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Am I right in thinking there is no early voting in Pennsylvania? That is not the best of news for Clinton since the momentum at the moment is towards Trump, albeit not from a position of strength.JackW said:
Indeed.DavidL said:
It would have to be Colorado and Nevada with the latter looking vanishingly unlikely. And he would need FL, Az, NC, Iowa, and Ohio as well of course.JackW said:
In theory possibly .... but not in practice. Which two viable states make up for a Trump Pennsylvania loss?FF43 said:
Not QUITE the case. Trump can win if he overturns two states with similar Clinton margins to those those she has with Pennsylvania. The point is, he needs to do 5% better than his current average position in the polls, then a whole bunch of states will fall to him.JackW said:
FOP DENIER !!!!!!!!!peter_from_putney said:It seems to me very likely that whoever wins both Florida & Ohio will be the next POTUS. Perhaps that's an over-simplification, but it's the way I see it.
There is no viable route for Trump without all elements of FOP ..
He still needs a swing of at least 3-4% to be in the game. Looks unlikely.
Colorado and Nevada are being closed down. Clinton's early scores are encouraging. She's swinging through there in the next few days and has a visit to Arizona being planned too.0 -
This and his Europhilia confirms he is a closet Lib Dem.PlatoSaid said:Umm
Ben
Micheal Heseltine choked his Mum's dog to death.
https://t.co/iesOmerMQA https://t.co/yK5muUmuWw0 -
There's rumours swirling of her drinking after a couple of references in Wikileaks to sobering her up mid afternoon and several strange media appearances inc Why Aren't I 50pts Ahead.weejonnie said:
Since Clinton has a proven record for embroiling the USA in wars I think this is hypocritical of her - but she's a Democrat so that's not unexpected.619 said:0 -
so from a 12 point clinton lead to a 1 point Trump one?JackW said:National Tracker - Langer Research/ABC - Sample 1,128 - 26-30 Oct
Clinton 45 .. Trump 46
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-leads-clinton-point-poll-enthusiasm-declines/story?id=43199459
Something seems off about THAT much of a swing0 -
Mr. Vale2, that's the Corbyn effect.0
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Winston Churchill famously ran up debts all over London and would occasionally be bailed out by various shady financiers.Theuniondivvie said:
Yep, it's a complete slur to suggest that Trump isn't just as likely to bilk a service provider who had done a good job for him.edmundintokyo said:
TBF the "doesn't like the results he's been getting" angle is pure speculation.Jobabob said:
Indeed. The mug is plain wrong.CarlottaVance said:
According to American English dictionaries....'Madame' refers to a married French lady...TheWhiteRabbit said:
According to some random person who wrote in to the Guardian.CarlottaVance said:
No. 'Madam'.not_on_fire said:Surely it will be Mrs President not Madame President? Male presidents are called Mr President, not Sir President
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mr._President_(title)
Right...
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/madame
P.S. Check out Carlotta's early post this morning about Trump failing to pay his pollster – he owes this guy about $700k or something. Doesn't like the results he has been getting, won't pay. Required reading.0 -
Hilary will probably leave the codes written on a receipt in her purse - she's hopeless with security.619 said:
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Three pointers to the LA Tracker being a tad crap :Jobabob said:weejonnie said:
It's the independents that are important - I do note that the LA Poll Tracker now has Trump +3.6 - even the change in the vote of the single AA won't account for that.SimonStClare said:https://twitter.com/johnnyvalues01/status/793402003825299456
Partisan split alive and kicking in the US of A.
Yes, that's the highest Trump score since, um, 3 October. It really is shit or bust for the LA Times tracker...
1. They have Trump winning the 18-34 demographic
2. They have Trump winning 25% more Hispanic voters than Romney
3. The gender gap is +7.4 in Trump's favour
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So to recap, she's a demon from hell in physical form, with a drink problem, a drug problem and about a dozen different terminal diseases. Did I miss anything?PlatoSaid said:
There's rumours swirling of her drinking after a couple of references in Wikileaks to sobering her up mid afternoon and several strange media appearances inc Why Aren't I 50pts Ahead.weejonnie said:
Since Clinton has a proven record for embroiling the USA in wars I think this is hypocritical of her - but she's a Democrat so that's not unexpected.619 said:0 -
619 said:
Hillary's the national security threat. She's been grossly negligent with classified material and may well be compromised by US enemies. Hillary Danger.619 said:0 -
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They shoot dogs, don't they?TGOHF said:
This and his Europhilia confirms he is a closet Lib Dem.PlatoSaid said:Umm
Ben
Micheal Heseltine choked his Mum's dog to death.
https://t.co/iesOmerMQA https://t.co/yK5muUmuWw0 -
Another triumph for the progressive alliance of Jezza Corbyn.
https://twitter.com/MattSingh_/status/7934134574712340480 -
Edit - Beaten by Dr Spyn0
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Don't forget Marxist rape enabler and expeditor of murders!Chris said:
So to recap, she's a demon from hell in physical form, with a drink problem, a drug problem and about a dozen different terminal diseases. Did I miss anything?PlatoSaid said:
There's rumours swirling of her drinking after a couple of references in Wikileaks to sobering her up mid afternoon and several strange media appearances inc Why Aren't I 50pts Ahead.weejonnie said:
Since Clinton has a proven record for embroiling the USA in wars I think this is hypocritical of her - but she's a Democrat so that's not unexpected.619 said:0 -
Germans saying CNN tipped off HRC's team on likely questions before the TV debates
http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/wahl-in-amerika/wikileaks-enthuellt-moeglichen-clinton-skandal-in-us-wahl-2016-14506951.html0 -
Plato will be up in 1... 2... 3... to tell you why that is exactly how it should be.JackW said:
Three pointers to the LA Tracker being a tad crap :Jobabob said:weejonnie said:
It's the independents that are important - I do note that the LA Poll Tracker now has Trump +3.6 - even the change in the vote of the single AA won't account for that.SimonStClare said:https://twitter.com/johnnyvalues01/status/793402003825299456
Partisan split alive and kicking in the US of A.
Yes, that's the highest Trump score since, um, 3 October. It really is shit or bust for the LA Times tracker...
