politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Some more bad polling for Labour, its leader and shadow chance
politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Some more bad polling for Labour, its leader and shadow chancellor
New Opinium pollCON 41% +1LAB 29% -3UKIP 12%LD 7%
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Ed Balls !0
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Nate Silver makes an interesting point about the Electoral College versus popular vote. The popular vote margin for Clinton would have been higher if had been worth campaigning in solidly Democrat California and New York.0
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Third!0
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You don't think republican turnout is generally depressed in those states?FF43 said:Nate Silver makes an interesting point about the Electoral College versus popular vote. The popular vote margin for Clinton would have been higher if had been worth campaigning in solidly Democrat California and New York.
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Broken, sleazy Labour on the slide!0
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I spent about 15 years in the same tradition as Corbyn & McDonnell & I can see it through their eyes. For them its going fine, everything on track. Put simply, Labour to them is raw material, of varying quality. As it stands its fairly useless but with a bit of boiling down it can be made into something valuable. If you like, its quality they want, not quantity. They are prepared to dispense with 2/3rds of the voters, half the members & 3/4rs of The MPs. Think of it as sorting the metal from the ore.
Ideally, Corbyn & his close comrades would like The Labour Right to drift away without an actual split & right now that looks like happening, its all going very well.0 -
Mrs May must be seriously thinking about engineering an election now, a landslide awaits if she goes for it.0
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"As each month goes by the next election gets closer"
Um, that would be true even if the election were in 2020!0 -
Yes, but it's differential. Clinton was criticised for not campaigning effectively in swing states, unlike Trump. Arguably she did the right thing but it was never going to pay off because the political geography doesn't work for her.RobD said:
You don't think republican turnout is generally depressed in those states?FF43 said:Nate Silver makes an interesting point about the Electoral College versus popular vote. The popular vote margin for Clinton would have been higher if had been worth campaigning in solidly Democrat California and New York.
I accept it's all hypothetical because the political system is what it is and Trump won properly by that system.0 -
What you always wonder in situations like this is who on earth are these 18%? That is almost 1 in 5. It is a remarkably high number to share such delusions.
The other thing is of course where is Clarkson? Why this obsession with May and Hammond?0 -
A much more nuanced article than the poor headline suggests. Worth pondering through the Brexit prism.
https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2016/nov/19/brain-drain-southward-310000-graduates-left-north-ten-years?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard0 -
How many more than 18% are going to vote for Labour knowing they are second best on the economy? Labour are in the low 30's in some recent polls - just cannot see how these two numbers can be reconciled.0
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European leaders have come to a 27-nation consensus that a “hard Brexit” is likely to be the only way to see off future populist insurgencies, which could lead to the break-up of the European Union.
The hardening line in EU capitals comes as Nigel Farage warns European leaders that Marine Le Pen, leader of the Front National, could deliver a political sensation bigger than Brexit and win France’s presidential election next spring – a result that would mean it was “game over” for 60 years of EU integration.
According to senior officials at the highest levels of European governments, allowing Britain favourable terms of exit could represent an existential danger to the EU, since it would encourage similar demands from other countries with significant Eurosceptic movements.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/nov/19/europes-leaders-force-uk-hard-brexit-farage-le-pen0 -
Impressive Lib Dem surge.0
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More post truth bias from the MSM.0
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Steady - pb.com is their safe space....MP_SE said:Impressive Lib Dem surge.
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On Topic: Interesting to see the Shadow Chancellor insert the unambiguous phrase " I am a Republican " into his statement backing the Buckingham Palace refit. I'm not bothered that he's a Republican and given his history he shouldn't be dishonest about it. But voluntarily inserted unambiguous statements like that into statements in 2016 when you are on the Front Bench is really quite telling.0
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These polling numbers are all before substantial campaign time is spent on Trident and the Monarchy (and other issues like support for the IRA etc).
In case anyone doesn't think the Monarchy will be an issue - it's an absolute certainty that in the first few days of the GE campaign someone will ask Corbyn if he supports the Monarchy. When he doesn't give a clear "Yes" answer then it'll be on the front page of most of the tabloids the next day and become a key campaign issue - guaranteed to do Lab massive damage.
And from there it will move on to Trident - with the backdrop of Trump maybe not providing support.0 -
"As each month goes by the next election gets closer"
A very shrewd observation!0 -
It's a form of " The Tragedy of the Commons ". So much of the populist mob was to keep grazing the commons indeed thanks it needs a bigger share of the Commons but wants to leave the tiresome management structures of the Commons that currently avoid the Tragedy. At least the US is large enough to have an internal market capable of sustainable by some domestic industries. The UK isn't as we've known for at least 600 years.Scott_P said:European leaders have come to a 27-nation consensus that a “hard Brexit” is likely to be the only way to see off future populist insurgencies, which could lead to the break-up of the European Union.
The hardening line in EU capitals comes as Nigel Farage warns European leaders that Marine Le Pen, leader of the Front National, could deliver a political sensation bigger than Brexit and win France’s presidential election next spring – a result that would mean it was “game over” for 60 years of EU integration.
According to senior officials at the highest levels of European governments, allowing Britain favourable terms of exit could represent an existential danger to the EU, since it would encourage similar demands from other countries with significant Eurosceptic movements.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/nov/19/europes-leaders-force-uk-hard-brexit-farage-le-pen
So while the article is just yet more pre negotiation posturing it contains a hard truth. In the current climate the UK can't and mustn't be allowed to piggy back on others social capital.0 -
Liz Truss, the Lord Chancellor, proposed a motion at her party conference in 1994 calling for the end of the monarchy.YellowSubmarine said:On Topic: Interesting to see the Shadow Chancellor insert the unambiguous phrase " I am a Republican " into his statement backing the Buckingham Palace refit. I'm not bothered that he's a Republican and given his history he shouldn't be dishonest about it. But voluntarily inserted unambiguous statements like that into statements in 2016 when you are on the Front Bench is really quite telling.
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[singing] It's beginning to look a lot likeScott_P said:European leaders have come to a 27-nation consensus that a “hard Brexit” is likely to be the only way to see off future populist insurgencies, which could lead to the break-up of the European Union.
The hardening line in EU capitals comes as Nigel Farage warns European leaders that Marine Le Pen, leader of the Front National, could deliver a political sensation bigger than Brexit and win France’s presidential election next spring – a result that would mean it was “game over” for 60 years of EU integration.
