Mr. M., Once we have back control of who we can sling out the whole thing can be resolved very easily - work permits. A work permit would grant the holder the right to reside and work in the UK for a defined period. They would be granted only on the offer of a certain job (which can be hedged around by guarantees provided pre-entry by the employer) with no access to public funds except for emergency care.
The holders of such a permit would not be an immigrant, merely a guest worker. Just as I was when I worked abroad. Treat students much the same (responsibility on the University).
Lo and behold immigration would be down to less than 100,000 p.a. very quickly.
'Fraid not. An immigrant is defined as someone planning to stay here for more than one year (which is why students make up such a huge chunk of the numbers).
The students incoming should (in theory) be matched by students finishing their course and emigrating though.
20% of students are still resident 5 years after arriving, totalling about 50 000 per year. The other 200 000 leave by then.
That is why we talk about net migration and include students. Omitting them is just a way of fiddling the figures.
Indeed. The number of "students" who work cash in hand from the sub continent is staggering, it's an open secret student visa's are used by people from there to simply work here. Many of them work long hours on less than the minimum wage.
If you can come to the UK as a tourist, find work and get a visa immediately (if you qualify) then there's no real problem for high tech start-ups and ithers who need high-specialsed technicians immediately. It becomes a problem if the process becomes time-consuming and complicated; for example, requiring applicants to go home and get visas granted by UK consulates/embassies. That will be a huge disincentive and will mean a lot of missed opportunities.
May I ask what "high-specialsed technicians immediately." we are lacing in that we need recruit abroad ?
I could give you a laundry list of tech specialisms in the software industry. Some startups need very niche skills. Those who have those skills are generally not sat in their skivvies watching Jeremy Kyle and waiting on a call. Bluntly, I want to steal someone on a Friday and have them at work on the Monday next ( I appreciate that's a caricature).
John, I don't need a shopping list.
Give me three !
And I will give you thirty CVs...warning though you will have to pay them a living wage.
- Someone who can integrate AWS Lambda into the CI pipeline of an existing Amazon stack. - Someone who can write an implementation of STUN and ICE to run over a bespoke network protocol. - Someone who can implement custom neural networks in OpenCL.
Things like that. It's not a matter of a living wage, people who can do things like this well, from a standing start, are expensive.
Yeah but you can just put those keywords into a CV database and gets loads of matches, innit...
"The time limit creates a big problem for a country such as Britain wishing to negotiate advantageous exit terms, since once notice has been given the process can only be halted or extended by unanimous agreement, giving any member state a veto.
That's symmetrical, though, in that we have a veto on extending it as well. The Brexiteers assured us and continue to assure us that we have the stronger hand in the negotiations, so presumably the threat of us leaving without an agreement will be an advantage to us. Or something like that.
I agree with that. Our one trump card is delaying A50 until it suits us. We have to play hardball here. We can go on and on. A50 was never meant to be used, hence they didn't really think about a country that might express an intent to use it, but then hang back.
Mother Theresa needs cullions of tungsten, but if she can prolong this until 2017, even 2018, the better the deal we will get.
She will have to face down idiots like IDS, but so be it.
It's to her advantage that every time it gets tough domestically she can point to a Schultz or a Juncker and say, "We're not going to let the likes of him dictate the timeline. We'll stay as long as it suits us," and she'll have the jingoistic wing onside immediately.
If you can come to the UK as a tourist, find work and get a visa immediately (if you qualify) then there's no real problem for high tech start-ups and ithers who need high-specialsed technicians immediately. It becomes a problem if the process becomes time-consuming and complicated; for example, requiring applicants to go home and get visas granted by UK consulates/embassies. That will be a huge disincentive and will mean a lot of missed opportunities.
May I ask what "high-specialsed technicians immediately." we are lacing in that we need recruit abroad ?
I could give you a laundry list of tech specialisms in the software industry. Some startups need very niche skills. Those who have those skills are generally not sat in their skivvies watching Jeremy Kyle and waiting on a call. Bluntly, I want to steal someone on a Friday and have them at work on the Monday next ( I appreciate that's a caricature).
John, I don't need a shopping list.
Give me three !
And I will give you thirty CVs...warning though you will have to pay them a living wage.
- Someone who can integrate AWS Lambda into the CI pipeline of an existing Amazon stack. - Someone who can write an implementation of STUN and ICE to run over a bespoke network protocol. - Someone who can implement custom neural networks in OpenCL.
Things like that. It's not a matter of a living wage, people who can do things like this well, from a standing start, are expensive.
People who genuinely know the AWS stack are unbelievable expensive. One of my businesses is a Platform as a Service sitting atop AWS. We train people up, at massive expense, and then they take an extra zero on their salary and move to the Valley.
Quite. It was designed to be so horrible no one would ever use it. Apparently the Germans objected even to the inclusion of A50, and felt that EU membership should be explicitly irreversible, but they compromised with a method so grisly it would surely never be enacted
The mad Federalist Italian cunt that wrote A50 also wants us to "suffer" for daring to use the clause he wrote
OK. So you do actually genuinely have any evidence - other than a throw away line by a failed Italian politician in a Russia Today article - that he "wrote Article 50"?
I mean, seriously.
The Lisbon Treaty is a horrible disaster, on that we both agree. But where you see conspiracy, I see merely incompetence. The idea that - in marathon negotiating sessions - that there was a secret plan to make leaving the EU near impossible by having a two year period is laughable.
"make it unworkable when it was first proposed in 2003."
"The time limit creates a big problem for a country such as Britain wishing to negotiate advantageous exit terms, since once notice has been given the process can only be halted or extended by unanimous agreement, giving any member state a veto.
That article doesn't really match your earlier RT one, except possibly by very selective quoting.
