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  • Scott_P
    Scott_P Posts: 51,453
    PlatoSaid said:

    Hannan hates foreigners? What idiotic tosh.

    Nobody said Hannan hates foreigners.

    The campaign was won by the message "We hate resent foreigners"

    Dan, and the others Brexit cheerleaders who deny that fact, are idiots.
  • Sunil_Prasannan
    Sunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,076
    rcs1000 said:

    taffys said:

    One for Scott

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/10/10/currency-guru-says-pound-slide-liberates-uk-from-malign-grip-of/

    “The UK economy is rebalancing amazingly well. It is a stunning achievement that a once-in-fifty-year event should have gone to smoothly,” he told the Telegraph.

    So, now we should listen to IMF analysts?
    It was good enough for REMAIN back in June :)
  • Scott_P
    Scott_P Posts: 51,453
    rcs1000 said:

    So, now we should listen to IMF analysts?

    We have had enough of experts...
  • JosiasJessop
    JosiasJessop Posts: 46,250
    Mortimer said:

    Not at all Mr Walker.

    The headbangers want to frustrate at every turn. They are willing a bad deal on the country through wailing and gnashing their ineffective gums.

    And they need to be slapped down. This, the weakest argument in their canon, can be countered by putting some stick about within the party. This can be doing by suggesting party unity is what kelps them in a job. In more ways than one. Deselection, danger of electoral defeat and withdrawing the whip are the tools for the job.

    Oddly, those tools were not used against the Europhobic 'bastards' (headbangers) who ruined the party in the nineties and naughties. Party unity meant nothing to them, and they (generally) kept their jobs. As with Corbyn, the disloyal demanding loyalty will be laughed at.

    However, this is about much more than party. The country is in a rather perilous position, and the sooner we know what the final settlement will be, the better for everyone. It might be that a good deal that takes five years to negotiate might be much worse than a poorer deal concluded quickly, because the interim uncertainty *will* damage us.

    Both Europhobes and Europhiles need to be thinking about the good of the country, not their own beliefs.
  • PlatoSaid
    PlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    tlg86 said:

    not_on_fire said:

    MarkHopkins said:


    I don't buy that the referendum was close.

    The weight of establishment was on the side of Remain, it was the status quo, and they mustered a number of heavyweights on their side.

    All Leave had was Nigel and Boris! For Leave to get to a 52:48 win was a phenomenally good result for them.

    Erm, and the Dacre/Murdoch press stable
    Oh look...

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/05/02/if-zac-loses-london-and-the-brexiters-fail-it-will-say-a-lot-about-the-declining-influence-of-the-press/

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2015/02/09/maybe-ed-miliband-has-judged-that-the-tory-press-isnt-the-force-that-it-was-anymore/

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/03/25/read-all-about-it-the-news-sources-that-matter-nowadays/

    My favourite is this line from Mr Meeks:

    Newspapers influence relatively few people. Their sales have been declining for a generation and their audience penetration has been dropping particularly sharply recently. Their readers appear literally to be dying off.
    :lol:

    If only some of the richest posters could fork out about £9pcm for the Times. They brag about their wine choices and social/flying life benefits.
  • RobD
    RobD Posts: 60,608
    rcs1000 said:

    taffys said:

    One for Scott

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/10/10/currency-guru-says-pound-slide-liberates-uk-from-malign-grip-of/

    “The UK economy is rebalancing amazingly well. It is a stunning achievement that a once-in-fifty-year event should have gone to smoothly,” he told the Telegraph.

    So, now we should listen to IMF analysts?
    When have they ever been wrong?? ;)
  • taffys
    taffys Posts: 9,753
    ''So, now we should listen to IMF analysts?''

    Its an observation as opposed to a prediction....
  • Theuniondivvie
    Theuniondivvie Posts: 44,327
    MonikerDiCanio said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    It's good to have a sense of Leavers' priorities:

    https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/785841624165281792

    No wonder the evil eye settled on Blair. His petty malice will be repaid a hundredfold.
    Howarth's darkest day can be lightened a little by the fact that Brittania hasn't been scrapped. Of course it was the Conservatives who originally proposed that the current HMY Brittania should be retired.
  • TOPPING
    TOPPING Posts: 44,060
    RobD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    taffys said:

    One for Scott

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/10/10/currency-guru-says-pound-slide-liberates-uk-from-malign-grip-of/

    “The UK economy is rebalancing amazingly well. It is a stunning achievement that a once-in-fifty-year event should have gone to smoothly,” he told the Telegraph.

    So, now we should listen to IMF analysts?
    When have they ever been wrong?? ;)
    It's also now good that a Bank of England governor has popped up that the Leavers can get behind.
  • SouthamObserver
    SouthamObserver Posts: 40,054
    619 said:

    I think Donald has to be viewed as running as a third party candidate in all but name now.

    How long before FOX stops giving him support? ( Aside from Hannitty of course)

    Remind me again how well Trump does on 'Has he the right temperament for president?'

    Glenn Beck is not a liberal lefty:

    http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/300352-glenn-beck-i-considered-voting-for-hillary

  • RobD
    RobD Posts: 60,608
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/11/osborne-cable-heseltine-industrial-strategy-live/

    Osborne tells May to get on with Heathrow... not as if the previous lot had a chance to approve it, oh no.
  • TOPPING
    TOPPING Posts: 44,060
    JosiasJessop said:

    Mortimer said:

    Not at all Mr Walker.

    The headbangers want to frustrate at every turn. They are willing a bad deal on the country through wailing and gnashing their ineffective gums.

    And they need to be slapped down. This, the weakest argument in their canon, can be countered by putting some stick about within the party. This can be doing by suggesting party unity is what kelps them in a job. In more ways than one. Deselection, danger of electoral defeat and withdrawing the whip are the tools for the job.

    However, this is about much more than party. The country is in a rather perilous position, and the sooner we know what the final settlement will be, the better for everyone. It might be that a good deal that takes five years to negotiate might be much worse than a poorer deal concluded quickly, because the interim uncertainty *will* damage us.
    Hockey stick recoveries are rarely achieved in the time frame originally (and optimistically) modelled.
  • Ishmael_X
    Ishmael_X Posts: 3,664
    rcs1000 said:

    taffys said:

    One for Scott

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/10/10/currency-guru-says-pound-slide-liberates-uk-from-malign-grip-of/

    “The UK economy is rebalancing amazingly well. It is a stunning achievement that a once-in-fifty-year event should have gone to smoothly,” he told the Telegraph.

    So, now we should listen to IMF analysts?
    Personally I could listen to them all day long while they tell us what has happened and what is happening (like this bloke). It is only when they start telling us what will happen that I reach for my revolver.
  • JosiasJessop
    JosiasJessop Posts: 46,250
    PlatoSaid said:

    Patrick said:

    Scott_P said:

    Patrick said:

    What about big, proud, open, expansive, trade based, internationally engaging nationalism? Your comment seems to suggest anyone who is proud of their country and wishes for it to become a better country but still a country (as opposed to an administrative region of a superstate) is somehow compromised.

    Anyone who claims the vote was not won by the message "we hate foreigners" is an idiot.

    Like Dan Hannan.
    Oh you're dead right that that was the deciding factor - ruthlessly exploited by those who were fighting for the same result but different reasons. The 'freedom' vote has been surpressed by the establishment for 40 years. Vote Leave took their chance. I crawled across broken glass to vote leave. But would be entirely happy with a soft Brexit. All my relatives who voted remain did so despite their intrinsic dislike and distrust of the EU because they were persuaded by Project Fear. All have since told me they'd vote leave if it was rerun today.

    I would however somewhat dispute your choice of the word 'hate'. I think 'resent' is better. It's not a 'yuk Romanian untermensch' view so much as a 'why am I at the back of the housing, school places, GP slots, jobs queue with all these Romanians in town' view. For some that morphs into hate. But not for most.
    I'm delighted with @edmundintokyo Ignore function - Hannan hates foreigners? What idiotic tosh. He's Peruvian and speaks several languages.

    What a nitwit.

    I remain surprised that PBers who know a great deal better indulge in such crappy stuff.

    We all have eyes and there's no Facebook likes to earn.
    The defence of 'He's a foreigner, he cannot hate foreigners' should be consigned to the same dustbin (some might think of it as a 'liberal dustbin') as phrases like 'only whites can be racist' or 'only men can be sexist'.

