Supporting gay marriage doesn't in itself make someone socially liberal. Having a foreign wife doesn't really mean anything. There are people out in interracial relationships with racist views. Once I discovered that I realised anything is possible.
What makes someone socially liberal so we can check if we are or not?
@SeanT I real life I don't hear people getting upset over Jamaican culture, Black History month, and belittle people's concerns as 'playing the race card'. Most people just see others as people, and go about their business.
I would sulife, that they find it less extreme, can be stated definitively to be true either, though I hope so.
I'm sure there are racists out there, but they aren't the majority in this country. When referring to my real experiences, I was referring to another group of people that I know and talk politics with. I don't have a site to compare this to, because I only really go this site in regard to political discussion these days.
You earlier said
"This is the only site I go on where people try to normalise their bizarre views on ethnic minorities and their cultures."
How can you say that this site is unusual in that regard if it's the only one you visit that talks about politics which (I would argue) naturally leads to discussion of such issues?
Site as in generally (I visit plently of non-political sites).
OK. Fuck off then?
You can leave with your sneering opinions of us intact; for me, you will have fucked off like the tedious bleating liberal coward you are, so we all win. The solution is: you just fuck off.
Deal?
How is it ok to post stuff like this?
Coz this person just told us we were all evil racists.
"Fuck off" is pretty mild in response.
You're hounding people off the site.
It's a strategy you've used time and time again.
Look, just LEAVE if you don't like it. Just go. Because this is my strategy, and everyone understands it. I simply hound people off the site. I drive them away, And if you don't like it, you know where the EXIT door is.
If everyone had followed your instructions, there would only be you and Tyson's dog left on here. Some debating forum that would be.
If you sincerely believe that the BAME community is pro-gay, unified in their welcoming acceptance of alternative religion and wholly endorse eastern european immigration then you are, putting it kindly, misguided.
As someone who is a part of the BAME community, I think I know a bit about what people within it think. I've talked politics with people from various walks of life, certainly not just those 22 and under. I've also talked about homophobia within the Black community (and other ethnic minority communities) on this site too. Although, given that most ethnic minorities voted IN, I doubt they take as much umbrage with EU immigration as the rest of the population.
I think you'd be surprised at the large numbers of ethnic minority voters who opted for LEAVE.
I think it's more socially liberal that you are. You seem to be infused with prejudice against millions of decent people, who read the Mail or vote Conservative.
I wouldn't worry too much about Richard N's views.....he can be quite ridiculously pompous.....like now......
By the way Apocalypse keep going....I love it when you wind up the usual brigade......
Everyone needs to be challenged.
Don't suggest rerunning the referendum though, that'd set everybody off
I think it's more socially liberal that you are. You seem to be infused with prejudice against millions of decent people, who read the Mail or vote Conservative.
I wouldn't worry too much about Richard N's views.....he can be quite ridiculously pompous.....like now......
By the way Apocalypse keep going....I love it when you wind up the usual brigade......
Everyone needs to be challenged.
Don't suggest rerunning the referendum though, that'd set everybody off
It's sort of worse as a quote, I mean we know there's a social media team doing this stuff, but they presumably thought that was a good bit rather than drivel.
I think it's more socially liberal that you are. You seem to be infused with prejudice against millions of decent people, who read the Mail or vote Conservative.
I wouldn't worry too much about Richard N's views.....he can be quite ridiculously pompous.....like now......
By the way Apocalypse keep going....I love it when you wind up the usual brigade......
Everyone needs to be challenged.
Don't suggest rerunning the referendum though, that'd set everybody off
I think it's more socially liberal that you are. You seem to be infused with prejudice against millions of decent people, who read the Mail or vote Conservative.
I wouldn't worry too much about Richard N's views.....he can be quite ridiculously pompous.....like now......
By the way Apocalypse keep going....I love it when you wind up the usual brigade......
Thank you tynson. PBers can't get everything their own way all the time....;)
RE all those who responded to me on the 'socially liberal' post: dismissing concerns about sexism and racism, and going on about the 'PC Brigade and the 'liberal elite' is not the sign of people who are socially liberal. People who are socially liberal don't actually see the word 'liberal' as an insult. And secondly, they you know, care about racism and sexism.
People like you don't get to decide how the BAME community see themselves.
The BAME community does not really exist.
There are lots of people who are BAME. They are not a community. In my experience people will self segregate around race and religion - even after all the white people are removed.
Feminists, BLM activists, and anyone who is more leftwing that SouthamObserver are treated as more insane and deluded than a Holocaust denier who is referred to positively, on this site if anything. People are more tolerant of Donald Trump, a man who admits to sexual assault than any self-declared socialist. There is an increasing consensus that common sense views = right wing views. People complain about Sun Readers and Trump voters being sneered at, but that's exactly what people do to do minorities when they even dare to talk about racism.
This is the only site I go on where people try to normalise their bizarre views on ethnic minorities and their cultures. I real life I don't hear people getting upset over Jamaican culture, Black History month, and belittle people's concerns as 'playing the race card'. Most people just see others as people, and go about their business. They don't see ethnic minorities as some weird 'other', that are still under integration surveillance.
And yet, Brexit.
CHORTLE
Huh? You, @Sean_F (judging by his response) seem to think Brexit means that the electorate subscribes to the enterity of your views. I actually know people who voted for Brexit and let's just say they don't share PB's 'views'.
@Sean_F Stop thinking everyone who votes Conservative has PB views. Floating voters, are not the same as people who are right-wing for most of their lives. Disgruntled voters who see UKIP as their 'up yours' option, aren't the same as people on this site either.
@Mortimer You and other right-leaning Conservatives 'claim', this site is reasonable. Perhaps it used to be. Now, it's not.
I think the most common viewpoint here is economically right wing, socially liberal, pro-Brexit.
I think public opinion is generally more hardline on social issues than it is here, but more left wing on economics.
I don't think the political centre on here is too far from the political centre of the nation, on the basis of current polls. And there are plenty of lefties here too - Southam, Jonathan, Foxinsox, NPXMP, Tyson, Sandy Rentool, Roger, and so on. I agree though that the libertarian right is probably more represented here than in real life
I voted Labour at GE2015
But, having said that, Sunil does mean "blue"
Sunil, even by this site's standards you are sui generis!
If you sincerely believe that the BAME community is pro-gay, unified in their welcoming acceptance of alternative religion and wholly endorse eastern european immigration then you are, putting it kindly, misguided.
As someone who is a part of the BAME community, I think I know a bit about what people within it think. I've talked politics with people from various walks of life, certainly not just those 22 and under. I've also talked about homophobia within the Black community (and other ethnic minority communities) on this site too. Although, given that most ethnic minorities voted IN, I doubt they take as much umbrage with EU immigration as the rest of the population.
Are there any reliable stats on how different ethnicities voted in the referendum? ISTR ethnic minorities being reported as rather less keen on the EU than was expected.
I think it's more socially liberal that you are. You seem to be infused with prejudice against millions of decent people, who read the Mail or vote Conservative.
I wouldn't worry too much about Richard N's views.....he can be quite ridiculously pompous.....like now......
By the way Apocalypse keep going....I love it when you wind up the usual brigade......
Everyone needs to be challenged.
Don't suggest rerunning the referendum though, that'd set everybody off
LOL. You really can't deal with criticism of your POV can you?
Believe it or not, he even apologizes to people sometimes. Not here, I expect.
The A50 judgement tomorrow should be enough for a minor conflagration, especially if the Govt loses..
Is it sad that part of me wants to pull an all nighter to find out what the outcome is? Unfortunately the timezone difference is even worse, 7 hours rather than 8 as our clocks go back this week rather than last week.
If you sincerely believe that the BAME community is pro-gay, unified in their welcoming acceptance of alternative religion and wholly endorse eastern european immigration then you are, putting it kindly, misguided.
As someone who is a part of the BAME community, I think I know a bit about what people within it think. I've talked politics with people from various walks of life, certainly not just those 22 and under. I've also talked about homophobia within the Black community (and other ethnic minority communities) on this site too. Although, given that most ethnic minorities voted IN, I doubt they take as much umbrage with EU immigration as the rest of the population.
I think you'd be surprised at the large numbers of ethnic minority voters who opted for LEAVE.
It was quite a sizeable amount. It wasn't, however the majority which the point I was making.
No they do not. But as a member of the Brexit non-right (Political compass tells me I should be voting for Plaid Cymru, but I really think I'm more right than that, to be honest), the Brexit right monopolizing the Brexit debate is a real bugbear for me - all political discussion comes down to shouting the loudest and convincing people your way is the only way, and they are better at that than the Brexit non-right.
But take heart - Theresa May is currently riding high and managing both the right and centre right, and that cannot last. The ructions on the right if she commits one way or the other definitively will be immense - you should see the bitterness and cries of traitor between Tory supporters when that happens.
Huh? You, @Sean_F (judging by his response) seem to think Brexit means that the electorate subscribes to the enterity of your views. I actually know people who voted for Brexit and let's just say they don't share PB's 'views'.
PBce.
They are a united force when it comes to talking about terrible Muslims, feminists, Jamaicans, and dismissing racism/sexism as 'playing a card' and 'PC Brigade'. Let's face it: they are a united force when it comes to sneering at demographics which they know are unlikely to vote Conservative/UKIP, and so clearly their concerns and lives don't matter.
On this one you are incorrect. As I said, some Lab and LD posters voted Leave too (PClipp for one). I very much doubt they sneer at anyone who does not vote Tory or UKIP (I've never voted for either, and I voted Leave too). I believe something like a third of LDs voted leave?
I think it's a sign of the centre of gravity on this site that liberals and (very) moderate labourites are described as lefties. Back in the day it was folk like Dennis and Corbyn that were lefties.
