There will be a backlash when a driverless truck kills someone, but I very much doubt that will stop the technology, not least because human-driven trucks kill people every day. Driverless trucks will almost certainly be safer, overall.
Moreover, we've had driverless trains for years, I presume they must have squashed people in their time, but they are still the coming thing. Paris is about to build an entire new rail system with no drivers.
Comparing driverless trains with driverless cars is hilarious on so many levels. For one thing, the automated lines are unlikely to have unautomated trains, cyclists, walkers etc on them. They also do not rely on vision and have highly automated signalling systems.
Also note that these 'driverless' systems (such as the Victoria / Central Line or Docklands) still require a staff member on board. There are relatively few train services that are fully automated to the extent where they can safely operate with no staff (from memory, level 4).
Wikipedia says first automatic train operation was in 1967. Fifty years later there are still drivers on trains.
I think truckers have a bit of time yet...
How well are truckers unionised?
Exactly. That's the only significant factor in play.
Unionisation is not the only significant factor in play. For a start, Donald Trump has shown the effectiveness of a "save jobs" platform. Then there is the American legal system awarding squillions of dollars in damages for inadequate software testing and quality control. And the mere fact the lorry did squish the six-year-old who dived under its wheels to catch a baseball proves they did not adequately test for that scenario.
There will be a backlash when a driverless truck kills someone, but I very much doubt that will stop the technology, not least because human-driven trucks kill people every day. Driverless trucks will almost certainly be safer, overall.
Moreover, we've had driverless trains for years, I presume they must have squashed people in their time, but they are still the coming thing. Paris is about to build an entire new rail system with no drivers.
I think the comparison with driverless trains is poor. Their direction is fixed by the tracks and they don't operate in the same environment as pedestrians and other drivers.
I am sure driverless trucks will come. But it won't be soon and it will be preceded by a very extended period of time where they have human passengers as backups in case something goes wrong. We are already seeing it with the tests of automatic cars in the US.
The Driverless truck will probably operate on an outskirts to outskirts model whereupon a human driver will hop in the cab for the "last mile" delivery in an urban environment.
We are not there yet We have lost our soul The course has been set We're digging our own hole We're going backwards Armed with new technology Going backwards To a caveman mentality
We can emulate on consoles Killings we can control With senses that have been dulled Because there's nothing inside We feel nothing inside
Looks like Theresa May's Brexit is between a rock and a hard place right now !
Her plan is to be Mrs No for two years until the EU falls at her feet with a comprehensive trade agreement, the SNP give up in awed admiration, and the people reward her with a huge majority.
Can't we just sell Gibraltar to the Spanish for £50bn (we have to offer to sell to them first). Keep £40bn for ourselves to offset Brexit and chuck the 32000 Gibraltarians £300K each. I'm sure the EU commission would be happy to give Spain the 50bn they need.
It's interesting to find out what price you put on my life and freedom. Thanks. Do I get a say in the matter?
Hyperbole much? It's not much different to what would happen if you lived on the HS2 line - in fact it's better because you wouldn't even have to move.
There will be a backlash when a driverless truck kills someone, but I very much doubt that will stop the technology, not least because human-driven trucks kill people every day. Driverless trucks will almost certainly be safer, overall.
Moreover, we've had driverless trains for years, I presume they must have squashed people in their time, but they are still the coming thing. Paris is about to build an entire new rail system with no drivers.
I think the comparison with driverless trains is poor. Their direction is fixed by the tracks and they don't operate in the same environment as pedestrians and other drivers.
I am sure driverless trucks will come. But it won't be soon and it will be preceded by a very extended period of time where they have human passengers as backups in case something goes wrong. We are already seeing it with the tests of automatic cars in the US.
The Driverless truck will probably operate on an outskirts to outskirts model whereupon a human driver will hop in the cab for the "last mile" delivery in an urban environment.
That would seem intuitive at first glance. Driving massive distances over the desert in the US or Australia, as an example.
However I think they work best with external stimuli .... road markings, signs etc to react to and learn from. So featureless environments would actually be more dangerous to them.
Looks like Theresa May's Brexit is between a rock and a hard place right now !
Her plan is to be Mrs No for two years until the EU falls at her feet with a comprehensive trade agreement, the SNP give up in awed admiration, and the people reward her with a huge majority.
Can't we just sell Gibraltar to the Spanish for £50bn (we have to offer to sell to them first). Keep £40bn for ourselves to offset Brexit and chuck the 32000 Gibraltarians £300K each. I'm sure the EU commission would be happy to give Spain the 50bn they need.
It's interesting to find out what price you put on my life and freedom. Thanks. Do I get a say in the matter?
Hyperbole much? It's not much different to what would happen if you lived on the HS2 line - in fact it's better because you wouldn't even have to move.
Yeah, because everyone living next door to HS2 will get a replacement King, currency, language and national anthem for Christmas.
Looks like Theresa May's Brexit is between a rock and a hard place right now !
Her plan is to be Mrs No for two years until the EU falls at her feet with a comprehensive trade agreement, the SNP give up in awed admiration, and the people reward her with a huge majority.
Can't we just sell Gibraltar to the Spanish for £50bn (we have to offer to sell to them first). Keep £40bn for ourselves to offset Brexit and chuck the 32000 Gibraltarians £300K each. I'm sure the EU commission would be happy to give Spain the 50bn they need.
It's interesting to find out what price you put on my life and freedom. Thanks. Do I get a say in the matter?
It's still 299.999K more than you would get from Spain if they take over :-)
There will be a backlash when a driverless truck kills someone, but I very much doubt that will stop the technology, not least because human-driven trucks kill people every day. Driverless trucks will almost certainly be safer, overall.
Moreover, we've had driverless trains for years, I presume they must have squashed people in their time, but they are still the coming thing. Paris is about to build an entire new rail system with no drivers.
I think the comparison with driverless trains is poor. Their direction is fixed by the tracks and they don't operate in the same environment as pedestrians and other drivers.
I am sure driverless trucks will come. But it won't be soon and it will be preceded by a very extended period of time where they have human passengers as backups in case something goes wrong. We are already seeing it with the tests of automatic cars in the US.
The Driverless truck will probably operate on an outskirts to outskirts model whereupon a human driver will hop in the cab for the "last mile" delivery in an urban environment.
Such a system might not gain many savings. You still need a cab with controls a human can use; you still need drivers/operators available to drive them for much of the time. And they will have to divert to a hub to get the drives on board, rather than directly to the destination.
Google/Alphabet/Waymo have taken a very different route to Tesla et al. Google decided early on that it was pointless having anything less than full automation, as it was impossible for a human to stay alert for the one time in every half hour he might be needed. Therefore they're trying to go big-bang towards full automation, and plan for their cars to have no human controls such as steering wheel (though I bet they have emergency controls through a console / smarthphone).
WTF is going on in French betting? Not only is Macron lengthening, but it's Fillon who is benefiting. This despite polls remaining stable for Fillon and stable or strengthening for Macron. And, of course, time passing which is good for the front-runner.
Looks like Theresa May's Brexit is between a rock and a hard place right now !
Her plan is to be Mrs No for two years until the EU falls at her feet with a comprehensive trade agreement, the SNP give up in awed admiration, and the people reward her with a huge majority.
Can't we just sell Gibraltar to the Spanish for £50bn (we have to offer to sell to them first). Keep £40bn for ourselves to offset Brexit and chuck the 32000 Gibraltarians £300K each. I'm sure the EU commission would be happy to give Spain the 50bn they need.
It's interesting to find out what price you put on my life and freedom. Thanks. Do I get a say in the matter?
Hyperbole much? It's not much different to what would happen if you lived on the HS2 line - in fact it's better because you wouldn't even have to move.
Yeah, because everyone living next door to HS2 will get a replacement King, currency, language and national anthem for Christmas.
Gibraltar shouldn't be a bargaining chip, and certainly not the people of Gibraltar. Reluctantly I'm beginning to think that my genius idea of selling the Scots might actually be against my deeper principals too. That's a tricky question though
Looks like Theresa May's Brexit is between a rock and a hard place right now !
Her plan is to be Mrs No for two years until the EU falls at her feet with a comprehensive trade agreement, the SNP give up in awed admiration, and the people reward her with a huge majority.
Can't we just sell Gibraltar to the Spanish for £50bn (we have to offer to sell to them first). Keep £40bn for ourselves to offset Brexit and chuck the 32000 Gibraltarians £300K each. I'm sure the EU commission would be happy to give Spain the 50bn they need.
It's interesting to find out what price you put on my life and freedom. Thanks. Do I get a say in the matter?
Hyperbole much? It's not much different to what would happen if you lived on the HS2 line - in fact it's better because you wouldn't even have to move.
