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Unionisation is not the only significant factor in play. For a start, Donald Trump has shown the effectiveness of a "save jobs" platform. Then there is the American legal system awarding squillions of dollars in damages for inadequate software testing and quality control. And the mere fact the lorry did squish the six-year-old who dived under its wheels to catch a baseball proves they did not adequately test for that scenario.GeoffM said:
Exactly. That's the only significant factor in play.Ishmael_Z said:
How well are truckers unionised?rkrkrk said:
Wikipedia says first automatic train operation was in 1967.JosiasJessop said:
Comparing driverless trains with driverless cars is hilarious on so many levels. For one thing, the automated lines are unlikely to have unautomated trains, cyclists, walkers etc on them. They also do not rely on vision and have highly automated signalling systems.SeanT said:Fpt for Richard T
There will be a backlash when a driverless truck kills someone, but I very much doubt that will stop the technology, not least because human-driven trucks kill people every day. Driverless trucks will almost certainly be safer, overall.
Moreover, we've had driverless trains for years, I presume they must have squashed people in their time, but they are still the coming thing. Paris is about to build an entire new rail system with no drivers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_automated_urban_metro_subway_systems
Also note that these 'driverless' systems (such as the Victoria / Central Line or Docklands) still require a staff member on board. There are relatively few train services that are fully automated to the extent where they can safely operate with no staff (from memory, level 4).
Fifty years later there are still drivers on trains.
I think truckers have a bit of time yet...0 -
The Driverless truck will probably operate on an outskirts to outskirts model whereupon a human driver will hop in the cab for the "last mile" delivery in an urban environment.Richard_Tyndall said:
I think the comparison with driverless trains is poor. Their direction is fixed by the tracks and they don't operate in the same environment as pedestrians and other drivers.SeanT said:Fpt for Richard T
There will be a backlash when a driverless truck kills someone, but I very much doubt that will stop the technology, not least because human-driven trucks kill people every day. Driverless trucks will almost certainly be safer, overall.
Moreover, we've had driverless trains for years, I presume they must have squashed people in their time, but they are still the coming thing. Paris is about to build an entire new rail system with no drivers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_automated_urban_metro_subway_systems
I am sure driverless trucks will come. But it won't be soon and it will be preceded by a very extended period of time where they have human passengers as backups in case something goes wrong. We are already seeing it with the tests of automatic cars in the US.0 -
We are not there yet
We have lost our soul
The course has been set
We're digging our own hole
We're going backwards
Armed with new technology
Going backwards
To a caveman mentality
We can emulate on consoles
Killings we can control
With senses that have been dulled
Because there's nothing inside
We feel nothing inside
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiQNUiNy--g0 -
Hyperbole much? It's not much different to what would happen if you lived on the HS2 line - in fact it's better because you wouldn't even have to move.GeoffM said:
It's interesting to find out what price you put on my life and freedom. Thanks.firstlight40 said:
Can't we just sell Gibraltar to the Spanish for £50bn (we have to offer to sell to them first). Keep £40bn for ourselves to offset Brexit and chuck the 32000 Gibraltarians £300K each. I'm sure the EU commission would be happy to give Spain the 50bn they need.williamglenn said:
Her plan is to be Mrs No for two years until the EU falls at her feet with a comprehensive trade agreement, the SNP give up in awed admiration, and the people reward her with a huge majority.Pulpstar said:Looks like Theresa May's Brexit is between a rock and a hard place right now !
Do I get a say in the matter?0 -
Driverless cars and lorries will end up with a 'guard' with human override keys or similar.
For those who perceive driverless lorries - who loads them, unloads them and moves the goods from road to destination?
The drivers are usually more than just drivers.
Who/what throws your Amazon parcel over the wall? Who/what records it?
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The issue with driverless stuff isn't the driverless vehicles - it's the ones driven by humans.
The right thing to do at some point will be to make human operation of a road vehicle illegal.0 -
That would seem intuitive at first glance. Driving massive distances over the desert in the US or Australia, as an example.Alistair said:
The Driverless truck will probably operate on an outskirts to outskirts model whereupon a human driver will hop in the cab for the "last mile" delivery in an urban environment.Richard_Tyndall said:
I think the comparison with driverless trains is poor. Their direction is fixed by the tracks and they don't operate in the same environment as pedestrians and other drivers.SeanT said:Fpt for Richard T
There will be a backlash when a driverless truck kills someone, but I very much doubt that will stop the technology, not least because human-driven trucks kill people every day. Driverless trucks will almost certainly be safer, overall.
Moreover, we've had driverless trains for years, I presume they must have squashed people in their time, but they are still the coming thing. Paris is about to build an entire new rail system with no drivers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_automated_urban_metro_subway_systems
I am sure driverless trucks will come. But it won't be soon and it will be preceded by a very extended period of time where they have human passengers as backups in case something goes wrong. We are already seeing it with the tests of automatic cars in the US.
However I think they work best with external stimuli .... road markings, signs etc to react to and learn from. So featureless environments would actually be more dangerous to them.0 -
Yeah, because everyone living next door to HS2 will get a replacement King, currency, language and national anthem for Christmas.williamglenn said:
Hyperbole much? It's not much different to what would happen if you lived on the HS2 line - in fact it's better because you wouldn't even have to move.GeoffM said:
It's interesting to find out what price you put on my life and freedom. Thanks.firstlight40 said:
Can't we just sell Gibraltar to the Spanish for £50bn (we have to offer to sell to them first). Keep £40bn for ourselves to offset Brexit and chuck the 32000 Gibraltarians £300K each. I'm sure the EU commission would be happy to give Spain the 50bn they need.williamglenn said:
Her plan is to be Mrs No for two years until the EU falls at her feet with a comprehensive trade agreement, the SNP give up in awed admiration, and the people reward her with a huge majority.Pulpstar said:Looks like Theresa May's Brexit is between a rock and a hard place right now !
Do I get a say in the matter?0 -
It's still 299.999K more than you would get from Spain if they take over :-)GeoffM said:
It's interesting to find out what price you put on my life and freedom. Thanks.firstlight40 said:
Can't we just sell Gibraltar to the Spanish for £50bn (we have to offer to sell to them first). Keep £40bn for ourselves to offset Brexit and chuck the 32000 Gibraltarians £300K each. I'm sure the EU commission would be happy to give Spain the 50bn they need.williamglenn said:
Her plan is to be Mrs No for two years until the EU falls at her feet with a comprehensive trade agreement, the SNP give up in awed admiration, and the people reward her with a huge majority.Pulpstar said:Looks like Theresa May's Brexit is between a rock and a hard place right now !
Do I get a say in the matter?0 -
Such a system might not gain many savings. You still need a cab with controls a human can use; you still need drivers/operators available to drive them for much of the time. And they will have to divert to a hub to get the drives on board, rather than directly to the destination.Alistair said:
The Driverless truck will probably operate on an outskirts to outskirts model whereupon a human driver will hop in the cab for the "last mile" delivery in an urban environment.Richard_Tyndall said:
I think the comparison with driverless trains is poor. Their direction is fixed by the tracks and they don't operate in the same environment as pedestrians and other drivers.SeanT said:Fpt for Richard T
There will be a backlash when a driverless truck kills someone, but I very much doubt that will stop the technology, not least because human-driven trucks kill people every day. Driverless trucks will almost certainly be safer, overall.
Moreover, we've had driverless trains for years, I presume they must have squashed people in their time, but they are still the coming thing. Paris is about to build an entire new rail system with no drivers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_automated_urban_metro_subway_systems
I am sure driverless trucks will come. But it won't be soon and it will be preceded by a very extended period of time where they have human passengers as backups in case something goes wrong. We are already seeing it with the tests of automatic cars in the US.
Google/Alphabet/Waymo have taken a very different route to Tesla et al. Google decided early on that it was pointless having anything less than full automation, as it was impossible for a human to stay alert for the one time in every half hour he might be needed. Therefore they're trying to go big-bang towards full automation, and plan for their cars to have no human controls such as steering wheel (though I bet they have emergency controls through a console / smarthphone).
That's a much harder task.0 -
WTF is going on in French betting? Not only is Macron lengthening, but it's Fillon who is benefiting. This despite polls remaining stable for Fillon and stable or strengthening for Macron. And, of course, time passing which is good for the front-runner.0
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Gibraltar shouldn't be a bargaining chip, and certainly not the people of Gibraltar. Reluctantly I'm beginning to think that my genius idea of selling the Scots might actually be against my deeper principals too. That's a tricky question thoughGeoffM said:
Yeah, because everyone living next door to HS2 will get a replacement King, currency, language and national anthem for Christmas.williamglenn said:
Hyperbole much? It's not much different to what would happen if you lived on the HS2 line - in fact it's better because you wouldn't even have to move.GeoffM said:
It's interesting to find out what price you put on my life and freedom. Thanks.firstlight40 said:
Can't we just sell Gibraltar to the Spanish for £50bn (we have to offer to sell to them first). Keep £40bn for ourselves to offset Brexit and chuck the 32000 Gibraltarians £300K each. I'm sure the EU commission would be happy to give Spain the 50bn they need.williamglenn said:
Her plan is to be Mrs No for two years until the EU falls at her feet with a comprehensive trade agreement, the SNP give up in awed admiration, and the people reward her with a huge majority.Pulpstar said:Looks like Theresa May's Brexit is between a rock and a hard place right now !
Do I get a say in the matter?
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Driverless trucks over long distances? They could call them freight trains. It'll never catch on 0
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Gibraltar's status shouldn't be, neither should mutual security or people with existing residence in the EU/UK but it appears they are all in the pot so to speak.Omnium said:
Gibraltar shouldn't be a bargaining chip, and certainly not the people of Gibraltar. Reluctantly I'm beginning to think that my genius idea of selling the Scots might actually be against my deeper principals too. That's a tricky question thoughGeoffM said:
Yeah, because everyone living next door to HS2 will get a replacement King, currency, language and national anthem for Christmas.williamglenn said:
Hyperbole much? It's not much different to what would happen if you lived on the HS2 line - in fact it's better because you wouldn't even have to move.GeoffM said:
It's interesting to find out what price you put on my life and freedom. Thanks.firstlight40 said:
Can't we just sell Gibraltar to the Spanish for £50bn (we have to offer to sell to them first). Keep £40bn for ourselves to offset Brexit and chuck the 32000 Gibraltarians £300K each. I'm sure the EU commission would be happy to give Spain the 50bn they need.williamglenn said:
Her plan is to be Mrs No for two years until the EU falls at her feet with a comprehensive trade agreement, the SNP give up in awed admiration, and the people reward her with a huge majority.Pulpstar said:Looks like Theresa May's Brexit is between a rock and a hard place right now !
