politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » UKIP: circling the whirlpool
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the british people voted for BrexitSouthamObserver said:
It's the British government.Alanbrooke said:@ Southam
oh the joyful inconsistency
two days ago it was the english caused Brexit, now it's the british
the government is simply implementing their decision0 -
And the Scots SNP.....TwistedFireStopper said:
I now realise I should have voted to remain to keep the Irish happy.Alanbrooke said:@ Southam
oh the joyful inconsistency
two days ago it was the english caused Brexit, now it's the british
0 -
Perhaps Brown should start shouting "Scottish Jobs For Scottish Workers" on Kirkcaldy High Street.SouthamObserver said:
Brown is looking for solutions. If only others were as well.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Observer, Brown's making a difficult situation worse because he's a short-sighted, narrow-minded buffoon.
Now if there's a referendum and a No vote the SNP will be bleating for a raft of new powers, with Brown on backing vocals.
I think we've had more than enough of Brown's solutions.
0 -
Countries should act in their own best interests. You might just as well argue that the interests of France or Spain should have taken priority, when we voted in the EU referendum.SouthamObserver said:
Voting for Brexit dumps all over them. Irish leaders should have realised that the British would - not unreasonably - never factor the needs of Ireland (North or South) into their decision-making, and they should have planned accordingly. As I say, it's a lesson they have no doubt now learned.Sean_F said:
I don't understand what you think we've done recently that's so horrible to the Irish.SouthamObserver said:
It does and I agree that the Irish were very unwise to believe that the Brits had changed.Sean_F said:
It's a foreign country. We have no moral obligation to act in their best interests, any more than they have a moral obligation to act in our best interests.SouthamObserver said:
Yep - they should have realised that the Brits can never, ever be trusted to act in Ireland's best interests. That was undoubtedly naïve. I suspect that the lesson has finally been learned.Sean_F said:
After Britain.Alanbrooke said:
theyve been let down by the left wing, by the centre, by the irish too. Nobody has a monopoly on screwing up.SouthamObserver said:
My establishment.Alanbrooke said:
good to see your views areSouthamObserver said:
ThenCharles said:
We weren'tSouthamObserver said:
Whatever happened to the Anglo-Irish?Charles said:
You may have the EU as compensation)SouthamObserver said:
Along with us somehow bestriding the world with Dong by Ireland.Charles said:
The implication is that if there is "no dealative on offer...FF43 said:
Ireland to avoid.Charles said:
Doesn't that strengthen May's hand?williamglenn said:
The Brexit vote - which was a huge blow for Ireland - happened in the 21st century, of course.
Whetherbanks back.
In outsiders.
In any case, I expect the CTA will remain in place, and trade with Ireland will remain extensive, post Brexit.0 -
it will be a long waitTwistedFireStopper said:
I now realise I should have voted to remain to keep the Irish happy.Alanbrooke said:@ Southam
oh the joyful inconsistency
two days ago it was the english caused Brexit, now it's the british
SO and I have been on this board for many years and he still hasnt apologised to me for causing the potato famine.
git.0 -
Very good thread header, I can't see UKIP surviving past the EU elections, I think that's next year, when a lot of funding and representation will end. They are very bad at elections mainly because the ground campaigning is very ineffective. Farage essentially won 4m votes on his own but his campaign in Thanet was pretty dismal.
Shame but their objective was achieved.0 -
Because Brexit is bad for them.SouthamObserver said:
Why on earth would you have done that?TwistedFireStopper said:
I now realise I should have voted to remain to keep the Irish happy.Alanbrooke said:@ Southam
oh the joyful inconsistency
two days ago it was the english caused Brexit, now it's the british0 -
My references to the British were to the government. English voters delivered Brexit.Alanbrooke said:
the british people voted for BrexitSouthamObserver said:
It's the British government.Alanbrooke said:@ Southam
oh the joyful inconsistency
two days ago it was the english caused Brexit, now it's the british
the government is simply implementing their decision
0 -
Then why didn't you?TwistedFireStopper said:
Because Brexit is bad for them.SouthamObserver said:
Why on earth would you have done that?TwistedFireStopper said:
I now realise I should have voted to remain to keep the Irish happy.Alanbrooke said:@ Southam
oh the joyful inconsistency
two days ago it was the english caused Brexit, now it's the british
0 -
Thanks for the tips yesterday, Dandridge placing in the last earnt me a small profit for the day, by placing the each way double with Wonderful Charm - who was good enough to win but poorly positioned by Katie Walsh.freetochoose said:Very good thread header, I can't see UKIP surviving past the EU elections, I think that's next year, when a lot of funding and representation will end. They are very bad at elections mainly because the ground campaigning is very ineffective. Farage essentially won 4m votes on his own but his campaign in Thanet was pretty dismal.
Shame but their objective was achieved.
Also Native River probably could have won but got too focussed in a duel with Djakadam, and they probably raced the finish out of each other.
A small profit on the day anyway.0 -
Once you've saved the union and the whole world eventually your luck runs out.CarlottaVance said:0 -
'cos I don't give a flying feck about them.SouthamObserver said:
Then why didn't you?TwistedFireStopper said:
Because Brexit is bad for them.SouthamObserver said:
Why on earth would you have done that?TwistedFireStopper said:
I now realise I should have voted to remain to keep the Irish happy.Alanbrooke said:@ Southam
oh the joyful inconsistency
two days ago it was the english caused Brexit, now it's the british0 -
you still havent got the hang of this demos thingSouthamObserver said:
My references to the British were to the government. English voters delivered Brexit.Alanbrooke said:
the british people voted for BrexitSouthamObserver said:
It's the British government.Alanbrooke said:@ Southam
oh the joyful inconsistency
two days ago it was the english caused Brexit, now it's the british
the government is simply implementing their decision0 -
That was the right wing, English nationalist, protestant ascendency, of which I am not part ;-)Alanbrooke said:
it will be a long waitTwistedFireStopper said:
I now realise I should have voted to remain to keep the Irish happy.Alanbrooke said:@ Southam
oh the joyful inconsistency
two days ago it was the english caused Brexit, now it's the british
SO and I have been on this board for many years and he still hasnt apologised to me for causing the potato famine.
git.
0 -
Voted on by ~15%; of those affected. The rest of the home nations were never asked if they wanted to remain in economic and political union with the Northern Irish - it was just assumed that they did.SouthamObserver said:
It's hard to reconcile the Good Friday Agreement, which the UK signed and which was approved by voters on both sides of the Border, with Brexit.0 -
QEDTwistedFireStopper said:
'cos I don't give a flying feck about them.SouthamObserver said:
Then why didn't you?TwistedFireStopper said:
Because Brexit is bad for them.SouthamObserver said:
Why on earth would you have done that?TwistedFireStopper said:
I now realise I should have voted to remain to keep the Irish happy.Alanbrooke said:@ Southam
oh the joyful inconsistency
two days ago it was the english caused Brexit, now it's the british
0 -
I'm surprised to find you were alive in the 1840sSouthamObserver said:
That was the right wing, English nationalist, protestant ascendency, of which I am not part ;-)Alanbrooke said:
it will be a long waitTwistedFireStopper said:
I now realise I should have voted to remain to keep the Irish happy.Alanbrooke said:@ Southam
oh the joyful inconsistency
two days ago it was the english caused Brexit, now it's the british
SO and I have been on this board for many years and he still hasnt apologised to me for causing the potato famine.
git.0 -
Mr. F, next you'll be suggesting people prioritise their family over strangers.0
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Thanks for that, thought Native River ran a great race for a 7 year old. Hate criticising jockeys but Katie gave it a shocking ride, Dandridge just a bit one paced. In hindsight (haha!) the winner should have been backed on last year's form.Pulpstar said:
Thanks for the tips yesterday, Dandridge placing in the last earnt me a small profit for the day, by placing the each way double with Wonderful Charm - who was good enough to win but poorly positioned by Katie Walsh.freetochoose said:Very good thread header, I can't see UKIP surviving past the EU elections, I think that's next year, when a lot of funding and representation will end. They are very bad at elections mainly because the ground campaigning is very ineffective. Farage essentially won 4m votes on his own but his campaign in Thanet was pretty dismal.
Shame but their objective was achieved.
Also Native River probably could have won but got too focussed in a duel with Djakadam, and they probably raced the finish out of each other.
A small profit on the day anyway.
Overall a very good week, great fun and profitable0 -
I do. I get that if the English vote in enough numbers for something in a referendum they will almost always get what they want.Alanbrooke said:
you still havent got the hang of this demos thingSouthamObserver said:
My references to the British were to the government. English voters delivered Brexit.Alanbrooke said:
the british people voted for BrexitSouthamObserver said:
It's the British government.Alanbrooke said:@ Southam
oh the joyful inconsistency
two days ago it was the english caused Brexit, now it's the british
the government is simply implementing their decision
0 -
My ancestors were - destitute, deprived of any democratic representation and held in contempt by the protestant ascendency.Alanbrooke said:
I'm surprised to find you were alive in the 1840sSouthamObserver said:
That was the right wing, English nationalist, protestant ascendency, of which I am not part ;-)Alanbrooke said:
it will be a long waitTwistedFireStopper said:
I now realise I should have voted to remain to keep the Irish happy.Alanbrooke said:@ Southam
oh the joyful inconsistency
two days ago it was the english caused Brexit, now it's the british
SO and I have been on this board for many years and he still hasnt apologised to me for causing the potato famine.
git.