Left and right are not adequate terms for describing complex political views. As all know, UKIP takes on many lefty policy ideas, while still being right wing, and individuals much more complicated and idiosyncratic. Republican Tories, Leaver Lib Dems, the odd configurations are endless.
I was thinking of the Brexit Right, which predominates on this site. I know left-wingers who voted Brexit, they don't see the world the way PBers do.
Just scanning down this thread, I don't think more than around 25-35% of posts are from posters I could place in the 'Brexit right' category - and given the referendum result that's surely not too far from what you might expect. I certainly wouldn't say that the 'Brexit right' predominates.
People like you don't get to decide how the BAME community see themselves.
The BAME community does not really exist.
There are lots of people who are BAME. They are not a community. In my experience people will self segregate around race and religion - even after all the white people are removed.
I think it's more socially liberal that you are. You seem to be infused with prejudice against millions of decent people, who read the Mail or vote Conservative.
I wouldn't worry too much about Richard N's views.....he can be quite ridiculously pompous.....like now......
By the way Apocalypse keep going....I love it when you wind up the usual brigade......
Thank you tynson. PBers can't get everything their own way all the time....;)
RE all those who responded to me on the 'socially liberal' post: dismissing concerns about sexism and racism, and going on about the 'PC Brigade and the 'liberal elite' is not the sign of people who are socially liberal. People who are socially liberal don't actually see the word 'liberal' as an insult. And secondly, they you know, care about racism and sexism.
And thirdly, they hate prejudice. Including prejudice against the millions of readers of the Daily Mail. Right? Or is your definition of 'liberal' quite spectacularly narrow-minded?
@SeanT I real life I don't hear people getting upset over Jamaican culture, Black History month, and belittle people's concerns as 'playing the race card'. Most people just see others as people, and go about their business.
I would sulife, that they find it less extreme, can be stated definitively to be true either, though I hope so.
I'm sure there are racists out there, but they aren't the majority in this country. When referring to my real experiences, I was referring to another group of people that I know and talk politics with. I don't have a site to compare this to, because I only really go this site in regard to political discussion these days.
You earlier said
"This is the only site I go on where people try to normalise their bizarre views on ethnic minorities and their cultures."
How can you say that this site is unusual in that regard if it's the only one you visit that talks about politics which (I would argue) naturally leads to discussion of such issues?
Site as in generally (I visit plently of non-political sites).
OK. Fuck off then?
You can leave with your sneering opinions of us intact; for me, you will have fucked off like the tedious bleating liberal coward you are, so we all win. The solution is: you just fuck off.
Deal?
How is it ok to post stuff like this?
Coz this person just told us we were all evil racists.
"Fuck off" is pretty mild in response.
You're hounding people off the site.
It's a strategy you've used time and time again.
Look, just LEAVE if you don't like it. Just go. Because this is my strategy, and everyone understands it. I simply hound people off the site. I drive them away, And if you don't like it, you know where the EXIT door is.
If everyone had followed your instructions, there would only be you and Tyson's dog left on here. Some debating forum that would be.
FFS, I'm JOKING,
Me saying LEAVE THE SITE is hardly a good reason to leave the site, is it? Unless you are the snowflakiest snowflake in the Museum of Fragile Snowflakes.
Especially when I'm clearly joshing, or just being a bit punchy after a blanket accusation of racism against all of PB.
MEH! And PAH!
I too was joking.
You have told Tyson's dog to fuck off on several occasions.
What ARE you talking about. This is just about the only site where you can come, and announce yourself as Corbynite, BNP voter, feminazi, Thatcherite, Holocaust denier (within reason) Scot Nat, Cornish nationalist, terrible drunk, millionaire gay lawyer, quasi-Marxist, Nick Palmer ex MP, mad cat owner, Tory, shady businessman, insane train geek, and even ageing bald europhile Lib Dem, and you will be given a hearing, and a good discussion, until and unless you say something TRULY outrageous. Or you go on about Scottish subsamples.
This is the most tolerant and generous of blogs. All can come and all can rant. And they really really do. I defy you to find a saner blog with a wider ranger of commenters.
Spot on, Mr. T. This site is really like the public bar in a decent pub full of all sorts of people and, at its best, several different conversations going on at the same time. This evening for example we have had the usual USA election chatter interspersed with economic data, the merits of Northern Ireland and, earlier, recipes for Christmas puddings, plus some offbeat views on what constitutes Lutheranism. Alas for once we have had nothing on engineering, cricket or trains.
Goes off to consider which of SeanT's categories I fit into. Terrible drunk? Not really. Mad cat owner? Possibly I suppose but really none of them fit terribly well. Could we not have a new category of a mild-mannered, sort of elderly person who is a bit to the right on some issues and a bit to the left on others who likes cats (and dogs) and a drink, is a bit of an English nationalist but colour blind and who is jolly keen on engineering, quite likes watching cricket, cooking/eating well and playing computer games.
Ultimately HL we are all in a minority of one :-).
I write as a member of the metropolitan elite, despite living a quiet life in a suburb of an obscure English provincial city, supporting a party that will probably not see power during my remaining lifetime.
PB needs its off topic conversations in order to build the bonds that keep tbe political disputes mostly civil.
Trump's chances of winning are up to 32.3% tonight, that an increase of approx 3% in the last few hours. Plus 538's State by State map is showing Florida with its highly important 29 ECVs as being red, well light pink actually, for the first time.
@SeanT I real life I don't hear people getting upset over Jamaican culture, Black History month, and belittle people's concerns as 'playing the race card'. Most people just see others as people, and go about their business.
I would sulife, that they find it less extreme, can be stated definitively to be true either, though I hope so.
I'm sure there are racists out there, but they aren't the majority in this country. When referring to my real experiences, I was referring to another group of people that I know and talk politics with. I don't have a site to compare this to, because I only really go this site in regard to political discussion these days.
You earlier said
"This is the only site I go on where people try to normalise their bizarre views on ethnic minorities and their cultures."
How can you say that this site is unusual in that regard if it's the only one you visit that talks about politics which (I would argue) naturally leads to discussion of such issues?
Site as in generally (I visit plently of non-political sites).
OK. Fuck off then?
You can leave with your sneering opinions of us intact; for me, you will have fucked off like the tedious bleating liberal coward you are, so we all win. The solution is: you just fuck off.
Deal?
How is it ok to post stuff like this?
Coz this person just told us we were all evil racists.
"Fuck off" is pretty mild in response.
You're hounding people off the site.
It's a strategy you've used time and time again.
Look, just LEAVE if you don't like it. Just go. Because this is my strategy, and everyone understands it. I simply hound people off the site. I drive them away, And if you don't like it, you know where the EXIT door is.
I think it's more socially liberal that you are. You seem to be infused with prejudice against millions of decent people, who read the Mail or vote Conservative.
I wouldn't worry too much about Richard N's views.....he can be quite ridiculously pompous.....like now......
By the way Apocalypse keep going....I love it when you wind up the usual brigade......
Everyone needs to be challenged.
Don't suggest rerunning the referendum though, that'd set everybody off
LOL. You really can't deal with criticism of your POV can you?
Believe it or not, he even apologizes to people sometimes. Not here, I expect.
The A50 judgement tomorrow should be enough for a minor conflagration, especially if the Govt loses..
Is it sad that part of me wants to pull an all nighter to find out what the outcome is? Unfortunately the timezone difference is even worse, 7 hours rather than 8 as our clocks go back this week rather than last week.
I'm at a funeral and memorial service tomorrow, from 1045 so will find out just beforehand then miss all the subsequent action.
Weirdest poll yet today. If that is right - meet President Trump.
And OGH is a brave chap to be on the spreads on this election.
I honestly feel like I'm talking to myself. The denial that this will happen is astonishing. As an embedded reporter - it's bloody obviously possible.
Seven other up to date and even more recent polls in Virginia have Clinton leading by 4 to 12 points , your faith in the freak odd one out is weird .
It is often said by the hard right on here "it will be hilarious if Trump wins because the Guardianistas etc".
The reverse is of course true. Plato, Moniker and the rest of the white nationalist rampers will never be able to show their face again if Trump loses.
The way a betting site has been turned into hard right ramping and poll cherry picking ground is sad. I can only assume that none of these people ever bet.
1000% right. The way people see, and comment on those who aren't white and male at times as this weirdly different 'other', is pretty sad as well.
What ARE you talking about. This is just about the only site where you can come, and announce yourself as Corbynite, BNP voter, feminazi, Thatcherite, Holocaust denier (within reason) Scot Nat, Cornish nationalist, terrible drunk, millionaire gay lawyer, quasi-Marxist, Nick Palmer ex MP, mad cat owner, Tory, shady businessman, insane train geek, and even ageing bald europhile Lib Dem, and you will be given a hearing, and a good discussion, until and unless you say something TRULY outrageous. Or you go on about Scottish subsamples.
This is the most tolerant and generous of blogs. All can come and all can rant. And they really really do. I defy you to find a saner blog with a wider ranger of commenters.
Insane train geek? Are you calling moi an insane train geek?
Huh? You, @Sean_F (judging by his response) seem to think Brexit means that the electorate subscribes to the enterity of your views. I actually know people who voted for Brexit and let's just say they don't share PB's 'views'.
@Sean_F Stop thinking everyone who votes Conservative has PB views. Floating voters, are not the same as people who are right-wing for most of their lives. Disgruntled voters who see UKIP as their 'up yours' option, aren't the same as people on this site either.
@Mortimer You and other right-leaning Conservatives 'claim', this site is reasonable. Perhaps it used to be. Now, it's not.
I think the most common viewpoint here is economically right wing, socially liberal, pro-Brexit.
I think public opinion is generally more hardline on social issues than it is here, but more left wing on economics.