    Though I'm certain this is not the case for Hannan, it's perfectly possible to be a foreigner and hate other foreigners. As an example (of dislike, not hatred): a friend of mine is originally from an EU country, and she voted for Brexit because too many people from her birth country were entering and getting free housing ...
  • PlatoSaid
    PlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Nigelb said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Boiled down, Hillary’s case amounts to: vote for me because Trump said something derogatory to a former Miss Universe in the 1990s. Is that the best she can come up with? Given Hillary’s feminism and identity politics, it wouldn’t take a clairvoyant to know that she would push the sexism card...

    Moreover, for Clinton herself, it’s a problematic line of attack: she likes to espouse the ‘believe all victims’ mantra of the new feminists, yet for decades she has smeared her husband’s accusers...

    Challenged to defend her Wikileaks-revealed comments to Goldman Sachs about having a public and private persona, Clinton tried to claim she was referencing Abraham Lincoln. Trump counterpunched with his best line of the evening: ‘She lied, and now she’s blaming the lie on the late, great Abraham Lincoln.’ In another telling moment, as Clinton argued that she could bring the country together, Trump reminded us that Hillary views a huge swathe of the population as ‘deplorable’ and ‘irredeemable’. Again, a very effective use of turning Clinton’s own weakness – her elitism – against her.

    http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/trump-and-clinton-how-low-can-they-go/18855#.V_zWy_sp0s6.twitter

    Boiled down, Trump's argument seem to be 'vote for me because I'm a genius, and everyone else, including the rest of the Republican party, are idiots'.

    Of course, if they do, they'll prove him right.
    Golly - what immense twaddle. I've seen more interesting 140 characters on Twitter.

    Try again.
  • JosiasJessop
    JosiasJessop Posts: 46,250
    TOPPING said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    Mortimer said:

    Not at all Mr Walker.

    The headbangers want to frustrate at every turn. They are willing a bad deal on the country through wailing and gnashing their ineffective gums.

    And they need to be slapped down. This, the weakest argument in their canon, can be countered by putting some stick about within the party. This can be doing by suggesting party unity is what kelps them in a job. In more ways than one. Deselection, danger of electoral defeat and withdrawing the whip are the tools for the job.

    However, this is about much more than party. The country is in a rather perilous position, and the sooner we know what the final settlement will be, the better for everyone. It might be that a good deal that takes five years to negotiate might be much worse than a poorer deal concluded quickly, because the interim uncertainty *will* damage us.
    Hockey stick recoveries are rarely achieved in the time frame originally (and optimistically) modelled.
    I'm not sure if that comment's meant to agree or disagree with mine ... ;)
  • TonyE
    TonyE Posts: 938
    rcs1000 said:

    taffys said:

    One for Scott

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/10/10/currency-guru-says-pound-slide-liberates-uk-from-malign-grip-of/

    “The UK economy is rebalancing amazingly well. It is a stunning achievement that a once-in-fifty-year event should have gone to smoothly,” he told the Telegraph.

    So, now we should listen to IMF analysts?
    I have to admit that I don't really trust the IMF to make good predictions of anything, because they have an agenda which was for a very long time, Pro EU. They might have had good reasons for this, in that they might have thought that it would stabilise countries which had long had overspending and debt issues, but it is an agenda all the same.

    In the Brexit campaign, I took a developed a healthy scepticism of anyone connected even loosely with the exercise of government, or had been involved in advice directly to governments and big business. That might be right or wrong, but anything that I heard or read I simply attempted to trace to primary sources.
  • TOPPING
    TOPPING Posts: 44,060
    JosiasJessop said:

    TOPPING said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    Mortimer said:

    Not at all Mr Walker.

    The headbangers want to frustrate at every turn. They are willing a bad deal on the country through wailing and gnashing their ineffective gums.

    And they need to be slapped down. This, the weakest argument in their canon, can be countered by putting some stick about within the party. This can be doing by suggesting party unity is what kelps them in a job. In more ways than one. Deselection, danger of electoral defeat and withdrawing the whip are the tools for the job.

    However, this is about much more than party. The country is in a rather perilous position, and the sooner we know what the final settlement will be, the better for everyone. It might be that a good deal that takes five years to negotiate might be much worse than a poorer deal concluded quickly, because the interim uncertainty *will* damage us.
    Hockey stick recoveries are rarely achieved in the time frame originally (and optimistically) modelled.
    I'm not sure if that comment's meant to agree or disagree with mine ... ;)
    ha! My point agrees with you. Plenty of value can be destroyed in the near future which any amount of value creation further down the line will not compensate for.
  • surbiton
    surbiton Posts: 13,549
    PlatoSaid said:

    tlg86 said:

    not_on_fire said:

    MarkHopkins said:


    I don't buy that the referendum was close.

    The weight of establishment was on the side of Remain, it was the status quo, and they mustered a number of heavyweights on their side.

    All Leave had was Nigel and Boris! For Leave to get to a 52:48 win was a phenomenally good result for them.

    Erm, and the Dacre/Murdoch press stable
    Oh look...

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/05/02/if-zac-loses-london-and-the-brexiters-fail-it-will-say-a-lot-about-the-declining-influence-of-the-press/

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2015/02/09/maybe-ed-miliband-has-judged-that-the-tory-press-isnt-the-force-that-it-was-anymore/

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/03/25/read-all-about-it-the-news-sources-that-matter-nowadays/

    My favourite is this line from Mr Meeks:

    Newspapers influence relatively few people. Their sales have been declining for a generation and their audience penetration has been dropping particularly sharply recently. Their readers appear literally to be dying off.
    :lol:

    If only some of the richest posters could fork out about £9pcm for the Times. They brag about their wine choices and social/flying life benefits.
    Pay £9 for Murdoch's rag ?
  • Dromedary
    Dromedary Posts: 1,194
    edited October 2016
    Ishmael_X said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    Here's a luvvie who REALLY hates Hillary.

    https://twitter.com/therealroseanne

    Lots of pro Israel, anti Muslim, anti immigrant/migrant stuff with a seasoning of watery Trump exoneration.

    Inneressing point she makes: google the one word "rapist" and see what you get in images, and in all results. If this is manipulation by trumpers, frightening that it is doable and extraordinary that google haven't done anything about it.
    Uh? You're not grasping what's happening. Google ARE doing something: they are filling your browser window with anti-Clinton (i.e. pro-Trump) material when you search on the word "rapist". They did the same to me, and they're probably doing the same to many people. Sounds as though they're helping Trump in quite a big way.

    Now try doing the same search using an engine run by a less underhand company, for example DuckDuckGo, who choose what results to give you without using any information about you and who, some might say, aren't as evil as Google. (Click here to do a DuckDuckGo search on "rapist".) They do serve anti-Clinton material, at items 5 and 9, but they serve an anti-Trump piece at item 13, before a later piece at item 54 that talks of how Bill Clinton responded to an accusation that he is a rapist. But they don't fill the window with anti-Clinton material.
  • MonikerDiCanio
    MonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    SouthamObserver said:

    619 said:

    I think Donald has to be viewed as running as a third party candidate in all but name now.

    How long before FOX stops giving him support? ( Aside from Hannitty of course)

    Remind me again how well Trump does on 'Has he the right temperament for president?'

    Glenn Beck is not a liberal lefty:

    http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/300352-glenn-beck-i-considered-voting-for-hillary

    Hillary isn't a liberal lefty. She's a bought and paid for tool of warmongers and plutocrats.
  • PlatoSaid
    PlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Scott_P said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Hannan hates foreigners? What idiotic tosh.

    Nobody said Hannan hates foreigners.

    The campaign was won by the message "We hate resent foreigners"

    Dan, and the others Brexit cheerleaders who deny that fact, are idiots.
    Your heroic retweeting of Ian Dunt and Rupert Myers has convinced me. Oh and Hugo Rifkind.