1. They have Trump winning the 18-34 demographic
2. They have Trump winning 25% more Hispanic voters than Romney
3. The gender gap is +7.4 in Trump's favour0 -
How long before the parliamentary Labour party start another process of blowing their own feet off again ?0
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Pennsylvania has absentee ballot early voting but the criteria are quite strict. The latest PA poll is Clinton +11.weejonnie said:
Am I right in thinking there is no early voting in Pennsylvania? That is not the best of news for Clinton since the momentum at the moment is towards Trump, albeit not from a position of strength.JackW said:
Indeed.DavidL said:
It would have to be Colorado and Nevada with the latter looking vanishingly unlikely. And he would need FL, Az, NC, Iowa, and Ohio as well of course.JackW said:
In theory possibly .... but not in practice. Which two viable states make up for a Trump Pennsylvania loss?FF43 said:
Not QUITE the case. Trump can win if he overturns two states with similar Clinton margins to those those she has with Pennsylvania. The point is, he needs to do 5% better than his current average position in the polls, then a whole bunch of states will fall to him.JackW said:
FOP DENIER !!!!!!!!!peter_from_putney said:It seems to me very likely that whoever wins both Florida & Ohio will be the next POTUS. Perhaps that's an over-simplification, but it's the way I see it.
There is no viable route for Trump without all elements of FOP ..
He still needs a swing of at least 3-4% to be in the game. Looks unlikely.
Colorado and Nevada are being closed down. Clinton's early scores are encouraging. She's swinging through there in the next few days and has a visit to Arizona being planned too.0 -
Chris said:
So to recap, she's a demon from hell in physical form, with a drink problem, a drug problem and about a dozen different terminal diseases. Did I miss anything?PlatoSaid said:
There's rumours swirling of her drinking after a couple of references in Wikileaks to sobering her up mid afternoon and several strange media appearances inc Why Aren't I 50pts Ahead.weejonnie said:
Since Clinton has a proven record for embroiling the USA in wars I think this is hypocritical of her - but she's a Democrat so that's not unexpected.619 said:
Presumably you have already priced in that she is an actual lizard?
http://img.wonkette.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/hillary-lizard.jpg0 -
Yes, CNN has fired the Clinton surrogate that worked there. Anyone who still believes that the debates in the primaries and for POTUS weren't fixed in favour of her is kidding themselves.Alanbrooke said:
Germans saying CNN tipped off HRC's team on likely questions before the TV debates
http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/wahl-in-amerika/wikileaks-enthuellt-moeglichen-clinton-skandal-in-us-wahl-2016-14506951.html0 -
TGOHF said:
Hilary will probably leave the codes written on a receipt in her purse - she's hopeless with security.619 said:
Who's Hilary? You could at least do her the courtesy of spelling her name correctly.0 -
Silver also makes the point that Wisconsin has in-person early voting, so any effect of the FBI intervention may be diminished there.JackW said:
Again in theory yes but it ain't happening.Chris said:
Nate Silver looked at this a couple of days ago, and suggested a scenario in which Trump could just reach 270 by winning Wisconsin and Michigan, even without North Carolina and Nevada:JackW said:
In theory possibly .... but not in practice. Which two viable states make up for a Trump Pennsylvania loss?
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/election-update-what-if-clinton-wins-north-carolina-and-loses-pennsylvania/?ex_cid=2016-forecast0 -
the Germans are saying it was fixed against Bernie SandersMaxPB said:
Yes, CNN has fired the Clinton surrogate that worked there. Anyone who still believes that the debates in the primaries and for POTUS weren't fixed in favour of her is kidding themselves.Alanbrooke said:
Germans saying CNN tipped off HRC's team on likely questions before the TV debates
http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/wahl-in-amerika/wikileaks-enthuellt-moeglichen-clinton-skandal-in-us-wahl-2016-14506951.html0 -
The Manchurian Candidate?MikeSmithson said:
So you support Mr Putin's puppy?MonikerDiCanio said:The numbers suggest the Hillary's popularity with women is a figament of the male imagination. Reassuringly, women hate her as well.
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538 has Clinton 81% or 82% chance depending on which of the models you take.JackW said:
Pennsylvania has absentee ballot early voting but the criteria are quite strict. The latest PA poll is Clinton +11.weejonnie said:
Am I right in thinking there is no early voting in Pennsylvania? That is not the best of news for Clinton since the momentum at the moment is towards Trump, albeit not from a position of strength.JackW said:
Indeed.DavidL said:
It would have to be Colorado and Nevada with the latter looking vanishingly unlikely. And he would need FL, Az, NC, Iowa, and Ohio as well of course.JackW said:
In theory possibly .... but not in practice. Which two viable states make up for a Trump Pennsylvania loss?FF43 said:
Not QUITE the case. Trump can win if he overturns two states with similar Clinton margins to those those she has with Pennsylvania. The point is, he needs to do 5% better than his current average position in the polls, then a whole bunch of states will fall to him.JackW said:
FOP DENIER !!!!!!!!!peter_from_putney said:It seems to me very likely that whoever wins both Florida & Ohio will be the next POTUS. Perhaps that's an over-simplification, but it's the way I see it.
There is no viable route for Trump without all elements of FOP ..
He still needs a swing of at least 3-4% to be in the game. Looks unlikely.
Colorado and Nevada are being closed down. Clinton's early scores are encouraging. She's swinging through there in the next few days and has a visit to Arizona being planned too.0 -
''Plato will be up in 1... 2... 3... to tell you why that is exactly how it should be. ''
You Clintonettes better win.
If Trump wins your asses are Plato's for eternity. Except 619 of course, who will have disappeared.0 -
Hilary plus IT = HilarityJobabob said:TGOHF said:
Hilary will probably leave the codes written on a receipt in her purse - she's hopeless with security.619 said:
Who's Hilary? You could at least do her the courtesy of spelling her name correctly.
as crap as Ed0 -
The Clinton +12 was a substantial outlier and the Trump +1 is just outside the MoE of Clinton's 538 +4 lead.619 said:
so from a 12 point clinton lead to a 1 point Trump one?JackW said:National Tracker - Langer Research/ABC - Sample 1,128 - 26-30 Oct
Clinton 45 .. Trump 46
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-leads-clinton-point-poll-enthusiasm-declines/story?id=43199459
Something seems off about THAT much of a swing0 -
Brazile's intv with Megyn was pitifully embarrassing when she was caught the first time - now she's gone to ground after a Twitter meltdown yesterday.MaxPB said:
Yes, CNN has fired the Clinton surrogate that worked there. Anyone who still believes that the debates in the primaries and for POTUS weren't fixed in favour of her is kidding themselves.Alanbrooke said:
Germans saying CNN tipped off HRC's team on likely questions before the TV debates
http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/wahl-in-amerika/wikileaks-enthuellt-moeglichen-clinton-skandal-in-us-wahl-2016-14506951.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnARmUIQ_Rc0 -
Thanks - so a demon in lizard rather than human form.Jobabob said:Chris said:
So to recap, she's a demon from hell in physical form, with a drink problem, a drug problem and about a dozen different terminal diseases. Did I miss anything?PlatoSaid said:
There's rumours swirling of her drinking after a couple of references in Wikileaks to sobering her up mid afternoon and several strange media appearances inc Why Aren't I 50pts Ahead.weejonnie said:
Since Clinton has a proven record for embroiling the USA in wars I think this is hypocritical of her - but she's a Democrat so that's not unexpected.619 said:
Presumably you have already priced in that she is an actual lizard?
