politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Free movement now appears to be at the heart of Brexit negotia
Comments
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Three million Floridians have already voted in 2016. Around 8.5 million Floridians voted in total in 2012 (I think).MarqueeMark said:
So that is what, close on two thirds of those who we would normally expect to actually vote?Jobabob said:Fact of the day: ~34% of Floridians have already voted. Factor that into any calculations.
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@justin124
'The Orgreave decision represents a great victory for the Arbeit Macht Frei wing of the Tory party! Herman Goering would have been so proud of Amber Rudd, and been confident that she would have found good reasons not to launch an enquiry into the opening of concentration camps in 1933.'
So the New Labour government was even worse as they had 13 years to investigate Orgreave,but also realized it would be a complete waste of time and taxpayers money.0 -
Re Orgreave, when you're lobbing rocks at people trying to get to work, don't be surprised when you end up on the receiving end of a police officer's boot or truncheon.0
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When the approach is, we know that they're guilty, now where's the evidence, one runs the same risks as we saw repeatedly from Police behaviour in the 1960s and 1970s.Cyclefree said:
Nothing - other than to look as if they are doing something. It's the same nonsense we had when the police put an officer outside Edward Heath's home over similar allegations. Mind you, given the nonsense which is going on with the judicial inquiry into historic child abuse (which is a FUBAR on stilts) there's not much hope of anything sensible emerging when an investigation is confused with therapy for victims. The two are not the same.RobD said:
But if the suspect is dead, what are the police hoping to achieve?justin124 said:
That did occur to me simply because he cannot be charged or prosecuted. However, a man has made allegations of abuse relating to the early 1950s.RobD said:
Why are the police investigating a dead person?justin124 said:As for these events being too distant in time, I believe that the police are currently engaged in investigating allegations made against a former Bishop of Chichester relating to events of the early 1950s. The Bishop concerned died in 1958!
It's pointless and cruel sentimentality to confuse the two.
Investigations should be focused, should be led by tough, trained investigators who know what they are doing, written in clear language and should aim to be quick. You can get 80-90% of what you need to know pretty quickly IMO. Sometimes spending 90% of your time on gathering 10% of the information is pointless.
I'm no criminal lawyer but claimants are referred to as victims there is a presumption of guilt and honesty which, without evidence, I'm extremely uncomfortable with.0 -
Statement on ESA green paper happening in HoC. Debbie Abrahams seems to making a hash of it so far.0
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Pulpstar said:
For a full £3.57 at 7-1 with SkybetJobabob said:
That was my wildcard choice Jack. Interestingly, one can back that map (ECV range) at a decent price –whether or not WI falls into the Red column.JackW said:
You have a plausible map except Trump taking Wisconsin.Jobabob said:Dunno. Been trying to pseudo-crunch the numbers these past few days. Reckon the mini Emails Strikes Back 'scandal' might be worth a point or two to the Trumptons. But that won't be enough, particularly with the gearing caused by early voting (which looks mostly good for Hillary), to change the result. It may, however, lead to value in the state markets.
That all said, I have been forecasting that Trump will carry FL for a while. I'm not changing from my central forecast of Hillary by 284 to 254*
http://www.270towin.com/maps/QxjkN
*DYOR – longstanding PBers will recall I have been way too pessimistic on the DEM ECV in recent years.
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Jobabob said:Pulpstar said:
For a full £3.57 at 7-1 with SkybetJobabob said:
That was my wildcard choice Jack. Interestingly, one can back that map (ECV range) at a decent price –whether or not WI falls into the Red column.JackW said:
You have a plausible map except Trump taking Wisconsin.Jobabob said:Dunno. Been trying to pseudo-crunch the numbers these past few days. Reckon the mini Emails Strikes Back 'scandal' might be worth a point or two to the Trumptons. But that won't be enough, particularly with the gearing caused by early voting (which looks mostly good for Hillary), to change the result. It may, however, lead to value in the state markets.
That all said, I have been forecasting that Trump will carry FL for a while. I'm not changing from my central forecast of Hillary by 284 to 254*
http://www.270towin.com/maps/QxjkN
*DYOR – longstanding PBers will recall I have been way too pessimistic on the DEM ECV in recent years.
I haven't yet backed it but I fear I will be offered similarly mean terms by our friends at SkyBet...Jobabob said:Pulpstar said:
For a full £3.57 at 7-1 with SkybetJobabob said:
That was my wildcard choice Jack. Interestingly, one can back that map (ECV range) at a decent price –whether or not WI falls into the Red column.JackW said:
You have a plausible map except Trump taking Wisconsin.Jobabob said:Dunno. Been trying to pseudo-crunch the numbers these past few days. Reckon the mini Emails Strikes Back 'scandal' might be worth a point or two to the Trumptons. But that won't be enough, particularly with the gearing caused by early voting (which looks mostly good for Hillary), to change the result. It may, however, lead to value in the state markets.
That all said, I have been forecasting that Trump will carry FL for a while. I'm not changing from my central forecast of Hillary by 284 to 254*
http://www.270towin.com/maps/QxjkN
*DYOR – longstanding PBers will recall I have been way too pessimistic on the DEM ECV in recent years.0 -
I have a number of cynical views on why they might do so.david_herdson said:
Fair enough. Do you have any suggestions for why the police might be investigating someone dead for more than half a century?Cyclefree said:
There is no corporate liability for the criminal offence of child abuse. Civil liability is another matter. But that is not a police matter.david_herdson said:
Presumably because the C of E might be corporately (?) liable and because potential victims are still alive.RobD said:
Why are the police investigating a dead person?justin124 said:As for these events being too distant in time, I believe that the police are currently engaged in investigating allegations made against a former Bishop of Chichester relating to events of the early 1950s. The Bishop concerned died in 1958!
But if so, there's a considerable difference between an innocent child or, possibly, young adult, and a striker, engaged in an illegal strike, attending an illegal picket and intend on intimidating police and company. While that is of itself no excuse for illegal behaviour on the part of the police, it does raise the bar in terms of where compensation might be due.
What the police themselves have said would be a good start.