    Seriously. It's not convincing anyone like me. And I suspect 98% of others either way. The vote happened and Remain LOST.
  • Pong
    Pong Posts: 4,693
    Excellent from Faisal Islam on Theresa May's problematic mandate(s);

    http://news.sky.com/story/sky-views-brexit-means-leaving-eu-everything-else-is-politics-10613139
  • TOPPING
    TOPPING Posts: 44,060
    Dromedary said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    Here's a luvvie who REALLY hates Hillary.

    https://twitter.com/therealroseanne

    Lots of pro Israel, anti Muslim, anti immigrant/migrant stuff with a seasoning of watery Trump exoneration.

    Inneressing point she makes: google the one word "rapist" and see what you get in images, and in all results. If this is manipulation by trumpers, frightening that it is doable and extraordinary that google haven't done anything about it.
    Uh? You're not grasping what's happening. Google ARE doing something: they are filling your browser window with anti-Clinton (i.e. pro-Trump) material when you search on the word "rapist". They did the same to me, and they're probably doing the same to many people. Sounds as though they're helping Trump in quite a big way.

    Now try doing the same search using an engine run by a less underhand company, for example DuckDuckGo, who choose what results to give you without using any information about you and who, some might say, aren't as evil as Google. (Click here to do a DuckDuckGo search on "rapist".) They do serve anti-Clinton material, at items 5 and 9, and an anti-Trump piece at item 13, and then a piece at item 54 that talks of how Bill Clinton responded to an accusation that he is a rapist. But they don't fill the window with anti-Clinton material.
    Why on earth would anyone search on the word "rapist"?
  • JosiasJessop
    JosiasJessop Posts: 46,250
    Dromedary said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    Here's a luvvie who REALLY hates Hillary.

    https://twitter.com/therealroseanne

    Lots of pro Israel, anti Muslim, anti immigrant/migrant stuff with a seasoning of watery Trump exoneration.

    Inneressing point she makes: google the one word "rapist" and see what you get in images, and in all results. If this is manipulation by trumpers, frightening that it is doable and extraordinary that google haven't done anything about it.
    Uh? You're not grasping what's happening. Google ARE doing something: they are filling your browser window with anti-Clinton (i.e. pro-Trump) material when you search on the word "rapist". They did the same to me, and they're probably doing the same to many people. Sounds as though they're helping Trump in quite a big way.

    Now try doing the same search using an engine run by a less underhand company, for example DuckDuckGo, who choose what results to give you without using any information about you and who, some might say, aren't as evil as Google. (Click here to do a DuckDuckGo search on "rapist".) They do serve anti-Clinton material, at items 5 and 9, and an anti-Trump piece at item 13, and then a piece at item 54 that talks of how Bill Clinton responded to an accusation that he is a rapist. But they don't fill the window with anti-Clinton material.
    more likely to be malgorithms than intentional.
  • Ishmael_X
    Ishmael_X Posts: 3,664
    Dromedary said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    Here's a luvvie who REALLY hates Hillary.

    https://twitter.com/therealroseanne

    Lots of pro Israel, anti Muslim, anti immigrant/migrant stuff with a seasoning of watery Trump exoneration.

    Inneressing point she makes: google the one word "rapist" and see what you get in images, and in all results. If this is manipulation by trumpers, frightening that it is doable and extraordinary that google haven't done anything about it.
    Uh? You're not grasping what's happening. Google ARE doing something: they are filling your browser window with anti-Clinton (i.e. pro-Trump) material when you search on the word "rapist". They did the same to me, and they're probably doing the same to many people. Sounds as though they're helping Trump in quite a big way.

    Now try doing the same search using an engine run by a less underhand company, for example DuckDuckGo, who choose what results to give you without using any information about you and who, some might say, aren't as evil as Google. (Click here to do a DuckDuckGo search on "rapist".) They do serve anti-Clinton material, at items 5 and 9, and an anti-Trump piece at item 13, and then a piece at item 54 that talks of how Bill Clinton responded to an accusation that he is rapist. But they don't fill the window with pro-Trump material.
    OK, I must bone up on my lizardman understanding. I thought - crudely - that google = California tech = democrat = hillary.

    When you say "They did the same to me, and they're probably doing the same to many people. " - I don't think it works like that - I think everyonr sees the same thing, adjusting a bit for what country they are in.
  • Morris_Dancer
    Morris_Dancer Posts: 62,742
    Mr. Pong, bit hard for me to take anything Faisal Islam says seriously. The man's a lightweight. The Andy Burnham of journalism. But with less mascara.
  • williamglenn
    williamglenn Posts: 56,289
    https://twitter.com/chrislhayes/status/785849732476329984
  • Big_G_NorthWales
    Big_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,238
    It seems to be that the remain camp have decided that they need to re-start their fear campaign in an attempt to scare the voter into pressurising to reverse the referendum result or at the least delay and harry the legitimate move by Theresa May to just get on with it and serve A50.

    The remainers just do not understand that the people will not accept anything less than UK laws made in Parliament and judged by our own judiciary no matter the cost.

    And it's called democracy
  • Mortimer
    Mortimer Posts: 14,229
    JosiasJessop said:

    Mortimer said:

    Not at all Mr Walker.

    The headbangers want to frustrate at every turn. They are willing a bad deal on the country through wailing and gnashing their ineffective gums.

    And they need to be slapped down. This, the weakest argument in their canon, can be countered by putting some stick about within the party. This can be doing by suggesting party unity is what kelps them in a job. In more ways than one. Deselection, danger of electoral defeat and withdrawing the whip are the tools for the job.

    Oddly, those tools were not used against the Europhobic 'bastards' (headbangers) who ruined the party in the nineties and naughties. Party unity meant nothing to them, and they (generally) kept their jobs. As with Corbyn, the disloyal demanding loyalty will be laughed at.

    However, this is about much more than party. The country is in a rather perilous position, and the sooner we know what the final settlement will be, the better for everyone. It might be that a good deal that takes five years to negotiate might be much worse than a poorer deal concluded quickly, because the interim uncertainty *will* damage us.

    Both Europhobes and Europhiles need to be thinking about the good of the country, not their own beliefs.
    It is exactly because the new headbangers so affects the future of this country that May would be much more likely to put some stick about than Major ever would have done....
  • Sunil_Prasannan
    Sunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,076
    Pong said:

    Excellent from Faisal Islam

    Translation: yet more REMOANING from Faisal :lol:
  • PlatoSaid
    PlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    SouthamObserver said:

    619 said:

    I think Donald has to be viewed as running as a third party candidate in all but name now.

    How long before FOX stops giving him support? ( Aside from Hannitty of course)

    Remind me again how well Trump does on 'Has he the right temperament for president?'

    Glenn Beck is not a liberal lefty:

    http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/300352-glenn-beck-i-considered-voting-for-hillary

    Glen Beck? He's gone off the reservation. He hates 9/11 families too for attention seeking.

    Seriously. I heard one of his shows earlier today and thought urgh. I see his point - but he shock-jocked too much for me here.
  • Sean_F
    Sean_F Posts: 39,132
    malcolmg said:

    Scott_P said:

    MonikerDiCanio said:

    How you used to mock the 45%ers.

    Hey !

    I continue to mock the 45%ers, for the same reason I mock the Brexiteers.

    Petty Nationalism (in any guise) is a cancerous ideology that must be opposed at all times.
    Of course your petty British Nationalism is pure I am sure and different from everyone else. Do you realise how pathetic you sound.
    I think his brand of nationalism is European nationalism.
  • AlastairMeeks
    AlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Lights touchpaper and retires:

    https://twitter.com/pierremoscovici/status/785567880213630976
  • Dromedary
    Dromedary Posts: 1,194
    edited October 2016
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Uh oh, brace yourselves the shackles are coming off, up to now we've had the shy and restrained Donald

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/785842546878578688

    ROFL! He's going to be his real self now. P-word! N-word! (Or is it "I''ll sue you to hell if you show the tapes"? Something, anyway! Make his day, all you punks!) Poison gas for a 10-mile strip on the Mexican side of the border! It was the liberals who made his "ban all Muslims" policy "morph" into tough vetting. Well now it's "morphed" again, and even Muslim diplomats won't be allowed in.

    But wait: he finds it "hard to do well", because of Republican treachery!

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/785816454042124288

    The poor baby!
  • Ishmael_X
    Ishmael_X Posts: 3,664
    TOPPING said:

    Dromedary said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    Here's a luvvie who REALLY hates Hillary.

    https://twitter.com/therealroseanne

    Lots of pro Israel, anti Muslim, anti immigrant/migrant stuff with a seasoning of watery Trump exoneration.