http://img.wonkette.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/hillary-lizard.jpg
But wait! Aren't most of her terminal diseases human-specific?0 -
I think you have mistaken me for Mistress Spyn.TheScreamingEagles said:Edit - Beaten by Dr Spyn
Just noticed @Scott_P was faster off the draw.0 -
Overall, there's been a swing of 10% from Lab to Con, from 1997-2015. Or, looking at it another way, a swing of 16% from Left to Right (if one places Referendum Party and UKIP on the Right, and Lib Dems and Greens on the Left.)GarethoftheVale2 said:It is interesting that the massive poll leads for the Cons have become almost unremarkable. I was looking at UK electoral maps since 1997 and the change has been dramatic.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_general_election,_1997#/media/File:UK_General_Election,_1997.svg
In 1997, Labour had a massive block of seats stretching all the way across the country from Conwy to Cleethorpes and down to Corby. Another block stretched from Fishguard to Stroud. there was also a big Thames Estuary cluster and another around Northampton and Milton Keynes. Of course Scotland was still strongly Lab and there were some surprise seats like NW Norfolk
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_general_election,_2005#/media/File:2005UKElectionMap.svg
By 2005 the Northants block has mostly disappeared and Lab has lost ground in the Thames Estuary. Most of the surprise seats like NW Norfolk and Inverness have gone but Lab still looks very strong in the Northern block
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_general_election,_2015#/media/File:2015UKElectionMap.svg
By 2015, the biggest change is the disappearance of all but one seat in Scotland. The Tories have broken up the big Northern block by gaining Calder and Colne Valleys. The Thames Estuary cluster has disappeared and Lab are reduced to a few red spots in Southern England outside London.
On current polling and current boundaries Lab could be wiped out in N Wales (losing 4 to Con and 1 to Plaid) and lose 2 each in Coventry and the Potteries. With a small further swing the Cons could become the largest party in Wales and the largest party in the former West Midlands county. The only good news for Lab is that Merseyside, Greater Manchester and S Yorkshire still look rock solid, while Lab would still be largest party in London.
But, within that overall figure, you can see places where the Conservative/Right vote hasn't recovered at all (Manchester, Liverpool, Merseyside generally, Brighton, parts of inner London and inner Birmingham) and places where the shift to the Right has been off the scale (Thames Estuary, Northamptonshire, Warwickshire and Staffordshire).0 -
But nowhere near as dangerous as Trump.Alanbrooke said:
Hilary plus IT = HilarityJobabob said:TGOHF said:
Hilary will probably leave the codes written on a receipt in her purse - she's hopeless with security.619 said:
Who's Hilary? You could at least do her the courtesy of spelling her name correctly.
as crap as Ed0 -
The next general election campaign is going to be brutal. If the Tories can portray Ed Miliband as a risk to national security......
https://twitter.com/election_data/status/7933693367569899520 -
The biggest problem with Hilary (for many Americans) is policy. While the financial gamblers on Wall Street have been protected, they simply have not. Main Street USA is hurting. Their property was never the piggy bank that some of the the coastal states have been, they cannot raise productivity because they cannot invest, because the money is all going to financial assets and property. Simply put, the economic system doesn't work for the average American.
Clinton represents more of the same. She also represents more of the same in foreign policy, healthcare and the move towards a larger federal government and less state independence which has been part of the Obama legacy.
This is where the 'Brexit' analogies do play slightly - in that in a nation where the system no longer works for the average man, people look to alternative visions of the future, or simply just to break up the cozy consensus of the previous few administrations.
I still don't think Trump will win, but I wouldn't be surprised if the next Republican candidate in 2020 turns out to be just a more saleable version of Trump - protectionist, small state, anti intervention, anti Fed power, low tax and potentially out to kick the previous establishment with a vengeance.0 -
debatablelogical_song said:
But nowhere near as dangerous as Trump.Alanbrooke said:
Hilary plus IT = HilarityJobabob said:TGOHF said:
Hilary will probably leave the codes written on a receipt in her purse - she's hopeless with security.619 said:
Who's Hilary? You could at least do her the courtesy of spelling her name correctly.
as crap as Ed
Trump is upfront a nutter, Hillary hides it - which is more dangerous ?0 -
I would not be impressed if I was a Bernie Sanders supporter to know that not only was Wasserman Schultz of the DNC fixing the Town Hall hustings in Hillary’s favour, but also that Donna Brazile at CNN was feeding her the questions beforehand. – Has a Democrat selection process ever been so tainted?MaxPB said:
Yes, CNN has fired the Clinton surrogate that worked there. Anyone who still believes that the debates in the primaries and for POTUS weren't fixed in favour of her is kidding themselves.Alanbrooke said:
Germans saying CNN tipped off HRC's team on likely questions before the TV debates
http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/wahl-in-amerika/wikileaks-enthuellt-moeglichen-clinton-skandal-in-us-wahl-2016-14506951.html
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Indeed. The labour vote at in the high 20's is due to the general brand awareness. The majority of the public simply don't engage in politics 95% of the time.TheScreamingEagles said:The next general election campaign is going to be brutal. If the Tories can portray Ed Miliband as a risk to national security......
https://twitter.com/election_data/status/7933693367569899520 -
For the first half of 2020, I think we can guess what every Tory will be saying at every opportunity...and I am sure the Tory friendly newspapers won't be shy in piling on.TheScreamingEagles said:The next general election campaign is going to be brutal. If the Tories can portray Ed Miliband as a risk to national security......
https://twitter.com/election_data/status/7933693367569899520 -
I was just WTF x 100 on steroids at your virtue signalling, which is handwaving/irrelevant. Rumours circling that she has one of these http://www.petmd.com/reptile/conditionsChris said:
Thanks - so a demon in lizard rather than human form.Jobabob said:Chris said:
So to recap, she's a demon from hell in physical form, with a drink problem, a drug problem and about a dozen different terminal diseases. Did I miss anything?PlatoSaid said:
There's rumours swirling of her drinking after a couple of references in Wikileaks to sobering her up mid afternoon and several strange media appearances inc Why Aren't I 50pts Ahead.weejonnie said:
Since Clinton has a proven record for embroiling the USA in wars I think this is hypocritical of her - but she's a Democrat so that's not unexpected.619 said:
Presumably you have already priced in that she is an actual lizard?
http://img.wonkette.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/hillary-lizard.jpg
But wait! Aren't most of her terminal diseases human-specific?
