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edited April 2013 in General

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Ed Miliband can take heart from Maggie in 1979. In spite of being 19pc behind in the best PM ratings she won a majority of 44

One of the great hopes for GE2015 that you hear repeatedly from blue team supporters is that when it comes to the crunch voters won’t back an Ed Miliband-led government.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • carl
    carl Posts: 750
    Astute observation.

    And in 1997 didn't the Tories have a lead on managing the economy?
  • AndyJS
    AndyJS Posts: 29,395
    "A police officer was injured when violence flared at a gathering in Bristol to celebrate the death of Margaret Thatcher.

    Officers were called to Chelsea Road, Easton, shortly after midnight where about 200 people had gathered.

    A spokesperson said the protesters refused to leave peacefully and bottles and cans were thrown at officers.

    Bins were also set on fire. The force said one person was arrested on suspicion of violent disorder."
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-22077072
  • hucks67
    hucks67 Posts: 758
    Don't like the 'best PM' question in polling. Unfair on others who are not currently PM. Until someone is actually doing the job, it is difficult to judge them. Nick Clegg would have scored fairly well at the time of the leaders TV debates, but now look at how people view him.
  • Plato
    Plato Posts: 15,724
    edited April 2013
    FPT

    RT @KulganofCrydee: @JimDavisOnAir As for closing the pits, Lady Thatcher closed 22 pits, but Labour's Harold Wilson closed 93.

    Is this correct?

    RT @LibertyscottUK: (1/3) I'm curious as to why so much of post-coal mining Britain remains in victim mode 30 years later, compared to eastern europe...

    This struck me as really odd the other day when we were discussing fracking - and earthquakes so inconsequential that they'd not wake you up.

    Mining is a dangerous, horrible job whatever way you look at it. It's not noble - its an awful way to earn a living, why is it treated as some totem by the Left? I'd rather work at Nissan myself.

    and in other news...

    The Argus gets all the best headlines ;^ ) We had a bearded lady in crucifixion shocker the other day...

    https://twitter.com/cocker/status/321495295613628416/photo/1
  • Blue_rog
    Blue_rog Posts: 2,019
    To misquote, Ed Milliband is no Margaret Thatcher.
  • BenM
    BenM Posts: 1,795
    Looking at Today's yougov, for all the sound and fury from Tories, it seems Welfare has only hardened already held opinion and not moved the polls at all.

    That's a bad sign for the Tories.
  • Alanbrooke
    Alanbrooke Posts: 25,926
    Funniest thread opener yet. Nice one Mike.
  • MikeSmithson
    MikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    Attention all posters who are inserting images

    There could be a copyright issue here which would end up in me having to fork out cash.

    If there is any chance that what you are posting is subject to copyright then refrain from posting it.

    The moderation team is being advised.
  • Plato
    Plato Posts: 15,724
    This is probably the best Mrs T cartoon so far.

    http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02530/ADAMSTHATCHER_2530757a.jpg
  • CarlottaVance
    CarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    Its not as though Thatcher and Callaghan were virtually interchangeable on the policy front or their attitudes to the Unions or the Economy.....not something that could be said of Miliband or Cameron....
  • Mick_Pork
    Mick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    FPT
    Carola said:

    Livingstone's spoken the most sense on the Thatcher legacy imo. I'd be willing to debate that view, but on here discussion is closed down before it even starts.

    (Plus, I'm off oop north...).

    To cheer some up in these hard times, this made me laugh:

    http://reasonsmysoniscrying.tumblr.com/

    As did this:

    http://loldaddy.com/pics/6754

    LOL

    Who doesn't love a bit of cat based humour? ;^)

  • AndyJS
    AndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited April 2013
    The fact that the top rate of income tax was 60% for 9 out of 11 years of Thatcher's time in office shows how much things have changed since then, with even Gordon Brown presiding over a lower top rate.
  • TGOHF
    TGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Red and Maggie are very similar.

    Apart from the lack of policies, courage and conviction.
  • CarlottaVance
    CarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    BenM said:

    Looking at Today's yougov, for all the sound and fury from Tories, it seems Welfare has only hardened already held opinion and not moved the polls at all.

