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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Suggesting that the foxhunting ban could be lifted – TMay’s bi

SystemSystem Posts: 12,598
edited May 2017 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Suggesting that the foxhunting ban could be lifted – TMay’s biggest campaign mistake so far

Fox hunting is one of those issues which a small number of people on either side of the argument feel very strongly about. It is something on that could change votes for those with firm views.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,197
    A video of an imam appearing to call for the murder of Jews in a sermon during Friday prayers at a Copenhagen mosque has caused outrage in Denmark.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-39885745
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,629
    Agreed.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,197
    A Liberal Democrat candidate has urged supporters to vote for his Labour rival in a bid to defeat the Conservatives in the general election.

    Richard Baum has been selected by the Lib Dems as their candidate in highly marginal Bury North seat, on 8 June.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-39885399
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,629
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    A Liberal Democrat candidate has urged supporters to vote for his Labour rival in a bid to defeat the Conservatives in the general election.

    Richard Baum has been selected by the Lib Dems as their candidate in highly marginal Bury North seat, on 8 June.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-39885399

    Bloody progressives!
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Those who care strongly enough to make it a driver of their vote are already on either the Tory (pro-liberty) or the left (anti-toff) side.

    This won't change a single vote.

    But it will unlock significant campaigning muscle from the countryside lobby - that has been very helpful to the Tories in the last 2 elections.
  • AlsoIndigoAlsoIndigo Posts: 1,852
    edited May 2017
    Charles said:

    Those who care strongly enough to make it a driver of their vote are already on either the Tory (pro-liberty) or the left (anti-toff) side.

    This won't change a single vote.

    But it will unlock significant campaigning muscle from the countryside lobby - that has been very helpful to the Tories in the last 2 elections.

    Exactly. This or a similar pledge was made in 2015 and 2010, and they don't keep making it because it doesnt work.

    This is another of those issues where people have a view, but it has next to no influence on the way they vote. The number of people that are anti-hunt enough to change from May to Corbyn is the square root of tiny.

    I am sure urban LDs hate it, but they were never going to vote Tory anyway.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    Has this been covered?

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/11/choppers-election-podcast-jean-claude-juncker-trying-get-sack/

    Jean-Claude Juncker, the president of the European Commission, is trying to get David Davis the sack by allowing negative briefings about him, the Brexit secretary has claimed.
  • AlsoIndigoAlsoIndigo Posts: 1,852
    It should also be noted that while a similar pledge was made in 2010 and 2015, such a vote has never in those years reached the floor of the Commons, and there is no reason to suspect that it will in the next parliament. I am sure the leadership of the CA are aware of this, its a about the Tories telling the CA that they feel their pain and they are on their side (without actually doing anything) and the CA having something to point at to get their troops out knocking on doors.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    A blast from the past, a rave from the grave?

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/11/ben-fogle-says-found-infamous-ed-stone-upmarket-restaurant-london/
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,629
    CarlottaVance said:

    A blast from the past, a rave from the grave?

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/11/ben-fogle-says-found-infamous-ed-stone-upmarket-restaurant-london/

    What will Labour come up with this time? :p
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,629
    I note there is no Kipper standing in Don Valley. They got 25% last time... a very big pie for our @Tissue_Price to eat into.
  • TW1R64TW1R64 Posts: 56
    I do resent the way the left have hijacked the word "progressive" and without any challenge in the MSM.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,629
    TW1R64 said:

    I do resent the way the left have hijacked the word "progressive" and without any challenge in the MSM.

    Don't worry, the Progressive Alliance will be crushed at the upcoming election :smiley:
  • MarkLittlewoodMarkLittlewood Posts: 36
    This is a base issue, nothing more. The bar graphs tell you nothing. What you need to measure here is salience. My guess is that 80% do indeed wish to retain the ban on fox hunting, but consider this to be issue 2,378 on their list of concerns. If asked, they want a total ban, but they basically don't care.

    On the other side of the ledger are the people who want fox hunting legalised. This is a small number, but for a measurable proportion (maybe 1% of the electorate?), it is a MASSIVE issue. Maybe a game changer. So, it may well be rational for the Tories to seek out this mini-chuck. And it doesn't matter if the major-chunk disagree.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,629
    (belated) Welcome to PB, @MarkLittlewood!
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    It makes the Conservatives look backward-looking, cruel and obsessed by trivia. Theresa May should never have gone near the subject.
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    edited May 2017
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    A Liberal Democrat candidate has urged supporters to vote for his Labour rival in a bid to defeat the Conservatives in the general election.

    Richard Baum has been selected by the Lib Dems as their candidate in highly marginal Bury North seat, on 8 June.

    The LD candidate has no chance of winning, will take no part in campaigning in Bury and recommends voting for another party. Seems daft to stand a candidate just to lose a deposit.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    First we had "May will fail to get past the FTPA" when that failed it was "CPS to sink campaign and prosecute 30 Tories" Now its "fox hunting".

    Desperate, much?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,316
    AlastairMeeks said:

    It makes the Conservatives look backward-looking, cruel and obsessed by trivia. Theresa May should never have gone near the subject.

    You can forsake me
    Try to break me
    But you can't shake me
    No
    You can despise me
    Demonise me
    It satisfies me
    So

    There is so much love in me
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    AlastairMeeks said:

    It makes the Conservatives look backward-looking, cruel and obsessed by trivia. Theresa May should never have gone near the subject.

    Yes, it was a major strategic error to centre a PPB on Fox hunting. That's what they did, isn't it?
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    edited May 2017
    RobD said:

    I note there is no Kipper standing in Don Valley. They got 25% last time... a very big pie for our @Tissue_Price to eat into.

