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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Extraordinary. Trump wants Farage to be Britain’s Ambassador t

SystemSystem Posts: 12,548
edited November 2016 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Extraordinary. Trump wants Farage to be Britain’s Ambassador to the United States

Perhaps the most extraordinary development of Trump’s victory in British terms is the Tweet, from the President-elect, giving his view on who he wants as Britain’s man in Washington.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,826
    edited November 2016
    First like Nigel!

    Surely Trump should make him the US Ambassador to Britain. Or is he planning to auction off those jobs?
  • braeside02braeside02 Posts: 31
    Great idea.Always nice to have a head start.Surely a no-brainer whatever your view of Farage unless you are totally prejudiced like many on this site.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,729
    braeside02 said:

    Great idea.Always nice to have a head start.Surely a no-brainer whatever your view of Farage unless you are totally prejudiced like many on this site.

    So if Hilary had won and asked you'd be keen on David Miliband or Tony Blair as ambassador.

    Seems bonkers to me to choose an ambassador who is in a different political party who plans to stand against your party at the next general election.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,729
    tlg86 said:

    First like Nigel!

    Surely Trump should make him the US Ambassador to Britain. Or is he planning to auction off those jobs?

    Maybe thats the backup plan? Hard to say which would be worse for TM really...
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    He doesn't get a say
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    What a way to undermine Thersea May. I thought Trump was supposed to be an ally for us? Well, at least that's what I was told....
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    Morning all.

    What does Theresa May do about this? Ignore, American Presidents may object to Britain’s choice of Ambassador to the US, but they cannot dictate who they should be.
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    BBC - President-elect Donald Trump says the US will quit the Trans-Pacific Partnership trade deal on his first day in the White House.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38059623
  • dugarbandierdugarbandier Posts: 2,596
    Am I missing something? Is there a vacancy for this post?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    SimonStClare said:

    Morning all.

    What does Theresa May do about this? Ignore, American Presidents may object to Britain’s choice of Ambassador to the US, but they cannot dictate who they should be.

    Absolutely. This is simply a power play by Trump. Nothing more than that.

    If we bend the knee we'll always be a supplicant.
  • TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    SimonStClare said:

    BBC - President-elect Donald Trump says the US will quit the Trans-Pacific Partnership trade deal on his first day in the White House.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38059623

    Doing what he said he would do.
    But Hillary said the same. “I will stop any trade deal that kills jobs or holds down wages – including the Trans-Pacific Partnership,” she said. “I oppose it now, I’ll oppose it after the election, and I’ll oppose it as president.”
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/aug/20/trump-clinton-free-trade-policies-tpp
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,729
    SimonStClare said:

    Morning all.

    What does Theresa May do about this? Ignore, American Presidents may object to Britain’s choice of Ambassador to the US, but they cannot dictate who they should be.

    Maybe she should suggest who should be US ambassador to the UK...
    Elizabeth Warren perhaps?
  • TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    Charles said:

    SimonStClare said:

    Morning all.

    What does Theresa May do about this? Ignore, American Presidents may object to Britain’s choice of Ambassador to the US, but they cannot dictate who they should be.

    Absolutely. This is simply a power play by Trump. Nothing more than that.
    If we bend the knee we'll always be a supplicant.
    Agreed but this indicates that our current Ambassador failed to build links with a 50/50 chance of POTUS.
  • Chris_from_ParisChris_from_Paris Posts: 198
    FPT
    Paristonda said:



    Fillon is an ex-PM, it will be impossible to escape being portrayed as a member of the elite.

    If you are a member of the French left, the normal left not the bobo left, and in round 2 you are faced with two candidates who both are more or less on the same page re Radical Islam and Russia, and you have one who is talking your language on globalisation, big business, protectionism, and the other proposing the opposite of what you support, I think they will either abstain, or vote Le Pen.

    The "normal left" in France has one single common belief and it is anti-lepenism (it's also one of their only point of agreement with the bobo left). Not a single person calling himself a leftist in France will ever vote Le Pen. Though I agree that some would certainly abstain.

    BTW I understand what you mean but it's amusing to think of Fillon as "elite" compared to MLP. He is from a middle-class family and grew up in a countryside village of 3000 inhabitants.
    Marine Le Pen was born in Neuilly (the poshest suburb of Paris) from a millionnaire family and has lived 46 years of her life in the most famous super-VIP gated community in France. And of course she literally inherited the family buisiness.

  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,112
    Given what's happening in UKIP, won't be too long before Our Nige falls out with The Donald!
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,502
    braeside02 said:

    Great idea.Always nice to have a head start.Surely a no-brainer whatever your view of Farage unless you are totally prejudiced like many on this site.

    Everyone is prejudiced, it's how our brains are wired.
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    edited November 2016
    TCPoliticalBetting said:

    Charles said:

    SimonStClare said:

    Morning all.

    What does Theresa May do about this? Ignore, American Presidents may object to Britain’s choice of Ambassador to the US, but they cannot dictate who they should be.

    Absolutely. This is simply a power play by Trump. Nothing more than that.
    If we bend the knee we'll always be a supplicant.
    Agreed but this indicates that our current Ambassador failed to build links with a 50/50 chance of POTUS.
    Don’t think that’s quite the case. Farage regards Britain's ambassador in Washington Sir Kim Darroch, as a "fanatical Europhile and part of the old regime" for his role as Britain's Permanent Rep to the EU and has called for his resignation. Trump's tweet appears to be mischievously assisting Farage with his little vendetta, no doubt because it amuses him to do so.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    edited November 2016
    TCPoliticalBetting said:

    Charles said:

    SimonStClare said:

    Morning all.

    What does Theresa May do about this? Ignore, American Presidents may object to Britain’s choice of Ambassador to the US, but they cannot dictate who they should be.

    Absolutely. This is simply a power play by Trump. Nothing more than that.
    If we bend the knee we'll always be a supplicant.
    Agreed but this indicates that our current Ambassador failed to build links with a 50/50 chance of POTUS.
    Is it still Westmacott? I met him a couple of times when he was in Paris - great guy, but can't imagine he would gell with Trump particularly well.

    Edit: I see Kim Darroch took over earlier this year. I suppose his degree in Zoology might help...
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,659
    LOL!
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,054
    edited November 2016
    The idea that Trump will be a great friend to the UK is killed with this Tweet. No friend would have sent it. If Farage were any kind of patriot he would immediately disown it.

    The only good news from all of this is that Farage's cuddle-up-close to the Donald totally and utterly discredits him as a serious political figure. Not that he was widely seen that way before, of course.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,685
    Does Farrage really want to be in charge of handing out the Ferraro Rochets? Being ambassador in Washington is pretty much the top job in the career Foreign Office but for a politician used to speaking his own mind on every topic under the sun it would be a prison.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,567
    SouthamObserver said:

    The idea that Trump will be a great friend to the UK is killed with this Tweet. No friend would have sent it. If Farage were any kind of patriot he would immediately disown it.

    You think if he doesn't get his way on this he's going to throw his toys out of the pram regarding relations with Britain?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,659
    SimonStClare said:

    Morning all.

    What does Theresa May do about this? Ignore, American Presidents may object to Britain’s choice of Ambassador to the US, but they cannot dictate who they should be.

    Probably the smart thing to do is to use right-wing Conservatives who are sympathetic to Farage, and on friendly terms with him already - and can tell Trump as much - but still definitively from the governing party and aligned to the May Government.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,054
    RobD said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    The idea that Trump will be a great friend to the UK is killed with this Tweet. No friend would have sent it. If Farage were any kind of patriot he would immediately disown it.

    You think if he doesn't get his way on this he's going to throw his toys out of the pram regarding relations with Britain?

