FPT - interesting discussion. The UK will likely hit majority minority status too, on current trends, by around about 2065-2085 as well.
Personally, I don't think multiracialism is a problem, and people will accept it.
But they won't accept multiculturalism and, if the two are linked, we have a problem.
We DEFINITELY have a problem if Islam has not Enlightened by then. And I doubt it ever will in the foreseeable.
No liberal western democracy can accept a Muslim population over 10-15%, as by that point the aggressive nature of Islam changes the host society in ways fundamentally contrary to liberal democracy.
Several European nations are already in the 5-10% bracket. So curbs on immigration by faith and culture are not far away. The voters will ensure they happen, by voting for far right parties, if necessary, who will terrify the mainstream parties into quick response.
Look how the mere threat of UKIP has led to Brexit.
I'm not sure they will terrify the mainstream parties into a quick response.
It's just as likely they retreat further into their shell aka Juncker, and Merkel.
And, after that, what happens?
Who knows?
France is surprisingly close to a Le pen Presidency. Austria nearly elected a quasi-Fascist as president.
They might choose to retreat into their shells but then that would choosing electoral suicide. Far more likely is that, in the end, democratic parties will adapt to the righty mood.
France really isn't, you know.
In three weeks time, Alain Juppe will come first in the first round of the Les Republicains primary. He will go on to become the LR candidate, will beat Marine Le Pen 38% to 28% in the first round, and 70% to 30% in the second.
That's not "surprisingly close".
Juppe is uncharismatic, unlike Chirac when he beat Jean Marie Le Pen and the epitome of the establishment, Le Pen will run a populist, fiercely patriotic campaign. Juppe will be strong favourite but that can be as much a hindrance than a strength and like Hillary he also has made some rather shady decisions in the past
Weirdest poll yet today. If that is right - meet President Trump.
And OGH is a brave chap to be on the spreads on this election.
I honestly feel like I'm talking to myself. The denial that this will happen is astonishing. As an embedded reporter - it's bloody obviously possible.
Seven other up to date and even more recent polls in Virginia have Clinton leading by 4 to 12 points , your faith in the freak odd one out is weird .
It is often said by the hard right on here "it will be hilarious if Trump wins because the Guardianistas etc".
The reverse is of course true. Plato, Moniker and the rest of the white nationalist rampers will never be able to show their face again if Trump loses.
The way a betting site has been turned into hard right ramping and poll cherry picking ground is sad. I can only assume that none of these people ever bet.
Winding up guardianistas is always fun, unless one agrees with them.
I don't like the Guardian... I find it patronising, didactic, and morally superior. It preaches to the converted....mainly Corbynites who live in little bubbles where they only talk to each other. I struggle with reading the opinion writers, though I know, I would probably write something similar if I had to.
I use pbCOM because I like to have some kind of dialectic with people of opposite views, like you comrade......
However, if he does it will cause the dollar to fall in value. This might cancel out some of Sterling's fall since the Brexit vote. The shock of a Trump win may also mean that the oil price falls due to the perceived damage Trumps economic and trade policies would do to the global economy. It could be argued that for the UK it could be a good thing for Trump to become POTUS economically whilst Brexit goes on.
I saw the comments mocking Obama's comments on the threat of a Trump presidency and was amused. But the truth is the only winners to Trump being elected are China and Russia. I know David Cameron's WW3 threat was mocked in relation to the EU but even that you could argue could be true if the EU fell apart and Russia decided to get into the old soviet habit of invading countries that it perceived to be weak. I am no defender of David Cameron, he got a real good kick up the arse and his reputation is much worse than many of the preceeding holders of that high office.
Given Trump wants a trade war with China I don't think they are exactly winners from a Trump presidency, Russia and Brexit UK maybe
Yeah he's gonna have a trade war with the country that owns their debt. I don't how normally smart people have been utterly fooled by this liar.
Feminists, BLM activists, and anyone who is more leftwing that SouthamObserver are treated as more insane and deluded than a Holocaust denier who is referred to positively, on this site if anything. People are more tolerant of Donald Trump, a man who admits to sexual assault than any self-declared socialist. There is an increasing consensus that common sense views = right wing views. People complain about Sun Readers and Trump voters being sneered at, but that's exactly what people do to do minorities when they even dare to talk about racism.
This is the only site I go on where people try to normalise their bizarre views on ethnic minorities and their cultures. I real life I don't hear people getting upset over Jamaican culture, Black History month, and belittle people's concerns as 'playing the race card'. Most people just see others as people, and go about their business. They don't see ethnic minorities as some weird 'other', that are still under integration surveillance.
Osborne killing it at the Speccy awards apparently
@MichaelLCrick: Not just best speech George Osborne has ever made, but one of best I've ever heard
Has he resigned his seat ?
Apparently he did a cracking impression of Donald Trump sitting on the khazi.
[I may have made that up. As an aside, I think khazi is in my top 5 favourite words, along with 'crepuscular', 'glutton' and two others I'll have to think about.]
FPT - interesting discussion. The UK will likely hit majority minority status too, on current trends, by around about 2065-2085 as well.
Personally, I don't think multiracialism is a problem, and people will accept it.
But they won't accept multiculturalism and, if the two are linked, we have a problem.
It seems to me that the vast majority of people are accepting of immigrants, provided that they make an effort to fit in. That means, primarily, learning the language and not ghettoising (as we see in parts of London and, I learn from that Guardian article today, Blackburn. And hence no doubt elsewhere too.)
If multiculturalism is a euphemism for immigrants not having to fit in, it's doomed.
Weirdest poll yet today. If that is right - meet President Trump.
And OGH is a brave chap to be on the spreads on this election.
I honestly feel like I'm talking to myself. The denial that this will happen is astonishing. As an embedded reporter - it's bloody obviously possible.
Seven other up to date and even more recent polls in Virginia have Clinton leading by 4 to 12 points , your faith in the freak odd one out is weird .
It is often said by the hard right on here "it will be hilarious if Trump wins because the Guardianistas etc".
The reverse is of course true. Plato, Moniker and the rest of the white nationalist rampers will never be able to show their face again if Trump loses.
The way a betting site has been turned into hard right ramping and poll cherry picking ground is sad. I can only assume that none of these people ever bet.
Winding up guardianistas is always fun, unless one agrees with them.
Guardianistas seems to have become a catch-all term for anyone to the left of Enoch Powell.
However, if he does it will cause the dollar to fall in value. This might cancel out some of Sterling's fall since the Brexit vote. The shock of a Trump win may also mean that the oil price falls due to the perceived damage Trumps economic and trade policies would do to the global economy. It could be argued that for the UK it could be a good thing for Trump to become POTUS economically whilst Brexit goes on.
I saw the comments mocking Obama's comments on the threat of a Trump presidency and was amused. But the truth is the only winners to Trump being elected are China and Russia. I know David Cameron's WW3 threat was mocked in relation to the EU but even that you could argue could be true if the EU fell apart and Russia decided to get into the old soviet habit of invading countries that it perceived to be weak. I am no defender of David Cameron, he got a real good kick up the arse and his reputation is much worse than many of the preceeding holders of that high office.