    Inneressing point she makes: google the one word "rapist" and see what you get in images, and in all results. If this is manipulation by trumpers, frightening that it is doable and extraordinary that google haven't done anything about it.
    Uh? You're not grasping what's happening. Google ARE doing something: they are filling your browser window with anti-Clinton (i.e. pro-Trump) material when you search on the word "rapist". They did the same to me, and they're probably doing the same to many people. Sounds as though they're helping Trump in quite a big way.

    Now try doing the same search using an engine run by a less underhand company, for example DuckDuckGo, who choose what results to give you without using any information about you and who, some might say, aren't as evil as Google. (Click here to do a DuckDuckGo search on "rapist".) They do serve anti-Clinton material, at items 5 and 9, and an anti-Trump piece at item 13, and then a piece at item 54 that talks of how Bill Clinton responded to an accusation that he is a rapist. But they don't fill the window with anti-Clinton material.
    Why on earth would anyone search on the word "rapist"?
    One letter less to type than Clinton?
  • taffys
    taffys Posts: 9,753
    ''The remainers just do not understand that the people will not accept anything less than UK laws made in Parliament and judged by our own judiciary no matter the cost.''

    CapX has a brilliant essay by Graham Brady on the glaring injustices already wrought by the European Arrest Warrant, injustices which UK citizens will thankfully soon be no longer exposed to.
  • Scott_P
    Scott_P Posts: 51,453
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    It seems to be that the remain camp have decided that they need to re-start their fear campaign in an attempt to scare the voter into pressurising to reverse the referendum result or at the least delay and harry the legitimate move by Theresa May to just get on with it and serve A50.

    The remainers just do not understand that the people will not accept anything less than UK laws made in Parliament and judged by our own judiciary no matter the cost.

    No

    I am fully behind the Ganesh proposal.

    Hard Brexit must be tested (to destruction), but I am under no obligation to cheer it while it happens.
  • Sean_F
    Sean_F Posts: 39,132
    SeanT said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. T, that's why I didn't agree with Mr. Eagles' line that we should, could've and would've been better off to vote Remain, then in a decade or so vote to leave.

    Any difficulty now would be far greater then.

    Yep. For a while pre-vote I was persuaded by this argument, "the referendum comes at the wrong time, we should vote in a decade" etc

    If we'd have voted to Stay the great march to a Federal Europe would have simply accelerated, with the British firmly shackled to the cause.

    It's unnoticed by many, but the EU is proceeding with lots more integration, as we ponder Brexit. Yes we might have stopped the EU army, for a few years, but the EU is also taking over insolvency law.

    http://www.wsj.com/articles/eu-to-push-ahead-with-harmonizing-national-insolvency-laws-1473862661

    On and on. It's relentless. In a decade the idea of British independence would have become a sometimes-useful fiction, a colourful ghost in a story told to the voters. We would be independent the same way Malay kingdoms are "independent" of Kuala Lumpur.
    Had we delayed ten years, we would have heard the same argument, that the time wasn't right. But, as you point out, we'd have got further enmeshed in the EU (complaining about it all the while).
  • MonikerDiCanio
    MonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    williamglenn said:

    https://twitter.com/chrislhayes/status/785849732476329984

    Overstated. Trump is like Thatcher and the wets like Ryan and McCain need to go.
  • Morris_Dancer
    Morris_Dancer Posts: 62,742
    Mr. Meeks, I'm perplexed by your post. Do you think ridiculous transaction taxes will make the EU look more attractive to investment, versus the UK?

    It's great news. It'll help persuade firms to stay and do business in the UK.
  • surbiton
    surbiton Posts: 13,549
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. Meeks, I'm perplexed by your post. Do you think ridiculous transaction taxes will make the EU look more attractive to investment, versus the UK?

    It's great news. It'll help persuade firms to stay and do business in the UK.

    Hardly. They will go where the business is.
  • PlatoSaid
    PlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    JosiasJessop said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Patrick said:

    Scott_P said:

    Patrick said:

    What about big, proud, open, expansive, trade based, internationally engaging nationalism? Your comment seems to suggest anyone who is proud of their country and wishes for it to become a better country but still a country (as opposed to an administrative region of a superstate) is somehow compromised.

    Anyone who claims the vote was not won by the message "we hate foreigners" is an idiot.

    Like Dan Hannan.
    Oh you're dead right that that was the deciding factor - ruthlessly exploited by those who were fighting for the same result but different reasons. The 'freedom' vote has been surpressed by the establishment for 40 years. Vote Leave took their chance. I crawled across broken glass to vote leave. But would be entirely happy with a soft Brexit. All my relatives who voted remain did so despite their intrinsic dislike and distrust of the EU because they were persuaded by Project Fear. All have since told me they'd vote leave if it was rerun today.

    I would however somewhat dispute your choice of the word 'hate'. I think 'resent' is better. It's not a 'yuk Romanian untermensch' view so much as a 'why am I at the back of the housing, school places, GP slots, jobs queue with all these Romanians in town' view. For some that morphs into hate. But not for most.
    I'm delighted with @edmundintokyo Ignore function - Hannan hates foreigners? What idiotic tosh. He's Peruvian and speaks several languages.

    What a nitwit.

    I remain surprised that PBers who know a great deal better indulge in such crappy stuff.

    We all have eyes and there's no Facebook likes to earn.
    The defence of 'He's a foreigner, he cannot hate foreigners' should be consigned to the same dustbin (some might think of it as a 'liberal dustbin') as phrases like 'only whites can be racist' or 'only men can be sexist'.

    Though I'm certain this is not the case for Hannan, it's perfectly possible to be a foreigner and hate other foreigners. As an example (of dislike, not hatred): a friend of mine is originally from an EU country, and she voted for Brexit because too many people from her birth country were entering and getting free housing ...
    I don't know what's happened to you re illness - but your post re me are really odd.

    Perhaps, better to ignore them entirely. I wish you and family well.
  • JosiasJessop
    JosiasJessop Posts: 46,250
    Mortimer said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    Mortimer said:

    Not at all Mr Walker.

    The headbangers want to frustrate at every turn. They are willing a bad deal on the country through wailing and gnashing their ineffective gums.

    And they need to be slapped down. This, the weakest argument in their canon, can be countered by putting some stick about within the party. This can be doing by suggesting party unity is what kelps them in a job. In more ways than one. Deselection, danger of electoral defeat and withdrawing the whip are the tools for the job.

    Oddly, those tools were not used against the Europhobic 'bastards' (headbangers) who ruined the party in the nineties and naughties. Party unity meant nothing to them, and they (generally) kept their jobs. As with Corbyn, the disloyal demanding loyalty will be laughed at.

    However, this is about much more than party. The country is in a rather perilous position, and the sooner we know what the final settlement will be, the better for everyone. It might be that a good deal that takes five years to negotiate might be much worse than a poorer deal concluded quickly, because the interim uncertainty *will* damage us.

    Both Europhobes and Europhiles need to be thinking about the good of the country, not their own beliefs.
    It is exactly because the new headbangers so affects the future of this country that May would be much more likely to put some stick about than Major ever would have done....
    Yes, that was why I started a paragraph with 'however'.

    But May's proverbial stick will need to be waved in both directions. The original 'bastards' are still prominent and are just as noisy. The think they are in the ascendant, and if they don't get everything they want ...
  • Sunil_Prasannan
    Sunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,076
    Scott_P said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    It seems to be that the remain camp have decided that they need to re-start their fear campaign in an attempt to scare the voter into pressurising to reverse the referendum result or at the least delay and harry the legitimate move by Theresa May to just get on with it and serve A50.

    The remainers just do not understand that the people will not accept anything less than UK laws made in Parliament and judged by our own judiciary no matter the cost.

    No

    I am fully behind the Ganesh proposal.

    Hard Brexit must be tested (to destruction), but I am under no obligation to cheer it while it happens.
    Ganesh proposal?

