politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Another debate, another victory for Hillary
Comments
-
Did they? From Martin Boon's tweets I got the impression they pulled the plug after they moved the markets and it was too much corporate risk, both in getting it wrong and further affecting the markets, as the vote approached.TheScreamingEagles said:
No they didn't. They had exclusivity with a campaign group.Casino_Royale said:
ICM basically bottled it.Sean_F said:
It's a pity that ICM didn't poll Brexit in the last week. I expect they'd have come close.edmundintokyo said:
Also ICM was and is a very good pollster with an excellent track record, which is definitely not true of the LA Times or Rasmussen.david_herdson said:
"Bet from the head not the heart" is sound advice. If anything, I tend to overcompensate.JennyFreeman said:
Don't be patronising David, you're better than that.david_herdson said:
I love unintended irony.JennyFreeman said:
Trump is actually ahead or tied in three of the latest polls.CarlottaVance said:
..ToryJim said:Interesting analysis of the 3 debates
http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/10/19/13340828/hillary-clinton-debate-trump-won
Be careful what you look for.
My point was a betting one. All my best bets have been the ones where I stripped out my desires and wants. Bet from the head, not the heart.
But I'm sorry; to say "Be careful what you look for" at the same time as posting "Trump is actually ahead or tied in three of the latest polls" does at the least suggest selective vision.
FWIW, the better comparison would be with GE2015, when the Tories outperformed all the polling but one firm (ICM?) consistently gave them leads of 3-6, which while still short, looked at the time like a methodological error. In fact, they were closest to being on the ball.
However, in that election, the subsidiary data suggested that there might be something wrong with the top line; in this one, it reinforces the impression that they're in synch.0 -
Lib Dem HQ Diversity @LibDemDiversity
.@timfarron will be the keynote speaker at an event marking #BlackHistoryMonth at Queen Mary Uni, London. RSVP via http://bit.ly/2ek3F8h
-----------
In the history of the Lib Dems they once had one Asian MP.
0 -
And even if it happens, you will lose.Theuniondivvie said:It's definitely not gonna happen though.
Definitely, definitely not.
https://twitter.com/GrayInGlasgow/status/789028032644255744
https://twitter.com/GrayInGlasgow/status/789028634577305600
https://twitter.com/GrayInGlasgow/status/7890307403233689600 -
They are the tallest dwarf ?FF43 said:
Whatever happens, the territorial integrity of Scotland is rock-solid. The Tweed-Solway line has defined the border for a thousand years. There is hardly a country in Europe that is as geographically and demographically coherent as Scotland.TGOHF said:
The Borders should hold their own referendum on staying in the Uk if Scotland votes for Sindy in the future .david_herdson said:
That was my impression based on some of the past Holyrood elections but I didn't want to be so firm about it as I've not had chance to look at either the proposed constituencies or the current numbers in detail.Alistair said:
On 14% of the vote the Conservatives almost had two borders MPs. With 20s they would sweep the South.david_herdson said:
That will depend on the polls. Tory strength across the Borders (which is also one of the SNP's weakest areas, in relative terms), should be sufficient to return at least one Tory MP if the Scottish national outcome is something like the high-40s / low-to-mid-20s in current polls. Labour, on the other hand, having gone backwards since 2015 and looking at a horrible result in the local elections next year, further weakening their base and their relevance, will be in a lot more trouble if they can't recover or if the SNP don't decline from present levels.CarlottaVance said:
Talking of which, had a chance to cast your eye over the new Scottish constituencies?DavidL said:There are just far too many safe seats in Congress.
Extinction level events for the Tories & Labour?0 -
Mr. 43, not sure that's quite right.
I agree on the current land border being rock solid but during the 11th and 12th centuries (and a bit after that too) the border wibbled quite a bit, I think.
As for coherency, aren't England and Wales in precisely the same boat?0 -
I would argue that 1997 was one too - Blair was clearly Prime-Ministerial, and Major had been doing it for 7 years already. It wasn't Major that was the Tories issue so much as the whole party.david_herdson said:
Britain has been remarkably lucky in how often one of the two main candidates has been of PM-quality given how often the other one hasn't. Since 1979, I can only think of 2005 as an occasion when both were or would have been up to the job.TGOHF said:The lack of a quality candidate is an issue for the Uk too - look at the Uk - apart from Blair, Major, Cameron and maybe Clegg and Farage we have had a poor crop of prospective PMs.
2020 we could have 2 duffers going head to head potentially.0 -
Another gerrymander.Theuniondivvie said:It's definitely not gonna happen though.
Definitely, definitely not.
https://twitter.com/GrayInGlasgow/status/789028032644255744
https://twitter.com/GrayInGlasgow/status/789028634577305600
https://twitter.com/GrayInGlasgow/status/789030740323368960
What about Scots living outside Scotland,not least those living in the rest of the U.K.?
Why don't they get to vote on the future of the country they were born in?0 -
I still would be cautious. However, I'm sure you'd accept that the Borders are one of the SNP's relatively weaker areas, that support for the Union was stronger there than elsewhere, that the Conservatives retain a decent presence in the south of Scotland and that there has been a tendency to tactical intra-unionist voting so putting all that together, there must be at least the potential for further Con gains there if the current polling is realised (after all, Berwickshire and the rest very nearly produced a second win as it was). Of course, that's a big 'if'.malcolmg said:
We back to a Tory "Surge" dream now. You were right to be very cautious David.david_herdson said:
That was my impression based on some of the past Holyrood elections but I didn't want to be so firm about it as I've not had chance to look at either the proposed constituencies or the current numbers in detail.Alistair said:
On 14% of the vote the Conservatives almost had two borders MPs. With 20s they would sweep the South.david_herdson said:
That will depend on the polls. Tory strength across the Borders (which is also one of the SNP's weakest areas, in relative terms), should be sufficient to return at least one Tory MP if the Scottish national outcome is something like the high-40s / low-to-mid-20s in current polls. Labour, on the other hand, having gone backwards since 2015 and looking at a horrible result in the local elections next year, further weakening their base and their relevance, will be in a lot more trouble if they can't recover or if the SNP don't decline from present levels.CarlottaVance said:
Talking of which, had a chance to cast your eye over the new Scottish constituencies?DavidL said:There are just far too many safe seats in Congress.
Extinction level events for the Tories & Labour?0 -
The Darien border obviously airbrushed from these calculations..Morris_Dancer said:Mr. 43, not sure that's quite right.
I agree on the current land border being rock solid but during the 11th and 12th centuries (and a bit after that too) the border wibbled quite a bit, I think.
As for coherency, aren't England and Wales in precisely the same boat?0 -
God forbid Hillary wins and is assasinated, but should that come to pass, will Trump be in the dock?TheScreamingEagles said:
Yup. But he could be more explicit on election night.OldKingCole said:
Hasn’t he already done that?TheScreamingEagles said:
He could ask his Second Ammendment loving supporters to exercise their rights on the streets and outside the White House and Congress.GIN1138 said:If Trump didn't "accept" the result, other than standing up and saying "I don't accept the result" what, practically, could he do?
Incidentally, if a President-Elect is unable(!) to be inauguarated, does the VP automatically take over?0 -
They got the vote in the last referendum and overwhelmingly voted no.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Divvie, highly questionable for EU citizens to have the vote. [I also disagree with 16 and 17 year olds getting it, but that precedent has not been affected by the referendum result whereas EU citizens have].
0 -
There are valid criticisms to be made of US foreign policy at the time - and arguably opportunities for detente with the Kruschchev regime were missed under both Eisenhower and Kennedy - but to call it "absurd", in the context of the Soviet occupation of Eastern Europe, the secrecy on (and resulting mistrust between) both sides, and the legacy of the mass murder Stalin, is overegging it a bit.david_herdson said:
One of the problems with American politics of the day was the absurd aggressiveness of its foreign policy, borne of an unexpected and unprepared for global dominance post-1945. That the Kennedy administration's handling of the Cuban missile question - a naval blockade, the consideration until the last minute of strikes against Cuba, the refusal to accept equivalence between the US and USSR - could in any way be considered 'appeasement' is very telling. They were continually prepared to countenance global war in defence of that dominance and the fact that others were even more gung-ho doesn't change that.TheScreamingEagles said:
You could argue that the Cuban missile crisis showed JFK as an appeaser, but I call it realpolitik.CD13 said:The Alien vs Predator contest has come to life in America, and it looks likely that Alien will win.
A machine politician whose claim to fame being that she married Bill. My only problem with her is that she will become a puppet of the administration. Whether that's good or bad remains to be seen.
I looked into the circumstances of the Cuban Missile Crisis and JFK was anything but a puppet. Had he heeded the counselling of many of his advisors (Curtis le May, for example), we might not be here. He definitely wouldn't have been voted in nowadays.0 -
@Morris_Dancer
'Mr. Divvie, highly questionable for EU citizens to have the vote. [I also disagree with 16 and 17 year olds getting it, but that precedent has not been affected by the referendum result whereas EU citizens have].'
Surprised SNP haven't dropped the voting age to 15 in their desperation to try & get a yes vote.
0 -
So residents of a country that can vote for Holyrood & council elections, could vote in a previous indy referendum and who are directly affected by the 'material change of circumstances' of Brexit shouldn't be able to vote in Indy II?Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Divvie, highly questionable for EU citizens to have the vote. [I also disagree with 16 and 17 year olds getting it, but that precedent has not been affected by the referendum result whereas EU citizens have].
