politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The chances of a 2017 general election have just increased
politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The chances of a 2017 general election have just increased
The Lib Dems have their mojo back. Their result in Witney was good but safe seat or not, second is the best-placed loser. It’s winning that counts and it was a win that was delivered in Richmond Park on Thursday. After more than ten years without a gain, the campaign surge, the tactical votes and the Friday celebration must come as a long-overdue reminder of the good old days – and possibly the good young days. That’s yet to be seen.
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First!0
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Glorious second!0
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If Con wins the Sleaford by-election, Commons majority is actually 14. Add UUP and it's 18. Then add DUP and it's 34. Then add Carswell and it's 36. It's pretty comfortable really.
Position in the Lords is also strengthening. Lab + LD lead over Con is now down to 53 and Lab turnout is always quite a bit lower than Con. Lab + LD rarely have 20 more Peers present than Con.
If Con gets decent Crossbench support they win. LDs may dig heels in but I doubt Crossbenchers will - if they have Parliamentary Ping-Pong into the night and Con keeps a high turnout in the building they should win in the end.
Remember Con won the Lords votes on EU referendum vote at 16 and on the Electoral Registration Act - both against strong Lab + LD opposition. And Con Lords position has strengthened since then.
Also maybe the option of slipping in another 10 to 15 Con Peers in next few months.0 -
Or UKIP peers, perhaps. They deserve a few!MikeL said:If Con wins the Sleaford by-election, Commons majority is actually 14. Add UUP and it's 18. Then add DUP and it's 34. Then add Carswell and it's 36. It's pretty comfortable really.
Position in the Lords is also strengthening. Lab + LD lead over Con is now down to 53 and Lab turnout is always quite a bit lower than Con. Lab + LD rarely have 20 more Peers present than Con.
If Con gets decent Crossbench support they win. LDs may dig heels in but I doubt Crossbenchers will - if they have Parliamentary Ping-Pong into the night and Con keeps a high turnout in the building they should win in the end.
Remember Con won the Lords votes on EU referendum vote at 16 and on the Electoral Registration Act - both against strong Lab + LD opposition. And Con Lords position has strengthened since then.
Also maybe the option of slipping in another 10 to 15 Con Peers in next few months.0 -
Yes. Indeed if Govt loses at the Supreme Court and an Act of Parliament has to be introduced then Theresa May could easily say that it's only fair that UKIP is properly represented when that Bill goes before the Lords. I would have thought it would be easily justifiable to say at least 5 new UKIP Peers should be appointed. Maybe even 10.RobD said:
Or UKIP peers, perhaps. They deserve a few!MikeL said:If Con wins the Sleaford by-election, Commons majority is actually 14. Add UUP and it's 18. Then add DUP and it's 34. Then add Carswell and it's 36. It's pretty comfortable really.
Position in the Lords is also strengthening. Lab + LD lead over Con is now down to 53 and Lab turnout is always quite a bit lower than Con. Lab + LD rarely have 20 more Peers present than Con.
If Con gets decent Crossbench support they win. LDs may dig heels in but I doubt Crossbenchers will - if they have Parliamentary Ping-Pong into the night and Con keeps a high turnout in the building they should win in the end.
Remember Con won the Lords votes on EU referendum vote at 16 and on the Electoral Registration Act - both against strong Lab + LD opposition. And Con Lords position has strengthened since then.
Also maybe the option of slipping in another 10 to 15 Con Peers in next few months.0 -
I think there's a misconception that the Govt will automatically lose big votes in the Lords because the numbers are against them.
The high profile examples in my post below show that that's not always the case.
If Crossbenchers think that the LDs (and maybe Lab) are playing games and tying the Govt's hands in the negotiations it's very likely they will take a pretty dim view of it and if that happens the Govt may well win.
I'm not saying the Govt couldn't lose - they could. But the LDs are going to have to be very, very careful. If they overplay it and alienate the Crossbenchers they will lose.0 -
OK Here's a question - If every voter in every state has equal "worth" in the USA, what would the ECV score have been ?0
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Going by voting-elegible population from this site:Pulpstar said:OK Here's a question - If every voter in every state has equal "worth" in the USA, what would the ECV score have been ?
http://www.electproject.org/home/voter-turnout/voter-turnout-data
Clinton 229.89
Trump 308.11
That's 538 votes divided amongst the states exactly in proportion to their voting-eligible population.
Edit: the sum didn't add up to 538, so fixed that!0 -
HehRobD said:
Going by voting-elegible population from this site:Pulpstar said:OK Here's a question - If every voter in every state has equal "worth" in the USA, what would the ECV score have been ?
http://www.electproject.org/home/voter-turnout/voter-turnout-data
Clinton 229.89
Trump 308.11
That's 538 votes divided amongst the states exactly in proportion to their voting-eligible population.
Edit: the sum didn't add up to 538, so fixed that!
If it was done amongst actual voters (Ignore the theoretical perversion that if you're voting for Donald in California or Hillary in Texas you're actually harming your own candidate a second)
Trump: 305.8391285
Clinton: 232.1608715
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Must say, it is very amusing that if the college was MORE proportional, it'd be better for Trump. LOLPulpstar said:
HehRobD said:
Going by voting-elegible population from this site:Pulpstar said:OK Here's a question - If every voter in every state has equal "worth" in the USA, what would the ECV score have been ?
http://www.electproject.org/home/voter-turnout/voter-turnout-data
Clinton 229.89
Trump 308.11
That's 538 votes divided amongst the states exactly in proportion to their voting-eligible population.
Edit: the sum didn't add up to 538, so fixed that!
If it was done amongst actual voters (Ignore the theoretical perversion that if you're voting for Donald in California or Hillary in Texas you're actually harming your own candidate a second)
Trump: 305.8391285
Clinton: 232.1608715
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That isn't in the script!RobD said:
Must say, it is very amusing that if the college was MORE proportional, it'd be better for Trump. LOLPulpstar said:
HehRobD said:
Going by voting-elegible population from this site:Pulpstar said:OK Here's a question - If every voter in every state has equal "worth" in the USA, what would the ECV score have been ?
http://www.electproject.org/home/voter-turnout/voter-turnout-data
Clinton 229.89
Trump 308.11
That's 538 votes divided amongst the states exactly in proportion to their voting-eligible population.
Edit: the sum didn't add up to 538, so fixed that!
If it was done amongst actual voters (Ignore the theoretical perversion that if you're voting for Donald in California or Hillary in Texas you're actually harming your own candidate a second)
Trump: 305.8391285
Clinton: 232.16087150 -
Lionel Messi, Cristiano Ronaldo, Antoine Griezmann vie for FIFA award. http://q.gs/AjtDx0
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I wonder, who is in contention for the most corrupt FIFA official award?sha911 said:Lionel Messi, Cristiano Ronaldo, Antoine Griezmann vie for FIFA award. http://q.gs/AjtDx
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Do we have any intelligence from Lincolnshire? Haven't seen any informed opinion so far.MikeL said:If Con wins the Sleaford by-election, Commons majority is actually 14. Add UUP and it's 18. Then add DUP and it's 34. Then add Carswell and it's 36. It's pretty comfortable really.
Position in the Lords is also strengthening. Lab + LD lead over Con is now down to 53 and Lab turnout is always quite a bit lower than Con. Lab + LD rarely have 20 more Peers present than Con.
If Con gets decent Crossbench support they win. LDs may dig heels in but I doubt Crossbenchers will - if they have Parliamentary Ping-Pong into the night and Con keeps a high turnout in the building they should win in the end.
Remember Con won the Lords votes on EU referendum vote at 16 and on the Electoral Registration Act - both against strong Lab + LD opposition. And Con Lords position has strengthened since then.
Also maybe the option of slipping in another 10 to 15 Con Peers in next few months.0 -
The liberal metropolitan elite don't know where Sleaford is.OldKingCole said:Do we have any intelligence from Lincolnshire? Haven't seen any informed opinion so far.
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In fairness, nor do I beyond knowing it's somewhere in Lincolnshire.tlg86 said:
The liberal metropolitan elite don't know where Sleaford is.OldKingCole said:Do we have any intelligence from Lincolnshire? Haven't seen any informed opinion so far.
Mind you, I'd also be sadly puzzled if you told me to go to the attractive part of London.0 -
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-38184599
"The Bank of England declined to say whether there was a legal obligation to accept the notes."
Last time I checked, Bank of England banknotes were legal tender that can not be refused for payment of goods/services.0 -
The GE would bring MORE Brexit MPs, as on a constituency basis Brexit has massive, massive majorities. (Something like 401 independence, 231 sell out to Brussels)0
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I presume for consistency that they are searching anyone for leather items. And being concerned about wool, dairy and eggs.RobD said:http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-38184599
"The Bank of England declined to say whether there was a legal obligation to accept the notes."