According to senior officials at the highest levels of European governments, allowing Britain favourable terms of exit could represent an existential danger to the EU, since it would encourage similar demands from other countries with significant Eurosceptic movements.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/nov/19/europes-leaders-force-uk-hard-brexit-farage-le-penChristmasBrexit!0 -
I suspect she is thinking that an election that Labour loses by a landslide will shock them into a rethink...a new blair type. So better its three and a half years out. That then gives us eight and a half years guaranteed Tory government. Rather than three and a half.Sandpit said:Mrs May must be seriously thinking about engineering an election now, a landslide awaits if she goes for it.
My ipad is working again thanks. Sunil.
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I don't like crApple.NoEasyDay said:
I suspect she is thinking that an election that Labour loses by a landslide will shock them into a rethink...a new blair type. So better its three and a half years out. That then gives us eight and a half years guaranteed Tory government. Rather than three and a half.Sandpit said:Mrs May must be seriously thinking about engineering an election now, a landslide awaits if she goes for it.
My ipad is working again thanks. Sunil.0 -
Stop drinking or commenting, you are incoherent.YellowSubmarine said:
It's a form of " The Tragedy of the Commons ". So much of the populist mob was to keep grazing the commons indeed thanks it needs a bigger share of the Commons but wants to leave the tiresome management structures of the Commons that currently avoid the Tragedy. At least the US is large enough to have an internal market capable of sustainable by some domestic industries. The UK isn't as we've known for at least 600 years.Scott_P said:European leaders have come to a 27-nation consensus that a “hard Brexit” is likely to be the only way to see off future populist insurgencies, which could lead to the break-up of the European Union.
The hardening line in EU capitals comes as Nigel Farage warns European leaders that Marine Le Pen, leader of the Front National, could deliver a political sensation bigger than Brexit and win France’s presidential election next spring – a result that would mean it was “game over” for 60 years of EU integration.
According to senior officials at the highest levels of European governments, allowing Britain favourable terms of exit could represent an existential danger to the EU, since it would encourage similar demands from other countries with significant Eurosceptic movements.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/nov/19/europes-leaders-force-uk-hard-brexit-farage-le-pen
So while the article is just yet more pre negotiation posturing it contains a hard truth. In the current climate the UK can't and mustn't be allowed to piggy back on others social capital.0 -
Maybe the "missing" 10-15% of Labour voters are part of the 38% who don't appear to have trust in either of the two options offered.MarqueeMark said:How many more than 18% are going to vote for Labour knowing they are second best on the economy? Labour are in the low 30's in some recent polls - just cannot see how these two numbers can be reconciled.
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Clears throat...taps mic...sniff sniff....
WRONG21st Century Socialism sweeping the nation.0 -
And you're unoriginal and ad hominem. But in the morning I will be sober !NoEasyDay said:
Stop drinking or commenting, you are incoherent.YellowSubmarine said:
It's a form of " The Tragedy of the Commons ". So much of the populist mob was to keep grazing the commons indeed thanks it needs a bigger share of the Commons but wants to leave the tiresome management structures of the Commons that currently avoid the Tragedy. At least the US is large enough to have an internal market capable of sustainable by some domestic industries. The UK isn't as we've known for at least 600 years.Scott_P said:European leaders have come to a 27-nation consensus that a “hard Brexit” is likely to be the only way to see off future populist insurgencies, which could lead to the break-up of the European Union.
The hardening line in EU capitals comes as Nigel Farage warns European leaders that Marine Le Pen, leader of the Front National, could deliver a political sensation bigger than Brexit and win France’s presidential election next spring – a result that would mean it was “game over” for 60 years of EU integration.
According to senior officials at the highest levels of European governments, allowing Britain favourable terms of exit could represent an existential danger to the EU, since it would encourage similar demands from other countries with significant Eurosceptic movements.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/nov/19/europes-leaders-force-uk-hard-brexit-farage-le-pen
So while the article is just yet more pre negotiation posturing it contains a hard truth. In the current climate the UK can't and mustn't be allowed to piggy back on others social capital.0 -
Still incoherent though.YellowSubmarine said:
And you're unoriginal and ad hominem. But in the morning I will be sober !NoEasyDay said:
Stop drinking or commenting, you are incoherent.YellowSubmarine said:
It's a form of " The Tragedy of the Commons ". So much of the populist mob was to keep grazing the commons indeed thanks it needs a bigger share of the Commons but wants to leave the tiresome management structures of the Commons that currently avoid the Tragedy. At least the US is large enough to have an internal market capable of sustainable by some domestic industries. The UK isn't as we've known for at least 600 years.Scott_P said:European leaders have come to a 27-nation consensus that a “hard Brexit” is likely to be the only way to see off future populist insurgencies, which could lead to the break-up of the European Union.
The hardening line in EU capitals comes as Nigel Farage warns European leaders that Marine Le Pen, leader of the Front National, could deliver a political sensation bigger than Brexit and win France’s presidential election next spring – a result that would mean it was “game over” for 60 years of EU integration.
According to senior officials at the highest levels of European governments, allowing Britain favourable terms of exit could represent an existential danger to the EU, since it would encourage similar demands from other countries with significant Eurosceptic movements.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/nov/19/europes-leaders-force-uk-hard-brexit-farage-le-pen
So while the article is just yet more pre negotiation posturing it contains a hard truth. In the current climate the UK can't and mustn't be allowed to piggy back on others social capital.0 -
We've years of this discussion still to come so we should all pace ourselves. The schism between globalizing and protectionist Brexiters never mattered before. But now you've won it's going to be explored in enormous detail as things unfold.Luckyguy1983 said:
Still incoherent though.YellowSubmarine said:
And you're unoriginal and ad hominem. But in the morning I will be sober !NoEasyDay said:
Stop drinking or commenting, you are incoherent.YellowSubmarine said:
It's a form of " The Tragedy of the Commons ". So much of the populist mob was to keep grazing the commons indeed thanks it needs a bigger share of the Commons but wants to leave the tiresome management structures of the Commons that currently avoid the Tragedy. At least the US is large enough to have an internal market capable of sustainable by some domestic industries. The UK isn't as we've known for at least 600 years.Scott_P said:European leaders have come to a 27-nation consensus that a “hard Brexit” is likely to be the only way to see off future populist insurgencies, which could lead to the break-up of the European Union.
The hardening line in EU capitals comes as Nigel Farage warns European leaders that Marine Le Pen, leader of the Front National, could deliver a political sensation bigger than Brexit and win France’s presidential election next spring – a result that would mean it was “game over” for 60 years of EU integration.
