the country's finances.
In the 2017 election they won 262 seats, the Conservatives won 318 seats.
Labour thinks it won the election even though it won 56 less seats than the Conservatives
Labour can't count.
Vote Conservative. '
Yes that seems about right - offering absolutely no positive reason to vote for them, and just rubbishing Labour. Should work about as well as it did this time round.
Just where exactly then are Labour under Corbyn going to get the extra votes from to get a majority? They did the free stuff for everyone, they got a fair wind, they had their opponents, from Conservative to SNP to Liberal Democrats have crappy campaigns.
They still couldn't do it. What the f**k is wrong with them?
I can see the next Tory Party Political Broadcast.
'This is the Labour Party. They want to spend the taxes you pay and control the country's finances.
In the 2017 election they won 262 seats, the Conservatives won 318 seats.
Labour thinks it won the election even though it won 56 less seats than the Conservatives
Labour can't count.
Vote Conservative. '
Yes that seems about right - offering absolutely no positive reason to vote for them, and just rubbishing Labour. Should work about as well as it did this time round.
Just where exactly then are Labour under Corbyn going to get the extra votes from to get a majority? They did the free stuff for everyone, they got a fair wind, they had their opponents, from Conservative to SNP to Liberal Democrats have crappy campaigns.
They still couldn't do it. What the f**k is wrong with them?
This place is much more fun when both sides can amusingly troll each other. It was a bit sad when even the Labour supporters thought there was more chance of Elvis riding Shergar to victory in the Monaco GP than Corbyn winning.
In one session, TC was the only UK politician in the room when an issue arose - he could have made trouble, but advised the civil servants that they should make a point that supported the government position rather than the Labour Party position.
Politicians were a more decent bunch back then. They seemed to prioritise both country and democracy over party interest. Many of you will be familiar with this tale from the no confidence vote that brought down Callaghan:
In the BBC documentary "A Parliamentary Coup" it was revealed that Bernard Weatherill played a critical role in the defeat of the government in the vote of confidence. As the vote loomed, Labour's deputy Chief Whip, Walter Harrison approached Weatherill to enforce the pairing convention that if a sick MP from the Government could not vote, an MP from the Opposition would abstain to compensate. Weatherill said that pairing had never been intended for votes on Matters of Confidence that meant the life or death of the Government and it would be impossible to find a Conservative MP who would agree to abstain. However, after a moment's reflection, he offered that he himself would abstain, because he felt it would be dishonourable to break his word with Harrison. Harrison was so impressed by Weatherill's offer – which would have effectively ended his political career – that he released Weatherill from his obligation and so the Government fell by one vote on the agreement of gentlemen.
I think the politicians were closer bound to each other and the people. Their generation had fought together in WW2 and while they may have strongly disagreed with each other they at least knew how to lead and that some things are more important than party.
I can see the next Tory Party Political Broadcast.
'This is the Labour Party. They want to spend the taxes you pay and control the country's finances.
In the 2017 election they won 262 seats, the Conservatives won 318 seats.
Labour thinks it won the election even though it won 56 less seats than the Conservatives
Labour can't count.
Vote Conservative. '
Yes that seems about right - offering absolutely no positive reason to vote for them, and just rubbishing Labour. Should work about as well as it did this time round.
Just where exactly then are Labour under Corbyn going to get the extra votes from to get a majority? They did the free stuff for everyone, they got a fair wind, they had their opponents, from Conservative to SNP to Liberal Democrats have crappy campaigns.
They still couldn't do it. What the f**k is wrong with them?
I see we have reached the anger stage...
Lol. You really think the next election is won? Carry on.
That's 3 thread headers in a day by right wing hard brexiteers.
Isn't it time for some balance ?
I'm afraid Mike is a bit of a snob when it comes to allowing the ukip tendency a thread.
Don't even waste the electrons by emailing in.
I have had two UKIP/Brexit related threads published. Both when I was a declared member of UKIP and both with only slight editing which actually helped to improve the points I was trying to make
This place is much more fun when both sides can amusingly troll each other. It was a bit sad when even the Labour supporters thought there was more chance of Elvis riding Shergar to victory in the Monaco GP than Corbyn winning.