0 -
We'll be having Berwick back then.FF43 said:
Whatever happens, the territorial integrity of Scotland is rock-solid. The Tweed-Solway line has defined the border for a thousand years. There is hardly a country in Europe that is as geographically and demographically coherent as Scotland.TGOHF said:
The Borders should hold their own referendum on staying in the Uk if Scotland votes for Sindy in the future .david_herdson said:
That was my impression based on some of the past Holyrood elections but I didn't want to be so firm about it as I've not had chance to look at either the proposed constituencies or the current numbers in detail.Alistair said:
On 14% of the vote the Conservatives almost had two borders MPs. With 20s they would sweep the South.david_herdson said:
That will depend on the polls. Tory strength across the Borders (which is also one of the SNP's weakest areas, in relative terms), should be sufficient to return at least one Tory MP if the Scottish national outcome is something like the high-40s / low-to-mid-20s in current polls. Labour, on the other hand, having gone backwards since 2015 and looking at a horrible result in the local elections next year, further weakening their base and their relevance, will be in a lot more trouble if they can't recover or if the SNP don't decline from present levels.CarlottaVance said:
Talking of which, had a chance to cast your eye over the new Scottish constituencies?DavidL said:There are just far too many safe seats in Congress.
Extinction level events for the Tories & Labour?0 -
I agree. Wonderfully indiscreet, I came on PB this AM to recommend it (from Guido link).TheScreamingEagles said:Must read by Daniel Korksi who was Dave's Deputy Director of Policy, on why Remain lost
http://www.politico.eu/article/why-we-lost-the-brexit-vote-former-uk-prime-minister-david-cameron/
0 -
No harm in asking. Other areas might also be eager to escape the central belt stranglehold.FF43 said:
Whatever happens, the territorial integrity of Scotland is rock-solid. The Tweed-Solway line has defined the border for a thousand years. There is hardly a country in Europe that is as geographically and demographically coherent as Scotland.TGOHF said:
The Borders should hold their own referendum on staying in the Uk if Scotland votes for Sindy in the future .david_herdson said:
That was my impression based on some of the past Holyrood elections but I didn't want to be so firm about it as I've not had chance to look at either the proposed constituencies or the current numbers in detail.Alistair said:
On 14% of the vote the Conservatives almost had two borders MPs. With 20s they would sweep the South.david_herdson said:
That will depend on the polls. Tory strength across the Borders (which is also one of the SNP's weakest areas, in relative terms), should be sufficient to return at least one Tory MP if the Scottish national outcome is something like the high-40s / low-to-mid-20s in current polls. Labour, on the other hand, having gone backwards since 2015 and looking at a horrible result in the local elections next year, further weakening their base and their relevance, will be in a lot more trouble if they can't recover or if the SNP don't decline from present levels.CarlottaVance said:
Talking of which, had a chance to cast your eye over the new Scottish constituencies?DavidL said:There are just far too many safe seats in Congress.
Extinction level events for the Tories & Labour?0 -
Possibly but the point I was really trying to make was that those not doing well economically are largely right be peed off but are opting for the wrong solution in Trump and Brexit.rottenborough said:
It is easy to say globalisation has made everything worse, but is this backed by any evidence? It is quite possible that widespread protectionism over the last 30 years would have made things worse.OllyT said:
When in history was it ever really any different? It is getting worse not better with globalisation and I don't criticise those left behind for being angry behind but I do question what they see as the solution (Brexit and Trump).Paul_Bedfordshire said:
And the mob in Workington, West Virginia, Wroclaw and Vladivostok have observed that the rich in those places care only about the rich in each others places, and not a fig for the rest; and are starting to vote accordingly.foxinsoxuk said:
I don't think America can stop the rot. Its hegemony has been in decline for decades.JosiasJessop said:To my mind, there's a bigger question than who wins the presidency. It's whether America can stop the rot.
There are big problems in the US at the moment. Without getting all SeanT over this, it's still the greatest country in the world, but other countries are yapping at its heels, wanting its place.
The problem is that Americans cannot agree on what the problems are, yet alone the solutions. They just have a nagging feeling that their rightful position is being threatened.
America being usurped by China and/or others is not inevitable. China itself faces significant problems. But America is being thrust forwards by inertia, not leadership. And four or eight years of Trump or Clinton won't fix this. Neither have the capability of bringing the country together.
I doubt their broken political system will allow such a leader to reach a position where they could do any good. Their political system is utterly broken, and the last system you would choose if you wanted real democracy.
Having said all that, I have little doubt that Trump would accelerate the rot. As such, Clinton is the best choice for America. Which in itself is a symbol of their malaise.
We are looking at the flipside of globalisation, where the rich look more like each other whether in London, California, Shanghai and Mumbai, and the mob look like each other too, whether in Ohio or Kyiv.0 -
Unless some of the islands go independent?FF43 said:
Whatever happens, the territorial integrity of Scotland is rock-solid. The Tweed-Solway line has defined the border for a thousand years. There is hardly a country in Europe that is as geographically and demographically coherent as Scotland.TGOHF said:
The Borders should hold their own referendum on staying in the Uk if Scotland votes for Sindy in the future .david_herdson said:
That was my impression based on some of the past Holyrood elections but I didn't want to be so firm about it as I've not had chance to look at either the proposed constituencies or the current numbers in detail.Alistair said:
On 14% of the vote the Conservatives almost had two borders MPs. With 20s they would sweep the South.david_herdson said:
That will depend on the polls. Tory strength across the Borders (which is also one of the SNP's weakest areas, in relative terms), should be sufficient to return at least one Tory MP if the Scottish national outcome is something like the high-40s / low-to-mid-20s in current polls. Labour, on the other hand, having gone backwards since 2015 and looking at a horrible result in the local elections next year, further weakening their base and their relevance, will be in a lot more trouble if they can't recover or if the SNP don't decline from present levels.CarlottaVance said:
Talking of which, had a chance to cast your eye over the new Scottish constituencies?DavidL said:There are just far too many safe seats in Congress.
Extinction level events for the Tories & Labour?0 -
I don't think he'd be needing a Mayor Daley this year. Trump is a far, far weaker candidate than Nixon was. A different GOP candidate - one without Trump's personal background - might be able to make a lot of JFK's indiscretions but were he magically transported fifty years into the future from his actual life, he'd have been more than capable of beating both Hillary in the primaries and Trump in the general.TheScreamingEagles said:
With or without Richard Daley?david_herdson said:
Really? Suppose it were the 1960 version of him vs Trump this year - how do you think the election would go?CD13 said:The Alien vs Predator contest has come to life in America, and it looks likely that Alien will win.
A machine politician whose claim to fame being that she married Bill. My only problem with her is that she will become a puppet of the administration. Whether that's good or bad remains to be seen.
I looked into the circumstances of the Cuban Missile Crisis and JFK was anything but a puppet. Had he heeded the counselling of many of his advisors (Curtis le May, for example), we might not be here. He definitely wouldn't have been voted in nowadays.0 -
Mr. Alistair, yes, but the situation for the EU has changed rather substantially since then.
It would be allowing foreign citizens to vote on breaking up another country with a view to having the break-away bit then rejoin the same supra-national body to which those foreign citizens' countries belong whilst harming the larger part of the country that split.
Tiny bit of a conflict of interest, there.0 -
Because Scotland isn't obsessed about bloodlines?Gardenwalker said:
Another gerrymander.Theuniondivvie said:It's definitely not gonna happen though.
Definitely, definitely not.
https://twitter.com/GrayInGlasgow/status/789028032644255744
https://twitter.com/GrayInGlasgow/status/789028634577305600
https://twitter.com/GrayInGlasgow/status/789030740323368960
What about Scots living outside Scotland,not least those living in the rest of the U.K.?
Why don't they get to vote on the future of the country they were born in?
Maybe you are big on blood and soil Nationalism.0 -
I'm surprised they haven't banned anyone over 60 voting as they wont be around anyway.john_zims said:@Morris_Dancer
'Mr. Divvie, highly questionable for EU citizens to have the vote. [I also disagree with 16 and 17 year olds getting it, but that precedent has not been affected by the referendum result whereas EU citizens have].'
Surprised SNP haven't dropped the voting age to 15 in their desperation to try & get a yes vote.0 -
Except that Shetland and Orkney have their moments.FF43 said:
Whatever happens, the territorial integrity of Scotland is rock-solid. The Tweed-Solway line has defined the border for a thousand years. There is hardly a country in Europe that is as geographically and demographically coherent as Scotland.TGOHF said:
The Borders should hold their own referendum on staying in the Uk if Scotland votes for Sindy in the future .david_herdson said:
That was my impression based on some of the past Holyrood elections but I didn't want to be so firm about it as I've not had chance to look at either the proposed constituencies or the current numbers in detail.Alistair said:
On 14% of the vote the Conservatives almost had two borders MPs. With 20s they would sweep the South.david_herdson said:
That will depend on the polls. Tory strength across the Borders (which is also one of the SNP's weakest areas, in relative terms), should be sufficient to return at least one Tory MP if the Scottish national outcome is something like the high-40s / low-to-mid-20s in current polls. Labour, on the other hand, having gone backwards since 2015 and looking at a horrible result in the local elections next year, further weakening their base and their relevance, will be in a lot more trouble if they can't recover or if the SNP don't decline from present levels.CarlottaVance said:
Talking of which, had a chance to cast your eye over the new Scottish constituencies?DavidL said:There are just far too many safe seats in Congress.