"Creating problems" is not exactly "making it impossible". Federalists, according to that piece, opposed adding the article which directly contradicts the RT one, for example.
But ultimately, there is no problem. There will be negotiations prior to the invocation of Article 50, that lead to an agreement of an exit framework (FTA goods and services, small budget payments, etc.), that are followed by Article 50.
EU governments want an amicable divorce. We will leave.
There is no such thing as an amicable divorce!
I cannot see any of that happening, not with the three stooges in charge:
If you can come to the UK as a tourist, find work and get a visa immediately (if you qualify) then there's no real problem for high tech start-ups and ithers who need high-specialsed technicians immediately. It becomes a problem if the process becomes time-consuming and complicated; for example, requiring applicants to go home and get visas granted by UK consulates/embassies. That will be a huge disincentive and will mean a lot of missed opportunities.
May I ask what "high-specialsed technicians immediately." we are lacing in that we need recruit abroad ?
See the excellent piece posted on here jjust before the referendum by an exec working in London's high-tech start-up community. They need the very best immediately. Not all the very best are UK citizens, many come from other parts if Europe and they're already in London so can be employed immediately. It's that flexibility a visa system needs to retain.
Substitute 'world' and it still applies.
Of course. But because of freedom of movement you're more likely to find Europeans than others currently located in London. A visa ststem that actively works to attract global talent would be superb.
If you can come to the UK as a tourist, find work and get a visa immediately (if you qualify) then there's no real problem for high tech start-ups and ithers who need high-specialsed technicians immediately. It becomes a problem if the process becomes time-consuming and complicated; for example, requiring applicants to go home and get visas granted by UK consulates/embassies. That will be a huge disincentive and will mean a lot of missed opportunities.
May I ask what "high-specialsed technicians immediately." we are lacing in that we need recruit abroad ?
See the excellent piece posted on here jjust before the referendum by an exec working in London's high-tech start-up community. They need the very best immediately. Not all the very best are UK citizens, many come from other parts if Europe and they're already in London so can be employed immediately. It's that flexibility a visa system needs to retain.
Substitute 'world' and it still applies.
Of course. But because of freedom of movement you're more likely to find Europeans than others currently located in London. A visa ststem that actively works to attract global talent would be superb.
A visa system never attracts anybody (that you'd want); it can only help or hinder them once they're already attracted.
A weekly update to my 2016 average daily tracking poll:
Hillary 46.5 nc Trump 41 +0.5
Since the start on August 1st:
Hillary 46.5 46.5 47 47 44 Trump 41 40.5 41 41 41
Remarkable stability since the beginning of August. In the state polls Trump has slumped in Florida and losing more ground in Ohio, that is more significant than the national picture.
Hillary's lead has clearly narrowed a little since the DNC convention and today's Monmouth Ohio poll had Hillary ahead by 4%, Romney lost Ohio by 3%, McCain by almost 5% so Trump is presently doing a little better than McCain and a little worse than Romney (of course after Romney won the first debate he took the lead, although he failed to capitalise on it)
Those debates look more and more interesting as it appears the Democrats are shielding Mrs Clinton from the press. (Who TBH aren't exactly screaming for daily conferences).
Yes, the first debate will probably prove the most important event of the entire election campaign, if Hillary wins she kills Trump stone dead, if Trump wins and especially if he wins big the presidential race will go to the wire
The debates can only help by a few points here and there, if you are already way behind they can't do much.
For Trump to win he has to have a campaign, smile a lot, and keep quiet. As Trump himself put it in 1980, someone can win with no brains but a big smile:
Look today, Trump is not into any controversy so the news is all about Hillary and her 15K emails the FBI just discovered.
Hillary might have caught Trump on Google Trends, but because her email scandal is flaring again, and Trump has not done something stupid to obscure it. In this case Bad Publicity is Bad.
Agree on the emails. On the debates Trump is not so far behind that a good debate performance could not be crucial, he is only a little behind where Romney was 4 years ago, were he to win the first debate, like Romney and follow it up by winning the second debate, unlike Romney he will be right back in contention
If you can come to the UK as a tourist, find work and get a visa immediately (if you qualify) then there's no real problem for high tech start-ups and ithers who need high-specialsed technicians immediately. It becomes a problem if the process becomes time-consuming and complicated; for example, requiring applicants to go home and get visas granted by UK consulates/embassies. That will be a huge disincentive and will mean a lot of missed opportunities.
May I ask what "high-specialsed technicians immediately." we are lacing in that we need recruit abroad ?
I could give you a laundry list of tech specialisms in the software industry. Some startups need very niche skills. Those who have those skills are generally not sat in their skivvies watching Jeremy Kyle and waiting on a call. Bluntly, I want to steal someone on a Friday and have them at work on the Monday next ( I appreciate that's a caricature).
John, I don't need a shopping list.
Give me three !
And I will give you thirty CVs...warning though you will have to pay them a living wage.
- Someone who can integrate AWS Lambda into the CI pipeline of an existing Amazon stack. - Someone who can write an implementation of STUN and ICE to run over a bespoke network protocol. - Someone who can implement custom neural networks in OpenCL.
Things like that. It's not a matter of a living wage, people who can do things like this well, from a standing start, are expensive.
Yeah but you can just put those keywords into a CV database and gets loads of matches, innit...
I should add, that I would have given my left nut to be able to use AWS Lambda for our unit and functional testing back in the day. No provisioning, infinitely scaleable and cheap as chips. Of course, there was the small matter of the airgap .
If you can come to the UK as a tourist, find work and get a visa immediately (if you qualify) then there's no real problem for high tech start-ups and ithers who need high-specialsed technicians immediately. It becomes a problem if the process becomes time-consuming and complicated; for example, requiring applicants to go home and get visas granted by UK consulates/embassies. That will be a huge disincentive and will mean a lot of missed opportunities.