0 -
Exactly. I know you're passionate about this, and I could vote for a Joff Labour Party. We just all have different views on Brexit. It might be great, it might be terrible. Hell, it might not even happen, but the fact that enough of the population got off their arses to at least have a say should be celebrated, and acknowledged that it wasn't working to its potential for Britain.SouthamObserver said:
QEDTwistedFireStopper said:
'cos I don't give a flying feck about them.SouthamObserver said:
Then why didn't you?TwistedFireStopper said:
Because Brexit is bad for them.SouthamObserver said:
Why on earth would you have done that?TwistedFireStopper said:
I now realise I should have voted to remain to keep the Irish happy.Alanbrooke said:@ Southam
oh the joyful inconsistency
two days ago it was the english caused Brexit, now it's the british
That's probably true of the Union as well.0 -
Yep, we agree: Irish leaders should not have put their faith in the Brits.Sean_F said:
Countries should act in their own best interests. You might just as well argue that the interests of France or Spain should have taken priority, when we voted in the EU referendum.SouthamObserver said:
Voting learned.Sean_F said:
I don't understand what you think we've done recently that's so horrible to the Irish.SouthamObserver said:
It does and I agree that the Irish were very unwise to believe that the Brits had changed.Sean_F said:
It's a foreign country. We have no moral obligation to act in their best interests, any more than they have a moral obligation to act in our best interests.SouthamObserver said:
Yep - they should have realised that the Brits can never, ever be trusted to act in Ireland's best interests. That was undoubtedly naïve. I suspect that the lesson has finally been learned.Sean_F said:
After Britain.Alanbrooke said:
theyve been let down by the left wing, by the centre, by the irish too. Nobody has a monopoly on screwing up.SouthamObserver said:
My establishment.Alanbrooke said:
good to see your views areSouthamObserver said:
ThenCharles said:
We weren'tSouthamObserver said:
Whatever happened to the Anglo-Irish?Charles said:
You may have the EU as compensation)SouthamObserver said:
Along with us somehow bestriding the world with Dong by Ireland.Charles said:
The implication is that if there is "no dealative on offer...FF43 said:
Ireland to avoid.Charles said:
Doesn't that strengthen May's hand?williamglenn said:
The Brexit vote - which was a huge blow for Ireland - happened in the 21st century, of course.
Whetherbanks back.
In outsiders.
In any case, I expect the CTA will remain in place, and trade with Ireland will remain extensive, post Brexit.
0 -
Careful now.Pulpstar said:Has Brown actually come up with a good idea ?
A FULLY federal United Kingdom might just be the solution.
Or someone might call you an English Nationalist.0 -
When did they do that ?SouthamObserver said:
Yep, we agree: Irish leaders should not have put their faith in the Brits.Sean_F said:
Countries should act in their own best interests. You might just as well argue that the interests of France or Spain should have taken priority, when we voted in the EU referendum.SouthamObserver said:
Voting learned.Sean_F said:
I don't understand what you think we've done recently that's so horrible to the Irish.SouthamObserver said:
It does and I agree that the Irish were very unwise to believe that the Brits had changed.Sean_F said:
It's a foreign country. We have no moral obligation to act in their best interests, any more than they have a moral obligation to act in our best interests.SouthamObserver said:
Yep - they should have realised that the Brits can never, ever be trusted to act in Ireland's best interests. That was undoubtedly naïve. I suspect that the lesson has finally been learned.Sean_F said:
After Britain.Alanbrooke said:
theyve been let down by the left wing, by the centre, by the irish too. Nobody has a monopoly on screwing up.SouthamObserver said:
My establishment.Alanbrooke said:
good to see your views areSouthamObserver said:
ThenCharles said:
We weren'tSouthamObserver said:
Whatever happened to the Anglo-Irish?Charles said:
You may have the EU as compensation)SouthamObserver said:
Along with us somehow bestriding the world with Dong by Ireland.Charles said:
The implication is that if there is "no dealative on offer...FF43 said:
Ireland to avoid.Charles said:
Doesn't that strengthen May's hand?williamglenn said:
The Brexit vote - which was a huge blow for Ireland - happened in the 21st century, of course.
Whetherbanks back.
In outsiders.
In any case, I expect the CTA will remain in place, and trade with Ireland will remain extensive, post Brexit.0 -
We can't be far from 'I'm sorry you don't understand what I wrote'
0 -
Of course not. But who says they did?SouthamObserver said:
Yep, we agree: Irish leaders should not have put their faith in the Brits.Sean_F said:
Countries should act in their own best interests. You might just as well argue that the interests of France or Spain should have taken priority, when we voted in the EU referendum.SouthamObserver said:
Voting learned.Sean_F said:
I don't understand what you think we've done recently that's so horrible to the Irish.SouthamObserver said:
It does and I agree that the Irish were very unwise to believe that the Brits had changed.Sean_F said:
It's a foreign country. We have no moral obligation to act in their best interests, any more than they have a moral obligation to act in our best interests.SouthamObserver said:
Yep - they should have realised that the Brits can never, ever be trusted to act in Ireland's best interests. That was undoubtedly naïve. I suspect that the lesson has finally been learned.Sean_F said:
After Britain.Alanbrooke said:
theyve been let down by the left wing, by the centre, by the irish too. Nobody has a monopoly on screwing up.SouthamObserver said:
My establishment.Alanbrooke said:
good to see your views areSouthamObserver said:
ThenCharles said:
We weren'tSouthamObserver said:
Whatever happened to the Anglo-Irish?Charles said:
You may have the EU as compensation)SouthamObserver said:
Along with us somehow bestriding the world with Dong by Ireland.Charles said:
The implication is that if there is "no dealative on offer...FF43 said:
Ireland to avoid.Charles said:
Doesn't that strengthen May's hand?williamglenn said:
The Brexit vote - which was a huge blow for Ireland - happened in the 21st century, of course.
Whetherbanks back.
In outsiders.
In any case, I expect the CTA will remain in place, and trade with Ireland will remain extensive, post Brexit.0 -
0
-
hey so were mineSouthamObserver said:
My ancestors were - destitute, deprived of any democratic representation and held in contempt by the protestant ascendency.Alanbrooke said:
I'm surprised to find you were alive in the 1840sSouthamObserver said:
That was the right wing, English nationalist, protestant ascendency, of which I am not part ;-)Alanbrooke said:
it will be a long waitTwistedFireStopper said:
I now realise I should have voted to remain to keep the Irish happy.Alanbrooke said:@ Southam
oh the joyful inconsistency
two days ago it was the english caused Brexit, now it's the british
SO and I have been on this board for many years and he still hasnt apologised to me for causing the potato famine.
git.
but Ive got over it.0 -
Yep - I have very different views of those who voted for Brexit and those who led the Brexit campaign. I fear that the latter are going to let the former down big-time.TwistedFireStopper said:
Exactly. I know you're passionate about this, and I could vote for a Joff Labour Party. We just all have different views on Brexit. It might be great, it might be terrible. Hell, it might not even happen, but the fact that enough of the population got off their arses to at least have a say should be celebrated, and acknowledged that it wasn't working to its potential for Britain.SouthamObserver said:
QEDTwistedFireStopper said:
'cos I don't give a flying feck about them.SouthamObserver said:
Then why didn't you?TwistedFireStopper said:
Because Brexit is bad for them.SouthamObserver said:
Why on earth would you have done that?TwistedFireStopper said:
I now realise I should have voted to remain to keep the Irish happy.Alanbrooke said:@ Southam
oh the joyful inconsistency
two days ago it was the english caused Brexit, now it's the british
That's probably true of the Union as well.
I totally get why Leave won - huge numbers of people feel that they have no real stake in the country as it currently functions (which is why Scottish independence is so attractive too, of course). What I don't see is how Brexit will change anything, except for the worse at the margins. It doesn't have to be like that, but the Hard Brexit path we have embarked on means that it probably will be.
0 -
The mildly outrageous comments that fuelled UKIP and the countries desire to Leave the EU were the wildly inaccurate predictions from Labour and the Conservatives regarding the number of immigrants that were to come from the A8 and Romania & Bulgaria, and their toffee nosed dismissal of anyone who disputed themNickPalmer said:Interesting article, as always from David. I think UKIP still has a nebulous but powerful appeal as the "outsiders" party, the people who say stuff that Westminster doesn't. It's a politician's mistake to see their support as mostly about Brexit - the polls have always been right that EU membership was a minority preoccupation, though everyone accepts that thre coming negotiations are important (if, they might add, boring to keep talking about),
UKIP has been about immigration plus "we're for the ordinary bloke". They don't really have to do anything to maintain that, except make mildly outrageous commens onw and then (copyirght D. Trump) - enough to stay in the news, not enough to get generally seen as neo-Nazis. I think there's 10% audience for that, indefinitely.
It's hardly outrageous for UKIP to point out the truth (or predict the numbers more accurately in the case of Rom & Bul)0 -
Getting back to the thread header Brexit will change things enormously for UKIP, all the people currently being paid as MEPs will soon have to get proper jobs and won't have the time to dedicate to politics. As Farage said many times, he was campaigning to get himself the sack.SouthamObserver said:
Yep - I have very different views of those who voted for Brexit and those who led the Brexit campaign. I fear that the latter are going to let the former down big-time.TwistedFireStopper said:
Exactly. I know you're passionate about this, and I could vote for a Joff Labour Party. We just all have different views on Brexit. It might be great, it might be terrible. Hell, it might not even happen, but the fact that enough of the population got off their arses to at least have a say should be celebrated, and acknowledged that it wasn't working to its potential for Britain.SouthamObserver said:
QEDTwistedFireStopper said:
'cos I don't give a flying feck about them.SouthamObserver said:
Then why didn't you?TwistedFireStopper said:
Because Brexit is bad for them.SouthamObserver said:
Why on earth would you have done that?TwistedFireStopper said:
I now realise I should have voted to remain to keep the Irish happy.Alanbrooke said:@ Southam
oh the joyful inconsistency
two days ago it was the english caused Brexit, now it's the british
That's probably true of the Union as well.