Do I get a say in the matter?0 -
I drove along a road in Austraila a few years ago that had a sign something like : "Bend in ten miles." Then: "Bend in five miles", and every mile down to one, and many other warning signs in that last mile.GeoffM said:
That would seem intuitive at first glance. Driving massive distances over the desert in the US or Australia, as an example.Alistair said:
The Driverless truck will probably operate on an outskirts to outskirts model whereupon a human driver will hop in the cab for the "last mile" delivery in an urban environment.Richard_Tyndall said:
I think the comparison with driverless trains is poor. Their direction is fixed by the tracks and they don't operate in the same environment as pedestrians and other drivers.SeanT said:Fpt for Richard T
There will be a backlash when a driverless truck kills someone, but I very much doubt that will stop the technology, not least because human-driven trucks kill people every day. Driverless trucks will almost certainly be safer, overall.
Moreover, we've had driverless trains for years, I presume they must have squashed people in their time, but they are still the coming thing. Paris is about to build an entire new rail system with no drivers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_automated_urban_metro_subway_systems
I am sure driverless trucks will come. But it won't be soon and it will be preceded by a very extended period of time where they have human passengers as backups in case something goes wrong. We are already seeing it with the tests of automatic cars in the US.
However I think they work best with external stimuli .... road markings, signs etc to react to and learn from. So featureless environments would actually be more dangerous to them.
Eventually we reached the bend, below which was the Murray River. Apparently many drivers went straight down.
There's also a main road in Lincolnshire where an ancient long straight is cut by an airfield (?Scampton?); the road now goes around the outside. A friend told me there used to be a fair few crashes there as well.0 -
Do try to remember that William doesn't like countries. He sees them as a hotbed of democracy, freedom of thought and people actually having some say over their lives. All the things the right thinking elitist should hate with a passion.GeoffM said:
Yeah, because everyone living next door to HS2 will get a replacement King, currency, language and national anthem for Christmas.williamglenn said:
Hyperbole much? It's not much different to what would happen if you lived on the HS2 line - in fact it's better because you wouldn't even have to move.GeoffM said:
It's interesting to find out what price you put on my life and freedom. Thanks.firstlight40 said:
Can't we just sell Gibraltar to the Spanish for £50bn (we have to offer to sell to them first). Keep £40bn for ourselves to offset Brexit and chuck the 32000 Gibraltarians £300K each. I'm sure the EU commission would be happy to give Spain the 50bn they need.williamglenn said:
Her plan is to be Mrs No for two years until the EU falls at her feet with a comprehensive trade agreement, the SNP give up in awed admiration, and the people reward her with a huge majority.Pulpstar said:Looks like Theresa May's Brexit is between a rock and a hard place right now !
Do I get a say in the matter?0 -
No idea, I've just matched another £50 at 5.7 though. Fillon now my worst result.Quincel said:WTF is going on in French betting? Not only is Macron lengthening, but it's Fillon who is benefiting. This despite polls remaining stable for Fillon and stable or strengthening for Macron. And, of course, time passing which is good for the front-runner.
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Not sure if this has already been posted today.Omnium said:
Gibraltar shouldn't be a bargaining chip, and certainly not the people of Gibraltar. Reluctantly I'm beginning to think that my genius idea of selling the Scots might actually be against my deeper principals too. That's a tricky question thoughGeoffM said:
Yeah, because everyone living next door to HS2 will get a replacement King, currency, language and national anthem for Christmas.williamglenn said:
Hyperbole much? It's not much different to what would happen if you lived on the HS2 line - in fact it's better because you wouldn't even have to move.GeoffM said:
It's interesting to find out what price you put on my life and freedom. Thanks.firstlight40 said:
Can't we just sell Gibraltar to the Spanish for £50bn (we have to offer to sell to them first). Keep £40bn for ourselves to offset Brexit and chuck the 32000 Gibraltarians £300K each. I'm sure the EU commission would be happy to give Spain the 50bn they need.williamglenn said:
Her plan is to be Mrs No for two years until the EU falls at her feet with a comprehensive trade agreement, the SNP give up in awed admiration, and the people reward her with a huge majority.Pulpstar said:Looks like Theresa May's Brexit is between a rock and a hard place right now !
Do I get a say in the matter?
https://dutchreview.com/news/international-news/scotland-netherlands-reach-brexit-agreement-annexation/0 -
If driverless vehicles are programmed to make emergency stops for pedestrians what's to prevent people just walking across the road whenever it suits them? People would calculate if a car doing 30mph could stop in time, so why bother waiting for it to pass?JosiasJessop said:
That's an excellent question. Any system designed to allow it to happen will have to stop non-police from doing it. The following might be of interest:rkrkrk said:Does anyone know how the police pull over a driverless car with no one inside?
I'm sure someone has thought of this... Just intrigued as to what the solution is...
http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/future_tense/2016/06/why_police_might_pull_over_self_driving_cars.html
I already wonder how easy it would be to spoof or dazzle the vision sensors of automated cars, yet alone other attacks.0 -
Yep it is Scampton just north of Lincoln. It is the old Roman Road - the A15 - that runs up to the Humber and it really is that straight. There is one roundabout at Caneby Corner further north which is also a bad crash site.JosiasJessop said:
I drove along a road in Austraila a few years ago that had a sign something like : "Bend in ten miles." Then: "Bend in five miles", and every mile down to one, and many other warning signs in that last mile.GeoffM said:
That would seem intuitive at first glance. Driving massive distances over the desert in the US or Australia, as an example.Alistair said:
The Driverless truck will probably operate on an outskirts to outskirts model whereupon a human driver will hop in the cab for the "last mile" delivery in an urban environment.Richard_Tyndall said:
I think the comparison with driverless trains is poor. Their direction is fixed by the tracks and they don't operate in the same environment as pedestrians and other drivers.SeanT said:Fpt for Richard T
There will be a backlash when a driverless truck kills someone, but I very much doubt that will stop the technology, not least because human-driven trucks kill people every day. Driverless trucks will almost certainly be safer, overall.
Moreover, we've had driverless trains for years, I presume they must have squashed people in their time, but they are still the coming thing. Paris is about to build an entire new rail system with no drivers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_automated_urban_metro_subway_systems
I am sure driverless trucks will come. But it won't be soon and it will be preceded by a very extended period of time where they have human passengers as backups in case something goes wrong. We are already seeing it with the tests of automatic cars in the US.
However I think they work best with external stimuli .... road markings, signs etc to react to and learn from. So featureless environments would actually be more dangerous to them.
Eventually we reached the bend, below which was the Murray River. Apparently many drivers went straight down.
There's also a main road in Lincolnshire where an ancient long straight is cut by an airfield (?Scampton?); the road now goes around the outside. A friend told me there used to be a fair few crashes there as well.0 -
Surprisingly polls show young people even oppose legalisation of marijuana and libertarian rightwingers would rather the NHS were replaced by an insurance based healthcare systemkle4 said:
Perhaps, though when you say 'oppose legalisation of drugs' what does that mean exactly? Oppose the legalisation of all drugs, or support some legalisation (eg marijauna but not cocaine)? What level of support for the NHS are we talking about, as support for the NHS to some degree is not seemingly a liberal/conservative position.HYUFD said:
On the whole but the young still support the NHS and polling tends to show they oppose legalisation of drugs so they are not libertarians by any meanskle4 said:
I was thinking in terms of economics over here - when I said more extreme in different directions it was because it seems to me young people are more harsh on economic matters, but far more liberal on social matters, so it doesn't fit the right-left consensus exactly.HYUFD said:
Yes but they still support public services etc and 60 years ago even amongst the young support for abortion and legalised homosexuality and career mothers was a niche view, amongst the young it is now opposition to that which is the niche viewkle4 said:
fewer of the youngest millennials, those aged 18 to 25, support egalitarian family arrangements than did the same age group 20 years earlier.The_Apocalypse said:https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/31/opinion/sunday/do-millennial-men-want-stay-at-home-wives.html
This article in the NY Times is worth a read.
This sort of thing seems to support the theory SeanT was proposing yesterday that the very young seem to more rightwing (for want of a better term, I would class it more as being more extreme, in different directions than those just above them age wise) than previously.0 -
Yes Richard, you are right .... I bit and I should have known better.Richard_Tyndall said:
Do try to remember that William doesn't like countries. He sees them as a hotbed of democracy, freedom of thought and people actually having some say over their lives. All the things the right thinking elitist should hate with a passion.GeoffM said:
Yeah, because everyone living next door to HS2 will get a replacement King, currency, language and national anthem for Christmas.williamglenn said:
Hyperbole much? It's not much different to what would happen if you lived on the HS2 line - in fact it's better because you wouldn't even have to move.GeoffM said:
It's interesting to find out what price you put on my life and freedom. Thanks.firstlight40 said:
Can't we just sell Gibraltar to the Spanish for £50bn (we have to offer to sell to them first). Keep £40bn for ourselves to offset Brexit and chuck the 32000 Gibraltarians £300K each. I'm sure the EU commission would be happy to give Spain the 50bn they need.williamglenn said:
Her plan is to be Mrs No for two years until the EU falls at her feet with a comprehensive trade agreement, the SNP give up in awed admiration, and the people reward her with a huge majority.Pulpstar said:Looks like Theresa May's Brexit is between a rock and a hard place right now !
Do I get a say in the matter?
To be honest, even though this whole conversation is about my home town I'm more interested in the driverless car thread. I'm learning things on that arc.0 -
You'll be fine. The reaction here is very strong.GeoffM said:
Yes Richard, you are right .... I bit and I should have known better.Richard_Tyndall said:
Do try to remember that William doesn't like countries. He sees them as a hotbed of democracy, freedom of thought and people actually having some say over their lives. All the things the right thinking elitist should hate with a passion.GeoffM said:
Yeah, because everyone living next door to HS2 will get a replacement King, currency, language and national anthem for Christmas.williamglenn said:
Hyperbole much? It's not much different to what would happen if you lived on the HS2 line - in fact it's better because you wouldn't even have to move.GeoffM said:
It's interesting to find out what price you put on my life and freedom. Thanks.firstlight40 said:
Can't we just sell Gibraltar to the Spanish for £50bn (we have to offer to sell to them first). Keep £40bn for ourselves to offset Brexit and chuck the 32000 Gibraltarians £300K each. I'm sure the EU commission would be happy to give Spain the 50bn they need.williamglenn said:
Her plan is to be Mrs No for two years until the EU falls at her feet with a comprehensive trade agreement, the SNP give up in awed admiration, and the people reward her with a huge majority.Pulpstar said:Looks like Theresa May's Brexit is between a rock and a hard place right now !