May I ask what "high-specialsed technicians immediately." we are lacing in that we need recruit abroad ?
I could give you a laundry list of tech specialisms in the software industry. Some startups need very niche skills. Those who have those skills are generally not sat in their skivvies watching Jeremy Kyle and waiting on a call. Bluntly, I want to steal someone on a Friday and have them at work on the Monday next ( I appreciate that's a caricature).
John, I don't need a shopping list.
Give me three !
And I will give you thirty CVs...warning though you will have to pay them a living wage.
- Someone who can integrate AWS Lambda into the CI pipeline of an existing Amazon stack. - Someone who can write an implementation of STUN and ICE to run over a bespoke network protocol. - Someone who can implement custom neural networks in OpenCL.
Things like that. It's not a matter of a living wage, people who can do things like this well, from a standing start, are expensive.
People who genuinely know the AWS stack are unbelievable expensive. One of my businesses is a Platform as a Service sitting atop AWS. We train people up, at massive expense, and then they take an extra zero on their salary and move to the Valley.
Yep. I noticed globalisation when we started losing our best people to Google, Apple and the Bay in general. It never used to happen and when it started it was impossible to compete. 6-8x the salary + benefits.
If you can come to the UK as a tourist, find work and get a visa immediately (if you qualify) then there's no real problem for high tech start-ups and ithers who need high-specialsed technicians immediately. It becomes a problem if the process becomes time-consuming and complicated; for example, requiring applicants to go home and get visas granted by UK consulates/embassies. That will be a huge disincentive and will mean a lot of missed opportunities.
May I ask what "high-specialsed technicians immediately." we are lacing in that we need recruit abroad ?
I could give you a laundry list of tech specialisms in the software industry. Some startups need very niche skills. Those who have those skills are generally not sat in their skivvies watching Jeremy Kyle and waiting on a call. Bluntly, I want to steal someone on a Friday and have them at work on the Monday next ( I appreciate that's a caricature).
John, I don't need a shopping list.
Give me three !
And I will give you thirty CVs...warning though you will have to pay them a living wage.
- Someone who can integrate AWS Lambda into the CI pipeline of an existing Amazon stack. - Someone who can write an implementation of STUN and ICE to run over a bespoke network protocol. - Someone who can implement custom neural networks in OpenCL.
Things like that. It's not a matter of a living wage, people who can do things like this well, from a standing start, are expensive.
I had expected a sensible answer
AWS Lambda ... jeees such low level stuff. STUN and ICE.... Even I can do neural networks
Can't be bothered to talk..... You really don't think we can't recruit theses skills in UK, well I had no probs although they were more expensive from the UK
Australia under Turnbull is actually perhaps slightly more liberal than the UK under May, Australia under Abbott was well to the right of the UK under Cameron by contrast. New Zealand under Key is about the same. The US is clearly moving right whether Hillary or Trump succeeds Obama but especially the latter, so if you want a liberal, pro EU, developed nation alternative to the UK that speaks English then Canada under Trudeau is your best bet for now
Or Ireland, which has the added benefit of being republican.
Ireland can be a bit awkward if you are obviously British: living there is different from holidaying. If I was minded to emigrate (i think I'm a bit too old now, tbh) it would have to be somewhere with a space programme: so that's mostly US, Russia, China, India, Japan, France
If I had my time again and had a greater wallet and facility for languages, I would have loved to live in Japan, even if only for a little while. It's batshit crazy, but my kind of batshit crazy.
If Scotland does split, I'd idly consider Scotland, although to what degree of seriousness is unknown.
'Have to be somewhere with a space programme?' Considering Mars then?
What can I tell you, I like rockets. I realise they're pyramids for the 21st century, but they're still wicked cool. We haven't produced something fuck-off-rock-hard techy impressive since Concorde (ARM chips don't count), but America, via SpaceX, Boeing, that rejected StarChaser thing, the Space Launch System, it's just churning them out. I wanted Trump to pick Newt as his VP because he wants to build a moonbase: I mean yes, he's a nutter and Trump is a shit of the first water, but, hello, moonbase?!
If you can come to the UK as a tourist, find work and get a visa immediately (if you qualify) then there's no real problem for high tech start-ups and ithers who need high-specialsed technicians immediately. It becomes a problem if the process becomes time-consuming and complicated; for example, requiring applicants to go home and get visas granted by UK consulates/embassies. That will be a huge disincentive and will mean a lot of missed opportunities.
May I ask what "high-specialsed technicians immediately." we are lacing in that we need recruit abroad ?
See the excellent piece posted on here jjust before the referendum by an exec working in London's high-tech start-up community. They need the very best immediately. Not all the very best are UK citizens, many come from other parts if Europe and they're already in London so can be employed immediately. It's that flexibility a visa system needs to retain.
Substitute 'world' and it still applies.
Of course. But because of freedom of movement you're more likely to find Europeans than others currently located in London. A visa ststem that actively works to attract global talent would be superb.
A visa system never attracts anybody (that you'd want); it can only help or hinder them once they're already attracted.
If you are a highly-qualified software engineer and you know you can come to the UK, find a relevant job and then stay it would make us a lot more attractive than many other places and would solve a problem that hindering current freedom of movement would create. It would not be perfect, of course, but it would be positive.
A weekly update to my 2016 average daily tracking poll:
Hillary 46.5 nc Trump 41 +0.5
Since the start on August 1st:
Hillary 46.5 46.5 47 47 44 Trump 41 40.5 41 41 41
Remarkable stability since the beginning of August. In the state polls Trump has slumped in Florida and losing more ground in Ohio, that is more significant than the national picture.
