politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Pre-Christmas voodoo surveys might have had a big move against
Comments
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After many years of looking down at English wine I had some Nyetimber sparkling wine today.SeanT said:Incidentally, I hope everyone had a merry Chrimbo
I did. Perhaps one of the best ever. Nothing grand, or special, but a warm family dinner with lots of champagne (cooked by my daughter's granddad, a brilliant chef, which helped), then a few games and fine wine.
Then today a sunny day out at BEAUTIFUL Leeds Castle (I'd never been before, it fabulous - with a wonderful maze)
Result: happy kids, happy parents, happy grandparents, and all in reasonable health. That's all you can hope for (and I have had many horrific Christmases, with death and stabbings and the like)
It was the perfect end to a brilliant year for all of us, and as a result I am resolved to rise above any abuse for as long as possible, from now on, and I shall not be dishing it out, either. I also shall be visiting much less from next week, as 2017 is when I have to get back to work.
Frohe Weinachten.
It was excellent, I wouldn't have been able to tell it apart from champagne.0 -
All this talk about adding a term or two to current jargon reminds me of the "Mickey Mouse club". Their members were called "mousketeers".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOBlXZyKC6A
Trouble is, for me, these inelegant, dull, terms lack a delicate humorous touch like, say, the wonderful Jewish "frumka".
How can anyone take exception to them?0 -
Isam he could have just stopped twittering away regarding Jo Cox husband.Surely he could have just not answered and be more magnanimous.He has won the referendum and played Cameron into been one of the most unsuccessful prime minister's since 1945.0
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In case it has gone unmentioned, the Times report that the IoD's survey of business confidence shows a surge in optimism for 2017, with a clear majority thinking it will be a good year.0
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Don't feel bad for me, Sam. I don't feel bitter.isam said:
I feel bad for you, you used to be quite reasonable. Has this defeat made you so bitter?TOPPING said:
Sd.isam said:
I am a Brexiteer, and proud of the name. But I think people whose side lost the referendum do, maybe wrongly, use it mockingly... they got a lot of things wrong (phone polls, its the economy stupid) so maybe this is the hat trickSeanT said:
ThisLuckyguy1983 said:
I agree, but quite plainly it wasake Leave look unreliable.Charles said:
Iople...isam said:
dsTheuniondivvie said:
Perfectly ok.isam said:
Yes I suppose so. A bit like black people being able to use some words to describe themselves while others shouldn't. Are you ok with that?Theuniondivvie said:
Ah, so instead of actually going with the meaning of words, we're going to presume what folk using them 'really' mean?isam said:
I don't cerendum losersTheuniondivvie said:
No, unless (oddly) you think any reference to Brexit is automatically negative?isam said:Mike asked for "remoaners" not to be used, along with other derogatory names re Leave and Remain.
?
Quick, call the semiotics police.
otions.
EDIT: also they thought Farage was toxic
I enjoy and have enjoyed your postings for a long time and disliked it whenever you were banned. As (you are) a former Labour voter, and someone who has his ear to the ground I have appreciated and benefited from your insight into the changing world around you.
But I have never liked your "white flight" views about people coming in and changing communities and forcing the hitherto indigenous population to leave. I don't dispute that it is a reality, but at the same time the incomers I bet have not been from the EU. Further East is my guess, and the females perhaps being ones who most noticeably don't fit in and have changed the character of the places which you were so fond of.
From this view, you then became an ardent Kipper and a Brexiter. So at times of weakness or insight, in this case brought about by a few glasses of Nyetimber special cuvee, I get irritated when you elide the two issues of middle eastern immigration and membership of the EU. Because I believe that just like the drunk who looks for his wallet underneath the lamppost because it's lighter there, much of your anti-EU feeling derives from a general dislike of other kinds of immigration.
Happy Christmas.0 -
Or should that be "frumqa"?0
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What is this world coming to - Express and Star readers have minds!
You'll be telling me next that Telegraph readers have souls, or Guardian readers have assets.
The sooner that May delivers something that you can hang your hat on and say is 'Brexit', or what the referendum voted for, the better. We can get on with the normal practice thereafter.
I'm mainly posting though to attack SeanT - It's 'Crimbo' surely! I've never seen it spelled as 'Chrimbo', and as such I shall comdemn you roundly to any inquisitors that cross my path.