I totally get why Leave won - huge numbers of people feel that they have no real stake in the country as it currently functions (which is why Scottish independence is so attractive too, of course). What I don't see is how Brexit will change anything, except for the worse at the margins. It doesn't have to be like that, but the Hard Brexit path we have embarked on means that it probably will be.0 -
Irish political leaders clearly believed until it was far too late that the UK was a permanent member of the EU and made a lot of decisions about the trajectory of the country's economy as a result that are now going to cause Ireland a lot of problems.Sean_F said:
Of course not. But who says they did?SouthamObserver said:
Yep, we agree: Irish leaders should not have put their faith in the Brits.Sean_F said:
Countriesreferendum.SouthamObserver said:
Voting learned.Sean_F said:
I don't understand what you think we've done recently that's so horrible to the Irish.SouthamObserver said:
It does and I agree that the Irish were very unwise to believe that the Brits had changed.Sean_F said:
It's a interests.SouthamObserver said:
Yep - learned.Sean_F said:
After Britain.Alanbrooke said:
theyve been let down by the left wing, by the centre, by the irish too. Nobody has a monopoly on screwing up.SouthamObserver said:
My establishment.Alanbrooke said:
good to see your views areSouthamObserver said:
ThenCharles said:
We weren'tSouthamObserver said:
Whatever happened to the Anglo-Irish?Charles said:
You may have the EU as compensation)SouthamObserver said:
Along with us somehow bestriding the world with Dong by Ireland.Charles said:
The implication is that if there is "no dealative on offer...FF43 said:
Ireland to avoid.Charles said:
Doesn't that strengthen May's hand?williamglenn said:
The Brexit vote - which was a huge blow for Ireland - happened in the 21st century, of course.
Whetherbanks back.
In outsiders.
In Brexit.
0 -
You have joined it. They won't have me.Alanbrooke said:
hey so were mineSouthamObserver said:
My ancestors were - destitute, deprived of any democratic representation and held in contempt by the protestant ascendency.Alanbrooke said:
I'm surprised to find you were alive in the 1840sSouthamObserver said:
That was the right wing, English nationalist, protestant ascendency, of which I am not part ;-)Alanbrooke said:
it will be a long waitTwistedFireStopper said:
I now realise I should have voted to remain to keep the Irish happy.Alanbrooke said:@ Southam
oh the joyful inconsistency
two days ago it was the english caused Brexit, now it's the british
SO and I have been on this board for many years and he still hasnt apologised to me for causing the potato famine.
git.
but Ive got over it.
0 -
Everyone will have had different priorities. I voted Leave because I disliked the way the EU was becoming a State, and the way that every problem is treated as a pretext for More Europe. And, I saw no willingness on its part to change.SouthamObserver said:
Yep - I have very different views of those who voted for Brexit and those who led the Brexit campaign. I fear that the latter are going to let the former down big-time.TwistedFireStopper said:
Exactly. I know you're passionate about this, and I could vote for a Joff Labour Party. We just all have different views on Brexit. It might be great, it might be terrible. Hell, it might not even happen, but the fact that enough of the population got off their arses to at least have a say should be celebrated, and acknowledged that it wasn't working to its potential for Britain.SouthamObserver said:
QEDTwistedFireStopper said:
'cos I don't give a flying feck about them.SouthamObserver said:
Then why didn't you?TwistedFireStopper said:
Because Brexit is bad for them.SouthamObserver said:
Why on earth would you have done that?TwistedFireStopper said:
I now realise I should have voted to remain to keep the Irish happy.Alanbrooke said:@ Southam
oh the joyful inconsistency
two days ago it was the english caused Brexit, now it's the british
That's probably true of the Union as well.
I totally get why Leave won - huge numbers of people feel that they have no real stake in the country as it currently functions (which is why Scottish independence is so attractive too, of course). What I don't see is how Brexit will change anything, except for the worse at the margins. It doesn't have to be like that, but the Hard Brexit path we have embarked on means that it probably will be.0 -
their decision to break the link with sterling and join the ERM in 1979would sort of say differentSouthamObserver said:
Irish political leaders clearly believed until it was far too late that the UK was a permanent member of the EU and made a lot of decisions about the trajectory of the country's economy as a result that are now going to cause Ireland a lot of problems.Sean_F said:
Of course not. But who says they did?SouthamObserver said:
Yep, we agree: Irish leaders should not have put their faith in the Brits.Sean_F said:
Countriesreferendum.SouthamObserver said:
Voting learned.Sean_F said:
I don't understand what you think we've done recently that's so horrible to the Irish.SouthamObserver said:
It does and I agree that the Irish were very unwise to believe that the Brits had changed.Sean_F said:
It's a interests.SouthamObserver said:
Yep - learned.Sean_F said:
After Britain.Alanbrooke said:
theyve been let down by the left wing, by the centre, by the irish too. Nobody has a monopoly on screwing up.SouthamObserver said:
My establishment.Alanbrooke said:
good to see your views areSouthamObserver said:
ThenCharles said:
We weren'tSouthamObserver said:
Whatever happened to the Anglo-Irish?Charles said:
You may have the EU as compensation)SouthamObserver said:
Along with us somehow bestriding the world with Dong by Ireland.Charles said:
The implication is that if there is "no dealative on offer...FF43 said:
Ireland to avoid.Charles said:
Doesn't that strengthen May's hand?williamglenn said:
The Brexit vote - which was a huge blow for Ireland - happened in the 21st century, of course.
Whetherbanks back.
In outsiders.
In Brexit.
the biggest economic problem they had in 2008 came as a result of the Euro and had nothing to do with the UK
0 -
' Immigration to the UK could increase by more than 10% as a result of EU enlargement, according to research commissioned by the Home Office.isam said:
The mildly outrageous comments that fuelled UKIP and the countries desire to Leave the EU were the wildly inaccurate predictions from Labour and the Conservatives regarding the number of immigrants that were to come from the A8 and Romania & Bulgaria, and their toffee nosed dismissal of anyone who disputed themNickPalmer said:Interesting article, as always from David. I think UKIP still has a nebulous but powerful appeal as the "outsiders" party, the people who say stuff that Westminster doesn't. It's a politician's mistake to see their support as mostly about Brexit - the polls have always been right that EU membership was a minority preoccupation, though everyone accepts that thre coming negotiations are important (if, they might add, boring to keep talking about),
UKIP has been about immigration plus "we're for the ordinary bloke". They don't really have to do anything to maintain that, except make mildly outrageous commens onw and then (copyirght D. Trump) - enough to stay in the news, not enough to get generally seen as neo-Nazis. I think there's 10% audience for that, indefinitely.
It's hardly outrageous for UKIP to point out the truth (or predict the numbers more accurately in the case of Rom & Bul)
A report indicated that up to 13,000 extra economic migrants could come to Britain each year as a direct result of 10 new countries joining the organisation.
The Conservatives have expressed fears that expanding the EU would result in large numbers of people from the former Communist countries looking for a more prosperous future in countries like the UK.
But Home Office Minister Beverley Hughes told MPs: “The number coming here for employment will be minimal.” ‘
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/2967318.stm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJRtDPOjQ7g
0 -
I may be wrong, but I suspect that your Leave vote was not a typical one. I always saw the referendum as being a lot more about immigration. And that was (and is) an issue because so many parts of the country feel neglected and rejected.Sean_F said:
Everyone will have had different priorities. I voted Leave because I disliked the way the EU was becoming a State, and the way that every problem is treated as a pretext for More Europe. And, I saw no willingness on its part to change.SouthamObserver said:
Yep - I have very different views of those who voted for Brexit and those who led the Brexit campaign. I fear that the latter are going to let the former down big-time.TwistedFireStopper said:
Exactly. I know you're passionate about this, and I could vote for a Joff Labour Party. We just all have different views on Brexit. It might be great, it might be terrible. Hell, it might not even happen, but the fact that enough of the population got off their arses to at least have a say should be celebrated, and acknowledged that it wasn't working to its potential for Britain.SouthamObserver said:
QEDTwistedFireStopper said:
'cos I don't give a flying feck about them.SouthamObserver said:
Then why didn't you?TwistedFireStopper said:
Because Brexit is bad for them.SouthamObserver said:
Why on earth would you have done that?TwistedFireStopper said:
I now realise I should have voted to remain to keep the Irish happy.Alanbrooke said:@ Southam
oh the joyful inconsistency
two days ago it was the english caused Brexit, now it's the british
That's probably true of the Union as well.
I totally get why Leave won - huge numbers of people feel that they have no real stake in the country as it currently functions (which is why Scottish independence is so attractive too, of course). What I don't see is how Brexit will change anything, except for the worse at the margins. It doesn't have to be like that, but the Hard Brexit path we have embarked on means that it probably will be.
0 -
This probably says a lot more about me than him, but all I'm seeing is Brown stumbling about the stage muttering "Blah blah blah, I'm a c@"#!"0
-
That was my view as well, but I do recognise that a lot of it was about immigration. The key is not to let it become an anti-foreigner steam roller. That's the difficult bit!Sean_F said:
Everyone will have had different priorities. I voted Leave because I disliked the way the EU was becoming a State, and the way that every problem is treated as a pretext for More Europe. And, I saw no willingness on its part to change.SouthamObserver said:
Yep - I have very different views of those who voted for Brexit and those who led the Brexit campaign. I fear that the latter are going to let the former down big-time.TwistedFireStopper said:
Exactly. I know you're passionate about this, and I could vote for a Joff Labour Party. We just all have different views on Brexit. It might be great, it might be terrible. Hell, it might not even happen, but the fact that enough of the population got off their arses to at least have a say should be celebrated, and acknowledged that it wasn't working to its potential for Britain.SouthamObserver said:
QEDTwistedFireStopper said:
'cos I don't give a flying feck about them.SouthamObserver said:
Then why didn't you?TwistedFireStopper said:
Because Brexit is bad for them.SouthamObserver said:
Why on earth would you have done that?TwistedFireStopper said:
I now realise I should have voted to remain to keep the Irish happy.Alanbrooke said:@ Southam
oh the joyful inconsistency
two days ago it was the english caused Brexit, now it's the british
That's probably true of the Union as well.
I totally get why Leave won - huge numbers of people feel that they have no real stake in the country as it currently functions (which is why Scottish independence is so attractive too, of course). What I don't see is how Brexit will change anything, except for the worse at the margins. It doesn't have to be like that, but the Hard Brexit path we have embarked on means that it probably will be.0 -
Hope no one did too much damage at Cheltenham. I had 3 losing days followed by a final day profit that put me ahead on the meeting thanks to Sizing John winning the Gold Cup. Great race.