Hillary's lead has clearly narrowed a little since the DNC convention and today's Monmouth Ohio poll had Hillary ahead by 4%, Romney lost Ohio by 3%, McCain by almost 5% so Trump is presently doing a little better than McCain and a little worse than Romney (of course after Romney won the first debate he took the lead, although he failed to capitalise on it)
Those debates look more and more interesting as it appears the Democrats are shielding Mrs Clinton from the press. (Who TBH aren't exactly screaming for daily conferences).
Yes, the first debate will probably prove the most important event of the entire election campaign, if Hillary wins she kills Trump stone dead, if Trump wins and especially if he wins big the presidential race will go to the wire
The debates can only help by a few points here and there, if you are already way behind they can't do much.
For Trump to win he has to have a campaign, smile a lot, and keep quiet. As Trump himself put it in 1980, someone can win with no brains but a big smile:
Look today, Trump is not into any controversy so the news is all about Hillary and her 15K emails the FBI just discovered.
Hillary might have caught Trump on Google Trends, but because her email scandal is flaring again, and Trump has not done something stupid to obscure it. In this case Bad Publicity is Bad.
Romney was ahead wasn't he after the 1st debate?
Romney, as Trump never tires of saying, was a stiff who went AWOL in the campaign.
Two ways of going AWOL - 1) Not doing anything 2) Not being reported as doing anything.
Trump could speak in front of 18,000 at Madison Square Garden - but if the media don't report it . . .
At least Trump isn't going AWOL - but whether that is a good thing or not remains to be seen.
If you can come to the UK as a tourist, find work and get a visa immediately (if you qualify) then there's no real problem for high tech start-ups and ithers who need high-specialsed technicians immediately. It becomes a problem if the process becomes time-consuming and complicated; for example, requiring applicants to go home and get visas granted by UK consulates/embassies. That will be a huge disincentive and will mean a lot of missed opportunities.
May I ask what "high-specialsed technicians immediately." we are lacing in that we need recruit abroad ?
I could give you a laundry list of tech specialisms in the software industry. Some startups need very niche skills. Those who have those skills are generally not sat in their skivvies watching Jeremy Kyle and waiting on a call. Bluntly, I want to steal someone on a Friday and have them at work on the Monday next ( I appreciate that's a caricature).
John, I don't need a shopping list.
Give me three !
And I will give you thirty CVs...warning though you will have to pay them a living wage.
- Someone who can integrate AWS Lambda into the CI pipeline of an existing Amazon stack. - Someone who can write an implementation of STUN and ICE to run over a bespoke network protocol. - Someone who can implement custom neural networks in OpenCL.
Things like that. It's not a matter of a living wage, people who can do things like this well, from a standing start, are expensive.
I had expected a sensible answer
AWS Lambda ... jeees such low level stuff. STUN and ICE.... Even I can do neural networks
Can't be bothered to talk..... You really don't think we can't recruit theses skills in UK, well I had no probs although they were more expensive from the UK
Fair enough, you asked, I answered, you don't like my answers, such is life.
If you can come to the UK as a tourist, find work and get a visa immediately (if you qualify) then there's no real problem for high tech start-ups and ithers who need high-specialsed technicians immediately. It becomes a problem if the process becomes time-consuming and complicated; for example, requiring applicants to go home and get visas granted by UK consulates/embassies. That will be a huge disincentive and will mean a lot of missed opportunities.
May I ask what "high-specialsed technicians immediately." we are lacing in that we need recruit abroad ?
I could give you a laundry list of tech specialisms in the software industry. Some startups need very niche skills. Those who have those skills are generally not sat in their skivvies watching Jeremy Kyle and waiting on a call. Bluntly, I want to steal someone on a Friday and have them at work on the Monday next ( I appreciate that's a caricature).
John, I don't need a shopping list.
Give me three !
And I will give you thirty CVs...warning though you will have to pay them a living wage.
- Someone who can integrate AWS Lambda into the CI pipeline of an existing Amazon stack. - Someone who can write an implementation of STUN and ICE to run over a bespoke network protocol. - Someone who can implement custom neural networks in OpenCL.
Things like that. It's not a matter of a living wage, people who can do things like this well, from a standing start, are expensive.
I had expected a sensible answer
AWS Lambda ... jeees such low level stuff. STUN and ICE.... Even I can do neural networks
Can't be bothered to talk..... You really don't think we can't recruit theses skills in UK, well I had no probs although they were more expensive from the UK
Fair enough, you asked, I answered, you don't like my answers, such is life.
AWS Azure there's not a lot to them.
If you go off shore you can get away with £250 - £300 a day India....Near shore a little more. UK we are now at £350 a day. Without eastern Europe and its just my opinion we would be nearer £500 a day.
When China's women's volleyball team won their nation's 26th and final gold medal of the Rio Olympics, the celebrations were tinged with more than a little annoyance.
The cause of the irritation was that somehow, once again, an incorrect version of the Chinese flag was hoisted high during the medal ceremony.
When China's women's volleyball team won their nation's 26th and final gold medal of the Rio Olympics, the celebrations were tinged with more than a little annoyance.
The cause of the irritation was that somehow, once again, an incorrect version of the Chinese flag was hoisted high during the medal ceremony.
When China's women's volleyball team won their nation's 26th and final gold medal of the Rio Olympics, the celebrations were tinged with more than a little annoyance.
The cause of the irritation was that somehow, once again, an incorrect version of the Chinese flag was hoisted high during the medal ceremony.
TBH, you could let them off the first time, it is a very small error by a third party flag maker. But it was clearly pointed out to them and they just went oh nevermind nobody cares and carried on.
