politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Nighthawks is now open and with a new Marf cartoon
Comments
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For those who are considering a flutter on the unfortunately named 'world series' which starts tonight, here are a couple of things to help you.
1) in 21 of the last 25 world series, the team winning the first game wins the series.
2) the team with home field advantage wins the series 81% of the time.0 -
I don't agree about immigration but I certainly agree about immigrants. The tories have yet to reach out to our substantial immigrant communities in a way which convinces them or even allows tories to get a hearing. It is a similar problem to that of the republicans in the US and it is having the same consequences.IOS said:The Tories cannot win a majority until they start to love immigration. I know a the old white men on this message board won't like that statement. But then there is a reason why they are angry old white men who can't command a coalition that can win a majority.
Our south Asian immigrants form a significant part of the small business people in this country. This is a group that the tories need to embrace and make their own. But the likes of Farage scare them into needing to sound tough on immigration the whole time and they allow this to dominate their message.
It is a strategic error beyond any doubt.0 -
Front of the sun,at the top,£50 cut in green tax - Does the sun know something we don't.
http://www.politicshome.com/uk/article/87079/the_sun_wednesday_23rd_october_2013.html0 -
Sean
Electoral winners like Boris LOVE immigration too. Maybe you should stand as a Tory MP? Can't do worse than posh boy Cameron.
Also I would add those people you mention will in the majority still vote Labour. Because in Britain Class > Nationality / Race0 -
Blimey! That is absolutely incredible.Stark_Dawning said:And the Wikipedia entry for 'In Place of Strife' is a mere stub:
.
But, in fact, perhaps not that surprising. The horror that was pre-Thatcher British industry has been largely air-brushed out of history and replaced with a Hovis ad in the national consciousness.0 -
The modern Left is intellectually bereft, even though Labour won a sackful of recent elections.
But the modern Right is a throbbing hive of intellectual vigour, despite its inability to win elections for decades, because the Tories have Michael Gove.
The things you learn on PB.0 -
You seem to be confusing me with a Tory, I am a pro european centrist LibDem voter.
I would suggest that if Ed wants to lose the next election the he should put increasing unskilled migration as the first line in his manifesto. It would be the shortest political suicide note In history.
I am not enamoured by many of the ideas of the right, but do recognise that this is where the future of the country is being debated. All the left can do is make sub Izzard jokes about pointing at squid.IOS said:Fox?
Winning what debate? We still have open boarders with Europe. In fact next year we will be adding more countries. So much for winning a debate.
Now embrace immigration like Boris and try winning an election.0 -
DavidL
Cameron should have spent this parliament touring small Asian businesses and slowly getting out the word he was on their side.
Instead he sent round a van telling them to piss off. And if that wasn't enough he sent them a text.0 -
If green taxes are cut, but the customer is on a fixed-rate tariff, then I guess the cut goes straight to the supplier as profit?Tykejohnno said:Front of the sun,at the top,£50 cut in green tax - Does the sun know something we don't.
http://www.politicshome.com/uk/article/87079/the_sun_wednesday_23rd_october_2013.html0 -
@IOS ,Two Quotes from our lovable lefty clown .
1 - The Tories cannot win a majority until they start to love immigration
2 - We still have open boarders with Europe
You got to love the lad.
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Roy Mason was one of the best Northern Ireland secretaries there ever was.tim said:
In Place Of Strife and Roy MasonRichardNabavi said:
Blimey! That is absolutely incredible.Stark_Dawning said:And the Wikipedia entry for 'In Place of Strife' is a mere stub:
.
But, in fact, perhaps not that surprising. The horror that was pre-Thatcher British industry has been largely air-brushed out of history and replaced with a Hovis ad in the national consciousness.
Anyone who doesn't know the importance of those two knows sod all about politics
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UNH/WMUR New Hampshire 2016 GOP primary poll
•Rand Paul 17% {16%} [15%] (8%)
•Chris Christie 16% {21%} [11%] (14%)
•Paul Ryan 9% {8%} [11%] (11%)
•Jeb Bush 8% {10%} [5%] (5%)
•Scott Brown 7%
•Ted Cruz 6% {4%} [2%] (1%)
•Marco Rubio 4% {6%} [15%] (12%)
•Rick Santorum 4% {4%} [4%] (3%)
•Scott Walker 2% {2%} [1%] (3%)
•Rick Perry 1% {4%}
•John Kasich 0% {0%}
•Peter King 0%
•Rob Portman 0% {0%} [1%] (0%)
•Someone else 3% {3%} [0%] (2%)
•Don’t know yet 21% {20%} [23%] (20%)
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The right sort of immigrants are a boon to a country; the wrong sort aren't.