Last time I checked, Bank of England banknotes were legal tender that can not be refused for payment of goods/services.0 -
And stopping people bringing books in.matt said:
I presume for consistency that they are searching anyone for leather items. And being concerned about wool, dairy and eggs.RobD said:http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-38184599
"The Bank of England declined to say whether there was a legal obligation to accept the notes."
Last time I checked, Bank of England banknotes were legal tender that can not be refused for payment of goods/services.0 -
Ah, the first cuckoo of Spring and it is not even Christmas, how sweet. People voted for Brexit without appreciating the pain that comes with it. As that becomes apparent even 23,000 majorities crumble. I take it your definition of massive, massive is the same as the rest of us would say nano and milli. Brexit it finished, it has passed on, it is no more, it has ceased to be, it's passed its expiry date and gone to meet's makers in the dustbin of time. Sure a few Luddites will espouse its virtues, just as with the Emperor's New Clothes, but the wise have seen through it.dogbasket said:The GE would bring MORE Brexit MPs, as on a constituency basis Brexit has massive, massive majorities. (Something like 401 independence, 231 sell out to Brussels)
We'll have Brexit-lite now; EEA membership and freedom of movement for 'some'. (I don't remember the Referendum being about our EEA membership, only EU). So we may get a bum deal and be worse off but hey ho that's what those who voted to leave appreciated would happen.
So who would want to vote for a party set on pushing gruel down your throat? i.e. no election in 2017.0 -
Yet the majority for Remain in Richmond Park got slashed....Ally_B said:
Ah, the first cuckoo of Spring and it is not even Christmas, how sweet. People voted for Brexit without appreciating the pain that comes with it. As that becomes apparent even 23,000 majorities crumble. I take it your definition of massive, massive is the same as the rest of us would say nano and milli. Brexit it finished, it has passed on, it is no more, it has ceased to be, it's passed its expiry date and gone to meet's makers in the dustbin of time. Sure a few Luddites will espouse its virtues, just as with the Emperor's New Clothes, but the wise have seen through it.dogbasket said:The GE would bring MORE Brexit MPs, as on a constituency basis Brexit has massive, massive majorities. (Something like 401 independence, 231 sell out to Brussels)
We'll have Brexit-lite now; EEA membership and freedom of movement for 'some'. (I don't remember the Referendum being about our EEA membership, only EU). So we may get a bum deal and be worse off but hey ho that's what those who voted to leave appreciated would happen.
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I'm unconvinced that, regardless of the in-principle merits of the argument, pain and Richmond run together.RobD said:
Yet the majority for Remain in Richmond Park got slashed....Ally_B said:
Ah, the first cuckoo of Spring and it is not even Christmas, how sweet. People voted for Brexit without appreciating the pain that comes with it. As that becomes apparent even 23,000 majorities crumble. I take it your definition of massive, massive is the same as the rest of us would say nano and milli. Brexit it finished, it has passed on, it is no more, it has ceased to be, it's passed its expiry date and gone to meet's makers in the dustbin of time. Sure a few Luddites will espouse its virtues, just as with the Emperor's New Clothes, but the wise have seen through it.dogbasket said:The GE would bring MORE Brexit MPs, as on a constituency basis Brexit has massive, massive majorities. (Something like 401 independence, 231 sell out to Brussels)
We'll have Brexit-lite now; EEA membership and freedom of movement for 'some'. (I don't remember the Referendum being about our EEA membership, only EU). So we may get a bum deal and be worse off but hey ho that's what those who voted to leave appreciated would happen.0 -
A 2017 GE seems to be exactly the type of courageous and exciting thing that TMay would never do.
I tried to imagine what the government's A50/Brexit plan is and have been forced to the conclusion that there isn't one; they are just busking it. That's why I think they would quietly welcome a few spanners in the works from the Supreme Court and the Lords. It would push back A50 toward the 2020 election by which time enough Leavers will have died of old age (1.3% of the UK population die every year, simple demographics dictate that the vast majority of them are Leavers) to make a 2nd referendum palatable and a Remain result inevitable.0 -
This demographic argument has been used for donkeys years regarding the Tories, and look where we are now.Dura_Ace said:A 2017 GE seems to be exactly the type of courageous and exciting thing that TMay would never do.
I tried to imagine what the government's A50/Brexit plan is and have been forced to the conclusion that there isn't one; they are just busking it. That's why I think they would quietly welcome a few spanners in the works from the Supreme Court and the Lords. It would push back A50 toward the 2020 election by which time enough Leavers will have died of old age (1.3% of the UK population die every year, simple demographics dictate that the vast majority of them are Leavers) to make a 2nd referendum palatable and a Remain result inevitable.0 -
Presumably the Rainbow cafe is not obliged to accept leather items in payment for its products? People have the right to express their beliefs, and like other Britons not required to be consistent.matt said:
I presume for consistency that they are searching anyone for leather items. And being concerned about wool, dairy and eggs.RobD said:http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-38184599
"The Bank of England declined to say whether there was a legal obligation to accept the notes."
Last time I checked, Bank of England banknotes were legal tender that can not be refused for payment of goods/services.
The tallow fivers are becoming an issue in Leicester, not just with Hindus and Sikhs. There are lots of white vegetarians too.0 -
Except bank notes are legal tender.foxinsoxuk said:
Presumably the Rainbow cafe is not obliged to accept leather items in payment for its products? People have the right to express their beliefs, and like other Britons not required to be consistent.matt said:
I presume for consistency that they are searching anyone for leather items. And being concerned about wool, dairy and eggs.RobD said:http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-38184599
"The Bank of England declined to say whether there was a legal obligation to accept the notes."
Last time I checked, Bank of England banknotes were legal tender that can not be refused for payment of goods/services.
The tallow fivers are becoming an issue in Leicester, not just with Hindus and Sikhs. There are lots of white vegetarians too.0 -
The statement from the owner was that they don't want animal products in their shop.foxinsoxuk said:
Presumably the Rainbow cafe is not obliged to accept leather items in payment for its products? People have the right to express their beliefs, and like other Britons not required to be consistent.matt said:
I presume for consistency that they are searching anyone for leather items. And being concerned about wool, dairy and eggs.RobD said:http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-38184599
"The Bank of England declined to say whether there was a legal obligation to accept the notes."
Last time I checked, Bank of England banknotes were legal tender that can not be refused for payment of goods/services.
The tallow fivers are becoming an issue in Leicester, not just with Hindus and Sikhs. There are lots of white vegetarians too.
Snarky edit: unlike a number of posters here I read articles before commenting....
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I wonder if we will get a hard or soft LibDem in Richmond? Given the Lib Dem only just won with a very small majority that doesn't count of course (following Remain logic). When's By election 2 in Richmond to be held then as the stupid voters had no idea what they were voting for of course or the outcomes?RobD said:
Yet the majority for Remain in Richmond Park got slashed....Ally_B said:
Ah, the first cuckoo of Spring and it is not even Christmas, how sweet. People voted for Brexit without appreciating the pain that comes with it. As that becomes apparent even 23,000 majorities crumble. I take it your definition of massive, massive is the same as the rest of us would say nano and milli. Brexit it finished, it has passed on, it is no more, it has ceased to be, it's passed its expiry date and gone to meet's makers in the dustbin of time. Sure a few Luddites will espouse its virtues, just as with the Emperor's New Clothes, but the wise have seen through it.dogbasket said:The GE would bring MORE Brexit MPs, as on a constituency basis Brexit has massive, massive majorities. (Something like 401 independence, 231 sell out to Brussels)
We'll have Brexit-lite now; EEA membership and freedom of movement for 'some'. (I don't remember the Referendum being about our EEA membership, only EU). So we may get a bum deal and be worse off but hey ho that's what those who voted to leave appreciated would happen.
The hypocrisy remains though as it's a small majority so it should be rerun and legal action in the courts should be taken to ensure the Okney Islands Parish council can determine the positioning of the 3rd runway at Heathrow irrespective of the voters preferred democratic wishes.
Alternatively I suppose none of that applies here because the voters have been deemed to have "voted the correct way".
* Still glad Zac got stuffed by the way ......he deserved it.0 -
And also, I thought it was established that shop keepers aren't allowed to express their own beliefs, given the court case in Northern Ireland?foxinsoxuk said:
Presumably the Rainbow cafe is not obliged to accept leather items in payment for its products? People have the right to express their beliefs, and like other Britons not required to be consistent.matt said:
I presume for consistency that they are searching anyone for leather items. And being concerned about wool, dairy and eggs.RobD said:http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-38184599
"The Bank of England declined to say whether there was a legal obligation to accept the notes."
