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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Ed Miliband can take heart from Maggie in 1979. In spite of

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  • On topic, don't misunderestimate Ed Miliband.
  • @Peter_The_Punter

    This may interest you

    Football referees cope with the pressures of the game by thinking they are better than other referees, a study claims today.

    It does not seem to matter whether they are working at Premier League or county level they both 'to a similar degree' see themselves as superior to their colleagues, the annual British Psychological Society (BPS) conference was told.


    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2306061/Referees-cope-abuse-feeling-superior-colleagues.html#ixzz2PxzCLeRW
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699

    @MarkSenior - What is the total number of seats?

    Is anyone running unopposed?

    This is a strikethrough test

    Total number of seats is around 2,380 . There are around 8 Conservatives elected unopposed and rather more from Labour and Conservatives guaranteed a seat in multi member wards . One LD in Bude is guaranteed a seat as there are 2 Lib Dems and just 1 Conservative opponent .

  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,168
    @Financier , @CarlottaVance

    Cheers for that. The rise of Korean shipbuilding in particular has been spectacular - over half the gross tonnage of ships comes from South Korea. It could have been us. As your contributions indicate, there was no physical reason for mass commercial shipbuilding in the UK to die. But die it did.
  • It's OK to slap lazy civil servants, Indian minister declares

    Civil servants can be slapped by their political masters if they do not follow orders clearly and work hard, an Indian minster has said.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/india/9981020/Its-OK-to-slap-lazy-civil-servants-Indian-minister-declares.html
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143

    @MarkSenior - What is the total number of seats?

    Is anyone running unopposed?

    This is a strikethrough test

    Total number of seats is around 2,380 . There are around 8 Conservatives elected unopposed and rather more from Labour and Conservatives guaranteed a seat in multi member wards . One LD in Bude is guaranteed a seat as there are 2 Lib Dems and just 1 Conservative opponent .

    Thanks for that Mark.

    The average number of candidates per seat is just over 4.
  • @TSE

    No surprise at all, TSE.

    I certainly thought I was better than my peers. Two caveats though. My marks suggested I was. Also, on the one occasion when I stepped up a level to take a semi-pro game (Clapton v Barking) I was immediately conscious of being a little out of my depth.

    So some of us do know our limitations!
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143

    @Financier , @CarlottaVance

    Cheers for that. The rise of Korean shipbuilding in particular has been spectacular - over half the gross tonnage of ships comes from South Korea. It could have been us. As your contributions indicate, there was no physical reason for mass commercial shipbuilding in the UK to die. But die it did.

    What would it take for us to start making ships again?
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472

    @Financier , @CarlottaVance

    Cheers for that. The rise of Korean shipbuilding in particular has been spectacular - over half the gross tonnage of ships comes from South Korea. It could have been us. As your contributions indicate, there was no physical reason for mass commercial shipbuilding in the UK to die. But die it did.

    What would it take for us to start making ships again?
    The Unions to adopt the same attitude as the carmaker unions..
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    I guess all police leave has been cancelled for next Wednesday.

    Fortnam and Masons must be worried - will there be "protests" ?
  • @Tim

    "I see it as a very good thing for Labour and Lib adems in the short run."

    On the evidence of Eastleigh I should say UKIP draw support fairly evenly from other Parties, but we'll have a better idea of that after May 2nd.

    Btw, I hope you didn't mind me taking your name in vain in my Grand National piece! It was just a bit of fun, as you probably guessed.

    Would have been a lot more fun if Colbert Street had actually won though.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621

    @Financier , @CarlottaVance

    Cheers for that. The rise of Korean shipbuilding in particular has been spectacular - over half the gross tonnage of ships comes from South Korea. It could have been us. As your contributions indicate, there was no physical reason for mass commercial shipbuilding in the UK to die. But die it did.

    What would it take for us to start making ships again?
    The Unions to adopt the same attitude as the carmaker unions..
    Plus colossal tax-breaks and government support in skills training. I don't think you'd attract the necessary investment without that. The taint of the historical labour problems would be too much.
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    Anorak said:

    @Financier , @CarlottaVance

    Cheers for that. The rise of Korean shipbuilding in particular has been spectacular - over half the gross tonnage of ships comes from South Korea. It could have been us. As your contributions indicate, there was no physical reason for mass commercial shipbuilding in the UK to die. But die it did.

    What would it take for us to start making ships again?
    The Unions to adopt the same attitude as the carmaker unions..
    Plus colossal tax-breaks and government support in skills training. I don't think you'd attract the necessary investment without that. The taint of the historical labour problems would be too much.
    Agreed..but it happened in motor manufacturing..it could happen in the shipbuilding industry,it just takes a shift in attitude..the rest will follow
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,207

    AndyJS said:

    Apparently the ICM poll showed 55% of people in England thought Thatcher was good for Britain compared to 50% for the UK overall.