Do I get a say in the matter?
To be honest, even though this whole conversation is about my home town I'm more interested in the driverless car thread. I'm learning things on that arc.
No-one is going to sell you out.0 -
I think Fillon does well with the over 60s, so perhaps some punters are clocking that.Pulpstar said:
No idea, I've just matched another £50 at 5.7 though. Fillon now my worst result.Quincel said:WTF is going on in French betting? Not only is Macron lengthening, but it's Fillon who is benefiting. This despite polls remaining stable for Fillon and stable or strengthening for Macron. And, of course, time passing which is good for the front-runner.
I've just laid off a chunk on him as well.
Squeaky bum time.0 -
Yes, but they're not quite the same. If a French citizen becomes British then it is the same. (I wouldn't care to debate the detail until I've thought further though)Pulpstar said:
Gibraltar's status shouldn't be, neither should mutual security or people with existing residence in the EU/UK but it appears they are all in the pot so to speak.Omnium said:
Gibraltar shouldn't be a bargaining chip, and certainly not the people of Gibraltar. Reluctantly I'm beginning to think that my genius idea of selling the Scots might actually be against my deeper principals too. That's a tricky question thoughGeoffM said:
Yeah, because everyone living next door to HS2 will get a replacement King, currency, language and national anthem for Christmas.williamglenn said:
Hyperbole much? It's not much different to what would happen if you lived on the HS2 line - in fact it's better because you wouldn't even have to move.GeoffM said:
It's interesting to find out what price you put on my life and freedom. Thanks.firstlight40 said:
Can't we just sell Gibraltar to the Spanish for £50bn (we have to offer to sell to them first). Keep £40bn for ourselves to offset Brexit and chuck the 32000 Gibraltarians £300K each. I'm sure the EU commission would be happy to give Spain the 50bn they need.williamglenn said:
Her plan is to be Mrs No for two years until the EU falls at her feet with a comprehensive trade agreement, the SNP give up in awed admiration, and the people reward her with a huge majority.Pulpstar said:Looks like Theresa May's Brexit is between a rock and a hard place right now !
Do I get a say in the matter?0 -
The Eurocrats have got a Presidents(s), the Euro, a (ridiculous) flag, and Ode to Joy.GeoffM said:
Yeah, because everyone living next door to HS2 will get a replacement King, currency, language and national anthem for Christmas.williamglenn said:
Hyperbole much? It's not much different to what would happen if you lived on the HS2 line - in fact it's better because you wouldn't even have to move.GeoffM said:
It's interesting to find out what price you put on my life and freedom. Thanks.firstlight40 said:
Can't we just sell Gibraltar to the Spanish for £50bn (we have to offer to sell to them first). Keep £40bn for ourselves to offset Brexit and chuck the 32000 Gibraltarians £300K each. I'm sure the EU commission would be happy to give Spain the 50bn they need.williamglenn said:
Her plan is to be Mrs No for two years until the EU falls at her feet with a comprehensive trade agreement, the SNP give up in awed admiration, and the people reward her with a huge majority.Pulpstar said:Looks like Theresa May's Brexit is between a rock and a hard place right now !
Do I get a say in the matter?
But, are they missing a trick by not going for a single European language?
What happened to Esperanto?0 -
I've certainly not seen it, and I'm obliged to you for linking itRichard_Tyndall said:
Not sure if this has already been posted today.Omnium said:
Gibraltar shouldn't be a bargaining chip, and certainly not the people of Gibraltar. Reluctantly I'm beginning to think that my genius idea of selling the Scots might actually be against my deeper principals too. That's a tricky question thoughGeoffM said:
Yeah, because everyone living next door to HS2 will get a replacement King, currency, language and national anthem for Christmas.williamglenn said:
Hyperbole much? It's not much different to what would happen if you lived on the HS2 line - in fact it's better because you wouldn't even have to move.GeoffM said:
It's interesting to find out what price you put on my life and freedom. Thanks.firstlight40 said:
Can't we just sell Gibraltar to the Spanish for £50bn (we have to offer to sell to them first). Keep £40bn for ourselves to offset Brexit and chuck the 32000 Gibraltarians £300K each. I'm sure the EU commission would be happy to give Spain the 50bn they need.williamglenn said:
Her plan is to be Mrs No for two years until the EU falls at her feet with a comprehensive trade agreement, the SNP give up in awed admiration, and the people reward her with a huge majority.Pulpstar said:Looks like Theresa May's Brexit is between a rock and a hard place right now !
Do I get a say in the matter?
https://dutchreview.com/news/international-news/scotland-netherlands-reach-brexit-agreement-annexation/
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Ĉu vi parolas Esperante?Casino_Royale said:
The Eurocrats have got a Presidents(s), the Euro, a (ridiculous) flag, and Ode to Joy.GeoffM said:
Yeah, because everyone living next door to HS2 will get a replacement King, currency, language and national anthem for Christmas.williamglenn said:
Hyperbole much? It's not much different to what would happen if you lived on the HS2 line - in fact it's better because you wouldn't even have to move.GeoffM said:
It's interesting to find out what price you put on my life and freedom. Thanks.firstlight40 said:
Can't we just sell Gibraltar to the Spanish for £50bn (we have to offer to sell to them first). Keep £40bn for ourselves to offset Brexit and chuck the 32000 Gibraltarians £300K each. I'm sure the EU commission would be happy to give Spain the 50bn they need.williamglenn said:
Her plan is to be Mrs No for two years until the EU falls at her feet with a comprehensive trade agreement, the SNP give up in awed admiration, and the people reward her with a huge majority.Pulpstar said:Looks like Theresa May's Brexit is between a rock and a hard place right now !
Do I get a say in the matter?
But, are they missing a trick by not going for a single European language?
What happened to Esperanto?0 -
Maybe it explains the betting on the French election at the moment?Omnium said:
I've certainly not seen it, and I'm obliged to you for linking itRichard_Tyndall said:
Not sure if this has already been posted today.Omnium said:
Gibraltar shouldn't be a bargaining chip, and certainly not the people of Gibraltar. Reluctantly I'm beginning to think that my genius idea of selling the Scots might actually be against my deeper principals too. That's a tricky question thoughGeoffM said:
Yeah, because everyone living next door to HS2 will get a replacement King, currency, language and national anthem for Christmas.williamglenn said:
Hyperbole much? It's not much different to what would happen if you lived on the HS2 line - in fact it's better because you wouldn't even have to move.GeoffM said:
It's interesting to find out what price you put on my life and freedom. Thanks.firstlight40 said:
Can't we just sell Gibraltar to the Spanish for £50bn (we have to offer to sell to them first). Keep £40bn for ourselves to offset Brexit and chuck the 32000 Gibraltarians £300K each. I'm sure the EU commission would be happy to give Spain the 50bn they need.williamglenn said:
Her plan is to be Mrs No for two years until the EU falls at her feet with a comprehensive trade agreement, the SNP give up in awed admiration, and the people reward her with a huge majority.Pulpstar said:Looks like Theresa May's Brexit is between a rock and a hard place right now !
Do I get a say in the matter?
https://dutchreview.com/news/international-news/scotland-netherlands-reach-brexit-agreement-annexation/0 -
Unfortunately you fall into exactly the same trap as many on here by thinking that just because Libertarians advocate some element of insurance in the health system they want a US system. The two are not the same at all. Most European countries have an insurance based health system but it remains free at the point of use. And sad to say the health systems of most European countries - the Western ones at least - are considerably better than the NHS at important things like keeping people alive and making them better.HYUFD said:
Surprisingly polls show young people even oppose legalisation of marijuana and libertarian rightwingers would rather the NHS were replaced by an insurance based healthcare systemkle4 said:
Perhaps, though when you say 'oppose legalisation of drugs' what does that mean exactly? Oppose the legalisation of all drugs, or support some legalisation (eg marijauna but not cocaine)? What level of support for the NHS are we talking about, as support for the NHS to some degree is not seemingly a liberal/conservative position.HYUFD said:
On the whole but the young still support the NHS and polling tends to show they oppose legalisation of drugs so they are not libertarians by any meanskle4 said:
I was thinking in terms of economics over here - when I said more extreme in different directions it was because it seems to me young people are more harsh on economic matters, but far more liberal on social matters, so it doesn't fit the right-left consensus exactly.HYUFD said:
Yes but they still support public services etc and 60 years ago even amongst the young support for abortion and legalised homosexuality and career mothers was a niche view, amongst the young it is now opposition to that which is the niche viewkle4 said:
fewer of the youngest millennials, those aged 18 to 25, support egalitarian family arrangements than did the same age group 20 years earlier.The_Apocalypse said:https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/31/opinion/sunday/do-millennial-men-want-stay-at-home-wives.html
This article in the NY Times is worth a read.
This sort of thing seems to support the theory SeanT was proposing yesterday that the very young seem to more rightwing (for want of a better term, I would class it more as being more extreme, in different directions than those just above them age wise) than previously.0 -
Ĝi neniam vere kaptis la multe.Casino_Royale said:
The Eurocrats have got a Presidents(s), the Euro, a (ridiculous) flag, and Ode to Joy.GeoffM said:
Yeah, because everyone living next door to HS2 will get a replacement King, currency, language and national anthem for Christmas.williamglenn said:
Hyperbole much? It's not much different to what would happen if you lived on the HS2 line - in fact it's better because you wouldn't even have to move.GeoffM said:
It's interesting to find out what price you put on my life and freedom. Thanks.firstlight40 said:
Can't we just sell Gibraltar to the Spanish for £50bn (we have to offer to sell to them first). Keep £40bn for ourselves to offset Brexit and chuck the 32000 Gibraltarians £300K each. I'm sure the EU commission would be happy to give Spain the 50bn they need.williamglenn said:
Her plan is to be Mrs No for two years until the EU falls at her feet with a comprehensive trade agreement, the SNP give up in awed admiration, and the people reward her with a huge majority.Pulpstar said:Looks like Theresa May's Brexit is between a rock and a hard place right now !
Do I get a say in the matter?
But, are they missing a trick by not going for a single European language?
What happened to Esperanto?0 -
They have one. It's English!Casino_Royale said:But, are they missing a trick by not going for a single European language?
