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  • More discrimination against posh boys.

    https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/836600803137843202

    A bit rich - the only difference between them is that Carswell was a boarder.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    edited February 2017

    Mr. Sandpit, hard to gauge performance, but it could be a yo-yo season.

    Of course, it's possible these are teething problems.

    Fingers crossed for them, they could really do with a break this year. The decision to be the number one team for a PU supplier was absolutely the correct one, hopefully the Japanese end of the partnership will get things sorted out soon and we can see McLaren-Honda winning races again.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    isam said:


    The residents own the roads! That's the problem I think.

    And if the council adopted the roads they would wack each resident with a hefty (four figure bill), do a half-hearted resurfacing job and then ignore said road for the next twenty years, no matter how much it breaks up in the interim.

    The residents of a new estate up the road from me have made a positive decision to keep the roads on the estate out of the council's hands because between them they think they can do a better job of maintenance for lower cost. Looking at the state of the roads around here, they are probably correct.
  • But the thickness of the people of Cornwall, who voted Leave en masse and thus denied themselves squillions in EU funding, is greater than most.
    Is the UK a net contributor to the EU or a net recipient from it?
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,255
    edited February 2017

    More discrimination against posh boys.

    https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/836600803137843202

    Child of doctors who grew up in Uganda and Kenya and finished his education at Charterhouse before going to UEA.

    Not exactly the classic 'posh boy' upbringing.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    Don't know whether to laugh or to cry at the constant stream of similar articles.

    On balance, I should really agree with @AlastairMeeks' fine post this morning that there really needs to be a functioning opposition to the government.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    It is NOT NORMAL to lose a 23,000 majority.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,396
    isam said:

    The residents own the roads! That's the problem I think.

    Jaywick's history is very closely tied to the problems it faces now, and perhaps uniquely so.

    Set up as plotlands for holiday homes in the early 20th century, it became permanent overflow housing after WWII. As is often the case with such private developments, the roads remained unadopted by the council.

    In other areas, councils have been hesitant to adopt roads as they become liable for the costs. They generally insist on having them up to a high quality *before* adoption. This leaves locals in a trap: they cannot afford to improve the infrastructure, and the council will not adopt them until they are improved.

    Add in the fact it is a floodprone area, and not somewhere you'd necesarily want to develop, then you have a perfect storm of problems.

    According to Wiki, the locals got a preservation order n Jaywick in the 1970s when the council wanted to demolish it!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaywick
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited February 2017
    Interesting to note that the Tories have effectively replaced an MP in Richmond Park with one in Copeland in recent months. It's difficult to think of two more different constituencies. Could be a pointer to what happens at the general election, with the Tories possibly losing seats like Bath, Cheltenham, Twickenham to the LDs and picking up places like Darlington, Berwickshire, Newcastle-under-Lyme from Labour.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,335
    edited February 2017

    It is not necessarily his fault if they didn't know who their MP is. Too many people are disconnected from politics (which is something that perhaps helped leave).

    I'm fairly interested in ideas that can help areas such as Jaywick, and there are too many of them in the country. Improving the roads, drains and infrastructure is certainly a good idea, as are improved public transport links and employment opportunities. However that's in the council's purview, not the MPs, and is massively costly. He does not control the purse.

    I understand you don't like Carswell. However I think you're being a little unfair. If you were the MP for Clacton you might soon find yourself getting very frustrated.

    As an example: assume the government gave £1 million to spend on deprived areas in their constituencies. Leaving aside the political issues with this, how would you spend it? Assuming 70,000 constituents, it's about £14 per person. Split around Jaywick's ~5000 population, it would be ~£200 per person. It wouldn't buy a manhole.

    What Jaywick needs is a local plan (the council's job), the money to implement the plan, and support from the locals. An MP can act as an enabler for this; he cannot do it himself.
    I don't hate him, I find him quite annoyingly smug though. You say he would enabler as an MP but he hasn't been has he? I'm sure it is difficult and frustrating, yes. I'm also sure if Farage or Nuttall had been the MP there for 12 years people arguing with me would be making the point that I am!
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    surbiton said:

    It is NOT NORMAL to lose a 23,000 majority.
    Even ignoring the particular circumstances of Richmond Park, the overturning of a large majority happens way more often than the opposition losing a seat to the government.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,559
    surbiton said:

    It is NOT NORMAL to lose a 23,000 majority.
    There was only a by-election though because the MP was a man of principles. Never going to trouble Labour....
  • Mr. Sandpit, agree entirely. Right choice, just hope the engine can, er, work.

    Mr. Eagles, I did say a few days ago that the Richmond result would be used to try and explain away the Copeland one.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    surbiton said:

    It is NOT NORMAL to lose a 23,000 majority.
    The Tory majority in Christchurch was 23,015 before they lost it in 1993.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,235
    surbiton said:

    It is NOT NORMAL to lose a 23,000 majority.
    2.2% Con/Zac -> Lab swing, about average for the parliament.