Labour's failure was to make no distinction between the two and not to make the argument in favour of good immigrants so as to get the British people's wholehearted consent. The Tories' failure is to behave as if all foreigners are out to cheat us, thus annoying the good immigrants and doing sod all to deter the bad ones from coming here.0 -
Sean
Those poor working class white people you refer to have a much better education in London because of immigration than elsewhere. They certainly have a better social security net because of the revenue in taxes generated from the dynamism of a immigrant charged London economy.
Anyone who cares about the poor in this country would try and make the rest of this country like London.
And unless the Tories get on board with this they ain't winning any majorities again. So if you think me and my party is disgusting. I suggest that you work your arse off to get some Tories who get it like Boris instead of chinless wonders like Osborne.0 -
UNH/WMUR New Hampshire 2016 Democratic primary poll
•Hillary Clinton 64% {62%} [61%] (63%)
•Elizabeth Warren 6%
•Joe Biden 6% {8%} [7%] (10%)
•Deval Patrick 1% {5%} [3%] (1%)
•Andrew Cuomo 2% {1%} [3%] (5%)
•Evan Bayh 0% {0%} [1%] (1%)
•Cory Booker 0% {2%} [1%] (2%)
•Mark Warner 0% {0%} [2%] (0%)
•Martin O’Malley 0% {0%} [0%] (0%)
•Kirsten Gillibrand 0% {0%}
•John Hickenlooper 0% {0%} [0%] (0%)
•Someone else 2% {2%} [2%] (1%)
•Don’t know yet 18% {19%} [22%] (16%)
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Labour wins because the electorate believes in the money tree - nothing to do with intellectual vigour.R0berts said:The modern Left is intellectually bereft, even though Labour won a sackful of recent elections.
But the modern Right is a throbbing hive of intellectual vigour, despite its inability to win elections for decades, because the Tories have Michael Gove.
The things you learn on PB.
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Like!
Best summary of the parties failures on immigration that I have seen.Cyclefree said:The right sort of immigrants are a boon to a country; the wrong sort aren't.
Labour's failure was to make no distinction between the two and not to make the argument in favour of good immigrants so as to get the British people's wholehearted consent. The Tories' failure is to behave as if all foreigners are out to cheat us, thus annoying the good immigrants and doing sod all to deter the bad ones from coming here.0 -
Suggestion: maybe SeanT would like to write a Telegraph blog post on the fact that people earning £55,000 a year at Grangemouth have decided they'd rather go on the dole, at our expense.
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-2451466/Calum-MacLean-interview-Squaring-union-battle-Grangemouth.html"A typical operator at Grangemouth is earning around £55,000 in basic salary plus shift allowances, plus we have to put in another £30,000 or so for their pension.'"
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A large part of the immigrant charged London economy earning all that tax revenue consists of immigrant bankers and other City folk, the very people that some on the left said could piss off if they didn't like higher tax rates. They are the very people who have largely made London housing unaffordable to anyone except the very wealthy. Your argument sounds awfully similar to those made in recent years by those defending the City. Nothing wrong with that but this is not the sort of immigration which largely worries the white working class and it is not the sort of immigration which worries people outside London.IOS said:Sean
Those poor working class white people you refer to have a much better education in London because of immigration than elsewhere. They certainly have a better social security net because of the revenue in taxes generated from the dynamism of a immigrant charged London economy.
Anyone who cares about the poor in this country would try and make the rest of this country like London.
And unless the Tories get on board with this they ain't winning any majorities again. So if you think me and my party is disgusting. I suggest that you work your arse off to get some Tories who get it like Boris instead of chinless wonders like Osborne.
It is perfectly possible to say that:-
1. immigration is a good thing
2. but that it also imposes costs;
3. those costs may fall on particular groups very heavily and
4. therefore something will be done to share the burden more equally or to alleviate the costs.
But too many of the supporters of immigration say 1. but do nothing about 2, 3 and 4.
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It is time for bed, after a particularly interesting Nighthawks.