Last time I checked, Bank of England banknotes were legal tender that can not be refused for payment of goods/services.
The tallow fivers are becoming an issue in Leicester, not just with Hindus and Sikhs. There are lots of white vegetarians too.0 -
I don't believe, and I could be wrong, that there is an inexorable drift toward the moral and intellectual bankruptcy of the Leave position with age. People don't move from one position to the other in significant numbers.RobD said:
This demographic argument has been used for donkeys years regarding the Tories, and look where we are now.
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The treandline is well established. We went from 2/3 remain to under 1/2 remain in 40 years.Dura_Ace said:
I don't believe, and I could be wrong, that there is an inexorable drift toward the moral and intellectual bankruptcy of the Leave position with age. People don't move from one position to the other in significant numbers.RobD said:
This demographic argument has been used for donkeys years regarding the Tories, and look where we are now.
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I read the article too.matt said:
The statement from the owner was that they don't want animal products in their shop.foxinsoxuk said:
Presumably the Rainbow cafe is not obliged to accept leather items in payment for its products? People have the right to express their beliefs, and like other Britons not required to be consistent.matt said:
I presume for consistency that they are searching anyone for leather items. And being concerned about wool, dairy and eggs.RobD said:http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-38184599
"The Bank of England declined to say whether there was a legal obligation to accept the notes."
Last time I checked, Bank of England banknotes were legal tender that can not be refused for payment of goods/services.
The tallow fivers are becoming an issue in Leicester, not just with Hindus and Sikhs. There are lots of white vegetarians too.
Snarky edit: unlike a number of posters here I read articles before commenting....
Clearlly you do not understand why vegetarians (whether driven by religious or other beliefs) do not want to have to have to handle non-veg banknotes. I do.0 -
So do you think there will be enough Remain to Leave switchers over the next few years to compensate for the merciless swing of the reaper's scythe as it mows down oldies? Given just how smoothly the process is proceeding so far...RobD said:
The treandline is well established. We went from 2/3 remain to under 1/2 remain in 40 years.
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I quite understand it. They remain hypocrites.foxinsoxuk said:
I read the article too.matt said:
The statement from the owner was that they don't want animal products in their shop.foxinsoxuk said:
Presumably the Rainbow cafe is not obliged to accept leather items in payment for its products? People have the right to express their beliefs, and like other Britons not required to be consistent.matt said:
I presume for consistency that they are searching anyone for leather items. And being concerned about wool, dairy and eggs.RobD said:http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-38184599
"The Bank of England declined to say whether there was a legal obligation to accept the notes."
Last time I checked, Bank of England banknotes were legal tender that can not be refused for payment of goods/services.
The tallow fivers are becoming an issue in Leicester, not just with Hindus and Sikhs. There are lots of white vegetarians too.
Snarky edit: unlike a number of posters here I read articles before commenting....
Clearlly you do not understand why vegetarians (whether driven by religious or other beliefs) do not want to have to have to handle non-veg banknotes. I do.
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I think it's a moot point as there won't be a second referendum.Dura_Ace said:
So do you think there will be enough Remain to Leave switchers over the next few years to compensate for the merciless swing of the reaper's scythe as it mows down oldies? Given just how smoothly the process is proceeding so far...RobD said:
The treandline is well established. We went from 2/3 remain to under 1/2 remain in 40 years.
Welcome, by the way!0 -
It isn't proportional, if I'm following your conversation correctly, because the vote is still indirect. You are voting representatives on a FPTP basis at the state level. A proportional vote, which is how most countries vote their presidents would see Clinton win. Just.RobD said:
Must say, it is very amusing that if the college was MORE proportional, it'd be better for Trump. LOLPulpstar said:
HehRobD said:
Going by voting-elegible population from this site:Pulpstar said:OK Here's a question - If every voter in every state has equal "worth" in the USA, what would the ECV score have been ?
http://www.electproject.org/home/voter-turnout/voter-turnout-data
Clinton 229.89
Trump 308.11
That's 538 votes divided amongst the states exactly in proportion to their voting-eligible population.
Edit: the sum didn't add up to 538, so fixed that!
If it was done amongst actual voters (Ignore the theoretical perversion that if you're voting for Donald in California or Hillary in Texas you're actually harming your own candidate a second)
Trump: 305.8391285
Clinton: 232.16087150 -
It is more proportional then the current allocation, that is all I was sayingFF43 said:
It isn't proportional, if I'm following your conversation correctly, because the vote is still indirect. You are voting representatives on a FPTP basis at the state level. A proportional vote, which is how most countries vote their presidents would see Clinton win. Just.RobD said:
Must say, it is very amusing that if the college was MORE proportional, it'd be better for Trump. LOLPulpstar said:
HehRobD said:
Going by voting-elegible population from this site:Pulpstar said:OK Here's a question - If every voter in every state has equal "worth" in the USA, what would the ECV score have been ?
http://www.electproject.org/home/voter-turnout/voter-turnout-data
Clinton 229.89
Trump 308.11
That's 538 votes divided amongst the states exactly in proportion to their voting-eligible population.
Edit: the sum didn't add up to 538, so fixed that!
If it was done amongst actual voters (Ignore the theoretical perversion that if you're voting for Donald in California or Hillary in Texas you're actually harming your own candidate a second)
Trump: 305.8391285
Clinton: 232.1608715
A 100% proportional system would have obviously seen Clinton winning.0 -
It is a free country, we are entitled to our hypocrisy.matt said:
I quite understand it. They remain hypocrites.foxinsoxuk said:
I read the article too.matt said:
The statement from the owner was that they don't want animal products in their shop.foxinsoxuk said:
Presumably the Rainbow cafe is not obliged to accept leather items in payment for its products? People have the right to express their beliefs, and like other Britons not required to be consistent.matt said:
I presume for consistency that they are searching anyone for leather items. And being concerned about wool, dairy and eggs.RobD said:http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-38184599
"The Bank of England declined to say whether there was a legal obligation to accept the notes."
Last time I checked, Bank of England banknotes were legal tender that can not be refused for payment of goods/services.
The tallow fivers are becoming an issue in Leicester, not just with Hindus and Sikhs. There are lots of white vegetarians too.
Snarky edit: unlike a number of posters here I read articles before commenting....
Clearlly you do not understand why vegetarians (whether driven by religious or other beliefs) do not want to have to have to handle non-veg banknotes. I do.
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I doubt if it matters much what the UK govt's Brexit negotiating position is. I expect a Hard Brexit, because at least some of the remaining 27 EU members want to punish the UK and a degree of unanimity is required to ratify any agreement or to extend negotiations beyond the 2 year deadline after A50 has been triggered, if no agreement has been ratified by then.0
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A pharmacist, told me the pill casings used in her hospital were made from pork gelatine. I thought that was a hostage to fortune as patients have no choice but to consume them.foxinsoxuk said:
Presumably the Rainbow cafe is not obliged to accept leather items in payment for its products? People have the right to express their beliefs, and like other Britons not required to be consistent.matt said:
I presume for consistency that they are searching anyone for leather items. And being concerned about wool, dairy and eggs.RobD said:http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-38184599
"The Bank of England declined to say whether there was a legal obligation to accept the notes."
Last time I checked, Bank of England banknotes were legal tender that can not be refused for payment of goods/services.
The tallow fivers are becoming an issue in Leicester, not just with Hindus and Sikhs. There are lots of white vegetarians too.0 -
he polling on the Leave/Remain issue has had big swings over the years, not associated with mortality. People do change their minds, and after Hard Brexit I expect a drift to pro-EU in the UK.Dura_Ace said:
I don't believe, and I could be wrong, that there is an inexorable drift toward the moral and intellectual bankruptcy of the Leave position with age. People don't move from one position to the other in significant numbers.RobD said:
This demographic argument has been used for donkeys years regarding the Tories, and look where we are now.0 -
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Is unananimity required for all deals? I thought it was only for deals where a treaty change would be required..daodao said:I doubt if it matters much what the UK govt's Brexit negotiating position is. I expect a Hard Brexit, because at least some of the remaining 27 EU members want to punish the UK and a degree of unanimity is required to ratify any agreement or to extend negotiations beyond the 2 year deadline after A50 has been triggered, if no agreement has been ratified by then.
