politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Corbyn has overwhelming victory over TMay at PMQs
Comments
-
Yeah sure. UKIP was 95% Nige. Lets see what form it's in after the leadership election.taffys said:''Even if you're right it does suggest that May is sowing the seeds of a Lib Dem revival''
No May is sowing the seeds of a UKIP revival. She is UKIP's dream candidate.0 -
I wonder what the prosection or sentence would have been had their cause been one less fashionable with the establishment like fathers4justice or the EDL?FrancisUrquhart said:
CPS only prosecuted them for simple trespass, which they all pled guilty to. So the simple answer is no, and the court basically gave them the punish for the crime they admitted.Sandpit said:
You what?PlatoSaid said:FFS
Court News
Black Lives Matter protesters are all given conditional discharges
Please please can the CPS appeal that? If every stupid idiot now thinks that shutting down a major airport for a day warrants only a slap on the wrist, this is going to happen every day somewhere.
I hope the operator and their customer sue them in the civil courts for the cost of the disruption, will be millions!0 -
Wow! I have been in the States for over 25 years, and have collected differences in the two languages as I've gone along. I had no idea that in the US frown meant a sad face instead of a furrowed brow.AndyJS said:O/T:
There seems to be some confusion as to whether the word "frown" relates to the forehead or the mouth:
http://separatedbyacommonlanguage.blogspot.co.uk/2016/09/frowns.html
My favorite difference is the way US airlines use 'momentarily'.0 -
Quite - but there is a concerted campaign from trendy lefties andPeterC said:
Yes. Any new Grammar would be a new build. I think the proposal is in reality a modest one which has been blown up out of proportion by its opponents. We may see an addition 50 - 100 Grammars, not a wholesale reversal of the 1960s/70s policy.IanB2 said:
I think your post illustrates another risk that May is taking: that her initiative will be over-sold or will raise expectations that won't be met. All she plans to do is relax the current restriction on opening new grammar schools. It will then be up to your local council (or anyone who want to open their own free grammar school). Most won't be interested; many won't need a new secondary school anyway. No-one has suggested turning existing schools into grammars so in reality, even if passed, her proposal will actually change very little.Stark_Dawning said:I wonder how they will decide which school in each town becomes a grammar and which will be turned into secondary moderns? Presumably some sort of drawing lots will take place. Will the thick kids currently attending the winner be allowed to stay, or will they be shunted out?
Compared to the hyperbole in the thread header I'd say you got it about right there.CD13 said:On topic, I think Jezza and Theresa are both poor at PMQs. They are not natural speakers but are poor for different reasons. They both need a script to mangle, but Corbyn should have the edge because he asks the questions.
May rushes her words because she's nervous. Corbyn tries to imply he's cleverer than he is; he should stick to 'cat sat on mat' questions. May should sit back and not try so hard. She doesn't answer the question (no PM does) but she makes it obvious she isn't going to. They both try to force the conclusions rather than let the words speak for themselves.0 -
According to wiktionaryMTimT said:
Wow! I have been in the States for over 25 years, and have collected differences in the two languages as I've gone along. I had no idea that in the US frown meant a sad face instead of a furrowed brow.AndyJS said:O/T:
There seems to be some confusion as to whether the word "frown" relates to the forehead or the mouth:
http://separatedbyacommonlanguage.blogspot.co.uk/2016/09/frowns.html
My favorite difference is the way US airlines use 'momentarily'.
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/frown
Noun[edit]
frown (plural frowns)
1.A facial expression in which the eyebrows are brought together, and the forehead is wrinkled, usually indicating displeasure, sadness or worry, or less often confusion or concentration.
2.A facial expression in which the corners of the mouth are pointed down.
0 -
I just love the ballot paper. It always makes me chortle.SimonStClare said:@Plato - Sebb Blatter? That was below the belt
0 -
According to Twitter land, the Matthew Ryder appointed by Sadiq Khan as integration chap, formerly worked for Cage (unsure if that's directly or in contracted work).
Reassuring.0 -
With such a commanding lead anyway, there are fewer independents and Democrats that might switch as they are more likely to be hidebound or strong allegiance.PlatoSaid said:PPP
#SouthCarolina, Trafalgar Group (R):
Trump 53 (+15)
Clinton 38
Johnson 3
Stein 1
https://t.co/gn6ax90Eqj
FYI Romney won SC by 11%
The bigger swings will occur in the marginal. In the Clinton (and Trump) safe seats there will be a lot of 'I am a Californian. California votes Democrat so I will vote Democrat' - a stereotype threat/ herding or whatever you want to call it.0 -
Grammar schools have bullies too. In my experience they have worse bullies. Mine had a hard core of kids from non-aspirant working class backgrounds that had passed the 11+, which is essentially an IQ test. They resented being sent to "the posh school" as it alienated them from their friends that didn't get in. They made the lives of those who wanted to learn a misery, especially those, like me, who were also working class: we were seen as "traitors". It wasn't until sixth form, where the ones that didn't care about education had been able to leave, that bullying stopped in my school. I wonder what it's like these days now you have to stay in education or training until 18.Paul_Bedfordshire said:
1 dosent work without 2 as the bully or troublemaker can still intimidate them or attack them in the corridor or playground or PE etc.taffys said:There are surely better ways of making life better for capable poor kids than grammars.
1. compulsory streaming
2. Stronger protection of those who want to learn from those who don;t. Abolishing this nonsense about the bully or trouble maker as victim.
2 is, without a cultural shift of earthquake proportions in the establishment, is -alas - impossible to achieve utopian idealism.
Grammar schools can be imposed over the head of the establishment and represent the art of the possible.0 -
Pleaded guilty!FrancisUrquhart said:
CPS only had them prosecuted for simple trespass, which they all pled guilty to. .Sandpit said:
You what?PlatoSaid said:FFS
Court News
Black Lives Matter protesters are all given conditional discharges
Please please can the CPS appeal that? If every stupid idiot now thinks that shutting down a major airport for a day warrants only a slap on the wrist, this is going to happen every day somewhere.
I hope the operator and their customer sue them in the civil courts for the cost of the disruption, will be millions!0 -
It is pretty brutal.PlatoSaid said:
I normally ignore him entirely - I was tweeted it by Entertainment Weekly who thought it was a big thing. That's stuck it on the radar of a whole bunch of non-Dems.MTimT said:PlatoSaid said:
I thought the Colbert lampooning was a turning point in attitudes - I was really surprised by it.Pulpstar said:
It's tough to disguise poor health, ok Trump is older - but he has undenibly got alot more energy.Richard_Nabavi said:
Yes, that is one of the extraordinary aspects of what has been as extraordinary contest all along. The expectation was that, by now, the super well-organised, well-financed, very professional and experienced Clinton campaign would be pulling smoothly ahead, and that the amateurish and naive Trump campaign would be falling apart. Seems to be the other way round.taffys said:
From the outside it looks like the dem campaign is spiralling out of control...??PlatoSaid said:Lee Fang
Colin Powell & mega Dem donor Jeffrey Leeds chat about how much the Clintons hate Obama (via newly leaked emails) https://t.co/6dEbD4AU3r
Also the Dem campaign has gone up its own fundament with some sort of cartoon frog anti-racist campaign that only Sanders supporters between 18 and 35 are going to remotely have a chance of understanding.
Plato, thanks for pointing that out. I have pretty much stopped watching Colbert as his political wit is usually so one-sided. That he should have turned so brutally and effectively on Hillary this weekend is indeed quite something.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GDM772Ro-80 -
Q:We have a good school with high demand but we are waiting for the good school to expandGideonWise said:
We have a good school with high demand but we are waiting for the good school to expand. Do children just sit on a waiting list for a few years?TCPoliticalBetting said:
Just let good schools expand and send the weaker schools to the wall. It is called the market.William_H said:
Regularly rotating catchment areas seems like it could be a good way to encourage social cohesion and avoid sink estates.MTimT said:
People in the DC area buy houses by school ....me houses are bought up, torn down and rebuilt if they lie in the catchment area of a 'good' school.GideonWise said:
Not contrived - it is a well established fact.logical_song said:
Assuming that Labour are in favour of Comprehensive schools, how does this 'selection by house price' work?AndyJS said:I just think it's very odd how the left seems to prefer selection by house price rather than by ability. It's the precise opposite of what you'd expect them to believe.
The only example I can think of is the case where there are two comprehensive schools in the same town, the better one makes the houses in its catchment area worth more. If that's your argument it seems a little contrived.
PS The only way grammar schools can fix this problem is if they don't have a fixed catchment area or, if they do, that catchment area covers all the school districts of a particular administrative area, say a town. But their benefits to bright poor kids will always come at the price of stripping both the good and the bad schools of some of their brightest students.
The bad schools. What happens to the kids in them when they go to the wall?