361 days to go ......0 -
I'm not so sure about that. For Gisela Stuart, David Owen, John Cleese, and Stodge, they had similar reasons.SouthamObserver said:
I may be wrong, but I suspect that your Leave vote was not a typical one. I always saw the referendum as being a lot more about immigration. And that was (and is) an issue because so many parts of the country feel neglected and rejected.Sean_F said:
Everyone will have had different priorities. I voted Leave because I disliked the way the EU was becoming a State, and the way that every problem is treated as a pretext for More Europe. And, I saw no willingness on its part to change.SouthamObserver said:
Yep -TwistedFireStopper said:
Exactly.SouthamObserver said:
QEDTwistedFireStopper said:
'cos I don't give a flying feck about them.SouthamObserver said:
Then why didn't you?TwistedFireStopper said:
Because Brexit is bad for them.SouthamObserver said:
Why on earth would you have done that?TwistedFireStopper said:
I now realise I should have voted to remain to keep the Irish happy.Alanbrooke said:@ Southam
oh the joyful inconsistency
two days ago it was the english caused Brexit, now it's the british
I suspect that about 35% of the vote for Leave would have been achieved if they'd even failed to mention immigration once, or even argued for more of it, and about 15-20% extra votes on top of that were achieved through the focus on immigration in the final month.
And even those numbers may be an exaggeration.
Of course, it has since been characterised as a vote all about immigration, because that's what brought it across the line, but that doesn't mean that characterisation is right.0 -
That's what sovereignty and independence bring you. Ireland chose to go its own way. But the disadvantage of being able to determine your own policy is that others might develop theirs in a way that isn't beneficial and you have no input into that process.SouthamObserver said:
Irish political leaders clearly believed until it was far too late that the UK was a permanent member of the EU and made a lot of decisions about the trajectory of the country's economy as a result that are now going to cause Ireland a lot of problems.Sean_F said:
Of course not. But who says they did?SouthamObserver said:
Yep, we agree: Irish leaders should not have put their faith in the Brits.Sean_F said:
Countriesreferendum.SouthamObserver said:
Voting learned.Sean_F said:
I don't understand what you think we've done recently that's so horrible to the Irish.SouthamObserver said:
It does and I agree that the Irish were very unwise to believe that the Brits had changed.Sean_F said:
It's a interests.SouthamObserver said:
Yep - learned.Sean_F said:
After Britain.Alanbrooke said:
theyve been let down by the left wing, by the centre, by the irish too. Nobody has a monopoly on screwing up.SouthamObserver said:
My establishment.Alanbrooke said:
good to see your views areSouthamObserver said:
ThenCharles said:
We weren'tSouthamObserver said:
Whatever happened to the Anglo-Irish?Charles said:
You may have the EU as compensation)SouthamObserver said:
Along with us somehow bestriding the world with Dong by Ireland.Charles said:
The implication is that if there is "no dealative on offer...FF43 said:
Ireland to avoid.Charles said:
Doesn't that strengthen May's hand?williamglenn said:
The Brexit vote - which was a huge blow for Ireland - happened in the 21st century, of course.
Whetherbanks back.
In outsiders.
In Brexit.0 -
And when did Ireland get this idea that the UK had signed up to EverCloserUnion, something which British governments have never accepted.SouthamObserver said:
Irish political leaders clearly believed until it was far too late that the UK was a permanent member of the EU and made a lot of decisions about the trajectory of the country's economy as a result that are now going to cause Ireland a lot of problems.Sean_F said:
Of course not. But who says they did?SouthamObserver said:
Yep, we agree: Irish leaders should not have put their faith in the Brits.Sean_F said:
Countriesreferendum.SouthamObserver said:
Voting learned.Sean_F said:
I don't understand what you think we've done recently that's so horrible to the Irish.SouthamObserver said:
It does and I agree that the Irish were very unwise to believe that the Brits had changed.Sean_F said:
It's a interests.SouthamObserver said:
Yep - learned.Sean_F said:
After Britain.Alanbrooke said:
theyve been let down by the left wing, by the centre, by the irish too. Nobody has a monopoly on screwing up.SouthamObserver said:
My establishment.Alanbrooke said:
good to see your views areSouthamObserver said:
ThenCharles said:
We weren'tSouthamObserver said:
Whatever happened to the Anglo-Irish?Charles said:
You may have the EU as compensation)SouthamObserver said:
Along with us somehow bestriding the world with Dong by Ireland.Charles said:
The implication is that if there is "no dealative on offer...FF43 said:
Ireland to avoid.Charles said:
Doesn't that strengthen May's hand?williamglenn said:
The Brexit vote - which was a huge blow for Ireland - happened in the 21st century, of course.
Whetherbanks back.
In outsiders.
In Brexit.
Perhaps if the Irish government had rejected the Treaties of Nice and Lisbon after its own people had voted against them in referenda we wouldn't be in the current situation.
0 -
There are 2 or 3 posters on PB who would be better off on Facebook bragging about how much they earn, what brilliant hotels they staying in and how much they have just spent on a bottle of wine. It's only a matter of time before they start posting their holiday pics. I assume they think everyone else is interested either that or it's a not-so-subtle way of saying my opinion is more important because look how successful I am.malcolmg said:
Arrogance and deriding other people does not make me think you would be any good. Keep waving that silver spoon. Even Trump can make millions when he is handed Daddy's money to start off.Charles said:
Wouldn't pretend to be an expert. But big companies hire me to negotiate on their behalf. Given that I'm not cheap (I don't get out of bed for less than $1 million) I guess they think I add value.malcolmg said:
No doubt you will be an expert, all that ordering about of footmen and butlers with your silver spoon honed your skills, add a dash of pomposity and hey voila.Charles said:
That's why we won't play the card. Everyone knows it exists, that's all that matterswilliamglenn said:
Playing brinkmanship over issues like this would be the surest way to ensure the UK's territorial integrity is called into question.Charles said:
Yes it is subject to QMV - but if Ireland won't sign a deal then it would have to leave the EU.williamglenn said:
Ireland's vote is only technically needed to extend negotiations. Approval of the deal is subject to QMV.Charles said:
Doesn't that strengthen May's hand?williamglenn said:
The UK government's current position is that this question can be magicked away with technology. Will that stand up to reality?
It increases the cost of failure for the EU - another factor encouraging them to act rationally in negotiations
You've really never done much negotiating, have you?0 -
Yesterday's Mori poll showed the route back to UKIP for relevance, over 60% wanted May to get back control of immigration in the Brexit talks and over 40% wanted the EU to make no more budget contributions to the EU. If May compromises on that in any way, which she will almost certainly have to go get any form of trade deal at all from the EU, then UKIP will be able to capitalise0
-
So were (some of) mine, and they lived in Yorkshire and Westmorland.SouthamObserver said:
My ancestors were - destitute, deprived of any democratic representation and held in contempt by the protestant ascendency.Alanbrooke said:
I'm surprised to find you were alive in the 1840sSouthamObserver said:
That was the right wing, English nationalist, protestant ascendency, of which I am not part ;-)Alanbrooke said:
it will be a long waitTwistedFireStopper said:
I now realise I should have voted to remain to keep the Irish happy.Alanbrooke said:@ Southam
oh the joyful inconsistency
two days ago it was the english caused Brexit, now it's the british
SO and I have been on this board for many years and he still hasnt apologised to me for causing the potato famine.
git.
In the 1840s, nearly all the country was deprived of any democratic representation and given little consideration in the political process.0 -
Telegraph not sitting on the fence over incident in Paris..
Radicalised Muslim known to security agencies shot dead in 'terror' incident at Paris airport - miles from where Duke and Duchess are due to meet
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/18/man-shot-killed-security-forces-paris-airport-attempting-seize/0 -
F1: still no points spread market. So, that'll likely end up folded into the first pre-qualifying piece.0
-
We are all agreeing, I believe.another_richard said:
And when did Ireland get this idea that the UK had signed up to EverCloserUnion, something which British governments have never accepted.SouthamObserver said:
Irish lot of problems.Sean_F said:
Of course not. But who says they did?SouthamObserver said:
Yep, we agree: Irish leaders should not have put their faith in the Brits.Sean_F said:
Countriesreferendum.SouthamObserver said:
Voting learned.Sean_F said:
I don't understand what you think we've done recently that's so horrible to the Irish.SouthamObserver said:
It does and I agree that the Irish were very unwise to believe that the Brits had changed.Sean_F said:
It's a interests.SouthamObserver said:
Yep - learned.Sean_F said:
After Britain.Alanbrooke said:
theyve been let down by the left wing, by the centre, by the irish too. Nobody has a monopoly on screwing up.SouthamObserver said:
My establishment.Alanbrooke said:
good to see your views areSouthamObserver said:
ThenCharles said:
We weren'tSouthamObserver said:
Whatever happened to the Anglo-Irish?Charles said:
You may have the EU as compensation)SouthamObserver said:
Along with us somehow bestriding the world with Dong by Ireland.Charles said:
The implication is that if there is "no dealative on offer...FF43 said:
Ireland to avoid.Charles said:
Doesn't that strengthen May's hand?williamglenn said:
The Brexit vote - which was a huge blow for Ireland - happened in the 21st century, of course.
Whetherbanks back.
In outsiders.
In Brexit.
Perhaps if the Irish government had rejected the Treaties of Nice and Lisbon after its own people had voted against them in referenda we wouldn't be in the current situation.
0 -
Mr. Herdson, quite.
0 -
Which is why - going back to Mr Brooke's original point - I (we) do not owe him an apology for the Irish potato famine :-)david_herdson said:
So were (some of) mine, and they lived in Yorkshire and Westmorland.SouthamObserver said:
My ancestors were - destitute, deprived of any democratic representation and held in contempt by the protestant ascendency.Alanbrooke said:
I'm surprised to find you were alive in the 1840sSouthamObserver said:
That was the right wing, English nationalist, protestant ascendency, of which I am not part ;-)Alanbrooke said:
it will be a long waitTwistedFireStopper said:
I now realise I should have voted to remain to keep the Irish happy.Alanbrooke said:@ Southam
oh the joyful inconsistency
two days ago it was the english caused Brexit, now it's the british
SO and I have been on this board for many years and he still hasnt apologised to me for causing the potato famine.
git.
In the 1840s, nearly all the country was deprived of any democratic representation and given little consideration in the political process.
0 -
He's not mentally I'll?FrancisUrquhart said:Telegraph not sitting on the fence over incident in Paris..
