So anyone critical of the Daily Mail, and the views it expresses is 'sneering', then?
Miss Apocalypse, at the risk of being patronising, may I gently suggest that if the Guardian hadn't spent the last twenty years sneering at the millions of decent people who read the Daily Mail (far more than ever read the Guardian) - and accusing them of being racist Little Englanders or worse - positions might be just a little less polarised?
Ah, so the hypocritical opinions of the right, are all the fault of the Left. That's not a POV I haven't heard of on this site.
Surely the lack of a calm and sensible debate on immigration is what has led us to where we are today? It's almost as if the moment you talk of reducing immigration you are called a racist.
@MichaelPDeacon: Boris Johnson has just said that the Government is going to make "a Titanic" - I repeat "a Titanic" - success of Brexit
@ProfChalmers: It's going to be a disaster now, but your grandchildren will get caught up in a wave of nostalgia when the Brexit Museum opens in 2116. twitter.com/michaelpdeacon…
@SeanT I real life I don't hear people getting upset over Jamaican culture, Black History month, and belittle people's concerns as 'playing the race card'. Most people just see others as people, and go about their business.
I would suggest that that you don't hear it does not mean it does not exist, and extrapolating your real life experience as being the majority may be a little optimistic. I hope it is not so, that it is more reflective of reality, but in my own real life I have encountered people I've known decades who I never knew to hold such views, suddenly reveal quite shockingly racist opinions in a manner as though it were perfectly normal, as presumably they must spend most time among people who think the same. You won't find many, probably none, even on here who would say Sikhs are nice but cannot be British, but I've come across people who have said it. I don't recall people on here saying every foreigner should be made to leave Britain, that would be insane right, but I've heard someone say that to me recently.
I don't think those points are reflective of wider society, and they are more extreme than you find on here. I don't think we can assume someone who has the fortune not to come across such idiocy as much in real life, that they find it less extreme, can be stated definitively to be true either, though I hope so.
I'm sure there are racists out there, but they aren't the majority in this country. When referring to my real experiences, I was referring to another group of people that I know and talk politics with. I don't have a site to compare this to, because I only really go this site in regard to political discussion these days.
You earlier said
"This is the only site I go on where people try to normalise their bizarre views on ethnic minorities and their cultures."
How can you say that this site is unusual in that regard if it's the only one you visit that talks about politics which (I would argue) naturally leads to discussion of such issues?
Site as in generally (I visit plently of non-political sites).
So anyone critical of the Daily Mail, and the views it expresses is 'sneering', then.
Nope. But I was, and I revelled in it.
The Daily Mail is a guilty pleasure for a lot of people, but those that use it as their sole source of news and views are troglodyte cretins beyond redemption.
People who use any single media outlet as a sole source of news and views are probably beyond redemption.
Feminists, BLM activists, and anyone who is more leftwing that SouthamObserver are treated as more insane and deluded than a Holocaust denier who is referred to positively, on this site if anything. People are more tolerant of Donald Trump, a man who admits to sexual assault than any self-declared socialist. There is an increasing consensus that common sense views = right wing views. People complain about Sun Readers and Trump voters being sneered at, but that's exactly what people do to do minorities when they even dare to talk about racism.
This is the only site I go on where people try to normalise their bizarre views on ethnic minorities and their cultures. I real life I don't hear people getting upset over Jamaican culture, Black History month, and belittle people's concerns as 'playing the race card'. Most people just see others as people, and go about their business. They don't see ethnic minorities as some weird 'other', that are still under integration surveillance.
And yet, Brexit.
CHORTLE
Huh? You, @Sean_F (judging by his response) seem to think Brexit means that the electorate subscribes to the enterity of your views. I actually know people who voted for Brexit and let's just say they don't share PB's 'views'.
@Sean_F Stop thinking everyone who votes Conservative has PB views. Floating voters, are not the same as people who are right-wing for most of their lives. Disgruntled voters who see UKIP as their 'up yours' option, aren't the same as people on this site either.
@Mortimer You and other right-leaning Conservatives 'claim', this site is reasonable. Perhaps it used to be. Now, it's not.
I suspect I am wasting my breath, but my point was that there is a malign influence amongst young Black British men of the worst aspects of Jamaican culture (the violent gang turf-wars, the dismissal of any form of authority, and the homophobia) that, quite apart from the poor educational outcomes, makes it very hard to police (my sister and cousin, who are both in the police, hear 'is it because I am black?' every single time they stop anyone, without fail) and Black History month, predicated purely on one's skin colour, I find a divisive and racial discriminating concept, aiming to qualify people's identify purely by their skin colour, which the BBC embrace wholeheartedly.
So, I think these are obstacles to full integration. But, generally, they have integrated well.
However, if he does it will cause the dollar to fall in value. This might cancel out some of Sterling's fall since the Brexit vote. The shock of a Trump win may also mean that the oil price falls due to the perceived damage Trumps economic and trade policies would do to the global economy. It could be argued that for the UK it could be a good thing for Trump to become POTUS economically whilst Brexit goes on.
I saw the comments mocking Obama's comments on the threat of a Trump presidency and was amused. But the truth is the only winners to Trump being elected are China and Russia. I know David Cameron's WW3 threat was mocked in relation to the EU but even that you could argue could be true if the EU fell apart and Russia decided to get into the old soviet habit of invading countries that it perceived to be weak. I am no defender of David Cameron, he got a real good kick up the arse and his reputation is much worse than many of the preceeding holders of that high office.
Given Trump wants a trade war with China I don't think they are exactly winners from a Trump presidency, Russia and Brexit UK maybe
I think China might challenge US dominance in that chain of artificially created islands in the south China sea if Trump is POTUS. They might try and test Trump as he is not a foreign affairs candidate, his focus is domestic as much as it about anything. I agree on the trade war but then again China can make much bigger changes to its economy than a western one due to the lack of democracy. So the US might suffer more as they have more to lose. I think the trade war that Trump threatens is also undermined by the $3 trillion of US debt the Chinese have acquired.
The more I look at Trump on serious issues the more worried I become. He is like a blank sheet of paper but for his populist rhetoric about building walls, getting rid of babies and getting great trade deals.
Problem is for China Trump with his finger on the nuclear button is not someone you want to test too far
True and that is why Trump is so dangerous. Like we saw in the debate where he was like a child because he did not like the rules of the game. He wanted to take the metaphorical ball away to stop the game. The problem with nuclear weapons in any localised conflict would likely become a global exchange = game over planet earth.
I doubt Trump would ever use nuclear weapons but he would make his enemies think he might do
Feminists, BLM activists, and anyone who is more leftwing that SouthamObserver are treated as more insane and deluded than a Holocaust denier who is referred to positively, on this site if anything. People are more tolerant of Donald Trump, a man who admits to sexual assault than any self-declared socialist. There is an increasing consensus that common sense views = right wing views. People complain about Sun Readers and Trump voters being sneered at, but that's exactly what people do to do minorities when they even dare to talk about racism.
This is the only site I go on where people try to normalise their bizarre views on ethnic minorities and their cultures. I real life I don't hear people getting upset over Jamaican culture, Black History month, and belittle people's concerns as 'playing the race card'. Most people just see others as people, and go about their business. They don't see ethnic minorities as some weird 'other', that are still under integration surveillance.
And yet, Brexit.
CHORTLE
Huh? You, @Sean_F (judging by his response) seem to think Brexit means that the electorate subscribes to the enterity of your views. I actually know people who voted for Brexit and let's just say they don't share PB's 'views'.
@Sean_F Stop thinking everyone who votes Conservative has PB views. Floating voters, are not the same as people who are right-wing for most of their lives. Disgruntled voters who see UKIP as their 'up yours' option, aren't the same as people on this site either.
@Mortimer You and other right-leaning Conservatives 'claim', this site is reasonable. Perhaps it used to be. Now, it's not.
I think the most common viewpoint here is economically right wing, socially liberal, pro-Brexit.
I think public opinion is generally more hardline on social issues than it is here, but more left wing on economics.
"US election 2016: Barack Obama warns 'the fate of the world' at risk if Donald Trump elected president and publicly criticises FBI and James Comey"
Blind panic or what?
Sad and squalid end to Obama's time in office. Disappointing.
He surely must be TRYING to torpedo Hillary with this intervention? What does he do for an encore, bring on David Rockefeller and George Soros to duet on ODB's Baby I got your money?
So anyone critical of the Daily Mail, and the views it expresses is 'sneering', then.
Nope. But I was, and I revelled in it.
The Daily Mail is a guilty pleasure for a lot of people, but those that use it as their sole source of news and views are troglodyte cretins beyond redemption.
People who use any single media outlet as a sole source of news and views are probably beyond redemption.
"US election 2016: Barack Obama warns 'the fate of the world' at risk if Donald Trump elected president and publicly criticises FBI and James Comey"
Blind panic or what?
Sad and squalid end to Obama's time in office. Disappointing.
He surely must be TRYING to torpedo Hillary with this intervention? What does he do for an encore, bring on David Rockefeller and George Soros to duet on ODB's Baby I got your money?
you do know Obama has a 57% approval rate in the USA?
Feminists, BLM activists, and anyone who is more leftwing that SouthamObserver are treated as more insane and deluded than a Holocaust denier who is referred to positively, on this site if anything. People are more tolerant of Donald Trump, a man who admits to sexual assault than any self-declared socialist. There is an increasing consensus that common sense views = right wing views. People complain about Sun Readers and Trump voters being sneered at, but that's exactly what people do to do minorities when they even dare to talk about racism.
This is the only site I go on where people try to normalise their bizarre views on ethnic minorities and their cultures. I real life I don't hear people getting upset over Jamaican culture, Black History month, and belittle people's concerns as 'playing the race card'. Most people just see others as people, and go about their business. They don't see ethnic minorities as some weird 'other', that are still under integration surveillance.
And yet, Brexit.
CHORTLE
Huh? You, @Sean_F (judging by his response) seem to think Brexit means that the electorate subscribes to the enterity of your views. I actually know people who voted for Brexit and let's just say they don't share PB's 'views'.
PB Leavers are hardly a unified force. Fissures are already developing between soft and hard Brexiteers, and there are even a few Lab and LD Leavers. It's fair to say they do not agree on much.
I have been posting much much less lately, because the endlessly bitching over Brexit (and the disingenuous nature of the proxy arguments) had become wearing.
Bottom line, I'd advise simply ignoring the unpleasant or those who make you angry, here, elsewhere on the web or in real life, at least on certain topics. Some people enjoy a spat getting dirty and vicious, they are happy to give it out and to receive it. Personally, I don't like receiving it, so I don't give it, and consequently get less in the first place.
They are a united force when it comes to talking about terrible Muslims, feminists, Jamaicans, and dismissing racism/sexism as 'playing a card' and 'PC Brigade'. Let's face it: they are a united force when it comes to sneering at demographics which they know are unlikely to vote Conservative/UKIP, and so clearly their concerns and lives don't matter.
Good grief. This is so far from reality is is embarrasing....
I suggest you go and read the excellent afternoon thread from 23rd June.
Feminists, BLM activists, and anyone who is more leftwing that SouthamObserver are treated as more insane and deluded than a Holocaust denier who is referred to positively, on this site if anything. People are more tolerant of Donald Trump, a man who admits to sexual assault than any self-declared socialist. There is an increasing consensus that common sense views = right wing views. People complain about Sun Readers and Trump voters being sneered at, but that's exactly what people do to do minorities when they even dare to talk about racism.