An additional question. What happens if a good school got really big - because it did well in the past - then went bad because of a new head. Does it just go to the wall with the 1000s of pupils inside?
A: Expansion can be very quick for some good (top 10) comps that I know. Temp classrooms go up quickly and it is usually done by adding a circa 30 unit which gradually expands over the following 5 years.
Q: The bad schools. What happens to the kids in them when they go to the wall?
A: The aim is to reduce the incidence. Better to save 1,000 and accept that 100 may not get saved this time round rather than doing nothing.
Q: What happens if a good school got really big - because it did well in the past - then went bad because of a new head.
A: Does not happen that quickly. A school getting 80% passing the 5 GCSE target (etc) does not suddenly drop to 60% or less. Declines are more gradual and governors/parents soon intervene.0 -
What's wrong with "pled"?Sunil_Prasannan said:
Pleaded guilty!FrancisUrquhart said:
CPS only had them prosecuted for simple trespass, which they all pled guilty to. .Sandpit said:
You what?PlatoSaid said:FFS
Court News
Black Lives Matter protesters are all given conditional discharges
Please please can the CPS appeal that? If every stupid idiot now thinks that shutting down a major airport for a day warrants only a slap on the wrist, this is going to happen every day somewhere.
I hope the operator and their customer sue them in the civil courts for the cost of the disruption, will be millions!0 -
I'll focus on Labour winning when Labour has a leader that gives the party a chance of winning. I am afraid that normal voters just do not elect parties led by supporters of the IRA and other terrorist groups.bigjohnowls said:
When will you focus on Labour winning.SouthamObserver said:
My guess is that grammars and other hat tips to the right will focus a lot of Labour minds. And more and more Labour members will become more focused on winning the election. That will not be good news for Corbyn. The Tories are one of his Achilles heels.Stark_Dawning said:I agree with many of posters on this thread - the return to educational selection is a potential elephant trap for the Tories and a massive uniting force for Labour. May needs to ensure that the first round of selection occurs after the next election. When the majority of parents see their children shunted off to secondary modern schools, it's going to cause vast resentment that will fester for years. Corbyn could ride the wave of that resentment straight into Downing Street.
Oh I forgot Dave is least bad option compared to Jezza
0 -
More on the defendants
Court News
'Black Lives Matter' protesters include Deborah Francis-Grayson, 31, Richard Collet-White, 23, and Sam Lund-Harket, 32.
Double barrels all round!0 -
Sounds very AmericanAndyJS said:
What's wrong with "pled"?Sunil_Prasannan said:
Pleaded guilty!FrancisUrquhart said:
CPS only had them prosecuted for simple trespass, which they all pled guilty to. .Sandpit said:
You what?PlatoSaid said:FFS
Court News
Black Lives Matter protesters are all given conditional discharges
Please please can the CPS appeal that? If every stupid idiot now thinks that shutting down a major airport for a day warrants only a slap on the wrist, this is going to happen every day somewhere.
I hope the operator and their customer sue them in the civil courts for the cost of the disruption, will be millions!
0 -
DBLM!PlatoSaid said:More on the defendants
Court News
'Black Lives Matter' protesters include Deborah Francis-Grayson, 31, Richard Collet-White, 23, and Sam Lund-Harket, 32.
Double barrels all round!0 -
http://graphics.latimes.com/usc-presidential-poll-dashboard/
A couple of very interesting demographic trends in the latest LA times poll. The most critical is that there is evidence that Trump's pitch to black voters is working, followed by a big swing of high earners behind Trump.0 -
I rather like 'pled'.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Pleaded guilty!FrancisUrquhart said:
CPS only had them prosecuted for simple trespass, which they all pled guilty to. .Sandpit said:
You what?PlatoSaid said:FFS
Court News
Black Lives Matter protesters are all given conditional discharges
Please please can the CPS appeal that? If every stupid idiot now thinks that shutting down a major airport for a day warrants only a slap on the wrist, this is going to happen every day somewhere.
I hope the operator and their customer sue them in the civil courts for the cost of the disruption, will be millions!0 -
My wife went to the high school and then did well in her GCSEs and went to the grammar for her A-levels. Perhaps a system which allows transfers could help.NickPalmer said:
I think it's absolutely natural that you want your kids to go to the best available school. But there will be areas where the alternatives are pretty bad, and most kids will end up there.Lucian_Fletcher said:I'm very much undecided on grammar schools. I went to a comprehensive and did absolutely fine but I'm also very keen for my kids to go to the local Royal School. But I also think the local non-grammar schools are decent.
I can see a case in principle for saying that brilliant kids should go to brilliant schools and dim or lazy kids should go to undemanding schools (though you can argue the opposite - I had a very undemanding school and got a PhD anyway, maybe dim kids need more help not less?). But anyway, in real life kids are better on some days than others and develop at different speeds. To determine a life-changing issue based on what your kids are like on a particular day when they're 11 is surely silly? If they go to the same school and get set into mostly lower groups then if they put on a spurt they can easily move up (and vice versa). Separating them into different institutions altogether seems far too rigid.
I'm certainly not going to die in a ditch to defend grammar schools. Tory/Unionist though I am.0 -
In the past having a double barrelled surname was a sign of good breeding.RobD said:
You couldn't make it up!PlatoSaid said:More on the defendants
Court News
'Black Lives Matter' protesters include Deborah Francis-Grayson, 31, Richard Collet-White, 23, and Sam Lund-Harket, 32.
Double barrels all round!
These days it means your Mum's a slapper.
Jimmy Carr.0 -
If we don't like the answer can we ask again 'till we get the right answer ?FrancisUrquhart said:
BurrrnnnnnnnnnnnnnnPlatoSaid said:Oh my
Junker's asked for Q&A suggestions on Twitter...
Edit
The Fox
#AskJuncker is Poland going to be the first place you'll invade with your new EU army?0 -
Mr. Eagles, surely that means it's still a sign of breeding?0
-
So you are a Labour member but would not want Labour to win in 2020 if it has its current leader.SouthamObserver said:
I'll focus on Labour winning when Labour has a leader that gives the party a chance of winning. I am afraid that normal voters just do not elect parties led by supporters of the IRA and other terrorist groups.bigjohnowls said:
When will you focus on Labour winning.SouthamObserver said:
My guess is that grammars and other hat tips to the right will focus a lot of Labour minds. And more and more Labour members will become more focused on winning the election. That will not be good news for Corbyn. The Tories are one of his Achilles heels.Stark_Dawning said:I agree with many of posters on this thread - the return to educational selection is a potential elephant trap for the Tories and a massive uniting force for Labour. May needs to ensure that the first round of selection occurs after the next election. When the majority of parents see their children shunted off to secondary modern schools, it's going to cause vast resentment that will fester for years. Corbyn could ride the wave of that resentment straight into Downing Street.
Oh I forgot Dave is least bad option compared to Jezza
Who would you vote for?
Compliance Unit might be interested.0 -
:-)Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Eagles, surely that means it's still a sign of breeding?
0 -
Should have charged them with endangering aircraft, can get life for that!FrancisUrquhart said:
CPS only had them prosecuted for simple trespass, which they all pled guilty to. So the simple answer is no, and the court basically gave them the punish for the crime they admitted.Sandpit said:
You what?PlatoSaid said:FFS
Court News
Black Lives Matter protesters are all given conditional discharges
Please please can the CPS appeal that? If every stupid idiot now thinks that shutting down a major airport for a day warrants only a slap on the wrist, this is going to happen every day somewhere.
I hope the operator and their customer sue them in the civil courts for the cost of the disruption, will be millions!
I seriously expected them to get a year or so, not a slap on the wrist.0 -
williamglenn said:
http://graphics.latimes.com/usc-presidential-poll-dashboard/
A couple of very interesting demographic trends in the latest LA times poll. The most critical is that there is evidence that Trump's pitch to black voters is working, followed by a big swing of high earners behind Trump.
We need JackW to unskew these polls, the trend is clear tho.williamglenn said:http://graphics.latimes.com/usc-presidential-poll-dashboard/
A couple of very interesting demographic trends in the latest LA times poll. The most critical is that there is evidence that Trump's pitch to black voters is working, followed by a big swing of high earners behind Trump.
Hillary seems to be more unpopular with white voters than Obama, who knew?0 -
My kids failed 11+ and went to non-selective schools. At 16 they just about scraped GCSE results enough to transfer to grammar schools for A levels.
The level of funding (often from past pupils), quality of teachers, behaviour of pupils, depth of teaching was incomparable.
Not passing the 11+ is seen as a failure. Not just by pupils but by parents ("I'm so sorry to hear that Jonnie didn't get in..."
We had some many sleepless nights over whether we should have appealed the 11+ results, used tutors for the test or even (although I don't know how we would have afforded it) used private schools.
