politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Suggesting that the foxhunting ban could be lifted – TMay’s bi
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It's always the way. There similarly isn't enough 'rich' people to raise super large amounts of money from.FrancisUrquhart said:IFS say labours Venezuelan utopia manifesto will cost every family £4k a year.
The definition of rich where taxes are raised certainly ain't going to be 80k, make like 8k.
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(56%) voters believe Jeremy Corbyn would be ‘a disaster as Prime Minister’ - including one in six Labour voters.Scott_P said:
Hmm...0 -
"I'm unconvinced that dressing up in hunting pink and rampaging through the countryside on horseback with packs of hounds is a particularly efficient means of culling"
I think this is the crux of it, not what happens to the fox but what its pursuers wear.
May should ban hunting jackets not hunting then everybody would be happy.
I would suggest that city dwellers never visit a farm or have a drink with farmworkers, its not for the squeamish.0 -
Mr. Calum, not clicked on the link, but, in his defence, I understand proclaiming oneself to be a tiddly tinker is no way to get the ladies on such a website.
Mr. Pulpstar, isn't it three weeks between collections in Anglesey now?0 -
What horrible timing for the LD candidate, 55 is no age, condolences to the Macdonald family.fitaloon said:Christine Jardine's ( Lib dem Edinburgh West) husband Calum Macdonald has died. May have an impact in this seat.
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/15281180.Shock_at_death_of_a__great_servant__of_The_Herald/
And welcome back fitaloon.
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Good luck to them in getting rid of hard Brexit candidates.CarlottaVance said:
It's a pity this has to be done by a small selection of people behind closed doors. It's a good argument for PR - let this 70 strong group of Tories have their own party or sub-party (like CSU / CDU in Germany). Then we can vote for what we want and know what we're getting.0 -
On Topic
Agree this should have been swotted away as "not our priority".
Off topic - grammar schools. I went to one and was at the time extremely grateful to do so rather than go to a "bog standard comprehensive" and stagnating in a system where everyone was treated exactly the same
However bog standard comprehensives and this treatment were largely a figment of my imagination. Rich parents coaching their children up to the eyeballs are skewing the system, and it is perfectly possibly to have everyone at a comprehensive being stretched - yes including the brightest. My son's comprehensive school has just got an across the board "outstanding" from Oftsed. They expect every pupil to do well, have high standards, simple as that.
Streaming, and staff recognising that pupils have different abilities is all that is required to achieve almost all of what grammar school proponents want. This happens in my children's schools extremely effectively. And the top set in English need not be the same 30 kids as the top set in maths, or French.
It is a valid concern that bright, poor pupils do not get enough opportunity, and there are things governments can and should do about this.
But I do not believe grammar schools are the answer. Relentlessly driving up standards and expectations is.0 -
A judge reckons women should be allowed to wear the veil in court:
https://twitter.com/suaviter9/status/8629456369996267520 -
Pulpstar said:
Selly Oak being in trouble is bad for Labour, very very bad.Scott_P said:
I wonder if there's any correlation with these two posts of yours.Pulpstar said:
(56%) voters believe Jeremy Corbyn would be ‘a disaster as Prime Minister’ - including one in six Labour voters.Scott_P said:
Hmm...0 -
ROYAL Bank of Scotland has refused to rule out moving its headquarters to England should the starting gun be fired on a second referendum on Scottish independence.
Chairman Sir Howard Davies yesterday told shareholders the bank would keep them “posted” on any contingency plans to move south if there is a second referendum called as he addressed the AGM.
The bank, which is 73 per cent owned by UK taxpayers, controversially stepped into the constitutional debate in the run-up to the last referendum in 2014 by declaring it would move its head office to London if Scotland voted to leave the United Kingdom.
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/15281978.Royal_Bank_refuses_to_rule_out_referendum_move_south/?ref=mr&lp=60 -
Incidentally although I'm pro hunting I've no idea why its being discussed, I suspect that May has barely if ever mentioned it, its just a spurious stick to beat her with.
Most farmers and hunters aren't fussed, they still kill foxes they just don't have those moronic saboteurs to contend with.0 -
If you're unable to read, I can't help you.freetochoose said:"I'm unconvinced that dressing up in hunting pink and rampaging through the countryside on horseback with packs of hounds is a particularly efficient means of culling"
I think this is the crux of it, not what happens to the fox but what its pursuers wear.
May should ban hunting jackets not hunting then everybody would be happy.
I would suggest that city dwellers never visit a farm or have a drink with farmworkers, its not for the squeamish.0 -
SCons on the wrong side of the BB and the Kirk. Strange times.calum said:0 -
You get funnier every day!AlastairMeeks said:
If you're unable to read, I can't help you.freetochoose said:"I'm unconvinced that dressing up in hunting pink and rampaging through the countryside on horseback with packs of hounds is a particularly efficient means of culling"
I think this is the crux of it, not what happens to the fox but what its pursuers wear.
May should ban hunting jackets not hunting then everybody would be happy.
I would suggest that city dwellers never visit a farm or have a drink with farmworkers, its not for the squeamish.0 -
I find it strange that the one Corbyn policy I support -the increase in the rate of carers' allowance - has received no attention. Having been a carer, I feel there should be far more support and I think this is something all the Parties should look at.0
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To add some balance:TheScreamingEagles said:Pulpstar said:
Selly Oak being in trouble is bad for Labour, very very bad.Scott_P said:
I wonder if there's any correlation with these two posts of yours.Pulpstar said:
(56%) voters believe Jeremy Corbyn would be ‘a disaster as Prime Minister’ - including one in six Labour voters.Scott_P said:
Hmm...