0 -
Isn't it the case that once we leave English won't be an official language of the EU?Casino_Royale said:
The Eurocrats have got a Presidents(s), the Euro, a (ridiculous) flag, and Ode to Joy.GeoffM said:
Yeah, because everyone living next door to HS2 will get a replacement King, currency, language and national anthem for Christmas.williamglenn said:
Hyperbole much? It's not much different to what would happen if you lived on the HS2 line - in fact it's better because you wouldn't even have to move.GeoffM said:
It's interesting to find out what price you put on my life and freedom. Thanks.firstlight40 said:
Can't we just sell Gibraltar to the Spanish for £50bn (we have to offer to sell to them first). Keep £40bn for ourselves to offset Brexit and chuck the 32000 Gibraltarians £300K each. I'm sure the EU commission would be happy to give Spain the 50bn they need.williamglenn said:
Her plan is to be Mrs No for two years until the EU falls at her feet with a comprehensive trade agreement, the SNP give up in awed admiration, and the people reward her with a huge majority.Pulpstar said:Looks like Theresa May's Brexit is between a rock and a hard place right now !
Do I get a say in the matter?
But, are they missing a trick by not going for a single European language?
What happened to Esperanto?0 -
I approve of the Waymo approach - all or nothing. But I'm pretty sure we'll see hybrid driveless truck's first before full end-to-end autonomous trucking is deployed.JosiasJessop said:
Such a system might not gain many savings. You still need a cab with controls a human can use; you still need drivers/operators available to drive them for much of the time. And they will have to divert to a hub to get the drives on board, rather than directly to the destination.Alistair said:
The Driverless truck will probably operate on an outskirts to outskirts model whereupon a human driver will hop in the cab for the "last mile" delivery in an urban environment.Richard_Tyndall said:
I think the comparison with driverless trains is poor. Their direction is fixed by the tracks and they don't operate in the same environment as pedestrians and other drivers.SeanT said:Fpt for Richard T
There will be a backlash when a driverless truck kills someone, but I very much doubt that will stop the technology, not least because human-driven trucks kill people every day. Driverless trucks will almost certainly be safer, overall.
Moreover, we've had driverless trains for years, I presume they must have squashed people in their time, but they are still the coming thing. Paris is about to build an entire new rail system with no drivers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_automated_urban_metro_subway_systems
I am sure driverless trucks will come. But it won't be soon and it will be preceded by a very extended period of time where they have human passengers as backups in case something goes wrong. We are already seeing it with the tests of automatic cars in the US.
Google/Alphabet/Waymo have taken a very different route to Tesla et al. Google decided early on that it was pointless having anything less than full automation, as it was impossible for a human to stay alert for the one time in every half hour he might be needed. Therefore they're trying to go big-bang towards full automation, and plan for their cars to have no human controls such as steering wheel (though I bet they have emergency controls through a console / smarthphone).
That's a much harder task.0 -
Malta might object to that.SandyRentool said:
Isn't it the case that once we leave English won't be an official language of the EU?Casino_Royale said:
The Eurocrats have got a Presidents(s), the Euro, a (ridiculous) flag, and Ode to Joy.GeoffM said:
Yeah, because everyone living next door to HS2 will get a replacement King, currency, language and national anthem for Christmas.williamglenn said:
Hyperbole much? It's not much different to what would happen if you lived on the HS2 line - in fact it's better because you wouldn't even have to move.GeoffM said:
It's interesting to find out what price you put on my life and freedom. Thanks.firstlight40 said:
Can't we just sell Gibraltar to the Spanish for £50bn (we have to offer to sell to them first). Keep £40bn for ourselves to offset Brexit and chuck the 32000 Gibraltarians £300K each. I'm sure the EU commission would be happy to give Spain the 50bn they need.williamglenn said:
Her plan is to be Mrs No for two years until the EU falls at her feet with a comprehensive trade agreement, the SNP give up in awed admiration, and the people reward her with a huge majority.Pulpstar said:Looks like Theresa May's Brexit is between a rock and a hard place right now !
Do I get a say in the matter?
But, are they missing a trick by not going for a single European language?
What happened to Esperanto?0 -
They also spend more than the UK on healthcare.Richard_Tyndall said:
Unfortunately you fall into exactly the same trap as many on here by thinking that just because Libertarians advocate some element of insurance in the health system they want a US system. The two are not the same at all. Most European countries have an insurance based health system but it remains free at the point of use. And sad to say the health systems of most European countries - the Western ones at least - are considerably better than the NHS at important things like keeping people alive and making them better.HYUFD said:
Surprisingly polls show young people even oppose legalisation of marijuana and libertarian rightwingers would rather the NHS were replaced by an insurance based healthcare systemkle4 said:
Perhaps, though when you say 'oppose legalisation of drugs' what does that mean exactly? Oppose the legalisation of all drugs, or support some legalisation (eg marijauna but not cocaine)? What level of support for the NHS are we talking about, as support for the NHS to some degree is not seemingly a liberal/conservative position.HYUFD said:
On the whole but the young still support the NHS and polling tends to show they oppose legalisation of drugs so they are not libertarians by any meanskle4 said:
I was thinking in terms of economics over here - when I said more extreme in different directions it was because it seems to me young people are more harsh on economic matters, but far more liberal on social matters, so it doesn't fit the right-left consensus exactly.HYUFD said:
Yes but they still support public services etc and 60 years ago even amongst the young support for abortion and legalised homosexuality and career mothers was a niche view, amongst the young it is now opposition to that which is the niche viewkle4 said:
fewer of the youngest millennials, those aged 18 to 25, support egalitarian family arrangements than did the same age group 20 years earlier.The_Apocalypse said:https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/31/opinion/sunday/do-millennial-men-want-stay-at-home-wives.html
This article in the NY Times is worth a read.
This sort of thing seems to support the theory SeanT was proposing yesterday that the very young seem to more rightwing (for want of a better term, I would class it more as being more extreme, in different directions than those just above them age wise) than previously.0 -
Will the coronation be at Celtic ParkRichard_Tyndall said:
Not sure if this has already been posted today.Omnium said:
Gibraltar shouldn't be a bargaining chip, and certainly not the people of Gibraltar. Reluctantly I'm beginning to think that my genius idea of selling the Scots might actually be against my deeper principals too. That's a tricky question thoughGeoffM said:
Yeah, because everyone living next door to HS2 will get a replacement King, currency, language and national anthem for Christmas.williamglenn said:
Hyperbole much? It's not much different to what would happen if you lived on the HS2 line - in fact it's better because you wouldn't even have to move.GeoffM said:
It's interesting to find out what price you put on my life and freedom. Thanks.firstlight40 said:
Can't we just sell Gibraltar to the Spanish for £50bn (we have to offer to sell to them first). Keep £40bn for ourselves to offset Brexit and chuck the 32000 Gibraltarians £300K each. I'm sure the EU commission would be happy to give Spain the 50bn they need.williamglenn said:
Her plan is to be Mrs No for two years until the EU falls at her feet with a comprehensive trade agreement, the SNP give up in awed admiration, and the people reward her with a huge majority.Pulpstar said:Looks like Theresa May's Brexit is between a rock and a hard place right now !
Do I get a say in the matter?
https://dutchreview.com/news/international-news/scotland-netherlands-reach-brexit-agreement-annexation/
? 0 -
Personally I think a continental system of healthcare would be no bad thing if we were starting from scratch. But we aren't, and the last thing the NHS needs is more poorly implemented reorganisation.Alistair said:
They also spend more than the UK on healthcare.
@Alistair point is a good one.
More incentives for employers to provide some level of health plan would be a good idea I think - halve the benefit in kind taxation element perhaps ?0 -
Then either Malta or Ireland will have to declare English as their official language.Omnium said:
Malta might object to that.SandyRentool said:
Isn't it the case that once we leave English won't be an official language of the EU?Casino_Royale said:
The Eurocrats have got a Presidents(s), the Euro, a (ridiculous) flag, and Ode to Joy.GeoffM said:
Yeah, because everyone living next door to HS2 will get a replacement King, currency, language and national anthem for Christmas.williamglenn said:
Hyperbole much? It's not much different to what would happen if you lived on the HS2 line - in fact it's better because you wouldn't even have to move.GeoffM said:
It's interesting to find out what price you put on my life and freedom. Thanks.firstlight40 said:
Can't we just sell Gibraltar to the Spanish for £50bn (we have to offer to sell to them first). Keep £40bn for ourselves to offset Brexit and chuck the 32000 Gibraltarians £300K each. I'm sure the EU commission would be happy to give Spain the 50bn they need.williamglenn said:
Her plan is to be Mrs No for two years until the EU falls at her feet with a comprehensive trade agreement, the SNP give up in awed admiration, and the people reward her with a huge majority.Pulpstar said:Looks like Theresa May's Brexit is between a rock and a hard place right now !
Do I get a say in the matter?
But, are they missing a trick by not going for a single European language?
What happened to Esperanto?0 -
This is just getting stupid.
If Corbyn gave a damn about the Labour Party he would have gone by now.0 -
I agree with this.Pulpstar said:
Personally I think a continental system of healthcare would be no bad thing if we were starting from scratch. But we aren't, and the last thing the NHS needs is more poorly implemented reorganisation.Alistair said:
They also spend more than the UK on healthcare.
@Alistair point is a good one.
More incentives for employers to provide some level of health plan would be a good idea I think - halve the benefit in kind taxation element perhaps ?0 -
Doubt it. Ireland and Malta use it, and most of the rest use it as their main secondary.SandyRentool said:
Isn't it the case that once we leave English won't be an official language of the EU?Casino_Royale said:
The Eurocrats have got a Presidents(s), the Euro, a (ridiculous) flag, and Ode to Joy.GeoffM said:
Yeah, because everyone living next door to HS2 will get a replacement King, currency, language and national anthem for Christmas.williamglenn said:
Hyperbole much? It's not much different to what would happen if you lived on the HS2 line - in fact it's better because you wouldn't even have to move.GeoffM said:
It's interesting to find out what price you put on my life and freedom. Thanks.firstlight40 said:
Can't we just sell Gibraltar to the Spanish for £50bn (we have to offer to sell to them first). Keep £40bn for ourselves to offset Brexit and chuck the 32000 Gibraltarians £300K each. I'm sure the EU commission would be happy to give Spain the 50bn they need.williamglenn said:
Her plan is to be Mrs No for two years until the EU falls at her feet with a comprehensive trade agreement, the SNP give up in awed admiration, and the people reward her with a huge majority.Pulpstar said:Looks like Theresa May's Brexit is between a rock and a hard place right now !
Do I get a say in the matter?
But, are they missing a trick by not going for a single European language?
What happened to Esperanto?