Given Trump wants a trade war with China I don't think they are exactly winners from a Trump presidency, Russia and Brexit UK maybe
I think China might challenge US dominance in that chain of artificially created islands in the south China sea if Trump is POTUS. They might try and test Trump as he is not a foreign affairs candidate, his focus is domestic as much as it about anything. I agree on the trade war but then again China can make much bigger changes to its economy than a western one due to the lack of democracy. So the US might suffer more as they have more to lose. I think the trade war that Trump threatens is also undermined by the $3 trillion of US debt the Chinese have acquired.
The more I look at Trump on serious issues the more worried I become. He is like a blank sheet of paper but for his populist rhetoric about building walls, getting rid of babies and getting great trade deals.
If Trump were to win and post Brexit who knows, especially given a few more terror attacks in France. Le Pen has nothing to lose given most commentators have written her off, the French establishment everything to lose. It is the French working and lower middle-class she needs for a small majority, like Brexit and Trump she can win without most if the elite
While my current view is that she can't win, I do think the experience of last time could work in her favour as many people might be tempted to vote for her just to make sure the result isn't a complete wipe out.
The dynamics will be very different than the Chirac-Le Pen election which was a fluke caused by Lionel Jospin's ineptness which made it easy to deny dignifying Le Pen with the usual coverage a second round Presidential candidate would get. This time everyone is expecting Marine to be in the run off, and her opponent will not be able to avoid taking part in the traditional set pieces.
Weirdest poll yet today. If that is right - meet President Trump.
And OGH is a brave chap to be on the spreads on this election.
I honestly feel like I'm talking to myself. The denial that this will happen is astonishing. As an embedded reporter - it's bloody obviously possible.
Seven other up to date and even more recent polls in Virginia have Clinton leading by 4 to 12 points , your faith in the freak odd one out is weird .
It is often said by the hard right on here "it will be hilarious if Trump wins because the Guardianistas etc".
The reverse is of course true. Plato, Moniker and the rest of the white nationalist rampers will never be able to show their face again if Trump loses.
The way a betting site has been turned into hard right ramping and poll cherry picking ground is sad. I can only assume that none of these people ever bet.
Winding up guardianistas is always fun, unless one agrees with them.
Guardianistas seems to have become a catch-all term for anyone to the left of Enoch Powell.
Agreed again. If anyone says they don't like Daily Mail readers on this site, they're 'sneering'.
The more I look at Trump on serious issues the more worried I become. He is like a blank sheet of paper but for his populist rhetoric about building walls, getting rid of babies and getting great trade deals.
I don't think that's really true. He's an old-school American nationalist of the pre-Wilson variety.
If Trump were to win and post Brexit who knows, especially given a few more terror attacks in France. Le Pen has nothing to lose given most commentators have written her off, the French establishment everything to lose. It is the French working and lower middle-class she needs for a small majority, like Brexit and Trump she can win without most if the elite
While my current view is that she can't win, I do think the experience of last time could work in her favour as many people might be tempted to vote for her just to make sure the result isn't a complete wipe out.
The dynamics will be very different than the Chirac-Le Pen election which was a fluke caused by Lionel Jospin's ineptness which made it easy to deny dignifying Le Pen with the usual coverage a second round Presidential candidate would get. This time everyone is expecting Marine to be in the run off, and her opponent will not be able to avoid taking part in the traditional set pieces.
@Alanbrooke That's just dandy....those who believe in supernatural claptrap are going to populate the future...It's like a throwback to the dinosaurs...
There are many people on this site who believe that Trump is a good thing....But on the great scheme of things that view has a damn site more credibility than people who believe in virgin births, people coming back from the dead , and those ridiculous Christian ceremonies that were inflicted me on as a child when we seemed to speak about shepherds, flocks and sheep.
At least I can see Donald Trump....
well if you reject your own community it;s hardly likely you'll understand someone elses
My mum was summoned into school by my primary school head teacher when I was aged six because I was so antagonistic against any kind of religion..prayers, and all the other crap. My mum was a Christian and completely shocked where I picked it up from.
I was six FFS and I understood then that religion was a whole load of bollox. Six, maybe younger because I certainly never bought into Father Christmas...an equally ludicrous figure as the Christian god....or Jesus, or Mohammed, or any of the other nonsense that is thrown at you when you are impressionable....
However, if he does it will cause the dollar to fall in value. This might cancel out some of Sterling's fall since the Brexit vote. The shock of a Trump win may also mean that the oil price falls due to the perceived damage Trumps economic and trade policies would do to the global economy. It could be argued that for the UK it could be a good thing for Trump to become POTUS economically whilst Brexit goes on.
I saw the comments mocking Obama's comments on the threat of a Trump presidency and was amused. But the truth is the only winners to Trump being elected are China and Russia. I know David Cameron's WW3 threat was mocked in relation to the EU but even that you could argue could be true if the EU fell apart and Russia decided to get into the old soviet habit of invading countries that it perceived to be weak. I am no defender of David Cameron, he got a real good kick up the arse and his reputation is much worse than many of the preceeding holders of that high office.
Given Trump wants a trade war with China I don't think they are exactly winners from a Trump presidency, Russia and Brexit UK maybe
I think China might challenge US dominance in that chain of artificially created islands in the south China sea if Trump is POTUS. They might try and test Trump as he is not a foreign affairs candidate, his focus is domestic as much as it about anything. I agree on the trade war but then again China can make much bigger changes to its economy than a western one due to the lack of democracy. So the US might suffer more as they have more to lose. I think the trade war that Trump threatens is also undermined by the $3 trillion of US debt the Chinese have acquired.
The more I look at Trump on serious issues the more worried I become. He is like a blank sheet of paper but for his populist rhetoric about building walls, getting rid of babies and getting great trade deals.
Problem is for China Trump with his finger on the nuclear button is not someone you want to test too far
Weirdest poll yet today. If that is right - meet President Trump.
And OGH is a brave chap to be on the spreads on this election.
I honestly feel like I'm talking to myself. The denial that this will happen is astonishing. As an embedded reporter - it's bloody obviously possible.
Seven other up to date and even more recent polls in Virginia have Clinton leading by 4 to 12 points , your faith in the freak odd one out is weird .
It is often said by the hard right on here "it will be hilarious if Trump wins because the Guardianistas etc".
The reverse is of course true. Plato, Moniker and the rest of the white nationalist rampers will never be able to show their face again if Trump loses.
The way a betting site has been turned into hard right ramping and poll cherry picking ground is sad. I can only assume that none of these people ever bet.
Winding up guardianistas is always fun, unless one agrees with them.
Guardianistas seems to have become a catch-all term for anyone to the left of Enoch Powell.
Agreed again. If anyone says they don't like Daily Mail readers on this site, they're 'sneering'.
Might be worth looking at the circs of those two newspapers.
Only one is asking readers to become paying supporters.....
But seriously, moaning about this site is just pointless. It simply is one of the most open minded discussion arenas - and also one of the few places where arguments are judged on merit rather than what is deemed as right on.
Feminists, BLM activists, and anyone who is more leftwing that SouthamObserver are treated as more insane and deluded than a Holocaust denier who is referred to positively, on this site if anything. People are more tolerant of Donald Trump, a man who admits to sexual assault than any self-declared socialist. There is an increasing consensus that common sense views = right wing views. People complain about Sun Readers and Trump voters being sneered at, but that's exactly what people do to do minorities when they even dare to talk about racism.