    We at Auchentennach Fine Pies refute your disgraceful inference that we "eat into" any UKIP personage let alone a meagre 25% content !!
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,629
    CarlottaVance said:

    First we had "May will fail to get past the FTPA" when that failed it was "CPS to sink campaign and prosecute 30 Tories" Now its "fox hunting".

    Desperate, much?

    I am very much looking forward to the abolition of the FTPA in the upcoming parliament.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    JackW said:

    RobD said:

    I note there is no Kipper standing in Don Valley. They got 25% last time... a very big pie for our @Tissue_Price to eat into.

    We at Auchentennach Fine Pies refute your disgraceful inference that we "eat into" any UKIP personage let alone a meagre 25% content !!
    You mean "mechanically recovered kippers" are not in the secret recipe? You can tell me - I won't breathe a word!
  • madasafishmadasafish Posts: 659
    I live in the countryside..Foxes in the field behind. I have never hunted - I would fall off the horse.. And don't follow it..

    The League Against Cruel Sports say "“Are we really going to turn the clock back to a time when killing animals for fun was legal?"

    Which is utter nonsense..considering all the other animals you can legally kill..and in the case of rats you SHOULD kill..

    So frankly I - and many others - don't give a damn about the issue.

    | Many City dwellers have not got a clue about the countryside..
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,629
    JackW said:

    RobD said:

    I note there is no Kipper standing in Don Valley. They got 25% last time... a very big pie for our @Tissue_Price to eat into.

    We at Auchentennach Fine Pies refute your disgraceful inference that we "eat into" any UKIP personage
    let alone a meagre 25% content !!
    My apologies. Are Auchentennach Pies 100% UKIP? :p

    (Also, I hope said pies are offered gratis for any patron of the Auchentennach gay pleasure grounds, such as myself).
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,665
    madasafish said:

    I live in the countryside..Foxes in the field behind. I have never hunted - I would fall off the horse.. And don't follow it..

    The League Against Cruel Sports say "“Are we really going to turn the clock back to a time when killing animals for fun was legal?"

    Which is utter nonsense..considering all the other animals you can legally kill..and in the case of rats you SHOULD kill..

    So frankly I - and many others - don't give a damn about the issue.

    | Many City dwellers have not got a clue about the countryside..

    There is a difference between killing an animal for a perceived necessity like pest control and torturing one to death as part of a pissed up laugh.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,629
    Dura_Ace said:

    madasafish said:

    I live in the countryside..Foxes in the field behind. I have never hunted - I would fall off the horse.. And don't follow it..

    The League Against Cruel Sports say "“Are we really going to turn the clock back to a time when killing animals for fun was legal?"

    Which is utter nonsense..considering all the other animals you can legally kill..and in the case of rats you SHOULD kill..

    So frankly I - and many others - don't give a damn about the issue.

    | Many City dwellers have not got a clue about the countryside..

    There is a difference between killing an animal for a perceived necessity like pest control and torturing one to death as part of a pissed up laugh.
    It's an unnecessary distraction.

    If she want to repeal old bills, why not the HoL Act 1999. :smiley:
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    And on the BBC UK news site, the leading headlines are:

    "I'm not a Pacifist" says Corbyn

    and

    "Labour has deserted working class" - May

    I wonder which will be believed?
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    CarlottaVance said:

    JackW said:

    RobD said:

    I note there is no Kipper standing in Don Valley. They got 25% last time... a very big pie for our @Tissue_Price to eat into.

    We at Auchentennach Fine Pies refute your disgraceful inference that we "eat into" any UKIP personage let alone a meagre 25% content !!
    You mean "mechanically recovered kippers" are not in the secret recipe? You can tell me - I won't breathe a word!
    You are most welcome to visit Auchentennach Castle to see for yourself ....

    On a one off basis .... :naughty:
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    Dura_Ace said:

    madasafish said:

    I live in the countryside..Foxes in the field behind. I have never hunted - I would fall off the horse.. And don't follow it..

    The League Against Cruel Sports say "“Are we really going to turn the clock back to a time when killing animals for fun was legal?"

    Which is utter nonsense..considering all the other animals you can legally kill..and in the case of rats you SHOULD kill..

    So frankly I - and many others - don't give a damn about the issue.

    | Many City dwellers have not got a clue about the countryside..

    torturing one to death as part of a pissed up laugh.
    You mean angling?
  • RobinWiggsRobinWiggs Posts: 621
    It's a distraction, but could have a minor impact upon urban Lab/UKIP > Con switchers in that it reinforces the "toffs" meme that Mrs May is trying hard to dispel (and is contrary to today's news that "Lab had deserted the working classes".)

    On the reverse side, if it unlocks Countryside Alliance footsoldiers again, It will be useful in rural Lib Dem facing battles.

    Either way it will have been a carefully thought out position from the PM. She doesn't tend to blunder into unexpected statements.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    RobD said:

    JackW said:

    RobD said:

    I note there is no Kipper standing in Don Valley. They got 25% last time... a very big pie for our @Tissue_Price to eat into.

    We at Auchentennach Fine Pies refute your disgraceful inference that we "eat into" any UKIP personage
    let alone a meagre 25% content !!
    My apologies. Are Auchentennach Pies 100% UKIP? :p

    (Also, I hope said pies are offered gratis for any patron of the Auchentennach gay pleasure grounds, such as myself).
    Visitors to Auchentennach find the flesh pots .. :smiley: .... so overwhelming that life is never the same again ....
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,250
    edited May 2017
    CarlottaVance said:

    And on the BBC UK news site, the leading headlines are:

    "I'm not a Pacifist" says Corbyn

    and

    "Labour has deserted working class" - May

    I wonder which will be believed?

    I think the killers for Labour in the Com Res poll were people favouring Conservative over Labour policies by 51-31%, thinking Corbyn would be a disaster as PM by 56-30%, and thinking the Conservatives have the best campaign by 42-20%.