I don't think the political centre on here is too far from the political centre of the nation, on the basis of current polls. And there are plenty of lefties here too - Southam, Jonathan, Foxinsox, NPXMP, Tyson, Sandy Rentool, Roger, and so on. I agree though that the libertarian right is probably more represented here than in real life
I think it's a sign of the centre of gravity on this site that liberals and (very) moderate labourites are described as lefties. Back in the day it was folk like Dennis and Corbyn that were lefties.
I think all the people listed above are Labour voters, and voted Labour in 2015 (apologies if I'm misrepresenting anyone). On the basis that only around 30% of voters did so, this would put them some way to the left of centre. If I was to include Liberals, I could add Stodge, Yellow Submarine and of course Mike Smithson.
I think you'll find Dr Fox is a liberal, as am I although I'm probably on the left of the party. I'm not sure Stodge is a liberal democrat these days.
Apologies Dr. Fox - I may have confused you with Big John Owls.
Tut tut tut, muddling up the good Doctor with a hospital administrator (retd). Wars have been fought over less.
People like you don't get to decide how the BAME community see themselves.
The BAME community does not really exist.
There are lots of people who are BAME. They are not a community. In my experience people will self segregate around race and religion - even after all the white people are removed.
I think it's more socially liberal that you are. You seem to be infused with prejudice against millions of decent people, who read the Mail or vote Conservative.
I wouldn't worry too much about Richard N's views.....he can be quite ridiculously pompous.....like now......
By the way Apocalypse keep going....I love it when you wind up the usual brigade......
Everyone needs to be challenged.
Don't suggest rerunning the referendum though, that'd set everybody off
LOL. You really can't deal with criticism of your POV can you?
Believe it or not, he even apologizes to people sometimes. Not here, I expect.
The A50 judgement tomorrow should be enough for a minor conflagration, especially if the Govt loses..
Is it sad that part of me wants to pull an all nighter to find out what the outcome is? Unfortunately the timezone difference is even worse, 7 hours rather than 8 as our clocks go back this week rather than last week.
I'm at a funeral and memorial service tomorrow, from 1045 so will find out just beforehand then miss all the subsequent action.
I think it's more socially liberal that you are. You seem to be infused with prejudice against millions of decent people, who read the Mail or vote Conservative.
I wouldn't worry too much about Richard N's views.....he can be quite ridiculously pompous.....like now......
By the way Apocalypse keep going....I love it when you wind up the usual brigade......
Thank you tynson. PBers can't get everything their own way all the time....;)
RE all those who responded to me on the 'socially liberal' post: dismissing concerns about sexism and racism, and going on about the 'PC Brigade and the 'liberal elite' is not the sign of people who are socially liberal. People who are socially liberal don't actually see the word 'liberal' as an insult. And secondly, they you know, care about racism and sexism.
And thirdly, they hate prejudice. Including prejudice against the millions of readers of the Daily Mail. Right? Or is your definition of 'liberal' quite spectacularly narrow-minded?
I don't actually hate all DM readers. My grandad is one, and I don't hate him, even if I don't like his choice in newspaper. I made the point about DM readers to illustrate the hypocrisy on this site.
Huh? You, @Sean_F (judging by his response) seem to think Brexit means that the electorate subscribes to the enterity of your views. I actually know people who voted for Brexit and let's just say they don't share PB's 'views'.
PBce.
They are a united force when it comes to talking about terrible Muslims, feminists, Jamaicans, and dismissing racism/sexism as 'playing a card' and 'PC Brigade'. Let's face it: they are a united force when it comes to sneering at demographics which they know are unlikely to vote Conservative/UKIP, and so clearly their concerns and lives don't matter.
On this one you are incorrect. As I said, some Lab and LD posters voted Leave too (PClipp for one). I very much doubt they sneer at anyone who does not vote Tory or UKIP (I've never voted for either, and I voted Leave too). I believe something like a third of LDs voted leave?
The political centre here is definitely much more right than centre or left, but Brexit is not an issue on which one can utilise in the Tory/UKIP vs others fight, even if there are those who would like to, for and against. It may seem like that sometimes, but in fact some of the most vicious stuff has been blue on blue commentary, not surprising as there are more of them.
As I believe you are trying to say, just because people say they are the majority view does not mean they are. As a corollary to that, just because you say people are of a unified view does not mean they are.
I think it's a sign of the centre of gravity on this site that liberals and (very) moderate labourites are described as lefties. Back in the day it was folk like Dennis and Corbyn that were lefties.
Left and right are not adequate terms for describing complex political views. As all know, UKIP takes on many lefty policy ideas, while still being right wing, and individuals much more complicated and idiosyncratic. Republican Tories, Leaver Lib Dems, the odd configurations are endless.
I was thinking of the Brexit Right, which predominates on this site. I know left-wingers who voted Brexit, they don't see the world the way PBers do.
There are lots of weird Labour Leavers on here - sinister left-nationalists. Believe me, you'd much rather have a night out with SeanT. I would anyway.
It's sort of worse as a quote, I mean we know there's a social media team doing this stuff, but they presumably thought that was a good bit rather than drivel.
Trump's chances of winning are up to 32.3% tonight, that an increase of approx 3% in the last few hours. Plus 538's State by State map is showing Florida with its highly important 29 ECVs as being red, well light pink actually, for the first time.
The Trump train inches towards its destination. Will it make it? Find out Nov 8th!
I think it's more socially liberal that you are. You seem to be infused with prejudice against millions of decent people, who read the Mail or vote Conservative.
I wouldn't worry too much about Richard N's views.....he can be quite ridiculously pompous.....like now......
By the way Apocalypse keep going....I love it when you wind up the usual brigade......
Everyone needs to be challenged.
Don't suggest rerunning the referendum though, that'd set everybody off
LOL. You really can't deal with criticism of your POV can you?
Believe it or not, he even apologizes to people sometimes. Not here, I expect.
The A50 judgement tomorrow should be enough for a minor conflagration, especially if the Govt loses..
Oh sh*t, I'm definitely off again then. As a prime candidate for Bremorse (were I not so vocal about going with leave, I've no doubt if it is a disaster I would claim in time that of course I voted remain) perhaps that explains my lack of concern should the court say A50 has to be triggered by the commons as a whole - it seems appropriate for something so momentous, even if people want parliament to not do it after all politically that hardly seems viable for Tories or Labour, etc etc - but I can smell the bitterness already should the government lose.
I think it's more socially liberal that you are. You seem to be infused with prejudice against millions of decent people, who read the Mail or vote Conservative.
I wouldn't worry too much about Richard N's views.....he can be quite ridiculously pompous.....like now......
By the way Apocalypse keep going....I love it when you wind up the usual brigade......
Everyone needs to be challenged.
Don't suggest rerunning the referendum though, that'd set everybody off
LOL. You really can't deal with criticism of your POV can you?
Believe it or not, he even apologizes to people sometimes. Not here, I expect.
The A50 judgement tomorrow should be enough for a minor conflagration, especially if the Govt loses..
Oh sh*t, I'm definitely off again then. As a prime candidate for Bremorse (were I not so vocal about going with leave, I've no doubt if it is a disaster I would claim in time that of course I voted remain) perhaps that explains my lack of concern should the court say A50 has to be triggered by the commons as a whole - it seems appropriate for something so momentous, even if people want parliament to not do it after all politically that hardly seems viable for Tories or Labour, etc etc - but I can smell the bitterness already should the government lose.
The decision tomorrow is basically inconsequential. It will be appealed to the Supreme Court (what a terrible American name).
Trump's chances of winning are up to 32.3% tonight, that an increase of approx 3% in the last few hours. Plus 538's State by State map is showing Florida with its highly important 29 ECVs as being red, well light pink actually, for the first time.
The Trump train inches towards its destination. Will it make it? Find out Nov 8th!
People like you don't get to decide how the BAME community see themselves.
The BAME community does not really exist.
There are lots of people who are BAME. They are not a community. In my experience people will self segregate around race and religion - even after all the white people are removed.
It really gets up my nose when people try to put people into pigeon holes and pretend that because some share one characteristic (e.g. skin colour) they must all think alike. The whole idea that there is a BAME community is a corrosive nonsense that needs to be driven out of polite discourse.
People are people, individuals, different from to another and should be treated as such.
Huh? You, @Sean_F (judging by his response) seem to think Brexit means that the electorate subscribes to the enterity of your views. I actually know people who voted for Brexit and let's just say they don't share PB's 'views'.
PBce.
They are a united force when it comes to talking about terrible Muslims, feminists, Jamaicans, and dismissing racism/sexism as 'playing a card' and 'PC Brigade'. Let's face it: they are a united force when it comes to sneering at demographics which they know are unlikely to vote Conservative/UKIP, and so clearly their concerns and lives don't matter.
On this one you are incorrect. As I said, some Lab and LD posters voted Leave too (PClipp for one). I very much doubt they sneer at anyone who does not vote Tory or UKIP (I've never voted for either, and I voted Leave too). I believe something like a third of LDs voted leave?
The political centre here is definitely much more right than centre or left, but Brexit is not an issue on which one can utilise in the Tory/UKIP vs others fight, even if there are those who would like to, for and against. It may seem like that sometimes, but in fact some of the most vicious stuff has been blue on blue commentary, not surprising as there are more of them.
As I believe you are trying to say, just because people say they are the majority view does not mean they are. As a corollary to that, just because you say people are of a unified view does not mean they are.
I think it's a sign of the centre of gravity on this site that liberals and (very) moderate labourites are described as lefties. Back in the day it was folk like Dennis and Corbyn that were lefties.
Left and right are not adequate terms for describing complex political views. As all know, UKIP takes on many lefty policy ideas, while still being right wing, and individuals much more complicated and idiosyncratic. Republican Tories, Leaver Lib Dems, the odd configurations are endless.
I was thinking of the Brexit Right, which predominates on this site. I know left-wingers who voted Brexit, they don't see the world the way PBers do.