    The 92-97 Lib Dem insurgencies Newbury, Christchurch, Eastleigh were all well over 12% Con -> Lab swing.

    Labour can take no comfort from Richmond.
  • Hertsmere_PubgoerHertsmere_Pubgoer Posts: 3,476
    edited February 2017
    isam said:

    The residents own the roads! That's the problem I think.
    There are a number of resident owned roads in Brookmans Park near me.
    They all look similar to the surface of the moon and Brookmans Park certainly isn't a poor area.

  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    Im more transfixed by the literary and grammar failings. Whoever wrote this simply struggles with the English language.
  • Split infinitives are awesome.

    Capitalisation, and lack therein, is what really boils my piss.

    It is the difference between helping your Uncle Jack off a horse, and helping your uncle jack off a horse.
    Nonstandard capitalisation drives me mad. Therefore I will always refer to an Iphone, and if I were to use the term it would always be Brexit not BREXIT or (god save us) BrExit.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    This only makes them "thick" if they were of the opinion that money is the most important priority in life for Cornish people, that this trumped any other social and political concerns they had because MONEY MONEY MONEY CORNWALL MUST HAVE THE LOVELY MONEY and any issues of sovereignty or identity or whether Britain is a long-term fit for the long-term evolution of the EU go out of the window because CASH IS THE CORNISH KING OH MY GOD GIVE US ALL THE MONEY GIVE US ALL YOUR F***KING EU MONEY and whether it's been democratic for the British public to have been pushed so far along a route of European integration that has never had strong popular support really doesn't matter because GIMME GIMME GIMME oh look it's eu referendum date let's vote leave that sounds fun.

    Otherwise, they're not "thick". They're just people with different opinions and priorities to you.
    We have definitive proof in PB that the people of Cornwall are thick !
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    matt said:

    What are his achievements which so impress you?
    He eats Tories for breakfast!
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Let's not forget Cat Smith who described the Copeland result as an "incredible achievement" to keep the Tory majority to 2,000 votes.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,651
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/27/fgm-should-not-prosecuted-police-force-says-claims-best-course/

    I hesitate to repeat the discussion we had about this yesterday but it is curious that some police forces seem rather keener on pursuing allegations of sexual offences against dead people which can neither be proved nor prosecuted than on taking action against live people for sexual offences being committed today.

    A cynic might suppose that the former requires little work and gets the police lots of attention while the latter involves a lot of work and, possibly, the wrong sort of attention.
  • BojabobBojabob Posts: 642
    matt said:

    Im more transfixed by the literary and grammar failings. Whoever wrote this simply struggles with the English language.
    Yes several crimes against grammar in that posting, as we have come to expect from the Corbyn and his intellectually challenged brethren.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,396

    And if the council adopted the roads they would wack each resident with a hefty (four figure bill), do a half-hearted resurfacing job and then ignore said road for the next twenty years, no matter how much it breaks up in the interim.

    The residents of a new estate up the road from me have made a positive decision to keep the roads on the estate out of the council's hands because between them they think they can do a better job of maintenance for lower cost. Looking at the state of the roads around here, they are probably correct.
    One of the problems with such private estates is the fact that half-hearted resurfacing jobs are done. The real costs are underground. You need to dig deep and build proper drains (rainwater and sewerage), water and electricity supplies. Trunking for cable can also be added. You then need to build a proper subbase, insert kerbing and other furniture (e.g. streetlights).

    Only then do you do the blacktop. All the real work is below that and invisible.

    And all this has to be done whilst the residents have continued access to their homes, water and sewerage. It is really, really expensive to do right. But if it is done right it'll last a very long time.

    Too often the solution for both councils and locals is to chuck a new layer of tarmac on, or even just spray tar and graded material. Which then disintegrates the next winter.
  • EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,965

    Is the UK a net contributor to the EU or a net recipient from it?
    A valiant effort, but people who refused to understand this incredibly simple point before the referendum won't get it now either.
  • nunununu Posts: 6,024
    AndyJS said:

    Interesting to note that the Tories have effectively replaced an MP in Richmond Park with one in Copeland in recent months. It's difficult to think of two more different constituencies.

    Chealsea and Fulham vs.Jarrow.

    Yes interesting Tories now doing better in more working class seats then middle class ones.For every seat they lose to the libdems next time they will probably pick up two from Labour.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,235
    AndyJS said:

    Let's not forget Cat Smith who described the Copeland result as an "incredible achievement" to keep the Tory majority to 2,000 votes.
    She was not wrong. It certainly was an incredible achievement by Labour to lose a seat held for 80+ years in a by-election fight with the governing party where the influence of third parties was negligible.
    Scarcely believable for sure.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,559

    Mr. Nabavi, point of order: Cameron himself said he'd be willing to campaign to leave if he didn't get a good enough deal.