I just post what I see.0 -
1. How is Heseltine's mother still alive, he looks about 90.
2. What was her reaction to him strangling her Alsatian?
3. Heseltine is an even nastier piece of work than we thought.0 -
taffys said:
''Plato will be up in 1... 2... 3... to tell you why that is exactly how it should be. ''
You Clintonettes better win.
If Trump wins your asses are Plato's for eternity. Except 619 of course, who will have disappeared.
Of course, the same thing applies in reverse to the Platoite Trump rampers. Any remaining credibility they had – gone forever*
*I am long on Trump – think my bet is a loser.0 -
Virginia - Schar/Washington Post - Sample 1,024 - 27-30 Oct
Clinton 51 .. Trump 46
https://www.washingtonpost.com/page/2010-2019/WashingtonPost/2016/11/01/National-Politics/Polling/release_453.xml?tid=a_inl0 -
The wife of the blow job guy - that's her right ?Jobabob said:TGOHF said:
Hilary will probably leave the codes written on a receipt in her purse - she's hopeless with security.619 said:
Who's Hilary? You could at least do her the courtesy of spelling her name correctly.0 -
I think it is an old event, not a recent event.Essexit said:1. How is Heseltine's mother still alive, he looks about 90.
2. What was her reaction to him strangling her Alsatian?
3. Heseltine is an even nastier piece of work than we thought.
IIRC When I read Hezza's autobiography, his parents died in the 1960s0 -
Daily Mash take on Heseltine the dog killer.
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/heseltine-strangled-dog-as-part-of-thatcher-cabinet-initiation-ceremony-201611011163850 -
Ah yes, just read the BBC article and see it's old - that's why the RSPCA aren't investigating. 2. and 3. still stand.TheScreamingEagles said:
I think it is an old event, not a recent event.Essexit said:1. How is Heseltine's mother still alive, he looks about 90.
2. What was her reaction to him strangling her Alsatian?
3. Heseltine is an even nastier piece of work than we thought.
IIRC When I read Hezza's autobiography, his parents died in the 1960s0 -
Seems odd that Lib Dems are not taking advantage of Corbyn's gross failures. Farron the flat liner.0
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Thing is that Labour has these poll numbers despite people generally not being aware of the, erm, special views the Labour leadership has of Britain's armed forces and its history. A general election campaign under the current leadership could see Labour absolutely destroyed.0
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That's not too bad a poll for Trump to be honest (He won't win VA)JackW said:Virginia - Schar/Washington Post - Sample 1,024 - 27-30 Oct
Clinton 51 .. Trump 46
https://www.washingtonpost.com/page/2010-2019/WashingtonPost/2016/11/01/National-Politics/Polling/release_453.xml?tid=a_inl0 -
Surely everyone knows McDonnell is an IRA apologistFrancisUrquhart said:
For the first half of 2020, I think we can guess what every Tory will be saying at every opportunity...and I am sure the Tory friendly newspapers won't be shy in piling on.TheScreamingEagles said:The next general election campaign is going to be brutal. If the Tories can portray Ed Miliband as a risk to national security......
https://twitter.com/election_data/status/793369336756989952 ? 0 -
There's a bit in a book I once read when GERRY ADAMS suggests that John McDonnell was hindering the conclusion of the Good Friday Agreement. That could be fun...FrancisUrquhart said:
For the first half of 2020, I think we can guess what every Tory will be saying at every opportunity...and I am sure the Tory friendly newspapers won't be shy in piling on.TheScreamingEagles said:The next general election campaign is going to be brutal. If the Tories can portray Ed Miliband as a risk to national security......
https://twitter.com/election_data/status/7933693367569899520 -
Mr. Fletcher, the Conservatives need to raise it earlier than that. General Election campaigns seem more about reinforcing pre-conceived ideas rather than changing minds. [Well, that's my take on it].0
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Possibly Colorado and Wisconsin. I haven't totted up the numbers. The point is, if Trump does well enough to win those two states he will probably win Pennsylvania as well. And vice versa.JackW said:
In theory possibly .... but not in practice. Which two viable states make up for a Trump Pennsylvania loss?FF43 said:
Not QUITE the case. Trump can win if he overturns two states with similar Clinton margins to those those she has with Pennsylvania. The point is, he needs to do 5% better than his current average position in the polls, then a whole bunch of states will fall to him.JackW said:
FOP DENIER !!!!!!!!!peter_from_putney said:It seems to me very likely that whoever wins both Florida & Ohio will be the next POTUS. Perhaps that's an over-simplification, but it's the way I see it.
There is no viable route for Trump without all elements of FOP ..0 -
Tbh I wouldn't touch the PB Pussy Grabbers' asses with someone else's bargepole.Jobabob said:taffys said:''Plato will be up in 1... 2... 3... to tell you why that is exactly how it should be. ''
You Clintonettes better win.
If Trump wins your asses are Plato's for eternity. Except 619 of course, who will have disappeared.
Of course, the same thing applies in reverse to the Platoite Trump rampers. Any remaining credibility they had – gone forever*
*I am long on Trump – think my bet is a loser.0 -
Hillary has been a Senator and Secretary of State and did a good job, certainly wasn't a 'nutter'.Alanbrooke said:
debatablelogical_song said:
But nowhere near as dangerous as Trump.Alanbrooke said:
Hilary plus IT = HilarityJobabob said:TGOHF said:
Hilary will probably leave the codes written on a receipt in her purse - she's hopeless with security.619 said:
Who's Hilary? You could at least do her the courtesy of spelling her name correctly.
as crap as Ed
Trump is upfront a nutter, Hillary hides it - which is more dangerous ?