Yeah, because everyone living next door to HS2 will get a replacement King, currency, language and national anthem for Christmas.
Gibraltar shouldn't be a bargaining chip, and certainly not the people of Gibraltar. Reluctantly I'm beginning to think that my genius idea of selling the Scots might actually be against my deeper principals too. That's a tricky question though
Gibraltar's status shouldn't be, neither should mutual security or people with existing residence in the EU/UK but it appears they are all in the pot so to speak.
There will be a backlash when a driverless truck kills someone, but I very much doubt that will stop the technology, not least because human-driven trucks kill people every day. Driverless trucks will almost certainly be safer, overall.
Moreover, we've had driverless trains for years, I presume they must have squashed people in their time, but they are still the coming thing. Paris is about to build an entire new rail system with no drivers.
I think the comparison with driverless trains is poor. Their direction is fixed by the tracks and they don't operate in the same environment as pedestrians and other drivers.
I am sure driverless trucks will come. But it won't be soon and it will be preceded by a very extended period of time where they have human passengers as backups in case something goes wrong. We are already seeing it with the tests of automatic cars in the US.
The Driverless truck will probably operate on an outskirts to outskirts model whereupon a human driver will hop in the cab for the "last mile" delivery in an urban environment.
That would seem intuitive at first glance. Driving massive distances over the desert in the US or Australia, as an example.
However I think they work best with external stimuli .... road markings, signs etc to react to and learn from. So featureless environments would actually be more dangerous to them.
I drove along a road in Austraila a few years ago that had a sign something like : "Bend in ten miles." Then: "Bend in five miles", and every mile down to one, and many other warning signs in that last mile.
Eventually we reached the bend, below which was the Murray River. Apparently many drivers went straight down.
There's also a main road in Lincolnshire where an ancient long straight is cut by an airfield (?Scampton?); the road now goes around the outside. A friend told me there used to be a fair few crashes there as well.
Looks like Theresa May's Brexit is between a rock and a hard place right now !
Her plan is to be Mrs No for two years until the EU falls at her feet with a comprehensive trade agreement, the SNP give up in awed admiration, and the people reward her with a huge majority.
Can't we just sell Gibraltar to the Spanish for £50bn (we have to offer to sell to them first). Keep £40bn for ourselves to offset Brexit and chuck the 32000 Gibraltarians £300K each. I'm sure the EU commission would be happy to give Spain the 50bn they need.
It's interesting to find out what price you put on my life and freedom. Thanks. Do I get a say in the matter?
Hyperbole much? It's not much different to what would happen if you lived on the HS2 line - in fact it's better because you wouldn't even have to move.
Yeah, because everyone living next door to HS2 will get a replacement King, currency, language and national anthem for Christmas.
Do try to remember that William doesn't like countries. He sees them as a hotbed of democracy, freedom of thought and people actually having some say over their lives. All the things the right thinking elitist should hate with a passion.
WTF is going on in French betting? Not only is Macron lengthening, but it's Fillon who is benefiting. This despite polls remaining stable for Fillon and stable or strengthening for Macron. And, of course, time passing which is good for the front-runner.
No idea, I've just matched another £50 at 5.7 though. Fillon now my worst result.
Looks like Theresa May's Brexit is between a rock and a hard place right now !
Her plan is to be Mrs No for two years until the EU falls at her feet with a comprehensive trade agreement, the SNP give up in awed admiration, and the people reward her with a huge majority.
Can't we just sell Gibraltar to the Spanish for £50bn (we have to offer to sell to them first). Keep £40bn for ourselves to offset Brexit and chuck the 32000 Gibraltarians £300K each. I'm sure the EU commission would be happy to give Spain the 50bn they need.
It's interesting to find out what price you put on my life and freedom. Thanks. Do I get a say in the matter?
Hyperbole much? It's not much different to what would happen if you lived on the HS2 line - in fact it's better because you wouldn't even have to move.
Yeah, because everyone living next door to HS2 will get a replacement King, currency, language and national anthem for Christmas.
Gibraltar shouldn't be a bargaining chip, and certainly not the people of Gibraltar. Reluctantly I'm beginning to think that my genius idea of selling the Scots might actually be against my deeper principals too. That's a tricky question though
Does anyone know how the police pull over a driverless car with no one inside? I'm sure someone has thought of this... Just intrigued as to what the solution is...
That's an excellent question. Any system designed to allow it to happen will have to stop non-police from doing it. The following might be of interest:
I already wonder how easy it would be to spoof or dazzle the vision sensors of automated cars, yet alone other attacks.
If driverless vehicles are programmed to make emergency stops for pedestrians what's to prevent people just walking across the road whenever it suits them? People would calculate if a car doing 30mph could stop in time, so why bother waiting for it to pass?
There will be a backlash when a driverless truck kills someone, but I very much doubt that will stop the technology, not least because human-driven trucks kill people every day. Driverless trucks will almost certainly be safer, overall.
Moreover, we've had driverless trains for years, I presume they must have squashed people in their time, but they are still the coming thing. Paris is about to build an entire new rail system with no drivers.
I think the comparison with driverless trains is poor. Their direction is fixed by the tracks and they don't operate in the same environment as pedestrians and other drivers.
I am sure driverless trucks will come. But it won't be soon and it will be preceded by a very extended period of time where they have human passengers as backups in case something goes wrong. We are already seeing it with the tests of automatic cars in the US.
The Driverless truck will probably operate on an outskirts to outskirts model whereupon a human driver will hop in the cab for the "last mile" delivery in an urban environment.
That would seem intuitive at first glance. Driving massive distances over the desert in the US or Australia, as an example.
However I think they work best with external stimuli .... road markings, signs etc to react to and learn from. So featureless environments would actually be more dangerous to them.
I drove along a road in Austraila a few years ago that had a sign something like : "Bend in ten miles." Then: "Bend in five miles", and every mile down to one, and many other warning signs in that last mile.
Eventually we reached the bend, below which was the Murray River. Apparently many drivers went straight down.
There's also a main road in Lincolnshire where an ancient long straight is cut by an airfield (?Scampton?); the road now goes around the outside. A friend told me there used to be a fair few crashes there as well.
Yep it is Scampton just north of Lincoln. It is the old Roman Road - the A15 - that runs up to the Humber and it really is that straight. There is one roundabout at Caneby Corner further north which is also a bad crash site.
fewer of the youngest millennials, those aged 18 to 25, support egalitarian family arrangements than did the same age group 20 years earlier.
This sort of thing seems to support the theory SeanT was proposing yesterday that the very young seem to more rightwing (for want of a better term, I would class it more as being more extreme, in different directions than those just above them age wise) than previously.
Yes but they still support public services etc and 60 years ago even amongst the young support for abortion and legalised homosexuality and career mothers was a niche view, amongst the young it is now opposition to that which is the niche view
I was thinking in terms of economics over here - when I said more extreme in different directions it was because it seems to me young people are more harsh on economic matters, but far more liberal on social matters, so it doesn't fit the right-left consensus exactly.
On the whole but the young still support the NHS and polling tends to show they oppose legalisation of drugs so they are not libertarians by any means
Perhaps, though when you say 'oppose legalisation of drugs' what does that mean exactly? Oppose the legalisation of all drugs, or support some legalisation (eg marijauna but not cocaine)? What level of support for the NHS are we talking about, as support for the NHS to some degree is not seemingly a liberal/conservative position.
Surprisingly polls show young people even oppose legalisation of marijuana and libertarian rightwingers would rather the NHS were replaced by an insurance based healthcare system
Looks like Theresa May's Brexit is between a rock and a hard place right now !
Her plan is to be Mrs No for two years until the EU falls at her feet with a comprehensive trade agreement, the SNP give up in awed admiration, and the people reward her with a huge majority.
Can't we just sell Gibraltar to the Spanish for £50bn (we have to offer to sell to them first). Keep £40bn for ourselves to offset Brexit and chuck the 32000 Gibraltarians £300K each. I'm sure the EU commission would be happy to give Spain the 50bn they need.
It's interesting to find out what price you put on my life and freedom. Thanks. Do I get a say in the matter?
Hyperbole much? It's not much different to what would happen if you lived on the HS2 line - in fact it's better because you wouldn't even have to move.
Yeah, because everyone living next door to HS2 will get a replacement King, currency, language and national anthem for Christmas.
Do try to remember that William doesn't like countries. He sees them as a hotbed of democracy, freedom of thought and people actually having some say over their lives. All the things the right thinking elitist should hate with a passion.
Yes Richard, you are right .... I bit and I should have known better.
To be honest, even though this whole conversation is about my home town I'm more interested in the driverless car thread. I'm learning things on that arc.
Looks like Theresa May's Brexit is between a rock and a hard place right now !