Quite. It was designed to be so horrible no one would ever use it. Apparently the Germans objected even to the inclusion of A50, and felt that EU membership should be explicitly irreversible, but they compromised with a method so grisly it would surely never be enacted
The mad Federalist Italian cunt that wrote A50 also wants us to "suffer" for daring to use the clause he wrote
OK. So you do actually genuinely have any evidence - other than a throw away line by a failed Italian politician in a Russia Today article - that he "wrote Article 50"?
I mean, seriously.
The Lisbon Treaty is a horrible disaster, on that we both agree. But where you see conspiracy, I see merely incompetence. The idea that - in marathon negotiating sessions - that there was a secret plan to make leaving the EU near impossible by having a two year period is laughable.
An interesting question is what the situation would now be if Lisbon hadn't passed, and the UK had voted to leave, but there was no procedure for doing it.
the loathsome Article 50 we are now enacting is in Lisbon
I'm struggling. What's so loathsome about Article 50?
Here's the text:
1. Any Member State may decide to withdraw from the Union in accordance with its own constitutional requirements.
2. A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its intention. In the light of the guidelines provided by the European Council, the Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union. That agreement shall be negotiated in accordance with Article 218(3) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union. It shall be concluded on behalf of the Union by the Council, acting by a qualified majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament.
3. The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period.
4. For the purposes of paragraphs 2 and 3, the member of the European Council or of the Council representing the withdrawing Member State shall not participate in the discussions of the European Council or Council or in decisions concerning it.
A qualified majority shall be defined in accordance with Article 238(3)(b) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union.
5. If a State which has withdrawn from the Union asks to rejoin, its request shall be subject to the procedure referred to in Article 49.
Genuinely: what's so loathsome about that?
According to the author it was drafted with that two year limit in order to make it impractical for any member to actually withdraw.
If that had been the goal the final step would require unanimity, not QMV.
the loathsome Article 50 we are now enacting is in Lisbon
I'm struggling. What's so loathsome about Article 50?
Here's the text:
1. Any Member State may decide to withdraw from the Union in accordance with its own constitutional requirements.
2. A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its intention. In the light of the guidelines provided by the European Council, the Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union. That agreement shall be negotiated in accordance with Article 218(3) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union. It shall be concluded on behalf of the Union by the Council, acting by a qualified majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament.
3. The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period.
4. For the purposes of paragraphs 2 and 3, the member of the European Council or of the Council representing the withdrawing Member State shall not participate in the discussions of the European Council or Council or in decisions concerning it.
A qualified majority shall be defined in accordance with Article 238(3)(b) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union.
5. If a State which has withdrawn from the Union asks to rejoin, its request shall be subject to the procedure referred to in Article 49.
Genuinely: what's so loathsome about that?
According to the author it was drafted with that two year limit in order to make it impractical for any member to actually withdraw.
If that had been the goal the final step would require unanimity, not QMV.
When China's women's volleyball team won their nation's 26th and final gold medal of the Rio Olympics, the celebrations were tinged with more than a little annoyance.
The cause of the irritation was that somehow, once again, an incorrect version of the Chinese flag was hoisted high during the medal ceremony.
TBH, you could let them off the first time, it is a very small error by a third party flag maker. But it was clearly pointed out to them and they just went oh nevermind nobody cares and carried on.
It's interesting that most of us can spot when it's upside down, we just don't quite know why. Or what's wrong as we squint at it.
When China's women's volleyball team won their nation's 26th and final gold medal of the Rio Olympics, the celebrations were tinged with more than a little annoyance.
The cause of the irritation was that somehow, once again, an incorrect version of the Chinese flag was hoisted high during the medal ceremony.
TBH, you could let them off the first time, it is a very small error by a third party flag maker. But it was clearly pointed out to them and they just went oh nevermind nobody cares and carried on.
It's interesting that most of us can spot when it's upside down, we just don't quite know why. Or what's wrong as we squint at it.
It true of lots of things. I don't buy all of the stuff in Gladwell's book "blink", but there is something in his hypothesis of what is going on when people say that they "gut told them" or "I just knew something wasn't right"...and overwhelmingly you are right when you get a reaction for instance when shown the flag.
When China's women's volleyball team won their nation's 26th and final gold medal of the Rio Olympics, the celebrations were tinged with more than a little annoyance.
The cause of the irritation was that somehow, once again, an incorrect version of the Chinese flag was hoisted high during the medal ceremony.
TBH, you could let them off the first time, it is a very small error by a third party flag maker. But it was clearly pointed out to them and they just went oh nevermind nobody cares and carried on.
I've just come out of an entertainingly pedantic conversation about this article with a friend on facebook, and I was hoping it was going on here too. You didn't let me down, pb.com. The upshot was that the flag labelled 'the correct flag' on the BBC article doesn't appear to be correct - the orientation of the smaller stars is all over the place: only the third one down is correct, and the bottom one is way off. Compare with the orientation of the stars on the wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_China#/media/File:Construction_sheet_of_Flag_of_the_People's_Republic_of_China.svg
Trump Leads Clinton by 5+ Points in the Key Battleground State of Pennsylvania CBS News 8 - San Diego, CA News Station - KFMB Channel 8 - 1 day ago
Harrisburg, Pennsylvania - August 21, 2016 - (Newswire.com) ... is conducting opinion polling and analysis on the US Presidential Election ...
But the page linked to doesn't exist.
any idea what happened?
There was a Canadian polling firm who released a poll yesterday giving Trump a 5% lead in Pennsylvania. But soon after releasing it, they seemed to disappear from the internet, so I'm not sure how seriously to take it.
When China's women's volleyball team won their nation's 26th and final gold medal of the Rio Olympics, the celebrations were tinged with more than a little annoyance.