According to senior officials at the highest levels of European governments, allowing Britain favourable terms of exit could represent an existential danger to the EU, since it would encourage similar demands from other countries with significant Eurosceptic movements.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/nov/19/europes-leaders-force-uk-hard-brexit-farage-le-pen
So while the article is just yet more pre negotiation posturing it contains a hard truth. In the current climate the UK can't and mustn't be allowed to piggy back on others social capital.0 -
Just goolged ad hominem
"appealing to one's prejudices, emotions, or special interests rather than to one's intellect or reason."
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Isn't that the definition of "politics"?NoEasyDay said:Just goolged ad hominem
"appealing to one's prejudices, emotions, or special interests rather than to one's intellect or reason."0 -
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A good read on who Trump has appointed can be found on "insurge intelligence" I don't agree with all of it but the facts are un impeachable..unlike Trump.Scott_P said:0 -
http://order-order.com/2016/11/19/telegraph-pol-ed-dominiczak-joins-crosby-textor-fullbrook/
Will the last person at Telegraph Towers please remember to turn off the lights.0 -
There will be no anti-establishment backlash against Corbyn.MikeL said:These polling numbers are all before substantial campaign time is spent on Trident and the Monarchy (and other issues like support for the IRA etc).
In case anyone doesn't think the Monarchy will be an issue - it's an absolute certainty that in the first few days of the GE campaign someone will ask Corbyn if he supports the Monarchy. When he doesn't give a clear "Yes" answer then it'll be on the front page of most of the tabloids the next day and become a key campaign issue - guaranteed to do Lab massive damage.
And from there it will move on to Trident - with the backdrop of Trump maybe not providing support.0 -
I see Farage is working on a form of words to allow him to endorse and campaign for Le Pen personally while not supporting the FN in general. These are truly dark days and the is just the beginning. So in that sense even if Blair is a malfeasant war criminal perhaps we need him to come back ?Scott_P said:And one for the turnips...
https://twitter.com/jamesdoleman/status/8001071041198858240 -
There's a copy-paste fail or something in there but the meaning's clear to me. What part aren't you getting?NoEasyDay said:
Stop drinking or commenting, you are incoherent.YellowSubmarine said:
It's a form of " The Tragedy of the Commons ". So much of the populist mob was to keep grazing the commons indeed thanks it needs a bigger share of the Commons but wants to leave the tiresome management structures of the Commons that currently avoid the Tragedy. At least the US is large enough to have an internal market capable of sustainable by some domestic industries. The UK isn't as we've known for at least 600 years.Scott_P said:European leaders have come to a 27-nation consensus that a “hard Brexit” is likely to be the only way to see off future populist insurgencies, which could lead to the break-up of the European Union.
The hardening line in EU capitals comes as Nigel Farage warns European leaders that Marine Le Pen, leader of the Front National, could deliver a political sensation bigger than Brexit and win France’s presidential election next spring – a result that would mean it was “game over” for 60 years of EU integration.
According to senior officials at the highest levels of European governments, allowing Britain favourable terms of exit could represent an existential danger to the EU, since it would encourage similar demands from other countries with significant Eurosceptic movements.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/nov/19/europes-leaders-force-uk-hard-brexit-farage-le-pen
So while the article is just yet more pre negotiation posturing it contains a hard truth. In the current climate the UK can't and mustn't be allowed to piggy back on others social capital.0 -
Two wordsScott_P said:And one for the turnips...
https://twitter.com/jamesdoleman/status/800107104119885824
"The Hague".0 -
Blair did more harm to us staying in the EU than anyone. The failure to have the restrictions on A8 migration was his fault, as were the Middle East wars.Scott_P said:And one for the turnips...
https://twitter.com/jamesdoleman/status/8001071041198858240 -
Also the failure to have a referendum on the constitution the first time.foxinsoxuk said:
Blair did more harm to us staying in the EU than anyone. The failure to have the restrictions on A8 migration was his fault, as were the Middle East wars.Scott_P said:And one for the turnips...
https://twitter.com/jamesdoleman/status/8001071041198858240 -
William or Ffion?old_labour said:
Two wordsScott_P said:And one for the turnips...
https://twitter.com/jamesdoleman/status/800107104119885824
"The Hague".0 -
Yuppaulbarker said:I spent about 15 years in the same tradition as Corbyn & McDonnell & I can see it through their eyes. For them its going fine, everything on track. Put simply, Labour to them is raw material, of varying quality. As it stands its fairly useless but with a bit of boiling down it can be made into something valuable. If you like, its quality they want, not quantity. They are prepared to dispense with 2/3rds of the voters, half the members & 3/4rs of The MPs. Think of it as sorting the metal from the ore.
Ideally, Corbyn & his close comrades would like The Labour Right to drift away without an actual split & right now that looks like happening, its all going very well.
Ikarraaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!
Will donate £5 to charity of choice for first person to get pop culture reference0 -
Blair back in politics would be hilariousYellowSubmarine said:
I see Farage is working on a form of words to allow him to endorse and campaign for Le Pen personally while not supporting the FN in general. These are truly dark days and the is just the beginning. So in that sense even if Blair is a malfeasant war criminal perhaps we need him to come back ?Scott_P said:And one for the turnips...
https://twitter.com/jamesdoleman/status/8001071041198858240 -
Two words Tezza can utter to Tone if he tries to mess around with her.ThreeQuidder said:
William or Ffion?old_labour said:
Two wordsScott_P said:And one for the turnips...
https://twitter.com/jamesdoleman/status/800107104119885824
"The Hague".0 -
@foxinsoxuk Yes you are spot on. If he could frame it as " look these were my mistakes and look where they led. These new mistakes are going to lead.. " then he'd be useful. His response to Chilcott suggests he's not up to it.0
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It almost matches this.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Blair back in politics would be hilariousYellowSubmarine said:
I see Farage is working on a form of words to allow him to endorse and campaign for Le Pen personally while not supporting the FN in general. These are truly dark days and the is just the beginning. So in that sense even if Blair is a malfeasant war criminal perhaps we need him to come back ?Scott_P said:And one for the turnips...
https://twitter.com/jamesdoleman/status/8001071041198858240 -
I am glad the meaning is clear to you.edmundintokyo said:
There's a copy-paste fail or something in there but the meaning's clear to me. What part aren't you getting?NoEasyDay said:
Stop drinking or commenting, you are incoherent.YellowSubmarine said:
It's a form of " The Tragedy of the Commons ". So much of the populist mob was to keep grazing the commons indeed thanks it needs a bigger share of the Commons but wants to leave the tiresome management structures of the Commons that currently avoid the Tragedy. At least the US is large enough to have an internal market capable of sustainable by some domestic industries. The UK isn't as we've known for at least 600 years.Scott_P said:European leaders have come to a 27-nation consensus that a “hard Brexit” is likely to be the only way to see off future populist insurgencies, which could lead to the break-up of the European Union.