    What was the Scottish figure on Thatcher adoration Andy, 20%, or did they not break it down?
    The Tory Party still attracts between 14 and 16% of the Scottish vote in recent elections.
    It has ONE MP in Scotland and only has a handful of MSP's due to the list method whereby they get free seats for getting hammered.
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    Interesting ICM poll on attitudes to Thatcher.

    In particular, the result that only 23% of Scots rate her record as good for Britain, compared to 47% in the north, and higher in the rest of England, is quite striking.

    If Salmond can make the independence referendum a vote on the Thatcherite consensus that exists in British politics, but not in Scotland, then he will surely win.
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    Last night on TV

    20:30 BBC1 Margaret Thatcher obituary special 2.48m viewers (9.7%)
    10:45 ITV Margaret Thatcher: The Woman Who Changed Britain 845,000 viewers (7.5%)
    20:00 Channel 4 Maggie & Me 688k (2.8%)
  • carlcarl Posts: 750
    Amusing Twitter spat going on involving Louise Mensch.

    The terminally clueless Mensch has claimed that Tony Benn "loved" Thatcher.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,168

    @Financier , @CarlottaVance

    Cheers for that. The rise of Korean shipbuilding in particular has been spectacular - over half the gross tonnage of ships comes from South Korea. It could have been us. As your contributions indicate, there was no physical reason for mass commercial shipbuilding in the UK to die. But die it did.

    What would it take for us to start making ships again?
    Not my area of expertise; I'm just interested in this sort of thing.

    I doubt we could. Firstly, there are thoroughly entrenched and very competitive shipyards in many Far Eastern countries. To get a toehold we'd need to specialise, and that holds danger in itself - what happens if the speciality market disappears?

    What is really needed is a new technology to shake up the industry, one that will require them to retool and change practices. This is what happened in the 1960s and 1970s in the move to welded ships and modular construction. As Financier mentioned below, they moved to these new technologies and methodologies quickly; we did not.

    The MV Derbyshire disaster in 1980 marked the end of Britain's true shipbuilding capability IMHO (1). It also led to a brilliant newspaper headline in 1994: "ITF find Derbyshire!"

    It reminds me of Admiral Fisher and the Dreadnoughts in 1906. At that time, the Royal Navy was dominant, and Germany in particular could not compete with out sheer number of pre-Dreadnought iron-hulled ships. Then HMS Dreadnought (1) came along; it was such a revolution that immediately all other ships were rendered more or less redundant.

    That sadly included our own massive fleet. All Germany had to do after that was to build one dreadnought for each one we built, a much easier proposition that led to a naval arms race and the Battle of Jutland ten years later.

    (2): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Dreadnought_(1906)

    (1): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MV_Derbyshire
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,659

    Anorak said:

    @Financier , @CarlottaVance

    Cheers for that. The rise of Korean shipbuilding in particular has been spectacular - over half the gross tonnage of ships comes from South Korea. It could have been us. As your contributions indicate, there was no physical reason for mass commercial shipbuilding in the UK to die. But die it did.

    What would it take for us to start making ships again?
    The Unions to adopt the same attitude as the carmaker unions..
    Plus colossal tax-breaks and government support in skills training. I don't think you'd attract the necessary investment without that. The taint of the historical labour problems would be too much.
    Agreed..but it happened in motor manufacturing..it could happen in the shipbuilding industry,it just takes a shift in attitude..the rest will follow
    The historic taint probably matters much less now as many of the old-school shipyard workers would not be applying for any new jobs and - even more importantly - the collective mindsets from those yards has long since gone. The biggest problem these days would probably be the lack of workers with the necessary skills in the appropriate areas.

    I'm still upset and annoyed that the last Conservative government didn't do more to protect the rail manufacturing industry during the last years of BR, when there was a temporary and exceptional lull in orders, prior to privatisation. The manufacturers were competitive and it was essentially a government decision that put them out of business. That's another heavy industry it should be possible to get up and running again with a bit of willpower.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited April 2013
    ICM show 55% of people in England thought Thatcher was good for Britain.

    Not that surprising when you consider she got close to 50% of the vote in England in the 1979, 1983 and 1987 elections.

    The figure in Wales was 34% and in Scotland 23%.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,207

    Interesting ICM poll on attitudes to Thatcher.

    In particular, the result that only 23% of Scots rate her record as good for Britain, compared to 47% in the north, and higher in the rest of England, is quite striking.

    If Salmond can make the independence referendum a vote on the Thatcherite consensus that exists in British politics, but not in Scotland, then he will surely win.

    Amazed that it is 23% , can only presume it is that high as it asked if good for Britain. Would expect much lower if Scotland specific.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983


    It really only takes one to disagree if that one is intent on being intransigent.

    Even if you take that view (and one man's intransigence is another's principled stand) then the fact that there has been a strike isnt proof of trade union failure either, it could as easily be employer intransigence.