Her plan is to be Mrs No for two years until the EU falls at her feet with a comprehensive trade agreement, the SNP give up in awed admiration, and the people reward her with a huge majority.
Can't we just sell Gibraltar to the Spanish for £50bn (we have to offer to sell to them first). Keep £40bn for ourselves to offset Brexit and chuck the 32000 Gibraltarians £300K each. I'm sure the EU commission would be happy to give Spain the 50bn they need.
It's interesting to find out what price you put on my life and freedom. Thanks. Do I get a say in the matter?
Hyperbole much? It's not much different to what would happen if you lived on the HS2 line - in fact it's better because you wouldn't even have to move.
Yeah, because everyone living next door to HS2 will get a replacement King, currency, language and national anthem for Christmas.
Do try to remember that William doesn't like countries. He sees them as a hotbed of democracy, freedom of thought and people actually having some say over their lives. All the things the right thinking elitist should hate with a passion.
Yes Richard, you are right .... I bit and I should have known better.
To be honest, even though this whole conversation is about my home town I'm more interested in the driverless car thread. I'm learning things on that arc.
WTF is going on in French betting? Not only is Macron lengthening, but it's Fillon who is benefiting. This despite polls remaining stable for Fillon and stable or strengthening for Macron. And, of course, time passing which is good for the front-runner.
No idea, I've just matched another £50 at 5.7 though. Fillon now my worst result.
I think Fillon does well with the over 60s, so perhaps some punters are clocking that.
Looks like Theresa May's Brexit is between a rock and a hard place right now !
Her plan is to be Mrs No for two years until the EU falls at her feet with a comprehensive trade agreement, the SNP give up in awed admiration, and the people reward her with a huge majority.
Can't we just sell Gibraltar to the Spanish for £50bn (we have to offer to sell to them first). Keep £40bn for ourselves to offset Brexit and chuck the 32000 Gibraltarians £300K each. I'm sure the EU commission would be happy to give Spain the 50bn they need.
It's interesting to find out what price you put on my life and freedom. Thanks. Do I get a say in the matter?
Hyperbole much? It's not much different to what would happen if you lived on the HS2 line - in fact it's better because you wouldn't even have to move.
Yeah, because everyone living next door to HS2 will get a replacement King, currency, language and national anthem for Christmas.
Gibraltar shouldn't be a bargaining chip, and certainly not the people of Gibraltar. Reluctantly I'm beginning to think that my genius idea of selling the Scots might actually be against my deeper principals too. That's a tricky question though
Gibraltar's status shouldn't be, neither should mutual security or people with existing residence in the EU/UK but it appears they are all in the pot so to speak.
Yes, but they're not quite the same. If a French citizen becomes British then it is the same. (I wouldn't care to debate the detail until I've thought further though)
Looks like Theresa May's Brexit is between a rock and a hard place right now !
Her plan is to be Mrs No for two years until the EU falls at her feet with a comprehensive trade agreement, the SNP give up in awed admiration, and the people reward her with a huge majority.
Can't we just sell Gibraltar to the Spanish for £50bn (we have to offer to sell to them first). Keep £40bn for ourselves to offset Brexit and chuck the 32000 Gibraltarians £300K each. I'm sure the EU commission would be happy to give Spain the 50bn they need.
It's interesting to find out what price you put on my life and freedom. Thanks. Do I get a say in the matter?
Hyperbole much? It's not much different to what would happen if you lived on the HS2 line - in fact it's better because you wouldn't even have to move.
Yeah, because everyone living next door to HS2 will get a replacement King, currency, language and national anthem for Christmas.
The Eurocrats have got a Presidents(s), the Euro, a (ridiculous) flag, and Ode to Joy.
But, are they missing a trick by not going for a single European language?
Looks like Theresa May's Brexit is between a rock and a hard place right now !
Her plan is to be Mrs No for two years until the EU falls at her feet with a comprehensive trade agreement, the SNP give up in awed admiration, and the people reward her with a huge majority.
Can't we just sell Gibraltar to the Spanish for £50bn (we have to offer to sell to them first). Keep £40bn for ourselves to offset Brexit and chuck the 32000 Gibraltarians £300K each. I'm sure the EU commission would be happy to give Spain the 50bn they need.
It's interesting to find out what price you put on my life and freedom. Thanks. Do I get a say in the matter?
Hyperbole much? It's not much different to what would happen if you lived on the HS2 line - in fact it's better because you wouldn't even have to move.
Yeah, because everyone living next door to HS2 will get a replacement King, currency, language and national anthem for Christmas.
Gibraltar shouldn't be a bargaining chip, and certainly not the people of Gibraltar. Reluctantly I'm beginning to think that my genius idea of selling the Scots might actually be against my deeper principals too. That's a tricky question though
Looks like Theresa May's Brexit is between a rock and a hard place right now !
Her plan is to be Mrs No for two years until the EU falls at her feet with a comprehensive trade agreement, the SNP give up in awed admiration, and the people reward her with a huge majority.
Can't we just sell Gibraltar to the Spanish for £50bn (we have to offer to sell to them first). Keep £40bn for ourselves to offset Brexit and chuck the 32000 Gibraltarians £300K each. I'm sure the EU commission would be happy to give Spain the 50bn they need.
It's interesting to find out what price you put on my life and freedom. Thanks. Do I get a say in the matter?
Hyperbole much? It's not much different to what would happen if you lived on the HS2 line - in fact it's better because you wouldn't even have to move.
Yeah, because everyone living next door to HS2 will get a replacement King, currency, language and national anthem for Christmas.
The Eurocrats have got a Presidents(s), the Euro, a (ridiculous) flag, and Ode to Joy.
But, are they missing a trick by not going for a single European language?
Looks like Theresa May's Brexit is between a rock and a hard place right now !
Her plan is to be Mrs No for two years until the EU falls at her feet with a comprehensive trade agreement, the SNP give up in awed admiration, and the people reward her with a huge majority.
Can't we just sell Gibraltar to the Spanish for £50bn (we have to offer to sell to them first). Keep £40bn for ourselves to offset Brexit and chuck the 32000 Gibraltarians £300K each. I'm sure the EU commission would be happy to give Spain the 50bn they need.
It's interesting to find out what price you put on my life and freedom. Thanks. Do I get a say in the matter?
Hyperbole much? It's not much different to what would happen if you lived on the HS2 line - in fact it's better because you wouldn't even have to move.
Yeah, because everyone living next door to HS2 will get a replacement King, currency, language and national anthem for Christmas.
Gibraltar shouldn't be a bargaining chip, and certainly not the people of Gibraltar. Reluctantly I'm beginning to think that my genius idea of selling the Scots might actually be against my deeper principals too. That's a tricky question though
fewer of the youngest millennials, those aged 18 to 25, support egalitarian family arrangements than did the same age group 20 years earlier.
This sort of thing seems to support the theory SeanT was proposing yesterday that the very young seem to more rightwing (for want of a better term, I would class it more as being more extreme, in different directions than those just above them age wise) than previously.
Yes but they still support public services etc and 60 years ago even amongst the young support for abortion and legalised homosexuality and career mothers was a niche view, amongst the young it is now opposition to that which is the niche view
I was thinking in terms of economics over here - when I said more extreme in different directions it was because it seems to me young people are more harsh on economic matters, but far more liberal on social matters, so it doesn't fit the right-left consensus exactly.
On the whole but the young still support the NHS and polling tends to show they oppose legalisation of drugs so they are not libertarians by any means
Perhaps, though when you say 'oppose legalisation of drugs' what does that mean exactly? Oppose the legalisation of all drugs, or support some legalisation (eg marijauna but not cocaine)? What level of support for the NHS are we talking about, as support for the NHS to some degree is not seemingly a liberal/conservative position.
Surprisingly polls show young people even oppose legalisation of marijuana and libertarian rightwingers would rather the NHS were replaced by an insurance based healthcare system
Unfortunately you fall into exactly the same trap as many on here by thinking that just because Libertarians advocate some element of insurance in the health system they want a US system. The two are not the same at all. Most European countries have an insurance based health system but it remains free at the point of use. And sad to say the health systems of most European countries - the Western ones at least - are considerably better than the NHS at important things like keeping people alive and making them better.
Looks like Theresa May's Brexit is between a rock and a hard place right now !
Her plan is to be Mrs No for two years until the EU falls at her feet with a comprehensive trade agreement, the SNP give up in awed admiration, and the people reward her with a huge majority.
Can't we just sell Gibraltar to the Spanish for £50bn (we have to offer to sell to them first). Keep £40bn for ourselves to offset Brexit and chuck the 32000 Gibraltarians £300K each. I'm sure the EU commission would be happy to give Spain the 50bn they need.