The grammar sixth form got our kids A level results, and therefore into Unis that they otherwise would not have done had they stayed where they were.
Had they had access to that quality of teaching from the age of 11 they would have done even better.
Selecting kids for a better education based on one test at age 10/11 is wrong.
The grammar system in my county is broken.
We need a system that enables a pupil to be in different ability sets for different subjects.
Our kids had friends at primary schools who just passed the 11+. There was nothing really between them and our kids, yet they were the kids who got bucketfuls of A grades at GCSE and A level, and then places at top Universities
If you want to judge the success of grammar schools you don't do it my visiting them and comparing their results to comprehensive areas. You do it by visiting in the non-selective schools down the road from the grammar schools and seeing what it is like there.
Perhaps by shining a light on the grammar system the PM will actually achieve the opposite and we might see the existing ones disappear
0 -
They seem to go for short words e.g. he 'dove' into a pond - One I don't like that you find up north in the UK - "He tret her well".Cookie said:
I rather like 'pled'.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Pleaded guilty!FrancisUrquhart said:
CPS only had them prosecuted for simple trespass, which they all pled guilty to. .Sandpit said:
You what?PlatoSaid said:FFS
Court News
Black Lives Matter protesters are all given conditional discharges
Please please can the CPS appeal that? If every stupid idiot now thinks that shutting down a major airport for a day warrants only a slap on the wrist, this is going to happen every day somewhere.
I hope the operator and their customer sue them in the civil courts for the cost of the disruption, will be millions!
Also - they seem to have lost the word 'ensure' - it seems to be being replaced by 'insure'. I am unsure about that but I can assure you it is probably true.
I think they should of taught their kids better.0 -
Oh, she's going to keep us in the EU then?taffys said:''Even if you're right it does suggest that May is sowing the seeds of a Lib Dem revival''
No May is sowing the seeds of a UKIP revival. She is UKIP's dream candidate.0 -
There seems to be at the moment (i.e. before pneumoniagate filters through) a closing of about 3% between Clinton/ Trump compared to Obama/Romney.nunu said:williamglenn said:http://graphics.latimes.com/usc-presidential-poll-dashboard/
A couple of very interesting demographic trends in the latest LA times poll. The most critical is that there is evidence that Trump's pitch to black voters is working, followed by a big swing of high earners behind Trump.
We need JackW to unskew these polls, the trend is clear tho.williamglenn said:http://graphics.latimes.com/usc-presidential-poll-dashboard/
A couple of very interesting demographic trends in the latest LA times poll. The most critical is that there is evidence that Trump's pitch to black voters is working, followed by a big swing of high earners behind Trump.
Hillary seems to be more unpopular with white voters than Obama, who knew?0 -
There is no simple panacea as a fair system. Attempts to to it often end up making things worse than before. Soviet Russis and Grammar Schools being two examples.GideonWise said:
Yes it is complicated to organise a fair system because people find ways to game it quite quickly - because they are clever or they have the means to do so.MTimT said:
People in the DC area buy houses by school catchment area. It is one of the first things informed buyers ask - even DINKs, and it is printed on most sales collateral. The same house on the same sized lot one street over can be worth $100k less if it is on the wrong side of the catchment area.GideonWise said:
Not contrived - it is a well established fact.logical_song said:
Assuming that Labour are in favour of Comprehensive schools, how does this 'selection by house price' work?AndyJS said:I just think it's very odd how the left seems to prefer selection by house price rather than by ability. It's the precise opposite of what you'd expect them to believe.
The only example I can think of is the case where there are two comprehensive schools in the same town, the better one makes the houses in its catchment area worth more. If that's your argument it seems a little contrived.
And changing the catchment area to include low income housing only fixes the problem temporarily until the housing market adapts, and those low income houses are bought up, torn down and rebuilt if they lie in the catchment area of a 'good' school.
PS The only way grammar schools can fix this problem is if they don't have a fixed catchment area or, if they do, that catchment area covers all the school districts of a particular administrative area, say a town. But their benefits to bright poor kids will always come at the price of stripping both the good and the bad schools of some of their brightest students.
There is no simple panacea such as 'voucher system'. Two minutes of thinking would highlight the pitfalls of any one approach.0 -
The party will not win in 2020 if Corbyn is leader, it is as simple as that. Sorry.bigjohnowls said:
So you are a Labour member but would not want Labour to win in 2020 if it has its current leader.SouthamObserver said:
I'll focus on Labour winning when Labour has a leader that gives the party a chance of winning. I am afraid that normal voters just do not elect parties led by supporters of the IRA and other terrorist groups.bigjohnowls said:
When will you focus on Labour winning.SouthamObserver said:
My guess is that grammars and other hat tips to the right will focus a lot of Labour minds. And more and more Labour members will become more focused on winning the election. That will not be good news for Corbyn. The Tories are one of his Achilles heels.Stark_Dawning said:I agree with many of posters on this thread - the return to educational selection is a potential elephant trap for the Tories and a massive uniting force for Labour. May needs to ensure that the first round of selection occurs after the next election. When the majority of parents see their children shunted off to secondary modern schools, it's going to cause vast resentment that will fester for years. Corbyn could ride the wave of that resentment straight into Downing Street.
Oh I forgot Dave is least bad option compared to Jezza
Who would you vote for?
Compliance Unit might be interested.
If Corbyn is leader in 2020 (though I am pretty sure he won't be) I will stay at home on general election day.
0 -
Best get used to it Direct Action is coming to a street near you soonSandpit said:
Should have charged them with endangering aircraft, can get life for that!FrancisUrquhart said:
CPS only had them prosecuted for simple trespass, which they all pled guilty to. So the simple answer is no, and the court basically gave them the punish for the crime they admitted.Sandpit said:
You what?PlatoSaid said:FFS
Court News
Black Lives Matter protesters are all given conditional discharges
Please please can the CPS appeal that? If every stupid idiot now thinks that shutting down a major airport for a day warrants only a slap on the wrist, this is going to happen every day somewhere.
I hope the operator and their customer sue them in the civil courts for the cost of the disruption, will be millions!
I seriously expected them to get a year or so, not a slap on the wrist.0 -
SkyNews
Catch @JeremyCorbyn and @OwenSmith_MP in the final #LabourHustings on Sky News tonight at 9pm #BattlefForLabour https://t.co/W9k1IJr0nZ0 -
Why is everyone assuming that grammars means an 11+ which 75% fail and the rest go to secondary moderns.
* May has said selection wont just be 11+
* No reason why 11+ couldnt be geared to pass 80% with just the real strugglers sent to a school that focuses on them.
* The intake dosent have to be 100%selective.
* Places like Trafford also have good non grammar schools not secondary moderns.
A lot of straw men appear to be being erected round here.0 -
Direct Action is what people do when they know they can't win elections.bigjohnowls said:
Best get used to it Direct Action is coming to a street near you soonSandpit said:
Should have charged them with endangering aircraft, can get life for that!FrancisUrquhart said:
CPS only had them prosecuted for simple trespass, which they all pled guilty to. So the simple answer is no, and the court basically gave them the punish for the crime they admitted.Sandpit said:
You what?PlatoSaid said:FFS
Court News
Black Lives Matter protesters are all given conditional discharges
Please please can the CPS appeal that? If every stupid idiot now thinks that shutting down a major airport for a day warrants only a slap on the wrist, this is going to happen every day somewhere.
I hope the operator and their customer sue them in the civil courts for the cost of the disruption, will be millions!
I seriously expected them to get a year or so, not a slap on the wrist.0 -
Why is everyone assuming that grammars means an 11+ which 75% fail and the rest go to secondary moderns.
* May has said selection wont just be 11+
* No reason why 11+ couldnt be geared to pass 80% with just the real strugglers sent to a school that focuses on them.
* The intake dosent have to be 100%selective.
* Places like Trafford also have good non grammar schools not secondary moderns.
A lot of straw men appear to be being erected round here.0 -
It's hard to compare the Oabama/Romney polls to Trump/Clinton due to the radically different National Convention dates. Over a month later skews everything.weejonnie said:
There seems to be at the moment (i.e. before pneumoniagate filters through) a closing of about 3% between Clinton/ Trump compared to Obama/Romney.nunu said:williamglenn said:http://graphics.latimes.com/usc-presidential-poll-dashboard/
A couple of very interesting demographic trends in the latest LA times poll. The most critical is that there is evidence that Trump's pitch to black voters is working, followed by a big swing of high earners behind Trump.
We need JackW to unskew these polls, the trend is clear tho.williamglenn said:http://graphics.latimes.com/usc-presidential-poll-dashboard/
A couple of very interesting demographic trends in the latest LA times poll. The most critical is that there is evidence that Trump's pitch to black voters is working, followed by a big swing of high earners behind Trump.