    No, I think that anyone who had any regard for this country would not have sent that Tweet.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,567
    SouthamObserver said:

    RobD said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    The idea that Trump will be a great friend to the UK is killed with this Tweet. No friend would have sent it. If Farage were any kind of patriot he would immediately disown it.

    You think if he doesn't get his way on this he's going to throw his toys out of the pram regarding relations with Britain?

    No, I think that anyone who had any regard for this country would not have sent that Tweet.
    I don't think Trump is anyone. ;)
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,659
    RobD said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    The idea that Trump will be a great friend to the UK is killed with this Tweet. No friend would have sent it. If Farage were any kind of patriot he would immediately disown it.

    You think if he doesn't get his way on this he's going to throw his toys out of the pram regarding relations with Britain?
    It's possible. To be honest, I'm not expecting Trump to roll out the red carpet for the UK. Although we are probably doing so for him with a state visit next year. Given the sort of character he is, maybe that will work.. don't know.

    He has emotional ties to this country, respects Brexit, and detests the EU, but he will always act in his interests first.

    The key thing we need from him is a bilateral trade deal. He knows this, it's just a question of how best he can be influenced (if at all)
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,054
    DavidL said:

    Does Farrage really want to be in charge of handing out the Ferraro Rochets? Being ambassador in Washington is pretty much the top job in the career Foreign Office but for a politician used to speaking his own mind on every topic under the sun it would be a prison.

    It's not up to Farage. It's not up to Trump. The Queen - our head of state - appoints ambassadors on the advice of the government.

  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,054
    Casino_Royale said:

    RobD said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    The idea that Trump will be a great friend to the UK is killed with this Tweet. No friend would have sent it. If Farage were any kind of patriot he would immediately disown it.

    You think if he doesn't get his way on this he's going to throw his toys out of the pram regarding relations with Britain?
    It's possible. To be honest, I'm not expecting Trump to roll out the red carpet for the UK. Although we are probably doing so for him with a state visit next year. Given the sort of character he is, maybe that will work.. don't know.

    He has emotional ties to this country, respects Brexit, and detests the EU, but he will always act in his interests first.

    The key thing we need from him is a bilateral trade deal. He knows this, it's just a question of how best he can be influenced (if at all)

    Congress is far more important than Trump when it comes to trade deals. We need to persuade a majority of elected representatives that giving the UK substantially better trading terms than we have already is in the best interests of the people who vote for them. And given the timings no deal is likely to be put in front of Congress during a Trump presidency.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,502
    Casino_Royale said:

    RobD said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    The idea that Trump will be a great friend to the UK is killed with this Tweet. No friend would have sent it. If Farage were any kind of patriot he would immediately disown it.

    You think if he doesn't get his way on this he's going to throw his toys out of the pram regarding relations with Britain?
    It's possible. To be honest, I'm not expecting Trump to roll out the red carpet for the UK. Although we are probably doing so for him with a state visit next year. Given the sort of character he is, maybe that will work.. don't know.

    He has emotional ties to this country, respects Brexit, and detests the EU, but he will always act in his interests first.

    The key thing we need from him is a bilateral trade deal. He knows this, it's just a question of how best he can be influenced (if at all)
    The problem being that he's just torn up an - incredibly favourable for the US - trade deal with US allies Australia, South Korea, Japan and New Zealand.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,054
    SeanT said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    The idea that Trump will be a great friend to the UK is killed with this Tweet. No friend would have sent it. If Farage were any kind of patriot he would immediately disown it.

    The only good news from all of this is that Farage's cuddle-up-close to the Donald totally and utterly discredits him as a serious political figure. Not that he was widely seen that way before, of course.

    Bedwetting lefty nonsense. Lol.

    Nope - fact. If Trump had any regard for this country or its head of state that Tweet would not have been posted. You know it, but you have no problem with it because you are a highly partisan right-winger.

  • dugarbandierdugarbandier Posts: 2,596
    http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2016/11/21/kobachs-extreme-vetting-proposal-is-revealed-in-photos-with-trump/?mod=e2tw

    can't they afford briefcases or something? or ...perhaps they did it on purpose?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,502
    TCPoliticalBetting said:

    Charles said:

    SimonStClare said:

    Morning all.

    What does Theresa May do about this? Ignore, American Presidents may object to Britain’s choice of Ambassador to the US, but they cannot dictate who they should be.

    Absolutely. This is simply a power play by Trump. Nothing more than that.
    If we bend the knee we'll always be a supplicant.
    Agreed but this indicates that our current Ambassador failed to build links with a 50/50 chance of POTUS.
    Hasn't our ambassador only been there about three months? I doubt he built links - during a busy election season - with either candidate.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @BBCNormanS: Number Ten on Trump call for @Nigel_Farage to becomer UK ambassador: "There is no vacancy. We have an excellent ambassador to the US."
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @BBCNormanS: Govt sources re-iterate "categorically" no role for @Nigel_Farage
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Clear from Farage's reported reaction this morning that he wants it.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited November 2016
    SouthamObserver said:

    RobD said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    The idea that Trump will be a great friend to the UK is killed with this Tweet. No friend would have sent it. If Farage were any kind of patriot he would immediately disown it.

    You think if he doesn't get his way on this he's going to throw his toys out of the pram regarding relations with Britain?

    No, I think that anyone who had any regard for this country would not have sent that Tweet.
    Farage hates the EU, and has Trump's ear. The EU 28 run a very substantial trade surplus with the USA. That makes the EU28 vulnerable to US tariffs to protect US workers, and for at least the next 30 months we are part of the EU. Brexit will not occur under Trumps first term IMO, and he may well not get a second.

  • TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    Charles said:

    TCPoliticalBetting said:

    Charles said:

    SimonStClare said:

    Morning all.

    What does Theresa May do about this? Ignore, American Presidents may object to Britain’s choice of Ambassador to the US, but they cannot dictate who they should be.

    Absolutely. This is simply a power play by Trump. Nothing more than that.
    If we bend the knee we'll always be a supplicant.
    Agreed but this indicates that our current Ambassador failed to build links with a 50/50 chance of POTUS.
    Is it still Westmacott? I met him a couple of times when he was in Paris - great guy, but can't imagine he would gell with Trump particularly well.
    Edit: I see Kim Darroch took over earlier this year. I suppose his degree in Zoology might help...
    Darroch has spent his career working with the EU and security. No work in trade! Very unsuitable.

  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    edited November 2016
    SouthamObserver said:

    The idea that Trump will be a great friend to the UK is killed with this Tweet. No friend would have sent it. If Farage were any kind of patriot he would immediately disown it.

    The only good news from all of this is that Farage's cuddle-up-close to the Donald totally and utterly discredits him as a serious political figure. Not that he was widely seen that way before, of course.

    I suspect that Trump asked Farage his opinion of Kim Darroch and Farage gave it without considering the national interest (ie to have an effective Ambassador). If Farage wants a seat atbthe top table he needs to look beyond personal self interest
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,054
    Scott_P said:

    Clear from Farage's reported reaction this morning that he wants it.

    Farage is making a huge mistake in cuddling up so close to Trump.

  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    Scott_P said:

    Clear from Farage's reported reaction this morning that he wants it.

    Ambassador Farage would do for British diplomacy what Gen Melchett did for troop morale.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    edited November 2016
    SouthamObserver said:

    RobD said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    The idea that Trump will be a great friend to the UK is killed with this Tweet. No friend would have sent it. If Farage were any kind of patriot he would immediately disown it.

    You think if he doesn't get his way on this he's going to throw his toys out of the pram regarding relations with Britain?