My money's on her rather hen the 'upfront nutter'. I fail to see how you could support an 'upfront nutter' to be the most powerful person on earth!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senate_career_of_Hillary_Clinton
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary_Clinton's_tenure_as_Secretary_of_State0 -
It is odd that the polls haven't reflected the election results that the LibDems are getting. Is it usual for them to lag?Pulpstar said:
The Lib Dems are doing very well in Derbyshire at the moment, stand by for another Town council gain in Staveleydr_spyn said:Seems odd that Lib Dems are not taking advantage of Corbyn's gross failures. Farron the flat liner.
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"Trump leads by a 50-39 percent margin among those looking to vote on Election Day"TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
The strategy is to focus on local elections (Build the councillor footsoldier/activist base), I don't think people are really paying attention nationally to be perfectly frank.logical_song said:
It is odd that the polls haven't reflected the election results that the LibDems are getting. Is it usual for them to lag?Pulpstar said:
The Lib Dems are doing very well in Derbyshire at the moment, stand by for another Town council gain in Staveleydr_spyn said:Seems odd that Lib Dems are not taking advantage of Corbyn's gross failures. Farron the flat liner.
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It's really only the protectionism that makes that package anything other than traditional Republicanism. As such, the likely candidate will be as establishment as Trump is. If you want someone who is anti Republican Establishment it would be a Palin-like character from a low profile state.TonyE said:The biggest problem with Hilary (for many Americans) is policy. While the financial gamblers on Wall Street have been protected, they simply have not. Main Street USA is hurting. Their property was never the piggy bank that some of the the coastal states have been, they cannot raise productivity because they cannot invest, because the money is all going to financial assets and property. Simply put, the economic system doesn't work for the average American.
Clinton represents more of the same. She also represents more of the same in foreign policy, healthcare and the move towards a larger federal government and less state independence which has been part of the Obama legacy.
This is where the 'Brexit' analogies do play slightly - in that in a nation where the system no longer works for the average man, people look to alternative visions of the future, or simply just to break up the cozy consensus of the previous few administrations.
I still don't think Trump will win, but I wouldn't be surprised if the next Republican candidate in 2020 turns out to be just a more saleable version of Trump - protectionist, small state, anti intervention, anti Fed power, low tax and potentially out to kick the previous establishment with a vengeance.
0 -
Yes. Not that that's saying much.SimonStClare said:
I would not be impressed if I was a Bernie Sanders supporter to know that not only was Wasserman Schultz of the DNC fixing the Town Hall hustings in Hillary’s favour, but also that Donna Brazile at CNN was feeding her the questions beforehand. – Has a Democrat selection process ever been so tainted?MaxPB said:
Yes, CNN has fired the Clinton surrogate that worked there. Anyone who still believes that the debates in the primaries and for POTUS weren't fixed in favour of her is kidding themselves.Alanbrooke said:
Germans saying CNN tipped off HRC's team on likely questions before the TV debates
http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/wahl-in-amerika/wikileaks-enthuellt-moeglichen-clinton-skandal-in-us-wahl-2016-14506951.html0 -
Yes and no.logical_song said:
It is odd that the polls haven't reflected the election results that the LibDems are getting. Is it usual for them to lag?Pulpstar said:
The Lib Dems are doing very well in Derbyshire at the moment, stand by for another Town council gain in Staveleydr_spyn said:Seems odd that Lib Dems are not taking advantage of Corbyn's gross failures. Farron the flat liner.
What the better indicator will be the 2017 locals.
In the 2016 locals, on a like for like basis, the Lib Dems made a net gain of 41 councillors, when most of these seats were fought in 2012, the Lib Dems lost 241 councillors
So you can say the Lib Dem surge is only recovering one sixth of the councillors they previously lost.0 -
I don’t think the disparity between the LD national polls and success at local elections is due to lag, more likely that the Lib Dems are far more favourably seen as a party of local gov't.logical_song said:
It is odd that the polls haven't reflected the election results that the LibDems are getting. Is it usual for them to lag?Pulpstar said:
The Lib Dems are doing very well in Derbyshire at the moment, stand by for another Town council gain in Staveleydr_spyn said:Seems odd that Lib Dems are not taking advantage of Corbyn's gross failures. Farron the flat liner.
0 -
What you mean a leadership that calls terrorist organisations "friends" won't go down well with the British public?Lucian_Fletcher said:Thing is that Labour has these poll numbers despite people generally not being aware of the, erm, special views the Labour leadership has of Britain's armed forces and its history. A general election campaign under the current leadership could see Labour absolutely destroyed.
0 -
The key difference is values and identity. Where multiculturalism, internationalism and identity politics are popular, Labour is still doing ok.Sean_F said:
Overall, there's been a swing of 10% from Lab to Con, from 1997-2015. Or, looking at it another way, a swing of 16% from Left to Right (if one places Referendum Party and UKIP on the Right, and Lib Dems and Greens on the Left.)GarethoftheVale2 said:It is interesting that the massive poll leads for the Cons have become almost unremarkable. I was looking at UK electoral maps since 1997 and the change has been dramatic.
In 1997, Labour had a massive block of seats stretching all the way across the country from Conwy to Cleethorpes and down to Corby. Another block stretched from Fishguard to Stroud. there was also a big Thames Estuary cluster and another around Northampton and Milton Keynes. Of course Scotland was still strongly Lab and there were some surprise seats like NW Norfolk
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_general_election,_2005#/media/File:2005UKElectionMap.svg
By 2005 the Northants block has mostly disappeared and Lab has lost ground in the Thames Estuary. Most of the surprise seats like NW Norfolk and Inverness have gone but Lab still looks very strong in the Northern block
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_general_election,_2015#/media/File:2015UKElectionMap.svg
By 2015, the biggest change is the disappearance of all but one seat in Scotland. The Tories have broken up the big Northern block by gaining Calder and Colne Valleys. The Thames Estuary cluster has disappeared and Lab are reduced to a few red spots in Southern England outside London.
On current polling and current boundaries Lab could be wiped out in N Wales (losing 4 to Con and 1 to Plaid) and lose 2 each in Coventry and the Potteries. With a small further swing the Cons could become the largest party in Wales and the largest party in the former West Midlands county. The only good news for Lab is that Merseyside, Greater Manchester and S Yorkshire still look rock solid, while Lab would still be largest party in London.