Radicalised Muslim known to security agencies shot dead in 'terror' incident at Paris airport - miles from where Duke and Duchess are due to meet
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/18/man-shot-killed-security-forces-paris-airport-attempting-seize/0 -
I'm with you. Brexit isn't going to solve a single real problem we have. It's going to make several real problems we do have that much harder to solve as well as introducing new ones. But I am sympathetic to those that felt left behind and voted to make their voices heard. It's all very well us liberals saying our way is superior, but we were the ones leaving those people behind.SouthamObserver said:
Yep - I have very different views of those who voted for Brexit and those who led the Brexit campaign. I fear that the latter are going to let the former down big-time.
I totally get why Leave won - huge numbers of people feel that they have no real stake in the country as it currently functions (which is why Scottish independence is so attractive too, of course). What I don't see is how Brexit will change anything, except for the worse at the margins. It doesn't have to be like that, but the Hard Brexit path we have embarked on means that it probably will be.0 -
The fact that it's not creating the drama it would have done a couple of years ago is quite stark. The French Police look really tooled up.FrancisUrquhart said:Telegraph not sitting on the fence over incident in Paris..
Radicalised Muslim known to security agencies shot dead in 'terror' incident at Paris airport - miles from where Duke and Duchess are due to meet
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/18/man-shot-killed-security-forces-paris-airport-attempting-seize/0 -
Not anymore...nunu said:
He's not mentally I'll?FrancisUrquhart said:Telegraph not sitting on the fence over incident in Paris..
Radicalised Muslim known to security agencies shot dead in 'terror' incident at Paris airport - miles from where Duke and Duchess are due to meet
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/18/man-shot-killed-security-forces-paris-airport-attempting-seize/0 -
Or more to the point the UK to make no more budget contributions to the EUHYUFD said:Yesterday's Mori poll showed the route back to UKIP for relevance, over 60% wanted May to get back control of immigration in the Brexit talks and over 40% wanted the EU to make no more budget contributions to the EU. If May compromises on that in any way, which she will almost certainly have to go get any form of trade deal at all from the EU, then UKIP will be able to capitalise
0 -
I don't think it is that difficult. There is a differnece between immigration, the process, and immigrants, the people. The number of people who have problems with the latter is far, far smaller than the number who are concerned about the former. The idea that a vote to leave the EU was mainly about a dislike of foreigners is one that was, and still is, being put about by people who would much rather remain inside it.TwistedFireStopper said:
That was my view as well, but I do recognise that a lot of it was about immigration. The key is not to let it become an anti-foreigner steam roller. That's the difficult bit!Sean_F said:
Everyone will have had different priorities. I voted Leave because I disliked the way the EU was becoming a State, and the way that every problem is treated as a pretext for More Europe. And, I saw no willingness on its part to change.SouthamObserver said:
Yep - I have very different views of those who voted for Brexit and those who led the Brexit campaign. I fear that the latter are going to let the former down big-time.TwistedFireStopper said:
Exactly. I know you're passionate about this, and I could vote for a Joff Labour Party. We just all have different views on Brexit. It might be great, it might be terrible. Hell, it might not even happen, but the fact that enough of the population got off their arses to at least have a say should be celebrated, and acknowledged that it wasn't working to its potential for Britain.SouthamObserver said:
QEDTwistedFireStopper said:
'cos I don't give a flying feck about them.SouthamObserver said:
Then why didn't you?TwistedFireStopper said:
Because Brexit is bad for them.SouthamObserver said:
Why on earth would you have done that?TwistedFireStopper said:
I now realise I should have voted to remain to keep the Irish happy.Alanbrooke said:@ Southam
oh the joyful inconsistency
two days ago it was the english caused Brexit, now it's the british
That's probably true of the Union as well.
I totally get why Leave won - huge numbers of people feel that they have no real stake in the country as it currently functions (which is why Scottish independence is so attractive too, of course). What I don't see is how Brexit will change anything, except for the worse at the margins. It doesn't have to be like that, but the Hard Brexit path we have embarked on means that it probably will be.0 -
It was viewed differently back then. MPs, of the time, would have viewed themselves as virtual representatives of the whole community and leaders of their its interests, and acting altogether in Parliament in the national interest.david_herdson said:
So were (some of) mine, and they lived in Yorkshire and Westmorland.SouthamObserver said:
My ancestors were - destitute, deprived of any democratic representation and held in contempt by the protestant ascendency.Alanbrooke said:
I'm surprised to find you were alive in the 1840sSouthamObserver said:
That was the right wing, English nationalist, protestant ascendency, of which I am not part ;-)Alanbrooke said:
it will be a long waitTwistedFireStopper said:
I now realise I should have voted to remain to keep the Irish happy.Alanbrooke said:@ Southam
oh the joyful inconsistency
two days ago it was the english caused Brexit, now it's the british
SO and I have been on this board for many years and he still hasnt apologised to me for causing the potato famine.
git.
In the 1840s, nearly all the country was deprived of any democratic representation and given little consideration in the political process.
"Democracy" was a bit of a dirty word associated with revolutions.0 -
"I'm not so sure about that. For Gisela Stuart, David Owen, John Cleese, and Stodge, they had similar reasons".
Is this a new Monty Python tribute band?
0 -
I think in at least one case we are already beyond the picture stage, but otherwise +1. This is political betting. If not about political betting, post about politics, or post about betting. Or go somewhere elseOllyT said:
There are 2 or 3 posters on PB who would be better off on Facebook bragging about how much they earn, what brilliant hotels they staying in and how much they have just spent on a bottle of wine. It's only a matter of time before they start posting their holiday pics. I assume they think everyone else is interested either that or it's a not-so-subtle way of saying my opinion is more important because look how successful I am.malcolmg said:
Arrogance and deriding other people does not make me think you would be any good. Keep waving that silver spoon. Even Trump can make millions when he is handed Daddy's money to start off.Charles said:
Wouldn't pretend to be an expert. But big companies hire me to negotiate on their behalf. Given that I'm not cheap (I don't get out of bed for less than $1 million) I guess they think I add value.malcolmg said:
No doubt you will be an expert, all that ordering about of footmen and butlers with your silver spoon honed your skills, add a dash of pomposity and hey voila.Charles said:
That's why we won't play the card. Everyone knows it exists, that's all that matterswilliamglenn said:
Playing brinkmanship over issues like this would be the surest way to ensure the UK's territorial integrity is called into question.Charles said:
Yes it is subject to QMV - but if Ireland won't sign a deal then it would have to leave the EU.williamglenn said:
Ireland's vote is only technically needed to extend negotiations. Approval of the deal is subject to QMV.Charles said:
Doesn't that strengthen May's hand?williamglenn said:
The UK government's current position is that this question can be magicked away with technology. Will that stand up to reality?
It increases the cost of failure for the EU - another factor encouraging them to act rationally in negotiations
You've really never done much negotiating, have you?
0 -
Problems of Ireland's own making.SouthamObserver said:
Irish political leaders clearly believed until it was far too late that the UK was a permanent member of the EU and made a lot of decisions about the trajectory of the country's economy as a result that are now going to cause Ireland a lot of problems.Sean_F said:
Of course not. But who says they did?SouthamObserver said:
Yep, we agree: Irish leaders should not have put their faith in the Brits.Sean_F said:
Countriesreferendum.SouthamObserver said:
Voting learned.Sean_F said:
I don't understand what you think we've done recently that's so horrible to the Irish.SouthamObserver said:
It does and I agree that the Irish were very unwise to believe that the Brits had changed.Sean_F said:
It's a interests.SouthamObserver said:
Yep - learned.Sean_F said:
After Britain.Alanbrooke said:
theyve been let down by the left wing, by the centre, by the irish too. Nobody has a monopoly on screwing up.SouthamObserver said:
My establishment.Alanbrooke said:
good to see your views areSouthamObserver said:
ThenCharles said:
We weren'tSouthamObserver said:
Whatever happened to the Anglo-Irish?Charles said:
You may have the EU as compensation)SouthamObserver said:
Along with us somehow bestriding the world with Dong by Ireland.Charles said:
The implication is that if there is "no dealative on offer...FF43 said:
Ireland to avoid.Charles said:
Doesn't that strengthen May's hand?williamglenn said:
The Brexit vote - which was a huge blow for Ireland - happened in the 21st century, of course.
Whetherbanks back.
In outsiders.
In Brexit.0 -
No, it did not. It was as a result of "easy money" that happened all over the developed world. Banks lent well beyond what they should have and the Irish government had to put in a €76bn bailout fund.Alanbrooke said:
their decision to break the link with sterling and join the ERM in 1979would sort of say different the biggest economic problem they had in 2008 came as a result of the Euro and had nothing to do with the UKSouthamObserver said:
Irish political leaders ... to cause Ireland a lot of problems.Sean_F said:
Of course not. But who says they did?SouthamObserver said:
Yep, we agree: Irish leaders should not have put their faith in the Brits.Sean_F said:
Countriesreferendum.SouthamObserver said:
Voting learned.Sean_F said:
I don't understand ..to the Irish.SouthamObserver said:
It ...Brits had changed.Sean_F said:
It's a interests.SouthamObserver said:
Yep - learned.Sean_F said:
After Britain.Alanbrooke said:
theyve been let down by the left wing, by the centre, by the irish too. Nobody has a monopoly on screwing up.SouthamObserver said:
My establishment.Alanbrooke said:
good to see your views areSouthamObserver said:
ThenCharles said:
We weren'tSouthamObserver said:
Whatever happened to the Anglo-Irish?Charles said:
You may have the EU as compensation)SouthamObserver said:
Dong by Ireland.Charles said:
The Brexit vote - which was a huge blow for Ireland - happened in the 21st century, of course.
Whetherbanks back.
In outsiders.
In Brexit.