The EU will make itself even more irrelevant without it.0 -
kle4 said:
Ĝi neniam vere kaptis la multe.Casino_Royale said:What happened to Esperanto?
Esperanto ne francan kaj tial neniam gajnos.
0 -
No speako Dago.GeoffM said:
Ĉu vi parolas Esperante?Casino_Royale said:
The Eurocrats have got a Presidents(s), the Euro, a (ridiculous) flag, and Ode to Joy.GeoffM said:
Yeah, because everyone living next door to HS2 will get a replacement King, currency, language and national anthem for Christmas.williamglenn said:
Hyperbole much? It's not much different to what would happen if you lived on the HS2 line - in fact it's better because you wouldn't even have to move.GeoffM said:
It's interesting to find out what price you put on my life and freedom. Thanks.firstlight40 said:
Can't we just sell Gibraltar to the Spanish for £50bn (we have to offer to sell to them first). Keep £40bn for ourselves to offset Brexit and chuck the 32000 Gibraltarians £300K each. I'm sure the EU commission would be happy to give Spain the 50bn they need.williamglenn said:
Her plan is to be Mrs No for two years until the EU falls at her feet with a comprehensive trade agreement, the SNP give up in awed admiration, and the people reward her with a huge majority.Pulpstar said:Looks like Theresa May's Brexit is between a rock and a hard place right now !
Do I get a say in the matter?
But, are they missing a trick by not going for a single European language?
What happened to Esperanto?0 -
Crazy talk.Beverley_C said:kle4 said:
Ĝi neniam vere kaptis la multe.Casino_Royale said:What happened to Esperanto?
Esperanto ne francan kaj tial neniam gajnos.
Godbless you Google, despite your evil ways.0 -
0
-
That would require the EU to apply common sense rather than act like a bunch of arrogant unaccountable jobsworths. So let's see.Casino_Royale said:
Doubt it. Ireland and Malta use it, and most of the rest use it as their main secondary.SandyRentool said:
Isn't it the case that once we leave English won't be an official language of the EU?Casino_Royale said:
The Eurocrats have got a Presidents(s), the Euro, a (ridiculous) flag, and Ode to Joy.GeoffM said:
Yeah, because everyone living next door to HS2 will get a replacement King, currency, language and national anthem for Christmas.williamglenn said:
Hyperbole much? It's not much different to what would happen if you lived on the HS2 line - in fact it's better because you wouldn't even have to move.GeoffM said:
It's interesting to find out what price you put on my life and freedom. Thanks.firstlight40 said:
Can't we just sell Gibraltar to the Spanish for £50bn (we have to offer to sell to them first). Keep £40bn for ourselves to offset Brexit and chuck the 32000 Gibraltarians £300K each. I'm sure the EU commission would be happy to give Spain the 50bn they need.williamglenn said:
Her plan is to be Mrs No for two years until the EU falls at her feet with a comprehensive trade agreement, the SNP give up in awed admiration, and the people reward her with a huge majority.Pulpstar said:Looks like Theresa May's Brexit is between a rock and a hard place right now !
Do I get a say in the matter?
But, are they missing a trick by not going for a single European language?
What happened to Esperanto?
The EU will make itself even more irrelevant without it.0 -
Who connects the air lines?chestnut said:Driverless cars and lorries will end up with a 'guard' with human override keys or similar.
For those who perceive driverless lorries - who loads them, unloads them and moves the goods from road to destination?
The drivers are usually more than just drivers.
Who/what throws your Amazon parcel over the wall? Who/what records it?0 -
I thought it was a joint one in Malta, however you're quite right it seemsSandyRentool said:
Then either Malta or Ireland will have to declare English as their official language.Omnium said:
Malta might object to that.SandyRentool said:
Isn't it the case that once we leave English won't be an official language of the EU?Casino_Royale said:
The Eurocrats have got a Presidents(s), the Euro, a (ridiculous) flag, and Ode to Joy.GeoffM said:
Yeah, because everyone living next door to HS2 will get a replacement King, currency, language and national anthem for Christmas.williamglenn said:
Hyperbole much? It's not much different to what would happen if you lived on the HS2 line - in fact it's better because you wouldn't even have to move.GeoffM said:
It's interesting to find out what price you put on my life and freedom. Thanks.firstlight40 said:
Can't we just sell Gibraltar to the Spanish for £50bn (we have to offer to sell to them first). Keep £40bn for ourselves to offset Brexit and chuck the 32000 Gibraltarians £300K each. I'm sure the EU commission would be happy to give Spain the 50bn they need.williamglenn said:
Her plan is to be Mrs No for two years until the EU falls at her feet with a comprehensive trade agreement, the SNP give up in awed admiration, and the people reward her with a huge majority.Pulpstar said:Looks like Theresa May's Brexit is between a rock and a hard place right now !
Do I get a say in the matter?
But, are they missing a trick by not going for a single European language?
What happened to Esperanto?
I was mainly alluding to Ireland.0 -
Good one!Beverley_C said:kle4 said:
Ĝi neniam vere kaptis la multe.Casino_Royale said:What happened to Esperanto?
Esperanto ne francan kaj tial neniam gajnos.0 -
Isn't their national language technically Maltese?Omnium said:
Malta might object to that.SandyRentool said:
Isn't it the case that once we leave English won't be an official language of the EU?Casino_Royale said:
The Eurocrats have got a Presidents(s), the Euro, a (ridiculous) flag, and Ode to Joy.GeoffM said:
Yeah, because everyone living next door to HS2 will get a replacement King, currency, language and national anthem for Christmas.williamglenn said:
Hyperbole much? It's not much different to what would happen if you lived on the HS2 line - in fact it's better because you wouldn't even have to move.GeoffM said:
It's interesting to find out what price you put on my life and freedom. Thanks.firstlight40 said:
Can't we just sell Gibraltar to the Spanish for £50bn (we have to offer to sell to them first). Keep £40bn for ourselves to offset Brexit and chuck the 32000 Gibraltarians £300K each. I'm sure the EU commission would be happy to give Spain the 50bn they need.williamglenn said:
Her plan is to be Mrs No for two years until the EU falls at her feet with a comprehensive trade agreement, the SNP give up in awed admiration, and the people reward her with a huge majority.Pulpstar said:Looks like Theresa May's Brexit is between a rock and a hard place right now !
Do I get a say in the matter?
But, are they missing a trick by not going for a single European language?
What happened to Esperanto?
Which makes me wonder, are people who speak that language Maltesers?0 -
Mi lernis gin kiam mi estis adoleskanto. Mi kulpigas Slippery Jim DiGrizkle4 said:
Crazy talk.Beverley_C said:kle4 said:
Ĝi neniam vere kaptis la multe.Casino_Royale said:What happened to Esperanto?
Esperanto ne francan kaj tial neniam gajnos.
Godbless you Google, despite your evil ways.0 -
Official languages Maltese and EnglishPhilip_Thompson said:
Isn't their national language technically Maltese?Omnium said:
Malta might object to that.SandyRentool said:
Isn't it the case that once we leave English won't be an official language of the EU?Casino_Royale said:
The Eurocrats have got a Presidents(s), the Euro, a (ridiculous) flag, and Ode to Joy.GeoffM said:
Yeah, because everyone living next door to HS2 will get a replacement King, currency, language and national anthem for Christmas.williamglenn said:
Hyperbole much? It's not much different to what would happen if you lived on the HS2 line - in fact it's better because you wouldn't even have to move.GeoffM said:
It's interesting to find out what price you put on my life and freedom. Thanks.firstlight40 said:
Can't we just sell Gibraltar to the Spanish for £50bn (we have to offer to sell to them first). Keep £40bn for ourselves to offset Brexit and chuck the 32000 Gibraltarians £300K each. I'm sure the EU commission would be happy to give Spain the 50bn they need.williamglenn said:
Her plan is to be Mrs No for two years until the EU falls at her feet with a comprehensive trade agreement, the SNP give up in awed admiration, and the people reward her with a huge majority.Pulpstar said:Looks like Theresa May's Brexit is between a rock and a hard place right now !
Do I get a say in the matter?
But, are they missing a trick by not going for a single European language?
What happened to Esperanto?
Which makes me wonder, are people who speak that language Maltesers?
Official languages in Ireland: Irish and ENGLISH
0 -
Gobsmacked when I read that it was supposedly the same as a HS2 compulsory purchase, then I saw who posted it...GeoffM said:
Yeah, because everyone living next door to HS2 will get a replacement King, currency, language and national anthem for Christmas.williamglenn said:
Hyperbole much? It's not much different to what would happen if you lived on the HS2 line - in fact it's better because you wouldn't even have to move.GeoffM said:
It's interesting to find out what price you put on my life and freedom. Thanks.firstlight40 said:
Can't we just sell Gibraltar to the Spanish for £50bn (we have to offer to sell to them first). Keep £40bn for ourselves to offset Brexit and chuck the 32000 Gibraltarians £300K each. I'm sure the EU commission would be happy to give Spain the 50bn they need.williamglenn said:
Her plan is to be Mrs No for two years until the EU falls at her feet with a comprehensive trade agreement, the SNP give up in awed admiration, and the people reward her with a huge majority.Pulpstar said:Looks like Theresa May's Brexit is between a rock and a hard place right now !
Do I get a say in the matter?0 -
It's a really nice flag. I'm going to bake a cake tomorrow and decorate it with that design.Casino_Royale said:
The Eurocrats have got a Presidents(s), the Euro, a (ridiculous) flag, and Ode to Joy.
But, are they missing a trick by not going for a single European language?
What happened to Esperanto?
0 -
Sed mi bezonas Google por legi ĝin!Beverley_C said:
Mi lernis gin kiam mi estis adoleskanto.kle4 said:
Crazy talk.Beverley_C said:kle4 said:
Ĝi neniam vere kaptis la multe.Casino_Royale said:What happened to Esperanto?
Esperanto ne francan kaj tial neniam gajnos.
Godbless you Google, despite your evil ways.
They still actually teach it though?0 -
Torby_Fennel said:
It's a really nice flag. I'm going to bake a cake tomorrow and decorate it with that design.Casino_Royale said:
The Eurocrats have got a Presidents(s), the Euro, a (ridiculous) flag, and Ode to Joy.
But, are they missing a trick by not going for a single European language?
What happened to Esperanto? 0 -
Enjoy cutting it upTorby_Fennel said:
It's a really nice flag. I'm going to bake a cake tomorrow and decorate it with that design.Casino_Royale said:
The Eurocrats have got a Presidents(s), the Euro, a (ridiculous) flag, and Ode to Joy.
But, are they missing a trick by not going for a single European language?