    BenM - its OGH and tim who keep ramping 'welfare should move the polls for the Tories' - the Tories think its i) The Economy, ii) The Economy and iii) The Economy....

    Welfare is just something 'not to screw up' - and so far it looks like they have not....

  • Mick_Pork
    Mick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    MikeSmithson said:

    If there is any chance that what you are posting is subject to copyright then refrain from posting it.

    The moderation team is being advised.

    I presume graphs, tables and such are fine since they are used on PB every day?

  • Plato
    Plato Posts: 15,724
    @MikeSmithson

    I'm confused here - surely links to images on the site that owns the copyright is okay since it takes traffic to them and is no different from anyone reading their site?

    Or have I missed something?
  • carl
    carl Posts: 750
    Anyone seen the Amazon Download Chart?

    Sensitive souls / Outrage Tourists may be advised not to look...
  • Plato
    Plato Posts: 15,724
    AndyJS said:

    The fact that the top rate of income tax was 60% for 9 out of 11 years of Thatcher's time in office shows how much things have changed since then, with even Gordon Brown presiding over a lower top rate.

    That's really interesting - certainly if we take things like Mrs T's Bruges Speech, that's not off-beam at all today and her Cabinet was full of wets even if they weren't to her taste.
  • Mick_Pork
    Mick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    "It was the same in the 1970 general election when Edward Heath won a majority even though he was a long way behind Harold Wilson on measures like “best PM”. "

    For some strange reason the PB tories aren't so keen to highlight that one. ;^)
  • AndyJS
    AndyJS Posts: 29,395
    O/T:

    New Australian opinion poll:

    Coalition 48%
    Labor 32%
    Green 11%
    Others 9%

    2PP:
    Coalition: 55%
    Labor: 45%

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_Australian_federal_election,_2013
  • MikeSmithson
    MikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    @Plaro Links are fine. But, as on the past thread, an embedded pic is posted then I worry.

    YouTube is fine and it's okay to embed Tweets including those with pics.
  • Sunil_Prasannan
    Sunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,077
    Ed M is no Margaret Thatcher!
  • JohnO
    JohnO Posts: 4,312
    tim said:

    Nobody in their right mind takes Best PM ratings seriously, Thatcher had a lead of 15 points on the MORI approval ratings and they are what count as a guide to voting intention.

    But as I have repeatedly told you, Callaghan had very solid leads on that question right through 1978 with Mrs T only taking the lead during the winter of discontent in early 1979, which were also simultaneously reflected in VI polling.

    At this stage in the Parliament both approval ratings and VI polls, interesting as they are as instant snapshots, count diddly squat as predictors for 2015.
  • CarlottaVance
    CarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    Andrew Gilligan keeps going against Hacked Off:

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/andrewgilligan/100211282/hacked-off-i-am-going-to-have-such-fun-with-these-people/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
  • MikeSmithson
    MikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    Mick_Pork said:

    "It was the same in the 1970 general election when Edward Heath won a majority even though he was a long way behind Harold Wilson on measures like “best PM”. "

    For some strange reason the PB tories aren't so keen to highlight that one. ;^)

    Edward Heath was a great Prime Minister - someone that all Tories should be proud of.

    His victory in 1970 was the only occasion since the war when a party with a working majority was replaced by another also with a working majority.



  • BenM
    BenM Posts: 1,795
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    Ed M is no Margaret Thatcher!

    Only because he is not PM. Yet.
  • anothernick
    anothernick Posts: 3,591
    I'm sure Mike's analysis is correct. Elections are not won or lost purely on the ratings of the party leaders - many other factors are at work. The Tories cannot hope to win solely on the basis of Cameron's personal ratings, which in any case are very low by historical standards.

    IMO the decline in personal ratings of all political leaders in recent years will tend to make the personality of the leader a less important factor in elections. People think they're all lying shysters and there's not much to choose between them.
  • Mick_Pork
    Mick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    MikeSmithson said:

    @Plaro Links are fine. But, as on the past thread, an embedded pic is posted then I worry.