Ireland itself did not run a deficit. In fact, the budgets were in surplus. Of course, the subsequent downturn reduced tax revenues. But this has now been reversed and it is one of the fastest growing economies in the EU.0 -
Ireland joined the Euro, and we didn't, in 1999. That fact should have alerted their leaders to the fact that each country might have different views on how their relationship with the EU would develop.Alanbrooke said:
their decision to break the link with sterling and join the ERM in 1979would sort of say differentSouthamObserver said:
Irish political leaders clearly believed until it was far too late that the UK was a permanent member of the EU and made a lot of decisions about the trajectory of the country's economy as a result that are now going to cause Ireland a lot of problems.Sean_F said:
Of course not. But who says they did?SouthamObserver said:
Yep, we agree: Irish leaders should not have put their faith in the Brits.Sean_F said:
Countriesreferendum.SouthamObserver said:
Voting learned.Sean_F said:
I don't understand what you think we've done recently that's so horrible to the Irish.SouthamObserver said:
It does and I agree that the Irish were very unwise to believe that the Brits had changed.Sean_F said:
It's a interests.SouthamObserver said:
Yep - learned.Sean_F said:
After Britain.Alanbrooke said:SouthamObserver said:
My establishment.Alanbrooke said:
good to see your views areSouthamObserver said:
ThenCharles said:
We weren'tSouthamObserver said:
Whatever happened to the Anglo-Irish?Charles said:
You may have the EU as compensation)SouthamObserver said:
Along with us somehow bestriding the world with Dong by Ireland.Charles said:
The implication is that if there is "no dealative on offer...FF43 said:
Ireland to avoid.Charles said:
Doesn't that strengthen May's hand?williamglenn said:
The Brexit vote
Whetherbanks back.
In outsiders.
In Brexit.
the biggest economic problem they had in 2008 came as a result of the Euro and had nothing to do with the UK0 -
I think its important for SO to recognise that Brexit happened because if unlimited immigration allowed in by Blair.0
-
Mr. B2, you missed off the Second Punic War.0
-
Its not Brexit or the British government which have put the Good Friday Agreement at risk but rather the EU obsession with EverCloserUnion.SouthamObserver said:
We are all agreeing, I believe.another_richard said:
And when did Ireland get this idea that the UK had signed up to EverCloserUnion, something which British governments have never accepted.SouthamObserver said:
Irish lot of problems.Sean_F said:
Of course not. But who says they did?SouthamObserver said:
Yep, we agree: Irish leaders should not have put their faith in the Brits.Sean_F said:
Countriesreferendum.SouthamObserver said:
Voting learned.Sean_F said:
I don't understand what you think we've done recently that's so horrible to the Irish.SouthamObserver said:
It does and I agree that the Irish were very unwise to believe that the Brits had changed.Sean_F said:
It's a interests.SouthamObserver said:
Yep - learned.Sean_F said:
After Britain.Alanbrooke said:
theyve been let down by the left wing, by the centre, by the irish too. Nobody has a monopoly on screwing up.SouthamObserver said:
My establishment.
The Brexit vote - which was a huge blow for Ireland - happened in the 21st century, of course.
Whetherbanks back.
In outsiders.
In Brexit.
Perhaps if the Irish government had rejected the Treaties of Nice and Lisbon after its own people had voted against them in referenda we wouldn't be in the current situation.
If the EU had remained as it was in 1999 Brexit wouldn't be happening.0 -
Ha!stjohn said:
"I'm not so sure about that. For Gisela Stuart, David Owen, John Cleese, and Stodge, they had similar reasons".
Is this a new Monty Python tribute band?
I was trying to cite notable eurosceptic examples on the centre/centre-left, without whom Leave would have lost.0 -
The EU view is that it's those who disagree with their agenda that have the problem, not them.another_richard said:
Its not Brexit or the British government which have put the Good Friday Agreement at risk but rather the EU obsession with EverCloserUnion.SouthamObserver said:
We are all agreeing, I believe.another_richard said:
And when did Ireland get this idea that the UK had signed up to EverCloserUnion, something which British governments have never accepted.SouthamObserver said:
Irish lot of problems.Sean_F said:
Of course not. But who says they did?SouthamObserver said:
Yep, we agree: Irish leaders should not have put their faith in the Brits.Sean_F said:
Countriesreferendum.SouthamObserver said:
Voting learned.Sean_F said:
I don't understand what you think we've done recently that's so horrible to the Irish.SouthamObserver said:
It does and I agree that the Irish were very unwise to believe that the Brits had changed.Sean_F said:
It's a interests.SouthamObserver said:
Yep - learned.Sean_F said:
After Britain.Alanbrooke said:
theyve been let down by the left wing, by the centre, by the irish too. Nobody has a monopoly on screwing up.SouthamObserver said:
My establishment.
The Brexit vote - which was a huge blow for Ireland - happened in the 21st century, of course.
Whetherbanks back.
In outsiders.
In Brexit.
Perhaps if the Irish government had rejected the Treaties of Nice and Lisbon after its own people had voted against them in referenda we wouldn't be in the current situation.
If the EU had remained as it was in 1999 Brexit wouldn't be happening.0 -
Yes, they would, although it didn't work that well in practice and is a good example of rationalising a moral benefit to the protection of the interests of their own class, or at least, the classes who were directly engaged in politics.Casino_Royale said:
It was viewed differently back then. MPs, of the time, would have viewed themselves as virtual representatives of the whole community and leaders of their its interests, and acting altogether in Parliament in the national interest.david_herdson said:
So were (some of) mine, and they lived in Yorkshire and Westmorland.SouthamObserver said:
My ancestors were - destitute, deprived of any democratic representation and held in contempt by the protestant ascendency.Alanbrooke said:
I'm surprised to find you were alive in the 1840sSouthamObserver said:
That was the right wing, English nationalist, protestant ascendency, of which I am not part ;-)Alanbrooke said:
it will be a long waitTwistedFireStopper said:
I now realise I should have voted to remain to keep the Irish happy.Alanbrooke said:@ Southam
oh the joyful inconsistency
two days ago it was the english caused Brexit, now it's the british
SO and I have been on this board for many years and he still hasnt apologised to me for causing the potato famine.
git.
In the 1840s, nearly all the country was deprived of any democratic representation and given little consideration in the political process.
"Democracy" was a bit of a dirty word associated with revolutions.0 -
Yes of course I do not promote welching like some on here re England and the EU. How you get that a "United Kingdom " can still exist when it is no longer "United" beats me but there we are .CornishBlue said:
Oh not this nonsense again.malcolmg said:
No matter how you cut it or try to obfuscate, Scotland owns a share and a share of all the assets held within it. As part of all the other assets of the UK it has a value.Charles said:
Technically you don't - it's 100% owned by HMT.malcolmg said:
Scotland already own part of it you dumpling.CarlottaVance said:Broon to the rescue!
https://twitter.com/PolhomeEditor/status/843006167836254209
Bad idea. If Scotland leaves the United Kingdom, they'd claim the 'Scotland' bit, however nonsensical that might be. If you want to change the name, call it 'Bank of United Kingdom'.....not that I'd bother.....
But in a negotiated settlement you'd have an argument for a pro rata share of its net asset value. As of 30 September that was £3.4 billion. I wouldn't have thought that £350 million is the most important thing for you to focus on, but each to their own...
If the UK was being dissolved you may have an argument, but it would not be upon Scotland leaving - the UK would still exist and Scotland would be the only new state. Leaving a country absolutely does not mean that the leaving part is entitled to the country's assets.
Of course if you do insist on going down the line of wanting 8% or whatever of UK assets then you must also take 8% of the liabilities. AGREED?0 -
Morning GIN, you did not foolishly think hte Tories would let any of the powers get out of Westminsters grasp. Unless it is useless it will not be devolved.GIN1138 said:
Agreed.Casino_Royale said:I might be in a minority on the Right here who think Gordon Brown is onto something with his comments.
But, I have been saying on here for some months that Holyrood should gain EU powers post Brexit, as has Michael Gove.
I always assumed that Brexit would mean bringing back many powers not just to Westminster but to the devolved parliaments and would essentially bring in a new constitutional settlement for the UK for the 21st century.0 -
One very real problem we have that it will address is the buck-passing politicians won't be able to say "because Brussels ..." to problems anymore.FF43 said:
I'm with you. Brexit isn't going to solve a single real problem we have. It's going to make several real problems we do have that much harder to solve as well as introducing new ones. But I am sympathetic to those that felt left behind and voted to make their voices heard. It's all very well us liberals saying our way is superior, but we were the ones leaving those people behind.SouthamObserver said:
Yep - I have very different views of those who voted for Brexit and those who led the Brexit campaign. I fear that the latter are going to let the former down big-time.
I totally get why Leave won - huge numbers of people feel that they have no real stake in the country as it currently functions (which is why Scottish independence is so attractive too, of course). What I don't see is how Brexit will change anything, except for the worse at the margins. It doesn't have to be like that, but the Hard Brexit path we have embarked on means that it probably will be.0 -
If that was indeed the case then a soft Brexit or the EEA should be possible because there isn't a majority against immigration. Regarding Gisela Stuart, you should really count her as a Tory otherwise she couldn't have won Edgbaston four times.Casino_Royale said:
I'm not so sure about that. For Gisela Stuart, David Owen, John Cleese, and Stodge, they had similar reasons.SouthamObserver said:
I may be wrong, but I suspect that your Leave vote was not a typical one. I always saw the referendum as being a lot more about immigration. And that was (and is) an issue because so many parts of the country feel neglected and rejected.Sean_F said:
Everyone will have had different priorities. I voted Leave because I disliked the way the EU was becoming a State, and the way that every problem is treated as a pretext for More Europe. And, I saw no willingness on its part to change.SouthamObserver said:
Yep -TwistedFireStopper said:
Exactly.SouthamObserver said:
QEDTwistedFireStopper said:
'cos I don't give a flying feck about them.SouthamObserver said:
Then why didn't you?TwistedFireStopper said:
Because Brexit is bad for them.SouthamObserver said:
Why on earth would you have done that?TwistedFireStopper said:
I now realise I should have voted to remain to keep the Irish happy.Alanbrooke said:@ Southam
oh the joyful inconsistency
two days ago it was the english caused Brexit, now it's the british
I suspect that about 35% of the vote for Leave would have been achieved if they'd even failed to mention immigration once, or even argued for more of it, and about 15-20% extra votes on top of that were achieved through the focus on immigration in the final month.
And even those numbers may be an exaggeration.