    But it's alright, because nobody believed him.

    Also, he had his fingers crossed behind his back at the time.
  • AndyJS said:

    Interesting to note that the Tories have effectively replaced an MP in Richmond Park with one in Copeland in recent months. It's difficult to think of two more different constituencies. Could be a pointer to what happens at the general election, with the Tories possibly losing seats like Bath, Cheltenham, Twickenham to the LDs and picking up places like Darlington, Berwickshire, Newcastle-under-Lyme from Labour.

    I've been of the view for some time that Mrs May is prepared to sacrifice 20 seats to the Lib Dems to gain 50 plus from Labour.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    isam said:

    I don't hate him, I find him quite annoyingly smug though. You say he would enabler as an MP but he hasn't been has he? I'm sure it is difficult and frustrating, yes. I'm also sure if Farage or Nuttall had been the MP there for 12 years people arguing with me would be making the point that I am!
    Single MPs can in fact do an awful lot, if they know how the system works and where the pressure points are. They also need to have energy, not be beholden to their leadership, and be prepared to bang desks and beard ministers in their lairs. Nicholas Soames in my neighbouring constituency is an example of just such an MP. I am not terribly keen on the bloke as a person and don't agree with some of his politics but, there is no doubt about it he is asset to the people he represents and can get things done (or stopped).
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    surbiton said:

    He eats Tories for breakfast!
    Hope and desperation. Much like you're leaving the Irish young with if you really do have rental flats in Dublin.
  • Pulpstar said:

    2.2% Con/Zac -> Lab swing, about average for the parliament.

    The 92-97 Lib Dem insurgencies Newbury, Christchurch, Eastleigh were all well over 12% Con -> Lab swing.

    Labour can take no comfort from Richmond.

    Now now, don't discourage them. Of course Richard Burgon is right. Jeremy Corbyn is doing better than Theresa May in by-elections, whatever the Murdoch press says. Hell, she was so frit that she didn't even stand a candidate in Richmond Park.

    The fightback has begun!

    (This post is brought to you by @Tories4Corbyn)
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,854

    Mr. Nabavi, point of order: Cameron himself said he'd be willing to campaign to leave if he didn't get a good enough deal.

    Did he say that his opponents would be the ones judging whether the deal was good enough and telling him what he should think about it?
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    matt said:

    Im more transfixed by the literary and grammar failings. Whoever wrote this simply struggles with the English language.
    Haven't you noticed that many people simply don't care about grammar and spelling these days?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,518
    AndyJS said:

    Let's not forget Cat Smith who described the Copeland result as an "incredible achievement" to keep the Tory majority to 2,000 votes.
    She was right. It hasn't been achieved for 139 years.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Pulpstar said:

    She was not wrong. It certainly was an incredible achievement by Labour to lose a seat held for 80+ years in a by-election fight with the governing party where the influence of third parties was negligible.
    Scarcely believable for sure.
    It's slightly scary how deluded Corbyn supporters like Cat Smith and Richard Burgon are. Everything that happens is somehow interpreted as an endorsement of the current Labour leadership.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    edited February 2017
    Good to see how a big accountancy firm sticks with its partners through thick and thin throws two of its partners under a bus when an honest mistake gets made.
    https://twitter.com/PwC_LLP/status/836411572591464448?ref_src=twsrc^tfw
  • AlsoIndigoAlsoIndigo Posts: 1,852

    A bit rich - the only difference between them is that Carswell was a boarder.
    and Farage was never a Tory MP.
  • Mr. Glenn, if Cameron didn't want his deal to be judged then calling the referendum wasn't terribly clever.
  • AlsoIndigoAlsoIndigo Posts: 1,852
    isam said:

    I don't hate him, I find him quite annoyingly smug though. You say he would enabler as an MP but he hasn't been has he? I'm sure it is difficult and frustrating, yes. I'm also sure if Farage or Nuttall had been the MP there for 12 years people arguing with me would be making the point that I am!
    Hansard suggest he has been trying quite hard. 11 PMQs for Jaywick in the since 2010. Meetings with ministers on behalf of his constituents. Ultimately he can try all he wants if the ministers/council can't or wont help, he's stuffed as are other MPs.
  • One of the problems with such private estates is the fact that half-hearted resurfacing jobs are done. The real costs are underground. You need to dig deep and build proper drains (rainwater and sewerage), water and electricity supplies. Trunking for cable can also be added. You then need to build a proper subbase, insert kerbing and other furniture (e.g. streetlights).

    Only then do you do the blacktop. All the real work is below that and invisible.