    YouTube is fine and it's okay to embed Tweets including those with pics.

    Posted WITH the link. Nor is it the first one. I'm surprised cat based humour arouses such ire and fear.

  • Plato
    Plato Posts: 15,724
    RT @LabourHistory: The 1992 general election took place on this day - 19 Labour MPs first elected that day are still in the House of Commons
  • JohnO
    JohnO Posts: 4,312
    @tim And you also know that I agree with you and Mike on the uselessness of the Best PM question!
  • Jonathan
    Jonathan Posts: 22,107
    There are certainly parallels between Ed and Maggie. Both have been mocked as LoO and divide opinion, both faced a more popular opponent in a hung parliament, both acquired the leadership with a touch of ruthlessness.
  • Sunil_Prasannan
    Sunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,077
    Seeing as it's a good day to bury bad news, I've been in between jobs for two years now. And I can't even scrounge off all you wealthy, successful PBers properly - I haven't been eligible for JSA for 18 months, um, due to a reasonably healthy bank balance. And while I have been able to move back in with my parents, the down-side is I do get shouted at by mum whenever I express the slightest bit of support for The Coalition/Israel/USA/The Monarchy - oh, and Mrs Thatcher!

    There, I said it!

    [raises glass to all of you]
  • Plato
    Plato Posts: 15,724
    OT the disparity of adoption times is really appalling - let's hope a national standard guideline can be applied here, there's no need for such disparities.

    http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/04/05/article-2304366-191AB883000005DC-993_634x866.jpg

    Full story - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2304366/Map-shows-worst-councils-adoption-waiting-times-Kensington-Chelsea-Wolverhampton.html
  • Sunil_Prasannan
    Sunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,077
    edited April 2013
    Are all you PB Lefties going to boycott Mr Whippy ice cream henceforth?

    :)
  • Plato
    Plato Posts: 15,724
    Jonathan said:

    There are certainly parallels between Ed and Maggie. Both have been mocked as LoO and divide opinion, both faced a more popular opponent in a hung parliament, both acquired the leadership with a touch of ruthlessness.

    Yeah, right...
  • Plato
    Plato Posts: 15,724
    @Sunil_Prasannan

    Still have my fingers crossed for you. Such a smart, well qualified and sociable chap will be snapped up when the right match turns up.
  • RichardNabavi
    RichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    The idea of Ed Miliband , the epitome of naive opportunism, taking comfort from the successes of Margaret Thatcher is rather quaint.
  • MikeSmithson
    MikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    tim said:

    JohnO

    That's a different point to Best PM/Best President being useless due to their incumbency bias

    Why do you think US pollsters use Favourability rather than Best President?

    I'm a great fan of the US "favourable" questioning even though they spell it wrongly.


  • boulay
    boulay Posts: 6,612
    There seems to be a push from some wags on the far left to get people to download "the witch is dead" from the wizard of oz in order to try and get it to number one in the charts. Apart from the side splitingly funny wheeze this is and its sheer classiness does anyone know if broadcasters would be obliged to play it in their run down of the charts or would they be able to skip it on grounds of taste?
  • FluffyThoughts
    FluffyThoughts Posts: 2,420
    Plato said:

    @MikeSmithson

    I'm confused here - surely links to images on the site that owns the copyright is okay since it takes traffic to them and is no different from anyone reading their site?

    Or have I missed something?

    'Hot-linking' is frowned-upon. It increases the server load on the [picture] hosting site.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inline_linking
  • Plato
    Plato Posts: 15,724
    edited April 2013
    The Times frontpage when Mrs T won leadership in 1975.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BHZbxwxCUAA-iEW.jpg:large
  • anothernick
    anothernick Posts: 3,591
    Jonathan said:

    There are certainly parallels between Ed and Maggie. Both have been mocked as LoO and divide opinion, both faced a more popular opponent in a hung parliament, both acquired the leadership with a touch of ruthlessness.