Of course, it has since been characterised as a vote all about immigration, because that's what brought it across the line, but that doesn't mean that characterisation is right.0 -
Toom Tabard can nevr resist a dig at ScotlandCarlottaVance said:
And the Scots SNP.....TwistedFireStopper said:
I now realise I should have voted to remain to keep the Irish happy.Alanbrooke said:@ Southam
oh the joyful inconsistency
two days ago it was the english caused Brexit, now it's the british0 -
The United Kingdom will still exist once part of northern Britain has left in the same way as the United Kingdom still existed once part of southern Ireland had left.malcolmg said:
Yes of course I do not promote welching like some on here re England and the EU. How you get that a "United Kingdom " can still exist when it is no longer "United" beats me but there we are .CornishBlue said:
Oh not this nonsense again.malcolmg said:
No matter how you cut it or try to obfuscate, Scotland owns a share and a share of all the assets held within it. As part of all the other assets of the UK it has a value.Charles said:
Technically you don't - it's 100% owned by HMT.malcolmg said:
Scotland already own part of it you dumpling.CarlottaVance said:Broon to the rescue!
https://twitter.com/PolhomeEditor/status/843006167836254209
Bad idea. If Scotland leaves the United Kingdom, they'd claim the 'Scotland' bit, however nonsensical that might be. If you want to change the name, call it 'Bank of United Kingdom'.....not that I'd bother.....
But in a negotiated settlement you'd have an argument for a pro rata share of its net asset value. As of 30 September that was £3.4 billion. I wouldn't have thought that £350 million is the most important thing for you to focus on, but each to their own...
If the UK was being dissolved you may have an argument, but it would not be upon Scotland leaving - the UK would still exist and Scotland would be the only new state. Leaving a country absolutely does not mean that the leaving part is entitled to the country's assets.
Of course if you do insist on going down the line of wanting 8% or whatever of UK assets then you must also take 8% of the liabilities. AGREED?0 -
Unless Northern Ireland left too it would stay the UK, otherwise it would become England and Wales. If Northern Ireland joined the Republic as a united Ireland it would lose the monarchy, even the SNP have said an independent Scotland would keep the monarchy as it did under the Stuarts (Cromwell excepted)malcolmg said:
Yes of course I do not promote welching like some on here re England and the EU. How you get that a "United Kingdom " can still exist when it is no longer "United" beats me but there we are .CornishBlue said:
Oh not this nonsense again.malcolmg said:
No matter how you cut it or try to obfuscate, Scotland owns a share and a share of all the assets held within it. As part of all the other assets of the UK it has a value.Charles said:
Technically you don't - it's 100% owned by HMT.malcolmg said:
Scotland already own part of it you dumpling.CarlottaVance said:Broon to the rescue!
https://twitter.com/PolhomeEditor/status/843006167836254209
Bad idea. If Scotland leaves the United Kingdom, they'd claim the 'Scotland' bit, however nonsensical that might be. If you want to change the name, call it 'Bank of United Kingdom'.....not that I'd bother.....
But in a negotiated settlement you'd have an argument for a pro rata share of its net asset value. As of 30 September that was £3.4 billion. I wouldn't have thought that £350 million is the most important thing for you to focus on, but each to their own...
If the UK was being dissolved you may have an argument, but it would not be upon Scotland leaving - the UK would still exist and Scotland would be the only new state. Leaving a country absolutely does not mean that the leaving part is entitled to the country's assets.
Of course if you do insist on going down the line of wanting 8% or whatever of UK assets then you must also take 8% of the liabilities. AGREED?0 -
Yep. And we are not coming up with any solutions now, either. If Corbyn is the best that labour has then it is exactly where it deserves to be.FF43 said:
I'm with you. Brexit isn't going to solve a single real problem we have. It's going to make several real problems we do have that much harder to solve as well as introducing new ones. But I am sympathetic to those that felt left behind and voted to make their voices heard. It's all very well us liberals saying our way is superior, but we were the ones leaving those people behind.SouthamObserver said:
Yep - I have very different views of those who voted for Brexit and those who led the Brexit campaign. I fear that the latter are going to let the former down big-time.
I totally get why Leave won - huge numbers of people feel that they have no real stake in the country as it currently functions (which is why Scottish independence is so attractive too, of course). What I don't see is how Brexit will change anything, except for the worse at the margins. It doesn't have to be like that, but the Hard Brexit path we have embarked on means that it probably will be.
0 -
And trains, engineering (especially space stuff), cricket, medieval history, food and drink, the footer, rugby, Sunil's Mum's garden competitions, finance, F1, tennis, the law, Byzantium and piracy in the 17th century. With those additions I think Mr. B2 has a point.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. B2, you missed off the Second Punic War.
0 -
Nor Scottish voters , leopards never change their spots.SouthamObserver said:
Yep, we agree: Irish leaders should not have put their faith in the Brits.Sean_F said:
Countries should act in their own best interests. You might just as well argue that the interests of France or Spain should have taken priority, when we voted in the EU referendum.SouthamObserver said:
Voting learned.Sean_F said:
I don't understand what you think we've done recently that's so horrible to the Irish.SouthamObserver said:
It does and I agree that the Irish were very unwise to believe that the Brits had changed.Sean_F said:
It's a foreign country. We have no moral obligation to act in their best interests, any more than they have a moral obligation to act in our best interests.SouthamObserver said:
Yep - they should have realised that the Brits can never, ever be trusted to act in Ireland's best interests. That was undoubtedly naïve. I suspect that the lesson has finally been learned.Sean_F said:
After Britain.Alanbrooke said:
theyve been let down by the left wing, by the centre, by the irish too. Nobody has a monopoly on screwing up.SouthamObserver said:
My establishment.Alanbrooke said:
good to see your views areSouthamObserver said:
ThenCharles said:
We weren'tSouthamObserver said:
Whatever happened to the Anglo-Irish?Charles said:
You may have the EU as compensation)SouthamObserver said:
Along with us somehow bestriding the world with Dong by Ireland.Charles said:
The implication is that if there is "no dealative on offer...FF43 said:
Ireland to avoid.Charles said:
Doesn't that strengthen May's hand?williamglenn said:
The Brexit vote - which was a huge blow for Ireland - happened in the 21st century, of course.
Whetherbanks back.
In outsiders.
In any case, I expect the CTA will remain in place, and trade with Ireland will remain extensive, post Brexit.0 -
I would say an intelligent sensible person unlike most of the frothers on hereanother_richard said:
Careful now.Pulpstar said:Has Brown actually come up with a good idea ?
A FULLY federal United Kingdom might just be the solution.
Or someone might call you an English Nationalist.0 -
Oh, I don't know I'd go that far. We're a community of people who share a common interest, so of course that's what we mainly talk about. If one of us sometimes wants to chat about something else, though, that's quite refreshing as a light-hearted change, just as though we were actually meeting socially. It fills us out as real people rather than just mouthpieces for points of view. I don't mind SeanT rhapsodying about Hotel Wonderful in Kaula Lumpur or whatever, if he doesn't go on and on about it.IanB2 said:
I think in at least one case we are already beyond the picture stage, but otherwise +1. This is political betting. If not about political betting, post about politics, or post about betting. Or go somewhere elseOllyT said:
There are 2 or 3 posters on PB who would be better off on Facebook bragging about how much they earn, what brilliant hotels they staying in and how much they have just spent on a bottle of wine. It's only a matter of time before they start posting their holiday pics. I assume they think everyone else is interested either that or it's a not-so-subtle way of saying my opinion is more important because look how successful I am.
Duh, Radio Nottingham has just rung to say they'd like to interview m in minutes on Osborne and the Standard. Need to decide what I actually think about that - think I'm more worried about politicians running newspapers than about the issue of representing Tatton properly, which is up to voters there.
0 -
If PB bans any topic not involving political betting or politics, it'll be very very quiet!HurstLlama said:
And trains, engineering (especially space stuff), cricket, medieval history, food and drink, the footer, rugby, Sunil's Mum's garden competitions, finance, F1, tennis, the law, Byzantium and piracy in the 17th century. With those additions I think Mr. B2 has a point.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. B2, you missed off the Second Punic War.
0 -
Oh, no. They will.Philip_Thompson said:
One very real problem we have that it will address is the buck-passing politicians won't be able to say "because Brussels ..." to problems anymore.FF43 said:
I'm with you. Brexit isn't going to solve a single real problem we have. It's going to make several real problems we do have that much harder to solve as well as introducing new ones. But I am sympathetic to those that felt left behind and voted to make their voices heard. It's all very well us liberals saying our way is superior, but we were the ones leaving those people behind.SouthamObserver said:
Yep - I have very different views of those who voted for Brexit and those who led the Brexit campaign. I fear that the latter are going to let the former down big-time.
I totally get why Leave won - huge numbers of people feel that they have no real stake in the country as it currently functions (which is why Scottish independence is so attractive too, of course). What I don't see is how Brexit will change anything, except for the worse at the margins. It doesn't have to be like that, but the Hard Brexit path we have embarked on means that it probably will be.0 -
We Brits (or me, anyway) always regard Ireland as different, but not really foreign in the way that France is.
De Valera was a NY-born convert to the cause of Irish nationalism. He'd have never joined the EU, and his idea of little Irish boys and girls dancing around the Maypole singing in Irish before dashing off to Mass every day was unhinged. And I say that as a Catholic Brit with Irish antecedents, married to an Irish woman from Cork,
My great-grandfather is still waiting for an apology for the Famine from my English great-grandfather.
Compared wit the Irish, I look upon the Scots as being dour cousins who can't sing so well. The Welsh win that contest.
The Irish border was porous before 1975 and will continue to be so.
Obviously I have a totally neutral viewpoint and an extensive knowledge of history. And if you believe that, I have an interesting financial proposition to put to you. But not Mr Charles, as he's a black Proddy.0 -
I think Brexit won because of the financial crash and the austerity that resulted from it. That's what made immigration the huge issue that it has become.nunu said:I think its important for SO to recognise that Brexit happened because if unlimited immigration allowed in by Blair.