Extinction level events for the Tories & Labour?0 -
That's not actually an unreasonable suggestion, is that not basically what has happened with Northern Ireland when Ireland went Indy?TGOHF said:
The Borders should hold their own referendum on staying in the Uk if Scotland votes for Sindy in the future .david_herdson said:
That was my impression based on some of the past Holyrood elections but I didn't want to be so firm about it as I've not had chance to look at either the proposed constituencies or the current numbers in detail.Alistair said:
On 14% of the vote the Conservatives almost had two borders MPs. With 20s they would sweep the South.david_herdson said:
That will depend on the polls. Tory strength across the Borders (which is also one of the SNP's weakest areas, in relative terms), should be sufficient to return at least one Tory MP if the Scottish national outcome is something like the high-40s / low-to-mid-20s in current polls. Labour, on the other hand, having gone backwards since 2015 and looking at a horrible result in the local elections next year, further weakening their base and their relevance, will be in a lot more trouble if they can't recover or if the SNP don't decline from present levels.CarlottaVance said:
Talking of which, had a chance to cast your eye over the new Scottish constituencies?DavidL said:There are just far too many safe seats in Congress.
Extinction level events for the Tories & Labour?0 -
Mr. Divvie, yes.
If the vote to leave the EU is so monumental it justifies a second independence referendum a few years after the last (which was 'for a generation') then it's significant enough to alter the electorate, given part of it has a clear and massive conflict of interest.0 -
Excellent article.TCPoliticalBetting said:
I agree. Wonderfully indiscreet, I came on PB this AM to recommend it (from Guido link).TheScreamingEagles said:Must read by Daniel Korksi who was Dave's Deputy Director of Policy, on why Remain lost
http://www.politico.eu/article/why-we-lost-the-brexit-vote-former-uk-prime-minister-david-cameron/
Though he pretty much makes a case for Brexit with his remarks on the waning power of the Council versus the Commission, and the unquestioned supremacy of Germany.
As he details one inevitable mishap after another in both preparation for and during the campaign, one is left thinking: how did Cameron let it actually get to this? The article is very complimentary to Cameron, but in a way it's a massive indictment of him and the U.K. governing machine as a whole.0 -
Yes. All the same, the deal left the US with a position of overwhelming strength and if it gave the Soviets something for nothing in terms of the nuclear balance, it also reaffirmed that the USSR had to stay out of the Americas.TheScreamingEagles said:
I was thinking of the deal. Removing the missiles in Cuba and removing the American missiles in Turkeydavid_herdson said:
One of the problems with American politics of the day was the absurd aggressiveness of its foreign policy, borne of an unexpected and unprepared for global dominance post-1945. That the Kennedy administration's handling of the Cuban missile question - a naval blockade, the consideration until the last minute of strikes against Cuba, the refusal to accept equivalence between the US and USSR - could in any way be considered 'appeasement' is very telling. They were continually prepared to countenance global war in defence of that dominance and the fact that others were even more gung-ho doesn't change that.TheScreamingEagles said:
You could argue that the Cuban missile crisis showed JFK as an appeaser, but I call it realpolitik.CD13 said:The Alien vs Predator contest has come to life in America, and it looks likely that Alien will win.
A machine politician whose claim to fame being that she married Bill. My only problem with her is that she will become a puppet of the administration. Whether that's good or bad remains to be seen.
I looked into the circumstances of the Cuban Missile Crisis and JFK was anything but a puppet. Had he heeded the counselling of many of his advisors (Curtis le May, for example), we might not be here. He definitely wouldn't have been voted in nowadays.0 -
Better Together campaigners went round Polish Clubs and scared the shit out of people with tales of immediate deportation for EU nationals if Scotland went independent.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Alistair, yes, but the situation for the EU has changed rather substantially since then.
It would be allowing foreign citizens to vote on breaking up another country with a view to having the break-away bit then rejoin the same supra-national body to which those foreign citizens' countries belong whilst harming the larger part of the country that split.
Tiny bit of a conflict of interest, there.
Turn about fair play.0 -
Berwick is the biggest wibble. It was Scotland's main port in the early Middle Ages. However it has been in English hands continuously since the end of the fifteenth century. I am guessing the inhabitants won't vote to join an independent Scotland in a referendum but I see no reason to stop them if they do. For completeness there was a Norwegian colony in Orkney, Shetland and Sutherland, which they also lost in the fifteenth century (and for which I think they still could make a claim if they wanted to?)Morris_Dancer said:Mr. 43, not sure that's quite right.
I agree on the current land border being rock solid but during the 11th and 12th centuries (and a bit after that too) the border wibbled quite a bit, I think.
As for coherency, aren't England and Wales in precisely the same boat?
England's other land border is with Wales but I don't know the dynamics of that. Isn't there an issue about Monmouthshire?0 -
Ah "Whataboutery" the last refuge of the something or other.Alistair said:
Better Together campaigners went round Polish Clubs and scared the shit out of people with tales of immediate deportation for EU nationals if Scotland went independent.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Alistair, yes, but the situation for the EU has changed rather substantially since then.
It would be allowing foreign citizens to vote on breaking up another country with a view to having the break-away bit then rejoin the same supra-national body to which those foreign citizens' countries belong whilst harming the larger part of the country that split.
Tiny bit of a conflict of interest, there.
Turn about fair play.0 -
No. Unworthy remark.Alistair said:
Because Scotland isn't obsessed about bloodlines?Gardenwalker said:
Another gerrymander.Theuniondivvie said:It's definitely not gonna happen though.
Definitely, definitely not.
https://twitter.com/GrayInGlasgow/status/789028032644255744
https://twitter.com/GrayInGlasgow/status/789028634577305600
https://twitter.com/GrayInGlasgow/status/789030740323368960
What about Scots living outside Scotland,not least those living in the rest of the U.K.?
Why don't they get to vote on the future of the country they were born in?
Maybe you are big on blood and soil Nationalism.
I just think it bizarre that just because you no longer live in Scotland you are potentially shut out of a decision that fundamentally affects you.
Much more reason to include "expat" Scots than for example current plans to extend UK franchise to long term expats.0 -
Well, David Cameron has set the precedent for that..Gardenwalker said:
Another gerrymander.Theuniondivvie said:It's definitely not gonna happen though.
Definitely, definitely not.
https://twitter.com/GrayInGlasgow/status/789028032644255744
https://twitter.com/GrayInGlasgow/status/789028634577305600
https://twitter.com/GrayInGlasgow/status/789030740323368960
What about Scots living outside Scotland,not least those living in the rest of the U.K.?
Why don't they get to vote on the future of the country they were born in?
Actually first time round I thought that some acknowledgment should be made to ex pat/economic migrant (delete to taste) Scots: perhaps being on the Holyrood voters' roll at some point since 1998, or some reasonably convoluted application system that ensured they would have to make some effort to get a vote. However (much like smokers and the smoking in pubs ban) they turned out to be such self pitying whiners, I now think sod them.0 -
Channel 4 News blocked out most faces of alleged kids to "protect their identities" and of course stop viewers judging for themselves.Pong said:
hmm.OldKingCole said:
The Sun getting something right. The world is indeed a strange place!FrancisUrquhart said:Seems all those piling in on The Sun might need to eat some humble pie....BBC reported the twitter rumours as fact.
Mr 40 year old is as reported by the sun a "child" migrant not an interpreter....
http://order-order.com/2016/10/20/no-man-yesterdays-sun-not-interpreter/
Paul Staines (or one of his employees) says the home office says the person in question isn't an interpreter.
That doesn't mean the sun's story is right.
The whole thing is as clear as mud.
0 -
One of the weirdest things watching trump in the debates is when he is accused of something that isn't debatable you get the wrrrrrrrrrong, then he is told by the moderator but you did, wrrrrrrrrrong. From Iraq war support to mocking the disabled reporter, there is no attempt to try to deflect like Clinton you just get wrrrooong.
What does trump think? In the highlight packages, All the media have to do is then roll the clip of him doing so.
0 -
The state of the Tory Party was certainly more of a problem than Major's personal ratings but for all that, I think that by 1997, he was worn down and defensive in a way that he wasn't in 1992. Would have have been a good PM for another four years? I doubt it: he might have had some vision and impressive tactical ability but he was widely seen as weak and unable to impose himself on his party. But it's a close call though and we can throw it into the mix if you like.Lennon said:
I would argue that 1997 was one too - Blair was clearly Prime-Ministerial, and Major had been doing it for 7 years already. It wasn't Major that was the Tories issue so much as the whole party.david_herdson said:
Britain has been remarkably lucky in how often one of the two main candidates has been of PM-quality given how often the other one hasn't. Since 1979, I can only think of 2005 as an occasion when both were or would have been up to the job.TGOHF said:The lack of a quality candidate is an issue for the Uk too - look at the Uk - apart from Blair, Major, Cameron and maybe Clegg and Farage we have had a poor crop of prospective PMs.
2020 we could have 2 duffers going head to head potentially.0 -
He is an utterly inept debater – it's as if he has never had any training. He is dreadful.FrancisUrquhart said:One of the weirdest things watching trump in the debates is when he is accused of something that isn't debatable you get the wrrrrrrrrrong, then he is told by the moderator but you did, wrrrrrrrrrong. From Iraq war support to mocking the disabled reporter, there is no attempt to try to deflect like Clinton you just get wrrrooong.