This is the only site I go on where people try to normalise their bizarre views on ethnic minorities and their cultures. I real life I don't hear people getting upset over Jamaican culture, Black History month, and belittle people's concerns as 'playing the race card'. Most people just see others as people, and go about their business. They don't see ethnic minorities as some weird 'other', that are still under integration surveillance.
Weirdest poll yet today. If that is right - meet President Trump.
And OGH is a brave chap to be on the spreads on this election.
I honestly feel like I'm talking to myself. The denial that this will happen is astonishing. As an embedded reporter - it's bloody obviously possible.
Seven other up to date and even more recent polls in Virginia have Clinton leading by 4 to 12 points , your faith in the freak odd one out is weird .
It is often said by the hard right on here "it will be hilarious if Trump wins because the Guardianistas etc".
The reverse is of course true. Plato, Moniker and the rest of the white nationalist rampers will never be able to show their face again if Trump loses.
The way a betting site has been turned into hard right ramping and poll cherry picking ground is sad. I can only assume that none of these people ever bet.
Winding up guardianistas is always fun, unless one agrees with them.
Guardianistas seems to have become a catch-all term for anyone to the left of Enoch Powell.
Agreed again. If anyone says they don't like Daily Mail readers on this site, they're 'sneering'.
Weirdest poll yet today. If that is right - meet President Trump.
And OGH is a brave chap to be on the spreads on this election.
I honestly feel like I'm talking to myself. The denial that this will happen is astonishing. As an embedded reporter - it's bloody obviously possible.
Seven other up to date and even more recent polls in Virginia have Clinton leading by 4 to 12 points , your faith in the freak odd one out is weird .
It is often said by the hard right on here "it will be hilarious if Trump wins because the Guardianistas etc".
The reverse is of course true. Plato, Moniker and the rest of the white nationalist rampers will never be able to show their face again if Trump loses.
The way a betting site has been turned into hard right ramping and poll cherry picking ground is sad. I can only assume that none of these people ever bet.
Winding up guardianistas is always fun, unless one agrees with them.
Guardianistas seems to have become a catch-all term for anyone to the left of Enoch Powell.
Agreed again. If anyone says they don't like Daily Mail readers on this site, they're 'sneering'.
People do get carried away. I think it not unreasonable to suggest the political left (rather than merely people who vote for parties that are officially defined as being to the left) has had a tendency to sneer at even the people they supposedly represent more than the right. However, a competing tendency on the political right has been to treat any criticism of 'the right' (usually defined in such a way as to be hard right) as being in that sneering manner, even when there is little evidence to support that, and in fact often plenty to the contrary on some issues (especially when being on the softer right agree).
However, if he does it will cause the dollar to fall in value. This might cancel out some of Sterling's fall since the Brexit vote. The shock of a Trump win may also mean that the oil price falls due to the perceived damage Trumps economic and trade policies would do to the global economy. It could be argued that for the UK it could be a good thing for Trump to become POTUS economically whilst Brexit goes on.
I saw the comments mocking Obama's comments on the threat of a Trump presidency and was amused. But the truth is the only winners to Trump being elected are China and Russia. I know David Cameron's WW3 threat was mocked in relation to the EU but even that you could argue could be true if the EU fell apart and Russia decided to get into the old soviet habit of invading countries that it perceived to be weak. I am no defender of David Cameron, he got a real good kick up the arse and his reputation is much worse than many of the preceeding holders of that high office.
Given Trump wants a trade war with China I don't think they are exactly winners from a Trump presidency, Russia and Brexit UK maybe
Yeah he's gonna have a trade war with the country that owns their debt. I don't how normally smart people have been utterly fooled by this liar.
Mind you the amount the U.S. imports from China has not exactly helped its debt
Feminists, BLM activists, and anyone who is more leftwing that SouthamObserver are treated as more insane and deluded than a Holocaust denier who is referred to positively, on this site if anything. People are more tolerant of Donald Trump, a man who admits to sexual assault than any self-declared socialist. There is an increasing consensus that common sense views = right wing views. People complain about Sun Readers and Trump voters being sneered at, but that's exactly what people do to do minorities when they even dare to talk about racism.
This is the only site I go on where people try to normalise their bizarre views on ethnic minorities and their cultures. I real life I don't hear people getting upset over Jamaican culture, Black History month, and belittle people's concerns as 'playing the race card'. Most people just see others as people, and go about their business. They don't see ethnic minorities as some weird 'other', that are still under integration surveillance.
None of that is unreasonable. About 55% of the electorate is now broadly, right wing.
Weirdest poll yet today. If that is right - meet President Trump.
And OGH is a brave chap to be on the spreads on this election.
I honestly feel like I'm talking to myself. The denial that this will happen is astonishing. As an embedded reporter - it's bloody obviously possible.
Seven other up to date and even more recent polls in Virginia have Clinton leading by 4 to 12 points , your faith in the freak odd one out is weird .
It is often said by the hard right on here "it will be hilarious if Trump wins because the Guardianistas etc".
The reverse is of course true. Plato, Moniker and the rest of the white nationalist rampers will never be able to show their face again if Trump loses.
The way a betting site has been turned into hard right ramping and poll cherry picking ground is sad. I can only assume that none of these people ever bet.
Winding up guardianistas is always fun, unless one agrees with them.
Guardianistas seems to have become a catch-all term for anyone to the left of Enoch Powell.
Agreed again. If anyone says they don't like Daily Mail readers on this site, they're 'sneering'.
Really? I think anyone with an IQ over 90, regardless of political affiliation either: 1) Ignores the Daily Mail as if it were a scraping from a drained cesspit 2) Reads the comments to laugh at the idiocy therein 3) Uses the sidebar-of-shame as a bit of mid-afternoon titillation 4) Mistakenly clicks on a link
Actually, that *is* sneering, isn't it. Whatever. The Daily Mail is still part of British culture, and I'd hate to see it go. It keeps most of the truly moronic from sites like this, for a start.
The Express, on the other hand, has no value whatsoever, and I'd happily throw it down a mine shaft.
@Alanbrooke That's just dandy....those who believe in supernatural claptrap are going to populate the future...It's like a throwback to the dinosaurs...
There are many people on this site who believe that Trump is a good thing....But on the great scheme of things that view has a damn site more credibility than people who believe in virgin births, people coming back from the dead , and those ridiculous Christian ceremonies that were inflicted me on as a child when we seemed to speak about shepherds, flocks and sheep.
At least I can see Donald Trump....
well if you reject your own community it;s hardly likely you'll understand someone elses
My mum was summoned into school by my primary school head teacher when I was aged six because I was so antagonistic against any kind of religion..prayers, and all the other crap. My mum was a Christian and completely shocked where I picked it up from.
I was six FFS and I understood then that religion was a whole load of bollox. Six, maybe younger because I certainly never bought into Father Christmas...an equally ludicrous figure as the Christian god....or Jesus, or Mohammed, or any of the other nonsense that is thrown at you when you are impressionable....
Weirdest poll yet today. If that is right - meet President Trump.
And OGH is a brave chap to be on the spreads on this election.
I honestly feel like I'm talking to myself. The denial that this will happen is astonishing. As an embedded reporter - it's bloody obviously possible.
Seven other up to date and even more recent polls in Virginia have Clinton leading by 4 to 12 points , your faith in the freak odd one out is weird .