It's interesting to find out what price you put on my life and freedom. Thanks. Do I get a say in the matter?
Hyperbole much? It's not much different to what would happen if you lived on the HS2 line - in fact it's better because you wouldn't even have to move.
Yeah, because everyone living next door to HS2 will get a replacement King, currency, language and national anthem for Christmas.
The Eurocrats have got a Presidents(s), the Euro, a (ridiculous) flag, and Ode to Joy.
But, are they missing a trick by not going for a single European language?
Looks like Theresa May's Brexit is between a rock and a hard place right now !
Her plan is to be Mrs No for two years until the EU falls at her feet with a comprehensive trade agreement, the SNP give up in awed admiration, and the people reward her with a huge majority.
Can't we just sell Gibraltar to the Spanish for £50bn (we have to offer to sell to them first). Keep £40bn for ourselves to offset Brexit and chuck the 32000 Gibraltarians £300K each. I'm sure the EU commission would be happy to give Spain the 50bn they need.
It's interesting to find out what price you put on my life and freedom. Thanks. Do I get a say in the matter?
Hyperbole much? It's not much different to what would happen if you lived on the HS2 line - in fact it's better because you wouldn't even have to move.
Yeah, because everyone living next door to HS2 will get a replacement King, currency, language and national anthem for Christmas.
The Eurocrats have got a Presidents(s), the Euro, a (ridiculous) flag, and Ode to Joy.
But, are they missing a trick by not going for a single European language?
What happened to Esperanto?
Isn't it the case that once we leave English won't be an official language of the EU?
There will be a backlash when a driverless truck kills someone, but I very much doubt that will stop the technology, not least because human-driven trucks kill people every day. Driverless trucks will almost certainly be safer, overall.
Moreover, we've had driverless trains for years, I presume they must have squashed people in their time, but they are still the coming thing. Paris is about to build an entire new rail system with no drivers.
I think the comparison with driverless trains is poor. Their direction is fixed by the tracks and they don't operate in the same environment as pedestrians and other drivers.
I am sure driverless trucks will come. But it won't be soon and it will be preceded by a very extended period of time where they have human passengers as backups in case something goes wrong. We are already seeing it with the tests of automatic cars in the US.
The Driverless truck will probably operate on an outskirts to outskirts model whereupon a human driver will hop in the cab for the "last mile" delivery in an urban environment.
Such a system might not gain many savings. You still need a cab with controls a human can use; you still need drivers/operators available to drive them for much of the time. And they will have to divert to a hub to get the drives on board, rather than directly to the destination.
Google/Alphabet/Waymo have taken a very different route to Tesla et al. Google decided early on that it was pointless having anything less than full automation, as it was impossible for a human to stay alert for the one time in every half hour he might be needed. Therefore they're trying to go big-bang towards full automation, and plan for their cars to have no human controls such as steering wheel (though I bet they have emergency controls through a console / smarthphone).
That's a much harder task.
I approve of the Waymo approach - all or nothing. But I'm pretty sure we'll see hybrid driveless truck's first before full end-to-end autonomous trucking is deployed.
Looks like Theresa May's Brexit is between a rock and a hard place right now !
Her plan is to be Mrs No for two years until the EU falls at her feet with a comprehensive trade agreement, the SNP give up in awed admiration, and the people reward her with a huge majority.
Can't we just sell Gibraltar to the Spanish for £50bn (we have to offer to sell to them first). Keep £40bn for ourselves to offset Brexit and chuck the 32000 Gibraltarians £300K each. I'm sure the EU commission would be happy to give Spain the 50bn they need.
It's interesting to find out what price you put on my life and freedom. Thanks. Do I get a say in the matter?
Hyperbole much? It's not much different to what would happen if you lived on the HS2 line - in fact it's better because you wouldn't even have to move.
Yeah, because everyone living next door to HS2 will get a replacement King, currency, language and national anthem for Christmas.
The Eurocrats have got a Presidents(s), the Euro, a (ridiculous) flag, and Ode to Joy.
But, are they missing a trick by not going for a single European language?
What happened to Esperanto?
Isn't it the case that once we leave English won't be an official language of the EU?
fewer of the youngest millennials, those aged 18 to 25, support egalitarian family arrangements than did the same age group 20 years earlier.
This sort of thing seems to support the theory SeanT was proposing yesterday that the very young seem to more rightwing (for want of a better term, I would class it more as being more extreme, in different directions than those just above them age wise) than previously.
Yes but they still support public services etc and 60 years ago even amongst the young support for abortion and legalised homosexuality and career mothers was a niche view, amongst the young it is now opposition to that which is the niche view
I was thinking in terms of economics over here - when I said more extreme in different directions it was because it seems to me young people are more harsh on economic matters, but far more liberal on social matters, so it doesn't fit the right-left consensus exactly.
On the whole but the young still support the NHS and polling tends to show they oppose legalisation of drugs so they are not libertarians by any means
Perhaps, though when you say 'oppose legalisation of drugs' what does that mean exactly? Oppose the legalisation of all drugs, or support some legalisation (eg marijauna but not cocaine)? What level of support for the NHS are we talking about, as support for the NHS to some degree is not seemingly a liberal/conservative position.
Surprisingly polls show young people even oppose legalisation of marijuana and libertarian rightwingers would rather the NHS were replaced by an insurance based healthcare system
Unfortunately you fall into exactly the same trap as many on here by thinking that just because Libertarians advocate some element of insurance in the health system they want a US system. The two are not the same at all. Most European countries have an insurance based health system but it remains free at the point of use. And sad to say the health systems of most European countries - the Western ones at least - are considerably better than the NHS at important things like keeping people alive and making them better.
Looks like Theresa May's Brexit is between a rock and a hard place right now !
Her plan is to be Mrs No for two years until the EU falls at her feet with a comprehensive trade agreement, the SNP give up in awed admiration, and the people reward her with a huge majority.
Can't we just sell Gibraltar to the Spanish for £50bn (we have to offer to sell to them first). Keep £40bn for ourselves to offset Brexit and chuck the 32000 Gibraltarians £300K each. I'm sure the EU commission would be happy to give Spain the 50bn they need.
It's interesting to find out what price you put on my life and freedom. Thanks. Do I get a say in the matter?
Hyperbole much? It's not much different to what would happen if you lived on the HS2 line - in fact it's better because you wouldn't even have to move.
Yeah, because everyone living next door to HS2 will get a replacement King, currency, language and national anthem for Christmas.
Gibraltar shouldn't be a bargaining chip, and certainly not the people of Gibraltar. Reluctantly I'm beginning to think that my genius idea of selling the Scots might actually be against my deeper principals too. That's a tricky question though
Personally I think a continental system of healthcare would be no bad thing if we were starting from scratch. But we aren't, and the last thing the NHS needs is more poorly implemented reorganisation.
Looks like Theresa May's Brexit is between a rock and a hard place right now !
Her plan is to be Mrs No for two years until the EU falls at her feet with a comprehensive trade agreement, the SNP give up in awed admiration, and the people reward her with a huge majority.
Can't we just sell Gibraltar to the Spanish for £50bn (we have to offer to sell to them first). Keep £40bn for ourselves to offset Brexit and chuck the 32000 Gibraltarians £300K each. I'm sure the EU commission would be happy to give Spain the 50bn they need.
It's interesting to find out what price you put on my life and freedom. Thanks. Do I get a say in the matter?
Hyperbole much? It's not much different to what would happen if you lived on the HS2 line - in fact it's better because you wouldn't even have to move.
Yeah, because everyone living next door to HS2 will get a replacement King, currency, language and national anthem for Christmas.
The Eurocrats have got a Presidents(s), the Euro, a (ridiculous) flag, and Ode to Joy.
But, are they missing a trick by not going for a single European language?
What happened to Esperanto?
Isn't it the case that once we leave English won't be an official language of the EU?
Malta might object to that.
Then either Malta or Ireland will have to declare English as their official language.
Personally I think a continental system of healthcare would be no bad thing if we were starting from scratch. But we aren't, and the last thing the NHS needs is more poorly implemented reorganisation.
Looks like Theresa May's Brexit is between a rock and a hard place right now !
Her plan is to be Mrs No for two years until the EU falls at her feet with a comprehensive trade agreement, the SNP give up in awed admiration, and the people reward her with a huge majority.
Can't we just sell Gibraltar to the Spanish for £50bn (we have to offer to sell to them first). Keep £40bn for ourselves to offset Brexit and chuck the 32000 Gibraltarians £300K each. I'm sure the EU commission would be happy to give Spain the 50bn they need.
It's interesting to find out what price you put on my life and freedom. Thanks. Do I get a say in the matter?
Hyperbole much? It's not much different to what would happen if you lived on the HS2 line - in fact it's better because you wouldn't even have to move.