    It doesn't matter if some Labour policies are popular if people distrust their leader, and think they're unaffordable.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,250
    CarlottaVance said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    madasafish said:

    I live in the countryside..Foxes in the field behind. I have never hunted - I would fall off the horse.. And don't follow it..

    The League Against Cruel Sports say "“Are we really going to turn the clock back to a time when killing animals for fun was legal?"

    Which is utter nonsense..considering all the other animals you can legally kill..and in the case of rats you SHOULD kill..

    So frankly I - and many others - don't give a damn about the issue.

    | Many City dwellers have not got a clue about the countryside..

    torturing one to death as part of a pissed up laugh.
    You mean angling?
    Personally, I've always preferred badger baiting.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,629
    JackW said:

    RobD said:

    JackW said:

    RobD said:

    I note there is no Kipper standing in Don Valley. They got 25% last time... a very big pie for our @Tissue_Price to eat into.

    We at Auchentennach Fine Pies refute your disgraceful inference that we "eat into" any UKIP personage
    let alone a meagre 25% content !!
    My apologies. Are Auchentennach Pies 100% UKIP? :p

    (Also, I hope said pies are offered gratis for any patron of the Auchentennach gay pleasure grounds, such as myself).
    Visitors to Auchentennach find the flesh pots .. :smiley: .... so overwhelming that life is never the same again ....
    I can attest to that. :D
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    Was there a VI in the Comres poll?
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    As well as the UKIP most seats bet, there was another fairly punchy bet yesterday:

    https://twitter.com/david_powles/status/862769213513060354
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,665
    CarlottaVance said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    madasafish said:

    I live in the countryside..Foxes in the field behind. I have never hunted - I would fall off the horse.. And don't follow it..

    The League Against Cruel Sports say "“Are we really going to turn the clock back to a time when killing animals for fun was legal?"

    Which is utter nonsense..considering all the other animals you can legally kill..and in the case of rats you SHOULD kill..

    So frankly I - and many others - don't give a damn about the issue.

    | Many City dwellers have not got a clue about the countryside..

    torturing one to death as part of a pissed up laugh.
    You mean angling?
    I'd agree it's in the same category but we'll get to it once the fox botherers have been fucked off.
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    Front pages still dominated by Labour’s leaked manifest, with mixed reviews.

    ‘Party backs radical manifesto’ claims the Guardian, while the Times leads with ‘Labour fights civil war over hard-left manifesto. Telegraph goes with ‘Labour MPs ditch Corbyn manifesto’, the Indie has ‘Labour’s £50bn wish list and the Mail ‘Corbyn’s fantasy land.

    Andrew Hawkins @ComRes sums up the problem. - ComRes for @DailyMirror 34% are more likely to vote Lab having heard/read of policies, 47% less likely to.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Dura_Ace said:

    madasafish said:

    I live in the countryside..Foxes in the field behind. I have never hunted - I would fall off the horse.. And don't follow it..

    The League Against Cruel Sports say "“Are we really going to turn the clock back to a time when killing animals for fun was legal?"

    Which is utter nonsense..considering all the other animals you can legally kill..and in the case of rats you SHOULD kill..

    So frankly I - and many others - don't give a damn about the issue.

    | Many City dwellers have not got a clue about the countryside..

    There is a difference between killing an animal for a perceived necessity like pest control and torturing one to death as part of a pissed up laugh.
    Hunted foxes are killed at least as painlessly as those killed in any other way.

    It's small-time snobs like you that are the most depressing feature of the UK. The more vociferous Remainers clearly revel in Brexit because whatever its drawbacks, it legitimises their saying out loud what they've always thought, how stupid and horrible the proles are. Now you've found something to hate "toffs" about too (and of the people I hunt with, I would guess only about 20% are higher-rate taxpayers). Well done you.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Dura_Ace said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    madasafish said:

    I live in the countryside..Foxes in the field behind. I have never hunted - I would fall off the horse.. And don't follow it..

    The League Against Cruel Sports say "“Are we really going to turn the clock back to a time when killing animals for fun was legal?"

    Which is utter nonsense..considering all the other animals you can legally kill..and in the case of rats you SHOULD kill..

    So frankly I - and many others - don't give a damn about the issue.

    | Many City dwellers have not got a clue about the countryside..

    torturing one to death as part of a pissed up laugh.
    You mean angling?
    I'd agree it's in the same category but we'll get to it once the fox botherers have been fucked off.
    You do sound enviably coherent and intelligent.
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    SquareRoot said:

    Was there a VI in the Comres poll?

    No.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,665
    Ishmael_Z said:



    Hunted foxes are killed at least as painlessly as those killed in any other way.

    How do you know this? When was your vulpine agony meter last calibrated?
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    SimonStClare said:

    SquareRoot said:

    Was there a VI in the Comres poll?

    No.
    Perhaps the VI part was too depressing
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,629
    SquareRoot said:

    SimonStClare said:

    SquareRoot said:

    Was there a VI in the Comres poll?

    No.
    Perhaps the VI part was too depressing
    Last one was Con 50% :D:p
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    @CarlottaVance Is every criticism of the Conservatives 'desperate'? Most know that this isn't going to impact the election, that doesn't mean they can't disagree with May's stance on fox-hunting, or indeed her bringing it up at this time. The country has way more concerning issues facing it right now than fox-hunting.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    Dura_Ace said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    madasafish said:

    I live in the countryside..Foxes in the field behind. I have never hunted - I would fall off the horse.. And don't follow it..

    The League Against Cruel Sports say "“Are we really going to turn the clock back to a time when killing animals for fun was legal?"

    Which is utter nonsense..considering all the other animals you can legally kill..and in the case of rats you SHOULD kill..