    And all this has to be done whilst the residents have continued access to their homes, water and sewerage. It is really, really expensive to do right. But if it is done right it'll last a very long time.

    Too often the solution for both councils and locals is to chuck a new layer of tarmac on, or even just spray tar and graded material. Which then disintegrates the next winter.
    A lot of the time ime. The developer will put down a road surface only suitable for cars etc.
    Forgetting the fact that dust bin lorries and removal trucks weigh significantly more and wear out the surface a lot sooner.

  • Sandpit said:

    Don't know whether to laugh or to cry at the constant stream of similar articles.
    Definitely laugh. For one thing, the Tories didn't even fight Richmond Park.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    Sandpit said:

    Good to see how a big accountancy firm sticks with its partners through thick and thin throws two of its partners under a bus when an honest mistake gets made.
    https://twitter.com/PwC_LLP/status/836411572591464448?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

    Be fair Mr. Pit, if you were a corporate customer of PwC would you trust them with serious tasks to do with your money and investments. If a company cannot organise the handing over of the correct envelope what chance have they in dealing with, even understanding, complex financial issues.
  • Definitely laugh. For one thing, the Tories didn't even fight Richmond Park.
    Has Zac Goldsmith re-joined the Conservative party yet do we know?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,594

    Careful, you'll be unleashing anarchy & chaos upon the world before you know it.
    I always suspected I would.
  • BromptonautBromptonaut Posts: 1,113

    This only makes them "thick" if they were of the opinion that money is the most important priority in life for Cornish people, that this trumped any other social and political concerns they had because MONEY MONEY MONEY CORNWALL MUST HAVE THE LOVELY MONEY and any issues of sovereignty or identity or whether Britain is a long-term fit for the long-term evolution of the EU go out of the window because CASH IS THE CORNISH KING OH MY GOD GIVE US ALL THE MONEY GIVE US ALL YOUR F***KING EU MONEY and whether it's been democratic for the British public to have been pushed so far along a route of European integration that has never had strong popular support really doesn't matter because GIMME GIMME GIMME oh look it's eu referendum date let's vote leave that sounds fun.

    Otherwise, they're not "thick". They're just people with different opinions and priorities to you.
    Proof.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,335
    edited February 2017
    Re Jaywick, maybe it is above Carswells pay grade, and a bit socialist, but I'd buy the land off the residents, demolish it & build new housing m, maybe affordable/maybe even
    Luxury. It's quite a nice spot really!
  • Essexit said:

    A valiant effort, but people who refused to understand this incredibly simple point before the referendum won't get it now either.
    I would imagine so.

    A wise person once said: "there is no such thing as public money; there is only taxpayers' money."

    With respect to money spent in the UK, there is no such thing as EU money, there is only British taxpayers' money. And the same, mutatis mutandis, for other contributor countries.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited February 2017

    But the thickness of the people of Cornwall, who voted Leave en masse and thus denied themselves squillions in EU funding, is greater than most.
    Umm, yes... unless of course they'd prefer to aim to be financially independent in the future rather than dependent on a body like the EU.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,559

    and Farage was never a Tory MP.
    He wouldn't have had the chance to try and fail seven times as a Conservative candidate.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022

    Be fair Mr. Pit, if you were a corporate customer of PwC would you trust them with serious tasks to do with your money and investments. If a company cannot organise the handing over of the correct envelope what chance have they in dealing with, even understanding, complex financial issues.
    Oh indeed. It's just that they milked the association for all it was worth in the run up to the event, then hung out their employees to dry when something didn't quite go according to plan. It's probably fair to say that a different firm of auditors will be working for the Academy next year.
  • David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506
    edited February 2017
    Sandpit said:

    Good to see how a big accountancy firm sticks with its partners through thick and thin throws two of its partners under a bus when an honest mistake gets made.
    https://twitter.com/PwC_LLP/status/836411572591464448?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

    The PwC people made an appalling mistake. All they had to do was put the right piece of paper in the right envelope and give it to the right person. Sheer incompetence which has caused damage to PwC's reputation across the world.

    They also took their time to correct the mistake.

    Sackable offence if ever their was one. I expect them to resign in disgrace.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,884
    edited February 2017

    Be fair Mr. Pit, if you were a corporate customer of PwC would you trust them with serious tasks to do with your money and investments. If a company cannot organise the handing over of the correct envelope what chance have they in dealing with, even understanding, complex financial issues.
    They shouldn't have given the distributing envelope job to a partner. Partners of PwC don't do envelopes. That's the job of their PAs, who would have dispatched the task without any risk of misstep.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022

    Definitely laugh. For one thing, the Tories didn't even fight Richmond Park.
    Indeed. Not only was the poster riddled with spelling and grammatical errors, they missed key facts on the two by-elections. Not that the Corbynistas ever let facts get in the way of their praise for the Great Leader.