But has UNITE really decided that grovelling for mercy is their best plan in Grangemouth?
http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-246478430 -
@Cyclefree -
James Dyson Wants To Remove Immigration Cap For 'Brightest' And Create Science, Engineering Visa
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/10/21/dyson-engineering-science_n_4138627.html?utm_hp_ref=tw
I think this will go under point one.0 -
Find which US state would suit your personality, apparently I am best suited to Montana
http://science.time.com/2013/10/22/the-united-states-of-attitude-an-interactive-guide-to-americas-moods/0 -
Cali for meHYUFD said:Find which US state would suit your personality, apparently I am best suited to Montana
http://science.time.com/2013/10/22/the-united-states-of-attitude-an-interactive-guide-to-americas-moods/0 -
Apparently I belong in Florida – I thought it was just a place for alligators and retirees?HYUFD said:Find which US state would suit your personality, apparently I am best suited to Montana
Should I be offended?0 -
District of Columbia.HYUFD said:Find which US state would suit your personality, apparently I am best suited to Montana
http://science.time.com/2013/10/22/the-united-states-of-attitude-an-interactive-guide-to-americas-moods/
I shall start looking for an Irish Neo-Palladian residence immediately.
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Hmmm.
Now I am worried about the neighbours.0 -
Tim posted - PS Cyclefree, despite "open borders" immigrants are much more educated than Brits, hence the rise in standards in Londons schools
Tim - Serious Question-
Can you point to my city of Bradford,where we are in the ladder of rise in standards of Bradford schools compared to rest of country
The answer may make your Quote look abit silly.0 -
Yes - but the lack of consent was and is a problem. You need to take the people with you. There is a good case to be made but it needs to be made and it needs to recognise also that not everyone who wants to come and live here is the sort of person that we want to have here. That is where the failure lies: we need to be much more hard-headed about permitting the sort of immigration which is in the country's interests and being ruthless about stopping the sort of immigration which isn't.tim said:
I'd argue that Tory PMs opened the country to immigration without consent due to Heath and Thatcher giving 300m plus Europeans the right to live here, as it happened Brit pensioners moved faster in them days.foxinsoxuk said:Like!
Cyclefree said:The right sort of immigrants are a boon to a country; the wrong sort aren't.
Labour's failure was to make no distinction between the two and not to make the argument in favour of good immigrants so as to get the British people's wholehearted consent. The Tories' failure is to behave as if all foreigners are out to cheat us, thus annoying the good immigrants and doing sod all to deter the bad ones from coming here.
But Heath and Thatcher were right, and in thirty years time when people in the UK are looking at the demographic car crash in East Asia and Southern/Easstern Europe Heath and Thatcher will be on the podium , but with Blair at the top for saving this country from a Japanese style demographic nightmare.
Politicians have either been scared of doing this or they have couched the argument in terms of what is good for the immigrants not what is good for us or they've been dishonest about the costs. Even good policies have costs. It's dishonest to pretend otherwise. It's this dishonesty and lack of courage which has so poisoned matters. To be told after the event: "Well it's good for you anyway" isn't enough - even if true - because the trust has been ruined by the failure to say, explain, persuade beforehand what you were doing and why. The lack of trust corrodes everything else.
Heath made a moral case for letting in the Ugandan Asians in 1971 and, by and large, it worked. Labour lied about - or were incompetent in assessing - Eastern European immigration and that has had consequences to this day, as we can see over the Romanian/Bulgarian question.
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I don't believe it: I came out with Montana as well.0
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Some interesting results, and I am not surprised Tim belongs in DC!0
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SeanT Gettysburg was located there when I went to visit it0
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Jesus: I belong in South Dakota!!0
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Nevada. Perhaps outside Vegas though.
In reality I think New Mexico more my scene.0 -
Sean
Simple solution. Let's fill Luton and Bradford with more of the right type of immigrants.
Anyway the point is will the Tories ever win a majority while you are alive Sean. And unless they stop pissing off a reasonable part of the electorate with Go home vans and text messages the answer is no.0 -
In less than 2 days the typical wage of an employee at Grangemouth has increased from £ 30,000 to £ 40,000 then £ 50,000 and now £ 55,000 according to various links posted on here .AndyJS said:Suggestion: maybe SeanT would like to write a Telegraph blog post on the fact that people earning £55,000 a year at Grangemouth have decided they'd rather go on the dole, at our expense.
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-2451466/Calum-MacLean-interview-Squaring-union-battle-Grangemouth.html"A typical operator at Grangemouth is earning around £55,000 in basic salary plus shift allowances, plus we have to put in another £30,000 or so for their pension.'"
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It was the newly dyed blonde in the Greek Roma community who caught my eye.tim said:@Avery
I shall treat you with the respect that a blonde child in a Roma community deserves.