    Where you have your own head cut off and replaced with that from an elephant?
  • MaxPB
    MaxPB Posts: 40,327
    AlastairMeeks said:

    Lights touchpaper and retires:

    https://twitter.com/pierremoscovici/status/785567880213630976

    More red carpet than they know what to do with, clearly. :D
  • Sean_F
    Sean_F Posts: 39,132
    Ishmael_X said:

    Dromedary said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    Here's a luvvie who REALLY hates Hillary.

    https://twitter.com/therealroseanne

    Lots of pro Israel, anti Muslim, anti immigrant/migrant stuff with a seasoning of watery Trump exoneration.

    Inneressing point she makes: google the one word "rapist" and see what you get in images, and in all results. If this is manipulation by trumpers, frightening that it is doable and extraordinary that google haven't done anything about it.
    Uh? You're not grasping what's happening. Google ARE doing something: they are filling your browser window with anti-Clinton (i.e. pro-Trump) material when you search on the word "rapist". They did the same to me, and they're probably doing the same to many people. Sounds as though they're helping Trump in quite a big way.

    Now try doing the same search using an engine run by a less underhand company, for example DuckDuckGo, who choose what results to give you without using any information about you and who, some might say, aren't as evil as Google. (Click here to do a DuckDuckGo search on "rapist".) They do serve anti-Clinton material, at items 5 and 9, and an anti-Trump piece at item 13, and then a piece at item 54 that talks of how Bill Clinton responded to an accusation that he is rapist. But they don't fill the window with pro-Trump material.
    OK, I must bone up on my lizardman understanding. I thought - crudely - that google = California tech = democrat = hillary.

    When you say "They did the same to me, and they're probably doing the same to many people. " - I don't think it works like that - I think everyonr sees the same thing, adjusting a bit for what country they are in.
    I hadn't realised that Google were so diabolically cunning.
  • PlatoSaid
    PlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    RobD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    taffys said:

    One for Scott

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/10/10/currency-guru-says-pound-slide-liberates-uk-from-malign-grip-of/

    “The UK economy is rebalancing amazingly well. It is a stunning achievement that a once-in-fifty-year event should have gone to smoothly,” he told the Telegraph.

    So, now we should listen to IMF analysts?
    When have they ever been wrong?? ;)
    :lol:

    Well, I never !
  • logical_song
    logical_song Posts: 10,082
    MonikerDiCanio said:

    williamglenn said:

    https://twitter.com/chrislhayes/status/785849732476329984

    Overstated. Trump is like Thatcher and the wets like Ryan and McCain need to go.
    Wasn't Thatcher chosen by her party, rather than disowned by it?
  • Pong
    Pong Posts: 4,693
    edited October 2016
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    Pong said:

    Excellent from Faisal Islam

    Translation: yet more REMOANING from Faisal :lol:
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. Pong, bit hard for me to take anything Faisal Islam says seriously. The man's a lightweight. The Andy Burnham of journalism. But with less mascara.

    If you don't like the message, shoot the messenger.

    pft
  • MaxPB
    MaxPB Posts: 40,327
    surbiton said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. Meeks, I'm perplexed by your post. Do you think ridiculous transaction taxes will make the EU look more attractive to investment, versus the UK?

    It's great news. It'll help persuade firms to stay and do business in the UK.

    Hardly. They will go where the business is.
    Not if there is a FTT. Better to stay out and conduct business at arm's length via an intermediary or subsidiary.
  • Ishmael_X
    Ishmael_X Posts: 3,664
    Sean_F said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    Dromedary said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    Here's a luvvie who REALLY hates Hillary.

    https://twitter.com/therealroseanne

    Lots of pro Israel, anti Muslim, anti immigrant/migrant stuff with a seasoning of watery Trump exoneration.

    Inneressing point she makes: google the one word "rapist" and see what you get in images, and in all results. If this is manipulation by trumpers, frightening that it is doable and extraordinary that google haven't done anything about it.
    Uh? You're not grasping what's happening. Google ARE doing something: they are filling your browser window with anti-Clinton (i.e. pro-Trump) material when you search on the word "rapist". They did the same to me, and they're probably doing the same to many people. Sounds as though they're helping Trump in quite a big way.

    Now try doing the same search using an engine run by a less underhand company, for example DuckDuckGo, who choose what results to give you without using any information about you and who, some might say, aren't as evil as Google. (Click here to do a DuckDuckGo search on "rapist".) They do serve anti-Clinton material, at items 5 and 9, and an anti-Trump piece at item 13, and then a piece at item 54 that talks of how Bill Clinton responded to an accusation that he is rapist. But they don't fill the window with pro-Trump material.
    OK, I must bone up on my lizardman understanding. I thought - crudely - that google = California tech = democrat = hillary.

    When you say "They did the same to me, and they're probably doing the same to many people. " - I don't think it works like that - I think everyonr sees the same thing, adjusting a bit for what country they are in.
    I hadn't realised that Google were so diabolically cunning.
    Just lazy, I think - less work for them this way.
  • MarqueeMark
    MarqueeMark Posts: 55,457
    PlatoSaid said:

    Scott_P said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Hannan hates foreigners? What idiotic tosh.

    Nobody said Hannan hates foreigners.

    The campaign was won by the message "We hate resent foreigners"

    Dan, and the others Brexit cheerleaders who deny that fact, are idiots.
    Your heroic retweeting of Ian Dunt and Rupert Myers has convinced me. Oh and Hugo Rifkind.

    Seriously. It's not convincing anyone like me. And I suspect 98% of others either way. The vote happened and Remain LOST.
    We are seeing just how much the Remainers have already been infected by the EU Disease.

    "Keep voting - until you get the right result".

    I wonder if they will ever have the honesty to admit that we are leaving - and then fully campaign to rejoin. Euro and European Army and all....

    In fact, to acknowledge the inevitable departure of the UK from the EU, I shall now stop calling them Remainers and start calling them Rejoiners.....

  • Morris_Dancer
    Morris_Dancer Posts: 62,742
    Mr. Surbiton, financial firms are often very mobile* and taxes do alter behaviour.

    *Worth noting this isn't my field but there are others here who are rather more au fait with the area.
  • taffys
    taffys Posts: 9,753
    'It's great news. It'll help persuade firms to stay and do business in the UK.'

    Best news evah for leavers.
  • Dromedary
    Dromedary Posts: 1,194
    edited October 2016
    Ishmael_X said:

    Dromedary said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    Here's a luvvie who REALLY hates Hillary.

    https://twitter.com/therealroseanne

    Lots of pro Israel, anti Muslim, anti immigrant/migrant stuff with a seasoning of watery Trump exoneration.

    Inneressing point she makes: google the one word "rapist" and see what you get in images, and in all results. If this is manipulation by trumpers, frightening that it is doable and extraordinary that google haven't done anything about it.
    Uh? You're not grasping what's happening. Google ARE doing something: they are filling your browser window with anti-Clinton (i.e. pro-Trump) material when you search on the word "rapist". They did the same to me, and they're probably doing the same to many people. Sounds as though they're helping Trump in quite a big way.

    Now try doing the same search using an engine run by a less underhand company, for example DuckDuckGo, who choose what results to give you without using any information about you and who, some might say, aren't as evil as Google. (Click here to do a DuckDuckGo search on "rapist".) They do serve anti-Clinton material, at items 5 and 9, and an anti-Trump piece at item 13, and then a piece at item 54 that talks of how Bill Clinton responded to an accusation that he is rapist. But they don't fill the window with pro-Trump material.
    OK, I must bone up on my lizardman understanding. I thought - crudely - that google = California tech = democrat = hillary.

    When you say "They did the same to me, and they're probably doing the same to many people. " - I don't think it works like that - I think everyonr sees the same thing, adjusting a bit for what country they are in.
    You're very mistaken about that.

    From Google themselves:

    "When a user enters a query, our machines search the index for matching pages and return the results we believe are the most relevant to the user." (emphasis added)

    More info: filter bubble.
  • RobD
    RobD Posts: 60,608
    Pong said:

    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    Pong said:

    Excellent from Faisal Islam

    Translation: yet more REMOANING from Faisal :lol:
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. Pong, bit hard for me to take anything Faisal Islam says seriously. The man's a lightweight. The Andy Burnham of journalism. But with less mascara.

    If you don't like the message, shoot the messenger.

    pft
    Won't forget how absurd he looked constantly referring to Gove as the "Lord High Chancellor". So petty....
  • Big_G_NorthWales
    Big_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,238
    Scott_P said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    It seems to be that the remain camp have decided that they need to re-start their fear campaign in an attempt to scare the voter into pressurising to reverse the referendum result or at the least delay and harry the legitimate move by Theresa May to just get on with it and serve A50.