    Cat Smith was right, it was an absolutely extraordinary result.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,235

    Has Zac Goldsmith re-joined the Conservative party yet do we know?
    For the purposes of my model I considered him a Conservative. I've eliminated Lincoln 1973 however.
  • glwglw Posts: 10,367
    AndyJS said:

    It's slightly scary how deluded Corbyn supporters like Cat Smith and Richard Burgon are. Everything that happens is somehow interpreted as an endorsement of the current Labour leadership.

    Burgon and Smith are two prime examples of everything that is wrong with the modern Labour Party.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,854

    I would imagine so.

    A wise person once said: "there is no such thing as public money; there is only taxpayers' money."

    With respect to money spent in the UK, there is no such thing as EU money, there is only British taxpayers' money. And the same, mutatis mutandis, for other contributor countries.
    As a wise man once said about Euro cynics: "they know the price of everything and the value of nothing."
  • BromptonautBromptonaut Posts: 1,113
    Cookie said:

    Maybe they thought thee was more to the future than EU money? Maybe they thought that as we are a net contributor, EU funding would be replaced by UK funding? Maybe they thought that regaining control over fisheries was more valuable? Are they right? Who knows? But - as with a GE - there's surely a bit more to the decision than a simple question of 'who will give me the most cake?'
    Maybe they were wrong to trust the Tories to disregard politics and allocate funding based on need. Maybe the EU has to be more even-handed between regions.

    As for regaining control of fisheries, you do know that's another Leaver fantasy, don't you?

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/environment/2017/feb/15/uk-fishermen-may-not-win-waters-back-after-brexit-eu-memo-reveals

    Maybe having enough cake doesn't matter to you, but some of these people are on the breadline.
  • EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,965
    isam said:

    Re Jaywick, maybe it is above Carswells pay grade, and a bit socialist, but I'd buy the land off the residents, demolish it & build new housing m, maybe affordable/maybe even
    Luxury. It's quite a nice spot really!

    Surely if there were profit in doing that, someone would have done it by now? Frinton provides all the luxury housing needed in the area, for one.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 10,033

    Definitely laugh. For one thing, the Tories didn't even fight Richmond Park.
    Some did.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,335
    Essexit said:

    Surely if there were profit in doing that, someone would have done it by now? Frinton provides all the luxury housing needed in the area, for one.
    Sorry I mean the council should buy the land and build new housing in it. Not luxury obviously
  • CyanCyan Posts: 1,262
    edited February 2017
    How will the EU immunity story affect Le Pen?

    The EU parliament will decide today on whether to remove her immunity from French prosecution in respect of her tweets of three disgusting ISIS execution photos in 2015 and two cases of alleged defamation.

    I haven't found any good reports on this. The best I've found is from Bloomberg. As I understand it, MEPs have the same immunity in their home countries as they would if they were MPs, which varies from country to country.

    Can she sell the narrative that the EU is persecuting her for trying to stand up for France against Islam? I think she probably can, and that this will strengthen her.

    According to Bloomberg, the timetable is as follows:

    today, 28 Feb: an EU parliamentary committee considers a request from a French court to remove her immunity regarding the tweets and the instances of alleged defamation;

    next week: the committee makes recommendations to the EU parliament;

    later in March: the whole EU parliament votes on the issue.

    This seems ideal for Le Pen, especially given that Wilders is likely to be in the news a lot in the second half of March. It will help her push the message that getting a plurality isn't good enough, faced with the EU powers that be, which are "soft on Islam" and assisted by the French compradore "establishment". With "enemies" like this in the EU parliament, does she need "friends"?

    Polls are currently saying that from R1 to R2 she'll increase her percentage from 26% to 39% against Macron and 42% against Fillon, so by 50-62%. That wouldn't give her the Elysée, but it would break new ground for an FN candidate.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,518

    Maybe they were wrong to trust the Tories to disregard politics and allocate funding based on need. Maybe the EU has to be more even-handed between regions.

    As for regaining control of fisheries, you do know that's another Leaver fantasy, don't you?

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/environment/2017/feb/15/uk-fishermen-may-not-win-waters-back-after-brexit-eu-memo-reveals

    Maybe having enough cake doesn't matter to you, but some of these people are on the breadline.
    Per head of population, EU funding is pretty marginal. And, it is our money being returned to us.
  • BromptonautBromptonaut Posts: 1,113
    Ishmael_Z said:

    The money is not parcelled out in cash to the population at so much per head, it tends to be spent on stuff like "Innovation Centres" whatever the feck they are.