    ...and both led united parties facing divided opponents which lost significant numbers of voters to breakaway parties.
  • Mick_Pork
    Mick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    The calamity Clegg fightback begins. 'Alarm Clock Britain' watch out. ;)
    thisiscornwall ‏@thisiscornwall 11m

    Nick Clegg: 'We can oust the Tories from power': A defiant Nick Clegg yesterday said his resurgent... http://bit.ly/10OIj6p #Cornwall
  • Easterross
    Easterross Posts: 1,915
    Ed Milibland is no Ted Heath let alone a Margaret Thatcher. Ted Heath spoke at an election rally for me in 1987 but he was still a dreadful PM.
  • AlastairMeeks
    AlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    @Plato This graph from the BBC shows the relative impact of different 11 year periods on mining output:

    http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/45581000/gif/_45581766_uk_mining_11year466.gif

    It's a complete myth that Margaret Thatcher was either wholly or even mainly responsible for pit closures. As can be seen from this graph, mining output declined more slowly under her tenure of office than either before or afterwards.
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 0
    Miliband cf Thatcher - I doubt if there'll ever be any obits discussing Milibandism - he's just not interesting enough.
  • sam
    sam Posts: 727
    edited April 2013
    As far as Ed Miliband is concerned, as long as he doesnt give a cast iron guarantee on a EU referendum and then renege, or promise to scrap tuition fees, and then vote to treble them, he will be doing better than the current people in charge, should he win in 2015.

    Those who demand commitments on policy from him now should be a little more critical of people who make promises they dont keep. Maybe, I am not saying this is the case, but maybe he doesnt want to be seen as someone who breaks his word.
  • Sunil_Prasannan
    Sunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,077
    @Plato

    Thanks, Plato. Hope you're coping too. Looks like the coldest days are past us, hopefully!
  • RichardNabavi
    RichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    antifrank said:


    It's a complete myth that Margaret Thatcher was either wholly or even mainly responsible for pit closures. As can be seen from this graph, mining output declined more slowly under her tenure of office than either before or afterwards.

    And of course the same is true of manufacturing.

    But mere facts won't dislodge the myths.
  • Blue_rog
    Blue_rog Posts: 2,019
    O/T is there a DD drinky session next week? I may be able to attend if so
  • Mick_Pork
    Mick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited April 2013
    anothernick said:


    ...and both led united parties

    As united as they still are today on Europe. Hence Thatcher getting booted out by her own party.



  • Plato
    Plato Posts: 15,724
    Easterross said:

    Ed Milibland is no Ted Heath let alone a Margaret Thatcher. Ted Heath spoke at an election rally for me in 1987 but he was still a dreadful PM.

    Great to see you posting. And how popular your @HighlandCraic twitter account is proving to be for local businesses - good luck.
  • carl
    carl Posts: 750
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    Are all you PB Lefties going to boycott Mr Whippy ice cream henceforth?

    :)

    Don't be silly.

    We're mature enough to put our political differences to one side and celebrate Thatcher's one genuinely positive achievement.
  • nigel4england
    nigel4england Posts: 4,800
    MikeSmithson said:

    Mick_Pork said:

    "It was the same in the 1970 general election when Edward Heath won a majority even though he was a long way behind Harold Wilson on measures like “best PM”. "

    For some strange reason the PB tories aren't so keen to highlight that one. ;^)

    Edward Heath was a great Prime Minister - someone that all Tories should be proud of.

    His victory in 1970 was the only occasion since the war when a party with a working majority was replaced by another also with a working majority.

    Probably the most stupid comment I have ever read on here.


  • MikeSmithson
    MikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    Blue_rog said:

    O/T is there a DD drinky session next week? I may be able to attend if so

    Yes. The next PB Dirty Dicks Do (DDD) is on Friday April 19th from 1830. The pub is in Bishopsgate opposite Liverpool St station.