It is often said by the hard right on here "it will be hilarious if Trump wins because the Guardianistas etc".
The reverse is of course true. Plato, Moniker and the rest of the white nationalist rampers will never be able to show their face again if Trump loses.
The way a betting site has been turned into hard right ramping and poll cherry picking ground is sad. I can only assume that none of these people ever bet.
Winding up guardianistas is always fun, unless one agrees with them.
Guardianistas seems to have become a catch-all term for anyone to the left of Enoch Powell.
Agreed again. If anyone says they don't like Daily Mail readers on this site, they're 'sneering'.
Feminists, BLM activists, and anyone who is more leftwing that SouthamObserver are treated as more insane and deluded than a Holocaust denier who is referred to positively, on this site if anything. People are more tolerant of Donald Trump, a man who admits to sexual assault than any self-declared socialist. There is an increasing consensus that common sense views = right wing views. People complain about Sun Readers and Trump voters being sneered at, but that's exactly what people do to do minorities when they even dare to talk about racism.
This is the only site I go on where people try to normalise their bizarre views on ethnic minorities and their cultures. I real life I don't hear people getting upset over Jamaican culture, Black History month, and belittle people's concerns as 'playing the race card'. Most people just see others as people, and go about their business. They don't see ethnic minorities as some weird 'other', that are still under integration surveillance.
And yet, Brexit.
CHORTLE
Hilarious isn't it. Those who have been winning for several decades seem to confuse winning with having won.
However, if he does it will cause the dollar to fall in value. This might cancel out some of Sterling's fall since the Brexit vote. The shock of a Trump win may also mean that the oil price falls due to the perceived damage Trumps economic and trade policies would do to the global economy. It could be argued that for the UK it could be a good thing for Trump to become POTUS economically whilst Brexit goes on.
I saw the comments mocking Obama's comments on the threat of a Trump presidency and was amused. But the truth is the only winners to Trump being elected are China and Russia. I know David Cameron's WW3 threat was mocked in relation to the EU but even that you could argue could be true if the EU fell apart and Russia decided to get into the old soviet habit of invading countries that it perceived to be weak. I am no defender of David Cameron, he got a real good kick up the arse and his reputation is much worse than many of the preceeding holders of that high office.
Given Trump wants a trade war with China I don't think they are exactly winners from a Trump presidency, Russia and Brexit UK maybe
I think China might challenge US dominance in that chain of artificially created islands in the south China sea if Trump is POTUS. They might try and test Trump as he is not a foreign affairs candidate, his focus is domestic as much as it about anything. I agree on the trade war but then again China can make much bigger changes to its economy than a western one due to the lack of democracy. So the US might suffer more as they have more to lose. I think the trade war that Trump threatens is also undermined by the $3 trillion of US debt the Chinese have acquired.
The more I look at Trump on serious issues the more worried I become. He is like a blank sheet of paper but for his populist rhetoric about building walls, getting rid of babies and getting great trade deals.
Problem is for China Trump with his finger on the nuclear button is not someone you want to test too far
True and that is why Trump is so dangerous. Like we saw in the debate where he was like a child because he did not like the rules of the game. He wanted to take the metaphorical ball away to stop the game. The problem with nuclear weapons in any localised conflict would likely become a global exchange = game over planet earth.
Anyway with the latest 'child sex' on Trump scandal apparantly about to break there may be mileage on Clinton 302+. At least the Guardianistas/ Democrats are going crackalacky about it.
Feminists, BLM activists, and anyone who is more leftwing that SouthamObserver are treated as more insane and deluded than a Holocaust denier who is referred to positively, on this site if anything. People are more tolerant of Donald Trump, a man who admits to sexual assault than any self-declared socialist. There is an increasing consensus that common sense views = right wing views. People complain about Sun Readers and Trump voters being sneered at, but that's exactly what people do to do minorities when they even dare to talk about racism.
This is the only site I go on where people try to normalise their bizarre views on ethnic minorities and their cultures. I real life I don't hear people getting upset over Jamaican culture, Black History month, and belittle people's concerns as 'playing the race card'. Most people just see others as people, and go about their business. They don't see ethnic minorities as some weird 'other', that are still under integration surveillance.
And yet, Brexit.
CHORTLE
Huh? You, @Sean_F (judging by his response) seem to think Brexit means that the electorate subscribes to the enterity of your views. I actually know people who voted for Brexit and let's just say they don't share PB's 'views'.
@Sean_F Stop thinking everyone who votes Conservative has PB views. Floating voters, are not the same as people who are right-wing for most of their lives. Disgruntled voters who see UKIP as their 'up yours' option, aren't the same as people on this site either.
@Mortimer You and other right-leaning Conservatives 'claim', this site is reasonable. Perhaps it used to be. Now, it's not.
@SeanT I real life I don't hear people getting upset over Jamaican culture, Black History month, and belittle people's concerns as 'playing the race card'. Most people just see others as people, and go about their business.
I would suggest that that you don't hear it does not mean it does not exist, and extrapolating your real life experience as being the majority may be a little optimistic. I hope it is not so, that it is more reflective of reality, but in my own real life I have encountered people I've known decades who I never knew to hold such views, suddenly reveal quite shockingly racist opinions in a manner as though it were perfectly normal, as presumably they must spend most time among people who think the same. You won't find many, probably none, even on here who would say Sikhs are nice but cannot be British, but I've come across people who have said it. I don't recall people on here saying every foreigner should be made to leave Britain, that would be insane right, but I've heard someone say that to me recently.
I don't think those points are reflective of wider society, and they are more extreme than you find on here. I don't think we can assume someone who has the fortune not to come across such idiocy as much in real life, that they find it less extreme, can be stated definitively to be true either, though I hope so.
Apparently another Wikileaks dump coming designed to shit on Clinton.
Those have been hyped to the end of the Earth and back
I reckon they are saving the best for last, something like 'Hillary been emailing OsamaBinLaden@compuserve.com, and this chap had an Afghani IP address up to 2001'
Apparently another Wikileaks dump coming designed to shit on Clinton.
At the risk of getting all tin-foil, this election is so clearly being manipulated (and possibly won) by entities which have no interest in the well-being of the USA or its citizens. I find that genuinely worrying.
Weirdest poll yet today. If that is right - meet President Trump.
And OGH is a brave chap to be on the spreads on this election.
I honestly feel like I'm talking to myself. The denial that this will happen is astonishing. As an embedded reporter - it's bloody obviously possible.
Seven other up to date and even more recent polls in Virginia have Clinton leading by 4 to 12 points , your faith in the freak odd one out is weird .
It is often said by the hard right on here "it will be hilarious if Trump wins because the Guardianistas etc".
The reverse is of course true. Plato, Moniker and the rest of the white nationalist rampers will never be able to show their face again if Trump loses.
The way a betting site has been turned into hard right ramping and poll cherry picking ground is sad. I can only assume that none of these people ever bet.
Do you type these posts one handed?
Ignore Plato if you don't value her input.
It's much more tedious for the rest of us having to wade through your conceited and self-important fulminating
In my mind the rustbelt demographics of West Pennsylvania could well outweigh the Philidelphia connurbation. I put a bit on Trump there a few weeks ago.
@Alanbrooke That's just dandy....those who believe in supernatural claptrap are going to populate the future...It's like a throwback to the dinosaurs...