    No, I think that anyone who had any regard for this country would not have sent that Tweet.
    You're over-reading it, I think

    He's trolling May, testing her, and doing a marginal favour for someone who could be useful in future. Don't think it says anything about his views of the UK (although don't forget that countries have interests, not allies)
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,054
    Charles said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    The idea that Trump will be a great friend to the UK is killed with this Tweet. No friend would have sent it. If Farage were any kind of patriot he would immediately disown it.

    The only good news from all of this is that Farage's cuddle-up-close to the Donald totally and utterly discredits him as a serious political figure. Not that he was widely seen that way before, of course.

    I suspect that Trump asked Garage his opinion of Kim Darroch and Farage gave it without considering the national interest (ie to have an effective Ambassador). If Farage wants a seat atbthe top table he needs to look beyond personal self interest

    I would hope that Farage is completely and perpetually disqualified from a seat at any high table. A man who is prepared to collude in the humiliation of his country's head of state and its government has no place anywhere near the corridors of power.

  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,567
    Charles said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    RobD said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    The idea that Trump will be a great friend to the UK is killed with this Tweet. No friend would have sent it. If Farage were any kind of patriot he would immediately disown it.

    You think if he doesn't get his way on this he's going to throw his toys out of the pram regarding relations with Britain?

    No, I think that anyone who had any regard for this country would not have sent that Tweet.
    You're over-reading it, I think

    He's trolling May, testing her, and doing a marginal favour for someobe who could be useful in future.
    Yes, and Trump is far from normal when it comes to diplomacy anyway.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    The one upside this morning is imagining the look on this guys face. "IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN ME!!!!"

    https://twitter.com/mark1957/status/797092079532994560
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 55,378
    dugarbandier said:

    http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2016/11/21/kobachs-extreme-vetting-proposal-is-revealed-in-photos-with-trump/?mod=e2tw

    can't they afford briefcases or something? or ...perhaps they did it on purpose?

    Bingo - in the age of the 20Mpx camera, holding documents like that, uncovered, is a PR technique that is taught. This was deliberate.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,054
    Charles said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    RobD said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    The idea that Trump will be a great friend to the UK is killed with this Tweet. No friend would have sent it. If Farage were any kind of patriot he would immediately disown it.

    You think if he doesn't get his way on this he's going to throw his toys out of the pram regarding relations with Britain?

    No, I think that anyone who had any regard for this country would not have sent that Tweet.
    You're over-reading it, I think

    He's trolling May, testing her, and doing a marginal favour for someobe who could be useful in future.

    I'm afraid it is not the job of the president-elect of the United States to troll the Prime Minister of a close ally or to tell the Queen who she should appoint as our ambassador in Washington DC. I can just imagine the reaction on here if Obama had sent a similar Tweet.

  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,567
    SouthamObserver said:

    Charles said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    RobD said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    The idea that Trump will be a great friend to the UK is killed with this Tweet. No friend would have sent it. If Farage were any kind of patriot he would immediately disown it.

    You think if he doesn't get his way on this he's going to throw his toys out of the pram regarding relations with Britain?

    No, I think that anyone who had any regard for this country would not have sent that Tweet.
    You're over-reading it, I think

    He's trolling May, testing her, and doing a marginal favour for someobe who could be useful in future.

    I'm afraid it is not the job of the president-elect of the United States to troll the Prime Minister of a close ally or to tell the Queen who she should appoint as our ambassador in Washington DC. I can just imagine the reaction on here if Obama had sent a similar Tweet.

    Note that he never actually said that.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,054
    RobD said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    Charles said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    RobD said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    The idea that Trump will be a great friend to the UK is killed with this Tweet. No friend would have sent it. If Farage were any kind of patriot he would immediately disown it.

    You think if he doesn't get his way on this he's going to throw his toys out of the pram regarding relations with Britain?

    No, I think that anyone who had any regard for this country would not have sent that Tweet.
    You're over-reading it, I think

    He's trolling May, testing her, and doing a marginal favour for someobe who could be useful in future.

    I'm afraid it is not the job of the president-elect of the United States to troll the Prime Minister of a close ally or to tell the Queen who she should appoint as our ambassador in Washington DC. I can just imagine the reaction on here if Obama had sent a similar Tweet.

    Note that he never actually said that.

    He has made his feelings pretty clear.

  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    SouthamObserver said:

    I can just imagine the reaction on here if Obama had sent a similar Tweet.

    Obama said "back of the queue" and there was total meltdown from the headbangers.

    Now Trump does this and their response is "deal with it"
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,567
    SouthamObserver said:

    Charles said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    RobD said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    The idea that Trump will be a great friend to the UK is killed with this Tweet. No friend would have sent it. If Farage were any kind of patriot he would immediately disown it.

    You think if he doesn't get his way on this he's going to throw his toys out of the pram regarding relations with Britain?

    No, I think that anyone who had any regard for this country would not have sent that Tweet.
    You're over-reading it, I think

    He's trolling May, testing her, and doing a marginal favour for someobe who could be useful in future.

    I'm afraid it is not the job of the president-elect of the United States to troll the Prime Minister of a close ally or to tell the Queen who she should appoint as our ambassador in Washington DC. I can just imagine the reaction on here if Obama had sent a similar Tweet.

    The difference is we wouldn't expect Obama to send a tweet like that. Trump, on the other hand...
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,386
    This is amusing if nothing else. The stoats and weasels are definitely in charge now.

    The "this is not the way we do things, old chap," will probably be the UK government reaction. But funny, coming from the left too.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,685
    The Trump Presidency is looking like it may do a lot to reduce the tedium. For Obama TPP was a real legacy. And it's gone. On day 1. With threats to Obamacare still pending the disappointingly slight mark that Obama made on the US may completely disappear within a year.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,054
    Scott_P said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    I can just imagine the reaction on here if Obama had sent a similar Tweet.

    Obama said "back of the queue" and there was total meltdown from the headbangers.

    Now Trump does this and their response is "deal with it"

    Of course. Trump's embrace of white supremacists gets a free pass on PB, so a Tweet designed to humiliate this country's government and head of state is a mere trifle.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Scott_P said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    I can just imagine the reaction on here if Obama had sent a similar Tweet.

    Obama said "back of the queue" and there was total meltdown from the headbangers.

    Now Trump does this and their response is "deal with it"
    Worse, they want to kiss Trumps arse.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,567
    SouthamObserver said:

    RobD said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    Charles said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    RobD said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    The idea that Trump will be a great friend to the UK is killed with this Tweet. No friend would have sent it. If Farage were any kind of patriot he would immediately disown it.

    You think if he doesn't get his way on this he's going to throw his toys out of the pram regarding relations with Britain?

    No, I think that anyone who had any regard for this country would not have sent that Tweet.
    You're over-reading it, I think

    He's trolling May, testing her, and doing a marginal favour for someobe who could be useful in future.

    I'm afraid it is not the job of the president-elect of the United States to troll the Prime Minister of a close ally or to tell the Queen who she should appoint as our ambassador in Washington DC. I can just imagine the reaction on here if Obama had sent a similar Tweet.

    Note that he never actually said that.

    He has made his feelings pretty clear.

    It isn't as if he is saying Farage is the only option for the job.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,567
    Scott_P said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    I can just imagine the reaction on here if Obama had sent a similar Tweet.

    Obama said "back of the queue" and there was total meltdown from the headbangers.

    Now Trump does this and their response is "deal with it"
    Maybe if he had said "line" things would have been different!
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    SouthamObserver said:

    Charles said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    RobD said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    The idea that Trump will be a great friend to the UK is killed with this Tweet. No friend would have sent it. If Farage were any kind of patriot he would immediately disown it.

    You think if he doesn't get his way on this he's going to throw his toys out of the pram regarding relations with Britain?