  • Mick_Pork
    Mick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited April 2013
    Back to politics almost as usual.
    ITV News ‏@itvnews 7m

    UKIP leader Nigel Farage says he will sign the book of condolence for Lady Thatcher in Grantham later today http://itv.co/10HajY8
  • Plato
    Plato Posts: 15,724
    scampi said:

    Miliband cf Thatcher - I doubt if there'll ever be any obits discussing Milibandism - he's just not interesting enough.

    Two years as leader and he's still mistaken either deliberately or accidentally as his brother.

    That says it all.
  • TGOHF
    TGOHF Posts: 21,633
    I guess another reason for the lefty bile is that there will not be any international coverage of any of their leaders passing - apart from the one they despise almost as much as Fatch - Tony Blair.
  • AndyJS
    AndyJS Posts: 29,395
    The number of police officers injured in Bristol has now risen to six:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-22077072#TWEET716309
  • Plato
    Plato Posts: 15,724
    edited April 2013
    AndyJS said:

    The number of police officers injured in Bristol has now risen to six:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-22077072#TWEET716309

    Just appalling on so many levels. She was a very old widow who had Alzheimesers and been out of power for 23yrs.

    What sort of person indulges in this pathetic bullying or assaulting coppers? A very small or easily led person IMO.
  • Mick_Pork
    Mick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited April 2013
    "Their reasoning is that in poll after poll when those interviewed asked to name who would make the “best PM” Ed always trails Dave."

    However, as long as Cammie's approval ratings beat the nasty party's own toxic brand ratings for the tories he can always throw that back in the face of the more excitable backbenchers when the infighting on Europe begins again.
  • TGOHF
    TGOHF Posts: 21,633
    CarlottaVance said:

    Andrew Gilligan keeps going against Hacked Off:

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/andrewgilligan/100211282/hacked-off-i-am-going-to-have-such-fun-with-these-people/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

    Great story from AG - lifting the lid on these shady burghers.
  • AndyJS
    AndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Why are the far-left such an appalling bunch of human beings? They're doing an excellent job at the moment of proving to everyone why it was so important they never got their hands on power in this country.
  • Plato
    Plato Posts: 15,724
    edited April 2013
    AndyJS said:

    Why are the far-left such an appalling bunch of human beings? They're doing an excellent job at the moment of proving to everyone why it was so important they never got their hands on power in this country.

    Yup. And they have the temerity to decry others as the Nasty Party - yeah, right.

    The far-left are by a long chalk the most unpleasant people I've had the misfortune to meet. Bullying, sanctimonious, threatening and gobby - the same sort dug up people's mother's graves in the name of animal rights.

    It's beyond my comprehension to even guess at their mindset. I joined the Anti-Vivisection League as a teenager and was promptly put off them.
  • AndyJS
    AndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Ian McEwan in the Guardian:
    "But if today's Guardian readers time-travelled to the late 70s they might be irritated to discover that tomorrow's TV listings were a state secret not shared with daily newspapers. A special licence was granted exclusively to the Radio Times. (No wonder it sold 7m copies a week). It was illegal to put an extension lead on your phone. You would need to wait six weeks for an engineer. There was only one state-approved answering machine available. Your local electricity "board" could be a very unfriendly place. Thatcher swept away those state monopolies in the new coinage of "privatisation" and transformed daily life in a way we now take for granted."
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/apr/09/margaret-thatcher-ian-mcewan
  • Mick_Pork
    Mick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    David Conn ‏@david_conn 11h

    After reports on Margaret Thatcher's legacy on BBC News, the next item was this government's cuts to disabled people's living allowance.
    "Aspiration Nation"
  • Mick_Pork
    Mick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    tim said:

    @TGOHF

    Ollie Letwin sold the Poll Tax to Thatcher.
    Ollie Letwin sold the Leveson deal and the NHS reorganisation to Cameron.

    That's all very well but how does it affect serial labour voting floating voters with a fiscal conservative twist? ;^)

  • carl
    carl Posts: 750
    Good Thatcher piece from Mehdi Hasan, Huffpost

    Was Thatcher A 'Champion of Freedom and Democracy'? Don't. Be. Silly.