Manchester was brilliant for Labour on the night of the locals. If Corbyn were to be given the chop and Andy Burnham instated before the GE I reckon Labour could perhaps retain 200 seats.0 -
I'm not a great fan of unsolicited advice, but I'd definitely suggest talking about your old chap on the internet in any respect is an infallible method for not getting the ladies, or at least a sure sign of someone who is not getting the ladies.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Calum, not clicked on the link, but, in his defence, I understand proclaiming oneself to be a tiddly tinker is no way to get the ladies on such a website.
Mr. Pulpstar, isn't it three weeks between collections in Anglesey now?0 -
No UKIP in York Central, EC now projects Con gain by 3 points0
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Anybody seen a figure for how many seats UKIP is contesting?0
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May up in the Northeast today, Corbyn in London...0
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A bit more background on York Central.NeilVW said:No UKIP in York Central, EC now projects Con gain by 3 points
http://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/cgi-bin/seatdetails.py?seat=York+Central0 -
Sporting's GE Seats spread markets remain suspended this morning .... strange.0
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Sky News
Corbyn speaking about defence today.
But he's not the kind of person you expect to see out shaking a Bucket for Help for Heroes.0 -
Mr. Divvie, probably sound advice.0
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Clutching at straws:
https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/862957805162123264
If the Conservatives took this seat, they'd be looking at a majority of about 300.0 -
I don't think that this is correct. The reason it didn't come to a vote in the 2010 and 2015 parliaments was very simple: those wanting to overturn the ban knew perfectly well that they would lose any such vote, given the numbers.AlsoIndigo said:It should also be noted that while a similar pledge was made in 2010 and 2015, such a vote has never in those years reached the floor of the Commons, and there is no reason to suspect that it will in the next parliament....
If the next parliament has a very large Tory majority, then I think their calculation will be that this will be the best time to go for it.
As regards the politics of this from Theresa May, I agree with those who have said it's a mistake. She didn't need to say anything, except perhaps that it's a matter for parliament in a free vote and the government would not have a position. That would be enough for the pro-hunting lobby, and wouldn't have given much meat for the anti-hunting lobby to get their claws into (if you pardon the metaphor).0 -
One very important thing to remember also. There are plenty of shire conservatives who voted and campaigned to remain, many after having played the Eurosceptic card for years.foxinsoxuk said:
I am not so convinced that kipper voters can simply be reassigned to the Tories in all areas. It probably is accurate across the shires, as we saw last week. Will the same happen in urban areas in the North and Midlands? probably true for many, but I expect many more to go to DNV or to other parties including Labour.Pulpstar said:
This applies to the Greens somewhat too:DavidL said:
Once we have a figure (and I suspect that it will turn out to be less than that, the figure I saw yesterday was 11 out of 59 in Scotland, for example) the pollsters will have to try to work out what to do about it. Reporting 10% for UKIP doesn't make much sense if only half the country has the option.SimonStClare said:
Not seen a comprehensive list so far, just the odd regional report from the local rag. @isam mentioned yesterday there may be as many as 400 UKiP candidates standing, although there has been no confirmation afaik.DavidL said:Did we ever get a definitive answer to how many seats UKIP are standing in?
Sum through the votes in all the consituencies UKIP is standing in and divide through by the 2015 baseline.
That'll give a multiplication factor which can be applied to the calculated score - the rest of the UKIP votes can then be redistributed as the original UKIP movement has in the poll.
That should be a reasonably quick method.
Mind you we have pollsters like ORB still pumping out fake news regarding Labour and the Tories getting 6 to 8% in Northern Ireland...
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This may help:MikeSmithson said:Anybody seen a figure for how many seats UKIP is contesting?
https://twitter.com/election_data/status/862958410677063680
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The Greens arent standing in York Central either so those EC figures look wrong.
http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/15280242.Greens_withdraw_from_York_Central_fight_to_avoid__splitting_the_vote_/?ref=mr&lp=80 -
The story is a 2 page spread in this week's Stirling Observer (not online yet) - SCON are really getting on the wrong side of this one - decisive action by Ruth could have nipped this one in the bud and triggered a by election which SCON would have walked.Theuniondivvie said:
SCons on the wrong side of the BB and the Kirk. Strange times.calum said:
Most of the SCON supporters I know locally are horrified !!0 -
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It was Tory when I first moved there in the 80's. cant remember exactly when they lost it. I can certainly see some potential for tactical voting there by the LDs and Greens.SimonStClare said:
A bit more background on York Central.NeilVW said:No UKIP in York Central, EC now projects Con gain by 3 points
http://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/cgi-bin/seatdetails.py?seat=York+Central0 -
Result from last night's by election West Norfolk DC Fairstead ward Labour hold
Lab 254 Con 189 UKIP 68 LD 66
2015 result Lab 753/727 UKIP 599 Con 593/4690 -
Somewhat surprisingly, I have a UKIP candidate available to vote for in Islington South & Finsbury. I would have thought they might have found more promising constituencies if resources are scarce.0
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I quite like the idea of Ruthy nipping this one in the bud..calum said:
The story is a 2 page spread in this week's Stirling Observer (not online yet) - SCON are really getting on the wrong side of this one - decisive action by Ruth could have nipped this one in the bud and triggered a by election which SCON would have walked.Theuniondivvie said:
SCons on the wrong side of the BB and the Kirk. Strange times.calum said:
Most of the SCON supporters I know locally are horrified !!0 -
They aren't scarce - I think PB has done it's usual thing of assuming it knows about a party that isn't exactly prominent on this website.AlastairMeeks said:Somewhat surprisingly, I have a UKIP candidate available to vote for in Islington South & Finsbury. I would have thought they might have found more promising constituencies if resources are scarce.