The cause of the irritation was that somehow, once again, an incorrect version of the Chinese flag was hoisted high during the medal ceremony.
TBH, you could let them off the first time, it is a very small error by a third party flag maker. But it was clearly pointed out to them and they just went oh nevermind nobody cares and carried on.
I've just come out of an entertainingly pedantic conversation about this article with a friend on facebook, and I was hoping it was going on here too. You didn't let me down, pb.com. The upshot was that the flag labelled 'the correct flag' on the BBC article doesn't appear to be correct - the orientation of the smaller stars is all over the place: only the third one down is correct, and the bottom one is way off. Compare with the orientation of the stars on the wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_China#/media/File:Construction_sheet_of_Flag_of_the_People's_Republic_of_China.svg
You are told there are three flags, two are incorrect and one is correct. You choose a flag and those host asks if you would like to swap...
Trump Leads Clinton by 5+ Points in the Key Battleground State of Pennsylvania CBS News 8 - San Diego, CA News Station - KFMB Channel 8 - 1 day ago
Harrisburg, Pennsylvania - August 21, 2016 - (Newswire.com) ... is conducting opinion polling and analysis on the US Presidential Election ...
But the page linked to doesn't exist.
any idea what happened?
There was a Canadian polling firm who released a poll yesterday giving Trump a 5% lead in Pennsylvania. But soon after releasing it, they seemed to disappear from the internet, so I'm not sure how seriously to take it.
"The time limit creates a big problem for a country such as Britain wishing to negotiate advantageous exit terms, since once notice has been given the process can only be halted or extended by unanimous agreement, giving any member state a veto.
That's symmetrical, though, in that we have a veto on extending it as well. The Brexiteers assured us and continue to assure us that we have the stronger hand in the negotiations, so presumably the threat of us leaving without an agreement will be an advantage to us. Or something like that.
I agree with that. Our one trump card is delaying A50 until it suits us. We have to play hardball here. We can go on and on. A50 was never meant to be used, hence they didn't really think about a country that might express an intent to use it, but then hang back.
Mother Theresa needs cullions of tungsten, but if she can prolong this until 2017, even 2018, the better the deal we will get.
She will have to face down idiots like IDS, but so be it.
Though the likes of IDS are useful to the process to show the Europeans that we are sincere about leaving abd will do it the hard way, if necessary. As you have pointed out, Cameron's mistake wrt negotiation was to take the option of leaving off the table.
When China's women's volleyball team won their nation's 26th and final gold medal of the Rio Olympics, the celebrations were tinged with more than a little annoyance.
The cause of the irritation was that somehow, once again, an incorrect version of the Chinese flag was hoisted high during the medal ceremony.
TBH, you could let them off the first time, it is a very small error by a third party flag maker. But it was clearly pointed out to them and they just went oh nevermind nobody cares and carried on.
I've just come out of an entertainingly pedantic conversation about this article with a friend on facebook, and I was hoping it was going on here too. You didn't let me down, pb.com. The upshot was that the flag labelled 'the correct flag' on the BBC article doesn't appear to be correct - the orientation of the smaller stars is all over the place: only the third one down is correct, and the bottom one is way off. Compare with the orientation of the stars on the wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_China#/media/File:Construction_sheet_of_Flag_of_the_People's_Republic_of_China.svg
You are told there are three flags, two are incorrect and one is correct. You choose a flag and those host asks if you would like to swap...
Ha ha. What this also highlights is that red and yellow is - to me eyes, at least - a horrible colour combination for a flag. If you want red, contrast it with white(/and blue/green). If you want yellow, contrast it with blue (or black, if you must). Red and yellow together looks jarring.
Quite. It was designed to be so horrible no one would ever use it. Apparently the Germans objected even to the inclusion of A50, and felt that EU membership should be explicitly irreversible, but they compromised with a method so grisly it would surely never be enacted
The mad Federalist Italian cunt that wrote A50 also wants us to "suffer" for daring to use the clause he wrote
OK. So you do actually genuinely have any evidence - other than a throw away line by a failed Italian politician in a Russia Today article - that he "wrote Article 50"?
I mean, seriously.
The Lisbon Treaty is a horrible disaster, on that we both agree. But where you see conspiracy, I see merely incompetence. The idea that - in marathon negotiating sessions - that there was a secret plan to make leaving the EU near impossible by having a two year period is laughable.
An interesting question is what the situation would now be if Lisbon hadn't passed, and the UK had voted to leave, but there was no procedure for doing it.
Presumably, the legal situation would have fallen back on the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties or, failing anything relevant in that, customary international law.
While I am not sure, I would suspect the latter would be that, unless explicitly stated otherwise, a treaty ceases to be effective on a Party upon its notification of all the other Parties of its intent to cede and as of the date notified.
The good think about these hypothetical pairings, is that they can never be tested!
One interesting thing is the change in demographics.
"Clinton is not doing quite as well as Barack Obama did four years ago among black, Hispanic, and Asian voters (72% to 10% for Trump compared with 84% for Obama to 14% for Mitt Romney in 2012). Likewise, Trump is not doing quite as well with white voters (45% to 37% for Clinton) as Romney did (57% to 41% for Obama)."
Here is a very interesting take by Michael Rosenblum on polls for the US presidential election.
"The American people voted for (Trump) a long time ago.
They voted for him when The History Channel went from showing documentaries about the Second World War to Pawn Stars and Swamp People.
They voted for him when The Discovery Channel went from showing Lost Treasures of the Yangtze Valley to Naked and Afraid.
They voted for him when The Learning Channel moved from something you could learn from to My 600 Pound Life.