Yeah, because everyone living next door to HS2 will get a replacement King, currency, language and national anthem for Christmas.
The Eurocrats have got a Presidents(s), the Euro, a (ridiculous) flag, and Ode to Joy.
But, are they missing a trick by not going for a single European language?
What happened to Esperanto?
Isn't it the case that once we leave English won't be an official language of the EU?
Doubt it. Ireland and Malta use it, and most of the rest use it as their main secondary.
The EU will make itself even more irrelevant without it.
Looks like Theresa May's Brexit is between a rock and a hard place right now !
Her plan is to be Mrs No for two years until the EU falls at her feet with a comprehensive trade agreement, the SNP give up in awed admiration, and the people reward her with a huge majority.
Can't we just sell Gibraltar to the Spanish for £50bn (we have to offer to sell to them first). Keep £40bn for ourselves to offset Brexit and chuck the 32000 Gibraltarians £300K each. I'm sure the EU commission would be happy to give Spain the 50bn they need.
It's interesting to find out what price you put on my life and freedom. Thanks. Do I get a say in the matter?
Hyperbole much? It's not much different to what would happen if you lived on the HS2 line - in fact it's better because you wouldn't even have to move.
Yeah, because everyone living next door to HS2 will get a replacement King, currency, language and national anthem for Christmas.
The Eurocrats have got a Presidents(s), the Euro, a (ridiculous) flag, and Ode to Joy.
But, are they missing a trick by not going for a single European language?
Looks like Theresa May's Brexit is between a rock and a hard place right now !
Her plan is to be Mrs No for two years until the EU falls at her feet with a comprehensive trade agreement, the SNP give up in awed admiration, and the people reward her with a huge majority.
Can't we just sell Gibraltar to the Spanish for £50bn (we have to offer to sell to them first). Keep £40bn for ourselves to offset Brexit and chuck the 32000 Gibraltarians £300K each. I'm sure the EU commission would be happy to give Spain the 50bn they need.
It's interesting to find out what price you put on my life and freedom. Thanks. Do I get a say in the matter?
Hyperbole much? It's not much different to what would happen if you lived on the HS2 line - in fact it's better because you wouldn't even have to move.
Yeah, because everyone living next door to HS2 will get a replacement King, currency, language and national anthem for Christmas.
The Eurocrats have got a Presidents(s), the Euro, a (ridiculous) flag, and Ode to Joy.
But, are they missing a trick by not going for a single European language?
What happened to Esperanto?
Isn't it the case that once we leave English won't be an official language of the EU?
Doubt it. Ireland and Malta use it, and most of the rest use it as their main secondary.
The EU will make itself even more irrelevant without it.
That would require the EU to apply common sense rather than act like a bunch of arrogant unaccountable jobsworths. So let's see.
Looks like Theresa May's Brexit is between a rock and a hard place right now !
Her plan is to be Mrs No for two years until the EU falls at her feet with a comprehensive trade agreement, the SNP give up in awed admiration, and the people reward her with a huge majority.
Can't we just sell Gibraltar to the Spanish for £50bn (we have to offer to sell to them first). Keep £40bn for ourselves to offset Brexit and chuck the 32000 Gibraltarians £300K each. I'm sure the EU commission would be happy to give Spain the 50bn they need.
It's interesting to find out what price you put on my life and freedom. Thanks. Do I get a say in the matter?
Hyperbole much? It's not much different to what would happen if you lived on the HS2 line - in fact it's better because you wouldn't even have to move.
Yeah, because everyone living next door to HS2 will get a replacement King, currency, language and national anthem for Christmas.
The Eurocrats have got a Presidents(s), the Euro, a (ridiculous) flag, and Ode to Joy.
But, are they missing a trick by not going for a single European language?
What happened to Esperanto?
Isn't it the case that once we leave English won't be an official language of the EU?
Malta might object to that.
Then either Malta or Ireland will have to declare English as their official language.
I thought it was a joint one in Malta, however you're quite right it seems
Looks like Theresa May's Brexit is between a rock and a hard place right now !
Her plan is to be Mrs No for two years until the EU falls at her feet with a comprehensive trade agreement, the SNP give up in awed admiration, and the people reward her with a huge majority.
Can't we just sell Gibraltar to the Spanish for £50bn (we have to offer to sell to them first). Keep £40bn for ourselves to offset Brexit and chuck the 32000 Gibraltarians £300K each. I'm sure the EU commission would be happy to give Spain the 50bn they need.
It's interesting to find out what price you put on my life and freedom. Thanks. Do I get a say in the matter?
Hyperbole much? It's not much different to what would happen if you lived on the HS2 line - in fact it's better because you wouldn't even have to move.
Yeah, because everyone living next door to HS2 will get a replacement King, currency, language and national anthem for Christmas.
The Eurocrats have got a Presidents(s), the Euro, a (ridiculous) flag, and Ode to Joy.
But, are they missing a trick by not going for a single European language?
What happened to Esperanto?
Isn't it the case that once we leave English won't be an official language of the EU?
Malta might object to that.
Isn't their national language technically Maltese?
Which makes me wonder, are people who speak that language Maltesers?
Looks like Theresa May's Brexit is between a rock and a hard place right now !
Her plan is to be Mrs No for two years until the EU falls at her feet with a comprehensive trade agreement, the SNP give up in awed admiration, and the people reward her with a huge majority.
Can't we just sell Gibraltar to the Spanish for £50bn (we have to offer to sell to them first). Keep £40bn for ourselves to offset Brexit and chuck the 32000 Gibraltarians £300K each. I'm sure the EU commission would be happy to give Spain the 50bn they need.
It's interesting to find out what price you put on my life and freedom. Thanks. Do I get a say in the matter?
Hyperbole much? It's not much different to what would happen if you lived on the HS2 line - in fact it's better because you wouldn't even have to move.
Yeah, because everyone living next door to HS2 will get a replacement King, currency, language and national anthem for Christmas.
The Eurocrats have got a Presidents(s), the Euro, a (ridiculous) flag, and Ode to Joy.
But, are they missing a trick by not going for a single European language?
What happened to Esperanto?
Isn't it the case that once we leave English won't be an official language of the EU?
Malta might object to that.
Isn't their national language technically Maltese?
Which makes me wonder, are people who speak that language Maltesers?
Looks like Theresa May's Brexit is between a rock and a hard place right now !
Her plan is to be Mrs No for two years until the EU falls at her feet with a comprehensive trade agreement, the SNP give up in awed admiration, and the people reward her with a huge majority.
Can't we just sell Gibraltar to the Spanish for £50bn (we have to offer to sell to them first). Keep £40bn for ourselves to offset Brexit and chuck the 32000 Gibraltarians £300K each. I'm sure the EU commission would be happy to give Spain the 50bn they need.
It's interesting to find out what price you put on my life and freedom. Thanks. Do I get a say in the matter?
Hyperbole much? It's not much different to what would happen if you lived on the HS2 line - in fact it's better because you wouldn't even have to move.
Yeah, because everyone living next door to HS2 will get a replacement King, currency, language and national anthem for Christmas.
Gobsmacked when I read that it was supposedly the same as a HS2 compulsory purchase, then I saw who posted it...
Looks like Theresa May's Brexit is between a rock and a hard place right now !
Her plan is to be Mrs No for two years until the EU falls at her feet with a comprehensive trade agreement, the SNP give up in awed admiration, and the people reward her with a huge majority.
Can't we just sell Gibraltar to the Spanish for £50bn (we have to offer to sell to them first). Keep £40bn for ourselves to offset Brexit and chuck the 32000 Gibraltarians £300K each. I'm sure the EU commission would be happy to give Spain the 50bn they need.
It's interesting to find out what price you put on my life and freedom. Thanks. Do I get a say in the matter?
Hyperbole much? It's not much different to what would happen if you lived on the HS2 line - in fact it's better because you wouldn't even have to move.
Yeah, because everyone living next door to HS2 will get a replacement King, currency, language and national anthem for Christmas.
The Eurocrats have got a Presidents(s), the Euro, a (ridiculous) flag, and Ode to Joy.
But, are they missing a trick by not going for a single European language?
What happened to Esperanto?
Isn't it the case that once we leave English won't be an official language of the EU?
Malta might object to that.
Isn't their national language technically Maltese?
Which makes me wonder, are people who speak that language Maltesers?
Official languages Maltese and English
Official languages in Ireland: Irish and ENGLISH
Official in the country yes, but have they declared English to the EU?
Looks like Theresa May's Brexit is between a rock and a hard place right now !
Her plan is to be Mrs No for two years until the EU falls at her feet with a comprehensive trade agreement, the SNP give up in awed admiration, and the people reward her with a huge majority.