I'm enjoying it! I used to get buckets of shit for even suggesting Labour may have a valid point here and there! ps, I'm genuinely sorry the UUP, Alliance +SDLP did so poorly. We wouldn't be in such a poor situation had they won. That, and them being the sensible parties.
From a selfish UUP position I want the DUP to somehow screw this up and for there to be another election quickly. I think SF would lose Foyle and we'd have a good crack at FST and S Antrim. Five years is a long time with no seats.
I see Philip Hammond is saying Britain should stay in the Customs Union.
From what I understand of how it would work, this seems to me the most consensual way forward. Get control of our immigration system, but at the same time pretty much maintain the trade status-quo and minimise economic turmoil -- don't think many would be that unhappy with that.
No trade deals with the rest of the world. Its a stupid idea. Nor does it help us if we don't also stay in the Single market. That is far more important for trade normalisation with the EU than the Customs Union.
There is no chance that the country will wear freedom of movement continuing; I know you might disagree, but IMO immigration was by far the biggest driver of the Brexit vote.
By contrast, I don't think the average Leave voter gave two figs about signing trade deals with the rest of the world.
The point is that being in the Customs Union does not give you the free trade that businesses want. Only the Single Market does that. Being in the Customs Union but not in the Single Market is just dumb. It is the worst of both worlds.
Does business actually want free trade deals aside from those we already have as part of the European Union? We can trade without free trade deals, and free trade deals with larger countries like America will be written entirely to their advantage, and all trade deals will entail a loss of sovereignty.
Interesting that you are now arguing that we don't want new trade deals.
Of course if none are actually negotiated then you'll scream later that the sky has fallen in.
I think I'll bookmark this "we don't need no stinkin' trade deals" post for future use.
I can see the next Tory Party Political Broadcast.
'This is the Labour Party. They want to spend the taxes you pay and control the country's finances.
In the 2017 election they won 262 seats, the Conservatives won 318 seats.
Labour thinks it won the election even though it won 56 less seats than the Conservatives
Labour can't count.
Vote Conservative. '
Yes that seems about right - offering absolutely no positive reason to vote for them, and just rubbishing Labour. Should work about as well as it did this time round.
Just where exactly then are Labour under Corbyn going to get the extra votes from to get a majority? They did the free stuff for everyone, they got a fair wind, they had their opponents, from Conservative to SNP to Liberal Democrats have crappy campaigns.
They still couldn't do it. What the f**k is wrong with them?
I see we have reached the anger stage...
Lol. You really think the next election is won? Carry on.
Far from it. I believe it is all to play for. I am trolling the Conservatives who have yet to come to terms with the fact that they didn't win. (I hold with the cricket analogy, Labour batted out a draw despite never looking like winning).
I can see the next Tory Party Political Broadcast.
'This is the Labour Party. They want to spend the taxes you pay and control the country's finances.
In the 2017 election they won 262 seats, the Conservatives won 318 seats.
Labour thinks it won the election even though it won 56 less seats than the Conservatives
Labour can't count.
Vote Conservative. '
Yes that seems about right - offering absolutely no positive reason to vote for them, and just rubbishing Labour. Should work about as well as it did this time round.
Just where exactly then are Labour under Corbyn going to get the extra votes from to get a majority? They did the free stuff for everyone, they got a fair wind, they had their opponents, from Conservative to SNP to Liberal Democrats have crappy campaigns.
They still couldn't do it. What the f**k is wrong with them?
I see we have reached the anger stage...
Lol. You really think the next election is won? Carry on.
Far from it. I believe it is all to play for. I am trolling the Conservatives who have yet to come to terms with the fact that they didn't win. (I hold with the cricket analogy, Labour batted out a draw despite never looking like winning).
In the county championship Cons would have gained more points
Just where exactly then are Labour under Corbyn going to get the extra votes from to get a majority?
From banishing the perception that he's "unelectable". That was the most important political change last week. Regardless of how the PB analysts classify the result, he looks like a winner to Joe Public now, and success breeds success.
I can see the next Tory Party Political Broadcast.
'This is the Labour Party. They want to spend the taxes you pay and control the country's finances.
In the 2017 election they won 262 seats, the Conservatives won 318 seats.