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@TOPPING
Nice of you to say so.
The place I live has barely changed at all. What angers me is the doing down of people whose neighbourhoods have changed out of all recognition, some of which are relatively close.
EU immigration is bad economically for the indigenous population in the areas where the migrants move to en masse, but in time the communities would merge, it is happening a lot already. I disliked us being in the EU mostly because it gave our politicians an easy out whereby they could make promises they had no intention of keeping , then blame the EU, and also because it makes the rich richer and the poor poorer, and when the poor complained they got called some "ist" or other.
I think Islamic immigration is a disaster for Europe, it is causing no end of problems across the continent, who can disagree? If the people doing so were White Mormons, I would say the same. There is no problem with integration with Caribbean immigrants and their descendants, the proof is there whenever you see a person of mixed heritage. You could say the same for many other non Muslim Asian immigrants, you see mixed marriage and children all the time, so its not about colour, its about religion, and its only going to get worse.0 -
Farage is toxic. Leavers thought that too not just Remainers.isam said:I am a Brexiteer, and proud of the name. But I think people whose side lost the referendum do, maybe wrongly, use it mockingly... they got a lot of things wrong (phone polls, its the economy stupid) so maybe this is the hat trick
EDIT: also they thought Farage was toxic
That's why he wasn't allowed in the official Leave campaign.
That's why the Leave campaign didn't chose him for any of the major televised debates.
That's arguably why Leave won. Because the toxic guy was off doing his own thing and not the official face of Leave.0 -
Why ? Did anyone mention this during the campaign ? So, it is indeed unexpected.RobD said:
The moving of an EU organization out of Britain after Brexit is an "unanticipated consequence"?williamglenn said:http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/25/world/europe/eu-medicines-agency-britain-brexit.html
NY Times: Hidden Costs of ‘Brexit’ Continue to Mount0 -
Hang on, didn't Farage do that ITV thing? He did a Q&A and then Cameron did it - and is that when Cameron made his Little Englander comment?Philip_Thompson said:
Farage is toxic. Leavers thought that too not just Remainers.isam said:I am a Brexiteer, and proud of the name. But I think people whose side lost the referendum do, maybe wrongly, use it mockingly... they got a lot of things wrong (phone polls, its the economy stupid) so maybe this is the hat trick
EDIT: also they thought Farage was toxic
That's why he wasn't allowed in the official Leave campaign.
That's why the Leave campaign didn't chose him for any of the major televised debates.
That's arguably why Leave won. Because the toxic guy was off doing his own thing and not the official face of Leave.0 -
As RobD has pointed this thread is debunking voodoo pollsMoses_ said:Well that just goes to show that on this site voodoo polls are only acceptable if they show what Remainers want.
At any other time and when I posted what was a voodoo poll inadvertently the regulars descended on me like a ton of bricks. TSE was the first on that occasion. Any one who thinks a voodoo poll showing more wished to leave would have ever got an airing in the comments let alone the thread header is simply Mad. The daily mail green tick system is regularly abused with thousands of ticks in a few seconds for one thing or another and this is the same.
Not a good day for PB.com. Never thought I would see the day voodoo polls would get coverage. Forgot how utterly desperate Remainers are becoming though.
New PB rule.
Any poster who haven't read the thread header and then criticises the thread writer for all the wrong reasons will be exiled to ConHome for a period of six months.
No allowances will be made for intellectually challenged posters, even the half wits that think Quisling has no Nazi connotations.0 -
I am half asleep. Yet even I was incredibly confused by everyone accusing PB of ramping voodoo polls. And that was from just reading the headline. Which was really clear.TheScreamingEagles said:
As RobD has pointed this thread is debunking voodoo pollsMoses_ said:Well that just goes to show that on this site voodoo polls are only acceptable if they show what Remainers want.
At any other time and when I posted what was a voodoo poll inadvertently the regulars descended on me like a ton of bricks. TSE was the first on that occasion. Any one who thinks a voodoo poll showing more wished to leave would have ever got an airing in the comments let alone the thread header is simply Mad. The daily mail green tick system is regularly abused with thousands of ticks in a few seconds for one thing or another and this is the same.
Not a good day for PB.com. Never thought I would see the day voodoo polls would get coverage. Forgot how utterly desperate Remainers are becoming though.
New PB rule.