There are lots of weird Labour Leavers on here - sinister left-nationalists. Believe me, you'd much rather have a night out with SeanT. I would anyway.
A night out with a 40+ right-wing man?
There are some under 30 people on this site (kl4, Morris Dancer I think?) I think they'd be good for a night out.
@SeanT I real life I don't hear people getting upset over Jamaican culture, Black History month, and belittle people's concerns as 'playing the race card'. Most people just see others as people, and go about their business.
I would sulife, that they find it less extreme, can be stated definitively to be true either, though I hope so.
I'm sure there are racists out there, but they aren't the majority in this country. When referring to my real experiences, I was referring to another group of people that I know and talk politics with. I don't have a site to compare this to, because I only really go this site in regard to political discussion these days.
You earlier said
"This is the only site I go on where people try to normalise their bizarre views on ethnic minorities and their cultures."
How can you say that this site is unusual in that regard if it's the only one you visit that talks about politics which (I would argue) naturally leads to discussion of such issues?
Site as in generally (I visit plently of non-political sites).
OK. Fuck off then?
You can leave with your sneering opinions of us intact; for me, you will have fucked off like the tedious bleating liberal coward you are, so we all win. The solution is: you just fuck off.
Deal?
How is it ok to post stuff like this?
Coz this person just told us we were all evil racists.
"Fuck off" is pretty mild in response.
You're hounding people off the site.
It's a strategy you've used time and time again.
Look, just LEAVE if you don't like it. Just go. Because this is my strategy, and everyone understands it. I simply hound people off the site. I drive them away, And if you don't like it, you know where the EXIT door is.
OK. I'm gone.
PB's loss.
Pong - please don't leave ...... you're one of the best betting brains on the site. At least re-consider after sleeping on it.
People like you don't get to decide how the BAME community see themselves.
The BAME community does not really exist.
There are lots of people who are BAME. They are not a community. In my experience people will self segregate around race and religion - even after all the white people are removed.
What ARE you talking about. This is just about the only site where you can come, and announce yourself as Corbynite, BNP voter, feminazi, Thatcherite, Holocaust denier (within reason) Scot Nat, Cornish nationalist, terrible drunk, millionaire gay lawyer, quasi-Marxist, Nick Palmer ex MP, mad cat owner, Tory, shady businessman, insane train geek, and even ageing bald europhile Lib Dem, and you will be given a hearing, and a good discussion, until and unless you say something TRULY outrageous. Or you go on about Scottish subsamples.
This is the most tolerant and generous of blogs. All can come and all can rant. And they really really do. I defy you to find a saner blog with a wider ranger of commenters.
Spot on, Mr. T. This site is really like the public bar in a decent pub full of all sorts of people and, at its best, several different conversations going on at the same time. This evening for example we have had the usual USA election chatter interspersed with economic data, the merits of Northern Ireland and, earlier, recipes for Christmas puddings, plus some offbeat views on what constitutes Lutheranism. Alas for once we have had nothing on engineering, cricket or trains.
Goes off to consider which of SeanT's categories I fit into. Terrible drunk? Not really. Mad cat owner? Possibly I suppose but really none of them fit terribly well. Could we not have a new category of a mild-mannered, sort of elderly person who is a bit to the right on some issues and a bit to the left on others who likes cats (and dogs) and a drink, is a bit of an English nationalist but colour blind and who is jolly keen on engineering, quite likes watching cricket, cooking/eating well and playing computer games.
Ultimately HL we are all in a minority of one :-).
I write as a member of the metropolitan elite, despite living a quiet life in a suburb of an obscure English provincial city, supporting a party that will probably not see power during my remaining lifetime.
PB needs its off topic conversations in order to build the bonds that keep tbe political disputes mostly civil.
I was thinking that today during the conversation about Christmas Dinner. It all got a bit tetchy here over the referendum because there was so much politics we were all so personally invested in, and the forum went off-topic much less. All a function of the rather odd year we're having, and it does us no harm to be reminded that most on here are genuinely nice people behind the political disagreements.
What ARE you talking about. This is just about the only site where you can come, and announce yourself as Corbynite, BNP voter, feminazi, Thatcherite, Holocaust denier (within reason) Scot Nat, Cornish nationalist, terrible drunk, millionaire gay lawyer, quasi-Marxist, Nick Palmer ex MP, mad cat owner, Tory, shady businessman, insane train geek, and even ageing bald europhile Lib Dem, and you will be given a hearing, and a good discussion, until and unless you say something TRULY outrageous. Or you go on about Scottish subsamples.
This is the most tolerant and generous of blogs. All can come and all can rant. And they really really do. I defy you to find a saner blog with a wider ranger of commenters.
Spot on, Mr. T. This site is really like the public bar in a decent pub full of all sorts of people and, at its best, several different conversations going on at the same time. This evening for example we have had the usual USA election chatter interspersed with economic data, the merits of Northern Ireland and, earlier, recipes for Christmas puddings, plus some offbeat views on what constitutes Lutheranism. Alas for once we have had nothing on engineering, cricket or trains.
Goes off to consider which of SeanT's categories I fit into. Terrible drunk? Not really. Mad cat owner? Possibly I suppose but really none of them fit terribly well. Could we not have a new category of a mild-mannered, sort of elderly person who is a bit to the right on some issues and a bit to the left on others who likes cats (and dogs) and a drink, is a bit of an English nationalist but colour blind and who is jolly keen on engineering, quite likes watching cricket, cooking/eating well and playing computer games.
I write as a member of the metropolitan elite, despite living a quiet life in a suburb of an obscure English provincial city, supporting a party that will probably not see power during my remaining lifetime.
Elite is a state of mind, doc. Like being a political outsider. Remember Jeb Bush, the outsider? All about one's attitude.
I struggle though. I voted Leave, which is populist. But I don't care about immigration at all, which is elitist. I think I might be a elitism wannabe.
People like you don't get to decide how the BAME community see themselves.
The BAME community does not really exist.
There are lots of people who are BAME. They are not a community. In my experience people will self segregate around race and religion - even after all the white people are removed.
Presumably from the same script as 'there is no such thing as society'.
I see you quoted it out of context:
"They're casting their problem on society. And, you know, there is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first. It's our duty to look after ourselves and then, also to look after our neighbour. People have got the entitlements too much in mind, without the obligations, because there is no such thing as an entitlement unless someone has first met an obligation" - M. H. Thatcher, interview 23 September 1987
People like you don't get to decide how the BAME community see themselves.
The BAME community does not really exist.
There are lots of people who are BAME. They are not a community. In my experience people will self segregate around race and religion - even after all the white people are removed.
Also, Pong please stay on this site. SeanT telling people to 'fuck off' is just SeanT being SeanT. That's probably polite by his standards, if anything.
People like you don't get to decide how the BAME community see themselves.
The BAME community does not really exist.
There are lots of people who are BAME. They are not a community. In my experience people will self segregate around race and religion - even after all the white people are removed.
It really gets up my nose when people try to put people into pigeon holes and pretend that because some share one characteristic (e.g. skin colour) they must all think alike. The whole idea that there is a BAME community is a corrosive nonsense that needs to be driven out of polite discourse.
People are people, individuals, different from to another and should be treated as such.
Let us not forget Ed Miliband asking a Sikh man whether he will be ensuring the Sikh vote turns out for Labour. I really do not understand how people think like that. Assigning a label and category to everyone.
People like you don't get to decide how the BAME community see themselves.
The BAME community does not really exist.
There are lots of people who are BAME. They are not a community. In my experience people will self segregate around race and religion - even after all the white people are removed.
People like you don't get to decide how the BAME community see themselves.
The BAME community does not really exist.
There are lots of people who are BAME. They are not a community. In my experience people will self segregate around race and religion - even after all the white people are removed.
Huh? You, @Sean_F (judging by his response) seem to think Brexit means that the electorate subscribes to the enterity of your views. I actually know people who voted for Brexit and let's just say they don't share PB's 'views'.
PBce.
They are a united force when it comes to talking about terrible Muslims, feminists, Jamaicans, and dismissing racism/sexism as 'playing a card' and 'PC Brigade'. Let's face it: they are a united force when it comes to sneering at demographics which they know are unlikely to vote Conservative/UKIP, and so clearly their concerns and lives don't matter.
On th
As I believe you are trying to say, just because people say they are the majority view does not mean they are. As a corollary to that, just because you say people are of a unified view does not mean they are.
I think it's a sign of the centre of gravity on this site that liberals and (very) moderate labourites are described as lefties. Back in the day it was folk like Dennis and Corbyn that were lefties.
Left and right are not adequate terms for describing complex political views. As all know, UKIP takes on many lefty policy ideas, while still being right wing, and individuals much more complicated and idiosyncratic. Republican Tories, Leaver Lib Dems, the odd configurations are endless.
I was thinking of the Brexit Right, which predominates on this site. I know left-wingers who voted Brexit, they don't see the world the way PBers do.
There are lots of weird Labour Leavers on here - sinister left-nationalists. Believe me, you'd much rather have a night out with SeanT. I would anyway.
A night out with a 40+ right-wing man?
There are some under 30 people on this site (kl4, Morris Dancer I think?) I think they'd be good for a night out.
Were it not already apparent from how I spend a lot of my online time, I regret to say I am a right boring sod on a night out. Maybe I should start drinking.
Sadly I'm also only under 30 for another month, that'll harm PBs demographic stats.
People like you don't get to decide how the BAME community see themselves.
The BAME community does not really exist.
There are lots of people who are BAME. They are not a community. In my experience people will self segregate around race and religion - even after all the white people are removed.
Presumably from the same script as 'there is no such thing as society'.
I see you quoted it out of context:
"They're casting their problem on society. And, you know, there is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first. It's our duty to look after ourselves and then, also to look after our neighbour. People have got the entitlements too much in mind, without the obligations, because there is no such thing as an entitlement unless someone has first met an obligation" - M. H. Thatcher, interview 23 September 1987
Huh?