    No, I think that anyone who had any regard for this country would not have sent that Tweet.
    You're over-reading it, I think

    He's trolling May, testing her, and doing a marginal favour for someobe who could be useful in future.

    I'm afraid it is not the job of the president-elect of the United States to troll the Prime Minister of a close ally or to tell the Queen who she should appoint as our ambassador in Washington DC. I can just imagine the reaction on here if Obama had sent a similar Tweet.

    It might not be but Trump has done it and we are where we are. It will be interesting to see how it is priced up. Can the Foreign Office invent a post that will keep everyone happy?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    SouthamObserver said:

    Charles said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    The idea that Trump will be a great friend to the UK is killed with this Tweet. No friend would have sent it. If Farage were any kind of patriot he would immediately disown it.

    The only good news from all of this is that Farage's cuddle-up-close to the Donald totally and utterly discredits him as a serious political figure. Not that he was widely seen that way before, of course.

    I suspect that Trump asked Garage his opinion of Kim Darroch and Farage gave it without considering the national interest (ie to have an effective Ambassador). If Farage wants a seat atbthe top table he needs to look beyond personal self interest

    I would hope that Farage is completely and perpetually disqualified from a seat at any high table. A man who is prepared to collude in the humiliation of his country's head of state and its government has no place anywhere near the corridors of power.

    I agree. This is a big mistake by Farage.

    @TCPoliticalBetting Security quite important right now! But Ambassadors can turn their hand to anything. They have juniors to deal with details. Their role is to build relationships with the key players, to gather intelligence, assess situations and convey messages. Not to negotiate trade deals
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    That mooted State visit of President Trump is going to be entertaining!

    I cannot see the British public and media being very welcoming.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,567
    Charles said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    Charles said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    The idea that Trump will be a great friend to the UK is killed with this Tweet. No friend would have sent it. If Farage were any kind of patriot he would immediately disown it.

    The only good news from all of this is that Farage's cuddle-up-close to the Donald totally and utterly discredits him as a serious political figure. Not that he was widely seen that way before, of course.

    I suspect that Trump asked Garage his opinion of Kim Darroch and Farage gave it without considering the national interest (ie to have an effective Ambassador). If Farage wants a seat atbthe top table he needs to look beyond personal self interest

    I would hope that Farage is completely and perpetually disqualified from a seat at any high table. A man who is prepared to collude in the humiliation of his country's head of state and its government has no place anywhere near the corridors of power.

    I agree. This is a big mistake by Farage.

    @TCPoliticalBetting Security quite important right now! But Ambassadors can turn their hand to anything. They have juniors to deal with details. Their role is to build relationships with the key players, to gather intelligence, assess situations and convey messages. Not to negotiate trade deals
    Were there not noises after the election that the current lot hadn't done a good job at reaching out to the Trump team?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Scott_P said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    I can just imagine the reaction on here if Obama had sent a similar Tweet.

    Obama said "back of the queue" and there was total meltdown from the headbangers.

    Now Trump does this and their response is "deal with it"
    Obama intervened in domestic affairs.

    Trump is playing a game on foreign affairs. It's legitimate but the right response is to ignore his "advice" (No 10 responded about right)
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,054
    SeanT said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    SeanT said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    The idea that Trump will be a great friend to the UK is killed with this Tweet. No friend would have sent it. If Farage were any kind of patriot he would immediately disown it.

    The only good news from all of this is that Farage's cuddle-up-close to the Donald totally and utterly discredits him as a serious political figure. Not that he was widely seen that way before, of course.

    Bedwetting lefty nonsense. Lol.

    Nope - fact. If Trump had any regard for this country or its head of state that Tweet would not have been posted. You know it, but you have no problem with it because you are a highly partisan right-winger.

    No, I'm just not an effeminate lefty nitwit. Trump is a game changer. He does things differently. The whole western world is changing. The culture wars have turned, finally, in favour of the right. Some of it will be ugly and weird and sad, some of it will be brilliant and wonderful and long overdue.

    Rejoice.

    If the right wing view of the culture wars is that it means the president-elect of the US gets to humiliate the government and the head of state of a close ally then I am not sure that the right will be in the ascendant for as long as you think.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    DecrepitJohnL said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    Charles said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    RobD said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    The idea that Trump will be a great friend to the UK is killed with this Tweet. No friend would have sent it. If Farage were any kind of patriot he would immediately disown it.

    You think if he doesn't get his way on this he's going to throw his toys out of the pram regarding relations with Britain?

    No, I think that anyone who had any regard for this country would not have sent that Tweet.
    You're over-reading it, I think

    He's trolling May, testing her, and doing a marginal favour for someobe who could be useful in future.

    I'm afraid it is not the job of the president-elect of the United States to troll the Prime Minister of a close ally or to tell the Queen who she should appoint as our ambassador in Washington DC. I can just imagine the reaction on here if Obama had sent a similar Tweet.

    It might not be but Trump has done it and we are where we are. It will be interesting to see how it is priced up. Can the Foreign Office invent a post that will keep everyone happy?
    Governor of South Georgia?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 55,378
    rcs1000 said:

    TCPoliticalBetting said:

    Charles said:

    SimonStClare said:

    Morning all.

    What does Theresa May do about this? Ignore, American Presidents may object to Britain’s choice of Ambassador to the US, but they cannot dictate who they should be.

    Absolutely. This is simply a power play by Trump. Nothing more than that.
    If we bend the knee we'll always be a supplicant.
    Agreed but this indicates that our current Ambassador failed to build links with a 50/50 chance of POTUS.
    Hasn't our ambassador only been there about three months? I doubt he built links - during a busy election season - with either candidate.
    Willing to bet there were links with Hillary - given her time as Sec. Of State.

  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    SouthamObserver said:

    SeanT said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    SeanT said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    The idea that Trump will be a great friend to the UK is killed with this Tweet. No friend would have sent it. If Farage were any kind of patriot he would immediately disown it.

    The only good news from all of this is that Farage's cuddle-up-close to the Donald totally and utterly discredits him as a serious political figure. Not that he was widely seen that way before, of course.

    Bedwetting lefty nonsense. Lol.

    Nope - fact. If Trump had any regard for this country or its head of state that Tweet would not have been posted. You know it, but you have no problem with it because you are a highly partisan right-winger.

    No, I'm just not an effeminate lefty nitwit. Trump is a game changer. He does things differently. The whole western world is changing. The culture wars have turned, finally, in favour of the right. Some of it will be ugly and weird and sad, some of it will be brilliant and wonderful and long overdue.

    Rejoice.

    If the right wing view of the culture wars is that it means the president-elect of the US gets to humiliate the government and the head of state of a close ally then I am not sure that the right will be in the ascendant for as long as you think.
    It's not a humilliation unless we kow tow. Tell him to piss off
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,685
    SouthamObserver said:

    SeanT said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    SeanT said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    The idea that Trump will be a great friend to the UK is killed with this Tweet. No friend would have sent it. If Farage were any kind of patriot he would immediately disown it.

    The only good news from all of this is that Farage's cuddle-up-close to the Donald totally and utterly discredits him as a serious political figure. Not that he was widely seen that way before, of course.

    Bedwetting lefty nonsense. Lol.

    Nope - fact. If Trump had any regard for this country or its head of state that Tweet would not have been posted. You know it, but you have no problem with it because you are a highly partisan right-winger.

    No, I'm just not an effeminate lefty nitwit. Trump is a game changer. He does things differently. The whole western world is changing. The culture wars have turned, finally, in favour of the right. Some of it will be ugly and weird and sad, some of it will be brilliant and wonderful and long overdue.

    Rejoice.