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No, just a qualified majority for an article 50 negotiationrkrkrk said:
Is unananimity required for all deals? I thought it was only for deals where a treaty change would be required..daodao said:I doubt if it matters much what the UK govt's Brexit negotiating position is. I expect a Hard Brexit, because at least some of the remaining 27 EU members want to punish the UK and a degree of unanimity is required to ratify any agreement or to extend negotiations beyond the 2 year deadline after A50 has been triggered, if no agreement has been ratified by then.
That agreement shall be negotiated in accordance with Article 218(3) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union. It shall be concluded on behalf of the Union by the Council, acting by a qualified majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament."
Edit:
Sorry.. extension DOES require unanimity amongst the Council members:
The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period.0 -
Quite true:FF43 said:
A pharmacist, told me the pill casings used in her hospital were made from pork gelatine. I thought that was a hostage to fortune as patients have no choice but to consume them.foxinsoxuk said:
Presumably the Rainbow cafe is not obliged to accept leather items in payment for its products? People have the right to express their beliefs, and like other Britons not required to be consistent.matt said:
I presume for consistency that they are searching anyone for leather items. And being concerned about wool, dairy and eggs.RobD said:http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-38184599
"The Bank of England declined to say whether there was a legal obligation to accept the notes."
Last time I checked, Bank of England banknotes were legal tender that can not be refused for payment of goods/services.
The tallow fivers are becoming an issue in Leicester, not just with Hindus and Sikhs. There are lots of white vegetarians too.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2107362/Thousands-vegetarians-eating-gelatin-products-medicines-realising.html
The fiver issue is that there is a perfectly viable alternative. Tenners and coins.0 -
You can ask someone to pay with other notes/coins. You can't force them to.foxinsoxuk said:
Quite true:FF43 said:
A pharmacist, told me the pill casings used in her hospital were made from pork gelatine. I thought that was a hostage to fortune as patients have no choice but to consume them.foxinsoxuk said:
Presumably the Rainbow cafe is not obliged to accept leather items in payment for its products? People have the right to express their beliefs, and like other Britons not required to be consistent.matt said:
I presume for consistency that they are searching anyone for leather items. And being concerned about wool, dairy and eggs.RobD said:http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-38184599
"The Bank of England declined to say whether there was a legal obligation to accept the notes."
Last time I checked, Bank of England banknotes were legal tender that can not be refused for payment of goods/services.
The tallow fivers are becoming an issue in Leicester, not just with Hindus and Sikhs. There are lots of white vegetarians too.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2107362/Thousands-vegetarians-eating-gelatin-products-medicines-realising.html
The fiver issue is that there is a perfectly viable alternative. Tenners and coins.0 -
Tells you all you need to know about the new Lib Dem MP.
Now this really is a car crash, pile up interview and exposes the utter total hypocrisy of remain and the new Richmond MP in all its glorious colour.
http://order-order.com/2016/12/02/sarah-olney-walks-interview-spin-doctor-intervenes/#disqus_thread0 -
Not the case. The Trump strategy would have been different. He's said so; political planners would do so.RobD said:
It is more proportional then the current allocation, that is all I was sayingFF43 said:
It isn't proportional, if I'm following your conversation correctly, because the vote is still indirect. You are voting representatives on a FPTP basis at the state level. A proportional vote, which is how most countries vote their presidents would see Clinton win. Just.RobD said:
Must say, it is very amusing that if the college was MORE proportional, it'd be better for Trump. LOLPulpstar said:
HehRobD said:
Going by voting-elegible population from this site:Pulpstar said:OK Here's a question - If every voter in every state has equal "worth" in the USA, what would the ECV score have been ?
http://www.electproject.org/home/voter-turnout/voter-turnout-data
Clinton 229.89
Trump 308.11
That's 538 votes divided amongst the states exactly in proportion to their voting-eligible population.
Edit: the sum didn't add up to 538, so fixed that!
If it was done amongst actual voters (Ignore the theoretical perversion that if you're voting for Donald in California or Hillary in Texas you're actually harming your own candidate a second)
Trump: 305.8391285
Clinton: 232.1608715
A 100% proportional system would have obviously seen Clinton winning.0 -
They're avoiding headlines like "Carney forces vegans to accept 'tainted' notes"RobD said:http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-38184599
"The Bank of England declined to say whether there was a legal obligation to accept the notes."
Last time I checked, Bank of England banknotes were legal tender that can not be refused for payment of goods/services.
You know they are not actually going to change anything, they've just booted it into the long grass0 -
Sorry, a 100% proportional system with the current numbers would have seen her winning. But you are totally right that they wouldn't have wasted any time in WI or MI trying to get votes, it would have been 100% in the cities, all the time.Dixie said:
Not the case. The Trump strategy would have been different. He's said so; political planners would do so.RobD said:
It is more proportional then the current allocation, that is all I was sayingFF43 said:
It isn't proportional, if I'm following your conversation correctly, because the vote is still indirect. You are voting representatives on a FPTP basis at the state level. A proportional vote, which is how most countries vote their presidents would see Clinton win. Just.RobD said:
Must say, it is very amusing that if the college was MORE proportional, it'd be better for Trump. LOLPulpstar said:
HehRobD said:
Going by voting-elegible population from this site:Pulpstar said:OK Here's a question - If every voter in every state has equal "worth" in the USA, what would the ECV score have been ?
http://www.electproject.org/home/voter-turnout/voter-turnout-data
Clinton 229.89
Trump 308.11
That's 538 votes divided amongst the states exactly in proportion to their voting-eligible population.
Edit: the sum didn't add up to 538, so fixed that!
If it was done amongst actual voters (Ignore the theoretical perversion that if you're voting for Donald in California or Hillary in Texas you're actually harming your own candidate a second)
Trump: 305.8391285
Clinton: 232.1608715
A 100% proportional system would have obviously seen Clinton winning.0 -
If you missed it
Elliot Wagland
The Sarah Olney and Tim Farron face swap is amazing #RichmondPark https://t.co/l9yAozqISv0 -
In tbeory yes, but the EU27 have taken the position that they act as one in tbe negotiations. I expect that disagreements over issues will be resolved by internal discussion and deals rather than by voting. That is how negotiations work in the EU.rkrkrk said:
Is unananimity required for all deals? I thought it was only for deals where a treaty change would be required..daodao said:I doubt if it matters much what the UK govt's Brexit negotiating position is. I expect a Hard Brexit, because at least some of the remaining 27 EU members want to punish the UK and a degree of unanimity is required to ratify any agreement or to extend negotiations beyond the 2 year deadline after A50 has been triggered, if no agreement has been ratified by then.
Whether our own hopelessly divided and dithering government can arrive at a unanimous position on our side of the table may well be a different kettle of fish.0 -
Richmond was not a Brexit response. It was a lot of residents not backing Zac because he was acting foolishly. And Zac not having a ground game, as no Independent can.RobD said:
Yet the majority for Remain in Richmond Park got slashed....Ally_B said:
Ah, the first cuckoo of Spring and it is not even Christmas, how sweet. People voted for Brexit without appreciating the pain that comes with it. As that becomes apparent even 23,000 majorities crumble. I take it your definition of massive, massive is the same as the rest of us would say nano and milli. Brexit it finished, it has passed on, it is no more, it has ceased to be, it's passed its expiry date and gone to meet's makers in the dustbin of time. Sure a few Luddites will espouse its virtues, just as with the Emperor's New Clothes, but the wise have seen through it.dogbasket said:The GE would bring MORE Brexit MPs, as on a constituency basis Brexit has massive, massive majorities. (Something like 401 independence, 231 sell out to Brussels)
We'll have Brexit-lite now; EEA membership and freedom of movement for 'some'. (I don't remember the Referendum being about our EEA membership, only EU). So we may get a bum deal and be worse off but hey ho that's what those who voted to leave appreciated would happen.0 -
An exit agreement can be done by QMV, but it doesn't seem to be entirely clear how much this can include. There are lots of things that normally require unanimity:rkrkrk said:
Is unananimity required for all deals? I thought it was only for deals where a treaty change would be required..daodao said:I doubt if it matters much what the UK govt's Brexit negotiating position is. I expect a Hard Brexit, because at least some of the remaining 27 EU members want to punish the UK and a degree of unanimity is required to ratify any agreement or to extend negotiations beyond the 2 year deadline after A50 has been triggered, if no agreement has been ratified by then.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_in_the_Council_of_the_European_Union
Some knowledgeable people seem to be saying that a free trade agreement would require unanimity, even if a deal covering who pays Neil Kinnock's pension etc had already been agreed by QMV.0 -
I can understand strict vegans getting upset* but why vegetarians?foxinsoxuk said:
Presumably the Rainbow cafe is not obliged to accept leather items in payment for its products? People have the right to express their beliefs, and like other Britons not required to be consistent.matt said:
I presume for consistency that they are searching anyone for leather items. And being concerned about wool, dairy and eggs.RobD said:http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-38184599
"The Bank of England declined to say whether there was a legal obligation to accept the notes."