This is the only site I go on where people try to normalise their bizarre views on ethnic minorities and their cultures. I real life I don't hear people getting upset over Jamaican culture, Black History month, and belittle people's concerns as 'playing the race card'. Most people just see others as people, and go about their business. They don't see ethnic minorities as some weird 'other', that are still under integration surveillance.
And yet, Brexit.
CHORTLE
Huh? You, @Sean_F (judging by his response) seem to think Brexit means that the electorate subscribes to the enterity of your views. I actually know people who voted for Brexit and let's just say they don't share PB's 'views'.
PB Leavers are hardly a unified force. Fissures are already developing between soft and hard Brexiteers, and there are even a few Lab and LD Leavers. It's fair to say they do not agree on much.
I have been posting much much less lately, because the endlessly bitching over Brexit (and the disingenuous nature of the proxy arguments) had become wearing.
Bottom line, I'd advise simply ignoring the unpleasant or those who make you angry, here, elsewhere on the web or in real life, at least on certain topics. Some people enjoy a spat getting dirty and vicious, they are happy to give it out and to receive it. Personally, I don't like receiving it, so I don't give it, and consequently get less in the first place.
They are a united force when it comes to talking about terrible Muslims, feminists, Jamaicans, and dismissing racism/sexism as 'playing a card' and 'PC Brigade'. Let's face it: they are a united force when it comes to sneering at demographics which they know are unlikely to vote Conservative/UKIP, and so clearly their concerns and lives don't matter.
Your social circle might be your issue.
If you sincerely believe that the BAME community is pro-gay, unified in their welcoming acceptance of alternative religion and wholly endorse eastern european immigration then you are, putting it kindly, misguided.
Feminists, BLM activists, and anyone who is more leftwing that SouthamObserver are treated as more insane and deluded than a Holocaust denier who is referred to positively, on this site if anything. People are more tolerant of Donald Trump, a man who admits to sexual assault than any self-declared socialist. There is an increasing consensus that common sense views = right wing views. People complain about Sun Readers and Trump voters being sneered at, but that's exactly what people do to do minorities when they even dare to talk about racism.
This is the only site I go on where people try to normalise their bizarre views on ethnic minorities and their cultures. I real life I don't hear people getting upset over Jamaican culture, Black History month, and belittle people's concerns as 'playing the race card'. Most people just see others as people, and go about their business. They don't see ethnic minorities as some weird 'other', that are still under integration surveillance.
And yet, Brexit.
CHORTLE
Huh? You, @Sean_F (judging by his response) seem to think Brexit means that the electorate subscribes to the enterity of your views. I actually know people who voted for Brexit and let's just say they don't share PB's 'views'.
@Sean_F Stop thinking everyone who votes Conservative has PB views. Floating voters, are not the same as people who are right-wing for most of their lives. Disgruntled voters who see UKIP as their 'up yours' option, aren't the same as people on this site either.
@Mortimer You and other right-leaning Conservatives 'claim', this site is reasonable. Perhaps it used to be. Now, it's not.
I think the most common viewpoint here is economically right wing, socially liberal, pro-Brexit.
I think public opinion is generally more hardline on social issues than it is here, but more left wing on economics.
@SeanT I real life I don't hear people getting upset over Jamaican culture, Black History month, and belittle people's concerns as 'playing the race card'. Most people just see others as people, and go about their business.
I would suggest that that you don't hear it does not mean it does not exist, and extrapolating your real life experience as being the majority may be a little optimistic. I hope it is not so, that it is more reflective of reality, but in my own real life I have encountered people I've known decades who I never knew to hold such views, suddenly reveal quite shockingly racist opinions in a manner as though it were perfectly normal, as presumably they must spend most time among people who think the same. You won't find many, probably none, even on here who would say Sikhs are nice but cannot be British, but I've come across people who have said it. I don't recall people on here saying every foreigner should be made to leave Britain, that would be insane right, but I've heard someone say that to me recently.
I don't think those points are reflective of wider society, and they are more extreme than you find on here. I don't think we can assume someone who has the fortune not to come across such idiocy as much in real life, that they find it less extreme, can be stated definitively to be true either, though I hope so.
I'm sure there are racists out there, but they aren't the majority in this country. When referring to my real experiences, I was referring to another group of people that I know and talk politics with. I don't have a site to compare this to, because I only really go this site in regard to political discussion these days.
You earlier said
"This is the only site I go on where people try to normalise their bizarre views on ethnic minorities and their cultures."
How can you say that this site is unusual in that regard if it's the only one you visit that talks about politics which (I would argue) naturally leads to discussion of such issues?
Site as in generally (I visit plently of non-political sites).
OK. Fuck off then?
You can leave with your sneering opinions of us intact; for me, you will have fucked off like the tedious bleating liberal coward you are, so we all win. The solution is: you just fuck off.
I love now that anyone critical of the PB-right wing consensus is a part of a 'liberal elite'.
It's equivalent to right wing (in the USA) whinging about the 'mainstream media' (that is, media that does not support them), or here I suppose whinging about the murdoch press as some malevolent controlling force.
@SeanT I real life I don't hear people getting upset over Jamaican culture, Black History month, and belittle people's concerns as 'playing the race card'. Most people just see others as people, and go about their business.
I wo.
I'm sure there are racists out there, but they aren't the majority in this country.
That would depend heavily on how you define racism, it may be a much larger percentage than you think, and that was rather my point, as you didn't say most people I know, you said most people - and being stunned at people being upset at such things that were raised as though they are inconceivable thoughts makes it harder to actually fight such things, I believe, because it creates a worldview that no one sensible could think such a thing. It's how you wind up with no one knowing anyone who supported a certain thing, and yet it is consistently supported, either because society has completely polarised, or people refuse to hear what others are saying, or don't let them say it because it offends them. I sure as hell kept my mouth shut about voting for Brexit at work, because while I saw it as a difficult, nuanced choice, others made it clear they felt racist nutters were the only ones who would vote that way. Those people would probably say they don't know anyone who supported Brexit. A more moderate voice quieted,
I think Corbyn would make a terrible PM, and practically everyone here would agree, left and right. And yet millions would vote for him. Even the most extreme right wing Brexiteer on here would probably not support deporting all Polish people. But I'd bet millions would vote for it.
Our online travails take us to more extreme and eccentric political positions than we generally find among our own peers in real life, but I don't personally think there is as great a divergence between that and wider society as we'd like to think sometimes.
Good night all, back to lurking for me. One day political discourse will be fun again, rather than hateful, right? Play nice.
Feminists, BLM activists, and anyone who is more leftwing that SouthamObserver are treated as more inslist. There is an increasing consensus that common sense views = right wing views. People complain about Sun Readers and Trump voters being sneered at, but that's exactly what people do to do minorities when they even dare to talk about racism.
This is the only site I go on where people try to normalise their bizarre views on ethnic minorities and their cultures. I real life I don't hear people getting upset over Jamaican culture, Black History month, and belittle people's concerns as 'playing the race card'. Most people just see others as people, and go about their business. They don't see ethnic minorities as some weird 'other', that are still under integration surveillance.
And yet, Brexit.
CHORTLE
Huh? You, @Sean_F (judging by his response) seem to think Brexit means that the electorate subscribes to the enterity of your views. I actually know people who voted for Brexit and let's just say they don't share PB's 'views'.
PB Leavers are hardly a unified force. Fissures are already developing between soft and hard Brexiteers, and there are even a few Lab and LD Leavers. It's fair to say they do not agree on much.
I have been posting much much less lately, because the endlessly bitching over Brexit (and the disingenuous nature of the proxy arguments) had become wearing.
Bottom line, I'd advise simply ignoring the unpleasant or those who make you angry, here, elsewhere on the web or in real life, at least on certain topics. Some people enjoy a spat getting dirty and vicious, they are happy to give it out and to receive it. Personally, I don't like receiving it, so I don't give it, and consequently get less in the first place.
They are a united force when it comes to talking about terrible Muslims, feminists, Jamaicans, and dismissing racism/sexism as 'playing a card' and 'PC Brigade'. Let's face it: they are a united force when it comes to sneering at demographics which they know are unlikely to vote Conservative/UKIP, and so clearly their concerns and lives don't matter.
Your social circle might be your issue.
If you sincerely believe that the BAME community is pro-gay, unified in their welcoming acceptance of alternative religion and wholly endorse eastern european immigration then you are, putting it kindly, misguided.
I've been on record on this site saying that BME cultures are, on the whole, MORE homophobic than "evil Whitey" culture.
"US election 2016: Barack Obama warns 'the fate of the world' at risk if Donald Trump elected president and publicly criticises FBI and James Comey"
Blind panic or what?
Sad and squalid end to Obama's time in office. Disappointing.
He surely must be TRYING to torpedo Hillary with this intervention? What does he do for an encore, bring on David Rockefeller and George Soros to duet on ODB's Baby I got your money?
you do know Obama has a 57% approval rate in the USA?
I suspect in a year's time everybody including us will be looking back fondly at Barry.
I like the bloke anyway. He's conducted himself with dignity and class, which in modern America is quite an achievement it seems.
Feminists, BLM activists, and anyone who is more leftwing that SouthamObserver are treated as more insane and deluded than a Holocaust denier who is referred to positively, on this site if anything. People are more tolerant of Donald Trump, a man who admits to sexual assault than any self-declared socialist. There is an increasing consensus that common sense views = right wing views. People complain about Sun Readers and Trump voters being sneered at, but that's exactly what people do to do minorities when they even dare to talk about racism.
This is the only site I go on where people try to normalise their bizarre views on ethnic minorities and their cultures. I real life I don't hear people getting upset over Jamaican culture, Black History month, and belittle people's concerns as 'playing the race card'. Most people just see others as people, and go about their business. They don't see ethnic minorities as some weird 'other', that are still under integration surveillance.
And yet you were the poster who saw transgenderism as the primary political issue facing the UK at GE2015.
You would be viewed as bizarre yourself by people in real life.
When did I say that? That's an outright LIE.
Being concerned about something doesn't equal you seeing it as the 'primary issue affecting the UK'.
Ah, so you admit you were concerned about it. So perhaps dial down the temper-tantrum.
@MichaelPDeacon: Boris Johnson has just said that the Government is going to make "a Titanic" - I repeat "a Titanic" - success of Brexit
@ProfChalmers: It's going to be a disaster now, but your grandchildren will get caught up in a wave of nostalgia when the Brexit Museum opens in 2116. twitter.com/michaelpdeacon…
Nailed on for the next PMQ.
Where, presumably, May will explain to some dumb Remainer MP what an adjective is.
Feminists, BLM activists, and anyone who is more leftwing that SouthamObserver are treated as more insane and deluded than a Holocaust denier who is referred to positively, on this site if anything. People are more tolerant of Donald Trump, a man who admits to sexual assault than any self-declared socialist. There is an increasing consensus that common sense views = right wing views. People complain about Sun Readers and Trump voters being sneered at, but that's exactly what people do to do minorities when they even dare to talk about racism.
This is the only site I go on where people try to normalise their bizarre views on ethnic minorities and their cultures. I real life I don't hear people getting upset over Jamaican culture, Black History month, and belittle people's concerns as 'playing the race card'. Most people just see others as people, and go about their business. They don't see ethnic minorities as some weird 'other', that are still under integration surveillance.
And yet, Brexit.