Hillary seems to be more unpopular with white voters than Obama, who knew?0 -
We had a bunch of kids from other schools transfer to Ilford County for A-levels. Those of us who attended from age 11 rather disparagingly referred to the newcomers as "immigrants"Lucian_Fletcher said:
My wife went to the high school and then did well in her GCSEs and went to the grammar for her A-levels. Perhaps a system which allows transfers could help.NickPalmer said:
I think it's absolutely natural that you want your kids to go to the best available school. But there will be areas where the alternatives are pretty bad, and most kids will end up there.Lucian_Fletcher said:I'm very much undecided on grammar schools. I went to a comprehensive and did absolutely fine but I'm also very keen for my kids to go to the local Royal School. But I also think the local non-grammar schools are decent.
I can see a case in principle for saying that brilliant kids should go to brilliant schools and dim or lazy kids should go to undemanding schools (though you can argue the opposite - I had a very undemanding school and got a PhD anyway, maybe dim kids need more help not less?). But anyway, in real life kids are better on some days than others and develop at different speeds. To determine a life-changing issue based on what your kids are like on a particular day when they're 11 is surely silly? If they go to the same school and get set into mostly lower groups then if they put on a spurt they can easily move up (and vice versa). Separating them into different institutions altogether seems far too rigid.
I'm certainly not going to die in a ditch to defend grammar schools. Tory/Unionist though I am.
But they saw the funny side of it 0 -
PBstayathomer!!SouthamObserver said:
The party will not win in 2020 if Corbyn is leader, it is as simple as that. Sorry.bigjohnowls said:
So you are a Labour member but would not want Labour to win in 2020 if it has its current leader.SouthamObserver said:
I'll focus on Labour winning when Labour has a leader that gives the party a chance of winning. I am afraid that normal voters just do not elect parties led by supporters of the IRA and other terrorist groups.bigjohnowls said:
When will you focus on Labour winning.SouthamObserver said:
My guess is that grammars and other hat tips to the right will focus a lot of Labour minds. And more and more Labour members will become more focused on winning the election. That will not be good news for Corbyn. The Tories are one of his Achilles heels.Stark_Dawning said:I agree with many of posters on this thread - the return to educational selection is a potential elephant trap for the Tories and a massive uniting force for Labour. May needs to ensure that the first round of selection occurs after the next election. When the majority of parents see their children shunted off to secondary modern schools, it's going to cause vast resentment that will fester for years. Corbyn could ride the wave of that resentment straight into Downing Street.
Oh I forgot Dave is least bad option compared to Jezza
Who would you vote for?
Compliance Unit might be interested.
If Corbyn is leader in 2020 (though I am pretty sure he won't be) I will stay at home on general election day.0 -
Oh please God no. Enough.PlatoSaid said:SkyNews
Catch @JeremyCorbyn and @OwenSmith_MP in the final #LabourHustings on Sky News tonight at 9pm #BattlefForLabour https://t.co/W9k1IJr0nZ0 -
Maxes idea would be a disaster for anyone without ready access to a car or with several siblings, especially in rural areas where public transport is virtually non existent.rcs1000 said:
In the UK, we have a major problem. We have approximately two million unemployed people, and a large number of people classified as sick. We have employers who would rather hire Poles and Latvians and Romanians than our own people.Paul_Bedfordshire said:
1 dosent work without 2 as the bully or troublemaker can still intimidate them or attack them in the corridor or playground or PE etc.taffys said:There are surely better ways of making life better for capable poor kids than grammars.
1. compulsory streaming
2. Stronger protection of those who want to learn from those who don;t. Abolishing this nonsense about the bully or trouble maker as victim.
2 is, without a cultural shift of earthquake proportions in the establishment, is -alas - impossible to achieve utopian idealism.
Grammar schools can be imposed over the head of the establishment and represent the art of the possible.
Now, some of this is due to the tax and benefits system. But a lot of it is due to our education system failing a lot of our children. And in particular, it's failing the bottom 75% of academic achievers.
Simply bolting grammar schools onto our system will not make it better. Max had some excellent suggestions, which I hope someone in a position of power has read and is currently considerin. But our urgent priority as a nation must be stop creating an underclass of people who are largely unemployable.
The only beneficiaries would be bus and taxi companies and fanatical climate sceptics who could rejoice about all the extra journeys and co2 emissions
If a grammar school took the top 80% the school the other 20% went to could focus properly on their needs.0 -
Sometimes very effective I believeAndyJS said:
Direct Action is what people do when they know they can't win elections.bigjohnowls said:
Best get used to it Direct Action is coming to a street near you soonSandpit said:
Should have charged them with endangering aircraft, can get life for that!FrancisUrquhart said:
CPS only had them prosecuted for simple trespass, which they all pled guilty to. So the simple answer is no, and the court basically gave them the punish for the crime they admitted.Sandpit said:
You what?PlatoSaid said:FFS
Court News
Black Lives Matter protesters are all given conditional discharges
Please please can the CPS appeal that? If every stupid idiot now thinks that shutting down a major airport for a day warrants only a slap on the wrist, this is going to happen every day somewhere.
I hope the operator and their customer sue them in the civil courts for the cost of the disruption, will be millions!
I seriously expected them to get a year or so, not a slap on the wrist.0 -
The only explanation is that white Americans are even more sexist than they are racist ... [imagined liberal interpretation]nunu said:williamglenn said:http://graphics.latimes.com/usc-presidential-poll-dashboard/
A couple of very interesting demographic trends in the latest LA times poll. The most critical is that there is evidence that Trump's pitch to black voters is working, followed by a big swing of high earners behind Trump.
We need JackW to unskew these polls, the trend is clear tho.williamglenn said:http://graphics.latimes.com/usc-presidential-poll-dashboard/
A couple of very interesting demographic trends in the latest LA times poll. The most critical is that there is evidence that Trump's pitch to black voters is working, followed by a big swing of high earners behind Trump.
Hillary seems to be more unpopular with white voters than Obama, who knew?
PS Basket of deplorables.0 -
I think this is the final "debate" before the election.John_M said:
Oh please God no. Enough.PlatoSaid said:SkyNews
Catch @JeremyCorbyn and @OwenSmith_MP in the final #LabourHustings on Sky News tonight at 9pm #BattlefForLabour https://t.co/W9k1IJr0nZ0 -
Does a Trump presidency NOT EXCITE YOUAlistair said:
It's hard to compare the Oabama/Romney polls to Trump/Clinton due to the radically different National Convention dates. Over a month later skews everything.weejonnie said:
There seems to be at the moment (i.e. before pneumoniagate filters through) a closing of about 3% between Clinton/ Trump compared to Obama/Romney.nunu said:williamglenn said:http://graphics.latimes.com/usc-presidential-poll-dashboard/
A couple of very interesting demographic trends in the latest LA times poll. The most critical is that there is evidence that Trump's pitch to black voters is working, followed by a big swing of high earners behind Trump.
We need JackW to unskew these polls, the trend is clear tho.williamglenn said:http://graphics.latimes.com/usc-presidential-poll-dashboard/
A couple of very interesting demographic trends in the latest LA times poll. The most critical is that there is evidence that Trump's pitch to black voters is working, followed by a big swing of high earners behind Trump.
Hillary seems to be more unpopular with white voters than Obama, who knew? ? 0 -
Pupils at the non-selective schools in selective Trafford have historically done rather better than the bottom 80% of pupils at socio-economically similar but non-selective Stockport. My view is that both the existence of grammar schools in Trafford and the better results are both symptoms of an education authority with a culture which places a higher value on educational attainment than does Stockport (there are, of course, other priorities which education authorities could reasonably have).Spiderman said:My kids failed 11+ and went to non-selective schools. At 16 they just about scraped GCSE results enough to transfer to grammar schools for A levels.
The level of funding (often from past pupils), quality of teachers, behaviour of pupils, depth of teaching was incomparable.
Not passing the 11+ is seen as a failure. Not just by pupils but by parents ("I'm so sorry to hear that Jonnie didn't get in..."
We had some many sleepless nights over whether we should have appealed the 11+ results, used tutors for the test or even (although I don't know how we would have afforded it) used private schools.
The grammar sixth form got our kids A level results, and therefore into Unis that they otherwise would not have done had they stayed where they were.
Had they had access to that quality of teaching from the age of 11 they would have done even better.
Selecting kids for a better education based on one test at age 10/11 is wrong.
The grammar system in my county is broken.
We need a system that enables a pupil to be in different ability sets for different subjects.
Our kids had friends at primary schools who just passed the 11+. There was nothing really between them and our kids, yet they were the kids who got bucketfuls of A grades at GCSE and A level, and then places at top Universities
If you want to judge the success of grammar schools you don't do it my visiting them and comparing their results to comprehensive areas. You do it by visiting in the non-selective schools down the road from the grammar schools and seeing what it is like there.
