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SystemSystem Posts: 12,680
edited April 2017 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Yvette Cooper moves into favourite slot as Corbyn’s successor

Yvette Cooper now betting favourite to succeed Corbyn pic.twitter.com/H1UNRl2t4R

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  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,756
    She's be great. She humiliated Theresa May the other day.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Still don't believe that Labour could elect a woman leader.

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,533
    But as the itv "poll" shows there is no need for a new labour leader as corbyn is winning and besides he won't step down anyway.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    That chart is a 'which is the most beautiful camel' chart really isn't it?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    But as the itv "poll" shows there is no need for a new labour leader as corbyn is winning and besides he won't step down anyway.

    Five More Years !!!
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,930
    Yvette was available at 28 in February. How times change.
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,706
    I'm sure she would rise to the level set by Ed or Gordon and above JC.

    I'm not sure she would be better than Burnham, Chukka, Postie, Nandy, Jarvis and many others, so not a great endorsement from me!
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    Patrick said:

    That chart is a 'which is the most beautiful camel' chart really isn't it?

    But, as Keynes almost said, we're not trying to judge which is the most beautiful camel, we're trying to judge which camel is the one which the judges will deem most beautiful.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    TGOHF said:

    Still don't believe that Labour could elect a woman leader.

    Last time there was a risk of electing one, Owen 'get round the table with ISIS' Thingy stepped in to head it off.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,099
    We have a nip !

    Matched betsOrder by matched date
    Lay (Bet Against) Backer's
    odds Backer's
    stake
    Payout
    Liability
    Jeremy Corbyn9.20 £0.26 £2.13
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 52,807
    She just has fewer negatives than her potential rivals, that's all.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @Conorpope: Exodus of capable staffers from Theresa May's top team does not give the sense of a confident government with a positive vision, does it?

    @PickardJE: Am told by someone in Number 10 that the mood has changed from "day to night" since Cameron left. twitter.com/Conorpope/stat…
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,376
    She allegedly made the most telling contribution at the PLP meeting on Wednesday as well. I fear her continued ambition is one reason that her even more talented husband is not standing again though. And that is a heavy price for Labour to pay.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Patrick said:

    That chart is a 'which is the most beautiful camel' chart really isn't it?

    But, as Keynes almost said, we're not trying to judge which is the most beautiful camel, we're trying to judge which camel is the one which the judges will deem most beautiful.
    You're dead right of course. But the end result is still a camel.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,756
    I still wouldn't rule out Diane Abbott.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @britainelects: Conservative GAIN Kenton East (Harrow) from Labour.
  • Hertsmere_PubgoerHertsmere_Pubgoer Posts: 3,476
    Apros of nothing.
    Just checked my Hill's account and seen that I'm sitting on a 7/1 shot for Jezza to leave the leadership in 2020

    I'm also sitting on a tenner's worth for Jim McMahon for next leader at 66's.
    Is he still around because can't say I've heard of him tbh.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    I still wouldn't rule out Diane Abbott.

    Now that IS a camel.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Deep Tory plant...

    https://twitter.com/pickardje/status/855374033046700032
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,099
    Her and Starmer are probably both a bit short - I'm not going to particularly lay any realistic runners this close to the event though.

    Those are:

    Starmer, Cooper, Ummuna, Nandy, Lewis I think.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,756
    edited April 2017
    Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:

    Apros of nothing.
    Just checked my Hill's account and seen that I'm sitting on a 7/1 shot for Jezza to leave the leadership in 2020

    I'm also sitting on a tenner's worth for Jim McMahon for next leader at 66's.
    Is he still around because can't say I've heard of him tbh.

    Yes Mp for Oldham, won the by election in Dec 2015.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    edited April 2017
    DavidL said:

    She allegedly made the most telling contribution at the PLP meeting on Wednesday as well. I fear her continued ambition is one reason that her even more talented husband is not standing again though. And that is a heavy price for Labour to pay.

    Largely agreed. Though AIUI, Ed Balls has simply ruled out standing in Morley & Outwood He hasn't ruled out standing someplace else (preferably with a maj>12k).

    Yvette has never really looked to me as though she wanted to be leader. She famously went on holiday while Jazza was canvassing in 2015.
  • Animal_pbAnimal_pb Posts: 608
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Patrick said:

    That chart is a 'which is the most beautiful camel' chart really isn't it?

    But, as Keynes almost said, we're not trying to judge which is the most beautiful camel, we're trying to judge which camel is the one which the judges will deem most beautiful.
    I'm reminded of some lines from "As Good As It Gets", a depressing rom com I was forced to sit through many years ago:

    Gushing female fan to successful author: "How do you write such convincing female characters?"