    So frankly I - and many others - don't give a damn about the issue.

    | Many City dwellers have not got a clue about the countryside..

    torturing one to death as part of a pissed up laugh.
    You mean angling?
    I'd agree it's in the same category but we'll get to it once the fox botherers have been fucked off.
    Will that be before or after Halal butchery?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,022
    AlastairMeeks said:

    As well as the UKIP most seats bet, there was another fairly punchy bet yesterday:

    https://twitter.com/david_powles/status/862769213513060354

    Why did he go to BetFred and not Betfair?
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 10,082
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    madasafish said:

    I live in the countryside..Foxes in the field behind. I have never hunted - I would fall off the horse.. And don't follow it..

    The League Against Cruel Sports say "“Are we really going to turn the clock back to a time when killing animals for fun was legal?"

    Which is utter nonsense..considering all the other animals you can legally kill..and in the case of rats you SHOULD kill..

    So frankly I - and many others - don't give a damn about the issue.

    | Many City dwellers have not got a clue about the countryside..

    There is a difference between killing an animal for a perceived necessity like pest control and torturing one to death as part of a pissed up laugh.
    Hunted foxes are killed at least as painlessly as those killed in any other way.

    It's small-time snobs like you that are the most depressing feature of the UK. The more vociferous Remainers clearly revel in Brexit because whatever its drawbacks, it legitimises their saying out loud what they've always thought, how stupid and horrible the proles are. Now you've found something to hate "toffs" about too (and of the people I hunt with, I would guess only about 20% are higher-rate taxpayers). Well done you.
    "...the unspeakable in full pursuit of the uneatable,"
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Dura_Ace said:

    Ishmael_Z said:



    Hunted foxes are killed at least as painlessly as those killed in any other way.

    How do you know this? When was your vulpine agony meter last calibrated?
    You possibly think you are being clever, but what is an agony meter? How would it work?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,022
    Rookie mistake from Mrs May.

    She should have followed Dave's lead on this topic.

    Kept it low key and not expressed her own view.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,107
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Rookie mistake from Mrs May.

    She should have followed Dave's lead on this topic.

    Kept it low key and not expressed her own view.

    Perhaps she was referring to Liam.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,022
    Jonathan said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Rookie mistake from Mrs May.

    She should have followed Dave's lead on this topic.

    Kept it low key and not expressed her own view.

    Perhaps she was referring to Liam.
    Now that's a policy we could all support.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,000
    AlastairMeeks said:

    It makes the Conservatives look backward-looking, cruel and obsessed by trivia. Theresa May should never have gone near the subject.

    Completely agree. It is not going to come close to changing my vote but the key to the success of David Cameron and now Theresa May was the detoxification of the Tory image from where the party was in the sad days of that well known rapper, IDS. This is a backward step which, although not decisive, will make many think, do I really have something in common with that party? Do they reflect my values?

    Stupid mistake and getting the Countryside Alliance to deliver leaflets for you in ultra safe seats (post the demise of UKIP) is no compensation at all.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    logical_song said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    madasafish said:

    I live in the countryside..Foxes in the field behind. I have never hunted - I would fall off the horse.. And don't follow it..

    The League Against Cruel Sports say "“Are we really going to turn the clock back to a time when killing animals for fun was legal?"

    Which is utter nonsense..considering all the other animals you can legally kill..and in the case of rats you SHOULD kill..

    So frankly I - and many others - don't give a damn about the issue.

    | Many City dwellers have not got a clue about the countryside..

    There is a difference between killing an animal for a perceived necessity like pest control and torturing one to death as part of a pissed up laugh.
    Hunted foxes are killed at least as painlessly as those killed in any other way.

    It's small-time snobs like you that are the most depressing feature of the UK. The more vociferous Remainers clearly revel in Brexit because whatever its drawbacks, it legitimises their saying out loud what they've always thought, how stupid and horrible the proles are. Now you've found something to hate "toffs" about too (and of the people I hunt with, I would guess only about 20% are higher-rate taxpayers). Well done you.
    "...the unspeakable in full pursuit of the uneatable,"
    I have always dreamed of seeing a post of yours which did not contain serious errors of fact and logic; I would have thought even you could manage it with a partial quotation lifted off the internet. But no: "the unspeakable in pursuit of the uneatable" is what Wilde wrote. Incidentally, he didn't say it directly, he put it in the mouth of a character in a play who turns out to be a twat.

    But please, regale us with the views of other convicted paedophiles. What did Jimmy think about it? Gary?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,000
    SimonStClare said:

    Front pages still dominated by Labour’s leaked manifest, with mixed reviews.

    ‘Party backs radical manifesto’ claims the Guardian, while the Times leads with ‘Labour fights civil war over hard-left manifesto. Telegraph goes with ‘Labour MPs ditch Corbyn manifesto’, the Indie has ‘Labour’s £50bn wish list and the Mail ‘Corbyn’s fantasy land.

    Andrew Hawkins @ComRes sums up the problem. - ComRes for @DailyMirror 34% are more likely to vote Lab having heard/read of policies, 47% less likely to.

    £50bn wish list? Did they get past the first couple of pages?
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    DavidL said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    It makes the Conservatives look backward-looking, cruel and obsessed by trivia. Theresa May should never have gone near the subject.

    Completely agree. It is not going to come close to changing my vote but the key to the success of David Cameron and now Theresa May was the detoxification of the Tory image from where the party was in the sad days of that well known rapper, IDS. This is a backward step which, although not decisive, will make many think, do I really have something in common with that party? Do they reflect my values?

    Stupid mistake and getting the Countryside Alliance to deliver leaflets for you in ultra safe seats (post the demise of UKIP) is no compensation at all.
    Yep. The Nasty party is back.