    If the right wing view of the culture wars is that it means the president-elect of the US gets to humiliate the government and the head of state of a close ally then I am not sure that the right will be in the ascendant for as long as you think.
    Not think you are getting a tad carried away this morning? I really don't see how this "humiliates" anyone.
  • dugarbandierdugarbandier Posts: 2,596
    Malmesbury said:

    dugarbandier said:

    http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2016/11/21/kobachs-extreme-vetting-proposal-is-revealed-in-photos-with-trump/?mod=e2tw

    can't they afford briefcases or something? or ...perhaps they did it on purpose?

    Bingo - in the age of the 20Mpx camera, holding documents like that, uncovered, is a PR technique that is taught. This was deliberate.
    so you'd think the media would be aware of it and report it as such. unless...

  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 10,079
    DavidL said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    SeanT said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    SeanT said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    The idea that Trump will be a great friend to the UK is killed with this Tweet. No friend would have sent it. If Farage were any kind of patriot he would immediately disown it.

    The only good news from all of this is that Farage's cuddle-up-close to the Donald totally and utterly discredits him as a serious political figure. Not that he was widely seen that way before, of course.

    Bedwetting lefty nonsense. Lol.

    Nope - fact. If Trump had any regard for this country or its head of state that Tweet would not have been posted. You know it, but you have no problem with it because you are a highly partisan right-winger.

    No, I'm just not an effeminate lefty nitwit. Trump is a game changer. He does things differently. The whole western world is changing. The culture wars have turned, finally, in favour of the right. Some of it will be ugly and weird and sad, some of it will be brilliant and wonderful and long overdue.

    Rejoice.

    If the right wing view of the culture wars is that it means the president-elect of the US gets to humiliate the government and the head of state of a close ally then I am not sure that the right will be in the ascendant for as long as you think.
    Not think you are getting a tad carried away this morning? I really don't see how this "humiliates" anyone.
    Pretty much got stamped on by HMG, someone's getting humiliated.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,672
    SouthamObserver said:

    The idea that Trump will be a great friend to the UK is killed with this Tweet. No friend would have sent it. If Farage were any kind of patriot he would immediately disown it.

    The only good news from all of this is that Farage's cuddle-up-close to the Donald totally and utterly discredits him as a serious political figure. Not that he was widely seen that way before, of course.

    Quite.

    The real danger is not that Farage gets made Ambassador but that he acts as some sort of unofficial advisor claiming to speak for Britain and undermining whatever our government tries to do.

    A lesson to May not to assume that Trump's election will be any sort of benefit to Britain.

    Trump will act in his own interests and those of the US (as he conceives them) and only those. In that he will be no different to any other US President. It has always been thus. It's long past the time for Britain to rid itself of the delusion that it is owed any sort of special favours by the US or that its President will help us just because he plays golf here or whatever.
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    edited November 2016
    For anyone who missed this

    "Hah-Hah-Hah!
    The New York Post reported:

    Donald Trump scolded media big shots during an off-the-record Trump Tower sitdown on Monday, sources told The Post.

    “It was like a f–ing firing squad,” one source said of the encounter.

    “Trump started with [CNN chief] Jeff Zucker and said ‘I hate your network, everyone at CNN is a liar and you should be ashamed,’ ” the source said.

    “The meeting was a total disaster. The TV execs and anchors went in there thinking they would be discussing the access they would get to the Trump administration, but instead they got a Trump-style dressing down,” the source added...

    http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2016/11/trumps-media-meeting-set-brought-one-room-blasted-away/

    More here

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-11-21/these-mainstream-media-anchors-just-went-record-meeting-trump
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,685
    edited November 2016
    logical_song said:

    DavidL said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    SeanT said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    SeanT said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    The idea that Trump will be a great friend to the UK is killed with this Tweet. No friend would have sent it. If Farage were any kind of patriot he would immediately disown it.

    The only good news from all of this is that Farage's cuddle-up-close to the Donald totally and utterly discredits him as a serious political figure. Not that he was widely seen that way before, of course.

    Bedwetting lefty nonsense. Lol.

    Nope - fact. If Trump had any regard for this country or its head of state that Tweet would not have been posted. You know it, but you have no problem with it because you are a highly partisan right-winger.

    No, I'm just not an effeminate lefty nitwit. Trump is a game changer. He does things differently. The whole western world is changing. The culture wars have turned, finally, in favour of the right. Some of it will be ugly and weird and sad, some of it will be brilliant and wonderful and long overdue.

    Rejoice.

    If the right wing view of the culture wars is that it means the president-elect of the US gets to humiliate the government and the head of state of a close ally then I am not sure that the right will be in the ascendant for as long as you think.
    Not think you are getting a tad carried away this morning? I really don't see how this "humiliates" anyone.
    Pretty much got stamped on by HMG, someone's getting humiliated.
    Nah. Farage has overplayed his hand. If he was even asked. But humiliated? I think not.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,054
    DavidL said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    SeanT said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    SeanT said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    The idea that Trump will be a great friend to the UK is killed with this Tweet. No friend would have sent it. If Farage were any kind of patriot he would immediately disown it.

    The only good news from all of this is that Farage's cuddle-up-close to the Donald totally and utterly discredits him as a serious political figure. Not that he was widely seen that way before, of course.

    Bedwetting lefty nonsense. Lol.

    Nope - fact. If Trump had any regard for this country or its head of state that Tweet would not have been posted. You know it, but you have no problem with it because you are a highly partisan right-winger.

    No, I'm just not an effeminate lefty nitwit. Trump is a game changer. He does things differently. The whole western world is changing. The culture wars have turned, finally, in favour of the right. Some of it will be ugly and weird and sad, some of it will be brilliant and wonderful and long overdue.

    Rejoice.

    If the right wing view of the culture wars is that it means the president-elect of the US gets to humiliate the government and the head of state of a close ally then I am not sure that the right will be in the ascendant for as long as you think.
    Not think you are getting a tad carried away this morning? I really don't see how this "humiliates" anyone.

    What it says is that the president-elect does not believe that the current UK ambassador to the US is good enough. If he did he would not have sent the Tweet. That clearly humiliates the ambassador. And it says to the UK government and the head of state: "You have the wrong man in my capital city; and, what's more, I am not going to tell you privately, I am going to tell the world - that's how much I care about our special relationship."

  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,672
    foxinsoxuk said:

    DecrepitJohnL said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    Charles said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    RobD said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    The idea that Trump will be a great friend to the UK is killed with this Tweet. No friend would have sent it. If Farage were any kind of patriot he would immediately disown it.

    You think if he doesn't get his way on this he's going to throw his toys out of the pram regarding relations with Britain?

    No, I think that anyone who had any regard for this country would not have sent that Tweet.
    You're over-reading it, I think

    He's trolling May, testing her, and doing a marginal favour for someobe who could be useful in future.

    I'm afraid it is not the job of the president-elect of the United States to troll the Prime Minister of a close ally or to tell the Queen who she should appoint as our ambassador in Washington DC. I can just imagine the reaction on here if Obama had sent a similar Tweet.

    It might not be but Trump has done it and we are where we are. It will be interesting to see how it is priced up. Can the Foreign Office invent a post that will keep everyone happy?
    Governor of South Georgia?
    No. Governor of St Helena.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    SeanT said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    SeanT said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    The idea that Trump will be a great friend to the UK is killed with this Tweet. No friend would have sent it. If Farage were any kind of patriot he would immediately disown it.

    The only good news from all of this is that Farage's cuddle-up-close to the Donald totally and utterly discredits him as a serious political figure. Not that he was widely seen that way before, of course.

    Bedwetting lefty nonsense. Lol.

    Nope - fact. If Trump had any regard for this country or its head of state that Tweet would not have been posted. You know it, but you have no problem with it because you are a highly partisan right-winger.