    Jack Nicholson, playing grumpy author: "Simple. I start with a man, and then I take away reason and accountability".

    Trying to get inside the heads of the Labour s electorate feels like a very similar task.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 52,807
    YBarddCwsc said:

    DavidL said:

    She allegedly made the most telling contribution at the PLP meeting on Wednesday as well. I fear her continued ambition is one reason that her even more talented husband is not standing again though. And that is a heavy price for Labour to pay.

    Largely agreed. Though AIUI, Ed Balls has simply ruled out standing in Morley & Outwood He hasn't ruled out standing.

    Yvette has never really looked to me as though she wanted to be leader. She famously went on holiday while Jazza was canvassing in 2015.
    Yesterday he ruled out standing anywhere.
  • DadgeDadge Posts: 2,052
    edited April 2017
    Tory gain Kenton East

    Con 1585
    Lab 1328
    LD 65
    Ind 54

    www.harrow.gov.uk/www2/mgElectionAreaResults.aspx?ID=120&RPID=104332403


  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited April 2017
    Pulpstar said:

    Her and Starmer are probably both a bit short - I'm not going to particularly lay any realistic runners this close to the event though.

    Those are:

    Starmer, Cooper, Ummuna, Nandy, Lewis I think.

    Until they change the system under which any mouth-breathing trot has the same voting rights as an MP, then I wouldn't touch the market with a bargepole (other than for light trading, natch)
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 45,159
    A tweet from the 1950s just in.

    https://twitter.com/johnredwood/status/855363138820206592
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    Conservatives gain Harrow Kenton East

    Con 1585
    Lab 1328
    LDem 65
    Ind 54
  • peter_from_putneypeter_from_putney Posts: 6,956
    edited April 2017
    She may be a good performer in the HoC when challenging Ministers, as OGH points out, but I've found Ms Cooper ineffective when on the receiving end, sometimes surprisingly poor for someone of her experience.
    For this reason, I doubt very much that she'll ever become Labour leader ..... she simply doesn't have that magic ingredient of authority.
    As it happens *cough*, I've already declared my hand about an hour ago - I'm going for Heidi (yes really, that's her name) Alexander, available at 55 with Betfair, although I do of course reserve the right to change my mind.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,947
    Afternoon saboteurs and patriots.

    Given the electorate in any future Labour contest I'd have thought Diane Abbott would be a more likely to become the next Lab leader than Mrs Cooper-Balls?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 52,807
    200 maj in Kenton East
  • ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,844
    Corbyn won't quit, because Tory expectations have been set so high, that when the tories win a majority of only 60 or so, instead of 150, he will be able to claim that as a moral victory and an indication that the country is on the road to socialism.

    Corbyn will do better than polls suggest simply because he is so incredible as PM, and the tories monstering of him so aggressive, that many 2015 labour voter waverers will vote Labour out of fear that the party will get annihilated.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @britainelects: Kenton East (Harrow) result:

    CON: 52.3% (+15.3)
    LAB: 43.8% (-4.1)
    LDEM: 2.1% (+2.1)
    IND: 1.8% (+1.8)
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,361
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    I still wouldn't rule out Diane Abbott.

    For what activity?

    She won't get to be leader because she won't be nominated. Even the left of the PLP couldn't put her forward.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    IanB2 said:

    YBarddCwsc said:

    DavidL said:

    She allegedly made the most telling contribution at the PLP meeting on Wednesday as well. I fear her continued ambition is one reason that her even more talented husband is not standing again though. And that is a heavy price for Labour to pay.

    Largely agreed. Though AIUI, Ed Balls has simply ruled out standing in Morley & Outwood He hasn't ruled out standing.

    Yvette has never really looked to me as though she wanted to be leader. She famously went on holiday while Jazza was canvassing in 2015.
    Yesterday he ruled out standing anywhere.
    Source. Not that I doubt you, just interested to read his reasons.

    If Balls is not standing, I guess it means he thinks it is 10 years hard work for the Labour party leader to remould the party. and he'll be too old & exhausted by the end of it.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,376
    YBarddCwsc said:

    DavidL said:

    She allegedly made the most telling contribution at the PLP meeting on Wednesday as well. I fear her continued ambition is one reason that her even more talented husband is not standing again though. And that is a heavy price for Labour to pay.

    Largely agreed. Though AIUI, Ed Balls has simply ruled out standing in Morley & Outwood He hasn't ruled out standing someplace else (preferably with a maj>12k).