But, within that overall figure, you can see places where the Conservative/Right vote hasn't recovered at all (Manchester, Liverpool, Merseyside generally, Brighton, parts of inner London and inner Birmingham) and places where the shift to the Right has been off the scale (Thames Estuary, Northamptonshire, Warwickshire and Staffordshire).
Where immigration, and nationalism, are now primary drivers UKIP/SNP/Conservative Right hold sway.
There are a swathe of Middle England /middle class marginals in which centrism, good governance and economic competence are the prime drivers, and in much of these Blair isn't too unpopular, even today, but for now these places are voting Conservative.0 -
Thinking Trump might win is very different to wanting him to win. There are a few more of the former on here than the latter, who are mainly the usual race-baiters.Theuniondivvie said:
Tbh I wouldn't touch the PB Pussy Grabbers' asses with someone else's bargepole.Jobabob said:taffys said:''Plato will be up in 1... 2... 3... to tell you why that is exactly how it should be. ''
You Clintonettes better win.
If Trump wins your asses are Plato's for eternity. Except 619 of course, who will have disappeared.
Of course, the same thing applies in reverse to the Platoite Trump rampers. Any remaining credibility they had – gone forever*
*I am long on Trump – think my bet is a loser.
0 -
I think Colorado and Wisconsin would do it, but only if he won North Carolina.FF43 said:
Possibly Colorado and Wisconsin. I haven't totted up the numbers. The point is, if Trump does well enough to win those two states he will probably win Pennsylvania as well. And vice versa.JackW said:
In theory possibly .... but not in practice. Which two viable states make up for a Trump Pennsylvania loss?FF43 said:
Not QUITE the case. Trump can win if he overturns two states with similar Clinton margins to those those she has with Pennsylvania. The point is, he needs to do 5% better than his current average position in the polls, then a whole bunch of states will fall to him.JackW said:
FOP DENIER !!!!!!!!!peter_from_putney said:It seems to me very likely that whoever wins both Florida & Ohio will be the next POTUS. Perhaps that's an over-simplification, but it's the way I see it.
There is no viable route for Trump without all elements of FOP ..0 -
The Lib Dems' results might be down to:logical_song said:
It is odd that the polls haven't reflected the election results that the LibDems are getting. Is it usual for them to lag?Pulpstar said:
The Lib Dems are doing very well in Derbyshire at the moment, stand by for another Town council gain in Staveleydr_spyn said:Seems odd that Lib Dems are not taking advantage of Corbyn's gross failures. Farron the flat liner.
1. An ability to outfight opponents in by-elections, or
2. An ability to generate greater popularity when the public are engaged with politics.
The two are of course related but if it's the former then the by-elections are flattering to deceive as the LDs can't operate like that across a country, or across a region with multiple targets. It would be meaningful though for isolated target seats. If it's the latter, then that's even better news for them as it means that the election campaign of itself will improve their standing, even before local battles.
FWIW, I think it's a mixture but more of (1) than (2). I remain sceptical of Farron's ability to attract votes in the way that Ashdown, Kennedy and Clegg (in 2010) did; he's simply not that likeable.0 -
The people who don't know about it won't be listening to politicians outside election campaigns.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Fletcher, the Conservatives need to raise it earlier than that. General Election campaigns seem more about reinforcing pre-conceived ideas rather than changing minds. [Well, that's my take on it].
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Hillary isn't a nutter but I'd question whether she did a 'good job' in either role. Tolerably mediocre would be my assessment. But frankly, given the risks Trump poses, I'd take a tolerably mediocre US president for now.logical_song said:
Hillary has been a Senator and Secretary of State and did a good job, certainly wasn't a 'nutter'.Alanbrooke said:
debatablelogical_song said:
But nowhere near as dangerous as Trump.Alanbrooke said:
Hilary plus IT = HilarityJobabob said:TGOHF said:
Hilary will probably leave the codes written on a receipt in her purse - she's hopeless with security.619 said:
Who's Hilary? You could at least do her the courtesy of spelling her name correctly.
as crap as Ed
Trump is upfront a nutter, Hillary hides it - which is more dangerous ?
My money's on her rather hen the 'upfront nutter'. I fail to see how you could support an 'upfront nutter' to be the most powerful person on earth!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senate_career_of_Hillary_Clinton
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary_Clinton's_tenure_as_Secretary_of_State0 -
This is true. Long game (very) needed. But Farron is quite obviously a dismal leader.Pulpstar said:
The strategy is to focus on local elections (Build the councillor footsoldier/activist base), I don't think people are really paying attention nationally to be perfectly frank.logical_song said:
It is odd that the polls haven't reflected the election results that the LibDems are getting. Is it usual for them to lag?Pulpstar said:
The Lib Dems are doing very well in Derbyshire at the moment, stand by for another Town council gain in Staveleydr_spyn said:Seems odd that Lib Dems are not taking advantage of Corbyn's gross failures. Farron the flat liner.
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You might say that, Mr Urquhart. I couldn't possibly comment.FrancisUrquhart said:
What you mean a leadership that calls terrorist organisations "friends" won't go down well with the British public?Lucian_Fletcher said:Thing is that Labour has these poll numbers despite people generally not being aware of the, erm, special views the Labour leadership has of Britain's armed forces and its history. A general election campaign under the current leadership could see Labour absolutely destroyed.
0 -
F1: hmm:
https://twitter.com/Jamesallenonf1/status/793416491836125185
Mr. Fletcher, not paying much attention which is why the Conservatives need to bang on about it so it has time to sink in.0 -
Heseltine is Francis Underwood, without the success.Essexit said:1. How is Heseltine's mother still alive, he looks about 90.
2. What was her reaction to him strangling her Alsatian?
3. Heseltine is an even nastier piece of work than we thought.0 -
You have a strange definition of success.Casino_Royale said:
Heseltine is Francis Underwood, without the success.Essexit said:1. How is Heseltine's mother still alive, he looks about 90.
2. What was her reaction to him strangling her Alsatian?
3. Heseltine is an even nastier piece of work than we thought.
He's a multimillionaire business, President of the Oxford Union, successful cabinet minister, but for a dicky ticker, he might have been Tory leader and even PM if he hadn't backed John Major in 1995.