IMO we are so obsessed with uncovering alleged crimes by dead people - with the concomitant grandstanding and posturing - that we are at risk of not properly investigating crimes being committed now. Far easier to get outraged by what long since dead people are alleged to have done than to take effective steps to protect children now and catch, investigate and prosecute their abusers (and those who protect them) now.
The latter involves hard work. The former involves a lot of emoting and air time in the media.
(As I say, I have a tendency to be cynical.)
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Has parliament had the debate where everyone in England and Wales wants an extra hour of light in the evening, but Scottish farmers can't send their kids to school in the light or some such ?
Always an annual event that inevitably never goes anywhere.0 -
The new James Bond?Scott_P said:0 -
Staying for a full 8 years I heard this morningScott_P said: 0 -
I see the massive DNC pile on re Comey continues apace. It's so OTT, even by Trump standards.
He's 10yr tenure with 7 left.0 -
Me too.matt said:
When the approach is, we know that they're guilty, now where's the evidence, one runs the same risks as we saw repeatedly from Police behaviour in the 1960s and 1970s.Cyclefree said:
Nothing - other than to look as if they are doing something. It's the same nonsense we had when the police put an officer outside Edward Heath's home over similar allegations. Mind you, given the nonsense which is going on with the judicial inquiry into historic child abuse (which is a FUBAR on stilts) there's not much hope of anything sensible emerging when an investigation is confused with therapy for victims. The two are not the same.RobD said:
But if the suspect is dead, what are the police hoping to achieve?justin124 said:
That did occur to me simply because he cannot be charged or prosecuted. However, a man has made allegations of abuse relating to the early 1950s.RobD said:
Why are the police investigating a dead person?justin124 said:As for these events being too distant in time, I believe that the police are currently engaged in investigating allegations made against a former Bishop of Chichester relating to events of the early 1950s. The Bishop concerned died in 1958!
It's pointless and cruel sentimentality to confuse the two.
Investigations should be focused, should be led by tough, trained investigators who know what they are doing, written in clear language and should aim to be quick. You can get 80-90% of what you need to know pretty quickly IMO. Sometimes spending 90% of your time on gathering 10% of the information is pointless.
I'm no criminal lawyer but claimants are referred to as victims there is a presumption of guilt and honesty which, without evidence, I'm extremely uncomfortable with.
The presumption of innocence is a very very important protection. It is precisely because child abuse is such a vile crime that one should cherish this important part of our criminal law even more.
The MacAlpine affair should have taught us this - at the very least. Even victims (alleged victims) can be wrong and can be manipulated and such an accusation leaves a stain which no amount of weasel worded apologies will remove. That is why a court - with a jury - and evidence which is tested is the proper forum for determining such matters. Not the court of public opinion or the media, all of whom have their own - often short-term and ill-informed - agendas.
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Yes when they refer to people as victims then it presumes guilt on the part of the defendant. That is, IMO, a step too far. We need the police to investigate rather than use their current approach of "listen and believe" or "credible and true". Its has led to too many destroyed lives. As a younger cousin of mine pointed out yesterday, society is now moving to a "feels before reals" approach where people's feelings are more important than facts and evidence.matt said:
When the approach is, we know that they're guilty, now where's the evidence, one runs the same risks as we saw repeatedly from Police behaviour in the 1960s and 1970s.Cyclefree said:
Nothing - other than to look as if they are doing something. It's the same nonsense we had when the police put an officer outside Edward Heath's home over similar allegations. Mind you, given the nonsense which is going on with the judicial inquiry into historic child abuse (which is a FUBAR on stilts) there's not much hope of anything sensible emerging when an investigation is confused with therapy for victims. The two are not the same.RobD said:
But if the suspect is dead, what are the police hoping to achieve?justin124 said:
That did occur to me simply because he cannot be charged or prosecuted. However, a man has made allegations of abuse relating to the early 1950s.RobD said:
Why are the police investigating a dead person?justin124 said:As for these events being too distant in time, I believe that the police are currently engaged in investigating allegations made against a former Bishop of Chichester relating to events of the early 1950s. The Bishop concerned died in 1958!
It's pointless and cruel sentimentality to confuse the two.
Investigations should be focused, should be led by tough, trained investigators who know what they are doing, written in clear language and should aim to be quick. You can get 80-90% of what you need to know pretty quickly IMO. Sometimes spending 90% of your time on gathering 10% of the information is pointless.
I'm no criminal lawyer but claimants are referred to as victims there is a presumption of guilt and honesty which, without evidence, I'm extremely uncomfortable with.0 -
Out of interest, why is Florida the swingiest of swing States? Republican in 1992, 2000, 2004. Democratic in 1996, 2008, 2012, and a toss up now. And closely fought every time.JackW said:
You have a plausible map except Trump taking Wisconsin.Jobabob said:Dunno. Been trying to pseudo-crunch the numbers these past few days. Reckon the mini Emails Strikes Back 'scandal' might be worth a point or two to the Trumptons. But that won't be enough, particularly with the gearing caused by early voting (which looks mostly good for Hillary), to change the result. It may, however, lead to value in the state markets.
That all said, I have been forecasting that Trump will carry FL for a while. I'm not changing from my central forecast of Hillary by 284 to 254*
http://www.270towin.com/maps/QxjkN
*DYOR – longstanding PBers will recall I have been way too pessimistic on the DEM ECV in recent years.0 -
The latest shenanigans exposed from the Clinton camp make for entertaining reading. The DNC leaking questions to Shillary ahead of a debate with Sanders and then specifically denying it. When you consider how reluctant many Sanders supporters are to vote for someone they believe had the election rigged in her favour by the DNC, this is significant damage.
What time in the UK do results start coming through? If I get up at 4am how far along will we be?0 -
As Congressman Gowdy said in your link earlier today – Democrats should point the finger in the right place, not at the guy doing his job. Hillary has no one to blame but herself.PlatoSaid said:I see the massive DNC pile on re Comey continues apace. It's so OTT, even by Trump standards.