    Yvette has never really looked to me as though she wanted to be leader. She famously went on holiday while Jazza was canvassing in 2015.
    I think that is true. I think she sees herself as a campaigner railing against stuff, not a manager. She is probably right but the choice is not great and looks likely to be even more limited on 9th June.
  • AramintaMoonbeamQCAramintaMoonbeamQC Posts: 3,921
    MarkSenior said:

    Conservatives gain Harrow Kenton East

    Con 1585
    Lab 1328
    LDem 65
    Ind 54

    Kenton East (Harrow) result:

    CON: 52.3% (+15.3)
    LAB: 43.8% (-4.1)
    LDEM: 2.1% (+2.1)
    IND: 1.8% (+1.8)

    Yes, that's not too healthy for Lab.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/855375538118119424
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,099
    Anorak said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Her and Starmer are probably both a bit short - I'm not going to particularly lay any realistic runners this close to the event though.

    Those are:

    Starmer, Cooper, Ummuna, Nandy, Lewis I think.

    Until they change the system under which any mouth-breathing trot has the same voting rights as an MP, then I wouldn't touch the market with a bargepole (other than for light trading, natch)
    Why wouldn't you touch the market with a bargepole ?

    It has been an absolute goldmine.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 61,389
    Theuniondivvie said:

    A tweet from the 1950s just in.

    https://twitter.com/johnredwood/status/855363138820206592

    The funny bit, of course, is that the car assembled in the UK factory might have a smaller % of content from the UK than the one assembled in France.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,244
    If Corbyn goes or is challenged the likely candidate will be Keir Starmer I would imagine, Cooper coming third in 2015 with members probably ended her chances though she could be Shadow Chancellor
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    Theuniondivvie said:

    A tweet from the 1950s just in.

    https://twitter.com/johnredwood/status/855363138820206592


    Oh dear. Unhelpful.

  • GarethoftheVale2GarethoftheVale2 Posts: 2,403
    The problem with this market are there are 5 scenarios to consider:

    1) Corbyn gets the McDonnell amendment through and stands down
    2) Corbyn fails to get the McDonnell amendment through and stands down
    3) Corbyn is challenged and loses
    4) Corbyn is challenged and wins
    5) Corbyn becomes PM

    In scenario 1, you are probably looking at hard left vs. soft left
    In scenario 2, the soft left candidate would probably be favourite
    In scenario 3, you are probably looking at an experienced unity candidate
    In scenario 4 and 5, who knows.

    Cooper's best chance to me seems to be scenario 3.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,244
    Pulpstar said:

    Her and Starmer are probably both a bit short - I'm not going to particularly lay any realistic runners this close to the event though.

    Those are:

    Starmer, Cooper, Ummuna, Nandy, Lewis I think.

    Umunna may be the leader after next
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,891
    Mr. Animal, George RR Martin was asked the same question. His answer, roughly, was that he thinks of them as people.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    DavidL said:

    YBarddCwsc said:

    DavidL said:

    She allegedly made the most telling contribution at the PLP meeting on Wednesday as well. I fear her continued ambition is one reason that her even more talented husband is not standing again though. And that is a heavy price for Labour to pay.

    Largely agreed. Though AIUI, Ed Balls has simply ruled out standing in Morley & Outwood He hasn't ruled out standing someplace else (preferably with a maj>12k).

    Yvette has never really looked to me as though she wanted to be leader. She famously went on holiday while Jazza was canvassing in 2015.
    I think that is true. I think she sees herself as a campaigner railing against stuff, not a manager. She is probably right but the choice is not great and looks likely to be even more limited on 9th June.
    Then, I think she's the wrong choice.

    The next Labour leader has really got to want to do the job (which may even be tougher than negotiating a good Brexit).
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,947
    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Her and Starmer are probably both a bit short - I'm not going to particularly lay any realistic runners this close to the event though.

    Those are:

    Starmer, Cooper, Ummuna, Nandy, Lewis I think.

    Umunna may be the leader after next
    Umummmmmnananananaananananaanan will never be Labour leader. He doesn't have the temperament for it.
  • calumcalum Posts: 3,046
    Interesting table

    https://twitter.com/tomfrench85/status/855368963357904897
  • Animal_pbAnimal_pb Posts: 608
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. Animal, George RR Martin was asked the same question. His answer, roughly, was that he thinks of them as people.