What does trump think? In the highlight packages, All the media have to do is then roll the clip of him doing so.0 -
Well Cameron is an idiot and a poor precedent does not need to be followed.Theuniondivvie said:
Well, David Cameron has set the precedent for that..Gardenwalker said:
Another gerrymander.Theuniondivvie said:It's definitely not gonna happen though.
Definitely, definitely not.
https://twitter.com/GrayInGlasgow/status/789028032644255744
https://twitter.com/GrayInGlasgow/status/789028634577305600
https://twitter.com/GrayInGlasgow/status/789030740323368960
What about Scots living outside Scotland,not least those living in the rest of the U.K.?
Why don't they get to vote on the future of the country they were born in?
Actually first time round I thought that some acknowledgment should be made to ex pat/economic migrant (delete to taste) Scots: perhaps being on the Holyrood voters roll at some point since 1998, or some reasonably convoluted application system that ensured they would have to make some effort to get a vote. However (much like smokers and the smoking in pubs ban) they turned out to be such self pitying whiners, I now think sod them.
I have to out myself.
I myself am a native of another country: New Zealand. I grew up there, but have lived in the UK for 20 years (and have always held British citizenship).
If, for example, the North Island were to have a referendum on separating from the South Island I'd feel bloody well invested in the vote!
0 -
You are being far too kind. He isn't even debating, it is just a random stream of consciousness often with little to do with the question.Jobabob said:
He is an utterly inept debater – it's as if he has never had any training. He is dreadful.FrancisUrquhart said:One of the weirdest things watching trump in the debates is when he is accused of something that isn't debatable you get the wrrrrrrrrrong, then he is told by the moderator but you did, wrrrrrrrrrong. From Iraq war support to mocking the disabled reporter, there is no attempt to try to deflect like Clinton you just get wrrrooong.
What does trump think? In the highlight packages, All the media have to do is then roll the clip of him doing so.
Putting aside his views / how rich he may or may not be, I honestly have no idea how anybody can work for him or do business with him. It is bizarre.
0 -
Scotland's most widely read Unionist newspaper writes.
https://twitter.com/WingsScotland/status/7890284457328680960 -
"self pitying whiners"Theuniondivvie said:
Well, David Cameron has set the precedent for that..Gardenwalker said:
Another gerrymander.Theuniondivvie said:It's definitely not gonna happen though.
Definitely, definitely not.
https://twitter.com/GrayInGlasgow/status/789028032644255744
https://twitter.com/GrayInGlasgow/status/789028634577305600
https://twitter.com/GrayInGlasgow/status/789030740323368960
What about Scots living outside Scotland,not least those living in the rest of the U.K.?
Why don't they get to vote on the future of the country they were born in?
Actually first time round I thought that some acknowledgment should be made to ex pat/economic migrant (delete to taste) Scots: perhaps being on the Holyrood voters' roll at some point since 1998, or some reasonably convoluted application system that ensured they would have to make some effort to get a vote. However (much like smokers and the smoking in pubs ban) they turned out to be such self pitying whiners, I now think sod them.
You mean Scottish Nationalists?0 -
Although the Liberals can claim this old gentleman: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dadabhai_NaorojiTCPoliticalBetting said:Lib Dem HQ Diversity @LibDemDiversity
.@timfarron will be the keynote speaker at an event marking #BlackHistoryMonth at Queen Mary Uni, London. RSVP via http://bit.ly/2ek3F8h
-----------
In the history of the Lib Dems they once had one Asian MP.0 -
I think he is surrounded by sycophants. Just look at his fans of twitter and elsewhere, the Donald can do no wrong and any criticism is MSM bullshit.FrancisUrquhart said:One of the weirdest things watching trump in the debates is when he is accused of something that isn't debatable you get the wrrrrrrrrrong, then he is told by the moderator but you did, wrrrrrrrrrong. From Iraq war support to mocking the disabled reporter, there is no attempt to try to deflect like Clinton you just get wrrrooong.
What does trump think? In the highlight packages, All the media have to do is then roll the clip of him doing so.
I mean some of the halfwit Trumpers are saying Hillary had a teleprompter during last night's debate0 -
Chortle.malcolmg said:
You have to wonder if some of the frothers on here can actually tie their shoelaces.Theuniondivvie said:
London should hold their own referendum on staying in the UK after England voted to leave the EU.TGOHF said:
The Borders should hold their own referendum on staying in the Uk if Scotland votes for Sindy in the future .david_herdson said:
That was my impression based on some of the past Holyrood elections but I didn't want to be so firm about it as I've not had chance to look at either the proposed constituencies or the current numbers in detail.Alistair said:
On 14% of the vote the Conservatives almost had two borders MPs. With 20s they would sweep the South.david_herdson said:
SNIPCarlottaVance said:
Talking of which, had a chance to cast your eye over the new Scottish constituencies?DavidL said:There are just far too many safe seats in Congress.
Extinction level events for the Tories & Labour?
'These are my principles. If you don't like them I have others.' 0 -
Ah, invective at the 'your mum smells' level. Always shatteringly effective.JosiasJessop said:
"self pitying whiners"Theuniondivvie said:
Well, David Cameron has set the precedent for that..Gardenwalker said:
Another gerrymander.Theuniondivvie said:It's definitely not gonna happen though.
Definitely, definitely not.
https://twitter.com/GrayInGlasgow/status/789028032644255744
https://twitter.com/GrayInGlasgow/status/789028634577305600
https://twitter.com/GrayInGlasgow/status/789030740323368960
What about Scots living outside Scotland,not least those living in the rest of the U.K.?
Why don't they get to vote on the future of the country they were born in?
Actually first time round I thought that some acknowledgment should be made to ex pat/economic migrant (delete to taste) Scots: perhaps being on the Holyrood voters' roll at some point since 1998, or some reasonably convoluted application system that ensured they would have to make some effort to get a vote. However (much like smokers and the smoking in pubs ban) they turned out to be such self pitying whiners, I now think sod them.
You mean Scottish Nationalists?0 -
I'm WTF at the MSM virus signalling waycist! It's like handwaving Watergate X1,000,000!TheScreamingEagles said:
I think he is surrounded by sycophants. Just look at his fans of twitter and elsewhere, the Donald can do no wrong and any criticism is MSM bullshit.FrancisUrquhart said:One of the weirdest things watching trump in the debates is when he is accused of something that isn't debatable you get the wrrrrrrrrrong, then he is told by the moderator but you did, wrrrrrrrrrong. From Iraq war support to mocking the disabled reporter, there is no attempt to try to deflect like Clinton you just get wrrrooong.
What does trump think? In the highlight packages, All the media have to do is then roll the clip of him doing so.
I mean some of the halfwit Trumpers are saying Hillary had a teleprompter during last night's debate0 -
RCS – have PMed you. Cheers.rcs1000 said:
Although the Liberals can claim this old gentleman: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dadabhai_NaorojiTCPoliticalBetting said:Lib Dem HQ Diversity @LibDemDiversity
.@timfarron will be the keynote speaker at an event marking #BlackHistoryMonth at Queen Mary Uni, London. RSVP via http://bit.ly/2ek3F8h
-----------
In the history of the Lib Dems they once had one Asian MP.0 -
Having watched all three debates on full, I think I need to seek some professional help for PTSD! Truly bizarre & scary events.TheScreamingEagles said:
I think he is surrounded by sycophants. Just look at his fans of twitter and elsewhere, the Donald can do no wrong and any criticism is MSM bullshit.FrancisUrquhart said:One of the weirdest things watching trump in the debates is when he is accused of something that isn't debatable you get the wrrrrrrrrrong, then he is told by the moderator but you did, wrrrrrrrrrong. From Iraq war support to mocking the disabled reporter, there is no attempt to try to deflect like Clinton you just get wrrrooong.
What does trump think? In the highlight packages, All the media have to do is then roll the clip of him doing so.
I mean some of the halfwit Trumpers are saying Hillary had a teleprompter during last night's debate0 -
They can't believe there hero is going down to one of the worst defeats in modern times.TheScreamingEagles said:
I think he is surrounded by sycophants. Just look at his fans of twitter and elsewhere, the Donald can do no wrong and any criticism is MSM bullshit.FrancisUrquhart said:One of the weirdest things watching trump in the debates is when he is accused of something that isn't debatable you get the wrrrrrrrrrong, then he is told by the moderator but you did, wrrrrrrrrrong. From Iraq war support to mocking the disabled reporter, there is no attempt to try to deflect like Clinton you just get wrrrooong.
What does trump think? In the highlight packages, All the media have to do is then roll the clip of him doing so.
I mean some of the halfwit Trumpers are saying Hillary had a teleprompter during last night's debate0 -
Your words, mate. Your words.Theuniondivvie said:
Ah, invective at the 'your mum smells' level. Always shatteringly effective.JosiasJessop said:
"self pitying whiners"Theuniondivvie said:
Well, David Cameron has set the precedent for that..Gardenwalker said:
Another gerrymander.Theuniondivvie said:It's definitely not gonna happen though.
Definitely, definitely not.
https://twitter.com/GrayInGlasgow/status/789028032644255744
https://twitter.com/GrayInGlasgow/status/789028634577305600
https://twitter.com/GrayInGlasgow/status/789030740323368960
What about Scots living outside Scotland,not least those living in the rest of the U.K.?
Why don't they get to vote on the future of the country they were born in?
Actually first time round I thought that some acknowledgment should be made to ex pat/economic migrant (delete to taste) Scots: perhaps being on the Holyrood voters' roll at some point since 1998, or some reasonably convoluted application system that ensured they would have to make some effort to get a vote. However (much like smokers and the smoking in pubs ban) they turned out to be such self pitying whiners, I now think sod them.