Any poster who haven't read the thread header and then criticises the thread writer for all the wrong reasons will be exiled to ConHome for a period of six months.
No allowances will be made for intellectually challenged posters, even the half wits that think Quisling has no Nazi connotations.0 -
Impossible to know. Personally I don't think those WWC voters who dont usually bother to vote were swayed by Carswell and Hannan's wordy world view otr the ins and outs of EU treaties, but maybe.Philip_Thompson said:
Farage is toxic. Leavers thought that too not just Remainers.isam said:I am a Brexiteer, and proud of the name. But I think people whose side lost the referendum do, maybe wrongly, use it mockingly... they got a lot of things wrong (phone polls, its the economy stupid) so maybe this is the hat trick
EDIT: also they thought Farage was toxic
That's why he wasn't allowed in the official Leave campaign.
That's why the Leave campaign didn't chose him for any of the major televised debates.
That's arguably why Leave won. Because the toxic guy was off doing his own thing and not the official face of Leave.
Boris obviously had a lot to do with it, but I think Farage played a huge role. But as a fan of his I suppose I would.0 -
There is a vague rumor going round that the Russians may have shot down their own aircraft yesterday.
This probably based on the aircraft's lack of signal, something noted by civil air watchers. Hard to know if people are putting two and two together and getting 4 or 5.
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Plus I mean Mike bolding/highlighting this was also a pointer (which I posted up thread as well)Alistair said:
I am half asleep. Yet even I was incredibly confused by everyone accusing PB of ramping voodoo polls. And that was from just reading the headline. Which was really clear.TheScreamingEagles said:
As RobD has pointed this thread is debunking voodoo pollsMoses_ said:Well that just goes to show that on this site voodoo polls are only acceptable if they show what Remainers want.
At any other time and when I posted what was a voodoo poll inadvertently the regulars descended on me like a ton of bricks. TSE was the first on that occasion. Any one who thinks a voodoo poll showing more wished to leave would have ever got an airing in the comments let alone the thread header is simply Mad. The daily mail green tick system is regularly abused with thousands of ticks in a few seconds for one thing or another and this is the same.
Not a good day for PB.com. Never thought I would see the day voodoo polls would get coverage. Forgot how utterly desperate Remainers are becoming though.
New PB rule.
Any poster who haven't read the thread header and then criticises the thread writer for all the wrong reasons will be exiled to ConHome for a period of six months.
No allowances will be made for intellectually challenged posters, even the half wits that think Quisling has no Nazi connotations.
But the problem with these surveys is that they are not and do not seek to be representative of opinion. Anybody can participate online and it does not take a computer genius to find ways of multi-voting.
In the next thread I write, it'll be an open thread for the snowflake leavers to list the words that cause them alarm and distress, so we know what their trigger words are.0 -
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Yes I think that is right. People won't be as quick to take it for granted any more.SeanT said:
I think you've got a good point. For many people it wasn't Polish plumbers that annoyed and alarmed, it was Roma beggars, and conservative Muslims.TOPPING said:
Don't feel bad for me, Sam. I don't feel bitter.isam said:
I feel bad for you, you used to be quite reasonable. Has this defeat made you so bitter?TOPPING said:
Sd.isam said:
I am a BrSeanT said:
ThisLuckyguy1983 said:
I agree, but quite plainly it wasake Leave look unreliable.Charles said:
Iople...isam said:
dsTheuniondivvie said:
Perfectly ok.isam said:
Yes I suppoh that?Theuniondivvie said:
Ah, miotics police.isam said:
I don't cerendum losersTheuniondivvie said:
No, unless (oddly) you think any reference to Brexit is automatically negative?isam said:Mike asked for "remoaners" not to be used, along with other derogatory names re Leave and Remain.
?
otions.
EDIT: also they thought Farage was toxic
I enjoy
From EU feeling derives from a general dislike of other kinds of immigration.
Happy Christmas.
But we were never given the chance to specify what kind of immigration we wanted, we just got lots and lots of it, and a Muslim population that has doubled in a decade. We also had a Tory government which kept promising to reduce net migration and yet didn't. We had a Labour opposition which apparently wants MORE and UNLIMITED immigration. So voting in general elections was clearly pointless, and changed nothing, hence the fall in turn out over 20 years.