Plus he stopped Neil Kinnock from becoming PM, by making sure a tainted Thatcher didn't face him in a 1991/92 general election.0 -
True, but newspapers are of declining importance. What I'd anticipate are selectively chosen TV clips of Corbyn and McDonnell prompted to social media day after day, with the two of them justifying all sorts of things that swing voters will recoil from. The IRA and Hamas will feature but I doubt it'll be all. You then hang the TV story off the back: "another video has emerged, in which Jeremy Corbyn is accused of [whatever] ..."FrancisUrquhart said:
For the first half of 2020, I think we can guess what every Tory will be saying at every opportunity...and I am sure the Tory friendly newspapers won't be shy in piling on.TheScreamingEagles said:The next general election campaign is going to be brutal. If the Tories can portray Ed Miliband as a risk to national security......
https://twitter.com/election_data/status/793369336756989952
Not that it's an either/or.0 -
I think also the Lib Dems have the voters most likely to head out in by-elections.
On a scale of 'out for every parish council election to once in every 25 years' the list goes as follows:
1) Lib Dem
2) Conservative
3) Labour
4) UKIP
Hence the Lib Dems can outperform in smaller elections, whereas UKIP struggle to build up any footsoldiers. But it does mean UKIP can win Brexit type votes...0 -
Newspapers are declining importance, but BBC / Sky still take a lead from what many are pushing. Also, people share stories via social media etc etc etc.david_herdson said:
True, but newspapers are of declining importance. What I'd anticipate are selectively chosen TV clips of Corbyn and McDonnell prompted to social media day after day, with the two of them justifying all sorts of things that swing voters will recoil from. The IRA and Hamas will feature but I doubt it'll be all. You then hang the TV story off the back: "another video has emerged, in which Jeremy Corbyn is accused of [whatever] ..."FrancisUrquhart said:
For the first half of 2020, I think we can guess what every Tory will be saying at every opportunity...and I am sure the Tory friendly newspapers won't be shy in piling on.TheScreamingEagles said:The next general election campaign is going to be brutal. If the Tories can portray Ed Miliband as a risk to national security......
https://twitter.com/election_data/status/793369336756989952
Not that it's an either/or.
I probably also should have said Tory friendly media, rather than newspapers, as obviously the likes of Staines from time to time manages to push something into the mainstream. Although, he doesn't seem to be getting much traction with his daily expose of Baroness Scotland.0 -
I thought Thatcher was your hero? Or do you forgive Heseltine for knifing her because he's an EU-phile?TheScreamingEagles said:
You have a strange definition of success.Casino_Royale said:
Heseltine is Francis Underwood, without the success.Essexit said:1. How is Heseltine's mother still alive, he looks about 90.
2. What was her reaction to him strangling her Alsatian?
3. Heseltine is an even nastier piece of work than we thought.
He's a multimillionaire business, President of the Oxford Union, successful cabinet minister, but for a dicky ticker, he might have been Tory leader and even PM if he hadn't backed John Major in 1995.
Plus he stopped Neil Kinnock from becoming PM, by making sure a tainted Thatcher didn't face him in a 1991/92 general election.0 -
yeah, but he's still a twatTheScreamingEagles said:
You have a strange definition of success.Casino_Royale said:
Heseltine is Francis Underwood, without the success.Essexit said:1. How is Heseltine's mother still alive, he looks about 90.
2. What was her reaction to him strangling her Alsatian?
3. Heseltine is an even nastier piece of work than we thought.
He's a multimillionaire business, President of the Oxford Union, successful cabinet minister, but for a dicky ticker, he might have been Tory leader and even PM if he hadn't backed John Major in 1995.
Plus he stopped Neil Kinnock from becoming PM, by making sure a tainted Thatcher didn't face him in a 1991/92 general election.0 -
But will it matter in 2020? Will Staveley vote Lib Dem in the GE or will they do what they always do and vote Labour?Pulpstar said:
The Lib Dems are doing very well in Derbyshire at the moment, stand by for another Town council gain in Staveleydr_spyn said:Seems odd that Lib Dems are not taking advantage of Corbyn's gross failures. Farron the flat liner.
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He stormed out of the cabinet in 1986, failing to understand discretion is the better part of valour, failed to become leader in 1990 because he was too divisive and failed again in the 1990s. He didn't even become leader of the opposition. He let his ego and pomposity get the better of him. And he decisively lost the battle for Europe in the Tory party.TheScreamingEagles said:
You have a strange definition of success.Casino_Royale said:
Heseltine is Francis Underwood, without the success.Essexit said:1. How is Heseltine's mother still alive, he looks about 90.
2. What was her reaction to him strangling her Alsatian?
3. Heseltine is an even nastier piece of work than we thought.
He's a multimillionaire business, President of the Oxford Union, successful cabinet minister, but for a dicky ticker, he might have been Tory leader and even PM if he hadn't backed John Major in 1995.
Plus he stopped Neil Kinnock from becoming PM, by making sure a tainted Thatcher didn't face him in a 1991/92 general election.
By his own measure (he wrote down his step-by-step career plan decades before and wanted to be PM in his 50s) he was failure.0 -
And Corbyn has neither the inclination nor skill to disassociate himself from those views. If asked, he'd probably try to justify them.FrancisUrquhart said:
What you mean a leadership that calls terrorist organisations "friends" won't go down well with the British public?Lucian_Fletcher said:Thing is that Labour has these poll numbers despite people generally not being aware of the, erm, special views the Labour leadership has of Britain's armed forces and its history. A general election campaign under the current leadership could see Labour absolutely destroyed.
0 -
Mrs Thatcher had become terminally unpopular and a tin ear, and the Tory party does what it does best, an absolute monarchy moderated by regicide.Essexit said:
I thought Thatcher was your hero? Or do you forgive Heseltine for knifing her because he's an EU-phile?TheScreamingEagles said:
You have a strange definition of success.Casino_Royale said:
Heseltine is Francis Underwood, without the success.Essexit said:1. How is Heseltine's mother still alive, he looks about 90.
2. What was her reaction to him strangling her Alsatian?
3. Heseltine is an even nastier piece of work than we thought.
He's a multimillionaire business, President of the Oxford Union, successful cabinet minister, but for a dicky ticker, he might have been Tory leader and even PM if he hadn't backed John Major in 1995.
Plus he stopped Neil Kinnock from becoming PM, by making sure a tainted Thatcher didn't face him in a 1991/92 general election.
If hadn't been Sir Geoffrey Howe and the EU, it would have been someone else over the Poll Tax.
I've said it before, it might have been better for the Tory Party had Thatcher been toppled over the Poll Tax and not the EU.