CHORTLE
Huh? You, @Sean_F (judging by his response) seem to think Brexit means that the electorate subscribes to the enterity of your views. I actually know people who voted for Brexit and let's just say they don't share PB's 'views'.
@Sean_F Stop thinking everyone who votes Conservative has PB views. Floating voters, are not the same as people who are right-wing for most of their lives. Disgruntled voters who see UKIP as their 'up yours' option, aren't the same as people on this site either.
@Mortimer You and other right-leaning Conservatives 'claim', this site is reasonable. Perhaps it used to be. Now, it's not.
I think the most common viewpoint here is economically right wing, socially liberal, pro-Brexit.
I think public opinion is generally more hardline on social issues than it is here, but more left wing on economics.
I don't think the political centre on here is too far from the political centre of the nation, on the basis of current polls. And there are plenty of lefties here too - Southam, Jonathan, Foxinsox, NPXMP, Tyson, Sandy Rentool, Roger, and so on. I agree though that the libertarian right is probably more represented here than in real life
My mum was summoned into school by my primary school head teacher when I was aged six because I was so antagonistic against any kind of religion..prayers, and all the other crap. My mum was a Christian and completely shocked where I picked it up from.
I was six FFS and I understood then that religion was a whole load of bollox. Six, maybe younger because I certainly never bought into Father Christmas...an equally ludicrous figure as the Christian god....or Jesus, or Mohammed, or any of the other nonsense that is thrown at you when you are impressionable....
Ha! I remember, aged 9, at my bog standard primary school we had a supply teacher who took assembly, (which, at bog standard primaries in the early 80s, included a religious aspect supported by some horrible child-orientated hymn book) and she took exception to the fact that we pupils didn't appear to be taking the religious aspect terribly seriously, and flew into a rage sufficient to summon the headmistress. The headmistress asked what was wrong, to which the supply teacher replied that we were 'begrudging God 5 minutes of our day'. I remember being absolutely astonished that anyone sincerely believed that we were doing anything more effectual than going through the motions (I didn't really question why - many things at school seemed similarly arbitrary). From the look on the face of the headmistress she was equally astonished.
It's why when anyone talks about faith schools...my heart sinks.....
I am so viscerally opposed to religion... I could be particularly abusive about Islam, so much so that it would make seanT appear to be a Saint...but I don't go down there. I stop myself...I'd have to have a pop at all the other whacky doctrines too.
Anyway, over the years I have learnt to be more guarded and to keep my religious views to myself (except tonight...you have to forgive the odd slip).
@MichaelPDeacon: Boris Johnson has just said that the Government is going to make "a Titanic" - I repeat "a Titanic" - success of Brexit
@ProfChalmers: It's going to be a disaster now, but your grandchildren will get caught up in a wave of nostalgia when the Brexit Museum opens in 2116. twitter.com/michaelpdeacon…
Nailed on for the next PMQ.
Where, presumably, May will explain to some dumb Remainer MP what an adjective is.
And Corbyn will regale us with more facts about the Posted Workers Directive.
So anyone critical of the Daily Mail, and the views it expresses is 'sneering', then.
Nope. But I was, and I revelled in it.
The Daily Mail is a guilty pleasure for a lot of people, but those that use it as their sole source of news and views are troglodyte cretins beyond redemption.
People who use any single media outlet as a sole source of news and views are probably beyond redemption.
Problem is for China Trump with his finger on the nuclear button is not someone you want to test too far
True and that is why Trump is so dangerous. Like we saw in the debate where he was like a child because he did not like the rules of the game. He wanted to take the metaphorical ball away to stop the game. The problem with nuclear weapons in any localised conflict would likely become a global exchange = game over planet earth.
Do you mean the exchange of nuclear warheads in an initially localised conflict between the US and China, or do you literally mean any use of nuclear weapons in any local conflict? Because in the latter case there are many scenarios which would not lead to a global exchange of nuclear warheads between countries that are among the six that have got hundreds or thousands of them; and even in the former case it might not happen. Spheres of influence change. Empires fall. There won't be "two Chinas" forever.
Specifically, the US and China in this scenario. If someone like Trump was mad enough to use nuclear weapons would they want to take Russia out as well? The reason being if the US had some collateral damage in the exchange, they might want to diminish Russia's capability as a power as well. Where does it end?
If Trump acted on a desire to take Russia out, then certainly there would be a massive exchange between the two biggest nuclear stockpilers, although I'd like to think the US brass would remove the nutter first. Sometimes there is a good case for a military coup. More likely is a limited nuclear war between Russia and NATO in Europe or one in the Middle East. I was expecting Trump to shift to a hard line against Russia before the election, but so far he hasn't. There is something unsatisfying about a storyline in which the candidate who is more likely to be a Russian asset keeps praising the Russian leadership. That's not what it was like in the Manchurian Candidate!
Feminists, BLM activists, and anyone who is more leftwing that SouthamObserver are treated as more insane and deluded than a Holocaust denier who is referred to positively, on this site if anything. People are more tolerant of Donald Trump, a man who admits to sexual assault than any self-declared socialist. There is an increasing consensus that common sense views = right wing views. People complain about Sun Readers and Trump voters being sneered at, but that's exactly what people do to do minorities when they even dare to talk about racism.
This is the only site I go on where people try to normalise their bizarre views on ethnic minorities and their cultures. I real life I don't hear people getting upset over Jamaican culture, Black History month, and belittle people's concerns as 'playing the race card'. Most people just see others as people, and go about their business. They don't see ethnic minorities as some weird 'other', that are still under integration surveillance.
And yet, Brexit.
CHORTLE
Huh? You, @Sean_F (judging by his response) seem to think Brexit means that the electorate subscribes to the enterity of your views. I actually know people who voted for Brexit and let's just say they don't share PB's 'views'.
@Sean_F Stop thinking everyone who votes Conservative has PB views. Floating voters, are not the same as people who are right-wing for most of their lives. Disgruntled voters who see UKIP as their 'up yours' option, aren't the same as people on this site either.
@Mortimer You and other right-leaning Conservatives 'claim', this site is reasonable. Perhaps it used to be. Now, it's not.
I think the most common viewpoint here is economically right wing, socially liberal, pro-Brexit.
I think public opinion is generally more hardline on social issues than it is here, but more left wing on economics.
This site is not socially liberal.
It's more pro-gay marriage than the UK population as a whole, I'd say.
I can't recall anyone supporting the death penalty (and Priti Patel was disowned when she expressed that view).
And there do seem to be a remarkable number of folks here who have foreign partners. (Not including my Scottish wife as "foreign". Yet...)
I suspect I am wasting my breath, but my point was that there is a malign influence amongst young Black British men of the worst aspects of Jamaican culture (the violent gang turf-wars, the dismissal of any form of authority, and the homophobia) that, quite apart from the poor educational outcomes, makes it very hard to police (my sister and cousin, who are both in the police, hear 'is it because I am black?' every single time they stop anyone, without fail) and Black History month, predicated purely on one's skin colour, I find a divisive and racial discriminating concept, aiming to qualify people's identify purely by their skin colour, which the BBC embrace wholeheartedly.
So, I think these are obstacles to full integration. But, generally, they have integrated well.
Well Casino Royale thinks half of my family have integrated well, despite listing all these qualifiers. Maybe they hear 'is it because I'm Black' because the police have a pretty recent history of being racist towards Black people in this country? Black History Month happens because Black history rarely covered in the general history curriculum. Ethnic minorities, courtesy of the British Empire as well as post-WW2 have contributed to this country. We are not just some minor group that have spent time doing absolutely nothing.
Black people didn't choose to be defined by their skin colour; years of racism have done that for them. People aren't just going to forget years of shared experiences because a couple of people on PB have decided that we live in a post-racist society.
Feminists, BLM activists, and anyone who is more leftwing that SouthamObserver are treated as more insane and deluded than a Holocaust denier who is referred to positively, on this site if anything. People are more tolerant of Donald Trump, a man who admits to sexual assault than any self-declared socialist. There is an increasing consensus that common sense views = right wing views. People complain about Sun Readers and Trump voters being sneered at, but that's exactly what people do to do minorities when they even dare to talk about racism.
This is the only site I go on where people try to normalise their bizarre views on ethnic minorities and their cultures. I real life I don't hear people getting upset over Jamaican culture, Black History month, and belittle people's concerns as 'playing the race card'. Most people just see others as people, and go about their business. They don't see ethnic minorities as some weird 'other', that are still under integration surveillance.
And yet, Brexit.
CHORTLE
Huh? You, @Sean_F (judging by his response) seem to think Brexit means that the electorate subscribes to the enterity of your views. I actually know people who voted for Brexit and let's just say they don't share PB's 'views'.
@Sean_F Stop thinking everyone who votes Conservative has PB views. Floating voters, are not the same as people who are right-wing for most of their lives. Disgruntled voters who see UKIP as their 'up yours' option, aren't the same as people on this site either.
@Mortimer You and other right-leaning Conservatives 'claim', this site is reasonable. Perhaps it used to be. Now, it's not.
I think the most common viewpoint here is economically right wing, socially liberal, pro-Brexit.
I think public opinion is generally more hardline on social issues than it is here, but more left wing on economics.
This site is not socially liberal.
Relative to you, no. But you're nearly off the scale relative to the country as a whole.
Problem is for China Trump with his finger on the nuclear button is not someone you want to test too far
True and that is why Trump is so dangerous. Like we saw in the debate where he was like a child because he did not like the rules of the game. He wanted to take the metaphorical ball away to stop the game. The problem with nuclear weapons in any localised conflict would likely become a global exchange = game over planet earth.
Do you mean the exchange of nuclear warheads in an initially localised conflict between the US and China, or do you literally mean any use of nuclear weapons in any local conflict? Because in the latter case there are many scenarios which would not lead to a global exchange of nuclear warheads between countries that are among the six that have got hundreds or thousands of them; and even in the former case it might not happen. Spheres of influence change. Empires fall. There won't be "two Chinas" forever.
Specifically, the US and China in this scenario. If someone like Trump was mad enough to use nuclear weapons would they want to take Russia out as well? The reason being if the US had some collateral damage in the exchange, they might want to diminish Russia's capability as a power as well. Where does it end?
If Trump acted on a desire to take Russia out, then certainly there would be a massive exchange between the two biggest nuclear stockpilers, although I'd like to think the US brass would remove the nutter first. Sometimes there is a good case for a military coup. More likely is a limited nuclear war between Russia and NATO in Europe or one in the Middle East. I was expecting Trump to shift to a hard line against Russia before the election, but so far he hasn't.
Contrary to movies, there is no 'two man rule' for the presidential authorisation. It's only used in the silo/sub by the commanders to verify the order itself.
Feminists, BLM activists, and anyone who is more leftwing that SouthamObserver are treated as more insane and deluded than a Holocaust denier who is referred to positively, on this site if anything. People are more tolerant of Donald Trump, a man who admits to sexual assault than any self-declared socialist. There is an increasing consensus that common sense views = right wing views. People complain about Sun Readers and Trump voters being sneered at, but that's exactly what people do to do minorities when they even dare to talk about racism.
This is the only site I go on where people try to normalise their bizarre views on ethnic minorities and their cultures. I real life I don't hear people getting upset over Jamaican culture, Black History month, and belittle people's concerns as 'playing the race card'. Most people just see others as people, and go about their business. They don't see ethnic minorities as some weird 'other', that are still under integration surveillance.