0 -
Morning Malc - I do expect powers will be devolved as long as there is goodwill - the whole process will take many years to evolve but I cannot see Nicola's referendum taking place before 2021. I am interested to know if you agree that Nicola has jumped the gun and would have been prudent to wait at least until the end of Brexit talks and then demand the referendummalcolmg said:
Morning GIN, you did not foolishly think hte Tories would let any of the powers get out of Westminsters grasp. Unless it is useless it will not be devolved.GIN1138 said:
Agreed.Casino_Royale said:I might be in a minority on the Right here who think Gordon Brown is onto something with his comments.
But, I have been saying on here for some months that Holyrood should gain EU powers post Brexit, as has Michael Gove.
I always assumed that Brexit would mean bringing back many powers not just to Westminster but to the devolved parliaments and would essentially bring in a new constitutional settlement for the UK for the 21st century.0 -
Joanna Cherry is using a lot of Theresa May's lines on Sky at the moment... "Free trade with Scotland is not just in Scotland's interests, it's also in the interests of the rest of the UK."0
-
Mr. Glenn, the SNP arguing that the UK leaving the EU is terrible, and then arguing Scotland would be in the position of the UK if it voted to leave, is not very consistent.0
-
I could have guessed one of the turnips would pop up , you cannot be united alone you halfwit.Philip_Thompson said:
The United Kingdom will still exist once part of northern Britain has left in the same way as the United Kingdom still existed once part of southern Ireland had left.malcolmg said:
Yes of course I do not promote welching like some on here re England and the EU. How you get that a "United Kingdom " can still exist when it is no longer "United" beats me but there we are .CornishBlue said:
Oh not this nonsense again.malcolmg said:
No matter how you cut it or try to obfuscate, Scotland owns a share and a share of all the assets held within it. As part of all the other assets of the UK it has a value.Charles said:
Technically you don't - it's 100% owned by HMT.malcolmg said:
Scotland already own part of it you dumpling.CarlottaVance said:Broon to the rescue!
https://twitter.com/PolhomeEditor/status/843006167836254209
Bad idea. If Scotland leaves the United Kingdom, they'd claim the 'Scotland' bit, however nonsensical that might be. If you want to change the name, call it 'Bank of United Kingdom'.....not that I'd bother.....
But in a negotiated settlement you'd have an argument for a pro rata share of its net asset value. As of 30 September that was £3.4 billion. I wouldn't have thought that £350 million is the most important thing for you to focus on, but each to their own...
If the UK was being dissolved you may have an argument, but it would not be upon Scotland leaving - the UK would still exist and Scotland would be the only new state. Leaving a country absolutely does not mean that the leaving part is entitled to the country's assets.
Of course if you do insist on going down the line of wanting 8% or whatever of UK assets then you must also take 8% of the liabilities. AGREED?0 -
True but the Irish government supported that agenda.Casino_Royale said:
The EU view is that it's those who disagree with their agenda that have the problem, not them.another_richard said:
Its not Brexit or the British government which have put the Good Friday Agreement at risk but rather the EU obsession with EverCloserUnion.SouthamObserver said:
We are all agreeing, I believe.another_richard said:
And when did Ireland get this idea that the UK had signed up to EverCloserUnion, something which British governments have never accepted.SouthamObserver said:
Irish lot of problems.Sean_F said:
Of course not. But who says they did?SouthamObserver said:
Yep, we agree: Irish leaders should not have put their faith in the Brits.Sean_F said:
Countriesreferendum.SouthamObserver said:
Voting learned.Sean_F said:
I don't understand what you think we've done recently that's so horrible to the Irish.SouthamObserver said:
It does and I agree that the Irish were very unwise to believe that the Brits had changed.Sean_F said:
It's a interests.SouthamObserver said:
Yep - learned.Sean_F said:
After Britain.Alanbrooke said:
theyve been let down by the left wing, by the centre, by the irish too. Nobody has a monopoly on screwing up.SouthamObserver said:
My establishment.
The Brexit vote - which was a huge blow for Ireland - happened in the 21st century, of course.
Whetherbanks back.
In outsiders.
In Brexit.
Perhaps if the Irish government had rejected the Treaties of Nice and Lisbon after its own people had voted against them in referenda we wouldn't be in the current situation.
If the EU had remained as it was in 1999 Brexit wouldn't be happening.
If when the Treaty of Nice was rejected in a referendum it had said "The EU is proceeding too fast and too far against the wishes of the people we will put things on hold for ten years" things would be different now.
But the Irish government was willing to put at risk the Good Friday Agreement with its support of the EU's EverCloserUnion.
0 -
The SNP is not arguing that the rest of the UK shouldn't change its mind about leaving the EU.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Glenn, the SNP arguing that the UK leaving the EU is terrible, and then arguing Scotland would be in the position of the UK if it voted to leave, is not very consistent.
0 -
Yes but that depends on the EU keeping free trade with the UK when May ends free movement from the EU or Scotland leaving the UK and not joining the EEAwilliamglenn said:Joanna Cherry is using a lot of Theresa May's lines on Sky at the moment... "Free trade with Scotland is not just in Scotland's interests, it's also in the interests of the rest of the UK."
0 -
I think Brexit won because of Black Wednesday.SouthamObserver said:
I think Brexit won because of the financial crash and the austerity that resulted from it. That's what made immigration the huge issue that it has become.nunu said:I think its important for SO to recognise that Brexit happened because if unlimited immigration allowed in by Blair.
Ultimately the UK is too big and too proud a nation to be in the EU but not in the Euro.0 -
Technically we are politically closer to Australia, New Zealand and Canada than Ireland as we share our Head of State with them unlike the RepublicCD13 said:We Brits (or me, anyway) always regard Ireland as different, but not really foreign in the way that France is.
De Valera was a NY-born convert to the cause of Irish nationalism. He'd have never joined the EU, and his idea of little Irish boys and girls dancing around the Maypole singing in Irish before dashing off to Mass every day was unhinged. And I say that as a Catholic Brit with Irish antecedents, married to an Irish woman from Cork,
My great-grandfather is still waiting for an apology for the Famine from my English great-grandfather.
Compared wit the Irish, I look upon the Scots as being dour cousins who can't sing so well. The Welsh win that contest.
The Irish border was porous before 1975 and will continue to be so.
Obviously I have a totally neutral viewpoint and an extensive knowledge of history. And if you believe that, I have an interesting financial proposition to put to you. But not Mr Charles, as he's a black Proddy.0 -
If Scotland leaves the union what May things about any subject whatsoever will be immaterial. She'll be out on her ear.HYUFD said:
Yes but that depends on the EU keeping free trade with the UK when May ends free movement from the EU or Scotland leaving the UK and not joining the EEAwilliamglenn said:Joanna Cherry is using a lot of Theresa May's lines on Sky at the moment... "Free trade with Scotland is not just in Scotland's interests, it's also in the interests of the rest of the UK."
-1 -
Mr. Glenn, I'd just repeat the point I made before, because it still stands.
Arguing the UK leaving the EU is horrendous, then arguing Scotland should leave the UK and comparing Scotland's position with the UK's (in regards to leaving the EU) is obviously inconsistent and illogical.0 -
So if (when) we recant you'll advocate joining the Euro?Philip_Thompson said:I think Brexit won because of Black Wednesday.
Ultimately the UK is too big and too proud a nation to be in the EU but not in the Euro.0 -
We wouldn't be united alone, we would be united with Wales and Northern Ireland.malcolmg said:
I could have guessed one of the turnips would pop up , you cannot be united alone you halfwit.Philip_Thompson said:
The United Kingdom will still exist once part of northern Britain has left in the same way as the United Kingdom still existed once part of southern Ireland had left.malcolmg said:
Yes of course I do not promote welching like some on here re England and the EU. How you get that a "United Kingdom " can still exist when it is no longer "United" beats me but there we are .CornishBlue said:
Oh not this nonsense again.malcolmg said:
No matter how you cut it or try to obfuscate, Scotland owns a share and a share of all the assets held within it. As part of all the other assets of the UK it has a value.Charles said:
Technically you don't - it's 100% owned by HMT.malcolmg said:
Scotland already own part of it you dumpling.CarlottaVance said:Broon to the rescue!
https://twitter.com/PolhomeEditor/status/843006167836254209
Bad idea. If Scotland leaves the United Kingdom, they'd claim the 'Scotland' bit, however nonsensical that might be. If you want to change the name, call it 'Bank of United Kingdom'.....not that I'd bother.....
But in a negotiated settlement you'd have an argument for a pro rata share of its net asset value. As of 30 September that was £3.4 billion. I wouldn't have thought that £350 million is the most important thing for you to focus on, but each to their own...
If the UK was being dissolved you may have an argument, but it would not be upon Scotland leaving - the UK would still exist and Scotland would be the only new state. Leaving a country absolutely does not mean that the leaving part is entitled to the country's assets.
Of course if you do insist on going down the line of wanting 8% or whatever of UK assets then you must also take 8% of the liabilities. AGREED?
Are Wales and Northern Ireland so inconsequential to you that we don't count them?0 -
Morning G, They will never devolve any of the meaningful powers that can make a difference, it is all tinkering on the edges. I think she had to go for it , Tories are treating Scottish parliament like sh**Big_G_NorthWales said:
Morning Malc - I do expect powers will be devolved as long as there is goodwill - the whole process will take many years to evolve but I cannot see Nicola's referendum taking place before 2021. I am interested to know if you agree that Nicola has jumped the gun and would have been prudent to wait at least until the end of Brexit talks and then demand the referendummalcolmg said:
Morning GIN, you did not foolishly think hte Tories would let any of the powers get out of Westminsters grasp. Unless it is useless it will not be devolved.GIN1138 said:
Agreed.Casino_Royale said:I might be in a minority on the Right here who think Gordon Brown is onto something with his comments.
But, I have been saying on here for some months that Holyrood should gain EU powers post Brexit, as has Michael Gove.
I always assumed that Brexit would mean bringing back many powers not just to Westminster but to the devolved parliaments and would essentially bring in a new constitutional settlement for the UK for the 21st century.
and May's treating Scotland like a colony will only cause more of a stir. Lots of moves to come and I doubt that position will hold.0
This discussion has been closed.