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What might have been...AlastairMeeks said:Somewhat surprisingly, I have a UKIP candidate available to vote for in Islington South & Finsbury. I would have thought they might have found more promising constituencies if resources are scarce.
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The danger for the Conservatives is that they end up with a lot more MPs who feel very strongly -- in either direction -- about Europe. Tony Blair would put the embarrassing stuff in the manifesto so the whips could point to the small print and remind the awkward squad that they themselves had been elected to send small boys up chimneys, or whatever it was. While Theresa May claims to have called the election to win a mandate for her brand of Brexit, unless she spells out what this entails, she might end up with a pyrrhic victory as all the old rows are reignited.TheKingofLangley said:
I disagree with a lot of what Nick Palmer says and still find his transformation from Blairite to Brownite to Millifan to Corbynite pretty amazing even in today's unpredictable, volatile political arena but I think what he says here is pretty close to mark in many ways.NickPalmer said:The main problem for th eTories in this is that it's a weird thing to appear to lead off with when thewy're so far perceived to have said very little about their policies.
They may well increase taxes and NI, but aren't sure.
They may well abolish the triple loc, but won't say definitely.
They are in favour of relaxing planning controls in the countrytside, but won't say how.
But they are DEFINITELY in favour of giving the chance to reintroduce fox-hunting.
Isn't that a bit odd, even if you're a Conservative AND rather like fox-hunting?
I'm very pro-May and will definitely be a Con voter with her as leader (were it Johnson or Gove things would be very different) but have been disappointed with her campaign so far. There needs to be more to it than simply 'best leader to deliver Brexit' and the odd bit of red meat to her right-wing on Grammar Schools and fox hunting.
The polls show that she is the most popular leader since goodness knows when so why is she being kept away from the public? Get her out there meeting people.
Corbyn has had a good campaign so far IMO with a radical manifesto however away with the fairies it may be and lots of out and about with voters showing him in a much better light - definitely better than the Tories. Despite all that there's not a chance in hell I'd vote Labour while he's leader mind...0 -
I think May is a lucky general. This fox thing is just stupid. Having said that, she could probably announce a general cull of all wildlife with illiegal snares as long as she's against Corbyn.0
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I would say the bigger potential Conservative manifesto mistakes would be the guarantees that are being flagged up for immigration in the tens of thousands, no ECJ oversight, no Euro FoM and exit from the Single Market. They probably won't be able to deliver these, except possibly with extreme spin on the results.0
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Who are the Ashfield Independents, and will they hurt Del Piero or the Tories more?0
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Dura_Ace
'How do you know this? When was your vulpine agony meter last calibrated?'
When people supporting a ban on hunting also support a ban on halal & kosher slaughter I will believe they actually care about animal cruelty.
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I'm expecting a quite hefty Tory manifesto so if the Lords play silly buggers she can Salisbury-Addison convention stuff through.FF43 said:I would say the bigger potential Conservative manifesto mistakes would be the guarantees that are being flagged up for immigration in the tens of thousands, no ECJ oversight, no Euro FoM and exit from the Single Market. They probably won't be able to deliver these, except possibly with extreme spin on the results.
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Their leader is ex-LibDem: Jason Zadrozny.tlg86 said:Who are the Ashfield Independents, and will they hurt Del Piero or the Tories more?
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If you think hunts are an effective method of fox control they you are crazy in the membrane.freetochoose said:
So how do you propose that their numbers are controlled?AlastairMeeks said:
City dwellers are very well aware that foxes are a nuisance.freetochoose said:
I never said they were unfamiliar, I said they don't understand that farmers kill them all the time, not for fun but because they are a nuisance.AlastairMeeks said:
You seem to think city dwellers are unfamiliar with foxes. Urban foxes are endemic. I've seen them walking down my street in central London.freetochoose said:My word is there anything that winds people up more than the trivial issue of fox hunting, I live in an area where country folk love animals but aren't sentimental about them. City dwellers need to understand that farmers kill foxes all the time, they don't read them a bedside story first. Foxes are essentially nice looking rats.
That is what city dwellers don't understand, farmers kill things without sentiment but for good reason.0 -
Why doesn't the Labour party actually try to hit the Tory party?
Right-wing points in the Labour manifesto include
* support for NATO
* support for British nuclear weapons
* support for the arms industry
* support for Israel
Near the beginning, it has this right-wing muck:
"Labour understands that wealth creation is a collective endeavour – between investors, workers, public services, and government. Each contributes and each must share equitably in the rewards."
That makes any serious left-wing person cringe.
Stupid crap includes
* bilge about gay and transsexual rights
* lowering voting age to 16 (i.e. the Facebook vote)
Positive promises in the document include:
* higher income tax for the top 5%
* higher corporation tax
* ban zero-hours contracts
* higher penalties for employers who pay less than the minimum wage
* taking action on tax havens
* a public register of beneficial owners for all companies and trusts
* cutting waiting time for NHS treatment
* renationalisation of rail
* renationalisation of what used to be a state mail service
* extension of Freedom of Information Act to companies that run public services
and a measure which is in the right direction but goes nothing like far enough:
* making private schools charge VAT
Unfortunately, the manifesto contains absolutely nothing on
* inheritance tax
* abolition of the monarchy
* hitting the banks
The proposed National Investment Bank will be funded by public money leveraged with private sector finance, with the aim of filling "gaps in lending" by private banks. In other words, Labour proposes a government of bankers' lackeys, rather like the existing one.
Corbyn is no Mélenchon.
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The problem with this type of polling is that they are not including salience. For example, I don't particularly like the idea of fox hunting but it's not something I really care about that much.
They should follow up by asking how influential these issues are when deciding who to vote for?