And then, suddenly, Brits who are worried about migration got one chance to push one emergency button which would, indisputably, send out the deafening message: WE DON'T WANT SO MUCH IMMIGRATION
So they pushed it. They made sure their voices were heard. And how.
And now political attitudes to migration, EU and non EU, will finally change. So it worked. Democracy WORKS.
How that will work in our globalised world remains to be seen. The EU evidently sees the future as one without borders. We disagree. Are we right? Well of course there is no right. (One of) my main gripes with Brexit is that, as you describe above, it was a proxy for something else completely.0 -
Why on earth would an EU agency stay in the UK if we left? It goes without saying.surbiton said:
Why ? Did anyone mention this during the campaign ? So, it is indeed unexpected.RobD said:
The moving of an EU organization out of Britain after Brexit is an "unanticipated consequence"?williamglenn said:http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/25/world/europe/eu-medicines-agency-britain-brexit.html
NY Times: Hidden Costs of ‘Brexit’ Continue to Mount0 -
I can think of few things more depressing that people rushing out to the shops on Boxing Day.SeanT said:
Anecdatally, I drove home through central London - Oxford St -at 5pm today.chestnut said:In case it has gone unmentioned, the Times report that the IoD's survey of business confidence shows a surge in optimism for 2017, with a clear majority thinking it will be a good year.
It was absolutely HEAVING. I have never - ever - seen it so crowded. It was worse than Camden Market on a Sunday. I nearly ran over half a dozen shoppers as the crowds forced people off the pavement, and onto the road.
There is no Brexit effect in the shops, as far as I can tell. Quite the opposite.
We shall see.....
And now I'm gonna take my own advice and log off to watch t'telly.
Later.
The addiction to buying imported consumer tat with borrowed money is the main cause of Britain's economic problems.
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I've always been in favour of helping to educate the masses.Omnium said:@TSE
And there I was thinking it might be LabourList. You have an unexpected streak of kindness beyond your grim facade
As a working class Northerner, I know how much a good education can help somebody achieve their potential.0 -
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A parvum opus.RobD said:
A magnum opus is something that is published in volumes in my view.0 -
When the voodoo poll was first posted, someone used it to illustrate their point saying "No wonder leavers are scared stiff"TheScreamingEagles said:
Plus I mean Mike bolding/highlighting this was also a pointer (which I posted up thread as well)Alistair said:
I am half asleep. Yet even I was incredibly confused by everyone accusing PB of ramping voodoo polls. And that was from just reading the headline. Which was really clear.TheScreamingEagles said:
As RobD has pointed this thread is debunking voodoo pollsMoses_ said:Well that just goes to show that on this site voodoo polls are only acceptable if they show what Remainers want.
At any other time and when I posted what was a voodoo poll inadvertently the regulars descended on me like a ton of bricks. TSE was the first on that occasion. Any one who thinks a voodoo poll showing more wished to leave would have ever got an airing in the comments let alone the thread header is simply Mad. The daily mail green tick system is regularly abused with thousands of ticks in a few seconds for one thing or another and this is the same.
Not a good day for PB.com. Never thought I would see the day voodoo polls would get coverage. Forgot how utterly desperate Remainers are becoming though.
New PB rule.
Any poster who haven't read the thread header and then criticises the thread writer for all the wrong reasons will be exiled to ConHome for a period of six months.
No allowances will be made for intellectually challenged posters, even the half wits that think Quisling has no Nazi connotations.
But the problem with these surveys is that they are not and do not seek to be representative of opinion. Anybody can participate online and it does not take a computer genius to find ways of multi-voting.
In the next thread I write, it'll be an open thread for the snowflake leavers to list the words that cause them alarm and distress, so we know what their trigger words are.
Is that fair enough in your book?0 -
But it is noticeable that the places with the highest Leave votes are working class areas which had previously little immigration but then received large numbers from Eastern Europe during the last decade.SeanT said:
I think you've got a good point. For many people it wasn't Polish plumbers that annoyed and alarmed, it was Roma beggars, and conservative Muslims.TOPPING said:
Don't feel bad for me, Sam. I don't feel bitter.isam said:
I enjoy
From this view, you then became an ardent Kipper and a Brexiter. So at times of weakness or insight, in this case brought about by a few glasses of Nyetimber special cuvee, I get irritated when you elide the two issues of middle eastern immigration and membership of the EU. Because I believe that just like the drunk who looks for his wallet underneath the lamp post because it's lighter there, much of your anti-EU feeling derives from a general dislike of other kinds of immigration.