Can't we just sell Gibraltar to the Spanish for £50bn (we have to offer to sell to them first). Keep £40bn for ourselves to offset Brexit and chuck the 32000 Gibraltarians £300K each. I'm sure the EU commission would be happy to give Spain the 50bn they need.
It's interesting to find out what price you put on my life and freedom. Thanks. Do I get a say in the matter?
Hyperbole much? It's not much different to what would happen if you lived on the HS2 line - in fact it's better because you wouldn't even have to move.
Yeah, because everyone living next door to HS2 will get a replacement King, currency, language and national anthem for Christmas.
The Eurocrats have got a Presidents(s), the Euro, a (ridiculous) flag, and Ode to Joy.
But, are they missing a trick by not going for a single European language?
What happened to Esperanto?
Isn't it the case that once we leave English won't be an official language of the EU?
Malta might object to that.
Isn't their national language technically Maltese?
Which makes me wonder, are people who speak that language Maltesers?
Official languages Maltese and English
Official languages in Ireland: Irish and ENGLISH
Ok so I was right below after all.
I believe that Malta can entirely happily get by in Maltese, but that it's not true to say that Ireland can happily work in Irish.
Anyway English will have to be maintained as an official EU language.
Looks like Theresa May's Brexit is between a rock and a hard place right now !
Her plan is to be Mrs No for two years until the EU falls at her feet with a comprehensive trade agreement, the SNP give up in awed admiration, and the people reward her with a huge majority.
Can't we just sell Gibraltar to the Spanish for £50bn (we have to offer to sell to them first). Keep £40bn for ourselves to offset Brexit and chuck the 32000 Gibraltarians £300K each. I'm sure the EU commission would be happy to give Spain the 50bn they need.
It's interesting to find out what price you put on my life and freedom. Thanks. Do I get a say in the matter?
Hyperbole much? It's not much different to what would happen if you lived on the HS2 line - in fact it's better because you wouldn't even have to move.
Yeah, because everyone living next door to HS2 will get a replacement King, currency, language and national anthem for Christmas.
The Eurocrats have got a Presidents(s), the Euro, a (ridiculous) flag, and Ode to Joy.
But, are they missing a trick by not going for a single European language?
What happened to Esperanto?
Isn't it the case that once we leave English won't be an official language of the EU?
Malta might object to that.
Isn't their national language technically Maltese?
Which makes me wonder, are people who speak that language Maltesers?
Official languages Maltese and English
Official languages in Ireland: Irish and ENGLISH
Official in the country yes, but have they declared English to the EU?
No need to as the UK was already a member when they joined so they only needed to ask for their own language to be added to the existing list. When we leave if anyone proposes removing English they could object and request it to be added on their behalf.
I taught myself and sent off for a book. The British Esperanto Society was out of the book in question so they sent me a copy of Esperanto por Infanoj which I still have and a complete two-way dictionary.
Somebody has to do it since May was found sleeping. She completely forgot Gibraltar.
She probably thought the EU wouldn't stoop so low as to play games with the citizens of Gibraltar.
No point covering up incompetence.
Surprised at the hypocrisy...for us to play games with EU citizens in the UK is utterly deplorable, but for the EU to do the same with those of Gibraltar is somehow not worth a single complaint.
Surprised at the hypocrisy...for us to play games with EU citizens in the UK is utterly deplorable, but for the EU to do the same with those of Gibraltar is somehow not worth a single complaint.
It's quite clear whose side Labour supporters are on.
fewer of the youngest millennials, those aged 18 to 25, support egalitarian family arrangements than did the same age group 20 years earlier.
This sort of thing seems to support the theory SeanT was proposing yesterday that the very young seem to more rightwing (for want of a better term, I would class it more as being more extreme, in different directions than those just above them age wise) than previously.
Yes but they still support public services etc and 60 years ago even amongst the young support for abortion and legalised homosexuality and career mothers was a niche view, amongst the young it is now opposition to that which is the niche view
I was thinking in terms of economics over here - when I said more extreme in different directions it was because it seems to me young people are more harsh on economic matters, but far more liberal on social matters, so it doesn't fit the right-left consensus exactly.
On the whole but the young still support the NHS and polling tends to show they oppose legalisation of drugs so they are not libertarians by any means
Perhaps, though when you say 'oppose legalisation of drugs' what does that mean exactly? Oppose the legalisation of all drugs, or support some legalisation (eg marijauna but not cocaine)? What level of support for the NHS are we talking about, as support for the NHS to some degree is not seemingly a liberal/conservative position.
Surprisingly polls show young people even oppose legalisation of marijuana and libertarian rightwingers would rather the NHS were replaced by an insurance based healthcare system
Unfortunately you fall into exactly the same trap as many on here by thinking that just because Libertarians advocate some element of insurance in the health system they want a US system. The two are not the same at all. Most European countries have an insurance based health system but it remains free at the point of use. And sad to say the health systems of most European countries - the Western ones at least - are considerably better than the NHS at important things like keeping people alive and making them better.
They also spend more than the UK on healthcare.
True but Blair and Brown tried throwing more money at the NHS and it made bugger all difference.
I taught myself and sent off for a book. The British Esperanto Society was out of the book in question so they sent me a copy of Esperanto por Infanoj which I still have and a complete two-way dictionary.
Here you go....
I presume the second one is full of useful phrases like, "There will be no whitewash at the White House."
Surprised at the hypocrisy...for us to play games with EU citizens in the UK is utterly deplorable, but for the EU to do the same with those of Gibraltar is somehow not worth a single complaint.
It's quite clear whose side Labour supporters are on.
Somebody has to do it since May was found sleeping. She completely forgot Gibraltar.
She probably thought the EU wouldn't stoop so low as to play games with the citizens of Gibraltar.
No point covering up incompetence.
Surprised at the hypocrisy...for us to play games with EU citizens in the UK is utterly deplorable, but for the EU to do the same with those of Gibraltar is somehow not worth a single complaint.
Is Spain threatening to ethnically cleanse the area?
The citizens voted overwhelmingly to remain in the EU after all so it can't be such a tragedy for the people if sovereignty is transferred. Those who don't like the idea but were keen on Brexit could even consider it 'taking one for the team' in order to help secure a good deal for the UK.
I taught myself and sent off for a book. The British Esperanto Society was out of the book in question so they sent me a copy of Esperanto por Infanoj which I still have and a complete two-way dictionary.
Here you go....
I presume the second one is full of useful phrases like, "There will be no whitewash at the White House."
Err... hang on..... white = blanko wash=lava (is it a future tense verb so that would be lavos) house=domo so...
Somebody has to do it since May was found sleeping. She completely forgot Gibraltar.
She probably thought the EU wouldn't stoop so low as to play games with the citizens of Gibraltar.
Having put the future security of both EU citizens and British citizens on the table, Britain is in no position to accuse the EU of stooping low.
The EU's position is in any case logical. After Brexit, the dispute between Britain and Spain over Gibraltar will involve only one EU country. It would be quite wrong for the rest of the EU to start from a position of forcing its member to make concessions on such a dispute against its will. I thought Leavers liked the idea of bilateral negotiations?
Somebody has to do it since May was found sleeping. She completely forgot Gibraltar.
She probably thought the EU wouldn't stoop so low as to play games with the citizens of Gibraltar.
No point covering up incompetence.
Surprised at the hypocrisy...for us to play games with EU citizens in the UK is utterly deplorable, but for the EU to do the same with those of Gibraltar is somehow not worth a single complaint.
Is Spain threatening to ethnically cleanse the area?
The citizens voted overwhelmingly to remain in the EU after all so it can't be such a tragedy for the people if sovereignty is transferred. Those who don't like the idea but were keen on Brexit could even consider it 'taking one for the team' in order to help secure a good deal for the UK.
Ethnically cleanse? What are you bleating on about?
If you asked the Gibraltarians if they wanted to join Spain, I'm sure you'd get a result similar to the last referendum. The recent news will no doubt harden their resolve.
Somebody has to do it since May was found sleeping. She completely forgot Gibraltar.
She probably thought the EU wouldn't stoop so low as to play games with the citizens of Gibraltar.
Having put the future security of both EU citizens and British citizens on the table, Britain is in no position to accuse the EU of stooping low.
The EU's position is in any case logical. After Brexit, the dispute between Britain and Spain over Gibraltar will involve only one EU country. It would be quite wrong for the rest of the EU to start from a position of forcing its member to make concessions on such a dispute against its will. I thought Leavers liked the idea of bilateral negotiations?
Except Spain has zero legal basis for the claim. Or is that not an issue because they are now on the side of the EU?
And really, if they are comparable, why the lack outrage from you on this issue? You were quite vocal on the security issue.