Labour thinks it won the election even though it won 56 less seats than the Conservatives
Labour can't count.
Vote Conservative. '
Yes that seems about right - offering absolutely no positive reason to vote for them, and just rubbishing Labour. Should work about as well as it did this time round.
Just where exactly then are Labour under Corbyn going to get the extra votes from to get a majority? They did the free stuff for everyone, they got a fair wind, they had their opponents, from Conservative to SNP to Liberal Democrats have crappy campaigns.
They still couldn't do it. What the f**k is wrong with them?
Just where exactly then are Labour under Corbyn going to get the extra votes from to get a majority?
From banishing the perception that he's "unelectable". That was the most important political change last week. Regardless of how the PB analysts classify the result, he looks like a winner to Joe Public now, and success breeds success.
Can you find 8-10% more? I'm not sure he can. The party yes but not the individual.
From a selfish UUP position I want the DUP to somehow screw this up and for there to be another election quickly. I think SF would lose Foyle and we'd have a good crack at FST and S Antrim. Five years is a long time with no seats.
Theres investigation on electoral fraud in Foyle of a sort that we specialise in, you turn up, you've already voted.
I can see the next Tory Party Political Broadcast.
'This is the Labour Party. They want to spend the taxes you pay and control the country's finances.
In the 2017 election they won 262 seats, the Conservatives won 318 seats.
Labour thinks it won the election even though it won 56 less seats than the Conservatives
Labour can't count.
Vote Conservative. '
Yes that seems about right - offering absolutely no positive reason to vote for them, and just rubbishing Labour. Should work about as well as it did this time round.
Just where exactly then are Labour under Corbyn going to get the extra votes from to get a majority? They did the free stuff for everyone, they got a fair wind, they had their opponents, from Conservative to SNP to Liberal Democrats have crappy campaigns.
They still couldn't do it. What the f**k is wrong with them?
I see we have reached the anger stage...
Lol. You really think the next election is won? Carry on.
Far from it. I believe it is all to play for. I am trolling the Conservatives who have yet to come to terms with the fact that they didn't win. (I hold with the cricket analogy, Labour batted out a draw despite never looking like winning).
In the county championship Cons would have gained more points
Indeed. I am not claiming victory. However, there were a few on here (not your good self), who were predicting Labour <150 seats (I seem to remember speculation of <100) and where the Labour floor was. 25%, with some reckoning it could go under 20%. I got withering dismissal. I was with you, that I could not see 100% of the UKIP vote going to Conservative. I grew up with enough to know they'd rather self castrate than do that. So you will allow me my "irrational exuberance", and let me have my fun for a bit, please?
I can see the next Tory Party Political Broadcast.
'This is the Labour Party. They want to spend the taxes you pay and control the country's finances.
In the 2017 election they won 262 seats, the Conservatives won 318 seats.
Labour thinks it won the election even though it won 56 less seats than the Conservatives
Labour can't count.
Vote Conservative. '
Yes that seems about right - offering absolutely no positive reason to vote for them, and just rubbishing Labour. Should work about as well as it did this time round.
Just where exactly then are Labour under Corbyn going to get the extra votes from to get a majority? They did the free stuff for everyone, they got a fair wind, they had their opponents, from Conservative to SNP to Liberal Democrats have crappy campaigns.
They still couldn't do it. What the f**k is wrong with them?
I can see the next Tory Party Political Broadcast.
'This is the Labour Party. They want to spend the taxes you pay and control the country's finances.
In the 2017 election they won 262 seats, the Conservatives won 318 seats.
Labour thinks it won the election even though it won 56 less seats than the Conservatives
Labour can't count.
Vote Conservative. '
Yes that seems about right - offering absolutely no positive reason to vote for them, and just rubbishing Labour. Should work about as well as it did this time round.
Just where exactly then are Labour under Corbyn going to get the extra votes from to get a majority? They did the free stuff for everyone, they got a fair wind, they had their opponents, from Conservative to SNP to Liberal Democrats have crappy campaigns.
They still couldn't do it. What the f**k is wrong with them?
If you look back to April when the election was called, I said i couldn't see the Conservatives getting a massive majority and I stuck by that the whole way through.
I can see the next Tory Party Political Broadcast.