And yet, Brexit.
CHORTLE
Huh? You, @Sean_F (judging by his response) seem to think Brexit means that the electorate subscribes to the enterity of your views. I actually know people who voted for Brexit and let's just say they don't share PB's 'views'.
PB Leavers are hardly a unified force. Fissures are already developing between soft and hard Brexiteers, and there are even a few Lab and LD Leavers. It's fair to say they do not agree on much.
I have been posting much much less lately, because the endlessly bitching over Brexit (and the disingenuous nature of the proxy arguments) had become wearing.
Bottom line, I'd advise simply ignoring the unpleasant or those who make you angry, here, elsewhere on the web or in real life, at least on certain topics. Some people enjoy a spat getting dirty and vicious, they are happy to give it out and to receive it. Personally, I don't like receiving it, so I don't give it, and consequently get less in the first place.
They are a united force when it comes to talking about terrible Muslims, feminists, Jamaicans, and dismissing racism/sexism as 'playing a card' and 'PC Brigade'. Let's face it: they are a united force when it comes to sneering at demographics which they know are unlikely to vote Conservative/UKIP, and so clearly their concerns and lives don't matter.
A united force that is now in the political ascendancy, after your form of identity politics has had a good run of over 20 years.
@SeanT I real life I don't hear people getting upset over Jamaican culture, Black History month, and belittle people's concerns as 'playing the race card'. Most people just see others as people, and go about their business.
I would suggest that that you don't hear it does not mean it does not exist, and extrapolating your real life experience as being the majority may be a little optimistic. I hope it is not so, that it is more reflective of reality, but in my own real life I have encountered people I've known decades who I never knew to hold such views, suddenly reveal quite shockingly racist opinions in a manner as though it were perfectly normal, as presumably they must spend most time among people who think the same. You won't find many, probably none, even on here who would say Sikhs are nice but cannot be British, but I've come across people who have said it. I don't recall people on here saying every foreigner should be made to leave Britain, that would be insane right, but I've heard someone say that to me recently.
I don't think those points are reflective of wider society, and they are more extreme than you find on here. I don't think we can assume someone who has the fortune not to come across such idiocy as much in real life, that they find it less extreme, can be stated definitively to be true either, though I hope so.
I'm sure there are racists out there, but they aren't the majority in this country. When referring to my real experiences, I was referring to another group of people that I know and talk politics with. I don't have a site to compare this to, because I only really go this site in regard to political discussion these days.
I can't find any political site like this. Literally. I think this is the ONLY vibrant, cross-party UK politics website with genuine and vigorous input from all sides. It would be nice if there was another, in case Mike gets bored.
It also says something sad about British politics. The death of debate.
Eh, personally I think the diversions in cricket, trains, ancient history, pharmaceuticals and hedonistic adventure alleviate the worst buildups of antipathy by adding levity to the tone, but regrettably casualties occur along the way between these tension reducing diversions.
I find it harder to get screamingly mad at some idiot Nat, right winger or Corbynite if I learn they also like the same TV shows as me or like cricket. Though I've only gotten screamingly mad on a few occasions, and two of those were at you, case proven I guess.
Feminists, BLM activists, and anyone who is more leftwing that SouthamObserver are treated as more insane and deluded than a Holocaust denier who is referred to positively, on this site if anything. People are more tolerant of Donald Trump, a man who admits to sexual assault than any self-declared socialist. There is an increasing consensus that common sense views = right wing views. People complain about Sun Readers and Trump voters being sneered at, but that's exactly what people do to do minorities when they even dare to talk about racism.
This is the only site I go on where people try to normalise their bizarre views on ethnic minorities and their cultures. I real life I don't hear people getting upset over Jamaican culture, Black History month, and belittle people's concerns as 'playing the race card'. Most people just see others as people, and go about their business. They don't see ethnic minorities as some weird 'other', that are still under integration surveillance.
And yet, Brexit.
CHORTLE
Huh? You, @Sean_F (judging by his response) seem to think Brexit means that the electorate subscribes to the enterity of your views. I actually know people who voted for Brexit and let's just say they don't share PB's 'views'.
@Sean_F Stop thinking everyone who votes Conservative has PB views. Floating voters, are not the same as people who are right-wing for most of their lives. Disgruntled voters who see UKIP as their 'up yours' option, aren't the same as people on this site either.
@Mortimer You and other right-leaning Conservatives 'claim', this site is reasonable. Perhaps it used to be. Now, it's not.
I think the most common viewpoint here is economically right wing, socially liberal, pro-Brexit.
I think public opinion is generally more hardline on social issues than it is here, but more left wing on economics.
I don't think the political centre on here is too far from the political centre of the nation, on the basis of current polls. And there are plenty of lefties here too - Southam, Jonathan, Foxinsox, NPXMP, Tyson, Sandy Rentool, Roger, and so on. I agree though that the libertarian right is probably more represented here than in real life
I think it's a sign of the centre of gravity on this site that liberals and (very) moderate labourites are described as lefties. Back in the day it was folk like Dennis and Corbyn that were lefties.
@SeanT I real life I don't hear people getting upset over Jamaican culture, Black History month, and belittle people's concerns as 'playing the race card'. Most people just see others as people, and go about their business.
I would suggest that that you don't hear it does not mean it does not exist, and extrapolating your real life experience as being the majority may be a little optimistic. I hope it is not so, that it is more reflective of reality, but in my own real life I have encountered people I've known decades who I never knew to hold such views, suddenly reveal quite shockingly racist opinions in a manner as though it were perfectly normal, as presumably they must spend most time among people who think the same. You won't find many, probably none, even on here who would say Sikhs are nice but cannot be British, but I've come across people who have said it. I don't recall people on here saying every foreigner should be made to leave Britain, that would be insane right, but I've heard someone say that to me recently.
I don't think those points are reflective of wider society, and they are more extreme than you find on here. I don't think we can assume someone who has the fortune not to come across such idiocy as much in real life, that they find it less extreme, can be stated definitively to be true either, though I hope so.
I'm sure there are racists out there, but they aren't the majority in this country. When referring to my real experiences, I was referring to another group of people that I know and talk politics with. I don't have a site to compare this to, because I only really go this site in regard to political discussion these days.
You earlier said
"This is the only site I go on where people try to normalise their bizarre views on ethnic minorities and their cultures."
How can you say that this site is unusual in that regard if it's the only one you visit that talks about politics which (I would argue) naturally leads to discussion of such issues?
Site as in generally (I visit plently of non-political sites).
OK. Fuck off then?
You can leave with your sneering opinions of us intact; for me, you will have fucked off like the tedious bleating liberal coward you are, so we all win. The solution is: you just fuck off.
Deal?
LOL. You really can't deal with criticism of your POV can you?
Problem is for China Trump with his finger on the nuclear button is not someone you want to test too far
True and that is why Trump is so dangerous. Like we saw in the debate where he was like a child because he did not like the rules of the game. He wanted to take the metaphorical ball away to stop the game. The problem with nuclear weapons in any localised conflict would likely become a global exchange = game over planet earth.
Do you mean the exchange of nuclear warheads in an initially localised conflict between the US and China, or do you literally mean any use of nuclear weapons in any local conflict? Because in the latter case there are many scenarios which would not lead to a global exchange of nuclear warheads between countries that are among the six that have got hundreds or thousands of them; and even in the former case it might not happen. Spheres of influence change. Empires fall. There won't be "two Chinas" forever.
Specifically, the US and China in this scenario. If someone like Trump was mad enough to use nuclear weapons would they want to take Russia out as well? The reason being if the US had some collateral damage in the exchange, they might want to diminish Russia's capability as a power as well. Where does it end?
If Trump acted on a desire to take Russia out, then certainly there would be a massive exchange between the two biggest nuclear stockpilers, although I'd like to think the US brass would remove the nutter first. Sometimes there is a good case for a military coup. More likely is a limited nuclear war between Russia and NATO in Europe or one in the Middle East. I was expecting Trump to shift to a hard line against Russia before the election, but so far he hasn't.
If nuclear weapons are used again in my lifetime, I expect it to be India and Pakistan using them.
I think it's more socially liberal than you are. You seem to be infused with prejudice against millions of decent people, who read the Mail or vote Conservative.
"'Jane Doe has received numerous threats today,' [her lawyer Lisa Bloom] told the assembled journalists and TV cameras. 'She has decided she is too afraid to show her face... She is in terrible fear.'"
Feminists, BLM activists, and anyone who is more leftwing that SouthamObserver are treated as more insane and deluded than a Holocaust denier who is referred to positively, on this site if anything. People are more tolerant of Donald Trump, a man who admits to sexual assault than any self-declared socialist. There is an increasing consensus that common sense views = right wing views. People complain about Sun Readers and Trump voters being sneered at, but that's exactly what people do to do minorities when they even dare to talk about racism.
This is the only site I go on where people try to normalise their bizarre views on ethnic minorities and their cultures. I real life I don't hear people getting upset over Jamaican culture, Black History month, and belittle people's concerns as 'playing the race card'. Most people just see others as people, and go about their business. They don't see ethnic minorities as some weird 'other', that are still under integration surveillance.
And yet, Brexit.
CHORTLE
Huh? You, @Sean_F (judging by his response) seem to think Brexit means that the electorate subscribes to the enterity of your views. I actually know people who voted for Brexit and let's just say they don't share PB's 'views'.
@Sean_F Stop thinking everyone who votes Conservative has PB views. Floating voters, are not the same as people who are right-wing for most of their lives. Disgruntled voters who see UKIP as their 'up yours' option, aren't the same as people on this site either.
@Mortimer You and other right-leaning Conservatives 'claim', this site is reasonable. Perhaps it used to be. Now, it's not.
I think the most common viewpoint here is economically right wing, socially liberal, pro-Brexit.
I think public opinion is generally more hardline on social issues than it is here, but more left wing on economics.
I don't think the political centre on here is too far from the political centre of the nation, on the basis of current polls. And there are plenty of lefties here too - Southam, Jonathan, Foxinsox, NPXMP, Tyson, Sandy Rentool, Roger, and so on. I agree though that the libertarian right is probably more represented here than in real life
Feminists, BLM activists, and anyone who is more leftwing that SouthamObserver are treated as more insane and deluded than a Holocaust denier who is referred to positively, on this site if anything. People are more tolerant of Donald Trump, a man who admits to sexual assault than any self-declared socialist. There is an increasing consensus that common sense views = right wing views. People complain about Sun Readers and Trump voters being sneered at, but that's exactly what people do to do minorities when they even dare to talk about racism.
This is the only site I go on where people try to normalise their bizarre views on ethnic minorities and their cultures. I real life I don't hear people getting upset over Jamaican culture, Black History month, and belittle people's concerns as 'playing the race card'. Most people just see others as people, and go about their business. They don't see ethnic minorities as some weird 'other', that are still under integration surveillance.
And yet, Brexit.
CHORTLE
Huh? You, @Sean_F (judging by his response) seem to think Brexit means that the electorate subscribes to the enterity of your views. I actually know people who voted for Brexit and let's just say they don't share PB's 'views'.
@Sean_F Stop thinking everyone who votes Conservative has PB views. Floating voters, are not the same as people who are right-wing for most of their lives. Disgruntled voters who see UKIP as their 'up yours' option, aren't the same as people on this site either.
@Mortimer You and other right-leaning Conservatives 'claim', this site is reasonable. Perhaps it used to be. Now, it's not.