  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,364
    Dura_Ace said:

    Ishmael_Z said:



    Hunted foxes are killed at least as painlessly as those killed in any other way.

    How do you know this? When was your vulpine agony meter last calibrated?
    I'm not going to get involved with this discussion as it always generates more heat than light, and I doubt anyone will ever be persuaded to change their view by forum warriors. But I will just add a link to the Burns report into foxhunting, which is worth a read:

    http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/frame/20080726235533/http://www.huntinginquiry.gov.uk/mainsections/report.pdf
  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    CarlottaVance said:

    A blast from the past, a rave from the grave?

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/11/ben-fogle-says-found-infamous-ed-stone-upmarket-restaurant-london/

    Steve Vanhinsbergh, co-owner of Stone Circle, also said the slab was unlikely to have been strong and stable enough to be installed in the restaurant garden.
  • ProdicusProdicus Posts: 658
    Getting really obvious that every BBC radio news bulletin opens with 'Labour' or 'Jeremy Corbyn'. You'd think someone in Broadcasting House would notice and possibly give a small cough.
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    DavidL said:

    SimonStClare said:

    Front pages still dominated by Labour’s leaked manifest, with mixed reviews.

    ‘Party backs radical manifesto’ claims the Guardian, while the Times leads with ‘Labour fights civil war over hard-left manifesto. Telegraph goes with ‘Labour MPs ditch Corbyn manifesto’, the Indie has ‘Labour’s £50bn wish list and the Mail ‘Corbyn’s fantasy land.

    Andrew Hawkins @ComRes sums up the problem. - ComRes for @DailyMirror 34% are more likely to vote Lab having heard/read of policies, 47% less likely to.

    £50bn wish list? Did they get past the first couple of pages?
    :lol: – I’ve seen cost estimates at 5 times that figure, but it’s the Indie (i), they're rubbish.
  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    AlastairMeeks said:

    It makes the Conservatives look backward-looking, cruel and obsessed by trivia. Theresa May should never have gone near the subject.

    She was asked a question. If she'd ducked it she would have been criticised for that too.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,782
    Grammar Schools were her biggest mistake but this isn't far behind. For someone so cautious she's not making a great start. Even worse corbyn isn't turning out to be the donkey many of us predicted. He's finally got people's attention and he isn't talking rubbish.

    Neither is Thornberry. Brexit taught us that you only need two or three spokespeople so as long as he hides Abbott and McDonnell this could yet be an unexpected election.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,629
    Roger said:

    Grammar Schools were her biggest mistake but this isn't far behind. For someone so cautious she's not making a great start. Even worse corbyn isn't turning out to be the donkey many of us predicted. He's finally got people's attention and he isn't talking rubbish.

    Neither is Thornberry. Brexit taught us that you only need two or three spokespeople so as long as he hides Abbott and McDonnell this could yet be an unexpected election.

    According to the polls she is playing a blinder. :)
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,512
    Dura_Ace said:

    Ishmael_Z said:



    Hunted foxes are killed at least as painlessly as those killed in any other way.

    How do you know this? When was your vulpine agony meter last calibrated?
    Well, I think we'd all agree it's quicker and less painful than gassing, snaring or poisoning (or at least, anyone who knows anything about those three would agree).

    The most humane way to kill a fox is lamping, which is usually more or less instantaneous. However, there are drawbacks to it. For one thing, foxes are clever and tend not to go near big strange things smelling of oil parked in a damn great field in the middle of the night. Also, lamping isn't exactly safe - in the month the hunting act was passed two people were killed in Herefordshire, one of them a boy of twelve, after a lamping bullet missed its target (quite what he was doing out and about at that time of night I do not know).

    Arguably the most coherent reason to repeal this particular law however is that it is badly written and practically unenforceable (just like every other bill passed by Blair's government). I think there have only been something like 9 successful prosecutions of hunts under it, at least one of which was privately funded - most of the convictions relate to poaching which could easily be covered by other acts.

    It may have been forgotten that Cameron did try to amend it to bring it in line with the much more effective and better written law in Scotland, but was, ironically, blocked by the SNP announcing they would vote against it despite it being (a) England only and (b) intended to apply Scottish law to England!
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,742
    On topic: I seem to recall an early announcement on fox hunting from the Tories in GE2015 too (hopefully I'm not misremembering). I suspect it is something they hurry out of the way as an early announcement because it keeps the traditional rural supporters happy, but then tends to fade into the background as an issue because of the noise of the campaign - this suits the Tories because they know it's not widely supported.
  • LordWakefieldLordWakefield Posts: 144
    AlastairMeeks said:

    As well as the UKIP most seats bet, there was another fairly punchy bet yesterday:

    https://twitter.com/david_powles/status/862769213513060354

    And hedged on the exchange for a small loss. How much would it cost Betfred to place a front page advert?
  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    Dura_Ace said:

    Ishmael_Z said:



    Hunted foxes are killed at least as painlessly as those killed in any other way.

    How do you know this? When was your vulpine agony meter last calibrated?
    It was in the report Blair commissioned before Labour banned it "for the miners".
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,782
    DavidL said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    It makes the Conservatives look backward-looking, cruel and obsessed by trivia. Theresa May should never have gone near the subject.

    Completely agree. It is not going to come close to changing my vote but the key to the success of David Cameron and now Theresa May was the detoxification of the Tory image from where the party was in the sad days of that well known rapper, IDS. This is a backward step which, although not decisive, will make many think, do I really have something in common with that party? Do they reflect my values?

    Stupid mistake and getting the Countryside Alliance to deliver leaflets for you in ultra safe seats (post the demise of UKIP) is no compensation at all.
    Correct. All those thinking she's a different type of Tory will be having a rethink.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Rookie mistake from Mrs May.

    She should have followed Dave's lead on this topic.