    And then has them raped and killed off?
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    edited April 2017
    Things have come to a pretty pass when simply being moderately competent is seen as enough to be seen as the next Labour leader. Yvette Cooper is not terribly impressive, she's dull, mechanical and relentlessly on-message, and the highlight of her ministerial career was the HIPs disaster. Still, in other circumstances she'd be credible as a possible PM, she could coordinate a coherent set of policies to go into a manifesto, she wouldn't gaffe, she'd be able to handle PMQs without difficulty, she wouldn't come over as an economic nutjob, and she's not tainted with support for terrorism, all of which makes her a zillion times more suitable to lead the party than the current incumbent. In a thin field, she ought, logically, to be one of the leading contenders, but I'm not sure logic applies here.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 52,807
    GarethoftheVale2 said:

    The problem with this market are there are 5 scenarios to consider:

    1) Corbyn gets the McDonnell amendment through and stands down
    2) Corbyn fails to get the McDonnell amendment through and stands down
    3) Corbyn is challenged and loses
    4) Corbyn is challenged and wins
    5) Corbyn becomes PM

    In scenario 1, you are probably looking at hard left vs. soft left
    In scenario 2, the soft left candidate would probably be favourite
    In scenario 3, you are probably looking at an experienced unity candidate
    In scenario 4 and 5, who knows.

    Cooper's best chance to me seems to be scenario 3.

    Being a previous loser - indeed even Andy Burnham beat her - will be a handicap.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,244
    Ipsos France 1st round

    Macron 24%
    Le Pen 22%
    Fillon 19%
    Melenchon 19%
    http://m.ipsos.fr/presidentielle2017/phone/intention-de-vote.html
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,867
    Anorak said:

    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/855375538118119424

    London is going to be interesting if there are 10% swings from Labour.....
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,244
    GIN1138 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Her and Starmer are probably both a bit short - I'm not going to particularly lay any realistic runners this close to the event though.

    Those are:

    Starmer, Cooper, Ummuna, Nandy, Lewis I think.

    Umunna may be the leader after next
    Umummmmmnananananaananananaanan will never be Labour leader. He doesn't have the temperament for it.
    He is a telegenic Blairite and that is what will get Labour back to power in about a decade
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    People seem to have short memories. Yvette Cooper was damn useless as a minister, why would she be any better as a party leader, let alone a prime minister?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,867
    Anybody else loving the idea of Ed Balls playing Denis Thatcher?
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,271
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Things have come to a pretty pass when simply being moderately competent is seen as enough to be seen as the next Labour leader. Yvette Cooper is not terribly impressive, she's dull, mechanical and relentlessly on-message, and the highlight of her ministerial career was the HIPs disaster. Still, in other circumstances she'd be credible as a possible PM, she could coordinate a coherent set of policies to go into a manifesto, she wouldn't gaffe, she'd be able to handle PMQs without difficulty, she wouldn't come over as an economic nutjob, and she's not tainted with support for terrorism, all of which makes her a zillion times more suitable to lead the party than the current incumbent. In a thin field, she ought, logically, to be one of the leading contenders, but I'm not sure logic applies here.

    Mind you, much of that applied to Theresa May when she became leader of the Conservatives.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,891
    Mr. Animal, surely a sign he believes in equality of the sexes?

    Mr. Calum, hmm. What percentage of people are gay? I wonder if those who think a demographically representative political body is a good thing want more straight people standing as SNP MPs.

    [For the record, I don't care. Election should be on merit. It is, however, intellectually indefensible and inconsistent for those who advocate (for example) a perfect gender balance to not oppose over-representation of other groups].

    Mr. HYUFD, cheers for that.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,818
    MarqueeMark said:

    Anorak said:

    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/855375538118119424

    London is going to be interesting if there are 10% swings from Labour.....
    A 10ish % swing in London could make it 15% or so in the marginals.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,947
    HYUFD said:

    GIN1138 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Her and Starmer are probably both a bit short - I'm not going to particularly lay any realistic runners this close to the event though.

    Those are:

    Starmer, Cooper, Ummuna, Nandy, Lewis I think.

    Umunna may be the leader after next
    Umummmmmnananananaananananaanan will never be Labour leader. He doesn't have the temperament for it.
    He is a telegenic Blairite and that is what will get Labour back to power in about a decade
    Yeah.... But it won't be him. Chances are ten years from now he'll have quit politics altogether.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    https://twitter.com/guidofawkes/status/855377673119555584
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,756
    david_herdson said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    I still wouldn't rule out Diane Abbott.

    For what activity?

    She won't get to be leader because she won't be nominated. Even the left of the PLP couldn't put her forward.
    The more Labour are wiped out the number of nominations to stand as Leader fall.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,947
    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/guidofawkes/status/855377673119555584

    Interesting. If Labour does put up a candidate against Speaker B so should the Tories...
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,818
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Things have come to a pretty pass when simply being moderately competent is seen as enough to be seen as the next Labour leader.