I think the most common viewpoint here is economically right wing, socially liberal, pro-Brexit.
I think public opinion is generally more hardline on social issues than it is here, but more left wing on economics.
This site is not socially liberal.
It's more pro-gay marriage than the UK population as a whole, I'd say.
I can't recall anyone supporting the death penalty (and Priti Patel was disowned when she expressed that view).
And there do seem to be a remarkable number of folks here who have foreign partners. (Not including my Scottish wife as "foreign". Yet...)
Supporting gay marriage doesn't in itself make someone socially liberal. Having a foreign wife doesn't really mean anything. There are people out in interracial relationships with racist views. Once I discovered that I realised anything is possible.
Feminists, BLM activists, and anyone who is more leftwing that SouthamObserver are treated as more insane and deluded than a Holocaust denier who is referred to positively, on this site if anything. People are more tolerant of Donald Trump, a man who admits to sexual assault than any self-declared socialist. There is an increasing consensus that common sense views = right wing views. People complain about Sun Readers and Trump voters being sneered at, but that's exactly what people do to do minorities when they even dare to talk about racism.
This is the only site I go on where people try to normalise their bizarre views on ethnic minorities and their cultures. I real life I don't hear people getting upset over Jamaican culture, Black History month, and belittle people's concerns as 'playing the race card'. Most people just see others as people, and go about their business. They don't see ethnic minorities as some weird 'other', that are still under integration surveillance.
And yet, Brexit.
CHORTLE
Huh? You, @Sean_F (judging by his response) seem to think Brexit means that the electorate subscribes to the enterity of your views. I actually know people who voted for Brexit and let's just say they don't share PB's 'views'.
@Sean_F Stop thinking everyone who votes Conservative has PB views. Floating voters, are not the same as people who are right-wing for most of their lives. Disgruntled voters who see UKIP as their 'up yours' option, aren't the same as people on this site either.
@Mortimer You and other right-leaning Conservatives 'claim', this site is reasonable. Perhaps it used to be. Now, it's not.
I think the most common viewpoint here is economically right wing, socially liberal, pro-Brexit.
I think public opinion is generally more hardline on social issues than it is here, but more left wing on economics.
This site is not socially liberal.
It's socially liberal compared to British voters in general. The voters hate freedom.
Feminists, BLM activists, and anyone who is more leftwing that SouthamObserver are treated as more insane and deluded than a Holocaust denier who is referred to positively, on this site if anything. People are more tolerant of Donald Trump, a man who admits to sexual assault than any self-declared socialist. There is an increasing consensus that common sense views = right wing views. People complain about Sun Readers and Trump voters being sneered at, but that's exactly what people do to do minorities when they even dare to talk about racism.
This is the only site I go on where people try to normalise their bizarre views on ethnic minorities and their cultures. I real life I don't hear people getting upset over Jamaican culture, Black History month, and belittle people's concerns as 'playing the race card'. Most people just see others as people, and go about their business. They don't see ethnic minorities as some weird 'other', that are still under integration surveillance.
And yet, Brexit.
CHORTLE
Huh? You, @Sean_F (judging by his response) seem to think Brexit means that the electorate subscribes to the enterity of your views. I actually know people who voted for Brexit and let's just say they don't share PB's 'views'.
@Sean_F Stop thinking everyone who votes Conservative has PB views. Floating voters, are not the same as people who are right-wing for most of their lives. Disgruntled voters who see UKIP as their 'up yours' option, aren't the same as people on this site either.
@Mortimer You and other right-leaning Conservatives 'claim', this site is reasonable. Perhaps it used to be. Now, it's not.
I think the most common viewpoint here is economically right wing, socially liberal, pro-Brexit.
I think public opinion is generally more hardline on social issues than it is here, but more left wing on economics.
This site is not socially liberal.
Oh come off it. If you think this site is more socially conservative than the country as a whole then you really need to meet a wider variety of people.
Feminists, BLM activists, and anyone who is more leftwing that SouthamObserver are treated as more insane and deluded than a Holocaust denier who is referred to positively, on this site if anything. People are more tolerant of Donald Trump, a man who admits to sexual assault than any self-declared socialist. There is an increasing consensus that common sense views = right wing views. People complain about Sun Readers and Trump voters being sneered at, but that's exactly what people do to do minorities when they even dare to talk about racism.
This is the only site I go on where people try to normalise their bizarre views on ethnic minorities and their cultures. I real life I don't hear people getting upset over Jamaican culture, Black History month, and belittle people's concerns as 'playing the race card'. Most people just see others as people, and go about their business. They don't see ethnic minorities as some weird 'other', that are still under integration surveillance.
And yet, Brexit.
CHORTLE
Huh? You, @Sean_F (judging by his response) seem to think Brexit means that the electorate subscribes to the enterity of your views. I actually know people who voted for Brexit and let's just say they don't share PB's 'views'.
@Sean_F Stop thinking everyone who votes Conservative has PB views. Floating voters, are not the same as people who are right-wing for most of their lives. Disgruntled voters who see UKIP as their 'up yours' option, aren't the same as people on this site either.
@Mortimer You and other right-leaning Conservatives 'claim', this site is reasonable. Perhaps it used to be. Now, it's not.
I think the most common viewpoint here is economically right wing, socially liberal, pro-Brexit.
I think public opinion is generally more hardline on social issues than it is here, but more left wing on economics.
This site is not socially liberal.
It's more pro-gay marriage than the UK population as a whole, I'd say.
I can't recall anyone supporting the death penalty (and Priti Patel was disowned when she expressed that view).
And there do seem to be a remarkable number of folks here who have foreign partners. (Not including my Scottish wife as "foreign". Yet...)
Supporting gay marriage doesn't in itself make someone socially liberal. Having a foreign wife doesn't really mean anything. There are people out in interracial relationships with racist views. Once I discovered that I realised anything is possible.
What makes someone socially liberal so we can check if we are or not?
@SeanT I real life I don't hear people getting upset over Jamaican culture, Black History month, and belittle people's concerns as 'playing the race card'. Most people just see others as people, and go about their business.
I would suggest that that you don't hear it does not mean it does not exist, and extrapolating your real life experience as being the majority may be a little optimistic. I hope it is not so, that it is more reflective of reality, but in my own real life I have encountered people I've known decades who I never knew to hold such views, suddenly reveal quite shockingly racist opinions in a manner as though it were perfectly normal, as presumably they must spend most time among people who think the same. You won't find many, probably none, even on here who would say Sikhs are nice but cannot be British, but I've come across people who have said it. I don't recall people on here saying every foreigner should be made to leave Britain, that would be insane right, but I've heard someone say that to me recently.
I don't think those points are reflective of wider society, and they are more extreme than you find on here. I don't think we can assume someone who has the fortune not to come across such idiocy as much in real life, that they find it less extreme, can be stated definitively to be true either, though I hope so.
I'm sure there are racists out there, but they aren't the majority in this country. When referring to my real experiences, I was referring to another group of people that I know and talk politics with. I don't have a site to compare this to, because I only really go this site in regard to political discussion these days.
You earlier said
"This is the only site I go on where people try to normalise their bizarre views on ethnic minorities and their cultures."
How can you say that this site is unusual in that regard if it's the only one you visit that talks about politics which (I would argue) naturally leads to discussion of such issues?
Site as in generally (I visit plently of non-political sites).
OK. Fuck off then?
You can leave with your sneering opinions of us intact; for me, you will have fucked off like the tedious bleating liberal coward you are, so we all win. The solution is: you just fuck off.
Deal?
How is it ok to post stuff like this?
Coz this person just told us we were all evil racists.
Feminists, BLM activists, and anyone who is more leftwing that SouthamObserver are treated as more insane and deluded than a Holocaust denier who is referred to positively, on this site if anything. People are more tolerant of Donald Trump, a man who admits to sexual assault than any self-declared socialist. There is an increasing consensus that common sense views = right wing views. People complain about Sun Readers and Trump voters being sneered at, but that's exactly what people do to do minorities when they even dare to talk about racism.
This is the only site I go on where people try to normalise their bizarre views on ethnic minorities and their cultures. I real life I don't hear people getting upset over Jamaican culture, Black History month, and belittle people's concerns as 'playing the race card'. Most people just see others as people, and go about their business. They don't see ethnic minorities as some weird 'other', that are still under integration surveillance.
And yet you were the poster who saw transgenderism as the primary political issue facing the UK at GE2015.
You would be viewed as bizarre yourself by people in real life.
When did I say that? That's an outright LIE.
Being concerned about something doesn't equal you seeing it as the 'primary issue affecting the UK'.
Ah, so you admit you were concerned about it. So perhaps dial down the temper-tantrum.
You take umbrage that it was the primary issue.
Perhaps you placed it second. Third, at a push.
I don't really put issues I'm concerned about into numbered lists. Maybe that's a right-wing thing?
Feminists, BLM activists, and anyone who is more leftwing that SouthamObserver are treated as more insane and deluded than a Holocaust denier who is referred to positively, on this site if anything. People are more tolerant of Donald Trump, a man who admits to sexual assault than any self-declared socialist. There is an increasing consensus that common sense views = right wing views. People complain about Sun Readers and Trump voters being sneered at, but that's exactly what people do to do minorities when they even dare to talk about racism.
This is the only site I go on where people try to normalise their bizarre views on ethnic minorities and their cultures. I real life I don't hear people getting upset over Jamaican culture, Black History month, and belittle people's concerns as 'playing the race card'. Most people just see others as people, and go about their business. They don't see ethnic minorities as some weird 'other', that are still under integration surveillance.
And yet, Brexit.
CHORTLE
Huh? You, @Sean_F (judging by his response) seem to think Brexit means that the electorate subscribes to the enterity of your views. I actually know people who voted for Brexit and let's just say they don't share PB's 'views'.
@Sean_F Stop thinking everyone who votes Conservative has PB views. Floating voters, are not the same as people who are right-wing for most of their lives. Disgruntled voters who see UKIP as their 'up yours' option, aren't the same as people on this site either.
@Mortimer You and other right-leaning Conservatives 'claim', this site is reasonable. Perhaps it used to be. Now, it's not.
I think the most common viewpoint here is economically right wing, socially liberal, pro-Brexit.
I think public opinion is generally more hardline on social issues than it is here, but more left wing on economics.
I don't think the political centre on here is too far from the political centre of the nation, on the basis of current polls. And there are plenty of lefties here too - Southam, Jonathan, Foxinsox, NPXMP, Tyson, Sandy Rentool, Roger, and so on. I agree though that the libertarian right is probably more represented here than in real life
I voted Labour at GE2015
But, having said that, Sunil does mean "blue"
Sunil, even by this site's standards you are sui generis!
Feminists, BLM activists, and anyone who is more leftwing that SouthamObserver are treated as more insane and deluded than a Holocaust denier who is referred to positively, on this site if anything. People are more tolerant of Donald Trump, a man who admits to sexual assault than any self-declared socialist. There is an increasing consensus that common sense views = right wing views. People complain about Sun Readers and Trump voters being sneered at, but that's exactly what people do to do minorities when they even dare to talk about racism.
This is the only site I go on where people try to normalise their bizarre views on ethnic minorities and their cultures. I real life I don't hear people getting upset over Jamaican culture, Black History month, and belittle people's concerns as 'playing the race card'. Most people just see others as people, and go about their business. They don't see ethnic minorities as some weird 'other', that are still under integration surveillance.