She basically said there is no such thing as society, only individuals.
I think it's more socially liberal that you are. You seem to be infused with prejudice against millions of decent people, who read the Mail or vote Conservative.
I wouldn't worry too much about Richard N's views.....he can be quite ridiculously pompous.....like now......
By the way Apocalypse keep going....I love it when you wind up the usual brigade......
Everyone needs to be challenged.
Don't suggest rerunning the referendum though, that'd set everybody off
LOL. You really can't deal with criticism of your POV can you?
Believe it or not, he even apologizes to people sometimes. Not here, I expect.
The A50 judgement tomorrow should be enough for a minor conflagration, especially if the Govt loses..
Is it sad that part of me wants to pull an all nighter to find out what the outcome is? Unfortunately the timezone difference is even worse, 7 hours rather than 8 as our clocks go back this week rather than last week.
First time I realised you were US based Rob.
By the way, loved the AV gag about Hillary's emails - couldn't find your post again to praise.
Huh? You, @Sean_F (judging by his response) seem to think Brexit means that the electorate subscribes to the enterity of your views. I actually know people who voted for Brexit and let's just say they don't share PB's 'views'.
PBce.
They are a united force when it comes to talking about terrible Muslims, feminists, Jamaicans, and dismissing racism/sexism as 'playing a card' and 'PC Brigade'. Let's face it: they are a united force when it comes to sneering at demographics which they know are unlikely to vote Conservative/UKIP, and so clearly their concerns and lives don't matter.
On th
As I believe you are trying to say, just because people say they are the majority view does not mean they are. As a corollary to that, just because you say people are of a unified view does not mean they are.
I think it's a sign of the centre of gravity on this site that liberals and (very) moderate labourites are described as lefties. Back in the day it was folk like Dennis and Corbyn that were lefties.
Left and right are not adequate terms for describing complex political views. As all know, UKIP takes on many lefty policy ideas, while still being right wing, and individuals much more complicated and idiosyncratic. Republican Tories, Leaver Lib Dems, the odd configurations are endless.
I was thinking of the Brexit Right, which predominates on this site. I know left-wingers who voted Brexit, they don't see the world the way PBers do.
There are lots of weird Labour Leavers on here - sinister left-nationalists. Believe me, you'd much rather have a night out with SeanT. I would anyway.
A night out with a 40+ right-wing man?
There are some under 30 people on this site (kl4, Morris Dancer I think?) I think they'd be good for a night out.
Were it not already apparent from how I spend a lot of my online time, I regret to say I am a right boring sod on a night out. Maybe I should start drinking.
Sadly I'm also only under 30 for another month, that'll harm PBs demographic stats.
Night all.
I gave up my under-30 club membership badge a few months ago.. sad days.
Trump's chances of winning are up to 32.3% tonight, that an increase of approx 3% in the last few hours. Plus 538's State by State map is showing Florida with its highly important 29 ECVs as being red, well light pink actually, for the first time.
The Trump train inches towards its destination. Will it make it? Find out Nov 8th!
Should you find out on Nov 8th, please would you let me know ..... I'll make it worth your while!
People like you don't get to decide how the BAME community see themselves.
The BAME community does not really exist.
There are lots of people who are BAME. They are not a community. In my experience people will self segregate around race and religion - even after all the white people are removed.
Whilst many posters are not particularly extreme there are maybe ten or so quite regular ones from the far right, I've not noticed but there may be the odd one from the anti-semite far left too. It took ages for an open neo-nazi to be banned, so it's a rare place where you can come into contact with these people for an extended period of time. It's useful to see what they think and at least on the internet you don't have to pretend you have anything but utter contempt for them.
I think it's more socially liberal that you are. You seem to be infused with prejudice against millions of decent people, who read the Mail or vote Conservative.
I wouldn't worry too much about Richard N's views.....he can be quite ridiculously pompous.....like now......
By the way Apocalypse keep going....I love it when you wind up the usual brigade......
Everyone needs to be challenged.
Don't suggest rerunning the referendum though, that'd set everybody off
LOL. You really can't deal with criticism of your POV can you?
Believe it or not, he even apologizes to people sometimes. Not here, I expect.
The A50 judgement tomorrow should be enough for a minor conflagration, especially if the Govt loses..
Oh sh*t, I'm definitely off again then. As a prime candidate for Bremorse (were I not so vocal about going with leave, I've no doubt if it is a disaster I would claim in time that of course I voted remain) perhaps that explains my lack of concern should the court say A50 has to be triggered by the commons as a whole - it seems appropriate for something so momentous, even if people want parliament to not do it after all politically that hardly seems viable for Tories or Labour, etc etc - but I can smell the bitterness already should the government lose.
The decision tomorrow is basically inconsequential. It will be appealed to the Supreme Court (what a terrible American name).
Someone will link a 19th century act proposing to set up a supreme court now I imagine, though personally i split the difference and in my head still call them Law Lords, rather than Supreme COurt Justices, as it sounds cooler.
People like you don't get to decide how the BAME community see themselves.
The BAME community does not really exist.
There are lots of people who are BAME. They are not a community. In my experience people will self segregate around race and religion - even after all the white people are removed.
Trump's chances of winning are up to 32.3% tonight, that an increase of approx 3% in the last few hours. Plus 538's State by State map is showing Florida with its highly important 29 ECVs as being red, well light pink actually, for the first time.
The Trump train inches towards its destination. Will it make it? Find out Nov 8th!
Should you find out on Nov 8th, please would you let me know ..... I'll make it worth your while!
Trump's chances of winning are up to 32.3% tonight, that an increase of approx 3% in the last few hours.
Hmm. I suspect there has been some kind of glitch, as the most recent update of a single poll appears to have produced almost half that increase. It's difficult to see why it should have produced any change at all, as it is a small-sample-size poll (rated B-) for Missouri showing a Trump lead that's absolutely in line with other recent polls for that state.
In contrast, the previous update, which included five national polls by Ipsos (rated A-) with a total sample size of about 6,500 and an average Clinton lead of more than 6%, reduced Trump's chances by just 0.2%!.
Huh? You, @Sean_F (judging by his response) seem to think Brexit means that the electorate subscribes to the enterity of your views. I actually know people who voted for Brexit and let's just say they don't share PB's 'views'.
PBce.
They are a united force when it comes to talking about terrible Muslims, feminists, Jamaicans, and dismissing racism/sexism as 'playing a card' and 'PC Brigade'. Let's face it: they are a united force when it comes to sneering at demographics which they know are unlikely to vote Conservative/UKIP, and so clearly their concerns and lives don't matter.
On this one you are incorrect. As I said, some Lab and LD posters voted Leave too (PClipp for one). I very much doubt they sneer at anyone who does not vote Tory or UKIP (I've never voted for either, and I voted Leave too). I believe something like a third of LDs voted leave?
The political centre he vs others fight, even if there are those who would like to, for and against. It may seem like that sometimes, but in fact some of the most vicious stuff has been blue on blue commentary, not surprising as there are more of them.
As I believe you are trying to say, just because people say they are the majority view does not mean they are. As a corollary to that, just because you say people are of a unified view does not mean they are.
I think it's a sign of the centre of gravity on this site that liberals and (very) moderate labourites are described as lefties. Back in the day it was folk like Dennis and Corbyn that were lefties.
Left and right are not adequate terms for describing complex political views. As all know, UKIP takes on many lefty policy ideas, while still being right wing, and individuals much more complicated and idiosyncratic. Republican Tories, Leaver Lib Dems, the odd configurations are endless.
I was thinking of the Brexit Right, which predominates on this site. I know left-wingers who voted Brexit, they don't see the world the way PBers do.
There are lots of weird Labour Leavers on here - sinister left-nationalists. Believe me, you'd much rather have a night out with SeanT. I would anyway.
A night out with a 40+ right-wing man?
There are some under 30 people on this site (kl4, Morris Dancer I think?) I think they'd be good for a night out.
There are some under 30 people on this site (kl4, Morris Dancer I think?) I think they'd be good for a night out.
Morris is the life of the party
He's always come across as a nice guy on this site. I've never heard him be outright critical of whole groups of people either. Although I can't say I'm really an F1 fan. Now that whole sport bores me....
What ARE you talking about. This is just about the only site where you can come, and announce yourself as Corbynite, BNP voter, feminazi, Thatcherite, Holocaust denier (within reason) Scot Nat, Cornish nationalist, terrible drunk, millionaire gay lawyer, quasi-Marxist, Nick Palmer ex MP, mad cat owner, Tory, shady businessman, insane train geek, and even ageing bald europhile Lib Dem, and you will be given a hearing, and a good discussion, until and unless you say something TRULY outrageous. Or you go on about Scottish subsamples.
This is the most tolerant and generous of blogs. All can come and all can rant. And they really really do. I defy you to find a saner blog with a wider ranger of commenters.
Spot on, Mr. T. This site is really like the public bar in a decent pub full of all sorts of people and, at its best, several different conversations going on at the same time. This evening for example we have had the usual USA election chatter interspersed with economic data, the merits of Northern Ireland and, earlier, recipes for Christmas puddings, plus some offbeat views on what constitutes Lutheranism. Alas for once we have had nothing on engineering, cricket or trains.
Goes off to consider which of SeanT's categories I fit into. Terrible drunk? Not really. Mad cat owner? Possibly I suppose but really none of them fit terribly well. Could we not have a new category of a mild-mannered, sort of elderly person who is a bit to the right on some issues and a bit to the left on others who likes cats (and dogs) and a drink, is a bit of an English nationalist but colour blind and who is jolly keen on engineering, quite likes watching cricket, cooking/eating well and playing computer games.
Ultimately HL we are all in a minority of one :-).