Perhaps by shining a light on the grammar system the PM will actually achieve the opposite and we might see the existing ones disappear
Happily, both authorities currently appear to be improving their results, albeit by differing approaches.0 -
Or when there aren't elections to vote in.AndyJS said:
Direct Action is what people do when they know they can't win elections.bigjohnowls said:
Best get used to it Direct Action is coming to a street near you soonSandpit said:
Should have charged them with endangering aircraft, can get life for that!FrancisUrquhart said:
CPS only had them prosecuted for simple trespass, which they all pled guilty to. So the simple answer is no, and the court basically gave them the punish for the crime they admitted.Sandpit said:
You what?PlatoSaid said:FFS
Court News
Black Lives Matter protesters are all given conditional discharges
Please please can the CPS appeal that? If every stupid idiot now thinks that shutting down a major airport for a day warrants only a slap on the wrist, this is going to happen every day somewhere.
I hope the operator and their customer sue them in the civil courts for the cost of the disruption, will be millions!
I seriously expected them to get a year or so, not a slap on the wrist.
0 -
Nah! It was Stockholm Syndrome.Sunil_Prasannan said:
We had a bunch of kids from other schools transfer to Ilford County for A-levels. Those of us who attended from age 11 rather disparagingly referred to the newcomers as "immigrants"Lucian_Fletcher said:
My wife went to the high school and then did well in her GCSEs and went to the grammar for her A-levels. Perhaps a system which allows transfers could help.NickPalmer said:
I think it's absolutely natural that you want your kids to go to the best available school. But there will be areas where the alternatives are pretty bad, and most kids will end up there.Lucian_Fletcher said:I'm very much undecided on grammar schools. I went to a comprehensive and did absolutely fine but I'm also very keen for my kids to go to the local Royal School. But I also think the local non-grammar schools are decent.
I can see a case in principle for saying that brilliant kids should go to brilliant schools and dim or lazy kids should go to undemanding schools (though you can argue the opposite - I had a very undemanding school and got a PhD anyway, maybe dim kids need more help not less?). But anyway, in real life kids are better on some days than others and develop at different speeds. To determine a life-changing issue based on what your kids are like on a particular day when they're 11 is surely silly? If they go to the same school and get set into mostly lower groups then if they put on a spurt they can easily move up (and vice versa). Separating them into different institutions altogether seems far too rigid.
I'm certainly not going to die in a ditch to defend grammar schools. Tory/Unionist though I am.
But they saw the funny side of it0 -
Is that a newly discovered dinosaur?bigjohnowls said:
PBstayathomer!!SouthamObserver said:
The party will not win in 2020 if Corbyn is leader, it is as simple as that. Sorry.bigjohnowls said:
So you are a Labour member but would not want Labour to win in 2020 if it has its current leader.SouthamObserver said:
I'll focus on Labour winning when Labour has a leader that gives the party a chance of winning. I am afraid that normal voters just do not elect parties led by supporters of the IRA and other terrorist groups.bigjohnowls said:
When will you focus on Labour winning.SouthamObserver said:
My guess is that grammars and other hat tips to the right will focus a lot of Labour minds. And more and more Labour members will become more focused on winning the election. That will not be good news for Corbyn. The Tories are one of his Achilles heels.Stark_Dawning said:I agree with many of posters on this thread - the return to educational selection is a potential elephant trap for the Tories and a massive uniting force for Labour. May needs to ensure that the first round of selection occurs after the next election. When the majority of parents see their children shunted off to secondary modern schools, it's going to cause vast resentment that will fester for years. Corbyn could ride the wave of that resentment straight into Downing Street.
Oh I forgot Dave is least bad option compared to Jezza
Who would you vote for?
Compliance Unit might be interested.
If Corbyn is leader in 2020 (though I am pretty sure he won't be) I will stay at home on general election day.0 -
Lincolnshire also has excellent non Grammar schools alongside the Grammars. Nottinghamshire has no Grammar schools and absolutely atrocious secondary education.Paul_Bedfordshire said:Why is everyone assuming that grammars means an 11+ which 75% fail and the rest go to secondary moderns.
* May has said selection wont just be 11+
* No reason why 11+ couldnt be geared to pass 80% with just the real strugglers sent to a school that focuses on them.
* The intake dosent have to be 100%selective.
* Places like Trafford also have good non grammar schools not secondary moderns.
A lot of straw men appear to be being erected round here.
This informs nothing except the fact that nothing is straightforward.0 -
It certainly will if the authorities don't take it seriously. They shut an international airport for most of the day yet walked away without punishment.bigjohnowls said:
Best get used to it Direct Action is coming to a street near you soonSandpit said:
Should have charged them with endangering aircraft, can get life for that!FrancisUrquhart said:
CPS only had them prosecuted for simple trespass, which they all pled guilty to. So the simple answer is no, and the court basically gave them the punish for the crime they admitted.Sandpit said:
You what?PlatoSaid said:FFS
Court News
Black Lives Matter protesters are all given conditional discharges
Please please can the CPS appeal that? If every stupid idiot now thinks that shutting down a major airport for a day warrants only a slap on the wrist, this is going to happen every day somewhere.
I hope the operator and their customer sue them in the civil courts for the cost of the disruption, will be millions!
I seriously expected them to get a year or so, not a slap on the wrist.0 -
Or when there aren't elections to vote in.
https://www.rt.com/uk/316039-british-army-coup-corbyn/
Perhaps this would be "the least bad option."0 -
DohPaul_Bedfordshire said:
There is no simple panacea as a fair system. Attempts to to it often end up making things worse than before. Soviet Russis and Grammar Comprehensive Schools being two examples.GideonWise said:
Yes it is complicated to organise a fair system because people find ways to game it quite quickly - because they are clever or they have the means to do so.MTimT said:
People in the DC area buy houses by school catchment area. It is one of the first things informed buyers ask - even DINKs, and it is printed on most sales collateral. The same house on the same sized lot one street over can be worth $100k less if it is on the wrong side of the catchment area.GideonWise said:
Not contrived - it is a well established fact.logical_song said:
Assuming that Labour are in favour of Comprehensive schools, how does this 'selection by house price' work?AndyJS said:I just think it's very odd how the left seems to prefer selection by house price rather than by ability. It's the precise opposite of what you'd expect them to believe.
The only example I can think of is the case where there are two comprehensive schools in the same town, the better one makes the houses in its catchment area worth more. If that's your argument it seems a little contrived.
And changing the catchment area to include low income housing only fixes the problem temporarily until the housing market adapts, and those low income houses are bought up, torn down and rebuilt if they lie in the catchment area of a 'good' school.
PS The only way grammar schools can fix this problem is if they don't have a fixed catchment area or, if they do, that catchment area covers all the school districts of a particular administrative area, say a town. But their benefits to bright poor kids will always come at the price of stripping both the good and the bad schools of some of their brightest students.
There is no simple panacea such as 'voucher system'. Two minutes of thinking would highlight the pitfalls of any one approach.0 -
Actually the worst part of attending Ilford County was the uniform - we had this horrible mauvy-red blazer!
https://alan001946.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/uniformichs.jpg0 -
Genius move by Mrs. May.....
Anyway.... laters, W-E-M-B-E-R-L-E-E........
Are you going SO?0 -
The bump in his Black vote starts on the 11th so it's entirely related to Hilary's health, before then his Black vote was trending downwards.williamglenn said:http://graphics.latimes.com/usc-presidential-poll-dashboard/
A couple of very interesting demographic trends in the latest LA times poll. The most critical is that there is evidence that Trump's pitch to black voters is working, followed by a big swing of high earners behind Trump.0 -
Aww you look Cute!!Sunil_Prasannan said:Actually the worst part of attending Ilford County was the uniform - we had this horrible mauvy-red blazer!
https://alan001946.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/uniformichs.jpg0 -
Expensive divorce for Germany as UK Brexits
http://m.spiegel.de/international/europe/a-1111724.html#spRedirectedFrom=www&referrrer=
Commissioned by the European Commission and the General Secretariat of the European Council, the first calculations on how expensive Brexit might be for the 27 remaining member states have now been completed. According to one paper, net revenues that flow into the EU from Britain each year range from 14 to 21 billion euros. If you subtract the money Britain gets back from Brussels, the EU budget would shrink by up to 10 billion euros per year.0 -
I see the EU is planning on going ahead with its 'link tax' and the plan to make it a breach of copyright to link to copywritten material.
https://openmedia.org/en/press/eu-commission-formally-proposes-link-tax-european-parliament-part-new-copyright-directive
Under the new law the link I have just provided above would be subject to a fee if any of the material on it is subject to copy write. And if the site I linked to contained copywritten material which had not paid the copywrite fee then my linking to it would itself be a breach of copywrite for which I could be sued.