Last time I checked, Bank of England banknotes were legal tender that can not be refused for payment of goods/services.
The tallow fivers are becoming an issue in Leicester, not just with Hindus and Sikhs. There are lots of white vegetarians too.
* actually, on reflection, I can't. They just need to grow up0 -
A better analogy would be if a coalition of parties put up a TBI candidate. You voted for him/her and they told you which party and which policies you were getting afterwards.Moses_ said:
I wonder if we will get a hard or soft LibDem in Richmond? Given the Lib Dem only just won with a very small majority that doesn't count of course (following Remain logic). When's By election 2 in Richmond to be held then as the stupid voters had no idea what they were voting for of course or the outcomes?RobD said:
Yet the majority for Remain in Richmond Park got slashed....Ally_B said:
Ah, the first cuckoo of Spring and it is not even Christmas, how sweet. People voted for Brexit without appreciating the pain that comes with it. As that becomes apparent even 23,000 majorities crumble. I take it your definition of massive, massive is the same as the rest of us would say nano and milli. Brexit it finished, it has passed on, it is no more, it has ceased to be, it's passed its expiry date and gone to meet's makers in the dustbin of time. Sure a few Luddites will espouse its virtues, just as with the Emperor's New Clothes, but the wise have seen through it.dogbasket said:The GE would bring MORE Brexit MPs, as on a constituency basis Brexit has massive, massive majorities. (Something like 401 independence, 231 sell out to Brussels)
We'll have Brexit-lite now; EEA membership and freedom of movement for 'some'. (I don't remember the Referendum being about our EEA membership, only EU). So we may get a bum deal and be worse off but hey ho that's what those who voted to leave appreciated would happen.
The hypocrisy remains though as it's a small majority so it should be rerun and legal action in the courts should be taken to ensure the Okney Islands Parish council can determine the positioning of the 3rd runway at Heathrow irrespective of the voters preferred democratic wishes.
Alternatively I suppose none of that applies here because the voters have been deemed to have "voted the correct way".
* Still glad Zac got stuffed by the way ......he deserved it.0 -
The appetite, and indeed the time, just isn't there for "Canada" style free trade deals. That applies to third parties as well as the EU. The basic choice is stay in the EU system on their grace and favour, or trade on a Most Favoured Nation basis with everyone, including the EU.rkrkrk said:
Is unananimity required for all deals? I thought it was only for deals where a treaty change would be required..daodao said:I doubt if it matters much what the UK govt's Brexit negotiating position is. I expect a Hard Brexit, because at least some of the remaining 27 EU members want to punish the UK and a degree of unanimity is required to ratify any agreement or to extend negotiations beyond the 2 year deadline after A50 has been triggered, if no agreement has been ratified by then.
The government are in denial. Hence all this business about not revealing any plans or involving Parliament.0 -
As Dr F says, quite true. And most ingredients of 'not tested on animals" cosmetics" have at some point been tested on animals.foxinsoxuk said:
Quite true:FF43 said:
A pharmacist, told me the pill casings used in her hospital were made from pork gelatine. I thought that was a hostage to fortune as patients have no choice but to consume them.foxinsoxuk said:
Presumably the Rainbow cafe is not obliged to accept leather items in payment for its products? People have the right to express their beliefs, and like other Britons not required to be consistent.matt said:
I presume for consistency that they are searching anyone for leather items. And being concerned about wool, dairy and eggs.RobD said:http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-38184599
"The Bank of England declined to say whether there was a legal obligation to accept the notes."
Last time I checked, Bank of England banknotes were legal tender that can not be refused for payment of goods/services.
The tallow fivers are becoming an issue in Leicester, not just with Hindus and Sikhs. There are lots of white vegetarians too.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2107362/Thousands-vegetarians-eating-gelatin-products-medicines-realising.html
The fiver issue is that there is a perfectly viable alternative. Tenners and coins.
On one or two occasions in my life I've had people who had issues with gelatine capsules, and with pork or beef insulin (when that was used). Religious people are usually a lot more sensible than (some at least) committed vegans and don't bother.
I have once or twice met a vegan who opened their capsules and just took the ingredients. The medicines themselves of course would have been tested on animals, and might well contain some animal products.0 -
Sarah Olney delivered a lovely body blow to the 1%ers didn't she?PlatoSaid said:If you missed it
Elliot Wagland
The Sarah Olney and Tim Farron face swap is amazing #RichmondPark https://t.co/l9yAozqISv0 -
No it doesn't. It tells you that someone is trying to import American style shock jockery into the UK. Hopefully it won't catch on.Moses_ said:Tells you all you need to know about the new Lib Dem MP.
Now this really is a car crash, pile up interview and exposes the utter total hypocrisy of remain and the new Richmond MP in all its glorious colour.
http://order-order.com/2016/12/02/sarah-olney-walks-interview-spin-doctor-intervenes/#disqus_thread0 -
You can get vegan alternativesFF43 said:
A pharmacist, told me the pill casings used in her hospital were made from pork gelatine. I thought that was a hostage to fortune as patients have no choice but to consume them.foxinsoxuk said:
Presumably the Rainbow cafe is not obliged to accept leather items in payment for its products? People have the right to express their beliefs, and like other Britons not required to be consistent.matt said:
I presume for consistency that they are searching anyone for leather items. And being concerned about wool, dairy and eggs.RobD said:http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-38184599
"The Bank of England declined to say whether there was a legal obligation to accept the notes."
Last time I checked, Bank of England banknotes were legal tender that can not be refused for payment of goods/services.
The tallow fivers are becoming an issue in Leicester, not just with Hindus and Sikhs. There are lots of white vegetarians too.0 -
Yes the problem with this theory is that a GE would force MayDay to say what her preferred form of Brexit is. No more inane "Brexit means Brexit" "no running commentary" soundbites. I suspect she'd rather hang on until 2020 by which time public opinion will most likely have turned decisively against a hard exit.0
-
I think most of us here enjoyed Zac getting defeated in the end.foxinsoxuk said:
Sarah Olney delivered a lovely body blow to the 1%ers didn't she?PlatoSaid said:If you missed it
Elliot Wagland
The Sarah Olney and Tim Farron face swap is amazing #RichmondPark https://t.co/l9yAozqISv
0 -
You can't force people to do much at all. Nor can you force a vendor to sell you anything. It's a complete myth that vendors have to sell you a product with "legal tender" and at the price displayed. Vendors can accept or reject payment in any form as they see fit.RobD said:
You can ask someone to pay with other notes/coins. You can't force them to.foxinsoxuk said:
Quite true:FF43 said:
A pharmacist, told me the pill casings used in her hospital were made from pork gelatine. I thought that was a hostage to fortune as patients have no choice but to consume them.foxinsoxuk said:
Presumably the Rainbow cafe is not obliged to accept leather items in payment for its products? People have the right to express their beliefs, and like other Britons not required to be consistent.matt said:
I presume for consistency that they are searching anyone for leather items. And being concerned about wool, dairy and eggs.RobD said:http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-38184599
"The Bank of England declined to say whether there was a legal obligation to accept the notes."
Last time I checked, Bank of England banknotes were legal tender that can not be refused for payment of goods/services.
The tallow fivers are becoming an issue in Leicester, not just with Hindus and Sikhs. There are lots of white vegetarians too.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2107362/Thousands-vegetarians-eating-gelatin-products-medicines-realising.html
The fiver issue is that there is a perfectly viable alternative. Tenners and coins.0 -
I agree, she will dither as long as she can, and gradually lose authority as a result.Jobabob said:Yes the problem with this theory is that a GE would force MayDay to say what her preferred form of Brexit is. No more inane "Brexit means Brexit" "no running commentary" soundbites. I suspect she'd rather hang on until 2020 by which time public opinion will most likely have turned decisively against a hard exit.
To paraphrase: Brexit delayed means Brexit denied.
The election may well then arrive not at a moment of her own choosing, and elections in the circumstances of government disarray do not tend to be kind to incumbents.