    Kept it low key and not expressed her own view.

    The Conservatives will hold a parliamentary vote on repealing the fox hunting ban if they win the next election, David Cameron has said.

    The Prime Minister, who has previously ridden with the Heythrop Hunt in Oxfordshire, said he believed in the “freedom to hunt” and wanted fox hunting legalised.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/david-cameron-says-he-wants-to-repeal-the-fox-hunting-ban-10091571.html
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    edited May 2017
    Roger said:

    DavidL said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    It makes the Conservatives look backward-looking, cruel and obsessed by trivia. Theresa May should never have gone near the subject.

    Completely agree. It is not going to come close to changing my vote but the key to the success of David Cameron and now Theresa May was the detoxification of the Tory image from where the party was in the sad days of that well known rapper, IDS. This is a backward step which, although not decisive, will make many think, do I really have something in common with that party? Do they reflect my values?

    Stupid mistake and getting the Countryside Alliance to deliver leaflets for you in ultra safe seats (post the demise of UKIP) is no compensation at all.
    Correct. All those thinking she's a different type of Tory will be having a rethink.

    All of them? I doubt many even heard it.. People seem to think voters listen to minutiae.. they don't

    Storm in a teacup imho.


  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,512
    Roger said:

    He isn't talking rubbish.

    Neither is Thornberry. Brexit taught us that you only need two or three spokespeople so as long as he hides Abbott and McDonnell this could yet be an unexpected election.

    And Rayner. And Burgon. And Long-Bailey. And Smith...

    Frankly I'm not sure I do agree he isn't talking rubbish either. Although his saying he isn't a pacifist confirms what we all knew, that will not only upset his remaining core vote but opens up a number of potential attack lines given in war or terrorism he has always supported the national enemy, or said he would not stop them in the case of a hypothetical Paris-style attack.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    foxinsoxuk said:

    DavidL said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    It makes the Conservatives look backward-looking, cruel and obsessed by trivia. Theresa May should never have gone near the subject.

    Completely agree. It is not going to come close to changing my vote but the key to the success of David Cameron and now Theresa May was the detoxification of the Tory image from where the party was in the sad days of that well known rapper, IDS. This is a backward step which, although not decisive, will make many think, do I really have something in common with that party? Do they reflect my values?

    Stupid mistake and getting the Countryside Alliance to deliver leaflets for you in ultra safe seats (post the demise of UKIP) is no compensation at all.
    Yep. The Nasty party is back.

    Politicians should be in politics to do what they believe is right, not what they think will get votes. Otherwise they suffer the fate of the LDs, where people look at them and ask: what are they actually for?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,250
    foxinsoxuk said:

    DavidL said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    It makes the Conservatives look backward-looking, cruel and obsessed by trivia. Theresa May should never have gone near the subject.

    Completely agree. It is not going to come close to changing my vote but the key to the success of David Cameron and now Theresa May was the detoxification of the Tory image from where the party was in the sad days of that well known rapper, IDS. This is a backward step which, although not decisive, will make many think, do I really have something in common with that party? Do they reflect my values?

    Stupid mistake and getting the Countryside Alliance to deliver leaflets for you in ultra safe seats (post the demise of UKIP) is no compensation at all.
    Yep. The Nasty party is back.

    That's good news for those of us who liked the Nasty Party.
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    Roger said:

    DavidL said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    It makes the Conservatives look backward-looking, cruel and obsessed by trivia. Theresa May should never have gone near the subject.

    Completely agree. It is not going to come close to changing my vote but the key to the success of David Cameron and now Theresa May was the detoxification of the Tory image from where the party was in the sad days of that well known rapper, IDS. This is a backward step which, although not decisive, will make many think, do I really have something in common with that party? Do they reflect my values?

    Stupid mistake and getting the Countryside Alliance to deliver leaflets for you in ultra safe seats (post the demise of UKIP) is no compensation at all.
    Correct. All those thinking she's a different type of Tory will be having a rethink.
    I feel like May is an enigma. I went from liking her when she was Home Sec to feeling rather ambivalent about her now.

    In fact, I'm rather concerned that she's being given a free run right now and there is no decent opposition around to voice the concerns of those worried about Brexit and a myriad of other things.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,862
    It's a free vote.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    ThreeQuidder said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    It makes the Conservatives look backward-looking, cruel and obsessed by trivia. Theresa May should never have gone near the subject.

    She was asked a question. If she'd ducked it she would have been criticised for that too.
    She was also asked about 'Vegan school meals' and after saying a Mum could provide a healthy meal for her own kid said she ate meat......

    Somehow people think 'not being straight with the electorate' is a disadvantage.....
  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    ydoethur said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Ishmael_Z said:



    Hunted foxes are killed at least as painlessly as those killed in any other way.

    How do you know this? When was your vulpine agony meter last calibrated?
    Well, I think we'd all agree it's quicker and less painful than gassing, snaring or poisoning (or at least, anyone who knows anything about those three would agree).

    The most humane way to kill a fox is lamping, which is usually more or less instantaneous. However, there are drawbacks to it. For one thing, foxes are clever and tend not to go near big strange things smelling of oil parked in a damn great field in the middle of the night. Also, lamping isn't exactly safe - in the month the hunting act was passed two people were killed in Herefordshire, one of them a boy of twelve, after a lamping bullet missed its target (quite what he was doing out and about at that time of night I do not know).

    Arguably the most coherent reason to repeal this particular law however is that it is badly written and practically unenforceable (just like every other bill passed by Blair's government). I think there have only been something like 9 successful prosecutions of hunts under it, at least one of which was privately funded - most of the convictions relate to poaching which could easily be covered by other acts.