There are many people on this site who believe that Trump is a good thing....But on the great scheme of things that view has a damn site more credibility than people who believe in virgin births, people coming back from the dead , and those ridiculous Christian ceremonies that were inflicted me on as a child when we seemed to speak about shepherds, flocks and sheep.
At least I can see Donald Trump....
well if you reject your own community it;s hardly likely you'll understand someone elses
My mum was summoned into school by my primary school head teacher when I was aged six because I was so antagonistic against any kind of religion..prayers, and all the other crap. My mum was a Christian and completely shocked where I picked it up from.
I was six FFS and I understood then that religion was a whole load of bollox. Six, maybe younger because I certainly never bought into Father Christmas...an equally ludicrous figure as the Christian god....or Jesus, or Mohammed, or any of the other nonsense that is thrown at you when you are impressionable....
I trust the Head gave you a good flogging.
He did....he got his own back... one day I was dragged out to the front of assembly, I was wearing shorts (as we all did), and he slapped my bare legs for bullying.
The (my) religious bigotry though is important....you have to remember that the Northern Irish are mostly Lutherans. Really friggin dour...they do not allow singing, or colour in the churches which are just stark. They wear black, and the church services are full of hell, fire and brimstone and misery, homophobic too. Think Ian Paisley..... Bleak, miserable.......not even the slightest glimmer of happiness or joy..
At least the Papes (left footers) like a few drinks, a song and dance, a bit of incense and a good laugh.
I won't go down Islam, because there are other posters like seanT who better articulate my views about that backward load of bollox....
Can I just say...I have tried to temper my nihilistic atheism, bit sometimes it bubbles up...there is no God...It is shit....All of it..Bollox.....
Between your 60 virgins or whatever you manage to get for blowing yourselves up, to thinking that Mary never got shagged and produced a child (how?), your homophobic nonsense, covering up women, hell...burning forever (where), and all the other supernatural crap....you may as well as believe in Scientology. At least Grease was a good film.
We might laugh that 40% of Trump supporters think Hillary is a demon....but in light of what everyone else believes, it's not that stupid is it really?
you;ll never make a gospel choir with that attitude.
But look on the bright side atheists have fewer kids and die sooner so it wont be your problem
I'm an atheist, and I'm breeding like rabbits. (Of course, I recognise that this sort of argument is ridiculous, and that there will always be counter-examples to a general trend, but I'm feeling mildly belligerent.) BUT - is it not just that belief in a god and high levels of fertility are both associated with rather an old-fashioned approach to life? Rather than necessarily cause and effect?
I rarely appear to find common ground with Tyson on anything much, but here I agree with him. Except that, at least aesthetcially, I prefer Protestantism. Give me the simple, whitewashed churches of the highlands over the ebulliently decorated churches of southern Europe. But this is only aesthetics I'm talking about.
Apparently another Wikileaks dump coming designed to shit on Clinton.
Those have been hyped to the end of the Earth and back
I reckon they are saving the best for last, something like 'Hillary been emailing OsamaBinLaden@compuserve.com, and this chap had an Afghani IP address up to 2001'
Your imagination is better than that. Perhaps she's been sexting David Miliband.
Apparently another Wikileaks dump coming designed to shit on Clinton.
Those have been hyped to the end of the Earth and back
I reckon they are saving the best for last, something like 'Hillary been emailing OsamaBinLaden@compuserve.com, and this chap had an Afghani IP address up to 2001'
Or that she supports AV for future elections.... that'd sink her.
@SeanT I real life I don't hear people getting upset over Jamaican culture, Black History month, and belittle people's concerns as 'playing the race card'. Most people just see others as people, and go about their business.
I would suggest that that you don't hear it does not mean it does not exist, and extrapolating your real life experience as being the majority may be a little optimistic. I hope it is not so, that it is more reflective of reality, but in my own real life I have encountered people I've known decades who I never knew to hold such views, suddenly reveal quite shockingly racist opinions in a manner as though it were perfectly normal, as presumably they must spend most time among people who think the same. You won't find many, probably none, even on here who would say Sikhs are nice but cannot be British, but I've come across people who have said it. I don't recall people on here saying every foreigner should be made to leave Britain, that would be insane right, but I've heard someone say that to me recently.
I don't think those points are reflective of wider society, and they are more extreme than you find on here. I don't think we can assume someone who has the fortune not to come across such idiocy as much in real life, that they find it less extreme, can be stated definitively to be true either, though I hope so.
I'm sure there are racists out there, but they aren't the majority in this country. When referring to my real experiences, I was referring to another group of people that I know and talk politics with. I don't have a site to compare this to, because I only really go this site in regard to political discussion these days.
Problem is for China Trump with his finger on the nuclear button is not someone you want to test too far
True and that is why Trump is so dangerous. Like we saw in the debate where he was like a child because he did not like the rules of the game. He wanted to take the metaphorical ball away to stop the game. The problem with nuclear weapons in any localised conflict would likely become a global exchange = game over planet earth.
Do you mean the exchange of nuclear warheads in an initially localised conflict between the US and China, or do you literally mean any use of nuclear weapons in any local conflict? Because in the latter case there are many scenarios which would not lead to a global exchange of nuclear warheads between countries that are among the six that have got hundreds or thousands of them; and even in the former case it might not happen. Spheres of influence change. Empires fall. There won't be "two Chinas" forever.
Feminists, BLM activists, and anyone who is more leftwing that SouthamObserver are treated as more insane and deluded than a Holocaust denier who is referred to positively, on this site if anything. People are more tolerant of Donald Trump, a man who admits to sexual assault than any self-declared socialist. There is an increasing consensus that common sense views = right wing views. People complain about Sun Readers and Trump voters being sneered at, but that's exactly what people do to do minorities when they even dare to talk about racism.
This is the only site I go on where people try to normalise their bizarre views on ethnic minorities and their cultures. I real life I don't hear people getting upset over Jamaican culture, Black History month, and belittle people's concerns as 'playing the race card'. Most people just see others as people, and go about their business. They don't see ethnic minorities as some weird 'other', that are still under integration surveillance.
And yet you were the poster who saw transgenderism as the primary political issue facing the UK at GE2015.
You would be viewed as bizarre yourself by people in real life.
So anyone critical of the Daily Mail, and the views it expresses is 'sneering', then.
Nope. But I was, and I revelled in it.
The Daily Mail is a guilty pleasure for a lot of people, but those that use it as their sole source of news and views are troglodyte cretins beyond redemption.
@SeanT I real life I don't hear people getting upset over Jamaican culture, Black History month, and belittle people's concerns as 'playing the race card'. Most people just see others as people, and go about their business.
I would suggest that that you don't hear it does not mean it does not exist, and extrapolating your real life experience as being the majority may be a little optimistic. I hope it is not so, that it is more reflective of reality, but in my own real life I have encountered people I've known decades who I never knew to hold such views, suddenly reveal quite shockingly racist opinions in a manner as though it were perfectly normal, as presumably they must spend most time among people who think the same. You won't find many, probably none, even on here who would say Sikhs are nice but cannot be British, but I've come across people who have said it. I don't recall people on here saying every foreigner should be made to leave Britain, that would be insane right, but I've heard someone say that to me recently.