0 -
You can force a vendor to sell you something, as the Asher's case in Northern Island proved.Jobabob said:
You can't force people to do much at all. Nor can you force a vendor to sell you anything. It's a complete myth that vendors have to sell you a product with "legal tender" and at the price displayed. Vendors can accept or reject payment in any form as they see fit.RobD said:
You can ask someone to pay with other notes/coins. You can't force them to.foxinsoxuk said:
Quite true:FF43 said:
A pharmacist, told me the pill casings used in her hospital were made from pork gelatine. I thought that was a hostage to fortune as patients have no choice but to consume them.foxinsoxuk said:
Presumably the Rainbow cafe is not obliged to accept leather items in payment for its products? People have the right to express their beliefs, and like other Britons not required to be consistent.matt said:
I presume for consistency that they are searching anyone for leather items. And being concerned about wool, dairy and eggs.RobD said:http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-38184599
"The Bank of England declined to say whether there was a legal obligation to accept the notes."
Last time I checked, Bank of England banknotes were legal tender that can not be refused for payment of goods/services.
The tallow fivers are becoming an issue in Leicester, not just with Hindus and Sikhs. There are lots of white vegetarians too.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2107362/Thousands-vegetarians-eating-gelatin-products-medicines-realising.html
The fiver issue is that there is a perfectly viable alternative. Tenners and coins.0 -
Unless the situation has changed in the last few years, not easily, and I would expect them to be more expensive and therefore need to be specifically prescribed on the NHS.Charles said:
You can get vegan alternativesFF43 said:
A pharmacist, told me the pill casings used in her hospital were made from pork gelatine. I thought that was a hostage to fortune as patients have no choice but to consume them.foxinsoxuk said:
Presumably the Rainbow cafe is not obliged to accept leather items in payment for its products? People have the right to express their beliefs, and like other Britons not required to be consistent.matt said:
I presume for consistency that they are searching anyone for leather items. And being concerned about wool, dairy and eggs.RobD said:http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-38184599
"The Bank of England declined to say whether there was a legal obligation to accept the notes."
Last time I checked, Bank of England banknotes were legal tender that can not be refused for payment of goods/services.
The tallow fivers are becoming an issue in Leicester, not just with Hindus and Sikhs. There are lots of white vegetarians too.0 -
Good morning, everyone.
Got some more reviews for Kingdom Asunder, still averaging about 4.7 stars
There's a piece here on who might be Hamilton's team mate:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/38185491
If you believe it, ignoring the stupidity of giving three drivers an 8 or 9 out of 10 chance of getting the gig..., then back Bottas (9/10) at 5 on Ladbrokes. I may put a smidgen on, as a saver if it's not Wehrlein. Or not. Undecided as yet.
I'm less convinced Vettel will go. Yes, he'd want to. But would the team want another potentially fractious relationship? Would the Ferrari contract enable him to go? Hmm.0 -
They are not as widely used as they could be. Phamaceutical companies, like banknote printers are not as culturally sensitive as they should be.Charles said:
You can get vegan alternativesFF43 said:
A pharmacist, told me the pill casings used in her hospital were made from pork gelatine. I thought that was a hostage to fortune as patients have no choice but to consume them.foxinsoxuk said:
Presumably the Rainbow cafe is not obliged to accept leather items in payment for its products? People have the right to express their beliefs, and like other Britons not required to be consistent.matt said:
I presume for consistency that they are searching anyone for leather items. And being concerned about wool, dairy and eggs.RobD said:http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-38184599
"The Bank of England declined to say whether there was a legal obligation to accept the notes."
Last time I checked, Bank of England banknotes were legal tender that can not be refused for payment of goods/services.
The tallow fivers are becoming an issue in Leicester, not just with Hindus and Sikhs. There are lots of white vegetarians too.0 -
Vegan softgels are definitely available, and if all else fails you give one of the Specials a call and you'll have it in the pharmacy by 10am the next morning...foxinsoxuk said:
They are not as widely used as they could be. Phamaceutical companies, like banknote printers are not as culturally sensitive as they should be.Charles said:
You can get vegan alternativesFF43 said:
A pharmacist, told me the pill casings used in her hospital were made from pork gelatine. I thought that was a hostage to fortune as patients have no choice but to consume them.foxinsoxuk said:
Presumably the Rainbow cafe is not obliged to accept leather items in payment for its products? People have the right to express their beliefs, and like other Britons not required to be consistent.matt said:
I presume for consistency that they are searching anyone for leather items. And being concerned about wool, dairy and eggs.RobD said:http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-38184599
"The Bank of England declined to say whether there was a legal obligation to accept the notes."
Last time I checked, Bank of England banknotes were legal tender that can not be refused for payment of goods/services.
The tallow fivers are becoming an issue in Leicester, not just with Hindus and Sikhs. There are lots of white vegetarians too.0 -
It probably isn't good for a politician to be at a loss for words. Rare, too, one thinks. Having listened to the piece, I personally think the car crash was more on the side of the interviewer than the interviewee. The questions were utterly inane and served only to show up how ignorant Julia Hartley-Brewer is. I thought Mrs Olney coped OK up to the final blockage, given that she would have been up all night following a gruelling campaign. Obviously she wasn't able to put a stop to it and declare, "This is pants."Moses_ said:Tells you all you need to know about the new Lib Dem MP.
Now this really is a car crash, pile up interview and exposes the utter total hypocrisy of remain and the new Richmond MP in all its glorious colour.
http://order-order.com/2016/12/02/sarah-olney-walks-interview-spin-doctor-intervenes/#disqus_thread
Ms Hartley-Brewer kept going on about how difficult it was to get Mrs Olney to agree to an interview. Mrs Olney should have gone with her instincts0 -
http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/north-east-now-wants-stay-12258741
Before I investigate this myself, has this poll been debunked already? I can't see how opinion can have shifted so far and so fast even in an area which has more to lose than most.0 -
This was the hospital pharmacy. You take what you are given.Charles said:
Vegan softgels are definitely available, and if all else fails you give one of the Specials a call and you'll have it in the pharmacy by 10am the next morning...foxinsoxuk said:
They are not as widely used as they could be. Phamaceutical companies, like banknote printers are not as culturally sensitive as they should be.Charles said:
You can get vegan alternativesFF43 said:
A pharmacist, told me the pill casings used in her hospital were made from pork gelatine. I thought that was a hostage to fortune as patients have no choice but to consume them.foxinsoxuk said:
Presumably the Rainbow cafe is not obliged to accept leather items in payment for its products? People have the right to express their beliefs, and like other Britons not required to be consistent.matt said:
I presume for consistency that they are searching anyone for leather items. And being concerned about wool, dairy and eggs.RobD said:http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-38184599
"The Bank of England declined to say whether there was a legal obligation to accept the notes."
Last time I checked, Bank of England banknotes were legal tender that can not be refused for payment of goods/services.
The tallow fivers are becoming an issue in Leicester, not just with Hindus and Sikhs. There are lots of white vegetarians too.0 -
It's always a pleasure to read David's sober, non-hysterical analysis, identifying perceived challenges without foaming at the mouth, one way or the other. I'm not necessarily convinced that the odds of a ge have increased, but the path to one, and the improbability of outright preventing Brexit from its opponents is sound and well reasoned.0
-
What is "a degree of unanimity "?daodao said:I doubt if it matters much what the UK govt's Brexit negotiating position is. I expect a Hard Brexit, because at least some of the remaining 27 EU members want to punish the UK and a degree of unanimity is required to ratify any agreement or to extend negotiations beyond the 2 year deadline after A50 has been triggered, if no agreement has been ratified by then.
0 -
I'm the first to admit that I'm very out of touch with pharmaceutical practicalities, not having practised in any sense for eight years but I'm as sure as I can be it that to supply a vegan softgel on the NHS one would require it to be specifically prescribed.Charles said:
Vegan softgels are definitely available, and if all else fails you give one of the Specials a call and you'll have it in the pharmacy by 10am the next morning...foxinsoxuk said:
They are not as widely used as they could be. Phamaceutical companies, like banknote printers are not as culturally sensitive as they should be.Charles said:
You can get vegan alternativesFF43 said:
A pharmacist, told me the pill casings used in her hospital were made from pork gelatine. I thought that was a hostage to fortune as patients have no choice but to consume them.foxinsoxuk said:
Presumably the Rainbow cafe is not obliged to accept leather items in payment for its products? People have the right to express their beliefs, and like other Britons not required to be consistent.matt said:
I presume for consistency that they are searching anyone for leather items. And being concerned about wool, dairy and eggs.RobD said:http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-38184599
"The Bank of England declined to say whether there was a legal obligation to accept the notes."
Last time I checked, Bank of England banknotes were legal tender that can not be refused for payment of goods/services.