    The remainers just do not understand that the people will not accept anything less than UK laws made in Parliament and judged by our own judiciary no matter the cost.

    No

    I am fully behind the Ganesh proposal.

    Hard Brexit must be tested (to destruction), but I am under no obligation to cheer it while it happens.
    Neither am I but the red lines are making our laws and exiting the ECJ so the government will not succeed if it cannot find a compromise that addresses the sovereignty issue
  • Sunil_Prasannan
    Sunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,076
    Pong said:

    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    Pong said:

    Excellent from Faisal Islam

    Translation: yet more REMOANING from Faisal :lol:
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. Pong, bit hard for me to take anything Faisal Islam says seriously. The man's a lightweight. The Andy Burnham of journalism. But with less mascara.

    If you don't like the message, shoot the messenger.

    pft
    Does that include the message the British People gave you on June 23rd?
  • Scott_P
    Scott_P Posts: 51,453
    MarqueeMark said:

    We are seeing just how much the Remainers have already been infected by the EU Disease.

    "Keep voting - until you get the right result".

    I wonder if they will ever have the honesty to admit that we are leaving - and then fully campaign to rejoin. Euro and European Army and all....

    In fact, to acknowledge the inevitable departure of the UK from the EU, I shall now stop calling them Remainers and start calling them Rejoiners.....

    Given the alacrity with which the Brexiteers have embraced the hardest possible Brexit (and claimed a mandate for it), what might have happened had the vote gone the other way and Cameron had claimed it as a mandate for full on EU integration (Schengen, Euro, Army, et al) ?
  • logical_song
    logical_song Posts: 10,082
    Ishmael_X said:

    TOPPING said:

    Dromedary said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    Here's a luvvie who REALLY hates Hillary.

    https://twitter.com/therealroseanne

    Lots of pro Israel, anti Muslim, anti immigrant/migrant stuff with a seasoning of watery Trump exoneration.

    Inneressing point she makes: google the one word "rapist" and see what you get in images, and in all results. If this is manipulation by trumpers, frightening that it is doable and extraordinary that google haven't done anything about it.
    Uh? You're not grasping what's happening. Google ARE doing something: they are filling your browser window with anti-Clinton (i.e. pro-Trump) material when you search on the word "rapist". They did the same to me, and they're probably doing the same to many people. Sounds as though they're helping Trump in quite a big way.

    Now try doing the same search using an engine run by a less underhand company, for example DuckDuckGo, who choose what results to give you without using any information about you and who, some might say, aren't as evil as Google. (Click here to do a DuckDuckGo search on "rapist".) They do serve anti-Clinton material, at items 5 and 9, and an anti-Trump piece at item 13, and then a piece at item 54 that talks of how Bill Clinton responded to an accusation that he is a rapist. But they don't fill the window with anti-Clinton material.
    Why on earth would anyone search on the word "rapist"?
    One letter less to type than Clinton?
    But one more than Trump.
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/donald-trump-ex-wife-claim-he-raped-her-resurfaces-in-new-documentary-a6836151.html
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-accused-underage-rape-lawsuit-a7352976.html
  • Morris_Dancer
    Morris_Dancer Posts: 62,742
    Mr. Pong, it's legitimate to doubt the insight of a man who considered Warsi the most important Muslim politician in the country (ahead of Vaz [then chair of the Home Select Committee], Javid or Khan) and who, I believe, was one of those wailing about the 0.1% rise in inflation, as if that were a dramatic and serious thing.

    That said, you're right to suggest that sometimes even the very wrong can come out with interesting comments (Hitchens sometimes does, even though he's barking mad most of the time).
  • david_herdson
    david_herdson Posts: 18,357
    edited October 2016
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    Scott_P said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    It seems to be that the remain camp have decided that they need to re-start their fear campaign in an attempt to scare the voter into pressurising to reverse the referendum result or at the least delay and harry the legitimate move by Theresa May to just get on with it and serve A50.

    The remainers just do not understand that the people will not accept anything less than UK laws made in Parliament and judged by our own judiciary no matter the cost.

    No

    I am fully behind the Ganesh proposal.

    Hard Brexit must be tested (to destruction), but I am under no obligation to cheer it while it happens.
    Ganesh proposal?

    Where you have your own head cut off and replaced with that from an elephant?
    Worked for Ganesha.

    Oh yes- that's what you're saying. Being slow here (and distracted).
  • Big_G_NorthWales
    Big_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,238
    Breaking on Sky - Fujitsu planning transformation programme which will result in the loss of 1,800 UK jobs
  • PlatoSaid
    PlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    MonikerDiCanio said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    619 said:

    I think Donald has to be viewed as running as a third party candidate in all but name now.

    How long before FOX stops giving him support? ( Aside from Hannitty of course)

    Remind me again how well Trump does on 'Has he the right temperament for president?'

    Glenn Beck is not a liberal lefty:

    http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/300352-glenn-beck-i-considered-voting-for-hillary

    Hillary isn't a liberal lefty. She's a bought and paid for tool of warmongers and plutocrats.
    Anyone who's paid 5 mins of attention can see she's a lobby vehicle taking off an enormous slice.

    How do you amass such massive wealth by accident ? No businesses or new average Joe jobs - just donors who happen to influence Clinton Foundation that results in ambassadorships and contracts and and and.

    It's beyond embarrassing. It's so bad, I wince reading it and hope it's a spoof.
  • david_herdson
    david_herdson Posts: 18,357
    williamglenn said:

    https://twitter.com/chrislhayes/status/785849732476329984

    No he doesn't; not while there are only two parties. in any case, Trump is symptom, not cause. If anyone has brought the GOP to a pretty pass, it's the voters, not their vehicle of choice.
  • PlatoSaid
    PlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    It seems to be that the remain camp have decided that they need to re-start their fear campaign in an attempt to scare the voter into pressurising to reverse the referendum result or at the least delay and harry the legitimate move by Theresa May to just get on with it and serve A50.

    The remainers just do not understand that the people will not accept anything less than UK laws made in Parliament and judged by our own judiciary no matter the cost.

    And it's called democracy

    Well said.
  • MarqueeMark
    MarqueeMark Posts: 55,457
    Scott_P said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    We are seeing just how much the Remainers have already been infected by the EU Disease.

    "Keep voting - until you get the right result".

    I wonder if they will ever have the honesty to admit that we are leaving - and then fully campaign to rejoin. Euro and European Army and all....

    In fact, to acknowledge the inevitable departure of the UK from the EU, I shall now stop calling them Remainers and start calling them Rejoiners.....

    Given the alacrity with which the Brexiteers have embraced the hardest possible Brexit (and claimed a mandate for it), what might have happened had the vote gone the other way and Cameron had claimed it as a mandate for full on EU integration (Schengen, Euro, Army, et al) ?
    But you weren't able to make the case, the vote didn't go the other way, so we'll never know....
  • surbiton
    surbiton Posts: 13,549
    Pong said:

    Excellent from Faisal Islam on Theresa May's problematic mandate(s);

    http://news.sky.com/story/sky-views-brexit-means-leaving-eu-everything-else-is-politics-10613139

    He is spot on. The only mandate that was given was to leave the EU - nothing else.
  • TOPPING
    TOPPING Posts: 44,060
    MaxPB said:

    surbiton said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. Meeks, I'm perplexed by your post. Do you think ridiculous transaction taxes will make the EU look more attractive to investment, versus the UK?

    It's great news. It'll help persuade firms to stay and do business in the UK.

    Hardly. They will go where the business is.
    Not if there is a FTT. Better to stay out and conduct business at arm's length via an intermediary or subsidiary.
    ??

    Not going to happen. If there is an FTT europe-wide then our PFs will be paying it.

    Unless you mean via CFDs?
  • JosiasJessop
    JosiasJessop Posts: 46,250
    PlatoSaid said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    The defence of 'He's a foreigner, he cannot hate foreigners' should be consigned to the same dustbin (some might think of it as a 'liberal dustbin') as phrases like 'only whites can be racist' or 'only men can be sexist'.