    Worked (or rather didn't) for Ed Miliband, who I would put at a similar level of ability to Cooper. Problem is they need someone considably better that that to even get to hung parliment position.
  • AllyPally_RobAllyPally_Rob Posts: 605
    Why no talk about Dan Jarvis anymore? He'd be an excellent pick for Labour
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 52,807
    The default assumption on here seems to be that post-defeat Labour will suddenly become more moderate?

    There's surely an alternative scenario where the surviving MPs are more left-wing (and the mostly moderate MEPs soon lose their jobs anyway), the nomination threshold for a smaller party is lower even without the McDonnell amendment, moderate politicians and members start to drift away.... in which another leader from the left wing is quite possible?
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,818
    GIN1138 said:

    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/guidofawkes/status/855377673119555584

    Interesting. If Labour does put up a candidate against Speaker B so should the Tories...
    I assume it's a oversight.
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    Correction to Harrow result

    For Ind 54 should be
    UKIP 54
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,756
    Oops

    https://twitter.com/SunPolitics/status/855378101286703104
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,891
    Mr. Llama, agree, but she'd still be miles better than the incumbent.

    When you're starving to death, even boiled cabbage is an improvement.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    FF43 said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Things have come to a pretty pass when simply being moderately competent is seen as enough to be seen as the next Labour leader. Yvette Cooper is not terribly impressive, she's dull, mechanical and relentlessly on-message, and the highlight of her ministerial career was the HIPs disaster. Still, in other circumstances she'd be credible as a possible PM, she could coordinate a coherent set of policies to go into a manifesto, she wouldn't gaffe, she'd be able to handle PMQs without difficulty, she wouldn't come over as an economic nutjob, and she's not tainted with support for terrorism, all of which makes her a zillion times more suitable to lead the party than the current incumbent. In a thin field, she ought, logically, to be one of the leading contenders, but I'm not sure logic applies here.

    Mind you, much of that applied to Theresa May when she became leader of the Conservatives.
    Cooper has no equivalent of the 'nasty party' speech on her résumé. We've also seen Cooper in action during the last leadership campaign where she struggled to make an impression even against the likes of Burnham so I don't think the comparison is apt.
  • peter_from_putneypeter_from_putney Posts: 6,956
    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Her and Starmer are probably both a bit short - I'm not going to particularly lay any realistic runners this close to the event though.

    Those are:

    Starmer, Cooper, Ummuna, Nandy, Lewis I think.

    Umunna may be the leader after next
    Nandy is a smart cookie and has the advantage of being a woman .... pollsters have just woken up to the fact that most women voters vote for women to become party leader, or at least Tory women do, Labour women have never been given the chance. Perhaps their time is nigh.

    Lisa's main problem is her voice, but possibly nothing that some training couldn't put right. Scoff if you will, but it IS important.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    Pulpstar said:

    Anorak said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Her and Starmer are probably both a bit short - I'm not going to particularly lay any realistic runners this close to the event though.

    Those are:

    Starmer, Cooper, Ummuna, Nandy, Lewis I think.

    Until they change the system under which any mouth-breathing trot has the same voting rights as an MP, then I wouldn't touch the market with a bargepole (other than for light trading, natch)
    Why wouldn't you touch the market with a bargepole ?

    It has been an absolute goldmine.
    Just more comfortable with things I understand. I do not understand the new influx of Labour Party members.

    [plus I'm an occasional gambler at best, not like you semi-pros :)]
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    edited April 2017
    MarqueeMark said:

    Anorak said:

    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/855375538118119424

    London is going to be interesting if there are 10% swings from Labour.....
    Dagenham and Rainham, Westminster N, Eltham plus Erith and Thamesmead as well as the four they lost in 2015.

  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,947
    edited April 2017
    IanB2 said:

    The default assumption on here seems to be that post-defeat Labour will suddenly become more moderate?

    There's surely an alternative scenario where the surviving MPs are more left-wing (and the mostly moderate MEPs soon lose their jobs anyway), the nomination threshold for a smaller party is lower even without the McDonnell amendment, moderate politicians and members start to drift away.... in which another leader from the left wing is quite possible?

    Indeed. The most likely scenario is that after the defeat Lab members continue to stick their fingers in the ears and refuse to compromise with the electorate... So John McDonnell and Diane Abbott should be favorite to succeed Jezza.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,947
    Slackbladder said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/guidofawkes/status/855377673119555584

    Interesting. If Labour does put up a candidate against Speaker B so should the Tories...
    I assume it's a oversight.
    Perhaps. But it would be typical Jezza to do away with "convention" and field a candidate against the Speaker.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    peter_from_putney said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Her and Starmer are probably both a bit short - I'm not going to particularly lay any realistic runners this close to the event though.