What happened to Esperanto?
0 -
Official in the country yes, but have they declared English to the EU?Sunil_Prasannan said:
Official languages Maltese and EnglishPhilip_Thompson said:
Isn't their national language technically Maltese?Omnium said:
Malta might object to that.SandyRentool said:
Isn't it the case that once we leave English won't be an official language of the EU?Casino_Royale said:
The Eurocrats have got a Presidents(s), the Euro, a (ridiculous) flag, and Ode to Joy.GeoffM said:
Yeah, because everyone living next door to HS2 will get a replacement King, currency, language and national anthem for Christmas.williamglenn said:
Hyperbole much? It's not much different to what would happen if you lived on the HS2 line - in fact it's better because you wouldn't even have to move.GeoffM said:
It's interesting to find out what price you put on my life and freedom. Thanks.firstlight40 said:
Can't we just sell Gibraltar to the Spanish for £50bn (we have to offer to sell to them first). Keep £40bn for ourselves to offset Brexit and chuck the 32000 Gibraltarians £300K each. I'm sure the EU commission would be happy to give Spain the 50bn they need.williamglenn said:
Her plan is to be Mrs No for two years until the EU falls at her feet with a comprehensive trade agreement, the SNP give up in awed admiration, and the people reward her with a huge majority.Pulpstar said:Looks like Theresa May's Brexit is between a rock and a hard place right now !
Do I get a say in the matter?
But, are they missing a trick by not going for a single European language?
What happened to Esperanto?
Which makes me wonder, are people who speak that language Maltesers?
Official languages in Ireland: Irish and ENGLISH0 -
Ok so I was right below after all.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Official languages Maltese and EnglishPhilip_Thompson said:
Isn't their national language technically Maltese?Omnium said:
Malta might object to that.SandyRentool said:
Isn't it the case that once we leave English won't be an official language of the EU?Casino_Royale said:
The Eurocrats have got a Presidents(s), the Euro, a (ridiculous) flag, and Ode to Joy.GeoffM said:
Yeah, because everyone living next door to HS2 will get a replacement King, currency, language and national anthem for Christmas.williamglenn said:
Hyperbole much? It's not much different to what would happen if you lived on the HS2 line - in fact it's better because you wouldn't even have to move.GeoffM said:
It's interesting to find out what price you put on my life and freedom. Thanks.firstlight40 said:
Can't we just sell Gibraltar to the Spanish for £50bn (we have to offer to sell to them first). Keep £40bn for ourselves to offset Brexit and chuck the 32000 Gibraltarians £300K each. I'm sure the EU commission would be happy to give Spain the 50bn they need.williamglenn said:
Her plan is to be Mrs No for two years until the EU falls at her feet with a comprehensive trade agreement, the SNP give up in awed admiration, and the people reward her with a huge majority.Pulpstar said:Looks like Theresa May's Brexit is between a rock and a hard place right now !
Do I get a say in the matter?
But, are they missing a trick by not going for a single European language?
What happened to Esperanto?
Which makes me wonder, are people who speak that language Maltesers?
Official languages in Ireland: Irish and ENGLISH
I believe that Malta can entirely happily get by in Maltese, but that it's not true to say that Ireland can happily work in Irish.
Anyway English will have to be maintained as an official EU language.0 -
No need to as the UK was already a member when they joined so they only needed to ask for their own language to be added to the existing list. When we leave if anyone proposes removing English they could object and request it to be added on their behalf.SandyRentool said:
Official in the country yes, but have they declared English to the EU?Sunil_Prasannan said:
Official languages Maltese and EnglishPhilip_Thompson said:
Isn't their national language technically Maltese?Omnium said:
Malta might object to that.SandyRentool said:
Isn't it the case that once we leave English won't be an official language of the EU?Casino_Royale said:
The Eurocrats have got a Presidents(s), the Euro, a (ridiculous) flag, and Ode to Joy.GeoffM said:
Yeah, because everyone living next door to HS2 will get a replacement King, currency, language and national anthem for Christmas.williamglenn said:
Hyperbole much? It's not much different to what would happen if you lived on the HS2 line - in fact it's better because you wouldn't even have to move.GeoffM said:
It's interesting to find out what price you put on my life and freedom. Thanks.firstlight40 said:
Can't we just sell Gibraltar to the Spanish for £50bn (we have to offer to sell to them first). Keep £40bn for ourselves to offset Brexit and chuck the 32000 Gibraltarians £300K each. I'm sure the EU commission would be happy to give Spain the 50bn they need.williamglenn said:
Her plan is to be Mrs No for two years until the EU falls at her feet with a comprehensive trade agreement, the SNP give up in awed admiration, and the people reward her with a huge majority.Pulpstar said:Looks like Theresa May's Brexit is between a rock and a hard place right now !
Do I get a say in the matter?
But, are they missing a trick by not going for a single European language?
What happened to Esperanto?
Which makes me wonder, are people who speak that language Maltesers?
Official languages in Ireland: Irish and ENGLISH0 -
Somebody has to do it since May was found sleeping. She completely forgot Gibraltar.Omnium said:Kier Starmer and the BBC, discuss!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-394656310 -
-
It has definitely blindsided the government. Decidedly poor form of Spain to put it in I feel, then again that hardly bucks the trend.surbiton said:
Somebody has to do it since May was found sleeping. She completely forgot Gibraltar.Omnium said:Kier Starmer and the BBC, discuss!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-394656310 -
Kier Starmer makes for awful Telly and worse radio - the BBC are all over him though.surbiton said:
Somebody has to do it since May was found sleeping. She completely forgot Gibraltar.Omnium said:Kier Starmer and the BBC, discuss!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-394656310 -
I suppose the fitting thing to do would be to cut out a slice proportionate to the UK and chuck it into the bin.RobD said:
Enjoy cutting it up
0 -
She probably thought the EU wouldn't stoop so low as to play games with the citizens of Gibraltar.surbiton said:
Somebody has to do it since May was found sleeping. She completely forgot Gibraltar.Omnium said:Kier Starmer and the BBC, discuss!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-394656310 -
No point covering up incompetence.RobD said:
She probably thought the EU wouldn't stoop so low as to play games with the citizens of Gibraltar.surbiton said:
Somebody has to do it since May was found sleeping. She completely forgot Gibraltar.Omnium said:Kier Starmer and the BBC, discuss!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-394656310 -
Are you talking about our future Prime Minister ?Omnium said:
Kier Starmer makes for awful Telly and worse radio - the BBC are all over him though.surbiton said:
Somebody has to do it since May was found sleeping. She completely forgot Gibraltar.Omnium said:Kier Starmer and the BBC, discuss!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-394656310 -
I taught myself and sent off for a book. The British Esperanto Society was out of the book in question so they sent me a copy of Esperanto por Infanoj which I still have and a complete two-way dictionary.kle4 said:
Sed mi bezonas Google por legi ĝin!Beverley_C said:
Mi lernis gin kiam mi estis adoleskanto.kle4 said:
Crazy talk.Beverley_C said:kle4 said:
Ĝi neniam vere kaptis la multe.Casino_Royale said:What happened to Esperanto?
Esperanto ne francan kaj tial neniam gajnos.
Godbless you Google, despite your evil ways.
They still actually teach it though?
Here you go....
0 -
Surprised at the hypocrisy...for us to play games with EU citizens in the UK is utterly deplorable, but for the EU to do the same with those of Gibraltar is somehow not worth a single complaint.surbiton said:
No point covering up incompetence.RobD said:
She probably thought the EU wouldn't stoop so low as to play games with the citizens of Gibraltar.surbiton said:
Somebody has to do it since May was found sleeping. She completely forgot Gibraltar.Omnium said:Kier Starmer and the BBC, discuss!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-394656310 -
KSWNBPMsurbiton said:
Are you talking about our future Prime Minister ?Omnium said:
Kier Starmer makes for awful Telly and worse radio - the BBC are all over him though.surbiton said:
Somebody has to do it since May was found sleeping. She completely forgot Gibraltar.Omnium said:Kier Starmer and the BBC, discuss!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-394656310 -
True but Blair and Brown tried throwing more money at the NHS and it made bugger all difference.Alistair said:
They also spend more than the UK on healthcare.Richard_Tyndall said:
Unfortunately you fall into exactly the same trap as many on here by thinking that just because Libertarians advocate some element of insurance in the health system they want a US system. The two are not the same at all. Most European countries have an insurance based health system but it remains free at the point of use. And sad to say the health systems of most European countries - the Western ones at least - are considerably better than the NHS at important things like keeping people alive and making them better.HYUFD said:
Surprisingly polls show young people even oppose legalisation of marijuana and libertarian rightwingers would rather the NHS were replaced by an insurance based healthcare systemkle4 said:
Perhaps, though when you say 'oppose legalisation of drugs' what does that mean exactly? Oppose the legalisation of all drugs, or support some legalisation (eg marijauna but not cocaine)? What level of support for the NHS are we talking about, as support for the NHS to some degree is not seemingly a liberal/conservative position.HYUFD said:
On the whole but the young still support the NHS and polling tends to show they oppose legalisation of drugs so they are not libertarians by any meanskle4 said:
I was thinking in terms of economics over here - when I said more extreme in different directions it was because it seems to me young people are more harsh on economic matters, but far more liberal on social matters, so it doesn't fit the right-left consensus exactly.HYUFD said:
Yes but they still support public services etc and 60 years ago even amongst the young support for abortion and legalised homosexuality and career mothers was a niche view, amongst the young it is now opposition to that which is the niche viewkle4 said:
fewer of the youngest millennials, those aged 18 to 25, support egalitarian family arrangements than did the same age group 20 years earlier.The_Apocalypse said:https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/31/opinion/sunday/do-millennial-men-want-stay-at-home-wives.html
This article in the NY Times is worth a read.
This sort of thing seems to support the theory SeanT was proposing yesterday that the very young seem to more rightwing (for want of a better term, I would class it more as being more extreme, in different directions than those just above them age wise) than previously.0 -
I presume the second one is full of useful phrases like, "There will be no whitewash at the White House."Beverley_C said:
I taught myself and sent off for a book. The British Esperanto Society was out of the book in question so they sent me a copy of Esperanto por Infanoj which I still have and a complete two-way dictionary.kle4 said:
Sed mi bezonas Google por legi ĝin!Beverley_C said:
Mi lernis gin kiam mi estis adoleskanto.kle4 said:
Crazy talk.Beverley_C said:kle4 said:
Ĝi neniam vere kaptis la multe.Casino_Royale said:What happened to Esperanto?
Esperanto ne francan kaj tial neniam gajnos.