I would also like to dig a little deeper into some of these answers
Why do the public think zero hours contracts should be banned? I suspect it is because the labour party have constantly denounced them while no-one has ever offered an alternative argument e.g. flexibility0 -
"Putting People Before Politics" Lol that is the Local Lib Dem strapline here.rottenborough said:
Their leader is ex-LibDem: Jason Zadrozny.tlg86 said:Who are the Ashfield Independents, and will they hurt Del Piero or the Tories more?
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Plus me. And unlike you I've got a vote in the GE.Roger said:
There aren't enough of you. Just you and Essex.Sean_F said:
That's good news for those of us who liked the Nasty Party.foxinsoxuk said:
Yep. The Nasty party is back.DavidL said:
Completely agree. It is not going to come close to changing my vote but the key to the success of David Cameron and now Theresa May was the detoxification of the Tory image from where the party was in the sad days of that well known rapper, IDS. This is a backward step which, although not decisive, will make many think, do I really have something in common with that party? Do they reflect my values?AlastairMeeks said:It makes the Conservatives look backward-looking, cruel and obsessed by trivia. Theresa May should never have gone near the subject.
Stupid mistake and getting the Countryside Alliance to deliver leaflets for you in ultra safe seats (post the demise of UKIP) is no compensation at all.0 -
Bear in mind the 2015 manisfesto commitment to stay in the single market, and the method by which it had to be abandoned. If May has a second referendum up her sleeve, the manifesto just becomes more posturing to try to convince the other side that she's serious.FF43 said:I would say the bigger potential Conservative manifesto mistakes would be the guarantees that are being flagged up for immigration in the tens of thousands, no ECJ oversight, no Euro FoM and exit from the Single Market. They probably won't be able to deliver these, except possibly with extreme spin on the results.
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Well it never has been so far.OllyT said:
The opposite also applies. Anti-hunt campaigners were active in the centre of Chester on numerous occasions on the run up to 2015. There were a number of letters in the local press attacking the then MPs pro-hunting stance. He was ousted by 96 votes.HYUFD said:Most people do not put keeping the fox hunting ban as a major factor in how they vote apart from animal rights radicals who will already be voting Labour or LD or SNP or Green anyway. However supporters of foxhunting do put it at the top of their list and they do campaign and leaflet hard if required which would help the Tories in rural marginals, especially in Scotland. Many of them will be far from riffs, indeed in country areas a lot of working class people too are involved in fox hunting
In the areas where pro-hunting helps the Tories I suspect they would win without their assistance
I doubt hunting affects too many votes but it stands to reason that if opponents outnumber supporters by 4 to 1 any affect it does have is likely to be to the benefit of anti-hunting candidates.
I wonder if being pro-hunting in Vauxhall might be the final nail in Kate Hoey's coffin.
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It's very easy to prove that Theresa May has been an opponent of the hunting ban for her entire political career. She didn't "announce" this as part of her electoral strategy; she was asked a direct question. If she hadn't been direct in her response, the headlines would have been "Evil May lies about support for cruel fox slaughter", which wouldn't have been a great deal better for her.0
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Undoubtedly. Mrs May spends more time and energy shoring up her rhetorical position with internal critics than she does on getting a good practical settlement for the UK. In answer to critics who say, "that's crap", she can say "that's what people voted for". When it might be better to give herself a free hand to make it less crap.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm expecting a quite hefty Tory manifesto so if the Lords play silly buggers she can Salisbury-Addison convention stuff through.FF43 said:I would say the bigger potential Conservative manifesto mistakes would be the guarantees that are being flagged up for immigration in the tens of thousands, no ECJ oversight, no Euro FoM and exit from the Single Market. They probably won't be able to deliver these, except possibly with extreme spin on the results.
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Obviously, I'm in one of the UK's most hotly-contested seats so it's different here. But has the campaign really taken off in England? Or is the election a bit weird with Labour defending stoutly in central Birmingham and Leicester?0
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Yes, the Tories haven't got much apart from "we're strong, we mean business, we'll show those foreigners what's what, and Labour are commies led by a man with a beard". Supporting foxhunting is the Tories foaming at the mouth. They're f***ed if they can't have everything they want, and kill any whingeing minnies who say otherwise! The foxhunting lobby is the Tory party on horseback.Lucian_Fletcher said:I think May is a lucky general. This fox thing is just stupid. Having said that, she could probably announce a general cull of all wildlife with illiegal snares as long as she's against Corbyn.
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Mr. 43, worth recalling, though, that if she pisses off the PCP sufficiently they'll throw her overboard.0
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The Tories have very little going for them but the will win a landslide because Labour have nothing at all going for them and both the Lib Dems and Ukip are effectively dead.Cyan said:
Yes, the Tories haven't got much apart from "we're strong, we mean business, we'll show those foreigners what's what, and Labour are commies led by a man with a beard". Supporting foxhunting is the Tories foaming at the mouth. They're f***ed if they can't have everything they want, and kill any whingeing minnies who say otherwise! The foxhunting lobby is the Tory party on horseback.Lucian_Fletcher said:I think May is a lucky general. This fox thing is just stupid. Having said that, she could probably announce a general cull of all wildlife with illiegal snares as long as she's against Corbyn.
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Oh and, as a bonus, one thing the Tories do have going for them is Ruth Davidson who will deliver a number of seats.Lucian_Fletcher said:
The Tories have very little going for them but the will win a landslide because Labour have nothing at all going for them and both the Lib Dems and Ukip are effectively dead.Cyan said:
Yes, the Tories haven't got much apart from "we're strong, we mean business, we'll show those foreigners what's what, and Labour are commies led by a man with a beard". Supporting foxhunting is the Tories foaming at the mouth. They're f***ed if they can't have everything they want, and kill any whingeing minnies who say otherwise! The foxhunting lobby is the Tory party on horseback.Lucian_Fletcher said:I think May is a lucky general. This fox thing is just stupid. Having said that, she could probably announce a general cull of all wildlife with illiegal snares as long as she's against Corbyn.