You mean Scottish Nationalists?0 -
He is probably being personally challenged for the first time in about twenty to thirty years.TheScreamingEagles said:
I think he is surrounded by sycophants. Just look at his fans of twitter and elsewhere, the Donald can do no wrong and any criticism is MSM bullshit.FrancisUrquhart said:One of the weirdest things watching trump in the debates is when he is accused of something that isn't debatable you get the wrrrrrrrrrong, then he is told by the moderator but you did, wrrrrrrrrrong. From Iraq war support to mocking the disabled reporter, there is no attempt to try to deflect like Clinton you just get wrrrooong.
What does trump think? In the highlight packages, All the media have to do is then roll the clip of him doing so.
I mean some of the halfwit Trumpers are saying Hillary had a teleprompter during last night's debate0 -
The Nats on here are stand up gents. They have the best arguments*, and are generally to be welcomed amid a sea of deranged Hard Brexiteers and Paleo Conservative weirdos.JosiasJessop said:
"self pitying whiners"Theuniondivvie said:
Well, David Cameron has set the precedent for that..Gardenwalker said:
Another gerrymander.Theuniondivvie said:It's definitely not gonna happen though.
Definitely, definitely not.
https://twitter.com/GrayInGlasgow/status/789028032644255744
https://twitter.com/GrayInGlasgow/status/789028634577305600
https://twitter.com/GrayInGlasgow/status/789030740323368960
What about Scots living outside Scotland,not least those living in the rest of the U.K.?
Why don't they get to vote on the future of the country they were born in?
Actually first time round I thought that some acknowledgment should be made to ex pat/economic migrant (delete to taste) Scots: perhaps being on the Holyrood voters' roll at some point since 1998, or some reasonably convoluted application system that ensured they would have to make some effort to get a vote. However (much like smokers and the smoking in pubs ban) they turned out to be such self pitying whiners, I now think sod them.
You mean Scottish Nationalists?
*Yes, I know. But Malcolm is an outrider, and funny with it.0 -
I lost track - did we ever get his tax returns?FrancisUrquhart said:
You are being far too kind. He isn't even debating, it is just a random stream of consciousness often with little to do with the question.Jobabob said:
He is an utterly inept debater – it's as if he has never had any training. He is dreadful.FrancisUrquhart said:One of the weirdest things watching trump in the debates is when he is accused of something that isn't debatable you get the wrrrrrrrrrong, then he is told by the moderator but you did, wrrrrrrrrrong. From Iraq war support to mocking the disabled reporter, there is no attempt to try to deflect like Clinton you just get wrrrooong.
What does trump think? In the highlight packages, All the media have to do is then roll the clip of him doing so.
Putting aside his views / how rich he may or may not be, I honestly have no idea how anybody can work for him or do business with him. It is bizarre.0 -
Oh well - that lasted long..
http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/14813789.Second_independence_referendum_draft_reveals_Nicola_Sturgeon_will_Westminster_permission_for_new_vote/
"NICOLA Sturgeon will need Westminster co-operation to hold a second independence referendum, ministers have confirmed.
A draft referendum bill, published this morning, show that a Section 30 order temporarily transferring legal powers to Holyrood would be sought if the legislation is introduced at the Scottish Parliament.
In a pre-amble to a consultation accompanying the draft bill, the Scottish Government states that it would be "expected" that a Section 30 order would be granted, as it was ahead of the 2014 vote."
I think "expected" is a tad optimistic.0 -
There is a lot of detail in the article, and sometimes more heat than light. But it does shine a light on the efforts made during the 'renegotiation', most of which passed commentators by.Gardenwalker said:
Excellent article.TCPoliticalBetting said:
I agree. Wonderfully indiscreet, I came on PB this AM to recommend it (from Guido link).TheScreamingEagles said:Must read by Daniel Korksi who was Dave's Deputy Director of Policy, on why Remain lost
http://www.politico.eu/article/why-we-lost-the-brexit-vote-former-uk-prime-minister-david-cameron/
Though he pretty much makes a case for Brexit with his remarks on the waning power of the Council versus the Commission, and the unquestioned supremacy of Germany.
As he details one inevitable mishap after another in both preparation for and during the campaign, one is left thinking: how did Cameron let it actually get to this? The article is very complimentary to Cameron, but in a way it's a massive indictment of him and the U.K. governing machine as a whole.
It also paints a picture of Cameron approaching European issues initially from a very sceptical viewpoint but coming to a firm view that membership was strongly in the country's best interests.0 -
I'm not your mate.JosiasJessop said:
Your words, mate. Your words.Theuniondivvie said:
Ah, invective at the 'your mum smells' level. Always shatteringly effective.JosiasJessop said:
"self pitying whiners"Theuniondivvie said:
Well, David Cameron has set the precedent for that..Gardenwalker said:
Another gerrymander.Theuniondivvie said:It's definitely not gonna happen though.
Definitely, definitely not.
https://twitter.com/GrayInGlasgow/status/789028032644255744
https://twitter.com/GrayInGlasgow/status/789028634577305600
https://twitter.com/GrayInGlasgow/status/789030740323368960
What about Scots living outside Scotland,not least those living in the rest of the U.K.?
Why don't they get to vote on the future of the country they were born in?
Actually first time round I thought that some acknowledgment should be made to ex pat/economic migrant (delete to taste) Scots: perhaps being on the Holyrood voters' roll at some point since 1998, or some reasonably convoluted application system that ensured they would have to make some effort to get a vote. However (much like smokers and the smoking in pubs ban) they turned out to be such self pitying whiners, I now think sod them.
You mean Scottish Nationalists?0 -
-
As I mentioned least week, it will be interesting to see if the EU makes Scotland an offer it cannot refuse.
That would be very mischievous.0 -
The FT reports that Hammond at the Treasury Select Committee y'day is keen to exclude students from the migration numbers.
Tyrie cited a survey in which only 1/5 of people considered students migrants.
Would very much help get some sanity back; assist in May's delivery of targets (which I think ought to have been abandoned completely); and protect one of major export industries.
What's not to like?0 -
It really won't fly. Scotland has a coherence that Wales and Ireland lacked. It was why England could invade Scotland at will but could never hold the country. Apart from Cromwell who had to use the most powerful army in Britain before the First World War to lock Scotland down.MonikerDiCanio said:
No harm in asking. Other areas might also be eager to escape the central belt stranglehold.FF43 said:
Whatever happens, the territorial integrity of Scotland is rock-solid. The Tweed-Solway line has defined the border for a thousand years. There is hardly a country in Europe that is as geographically and demographically coherent as Scotland.TGOHF said:
The Borders should hold their own referendum on staying in the Uk if Scotland votes for Sindy in the future .david_herdson said:
That was my impression based on some of the past Holyrood elections but I didn't want to be so firm about it as I've not had chance to look at either the proposed constituencies or the current numbers in detail.Alistair said:
On 14% of the vote the Conservatives almost had two borders MPs. With 20s they would sweep the South.david_herdson said:
That will depend on the polls. Tory strength across the Borders (which is also one of the SNP's weakest areas, in relative terms), should be sufficient to return at least one Tory MP if the Scottish national outcome is something like the high-40s / low-to-mid-20s in current polls. Labour, on the other hand, having gone backwards since 2015 and looking at a horrible result in the local elections next year, further weakening their base and their relevance, will be in a lot more trouble if they can't recover or if the SNP don't decline from present levels.CarlottaVance said:
Talking of which, had a chance to cast your eye over the new Scottish constituencies?DavidL said:There are just far too many safe seats in Congress.
Extinction level events for the Tories & Labour?0 -
That's a shame; I've many Scottish friends. Some even want independence.Theuniondivvie said:
I'm not your mate.JosiasJessop said:
Your words, mate. Your words.Theuniondivvie said:
Ah, invective at the 'your mum smells' level. Always shatteringly effective.JosiasJessop said:
"self pitying whiners"Theuniondivvie said:
Well, David Cameron has set the precedent for that..Gardenwalker said:
Another gerrymander.Theuniondivvie said:It's definitely not gonna happen though.
Definitely, definitely not.
https://twitter.com/GrayInGlasgow/status/789028032644255744
https://twitter.com/GrayInGlasgow/status/789028634577305600
https://twitter.com/GrayInGlasgow/status/789030740323368960
What about Scots living outside Scotland,not least those living in the rest of the U.K.?
Why don't they get to vote on the future of the country they were born in?
Actually first time round I thought that some acknowledgment should be made to ex pat/economic migrant (delete to taste) Scots: perhaps being on the Holyrood voters' roll at some point since 1998, or some reasonably convoluted application system that ensured they would have to make some effort to get a vote. However (much like smokers and the smoking in pubs ban) they turned out to be such self pitying whiners, I now think sod them.
You mean Scottish Nationalists?
But they were your words, and your invective.0 -
Yes. Describes Cameron as naturally Eurosceptic, which was always my take.IanB2 said:
There is a lot of detail in the article, and sometimes more heat than light. But it does shine a light on the efforts made during the 'renegotiation', most of which passed commentators by.Gardenwalker said:
Excellent article.TCPoliticalBetting said:
I agree. Wonderfully indiscreet, I came on PB this AM to recommend it (from Guido link).TheScreamingEagles said:Must read by Daniel Korksi who was Dave's Deputy Director of Policy, on why Remain lost
http://www.politico.eu/article/why-we-lost-the-brexit-vote-former-uk-prime-minister-david-cameron/
Though he pretty much makes a case for Brexit with his remarks on the waning power of the Council versus the Commission, and the unquestioned supremacy of Germany.