The hardening line in EU capitals comes as Nigel Farage warns European leaders that Marine Le Pen, leader of the Front National, could deliver a political sensation bigger than Brexit and win France’s presidential election next spring – a result that would mean it was “game over” for 60 years of EU integration.
According to senior officials at the highest levels of European governments, allowing Britain favourable terms of exit could represent an existential danger to the EU, since it would encourage similar demands from other countries with significant Eurosceptic movements.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/nov/19/europes-leaders-force-uk-hard-brexit-farage-le-pen
So while the article is just yet more pre negotiation posturing it contains a hard truth. In the current climate the UK can't and mustn't be allowed to piggy back on others social capital.
What is it then .?
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Don't underestimate Blair, he is evil, but a very dangerous individual.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Blair back in politics would be hilariousYellowSubmarine said:
I see Farage is working on a form of words to allow him to endorse and campaign for Le Pen personally while not supporting the FN in general. These are truly dark days and the is just the beginning. So in that sense even if Blair is a malfeasant war criminal perhaps we need him to come back ?Scott_P said:And one for the turnips...
https://twitter.com/jamesdoleman/status/800107104119885824
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And the farce of the non vote on the Constitution/Lisbon Treaty which could've ( we'll surely would've - it was unsellable to the UK electorate) headed more integration off at the pass, and prevented pressure building to full fat Brexit.foxinsoxuk said:
Blair did more harm to us staying in the EU than anyone. The failure to have the restrictions on A8 migration was his fault, as were the Middle East wars.Scott_P said:And one for the turnips...
https://twitter.com/jamesdoleman/status/800107104119885824
Blair is delusional, frankly, if he thinks he can come back. So much of his administration's "achievements" are falling apart- devolution to kill Scottish nationalism "stone dead" ( going well especially for the Labour Party (!)), anchoring Britain in Europe (a majority voted to leave), a liberal interventionist foreign policy (Iraq!!). He's utterly kidding himself.0 -
He would drive the nation to TM or the left to Corbyn. He is finished in the UKNoEasyDay said:
Don't underestimate Blair, he is evil, but a very dangerous individual.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Blair back in politics would be hilariousYellowSubmarine said:
I see Farage is working on a form of words to allow him to endorse and campaign for Le Pen personally while not supporting the FN in general. These are truly dark days and the is just the beginning. So in that sense even if Blair is a malfeasant war criminal perhaps we need him to come back ?Scott_P said:And one for the turnips...
https://twitter.com/jamesdoleman/status/8001071041198858240 -
He appears to be likening leaving the EU to the "Tragedy of the Commons" - that the UK will derive (underserved) benefit from it at the expense of others, by taking more than our share of the common... something. Apparently, if the UK doesn't suffer from exit, then Marshall Petain will stumble out of his crypt etc etc.NoEasyDay said:
I am glad the meaning is clear to you.edmundintokyo said:
There's a copy-paste fail or something in there but the meaning's clear to me. What part aren't you getting?NoEasyDay said:
Stop drinking or commenting, you are incoherent.YellowSubmarine said:
It's a form of " The Tragedy of the Commons ". So much of the populist mob was to keep grazing the commons indeed thanks it needs a bigger share of the Commons but wants to leave the tiresome management structures of the Commons that currently avoid the Tragedy. At least the US is large enough to have an internal market capable of sustainable by some domestic industries. The UK isn't as we've known for at least 600 years.Scott_P said:European leaders have come to a 27-nation consensus that a “hard Brexit” is likely to be the only way to see off future populist insurgencies, which could lead to the break-up of the European Union.
The hardening line in EU capitals comes as Nigel Farage warns European leaders that Marine Le Pen, leader of the Front National, could deliver a political sensation bigger than Brexit and win France’s presidential election next spring – a result that would mean it was “game over” for 60 years of EU integration.
According to senior officials at the highest levels of European governments, allowing Britain favourable terms of exit could represent an existential danger to the EU, since it would encourage similar demands from other countries with significant Eurosceptic movements.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/nov/19/europes-leaders-force-uk-hard-brexit-farage-le-pen
So while the article is just yet more pre negotiation posturing it contains a hard truth. In the current climate the UK can't and mustn't be allowed to piggy back on others social capital.
What is it then .?
Interesting that a Remainer believes that leaving the EU would be beneficial - unless dealt with....
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Your even more incoherent.Malmesbury said:
He appears to be likening leaving the EU to the "Tragedy of the Commons" - that the UK will derive (underserved) benefit from it at the expense of others, by taking more than our share of the common... something. Apparently, if the UK doesn't suffer from exit, then Marshall Petain will stumble out of his crypt etc etc.NoEasyDay said:
I am glad the meaning is clear to you.edmundintokyo said:
There's a copy-paste fail or something in there but the meaning's clear to me. What part aren't you getting?NoEasyDay said:
Stop drinking or commenting, you are incoherent.YellowSubmarine said:
It's a form of " The Tragedy of the Commons ". So much of the populist mob was to keep grazing the commons indeed thanks it needs a bigger share of the Commons but wants to leave the tiresome management structures of the Commons that currently avoid the Tragedy. At least the US is large enough to have an internal market capable of sustainable by some domestic industries. The UK isn't as we've known for at least 600 years.Scott_P said:European leaders have come to a 27-nation consensus that a “hard Brexit” is likely to be the only way to see off future populist insurgencies, which could lead to the break-up of the European Union.
The hardening line in EU capitals comes as Nigel Farage warns European leaders that Marine Le Pen, leader of the Front National, could deliver a political sensation bigger than Brexit and win France’s presidential election next spring – a result that would mean it was “game over” for 60 years of EU integration.
According to senior officials at the highest levels of European governments, allowing Britain favourable terms of exit could represent an existential danger to the EU, since it would encourage similar demands from other countries with significant Eurosceptic movements.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/nov/19/europes-leaders-force-uk-hard-brexit-farage-le-pen
So while the article is just yet more pre negotiation posturing it contains a hard truth. In the current climate the UK can't and mustn't be allowed to piggy back on others social capital.