    Though I'm certain this is not the case for Hannan, it's perfectly possible to be a foreigner and hate other foreigners. As an example (of dislike, not hatred): a friend of mine is originally from an EU country, and she voted for Brexit because too many people from her birth country were entering and getting free housing ...

    I don't know what's happened to you re illness - but your post re me are really odd.

    Perhaps, better to ignore them entirely. I wish you and family well.
    Plato, it is nothing to do with my illness, and it's slightly odd that you keep on mentioning it, as if I've somehow changed. Perhaps you ought to consider if you're the one with an issue, rather than me.

    I also fail to see why you take my post above as an attack on you: it seems perfectly sensible, does it not? I would have made it (and indeed have made a similar point in the past) to other posters.

    It'll be a shame if you put me on ignore. We've got on well in the past.

    Thanks for the well wishes.
  • Scott_P
    Scott_P Posts: 51,453
    Brexit in all its Parliamentary glory...

    https://twitter.com/sebastianepayne/status/785856628197294080
  • Ishmael_X
    Ishmael_X Posts: 3,664
    logical_song said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    TOPPING said:

    Dromedary said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    Here's a luvvie who REALLY hates Hillary.

    https://twitter.com/therealroseanne

    Lots of pro Israel, anti Muslim, anti immigrant/migrant stuff with a seasoning of watery Trump exoneration.

    Inneressing point she makes: google the one word "rapist" and see what you get in images, and in all results. If this is manipulation by trumpers, frightening that it is doable and extraordinary that google haven't done anything about it.
    Uh? You're not grasping what's happening. Google ARE doing something: they are filling your browser window with anti-Clinton (i.e. pro-Trump) material when you search on the word "rapist". They did the same to me, and they're probably doing the same to many people. Sounds as though they're helping Trump in quite a big way.

    Now try doing the same search using an engine run by a less underhand company, for example DuckDuckGo, who choose what results to give you without using any information about you and who, some might say, aren't as evil as Google. (Click here to do a DuckDuckGo search on "rapist".) They do serve anti-Clinton material, at items 5 and 9, and an anti-Trump piece at item 13, and then a piece at item 54 that talks of how Bill Clinton responded to an accusation that he is a rapist. But they don't fill the window with anti-Clinton material.
    Why on earth would anyone search on the word "rapist"?
    One letter less to type than Clinton?
    But one more than Trump.
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/donald-trump-ex-wife-claim-he-raped-her-resurfaces-in-new-documentary-a6836151.html
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-accused-underage-rape-lawsuit-a7352976.html
    But the gag doesn't actually work with "one more letter", does it? There really is no need to go into instant yebuttal mode. Trump v Clinton is not a fight in which I, or I imagine you, have a dog.
  • Theuniondivvie
    Theuniondivvie Posts: 44,327
    Show respect you bloody Jocks.

    https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/785843610185003012
  • JosiasJessop
    JosiasJessop Posts: 46,250
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Breaking on Sky - Fujitsu planning transformation programme which will result in the loss of 1,800 UK jobs

    I could be wrong, but given Fujitsu's current situation, I doubt that can really be blamed on Brexit.

    Sad though.
  • TGOHF
    TGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Scott_P said:

    Brexit in all its Parliamentary glory...

    https://twitter.com/sebastianepayne/status/785856628197294080

    You have to have a pretty severe case of post Gideon butthurt to link those to Brexit.

    Oh...
  • TCPoliticalBetting
    TCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    edited October 2016
    Patrick said:

    Scott_P said:

    Patrick said:

    What about big, proud, open, expansive, trade based, internationally engaging nationalism? Your comment seems to suggest anyone who is proud of their country and wishes for it to become a better country but still a country (as opposed to an administrative region of a superstate) is somehow compromised.

    Anyone who claims the vote was not won by the message "we hate foreigners" is an idiot.

    Like Dan Hannan.
    ........All my relatives who voted remain did so despite their intrinsic dislike and distrust of the EU because they were persuaded by Project Fear. All have since told me they'd vote leave if it was rerun today......
    This is the ticking timebomb under all the Remain pushing politicians. An electoral backlash awaits them, be it in the selection committees of the Conservative party or the voters at the next GE. The Remainers outside the Conservative party are not chasing 48% of the GE voters to share between Labour/LDs/Greens, but are really chasing <20% of the GE voters between them, if Brexit becomes a key voting matter at the next GE.
  • malcolmg
    malcolmg Posts: 44,523
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. Meeks, better to light a candle than curse the darkness.

    A royal yacht would be an excellent venue for trade deal negotiations.

    What country would it be built in.
  • Sunil_Prasannan
    Sunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,076
    Theuniondivvie said:

    Show respect you bloody Jocks.

    https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/785843610185003012

    Britannia is a female persona, no?
  • TCPoliticalBetting
    TCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    malcolmg said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. Meeks, better to light a candle than curse the darkness.

    A royal yacht would be an excellent venue for trade deal negotiations.

    What country would it be built in.
    Scotland, if the natives are still in the UK.
  • Scott_P
    Scott_P Posts: 51,453
    TGOHF said:

    link those to Brexit.

    Oh...

    The one on the left is literally a debate about Brexit

    Oh...
  • PlatoSaid
    PlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Dromedary said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Uh oh, brace yourselves the shackles are coming off, up to now we've had the shy and restrained Donald

    ttps://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/785842546878578688

    ROFL! He's going to be his real self now. P-word! N-word! (Or is it "I''ll sue you to hell if you show the tapes"? Something, anyway! Make his day, all you punks!) Poison gas for a 10-mile strip on the Mexican side of the border! It was the liberals who made his "ban all Muslims" policy "morph" into tough vetting. Well now it's "morphed" again, and even Muslim diplomats won't be allowed in.

    But wait: he finds it "hard to do well", because of Republican treachery!

    ttps://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/785816454042124288

    The poor baby!
    That post may make you feel warm and fuzzy - the gap between your voting intention and his supporters is a thousand miles.

    When looking at elections in other countries - a basic appreciation of the mood is pertinent.
  • MonikerDiCanio
    MonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    Theuniondivvie said:

    Show respect you bloody Jocks.

    https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/785843610185003012

    Gray's Scottish unlike Brock. What's your point ?
  • Big_G_NorthWales
    Big_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,238
    Boris just called from the dispatch box for demonstrations outside the Russian Embassy and just as only Boris could, asked where the 'Stop the War' coalition are when you need them
  • TonyE
    TonyE Posts: 938
    JosiasJessop said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Breaking on Sky - Fujitsu planning transformation programme which will result in the loss of 1,800 UK jobs

    I could be wrong, but given Fujitsu's current situation, I doubt that can really be blamed on Brexit.

    Sad though.
    They have lost sight of their market place. Part of this was blamed on the very native focus of their management structure, with only one of the their main 40 mangers coming from outside Japan.
  • Big_G_NorthWales
    Big_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,238
    malcolmg said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. Meeks, better to light a candle than curse the darkness.

    A royal yacht would be an excellent venue for trade deal negotiations.

    What country would it be built in.
    Scotland of course
  • TGOHF
    TGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Scott_P said:

    TGOHF said:

    link those to Brexit.

    Oh...

    The one on the left is literally a debate about Brexit

    Oh...
    Are royal yachts banned for EU members ?


  • PlatoSaid
    PlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    JosiasJessop said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    The defence of 'He's a foreigner, he cannot hate foreigners' should be consigned to the same dustbin (some might think of it as a 'liberal dustbin') as phrases like 'only whites can be racist' or 'only men can be sexist'.

    Though I'm certain this is not the case for Hannan, it's perfectly possible to be a foreigner and hate other foreigners. As an example (of dislike, not hatred): a friend of mine is originally from an EU country, and she voted for Brexit because too many people from her birth country were entering and getting free housing ...

    I don't know what's happened to you re illness - but your post re me are really odd.

    Perhaps, better to ignore them entirely. I wish you and family well.
    Plato, it is nothing to do with my illness, and it's slightly odd that you keep on mentioning it, as if I've somehow changed. Perhaps you ought to consider if you're the one with an issue, rather than me.

    I also fail to see why you take my post above as an attack on you: it seems perfectly sensible, does it not? I would have made it (and indeed have made a similar point in the past) to other posters.