The tallow fivers are becoming an issue in Leicester, not just with Hindus and Sikhs. There are lots of white vegetarians too.0 -
Hospital pharmacies have specials contracts as well, although they treat the companies very badly and therefore don't get the kind of service that a Boots or Rowlands gets.FF43 said:
This was the hospital pharmacy. You take what you are given.Charles said:
Vegan softgels are definitely available, and if all else fails you give one of the Specials a call and you'll have it in the pharmacy by 10am the next morning...foxinsoxuk said:
They are not as widely used as they could be. Phamaceutical companies, like banknote printers are not as culturally sensitive as they should be.Charles said:
You can get vegan alternativesFF43 said:
A pharmacist, told me the pill casings used in her hospital were made from pork gelatine. I thought that was a hostage to fortune as patients have no choice but to consume them.foxinsoxuk said:
Presumably the Rainbow cafe is not obliged to accept leather items in payment for its products? People have the right to express their beliefs, and like other Britons not required to be consistent.matt said:
I presume for consistency that they are searching anyone for leather items. And being concerned about wool, dairy and eggs.RobD said:http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-38184599
"The Bank of England declined to say whether there was a legal obligation to accept the notes."
Last time I checked, Bank of England banknotes were legal tender that can not be refused for payment of goods/services.
The tallow fivers are becoming an issue in Leicester, not just with Hindus and Sikhs. There are lots of white vegetarians too.0 -
Was this a poll, or a "poll". If it was conducted by a member of the British Polling Council, the data tables should be available somewhere.Recidivist said:http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/north-east-now-wants-stay-12258741
Before I investigate this myself, has this poll been debunked already? I can't see how opinion can have shifted so far and so fast even in an area which has more to lose than most.0 -
Looks like there was some interesting discussion last night on the fate of the millennials. Yes, they have been shafted by housing market, low wages etc., but interestingly they weren't the ones most for out.
Trumpism/Ukippery feels to me like a mix of nostalgia and nihilism. It's smash the house down politics, almost entirely anti, but I do not hear any sense of what people want instead and how they are going to get there. What do you actually want Plato, give me some policies?
It's clear that the fundamental problem is inequality, the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer and this has shifted from a class thing to a generational thing, exacerbated by globalisation. How can you redress this? The same people who weep crocodile tears will accuse any government that tries to do anything about these problems as anti business?
In this context, the vote on Europe is a chimera, Europe is but a symptom of the wider ill that is globalisation. The left would address this, rightly or wrongly through a socislistic solution, but as we've seen that appears not to have electoral support.
I ask again, how will the right tackle this problem?0 -
There was a big swing away from a popular Brexit backing MP elected only last year.RobD said:
Yet the majority for Remain in Richmond Park got slashed....Ally_B said:
Ah, the first cuckoo of Spring and it is not even Christmas, how sweet. People voted for Brexit without appreciating the pain that comes with it. As that becomes apparent even 23,000 majorities crumble. I take it your definition of massive, massive is the same as the rest of us would say nano and milli. Brexit it finished, it has passed on, it is no more, it has ceased to be, it's passed its expiry date and gone to meet's makers in the dustbin of time. Sure a few Luddites will espouse its virtues, just as with the Emperor's New Clothes, but the wise have seen through it.dogbasket said:The GE would bring MORE Brexit MPs, as on a constituency basis Brexit has massive, massive majorities. (Something like 401 independence, 231 sell out to Brussels)
We'll have Brexit-lite now; EEA membership and freedom of movement for 'some'. (I don't remember the Referendum being about our EEA membership, only EU). So we may get a bum deal and be worse off but hey ho that's what those who voted to leave appreciated would happen.
":: Then on Friday, shortly after 2am, Sarah Olney won a spectacular by-election victory and claimed - with good reason - it was Brexit wot won it."
http://news.sky.com/story/richmond-park-by-election-zac-goldsmiths-defeat-is-a-tory-disaster-106796470 -
As I said, I'm almost certainly out of date, but in my day hospital pharmacies usually dealt with their own 'specials', either alone or as part of consortia.Charles said:
Hospital pharmacies have specials contracts as well, although they treat the companies very badly and therefore don't get the kind of service that a Boots or Rowlands gets.FF43 said:
This was the hospital pharmacy. You take what you are given.Charles said:
Vegan softgels are definitely available, and if all else fails you give one of the Specials a call and you'll have it in the pharmacy by 10am the next morning...foxinsoxuk said:
They are not as widely used as they could be. Phamaceutical companies, like banknote printers are not as culturally sensitive as they should be.Charles said:
You can get vegan alternativesFF43 said:
A pharmacist, told me the pill casings used in her hospital were made from pork gelatine. I thought that was a hostage to fortune as patients have no choice but to consume them.foxinsoxuk said:
Presumably the Rainbow cafe is not obliged to accept leather items in payment for its products? People have the right to express their beliefs, and like other Britons not required to be consistent.matt said:
I presume for consistency that they are searching anyone for leather items. And being concerned about wool, dairy and eggs.RobD said:http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-38184599
"The Bank of England declined to say whether there was a legal obligation to accept the notes."
Last time I checked, Bank of England banknotes were legal tender that can not be refused for payment of goods/services.
The tallow fivers are becoming an issue in Leicester, not just with Hindus and Sikhs. There are lots of white vegetarians too.
Edited to prevent the isolated being treated as the norm.0 -
Popular? Evidently not.logical_song said:
There was a big swing away from a popular Brexit backing MP elected only last year.RobD said:
Yet the majority for Remain in Richmond Park got slashed....Ally_B said:
Ah, the first cuckoo of Spring and it is not even Christmas, how sweet. People voted for Brexit without appreciating the pain that comes with it. As that becomes apparent even 23,000 majorities crumble. I take it your definition of massive, massive is the same as the rest of us would say nano and milli. Brexit it finished, it has passed on, it is no more, it has ceased to be, it's passed its expiry date and gone to meet's makers in the dustbin of time. Sure a few Luddites will espouse its virtues, just as with the Emperor's New Clothes, but the wise have seen through it.dogbasket said:The GE would bring MORE Brexit MPs, as on a constituency basis Brexit has massive, massive majorities. (Something like 401 independence, 231 sell out to Brussels)
We'll have Brexit-lite now; EEA membership and freedom of movement for 'some'. (I don't remember the Referendum being about our EEA membership, only EU). So we may get a bum deal and be worse off but hey ho that's what those who voted to leave appreciated would happen.
":: Then on Friday, shortly after 2am, Sarah Olney won a spectacular by-election victory and claimed - with good reason - it was Brexit wot won it."
http://news.sky.com/story/richmond-park-by-election-zac-goldsmiths-defeat-is-a-tory-disaster-106796470 -
Hopefully they go out of business , bunch of absolute toss****matt said:
The statement from the owner was that they don't want animal products in their shop.foxinsoxuk said:
Presumably the Rainbow cafe is not obliged to accept leather items in payment for its products? People have the right to express their beliefs, and like other Britons not required to be consistent.matt said:
I presume for consistency that they are searching anyone for leather items. And being concerned about wool, dairy and eggs.RobD said:http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-38184599
"The Bank of England declined to say whether there was a legal obligation to accept the notes."
Last time I checked, Bank of England banknotes were legal tender that can not be refused for payment of goods/services.
The tallow fivers are becoming an issue in Leicester, not just with Hindus and Sikhs. There are lots of white vegetarians too.
Snarky edit: unlike a number of posters here I read articles before commenting....0 -
Morning malcolm. I take it you haven't had your morning turnip based on that outburst... tittersmalcolmg said:
Hopefully they go out of business , bunch of absolute toss****matt said:
The statement from the owner was that they don't want animal products in their shop.foxinsoxuk said:
Presumably the Rainbow cafe is not obliged to accept leather items in payment for its products? People have the right to express their beliefs, and like other Britons not required to be consistent.matt said:
I presume for consistency that they are searching anyone for leather items. And being concerned about wool, dairy and eggs.RobD said:http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-38184599
"The Bank of England declined to say whether there was a legal obligation to accept the notes."
Last time I checked, Bank of England banknotes were legal tender that can not be refused for payment of goods/services.
The tallow fivers are becoming an issue in Leicester, not just with Hindus and Sikhs. There are lots of white vegetarians too.
Snarky edit: unlike a number of posters here I read articles before commenting.... 0 -
Vintage Marina Hyde in the Guardian:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/dec/03/zac-goldsmith-last-punt-self-loathing-accumulator-richmond-park
'the erstwhile Richmond Park MP has contrived to pull off a stunning shitshow accumulator this year'. LOL.0 -
As someone else sort of posted, what happens if one goes in wearing leather shoes? Alsthough I suppose most of their clients wouldn't buy such.malcolmg said:
Hopefully they go out of business , bunch of absolute toss****matt said:
The statement from the owner was that they don't want animal products in their shop.foxinsoxuk said:
Presumably the Rainbow cafe is not obliged to accept leather items in payment for its products? People have the right to express their beliefs, and like other Britons not required to be consistent.matt said:
I presume for consistency that they are searching anyone for leather items. And being concerned about wool, dairy and eggs.RobD said:http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-38184599
"The Bank of England declined to say whether there was a legal obligation to accept the notes."