What is it then .?
Interesting that a Remainer believes that leaving the EU would be beneficial - unless dealt with....0 -
Spot on .foxinsoxuk said:
Blair did more harm to us staying in the EU than anyone. The failure to have the restrictions on A8 migration was his fault, as were the Middle East wars.Scott_P said:And one for the turnips...
https://twitter.com/jamesdoleman/status/8001071041198858240 -
On the old thespian seeking the limelight?Tykejohnno said:
Spot on .foxinsoxuk said:
Blair did more harm to us staying in the EU than anyone. The failure to have the restrictions on A8 migration was his fault, as were the Middle East wars.Scott_P said:And one for the turnips...
https://twitter.com/jamesdoleman/status/800107104119885824
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Norman Desmond!geoffw said:
On the old thespian seeking the limelight?Tykejohnno said:
Spot on .foxinsoxuk said:
Blair did more harm to us staying in the EU than anyone. The failure to have the restrictions on A8 migration was his fault, as were the Middle East wars.Scott_P said:And one for the turnips...
https://twitter.com/jamesdoleman/status/8001071041198858240 -
That is hardly new within the overall context of the UK, though, is it. The upper sixth at my school had 70 students. All but 3 left Plymouth. I am unaware that any returned there for work.YellowSubmarine said:A much more nuanced article than the poor headline suggests. Worth pondering through the Brexit prism.
https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2016/nov/19/brain-drain-southward-310000-graduates-left-north-ten-years?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard-1 -
transgendered!old_labour said:
Norman Desmond!geoffw said:
On the old thespian seeking the limelight?Tykejohnno said:
Spot on .foxinsoxuk said:
Blair did more harm to us staying in the EU than anyone. The failure to have the restrictions on A8 migration was his fault, as were the Middle East wars.Scott_P said:And one for the turnips...
https://twitter.com/jamesdoleman/status/800107104119885824
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No it's not remotely new. It's one of our well entrenched economic problems that leaving or remaining will do bugger all about.MTimT said:
That is hardly new within the overall context of the UK, though, is it. The upper sixth at my school had 70 students. All but 3 left Plymouth. I am unaware that any returned there for work.YellowSubmarine said:A much more nuanced article than the poor headline suggests. Worth pondering through the Brexit prism.
https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2016/nov/19/brain-drain-southward-310000-graduates-left-north-ten-years?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard0 -
Perhaps you remember the Remove rather than the Upper 6th.MTimT said:
That is hardly new within the overall context of the UK, though, is it. The upper sixth at my school had 70 students. All but 3 left Plymouth. I am unaware that any returned there for work.YellowSubmarine said:A much more nuanced article than the poor headline suggests. Worth pondering through the Brexit prism.
https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2016/nov/19/brain-drain-southward-310000-graduates-left-north-ten-years?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard
0 -
Does ANYONE believe Labour at 29% is realistic. Frankly , I think its fanciful.0
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First question to Blair.. Why did you allow so many of our soldiers to die in an illegal war.. Doesn't matter as to the truthfulness. He will be tied in knots indefinitely.Tykejohnno said:
Spot on .foxinsoxuk said:
Blair did more harm to us staying in the EU than anyone. The failure to have the restrictions on A8 migration was his fault, as were the Middle East wars.Scott_P said:And one for the turnips...
https://twitter.com/jamesdoleman/status/800107104119885824
He should be in court, not in politics.0 -
I'm ready for my shot now, Mr Executioner!geoffw said:
transgendered!old_labour said:
Norman Desmond!geoffw said:
On the old thespian seeking the limelight?Tykejohnno said:
Spot on .foxinsoxuk said:
Blair did more harm to us staying in the EU than anyone. The failure to have the restrictions on A8 migration was his fault, as were the Middle East wars.Scott_P said:And one for the turnips...
https://twitter.com/jamesdoleman/status/8001071041198858240 -
It's hard to believe for sure.SquareRoot said:Does ANYONE believe Labour at 29% is realistic. Frankly , I think its fanciful.
0 -
"I hate the word comeback. It's a return, a return to the millions of people who have never forgiven me for deserting the scene!"old_labour said:
Norman Desmond!geoffw said:
On the old thespian seeking the limelight?Tykejohnno said:
Spot on .foxinsoxuk said:
Blair did more harm to us staying in the EU than anyone. The failure to have the restrictions on A8 migration was his fault, as were the Middle East wars.Scott_P said:And one for the turnips...
https://twitter.com/jamesdoleman/status/8001071041198858240 -
As he should beBig_G_NorthWales said:
He would drive the nation to TM or the left to Corbyn. He is finished in the UKNoEasyDay said:
Don't underestimate Blair, he is evil, but a very dangerous individual.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Blair back in politics would be hilariousYellowSubmarine said:
I see Farage is working on a form of words to allow him to endorse and campaign for Le Pen personally while not supporting the FN in general. These are truly dark days and the is just the beginning. So in that sense even if Blair is a malfeasant war criminal perhaps we need him to come back ?Scott_P said:And one for the turnips...
https://twitter.com/jamesdoleman/status/800107104119885824
"trust me" says Tony..... err we did, how did that work out again0 -
I agree with this. Unfortunately he's more likely to frame it as, "Look, Chirac said he would veto a UN resolution whatever the circumstances and then he told the eastern Europeans to shut up. I did the right thing."YellowSubmarine said:@foxinsoxuk Yes you are spot on. If he could frame it as " look these were my mistakes and look where they led. These new mistakes are going to lead.. " then he'd be useful. His response to Chilcott suggests he's not up to it.
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Yawn - can you cut and paste something different for a change?Scott_P said:European leaders have come to a 27-nation consensus that a “hard Brexit” is likely to be the only way to see off future populist insurgencies, which could lead to the break-up of the European Union.
The hardening line in EU capitals comes as Nigel Farage warns European leaders that Marine Le Pen, leader of the Front National, could deliver a political sensation bigger than Brexit and win France’s presidential election next spring – a result that would mean it was “game over” for 60 years of EU integration.
According to senior officials at the highest levels of European governments, allowing Britain favourable terms of exit could represent an existential danger to the EU, since it would encourage similar demands from other countries with significant Eurosceptic movements.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/nov/19/europes-leaders-force-uk-hard-brexit-farage-le-pen
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Who needs votes when you can arm the workers.Sunil_Prasannan said:Broken, sleazy Labour on the slide!