Can a site like PB continue to have any links down the side if it is liable if any of those sites put up copywritten material?0 -
They'll certainly get Direct Action round here...It hurts..bigjohnowls said:
Best get used to it Direct Action is coming to a street near you soonSandpit said:
Should have charged them with endangering aircraft, can get life for that!FrancisUrquhart said:
CPS only had them prosecuted for simple trespass, which they all pled guilty to. So the simple answer is no, and the court basically gave them the punish for the crime they admitted.Sandpit said:
You what?PlatoSaid said:FFS
Court News
Black Lives Matter protesters are all given conditional discharges
Please please can the CPS appeal that? If every stupid idiot now thinks that shutting down a major airport for a day warrants only a slap on the wrist, this is going to happen every day somewhere.
I hope the operator and their customer sue them in the civil courts for the cost of the disruption, will be millions!
I seriously expected them to get a year or so, not a slap on the wrist.0 -
That isn't me, BTW!bigjohnowls said:
Aww you look Cute!!Sunil_Prasannan said:Actually the worst part of attending Ilford County was the uniform - we had this horrible mauvy-red blazer!
https://alan001946.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/uniformichs.jpg
Though for Sixth Form/A-levels, we were allowed to wear Navy or Black for some reason.0 -
Mr. Tyndall, so... if that goes ahead would all PB's old threads have to be deleted, because the process of hand-checking 12 years of threads is simply impossible? Will I have to delete my blog just in case there's a link that falls foul?0
-
Didn't some from "Plane Stupid" at Heathrow get a meaningful punishment?Sandpit said:
It certainly will if the authorities don't take it seriously. They shut an international airport for most of the day yet walked away without punishment.bigjohnowls said:
Best get used to it Direct Action is coming to a street near you soonSandpit said:
Should have charged them with endangering aircraft, can get life for that!FrancisUrquhart said:
CPS only had them prosecuted for simple trespass, which they all pled guilty to. So the simple answer is no, and the court basically gave them the punish for the crime they admitted.Sandpit said:
You what?PlatoSaid said:FFS
Court News
Black Lives Matter protesters are all given conditional discharges
Please please can the CPS appeal that? If every stupid idiot now thinks that shutting down a major airport for a day warrants only a slap on the wrist, this is going to happen every day somewhere.
I hope the operator and their customer sue them in the civil courts for the cost of the disruption, will be millions!
I seriously expected them to get a year or so, not a slap on the wrist.
-1 -
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-33991056perdix said:
Didn't some from "Plane Stupid" at Heathrow get a meaningful punishment?Sandpit said:
It certainly will if the authorities don't take it seriously. They shut an international airport for most of the day yet walked away without punishment.bigjohnowls said:
Best get used to it Direct Action is coming to a street near you soonSandpit said:
Should have charged them with endangering aircraft, can get life for that!FrancisUrquhart said:
CPS only had them prosecuted for simple trespass, which they all pled guilty to. So the simple answer is no, and the court basically gave them the punish for the crime they admitted.Sandpit said:
You what?PlatoSaid said:FFS
Court News
Black Lives Matter protesters are all given conditional discharges
Please please can the CPS appeal that? If every stupid idiot now thinks that shutting down a major airport for a day warrants only a slap on the wrist, this is going to happen every day somewhere.
I hope the operator and their customer sue them in the civil courts for the cost of the disruption, will be millions!
I seriously expected them to get a year or so, not a slap on the wrist.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-360824290 -
Richard_Tyndall said:
I see the EU is planning on going ahead with its 'link tax' and the plan to make it a breach of copyright to link to copywritten material.
https://openmedia.org/en/press/eu-commission-formally-proposes-link-tax-european-parliament-part-new-copyright-directive
Under the new law the link I have just provided above would be subject to a fee if any of the material on it is subject to copy write. And if the site I linked to contained copywritten material which had not paid the copywrite fee then my linking to it would itself be a breach of copywrite for which I could be sued.
Can a site like PB continue to have any links down the side if it is liable if any of those sites put up copywritten material?
The World Wide Web. Created by Sir Tim Berners-Lee. Destroyed by the EU.
0 -
It is well worth reading the Openmedia stuff. Obviously they have a slant but the ECJ ruling seems pretty straightforward. Linking to a site that contains unpermitted copywritten material puts the site linking to it in breach as well. Given that checking every site one links to on a continuous basis would be impossible I find it hard to see how one could continue to link. In addition the link tax making it illegal to link to a news site using their 'headline' without paying a fee is just ludicrous.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Tyndall, so... if that goes ahead would all PB's old threads have to be deleted, because the process of hand-checking 12 years of threads is simply impossible? Will I have to delete my blog just in case there's a link that falls foul?
0 -
Love Europe. F the EU!MarkHopkins said:Richard_Tyndall said:I see the EU is planning on going ahead with its 'link tax' and the plan to make it a breach of copyright to link to copywritten material.
https://openmedia.org/en/press/eu-commission-formally-proposes-link-tax-european-parliament-part-new-copyright-directive
Under the new law the link I have just provided above would be subject to a fee if any of the material on it is subject to copy write. And if the site I linked to contained copywritten material which had not paid the copywrite fee then my linking to it would itself be a breach of copywrite for which I could be sued.
Can a site like PB continue to have any links down the side if it is liable if any of those sites put up copywritten material?
The World Wide Web. Created by Sir Tim Berners-Lee. Destroyed by the EU.0 -
The trouble is they are following the US and Canada who are also seeing these sorts of court cases arise. This is becoming a world wide problem.MarkHopkins said:Richard_Tyndall said:I see the EU is planning on going ahead with its 'link tax' and the plan to make it a breach of copyright to link to copywritten material.
https://openmedia.org/en/press/eu-commission-formally-proposes-link-tax-european-parliament-part-new-copyright-directive
Under the new law the link I have just provided above would be subject to a fee if any of the material on it is subject to copy write. And if the site I linked to contained copywritten material which had not paid the copywrite fee then my linking to it would itself be a breach of copywrite for which I could be sued.
Can a site like PB continue to have any links down the side if it is liable if any of those sites put up copywritten material?
The World Wide Web. Created by Sir Tim Berners-Lee. Destroyed by the EU.0 -
Lower middle class lives matterSunil_Prasannan said:
Love Europe. F the EU!MarkHopkins said:Richard_Tyndall said:I see the EU is planning on going ahead with its 'link tax' and the plan to make it a breach of copyright to link to copywritten material.
https://openmedia.org/en/press/eu-commission-formally-proposes-link-tax-european-parliament-part-new-copyright-directive
Under the new law the link I have just provided above would be subject to a fee if any of the material on it is subject to copy write. And if the site I linked to contained copywritten material which had not paid the copywrite fee then my linking to it would itself be a breach of copywrite for which I could be sued.
Can a site like PB continue to have any links down the side if it is liable if any of those sites put up copywritten material?
The World Wide Web. Created by Sir Tim Berners-Lee. Destroyed by the EU. 0 -
Interesting to see that Bloomsbury, Covent Garden and Holborn are proposed to be added to the Cities of London and Westminster constituency:
https://insidecroydon.files.wordpress.com/2016/09/london-initial-proposals-report.pdf0 -
Mr. Tyndall, that's crazy.0
-
I have checked to make sure the ruling is not being exaggerated but some of the effects include:Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Tyndall, that's crazy.
The CJEU states that: “when hyperlinks are posted for profit, it may be expected that the person who posted such a link should carry out the checks necessary to ensure that the work concerned is not illegally published.” This places an unduly heavy burden on small businesses and bloggers who may not have the resources or the expertise to check the legality of every link they share.
Hobby bloggers who earn even a modest income from their work, such as by having ads on their blog, will now be legally responsible for ascertaining the copyright status of every item of external content they link to (photos on Flickr, music on Vimeo, etc.)
Small businesses which use Facebook for promotion will now need to check the copyright status of everything they share.
Who will be responsible for going back and checking all historical links to ensure none of them host copyright infringing content? This is clearly a legal and logistical nightmare scenario.
0 -
It's a completely bonkers ruling, they don't understand how the internet works.Richard_Tyndall said:I see the EU is planning on going ahead with its 'link tax' and the plan to make it a breach of copyright to link to copywritten material.
https://openmedia.org/en/press/eu-commission-formally-proposes-link-tax-european-parliament-part-new-copyright-directive
Under the new law the link I have just provided above would be subject to a fee if any of the material on it is subject to copy write. And if the site I linked to contained copywritten material which had not paid the copywrite fee then my linking to it would itself be a breach of copywrite for which I could be sued.
Can a site like PB continue to have any links down the side if it is liable if any of those sites put up copywritten material?