    No, I'm just not an effeminate lefty nitwit. Trump is a game changer. He does things differently. The whole western world is changing. The culture wars have turned, finally, in favour of the right. Some of it will be ugly and weird and sad, some of it will be brilliant and wonderful and long overdue.

    Rejoice.
    But is Trump of the right or just an American nationalist? Remember Trump not only beat Hillary, he humiliated the Republican establishment.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,054
    Cyclefree said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    The idea that Trump will be a great friend to the UK is killed with this Tweet. No friend would have sent it. If Farage were any kind of patriot he would immediately disown it.

    The only good news from all of this is that Farage's cuddle-up-close to the Donald totally and utterly discredits him as a serious political figure. Not that he was widely seen that way before, of course.

    Quite.

    The real danger is not that Farage gets made Ambassador but that he acts as some sort of unofficial advisor claiming to speak for Britain and undermining whatever our government tries to do.

    A lesson to May not to assume that Trump's election will be any sort of benefit to Britain.

    Trump will act in his own interests and those of the US (as he conceives them) and only those. In that he will be no different to any other US President. It has always been thus. It's long past the time for Britain to rid itself of the delusion that it is owed any sort of special favours by the US or that its President will help us just because he plays golf here or whatever.

    Completely agree. Politicians who seek to cuddle up close to the Donald will not be doing themselves any favours.

  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,729
    SouthamObserver said:

    SeanT said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    SeanT said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    The idea that Trump will be a great friend to the UK is killed with this Tweet. No friend would have sent it. If Farage were any kind of patriot he would immediately disown it.

    The only good news from all of this is that Farage's cuddle-up-close to the Donald totally and utterly discredits him as a serious political figure. Not that he was widely seen that way before, of course.

    Bedwetting lefty nonsense. Lol.

    Nope - fact. If Trump had any regard for this country or its head of state that Tweet would not have been posted. You know it, but you have no problem with it because you are a highly partisan right-winger.

    No, I'm just not an effeminate lefty nitwit. Trump is a game changer. He does things differently. The whole western world is changing. The culture wars have turned, finally, in favour of the right. Some of it will be ugly and weird and sad, some of it will be brilliant and wonderful and long overdue.

    Rejoice.

    If the right wing view of the culture wars is that it means the president-elect of the US gets to humiliate the government and the head of state of a close ally then I am not sure that the right will be in the ascendant for as long as you think.
    I think your overdoing it - going on a bout humiliation etc...

    The point is that Trump is not going to be as close an ally as past Presidents... hopes of a trade deal on anything like reasonable terms with USA seem fanciful...

    Good thing we have got such good relationships in Europe then really...
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,659
    SouthamObserver said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    RobD said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    The idea that Trump will be a great friend to the UK is killed with this Tweet. No friend would have sent it. If Farage were any kind of patriot he would immediately disown it.

    You think if he doesn't get his way on this he's going to throw his toys out of the pram regarding relations with Britain?
    It's possible. To be honest, I'm not expecting Trump to roll out the red carpet for the UK. Although we are probably doing so for him with a state visit next year. Given the sort of character he is, maybe that will work.. don't know.

    He has emotional ties to this country, respects Brexit, and detests the EU, but he will always act in his interests first.

    The key thing we need from him is a bilateral trade deal. He knows this, it's just a question of how best he can be influenced (if at all)

    Congress is far more important than Trump when it comes to trade deals. We need to persuade a majority of elected representatives that giving the UK substantially better trading terms than we have already is in the best interests of the people who vote for them. And given the timings no deal is likely to be put in front of Congress during a Trump presidency.
    Indeed. Hannan has already been. I think him and the likes of Carswell could do great work there.
  • dugarbandierdugarbandier Posts: 2,596
    PlatoSaid said:

    For anyone who missed this

    "Hah-Hah-Hah!
    The New York Post reported:

    Donald Trump scolded media big shots during an off-the-record Trump Tower sitdown on Monday, sources told The Post.

    “It was like a f–ing firing squad,” one source said of the encounter.

    “Trump started with [CNN chief] Jeff Zucker and said ‘I hate your network, everyone at CNN is a liar and you should be ashamed,’ ” the source said.

    “The meeting was a total disaster. The TV execs and anchors went in there thinking they would be discussing the access they would get to the Trump administration, but instead they got a Trump-style dressing down,” the source added...

    http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2016/11/trumps-media-meeting-set-brought-one-room-blasted-away/

    More here

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-11-21/these-mainstream-media-anchors-just-went-record-meeting-trump

    Is that your "Hah"?

    Do you really think the US public are going to appreciate their head of state behaving like this long term?
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Ignore it. Opposition leaders do not get government appointments. Ground rules need to be laid out early. Pandering on this would mean that Donald Trump would correctly deduce that Britain would be a pushover.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,659
    rcs1000 said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    RobD said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    The idea that Trump will be a great friend to the UK is killed with this Tweet. No friend would have sent it. If Farage were any kind of patriot he would immediately disown it.

    You think if he doesn't get his way on this he's going to throw his toys out of the pram regarding relations with Britain?
    It's possible. To be honest, I'm not expecting Trump to roll out the red carpet for the UK. Although we are probably doing so for him with a state visit next year. Given the sort of character he is, maybe that will work.. don't know.

    He has emotional ties to this country, respects Brexit, and detests the EU, but he will always act in his interests first.

    The key thing we need from him is a bilateral trade deal. He knows this, it's just a question of how best he can be influenced (if at all)
    The problem being that he's just torn up an - incredibly favourable for the US - trade deal with US allies Australia, South Korea, Japan and New Zealand.
    But he also said he'd consider replacing it with bilateral arrangements.
  • jcesmondjcesmond Posts: 49
    SouthamObserver said:

    DavidL said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    SeanT said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    SeanT said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    The idea that Trump will be a great friend to the UK is killed with this Tweet. No friend would have sent it. If Farage were any kind of patriot he would immediately disown it.

    The only good news from all of this is that Farage's cuddle-up-close to the Donald totally and utterly discredits him as a serious political figure. Not that he was widely seen that way before, of course.

    Bedwetting lefty nonsense. Lol.

    Nope - fact. If Trump had any regard for this country or its head of state that Tweet would not have been posted. You know it, but you have no problem with it because you are a highly partisan right-winger.

    No, I'm just not an effeminate lefty nitwit. Trump is a game changer. He does things differently. The whole western world is changing. The culture wars have turned, finally, in favour of the right. Some of it will be ugly and weird and sad, some of it will be brilliant and wonderful and long overdue.

    Rejoice.

    If the right wing view of the culture wars is that it means the president-elect of the US gets to humiliate the government and the head of state of a close ally then I am not sure that the right will be in the ascendant for as long as you think.
    Not think you are getting a tad carried away this morning? I really don't see how this "humiliates" anyone.

    What it says is that the president-elect does not believe that the current UK ambassador to the US is good enough. If he did he would not have sent the Tweet. That clearly humiliates the ambassador. And it says to the UK government and the head of state: "You have the wrong man in my capital city; and, what's more, I am not going to tell you privately, I am going to tell the world - that's how much I care about our special relationship."

    Our man in Washington was very busy sending whiny telegrams back to London, and appearing in the press a week or so ago, whilst Farage took advantage of the vacuum and nipped in to grab Trumps attention. As always, the FCO is reacting to events rather than thinking a few steps ahead and setting the agenda. A quicker thinking organisation would have got their representative in first.
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    For Scott Adams readers

    http://blog.dilbert.com/post/153480921421/persuasion-versus-populism
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,672
    Incidentally I share SO's concerns about Trump's advisors and the views some of them have - on white supremacy, anti-semitism, racism etc. The fact that groups like the KKK are celebrating is not good news and Britain should, for its own self-respect, be careful not to be seen as sharing or endorsing such views. It is no use criticising Corbyn for his repellent views and associations and giving a free pass to Trump.