    It may have been forgotten that Cameron did try to amend it to bring it in line with the much more effective and better written law in Scotland, but was, ironically, blocked by the SNP announcing they would vote against it despite it being (a) England only and (b) intended to apply Scottish law to England!
    Just like the much needed Sunday trading reform...
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,874
    edited May 2017
    AlastairMeeks said:

    As well as the UKIP most seats bet, there was another fairly punchy bet yesterday:

    https://twitter.com/david_powles/status/862769213513060354

    I asked for £400 @ 10-1 on Lib Dem 10-19 seats but got knocked back to 50.

    I've laid this bet personally to a 800/100 on Betfair actually.

    He should have come to this forum, between a few of us I'm sure we could have accommodated this bet - and at better odds than 12-1 too :p
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,250
    Roger said:

    Grammar Schools were her biggest mistake but this isn't far behind. For someone so cautious she's not making a great start. Even worse corbyn isn't turning out to be the donkey many of us predicted. He's finally got people's attention and he isn't talking rubbish.

    Neither is Thornberry. Brexit taught us that you only need two or three spokespeople so as long as he hides Abbott and McDonnell this could yet be an unexpected election.

    Those Com Res numbers I mentioned are pretty dire for Labour.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,364
    As an aside, Labour's draft manifesto says it will end driver-only operation on trains. This means that all trains (presumably they mean passenger trains only) will have to have guards. This will put up costs, make strikes much more effective, and do nothing for safety.

    They also appear to commit to extending HS2 to Scotland. Chortle. ;)

    Oh, and it also fails to mention freight (though to be fair they're not the only party to 'forget' rail freight).
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,782
    AlastairMeeks said:

    As well as the UKIP most seats bet, there was another fairly punchy bet yesterday:

    https://twitter.com/david_powles/status/862769213513060354

    It's got to be tyson the wily old fox!
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,862
    AlsoIndigo said:

    It should also be noted that while a similar pledge was made in 2010 and 2015, such a vote has never in those years reached the floor of the Commons, and there is no reason to suspect that it will in the next parliament. I am sure the leadership of the CA are aware of this, its a about the Tories telling the CA that they feel their pain and they are on their side (without actually doing anything) and the CA having something to point at to get their troops out knocking on doors.

    Not really. A vote to qualify the ban would have taken place 18 months ago under Cameron. But, the SNP (outrageously and hypocritically) spiked it.
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    Sean_F said:

    foxinsoxuk said:

    DavidL said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    It makes the Conservatives look backward-looking, cruel and obsessed by trivia. Theresa May should never have gone near the subject.

    Completely agree. It is not going to come close to changing my vote but the key to the success of David Cameron and now Theresa May was the detoxification of the Tory image from where the party was in the sad days of that well known rapper, IDS. This is a backward step which, although not decisive, will make many think, do I really have something in common with that party? Do they reflect my values?

    Stupid mistake and getting the Countryside Alliance to deliver leaflets for you in ultra safe seats (post the demise of UKIP) is no compensation at all.
    Yep. The Nasty party is back.

    That's good news for those of us who liked the Nasty Party.
    You liked the Conservative party under IDS? Really?

  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,998
    JosiasJessop said:

    As an aside, Labour's draft manifesto says it will end driver-only operation on trains. This means that all trains (presumably they mean passenger trains only) will have to have guards. This will put up costs, make strikes much more effective, and do nothing for safety.

    They also appear to commit to extending HS2 to Scotland. Chortle. ;)

    Oh, and it also fails to mention freight (though to be fair they're not the only party to 'forget' rail freight).

    I'd love to see them bring back guard's vans on freight trains. They could commission a new fleet of those freightliner guard's vans which were highly dangerous!
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,862
    Dura_Ace said:

    madasafish said:

    I live in the countryside..Foxes in the field behind. I have never hunted - I would fall off the horse.. And don't follow it..

    The League Against Cruel Sports say "“Are we really going to turn the clock back to a time when killing animals for fun was legal?"

    Which is utter nonsense..considering all the other animals you can legally kill..and in the case of rats you SHOULD kill..

    So frankly I - and many others - don't give a damn about the issue.

    | Many City dwellers have not got a clue about the countryside..

    There is a difference between killing an animal for a perceived necessity like pest control and torturing one to death as part of a pissed up laugh.
    There is no torturing involved.
  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    I'm half surprised Labour haven't committed to reversing this change:

    https://twitter.com/TheHistoryPress/status/862759742158114816
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,250
    The_Apocalypse said:

    Sean_F said:

    foxinsoxuk said:

    DavidL said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    It makes the Conservatives look backward-looking, cruel and obsessed by trivia. Theresa May should never have gone near the subject.

    Completely agree. It is not going to come close to changing my vote but the key to the success of David Cameron and now Theresa May was the detoxification of the Tory image from where the party was in the sad days of that well known rapper, IDS. This is a backward step which, although not decisive, will make many think, do I really have something in common with that party? Do they reflect my values?

    Stupid mistake and getting the Countryside Alliance to deliver leaflets for you in ultra safe seats (post the demise of UKIP) is no compensation at all.
    Yep. The Nasty party is back.

    That's good news for those of us who liked the Nasty Party.
    You liked the Conservative party under IDS? Really?

    Under Thatcher. IDS was sadly ineffectual.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,862
    Dura_Ace said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    madasafish said:

    I live in the countryside..Foxes in the field behind. I have never hunted - I would fall off the horse.. And don't follow it..

    The League Against Cruel Sports say "“Are we really going to turn the clock back to a time when killing animals for fun was legal?"

    Which is utter nonsense..considering all the other animals you can legally kill..and in the case of rats you SHOULD kill..