I write as a member of the metropolitan elite, despite living a quiet life in a suburb of an obscure English provincial city, supporting a party that will probably not see power during my remaining lifetime.
PB needs its off topic conversations in order to build the bonds that keep tbe political disputes mostly civil.
Quite so, Dr Sox. I have to say I have never thought of you as a member of the metropolitan elite, though.
There are some under 30 people on this site (kl4, Morris Dancer I think?) I think they'd be good for a night out.
Morris is the life of the party
He's always come across as a nice guy on this site. I've never heard him be outright critical of whole groups of people either. Although I can't say I'm really an F1 fan. Now that whole sport bores me....
Don't forget to compliment him on his trebuchet....
People like you don't get to decide how the BAME community see themselves.
The BAME community does not really exist.
There are lots of people who are BAME. They are not a community. In my experience people will self segregate around race and religion - even after all the white people are removed.
Presumably from the same script as 'there is no such thing as society'.
I see you quoted it out of context:
"They're casting their problem on society. And, you know, there is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first. It's our duty to look after ourselves and then, also to look after our neighbour. People have got the entitlements too much in mind, without the obligations, because there is no such thing as an entitlement unless someone has first met an obligation" - M. H. Thatcher, interview 23 September 1987
Huh?
She basically said there is no such thing as society, only individuals.
People like you don't get to decide how the BAME community see themselves.
The BAME community does not really exist.
There are lots of people who are BAME. They are not a community. In my experience people will self segregate around race and religion - even after all the white people are removed.
What ARE you talking about. This is just about the only site where you can come, and announce yourself as Corbynite, BNP voter, feminazi, Thatcherite, Holocaust denier (within reason) Scot Nat, Cornish nationalist, terrible drunk, millionaire gay lawyer, quasi-Marxist, Nick Palmer ex MP, mad cat owner, Tory, shady businessman, insane train geek, and even ageing bald europhile Lib Dem, and you will be given a hearing, and a good discussion, until and unless you say something TRULY outrageous. Or you go on about Scottish subsamples.
This is the most tolerant and generous of blogs. All can come and all can rant. And they really really do. I defy you to find a saner blog with a wider ranger of commenters.
Spot on, Mr. T. This site is really like the public bar in a decent pub full of all sorts of people and, at its best, several different conversations going on at the same time. This evening for example we have had the usual USA election chatter interspersed with economic data, the merits of Northern Ireland and, earlier, recipes for Christmas puddings, plus some offbeat views on what constitutes Lutheranism. Alas for once we have had nothing on engineering, cricket or trains.
Goes off to consider which of SeanT's categories I fit into. Terrible drunk? Not really. Mad cat owner? Possibly I suppose but really none of them fit terribly well. Could we not have a new category of a mild-mannered, sort of elderly person who is a bit to the right on some issues and a bit to the left on others who likes cats (and dogs) and a drink, is a bit of an English nationalist but colour blind and who is jolly keen on engineering, quite likes watching cricket, cooking/eating well and playing computer games.
Ultimately HL we are all in a minority of one :-).
I write as a member of the metropolitan elite, despite living a quiet life in a suburb of an obscure English provincial city, supporting a party that will probably not see power during my remaining lifetime.
PB needs its off topic conversations in order to build the bonds that keep tbe political disputes mostly civil.
Quite so, Dr Sox. I have to say I have never thought of you as a member of the metropolitan elite, though.
There are some under 30 people on this site (kl4, Morris Dancer I think?) I think they'd be good for a night out.
Morris is the life of the party
He's always come across as a nice guy on this site. I've never heard him be outright critical of whole groups of people either. Although I can't say I'm really an F1 fan. Now that whole sport bores me....
Don't forget to compliment him on his trebuchet....
I had to google that - 'trebuchet'. Not surprised an F1 fan has an engine.
There are some under 30 people on this site (kl4, Morris Dancer I think?) I think they'd be good for a night out.
Morris is the life of the party
He's always come across as a nice guy on this site. I've never heard him be outright critical of whole groups of people either. Although I can't say I'm really an F1 fan. Now that whole sport bores me....
Don't forget to compliment him on his trebuchet....
I had to google that - 'trebuchet'. Not surprised an F1 fan has an engine.
Don't mention you had to google the word trebuchet. That would end the evening.
She basically said there is no such thing as society, only individuals.
It is so tedious when people misrepresent what she said. She was talking about the tendency to blame 'society', pointing out that there's no such thing as 'society' in the abstract; society is the collective construct of all of us, and it is everyone's collective responsibility to - for example - deal with prejudice or crime.
You really ought to read the whole piece with a fresh mind. If you are incapable of that, how about focussing on this bit of the quoted passage: it's our duty to look after ourselves and then, also to look after our neighbour.?
Trump's chances of winning are up to 32.3% tonight, that an increase of approx 3% in the last few hours. Plus 538's State by State map is showing Florida with its highly important 29 ECVs as being red, well light pink actually, for the first time.
The Trump train inches towards its destination. Will it make it? Find out Nov 8th!
Probably because I have been blitzed by Plato every other minute for the last three days, I now instinctively expect Trumpton to win. But your post earlier was sound: how the devil does he get to 270? NV and CO look bad for him, which leaves him with PA or a very unlikely Midwest route. PA has not returned a Republican for time. I'm happy enough with my position - I win big on Trump and decently on the narrow Hillary victory. I lose on HC 300+. I hope this latest rumpus will shift the odds, and I can then cover HC 300+ if she does a Cameron 2015.
Trump's chances of winning are up to 32.3% tonight, that an increase of approx 3% in the last few hours. Plus 538's State by State map is showing Florida with its highly important 29 ECVs as being red, well light pink actually, for the first time.
The Trump train inches towards its destination. Will it make it? Find out Nov 8th!
Probably because I have been blitzed by Plato every other minute for the last three days, I now instinctively expect Trumpton to win. But your post earlier was sound: how the devil does he get to 270? NV and CO look bad for him, which leaves him with PA or a very unlikely Midwest route. PA has not returned a Republican for time. I'm happy enough with my position - I win big on Trump and decently on the narrow Hillary victory. I lose on HC 300+. I hope this latest rumpus will shift the odds, and I can then cover HC 300+ if she does a Cameron 2015.
My 260 included a Trump NV, and he'd have to win FL, OH, IA, NC too. He needs one other state but nothing looks promising for him at the moment.
Also, Pong please stay on this site. SeanT telling people to 'fuck off' is just SeanT being SeanT. That's probably polite by his standards, if anything.
Also, my telling Pong to fuck off the site was a sardonic reference to my personal inability to drive anyone off the site, unless they actually want to leave. Only Mike bans or blocks (and he has yellow carded me on occasions, for a time, when I've been OTT).
The ONLY person I might have "hounded off the site" is tim, but that's after he was exceptionally nasty for quite a while to several posters, and then he made personal remarks about my real life, so I responded in kind, given that his bogus and then real identity had already been exposed by others.
And quite frankly I'd like to see tim back on the site. He was an asset. His waspish wit is missed, on the PB Left.
Ooh, what was Tim's real identity? He wasn't a farmer from Cheshire then? All seemed rather unlikely.
What ARE you talking about. This is just about the only site where you can come, and announce yourself as Corbynite, BNP voter, feminazi, Thatcherite, Holocaust denier (within reason) Scot Nat, Cornish nationalist, terrible drunk, millionaire gay lawyer, quasi-Marxist, Nick Palmer ex MP, mad cat owner, Tory, shady businessman, insane train geek, and even ageing bald europhile Lib Dem, and you will be given a hearing, and a good discussion, until and unless you say something TRULY outrageous. Or you go on about Scottish subsamples.
This is the most tolerant and generous of blogs. All can come and all can rant. And they really really do. I defy you to find a saner blog with a wider ranger of commenters.
Spot on, Mr. T. This site is really like the public bar in a decent pub full of all sorts of people and, at its best, several different conversations going on at the same time. This evening for example we have had the usual USA election chatter interspersed with economic data, the merits of Northern Ireland and, earlier, recipes for Christmas puddings, plus some offbeat views on what constitutes Lutheranism. Alas for once we have had nothing on engineering, cricket or trains.
Goes off to consider which of SeanT's categories I fit into. Terrible drunk? Not really. Mad cat owner? Possibly I suppose but really none of them fit terribly well. Could we not have a new category of a mild-mannered, games.
Ultimately HL we are all in a minority of one :-).
I write as a member of the metropolitan elite, despite living a quiet life in a suburb of an obscure English provincial city, supporting a party that will probably not see power during my remaining lifetime.
PB needs its off topic conversations in order to build the bonds that keep tbe political disputes mostly civil.
Quite so, Dr Sox. I have to say I have never thought of you as a member of the metropolitan elite, though.
I meant it ironically, as I have been called that a number of times, not least for pointing out that the WWC is more diverse in its views on political and social issues than some on here would allow.
The other thing that keeps this place more civil than most internet sites is the betting. I have made some of my bigger profits here betting against my own favoured outcomes, and indeed will be in profit if Trump wins as that is where the value has been.
I do wonder if some value is returning to Clinton, and am tempted to go fossicking for it tommorow.
"Tonight I’ve bought Clinton ECVs at 302 because I think that the polling and markets have over reacted to Friday’s FBI move."
I think it is worth reflecting that Clinton's estimated vote percentage (538, polls only) has dropped by precisely 1% since the FBI intervention, to 48.6%. We are five days on from that now, and Nate Silver reckoned the model would be showing the full effect after 5-7 days. I doubt the FBI will succeed in delivering much more than that 1% to the Trump cause.
Before the FBI intervention, Clinton's rating had dropped by just 0.2% from its peak of 49.8% at around the time of the third debate. The narrowing of the race during that period was almost entirely due to a 1% increase in Trump's rating, which coincided with a 1% decrease in Gary Johnson's. Probably in retrospect that shouldn't have been unexpected, but with Johnson now down to a little more than half his peak, I wonder whether there is much more there for Trump to squeeze.