    Realpolitik is fine. We will need to build as good a relationship as we can with the US but we need to be clear - and in public if need be - that we have certain values and that white supremacy, anti-semitism etc are not part of them.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,287
    DecrepitJohnL said:

    SeanT said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    SeanT said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    The idea that Trump will be a great friend to the UK is killed with this Tweet. No friend would have sent it. If Farage were any kind of patriot he would immediately disown it.

    The only good news from all of this is that Farage's cuddle-up-close to the Donald totally and utterly discredits him as a serious political figure. Not that he was widely seen that way before, of course.

    Bedwetting lefty nonsense. Lol.

    Nope - fact. If Trump had any regard for this country or its head of state that Tweet would not have been posted. You know it, but you have no problem with it because you are a highly partisan right-winger.

    No, I'm just not an effeminate lefty nitwit. Trump is a game changer. He does things differently. The whole western world is changing. The culture wars have turned, finally, in favour of the right. Some of it will be ugly and weird and sad, some of it will be brilliant and wonderful and long overdue.

    Rejoice.
    But is Trump of the right or just an American nationalist? Remember Trump not only beat Hillary, he humiliated the Republican establishment.
    I think Trump is a Reactionary, in that all he does is to provoke a reaction. He is the Lord of Misrule. The Abbot of Unreason. Appointed to preside over the Feast of Fools, with the power to command anyone to do anything.

    It is Roman Saturnalia, when the ordinary rules of life were subverted as masters served their slaves, and the offices of state were held by slaves.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    It's also worth noting the impact of a Farage appointment on negotiations with the EU over Brexit. Not exactly the best mood music.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,898
    AlastairMeeks said:

    It's also worth noting the impact of a Farage appointment on negotiations with the EU over Brexit. Not exactly the best mood music.

    what mood music ?

    there's only the cacophony of two orchestras tuning up atm.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,659
    DecrepitJohnL said:

    SeanT said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    SeanT said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    The idea that Trump will be a great friend to the UK is killed with this Tweet. No friend would have sent it. If Farage were any kind of patriot he would immediately disown it.

    The only good news from all of this is that Farage's cuddle-up-close to the Donald totally and utterly discredits him as a serious political figure. Not that he was widely seen that way before, of course.

    Bedwetting lefty nonsense. Lol.

    Nope - fact. If Trump had any regard for this country or its head of state that Tweet would not have been posted. You know it, but you have no problem with it because you are a highly partisan right-winger.

    No, I'm just not an effeminate lefty nitwit. Trump is a game changer. He does things differently. The whole western world is changing. The culture wars have turned, finally, in favour of the right. Some of it will be ugly and weird and sad, some of it will be brilliant and wonderful and long overdue.

    Rejoice.
    But is Trump of the right or just an American nationalist? Remember Trump not only beat Hillary, he humiliated the Republican establishment.
    Boris is probably compromised as well, due to his earlier less than flattering comments about Trump. No matter how effusive he is now.

    Trump bears grudges and isn't someone to forget a slight, or who said it.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,672
    MarqueeMark said:

    DecrepitJohnL said:

    SeanT said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    SeanT said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    The idea that Trump will be a great friend to the UK is killed with this Tweet. No friend would have sent it. If Farage were any kind of patriot he would immediately disown it.

    The only good news from all of this is that Farage's cuddle-up-close to the Donald totally and utterly discredits him as a serious political figure. Not that he was widely seen that way before, of course.

    Bedwetting lefty nonsense. Lol.

    Nope - fact. If Trump had any regard for this country or its head of state that Tweet would not have been posted. You know it, but you have no problem with it because you are a highly partisan right-winger.

    No, I'm just not an effeminate lefty nitwit. Trump is a game changer. He does things differently. The whole western world is changing. The culture wars have turned, finally, in favour of the right. Some of it will be ugly and weird and sad, some of it will be brilliant and wonderful and long overdue.

    Rejoice.
    But is Trump of the right or just an American nationalist? Remember Trump not only beat Hillary, he humiliated the Republican establishment.
    I think Trump is a Reactionary, in that all he does is to provoke a reaction. He is the Lord of Misrule. The Abbot of Unreason. Appointed to preside over the Feast of Fools, with the power to command anyone to do anything.

    It is Roman Saturnalia, when the ordinary rules of life were subverted as masters served their slaves, and the offices of state were held by slaves.
    Trump is a bully. Mr Meeks is right. He should be told where to get off. If people were miffed at Obama's "back if the queue" comment they should be equally miffed at this.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,054
    Cyclefree said:

    Incidentally I share SO's concerns about Trump's advisors and the views some of them have - on white supremacy, anti-semitism, racism etc. The fact that groups like the KKK are celebrating is not good news and Britain should, for its own self-respect, be careful not to be seen as sharing or endorsing such views. It is no use criticising Corbyn for his repellent views and associations and giving a free pass to Trump.

    Realpolitik is fine. We will need to build as good a relationship as we can with the US but we need to be clear - and in public if need be - that we have certain values and that white supremacy, anti-semitism etc are not part of them.

    Hear, hear.

    The silence of so many right wingers on here and elsewhere about Trump's embrace of white supremacists, when they rightly attacked Corbyn for his tolerance and even embrace of anti-Semitism, is deafening. Turns out those attacks on Corbyn were all about partisanship, not principle.

  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    MarqueeMark said:

    DecrepitJohnL said:

    SeanT said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    SeanT said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    The idea that Trump will be a great friend to the UK is killed with this Tweet. No friend would have sent it. If Farage were any kind of patriot he would immediately disown it.

    The only good news from all of this is that Farage's cuddle-up-close to the Donald totally and utterly discredits him as a serious political figure. Not that he was widely seen that way before, of course.

    Bedwetting lefty nonsense. Lol.

    Nope - fact. If Trump had any regard for this country or its head of state that Tweet would not have been posted. You know it, but you have no problem with it because you are a highly partisan right-winger.

    No, I'm just not an effeminate lefty nitwit. Trump is a game changer. He does things differently. The whole western world is changing. The culture wars have turned, finally, in favour of the right. Some of it will be ugly and weird and sad, some of it will be brilliant and wonderful and long overdue.

    Rejoice.
    But is Trump of the right or just an American nationalist? Remember Trump not only beat Hillary, he humiliated the Republican establishment.
    I think Trump is a Reactionary, in that all he does is to provoke a reaction. He is the Lord of Misrule. The Abbot of Unreason. Appointed to preside over the Feast of Fools, with the power to command anyone to do anything.

    It is Roman Saturnalia, when the ordinary rules of life were subverted as masters served their slaves, and the offices of state were held by slaves.
    I think Saturnalia was just over a week, not four years.

    Caligula appointing his horse as Consul is more like it.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 31,906
    edited November 2016
    If the Government hadn't dismissed out of hand the possibility of Farage having some form of go-between role, I doubt this would have happened. I agree that he is totally unsuited to being ambassador. But that doesn't mean his warm relations with Trump should he wasted.
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    dugarbandier said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    For anyone who missed this

    "Hah-Hah-Hah!
    The New York Post reported:

    Donald Trump scolded media big shots during an off-the-record Trump Tower sitdown on Monday, sources told The Post.

    “It was like a f–ing firing squad,” one source said of the encounter.

    “Trump started with [CNN chief] Jeff Zucker and said ‘I hate your network, everyone at CNN is a liar and you should be ashamed,’ ” the source said.