    Those are:

    Starmer, Cooper, Ummuna, Nandy, Lewis I think.

    Umunna may be the leader after next
    Nandy is a smart cookie and has the advantage of being a woman .... pollsters have just woken up to the fact that most women voters vote for women to become party leader, or at least Tory women do, Labour women have never been given the chance. Perhaps their time is nigh.

    Lisa's main problem is her voice, but possibly nothing that some training couldn't put right. Scoff if you will, but it IS important.
    Just for the record, who were the female Tory members who voted for Theresa May or Margaret Thatcher to become leader? Neither was put to the membership.
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    peter_from_putney said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Her and Starmer are probably both a bit short - I'm not going to particularly lay any realistic runners this close to the event though.

    Those are:

    Starmer, Cooper, Ummuna, Nandy, Lewis I think.

    Umunna may be the leader after next
    Nandy is a smart cookie and has the advantage of being a woman .... pollsters have just woken up to the fact that most women voters vote for women to become party leader, or at least Tory women do, Labour women have never been given the chance. Perhaps their time is nigh.

    Lisa's main problem is her voice, but possibly nothing that some training couldn't put right. Scoff if you will, but it IS important.
    Maggie found it important enough to lower her speaking voice an octave and slow down her delivery. Went from shrill harridan to patronizing mother, but nevertheless was a huge improvement.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 45,159
    Shy Tory..

    https://twitter.com/thebeatcroft/status/855344761242365952
  • CyanCyan Posts: 1,262
    edited April 2017
    Tony said:

    HYUFD said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    HYUFD said:

    Paristonda said:

    HYUFD said:

    Meanwhile Macron was in conversation with Obama today on defending their 'progressive values'
    https://twitter.com/EmmanuelMacron/status/855129811144118274

    Smart for him to do so, makes him look like a President in waiting. Obama remains very popular in France and even more so when compared to Trump. Obama obviously didn't make any back of the queue comments to the French so hasn't dented his reputation there either.
    It will certainly go down well in most of France and especially in Paris but I think the more depressed industrial areas of France are as unenthused by 'progressive politics' as the rustbelt was in the US and that will be the base for Le Pen's vote in the runoff
    Macron will be quite content for it to be him v Le Pen in the runoff. He'd be a locked-on certainty by that point.

    The biggest risk for Macron is that his vote doesn't turnout and he gets pipped out of a Fillon v Le Pen runoff.
    Probably, though if Macron does get through polls now suggest Le Pen will run him closer than Fillon would
    My French other half has gone to bed in a huff , switching to Le Pen from Macron.
    The waltzing of the terrorists across the open border from Belgium has gone down very badly.
    No doubt she'll be back to Macron after breakfast :)
    What is her position now? :)

    And out of interest, when she was (or now that she is again) intending to vote for Macron, what preference did (or will) she have in R2 if it is between Fillon and Le Pen?

    Hypothetical polling stats for R2 indicate there's a sizeable demographic who say they will vote for Macron in R1 but if Macron fails to get into R2 then they will vote for Le Pen against Fillon.

    My analysis of polling and voting stats from 2012 makes me think that Le Pen will top R1 and that Fillon is more likely than Macron to join her in the runoff. (I think I've underestimated Fillon's chances in the past, mainly because I think he's a smug git.) But if it's Le Pen versus Macron, how flaky could Macron's support be, in the face of further terror attacks for example, perhaps between the two rounds? Let's hope to goodness there are no further attacks, but it's very likely that there will be street disturbances in Paris at the Mayday weekend (bang between the two rounds) if Le Pen is still in contention. If enough potential floaters think they'll be safer with Le Pen, she'll win.

    It may well be people with similar thoughts and preferences to your other half's who decide this election.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,244
    peter_from_putney said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Her and Starmer are probably both a bit short - I'm not going to particularly lay any realistic runners this close to the event though.

    Those are:

    Starmer, Cooper, Ummuna, Nandy, Lewis I think.

    Umunna may be the leader after next
    Nandy is a smart cookie and has the advantage of being a woman .... pollsters have just woken up to the fact that most women voters vote for women to become party leader, or at least Tory women do, Labour women have never been given the chance. Perhaps their time is nigh.

    Lisa's main problem is her voice, but possibly nothing that some training couldn't put right. Scoff if you will, but it IS important.
    Nandy is too left-wing and too lightweight
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,271
    IanB2 said:

    The default assumption on here seems to be that post-defeat Labour will suddenly become more moderate?