As he details one inevitable mishap after another in both preparation for and during the campaign, one is left thinking: how did Cameron let it actually get to this? The article is very complimentary to Cameron, but in a way it's a massive indictment of him and the U.K. governing machine as a whole.
It also paints a picture of Cameron approaching European issues initially from a very sceptical viewpoint but coming to a firm view that membership was strongly in the country's best interests.
It's why I get so peeved when people call him a raving Europhile etc.0 -
PB Yoons in all their convoluted glory:TGOHF said:Oh well - that lasted long..
http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/14813789.Second_independence_referendum_draft_reveals_Nicola_Sturgeon_will_Westminster_permission_for_new_vote/
"NICOLA Sturgeon will need Westminster co-operation to hold a second independence referendum, ministers have confirmed.
A draft referendum bill, published this morning, show that a Section 30 order temporarily transferring legal powers to Holyrood would be sought if the legislation is introduced at the Scottish Parliament.
In a pre-amble to a consultation accompanying the draft bill, the Scottish Government states that it would be "expected" that a Section 30 order would be granted, as it was ahead of the 2014 vote."
I think "expected" is a tad optimistic.
'The Nats would never win a 2nd referendum, that's why Nicola's stopped mentioning it.'
Sturgeon has just said she's starting a consultation on a new referendum bill and that she thinks it's highly likely that there will be a 2nd referendum.
(Yoon starts gabbling slightly)
'That's only posturing, she definitely won't have a 2nd referendum, besides she'd lose it and that would be the issue settled once and for all, and they'd need the permission of Westminster anyway.'
Why doesn't Tessy offer them a referendum then?
Long silence.
'We know that referendums are nasty, divisive things that causes elected politicians and immigrants to be murdered and assaulted.'
Speak for yourself.0 -
O/T has a date for the next PB drinks do been decided yet?0
-
Mr Herdson,
"Suppose it were the 1960 version of him vs Trump this year - how do you think the election would go?"
Kennedy had a lot going for him. The charisma, the Irish vote and Mayor Daley. He'd have won though the "dalliances" might have stopped him getting the nomination.
Mr Eagles, I'd agree that he was an appeaser, but he faced a lot of pressure from the Military to nuke Castro. Having your brother as Attorney General probably helped although Bobby started off as a hawk.
You can criticise JFK for the Bay of Pigs disaster - not much appeasement there.0 -
My understanding was that students were counted on their way out, so in theory if they were all returning home after studies then they should net out of the overall migration figures. Obviously there is a lag if student numbers overall increase rapidly.Gardenwalker said:The FT reports that Hammond at the Treasury Select Committee y'day is keen to exclude students from the migration numbers.
Tyrie cited a survey in which only 1/5 of people considered students migrants.
Would very much help get some sanity back; assist in May's delivery of targets (which I think ought to have been abandoned completely); and protect one of major export industries.
What's not to like?
Its only if they stay on as workers that they appear in the net migration numbers.0 -
No, an we didn't et his medical record either.rottenborough said:
I lost track - did we ever get his tax returns?FrancisUrquhart said:
You are being far too kind. He isn't even debating, it is just a random stream of consciousness often with little to do with the question.Jobabob said:
He is an utterly inept debater – it's as if he has never had any training. He is dreadful.FrancisUrquhart said:One of the weirdest things watching trump in the debates is when he is accused of something that isn't debatable you get the wrrrrrrrrrong, then he is told by the moderator but you did, wrrrrrrrrrong. From Iraq war support to mocking the disabled reporter, there is no attempt to try to deflect like Clinton you just get wrrrooong.
What does trump think? In the highlight packages, All the media have to do is then roll the clip of him doing so.
Putting aside his views / how rich he may or may not be, I honestly have no idea how anybody can work for him or do business with him. It is bizarre.
I thought the Clinton Collapse would be a game changer because Trump could release his medical records and use the line "I will always tell you the truth" and hammer Hillary on trust where she is weak.
Instead he played silly buggers with his medical records (must be something bad in there right?) and lost the moment.0 -
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/player/b07wby0q showed that he is probably a better fit for the labour party rather than the Lib Dems. He really was only in the liberal party as the Labour party didn't exist.rcs1000 said:
Although the Liberals can claim this old gentleman: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dadabhai_NaorojiTCPoliticalBetting said:Lib Dem HQ Diversity @LibDemDiversity
.@timfarron will be the keynote speaker at an event marking #BlackHistoryMonth at Queen Mary Uni, London. RSVP via http://bit.ly/2ek3F8h
-----------
In the history of the Lib Dems they once had one Asian MP.0 -
Even if the EU/EC wanted to it absolutely will not say anything without explicitly being invited to do so by the UK government. Absolute non starter.JosiasJessop said:As I mentioned least week, it will be interesting to see if the EU makes Scotland an offer it cannot refuse.
That would be very mischievous.0 -
Flicked through the front webpages of a number of major US newspapers. Every one leading on Trump refusing to accept the result.
Another brilliant night's work by the Donald.
Really, as I've said before, I have suspicion he doesn't actually want to win.0 -
God is there anything more tedious than a debate on Scottish territorial integrity?FF43 said:
It really won't fly. Scotland has a coherence that Wales and Ireland lacked. It was why England could invade Scotland at will but could never hold the country. Apart from Cromwell who had to use the most powerful army in Britain before the First World War to lock Scotland down.MonikerDiCanio said:
No harm in asking. Other areas might also be eager to escape the central belt stranglehold.FF43 said:
Whatever happens, the territorial integrity of Scotland is rock-solid. The Tweed-Solway line has defined the border for a thousand years. There is hardly a country in Europe that is as geographically and demographically coherent as Scotland.TGOHF said:
The Borders should hold their own referendum on staying in the Uk if Scotland votes for Sindy in the future .david_herdson said:
That was my impression based on some of the past Holyrood elections but I didn't want to be so firm about it as I've not had chance to look at either the proposed constituencies or the current numbers in detail.Alistair said:
On 14% of the vote the Conservatives almost had two borders MPs. With 20s they would sweep the South.david_herdson said:
That will depend on the polls. Tory strength across the Borders (which is also one of the SNP's weakest areas, in relative terms), should be sufficient to return at least one Tory MP if the Scottish national outcome is something like the high-40s / low-to-mid-20s in current polls. Labour, on the other hand, having gone backwards since 2015 and looking at a horrible result in the local elections next year, further weakening their base and their relevance, will be in a lot more trouble if they can't recover or if the SNP don't decline from present levels.CarlottaVance said:
Talking of which, had a chance to cast your eye over the new Scottish constituencies?DavidL said:There are just far too many safe seats in Congress.
Extinction level events for the Tories & Labour?
I'm strongly pro-Union, but Scotland is a nation unto itself and a joint partner in the UK.
If, god forbid, it votes again, and votes to leave, it goes as a nation.
Some of the ranting on previous threads about jumped up county councils etc is exactly the sort of thing that encourages independence. @Paul_Bedfordshire is the worst. The epitome of Little Englandism.0 -
-
I blame The Bay of Pigs disaster on the CIA.CD13 said:Mr Herdson,
"Suppose it were the 1960 version of him vs Trump this year - how do you think the election would go?"
Kennedy had a lot going for him. The charisma, the Irish vote and Mayor Daley. He'd have won though the "dalliances" might have stopped him getting the nomination.
Mr Eagles, I'd agree that he was an appeaser, but he faced a lot of pressure from the Military to nuke Castro. Having your brother as Attorney General probably helped although Bobby started off as a hawk.
You can criticise JFK for the Bay of Pigs disaster - not much appeasement there.0 -
I am sure I'm not the only one that noticed how low energy Trump was last night and totally unrelated how few sniffles he had.Alistair said:
No, an we didn't et his medical record either.rottenborough said:
I lost track - did we ever get his tax returns?FrancisUrquhart said:
You are being far too kind. He isn't even debating, it is just a random stream of consciousness often with little to do with the question.Jobabob said:
He is an utterly inept debater – it's as if he has never had any training. He is dreadful.FrancisUrquhart said:One of the weirdest things watching trump in the debates is when he is accused of something that isn't debatable you get the wrrrrrrrrrong, then he is told by the moderator but you did, wrrrrrrrrrong. From Iraq war support to mocking the disabled reporter, there is no attempt to try to deflect like Clinton you just get wrrrooong.
What does trump think? In the highlight packages, All the media have to do is then roll the clip of him doing so.
Putting aside his views / how rich he may or may not be, I honestly have no idea how anybody can work for him or do business with him. It is bizarre.
I thought the Clinton Collapse would be a game changer because Trump could release his medical records and use the line "I will always tell you the truth" and hammer Hillary on trust where she is weak.
Instead he played silly buggers with his medical records (must be something bad in there right?) and lost the moment.0 -
Mrs May could easily turn it down onTheuniondivvie said:
PB Yoons in all their convoluted glory:TGOHF said:Oh well - that lasted long..
http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/14813789.Second_independence_referendum_draft_reveals_Nicola_Sturgeon_will_Westminster_permission_for_new_vote/
"NICOLA Sturgeon will need Westminster co-operation to hold a second independence referendum, ministers have confirmed.