He's 10yr tenure with 7 left.0 -
Actually got a tenner on.Jobabob said:Jobabob said:Pulpstar said:
For a full £3.57 at 7-1 with SkybetJobabob said:
That was my wildcard choice Jack. Interestingly, one can back that map (ECV range) at a decent price –whether or not WI falls into the Red column.JackW said:
You have a plausible map except Trump taking Wisconsin.Jobabob said:Dunno. Been trying to pseudo-crunch the numbers these past few days. Reckon the mini Emails Strikes Back 'scandal' might be worth a point or two to the Trumptons. But that won't be enough, particularly with the gearing caused by early voting (which looks mostly good for Hillary), to change the result. It may, however, lead to value in the state markets.
That all said, I have been forecasting that Trump will carry FL for a while. I'm not changing from my central forecast of Hillary by 284 to 254*
http://www.270towin.com/maps/QxjkN
*DYOR – longstanding PBers will recall I have been way too pessimistic on the DEM ECV in recent years.
I haven't yet backed it but I fear I will be offered similarly mean terms by our friends at SkyBet...Jobabob said:Pulpstar said:
For a full £3.57 at 7-1 with SkybetJobabob said:
That was my wildcard choice Jack. Interestingly, one can back that map (ECV range) at a decent price –whether or not WI falls into the Red column.JackW said:
You have a plausible map except Trump taking Wisconsin.Jobabob said:Dunno. Been trying to pseudo-crunch the numbers these past few days. Reckon the mini Emails Strikes Back 'scandal' might be worth a point or two to the Trumptons. But that won't be enough, particularly with the gearing caused by early voting (which looks mostly good for Hillary), to change the result. It may, however, lead to value in the state markets.
That all said, I have been forecasting that Trump will carry FL for a while. I'm not changing from my central forecast of Hillary by 284 to 254*
http://www.270towin.com/maps/QxjkN
*DYOR – longstanding PBers will recall I have been way too pessimistic on the DEM ECV in recent years.0 -
Oh my word
Micro Spooky Leaks
#PodestaEmails24: "get a state department career lawyer to go through all the emails and delete the official ones" https://t.co/olfT4SEKJQ https://t.co/gJ2XWMkkcx0 -
If you look at the demographics it almost exactly matches the country in terms of race.Sean_F said:
Out of interest, why is Florida the swingiest of swing States? Republican in 1992, 2000, 2004. Democratic in 1996, 2008, 2012, and a toss up now. And closely fought every time.JackW said:
You have a plausible map except Trump taking Wisconsin.Jobabob said:Dunno. Been trying to pseudo-crunch the numbers these past few days. Reckon the mini Emails Strikes Back 'scandal' might be worth a point or two to the Trumptons. But that won't be enough, particularly with the gearing caused by early voting (which looks mostly good for Hillary), to change the result. It may, however, lead to value in the state markets.
That all said, I have been forecasting that Trump will carry FL for a while. I'm not changing from my central forecast of Hillary by 284 to 254*
http://www.270towin.com/maps/QxjkN
*DYOR – longstanding PBers will recall I have been way too pessimistic on the DEM ECV in recent years.0 -
Gabby Morrongiella
ALSO via Monmouth:
– Clinton led Trump by 9 pts among women 2 weeks ago. Now he's up 47-42
– 4% of voters said FBI news changed their vote0 -
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There are cross currents of demographic trends but have on balance edged the state blue - older retirees against rising AA and Hispanic voters. More long term the state will go bluer especially as Cuban Americans now make up only 30% of Hispanics. It is also has one of the best GOP state organizations.Sean_F said:
Out of interest, why is Florida the swingiest of swing States? Republican in 1992, 2000, 2004. Democratic in 1996, 2008, 2012, and a toss up now. And closely fought every time.JackW said:
You have a plausible map except Trump taking Wisconsin.Jobabob said:Dunno. Been trying to pseudo-crunch the numbers these past few days. Reckon the mini Emails Strikes Back 'scandal' might be worth a point or two to the Trumptons. But that won't be enough, particularly with the gearing caused by early voting (which looks mostly good for Hillary), to change the result. It may, however, lead to value in the state markets.
That all said, I have been forecasting that Trump will carry FL for a while. I'm not changing from my central forecast of Hillary by 284 to 254*
http://www.270towin.com/maps/QxjkN
*DYOR – longstanding PBers will recall I have been way too pessimistic on the DEM ECV in recent years.0 -
I foolishly followed these links and the actual line is "get a state department career lawyer to go through all the emails and PULL the official ones".PlatoSaid said:Oh my word
Micro Spooky Leaks
#PodestaEmails24: "get a state department career lawyer to go through all the emails and delete the official ones" https://t.co/olfT4SEKJQ https://t.co/gJ2XWMkkcx
Plato, Plato, Plato. I know we're all supposed to believe you're doing it because you're fed up with the "handwaving", have a unique channel to angry Trumpland, and because this is apparently useful Intel for a betting site.