    I suspect, however, that the citizens of countries such as Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Indonesia, Iraq, South Africa and Chile might disagree. The inconvenient truth for Thatcher fans is that the freedom-loving, democracy-defending British premier was a close friend and admirer of the thugs, thieves, despots and racists who ruled over those nations in the 1980s.
  • Sunil_Prasannan
    Sunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,077
    carl said:

    Good Thatcher piece from Mehdi Hasan, Huffpost

    Was Thatcher A 'Champion of Freedom and Democracy'? Don't. Be. Silly.


    I suspect, however, that the citizens of countries such as Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Indonesia, Iraq, South Africa and Chile might disagree. The inconvenient truth for Thatcher fans is that the freedom-loving, democracy-defending British premier was a close friend and admirer of the thugs, thieves, despots and racists who ruled over those nations in the 1980s.

    But isn't Mehdi Hasan an Islamist?
  • MikeK
    MikeK Posts: 9,053
    edited April 2013
    hucks67 said:

    Don't like the 'best PM' question in polling. Unfair on others who are not currently PM. Until someone is actually doing the job, it is difficult to judge them. Nick Clegg would have scored fairly well at the time of the leaders TV debates, but now look at how people view him.

    Good morning. I've always thought that the, 'best premier' question was a poor indicator of party standing. On one side you have a sitting PM on the other side you have a PM or PM's in waiting. No contest!
  • dr_spyn
    dr_spyn Posts: 11,312
    Ed M is no Margaret Thatcher.
  • MrsB
    MrsB Posts: 574
    Ah yes, the poll tax.

    Amazingly, there are still people who think that taxing everyone the same amount regardless of their income/wealth is fair.

  • TGOHF
    TGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Sunil_Prasannan said:



    But isn't Mehdi Hasan an Islamist?

    I think twat is the word you are looking for.
  • Plato
    Plato Posts: 15,724
    edited April 2013
    @Carl

    "Good Thatcher piece from Mehdi Hasan, Huffpost"

    Would this be Mehdi Hassan who called non Muslims kaffars and other names?

    I really don't think citing him does your argument any good. There are several unappealing videos of him in his own words on YouTube - if you've missed them, a simple Google search will be helpful.

    Harry's Place has a link to a few of them http://hurryupharry.org/2009/07/27/mehdi-hasan-part-ii-muslims-and-non-muslims/

    "Remember, Mehdi Hasan is not a cleric. He is a Senior Editor of a Left wing newspaper. So ask yourself how you would react if a prominent white, non-Muslim journalist gave a talk to a primarily white audience on the need for greater education in which he argued that “we whites should educate ourselves and embrace knowledge, otherwise we will be no better than Muslims” in which he also compared Muslims to “cattle” and “animals”. When examining the actions of public figures we should treat them equally, irrespective of their ethnicity and faith."
  • Alanbrooke
    Alanbrooke Posts: 25,926
    MrsB said:

    Ah yes, the poll tax.

    Amazingly, there are still people who think that taxing everyone the same amount regardless of their income/wealth is fair.

    The BBC ?
  • TGOHF
    TGOHF Posts: 21,633
    MrsB said:

    Ah yes, the poll tax.

    Amazingly, there are still people who think that taxing everyone the same amount regardless of their income/wealth is fair.

    Yes we will never truly be an equitable nation until the rich pay £10 for a pint of milk.


  • Mick_Pork
    Mick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited April 2013
    ITV News ‏@itvnews 18m

    Pinochet's son says his father and Thatcher had a very good relationship as “she recognised his capacity to govern” http://itv.co/YdUKdf
    I'm sure this must have something to do with bullying, sanctimonious, threatening and gobby animal rights campaigners or some such inept public relations nonsense.
  • dr_spyn
    dr_spyn Posts: 11,312
    Are screen grabs of images from other sites permitted with or without the link?

    Best PM, on what criteria?
  • Mick_Pork
    Mick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    But isn't Mehdi Hasan an Islamist?