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OT but I am putting a small wager on Labour regaining Gower. The Green candidate has stood aside and the 1300 or so votes will be more than enough for Labour in the constituency with the smallest Tory majority. Ps UKIP are standing.0
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East Derry for you isn't it this election ?Lucian_Fletcher said:Obviously, I'm in one of the UK's most hotly-contested seats so it's different here. But has the campaign really taken off in England? Or is the election a bit weird with Labour defending stoutly in central Birmingham and Leicester?
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I would support a 100% ban on halal and kosher slaughter. Am I allowed to care about alcohol fuelled fox excrutiation on horseback now?walterw said:Dura_Ace
'How do you know this? When was your vulpine agony meter last calibrated?'
When people supporting a ban on hunting also support a ban on halal & kosher slaughter I will believe they actually care about animal cruelty.
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Not true in Buckingham where some national Lib Dem party elements have used force majeure to remove the approved candidate selected in the snap election process by the Region officials. Lib Dems playing politics to stop the people having a Lib Dem candidate.Pulpstar said:
"Putting People Before Politics" Lol that is the Local Lib Dem strapline here.rottenborough said:
Their leader is ex-LibDem: Jason Zadrozny.tlg86 said:Who are the Ashfield Independents, and will they hurt Del Piero or the Tories more?
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I wonder if the swivel-eyed, right wing loons who have had the BBC bias shtick down pat for years are beginning to realise how ridiculous they have looked and sounded to most people:
https://twitter.com/ChriswMP/status/862922737903382528-1 -
How very dare you. I would be East Londonderry if I was therePulpstar said:
East Derry for you isn't it this election ?Lucian_Fletcher said:Obviously, I'm in one of the UK's most hotly-contested seats so it's different here. But has the campaign really taken off in England? Or is the election a bit weird with Labour defending stoutly in central Birmingham and Leicester?
As it is, no, I'm FST.0 -
Yes, I am sure the turning over of rubbish bins can be a dreadful inconvenience. If they saw the results of a fox attack on a hen house, or in lambing season they might be a little less sentimental.AlastairMeeks said:
City dwellers are very well aware that foxes are a nuisance.freetochoose said:
I never said they were unfamiliar, I said they don't understand that farmers kill them all the time, not for fun but because they are a nuisance.AlastairMeeks said:
You seem to think city dwellers are unfamiliar with foxes. Urban foxes are endemic. I've seen them walking down my street in central London.freetochoose said:My word is there anything that winds people up more than the trivial issue of fox hunting, I live in an area where country folk love animals but aren't sentimental about them. City dwellers need to understand that farmers kill foxes all the time, they don't read them a bedside story first. Foxes are essentially nice looking rats.
That is what city dwellers don't understand, farmers kill things without sentiment but for good reason.
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The boot is being applied hard to both Labour and UKIP, using both overt and covert means. It may soon get applied hard too to the LibDems and SNP. Got to remember that most of Theresa May's stated reasons for calling this election (SNP, House of Lords, Brexit negotiations) were false. The only true one out of the reasons she stated was to get rid of division at Westminster.Lucian_Fletcher said:
The Tories have very little going for them but the will win a landslide because Labour have nothing at all going for them and both the Lib Dems and Ukip are effectively dead.Cyan said:
Yes, the Tories haven't got much apart from "we're strong, we mean business, we'll show those foreigners what's what, and Labour are commies led by a man with a beard". Supporting foxhunting is the Tories foaming at the mouth. They're f***ed if they can't have everything they want, and kill any whingeing minnies who say otherwise! The foxhunting lobby is the Tory party on horseback.Lucian_Fletcher said:I think May is a lucky general. This fox thing is just stupid. Having said that, she could probably announce a general cull of all wildlife with illiegal snares as long as she's against Corbyn.
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Not really, I think there is a bias in the BBC for the reasons given by John Humphries. That numpties like Barry Gardiner think the BBC has a right wing bias (well, it's pro EU, so it does in that sense), then that's his problem.SouthamObserver said:I wonder if the swivel-eyed, right wing loons who have had the BBC bias shtick down pat for years are beginning to realise how ridiculous they have looked and sounded to most people:
https://twitter.com/ChriswMP/status/862922737903382528
EDIT: Just to add, one thing the BBC has improved in the last few weeks is they are saying as standard "the NHS in England" which they weren't doing during the Copeland by-election.0 -
MPs coming out with this rubbish is more despairing than when anonymous social media warriors do.SouthamObserver said:I wonder if the swivel-eyed, right wing loons who have had the BBC bias shtick down pat for years are beginning to realise how ridiculous they have looked and sounded to most people:
https://twitter.com/ChriswMP/status/8629227379033825280 -
I am in favour of lowering the voting age to 16. We have it in Scotland for local and Holyrood elections. It might originally have been a bit of posturing by Alex Salmond, but I see it as beneficial. It means students can participate in elections while at school, possibly as part of a civic studies lesson, and hopefully create a habit of voting when they leave school. There is no evidence that younger voters take their selections any less seriously than older folk.Cyan said:[...]
Stupid crap includes
* lowering voting age to 16 (i.e. the Facebook vote)
[...]
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You're not getting confused with slightly lost Leicester City fans?AlastairMeeks said:
You seem to think city dwellers are unfamiliar with foxes. Urban foxes are endemic. I've seen them walking down my street in central London.freetochoose said:My word is there anything that winds people up more than the trivial issue of fox hunting, I live in an area where country folk love animals but aren't sentimental about them. City dwellers need to understand that farmers kill foxes all the time, they don't read them a bedside story first. Foxes are essentially nice looking rats.