Until it gets tough, then I shall phone the Dacreists and have you removed
She will become my new first lady. We shall fiddle while you burn.
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In less than 2 days the typical wage of an employee at Grangemouth has increased from £ 30,000 to £ 40,000 then £ 50,000 and now £ 55,000 according to various links posted on here .MarkSenior said:AndyJS said:Suggestion: maybe SeanT would like to write a Telegraph blog post on the fact that people earning £55,000 a year at Grangemouth have decided they'd rather go on the dole, at our expense.
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-2451466/Calum-MacLean-interview-Squaring-union-battle-Grangemouth.html"A typical operator at Grangemouth is earning around £55,000 in basic salary plus shift allowances, plus we have to put in another £30,000 or so for their pension.'"
Wrong, Mark.
It has fallen for any or all of the above to zero.
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It says I belong in Idaho!
This is a long way from my home in Georgia :-(0 -
tim said:Cyclefree said:
No idea. But it worked because people accepted - by and large - that we should do the decent thing by people who were being treated abominably by Amin. We were behaving honourably. But what people don't like is being taken advantage of or being taken for fools and too many governments have taken us for fools over immigration since then. A more honest and open debate about the benefits and costs of immigration would have helped matters immeasurably.tim said:foxinsoxuk said:Like!
Cyclefree said:The right sort of immigrants are a boon to a country; the wrong sort aren't.
Labour's failure was to make no distinction between the two and not to make the argument in favour of good immigrants so as to get the British people's wholehearted consent. The Tories' failure is to behave as if all foreigners are out to cheat us, thus annoying the good immigrants and doing sod all to deter the bad ones from coming here.
Yes - but the lack of consent was and is a problem. You need to take the people with you. There is a good case to be made but it needs to be made and it needs to recognise also that
Politicians have either been scared of doing this or they have couched the argument in terms of what is good for the immigrants not what is good for us or they've been dishonest about the costs. Even good policies have costs. It's dishonest to pretend otherwise. It's this dishonesty and lack of courage which has so poisoned matters. To be told after the event: "Well it's good for you anyway" isn't enough - even if true - because the trust has been ruined by the failure to say, explain, persuade beforehand what you were doing and why. The lack of trust corrodes everything else.
Heath made a moral case for letting in the Ugandan Asians in 1971 and, by and large, it worked. Labour lied about - or were incompetent in assessing - Eastern European immigration and that has had consequences to this day, as we can see over the Romanian/Bulgarian question.
The National Front got 16% in the West Brom by election 1973 (when Betty Boothroyd was first elected) after Heath "made a moral case" for the Ugandan Asians, whats the top score for the BNP in the last ten years?0 -
In response to Tim -
"No idea. But it worked because people accepted - by and large - that we should do the decent thing by people who were being treated abominably by Amin. We were behaving honourably. But what people don't like is being taken advantage of or being taken for fools and too many governments have taken us for fools over immigration since then. A more honest and open debate about the benefits and costs of immigration would have helped matters immeasurably."0 -
I don't know the area but -tim said:
"Heath made a moral case for letting in the Ugandan Asians in 1971 and, by and large, it worked. "Cyclefree said:
Yes - but the lack of consent was and is a problem. You need to take the people with you. There is a good case to be made but it needs to be made and it needs to recognise also thattim said:
I'd argue that Tory PMs opened the country to immigration without consent due to Heath and Thatcher giving 300m plus Europeans the right to live here, as it happened Brit pensioners moved faster in them days.foxinsoxuk said:Like!
Cyclefree said:The right sort of immigrants are a boon to a country; the wrong sort aren't.
Labour's failure was to make no distinction between the two and not to make the argument in favour of good immigrants so as to get the British people's wholehearted consent. The Tories' failure is to behave as if all foreigners are out to cheat us, thus annoying the good immigrants and doing sod all to deter the bad ones from coming here.
Politicians have either been scared of doing this or they have couched the argument in terms of what is good for the immigrants not what is good for us or they've been dishonest about the costs. Even good policies have costs. It's dishonest to pretend otherwise. It's this dishonesty and lack of courage which has so poisoned matters. To be told after the event: "Well it's good for you anyway" isn't enough - even if true - because the trust has been ruined by the failure to say, explain, persuade beforehand what you were doing and why. The lack of trust corrodes everything else.
Heath made a moral case for letting in the Ugandan Asians in 1971 and, by and large, it worked. Labour lied about - or were incompetent in assessing - Eastern European immigration and that has had consequences to this day, as we can see over the Romanian/Bulgarian question.