Happy Christmas.
But we were never given the chance to specify what kind of immigration we wanted, we just got lots and lots of it, and a Muslim population that has doubled in a decade. We also had a Tory government which kept promising to reduce net migration and yet didn't. We had a Labour opposition which apparently wants MORE and UNLIMITED immigration. So voting in general elections was clearly pointless, and changed nothing, hence the fall in turn out over 20 years.
And then, suddenly, Brits who are worried about migration got one chance to push one emergency button which would, indisputably, send out the deafening message: WE DON'T WANT SO MUCH IMMIGRATION
So they pushed it. They made sure their voices were heard. And how.
And now political attitudes to migration, EU and non EU, will finally change. So it worked. Democracy WORKS.
These areas have suffered from the effects uncontrolled and unprepared immigration has had on pay rates, housing and public services.
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Somehow we need to make it obvious to immigrants that our liberal democracy is a better society with better outcomes than the alternative.isam said:@TOPPING
Nice of you to say so.
The place I live has barely changed at all. What angers me is the doing down of people whose neighbourhoods have changed out of all recognition, some of which are relatively close.
EU immigration is bad economically for the indigenous population in the areas where the migrants move to en masse, but in time the communities would merge, it is happening a lot already. I disliked us being in the EU mostly because it gave our politicians an easy out whereby they could make promises they had no intention of keeping , then blame the EU, and also because it makes the rich richer and the poor poorer, and when the poor complained they got called some "ist" or other.
I think Islamic immigration is a disaster for Europe, it is causing no end of problems across the continent, who can disagree? If the people doing so were White Mormons, I would say the same. There is no problem with integration with Caribbean immigrants and their descendants, the proof is there whenever you see a person of mixed heritage. You could say the same for many other non Muslim Asian immigrants, you see mixed marriage and children all the time, so its not about colour, its about religion, and its only going to get worse.
I am not going to sit here and say there is no problem with extreme Islam. The solution, such that it is, however, is long and grinding and boring and requires a demonstration that our culture offers more opportunity for better outcomes for more people than, say, orthodox Islam.
Such a fight is certainly not suitable for 24-hour rolling news culture.
I think, as @SeanT has mentioned, that the anti-EU vote was more that people finally had an outlet to register their dissent. I'm not 100% convinced that the politicians will listen and act (and, as you will know, I believe also that the EU is the wrong target).0 -
@TSE
"I've always been in favour of helping to educate the masses.
As a working class Northerner, I know how much a good education can help somebody achieve their potential. "
Ah well, one good short Latin phrase would have wrapped that up. I'm a working class Southerner, and hard graft can sometimes be replaced by a bit of southern nouse.
(I will concede that these are Northern expressions)
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Well I admire your optimism.. the whole thing saddens me... I wish it would work, but I think we are doomedTOPPING said:
Somehow we need to make it obvious to immigrants that our liberal democracy is a better society with better outcomes than the alternative.isam said:@TOPPING
Nice of you to say so.
The place I live has barely changed at all. What angers me is the doing down of people whose neighbourhoods have changed out of all recognition, some of which are relatively close.
EU immigration is bad economically for the indigenous population in the areas where the migrants move to en masse, but in time the communities would merge, it is happening a lot already. I disliked us being in the EU mostly because it gave our politicians an easy out whereby they could make promises they had no intention of keeping , then blame the EU, and also because it makes the rich richer and the poor poorer, and when the poor complained they got called some "ist" or other.
I think Islamic immigration is a disaster for Europe, it is causing no end of problems across the continent, who can disagree? If the people doing so were White Mormons, I would say the same. There is no problem with integration with Caribbean immigrants and their descendants, the proof is there whenever you see a person of mixed heritage. You could say the same for many other non Muslim Asian immigrants, you see mixed marriage and children all the time, so its not about colour, its about religion, and its only going to get worse.
I am not going to sit here and say there is no problem with extreme Islam. The solution, such that it is, however, is long and grinding and boring and requires a demonstration that our culture offers more opportunity for better outcomes for more people than, say, orthodox Islam.
Such a fight is certainly not suitable for 24-hour rolling news culture.