'This is the Labour Party. They want to spend the taxes you pay and control the country's finances.
In the 2017 election they won 262 seats, the Conservatives won 318 seats.
Labour thinks it won the election even though it won 56 less seats than the Conservatives
Labour can't count.
Vote Conservative. '
Yes that seems about right - offering absolutely no positive reason to vote for them, and just rubbishing Labour. Should work about as well as it did this time round.
Just where exactly then are Labour under Corbyn going to get the extra votes from to get a majority? They did the free stuff for everyone, they got a fair wind, they had their opponents, from Conservative to SNP to Liberal Democrats have crappy campaigns.
They still couldn't do it. What the f**k is wrong with them?
I see we have reached the anger stage...
Lol. You really think the next election is won? Carry on.
Far from it. I believe it is all to play for. I am trolling the Conservatives who have yet to come to terms with the fact that they didn't win. (I hold with the cricket analogy, Labour batted out a draw despite never looking like winning).
In the county championship Cons would have gained more points
Indeed. I am not claiming victory. However, there were a few on here (not your good self), who were predicting Labour <150 seats (I seem to remember speculation of <100) and where the Labour floor was. 25%, with some reckoning it could go under 20%. I got withering dismissal. I was with you, that I could not see 100% of the UKIP vote going to Conservative. I grew up with enough to know they'd rather self castrate than do that. So you will allow me my "irrational exuberance", and let me have my fun for a bit, please?</p>
This place is much more fun when both sides can amusingly troll each other. It was a bit sad when even the Labour supporters thought there was more chance of Elvis riding Shergar to victory in the Monaco GP than Corbyn winning.
I'm enjoying it! I used to get buckets of shit for even suggesting Labour may have a valid point here and there! ps, I'm genuinely sorry the UUP, Alliance +SDLP did so poorly. We wouldn't be in such a poor situation had they won. That, and them being the sensible parties.
There's only so long you can keep on fighting for the centre ground and losing before losing heart. Poll after poll tells us that the population are more liberal and reasonable than the politicians and time after time when an election is called everyone herds into pens.
When the very constitutional position of a nation is in question, nothing else really counts.
Which is why, after a good look at the results in full I would be utterly shitting myself if I were an SNP supporter. The vast majority of seats have a clear unionist candidate to opt for next time and I think the Union is going to roar back in Scotland, especially now the Labour Party has its tail up. It's also why I now think Ruth should stay in Holyrood. She has a job to finish. She can help save Great Britain for a generation rather than the couple of year generation Sturgeon supposed,
So right now the prospects for Britain look bleak indeed. Hunker down. Winter is coming.
Still, look on the bright side. Well-off oldies are protected and they'll still get their tax-free fuel allowance as the winter sets in, thanks to the election result.
Hmm My parents are grateful, but they could manage their fuel bills before my Dad hit 65. So the cash won't be going to pay his gas and electric, more holidays and general saving...
Not sure its the best use of public money xD
A German friend asked why the British were not embarrassed that their state pension is so inadequate that its recipients need extra money to buy fuel. I had no answer.
I thought Brown introduced it after VAT was added to domestic fuel.
I can see the next Tory Party Political Broadcast.
'This is the Labour Party. They want to spend the taxes you pay and control the country's finances.
In the 2017 election they won 262 seats, the Conservatives won 318 seats.
Labour thinks it won the election even though it won 56 less seats than the Conservatives
Labour can't count.
Vote Conservative. '
Yes that seems about right - offering absolutely no positive reason to vote for them, and just rubbishing Labour. Should work about as well as it did this time round.
Just where exactly then are Labour under Corbyn going to get the extra votes from to get a majority? They did the free stuff for everyone, they got a fair wind, they had their opponents, from Conservative to SNP to Liberal Democrats have crappy campaigns.
They still couldn't do it. What the f**k is wrong with them?
If you look back to April when the election was called, I said i couldn't see the Conservatives getting a massive majority and I stuck by that the whole way through.
At a conference called Road To Brexit in Copenhagen on Tuesday, Danish Finance Minister Kristian Jensen said Britain was not in a position to bully Denmark or other members of the European Union during the Brexit negotiation process, Politiken reported.