Somebody has to do it since May was found sleeping. She completely forgot Gibraltar.
She probably thought the EU wouldn't stoop so low as to play games with the citizens of Gibraltar.
No point covering up incompetence.
Surprised at the hypocrisy...for us to play games with EU citizens in the UK is utterly deplorable, but for the EU to do the same with those of Gibraltar is somehow not worth a single complaint.
Is Spain threatening to ethnically cleanse the area?
The citizens voted overwhelmingly to remain in the EU after all so it can't be such a tragedy for the people if sovereignty is transferred. Those who don't like the idea but were keen on Brexit could even consider it 'taking one for the team' in order to help secure a good deal for the UK.
No doubt you'd favour ethnic cleansing of British nationals.
Somebody has to do it since May was found sleeping. She completely forgot Gibraltar.
She probably thought the EU wouldn't stoop so low as to play games with the citizens of Gibraltar.
Having put the future security of both EU citizens and British citizens on the table, Britain is in no position to accuse the EU of stooping low.
The EU's position is in any case logical. After Brexit, the dispute between Britain and Spain over Gibraltar will involve only one EU country. It would be quite wrong for the rest of the EU to start from a position of forcing its member to make concessions on such a dispute against its will. I thought Leavers liked the idea of bilateral negotiations?
Except Spain has zero legal basis for the claim. Or is that not an issue because they are now on the side of the EU?
Gibraltar is British when it wants to be. It is nothing more than a low tax, no duties smugglers den. Who is the MP for Gibraltar in the HoC ?
Somebody has to do it since May was found sleeping. She completely forgot Gibraltar.
She probably thought the EU wouldn't stoop so low as to play games with the citizens of Gibraltar.
Having put the future security of both EU citizens and British citizens on the table, Britain is in no position to accuse the EU of stooping low.
The EU's position is in any case logical. After Brexit, the dispute between Britain and Spain over Gibraltar will involve only one EU country. It would be quite wrong for the rest of the EU to start from a position of forcing its member to make concessions on such a dispute against its will. I thought Leavers liked the idea of bilateral negotiations?
Except Spain has zero legal basis for the claim. Or is that not an issue because they are now on the side of the EU?
And really, if they are comparable, why the lack outrage from you on this issue? You were quite vocal on the security issue.
Somebody has to do it since May was found sleeping. She completely forgot Gibraltar.
She probably thought the EU wouldn't stoop so low as to play games with the citizens of Gibraltar.
Having put the future security of both EU citizens and British citizens on the table, Britain is in no position to accuse the EU of stooping low.
The EU's position is in any case logical. After Brexit, the dispute between Britain and Spain over Gibraltar will involve only one EU country. It would be quite wrong for the rest of the EU to start from a position of forcing its member to make concessions on such a dispute against its will. I thought Leavers liked the idea of bilateral negotiations?
Except Spain has zero legal basis for the claim. Or is that not an issue because they are now on the side of the EU?
Gibraltar is British when it wants to be. It is nothing more than a low tax, no duties smugglers den. Who is the MP for Gibraltar in the HoC ?
When has Gibraltar not wanted to be British? Or are you just talking out of your arse.
Somebody has to do it since May was found sleeping. She completely forgot Gibraltar.
She probably thought the EU wouldn't stoop so low as to play games with the citizens of Gibraltar.
Having put the future security of both EU citizens and British citizens on the table, Britain is in no position to accuse the EU of stooping low.
The EU's position is in any case logical. After Brexit, the dispute between Britain and Spain over Gibraltar will involve only one EU country. It would be quite wrong for the rest of the EU to start from a position of forcing its member to make concessions on such a dispute against its will. I thought Leavers liked the idea of bilateral negotiations?
Except Spain has zero legal basis for the claim. Or is that not an issue because they are now on the side of the EU?
Gibraltar is British when it wants to be. It is nothing more than a low tax, no duties smugglers den. Who is the MP for Gibraltar in the HoC ?
Fair point, we should offer the people of Gibraltar the option of becoming part of the UK. Then we can tell the Spanish to fuck off forever.
Somebody has to do it since May was found sleeping. She completely forgot Gibraltar.
She probably thought the EU wouldn't stoop so low as to play games with the citizens of Gibraltar.
Having put the future security of both EU citizens and British citizens on the table, Britain is in no position to accuse the EU of stooping low.
The EU's position is in any case logical. After Brexit, the dispute between Britain and Spain over Gibraltar will involve only one EU country. It would be quite wrong for the rest of the EU to start from a position of forcing its member to make concessions on such a dispute against its will. I thought Leavers liked the idea of bilateral negotiations?
Except Spain has zero legal basis for the claim. Or is that not an issue because they are now on the side of the EU?
Gibraltar is British when it wants to be. It is nothing more than a low tax, no duties smugglers den. Who is the MP for Gibraltar in the HoC ?
Somebody has to do it since May was found sleeping. She completely forgot Gibraltar.
She probably thought the EU wouldn't stoop so low as to play games with the citizens of Gibraltar.
Having put the future security of both EU citizens and British citizens on the table, Britain is in no position to accuse the EU of stooping low.
The EU's position is in any case logical. After Brexit, the dispute between Britain and Spain over Gibraltar will involve only one EU country. It would be quite wrong for the rest of the EU to start from a position of forcing its member to make concessions on such a dispute against its will. I thought Leavers liked the idea of bilateral negotiations?
Except Spain has zero legal basis for the claim. Or is that not an issue because they are now on the side of the EU?
Gibraltar is British when it wants to be. It is nothing more than a low tax, no duties smugglers den. Who is the MP for Gibraltar in the HoC ?
Fair point, we should offer the people of Gibraltar the option of becoming part of the UK. Then we can tell the Spanish to fuck off forever.
They seem to be content with their current constitutional settlement. Not sure what difference having an MP would have.
Somebody has to do it since May was found sleeping. She completely forgot Gibraltar.
She probably thought the EU wouldn't stoop so low as to play games with the citizens of Gibraltar.
Having put the future security of both EU citizens and British citizens on the table, Britain is in no position to accuse the EU of stooping low.
The EU's position is in any case logical. After Brexit, the dispute between Britain and Spain over Gibraltar will involve only one EU country. It would be quite wrong for the rest of the EU to start from a position of forcing its member to make concessions on such a dispute against its will. I thought Leavers liked the idea of bilateral negotiations?
Except Spain has zero legal basis for the claim. Or is that not an issue because they are now on the side of the EU?
Well that's simply untrue. Spain maintains that Gibraltar is a colony, a view with some international support (and the fact that the Treaty of Utrecht contemplates that Britain might one day give up sovereignty points in that direction). It maintains the Gibraltarians, as descendants of settlers, do not have the right of self-determination.
Britain clearly has current sovereignty. But to say that Spain has zero legal basis for its position is wildly overstating the case.
Somebody has to do it since May was found sleeping. She completely forgot Gibraltar.
She probably thought the EU wouldn't stoop so low as to play games with the citizens of Gibraltar.
No point covering up incompetence.
Surprised at the hypocrisy...for us to play games with EU citizens in the UK is utterly deplorable, but for the EU to do the same with those of Gibraltar is somehow not worth a single complaint.
Is Spain threatening to ethnically cleanse the area?
The citizens voted overwhelmingly to remain in the EU after all so it can't be such a tragedy for the people if sovereignty is transferred. Those who don't like the idea but were keen on Brexit could even consider it 'taking one for the team' in order to help secure a good deal for the UK.
Ethnically cleanse? What are you bleating on about?
If you asked the Gibraltarians if they wanted to join Spain, I'm sure you'd get a result similar to the last referendum. The recent news will no doubt harden their resolve.
Some of the same people who think that putting Scotland's interests first would be the tail wagging the dog are quite happy to subjgate the British national interest to 30,000 people living in an enclave in the Med.
Somebody has to do it since May was found sleeping. She completely forgot Gibraltar.
She probably thought the EU wouldn't stoop so low as to play games with the citizens of Gibraltar.
Having put the future security of both EU citizens and British citizens on the table, Britain is in no position to accuse the EU of stooping low.
The EU's position is in any case logical. After Brexit, the dispute between Britain and Spain over Gibraltar will involve only one EU country. It would be quite wrong for the rest of the EU to start from a position of forcing its member to make concessions on such a dispute against its will. I thought Leavers liked the idea of bilateral negotiations?
Except Spain has zero legal basis for the claim. Or is that not an issue because they are now on the side of the EU?
Well that's simply untrue. Spain maintains that Gibraltar is a colony, a view with some international support (and the fact that the Treaty of Utrecht contemplates that Britain might one day give up sovereignty points in that direction). It maintains the Gibraltarians, as descendants of settlers, do not have the right of self-determination.