Clinton's lead, according to 538, now stands at 3.5%. I wonder if it's likely to drop much below that by polling day. If it doesn't, we are back to Trump needing a large systematic error in the polls (albeit one only half as big as he would have needed at the height of Clinton's dominance).
People like you don't get to decide how the BAME community see themselves.
The BAME community does not really exist.
There are lots of people who are BAME. They are not a community. In my experience people will self segregate around race and religion - even after all the white people are removed.
Presumably from the same script as 'there is no such thing as society'.
I see you quoted it out of context:
"They're casting their problem on society. And, you know, there is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first. It's our duty to look after ourselves and then, also to look after our neighbour. People have got the entitlements too much in mind, without the obligations, because there is no such thing as an entitlement unless someone has first met an obligation" - M. H. Thatcher, interview 23 September 1987
Tim? He's the guy who hates Osborne (more so than everyone else on this site who hates Osborne) right? Yeah, I've heard posters mention he was bullying some of the female posters on here, like Plato.
Trump's chances of winning are up to 32.3% tonight, that an increase of approx 3% in the last few hours. Plus 538's State by State map is showing Florida with its highly important 29 ECVs as being red, well light pink actually, for the first time.
The Trump train inches towards its destination. Will it make it? Find out Nov 8th!
Probably because I have been blitzed by Plato every other minute for the last three days, I now instinctively expect Trumpton to win. But your post earlier was sound: how the devil does he get to 270? NV and CO look bad for him, which leaves him with PA or a very unlikely Midwest route. PA has not returned a Republican for time. I'm happy enough with my position - I win big on Trump and decently on the narrow Hillary victory. I lose on HC 300+. I hope this latest rumpus will shift the odds, and I can then cover HC 300+ if she does a Cameron 2015.
My 260 included a Trump NV, and he'd have to win FL, OH, IA, NC too. He needs one other state but nothing looks promising for him at the moment.
People like you don't get to decide how the BAME community see themselves.
The BAME community does not really exist.
There are lots of people who are BAME. They are not a community. In my experience people will self segregate around race and religion - even after all the white people are removed.
Presumably from the same script as 'there is no such thing as society'.
I see you quoted it out of context:
"They're casting their problem on society. And, you know, there is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first. It's our duty to look after ourselves and then, also to look after our neighbour. People have got the entitlements too much in mind, without the obligations, because there is no such thing as an entitlement unless someone has first met an obligation" - M. H. Thatcher, interview 23 September 1987
Well done Sunil, people thinking they have made a clever point with that famous quote is one of my bugbears. I used to think Thatcher had said something awful, but when I read the full article I realised that Thatcher hadn't meant what her foes would like us to think she meant, and she was making a philosophical point that I actually agreed with. I suspect most people would agree with it if they ever got to read the full interview.
What ARE you talking about. This is just about the only site where you can come, and announce yourself as Corbynite, BNP voter, feminazi, Thatcherite, Holocaust denier (within reason) Scot Nat, Cornish nationalist, terrible drunk, millionaire gay lawyer, quasi-Marxist, Nick Palmer ex MP, mad cat owner, Tory, shady businessman, insane train geek, and even ageing bald europhile Lib Dem, and you will be given a hearing, and a good discussion, until and unless you say something TRULY outrageous. Or you go on about Scottish subsamples.
This is the most tolerant and generous of blogs. All can come and all can rant. And they really really do. I defy you to find a saner blog with a wider ranger of commenters.
Spot on, Mr. T. This site is really like the public bar in a decent pub full of all sorts of people and, at its best, several different conversations going on at the same time. This evening for example we have had the usual USA election chatter interspersed with economic data, the merits of Northern Ireland and, earlier, recipes for Christmas puddings, plus some offbeat views on what constitutes Lutheranism. Alas for once we have had nothing on engineering, cricket or trains.
Goes off to consider which of SeanT's categories I fit into. Terrible drunk? Not really. Mad cat owner? Possibly I suppose but really none of them fit terribly well. Could we not have a new category of a mild-mannered, sort of elderly person who is a bit to the right on some issues and a bit to the left on others who likes cats (and dogs) and a drink, is a bit of an English nationalist but colour blind and who is jolly keen on engineering, quite likes watching cricket, cooking/eating well and playing computer games.
Ultimately HL we are all in a minority of one :-).
I write as a member of the metropolitan elite, despite living a quiet life in a suburb of an obscure English provincial city, supporting a party that will probably not see power during my remaining lifetime.
PB needs its off topic conversations in order to build the bonds that keep tbe political disputes mostly civil.
Quite so, Dr Sox. I have to say I have never thought of you as a member of the metropolitan elite, though.
Bakerloo elite? Piccadilly elite?
Thank you, Dr. Prasannan. That really made me laugh.
Maybe in the circumstances District Elite might be the most appropriate.
By the way, how does it feel to be referenced by SeanT as an "Insane train Geek"?
Also, Pong please stay on this site. SeanT telling people to 'fuck off' is just SeanT being SeanT. That's probably polite by his standards, if anything.
Also, my telling Pong to fuck off the site was a sardonic reference to my personal inability to drive anyone off the site, unless they actually want to leave. Only Mike bans or blocks (and he has yellow carded me on occasions, for a time, when I've been OTT).
The ONLY person I might have "hounded off the site" is tim, but that's after he was exceptionally nasty for quite a while to several posters, and then he made personal remarks about my real life, so I responded in kind, given that his bogus and then real identity had already been exposed by others.
And quite frankly I'd like to see tim back on the site. He was an asset. His waspish wit is missed, on the PB Left.
Ooh, what was Tim's real identity? He wasn't a farmer from Cheshire then? All seemed rather unlikely.
lol. He was a quasi-retired wine merchant married to a Jewish Liverpudlian doctor. Now lives abroad, but provides amusing, acidic commentary on UK Labour politics on Twitter
I see betting as maybe an activity that attracts libertarian types. Although my assessment is that Lib-Demy kind of people are better at it. They've got that sense of detachment and fatalism (necessary for betting and for being a Lib Dem).
lol. He was a quasi-retired wine merchant married to a Jewish Liverpudlian doctor. Now lives abroad, but provides amusing, acidic commentary on UK Labour politics on Twitter
I think it's fair to say that he's not entirely enthused by the Corbyn and McDonnell takeover of the Labour Party.
"Tonight I’ve bought Clinton ECVs at 302 because I think that the polling and markets have over reacted to Friday’s FBI move."
I think it is worth reflecting that Clinton's estimated vote percentage (538, polls only) has dropped by precisely 1% since the FBI intervention, to 48.6%. We are five days on from that now, and Nate Silver reckoned the model would be showing the full effect after 5-7 days. I doubt the FBI will succeed in delivering much more than that 1% to the Trump cause.
Before the FBI intervention, Clinton's rating had dropped by just 0.2% from its peak of 49.8% at around the time of the third debate. The narrowing of the race during that period was almost entirely due to a 1% increase in Trump's rating, which coincided with a 1% decrease in Gary Johnson's. Probably in retrospect that shouldn't have been unexpected, but with Johnson now down to a little more than half his peak, I wonder whether there is much more there for Trump to squeeze.
Clinton's lead, according to 538, now stands at 3.5%. I wonder if it's likely to drop much below that by polling day. If it doesn't, we are back to Trump needing a large systematic error in the polls (albeit one only half as big as he would have needed at the height of Clinton's dominance).
Also, Pong please stay on this site. SeanT telling people to 'fuck off' is just SeanT being SeanT. That's probably polite by his standards, if anything.
Also, my telling Pong to fuck off the site was a sardonic reference to my personal inability to drive anyone off the site, unless they actually want to leave. Only Mike bans or blocks (and he has yellow carded me on occasions, for a time, when I've been OTT).
The ONLY person I might have "hounded off the site" is tim, but that's after he was exceptionally nasty for quite a while to several posters, and then he made personal remarks about my real life, so I responded in kind, given that his bogus and then real identity had already been exposed by others.
And quite frankly I'd like to see tim back on the site. He was an asset. His waspish wit is missed, on the PB Left.
Ooh, what was Tim's real identity? He wasn't a farmer from Cheshire then? All seemed rather unlikely.
lol. He was a quasi-retired wine merchant married to a Jewish Liverpudlian doctor. Now lives abroad, but provides amusing, acidic commentary on UK Labour politics on Twitter
Ha - well that explains how he had so much time to post. Though I often marvel at how much time many on here with apparently busy and presumably time-consuming jobs find time to post so much.
lol. He was a quasi-retired wine merchant married to a Jewish Liverpudlian doctor. Now lives abroad, but provides amusing, acidic commentary on UK Labour politics on Twitter
I think it's fair to say that he's not entirely enthused by the Corbyn and McDonnell takeover of the Labour Party.
Not exactly a shock, given he is Tony Blair's biggest fan and spent years before infecting PB fighting with the Socialist Worker types on other internet forums and talk radio.
@SeanT I real life I don't hear people getting upset over Jamaican culture, Black History month, and belittle people's concerns as 'playing the race card'. Most people just see others as people, and go about their business.
I would sulife, that they find it less extreme, can be stated definitively to be true either, though I hope so.
I'm sure there are racists out there, but they aren't the majority in this country. When referring to my real experiences, I was referring to another group of people that I know and talk politics with. I don't have a site to compare this to, because I only really go this site in regard to political discussion these days.
You earlier said
"This is the only site I go on where people try to normalise their bizarre views on ethnic minorities and their cultures." snips?
Site as in generally (I visit plently of non-political sites).
OK liberal coward you are, so we all win. The solution is: you just fuck off.
Deal?