Godbless you Google, despite your evil ways.
They still actually teach it though?
Here you go....0 -
-
Is Spain threatening to ethnically cleanse the area?RobD said:
Surprised at the hypocrisy...for us to play games with EU citizens in the UK is utterly deplorable, but for the EU to do the same with those of Gibraltar is somehow not worth a single complaint.surbiton said:
No point covering up incompetence.RobD said:
She probably thought the EU wouldn't stoop so low as to play games with the citizens of Gibraltar.surbiton said:
Somebody has to do it since May was found sleeping. She completely forgot Gibraltar.Omnium said:Kier Starmer and the BBC, discuss!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39465631
The citizens voted overwhelmingly to remain in the EU after all so it can't be such a tragedy for the people if sovereignty is transferred. Those who don't like the idea but were keen on Brexit could even consider it 'taking one for the team' in order to help secure a good deal for the UK. 0 -
Err... hang on..... white = blanko wash=lava (is it a future tense verb so that would be lavos) house=domo so...williamglenn said:
I presume the second one is full of useful phrases like, "There will be no whitewash at the White House."Beverley_C said:
I taught myself and sent off for a book. The British Esperanto Society was out of the book in question so they sent me a copy of Esperanto por Infanoj which I still have and a complete two-way dictionary.kle4 said:
Sed mi bezonas Google por legi ĝin!Beverley_C said:
Mi lernis gin kiam mi estis adoleskanto.kle4 said:
Crazy talk.Beverley_C said:kle4 said:
Ĝi neniam vere kaptis la multe.Casino_Royale said:What happened to Esperanto?
Esperanto ne francan kaj tial neniam gajnos.
Godbless you Google, despite your evil ways.
They still actually teach it though?
Here you go....
Gi ne estos blanka lavos en la blanka domo0 -
Having put the future security of both EU citizens and British citizens on the table, Britain is in no position to accuse the EU of stooping low.RobD said:
She probably thought the EU wouldn't stoop so low as to play games with the citizens of Gibraltar.surbiton said:
Somebody has to do it since May was found sleeping. She completely forgot Gibraltar.Omnium said:Kier Starmer and the BBC, discuss!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39465631
The EU's position is in any case logical. After Brexit, the dispute between Britain and Spain over Gibraltar will involve only one EU country. It would be quite wrong for the rest of the EU to start from a position of forcing its member to make concessions on such a dispute against its will. I thought Leavers liked the idea of bilateral negotiations?0 -
Ethnically cleanse? What are you bleating on about?williamglenn said:
Is Spain threatening to ethnically cleanse the area?RobD said:
Surprised at the hypocrisy...for us to play games with EU citizens in the UK is utterly deplorable, but for the EU to do the same with those of Gibraltar is somehow not worth a single complaint.surbiton said:
No point covering up incompetence.RobD said:
She probably thought the EU wouldn't stoop so low as to play games with the citizens of Gibraltar.surbiton said:
Somebody has to do it since May was found sleeping. She completely forgot Gibraltar.Omnium said:Kier Starmer and the BBC, discuss!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39465631
The citizens voted overwhelmingly to remain in the EU after all so it can't be such a tragedy for the people if sovereignty is transferred. Those who don't like the idea but were keen on Brexit could even consider it 'taking one for the team' in order to help secure a good deal for the UK.
If you asked the Gibraltarians if they wanted to join Spain, I'm sure you'd get a result similar to the last referendum. The recent news will no doubt harden their resolve.0 -
Except Spain has zero legal basis for the claim. Or is that not an issue because they are now on the side of the EU?AlastairMeeks said:
Having put the future security of both EU citizens and British citizens on the table, Britain is in no position to accuse the EU of stooping low.RobD said:
She probably thought the EU wouldn't stoop so low as to play games with the citizens of Gibraltar.surbiton said:
Somebody has to do it since May was found sleeping. She completely forgot Gibraltar.Omnium said:Kier Starmer and the BBC, discuss!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39465631
The EU's position is in any case logical. After Brexit, the dispute between Britain and Spain over Gibraltar will involve only one EU country. It would be quite wrong for the rest of the EU to start from a position of forcing its member to make concessions on such a dispute against its will. I thought Leavers liked the idea of bilateral negotiations?
And really, if they are comparable, why the lack outrage from you on this issue? You were quite vocal on the security issue.0 -
No doubt you'd favour ethnic cleansing of British nationals.williamglenn said:
Is Spain threatening to ethnically cleanse the area?RobD said:
Surprised at the hypocrisy...for us to play games with EU citizens in the UK is utterly deplorable, but for the EU to do the same with those of Gibraltar is somehow not worth a single complaint.surbiton said:
No point covering up incompetence.RobD said:
She probably thought the EU wouldn't stoop so low as to play games with the citizens of Gibraltar.surbiton said:
Somebody has to do it since May was found sleeping. She completely forgot Gibraltar.Omnium said:Kier Starmer and the BBC, discuss!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39465631
The citizens voted overwhelmingly to remain in the EU after all so it can't be such a tragedy for the people if sovereignty is transferred. Those who don't like the idea but were keen on Brexit could even consider it 'taking one for the team' in order to help secure a good deal for the UK.0 -
I thought we did "The Treaty of Utrecht Article X" earlier in the day?RobD said:Except Spain has zero legal basis for the claim. Or is that not an issue because they are now on the side of the EU?
And really, if they are comparable, why the lack outrage from you on this issue? You were quite vocal on the security issue.
0 -
Gibraltar is British when it wants to be. It is nothing more than a low tax, no duties smugglers den. Who is the MP for Gibraltar in the HoC ?RobD said:
Except Spain has zero legal basis for the claim. Or is that not an issue because they are now on the side of the EU?AlastairMeeks said:
Having put the future security of both EU citizens and British citizens on the table, Britain is in no position to accuse the EU of stooping low.RobD said:
She probably thought the EU wouldn't stoop so low as to play games with the citizens of Gibraltar.surbiton said:
Somebody has to do it since May was found sleeping. She completely forgot Gibraltar.Omnium said:Kier Starmer and the BBC, discuss!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39465631
The EU's position is in any case logical. After Brexit, the dispute between Britain and Spain over Gibraltar will involve only one EU country. It would be quite wrong for the rest of the EU to start from a position of forcing its member to make concessions on such a dispute against its will. I thought Leavers liked the idea of bilateral negotiations?0 -
Spain ceded Gib to us fair and square in 1713RobD said:
Except Spain has zero legal basis for the claim. Or is that not an issue because they are now on the side of the EU?AlastairMeeks said:
Having put the future security of both EU citizens and British citizens on the table, Britain is in no position to accuse the EU of stooping low.RobD said:
She probably thought the EU wouldn't stoop so low as to play games with the citizens of Gibraltar.surbiton said:
Somebody has to do it since May was found sleeping. She completely forgot Gibraltar.Omnium said:Kier Starmer and the BBC, discuss!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39465631
The EU's position is in any case logical. After Brexit, the dispute between Britain and Spain over Gibraltar will involve only one EU country. It would be quite wrong for the rest of the EU to start from a position of forcing its member to make concessions on such a dispute against its will. I thought Leavers liked the idea of bilateral negotiations?
And really, if they are comparable, why the lack outrage from you on this issue? You were quite vocal on the security issue.
0 -
When has Gibraltar not wanted to be British? Or are you just talking out of your arse.surbiton said:
Gibraltar is British when it wants to be. It is nothing more than a low tax, no duties smugglers den. Who is the MP for Gibraltar in the HoC ?RobD said:
Except Spain has zero legal basis for the claim. Or is that not an issue because they are now on the side of the EU?AlastairMeeks said:
Having put the future security of both EU citizens and British citizens on the table, Britain is in no position to accuse the EU of stooping low.RobD said:
She probably thought the EU wouldn't stoop so low as to play games with the citizens of Gibraltar.surbiton said:
Somebody has to do it since May was found sleeping. She completely forgot Gibraltar.Omnium said:Kier Starmer and the BBC, discuss!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39465631
The EU's position is in any case logical. After Brexit, the dispute between Britain and Spain over Gibraltar will involve only one EU country. It would be quite wrong for the rest of the EU to start from a position of forcing its member to make concessions on such a dispute against its will. I thought Leavers liked the idea of bilateral negotiations?0 -
Fair point, we should offer the people of Gibraltar the option of becoming part of the UK. Then we can tell the Spanish to fuck off forever.surbiton said:
Gibraltar is British when it wants to be. It is nothing more than a low tax, no duties smugglers den. Who is the MP for Gibraltar in the HoC ?RobD said:
Except Spain has zero legal basis for the claim. Or is that not an issue because they are now on the side of the EU?AlastairMeeks said:
Having put the future security of both EU citizens and British citizens on the table, Britain is in no position to accuse the EU of stooping low.RobD said:
She probably thought the EU wouldn't stoop so low as to play games with the citizens of Gibraltar.surbiton said:
Somebody has to do it since May was found sleeping. She completely forgot Gibraltar.Omnium said:Kier Starmer and the BBC, discuss!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39465631
The EU's position is in any case logical. After Brexit, the dispute between Britain and Spain over Gibraltar will involve only one EU country. It would be quite wrong for the rest of the EU to start from a position of forcing its member to make concessions on such a dispute against its will. I thought Leavers liked the idea of bilateral negotiations?0 -
Geoff_Msurbiton said:
Gibraltar is British when it wants to be. It is nothing more than a low tax, no duties smugglers den. Who is the MP for Gibraltar in the HoC ?RobD said:
Except Spain has zero legal basis for the claim. Or is that not an issue because they are now on the side of the EU?AlastairMeeks said:
Having put the future security of both EU citizens and British citizens on the table, Britain is in no position to accuse the EU of stooping low.RobD said:
She probably thought the EU wouldn't stoop so low as to play games with the citizens of Gibraltar.surbiton said:
Somebody has to do it since May was found sleeping. She completely forgot Gibraltar.Omnium said:Kier Starmer and the BBC, discuss!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39465631
The EU's position is in any case logical. After Brexit, the dispute between Britain and Spain over Gibraltar will involve only one EU country. It would be quite wrong for the rest of the EU to start from a position of forcing its member to make concessions on such a dispute against its will. I thought Leavers liked the idea of bilateral negotiations? 0 -
They seem to be content with their current constitutional settlement. Not sure what difference having an MP would have.glw said:
Fair point, we should offer the people of Gibraltar the option of becoming part of the UK. Then we can tell the Spanish to fuck off forever.surbiton said:
Gibraltar is British when it wants to be. It is nothing more than a low tax, no duties smugglers den. Who is the MP for Gibraltar in the HoC ?RobD said:
Except Spain has zero legal basis for the claim. Or is that not an issue because they are now on the side of the EU?AlastairMeeks said:
Having put the future security of both EU citizens and British citizens on the table, Britain is in no position to accuse the EU of stooping low.RobD said:
She probably thought the EU wouldn't stoop so low as to play games with the citizens of Gibraltar.surbiton said:
Somebody has to do it since May was found sleeping. She completely forgot Gibraltar.Omnium said:Kier Starmer and the BBC, discuss!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39465631
The EU's position is in any case logical. After Brexit, the dispute between Britain and Spain over Gibraltar will involve only one EU country. It would be quite wrong for the rest of the EU to start from a position of forcing its member to make concessions on such a dispute against its will. I thought Leavers liked the idea of bilateral negotiations?0 -
Dream On. You are living in Fantasy Landsurbiton said:
Are you talking about our future Prime Minister ?Omnium said:
Kier Starmer makes for awful Telly and worse radio - the BBC are all over him though.surbiton said:
Somebody has to do it since May was found sleeping. She completely forgot Gibraltar.Omnium said:Kier Starmer and the BBC, discuss!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39465631 0 -
(1) Britain questioning security co-operation
(2) Spain questing Gibraltar and
(3) Nothing happening to either post-Beexit
Is actually quite a British way of negotiation emphasising compromise.0 -
Well that's simply untrue. Spain maintains that Gibraltar is a colony, a view with some international support (and the fact that the Treaty of Utrecht contemplates that Britain might one day give up sovereignty points in that direction). It maintains the Gibraltarians, as descendants of settlers, do not have the right of self-determination.RobD said:
Except Spain has zero legal basis for the claim. Or is that not an issue because they are now on the side of the EU?AlastairMeeks said:
Having put the future security of both EU citizens and British citizens on the table, Britain is in no position to accuse the EU of stooping low.RobD said:
She probably thought the EU wouldn't stoop so low as to play games with the citizens of Gibraltar.surbiton said:
Somebody has to do it since May was found sleeping. She completely forgot Gibraltar.Omnium said:Kier Starmer and the BBC, discuss!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39465631
The EU's position is in any case logical. After Brexit, the dispute between Britain and Spain over Gibraltar will involve only one EU country. It would be quite wrong for the rest of the EU to start from a position of forcing its member to make concessions on such a dispute against its will. I thought Leavers liked the idea of bilateral negotiations?