It would cover linking to twitter and YouTube, where the image or video wasn't uploaded by the original copyright holder. It would certainly cover links to Google pages designed to bybass paywalls on certain media. It would even allow me to sue PB if someone else posted a link to my blog, because I want my blog to be private - even though it's on the bloody internet and not private at all!!0 -
A new type of morbid fascination?Pulpstar said:
Does a Trump presidency NOT EXCITE YOUAlistair said:
It's hard to compare the Oabama/Romney polls to Trump/Clinton due to the radically different National Convention dates. Over a month later skews everything.weejonnie said:
There seems to be at the moment (i.e. before pneumoniagate filters through) a closing of about 3% between Clinton/ Trump compared to Obama/Romney.nunu said:williamglenn said:http://graphics.latimes.com/usc-presidential-poll-dashboard/
A couple of very interesting demographic trends in the latest LA times poll. The most critical is that there is evidence that Trump's pitch to black voters is working, followed by a big swing of high earners behind Trump.
We need JackW to unskew these polls, the trend is clear tho.williamglenn said:http://graphics.latimes.com/usc-presidential-poll-dashboard/
A couple of very interesting demographic trends in the latest LA times poll. The most critical is that there is evidence that Trump's pitch to black voters is working, followed by a big swing of high earners behind Trump.
Hillary seems to be more unpopular with white voters than Obama, who knew? ?
I just want to see the American Media go into meltdown on Election Night. Schadenfreude.0 -
Mr. Tyndall, it's ****ing insane.
It's astounding that the EU, even they, could come up with something so bloody demented.
How far along is this nonsense? Might it yet be derailed?0 -
Mr. Sandpit, and what about how things change?
My blog, thaddeusthesixth.blogspot.co.uk, has no ads on it. I link it here sometimes.
Suppose someone links to it. Then a year later I put ads on, find that link, and demand payment.
It's an epic level of stupid.0 -
Can't seem to find them but this was the gist.Gardenwalker said:Max, can you repost your suggestion or perhaps link to it? I missed it when first posted. Thank you!
4-8 - primary school, learn the basics. Everyone leaves with the ability to read and write and do maths, plus understanding the environment around them.
9-13 - middle school, start off with mixed classes, this replaces secondary school. By the end of the 5 years the classes will be streamed. Basically about finding out what kids are good at, whether they are hands on, academic or just useless. 6 classes, streamed by ability.
14-18 - finishing school, top two classes from middle school go to "grammar" school to do A-Levels. The others go to apprentice school to, unsurprisingly given the name, an apprenticeship. They can range from trades such as carpentry and plumbing to accountancy and finance. By the end of the first year of apprentice school students and teachers pick what their apprenticeship will be.0 -
Morris_Dancer said:
Mr. Sandpit, and what about how things change?
My blog, thaddeusthesixth.blogspot.co.uk, has no ads on it. I link it here sometimes.
Suppose someone links to it. Then a year later I put ads on, find that link, and demand payment.
It's an epic level of stupid.
Or it's deliberate. A way of closing down pesky bloggers.
0 -
-
Good job we are leaving the EU and none of that shit will apply to us. That said, two thoughts:Richard_Tyndall said:
I have checked to make sure the ruling is not being exaggerated but some of the effects include:Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Tyndall, that's crazy.
The CJEU states that: “when hyperlinks are posted for profit, it may be expected that the person who posted such a link should carry out the checks necessary to ensure that the work concerned is not illegally published.” This places an unduly heavy burden on small businesses and bloggers who may not have the resources or the expertise to check the legality of every link they share.
Hobby bloggers who earn even a modest income from their work, such as by having ads on their blog, will now be legally responsible for ascertaining the copyright status of every item of external content they link to (photos on Flickr, music on Vimeo, etc.)
Small businesses which use Facebook for promotion will now need to check the copyright status of everything they share.
Who will be responsible for going back and checking all historical links to ensure none of them host copyright infringing content? This is clearly a legal and logistical nightmare scenario.
1. Will the big boys really want to discourage links? Links drive traffic to their sites, do they want to stop that?
2. How the feck does the Eu think this can be enforced? Register your site off-shore and their silly rules are irrelevant.0 -
Guardianista central, should be competitive between Tory and Labour.AndyJS said:Interesting to see that Bloomsbury, Covent Garden and Holborn are proposed to be added to the Cities of London and Westminster constituency:
https://insidecroydon.files.wordpress.com/2016/09/london-initial-proposals-report.pdf0 -
1) Remember Germany and Spain brought in a stupid law in regards to google showing the first few lines of a media articles, because they said they were basically nicking the content and should pay. Google stopped adding those to their news feeds in those countries and the page views for those media organisations went through the floor.HurstLlama said:
Good job we are leaving the EU and none of that shit will apply to us. That said, two thoughts:Richard_Tyndall said:
I have checked to make sure the ruling is not being exaggerated but some of the effects include:Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Tyndall, that's crazy.
The CJEU states that: “when hyperlinks are posted for profit, it may be expected that the person who posted such a link should carry out the checks necessary to ensure that the work concerned is not illegally published.” This places an unduly heavy burden on small businesses and bloggers who may not have the resources or the expertise to check the legality of every link they share.
Hobby bloggers who earn even a modest income from their work, such as by having ads on their blog, will now be legally responsible for ascertaining the copyright status of every item of external content they link to (photos on Flickr, music on Vimeo, etc.)
Small businesses which use Facebook for promotion will now need to check the copyright status of everything they share.
Who will be responsible for going back and checking all historical links to ensure none of them host copyright infringing content? This is clearly a legal and logistical nightmare scenario.
1. Will the big boys really want to discourage links? Links drive traffic to their sites, do they want to stop that?
2. How the feck does the Eu think this can be enforced? Register your site off-shore and their silly rules are irrelevant.
2) That's what the EU army is for ;-) But yes politicians don't get this interwebs thing, where you can locate your site anywhere in the world.
We talked about the EU VAT for digital products before and basically if you didn't give a s##t about the law you just set your company up somewhere outside of the EU and carry on selling. You are suppose to collect the VAT and pass it on, but they have no real way of checking or enforcing it for non-EU countries if you are so small that you aren't a multi-national with physical presence in the EU.
One of my businesses was affected by this and I full comply with the law, but some competitors not located in the EU didn't, and carried on selling digital products without any consideration of EU VAT rules.0 -
Can I recommend everyone reads the Wikipedia page on the state of law, copyright and linking:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_aspects_of_hyperlinking_and_framing0 -
The ECJ ruling is already settled last week. They went against the advice of the Advocate General and ruled in favour of the plaintif.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Tyndall, it's ****ing insane.
It's astounding that the EU, even they, could come up with something so bloody demented.
How far along is this nonsense? Might it yet be derailed?0 -
Mr. Llama, might still apply to us, depends if it's done by country of link or country of linked material.0
-
Unfortunately not. Like the google privacy ruling it will apply to any site that can be viewed inside the EU. Offshoring won't work.HurstLlama said:
Good job we are leaving the EU and none of that shit will apply to us. That said, two thoughts:Richard_Tyndall said:
I have checked to make sure the ruling is not being exaggerated but some of the effects include:Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Tyndall, that's crazy.
The CJEU states that: “when hyperlinks are posted for profit, it may be expected that the person who posted such a link should carry out the checks necessary to ensure that the work concerned is not illegally published.” This places an unduly heavy burden on small businesses and bloggers who may not have the resources or the expertise to check the legality of every link they share.
Hobby bloggers who earn even a modest income from their work, such as by having ads on their blog, will now be legally responsible for ascertaining the copyright status of every item of external content they link to (photos on Flickr, music on Vimeo, etc.)
Small businesses which use Facebook for promotion will now need to check the copyright status of everything they share.
Who will be responsible for going back and checking all historical links to ensure none of them host copyright infringing content? This is clearly a legal and logistical nightmare scenario.
1. Will the big boys really want to discourage links? Links drive traffic to their sites, do they want to stop that?
2. How the feck does the Eu think this can be enforced? Register your site off-shore and their silly rules are irrelevant.0 -
That link confirms the ruling last week. The problem is you can see that the plantif had a reasonable case. But the way the ECJ ruling has been phrased means that it now applies to all cases not just blatant attempts to avoid copyright.rcs1000 said:Can I recommend everyone reads the Wikipedia page on the state of law, copyright and linking:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_aspects_of_hyperlinking_and_framing0 -
Thanks again.MaxPB said:
Can't seem to find them but this was the gist.Gardenwalker said:Max, can you repost your suggestion or perhaps link to it? I missed it when first posted. Thank you!
4-8 - primary school, learn the basics. Everyone leaves with the ability to read and write and do maths, plus understanding the environment around them.
9-13 - middle school, start off with mixed classes, this replaces secondary school. By the end of the 5 years the classes will be streamed. Basically about finding out what kids are good at, whether they are hands on, academic or just useless. 6 classes, streamed by ability.