    He may even favour letting in floods of criminal gangs of Bulgarian muslim immigrant cats,
    Perhaps the most heinous crime of all. ;^)
  • malcolmg
    malcolmg Posts: 44,523
    Easterross said:

    Ed Milibland is no Ted Heath let alone a Margaret Thatcher. Ted Heath spoke at an election rally for me in 1987 but he was still a dreadful PM.

    Easterross. nice to see you back on again , been a long time.
  • TGOHF
    TGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Alanbrooke said:

    MrsB said:

    Ah yes, the poll tax.

    Amazingly, there are still people who think that taxing everyone the same amount regardless of their income/wealth is fair.

    The BBC ?
    :)

    And those evil post office types - an unemployed man has to pay the same for a stamp as a banker !!
  • Plato
    Plato Posts: 15,724
    MrsB said:

    Ah yes, the poll tax.

    Amazingly, there are still people who think that taxing everyone the same amount regardless of their income/wealth is fair.

    Well, IIRC the LDs want to base a punitive property tax based on a house value that has nothing to do with ability to pay - so what's your point here?
  • carl
    carl Posts: 750
    @Plato

    What on earth has that smeary gubbins got to do with the price of fish?

    I still highly recommend Hasan's article.
  • dr_spyn
    dr_spyn Posts: 11,312
    edited April 2013
    MrsB said:

    Ah yes, the poll tax.

    Amazingly, there are still people who think that taxing everyone the same amount regardless of their income/wealth is fair.

    Council Tax, Residents' Parking Fees or car permits; Car Park Fees in hospitals, metered street parking, multi-story car parks, television licences, road tax, fuel duties, beer, wine spirits and tobacco duties...
  • Plato
    Plato Posts: 15,724
    TGOHF said:

    Alanbrooke said:

    MrsB said:

    Ah yes, the poll tax.

    Amazingly, there are still people who think that taxing everyone the same amount regardless of their income/wealth is fair.

    The BBC ?
    :)

    And those evil post office types - an unemployed man has to pay the same for a stamp as a banker !!
    LOL
  • TGOHF
    TGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Plato said:

    MrsB said:

    Ah yes, the poll tax.

    Amazingly, there are still people who think that taxing everyone the same amount regardless of their income/wealth is fair.

    Well, IIRC the LDs want to base a punitive property tax based on a house value that has nothing to do with ability to pay - so what's your point here?
    The Mansion tax should be renamed the Granny Tax.
  • Plato
    Plato Posts: 15,724
    On the basis that free speech by proxy isn't banned on PB - an interesting anecdote from a former contributor.

    As a betting site = I assume these are acceptable bits of info to judge the public mood.

    RT @HD2: Several lamp-post posters out in my area - never seen any before. All for UKIP
  • carl
    carl Posts: 750
    Another goodie from Henry Winter in the Telegraph

    A full understanding of Thatcher’s remarkable career also requires an analysis of her stance on the national game, an ill-informed arrogance that has since been wisely avoided by prime ministers ever since.
  • Alanbrooke
    Alanbrooke Posts: 25,926
    TGOHF said:

    Plato said:

    MrsB said:

    Ah yes, the poll tax.

    Amazingly, there are still people who think that taxing everyone the same amount regardless of their income/wealth is fair.

    Well, IIRC the LDs want to base a punitive property tax based on a house value that has nothing to do with ability to pay - so what's your point here?
    The Mansion tax should be renamed the Granny Tax.
    Shouldn't it be the bedroom tax ? It is actually a tax, and people with more bedrooms will be paying it.
  • Alanbrooke
    Alanbrooke Posts: 25,926
    tim said:

    @TGOHF

    I thought the Tories were against underoccupancy and in favour of subletting.
    You were making the case yourself last week.

    Can't granny in a £2m mansion rent out a room or two?

    Reasonable point tim, but on that basis I suppose like Ed you'll be opposing it.
  • philiph
    philiph Posts: 4,705
    carl said:

    Good Thatcher piece from Mehdi Hasan, Huffpost

    Was Thatcher A 'Champion of Freedom and Democracy'? Don't. Be. Silly.