    I think you are the mouth-breather who deduced that I must be a "Mussolini fanboy" because I said that it was admirable of him to modify the definition of Jewishness in a way which saved the lives of tens of thousands of Jews, at no obvious gain to himself. You should be cautious about denouncing thickness in other people.
    *waves*
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,854

    The PwC people made an appalling mistake. All they had to do was put the right piece of paper in the right envelope and give it to the right person. Sheer incompetence which has caused damage to PwC's reputation across the world.

    You think some clients might tell them to Foxtrot Oscar?
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,884

    With respect to money spent in the UK, there is no such thing as EU money, there is only British taxpayers' money. And the same, mutatis mutandis, for other contributor countries.

    Indeed the UK is a net payer to the EU. However public revenues aren't a fixed amount. Brexit will almost certainly squeeze UK revenues by more than our net payments to the EU, There will be less money to spend on Cornwall (or the NHS - pace the £350 million claim)

  • nunununu Posts: 6,024


    7 Times Remainers Claimed Mobile Phone Costs Would Rise Post-Brexit: https://order-order.com/2017/02/28/vodafone-boss-mobile-roaming-charges-wont-rise-post-brexit/
  • BromptonautBromptonaut Posts: 1,113
    Sean_F said:

    Per head of population, EU funding is pretty marginal. And, it is our money being returned to us.
    'Us' being the English, not the Cornish. Hence my point.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    FF43 said:

    They shouldn't have given the distributing envelope job to a partner. Partners of PwC don't do envelopes. That's the job of their PAs, who would have dispatched the task without any risk of misstep.
    :lol:
  • isam said:

    Re Jaywick, maybe it is above Carswells pay grade, and a bit socialist, but I'd buy the land off the residents, demolish it & build new housing m, maybe affordable/maybe even
    Luxury. It's quite a nice spot really!

    Is that sort of thing not the duty of the Council and not Westminster MPs?

    If a Westminster MP started trying to unilaterally buy up buildings and kick residents out of their homes so that they could be bulldozed and have new homes constructed for sale then I suspect that would cause quite a stink!
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,518

    'Us' being the English, not the Cornish. Hence my point.
    The Cornish were English last time I looked.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,854
    Essexit said:

    Surely if there were profit in doing that, someone would have done it by now? Frinton provides all the luxury housing needed in the area, for one.
    I simply refuse to believe that Essex could ever have enough luxury.
  • FF43 said:

    Indeed the UK is a net payer to the EU. However public revenues aren't a fixed amount. Brexit will almost certainly squeeze UK revenues by more than our net payments to the EU, There will be less money to spend on Cornwall (or the NHS - pace the £350 million claim)

    Why? In five years time when you have the evidence you can make that claim. Right now you have no idea what effect Brexit will have on public revenues. You are simply making unfounded assumptions.
  • glwglw Posts: 10,367
    nunu said:



    7 Times Remainers Claimed Mobile Phone Costs Would Rise Post-Brexit: https://order-order.com/2017/02/28/vodafone-boss-mobile-roaming-charges-wont-rise-post-brexit/

    It's not an entirely EU thing anyway, it already applies to the EEA, so in principal the same agreements could easily apply to the UK post Brexit if we wanted them too.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,692
    glw said:

    Burgon and Smith are two prime examples of everything that is wrong with the modern Labour Party.
    And one of them may well be the next party leader.
  • BromptonautBromptonaut Posts: 1,113
    Sean_F said:

    The Cornish were English last time I looked.
    You must be looking from east of the Tamar then.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 10,033
    isam said:

    Sorry I mean the council should buy the land and build new housing in it. Not luxury obviously
    "maybe even Luxury"
    "Not luxury obviously"
    ??
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    isam said:

    The truth is that Ukip needed Carswell in 2014 and Carswell needed Ukip. The obvious 'musical differences' were set aside in order to win freedom from the EU. Now that has been achieved its best they go their separate ways.

    At my candidate interview for UKIP I cautiously said 'I know he's our new poster boy and all that, but what has Carswell actually done for Clacton in the last 9 years?'... the interviewer said 'precisely'

    A marriage of convenience that has run its course

    Interestingly, Tim Shipman in "All Out War" (excellent book, although only just started) says that the original defection was a deliberate move by Hannan and Carswell to try and detoxify the UKIP brand as there was an inverse correlation between UKIP support and Brexit support.
  • WilfredWilfred Posts: 2
    edited February 2017
    isam said:

    Sorry I mean the council should buy the land and build new housing in it. Not luxury obviously
    Living fairly near (other side of Colchester), I'd like to point out that much of this has already started. Essex County Council started a project to resurface the roads in July 2015 for two years, which I'd assume must be nearly finished by now (http://www.essexhighways.org/Highway-Schemes-and-Developments/other-schemes/Jaywick-Improvement-Works.aspx).