Jensen added: “There are two kinds of European nations. There are small nations and there are countries that have not yet realized they are small nations.”
Britain’s ambassador to Denmark, Dominic Schroeder, hit back, saying he saw no indications “of a diminished or diminishing power.”
Just where exactly then are Labour under Corbyn going to get the extra votes from to get a majority?
From banishing the perception that he's "unelectable". That was the most important political change last week. Regardless of how the PB analysts classify the result, he looks like a winner to Joe Public now, and success breeds success.
I would agree but he's probably got to sustain this image that he won the election for quite long time. Saying cheekily that he's ready to serve as PM with nothing like enough seats is going to get fairly boring soon.
He has to be careful he wasn't riding a Cleggasm that will ebb. Though I certainly don't see him ever losing his seat!
I can see the next Tory Party Political Broadcast.
'This is the Labour Party. They want to spend the taxes you pay and control the country's finances.
In the 2017 election they won 262 seats, the Conservatives won 318 seats.
Labour thinks it won the election even though it won 56 less seats than the Conservatives
Labour can't count.
Vote Conservative. '
Yes that seems about right - offering absolutely no positive reason to vote for them, and just rubbishing Labour. Should work about as well as it did this time round.
Just where exactly then are Labour under Corbyn going to get the extra votes from to get a majority? They did the free stuff for everyone, they got a fair wind, they had their opponents, from Conservative to SNP to Liberal Democrats have crappy campaigns.
They still couldn't do it. What the f**k is wrong with them?
I see we have reached the anger stage...
Lol. You really think the next election is won? Carry on.
Far from it. I believe it is all to play for. I am trolling the Conservatives who have yet to come to terms with the fact that they didn't win. (I hold with the cricket analogy, Labour batted out a draw despite never looking like winning).
In the county championship Cons would have gained more points
Indeed. I am not claiming victory. However, there were a few on here (not your good self), who were predicting Labour <150 seats (I seem to remember speculation of <100) and where the Labour floor was. 25%, with some reckoning it could go under 20%. I got withering dismissal. I was with you, that I could not see 100% of the UKIP vote going to Conservative. I grew up with enough to know they'd rather self castrate than do that. So you will allow me my "irrational exuberance", and let me have my fun for a bit, please?</p>
So right now the prospects for Britain look bleak indeed. Hunker down. Winter is coming.
Still, look on the bright side. Well-off oldies are protected and they'll still get their tax-free fuel allowance as the winter sets in, thanks to the election result.
Hmm My parents are grateful, but they could manage their fuel bills before my Dad hit 65. So the cash won't be going to pay his gas and electric, more holidays and general saving...
Not sure its the best use of public money xD
A German friend asked why the British were not embarrassed that their state pension is so inadequate that its recipients need extra money to buy fuel. I had no answer.
I thought Brown introduced it after VAT was added to domestic fuel.
Even worse. Our pensioners need extra money to afford the VAT on their fuel!
From a selfish UUP position I want the DUP to somehow screw this up and for there to be another election quickly. I think SF would lose Foyle and we'd have a good crack at FST and S Antrim. Five years is a long time with no seats.
Theres investigation on electoral fraud in Foyle of a sort that we specialise in, you turn up, you've already voted.
Tom was being asked about SF shenanigans and he clearly didn't want to talk about it because nobody in GB really believes elections are stolen.
But even at polling stations with a Unionist presiding officer they were bending the rules a wee bit. God knows what they were doing at others
And of course you know the Garrison story from last time they won. That was an outrage.
I actually don't think we would have won FST anyway on Thurs. but Foyle looks well dodgy.
Just where exactly then are Labour under Corbyn going to get the extra votes from to get a majority?
From banishing the perception that he's "unelectable". That was the most important political change last week. Regardless of how the PB analysts classify the result, he looks like a winner to Joe Public now, and success breeds success.
Can you find 8-10% more? I'm not sure he can. The party yes but not the individual.
Yes, why not. He has gone from 20% to 100% of his most implacable opponents: the PLP!
8% of the public is easy peasy, especially with his demographics.
This place is much more fun when both sides can amusingly troll each other. It was a bit sad when even the Labour supporters thought there was more chance of Elvis riding Shergar to victory in the Monaco GP than Corbyn winning.