I don't think those points are reflective of wider society, and they are more extreme than you find on here. I don't think we can assume someone who has the fortune not to come across such idiocy as much in real life, that they find it less extreme, can be stated definitively to be true either, though I hope so.
I'm sure there are racists out there, but they aren't the majority in this country. When referring to my real experiences, I was referring to another group of people that I know and talk politics with. I don't have a site to compare this to, because I only really go this site in regard to political discussion these days.
It is the only game in town. For a reason. (Like the Tory party).
Feminists, BLM activists, and anyone who is more leftwing that SouthamObserver are treated as more insane and deluded than a Holocaust denier who is referred to positively, on this site if anything. People are more tolerant of Donald Trump, a man who admits to sexual assault than any self-declared socialist. There is an increasing consensus that common sense views = right wing views. People complain about Sun Readers and Trump voters being sneered at, but that's exactly what people do to do minorities when they even dare to talk about racism.
This is the only site I go on where people try to normalise their bizarre views on ethnic minorities and their cultures. I real life I don't hear people getting upset over Jamaican culture, Black History month, and belittle people's concerns as 'playing the race card'. Most people just see others as people, and go about their business. They don't see ethnic minorities as some weird 'other', that are still under integration surveillance.
And yet, Brexit.
CHORTLE
Huh? You, @Sean_F (judging by his response) seem to think Brexit means that the electorate subscribes to the enterity of your views. I actually know people who voted for Brexit and let's just say they don't share PB's 'views'.
PB Leavers are hardly a unified force. Fissures are already developing between soft and hard Brexiteers, and there are even a few Lab and LD Leavers. It's fair to say they do not agree on much.
I have been posting much much less lately, because the endlessly bitching over Brexit (and the disingenuous nature of the proxy arguments) had become wearing.
Bottom line, I'd advise simply ignoring the unpleasant or those who make you angry, here, elsewhere on the web or in real life, at least on certain topics. Some people enjoy a spat getting dirty and vicious, they are happy to give it out and to receive it. Personally, I don't like receiving it, so I don't give it, and consequently get less in the first place.
@SeanT I real life I don't hear people getting upset over Jamaican culture, Black History month, and belittle people's concerns as 'playing the race card'. Most people just see others as people, and go about their business.
I would suggest that that you don't hear it does not mean it does not exist, and extrapolating your real life experience as being the majority may be a little optimistic. I hope it is not so, that it is more reflective of reality, but in my own real life I have encountered people I've known decades who I never knew to hold such views, suddenly reveal quite shockingly racist opinions in a manner as though it were perfectly normal, as presumably they must spend most time among people who think the same. You won't find many, probably none, even on here who would say Sikhs are nice but cannot be British, but I've come across people who have said it. I don't recall people on here saying every foreigner should be made to leave Britain, that would be insane right, but I've heard someone say that to me recently.
I don't think those points are reflective of wider society, and they are more extreme than you find on here. I don't think we can assume someone who has the fortune not to come across such idiocy as much in real life, that they find it less extreme, can be stated definitively to be true either, though I hope so.
I'm sure there are racists out there, but they aren't the majority in this country. When referring to my real experiences, I was referring to another group of people that I know and talk politics with. I don't have a site to compare this to, because I only really go this site in regard to political discussion these days.
You earlier said
"This is the only site I go on where people try to normalise their bizarre views on ethnic minorities and their cultures."
How can you say that this site is unusual in that regard if it's the only one you visit that talks about politics which (I would argue) naturally leads to discussion of such issues?
So anyone critical of the Daily Mail, and the views it expresses is 'sneering', then?
Miss Apocalypse, at the risk of being patronising, may I gently suggest that if the Guardian hadn't spent the last twenty years sneering at the millions of decent people who read the Daily Mail (far more than ever read the Guardian) - and accusing them of being racist Little Englanders or worse - positions might be just a little less polarised?
"US election 2016: Barack Obama warns 'the fate of the world' at risk if Donald Trump elected president and publicly criticises FBI and James Comey"
Blind panic or what?
Reminds me of that bizarre Cameron press conference in front of No. 10 48 hours before the Ref.
Do we now know what on Earth that was all about?
I suspect some sager heads on here used it a cue to step up their stakes on Leave.
The most bizarre thing was the way it got buried in the news cycle so I doubt most people even saw it. He should have gone the whole hog and announced that he would resign whatever the result.
Feminists, BLM activists, and anyone who is more leftwing that SouthamObserver are treated as more insane and deluded than a Holocaust denier who is referred to positively, on this site if anything. People are more tolerant of Donald Trump, a man who admits to sexual assault than any self-declared socialist. There is an increasing consensus that common sense views = right wing views. People complain about Sun Readers and Trump voters being sneered at, but that's exactly what people do to do minorities when they even dare to talk about racism.
This is the only site I go on where people try to normalise their bizarre views on ethnic minorities and their cultures. I real life I don't hear people getting upset over Jamaican culture, Black History month, and belittle people's concerns as 'playing the race card'. Most people just see others as people, and go about their business. They don't see ethnic minorities as some weird 'other', that are still under integration surveillance.
And yet you were the poster who saw transgenderism as the primary political issue facing the UK at GE2015.
You would be viewed as bizarre yourself by people in real life.
When did I say that? That's an outright LIE.
Being concerned about something doesn't equal you seeing it as the 'primary issue affecting the UK'.
@IsabelOakeshott: The PM has her head in her hands as Boris says Britain "will make a Titanic success of Brexit." Cries of "it sank!" at Spectator Awards
"US election 2016: Barack Obama warns 'the fate of the world' at risk if Donald Trump elected president and publicly criticises FBI and James Comey"
Blind panic or what?
Reminds me of that bizarre Cameron press conference in front of No. 10 48 hours before the Ref.
Do we now know what on Earth that was all about?
I suspect some sager heads on here used it a cue to step up their stakes on Leave.
Reading some of the insider reports, I think it was just panic that the Referendum was being lost. Or at least, that the Remain message wasn't being heard/accepted. About the only thing they got right....
@SeanT I real life I don't hear people getting upset over Jamaican culture, Black History month, and belittle people's concerns as 'playing the race card'. Most people just see others as people, and go about their business.
I would suggest that that you don't hear it does not mean it does not exist, and extrapolating your real life experience as being the majority may be a little optimistic. I hope it is not so, that it is more reflective of reality, but in my own real life I have encountered people I've known decades who I never knew to hold such views, suddenly reveal quite shockingly racist opinions in a manner as though it were perfectly normal, as presumably they must spend most time among people who think the same. You won't find many, probably none, even on here who would say Sikhs are nice but cannot be British, but I've come across people who have said it. I don't recall people on here saying every foreigner should be made to leave Britain, that would be insane right, but I've heard someone say that to me recently.
I don't think those points are reflective of wider society, and they are more extreme than you find on here. I don't think we can assume someone who has the fortune not to come across such idiocy as much in real life, that they find it less extreme, can be stated definitively to be true either, though I hope so.
I'm sure there are racists out there, but they aren't the majority in this country. When referring to my real experiences, I was referring to another group of people that I know and talk politics with. I don't have a site to compare this to, because I only really go this site in regard to political discussion these days.
You earlier said
"This is the only site I go on where people try to normalise their bizarre views on ethnic minorities and their cultures."
How can you say that this site is unusual in that regard if it's the only one you visit that talks about politics which (I would argue) naturally leads to discussion of such issues?