    Secondly, Tendring District Council have been trumpeting at least three new private-sector developments of flats along the seafront in the last few months (http://www.tendringdc.gov.uk/council/news-pr/news-listing/third-major-development-scheme-put-forward-jaywick-sands), all replacing vacant/derelict buildings.

    Is it enough? Probably not, but it's better than anything that's happened for the last few decades. Is it Carswell's achievement? I don't really know enough to comment, but I'd very strongly suspect not.
  • Mr. F, that was somewhat undermined by Clegg's cretinous move to grant Cornish minority status.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Charles said:

    Interestingly, Tim Shipman in "All Out War" (excellent book, although only just started) says that the original defection was a deliberate move by Hannan and Carswell to try and detoxify the UKIP brand as there was an inverse correlation between UKIP support and Brexit support.
    So Carswell was arrogant enough to believe his defection would alone "detoxify" a party's brand??
  • Besides the Cornish, here's another flock of turkeys who voted for Christmas:

    https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/836146470717960192
  • MyBurningEarsMyBurningEars Posts: 3,651
    edited February 2017

    Proof.
    One of my bugbears with The Left (and I write this despite having voted Communist in the last Euro elections!) is their trope that "anyone who votes in a way that lies contrary to what my opinion of their own interests is, must be suffering from false consciousness".

    To be fair, you hear it from right-wingers occasionally too ("why do all these folk in poor constituencies keep voting Labour for 50 years, if at the end of it the place is as bad a dump as it was at the start?") but left-wingers do seem to enjoy the idea that the only reason someone didn't vote the way they "should" have done is some kind of mental delusion. It's an ugly viewpoint.

    These days people voted the wrong way, contrary to the way their real interests and feelings lie (as perceived by me, who benefits from a clearer view of it than they themselves), because they were a bunch of thickheads is starting to get on my mostly metaphorical tits too.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,884
    edited February 2017
    nunu said:



    7 Times Remainers Claimed Mobile Phone Costs Would Rise Post-Brexit: https://order-order.com/2017/02/28/vodafone-boss-mobile-roaming-charges-wont-rise-post-brexit/

    The Vodafone boss confuses roaming charges UK customers pay while in Switzerland with the roaming charges customers of Swiss telecoms companies pay when they are outside the country. It's the second which is relevant here. Europe roaming charges for Swiss are high 45c /36p per minute with Swisscom.
  • And if the council adopted the roads they would wack each resident with a hefty (four figure bill), do a half-hearted resurfacing job and then ignore said road for the next twenty years, no matter how much it breaks up in the interim.

    The residents of a new estate up the road from me have made a positive decision to keep the roads on the estate out of the council's hands because between them they think they can do a better job of maintenance for lower cost. Looking at the state of the roads around here, they are probably correct.
    Eh?

    I've got a newbuild home that is due to have the road adopted by the Council and I've not been advised on any bill for it happening. Whether the road would be adopted or not was a major issue during the survey prior to construction, we wanted it adopted as we had been advised that if it was not adopted we'd be liable for repairs while if it is adopted the Council would be and we pay the same Council Tax either way.
  • CyanCyan Posts: 1,262
    Ishmael_Z said:

    The money is not parcelled out in cash to the population at so much per head, it tends to be spent on stuff like "Innovation Centres" whatever the feck they are.

    I think you are the mouth-breather who deduced that I must be a "Mussolini fanboy" because I said that it was admirable of him to modify the definition of Jewishness in a way which saved the lives of tens of thousands of Jews, at no obvious gain to himself. You should be cautious about denouncing thickness in other people.
    Are you sure you get 100% of your air through your nose? So if you cover your mouth or hold it shut you don't find that your breathing changes? Just asking.
  • Danny565 said:

    So Carswell was arrogant enough to believe his defection would alone "detoxify" a party's brand??
    This is also the story in several of the other Brexit books that came out this summer. I've not got hold of All Out War yet, probably a mistake as it is supposed to be the cream of that crop!
  • EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,965
    Welcome to PB, Wilfred. Another Colcestrian!
  • AlsoIndigoAlsoIndigo Posts: 1,852

    He wouldn't have had the chance to try and fail seven times as a Conservative candidate.
    True, although being fair to Farage (!) he was little more than a paper candidate at five of those.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,235

    Besides the Cornish, here's another flock of turkeys who voted for Christmas:

    https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/836146470717960192

    Awesome, long term after I move house I'll be on the lookout to pick up a couple of acres of grazing for the nags.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,832

    Maybe they were wrong to trust the Tories to disregard politics and allocate funding based on need. Maybe the EU has to be more even-handed between regions.

    As for regaining control of fisheries, you do know that's another Leaver fantasy, don't you?