They voted for him when CBS went from airing Harvest of Shame to airing Big Brother.
These networks didn't make these programming changes by accident. They were responding to what the American people actually wanted. And what they wanted was Naked and Afraid and Duck Dynasty.
The polls may show that Donald Trump is losing to Hillary Clinton, but don't you believe those polls. When the AC Nielsen Company selects a new Nielsen family, they disregard the new family's results for the first three months. The reason: when they feel they are being monitored, people lie about what they are watching. In the first three months, knowing they are being watched, they will tune into PBS. But over time they get tired of pretending."
Anyone who's sceptical about what Rosenblum is saying, please watch the following two piece of TV showing Trump:
Ha ha. What this also highlights is that red and yellow is - to me eyes, at least - a horrible colour combination for a flag. If you want red, contrast it with white(/and blue/green). If you want yellow, contrast it with blue (or black, if you must). Red and yellow together looks jarring.
Ha ha. What this also highlights is that red and yellow is - to me eyes, at least - a horrible colour combination for a flag. If you want red, contrast it with white(/and blue/green). If you want yellow, contrast it with blue (or black, if you must). Red and yellow together looks jarring.
Anti-Spanish racism!
Actually, fair enough, the Spanish flag looks good. Maybe it works if there's much more yellow than red.
Ha ha. What this also highlights is that red and yellow is - to me eyes, at least - a horrible colour combination for a flag. If you want red, contrast it with white(/and blue/green). If you want yellow, contrast it with blue (or black, if you must). Red and yellow together looks jarring.
Anti-Spanish racism!
Actually, fair enough, the Spanish flag looks good. Maybe it works if there's much more yellow than red.
It would have been much better if the Republicans had won the civil war. Then the flag would be red, yellow and purple:
@BetteMidler: Donald Trump calls on Hillary to shut down her foundation. Meanwhile, we’re all still begging him to choose a more natural color for his.
"The time limit creates a big problem for a country such as Britain wishing to negotiate advantageous exit terms, since once notice has been given the process can only be halted or extended by unanimous agreement, giving any member state a veto.
That's symmetrical, though, in that we have a veto on extending it as well. The Brexiteers assured us and continue to assure us that we have the stronger hand in the negotiations, so presumably the threat of us leaving without an agreement will be an advantage to us. Or something like that.
I agree with that. Our one trump card is delaying A50 until it suits us. We have to play hardball here. We can go on and on. A50 was never meant to be used, hence they didn't really think about a country that might express an intent to use it, but then hang back.
Mother Theresa needs cullions of tungsten, but if she can prolong this until 2017, even 2018, the better the deal we will get.
She will have to face down idiots like IDS, but so be it.
Though the likes of IDS are useful to the process to show the Europeans that we are sincere about leaving abd will do it the hard way, if necessary. As you have pointed out, Cameron's mistake wrt negotiation was to take the option of leaving off the table.
Surely Cameron's mistake was that he did not know what he wanted: he just wanted something, anything, he could present to the British people.
"The time limit creates a big problem for a country such as Britain wishing to negotiate advantageous exit terms, since once notice has been given the process can only be halted or extended by unanimous agreement, giving any member state a veto.
That's symmetrical, though, in that we have a veto on extending it as well. The Brexiteers assured us and continue to assure us that we have the stronger hand in the negotiations, so presumably the threat of us leaving without an agreement will be an advantage to us. Or something like that.
I agree with that. Our one trump card is delaying A50 until it suits us. We have to play hardball here. We can go on and on. A50 was never meant to be used, hence they didn't really think about a country that might express an intent to use it, but then hang back.
Mother Theresa needs cullions of tungsten, but if she can prolong this until 2017, even 2018, the better the deal we will get.
She will have to face down idiots like IDS, but so be it.
Though the likes of IDS are useful to the process to show the Europeans that we are sincere about leaving abd will do it the hard way, if necessary. As you have pointed out, Cameron's mistake wrt negotiation was to take the option of leaving off the table.
Surely Cameron's mistake was that he did not know what he wanted: he just wanted something, anything, he could present to the British people.
Very true. Cammo's mistake was thinking he could con the the British People - again - and this time they found him out to be the cheat and a liar that he always was.
Sir Tom Devine (Leading Scottish historian, supporter of Independence):
At the moment the auguries are moving pretty bad, I would say they are worse than 2014.....
"At the same time, there has been no intellectual response to the weaknesses of the SNP economic programmes, not simply in relation to the currency, but elsewhere."
Australia under Turnbull is actually perhaps slightly more liberal than the UK under May, Australia under Abbott was well to the right of the UK under Cameron by contrast. New Zealand under Key is about the same. The US is clearly moving right whether Hillary or Trump succeeds Obama but especially the latter, so if you want a liberal, pro EU, developed nation alternative to the UK that speaks English then Canada under Trudeau is your best bet for now
Or Ireland, which has the added benefit of being republican.
Ireland can be a bit awkward if you are obviously British: living there is different from holidaying. If I was minded to emigrate (i think I'm a bit too old now, tbh) it would have to be somewhere with a space programme: so that's mostly US, Russia, China, India, Japan, France
If I had my time again and had a greater wallet and facility for languages, I would have loved to live in Japan, even if only for a little while. It's batshit crazy, but my kind of batshit crazy.
If Scotland does split, I'd idly consider Scotland, although to what degree of seriousness is unknown.
Scotland's not going to split. Brexit makes it near impossible. A fine irony.
I don't think Scotland will split, but not because of Brexit per se: it's simply that, when push comes to shove, they just don't want to leave the UK. I understand there are many Scots who wish to secede, but regardless of their undoubted passion and conviction they are not in a majority.