Last time I checked, Bank of England banknotes were legal tender that can not be refused for payment of goods/services.
The tallow fivers are becoming an issue in Leicester, not just with Hindus and Sikhs. There are lots of white vegetarians too.
Snarky edit: unlike a number of posters here I read articles before commenting....0 -
Don't recall the media claiming the Conservatives holding Witney was a sign of approval of our departure from the EU, but there we are...
Mr. G, the next ten and twenty pound notes will be made using the same process, I understand. If so, the shop will be limited to coins and fifty pound notes.0 -
Well quite :-)Morris_Dancer said:Don't recall the media claiming the Conservatives holding Witney was a sign of approval of our departure from the EU, but there we are...
0 -
FFS just tell the idiots to get on with it.Charles said:
You can get vegan alternativesFF43 said:
A pharmacist, told me the pill casings used in her hospital were made from pork gelatine. I thought that was a hostage to fortune as patients have no choice but to consume them.foxinsoxuk said:
Presumably the Rainbow cafe is not obliged to accept leather items in payment for its products? People have the right to express their beliefs, and like other Britons not required to be consistent.matt said:
I presume for consistency that they are searching anyone for leather items. And being concerned about wool, dairy and eggs.RobD said:http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-38184599
"The Bank of England declined to say whether there was a legal obligation to accept the notes."
Last time I checked, Bank of England banknotes were legal tender that can not be refused for payment of goods/services.
The tallow fivers are becoming an issue in Leicester, not just with Hindus and Sikhs. There are lots of white vegetarians too.0 -
Is it a bird?
Is it a plane?
Is it an informed change to our trading strategy?
No, it's BREXIT here to save us from the IMMAGRRNTS!
http://webcomicname.tumblr.com/image/1529587559840 -
https://twitter.com/spikedonline/status/804966545051058176Black_Rook said:
Well quite :-)Morris_Dancer said:Don't recall the media claiming the Conservatives holding Witney was a sign of approval of our departure from the EU, but there we are...
0 -
Currently scheduled for May 2020. Because people do change their minds over time, and react to new situations and circumstances.Moses_ said:
I wonder if we will get a hard or soft LibDem in Richmond? Given the Lib Dem only just won with a very small majority that doesn't count of course (following Remain logic). When's By election 2 in Richmond to be held then as the stupid voters had no idea what they were voting for of course or the outcomesRobD said:
Yet the majority for Remain in Richmond Park got slashed....Ally_B said:
Ah, the first cuckoo of Spring and it is not even Christmas, how sweet. People voted for Brexit without appreciating the pain that comes with it. As that becomes apparent even 23,000 majorities crumble. I take it your definition of massive, massive is the same as the rest of us would say nano and milli. Brexit it finished, it has passed on, it is no more, it has ceased to be, it's passed its expiry date and gone to meet's makers in the dustbin of time. Sure a few Luddites will espouse its virtues, just as with the Emperor's New Clothes, but the wise have seen through it.dogbasket said:The GE would bring MORE Brexit MPs, as on a constituency basis Brexit has massive, massive majorities. (Something like 401 independence, 231 sell out to Brussels)
We'll have Brexit-lite now; EEA membership and freedom of movement for 'some'. (I don't remember the Referendum being about our EEA membership, only EU). So we may get a bum deal and be worse off but hey ho that's what those who voted to leave appreciated would happen.
0 -
Well that usually works doesn't itmalcolmg said:
FFS just tell the idiots to get on with it.Charles said:
You can get vegan alternativesFF43 said:
A pharmacist, told me the pill casings used in her hospital were made from pork gelatine. I thought that was a hostage to fortune as patients have no choice but to consume them.foxinsoxuk said:
Presumably the Rainbow cafe is not obliged to accept leather items in payment for its products? People have the right to express their beliefs, and like other Britons not required to be consistent.matt said:
I presume for consistency that they are searching anyone for leather items. And being concerned about wool, dairy and eggs.RobD said:http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-38184599
"The Bank of England declined to say whether there was a legal obligation to accept the notes."
Last time I checked, Bank of England banknotes were legal tender that can not be refused for payment of goods/services.
The tallow fivers are becoming an issue in Leicester, not just with Hindus and Sikhs. There are lots of white vegetarians too.0 -
Rob, reading about these absolute toss**s and their pathetic demands has wound me up right off. Is it any wonder this country is absolutely down the drain , pandering to every half witted crank who thinks they hav ea right to be cretinous and have their pathetic wants catered to. Time to sort out all these whinging halfwitted cranks and tell them to like it or lump it elsewhere.RobD said:
Morning malcolm. I take it you haven't had your morning turnip based on that outburst... tittersmalcolmg said:
Hopefully they go out of business , bunch of absolute toss****matt said:
The statement from the owner was that they don't want animal products in their shop.foxinsoxuk said:
Presumably the Rainbow cafe is not obliged to accept leather items in payment for its products? People have the right to express their beliefs, and like other Britons not required to be consistent.matt said:
I presume for consistency that they are searching anyone for leather items. And being concerned about wool, dairy and eggs.RobD said:http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-38184599
"The Bank of England declined to say whether there was a legal obligation to accept the notes."
Last time I checked, Bank of England banknotes were legal tender that can not be refused for payment of goods/services.
The tallow fivers are becoming an issue in Leicester, not just with Hindus and Sikhs. There are lots of white vegetarians too.
Snarky edit: unlike a number of posters here I read articles before commenting....0 -
Making complex decisions by plebiscite based largely on prospectuses packed with lies and exaggerations was hardly a great advert for democracy either.Black_Rook said:
https://twitter.com/spikedonline/status/804966545051058176Black_Rook said:
Well quite :-)Morris_Dancer said:Don't recall the media claiming the Conservatives holding Witney was a sign of approval of our departure from the EU, but there we are...
We live in a parliamentary democracy not an episode of the X factor.
0 -
You need to get used to the idea that Brexit is now mainstream and establishment, and so it is the default position. So the Lib Dems not winning Witney is business as usual and not newsworthy. Brexit supporters are now the status quo.Morris_Dancer said:Don't recall the media claiming the Conservatives holding Witney was a sign of approval of our departure from the EU, but there we are...
Mr. G, the next ten and twenty pound notes will be made using the same process, I understand. If so, the shop will be limited to coins and fifty pound notes.0 -
No idea, but it hardly matters. The problem with the 'changed their mind' argument is there's little way to satisfactorily prove it in such a way a political party of substance coukd risk proposing changing direction, particularly since the Tories woukd need swaying as they're in government, and even the MPs were initially remain, they'd split if they tried to change course now. Polls might show areas or the whole country to have changed their mind, but polls as we know can be wrong, and the next one might show something different. A by-election might show a win for a remainer who won't trigger a50 but the next one might be dominated by those happy to Brexit, and in any case maybe the voters were happy to vote for the former because they knew it would put pressure on the government without preventing Brexit entirely. A GE still looks unlikely to me, but were MPs really to push anti Brexit as an idea, it is correct to point out that most constituencies voted leave, you'd need most parties to be openly remain and hope that people across all constituencies had changed their minds enough to win. And even then, assuming for a moment remain parties won a majority, the argument that eclipses a straight referendum would be disputed, and pressure for another vote.Recidivist said:http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/north-east-now-wants-stay-12258741
Before I investigate this myself, has this poll been debunked already? I can't see how opinion can have shifted so far and so fast even in an area which has more to lose than most.
I remain hopeful for a softer rather than harder Brexit, but the time and effort and luck needed to achieve it are significant. Those still hoping to stop Brexit altogether add the difficulty that politically the option needs democratic cover if the reversal is not itself then reversed again, and requires even more effort and luck, and is reliant on the public being very very clear in a way that is impossible. Even if the LDs won sleaford, it's only one constituency. And it would need to happen very soon as May will trigger a50 by march as she's tied herself to the madt on that front.
All of which is a long winded way of saying I agree with David that the approach will be more about trying to direct the government's approach rather than outright prevent, even if a few do wish they had the opportunity to prevent. I really don't think that manybif us leavers will switch so soon to be so obvious MPs woukd risk it.0 -
Mr. G, you should relax by reading a good book (such as Kingdom Asunder, by me).
I must say I'm a bit surprised by the reaction. Still, imagine if it weren't beef tallow but pork tallow (assuming there is such a thing).0