Viva the revolution comrades!0 -
The level of negativity here smacks of panic from the right as their old foe limbers up again.Floater said:
As he should beBig_G_NorthWales said:
He would drive the nation to TM or the left to Corbyn. He is finished in the UKNoEasyDay said:
Don't underestimate Blair, he is evil, but a very dangerous individual.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Blair back in politics would be hilariousYellowSubmarine said:
I see Farage is working on a form of words to allow him to endorse and campaign for Le Pen personally while not supporting the FN in general. These are truly dark days and the is just the beginning. So in that sense even if Blair is a malfeasant war criminal perhaps we need him to come back ?Scott_P said:And one for the turnips...
https://twitter.com/jamesdoleman/status/800107104119885824
"trust me" says Tony..... err we did, how did that work out again0 -
What's the opposite of shy Labour voters? immodest Labour?SquareRoot said:Does ANYONE believe Labour at 29% is realistic. Frankly , I think its fanciful.
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It's not a problem either. Smart people want to work where other smart people are. The UK isn't very big, so they'll tend to congregate in one city.YellowSubmarine said:
No it's not remotely new. It's one of our well entrenched economic problems that leaving or remaining will do bugger all about.MTimT said:
That is hardly new within the overall context of the UK, though, is it. The upper sixth at my school had 70 students. All but 3 left Plymouth. I am unaware that any returned there for work.YellowSubmarine said:A much more nuanced article than the poor headline suggests. Worth pondering through the Brexit prism.
https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2016/nov/19/brain-drain-southward-310000-graduates-left-north-ten-years?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard0 -
On a subject which I find odd that seems to be of little interest to most posters on this site, there is a serious battle going on in the Richmond Park by election which is really about Brexit and not opposition to the third runway at Heathrow as Goldsmith junior wanted it to be. From anecdotal experiences of Lib Dem canvassers I have heard, I think the Lib Dems chances are much better now than 3-1 as suggested by Barnesian in a post on a string a few days ago. Has anybody here have any evidence to the contrary?0
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Mr Goupillon. Haven't seen you posting in a while. Welcome back.Goupillon said:On a subject which I find odd that seems to be of little interest to most posters on this site, there is a serious battle going on in the Richmond Park by election which is really about Brexit and not opposition to the third runway at Heathrow as Goldsmith junior wanted it to be. From anecdotal experiences of Lib Dem canvassers I have heard, I think the Lib Dems chances are much better now than 3-1 as suggested by Barnesian in a post on a string a few days ago. Has anybody here have any evidence to the contrary?
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Kneejerk Labour? Tribal Labour? Muscle-memory Labour?rottenborough said:
What's the opposite of shy Labour voters? immodest Labour?SquareRoot said:Does ANYONE believe Labour at 29% is realistic. Frankly , I think its fanciful.
0 -
LOL - believe that all you want torottenborough said:
The level of negativity here smacks of panic from the right as their old foe limbers up again.Floater said:
As he should beBig_G_NorthWales said:
He would drive the nation to TM or the left to Corbyn. He is finished in the UKNoEasyDay said:
Don't underestimate Blair, he is evil, but a very dangerous individual.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Blair back in politics would be hilariousYellowSubmarine said:
I see Farage is working on a form of words to allow him to endorse and campaign for Le Pen personally while not supporting the FN in general. These are truly dark days and the is just the beginning. So in that sense even if Blair is a malfeasant war criminal perhaps we need him to come back ?Scott_P said:And one for the turnips...
https://twitter.com/jamesdoleman/status/800107104119885824
"trust me" says Tony..... err we did, how did that work out again0 -
Much though I'd like to believe you my experience of canvassers and canvassing is that they tend to be over-optimistic.Goupillon said:On a subject which I find odd that seems to be of little interest to most posters on this site, there is a serious battle going on in the Richmond Park by election which is really about Brexit and not opposition to the third runway at Heathrow as Goldsmith junior wanted it to be. From anecdotal experiences of Lib Dem canvassers I have heard, I think the Lib Dems chances are much better now than 3-1 as suggested by Barnesian in a post on a string a few days ago. Has anybody here have any evidence to the contrary?
As an example, my most recent experience was running a Remain stall in our local market on Referendum Day and being reasonably sure from the responses that the result, in our area at least ,would be close. I don't know what it was in our ward, but overall the Council area was 53k Leave, 33k Remain.0 -
For comparison, the May 2015 Opinium had Cameron and Osborne leading Miliband and Balls by 39% to 25%.0
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Momentum.rottenborough said:
What's the opposite of shy Labour voters? immodest Labour?SquareRoot said:Does ANYONE believe Labour at 29% is realistic. Frankly , I think its fanciful.
0 -
Can I refer you to the thread header. Complacency is more of a threat to the Tories than panic.rottenborough said:
The level of negativity here smacks of panic from the right as their old foe limbers up again.Floater said:
As he should beBig_G_NorthWales said:
He would drive the nation to TM or the left to Corbyn. He is finished in the UKNoEasyDay said:
Don't underestimate Blair, he is evil, but a very dangerous individual.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Blair back in politics would be hilariousYellowSubmarine said:
I see Farage is working on a form of words to allow him to endorse and campaign for Le Pen personally while not supporting the FN in general. These are truly dark days and the is just the beginning. So in that sense even if Blair is a malfeasant war criminal perhaps we need him to come back ?Scott_P said:And one for the turnips...
https://twitter.com/jamesdoleman/status/800107104119885824
"trust me" says Tony..... err we did, how did that work out again
Blair's time is long gone. The country was happy to see him go in 2007. Returning to the fray now would be like Thatcher returning to the front line in 1999. Besides, who would he bat for? His old vision of both Labour and the country is out of step with the times. If he has a new one it'll be closer to May's than Corbyn's.0 -
I wonder, Mr H, if it's not so much complacency as lack of conviction. Agree with you, though, about Blair. Churchill was 'in the wilderness' for at least ten years, though, but I don't think returning to the gold standard anywhere equals the Iraq disaster.david_herdson said:
Can I refer you to the thread header. Complacency is more of a threat to the Tories than panic.rottenborough said:
The level of negativity here smacks of panic from the right as their old foe limbers up again.Floater said:
As he should beBig_G_NorthWales said:
He would drive the nation to TM or the left to Corbyn. He is finished in the UKNoEasyDay said:
Don't underestimate Blair, he is evil, but a very dangerous individual.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Blair back in politics would be hilariousYellowSubmarine said:
I see Farage is working on a form of words to allow him to endorse and campaign for Le Pen personally while not supporting the FN in general. These are truly dark days and the is just the beginning. So in that sense even if Blair is a malfeasant war criminal perhaps we need him to come back ?Scott_P said:And one for the turnips...