    There's surely an alternative scenario where the surviving MPs are more left-wing (and the mostly moderate MEPs soon lose their jobs anyway), the nomination threshold for a smaller party is lower even without the McDonnell amendment, moderate politicians and members start to drift away.... in which another leader from the left wing is quite possible?

    It requires Labour members to "do the math". If the Cons are on 48% and Labour on 24%, the only way Labour is going to be in government is by turning over at least one third of current Conservative supporters, by making a pitch that appeals to those that are happy to vote Tory. Talk of "progressive alliances" is a catastrophic distraction. Corbynistas aren't good at maths.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 52,807
    YBarddCwsc said:

    IanB2 said:

    YBarddCwsc said:

    DavidL said:

    She allegedly made the most telling contribution at the PLP meeting on Wednesday as well. I fear her continued ambition is one reason that her even more talented husband is not standing again though. And that is a heavy price for Labour to pay.

    Largely agreed. Though AIUI, Ed Balls has simply ruled out standing in Morley & Outwood He hasn't ruled out standing.

    Yvette has never really looked to me as though she wanted to be leader. She famously went on holiday while Jazza was canvassing in 2015.
    Yesterday he ruled out standing anywhere.
    Source. Not that I doubt you, just interested to read his reasons.

    If Balls is not standing, I guess it means he thinks it is 10 years hard work for the Labour party leader to remould the party. and he'll be too old & exhausted by the end of it.
    Most of today's papers. Apparently he fears it would reduce Yvette's chances of succeeding Corbyn (according to the Mail).
  • JonCisBackJonCisBack Posts: 911
    chestnut said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Anorak said:

    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/855375538118119424

    London is going to be interesting if there are 10% swings from Labour.....
    Dagenham and Rainham, Westminster N, Eltham plus Erith and Thamesmead as well as the four they lost in 2015.

    premature to be carried away on 1 council seat. Where are the missing % from last time? Independent?

    Leave the breathless extrapolation from one local election to Mark Senior et al :-)
  • SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 7,457
    Theuniondivvie said:

    Shy Tory..

    https://twitter.com/thebeatcroft/status/855344761242365952

    Buggers doon south?

    It'll be those bloody Orcadians with their metropolitan elite ways.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    HYUFD said:

    Nandy is too left-wing and too lightweight

    So.. we should pile on?
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    IanB2 said:

    YBarddCwsc said:

    IanB2 said:

    YBarddCwsc said:

    DavidL said:

    She allegedly made the most telling contribution at the PLP meeting on Wednesday as well. I fear her continued ambition is one reason that her even more talented husband is not standing again though. And that is a heavy price for Labour to pay.

    Largely agreed. Though AIUI, Ed Balls has simply ruled out standing in Morley & Outwood He hasn't ruled out standing.

    Yvette has never really looked to me as though she wanted to be leader. She famously went on holiday while Jazza was canvassing in 2015.
    Yesterday he ruled out standing anywhere.
    Source. Not that I doubt you, just interested to read his reasons.

    If Balls is not standing, I guess it means he thinks it is 10 years hard work for the Labour party leader to remould the party. and he'll be too old & exhausted by the end of it.
    Most of today's papers. Apparently he fears it would reduce Yvette's chances of succeeding Corbyn (according to the Mail).

    ...." (according to the Mail)."

    So that's one reason we can rule out.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,818
    IanB2 said:

    The default assumption on here seems to be that post-defeat Labour will suddenly become more moderate?

    There's surely an alternative scenario where the surviving MPs are more left-wing (and the mostly moderate MEPs soon lose their jobs anyway), the nomination threshold for a smaller party is lower even without the McDonnell amendment, moderate politicians and members start to drift away.... in which another leader from the left wing is quite possible?

    If, if there's a big defeat and labout are reduced to sub 200 MPs, then i don't think anyone can predict what might happen.

    A proper split of the party might be best option at that point.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited April 2017
    Corrected result. Larger swing than previously.
    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/855379009844195328
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 52,807
    YBarddCwsc said:

    IanB2 said:

    YBarddCwsc said:

    IanB2 said:

    YBarddCwsc said:

    DavidL said:

    She allegedly made the most telling contribution at the PLP meeting on Wednesday as well. I fear her continued ambition is one reason that her even more talented husband is not standing again though. And that is a heavy price for Labour to pay.

    Largely agreed. Though AIUI, Ed Balls has simply ruled out standing in Morley & Outwood He hasn't ruled out standing.

    Yvette has never really looked to me as though she wanted to be leader. She famously went on holiday while Jazza was canvassing in 2015.
    Yesterday he ruled out standing anywhere.
    Source. Not that I doubt you, just interested to read his reasons.