The National Front got 16% in the West Brom by election 1973 (when Betty Boothroyd was first elected) after Heath "made a moral case" for the Ugandan Asians, whats the top score for the BNP in the last ten years?
What's the white % to the immigration population now in west brom ?
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I belong in Oregon, apparently. Any jobs going with Nike, I wonder?0
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AndyJS Looks like we will be going ranch hunting then!0
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16% is a minority and I said "by and large" not that everyone did.tim said:@Cyclefree
""No idea. But it worked because people accepted - by and large - that we should do the decent thing by people who were being treated abominably by Amin. "
No they didn't.
But I still think that the government of the day, despite the pressures on it, did the decent thing and something for us as a country to be proud of, even if there were people who disagreed.
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@IOS posted - Simple solution. Let's fill Luton and Bradford with more of the right type of immigrants
So lets get rid of my fellow muslim Pakistani /afro Caribbean bradfordians for white educated polish people,that's your simple solution.
You got the simple bit right.0 -
I remember the Ugandan Asian cause being taken up enthusiastically by the upper middle classes. Many a country house had its spare bedrooms redecorated in anticipation of their imminent arrival.Cyclefree said:In response to Tim -
"No idea. But it worked because people accepted - by and large - that we should do the decent thing by people who were being treated abominably by Amin. We were behaving honourably. But what people don't like is being taken advantage of or being taken for fools and too many governments have taken us for fools over immigration since then. A more honest and open debate about the benefits and costs of immigration would have helped matters immeasurably."
Although the goodwill persisted I can't remember any of these rooms being filled. It was if the last blast of empire builders had been rejected by modern sensibility.
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Took the test and I'm marching through Georgia.0
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My natural home state is Utah, apparently. Hmm.0
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NP Not a closet Mormon are you?0
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In less than 2 days the typical wage of an employee at Grangemouth has increased from £ 30,000 to £ 40,000 then £ 50,000 and now £ 55,000 according to various links posted on here .MarkSenior said:AndyJS said:Suggestion: maybe SeanT would like to write a Telegraph blog post on the fact that people earning £55,000 a year at Grangemouth have decided they'd rather go on the dole, at our expense.
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-2451466/Calum-MacLean-interview-Squaring-union-battle-Grangemouth.html"A typical operator at Grangemouth is earning around £55,000 in basic salary plus shift allowances, plus we have to put in another £30,000 or so for their pension.'"
Even £30k would be nearly 50% higher than average.
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Tim,are immigrants a problem in your area should be the Question ?tim said:Cyclefree said:
16% is a minority and I said "by and large" not that everyone did.tim said:@Cyclefree
""No idea. But it worked because people accepted - by and large - that we should do the decent thing by people who were being treated abominably by Amin. "
No they didn't.
But I still think that the government of the day, despite the pressures on it, did the decent thing and something for us as a country to be proud of, even if there were people who disagreed.
After the Kenyan Asians 74% agreed with Powell.
The British people are of course better in action than in polling when it comes to immigration, hence the huge gap between "Do you think immigrants are a problem nationally" compared to "Do you think immigrants are a problem in your area"
and hence the fact that Londoners are less bothered than people in the Shandy Belt.
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M'honourable friend needs to declare an interest. Actually it occurs to me that you could win Avery round by offering him 10% off Bollingers. With SeanT you should offer to surcharge him 200%, so he can tell us how he's sipping £100 plonk for tea.tim said:
Drink moreNickPalmer said:My natural home state is Utah, apparently. Hmm.
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Vermont.HYUFD said:
Find which US state would suit your personality, apparently I am best suited to Montana
http://science.time.com/2013/10/22/the-united-states-of-attitude-an-interactive-guide-to-americas-moods/0 -
OT, Yglesias has a five point plan to fix everything. It doesn't quite fix everything, but it fixes a lot of the things.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2013/10/23/how_to_fix_everything.html0 -
Test says Colorado.
Isnt it all at altitude. .. ?0 -
Lots of people with blonde hair have non-European ancestry. Ruby Tandoh, for example.0
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It's Colorado for me.0
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Suggestion for Mike Smithson.
Why not have a poll of PBers to see which way they would vote in a GE today?