I think, as @SeanT has mentioned, that the anti-EU vote was more that people finally had an outlet to register their dissent. I'm not 100% convinced that the politicians will listen and act (and, as you will know, I believe also that the EU is the wrong target).0 -
I do have a thread coming up headlinedOmnium said:@TSE
"I've always been in favour of helping to educate the masses.
As a working class Northerner, I know how much a good education can help somebody achieve their potential. "
Ah well, one good short Latin phrase would have wrapped that up. I'm a working class Southerner, and hard graft can sometimes be replaced by a bit of southern nouse.
(I will concede that these are Northern expressions)
'Oderint dum metuant'0 -
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I know, two of us did it with Zlatan - that's a bit spooky.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Something similar happened last year, when a few people played triple captain with Sergio Agüero the weekend he scored five against Newcastle.tlg86 said:
I know, two of us did it with Zlatan - that's a bit spooky.TheScreamingEagles said:
So this was the week I transferred in Theo Walcott and Christian Benteke misses a penalty.0 -
Did you hear about the psephologist from Warsaw wot moved to Haiti AND specialised in studying our PM's ratings?
He became a May Poll!0 -
Guess who transfered Blind out of their team this week on the assumption that he was never playing again.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Unlucky.Alistair said:
Guess who transfered Blind out of their team this week on the assumption that he was never playing again.TheScreamingEagles said:
l don't care what my league position in the fantasy football is, all I care about is finishing ahead of Scrapheap.0 -
We also drank English sparkling wine on Christmas Day, and it was excellent.
Vive La Anglapagne!0 -
And cheaper too?0
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A magnum o'piss more like.....RobD said:0 -
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Me. The referendum vote was an act of colossally stupid self multilation. It's implementation should be impeded and reversed by any means necessary.TOPPING said:
Nah give me an example.Charles said:
Too many Remainers give the impression they want to overturn the result.TOPPING said:
I appreciate "clever" points might elude you.Charles said:
Always the same "clever" points.TOPPING said:
So in a general election won by the Conservatives would you condemn all Labour voters for accepting a Conservative government for ever more and not giving up the hope of a future Labour government?isam said:
I am talking about the unedifying way people in the UK who lost the referendum are trying to twist and turn until they find some way of undermining the result.. what are you talking about?TOPPING said:
You should be thrilled that everyone is taking such an interest in the UK's geopolitical place in the world.isam said:It is horribly saddening the undignified way so many of the people who lost the referendum are fighting yesterdays battle.
Weasel words, false pretence, just all so fake.. why don't they just campaign for a second referendum? The idea of a referendum on the terms is so ridiculous I cant believe they are suggesting it! Why don't we have a referendum on every trade deal with a foreign country in that case? That's all the EU is now
Or do you believe there is anything more important facing the country right now?
Labour voters should accept the result of the election and not try to impede the Tories forming the government. The day afterwards they can, of course, campaign for a Labour government to be elected at the next general election.
Similarly Remainers should not impede or seek to impede the decision of the referendum being implemented (as many give the impression they are trying to do). They are, of course, perfectly entitled to try and persuade people to call a referendum and vote to region the EU in future.
What many Remainder are currently doing is akin to trying to persuade members of tge Electoral College to vote for Hillary over Trump. Constitutionally they might be theorectically entitled to do so, but democratically it would be an outrage.
Likewise it's up to anyone who opposes any electoral decision to oppose it whenever they want. No one is seeking to overturn the referendum result. They are seeking to help define the post-referendum landscape.
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Is the Grim Reaper on over-time rates at Christmas?0
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Watched an episode of Vicar of Dibley the other day, a classic series.0
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I'm sure it was absolubtely fabulousFrancisUrquhart said:0 -
You may think that, but I couldn't possibly comment ;-)Pulpstar said:
I'm sure it was absolubtely fabulousFrancisUrquhart said:0 -
Our next thread header.....or not:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/dec/26/queen-did-back-brexit-run-up-to-referendum-laura-kuenssberg0 -
Obama says there will be no "Corbynisation" of the Democrats.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/dec/27/corbyn-hits-back-obama-suggests-labour-disintegrating-grounded-fact-reality0 -
I've already posted this before, but this graph of Ohio median income is striking.
https://infogr.am/ohio_income_vs_us_income0 -
NEW THREAD0