  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    The idea of Ed Miliband , the epitome of naive opportunism, taking comfort from the successes of Margaret Thatcher is rather quaint.

    If someone tried to claim Ed wasn't for turning, you would have to laugh in their face.
  • O/T

    ***** Betting Post *****

    Surprisingly few constituency bets for the next GE from the bookies are as yet on offer to get stuck into, grabbing hold of those "certainties" before any value disappears so I've been looking elsewhere.

    Next season's Premier League title seems almost certain to be between the two Manchester clubs (even if, as rumoured, the Special One were to return to Chelsea). A 44% return is available if I'm right by backing United at 1.625/1 (staking 55%) and City at 2.2/1 (staking 45%) where in both cases these odds are on offer from Paddy Power.

    On balance however the value bet is probably to stick with Man Utd alone - I just don't see how any other team will be able to make up the gulf which currently exists over the course of just one season, so those 11/8 odds (available from various bookies) look distinctly tasty.

    As ever do your own research.
  • @Carl

    You are I think a newish poster here, Carl, so you may be unaware that '...the terminally clueless Mensch' used to be a regular.

    She was a bit obsessive about her anonymity, and I am glad to say that nobody ever revealed her 'stage name' on Site, although her identity was fairly widely-known.

    I wouldn't have described her as clueless. She was on the whole an amiable and well-liked poster, though perhaps not quite the brightest spark in the firework display.

    But then how many can live up to the extraordinarily high standards set by JackW and myself?
  • @Tim

    Noted with thanks, Tim.

    I was saved by the Tory choice, Cappa Bleu, which proved very good at coming second.
  • New Thread
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,168
    @David_Herdson

    The ten-year lull in new orders before and after privatisation did kill off the remnants of BREL and its successors. But the death had been going on for much longer than that. As a kid I got to go around the loco and carriage works at Derby, and some of the facilities and practices were distinctly substandard. Some of the union members' reaction to external contractors were sadly somewhat unhelpful.

    BREL was far from competitive at the time. The class 59 was built by General Motors for Foster Yeomans in 1985. Those first four locomotives had superb reliability and performance, and made the competing British and Romanian-built Class 56's look poor. BREL tried competing with the Class 58, which were very good and had some interesting features (modular design), but they were too little, too late. Brush's class 60s were good, but again not quite competitive. Roll on a few years, and when the American EWS bought BR's freight businesses, they ordered over 400 locomotives from GM, based on the 59s.

    And who can blame them? The 59's and 66's are very good locos, and better than anything BREL and its successors were offering in the late 1990s.

    The only way the government could have saved BREL was to put hurdles in the place of imports, and to have gone on a massive export drive.
  • Last night on TV

    20:30 BBC1 Margaret Thatcher obituary special 2.48m viewers (9.7%)
    10:45 ITV Margaret Thatcher: The Woman Who Changed Britain 845,000 viewers (7.5%)
    20:00 Channel 4 Maggie & Me 688k (2.8%)

    Well down on the Grand National then, Andrea.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    carl said:

    @Plato

    What on earth has that smeary gubbins got to do with the price of fish?

    I still highly recommend Hasan's article.

    Of course you do Carl.

    Wouldn't have expected any different of you.

  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited April 2013
    +----------------------------------------------------------+
    ¦ Petition to upgrade Margaret Thatcher's funeral ¦
    ¦ from "ceremonial" to "full state" status ¦
    ¦ ¦
    ¦ http://bit.ly/17o9IzU ¦
    ¦ ¦
    ¦ Don't allow Maggie's 2013 Closing Ceremony to be ¦
    ¦ upstaged by Danny Boy's 2012 Opening Ceremony ¦
    +----------------------------------------------------------+
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    TGOHF said:
    From the article

    "Let’s not beat around the bush; Ed Miliband is not a leader. Your average voter wouldn’t follow him to the chip shop, never mind the New Jerusalem"
  • JamesKellyJamesKelly Posts: 1,348
    Hodges is the man who wrote a blogpost yesterday entitled -

    "Margaret Thatcher dies: we on the Left must find the dignity to set aside our political differences"

    Can anyone direct me to one even vaguely left-wing viewpoint that Dan Hodges has ever espoused?
  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800
    This is probably just another conspiracy theory, but as most of you are much brighter than me perhaps you could tell me your thoughts:

    http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evils in Government/Federal Reserve Scam/kennedy_killed_by_bankers.htm
  • Edin_RokzEdin_Rokz Posts: 516
    I think most leaders of HMO have never been as popular as a sitting PM unless of course the PM concerned was perceived as being incompetent. The PM has the obvious advantages of not only getting more publicity but also being able to lead the discussion of Governing the country.

    I believe that it was said that Governments are the only ones who can lose elections, Oppositions never win them.
This discussion has been closed.