https://twitter.com/jamesdoleman/status/800107104119885824
"trust me" says Tony..... err we did, how did that work out again
Blair's time is long gone. The country was happy to see him go in 2007. Returning to the fray now would be like Thatcher returning to the front line in 1999. Besides, who would he bat for? His old vision of both Labour and the country is out of step with the times. If he has a new one it'll be closer to May's than Corbyn's.0 -
Churchill was in the political wilderness for ten years but he was in the House, which meant he could question the govt directly on issues like rearmament. That ultimately enabled his return when he was proven both right and relevant. I don't see any parallel for Blair.OldKingCole said:
I wonder, Mr H, if it's not so much complacency as lack of conviction. Agree with you, though, about Blair. Churchill was 'in the wilderness' for at least ten years, though, but I don't think returning to the gold standard anywhere equals the Iraq disaster.david_herdson said:
Can I refer you to the thread header. Complacency is more of a threat to the Tories than panic.rottenborough said:
The level of negativity here smacks of panic from the right as their old foe limbers up again.Floater said:
As he should beBig_G_NorthWales said:
He would drive the nation to TM or the left to Corbyn. He is finished in the UKNoEasyDay said:
Don't underestimate Blair, he is evil, but a very dangerous individual.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Blair back in politics would be hilariousYellowSubmarine said:
I see Farage is working on a form of words to allow him to endorse and campaign for Le Pen personally while not supporting the FN in general. These are truly dark days and the is just the beginning. So in that sense even if Blair is a malfeasant war criminal perhaps we need him to come back ?Scott_P said:And one for the turnips...
https://twitter.com/jamesdoleman/status/800107104119885824
"trust me" says Tony..... err we did, how did that work out again
Blair's time is long gone. The country was happy to see him go in 2007. Returning to the fray now would be like Thatcher returning to the front line in 1999. Besides, who would he bat for? His old vision of both Labour and the country is out of step with the times. If he has a new one it'll be closer to May's than Corbyn's.
Interesting observation you make re complacency / lack of conviction, and one I need t give more thought to.0 -
Smart people want to work where the good jobs are. Employers tend to cluster.edmundintokyo said:
It's not a problem either. Smart people want to work where other smart people are. The UK isn't very big, so they'll tend to congregate in one city.YellowSubmarine said:
No it's not remotely new. It's one of our well entrenched economic problems that leaving or remaining will do bugger all about.MTimT said:
That is hardly new within the overall context of the UK, though, is it. The upper sixth at my school had 70 students. All but 3 left Plymouth. I am unaware that any returned there for work.YellowSubmarine said:A much more nuanced article than the poor headline suggests. Worth pondering through the Brexit prism.
https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2016/nov/19/brain-drain-southward-310000-graduates-left-north-ten-years?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard0 -
That's the same point, expressed with a layer of indirection.DecrepitJohnL said:
Smart people want to work where the good jobs are. Employers tend to cluster.edmundintokyo said:
It's not a problem either. Smart people want to work where other smart people are. The UK isn't very big, so they'll tend to congregate in one city.YellowSubmarine said:
No it's not remotely new. It's one of our well entrenched economic problems that leaving or remaining will do bugger all about.MTimT said:
That is hardly new within the overall context of the UK, though, is it. The upper sixth at my school had 70 students. All but 3 left Plymouth. I am unaware that any returned there for work.YellowSubmarine said:A much more nuanced article than the poor headline suggests. Worth pondering through the Brexit prism.
https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2016/nov/19/brain-drain-southward-310000-graduates-left-north-ten-years?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard0 -
Employers tend to cluster where people want to be. It is something of a chicken and egg, but people want to be where the action is at, and the action is more than just the job - it is the whole environment. Good job (not just the pay, but the challenge and sense of purpose), fun place to live with lots of cultural events or sporting opportunities, surrounded by stimulating people.DecrepitJohnL said:
Smart people want to work where the good jobs are. Employers tend to cluster.edmundintokyo said:
It's not a problem either. Smart people want to work where other smart people are. The UK isn't very big, so they'll tend to congregate in one city.YellowSubmarine said:
No it's not remotely new. It's one of our well entrenched economic problems that leaving or remaining will do bugger all about.MTimT said:
That is hardly new within the overall context of the UK, though, is it. The upper sixth at my school had 70 students. All but 3 left Plymouth. I am unaware that any returned there for work.YellowSubmarine said:A much more nuanced article than the poor headline suggests. Worth pondering through the Brexit prism.
https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2016/nov/19/brain-drain-southward-310000-graduates-left-north-ten-years?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard
While companies within an industry do tend to cluster, there are only so many locations that offer the fun place to live and the concentration of stimulating people that make them attractive places for business.
Think of where businesses locate in the US. Unless you are fracking, you do not locate in the Dakotas. Extraction industries have to be where the raw material is, and farming has to be where the farmland is. But the knowledge industry is not bound in that manner.
Where do knowledge industries locate? You do locate in the big cities with lots of culture (LA, NY, Chicago), near the beaches or mountains for the outdoor sports California, Florida, Colorado), or near top research universities or the big government labs for the stimulating people (NC's research triangle, Princeton/New Jersey, Cambridge/Boston, Austin, Santa Fe, Albuquerque, Silicon Valley) or near government (DC) and major military bases (San Diego, Norfolk/Virginia Beach). That sounds a lot, but really, there are not that many options for where to locate.0 -
The same point expressed with causation the right way round for the most part, though perhaps it is true that artistic types tend to cluster with other artists rather than being led by the job market.edmundintokyo said:
That's the same point, expressed with a layer of indirection.DecrepitJohnL said:
Smart people want to work where the good jobs are. Employers tend to cluster.edmundintokyo said:
It's not a problem either. Smart people want to work where other smart people are. The UK isn't very big, so they'll tend to congregate in one city.YellowSubmarine said:
No it's not remotely new. It's one of our well entrenched economic problems that leaving or remaining will do bugger all about.MTimT said:
That is hardly new within the overall context of the UK, though, is it. The upper sixth at my school had 70 students. All but 3 left Plymouth. I am unaware that any returned there for work.YellowSubmarine said:A much more nuanced article than the poor headline suggests. Worth pondering through the Brexit prism.
https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2016/nov/19/brain-drain-southward-310000-graduates-left-north-ten-years?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard
The government could act. I had some hope for George Osborne's northern powerhouse but it seemed to be more about headlines than economics.0 -
Morning. Tony Blair, really, Tony Blair? He was Leave's best spokesman back in June, the best thing he can do for his cause is to crawl back under his rock and never be seen again.0
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"“The challenge we have is that partly because of geographic distribution, there are big chunks of the country that just aren’t hearing us,” Mr. Obama acknowledged Monday during a Democratic National Committee conference call."