A draft referendum bill, published this morning, show that a Section 30 order temporarily transferring legal powers to Holyrood would be sought if the legislation is introduced at the Scottish Parliament.
In a pre-amble to a consultation accompanying the draft bill, the Scottish Government states that it would be "expected" that a Section 30 order would be granted, as it was ahead of the 2014 vote."
I think "expected" is a tad optimistic.
'The Nats would never win a 2nd referendum, that's why Nicola's stopped mentioning it.'
Sturgeon has just said she's starting a consultation on a new referendum bill and that she thinks it's highly likely that there will be a 2nd referendum.
(Yoon starts gabbling slightly)
'That's only posturing, she definitely won't have a 2nd referendum, besides she'd lose it and that would be the issue settled once and for all, and they'd need the permission of Westminster anyway.'
Why doesn't Tessy offer them a referendum then?
Long silence.
'We know that referendums are nasty, divisive things that causes elected politicians and immigrants to be murdered and assaulted.'
Speak for yourself.
a) There was a referendum 2 years ago
b) There is no change in the polling
c) The expense of another referendum
d) A period of uncertainty from another referendum is not in the national interest at this time
So even if she (like everyone else) can see that the Nats would lose again , she can turn it down with plenty of justification.
0 -
It's a bit Yes Minister. They asked us to cut the numbers, so we cut the numbers.Gardenwalker said:The FT reports that Hammond at the Treasury Select Committee y'day is keen to exclude students from the migration numbers.
Tyrie cited a survey in which only 1/5 of people considered students migrants.
Would very much help get some sanity back; assist in May's delivery of targets (which I think ought to have been abandoned completely); and protect one of major export industries.
What's not to like?0 -
Yes, but in the 1903 Skegness byelection Labour ...., which means they aren't really in trouble.Black_Rook said:0 -
I'm not so sure. Scotland didn't have much coherence between lowland and highland until the 1500s or 1600s. In fact, you might even be able to go as far as to say General Wade introduced that coherence by use of military might and infrastructure.FF43 said:
It really won't fly. Scotland has a coherence that Wales and Ireland lacked. It was why England could invade Scotland at will but could never hold the country. Apart from Cromwell who had to use the most powerful army in Britain before the First World War to lock Scotland down.MonikerDiCanio said:
No harm in asking. Other areas might also be eager to escape the central belt stranglehold.FF43 said:
Whatever happens, the territorial integrity of Scotland is rock-solid. The Tweed-Solway line has defined the border for a thousand years. There is hardly a country in Europe that is as geographically and demographically coherent as Scotland.TGOHF said:
The Borders should hold their own referendum on staying in the Uk if Scotland votes for Sindy in the future .david_herdson said:
That was my impression based on some of the past Holyrood elections but I didn't want to be so firm about it as I've not had chance to look at either the proposed constituencies or the current numbers in detail.Alistair said:
On 14% of the vote the Conservatives almost had two borders MPs. With 20s they would sweep the South.david_herdson said:
That will depend on the polls. Tory strength across the Borders (which is also one of the SNP's weakest areas, in relative terms), should be sufficient to return at least one Tory MP if the Scottish national outcome is something like the high-40s / low-to-mid-20s in current polls. Labour, on the other hand, having gone backwards since 2015 and looking at a horrible result in the local elections next year, further weakening their base and their relevance, will be in a lot more trouble if they can't recover or if the SNP don't decline from present levels.CarlottaVance said:
Talking of which, had a chance to cast your eye over the new Scottish constituencies?DavidL said:There are just far too many safe seats in Congress.
Extinction level events for the Tories & Labour?
In that respect, when you talk about 'Scotland' you are mainly referring to the Forth-Clyde and south; the important part from a strategic point of view.0 -
Given that the two countries that voted remain were Scotland and Northern Ireland and most Northern Irish protestant's originated from Scotland allowing Scotland to stay in Europe with the proviso that they took Northern Ireland with them would be fun.Alistair said:
Even if the EU/EC wanted to it absolutely will not say anything without explicitly being invited to do so by the UK government. Absolute non starter.JosiasJessop said:As I mentioned least week, it will be interesting to see if the EU makes Scotland an offer it cannot refuse.
That would be very mischievous.
All that would be required is a single referendum across Scotland and Northern Ireland. Winner takes all. I do however suspect that the popcorn costs would bankrupt me.0 -
We could do a brief history of the Debateable Lands. A time when the border between Scotland and England was a notional concept more than a thingGardenwalker said:
God is there anything more tedious than a debate on Scottish territorial integrity?FF43 said:
It really won't fly. Scotland has a coherence that Wales and Ireland lacked. It was why England could invade Scotland at will but could never hold the country. Apart from Cromwell who had to use the most powerful army in Britain before the First World War to lock Scotland down.MonikerDiCanio said:
No harm in asking. Other areas might also be eager to escape the central belt stranglehold.FF43 said:
Whatever happens, the territorial integrity of Scotland is rock-solid. The Tweed-Solway line has defined the border for a thousand years. There is hardly a country in Europe that is as geographically and demographically coherent as Scotland.TGOHF said:
The Borders should hold their own referendum on staying in the Uk if Scotland votes for Sindy in the future .david_herdson said:
That was my impression based on some of the past Holyrood elections but I didn't want to be so firm about it as I've not had chance to look at either the proposed constituencies or the current numbers in detail.Alistair said:
On 14% of the vote the Conservatives almost had two borders MPs. With 20s they would sweep the South.david_herdson said:
That will depend on the polls. Tory strength across the Borders (which is also one of the SNP's weakest areas, in relative terms), should be sufficient to return at least one Tory MP if the Scottish national outcome is something like the high-40s / low-to-mid-20s in current polls. Labour, on the other hand, having gone backwards since 2015 and looking at a horrible result in the local elections next year, further weakening their base and their relevance, will be in a lot more trouble if they can't recover or if the SNP don't decline from present levels.CarlottaVance said:
Talking of which, had a chance to cast your eye over the new Scottish constituencies?DavidL said:There are just far too many safe seats in Congress.
Extinction level events for the Tories & Labour?
.0 -
Agreed. It is pathetic.Gardenwalker said:
God is there anything more tedious than a debate on Scottish territorial integrity?FF43 said:
It really won't fly. Scotland has a coherence that Wales and Ireland lacked. It was why England could invade Scotland at will but could never hold the country. Apart from Cromwell who had to use the most powerful army in Britain before the First World War to lock Scotland down.MonikerDiCanio said:
No harm in asking. Other areas might also be eager to escape the central belt stranglehold.FF43 said:
Whatever happens, the territorial integrity of Scotland is rock-solid. The Tweed-Solway line has defined the border for a thousand years. There is hardly a country in Europe that is as geographically and demographically coherent as Scotland.TGOHF said:
The Borders should hold their own referendum on staying in the Uk if Scotland votes for Sindy in the future .david_herdson said:
That was my impression based on some of the past Holyrood elections but I didn't want to be so firm about it as I've not had chance to look at either the proposed constituencies or the current numbers in detail.Alistair said:
On 14% of the vote the Conservatives almost had two borders MPs. With 20s they would sweep the South.david_herdson said:
That will depend on the polls. Tory strength across the Borders (which is also one of the SNP's weakest areas, in relative terms), should be sufficient to return at least one Tory MP if the Scottish national outcome is something like the high-40s / low-to-mid-20s in current polls. Labour, on the other hand, having gone backwards since 2015 and looking at a horrible result in the local elections next year, further weakening their base and their relevance, will be in a lot more trouble if they can't recover or if the SNP don't decline from present levels.CarlottaVance said:
Talking of which, had a chance to cast your eye over the new Scottish constituencies?DavidL said:There are just far too many safe seats in Congress.
Extinction level events for the Tories & Labour?
I'm strongly pro-Union, but Scotland is a nation unto itself and a joint partner in the UK.
If, god forbid, it votes again, and votes to leave, it goes as a nation.
Some of the ranting on previous threads about jumped up county councils etc is exactly the sort of thing that encourages independence. @Paul_Bedfordshire is the worst. The epitome of Little Englandism.0 -
Which is why Cameron vetoed it before. Didn't think it fair play. But when the original target was so stupid...its principle before pragmatism which doesn't seem very British.Jonathan said:
It's a bit Yes Minister. They asked us to cut the numbers, so we cut the numbers.Gardenwalker said:The FT reports that Hammond at the Treasury Select Committee y'day is keen to exclude students from the migration numbers.
Tyrie cited a survey in which only 1/5 of people considered students migrants.
Would very much help get some sanity back; assist in May's delivery of targets (which I think ought to have been abandoned completely); and protect one of major export industries.
What's not to like?0 -
Obviously they don't expect anything of the kind. They could well lose a Westminster sanctioned referendum. The interesting thing is whether they go ahead with an unsanctioned Catalonia-style referendum. It could work for them either way. Theresa May blocks Scotland from exercising its democratic right. They will almost certainly win an unofficial referendum by a big margin on a low turnout. Those opposed to independence won't vote in it. They can then say 80%, or whatever, of Scots voted for independence.TGOHF said:Oh well - that lasted long..
http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/14813789.Second_independence_referendum_draft_reveals_Nicola_Sturgeon_will_Westminster_permission_for_new_vote/
"NICOLA Sturgeon will need Westminster co-operation to hold a second independence referendum, ministers have confirmed.
A draft referendum bill, published this morning, show that a Section 30 order temporarily transferring legal powers to Holyrood would be sought if the legislation is introduced at the Scottish Parliament.