    It'll be a shame if you put me on ignore. We've got on well in the past.

    Thanks for the well wishes.
    You were a congenial chap - and then became rather passive aggressive - you started before 0630 today as an example.

    It's something you've done for weeks and didn't before - hence I presume it's you're illness. Either way - just ignore my posts - rubbishing me before 0630 looks odd for merely expressing my opinion.
  • williamglenn
    williamglenn Posts: 56,289
    TGOHF said:

    Scott_P said:

    TGOHF said:

    link those to Brexit.

    Oh...

    The one on the left is literally a debate about Brexit

    Oh...
    Are royal yachts banned for EU members ?
    Surely there's some decree banning vessels designed for the solicitation of trade agreements?
  • HurstLlama
    HurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    Show respect you bloody Jocks.

    https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/785843610185003012

    Britannia is a female persona, no?
    Avast, Cap'n Doc! You of all people should know that all ships are female (because, possibly, they are beautiful, capricious, and steal men's souls) and so are referred to as "she". Except, I am told in Russia, where they are held to be masculine, which raises some interesting questions.

    Belike, else.
  • JosiasJessop
    JosiasJessop Posts: 46,250
    PlatoSaid said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    The defence of 'He's a foreigner, he cannot hate foreigners' should be consigned to the same dustbin (some might think of it as a 'liberal dustbin') as phrases like 'only whites can be racist' or 'only men can be sexist'.

    Though I'm certain this is not the case for Hannan, it's perfectly possible to be a foreigner and hate other foreigners. As an example (of dislike, not hatred): a friend of mine is originally from an EU country, and she voted for Brexit because too many people from her birth country were entering and getting free housing ...

    I don't know what's happened to you re illness - but your post re me are really odd.

    Perhaps, better to ignore them entirely. I wish you and family well.
    Plato, it is nothing to do with my illness, and it's slightly odd that you keep on mentioning it, as if I've somehow changed. Perhaps you ought to consider if you're the one with an issue, rather than me.

    I also fail to see why you take my post above as an attack on you: it seems perfectly sensible, does it not? I would have made it (and indeed have made a similar point in the past) to other posters.

    It'll be a shame if you put me on ignore. We've got on well in the past.

    Thanks for the well wishes.
    You were a congenial chap - and then became rather passive aggressive - you started before 0630 today as an example.

    It's something you've done for weeks and didn't before - hence I presume it's you're illness. Either way - just ignore my posts - rubbishing me before 0630 looks odd for merely expressing my opinion.
    Again, you mention my illness!

    I suggest you look at yourself, rather than looking for flaws in others. Perhaps we should take this to PM?

    As for before 06.30: I'm a morning person, and I had the morning shift when the little 'un awoke early. And I was quite happy. :)
  • PlatoSaid
    PlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Dromedary said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    Here's a luvvie who REALLY hates Hillary.

    https://twitter.com/therealroseanne

    Lots of pro Israel, anti Muslim, anti immigrant/migrant stuff with a seasoning of watery Trump exoneration.

    Inneressing point she makes: google the one word "rapist" and see what you get in images, and in all results. If this is manipulation by trumpers, frightening that it is doable and extraordinary that google haven't done anything about it.
    Uh? You're not grasping what's happening. Google ARE doing something: they are filling your browser window with anti-Clinton (i.e. pro-Trump) material when you search on the word "rapist". They did the same to me, and they're probably doing the same to many people. Sounds as though they're helping Trump in quite a big way.

    Now try doing the same search using an engine run by a less underhand company, for example DuckDuckGo, who choose what results to give you without using any information about you and who, some might say, aren't as evil as Google. (Click here to do a DuckDuckGo search on "rapist".) They do serve anti-Clinton material, at items 5 and 9, but they serve an anti-Trump piece at item 13, before a later piece at item 54 that talks of how Bill Clinton responded to an accusation that he is a rapist. But they don't fill the window with anti-Clinton material.
    LOL

    Google are anti-Clinton? Seriously?

    Next you'll be saying Twitter aren't removing popular RNC based trends. I've seen dozens of 'inconvient' GOP memes deleted. It's risible and obvious censorship.
  • SouthamObserver
    SouthamObserver Posts: 40,054
    PlatoSaid said:

    Dromedary said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Uh oh, brace yourselves the shackles are coming off, up to now we've had the shy and restrained Donald

    ttps://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/785842546878578688

    ROFL! He's going to be his real self now. P-word! N-word! (Or is it "I''ll sue you to hell if you show the tapes"? Something, anyway! Make his day, all you punks!) Poison gas for a 10-mile strip on the Mexican side of the border! It was the liberals who made his "ban all Muslims" policy "morph" into tough vetting. Well now it's "morphed" again, and even Muslim diplomats won't be allowed in.

    But wait: he finds it "hard to do well", because of Republican treachery!

    ttps://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/785816454042124288

    The poor baby!
    That post may make you feel warm and fuzzy - the gap between your voting intention and his supporters is a thousand miles.

    When looking at elections in other countries - a basic appreciation of the mood is pertinent.

    Have you been across to the US recently?

  • Jobabob
    Jobabob Posts: 3,807
    The lizards are coming.

    In fact they are already here.

    Live and kicking on PB from 0500 till 2100 every damned day.
  • TGOHF
    TGOHF Posts: 21,633
    williamglenn said:

    TGOHF said:

    Scott_P said:

    TGOHF said:

    link those to Brexit.

    Oh...

    The one on the left is literally a debate about Brexit

    Oh...
    Are royal yachts banned for EU members ?
    Surely there's some decree banning vessels designed for the solicitation of trade agreements?
    No doubt ripping up the decree would be a sign of medium-rare Brexit. With fries.
  • Sunil_Prasannan
    Sunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,076
    HurstLlama said:

    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    Show respect you bloody Jocks.

    https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/785843610185003012

    Britannia is a female persona, no?
    Avast, Cap'n Doc! You of all people should know that all ships are female (because, possibly, they are beautiful, capricious, and steal men's souls) and so are referred to as "she". Except, I am told in Russia, where they are held to be masculine, which raises some interesting questions.

    Belike, else.
    Ahoy, Mr Llama! I do know that! But I do find it odd that ships named after men should be "female". Surely Hood, Prince of Wales, Duke of York, Nelson and Rodney should be referred to as "he"!
  • TGOHF
    TGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Jobabob said:

    The lizards are coming.

    In fact they are already here.

    Live and kicking on PB from 0500 till 2100 every damned day.

    Sign of Brexit that is...
  • Theuniondivvie
    Theuniondivvie Posts: 44,327
    MonikerDiCanio said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    Show respect you bloody Jocks.

    https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/785843610185003012

    Gray's Scottish unlike Brock. What's your point ?
    Ah, the perennial Brityoon obsession with 'indigenousness', fittingly displayed in defence of their obsequious observation of precedent.

    I'm interested to see that you believe you have to be born in a country before you can be described as of that country. Blood & soil, eh?
  • PlatoSaid
    PlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    MarqueeMark said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Scott_P said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Hannan hates foreigners? What idiotic tosh.

    Nobody said Hannan hates foreigners.

    The campaign was won by the message "We hate resent foreigners"

    Dan, and the others Brexit cheerleaders who deny that fact, are idiots.
    Your heroic retweeting of Ian Dunt and Rupert Myers has convinced me. Oh and Hugo Rifkind.

    Seriously. It's not convincing anyone like me. And I suspect 98% of others either way. The vote happened and Remain LOST.
    We are seeing just how much the Remainers have already been infected by the EU Disease.

    "Keep voting - until you get the right result".

    I wonder if they will ever have the honesty to admit that we are leaving - and then fully campaign to rejoin. Euro and European Army and all....

    In fact, to acknowledge the inevitable departure of the UK from the EU, I shall now stop calling them Remainers and start calling them Rejoiners.....

    That's a good term. I'm bored beyond tears of the crying - what argument are they making now?
  • Pong
    Pong Posts: 4,693
    edited October 2016
    Nate Silver
    @NateSilver538

    THE PARTY DECIDES: Republicans won't pick Trump because no party could fuck up a nomination that badly. REPUBLICANS: Oh yeah? Just watch us.

    --

    I recon the influence of that book was crucial in explaining the GOP candidates' inability to stop trump.
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