    “The meeting was a total disaster. The TV execs and anchors went in there thinking they would be discussing the access they would get to the Trump administration, but instead they got a Trump-style dressing down,” the source added...

    http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2016/11/trumps-media-meeting-set-brought-one-room-blasted-away/

    More here

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-11-21/these-mainstream-media-anchors-just-went-record-meeting-trump

    Is that your "Hah"?

    Do you really think the US public are going to appreciate their head of state behaving like this long term?
    Think? Cut and paste, maybe.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,287
    jcesmond said:



    What it says is that the president-elect does not believe that the current UK ambassador to the US is good enough. If he did he would not have sent the Tweet. That clearly humiliates the ambassador. And it says to the UK government and the head of state: "You have the wrong man in my capital city; and, what's more, I am not going to tell you privately, I am going to tell the world - that's how much I care about our special relationship."

    Our man in Washington was very busy sending whiny telegrams back to London, and appearing in the press a week or so ago, whilst Farage took advantage of the vacuum and nipped in to grab Trumps attention. As always, the FCO is reacting to events rather than thinking a few steps ahead and setting the agenda. A quicker thinking organisation would have got their representative in first.

    Our new Man in Washington was still finding where the coffee machine was, whilst no doubt sending back intelligence on what kind of a President Hillary Clinton would be for the UK. I suspect the advice to HMG was as off the mark as all the rest of the punditry. So he is starting with the only advantage over an Ambassador Farage of knowing where the coffee machine is.

    But Farage? A Diplomat? Arf......
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,502
    Casino_Royale said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    RobD said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    The idea that Trump will be a great friend to the UK is killed with this Tweet. No friend would have sent it. If Farage were any kind of patriot he would immediately disown it.

    You think if he doesn't get his way on this he's going to throw his toys out of the pram regarding relations with Britain?
    It's possible. To be honest, I'm not expecting Trump to roll out the red carpet for the UK. Although we are probably doing so for him with a state visit next year. Given the sort of character he is, maybe that will work.. don't know.

    He has emotional ties to this country, respects Brexit, and detests the EU, but he will always act in his interests first.

    The key thing we need from him is a bilateral trade deal. He knows this, it's just a question of how best he can be influenced (if at all)
    The problem being that he's just torn up an - incredibly favourable for the US - trade deal with US allies Australia, South Korea, Japan and New Zealand.
    But he also said he'd consider replacing it with bilateral arrangements.
    Nevertheless, it's hard to imagine that would be *less* favourable to the US than TPP was.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,729
    Luckyguy1983 said:

    If the Government hadn't dismissed out of hand the possibility of Farage having some form of go-between role, I doubt this would have happened. I agree that he is totally unsuited to being ambassador. But that doesn't mean his warm relations with Trump should he wasted.

    So it's the UK government's fault!?

    Nigel Farage is an opposition politician! Would David Cameron have appointed Ed Miliband as US ambassador?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,287
    foxinsoxuk said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    DecrepitJohnL said:

    SeanT said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    SeanT said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    The idea that Trump will be a great friend to the UK is killed with this Tweet. No friend would have sent it. If Farage were any kind of patriot he would immediately disown it.

    The only good news from all of this is that Farage's cuddle-up-close to the Donald totally and utterly discredits him as a serious political figure. Not that he was widely seen that way before, of course.

    Bedwetting lefty nonsense. Lol.

    Nope - fact. If Trump had any regard for this country or its head of state that Tweet would not have been posted. You know it, but you have no problem with it because you are a highly partisan right-winger.

    No, I'm just not an effeminate lefty nitwit. Trump is a game changer. He does things differently. The whole western world is changing. The culture wars have turned, finally, in favour of the right. Some of it will be ugly and weird and sad, some of it will be brilliant and wonderful and long overdue.

    Rejoice.
    But is Trump of the right or just an American nationalist? Remember Trump not only beat Hillary, he humiliated the Republican establishment.
    I think Trump is a Reactionary, in that all he does is to provoke a reaction. He is the Lord of Misrule. The Abbot of Unreason. Appointed to preside over the Feast of Fools, with the power to command anyone to do anything.

    It is Roman Saturnalia, when the ordinary rules of life were subverted as masters served their slaves, and the offices of state were held by slaves.
    I think Saturnalia was just over a week, not four years.

    Caligula appointing his horse as Consul is more like it.
    I agree - a four year Saturnalia is more accurately a Freak Show. But the American public wanted the old order stood on its head. That is what Trump offered. It is Bread and Circuses, with some doubt whether the bread will ever arrive, but no doubt about the circus being camped on the White House lawn.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,056
    Luckyguy1983 said:

    If the Government hadn't dismissed out of hand the possibility of Farage having some form of go-between role, I doubt this would have happened. I agree that he is totally unsuited to being ambassador. But that doesn't mean his warm relations with Trump should he wasted.

    Yes, it does. It's also clear - if it was not clear before - that not only can Farage not be trusted, he's also no patriot.

    It's no wonder that Trump and Farage get on - they're cut from the same cloth.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,502
    Malmesbury said:

    rcs1000 said:

    TCPoliticalBetting said:

    Charles said:

    SimonStClare said:

    Morning all.

    What does Theresa May do about this? Ignore, American Presidents may object to Britain’s choice of Ambassador to the US, but they cannot dictate who they should be.

    Absolutely. This is simply a power play by Trump. Nothing more than that.
    If we bend the knee we'll always be a supplicant.
    Agreed but this indicates that our current Ambassador failed to build links with a 50/50 chance of POTUS.
    Hasn't our ambassador only been there about three months? I doubt he built links - during a busy election season - with either candidate.
    Willing to bet there were links with Hillary - given her time as Sec. Of State.

    With the Embassy? Sure

    But I can't imagine the new ambassador got much - if any - face time with either of the candidates in the last three months.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,054
    MarqueeMark said:

    foxinsoxuk said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    DecrepitJohnL said:

    SeanT said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    SeanT said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    The idea that Trump will be a great friend to the UK is killed with this Tweet. No friend would have sent it. If Farage were any kind of patriot he would immediately disown it.

    The only good news from all of this is that Farage's cuddle-up-close to the Donald totally and utterly discredits him as a serious political figure. Not that he was widely seen that way before, of course.

    Bedwetting lefty nonsense. Lol.

    Nope - fact. If Trump had any regard for this country or its head of state that Tweet would not have been posted. You know it, but you have no problem with it because you are a highly partisan right-winger.

    No, I'm just not an effeminate lefty nitwit. Trump is a game changer. He does things differently. The whole western world is changing. The culture wars have turned, finally, in favour of the right. Some of it will be ugly and weird and sad, some of it will be brilliant and wonderful and long overdue.

    Rejoice.
    But is Trump of the right or just an American nationalist? Remember Trump not only beat Hillary, he humiliated the Republican establishment.
    I think Trump is a Reactionary, in that all he does is to provoke a reaction. He is the Lord of Misrule. The Abbot of Unreason. Appointed to preside over the Feast of Fools, with the power to command anyone to do anything.

    It is Roman Saturnalia, when the ordinary rules of life were subverted as masters served their slaves, and the offices of state were held by slaves.
    I think Saturnalia was just over a week, not four years.

    Caligula appointing his horse as Consul is more like it.
    I agree - a four year Saturnalia is more accurately a Freak Show. But the American public wanted the old order stood on its head. That is what Trump offered. It is Bread and Circuses, with some doubt whether the bread will ever arrive, but no doubt about the circus being camped on the White House lawn.

    No, the American public wanted Clinton. Trump was not their first choice.

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,502
    edited November 2016
    Didn't Saudi Arabia attempt to tell us who we should send as ambassador a few years ago? And didn't we, quite rightly, tell them diplomatically to F off?
This discussion has been closed.