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/environment/2017/feb/15/uk-fishermen-may-not-win-waters-back-after-brexit-eu-memo-reveals

    Maybe having enough cake doesn't matter to you, but some of these people are on the breadline.
    I'm not saying how things will pan out - I'm suggesting why the Cornish might have voted the way that they did, and suggesting that there are other things bar EU grants affecting the way the Cornish feel about Brussels. I might not have voted the way they did, but the way they voted was not 'stupid' - it just encapsulates a different set of priorities.
  • EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,965
    Danny565 said:

    So Carswell was arrogant enough to believe his defection would alone "detoxify" a party's brand??
    He didn't quite succeed in that, granted, but throwing his support as the sole UKIP MP behind Vote Leave could have been crucial in the close designation battle. It's reasonable to argue that his defection was decisive in the referendum.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,335

    "maybe even Luxury"
    "Not luxury obviously"
    ??
    Yes a mistake!

    When you say something is 8/1 and a 'buying opportunity' what was that?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,396
    edited February 2017

    Eh?

    I've got a newbuild home that is due to have the road adopted by the Council and I've not been advised on any bill for it happening. Whether the road would be adopted or not was a major issue during the survey prior to construction, we wanted it adopted as we had been advised that if it was not adopted we'd be liable for repairs while if it is adopted the Council would be and we pay the same Council Tax either way.
    AIUI with new builds it generally isn't much of a problem, unless the developer goes bust after completion of the housing.

    Our house was built around fourteen years ago, and towards the end of last year we had workmen fettling around various snags ready for the council's adoption. Not much work was required (a few man-weeks), and the council appears happy.

    If the developer goes bust it can be a very different story.

    It is very different for areas that have had houses for decades, and especially plotlands, private developments and the like, where the developer is long dead and buried. Then it is on the owners to sort the unadopted roads out.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,335
    edited February 2017

    Is that sort of thing not the duty of the Council and not Westminster MPs?

    If a Westminster MP started trying to unilaterally buy up buildings and kick residents out of their homes so that they could be bulldozed and have new homes constructed for sale then I suspect that would cause quite a stink!
    He could work in conjunction w the council and offer to buy the land? It would be up to the residents to sell or not.

    Sorry if this sounds like a punter just making suggestions, & isn't correct subject to planning rules etc, but that's what it is!

    Something radical needs to be done and I don't think 'digital democracy' is it
  • Welcome to pb.com, Mr. Wilfred.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,408
    Cyan said:

    How will the EU immunity story affect Le Pen?

    The EU parliament will decide today on whether to remove her immunity from French prosecution in respect of her tweets of three disgusting ISIS execution photos in 2015 and two cases of alleged defamation.

    I haven't found any good reports on this. The best I've found is from Bloomberg. As I understand it, MEPs have the same immunity in their home countries as they would if they were MPs, which varies from country to country.

    Can she sell the narrative that the EU is persecuting her for trying to stand up for France against Islam? I think she probably can, and that this will strengthen her.

    According to Bloomberg, the timetable is as follows:

    today, 28 Feb: an EU parliamentary committee considers a request from a French court to remove her immunity regarding the tweets and the instances of alleged defamation;

    next week: the committee makes recommendations to the EU parliament;

    later in March: the whole EU parliament votes on the issue.

    This seems ideal for Le Pen, especially given that Wilders is likely to be in the news a lot in the second half of March. It will help her push the message that getting a plurality isn't good enough, faced with the EU powers that be, which are "soft on Islam" and assisted by the French compradore "establishment". With "enemies" like this in the EU parliament, does she need "friends"?

    Polls are currently saying that from R1 to R2 she'll increase her percentage from 26% to 39% against Macron and 42% against Fillon, so by 50-62%. That wouldn't give her the Elysée, but it would break new ground for an FN candidate.

    Would you like a bet on Mme Le Pen's second round vote? How about you pay £10 for every point below 42%, and I pay you £10 for every point above. Settled to one decimal place.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    Eh?

    I've got a newbuild home that is due to have the road adopted by the Council and I've not been advised on any bill for it happening. Whether the road would be adopted or not was a major issue during the survey prior to construction, we wanted it adopted as we had been advised that if it was not adopted we'd be liable for repairs while if it is adopted the Council would be and we pay the same Council Tax either way.
    The bill Mr. Thompson is sent to residents on an existing non-adopted road which the council, for one reason or another decides to adopt. It is usually hefty and in my experience is in the four figures bracket.

    Whether your local council actually maintain your road is, in my view, a matter of doubt. My council certainly does not maintain the roads in my village to any sort of standard. We have wheel-breaking potholes all over the place and it has been getting progressively worse for ten years or more.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,854

    True, although being fair to Farage (!) he was little more than a paper candidate at five of those.
    The leader and figurehead of a movement was just a paper candidate? Surely that classification requires more than simply the expectation of failure.
This discussion has been closed.