In a pre-amble to a consultation accompanying the draft bill, the Scottish Government states that it would be "expected" that a Section 30 order would be granted, as it was ahead of the 2014 vote."
I think "expected" is a tad optimistic.0 -
Sorry I was not alive that far ago. But it illustrates why having non-white MPs is all just history now for the Liberals/Lib Dems.rcs1000 said:
Although the Liberals can claim this old gentleman: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dadabhai_NaorojiTCPoliticalBetting said:Lib Dem HQ Diversity @LibDemDiversity
.@timfarron will be the keynote speaker at an event marking #BlackHistoryMonth at Queen Mary Uni, London. RSVP via http://bit.ly/2ek3F8h
-----------
In the history of the Lib Dems they once had one Asian MP.
0 -
What does trump think? In the highlight packages, All the media have to do is then roll the clip of him doing so.
He is an utterly inept debater – it's as if he has never had any training. He is dreadful.
You are being far too kind. He isn't even debating, it is just a random stream of consciousness often with little to do with the question.
Putting aside his views / how rich he may or may not be, I honestly have no idea how anybody can work for him or do business with him. It is bizarre.
I lost track - did we ever get his tax returns?
No, an we didn't et his medical record either.
I thought the Clinton Collapse would be a game changer because Trump could release his medical records and use the line "I will always tell you the truth" and hammer Hillary on trust where she is weak.
Instead he played silly buggers with his medical records (must be something bad in there right?) and lost the moment.
He is probably one of the worse candidates for any US election. Even Goldwater was better! The fact 40% of the country still supports him makes me feel that 40% of Americans are utter morons.Alistair said:
No, an we didn't et his medical record either.rottenborough said:
I lost track - did we ever get his tax returns?FrancisUrquhart said:
You are being far too kind. He isn't even debating, it is just a random stream of consciousness often with little to do with the question.Jobabob said:
He is an utterly inept debater – it's as if he has never had any training. He is dreadful.FrancisUrquhart said:One of the weirdest things watching trump in the debates is when he is accused of something that isn't debatable you get the wrrrrrrrrrong, then he is told by the moderator but you did, wrrrrrrrrrong. From Iraq war support to mocking the disabled reporter, there is no attempt to try to deflect like Clinton you just get wrrrooong.
What does trump think? In the highlight packages, All the media have to do is then roll the clip of him doing so.
Putting aside his views / how rich he may or may not be, I honestly have no idea how anybody can work for him or do business with him. It is bizarre.
I thought the Clinton Collapse would be a game changer because Trump could release his medical records and use the line "I will always tell you the truth" and hammer Hillary on trust where she is weak.
Instead he played silly buggers with his medical records (must be something bad in there right?) and lost the moment.0 -
Well Donald Jr has already stated that POTUS is a "step down" for daddy....rottenborough said:Flicked through the front webpages of a number of major US newspapers. Every one leading on Trump refusing to accept the result.
Another brilliant night's work by the Donald.
Really, as I've said before, I have suspicion he doesn't actually want to win.0 -
Talking of mad men who one might suspect is trying not want to win...
Hollande's Le Monde interviews 'political suicide'
In a collection of interviews just published by two Le Monde journalists, the French president unburdens himself, in astonishingly cavalier style, of a series of revealing jibes:
The justice system is full of "cowards"
There are "too many" immigrants
There is a "problem" with Islam
Footballers need "brain-building"
Intellectuals are "not very interested in the idea of France"
Valerie Trierweiler was a traitor because she lied about his famous "toothless" quote about the poor.
Perhaps most damaging of all, not a jibe but a revelation: the admission that he personally ordered the assassination of four enemies of the state, presumably militants in the Middle East.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-37702917
The only thing missing is build a wall...0 -
You could both join UKIP, then take it 'outside'.Theuniondivvie said:
I'm not your mate.JosiasJessop said:
Your words, mate. Your words.Theuniondivvie said:
Ah, invective at the 'your mum smells' level. Always shatteringly effective.JosiasJessop said:
"self pitying whiners"Theuniondivvie said:
Well, David Cameron has set the precedent for that..Gardenwalker said:
Another gerrymander.Theuniondivvie said:It's definitely not gonna happen though.
Definitely, definitely not.
https://twitter.com/GrayInGlasgow/status/789028032644255744
https://twitter.com/GrayInGlasgow/status/789028634577305600
https://twitter.com/GrayInGlasgow/status/789030740323368960
What about Scots living outside Scotland,not least those living in the rest of the U.K.?
Why don't they get to vote on the future of the country they were born in?
Actually first time round I thought that some acknowledgment should be made to ex pat/economic migrant (delete to taste) Scots: perhaps being on the Holyrood voters' roll at some point since 1998, or some reasonably convoluted application system that ensured they would have to make some effort to get a vote. However (much like smokers and the smoking in pubs ban) they turned out to be such self pitying whiners, I now think sod them.
You mean Scottish Nationalists?0 -
Any views on turnout in the presidential election? My assumption is that it might be higher than usual - the intensity with which both candidates are disliked will provoke many to vote against the one that they hate most. Do others feel differently?0
-
I think that's right.JonathanD said:
My understanding was that students were counted on their way out, so in theory if they were all returning home after studies then they should net out of the overall migration figures. Obviously there is a lag if student numbers overall increase rapidly.Gardenwalker said:The FT reports that Hammond at the Treasury Select Committee y'day is keen to exclude students from the migration numbers.
Tyrie cited a survey in which only 1/5 of people considered students migrants.
Would very much help get some sanity back; assist in May's delivery of targets (which I think ought to have been abandoned completely); and protect one of major export industries.
What's not to like?
Its only if they stay on as workers that they appear in the net migration numbers.
But students make up approx 50pc (from memory) of internal migration so it would certainly help that component...and I think the lag has been large too as you say.
0 -
I'm not so sure. Saying something like: "We think Scotland is a special positive case when it comes to Euro membership," might go some way to defusing a big argument against independence.Alistair said:
Even if the EU/EC wanted to it absolutely will not say anything without explicitly being invited to do so by the UK government. Absolute non starter.JosiasJessop said:As I mentioned least week, it will be interesting to see if the EU makes Scotland an offer it cannot refuse.
That would be very mischievous.
However, as other have said passim, Spain and others might have something to say about such a policy.0 -
Afternoon thread is on that very market.AlastairMeeks said:Any views on turnout in the presidential election? My assumption is that it might be higher than usual - the intensity with which both candidates are disliked will provoke many to vote against the one that they hate most. Do others feel differently?
0 -
Wash your mouth out! I'd never join UKIP.logical_song said:
You could both join UKIP, then take it 'outside'.Theuniondivvie said:
I'm not your mate.JosiasJessop said:
Your words, mate. Your words.Theuniondivvie said:
Ah, invective at the 'your mum smells' level. Always shatteringly effective.JosiasJessop said:
"self pitying whiners"Theuniondivvie said:
Well, David Cameron has set the precedent for that..Gardenwalker said:
Another gerrymander.Theuniondivvie said:It's definitely not gonna happen though.
Definitely, definitely not.
https://twitter.com/GrayInGlasgow/status/789028032644255744
https://twitter.com/GrayInGlasgow/status/789028634577305600
https://twitter.com/GrayInGlasgow/status/789030740323368960
What about Scots living outside Scotland,not least those living in the rest of the U.K.?
Why don't they get to vote on the future of the country they were born in?
Actually first time round I thought that some acknowledgment should be made to ex pat/economic migrant (delete to taste) Scots: perhaps being on the Holyrood voters' roll at some point since 1998, or some reasonably convoluted application system that ensured they would have to make some effort to get a vote. However (much like smokers and the smoking in pubs ban) they turned out to be such self pitying whiners, I now think sod them.
You mean Scottish Nationalists?
They're too sensible for me.
0 -
Is there anything in there that we all wouldn't have personally said at one stage or another?FrancisUrquhart said:Talking of mad men who one might suspect is trying not want to win...
Hollande's Le Monde interviews 'political suicide'
In a collection of interviews just published by two Le Monde journalists, the French president unburdens himself, in astonishingly cavalier style, of a series of revealing jibes:
The justice system is full of "cowards"
There are "too many" immigrants
There is a "problem" with Islam
Footballers need "brain-building"
Intellectuals are "not very interested in the idea of France"
Valerie Trierweiler was a traitor because she lied about his famous "toothless" quote about the poor.
Perhaps most damaging of all, not a jibe but a revelation: the admission that he personally ordered the assassination of four enemies of the state, presumably militants in the Middle East.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-37702917
The only thing missing is build a wall...
I mean, I don't have a mistress, but if I did and she went to the papers I'd certainly consider it treachery.0 -
% for "none of the top two" might be an interesting market - I would bet higher than usual.AlastairMeeks said:Any views on turnout in the presidential election? My assumption is that it might be higher than usual - the intensity with which both candidates are disliked will provoke many to vote against the one that they hate most. Do others feel differently?
0 -
At the risk of being expelled from Yorkshire as a traitor, why the eff are we playing Ballance and not Buttler?0
-
Were there any (preferably independent) studies into why Yes lost the last referendum?0
-
A gorilla that escaped from its enclosure at London Zoo drank five litres of undiluted blackcurrant squash before being returned to his den,
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-37710435
0 -
Its a bonkers decision. Balance never looks up to the standard required.TheScreamingEagles said:At the risk of being expelled from Yorkshire as a traitor, why the eff are we playing Ballance and not Buttler?
0