How is it ok to post stuff like this?
Coz this person just told us we were all evil racists.
"Fuck off" is pretty mild in response.
You're hounding people off the site.
It's a strategy you've used time and time again.
snip here the EXIT door is.
If everyone had followed your instructions, there would only be you and Tyson's dog left on here. Some debating forum that would be.
FFS, I'm JOKING,
Me saying LEAVE THE SITE is hardly a good reason to leave the site, is it? Unless you are the snowflakiest snowflake in the Museum of Fragile Snowflakes.
Especially when I'm clearly joshing, or just being a bit punchy after a blanket accusation of racism against all of PB.
MEH! And PAH!
I too was joking.
You have told Tyson's dog to fuck off on several occasions.
Well, he is called Trotsky.
We are short of revolutionary communists on the site - note how they didn't make your otherwise comprehensive list, up-thread. A poor decision to dismiss the canine.
Trump's chances of winning are up to 32.3% tonight, that an increase of approx 3% in the last few hours. Plus 538's State by State map is showing Florida with its highly important 29 ECVs as being red, well light pink actually, for the first time.
The Trump train inches towards its destination. Will it make it? Find out Nov 8th!
Probably because I have been blitzed by Plato every other minute for the last three days, I now instinctively expect Trumpton to win. But your post earlier was sound: how the devil does he get to 270? NV and CO look bad for him, which leaves him with PA or a very unlikely Midwest route. PA has not returned a Republican for time. I'm happy enough with my position - I win big on Trump and decently on the narrow Hillary victory. I lose on HC 300+. I hope this latest rumpus will shift the odds, and I can then cover HC 300+ if she does a Cameron 2015.
My 260 included a Trump NV, and he'd have to win FL, OH, IA, NC too. He needs one other state but nothing looks promising for him at the moment.
People like you don't get to decide how the BAME community see themselves.
The BAME community does not really exist.
There are lots of people who are BAME. They are not a community. In my experience people will self segregate around race and religion - even after all the white people are removed.
It really gets up my nose when people try to put people into pigeon holes and pretend that because some share one characteristic (e.g. skin colour) they must all think alike. The whole idea that there is a BAME community is a corrosive nonsense that needs to be driven out of polite discourse.
People are people, individuals, different from to another and should be treated as such.
From the same reactionary tools who think "Britishness" can be bottled and used to ward off Europeans and/or Muslims, that's pretty fucking funny.
Also, Pong please stay on this site. SeanT telling people to 'fuck off' is just SeanT being SeanT. That's probably polite by his standards, if anything.
Also, my telling Pong to fuck off the site was a sardonic reference to my personal inability to drive anyone off the site, unless they actually want to leave. Only Mike bans or blocks (and he has yellow carded me on occasions, for a time, when I've been OTT).
The ONLY person I might have "hounded off the site" is tim, but that's after he was exceptionally nasty for quite a while to several posters, and then he made personal remarks about my real life, so I responded in kind, given that his bogus and then real identity had already been exposed by others.
And quite frankly I'd like to see tim back on the site. He was an asset. His waspish wit is missed, on the PB Left.
Ooh, what was Tim's real identity? He wasn't a farmer from Cheshire then? All seemed rather unlikely.
lol. He was a quasi-retired wine merchant married to a Jewish Liverpudlian doctor. Now lives abroad, but provides amusing, acidic commentary on UK Labour politics on Twitter
Ha - well that explains how he had so much time to post. Though I often marvel at how much time many on here with apparently busy and presumably time-consuming jobs find time to post so much.
Which bit of the farmy farm story was believable? I mean there are just so many Asian gentleman farmers in the North West of England.
What ARE you talking about. This is just about the only site where you can come, and announce yourself as Corbynite, BNP voter, feminazi, Thatcherite, Holocaust denier (within reason) Scot Nat, Cornish nationalist, terrible drunk, millionaire gay lawyer, quasi-Marxist, Nick Palmer ex MP, mad cat owner, Tory, shady businessman, insane train geek, and even ageing bald europhile Lib Dem, and you will be given a hearing, and a good discussion, until and unless you say something TRULY outrageous. Or you go on about Scottish subsamples.
This is the most tolerant and generous of blogs. All can come and all can rant. And they really really do. I defy you to find a saner blog with a wider ranger of commenters.
Spot on, Mr. T. This site is really like the public bar in a decent pub full of all sorts of people and, at its best, several different conversations going on at the same time. This evening for example we have had the usual USA election chatter interspersed with economic data, the merits of Northern Ireland and, earlier, recipes for Christmas puddings, plus some offbeat views on what constitutes Lutheranism. Alas for once we have had nothing on engineering, cricket or trains.
Goes off to consider which of SeanT's categories I fit into. Terrible drunk? Not really. Mad cat owner? Possibly I suppose but really none of them fit terribly well. Could we not have a new category of a mild-mannered, sort of elderly person who is a bit to the right on some issues and a bit to the left on others who likes cats (and dogs) and a drink, is a bit of an English nationalist but colour blind and who is jolly keen on engineering, quite likes watching cricket, cooking/eating well and playing computer games.
Ultimately HL we are all in a minority of one :-).
I write as a member of the metropolitan elite, despite living a quiet life in a suburb of an obscure English provincial city, supporting a party that will probably not see power during my remaining lifetime.
PB needs its off topic conversations in order to build the bonds that keep tbe political disputes mostly civil.
Quite so, Dr Sox. I have to say I have never thought of you as a member of the metropolitan elite, though.
Bakerloo elite? Piccadilly elite?
Thank you, Dr. Prasannan. That really made me laugh.
Maybe in the circumstances District Elite might be the most appropriate.
By the way, how does it feel to be referenced by SeanT as an "Insane train Geek"?
Oi! Train geeks are in the majority here, though obviously Sunil holds the yellow jersey.
lol. He was a quasi-retired wine merchant married to a Jewish Liverpudlian doctor. Now lives abroad, but provides amusing, acidic commentary on UK Labour politics on Twitter
I think it's fair to say that he's not entirely enthused by the Corbyn and McDonnell takeover of the Labour Party.
Not exactly a shock, given he is Tony Blair's biggest fan and spent years before infecting PB fighting with the Socialist Worker types on other internet forums and talk radio.
Tony Blair's biggest fan was surely Adrian Harper.
Comments
Don't suggest rerunning the referendum though, that'd set everybody off Believe it or not, he even apologizes to people sometimes. Not here, I expect.
RE all those who responded to me on the 'socially liberal' post: dismissing concerns about sexism and racism, and going on about the 'PC Brigade and the 'liberal elite' is not the sign of people who are socially liberal. People who are socially liberal don't actually see the word 'liberal' as an insult. And secondly, they you know, care about racism and sexism.
There are lots of people who are BAME. They are not a community. In my experience people will self segregate around race and religion - even after all the white people are removed.
Asian, Black, Muslim, Sikh, Hindu. Caribbean, African. etc etc
But take heart - Theresa May is currently riding high and managing both the right and centre right, and that cannot last. The ructions on the right if she commits one way or the other definitively will be immense - you should see the bitterness and cries of traitor between Tory supporters when that happens.
You have told Tyson's dog to fuck off on several occasions.
I write as a member of the metropolitan elite, despite living a quiet life in a suburb of an obscure English provincial city, supporting a party that will probably not see power during my remaining lifetime.
PB needs its off topic conversations in order to build the bonds that keep tbe political disputes mostly civil.
Plus 538's State by State map is showing Florida with its highly important 29 ECVs as being red, well light pink actually, for the first time.
Not Islington, mind.
It implies that she's just reporting something that someone (herself) said, rather than implying she actually means it.
People are people, individuals, different from to another and should be treated as such.
There are some under 30 people on this site (kl4, Morris Dancer I think?) I think they'd be good for a night out.
I struggle though. I voted Leave, which is populist. But I don't care about immigration at all, which is elitist. I think I might be a elitism wannabe.
"They're casting their problem on society. And, you know, there is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first. It's our duty to look after ourselves and then, also to look after our neighbour. People have got the entitlements too much in mind, without the obligations, because there is no such thing as an entitlement unless someone has first met an obligation"
- M. H. Thatcher, interview 23 September 1987
Sadly I'm also only under 30 for another month, that'll harm PBs demographic stats.
Night all.
She basically said there is no such thing as society, only individuals.
By the way, loved the AV gag about Hillary's emails - couldn't find your post again to praise.
In contrast, the previous update, which included five national polls by Ipsos (rated A-) with a total sample size of about 6,500 and an average Clinton lead of more than 6%, reduced Trump's chances by just 0.2%!.
*depressed face*
I'm surprised this isn't reported more often. "John Doe, a registered democrat/republican, was convicted of murder today".
Seriously....
You really ought to read the whole piece with a fresh mind. If you are incapable of that, how about focussing on this bit of the quoted passage: it's our duty to look after ourselves and then, also to look after our neighbour.?
http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/?ex_cid=rrpromo#plus
The other thing that keeps this place more civil than most internet sites is the betting. I have made some of my bigger profits here betting against my own favoured outcomes, and indeed will be in profit if Trump wins as that is where the value has been.
I do wonder if some value is returning to Clinton, and am tempted to go fossicking for it tommorow.
Tim? He's the guy who hates Osborne (more so than everyone else on this site who hates Osborne) right? Yeah, I've heard posters mention he was bullying some of the female posters on here, like Plato.
Maybe in the circumstances District Elite might be the most appropriate.
By the way, how does it feel to be referenced by SeanT as an "Insane train Geek"?
That is what 33% chance means.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_clinton_vs_johnson_vs_stein-5952.html
Though I often marvel at how much time many on here with apparently busy and presumably time-consuming jobs find time to post so much.
http://www.economist.com/news/europe/21709508-fran-ois-hollandes-popularity-falls-4-frances-president-self-destructs