How representative of the population are PBers?0 -
Georgia for me0
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"Jeremy, darling"AndyJS said:Russell Brand on Newsnight:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ri0R9wCZz-o
I didn't LOL, but I did chuckle.
interesting character, Brand0 -
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@SeanT @Cyclefree @foxinsoxuk
We don't hear much about Keir Hardie either these days. I wonder why?Prime Minister Gordon Brown’s political idol has been revealed as an “intolerant racist” who attacked immigrant workers, a new book reveals.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/92058/Gordan-s-idol-is-Keir
Former Scottish first minister Henry McLeish has cast doubts on founder of the Labour Party James Keir Hardie, claiming he was an intolerant xenophobe.
In his social history of Scotland, Mr McLeish portrays Keir Hardie as a rabble-rousing racist who despised Lithuanian immigrants working in Scottish mines. The first Independent Labour Party MP blamed immigrants for driving down wages of Scottish workers and he accused them of stealing and being dirty.
In an article written for the journal The Miner in 1887, he criticised the owners of the local Glengarnock ironworks for using “Russian Poles”.
He said: “What object they have in doing so is beyond human ken unless it is, as stated by a speaker at Irvine, to teach men how to live on garlic and oil, or introduce the Black Death, so as to get rid of the surplus labourers.”0 -
Another mid-high single digit Labour lead: Latest YouGov / The Sun results 23rd October - Con 32%, Lab 39%, LD 9%, UKIP 11%; APP -30
On "Best Prime Minister Cameron eases 2 to 35 (Con VI: 93), while Miliband is up 1 to 24 (VI 63).
http://cdn.yougov.com/cumulus_uploads/document/9dt8hflm0b/YG-Archive-Pol-Sun-results-231013.pdf0 -
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California. Sounds good!old_labour said:Vermont.
HYUFD said:Find which US state would suit your personality, apparently I am best suited to Montana
http://science.time.com/2013/10/22/the-united-states-of-attitude-an-interactive-guide-to-americas-moods/0 -
UK car output tops 1.5m for first time since 2008
UK car production has roared back to pre-recession levels as strong domestic and overseas demand for British-built cars continue to revitalise the country’s automotive industry.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/a811f592-3bfc-11e3-b85f-00144feab7de.html#ixzz2icB0akNm
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Shit, I belong in California. Please, no!0
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Too little, too late?
"Union leaders will make concessions to try to save Grangemouth petrochemical plant when they meet management later, the BBC understands."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-24647843
R4 Scotland correspondent pointed out that the 8am meeting was set up to discuss redundancies so may be unŵise to get hopes up.0 -
@Tykejohnno He's not, of course, answering the question that you think you're asking.Tykejohnno said:
"Us blues", when called out on the deception, claimed to be referring to a football team and not the political party. So this denial would still be consistent with it being the same poster. The name, posting style and views are very similar so it's a plausible theory.
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I wouldn't have minded California! Got Colorado.......OldKingCole said:
California. Sounds good!old_labour said:Vermont.
HYUFD said:Find which US state would suit your personality, apparently I am best suited to Montana
http://science.time.com/2013/10/22/the-united-states-of-attitude-an-interactive-guide-to-americas-moods/
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Martin Kettle coming to no conclusion in particular on the impact of Grangemouth on the independence referendum:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/oct/24/grangemouth-scottish-referendum-snp-economy?CMP=twt_fd0 -
I have been amazed at the naivety and blindness of Unite regarding the effects of global pricing and changes in technology. Unite has been acting like the 1960s-1970s instead of realising it is near the 2020s.CarlottaVance said:Too little, too late?
"Union leaders will make concessions to try to save Grangemouth petrochemical plant when they meet management later, the BBC understands."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-24647843
R4 Scotland correspondent pointed out that the 8am meeting was set up to discuss redundancies so may be unŵise to get hopes up.
Will they learn from this - doubt it, but of course they may now realise that their puppet EdM was utterly helpless and unable to assist them as INEOS controlled his strings.0 -
Reading between the lines it may be the issue of the Unite rep was the stumbling block - Salmond hinted that this might be the case.Financier said:
Will they learn from this - doubt it, but of course they may now realise that their puppet EdM was utterly helpless and unable to assist them as INEOS controlled his strings.CarlottaVance said:Too little, too late?
"Union leaders will make concessions to try to save Grangemouth petrochemical plant when they meet management later, the BBC understands."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-24647843
R4 Scotland correspondent pointed out that the 8am meeting was set up to discuss redundancies so may be unŵise to get hopes up.
Labour MPs slagging off INEOS in the HoC yesterday, in contrast to the even handed treatment by the coalition and the SNP, won't have helped.0