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Do you think the LibDem candidate will get shat upon in the General?Pulpstar said:I have a theory that the Tories find alot of voters out the woodwork who don't bother for locals (More to do with the fact they're the Government rather than the Tories to be honest):
When we have a look at the final result this graph might prove my point...
https://twitter.com/WinLD/status/8626109345477959680 -
Not a lot of activity in Leicester. All three seats look safe for Labour to me, including Liz Kendall in West. Evens on Tories here is far too short, particularly with the kippers standing.Lucian_Fletcher said:Obviously, I'm in one of the UK's most hotly-contested seats so it's different here. But has the campaign really taken off in England? Or is the election a bit weird with Labour defending stoutly in central Birmingham and Leicester?
Posterwatch Leicester: 1 Lab poster in studenty Clarendon park. One Tory poster in largely Asian Evington Rd, both Leicester South. Keith Vaz has posters up, and a few orange diamonds in Oadby and Hinckley (Harborough and Bosworth respectively).0 -
The temptation to play safe with the Tory manifesto must be strong and May is instinctively cautious but in my view it would be a mistake. One of the criticisms of May is that she did not have a mandate. This is it. What sort of a country does she want to build over the next 5 years? What, other than being strong and stable, is her Premiership for? I hope she is brave enough to set out a vision. For good or ill we have a right to know.0
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It was Labour for 105 years in a row so could reasonably switch back, however a couple of issues.valleyboy said:OT but I am putting a small wager on Labour regaining Gower. The Green candidate has stood aside and the 1300 or so votes will be more than enough for Labour in the constituency with the smallest Tory majority. Ps UKIP are standing.
1: The MP is standing again and should get a first time incumbency bonus.
2: UKIP got 4,773 votes last time, if the Tory gets two-thirds of those as many polls show then that's 3,000 votes - which is more than the Green vote.
However:
3: No Plaid Cymru candidate either. That's another 3k votes in the mix.
The absence of the Green alone would likely not have been sufficient, the absence of PC too might be.0 -
Our team is a bit ambivalent about foxes. The mascot is Filbert Fox, but the team comes out to the sound of a hunting horn, and the older badges were of hunting regalia.DavidL said:
You're not getting confused with slightly lost Leicester City fans?AlastairMeeks said:
You seem to think city dwellers are unfamiliar with foxes. Urban foxes are endemic. I've seen them walking down my street in central London.freetochoose said:My word is there anything that winds people up more than the trivial issue of fox hunting, I live in an area where country folk love animals but aren't sentimental about them. City dwellers need to understand that farmers kill foxes all the time, they don't read them a bedside story first. Foxes are essentially nice looking rats.
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I think they'll probably get around 15-16,000 votes or so...rcs1000 said:
Do you think the LibDem candidate will get shat upon in the General?Pulpstar said:I have a theory that the Tories find alot of voters out the woodwork who don't bother for locals (More to do with the fact they're the Government rather than the Tories to be honest):
When we have a look at the final result this graph might prove my point...
https://twitter.com/WinLD/status/8626109345477959680 -
Is Mark Oaten standing again?rcs1000 said:
Do you think the LibDem candidate will get shat upon in the General?Pulpstar said:I have a theory that the Tories find alot of voters out the woodwork who don't bother for locals (More to do with the fact they're the Government rather than the Tories to be honest):
When we have a look at the final result this graph might prove my point...
https://twitter.com/WinLD/status/862610934547795968
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Support by Theresa May and many other Tories for foxhunting is something that Labour should mention in their broadcasts. Foxhunting is not simply an issue produced by intellectial disagreement or a conflict of material interests. Enjoying killing animals is obscene. The vast majority of the British population know that. Come on, Corbyn! Put an image of a slaughtered fox on the Tory banner and show it on people's TV screens. Show the enemy in their true colours.OllyT said:
The opposite also applies. Anti-hunt campaigners were active in the centre of Chester on numerous occasions on the run up to 2015. There were a number of letters in the local press attacking the then MPs pro-hunting stance. He was ousted by 96 votes.HYUFD said:Most people do not put keeping the fox hunting ban as a major factor in how they vote apart from animal rights radicals who will already be voting Labour or LD or SNP or Green anyway. However supporters of foxhunting do put it at the top of their list and they do campaign and leaflet hard if required which would help the Tories in rural marginals, especially in Scotland. Many of them will be far from riffs, indeed in country areas a lot of working class people too are involved in fox hunting
In the areas where pro-hunting helps the Tories I suspect they would win without their assistance
I doubt hunting affects too many votes but it stands to reason that if opponents outnumber supporters by 4 to 1 any affect it does have is likely to be to the benefit of anti-hunting candidates.
Man with a beard? Or a redcoat smearing a child with fox blood? People of Britain, it's your choice.
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Squating surely.Casino_Royale said:
Is Mark Oaten standing again?rcs1000 said:
Do you think the LibDem candidate will get shat upon in the General?Pulpstar said:I have a theory that the Tories find alot of voters out the woodwork who don't bother for locals (More to do with the fact they're the Government rather than the Tories to be honest):
When we have a look at the final result this graph might prove my point...
https://twitter.com/WinLD/status/8626109345477959680 -
Why not lower it to 12? 10? My three year old daughter has figured out to draw an X now can she vote?FF43 said:
I am in favour of lowering the voting age to 16. We have it in Scotland for local and Holyrood elections. It might originally have been a bit of posturing by Alex Salmond, but I see it as beneficial. It means students can participate in elections while at school, possibly as part of a civic studies lesson, and hopefully create a habit of voting when they leave school. There is no evidence that younger voters take their selections any less seriously than older folk.Cyan said:[...]