And yet, Brexit.
CHORTLE
Huh? You, @Sean_F (judging by his response) seem to think Brexit means that the electorate subscribes to the enterity of your views. I actually know people who voted for Brexit and let's just say they don't share PB's 'views'.
@Sean_F Stop thinking everyone who votes Conservative has PB views. Floating voters, are not the same as people who are right-wing for most of their lives. Disgruntled voters who see UKIP as their 'up yours' option, aren't the same as people on this site either.
@Mortimer You and other right-leaning Conservatives 'claim', this site is reasonable. Perhaps it used to be. Now, it's not.
I think the most common viewpoint here is economically right wing, socially liberal, pro-Brexit.
I think public opinion is generally more hardline on social issues than it is here, but more left wing on economics.
This site is not socially liberal.
It all depends what you consider socially liberal.
Pretty much everyone assumes that their views are commonplace, often because other Britons are reticent of correcting that impression. It is as true of lefties as it is of kippers.
In reality Britons are a tolerant bunch as far as personal eccentricity goes, up until it starts to get enforced. For multiculturalism to work it requires mutual tolerence andd respect, and in large part this is observed, though there are a number of communities that fail to reciprocate.
Feminists, BLM activists, and anyone who is more leftwing that SouthamObserver are treated as more insane and deluded than a Holocaust denier who is referred to positively, on this site if anything. Peopout Sun Readers and Trump voters being sneered at, but that's exactly what people do to do minorities when they even dare to talk about racism.
This is the only site I go on where people try to normalise their bizarre views on ethnic minorities and their cultures. I real life I don't hear people getting upset over Jamaican culture, Black History month, and belittle people's concerns as 'playing the race card'. Most people just see others as people, and go about their business. They don't see ethnic minorities as some weird 'other', that are still under integration surveillance.
And yet, Brexit.
CHORTLE
Huh? You, @Sean_F (judging by his response) seem to think Brexit means that the electorate subscribes to the enterity of your views. I actually know people who voted for Brexit and let's just say they don't share PB's 'views'.
@Sean_F Stop thinking everyone who votes Conservative has PB views. Floating voters, are not the same as people who are right-wing for most of their lives. Disgruntled voters who see UKIP as their 'up yours' option, aren't the same as people on this site either.
@Mortimer You and other right-leaning Conservatives 'claim', this site is reasonable. Perhaps it used to be. Now, it's not.
I think the most common viewpoint here is economically right wing, socially liberal, pro-Brexit.
I think public opinion is generally more hardline on social issues than it is here, but more left wing on economics.
This site is not socially liberal.
It's more pro-gay marriage than the UK population as a whole, I'd say.
I can't recall anyone supporting the death penalty (and Priti Patel was disowned when she expressed that view).
And there do seem to be a remarkable number of folks here who have foreign partners. (Not including my Scottish wife as "foreign". Yet...)
Supporting gay marriage doesn't in itself make someone socially liberal. Having a foreign wife doesn't really mean anything. There are people out in interracial relationships with racist views. Once I discovered that I realised anything is possible.
White people are more likely to be in interracial relationships than BME people? Or the opposite?
Feminists, BLM activists, and anyone who is more leftwing that SouthamObserver are treated as more insane and deluded than a Holocaust denier who is referred to positively, on this site if anything. People are more tolerant of Donald Trump, a man who admits to sexual assault than any self-declared socialist. There is an increasing consensus that common sense views = right wing views. People complain about Sun Readers and Trump voters being sneered at, but that's exactly what people do to do minorities when they even dare to talk about racism.
This is the only site I go on where people try to normalise their bizarre views on ethnic minorities and their cultures. I real life I don't hear people getting upset over Jamaican culture, Black History month, and belittle people's concerns as 'playing the race card'. Most people just see others as people, and go about their business. They don't see ethnic minorities as some weird 'other', that are still under integration surveillance.
And yet, Brexit.
CHORTLE
Huh? You, @Sean_F (judging by his response) seem to think Brexit means that the electorate subscribes to the enterity of your views. I actually know people who voted for Brexit and let's just say they don't share PB's 'views'.
@Sean_F Stop thinking everyone who votes Conservative has PB views. Floating voters, are not the same as people who are right-wing for most of their lives. Disgruntled voters who see UKIP as their 'up yours' option, aren't the same as people on this site either.
@Mortimer You and other right-leaning Conservatives 'claim', this site is reasonable. Perhaps it used to be. Now, it's not.
I think the most common viewpoint here is economically right wing, socially liberal, pro-Brexit.
I think public opinion is generally more hardline on social issues than it is here, but more left wing on economics.
This site is not socially liberal.
It's socially liberal compared to British voters in general. The voters hate freedom.
Brexit suggests otherwise. How's the weather in Tokyo ?
I think it's more socially liberal that you are. You seem to be infused with prejudice against millions of decent people, who read the Mail or vote Conservative.
I wouldn't worry too much about Richard N's views.....he can be quite ridiculously pompous.....like now......
By the way Apocalypse keep going....I love it when you wind up the usual brigade......
Feminists, BLM activists, and anyone who is more leftwing that SouthamObserver are treated as more insane and deluded than a Holocaust denier who is referred to positively, on this site if anything. People are more tolerant of Donald Trump, a man who admits to sexual assault than any self-declared socialist. There is an increasing consensus that common sense views = right wing views. People complain about Sun Readers and Trump voters being sneered at, but that's exactly what people do to do minorities when they even dare to talk about racism.
This is the only site I go on where people try to normalise their bizarre views on ethnic minorities and their cultures. I real life I don't hear people getting upset over Jamaican culture, Black History month, and belittle people's concerns as 'playing the race card'. Most people just see others as people, and go about their business. They don't see ethnic minorities as some weird 'other', that are still under integration surveillance.
And yet, Brexit.
CHORTLE
Huh? You, @Sean_F (judging by his response) seem to think Brexit means that the electorate subscribes to the enterity of your views. I actually know people who voted for Brexit and let's just say they don't share PB's 'views'.
@Sean_F Stop thinking everyone who votes Conservative has PB views. Floating voters, are not the same as people who are right-wing for most of their lives. Disgruntled voters who see UKIP as their 'up yours' option, aren't the same as people on this site either.
@Mortimer You and other right-leaning Conservatives 'claim', this site is reasonable. Perhaps it used to be. Now, it's not.
I think the most common viewpoint here is economically right wing, socially liberal, pro-Brexit.
I think public opinion is generally more hardline on social issues than it is here, but more left wing on economics.
This site is not socially liberal.
It's socially liberal compared to British voters in general. The voters hate freedom.
Totally off topic, Mr Edmund, but is there a way to make your excellent widget work on an Android mobile?
@IsabelOakeshott: The PM has her head in her hands as Boris says Britain "will make a Titanic success of Brexit." Cries of "it sank!" at Spectator Awards
I think it's more socially liberal that you are. You seem to be infused with prejudice against millions of decent people, who read the Mail or vote Conservative.
I wouldn't worry too much about Richard N's views.....he can be quite ridiculously pompous.....like now......
By the way Apocalypse keep going....I love it when you wind up the usual brigade......
Huh? You, @Sean_F (judging by his response) seem to think Brexit means that the electorate subscribes to the enterity of your views. I actually know people who voted for Brexit and let's just say they don't share PB's 'views'.
PBce.
They are a united force when it comes to talking about terrible Muslims, feminists, Jamaicans, and dismissing racism/sexism as 'playing a card' and 'PC Brigade'. Let's face it: they are a united force when it comes to sneering at demographics which they know are unlikely to vote Conservative/UKIP, and so clearly their concerns and lives don't matter.
On this one you are incorrect. As I said, some Lab and LD posters voted Leave too (PClipp for one). I very much doubt they sneer at anyone who does not vote Tory or UKIP (I've never voted for either, and I voted Leave too). I believe something like a third of LDs voted leave?
The political centre here is definitely much more right than centre or left, but Brexit is not an issue on which one can utilise in the Tory/UKIP vs others fight, even if there are those who would like to, for and against. It may seem like that sometimes, but in fact some of the most vicious stuff has been blue on blue commentary, not surprising as there are more of them.
As I believe you are trying to say, just because people say they are the majority view does not mean they are. As a corollary to that, just because you say people are of a unified view does not mean they are.
I think it's a sign of the centre of gravity on this site that liberals and (very) moderate labourites are described as lefties. Back in the day it was folk like Dennis and Corbyn that were lefties.
Left and right are not adequate terms for describing complex political views. As all know, UKIP takes on many lefty policy ideas, while still being right wing, and individuals much more complicated and idiosyncratic. Republican Tories, Leaver Lib Dems, the odd configurations are endless.
Feminists, BLM activists, and anyone who is more leftwing that SouthamObserver are treated as more insane and deluded than a Holocaust denier who is referred to positively, on this site if anything. People are more tolerant of Donald Trump, a man who admits to sexual assault than any self-declared socialist. There is an increasing consensus that common sense views = right wing views. People complain about Sun Readers and Trump voters being sneered at, but that's exactly what people do to do minorities when they even dare to talk about racism.
This is the only site I go on where people try to normalise their bizarre views on ethnic minorities and their cultures. I real life I don't hear people getting upset over Jamaican culture, Black History month, and belittle people's concerns as 'playing the race card'. Most people just see others as people, and go about their business. They don't see ethnic minorities as some weird 'other', that are still under integration surveillance.
And yet you were the poster who saw transgenderism as the primary political issue facing the UK at GE2015.
You would be viewed as bizarre yourself by people in real life.
When did I say that? That's an outright LIE.
Being concerned about something doesn't equal you seeing it as the 'primary issue affecting the UK'.
Ah, so you admit you were concerned about it. So perhaps dial down the temper-tantrum.
You take umbrage that it was the primary issue.
Perhaps you placed it second. Third, at a push.
I don't really put issues I'm concerned about into numbered lists. Maybe that's a right-wing thing?
Huh? You, @Sean_F (judging by his response) seem to think Brexit means that the electorate subscribes to the enterity of your views. I actually know people who voted for Brexit and let's just say they don't share PB's 'views'.
@Sean_F Stop thinking everyone who votes Conservative has PB views. Floating voters, are not the same as people who are right-wing for most of their lives. Disgruntled voters who see UKIP as their 'up yours' option, aren't the same as people on this site either.
@Mortimer You and other right-leaning Conservatives 'claim', this site is reasonable. Perhaps it used to be. Now, it's not.
I think the most common viewpoint here is economically right wing, socially liberal, pro-Brexit.
I think public opinion is generally more hardline on social issues than it is here, but more left wing on economics.
I don't think the political centre on here is too far from the political centre of the nation, on the basis of current polls. And there are plenty of lefties here too - Southam, Jonathan, Foxinsox, NPXMP, Tyson, Sandy Rentool, Roger, and so on. I agree though that the libertarian right is probably more represented here than in real life
I think it's a sign of the centre of gravity on this site that liberals and (very) moderate labourites are described as lefties. Back in the day it was folk like Dennis and Corbyn that were lefties.
I think all the people listed above are Labour voters, and voted Labour in 2015 (apologies if I'm misrepresenting anyone). On the basis that only around 30% of voters did so, this would put them some way to the left of centre. If I was to include Liberals, I could add Stodge, Yellow Submarine and of course Mike Smithson.
If you sincerely believe that the BAME community is pro-gay, unified in their welcoming acceptance of alternative religion and wholly endorse eastern european immigration then you are, putting it kindly, misguided.