Britain clearly has current sovereignty. But to say that Spain has zero legal basis for its position is wildly overstating the case.-1 -
Some of the same people who think that putting Scotland's interests first would be the tail wagging the dog are quite happy to subjgate the British national interest to 30,000 people living in an enclave in the Med.RobD said:
Ethnically cleanse? What are you bleating on about?williamglenn said:
Is Spain threatening to ethnically cleanse the area?RobD said:
Surprised at the hypocrisy...for us to play games with EU citizens in the UK is utterly deplorable, but for the EU to do the same with those of Gibraltar is somehow not worth a single complaint.surbiton said:
No point covering up incompetence.RobD said:
She probably thought the EU wouldn't stoop so low as to play games with the citizens of Gibraltar.surbiton said:
Somebody has to do it since May was found sleeping. She completely forgot Gibraltar.Omnium said:Kier Starmer and the BBC, discuss!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39465631
The citizens voted overwhelmingly to remain in the EU after all so it can't be such a tragedy for the people if sovereignty is transferred. Those who don't like the idea but were keen on Brexit could even consider it 'taking one for the team' in order to help secure a good deal for the UK.
If you asked the Gibraltarians if they wanted to join Spain, I'm sure you'd get a result similar to the last referendum. The recent news will no doubt harden their resolve.0 -
Colony or not, the treaty ceded the territory to Britain in perpetuity "without any exception or impediment whatsoever".AlastairMeeks said:
Well that's simply untrue. Spain maintains that Gibraltar is a colony, a view with some international support (and the fact that the Treaty of Utrecht contemplates that Britain might one day give up sovereignty points in that direction). It maintains the Gibraltarians, as descendants of settlers, do not have the right of self-determination.RobD said:
Except Spain has zero legal basis for the claim. Or is that not an issue because they are now on the side of the EU?AlastairMeeks said:
Having put the future security of both EU citizens and British citizens on the table, Britain is in no position to accuse the EU of stooping low.RobD said:
She probably thought the EU wouldn't stoop so low as to play games with the citizens of Gibraltar.surbiton said:
Somebody has to do it since May was found sleeping. She completely forgot Gibraltar.Omnium said:Kier Starmer and the BBC, discuss!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39465631
The EU's position is in any case logical. After Brexit, the dispute between Britain and Spain over Gibraltar will involve only one EU country. It would be quite wrong for the rest of the EU to start from a position of forcing its member to make concessions on such a dispute against its will. I thought Leavers liked the idea of bilateral negotiations?
Britain clearly has current sovereignty. But to say that Spain has zero legal basis for its position is wildly overstating the case.0 -
"The most widely spoken language in the EU is English, which is understood by 51% of all adults, while German is the most widely used mother tongue, spoken by 18%. All 24 official languages of the EU are accepted as working languages, but in practice only two – English and French – are in wide general use and of these English is the more commonly used."Omnium said:
Ok so I was right below after all.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Official languages Maltese and EnglishPhilip_Thompson said:
Isn't their national language technically Maltese?Omnium said:
Malta might object to that.SandyRentool said:
Isn't it the case that once we leave English won't be an official language of the EU?Casino_Royale said:
The Eurocrats have got a Presidents(s), the Euro, a (ridiculous) flag, and Ode to Joy.GeoffM said:
Yeah, because everyone living next door to HS2 will get a replacement King, currency, language and national anthem for Christmas.williamglenn said:
Hyperbole much? It's not much different to what would happen if you lived on the HS2 line - in fact it's better because you wouldn't even have to move.GeoffM said:
It's interesting to find out what price you put on my life and freedom. Thanks.firstlight40 said:
Can't we just sell Gibraltar to the Spanish for £50bn (we have to offer to sell to them first). Keep £40bn for ourselves to offset Brexit and chuck the 32000 Gibraltarians £300K each. I'm sure the EU commission would be happy to give Spain the 50bn they need.williamglenn said:
Her plan is to be Mrs No for two years until the EU falls at her feet with a comprehensive trade agreement, the SNP give up in awed admiration, and the people reward her with a huge majority.Pulpstar said:Looks like Theresa May's Brexit is between a rock and a hard place right now !
Do I get a say in the matter?
But, are they missing a trick by not going for a single European language?
What happened to Esperanto?
Which makes me wonder, are people who speak that language Maltesers?
Official languages in Ireland: Irish and ENGLISH
I believe that Malta can entirely happily get by in Maltese, but that it's not true to say that Ireland can happily work in Irish.
Anyway English will have to be maintained as an official EU language.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_the_European_Union
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Would Gibraltar be happy to have their affairs administered from London?RobD said:
When has Gibraltar not wanted to be British? Or are you just talking out of your arse.surbiton said:
Gibraltar is British when it wants to be. It is nothing more than a low tax, no duties smugglers den. Who is the MP for Gibraltar in the HoC ?RobD said:
Except Spain has zero legal basis for the claim. Or is that not an issue because they are now on the side of the EU?AlastairMeeks said:
Having put the future security of both EU citizens and British citizens on the table, Britain is in no position to accuse the EU of stooping low.RobD said:
She probably thought the EU wouldn't stoop so low as to play games with the citizens of Gibraltar.surbiton said:
Somebody has to do it since May was found sleeping. She completely forgot Gibraltar.Omnium said:Kier Starmer and the BBC, discuss!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39465631
The EU's position is in any case logical. After Brexit, the dispute between Britain and Spain over Gibraltar will involve only one EU country. It would be quite wrong for the rest of the EU to start from a position of forcing its member to make concessions on such a dispute against its will. I thought Leavers liked the idea of bilateral negotiations?0 -
These unequal treaties from a colonial period are not worth the paper it is written on. I suppose to you the Independence movement in North America was an insurrection ?RobD said:
Colony or not, the treaty ceded the territory to Britain in perpetuity.AlastairMeeks said:
Well that's simply untrue. Spain maintains that Gibraltar is a colony, a view with some international support (and the fact that the Treaty of Utrecht contemplates that Britain might one day give up sovereignty points in that direction). It maintains the Gibraltarians, as descendants of settlers, do not have the right of self-determination.RobD said:
Except Spain has zero legal basis for the claim. Or is that not an issue because they are now on the side of the EU?AlastairMeeks said:
Having put the future security of both EU citizens and British citizens on the table, Britain is in no position to accuse the EU of stooping low.RobD said:
She probably thought the EU wouldn't stoop so low as to play games with the citizens of Gibraltar.surbiton said:
Somebody has to do it since May was found sleeping. She completely forgot Gibraltar.Omnium said:Kier Starmer and the BBC, discuss!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39465631
The EU's position is in any case logical. After Brexit, the dispute between Britain and Spain over Gibraltar will involve only one EU country. It would be quite wrong for the rest of the EU to start from a position of forcing its member to make concessions on such a dispute against its will. I thought Leavers liked the idea of bilateral negotiations?
Britain clearly has current sovereignty. But to say that Spain has zero legal basis for its position is wildly overstating the case.0 -
They seem the be okay with some affairs being administered from London. Still, I don't think home rule is on the table.williamglenn said:
Would Gibraltar be happy to have their affairs administered from London?RobD said:
When has Gibraltar not wanted to be British? Or are you just talking out of your arse.surbiton said:
Gibraltar is British when it wants to be. It is nothing more than a low tax, no duties smugglers den. Who is the MP for Gibraltar in the HoC ?RobD said:
Except Spain has zero legal basis for the claim. Or is that not an issue because they are now on the side of the EU?AlastairMeeks said:
Having put the future security of both EU citizens and British citizens on the table, Britain is in no position to accuse the EU of stooping low.RobD said:
She probably thought the EU wouldn't stoop so low as to play games with the citizens of Gibraltar.surbiton said:
Somebody has to do it since May was found sleeping. She completely forgot Gibraltar.Omnium said:Kier Starmer and the BBC, discuss!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39465631
The EU's position is in any case logical. After Brexit, the dispute between Britain and Spain over Gibraltar will involve only one EU country. It would be quite wrong for the rest of the EU to start from a position of forcing its member to make concessions on such a dispute against its will. I thought Leavers liked the idea of bilateral negotiations?0
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