    I suspect, however, that the citizens of countries such as Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Indonesia, Iraq, South Africa and Chile might disagree. The inconvenient truth for Thatcher fans is that the freedom-loving, democracy-defending British premier was a close friend and admirer of the thugs, thieves, despots and racists who ruled over those nations in the 1980s.

    It is a function of Power that you form alliances and relationships with undesirables. The more international your power the more contemptible people you will be associated with. If you are a political hermit you are unlikely suffer from guilt by association. You'll also be insignificant long forgotten.

    Try Blair, Churchill and Thatcher as the three longest (?) serving pms in the last 70 years and lo, they all had deals and relations with the scum of the earth.
  • Plato
    Plato Posts: 15,724
    edited April 2013
    TGOHF said:

    Plato said:

    MrsB said:

    Ah yes, the poll tax.

    Amazingly, there are still people who think that taxing everyone the same amount regardless of their income/wealth is fair.

    Well, IIRC the LDs want to base a punitive property tax based on a house value that has nothing to do with ability to pay - so what's your point here?
    The Mansion tax should be renamed the Granny Tax.
    Indeed - can't have it both ways.

    I've just got my polling card and will be voting Tory - I've had a gut full of the LDs duplicity and lefty authoritarianism masquerading as liberals both in HMG and on PB. When Chris_G00 and Richard Tyndall leave, it says a lot as both were highly respected posters.

    There are a few exceptions but they're not at all what I believed them to be. The Tories are very far from perfect - but the best of bad job.
  • Mick_Pork
    Mick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    Plato said:

    I've just gt my polling card and will be voting Tory

    PB reels, stunned by this totally unexpected outcome. ;^)

  • Plato
    Plato Posts: 15,724
    carl said:

    Another goodie from Henry Winter in the Telegraph

    A full understanding of Thatcher’s remarkable career also requires an analysis of her stance on the national game, an ill-informed arrogance that has since been wisely avoided by prime ministers ever since.

    You are kidding aren't you? Quoting a football commentator on politics? Why not Sid Waddell on darts if he was still with us?

    Try this instead.

    RT @purpleline: @henrywinter @telegraph football is a Socialist game run by elites, just like Labour. Champagne socialists like Sir Alex keep the money
  • Mick_Pork
    Mick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    "lefty authoritarianism"
    no2id ‏@NO2ID 9h

    NUJ - NUJ: Home Office must consult on plans for discredited Snoopers’ Charter http://buff.ly/16IGBnL #NO2ID #SnoopersChater #Privacy
  • BenM
    BenM Posts: 1,795
    edited April 2013
    Austerity poster child The Netherlands in the do-do:

    http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/economic-crisis-hits-the-netherlands-a-891919.html#.UWPWqZcwKyg.twitter

    Dreadful Trade figures. Non EU trade doing particularly poorly. So much for "it's all the Eurozone's fault".
  • TGOHF
    TGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Alanbrooke said:

    tim said:

    @TGOHF

    I thought the Tories were against underoccupancy and in favour of subletting.
    You were making the case yourself last week.

    Can't granny in a £2m mansion rent out a room or two?

    Reasonable point tim, but on that basis I suppose like Ed you'll be opposing it.
    The state funding underoccupancy is one thing - supporting a tax to nudge/poke people into institutionalising the elderly is another.

    Should be the "send her to the granny farm" tax
  • carl
    carl Posts: 750
    @philiph

    Yeah that's a fair point. Oh for Robin Cook's ethical foreign policy.
  • Anorak
    Anorak Posts: 6,621
    TGOHF said:

    Should be the "send her to the granny farm" tax

    Logan's Run was a film, not a manual!

    [for the hard of thinking, this is an attempt at a joke]
  • Theuniondivvie
    Theuniondivvie Posts: 44,327
    edited April 2013
    philiph said:


    Try Blair, Churchill and Thatcher as the three longest (?) serving pms in the last 70 years and lo, they all had deals and relations with the scum of the earth.

    I'm sure there are also posters on websites in far away countries of which we know little who describe their leaders' erstwhile allies in such terms.
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