As someone who is a part of the BAME community, I think I know a bit about what people within it think. I've talked politics with people from various walks of life, certainly not just those 22 and under. I've also talked about homophobia within the Black community (and other ethnic minority communities) on this site too. Although, given that most ethnic minorities voted IN, I doubt they take as much umbrage with EU immigration as the rest of the population.
@PeterMannionMP: Overheard in SW1: 'WTF did IDS get a @spectator award for?' -His resignation 'Oh well, yes, spose that worked for everyone...' #specawards
What ARE you talking about. This is just about the only site where you can come, and announce yourself as Corbynite, BNP voter, feminazi, Thatcherite, Holocaust denier (within reason) Scot Nat, Cornish nationalist, terrible drunk, millionaire gay lawyer, quasi-Marxist, Nick Palmer ex MP, mad cat owner, Tory, shady businessman, insane train geek, and even ageing bald europhile Lib Dem, and you will be given a hearing, and a good discussion, until and unless you say something TRULY outrageous. Or you go on about Scottish subsamples.
This is the most tolerant and generous of blogs. All can come and all can rant. And they really really do. I defy you to find a saner blog with a wider ranger of commenters.
Spot on, Mr. T. This site is really like the public bar in a decent pub full of all sorts of people and, at its best, several different conversations going on at the same time. This evening for example we have had the usual USA election chatter interspersed with economic data, the merits of Northern Ireland and, earlier, recipes for Christmas puddings, plus some offbeat views on what constitutes Lutheranism. Alas for once we have had nothing on engineering, cricket or trains.
Goes off to consider which of SeanT's categories I fit into. Terrible drunk? Not really. Mad cat owner? Possibly I suppose but really none of them fit terribly well. Could we not have a new category of a mild-mannered, sort of elderly person who is a bit to the right on some issues and a bit to the left on others who likes cats (and dogs) and a drink, is a bit of an English nationalist but colour blind and who is jolly keen on engineering, quite likes watching cricket, cooking/eating well and playing computer games.
I think it's more socially liberal that you are. You seem to be infused with prejudice against millions of decent people, who read the Mail or vote Conservative.
I wouldn't worry too much about Richard N's views.....he can be quite ridiculously pompous.....like now......
By the way Apocalypse keep going....I love it when you wind up the usual brigade......
I think it's more socially liberal that you are. You seem to be infused with prejudice against millions of decent people, who read the Mail or vote Conservative.
I wouldn't worry too much about Richard N's views.....he can be quite ridiculously pompous.....like now......
By the way Apocalypse keep going....I love it when you wind up the usual brigade......
Good evening, tyson
You......you know exactly what you are doing......Arghhhhh.......
Problem is for China Trump with his finger on the nuclear button is not someone you want to test too far
True and that is why Trump is so dangerous. Like we saw in the debate where he was like a child because he did not like the rules of the game. He wanted to take the metaphorical ball away to stop the game. The problem with nuclear weapons in any localised conflict would likely become a global exchange = game over planet earth.
Do you mean the exchange of nuclear warheads in an initially localised conflict between the US and China, or do you literally mean any use of nuclear weapons in any local conflict? Because in the latter case there are many scenarios which would not lead to a global exchange of nuclear warheads between countries that are among the six that have got hundreds or thousands of them; and even in the former case it might not happen. Spheres of influence change. Empires fall. There won't be "two Chinas" forever.
Specifically, the US and China in this scenario. If someone like Trump was mad enough to use nuclear weapons would they want to take Russia out as well? The reason being if the US had some collateral damage in the exchange, they might want to diminish Russia's capability as a power as well. Where does it end?
If Trump acted on a desire to take Russia out, then certainly there would be a massive exchange between the two biggest nuclear stockpilers, although I'd like to think the US brass would remove the nutter first. Sometimes there is a good case for a military coup. More likely is a limited nuclear war between Russia and NATO in Europe or one in the Middle East. I was expecting Trump to shift to a hard line against Russia before the election, but so far he hasn't.
Contrary to movies, there is no 'two man rule' for the presidential authorisation. It's only used in the silo/sub by the commanders to verify the order itself.
I know there isn't. But someone can point a gun at the president's head and put him under arrest. That's why I said "military coup" rather than "refusal to be the second man".
A united force that is now in the political ascendancy, after your form of identity politics has had a good run of over 20 years.
Get used to it.
My form of 'identity politics' if you want to call it that, is continuing. People like you don't get to decide how the BAME community see themselves. So you get used to that, especially since your lot practice identity politics when it's demographics that agree with your POV ('white working class', 'white van man').
Huh? You, @Sean_F (judging by his response) seem to think Brexit means that the electorate subscribes to the enterity of your views. I actually know people who voted for Brexit and let's just say they don't share PB's 'views'.
@Sean_F Stop thinking everyone who votes Conservative has PB views. Floating voters, are not the same as people who are right-wing for most of their lives. Disgruntled voters who see UKIP as their 'up yours' option, aren't the same as people on this site either.
@Mortimer You and other right-leaning Conservatives 'claim', this site is reasonable. Perhaps it used to be. Now, it's not.
I think the most common viewpoint here is economically right wing, socially liberal, pro-Brexit.
I think public opinion is generally more hardline on social issues than it is here, but more left wing on economics.
I don't think the political centre on here is too far from the political centre of the nation, on the basis of current polls. And there are plenty of lefties here too - Southam, Jonathan, Foxinsox, NPXMP, Tyson, Sandy Rentool, Roger, and so on. I agree though that the libertarian right is probably more represented here than in real life
I think it's a sign of the centre of gravity on this site that liberals and (very) moderate labourites are described as lefties. Back in the day it was folk like Dennis and Corbyn that were lefties.
I think all the people listed above are Labour voters, and voted Labour in 2015 (apologies if I'm misrepresenting anyone). On the basis that only around 30% of voters did so, this would put them some way to the left of centre. If I was to include Liberals, I could add Stodge, Yellow Submarine and of course Mike Smithson.
I think you'll find Dr Fox is a liberal, as am I although I'm probably on the left of the party. I'm not sure Stodge is a liberal democrat these days.
She's a bit like Ed Miliband, wall to wall cliches and a lack of specificity. She wants her supporters to feel she's for something without spelling it out. At least with Trump you know what he stands for; giant wall between the US and Mexico, no Muslims, friend of Putin.
She's a bit like Ed Miliband, wall to wall cliches and a lack of specificity. She wants her supporters to feel she's for something without spelling it out. At least with Trump you know what he stands for; giant wall between the US and Mexico, no Muslims, friend of Putin.
She's also quoted herself as saying something, on her on Twitter account. What?
@SeanT I real life I don't hear people getting upset over Jamaican culture, Black History month, and belittle people's concerns as 'playing the race card'. Most people just see others as people, and go about their business.
I would sulife, that they find it less extreme, can be stated definitively to be true either, though I hope so.
I'm sure there are racists out there, but they aren't the majority in this country. When referring to my real experiences, I was referring to another group of people that I know and talk politics with. I don't have a site to compare this to, because I only really go this site in regard to political discussion these days.
You earlier said
"This is the only site I go on where people try to normalise their bizarre views on ethnic minorities and their cultures."
How can you say that this site is unusual in that regard if it's the only one you visit that talks about politics which (I would argue) naturally leads to discussion of such issues?
Site as in generally (I visit plently of non-political sites).
OK. Fuck off then?
You can leave with your sneering opinions of us intact; for me, you will have fucked off like the tedious bleating liberal coward you are, so we all win. The solution is: you just fuck off.
Deal?
How is it ok to post stuff like this?
Coz this person just told us we were all evil racists.
"Fuck off" is pretty mild in response.
You're hounding people off the site.
It's a strategy you've used time and time again.
Look, just LEAVE if you don't like it. Just go. Because this is my strategy, and everyone understands it. I simply hound people off the site. I drive them away, And if you don't like it, you know where the EXIT door is.
If you sincerely believe that the BAME community is pro-gay, unified in their welcoming acceptance of alternative religion and wholly endorse eastern european immigration then you are, putting it kindly, misguided.
As someone who is a part of the BAME community, I think I know a bit about what people within it think. I've talked politics with people from various walks of life, certainly not just those 22 and under. I've also talked about homophobia within the Black community (and other ethnic minority communities) on this site too. Although, given that most ethnic minorities voted IN, I doubt they take as much umbrage with EU immigration as the rest of the population.
Are there any reliable stats on how different ethnicities voted in the referendum? ISTR ethnic minorities being reported as rather less keen on the EU than was expected.
"Tonight I’ve bought Clinton ECVs at 302 because I think that the polling and markets have over reacted to Friday’s FBI move."
I think it is worth reflecting that Clinton's estimated vote percentage (538, polls only) has dropped by precisely 1% since the FBI intervention, to 48.6%. We are five days on from that now, and Nate Silver reckoned the model would be showing the full effect after 5-7 days. I doubt the FBI will succeed in delivering much more than that 1% to the Trump cause.
Before the FBI intervention, Clinton's rating had dropped by just 0.2% from its peak of 49.8% at around the time of the third debate. The narrowing of the race during that period was almost entirely due to a 1% increase in Trump's rating, which coincided with a 1% decrease in Gary Johnson's. Probably in retrospect that shouldn't have been unexpected, but with Johnson now down to a little more than half his peak, I wonder whether there is much more there for Trump to squeeze.
Clinton's lead, according to 538, now stands at 3.5%. I wonder if it's likely to drop much below that by polling day. If it doesn't, we are back to Trump needing a large systematic error in the polls (albeit one only half as big as he would have needed at the height of Clinton's dominance).
Feminists, BLM activists, and anyone who is more leftwing that SouthamObserver are treated as more insane and deluded than a Holocaust denier who is referred to positively, on this site if anything. People are more tolerant of Donald Trump, a man who admits to sexual assault than any self-declared socialist. There is an increasing consensus that common sense views = right wing views. People complain about Sun Readers and Trump voters being sneered at, but that's exactly what people do to do minorities when they even dare to talk about racism.
This is the only site I go on where people try to normalise their bizarre views on ethnic minorities and their cultures. I real life I don't hear people getting upset over Jamaican culture, Black History month, and belittle people's concerns as 'playing the race card'. Most people just see others as people, and go about their business. They don't see ethnic minorities as some weird 'other', that are still under integration surveillance.
And yet you were the poster who saw transgenderism as the primary political issue facing the UK at GE2015.
You would be viewed as bizarre yourself by people in real life.
When did I say that? That's an outright LIE.
Being concerned about something doesn't equal you seeing it as the 'primary issue affecting the UK'.
Ah, so you admit you were concerned about it. So perhaps dial down the temper-tantrum.
You take umbrage that it was the primary issue.
Perhaps you placed it second. Third, at a push.
I don't really put issues I'm concerned about into numbered lists. Maybe that's a right-wing thing?
Would probably be hard to keep up wouldn't it?
I'm sure RT is on right now where your master Putin is putting his favourite things about Donald Trump into a list. I'm sure it'll be a great watch for you.
I think it's more socially liberal that you are. You seem to be infused with prejudice against millions of decent people, who read the Mail or vote Conservative.
I wouldn't worry too much about Richard N's views.....he can be quite ridiculously pompous.....like now......
By the way Apocalypse keep going....I love it when you wind up the usual brigade......