Site as in generally (I visit plently of non-political sites).
So anyone critical of the Daily Mail, and the views it expresses is 'sneering', then?
Miss Apocalypse, at the risk of being patronising, may I gently suggest that if the Guardian hadn't spent the last twenty years sneering at the millions of decent people who read the Daily Mail (far more than ever read the Guardian) - and accusing them of being racist Little Englanders or worse - positions might be just a little less polarised?
Ah, so the hypocritical opinions of the right, are all the fault of the Left. That's not a POV I haven't heard of on this site.
My mum was summoned into school by my primary school head teacher when I was aged six because I was so antagonistic against any kind of religion..prayers, and all the other crap. My mum was a Christian and completely shocked where I picked it up from.
I was six FFS and I understood then that religion was a whole load of bollox. Six, maybe younger because I certainly never bought into Father Christmas...an equally ludicrous figure as the Christian god....or Jesus, or Mohammed, or any of the other nonsense that is thrown at you when you are impressionable....
Ha! I remember, aged 9, at my bog standard primary school we had a supply teacher who took assembly, (which, at bog standard primaries in the early 80s, included a religious aspect supported by some horrible child-orientated hymn book) and she took exception to the fact that we pupils didn't appear to be taking the religious aspect terribly seriously, and flew into a rage sufficient to summon the headmistress. The headmistress asked what was wrong, to which the supply teacher replied that we were 'begrudging God 5 minutes of our day'. I remember being absolutely astonished that anyone sincerely believed that we were doing anything more effectual than going through the motions (I didn't really question why - many things at school seemed similarly arbitrary). From the look on the face of the headmistress she was equally astonished.
Feminists, BLM activists, and anyone who is more leftwing that SouthamObserver are treated as more insane and deluded than a Holocaust denier who is referred to positively, on this site if anything. People are more tolerant of Donald Trump, a man who admits to sexual assault than any self-declared socialist. There is an increasing consensus that common sense views = right wing views. People complain about Sun Readers and Trump voters being sneered at, but that's exactly what people do to do minorities when they even dare to talk about racism.
This is the only site I go on where people try to normalise their bizarre views on ethnic minorities and their cultures. I real life I don't hear people getting upset over Jamaican culture, Black History month, and belittle people's concerns as 'playing the race card'. Most people just see others as people, and go about their business. They don't see ethnic minorities as some weird 'other', that are still under integration surveillance.
And yet, Brexit.
CHORTLE
Huh? You, @Sean_F (judging by his response) seem to think Brexit means that the electorate subscribes to the enterity of your views. I actually know people who voted for Brexit and let's just say they don't share PB's 'views'.
PB Leavers are hardly a unified force. Fissures are already developing between soft and hard Brexiteers, and there are even a few Lab and LD Leavers. It's fair to say they do not agree on much.
I have been posting much much less lately, because the endlessly bitching over Brexit (and the disingenuous nature of the proxy arguments) had become wearing.
Bottom line, I'd advise simply ignoring the unpleasant or those who make you angry, here, elsewhere on the web or in real life, at least on certain topics. Some people enjoy a spat getting dirty and vicious, they are happy to give it out and to receive it. Personally, I don't like receiving it, so I don't give it, and consequently get less in the first place.
They are a united force when it comes to talking about terrible Muslims, feminists, Jamaicans, and dismissing racism/sexism as 'playing a card' and 'PC Brigade'. Let's face it: they are a united force when it comes to sneering at demographics which they know are unlikely to vote Conservative/UKIP, and so clearly their concerns and lives don't matter.
So anyone critical of the Daily Mail, and the views it expresses is 'sneering', then?
Miss Apocalypse, at the risk of being patronising, may I gently suggest that if the Guardian hadn't spent the last twenty years sneering at the millions of decent people who read the Daily Mail (far more than ever read the Guardian) - and accusing them of being racist Little Englanders or worse - positions might be just a little less polarised?
Ah, so the hypocritical opinions of the right, are all the fault of the Left. That's not a POV I haven't heard of on this site.
The hypocritical opinions of some on the right are the fault of those who hold them. The hypocritical opinions of some on the left - exceedingly well represented amongst Guardian commentators, it has to be said - are equally the fault of those who hold them. They are mirror images of each other, except that the quality of the writing at the Mail is better.
In any case, your response is unworthy of you. I didn't say anything even remotely like your misrepresentation.
@SeanT I real life I don't hear people getting upset over Jamaican culture, Black History month, and belittle people's concerns as 'playing the race card'. Most people just see others as people, and go about their business.
I would suggest that that you don't hear it does not mean it does not exist, and extrapolating your real life experience as being the majority may be a little optimistic. I hope it is not so, that it is more reflective of reality, but in my own real life I have encountered people I've known decades who I never knew to hold such views, suddenly reveal quite shockingly racist opinions in a manner as though it were perfectly normal, as presumably they must spend most time among people who think the same. You won't find many, probably none, even on here who would say Sikhs are nice but cannot be British, but I've come across people who have said it. I don't recall people on here saying every foreigner should be made to leave Britain, that would be insane right, but I've heard someone say that to me recently.
I don't think those points are reflective of wider society, and they are more extreme than you find on here. I don't think we can assume someone who has the fortune not to come across such idiocy as much in real life, that they find it less extreme, can be stated definitively to be true either, though I hope so.
I'm sure there are racists out there, but they aren't the majority in this country. When referring to my real experiences, I was referring to another group of people that I know and talk politics with. I don't have a site to compare this to, because I only really go this site in regard to political discussion these days.
You earlier said
"This is the only site I go on where people try to normalise their bizarre views on ethnic minorities and their cultures."
How can you say that this site is unusual in that regard if it's the only one you visit that talks about politics which (I would argue) naturally leads to discussion of such issues?
Site as in generally (I visit plently of non-political sites).
As I said in my post, I'd argue this site would tend to have more discussions on those issues given they are often intertwined with politics.
@MichaelPDeacon: Boris Johnson has just said that the Government is going to make "a Titanic" - I repeat "a Titanic" - success of Brexit
@ProfChalmers: It's going to be a disaster now, but your grandchildren will get caught up in a wave of nostalgia when the Brexit Museum opens in 2116. twitter.com/michaelpdeacon…
Weirdest poll yet today. If that is right - meet President Trump.
And OGH is a brave chap to be on the spreads on this election.
I honestly feel like I'm talking to myself. The denial that this will happen is astonishing. As an embedded reporter - it's bloody obviously possible.
Seven other up to date and even more recent polls in Virginia have Clinton leading by 4 to 12 points , your faith in the freak odd one out is weird .
It is often said by the hard right on here "it will be hilarious if Trump wins because the Guardianistas etc".
The reverse is of course true. Plato, Moniker and the rest of the white nationalist rampers will never be able to show their face again if Trump loses.
The way a betting site has been turned into hard right ramping and poll cherry picking ground is sad. I can only assume that none of these people ever bet.
Winding up guardianistas is always fun, unless one agrees with them.
Guardianistas seems to have become a catch-all term for anyone to the left of Enoch Powell.
Agreed again. If anyone says they don't like Daily Mail readers on this site, they're 'sneering'.
Not surprisingly, as it's pure prejudice.
Yet it's not prejudice to sneer or dislike at other groups of people? Looks like sneering or disliking people is only bad on this site if it's against right-wing groups of people.