Stupid crap includes
* lowering voting age to 16 (i.e. the Facebook vote)
[...]
There has to be a line at which you are an adult and that should be where you can vote. School lessons should be kept at school.0 -
I'm glad you agree that's Gower is one to watch with betting possibilities. If I hear any gossip from there I will pass it on here.Philip_Thompson said:
It was Labour for 105 years in a row so could reasonably switch back, however a couple of issues.valleyboy said:OT but I am putting a small wager on Labour regaining Gower. The Green candidate has stood aside and the 1300 or so votes will be more than enough for Labour in the constituency with the smallest Tory majority. Ps UKIP are standing.
1: The MP is standing again and should get a first time incumbency bonus.
2: UKIP got 4,773 votes last time, if the Tory gets two-thirds of those as many polls show then that's 3,000 votes - which is more than the Green vote.
However:
3: No Plaid Cymru candidate either. That's another 3k votes in the mix.
The absence of the Green alone would likely not have been sufficient, the absence of PC too might be.0 -
So why then choose to advocate such an inefficient means of pest control? Indeed, a means *so* inefficient that pro-hunt campaigners have made a virtue of how few foxes die?AlsoIndigo said:
Yes, I am sure the turning over of rubbish bins can be a dreadful inconvenience. If they saw the results of a fox attack on a hen house, or in lambing season they might be a little less sentimental.AlastairMeeks said:
City dwellers are very well aware that foxes are a nuisance.freetochoose said:
I never said they were unfamiliar, I said they don't understand that farmers kill them all the time, not for fun but because they are a nuisance.AlastairMeeks said:
You seem to think city dwellers are unfamiliar with foxes. Urban foxes are endemic. I've seen them walking down my street in central London.freetochoose said:My word is there anything that winds people up more than the trivial issue of fox hunting, I live in an area where country folk love animals but aren't sentimental about them. City dwellers need to understand that farmers kill foxes all the time, they don't read them a bedside story first. Foxes are essentially nice looking rats.
That is what city dwellers don't understand, farmers kill things without sentiment but for good reason.
Hunting with dogs is cruel and unnecessary and the ban should stay.0 -
Is Cons for Leicester East worth a speculative punt? Can't imagine Keith Vaz's recent activities going down too well with the electorate?foxinsoxuk said:
Not a lot of activity in Leicester. All three seats look safe for Labour to me, including Liz Kendall in West. Evens on Tories here is far too short, particularly with the kippers standing.Lucian_Fletcher said:Obviously, I'm in one of the UK's most hotly-contested seats so it's different here. But has the campaign really taken off in England? Or is the election a bit weird with Labour defending stoutly in central Birmingham and Leicester?
Posterwatch Leicester: 1 Lab poster in studenty Clarendon park. One Tory poster in largely Asian Evington Rd, both Leicester South. Keith Vaz has posters up, and a few orange diamonds in Oadby and Hinckley (Harborough and Bosworth respectively).
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The word seems meaningless, and advocates of the progressive alliance should stop faffing about and just join one big party if stopping the tories is the only thing that matters, give up the pretence they believe their own party is best.TW1R64 said:I do resent the way the left have hijacked the word "progressive" and without any challenge in the MSM.
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Mind if I ask what are the odds?valleyboy said:
I'm glad you agree that's Gower is one to watch with betting possibilities. If I hear any gossip from there I will pass it on here.Philip_Thompson said:
It was Labour for 105 years in a row so could reasonably switch back, however a couple of issues.valleyboy said:OT but I am putting a small wager on Labour regaining Gower. The Green candidate has stood aside and the 1300 or so votes will be more than enough for Labour in the constituency with the smallest Tory majority. Ps UKIP are standing.
1: The MP is standing again and should get a first time incumbency bonus.
2: UKIP got 4,773 votes last time, if the Tory gets two-thirds of those as many polls show then that's 3,000 votes - which is more than the Green vote.
However:
3: No Plaid Cymru candidate either. That's another 3k votes in the mix.
The absence of the Green alone would likely not have been sufficient, the absence of PC too might be.
Without having looked them up I would give the MP a 70% chance of holding on (due to first time incumbency bonus).0 -
FF43 said:
I am in favour of lowering the voting age to 16. We have it in Scotland for local and Holyrood elections. It might originally have been a bit of posturing by Alex Salmond, but I see it as beneficial. It means students can participate in elections while at school, possibly as part of a civic studies lesson, and hopefully create a habit of voting when they leave school. There is no evidence that younger voters take their selections any less seriously than older folk.Cyan said:[...]
Stupid crap includes
* lowering voting age to 16 (i.e. the Facebook vote)
[...]
Yeah, it was such a bit of posturing that it was a sticking point for the Edinburgh Agreement, and has been applied to all elections over which Holyrood has control.
How well I remember the crowing about it being a fatal error for Salmond and the breathless reporting of all those secondary school debates that were won by Bettertogether. Now the same people are reduced to predicting that all those feckless Indy youths will turn into their Unionist grannies in the fullness of time.0 -
Remember, this dickhead hasn't been an MP since he lost in 2015Lucian_Fletcher said:
MPs coming out with this rubbish is more despairing than when anonymous social media warriors do.SouthamObserver said:I wonder if the swivel-eyed, right wing loons who have had the BBC bias shtick down pat for years are beginning to realise how ridiculous they have looked and sounded to most people:
https://twitter.com/ChriswMP/status/862922737903382528
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Thank you for your extraordinary insights on the Tory party. As a member, heavily opposed to fox-hunting, who won't have the hunt on his land, I would never have known that.Cyan said:
Yes, the Tories haven't got much apart from "we're strong, we mean business, we'll show those foreigners what's what, and Labour are commies led by a man with a beard". Supporting foxhunting is the Tories foaming at the mouth. They're f***ed if they can't have everything they want, and kill any whingeing minnies who say otherwise! The foxhunting lobby is the Tory party on horseback.Lucian_Fletcher said:I think May is a lucky general. This fox thing is just stupid. Having said that, she could probably announce a general cull of all wildlife with illiegal snares as long as she's against Corbyn.