But this is a fraud.0 -
The quote from the tweet doesn't match the linked e-mail.PlatoSaid said:Oh my word
Micro Spooky Leaks
#PodestaEmails24: "get a state department career lawyer to go through all the emails and delete the official ones" https://t.co/olfT4SEKJQ https://t.co/gJ2XWMkkcx0 -
That really is huge news. I wonder what difference it made with men? Presumably significantly less, as they were already going to Trump in bigger numbers, but if there is a noteable move there too - this could yet be a fascinating week....PlatoSaid said:Gabby Morrongiella
ALSO via Monmouth:
– Clinton led Trump by 9 pts among women 2 weeks ago. Now he's up 47-42
– 4% of voters said FBI news changed their vote0 -
Howard Kurtosis
CNN has accepted Donna Brazile's resignation, saying it is "completely uncomfortable" with her leaking Qs in advance to the Clinton camp0 -
It's not foolish to follow the links. It's important to do so otherwise you might believe the libelous lies Plato posts.Gardenwalker said:
I foolishly followed these linksPlatoSaid said:Oh my word
Micro Spooky Leaks
#PodestaEmails24: "get a state department career lawyer to go through all the emails and delete the official ones" https://t.co/olfT4SEKJQ https://t.co/gJ2XWMkkcx0 -
Clinton starting to reap the shit-storm....PlatoSaid said:Howard Kurtosis
CNN has accepted Donna Brazile's resignation, saying it is "completely uncomfortable" with her leaking Qs in advance to the Clinton camp0 -
The epic levels of handwaving may lead to the whole site leaving the ground, if you're not careful.0
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It#s all unravelling for the Democrats.You are going to be proved right.PlatoSaid said:Howard Kurtosis
CNN has accepted Donna Brazile's resignation, saying it is "completely uncomfortable" with her leaking Qs in advance to the Clinton camp0 -
You have a keen eye Mr Alistair – someone has swapped ‘pull the official ones’, for ‘delete the official ones’. – Safe to say however, it means the same thing.Alistair said:
The quote from the tweet doesn't match the linked e-mail.PlatoSaid said:Oh my word
Micro Spooky Leaks
#PodestaEmails24: "get a state department career lawyer to go through all the emails and delete the official ones" https://t.co/olfT4SEKJQ https://t.co/gJ2XWMkkcx0 -
Now that *is* news.PlatoSaid said:Howard Kurtosis
CNN has accepted Donna Brazile's resignation, saying it is "completely uncomfortable" with her leaking Qs in advance to the Clinton camp0 -
To lose one party chairwoman is a misfortune...PlatoSaid said:Howard Kurtosis
CNN has accepted Donna Brazile's resignation, saying it is "completely uncomfortable" with her leaking Qs in advance to the Clinton camp0 -
Hardly. Unless you're in the dissembling business.SimonStClare said:
You have a keen eye Mr Alistair – someone has swapped ‘pull the official ones’, for ‘delete the official ones’. – Safe to say however, it means the same thing.Alistair said:
The quote from the tweet doesn't match the linked e-mail.PlatoSaid said:Oh my word
Micro Spooky Leaks
#PodestaEmails24: "get a state department career lawyer to go through all the emails and delete the official ones" https://t.co/olfT4SEKJQ https://t.co/gJ2XWMkkcx0 -
There's also this, which will become a talking point too:SimonStClare said:
You have a keen eye Mr Alistair – someone has swapped ‘pull the official ones’, for ‘delete the official ones’. – Safe to say however, it means the same thing.Alistair said:
The quote from the tweet doesn't match the linked e-mail.PlatoSaid said:Oh my word
Micro Spooky Leaks
#PodestaEmails24: "get a state department career lawyer to go through all the emails and delete the official ones" https://t.co/olfT4SEKJQ https://t.co/gJ2XWMkkcx
"Btw you know as well as I every god damn cabinet officer and WH staff uses there gmail account!"
So basically, all of Government has shit security....
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Prince of Taranto, I still think Clinton will win. She'll have a relatively huge advantage in early voting, and Trump's still despised by enough people that an on-the-day victory would still be tight. Clinton remains in pole position.0
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How on earth does one find the time to read, consider and post all of these?Alistair said:
It's not foolish to follow the links. It's important to do so otherwise you might believe the libelous lies Plato posts.Gardenwalker said:
I foolishly followed these linksPlatoSaid said:Oh my word
Micro Spooky Leaks
#PodestaEmails24: "get a state department career lawyer to go through all the emails and delete the official ones" https://t.co/olfT4SEKJQ https://t.co/gJ2XWMkkcx0 -
Clinton's lead down to 2.5 points:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_clinton-5491.html0 -
Live on Fox
President has complete confidence in AG Lynch0 -
CNN rigging the debate for Clinton. Sadly as surprising that the Pope is a catholic. This is a very tainted election.PlatoSaid said:Howard Kurtosis
CNN has accepted Donna Brazile's resignation, saying it is "completely uncomfortable" with her leaking Qs in advance to the Clinton camp
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Trump should demand a further debate, where he has advance sight of the questions, but Hillary doesn't....
It just feeds into Trump's meme of a crooked establishment doing all they can to shoe-horn Crooked Hillary into the White House. I have no desire to see President Trump, but I have to think this is playing absolutely into his hands. Idiotic stuff from the Clinton campaign.0 -
I for one do not typically read them.matt said:
How on earth does one find the time to read, consider and post all of these?Alistair said:
It's not foolish to follow the links. It's important to do so otherwise you might believe the libelous lies Plato posts.Gardenwalker said:
I foolishly followed these linksPlatoSaid said:Oh my word
Micro Spooky Leaks
#PodestaEmails24: "get a state department career lawyer to go through all the emails and delete the official ones" https://t.co/olfT4SEKJQ https://t.co/gJ2XWMkkcx
And not entirely sure Plato spends any time considering them.0 -
President has complete confidence in CNN as does Mrs Clinton.PlatoSaid said:Live on Fox
President has complete confidence in AG Lynch
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Where's 619 ?0
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Maybe, but momentum is all with Trump at the moment.Morris_Dancer said:Prince of Taranto, I still think Clinton will win. She'll have a relatively huge advantage in early voting, and Trump's still despised by enough people that an on-the-day victory would still be tight. Clinton remains in pole position.
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Perhaps Clinton's last act in politics will be to drag Obama down with her.PlatoSaid said:Live on Fox
President has complete confidence in AG Lynch0 -
The politicians concerned are in the dissembling business!Gardenwalker said:
Hardly. Unless you're in the dissembling business.SimonStClare said:
You have a keen eye Mr Alistair – someone has swapped ‘pull the official ones’, for ‘delete the official ones’. – Safe to say however, it means the same thing.Alistair said:
The quote from the tweet doesn't match the linked e-mail.PlatoSaid said:Oh my word
Micro Spooky Leaks
#PodestaEmails24: "get a state department career lawyer to go through all the emails and delete the official ones" https://t.co/olfT4SEKJQ https://t.co/gJ2XWMkkcx0 -
Plato has done this site a big service in posting contrary views to the 80%+ of the USA stuff that is pro-Clinton.Alistair said:
It's not foolish to follow the links. It's important to do so otherwise you might believe the libelous lies Plato posts.Gardenwalker said:
I foolishly followed these linksPlatoSaid said:Oh my word
Micro Spooky Leaks
#PodestaEmails24: "get a state department career lawyer to go through all the emails and delete the official ones" https://t.co/olfT4SEKJQ https://t.co/gJ2XWMkkcx
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Pah! He's just part of the Lynch-mob.PlatoSaid said:Live on Fox
President has complete confidence in AG Lynch
I'll get my hood....0 -
Mr. Betting, Incitatus for President!