Problem is for China Trump with his finger on the nuclear button is not someone you want to test too far
True and that is why Trump is so dangerous. Like we saw in the debate where he was like a child because he did not like the rules of the game. He wanted to take the metaphorical ball away to stop the game. The problem with nuclear weapons in any localised conflict would likely become a global exchange = game over planet earth.
Do you mean the exchange of nuclear warheads in an initially localised conflict between the US and China, or do you literally mean any use of nuclear weapons in any local conflict? Because in the latter case there are many scenarios which would not lead to a global exchange of nuclear warheads between countries that are among the six that have got hundreds or thousands of them; and even in the former case it might not happen. Spheres of influence change. Empires fall. There won't be "two Chinas" forever.
Specifically, the US and China in this scenario. If someone like Trump was mad enough to use nuclear weapons would they want to take Russia out as well? The reason being if the US had some collateral damage in the exchange, they might want to diminish Russia's capability as a power as well. Where does it end?
Comments
@MichaelLCrick: Not just best speech George Osborne has ever made, but one of best I've ever heard
I'm tempted to also play the Presidential index.
Trump's 31-32.5 on that.
That's a bet that could send you the poor house.
I use pbCOM because I like to have some kind of dialectic with people of opposite views, like you comrade......
LOL.
Feminists, BLM activists, and anyone who is more leftwing that SouthamObserver are treated as more insane and deluded than a Holocaust denier who is referred to positively, on this site if anything. People are more tolerant of Donald Trump, a man who admits to sexual assault than any self-declared socialist. There is an increasing consensus that common sense views = right wing views. People complain about Sun Readers and Trump voters being sneered at, but that's exactly what people do to do minorities when they even dare to talk about racism.
This is the only site I go on where people try to normalise their bizarre views on ethnic minorities and their cultures. I real life I don't hear people getting upset over Jamaican culture, Black History month, and belittle people's concerns as 'playing the race card'. Most people just see others as people, and go about their business. They don't see ethnic minorities as some weird 'other', that are still under integration surveillance.
[I may have made that up. As an aside, I think khazi is in my top 5 favourite words, along with 'crepuscular', 'glutton' and two others I'll have to think about.]
If multiculturalism is a euphemism for immigrants not having to fit in, it's doomed.
The more I look at Trump on serious issues the more worried I become. He is like a blank sheet of paper but for his populist rhetoric about building walls, getting rid of babies and getting great trade deals.
The dynamics will be very different than the Chirac-Le Pen election which was a fluke caused by Lionel Jospin's ineptness which made it easy to deny dignifying Le Pen with the usual coverage a second round Presidential candidate would get. This time everyone is expecting Marine to be in the run off, and her opponent will not be able to avoid taking part in the traditional set pieces.
I want our rivals to be in Europe for as long as possible.
I was six FFS and I understood then that religion was a whole load of bollox. Six, maybe younger because I certainly never bought into Father Christmas...an equally ludicrous figure as the Christian god....or Jesus, or Mohammed, or any of the other nonsense that is thrown at you when you are impressionable....
Only one is asking readers to become paying supporters.....
But seriously, moaning about this site is just pointless. It simply is one of the most open minded discussion arenas - and also one of the few places where arguments are judged on merit rather than what is deemed as right on.
There are *far* more hardline blogs out there.
1) Ignores the Daily Mail as if it were a scraping from a drained cesspit
2) Reads the comments to laugh at the idiocy therein
3) Uses the sidebar-of-shame as a bit of mid-afternoon titillation
4) Mistakenly clicks on a link
Actually, that *is* sneering, isn't it. Whatever. The Daily Mail is still part of British culture, and I'd hate to see it go. It keeps most of the truly moronic from sites like this, for a start.
The Express, on the other hand, has no value whatsoever, and I'd happily throw it down a mine shaft.
https://twitter.com/DrDavidDuke/status/793938871968903170
@Sean_F Stop thinking everyone who votes Conservative has PB views. Floating voters, are not the same as people who are right-wing for most of their lives. Disgruntled voters who see UKIP as their 'up yours' option, aren't the same as people on this site either.
@Mortimer You and other right-leaning Conservatives 'claim', this site is reasonable. Perhaps it used to be. Now, it's not.
I don't think those points are reflective of wider society, and they are more extreme than you find on here. I don't think we can assume someone who has the fortune not to come across such idiocy as much in real life, that they find it less extreme, can be stated definitively to be true either, though I hope so.
"US election 2016: Barack Obama warns 'the fate of the world' at risk if Donald Trump elected president and publicly criticises FBI and James Comey"
Blind panic or what?
[Wake up sheeple, etc]
Ignore Plato if you don't value her input.
It's much more tedious for the rest of us having to wade through your conceited and self-important fulminating
Although, why would anybody who isn't a Colombian drugs warlord admit to voting for Hillary?
With the choice before them, why would anyone currently admit to being American?
(Of course, I recognise that this sort of argument is ridiculous, and that there will always be counter-examples to a general trend, but I'm feeling mildly belligerent.)
BUT - is it not just that belief in a god and high levels of fertility are both associated with rather an old-fashioned approach to life? Rather than necessarily cause and effect?
I rarely appear to find common ground with Tyson on anything much, but here I agree with him. Except that, at least aesthetcially, I prefer Protestantism. Give me the simple, whitewashed churches of the highlands over the ebulliently decorated churches of southern Europe. But this is only aesthetics I'm talking about.
@Anorak
So anyone critical of the Daily Mail, and the views it expresses is 'sneering', then?
May not be in working order...
I suspect some sager heads on here used it a cue to step up their stakes on Leave.
You would be viewed as bizarre yourself by people in real life.
The Daily Mail is a guilty pleasure for a lot of people, but those that use it as their sole source of news and views are troglodyte cretins beyond redemption.
I have been posting much much less lately, because the endlessly bitching over Brexit (and the disingenuous nature of the proxy arguments) had become wearing.
Bottom line, I'd advise simply ignoring the unpleasant or those who make you angry, here, elsewhere on the web or in real life, at least on certain topics. Some people enjoy a spat getting dirty and vicious, they are happy to give it out and to receive it. Personally, I don't like receiving it, so I don't give it, and consequently get less in the first place.
"This is the only site I go on where people try to normalise their bizarre views on ethnic minorities and their cultures."
How can you say that this site is unusual in that regard if it's the only one you visit that talks about politics which (I would argue) naturally leads to discussion of such issues?
Or next.
Being concerned about something doesn't equal you seeing it as the 'primary issue affecting the UK'.
It struck me as the most desperate act of Cameron's career.
I assumed at the time that they'd seen some awful, awful polling...
NHSRepublic.Trump next Potus is 9/4
But Dems to get 240-269 EV is 5/1
If you fancy a narrow Trump win, that's a reasonable price?
Occasionally some hired actors attend a London pub. The actor who plays Mike was in The Bill.
REMAIN 48%
From the look on the face of the headmistress she was equally astonished.
In any case, your response is unworthy of you. I didn't say anything even remotely like your misrepresentation.
* Ok, a bit of "Groundhog Day"
@ProfChalmers: It's going to be a disaster now, but your grandchildren will get caught up in a wave of nostalgia when the Brexit Museum opens in 2116. twitter.com/michaelpdeacon…