    So frankly I - and many others - don't give a damn about the issue.

    | Many City dwellers have not got a clue about the countryside..

    torturing one to death as part of a pissed up laugh.
    You mean angling?
    I'd agree it's in the same category but we'll get to it once the fox botherers have been fucked off.
    And that's the level of rationality and prejudice mentality behind the existing law.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,782
    Sean_F said:

    foxinsoxuk said:

    DavidL said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    It makes the Conservatives look backward-looking, cruel and obsessed by trivia. Theresa May should never have gone near the subject.

    Completely agree. It is not going to come close to changing my vote but the key to the success of David Cameron and now Theresa May was the detoxification of the Tory image from where the party was in the sad days of that well known rapper, IDS. This is a backward step which, although not decisive, will make many think, do I really have something in common with that party? Do they reflect my values?

    Stupid mistake and getting the Countryside Alliance to deliver leaflets for you in ultra safe seats (post the demise of UKIP) is no compensation at all.
    Yep. The Nasty party is back.

    That's good news for those of us who liked the Nasty Party.
    There aren't enough of you. Just you and Essex.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,250
    JosiasJessop said:

    As an aside, Labour's draft manifesto says it will end driver-only operation on trains. This means that all trains (presumably they mean passenger trains only) will have to have guards. This will put up costs, make strikes much more effective, and do nothing for safety.

    They also appear to commit to extending HS2 to Scotland. Chortle. ;)

    Oh, and it also fails to mention freight (though to be fair they're not the only party to 'forget' rail freight).

    I wonder how the DLR would function.

    The draft manifesto is full of stupid proposals.
  • AlsoIndigoAlsoIndigo Posts: 1,852
    edited May 2017
    AlsoIndigo said:

    I am sure urban LDs hate it, but they were never going to vote Tory anyway.

    AlastairMeeks said:

    It makes the Conservatives look backward-looking, cruel and obsessed by trivia. Theresa May should never have gone near the subject.

    QED.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,862
    foxinsoxuk said:

    DavidL said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    It makes the Conservatives look backward-looking, cruel and obsessed by trivia. Theresa May should never have gone near the subject.

    Completely agree. It is not going to come close to changing my vote but the key to the success of David Cameron and now Theresa May was the detoxification of the Tory image from where the party was in the sad days of that well known rapper, IDS. This is a backward step which, although not decisive, will make many think, do I really have something in common with that party? Do they reflect my values?

    Stupid mistake and getting the Countryside Alliance to deliver leaflets for you in ultra safe seats (post the demise of UKIP) is no compensation at all.
    Yep. The Nasty party is back.

    Pathetic spinning. Grow up.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,378
    Nobody cares about fox hunting. She could kill a fox live on TV and about 7 votes would move.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    AlsoIndigo said:

    AlsoIndigo said:

    I am sure urban LDs hate it, but they were never going to vote Tory anyway.

    AlastairMeeks said:

    It makes the Conservatives look backward-looking, cruel and obsessed by trivia. Theresa May should never have gone near the subject.

    QED.
    1) I'm not a Lib Dem.
    2) I'm pretty agnostic about the ban on fox hunting.

    Otherwise, you're spot on.
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    Pulpstar said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    As well as the UKIP most seats bet, there was another fairly punchy bet yesterday:

    https://twitter.com/david_powles/status/862769213513060354

    I asked for £400 @ 10-1 on Lib Dem 10-19 seats but got knocked back to 50.

    I've laid this bet personally to a 800/100 on Betfair actually.

    He should have come to this forum, between a few of us I'm sure we could have accommodated this bet - and at better odds than 12-1 too :p
    Tyson does come here....
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,862
    JosiasJessop said:

    As an aside, Labour's draft manifesto says it will end driver-only operation on trains. This means that all trains (presumably they mean passenger trains only) will have to have guards. This will put up costs, make strikes much more effective, and do nothing for safety.

    They also appear to commit to extending HS2 to Scotland. Chortle. ;)

    Oh, and it also fails to mention freight (though to be fair they're not the only party to 'forget' rail freight).

    No Crossrail then.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,022
    edited May 2017
    CarlottaVance said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Rookie mistake from Mrs May.

    She should have followed Dave's lead on this topic.

    Kept it low key and not expressed her own view.

    The Conservatives will hold a parliamentary vote on repealing the fox hunting ban if they win the next election, David Cameron has said.

    The Prime Minister, who has previously ridden with the Heythrop Hunt in Oxfordshire, said he believed in the “freedom to hunt” and wanted fox hunting legalised.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/david-cameron-says-he-wants-to-repeal-the-fox-hunting-ban-10091571.html
    Look at the date. Dave didn't say it during the business part of a general election campaign.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,782
    edited May 2017
    SquareRoot said:

    Roger said:

    DavidL said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    It makes the Conservatives look backward-looking, cruel and obsessed by trivia. Theresa May should never have gone near the subject.

    Completely agree. It is not going to come close to changing my vote but the key to the success of David Cameron and now Theresa May was the detoxification of the Tory image from where the party was in the sad days of that well known rapper, IDS. This is a backward step which, although not decisive, will make many think, do I really have something in common with that party? Do they reflect my values?

    Stupid mistake and getting the Countryside Alliance to deliver leaflets for you in ultra safe seats (post the demise of UKIP) is no compensation at all.
    Correct. All those thinking she's a different type of Tory will be having a rethink.

    All of them? I doubt many even heard it.. People seem to think voters listen to minutiae.. they don't

    Storm in a teacup imho.
    Steve Bell

    http://www.belltoons.co.uk/hotoffpress
  • NemtynakhtNemtynakht Posts: 2,329
    Isn't it all just froth about fox hunting. It won't be anywhere near the manifesto - we had other priorities with Brexit - and it seems we are all disappointed that the prime minister was asked a question and answered it truthfully qualifying as her personal opinion. If she had fobbed them off there would be people saying she was shifty - it's the same for all politicians of all backgrounds - they can't win!!!
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