Prince of Taranto, I agree, but I don't think it's enough.0 -
Tim Montgomerie ن@montie
Last week's Labour message: Tories are only helping the City. This week's Labour message: Tories did too much to help car manufacturer0 -
Brazile sacked by CNN, she’s now the interim chair of the Democratic National Committee (DNC), a post she took over after Debbie Wasserman Schultz, who stepped down in the wake of leaked emails suggesting she and her staff fixed things in favour of Hillary Clinton over Bernie Sanders.- Wasserman Schultz then joined Clinton’s campaign team.TCPoliticalBetting said:
CNN rigging the debate for Clinton. Sadly as surprising that the Pope is a catholic. This is a very tainted election.PlatoSaid said:Howard Kurtosis
CNN has accepted Donna Brazile's resignation, saying it is "completely uncomfortable" with her leaking Qs in advance to the Clinton camp
A right old sleazy merry-go-round.
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Seconded. Most on here don't want Trump, are appalled by Trump, can't conceive how any rational person would vote for Trump....and aren't Americans and don't have a vote. Whichever way you look at this,as a minimum, 40-odd percent of Americans will vote for Trump. Trying to understand his appeal to them is far more worthy of scrutiny than the "Isn't he just AWFUL???" which is the contribution of all too many.TCPoliticalBetting said:
Plato has done this site a big service in posting contrary views to the 80%+ of the USA stuff that is pro-Clinton.Alistair said:
It's not foolish to follow the links. It's important to do so otherwise you might believe the libelous lies Plato posts.Gardenwalker said:
I foolishly followed these linksPlatoSaid said:Oh my word
Micro Spooky Leaks
#PodestaEmails24: "get a state department career lawyer to go through all the emails and delete the official ones" https://t.co/olfT4SEKJQ https://t.co/gJ2XWMkkcx0 -
Corbyn coming round to undiluted capitalism, interesting !TCPoliticalBetting said:Tim Montgomerie ن@montie
Last week's Labour message: Tories are only helping the City. This week's Labour message: Tories did too much to help car manufacturer0 -
What's that little symbol before the 'at' sign. Or is it just my laptop playing silly buggers.TCPoliticalBetting said:Tim Montgomerie ن@montie
Last week's Labour message: Tories are only helping the City. This week's Labour message: Tories did too much to help car manufacturer
i.e. Is it a new twitter fad or a poorly patched PC?0 -
For clarity, the Monmouth poll Plato was waving about was an Indiana state poll, not a national survey https://www.monmouth.edu/polling-institute/reports/MonmouthPoll_IN_103116/0
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That was never the point - if she had simply owned up and said 'It was Standard Operating Procedure for most of us' - it would have been over. But she didn't, she simply lied and then tried to conceal the extent of the security risk by using a 'bleaching' programme. Then Loretta Lynch met Bill Clinton.MarqueeMark said:
There's also this, which will become a talking point too:SimonStClare said:
You have a keen eye Mr Alistair – someone has swapped ‘pull the official ones’, for ‘delete the official ones’. – Safe to say however, it means the same thing.Alistair said:
The quote from the tweet doesn't match the linked e-mail.PlatoSaid said:Oh my word
Micro Spooky Leaks
#PodestaEmails24: "get a state department career lawyer to go through all the emails and delete the official ones" https://t.co/olfT4SEKJQ https://t.co/gJ2XWMkkcx
"Btw you know as well as I every god damn cabinet officer and WH staff uses there gmail account!"
So basically, all of Government has shit security....
The issue is about the lie, the appearance of one law for the little people, one law for the chosen.0 -
This is from last year, but clearly being reprised to demonstrate swamp behaviour.
John Podhortez
Obama DOJ colluded with IRS to seek criminal sanction against organizations opposing the president. This is big. https://t.co/tpxR2gAGCX
http://www.judicialwatch.org/press-room/press-releases/judicial-watch-new-documents-reveal-doj-irs-and-fbi-plan-to-seek-criminal-charges-of-obama-opponents/0 -
I'm sure the voters of Sunderland have noticed that Labour would have thrown them to the wolves.....TCPoliticalBetting said:Tim Montgomerie ن@montie
Last week's Labour message: Tories are only helping the City. This week's Labour message: Tories did too much to help car manufacturer0 -
Even quite a lot of people who will vote for Trump are appalled by him. But, they're more appalled by the alternative.MarqueeMark said:
Seconded. Most on here don't want Trump, are appalled by Trump, can't conceive how any rational person would vote for Trump....and aren't Americans and don't have a vote. Whichever way you look at this,as a minimum, 40-odd percent of Americans will vote for Trump. Trying to understand his appeal to them is far more worthy of scrutiny than the "Isn't he just AWFUL???" which is the contribution of all too many.TCPoliticalBetting said:
Plato has done this site a big service in posting contrary views to the 80%+ of the USA stuff that is pro-Clinton.Alistair said:
It's not foolish to follow the links. It's important to do so otherwise you might believe the libelous lies Plato posts.Gardenwalker said:
I foolishly followed these linksPlatoSaid said:Oh my word
Micro Spooky Leaks
#PodestaEmails24: "get a state department career lawyer to go through all the emails and delete the official ones" https://t.co/olfT4SEKJQ https://t.co/gJ2XWMkkcx0 -
And yet people on this site unashamedly support Clinton when it is obvious that the epithet Trump attached to her is totally accurate. She is now under 2 1/2 FBI investigations.SimonStClare said:
Brazile sacked by CNN, she’s now the interim chair of the Democratic National Committee (DNC), a post she took over after Debbie Wasserman Schultz, who stepped down in the wake of leaked emails suggesting she and her staff fixed things in favour of Hillary Clinton over Bernie Sanders.- Wasserman Schultz then joined Clinton’s campaign team.TCPoliticalBetting said:
CNN rigging the debate for Clinton. Sadly as surprising that the Pope is a catholic. This is a very tainted election.PlatoSaid said:Howard Kurtosis
CNN has accepted Donna Brazile's resignation, saying it is "completely uncomfortable" with her leaking Qs in advance to the Clinton camp
A right old sleazy merry-go-round.0 -
Unless women in Indiana are wired differently, it's reasonable to think that a big swing could be relevant elsewhere.Jobabob said:For clarity, the Monmouth poll Plato was waving about was an Indiana state poll, not a national survey https://www.monmouth.edu/polling-institute/reports/MonmouthPoll_IN_103116/
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Waiting for instructions on how to play Dikileaks. Either that or he has seen the light.MonikerDiCanio said:Where's 619 ?