    If Balls is not standing, I guess it means he thinks it is 10 years hard work for the Labour party leader to remould the party. and he'll be too old & exhausted by the end of it.
    Most of today's papers. Apparently he fears it would reduce Yvette's chances of succeeding Corbyn (according to the Mail).

    ...." (according to the Mail)."

    So that's one reason we can rule out.
    True - although just as likely, it's a convenient answer from Ed that keeps his wife in the spotlight and avoids him having to say he can't be bothered or he doesn't think it's worth it?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,244
    edited April 2017
    If Corbyn went a yougov Labour members' poll from March had McDonnell and Cooper tied on 27% to succeed him, Starmer and Umunna just behind on 26% with Lewis on 23%, Benn 21% and Jarvis 17%. Nandy was on 8%
    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/uk_58bd744de4b05cf0f401d143/amp
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    calum said:

    Interesting table

    https://twitter.com/tomfrench85/status/855368963357904897

    NZ, as always, leading the world on social issues. But extraordinary that the UK has 3 of the top 11. Rather disproves the notion of post-Brexit Brits as bigots.
  • ArtistArtist Posts: 1,894
    I could only see Cooper being handed the job unopposed rather than winning a leadership contest. Cooper's campaign was poor last time round, she literally had nothing to say. Considering she had the most donations, party staff behind her, Labour's desperation to elect a female leader and the poor competition, to come third was a severe underachievement and that was only less than two years ago.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 67,177
    Question for Mark S

    Re Harrow - was the increase in conservative vote share drawn from both labour and UKIP and why little move to the Lib Dems.

    I think you said earlier turnout was 37% - is that high for a local election
  • CyanCyan Posts: 1,262
    Slackbladder said:

    IanB2 said:

    The default assumption on here seems to be that post-defeat Labour will suddenly become more moderate?

    There's surely an alternative scenario where the surviving MPs are more left-wing (and the mostly moderate MEPs soon lose their jobs anyway), the nomination threshold for a smaller party is lower even without the McDonnell amendment, moderate politicians and members start to drift away.... in which another leader from the left wing is quite possible?

    If, if there's a big defeat and labout are reduced to sub 200 MPs, then i don't think anyone can predict what might happen.

    A proper split of the party might be best option at that point.
    About time! It should have split in 1994 when the Tory Blair got the leadership, totally bullshittised its presentation, and started praising Thatcherism. I don't think it will split in the near future, unless one has in mind Momentum doing a David Owen.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,818
    Anorak said:

    Corrected result. Larger swing than previously.
    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/855379009844195328

    Still a 9% swing or so. In london.
  • JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400
    MarkHopkins said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    A tweet from the 1950s just in.

    https://twitter.com/johnredwood/status/855363138820206592


    Oh dear. Unhelpful.

    Ironically, this is the sort of open and global Britain the free-trading EEA brexiters are going to get.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    FF43 said:

    IanB2 said:

    The default assumption on here seems to be that post-defeat Labour will suddenly become more moderate?

    There's surely an alternative scenario where the surviving MPs are more left-wing (and the mostly moderate MEPs soon lose their jobs anyway), the nomination threshold for a smaller party is lower even without the McDonnell amendment, moderate politicians and members start to drift away.... in which another leader from the left wing is quite possible?

    It requires Labour members to "do the math". If the Cons are on 48% and Labour on 24%, the only way Labour is going to be in government is by turning over at least one third of current Conservative supporters, by making a pitch that appeals to those that are happy to vote Tory. Talk of "progressive alliances" is a catastrophic distraction. Corbynistas aren't good at maths.
    We're rediscovering that the UK is a small 'c' conservative country and that the leftier your election offering is (leader or policy) the shittier you're going to do.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    MTimT said:

    calum said:

    Interesting table

    https://twitter.com/tomfrench85/status/855368963357904897

    NZ, as always, leading the world on social issues. But extraordinary that the UK has 3 of the top 11. Rather disproves the notion of post-Brexit Brits as bigots.
    Interesting how the Tories are the only right-leaving party on the list. [Although I have no clue about either Dutch party!!]
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 52,807
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Question for Mark S

    Re Harrow - was the increase in conservative vote share drawn from both labour and UKIP and why little move to the Lib Dems.

    I think you said earlier turnout was 37% - is that high for a local election

    The situation is complicated by the 15% or so scored by three independents the last time around. It depends on who they were - if some sort of residents' group then they might have been Tory-leaning voters already.

    The turnout is about par for an outer London local by-election. In the set of London elections you'd be looking at nearer 50%.
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