Er ... Isn't the problem not that they aren't hearing you, but that you aren't listening to them?0 -
For what its worth in my own industry now you can get an pretty much equally well paid job in Birmingham, Leeds or Manchester as you can in London. Many people moved away for university and then to work and then moved back after 5-10 years due to the cost of housing in London. Similarly working in London I see a drain out to the north, the west country, the midlands etc. The very best paid jobs (megabucks) are still in London, but there aren't that many of them, and very few people run the course in to their thirties when they want to start bringing up families etc. Even staying in the south east and commuting in to London is too expensive on a single income. You need to earn 60-70k, which is out of the reach of most people. Why do that when you can have a bigger house, nicer area, better schools, easier commute.DecrepitJohnL said:
The same point expressed with causation the right way round for the most part, though perhaps it is true that artistic types tend to cluster with other artists rather than being led by the job market.edmundintokyo said:
That's the same point, expressed with a layer of indirection.DecrepitJohnL said:
Smart people want to work where the good jobs are. Employers tend to cluster.edmundintokyo said:
It's not a problem either. Smart people want to work where other smart people are. The UK isn't very big, so they'll tend to congregate in one city.YellowSubmarine said:
No it's not remotely new. It's one of our well entrenched economic problems that leaving or remaining will do bugger all about.MTimT said:
That is hardly new within the overall context of the UK, though, is it. The upper sixth at my school had 70 students. All but 3 left Plymouth. I am unaware that any returned there for work.YellowSubmarine said:A much more nuanced article than the poor headline suggests. Worth pondering through the Brexit prism.
https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2016/nov/19/brain-drain-southward-310000-graduates-left-north-ten-years?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard
The government could act. I had some hope for George Osborne's northern powerhouse but it seemed to be more about headlines than economics.
People leaving the north is not a major problem.0 -
Quite. And if that's a problem, government could deal with it through taxation and service provision - e.g. by charging for health-care in London (except, of course, to Tory party membersMTimT said:
Employers tend to cluster where people want to be. It is something of a chicken and egg, but people want to be where the action is at, and the action is more than just the job - it is the whole environment. Good job (not just the pay, but the challenge and sense of purpose), fun place to live with lots of cultural events or sporting opportunities, surrounded by stimulating people.DecrepitJohnL said:
Smart people want to work where the good jobs are. Employers tend to cluster.edmundintokyo said:
It's not a problem either. Smart people want to work where other smart people are. The UK isn't very big, so they'll tend to congregate in one city.YellowSubmarine said:
No it's not remotely new. It's one of our well entrenched economic problems that leaving or remaining will do bugger all about.MTimT said:
That is hardly new within the overall context of the UK, though, is it. The upper sixth at my school had 70 students. All but 3 left Plymouth. I am unaware that any returned there for work.YellowSubmarine said:A much more nuanced article than the poor headline suggests. Worth pondering through the Brexit prism.
https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2016/nov/19/brain-drain-southward-310000-graduates-left-north-ten-years?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard
While companies within an industry do tend to cluster, there are only so many locations that offer the fun place to live and the concentration of stimulating people that make them attractive places for business.
Think of where businesses locate in the US. Unless you are fracking, you do not locate in the Dakotas. Extraction industries have to be where the raw material is, and farming has to be where the farmland is. But the knowledge industry is not bound in that manner.
Where do knowledge industries locate? You do locate in the big cities with lots of culture (LA, NY, Chicago), near the beaches or mountains for the outdoor sports California, Florida, Colorado), or near top research universities or the big government labs for the stimulating people (NC's research triangle, Princeton/New Jersey, Cambridge/Boston, Austin, Santa Fe, Albuquerque, Silicon Valley) or near government (DC) and major military bases (San Diego, Norfolk/Virginia Beach). That sounds a lot, but really, there are not that many options for where to locate.
)
0 -
would be interesting to get some feedback from goldsmiths campaign.OldKingCole said:
Much though I'd like to believe you my experience of canvassers and canvassing is that they tend to be over-optimistic.Goupillon said:On a subject which I find odd that seems to be of little interest to most posters on this site, there is a serious battle going on in the Richmond Park by election which is really about Brexit and not opposition to the third runway at Heathrow as Goldsmith junior wanted it to be. From anecdotal experiences of Lib Dem canvassers I have heard, I think the Lib Dems chances are much better now than 3-1 as suggested by Barnesian in a post on a string a few days ago. Has anybody here have any evidence to the contrary?
As an example, my most recent experience was running a Remain stall in our local market on Referendum Day and being reasonably sure from the responses that the result, in our area at least ,would be close. I don't know what it was in our ward, but overall the Council area was 53k Leave, 33k Remain.0 -
I struggle with why the initial poster looks to tie this with Brexit. The trend has long been for people to move to Lndon when younger and then move out and perhaps back to the North or wherever when with children. It's harder of course for serious national newspaper journalists and certainly since the Manchester Guardian decided that it needed to be based in London and rebrand. Perhaps that newspaper could lead the revitalisation and return.edmundintokyo said:
That's the same point, expressed with a layer of indirection.DecrepitJohnL said:
Smart people want to work where the good jobs are. Employers tend to cluster.edmundintokyo said:
It's not a problem either. Smart people want to work where other smart people are. The UK isn't very big, so they'll tend to congregate in one city.YellowSubmarine said:
No it's not remotely new. It's one of our well entrenched economic problems that leaving or remaining will do bugger all about.MTimT said:
That is hardly new within the overall context of the UK, though, is it. The upper sixth at my school had 70 students. All but 3 left Plymouth. I am unaware that any returned there for work.YellowSubmarine said:A much more nuanced article than the poor headline suggests. Worth pondering through the Brexit prism.
https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2016/nov/19/brain-drain-southward-310000-graduates-left-north-ten-years?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard0 -
Next GE (10/10 to vote) shares from Opinium: Leave 54.3% Remain 45.7%
Their 10/10 indicator is usually their most accurate one.
The Europond is shrinking.0