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Give over. She's not Edward Murrow, she's a peddler of Twitter junk. And the occasional deceit, as we've just seen.MarqueeMark said:
Seconded. Most on here don't want Trump, are appalled by Trump, can't conceive how any rational person would vote for Trump....and aren't Americans and don't have a vote. Whichever way you look at this,as a minimum, 40-odd percent of Americans will vote for Trump. Trying to understand his appeal to them is far more worthy of scrutiny than the "Isn't he just AWFUL???" which is the contribution of all too many.TCPoliticalBetting said:
Plato has done this site a big service in posting contrary views to the 80%+ of the USA stuff that is pro-Clinton.Alistair said:
It's not foolish to follow the links. It's important to do so otherwise you might believe the libelous lies Plato posts.Gardenwalker said:
I foolishly followed these linksPlatoSaid said:Oh my word
Micro Spooky Leaks
#PodestaEmails24: "get a state department career lawyer to go through all the emails and delete the official ones" https://t.co/olfT4SEKJQ https://t.co/gJ2XWMkkcx
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It's a state poll - Indiana only - but given news of last half-hour the email story is going to run. https://www.monmouth.edu/polling-institute/reports/MonmouthPoll_IN_103116/MarqueeMark said:
That really is huge news. I wonder what difference it made with men? Presumably significantly less, as they were already going to Trump in bigger numbers, but if there is a noteable move there too - this could yet be a fascinating week....PlatoSaid said:Gabby Morrongiella
ALSO via Monmouth:
– Clinton led Trump by 9 pts among women 2 weeks ago. Now he's up 47-42
– 4% of voters said FBI news changed their vote0 -
20% GOP faithful + 10% desperate for a change from the status quo + 10% true trump believersMarqueeMark said:
Seconded. Most on here don't want Trump, are appalled by Trump, can't conceive how any rational person would vote for Trump....and aren't Americans and don't have a vote. Whichever way you look at this,as a minimum, 40-odd percent of Americans will vote for Trump. Trying to understand his appeal to them is far more worthy of scrutiny than the "Isn't he just AWFUL???" which is the contribution of all too many.TCPoliticalBetting said:
Plato has done this site a big service in posting contrary views to the 80%+ of the USA stuff that is pro-Clinton.Alistair said:
It's not foolish to follow the links. It's important to do so otherwise you might believe the libelous lies Plato posts.Gardenwalker said:
I foolishly followed these linksPlatoSaid said:Oh my word
Micro Spooky Leaks
#PodestaEmails24: "get a state department career lawyer to go through all the emails and delete the official ones" https://t.co/olfT4SEKJQ https://t.co/gJ2XWMkkcx
Actual % values may vary (I haven't convinced myself), but I think the categories are pretty reasonable.0 -
Plato, are you pro Trump?PlatoSaid said:Live on Fox
President has complete confidence in AG Lynch
As posted below by others you've (as always) posted some good stuff. Some of which has been a balance to the comfortable assumption of a Clinton victory.
Trump may win, and Trump may have all sorts of good things on his side, but I struggle to see beyond the buffoon.
(If I was a US citizen I'd vote for Hillary because her sort of corruption and nastiness is just what we've (they've) always had.)0 -
Mr. F, quite.
Whoever it was who described it as Cherie Blair versus Nigel Farage had a pretty good handle on it.
Edited extra bit: that said, I think both of those would be better than either of the US contenders.0 -
I wouldn't base any substantive judgement on a poll of 402 !!williamglenn said:
Unless women in Indiana are wired differently, it's reasonable to think that a big swing could be relevant elsewhere.Jobabob said:For clarity, the Monmouth poll Plato was waving about was an Indiana state poll, not a national survey https://www.monmouth.edu/polling-institute/reports/MonmouthPoll_IN_103116/
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http://www.euronews.com/2014/07/22/how-an-arabic-letter-was-reclaimed-to-support-iraqs-persecuted-christians-nAnorak said:
What's that little symbol before the 'at' sign. Or is it just my laptop playing silly buggers.TCPoliticalBetting said:Tim Montgomerie ن@montie
Last week's Labour message: Tories are only helping the City. This week's Labour message: Tories did too much to help car manufacturer
i.e. Is it a new twitter fad or a poorly patched PC?0 -
I think it's that race on steroids. Nige isn't as bad as Trump and Cherie is probably not as corrupt as Clinton.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. F, quite.
Whoever it was who described it as Cherie Blair versus Nigel Farage had a pretty good handle on it.
Edited extra bit: that said, I think both of those would be better than either of the US contenders.0 -
24 is the new 'gold standard' "n" 8)JackW said:
I wouldn't base any substantive judgement on a poll of 402 !!williamglenn said:
Unless women in Indiana are wired differently, it's reasonable to think that a big swing could be relevant elsewhere.Jobabob said:For clarity, the Monmouth poll Plato was waving about was an Indiana state poll, not a national survey https://www.monmouth.edu/polling-institute/reports/MonmouthPoll_IN_103116/
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Mr. Max, yeah, it's not a great choice. Mind you, we've got Corbyn as Leader of the Opposition, so there's not much room for smugness.
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Who are these unashamed supporters?weejonnie said:
And yet people on this site unashamedly support Clinton when it is obvious that the epithet Trump attached to her is totally accurate. She is now under 2 1/2 FBI investigations.SimonStClare said:
Brazile sacked by CNN, she’s now the interim chair of the Democratic National Committee (DNC), a post she took over after Debbie Wasserman Schultz, who stepped down in the wake of leaked emails suggesting she and her staff fixed things in favour of Hillary Clinton over Bernie Sanders.- Wasserman Schultz then joined Clinton’s campaign team.TCPoliticalBetting said:
CNN rigging the debate for Clinton. Sadly as surprising that the Pope is a catholic. This is a very tainted election.PlatoSaid said:Howard Kurtosis
CNN has accepted Donna Brazile's resignation, saying it is "completely uncomfortable" with her leaking Qs in advance to the Clinton camp
A right old sleazy merry-go-round.