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Did we have that bet about UKIP and 20%?Philip_Thompson said:
Mind if I ask what are the odds?valleyboy said:
I'm glad you agree that's Gower is one to watch with betting possibilities. If I hear any gossip from there I will pass it on here.Philip_Thompson said:
It was Labour for 105 years in a row so could reasonably switch back, however a couple of issues.valleyboy said:OT but I am putting a small wager on Labour regaining Gower. The Green candidate has stood aside and the 1300 or so votes will be more than enough for Labour in the constituency with the smallest Tory majority. Ps UKIP are standing.
1: The MP is standing again and should get a first time incumbency bonus.
2: UKIP got 4,773 votes last time, if the Tory gets two-thirds of those as many polls show then that's 3,000 votes - which is more than the Green vote.
However:
3: No Plaid Cymru candidate either. That's another 3k votes in the mix.
The absence of the Green alone would likely not have been sufficient, the absence of PC too might be.
Without having looked them up I would give the MP a 70% chance of holding on (due to first time incumbency bonus).0 -
You can't help but wonder how different things would have been. Probably no UK involvement in the Iraq war for starters.
https://twitter.com/labour_history/status/8629176643304816640 -
Oh please. You seem to be trying to make this a line, but it's one policy. One I wouldn't support, but I'd laugh in the face of any canvasser attempting to sway me on the basis of it, however unnecessary bringing it up is.foxinsoxuk said:
Yep. The Nasty party is back.DavidL said:
Completely agree. It is not going to come close to changing my vote but the key to the success of David Cameron and now Theresa May was the detoxification of the Tory image from where the party was in the sad days of that well known rapper, IDS. This is a backward step which, although not decisive, will make many think, do I really have something in common with that party? Do they reflect my values?AlastairMeeks said:It makes the Conservatives look backward-looking, cruel and obsessed by trivia. Theresa May should never have gone near the subject.
Stupid mistake and getting the Countryside Alliance to deliver leaflets for you in ultra safe seats (post the demise of UKIP) is no compensation at all.0 -
Blimey all this talk of the Gower.
I'm on Byron at 1-7 to win 50. With the Tories polling in the mid 40s I think he'll be OK xD
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Thanks for flagging up that one. It's an interesting suggestion and could well be a seat which bucks the trend, for the reasons you and @Philip_Thompson give. I've taken a nibble of the 6/1.valleyboy said:
I'm glad you agree that's Gower is one to watch with betting possibilities. If I hear any gossip from there I will pass it on here.Philip_Thompson said:
It was Labour for 105 years in a row so could reasonably switch back, however a couple of issues.valleyboy said:OT but I am putting a small wager on Labour regaining Gower. The Green candidate has stood aside and the 1300 or so votes will be more than enough for Labour in the constituency with the smallest Tory majority. Ps UKIP are standing.
1: The MP is standing again and should get a first time incumbency bonus.
2: UKIP got 4,773 votes last time, if the Tory gets two-thirds of those as many polls show then that's 3,000 votes - which is more than the Green vote.
However:
3: No Plaid Cymru candidate either. That's another 3k votes in the mix.
The absence of the Green alone would likely not have been sufficient, the absence of PC too might be.0 -
Setting the line at when you can leave home, work full time, get married and pay taxes seems pretty uncontroversial to me.Philip_Thompson said:
Why not lower it to 12? 10? My three year old daughter has figured out to draw an X now can she vote?FF43 said:
I am in favour of lowering the voting age to 16. We have it in Scotland for local and Holyrood elections. It might originally have been a bit of posturing by Alex Salmond, but I see it as beneficial. It means students can participate in elections while at school, possibly as part of a civic studies lesson, and hopefully create a habit of voting when they leave school. There is no evidence that younger voters take their selections any less seriously than older folk.Cyan said:[...]
Stupid crap includes
* lowering voting age to 16 (i.e. the Facebook vote)
[...]
There has to be a line at which you are an adult and that should be where you can vote. School lessons should be kept at school.0 -
In much the same fashion, a failed Gordon Brown premiership after he quit.TheScreamingEagles said:You can't help but wonder how different things would have been. Probably no UK involvement in the Iraq war for starters.
https://twitter.com/labour_history/status/8629176643304816640 -
Blair would probably still have become PM at some point, but after having had ministerial experience.TheScreamingEagles said:You can't help but wonder how different things would have been. Probably no UK involvement in the Iraq war for starters.
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Oh God Not Richard Nabavi too..0
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I love watching a fox hunt https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzo1DMi14JY0
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Urban foxes tend to be bolder than their rural cousins. In the cities, they're primarily scavengers rather than predators, and this affects behaviour.DavidL said:
You're not getting confused with slightly lost Leicester City fans?AlastairMeeks said:
You seem to think city dwellers are unfamiliar with foxes. Urban foxes are endemic. I've seen them walking down my street in central London.freetochoose said:My word is there anything that winds people up more than the trivial issue of fox hunting, I live in an area where country folk love animals but aren't sentimental about them. City dwellers need to understand that farmers kill foxes all the time, they don't read them a bedside story first. Foxes are essentially nice looking rats.
0