I'm enjoying it! I used to get buckets of shit for even suggesting Labour may have a valid point here and there! ps, I'm genuinely sorry the UUP, Alliance +SDLP did so poorly. We wouldn't be in such a poor situation had they won. That, and them being the sensible parties.
There's only so long you can keep on fighting for the centre ground and losing before losing heart. Poll after poll tells us that the population are more liberal and reasonable than the politicians and time after time when an election is called everyone herds into pens.
When the very constitutional position of a nation is in question, nothing else really counts.
Which is why, after a good look at the results in full I would be utterly shitting myself if I were an SNP supporter. The vast majority of seats have a clear unionist candidate to opt for next time and I think the Union is going to roar back in Scotland, especially now the Labour Party has its tail up. It's also why I now think Ruth should stay in Holyrood. She has a job to finish. She can help save Great Britain for a generation rather than the couple of year generation Sturgeon supposed, </blockquote Deleted.
At a conference called Road To Brexit in Copenhagen on Tuesday, Danish Finance Minister Kristian Jensen said Britain was not in a position to bully Denmark or other members of the European Union during the Brexit negotiation process, Politiken reported.
Jensen added: “There are two kinds of European nations. There are small nations and there are countries that have not yet realized they are small nations.”
Britain’s ambassador to Denmark, Dominic Schroeder, hit back, saying he saw no indications “of a diminished or diminishing power.”
Comments
From what I understand of how it would work, this seems to me the most consensual way forward. Get control of our immigration system, but at the same time pretty much maintain the trade status-quo and minimise economic turmoil -- don't think many would be that unhappy with that.
and the Official Opposition haven't a clue what to do on brexit - great news if in government anytime soon.
She's bought shame on herself and the party, and while she's still PM it's taboo to mention her failure. Non-compliance results in social & political ostracism.
Everyone inside the conservative tent must now pretend the election didn't happen.
By contrast, I don't think the average Leave voter gave two figs about signing trade deals with the rest of the world.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vXsk0jroOog
Kinnock 1987 229 seats - goes on to lose 1992.
Foot 1983 209 seats resigns.
Isn't it time for some balance ?
https://twitter.com/standardnews/status/874755762525945858
https://twitter.com/fitzy_blue/status/874540974273421313
As those seem an odd selection on their own;
They still couldn't do it. What the f**k is wrong with them?
https://twitter.com/foxbusiness/status/874753250611929088
Of course if none are actually negotiated then you'll scream later that the sky has fallen in.
I think I'll bookmark this "we don't need no stinkin' trade deals" post for future use.
So you will allow me my "irrational exuberance", and let me have my fun for a bit, please?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kübler-Ross_model
Don't let the facts get in the way.
When the very constitutional position of a nation is in question, nothing else really counts.
Which is why, after a good look at the results in full I would be utterly shitting myself if I were an SNP supporter. The vast majority of seats have a clear unionist candidate to opt for next time and I think the Union is going to roar back in Scotland, especially now the Labour Party has its tail up. It's also why I now think Ruth should stay in Holyrood. She has a job to finish. She can help save Great Britain for a generation rather than the couple of year generation Sturgeon supposed,
At a conference called Road To Brexit in Copenhagen on Tuesday, Danish Finance Minister Kristian Jensen said Britain was not in a position to bully Denmark or other members of the European Union during the Brexit negotiation process, Politiken reported.
Jensen added: “There are two kinds of European nations. There are small nations and there are countries that have not yet realized they are small nations.”
Britain’s ambassador to Denmark, Dominic Schroeder, hit back, saying he saw no indications “of a diminished or diminishing power.”
He has to be careful he wasn't riding a Cleggasm that will ebb. Though I certainly don't see him ever losing his seat!
But even at polling stations with a Unionist presiding officer they were bending the rules a wee bit. God knows what they were doing at others
And of course you know the Garrison story from last time they won. That was an outrage.
I actually don't think we would have won FST anyway on Thurs. but Foyle looks well dodgy.
8% of the public is easy peasy, especially with his demographics.
https://www.change.org/p/uk-electoral-commission-general-election-fraud-2017
Den who?