The sheer awfulness of Trump forces one to support Clinton. Having said that, and despite the untold FBI investigations, wiki-leaks, dickyleaks and whatever bull kaka Plato can find on Twitter and Breitbart --- I've yet to see a smoking gun on Hillary.
Perhaps the crooked Hillary thing is an alt-right fantasy after all?
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I believe this book is being touted as a good explanation for what's happening:Anorak said:
20% GOP faithful + 10% desperate for a change from the status quo + 10% true trump believersMarqueeMark said:
Seconded. Most on here don't want Trump, are appalled by Trump, can't conceive how any rational person would vote for Trump....and aren't Americans and don't have a vote. Whichever way you look at this,as a minimum, 40-odd percent of Americans will vote for Trump. Trying to understand his appeal to them is far more worthy of scrutiny than the "Isn't he just AWFUL???" which is the contribution of all too many.TCPoliticalBetting said:
Plato has done this site a big service in posting contrary views to the 80%+ of the USA stuff that is pro-Clinton.Alistair said:
It's not foolish to follow the links. It's important to do so otherwise you might believe the libelous lies Plato posts.Gardenwalker said:
I foolishly followed these linksPlatoSaid said:Oh my word
Micro Spooky Leaks
#PodestaEmails24: "get a state department career lawyer to go through all the emails and delete the official ones" https://t.co/olfT4SEKJQ https://t.co/gJ2XWMkkcx
Actual % values may vary (I haven't convinced myself), but I think the categories are pretty reasonable.
Hillbilly Elegy: A Memoir of a Family and Culture in Crisis by J. D. Vance
It attempts to explain what deindustrialisation has meant for real people on the ground.0 -
And that's why you don't understand why flyover America is so mad. Their income has been slashed while those on the coasts who play the markets have been given free money to keep gambling. Main street is seething, and wants a total reset.MarqueeMark said:
Seconded. Most on here don't want Trump, are appalled by Trump, can't conceive how any rational person would vote for Trump....and aren't Americans and don't have a vote. Whichever way you look at this,as a minimum, 40-odd percent of Americans will vote for Trump. Trying to understand his appeal to them is far more worthy of scrutiny than the "Isn't he just AWFUL???" which is the contribution of all too many.TCPoliticalBetting said:
Plato has done this site a big service in posting contrary views to the 80%+ of the USA stuff that is pro-Clinton.Alistair said:
It's not foolish to follow the links. It's important to do so otherwise you might believe the libelous lies Plato posts.Gardenwalker said:
I foolishly followed these linksPlatoSaid said:Oh my word
Micro Spooky Leaks
#PodestaEmails24: "get a state department career lawyer to go through all the emails and delete the official ones" https://t.co/olfT4SEKJQ https://t.co/gJ2XWMkkcx
In that way there is a similarity to Brexit, in that low and middle income wage earners feel that they have been totally screwed for years and want a change to the order of things, where honest toil and 'Mom & Pop' business risk is rewarded. The hardware store owner should be able to live a reasonable life, and should never be asked to bail out financial gamblers. Both the Fed and the EU are seen by these people as the prop up for the financial gamblers.0 -
Wouldn't it be nice to have a spreadsheet on US election night which tells us which candidate is performing better than expected as the results come in.0
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I regret we're going to go through this storm of over-reaction every time an unusual poll or morsel of seemingly insightful information hits twitter et al.Pulpstar said:
24 is the new 'gold standard' "n" 8)JackW said:
I wouldn't base any substantive judgement on a poll of 402 !!williamglenn said:
Unless women in Indiana are wired differently, it's reasonable to think that a big swing could be relevant elsewhere.Jobabob said:For clarity, the Monmouth poll Plato was waving about was an Indiana state poll, not a national survey https://www.monmouth.edu/polling-institute/reports/MonmouthPoll_IN_103116/
PBers need to keep their focus on reliable state polling, correct early voting data and above all ....
FOP !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!0 -
I'd now accept PJ O'Rourke's view that Clinton is "wrong within normal parameters." She's sleazy and left wing, but you could at least trust her with the nuclear firing codes. I'm not sure you could trust Trump with them.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. F, quite.
Whoever it was who described it as Cherie Blair versus Nigel Farage had a pretty good handle on it.
Edited extra bit: that said, I think both of those would be better than either of the US contenders.
But, I hope the Republicans retain the House and Senate.0 -
It would!AndyJS said:Wouldn't it be nice to have a spreadsheet on US election night which tells us which candidate is performing better than expected as the results come in.
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Perhaps tens of millions of American voters aren't looking for as high a standard of absolute proof that you seem to need before doubting St Hillary.Gardenwalker said:The sheer awfulness of Trump forces one to support Clinton. Having said that, and despite the untold FBI investigations, wiki-leaks, dickyleaks and whatever bull kaka Plato can find on Twitter and Breitbart --- I've yet to see a smoking gun on Hillary.
Perhaps the crooked Hillary thing is an alt-right fantasy after all?
If Trump was as sheer awful to them as he is to you, then why did Hillary not just stand atop the moral high ground and enjoy the view? Instead, she's down in the sewers trying to out-sleaze Trump.
Or maybe, just maybe, that is the only operating procedure she knows?
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It would be terrific – I think we’re all hoping you have produced the goods (again)..!AndyJS said:Wouldn't it be nice to have a spreadsheet on US election night which tells us which candidate is performing better than expected as the results come in.
Have you?
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It came through with Montie's post.Anorak said:
What's that little symbol before the 'at' sign. Or is it just my laptop playing silly buggers.TCPoliticalBetting said:Tim Montgomerie ن@montie
Last week's Labour message: Tories are only helping the City. This week's Labour message: Tories did too much to help car manufacturer
i.e. Is it a new twitter fad or a poorly patched PC?