Britain clearly has current sovereignty. But to say that Spain has zero legal basis for its position is wildly overstating the case.
Colony or not, the treaty ceded the territory to Britain in perpetuity "without any exception or impediment whatsoever".
Looks like Theresa May's Brexit is between a rock and a hard place right now !
Her plan is to be Mrs No for two years until the EU falls at her feet with a comprehensive trade agreement, the SNP give up in awed admiration, and the people reward her with a huge majority.
Can't we just sell Gibraltar to the Spanish for £50bn (we have to offer to sell to them first). Keep £40bn for ourselves to offset Brexit and chuck the 32000 Gibraltarians £300K each. I'm sure the EU commission would be happy to give Spain the 50bn they need.
It's interesting to find out what price you put on my life and freedom. Thanks. Do I get a say in the matter?
Hyperbole much? It's not much different to what would happen if you lived on the HS2 line - in fact it's better because you wouldn't even have to move.
Yeah, because everyone living next door to HS2 will get a replacement King, currency, language and national anthem for Christmas.
The Eurocrats have got a Presidents(s), the Euro, a (ridiculous) flag, and Ode to Joy.
But, are they missing a trick by not going for a single European language?
What happened to Esperanto?
Isn't it the case that once we leave English won't be an official language of the EU?
Malta might object to that.
Isn't their national language technically Maltese?
Which makes me wonder, are people who speak that language Maltesers?
Official languages Maltese and English
Official languages in Ireland: Irish and ENGLISH
Ok so I was right below after all.
I believe that Malta can entirely happily get by in Maltese, but that it's not true to say that Ireland can happily work in Irish.
Anyway English will have to be maintained as an official EU language.
"The most widely spoken language in the EU is English, which is understood by 51% of all adults, while German is the most widely used mother tongue, spoken by 18%. All 24 official languages of the EU are accepted as working languages, but in practice only two – English and French – are in wide general use and of these English is the more commonly used."
Somebody has to do it since May was found sleeping. She completely forgot Gibraltar.
She probably thought the EU wouldn't stoop so low as to play games with the citizens of Gibraltar.
Having put the future security of both EU citizens and British citizens on the table, Britain is in no position to accuse the EU of stooping low.
The EU's position is in any case logical. After Brexit, the dispute between Britain and Spain over Gibraltar will involve only one EU country. It would be quite wrong for the rest of the EU to start from a position of forcing its member to make concessions on such a dispute against its will. I thought Leavers liked the idea of bilateral negotiations?
Except Spain has zero legal basis for the claim. Or is that not an issue because they are now on the side of the EU?
Gibraltar is British when it wants to be. It is nothing more than a low tax, no duties smugglers den. Who is the MP for Gibraltar in the HoC ?
When has Gibraltar not wanted to be British? Or are you just talking out of your arse.
Would Gibraltar be happy to have their affairs administered from London?
Somebody has to do it since May was found sleeping. She completely forgot Gibraltar.
She probably thought the EU wouldn't stoop so low as to play games with the citizens of Gibraltar.
Having put the future security of both EU citizens and British citizens on the table, Britain is in no position to accuse the EU of stooping low.
The EU's position is in any case logical. After Brexit, the dispute between Britain and Spain over Gibraltar will involve only one EU country. It would be quite wrong for the rest of the EU to start from a position of forcing its member to make concessions on such a dispute against its will. I thought Leavers liked the idea of bilateral negotiations?
Except Spain has zero legal basis for the claim. Or is that not an issue because they are now on the side of the EU?
Well that's simply untrue. Spain maintains that Gibraltar is a colony, a view with some international support (and the fact that the Treaty of Utrecht contemplates that Britain might one day give up sovereignty points in that direction). It maintains the Gibraltarians, as descendants of settlers, do not have the right of self-determination.
Britain clearly has current sovereignty. But to say that Spain has zero legal basis for its position is wildly overstating the case.
Colony or not, the treaty ceded the territory to Britain in perpetuity.
These unequal treaties from a colonial period are not worth the paper it is written on. I suppose to you the Independence movement in North America was an insurrection ?
Somebody has to do it since May was found sleeping. She completely forgot Gibraltar.
She probably thought the EU wouldn't stoop so low as to play games with the citizens of Gibraltar.
Having put the future security of both EU citizens and British citizens on the table, Britain is in no position to accuse the EU of stooping low.
The EU's position is in any case logical. After Brexit, the dispute between Britain and Spain over Gibraltar will involve only one EU country. It would be quite wrong for the rest of the EU to start from a position of forcing its member to make concessions on such a dispute against its will. I thought Leavers liked the idea of bilateral negotiations?
Except Spain has zero legal basis for the claim. Or is that not an issue because they are now on the side of the EU?
Gibraltar is British when it wants to be. It is nothing more than a low tax, no duties smugglers den. Who is the MP for Gibraltar in the HoC ?
When has Gibraltar not wanted to be British? Or are you just talking out of your arse.
Would Gibraltar be happy to have their affairs administered from London?
They seem the be okay with some affairs being administered from London. Still, I don't think home rule is on the table.
Comments
We are not there yet
We have lost our soul
The course has been set
We're digging our own hole
We're going backwards
Armed with new technology
Going backwards
To a caveman mentality
We can emulate on consoles
Killings we can control
With senses that have been dulled
Because there's nothing inside
We feel nothing inside
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiQNUiNy--g
For those who perceive driverless lorries - who loads them, unloads them and moves the goods from road to destination?
The drivers are usually more than just drivers.
Who/what throws your Amazon parcel over the wall? Who/what records it?
The right thing to do at some point will be to make human operation of a road vehicle illegal.
However I think they work best with external stimuli .... road markings, signs etc to react to and learn from. So featureless environments would actually be more dangerous to them.
Google/Alphabet/Waymo have taken a very different route to Tesla et al. Google decided early on that it was pointless having anything less than full automation, as it was impossible for a human to stay alert for the one time in every half hour he might be needed. Therefore they're trying to go big-bang towards full automation, and plan for their cars to have no human controls such as steering wheel (though I bet they have emergency controls through a console / smarthphone).
That's a much harder task.
Eventually we reached the bend, below which was the Murray River. Apparently many drivers went straight down.
There's also a main road in Lincolnshire where an ancient long straight is cut by an airfield (?Scampton?); the road now goes around the outside. A friend told me there used to be a fair few crashes there as well.
https://twitter.com/ValerieRooney1/status/847869141210083329
https://dutchreview.com/news/international-news/scotland-netherlands-reach-brexit-agreement-annexation/
To be honest, even though this whole conversation is about my home town I'm more interested in the driverless car thread. I'm learning things on that arc.
No-one is going to sell you out.
I've just laid off a chunk on him as well.
Squeaky bum time.
But, are they missing a trick by not going for a single European language?
What happened to Esperanto?
@Alistair point is a good one.
More incentives for employers to provide some level of health plan would be a good idea I think - halve the benefit in kind taxation element perhaps ?
If Corbyn gave a damn about the Labour Party he would have gone by now.
The EU will make itself even more irrelevant without it.
Esperanto ne francan kaj tial neniam gajnos.
Godbless you Google, despite your evil ways.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39465631
I was mainly alluding to Ireland.
Which makes me wonder, are people who speak that language Maltesers?
Official languages in Ireland: Irish and ENGLISH
They still actually teach it though?
I believe that Malta can entirely happily get by in Maltese, but that it's not true to say that Ireland can happily work in Irish.
Anyway English will have to be maintained as an official EU language.
About fecking time
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/01/abu-hamzas-son-stripped-british-passport-waging-jihad-syria/
Here you go....
The citizens voted overwhelmingly to remain in the EU after all so it can't be such a tragedy for the people if sovereignty is transferred. Those who don't like the idea but were keen on Brexit could even consider it 'taking one for the team' in order to help secure a good deal for the UK.
Gi ne estos blanka lavos en la blanka domo
The EU's position is in any case logical. After Brexit, the dispute between Britain and Spain over Gibraltar will involve only one EU country. It would be quite wrong for the rest of the EU to start from a position of forcing its member to make concessions on such a dispute against its will. I thought Leavers liked the idea of bilateral negotiations?
If you asked the Gibraltarians if they wanted to join Spain, I'm sure you'd get a result similar to the last referendum. The recent news will no doubt harden their resolve.
And really, if they are comparable, why the lack outrage from you on this issue? You were quite vocal on the security issue.
(1) Britain questioning security co-operation
(2) Spain questing Gibraltar and
(3) Nothing happening to either post-Beexit
Is actually quite a British way of negotiation emphasising compromise.
Britain clearly has current sovereignty. But to say that Spain has zero legal basis for its position is wildly overstating the case.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_the_European_Union