She lost her Willie in 1988 and boy did it show.0 -
Labour are chock full of voters who only come out at General Election time due to brand loyalty. As Scotland has shown, this isn't such a safe strategy in the (very) long term..tlg86 said:
But will it matter in 2020? Will Staveley vote Lib Dem in the GE or will they do what they always do and vote Labour?Pulpstar said:
The Lib Dems are doing very well in Derbyshire at the moment, stand by for another Town council gain in Staveleydr_spyn said:Seems odd that Lib Dems are not taking advantage of Corbyn's gross failures. Farron the flat liner.
Incidentally one of my friends is a Labour member, she isn't sure she'll be able to bring herself to vote for Corbyn at 2020 (Golders Green constituency)0 -
I must say Heseltine has gone up hugely in my estimation.0
-
I don't think I could vote for someone who hadn't strangled at least one dog.Essexit said:
Ah yes, just read the BBC article and see it's old - that's why the RSPCA aren't investigating. 2. and 3. still stand.TheScreamingEagles said:
I think it is an old event, not a recent event.Essexit said:1. How is Heseltine's mother still alive, he looks about 90.
2. What was her reaction to him strangling her Alsatian?
3. Heseltine is an even nastier piece of work than we thought.
IIRC When I read Hezza's autobiography, his parents died in the 1960s0 -
I've just learned something new
1) Sir Winston Churchill was a ginger (so huzzah, we've had a ginger PM)
2) Students at Harrow used to call him 'Copperknob'0 -
I am not sure that multiculturalism, internationalism and identity politics are defining issues in places like Merseyside, South Yorkshire, Manchester and the North East, though they may be in parts of London, Brighton and Birmingham. Labour is doing OK (no more) in constituencies with higher than average levels of poverty and/or strong anti-Tory sentiment. It is performing disastrously in areas of average or below average poverty and where the Tory brand is not toxic - ie, most of the country. That's because Labour under Corbyn has no message or interest for those who are in work and getting by, or who aspire to improve themselves. Corbyn Labour's only focus is on victims. Most people do not see themselves like that.Casino_Royale said:
The key difference is values and identity. Where multiculturalism, internationalism and identity politics are popular, Labour is still doing ok.Sean_F said:
Overall, there's been a swing of 10% from Lab to Con, from 1997-2015. Or, looking at it another way, a swing of 16% from Left to Right (if one places Referendum Party and UKIP on the Right, and Lib Dems and Greens on the Left.)GarethoftheVale2 said:It is interesting that the massive poll leads for the Cons have become almost unremarkable. I was looking at UK electoral maps since 1997 and the change has been dramatic.
In Lab and there were some surprise seats like NW Norfolk
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_general_election,_2005#/media/File:2005UKElectionMap.svg
By 2005 the Northants block has mostly disappeared and Lab has lost ground in the Thames Estuary. Most of the surprise seats like NW Norfolk and Inverness have gone but Lab still looks very strong in the Northern block
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_general_election,_2015#/media/File:2015UKElectionMap.svg
By Southern England outside London.
On in London.
But, within that overall figure, you can see places where the Conservative/Right vote hasn't recovered at all (Manchester, Liverpool, Merseyside generally, Brighton, parts of inner London and inner Birmingham) and places where the shift to the Right has been off the scale (Thames Estuary, Northamptonshire, Warwickshire and Staffordshire).
Where immigration, and nationalism, are now primary drivers UKIP/SNP/Conservative Right hold sway.
There are a swathe of Middle England /middle class marginals in which centrism, good governance and economic competence are the prime drivers, and in much of these Blair isn't too unpopular, even today, but for now these places are voting Conservative.
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Better to strangle an animal than to put your chap in its mouth?rcs1000 said:
I don't think I could vote for someone who hadn't strangled at least one dog.Essexit said:
Ah yes, just read the BBC article and see it's old - that's why the RSPCA aren't investigating. 2. and 3. still stand.TheScreamingEagles said:
I think it is an old event, not a recent event.Essexit said:1. How is Heseltine's mother still alive, he looks about 90.
2. What was her reaction to him strangling her Alsatian?
3. Heseltine is an even nastier piece of work than we thought.
IIRC When I read Hezza's autobiography, his parents died in the 1960s0 -
He was an arrogant, entitled cock.Casino_Royale said:
He stormed out of the cabinet in 1986, failing to understand discretion is the better part of valour, failed to become leader in 1990 because he was too divisive and failed again in the 1990s. He didn't even become leader of the opposition. He let his ego and pomposity get the better of him. And he decisively lost the battle for Europe in the Tory party.TheScreamingEagles said:
You have a strange definition of success.Casino_Royale said:
Heseltine is Francis Underwood, without the success.Essexit said:1. How is Heseltine's mother still alive, he looks about 90.
2. What was her reaction to him strangling her Alsatian?
3. Heseltine is an even nastier piece of work than we thought.
He's a multimillionaire business, President of the Oxford Union, successful cabinet minister, but for a dicky ticker, he might have been Tory leader and even PM if he hadn't backed John Major in 1995.
Plus he stopped Neil Kinnock from becoming PM, by making sure a tainted Thatcher didn't face him in a 1991/92 general election.
By his own measure (he wrote down his step-by-step career plan decades before and wanted to be PM in his 50s) he was failure.
Although the Alsatian story does make me think a little better of him.0 -
NEW THREAD
0 -
Mr. Nabavi, not a dog fan?0
-
Heseltine was/is really a National Liberal , and back in the 1920s would have followed Lloyd George.Casino_Royale said:
He stormed out of the cabinet in 1986, failing to understand discretion is the better part of valour, failed to become leader in 1990 because he was too divisive and failed again in the 1990s. He didn't even become leader of the opposition. He let his ego and pomposity get the better of him. And he decisively lost the battle for Europe in the Tory party.TheScreamingEagles said:
You have a strange definition of success.Casino_Royale said:
Heseltine is Francis Underwood, without the success.Essexit said:1. How is Heseltine's mother still alive, he looks about 90.
2. What was her reaction to him strangling her Alsatian?
3. Heseltine is an even nastier piece of work than we thought.
He's a multimillionaire business, President of the Oxford Union, successful cabinet minister, but for a dicky ticker, he might have been Tory leader and even PM if he hadn't backed John Major in 1995.
Plus he stopped Neil Kinnock from becoming PM, by making sure a tainted Thatcher didn't face him in a 1991/92 general election.
By his own measure (he wrote down his step-by-step career plan decades before and wanted to be PM in his 50s) he was failure.0 -
New Isn't May Doing Well Isn't Corbyn Doing Badly Thread0