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I assume the states will roll in their votes on the various networks at roughly the same order as last time.Richard_Nabavi said:
It would!AndyJS said:Wouldn't it be nice to have a spreadsheet on US election night which tells us which candidate is performing better than expected as the results come in.
A schedule would be a good place to start.0 -
BBC News at 6 opening statement. "anger at ... govt decision... into the worst clashes of the miners strike ...." "Govt accused of a ... stitch up"
"Images of violence" commentary as police on horses rush forward.
Nothing about the stone and rock throwing at the police.
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But 4.8 on 538AndyJS said:Clinton's lead down to 2.5 points:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_clinton-5491.html
http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/indiana/0 -
I suspect that there's a certain cohort of Remain ultras - and not just in Labour - who will have felt very let down by the fact that Nissan didn't pull the plug, on the new models at least if not on the entire plant. Firstly, because they would be pleased to see people in Sunderland punished for having helped to take their previous EU membership card away. Secondly, to be able to crow over an event which might be claimed to have proven them right. And thirdly, because the best of the slim chances they have of reversing the referendum result is to block A50, and that could probably only be achieved by having such an avalanche of economic disasters (that could be pinned on Brexit) strike the country in rapid succession, that a significant number of Tory MPs might be willing to think twice about pushing the button.MarqueeMark said:
I'm sure the voters of Sunderland have noticed that Labour would have thrown them to the wolves.....TCPoliticalBetting said:Tim Montgomerie ن@montie
Last week's Labour message: Tories are only helping the City. This week's Labour message: Tories did too much to help car manufacturer
Purely on the issue of Labour and Sunderland, there is about as much chance of any of the Sunderland seats giving their Labour MPs the elbow as there is of me discovering the Unified Field Theory and winning the Nobel Prize in Physics. They're the very epitome of red rosette on a pig territory.0 -
The problem with Clinton is at least three-fold:Sean_F said:
I'd now accept PJ O'Rourke's view that Clinton is "wrong within normal parameters." She's sleazy and left wing, but you could at least trust her with the nuclear firing codes. I'm not sure you could trust Trump with them.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. F, quite.
Whoever it was who described it as Cherie Blair versus Nigel Farage had a pretty good handle on it.
Edited extra bit: that said, I think both of those would be better than either of the US contenders.
But, I hope the Republicans retain the House and Senate.
1. The Clinton Foundation has clearly been used to buy favour from the Clintons. Hillary can say she (and Bill) has never personally benefitted, but *at best* it's an appalling look for someone who hopes to be President. She ought to have shut it down or placed into a clearly independent trusteeship.
2. She hasn't come up through classic, community or issue-centred political activity. She's come up by gaining control of the DNC and by being Bill's wife. She has no bedrock of support outside the party. Hence she is quite unloved - she's never really had to mobilise political support in the real world.
3. As the wife of a former President, her candidacy perpetuates a grotesque incestuousness in US political circles.
For all that, I've seen nothing to suggest she's done anything illegal. She has administrative experience in both domestic and foreign policy. She would be respected abroad.
She's clearly the "best" candidate.
I'm hoping Trump goes down big time and the Republicans lose everything going. They need a historic defeat to rediscover their principles and their raison d'etre.0 -
It's difficult because you only get partial results from the US, not final ones from each area as is the case in this country.SimonStClare said:
It would be terrific – I think we’re all hoping you have produced the goods (again)..!AndyJS said:Wouldn't it be nice to have a spreadsheet on US election night which tells us which candidate is performing better than expected as the results come in.
Have you?0 -
Just watching the Six O' Clock News, and a succession of faux-enraged Labour MPs bellowing about "justice" and "establishment stitch-ups" over Orgreave.
Makes you wonder why they didn't hold a public inquiry during their thirteen years in power, doesn't it?0 -
Black_Rook said:
I suspect that there's a certain cohort of Remain ultras - and not just in Labour - who will have felt very let down by the fact that Nissan didn't pull the plug, on the new models at least if not on the entire plant. Firstly, because they would be pleased to see people in Sunderland punished for having helped to take their previous EU membership card away. Secondly, to be able to crow over an event which might be claimed to have proven them right. And thirdly, because the best of the slim chances they have of reversing the referendum result is to block A50, and that could probably only be achieved by having such an avalanche of economic disasters (that could be pinned on Brexit) strike the country in rapid succession, that a significant number of Tory MPs might be willing to think twice about pushing the button.MarqueeMark said:
I'm sure the voters of Sunderland have noticed that Labour would have thrown them to the wolves.....TCPoliticalBetting said:Tim Montgomerie ن@montie
Last week's Labour message: Tories are only helping the City. This week's Labour message: Tories did too much to help car manufacturer
Purely on the issue of Labour and Sunderland, there is about as much chance of any of the Sunderland seats giving their Labour MPs the elbow as there is of me discovering the Unified Field Theory and winning the Nobel Prize in Physics. They're the very epitome of red rosette on a pig territory.0 -
They said that in Scotland too.....!Black_Rook said:
I suspect that there's a certain cohort of Remain ultras - and not just in Labour - who will have felt very let down by the fact that Nissan didn't pull the plug, on the new models at least if not on the entire plant. Firstly, because they would be pleased to see people in Sunderland punished for having helped to take their previous EU membership card away. Secondly, to be able to crow over an event which might be claimed to have proven them right. And thirdly, because the best of the slim chances they have of reversing the referendum result is to block A50, and that could probably only be achieved by having such an avalanche of economic disasters (that could be pinned on Brexit) strike the country in rapid succession, that a significant number of Tory MPs might be willing to think twice about pushing the button.MarqueeMark said:
I'm sure the voters of Sunderland have noticed that Labour would have thrown them to the wolves.....TCPoliticalBetting said:Tim Montgomerie ن@montie
Last week's Labour message: Tories are only helping the City. This week's Labour message: Tories did too much to help car manufacturer
Purely on the issue of Labour and Sunderland, there is about as much chance of any of the Sunderland seats giving their Labour MPs the elbow as there is of me discovering the Unified Field Theory and winning the Nobel Prize in Physics. They're the very epitome of red rosette on a pig territory.0