14-18 - finishing school, top two classes from middle school go to "grammar" school to do A-Levels. The others go to apprentice school to, unsurprisingly given the name, an apprenticeship. They can range from trades such as carpentry and plumbing to accountancy and finance. By the end of the first year of apprentice school students and teachers pick what their apprenticeship will be.
Middle school streaming based in a full assessment of talent and tendency would be superb.
My challenge is still around this divide between academic grammars and apprenticeships.
That still means to me a class or caste system around an implicit assumption that academic = grammar = top 15%.
I want to see a real plurality of schools, any of which can lead to a diversity of tertiary education and career.
Creative, sporting, technical, computing, and liberal arts, and any other dimension you can think of.
A very stark divide between "grammar" and rest, even with the proper funding and focus on rest, exacerbates the class divide which remains one of this country's biggest problems.
0 -
Really? The USA is going to be covered by this? I mean US citizens are going to governed by an EU court judgment? I don't think so.Richard_Tyndall said:
Unfortunately not. Like the google privacy ruling it will apply to any site that can be viewed inside the EU. Offshoring won't work.HurstLlama said:
Good job we are leaving the EU and none of that shit will apply to us. That said, two thoughts:Richard_Tyndall said:
I have checked to make sure the ruling is not being exaggerated but some of the effects include:Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Tyndall, that's crazy.
The CJEU states that: “when hyperlinks are posted for profit, it may be expected that the person who posted such a link should carry out the checks necessary to ensure that the work concerned is not illegally published.” This places an unduly heavy burden on small businesses and bloggers who may not have the resources or the expertise to check the legality of every link they share.
Hobby bloggers who earn even a modest income from their work, such as by having ads on their blog, will now be legally responsible for ascertaining the copyright status of every item of external content they link to (photos on Flickr, music on Vimeo, etc.)
Small businesses which use Facebook for promotion will now need to check the copyright status of everything they share.
Who will be responsible for going back and checking all historical links to ensure none of them host copyright infringing content? This is clearly a legal and logistical nightmare scenario.
1. Will the big boys really want to discourage links? Links drive traffic to their sites, do they want to stop that?
2. How the feck does the Eu think this can be enforced? Register your site off-shore and their silly rules are irrelevant.0 -
Hahaha! For all the bedwetters and hand wringers bemoaning May's lack of negotiating position on Brexit, this from the article made me LOL:PlatoSaid said:Expensive divorce for Germany as UK Brexits
http://m.spiegel.de/international/europe/a-1111724.html#spRedirectedFrom=www&referrrer=
Commissioned by the European Commission and the General Secretariat of the European Council, the first calculations on how expensive Brexit might be for the 27 remaining member states have now been completed. According to one paper, net revenues that flow into the EU from Britain each year range from 14 to 21 billion euros. If you subtract the money Britain gets back from Brussels, the EU budget would shrink by up to 10 billion euros per year.
""I consider it to be very possible that the Brits will know exactly what they want at the start of negotiations, but that Europe still won't be able to speak with a single voice," European Parliament President Martin Schulz recently warned"0 -
"When arrested by police, Francis-Grayson asked " is it 'cos i's black?"AndyJS said:
Probably members of Islington North Labour Party.PlatoSaid said:More on the defendants
Court News
'Black Lives Matter' protesters include Deborah Francis-Grayson, 31, Richard Collet-White, 23, and Sam Lund-Harket, 32.
Double barrels all round!0 -
Yes, the original idea was a bit more fleshed out and takes into account all those aspects.Gardenwalker said:
Thanks again.MaxPB said:
Can't seem to find them but this was the gist.Gardenwalker said:Max, can you repost your suggestion or perhaps link to it? I missed it when first posted. Thank you!
4-8 - primary school, learn the basics. Everyone leaves with the ability to read and write and do maths, plus understanding the environment around them.
9-13 - middle school, start off with mixed classes, this replaces secondary school. By the end of the 5 years the classes will be streamed. Basically about finding out what kids are good at, whether they are hands on, academic or just useless. 6 classes, streamed by ability.
14-18 - finishing school, top two classes from middle school go to "grammar" school to do A-Levels. The others go to apprentice school to, unsurprisingly given the name, an apprenticeship. They can range from trades such as carpentry and plumbing to accountancy and finance. By the end of the first year of apprentice school students and teachers pick what their apprenticeship will be.
Middle school streaming based in a full assessment of talent and tendency would be superb.
My challenge is still around this divide between academic grammars and apprenticeships.
That still means to me a class or caste system around an implicit assumption that academic = grammar = top 15%.
I want to see a real plurality of schools, any of which can lead to a diversity of tertiary education and career.
Creative, sporting, technical, computing, and liberal arts, and any other dimension you can think of.
A very stark divide between "grammar" and rest, even with the proper funding and focus on rest, exacerbates the class divide which remains one of this country's biggest problems.0 -
No, it already works with google. Google have blocked certain links related to privacy issues from their European servers. That is why it is more difficult to access google.com now and you are always redirected to google.co.uk. Some links and news items have been deleted from the EU versions of google to allow them to comply with EU law.HurstLlama said:
Really? The USA is going to be covered by this? I mean US citizens are going to governed by an EU court judgment? I don't think so.Richard_Tyndall said:
Unfortunately not. Like the google privacy ruling it will apply to any site that can be viewed inside the EU. Offshoring won't work.HurstLlama said:
Good job we are leaving the EU and none of that shit will apply to us. That said, two thoughts:Richard_Tyndall said:
I have checked to make sure the ruling is not being exaggerated but some of the effects include:Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Tyndall, that's crazy.
The CJEU states that: “when hyperlinks are posted for profit, it may be expected that the person who posted such a link should carry out the checks necessary to ensure that the work concerned is not illegally published.” This places an unduly heavy burden on small businesses and bloggers who may not have the resources or the expertise to check the legality of every link they share.
Hobby bloggers who earn even a modest income from their work, such as by having ads on their blog, will now be legally responsible for ascertaining the copyright status of every item of external content they link to (photos on Flickr, music on Vimeo, etc.)
Small businesses which use Facebook for promotion will now need to check the copyright status of everything they share.
Who will be responsible for going back and checking all historical links to ensure none of them host copyright infringing content? This is clearly a legal and logistical nightmare scenario.
1. Will the big boys really want to discourage links? Links drive traffic to their sites, do they want to stop that?
2. How the feck does the Eu think this can be enforced? Register your site off-shore and their silly rules are irrelevant.0 -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1EFyyoxa4kSean_F said:
"When arrested by police, Francis-Grayson asked " is it 'cos i's black?"AndyJS said:
Probably members of Islington North Labour Party.PlatoSaid said:More on the defendants
Court News
'Black Lives Matter' protesters include Deborah Francis-Grayson, 31, Richard Collet-White, 23, and Sam Lund-Harket, 32.
Double barrels all round!0 -
Mr. Llama, that's what happened with the #VATmess.
The sale required the payment of VAT to the country in which the buyer resided, so even if it was an American granny selling a knitting pattern, if she did it to a Luxembourger then she's liable for the tax.
The EU are utterly ****ing incompetent.
Edited extra bit: I suspect most such grannies will be entirely unaware of this, and may just ignore it, but that's the law, as I understand it.0 -
Since every site in the world 'can be viewed inside the EU' doesn't this mean that it would apply to e.g. American Websites.Richard_Tyndall said:
Unfortunately not. Like the google privacy ruling it will apply to any site that can be viewed inside the EU. Offshoring won't work.HurstLlama said:
Good job we are leaving the EU and none of that shit will apply to us. That said, two thoughts:Richard_Tyndall said:
I have checked to make sure the ruling is not being exaggerated but some of the effects include:Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Tyndall, that's crazy.
The CJEU states that: “when hyperlinks are posted for profit, it may be expected that the person who posted such a link should carry out the checks necessary to ensure that the work concerned is not illegally published.” This places an unduly heavy burden on small businesses and bloggers who may not have the resources or the expertise to check the legality of every link they share.
Hobby bloggers who earn even a modest income from their work, such as by having ads on their blog, will now be legally responsible for ascertaining the copyright status of every item of external content they link to (photos on Flickr, music on Vimeo, etc.)
Small businesses which use Facebook for promotion will now need to check the copyright status of everything they share.
Who will be responsible for going back and checking all historical links to ensure none of them host copyright infringing content? This is clearly a legal and logistical nightmare scenario.
1. Will the big boys really want to discourage links? Links drive traffic to their sites, do they want to stop that?
2. How the feck does the Eu think this can be enforced? Register your site off-shore and their silly rules are irrelevant.
I can't wait!
If that is the law, then the law is an ass. -- Mr Bumble0