Problem is for China Trump with his finger on the nuclear button is not someone you want to test too far
True and that is why Trump is so dangerous. Like we saw in the debate where he was like a child because he did not like the rules of the game. He wanted to take the metaphorical ball away to stop the game. The problem with nuclear weapons in any localised conflict would likely become a global exchange = game over planet earth.
Do you mean the exchange of nuclear warheads in an initially localised conflict between the US and China, or do you literally mean any use of nuclear weapons in any local conflict? Because in the latter case there are many scenarios which would not lead to a global exchange of nuclear warheads between countries that are among the six that have got hundreds or thousands of them; and even in the former case it might not happen. Spheres of influence change. Empires fall. There won't be "two Chinas" forever.
Specifically, the US and China in this scenario. If someone like Trump was mad enough to use nuclear weapons would they want to take Russia out as well? The reason being if the US had some collateral damage in the exchange, they might want to diminish Russia's capability as a power as well. Where does it end?
If Trump acted on a desire to take Russia out, then certainly there would be a massive exchange between the two biggest nuclear stockpilers, although I'd like to think the US brass would remove the nutter first. Sometimes there is a good case for a military coup. More likely is a limited nuclear war between Russia and NATO in Europe or one in the Middle East. I was expecting Trump to shift to a hard line against Russia before the election, but so far he hasn't.
Contrary to movies, there is no 'two man rule' for the presidential authorisation. It's only used in the silo/sub by the commanders to verify the order itself.
I know there isn't. But someone can point a gun at the president's head and put him under arrest. That's why I said "military coup" rather than "refusal to be the second man".
Oh, sorry. I didn't intend for my post to come across as being in disagreement with yours, just adding my two cents!
Huh? You, @Sean_F (judging by his response) seem to think Brexit means that the electorate subscribes to the enterity of your views. I actually know people who voted for Brexit and let's just say they don't share PB's 'views'.
PBce.
They are a united force when it comes to talking about terrible Muslims, feminists, Jamaicans, and dismissing racism/sexism as 'playing a card' and 'PC Brigade'. Let's face it: they are a united force when it comes to sneering at demographics which they know are unlikely to vote Conservative/UKIP, and so clearly their concerns and lives don't matter.
On this one you are incorrect. As I said, some Lab and LD posters voted Leave too (PClipp for one). I very much doubt they sneer at anyone who does not vote Tory or UKIP (I've never voted for either, and I voted Leave too). I believe something like a third of LDs voted leave?
The political centre here is definitely much more right than centre or left, but Brexit is not an issue on which one can utilise in the Tory/UKIP vs others fight, even if there are those who would like to, for and against. It may seem like that sometimes, but in fact some of the most vicious stuff has been blue on blue commentary, not surprising as there are more of them.
As I believe you are trying to say, just because people say they are the majority view does not mean they are. As a corollary to that, just because you say people are of a unified view does not mean they are.
I think it's a sign of the centre of gravity on this site that liberals and (very) moderate labourites are described as lefties. Back in the day it was folk like Dennis and Corbyn that were lefties.
Left and right are not adequate terms for describing complex political views. As all know, UKIP takes on many lefty policy ideas, while still being right wing, and individuals much more complicated and idiosyncratic. Republican Tories, Leaver Lib Dems, the odd configurations are endless.
I was thinking of the Brexit Right, which predominates on this site. I know left-wingers who voted Brexit, they don't see the world the way PBers do.
She's a bit like Ed Miliband, wall to wall cliches and a lack of specificity. She wants her supporters to feel she's for something without spelling it out. At least with Trump you know what he stands for; giant wall between the US and Mexico, no Muslims, friend of Putin.
She's also quoted herself as saying something, on her on Twitter account. What?
I think it's more socially liberal that you are. You seem to be infused with prejudice against millions of decent people, who read the Mail or vote Conservative.
I wouldn't worry too much about Richard N's views.....he can be quite ridiculously pompous.....like now......
By the way Apocalypse keep going....I love it when you wind up the usual brigade......
Good evening, tyson
You......you know exactly what you are doing......Arghhhhh.......
Huh? You, @Sean_F (judging by his response) seem to think Brexit means that the electorate subscribes to the enterity of your views. I actually know people who voted for Brexit and let's just say they don't share PB's 'views'.
@Sean_F Stop thinking everyone who votes Conservative has PB views. Floating voters, are not the same as people who are right-wing for most of their lives. Disgruntled voters who see UKIP as their 'up yours' option, aren't the same as people on this site either.
@Mortimer You and other right-leaning Conservatives 'claim', this site is reasonable. Perhaps it used to be. Now, it's not.
I think the most common viewpoint here is economically right wing, socially liberal, pro-Brexit.
I think public opinion is generally more hardline on social issues than it is here, but more left wing on economics.
I don't think the political centre on here is too far from the political centre of the nation, on the basis of current polls. And there are plenty of lefties here too - Southam, Jonathan, Foxinsox, NPXMP, Tyson, Sandy Rentool, Roger, and so on. I agree though that the libertarian right is probably more represented here than in real life
I think it's a sign of the centre of gravity on this site that liberals and (very) moderate labourites are described as lefties. Back in the day it was folk like Dennis and Corbyn that were lefties.
I think all the people listed above are Labour voters, and voted Labour in 2015 (apologies if I'm misrepresenting anyone). On the basis that only around 30% of voters did so, this would put them some way to the left of centre. If I was to include Liberals, I could add Stodge, Yellow Submarine and of course Mike Smithson.
I think you'll find Dr Fox is a liberal, as am I although I'm probably on the left of the party. I'm not sure Stodge is a liberal democrat these days.
Apologies Dr. Fox - I may have confused you with Big John Owls.
O/T - I saw this linked to. It's the kind of thing Amber Rudd must have had in mind: An interactive Google map showing companies in American dependent on H1B immigrant labour.
Comments
If so, I think they're overdoing the farce this year.
So, I think these are obstacles to full integration. But, generally, they have integrated well.
I think public opinion is generally more hardline on social issues than it is here, but more left wing on economics.
https://twitter.com/MichaelPDeacon/status/793946626238902275
I suggest you go and read the excellent afternoon thread from 23rd June.
If you sincerely believe that the BAME community is pro-gay, unified in their welcoming acceptance of alternative religion and wholly endorse eastern european immigration then you are, putting it kindly, misguided.
Meanwhile Leicester City are the only CL team not to have conceded a goal.
Glad I didn't travel to Copenhagen to watch that though!
I think Corbyn would make a terrible PM, and practically everyone here would agree, left and right. And yet millions would vote for him. Even the most extreme right wing Brexiteer on here would probably not support deporting all Polish people. But I'd bet millions would vote for it.
Our online travails take us to more extreme and eccentric political positions than we generally find among our own peers in real life, but I don't personally think there is as great a divergence between that and wider society as we'd like to think sometimes.
Good night all, back to lurking for me. One day political discourse will be fun again, rather than hateful, right? Play nice.
I like the bloke anyway. He's conducted himself with dignity and class, which in modern America is quite an achievement it seems.
You take umbrage that it was the primary issue.
Perhaps you placed it second. Third, at a push.
Oh, for a ticket.
I agree though that the libertarian right is probably more represented here than in real life
I am so viscerally opposed to religion... I could be particularly abusive about Islam, so much so that it would make seanT appear to be a Saint...but I don't go down there. I stop myself...I'd have to have a pop at all the other whacky doctrines too.
Anyway, over the years I have learnt to be more guarded and to keep my religious views to myself (except tonight...you have to forgive the odd slip).
I can't recall anyone supporting the death penalty (and Priti Patel was disowned when she expressed that view).
And there do seem to be a remarkable number of folks here who have foreign partners. (Not including my Scottish wife as "foreign". Yet...)
Black people didn't choose to be defined by their skin colour; years of racism have done that for them. People aren't just going to forget years of shared experiences because a couple of people on PB have decided that we live in a post-racist society.
Get used to it.
I find it harder to get screamingly mad at some idiot Nat, right winger or Corbynite if I learn they also like the same TV shows as me or like cricket. Though I've only gotten screamingly mad on a few occasions, and two of those were at you, case proven I guess.
"'Jane Doe has received numerous threats today,' [her lawyer Lisa Bloom] told the assembled journalists and TV cameras. 'She has decided she is too afraid to show her face... She is in terrible fear.'"
But, having said that, Sunil does mean "blue"
It's a strategy you've used time and time again.
Pretty much everyone assumes that their views are commonplace, often because other Britons are reticent of correcting that impression. It is as true of lefties as it is of kippers.
In reality Britons are a tolerant bunch as far as personal eccentricity goes, up until it starts to get enforced. For multiculturalism to work it requires mutual tolerence andd respect, and in large part this is observed, though there are a number of communities that fail to reciprocate.
By the way Apocalypse keep going....I love it when you wind up the usual brigade......
Good evening everyone.
Why is the Prime Minister greeting Ozzy while dressed as a builder?
Yes, I just wrote that sentence. No, I have no idea either.
The political centre here is definitely much more right than centre or left, but Brexit is not an issue on which one can utilise in the Tory/UKIP vs others fight, even if there are those who would like to, for and against. It may seem like that sometimes, but in fact some of the most vicious stuff has been blue on blue commentary, not surprising as there are more of them.
As I believe you are trying to say, just because people say they are the majority view does not mean they are. As a corollary to that, just because you say people are of a unified view does not mean they are. Left and right are not adequate terms for describing complex political views. As all know, UKIP takes on many lefty policy ideas, while still being right wing, and individuals much more complicated and idiosyncratic. Republican Tories, Leaver Lib Dems, the odd configurations are endless.
If I was to include Liberals, I could add Stodge, Yellow Submarine and of course Mike Smithson.
https://twitter.com/HillaryClinton/status/793949946290569216
'WTF did IDS get a @spectator award for?'
-His resignation
'Oh well, yes, spose that worked for everyone...'
#specawards
Goes off to consider which of SeanT's categories I fit into. Terrible drunk? Not really. Mad cat owner? Possibly I suppose but really none of them fit terribly well. Could we not have a new category of a mild-mannered, sort of elderly person who is a bit to the right on some issues and a bit to the left on others who likes cats (and dogs) and a drink, is a bit of an English nationalist but colour blind and who is jolly keen on engineering, quite likes watching cricket, cooking/eating well and playing computer games.
Now whilst the traditional response is "you can collect your refund on the way out", the meaning is no different.
PB's loss.
I think it is worth reflecting that Clinton's estimated vote percentage (538, polls only) has dropped by precisely 1% since the FBI intervention, to 48.6%. We are five days on from that now, and Nate Silver reckoned the model would be showing the full effect after 5-7 days. I doubt the FBI will succeed in delivering much more than that 1% to the Trump cause.
Before the FBI intervention, Clinton's rating had dropped by just 0.2% from its peak of 49.8% at around the time of the third debate. The narrowing of the race during that period was almost entirely due to a 1% increase in Trump's rating, which coincided with a 1% decrease in Gary Johnson's. Probably in retrospect that shouldn't have been unexpected, but with Johnson now down to a little more than half his peak, I wonder whether there is much more there for Trump to squeeze.
Clinton's lead, according to 538, now stands at 3.5%. I wonder if it's likely to drop much below that by polling day. If it doesn't, we are back to Trump needing a large systematic error in the polls (albeit one only half as big as he would have needed at the height of Clinton's dominance).
Heh
http://cis.org/sites/cis.org/files/Full-Screen-Map-H1B-Dependent-Employers.html