Brexit may tilt the balance if the UK economy craters post-Brexit and it becomes in Scotland's economic interest to do so. But unless things really go ka-ka, that's not going to happen.
Given it needs only a few % to change and almost all young people are for splitting , your view seems a bit hopeful. It is just a case of when, even the fools will realise at some point that Westminster is robbing them.
Australia under Turnbull is actually perhaps slightly more liberal than the UK under May, Australia under Abbott was well to the right of the UK under Cameron by contrast. New Zealand under Key is about the same. The US is clearly moving right whether Hillary or Trump succeeds Obama but especially the latter, so if you want a liberal, pro EU, developed nation alternative to the UK that speaks English then Canada under Trudeau is your best bet for now
Or Ireland, which has the added benefit of being republican.
Ireland can be a bit awkward if you are obviously British: living there is different from holidaying. If I was minded to emigrate (i think I'm a bit too old now, tbh) it would have to be somewhere with a space programme: so that's mostly US, Russia, China, India, Japan, France
If I had my time again and had a greater wallet and facility for languages, I would have loved to live in Japan, even if only for a little while. It's batshit crazy, but my kind of batshit crazy.
If Scotland does split, I'd idly consider Scotland, although to what degree of seriousness is unknown.
Scotland's not going to split. Brexit makes it near impossible. A fine irony.
I don't think Scotland will split, but not because of Brexit per se: it's simply that, when push comes to shove, they just don't want to leave the UK. I understand there are many Scots who wish to secede, but regardless of their undoubted passion and conviction they are not in a majority.
Brexit may tilt the balance if the UK economy craters post-Brexit and it becomes in Scotland's economic interest to do so. But unless things really go ka-ka, that's not going to happen.
Once teh sh*t sandwich handed out by EU is in place , things will look very very different. Given the mess Westminster have made of the Scottish economy to date , how much worse does it need to get before even jingoistic unionist nutters vote YES.
Some English have humungous inferiority complex, complaining to Tesco due to them printing the origin of the fruit in the box , surprisingly they only complained about Scotland. Dear Dear how the mighty have fallen , scared by a wee flag on a carton of strawberries. They blubber and whine till they get the Butchers Apron on it to make them feel big again.
Sir Tom Devine (Leading Scottish historian, supporter of Independence):
At the moment the auguries are moving pretty bad, I would say they are worse than 2014.....
"At the same time, there has been no intellectual response to the weaknesses of the SNP economic programmes, not simply in relation to the currency, but elsewhere."
Comments
I cannot see any of that happening, not with the three stooges in charge:
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/aug/22/brexit-means-brexit-when-is-big-question
I think it wise to prepare for a hard Brexit, as that is on the cards. At the moment we are in the phoney war. Prepare your own finances accordingly.
AWS Lambda ... jeees such low level stuff.
STUN and ICE....
Even I can do neural networks
Can't be bothered to talk.....
You really don't think we can't recruit theses skills in UK, well I had no probs although they were more expensive from the UK
Trump could speak in front of 18,000 at Madison Square Garden - but if the media don't report it . . .
At least Trump isn't going AWOL - but whether that is a good thing or not remains to be seen.
If Trump backs off deportation proposal…
• How many supporters will he lose?
• How many undecideds will he gain?
CBS http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/trump-may-back-off-plan-to-deport-11-million-people/
https://t.co/GCqI9v9VOq
If you go off shore you can get away with £250 - £300 a day India....Near shore a little more.
UK we are now at £350 a day. Without eastern Europe and its just my opinion we would be nearer £500 a day.
CHEAP LABOUR
When China's women's volleyball team won their nation's 26th and final gold medal of the Rio Olympics, the celebrations were tinged with more than a little annoyance.
The cause of the irritation was that somehow, once again, an incorrect version of the Chinese flag was hoisted high during the medal ceremony.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-37158742
Trump Leads Clinton by 5+ Points in the Key Battleground State of Pennsylvania
CBS News 8 - San Diego, CA News Station - KFMB Channel 8 - 1 day ago
Harrisburg, Pennsylvania - August 21, 2016 - (Newswire.com) ... is conducting opinion polling and analysis on the US Presidential Election ...
But the page linked to doesn't exist.
any idea what happened?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_China#/media/File:Construction_sheet_of_Flag_of_the_People's_Republic_of_China.svg
As you have pointed out, Cameron's mistake wrt negotiation was to take the option of leaving off the table.
What this also highlights is that red and yellow is - to me eyes, at least - a horrible colour combination for a flag. If you want red, contrast it with white(/and blue/green). If you want yellow, contrast it with blue (or black, if you must). Red and yellow together looks jarring.
'May I ask what "high-specialsed technicians immediately." we are lacing in that we need recruit abroad ?'
That's usually the code for 'we can find somebody from outside the UK to do the job for less money' or otherwise known as the skilled shortage.
While I am not sure, I would suspect the latter would be that, unless explicitly stated otherwise, a treaty ceases to be effective on a Party upon its notification of all the other Parties of its intent to cede and as of the date notified.
"Clinton is not doing quite as well as Barack Obama did four years ago among black, Hispanic, and Asian voters (72% to 10% for Trump compared with 84% for Obama to 14% for Mitt Romney in 2012). Likewise, Trump is not doing quite as well with white voters (45% to 37% for Clinton) as Romney did (57% to 41% for Obama)."
Shy white Trumpers?
https://t.co/Yq0O6PMTov
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9OXcrgSVM4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMKFIHRpe7I
This is what the guy "Trump" means to millions of people.
@BetteMidler: Donald Trump calls on Hillary to shut down her foundation. Meanwhile, we’re all still begging him to choose a more natural color for his.
Wait till you find out how much raspberry tax we lose when they're sold in England.
At the moment the auguries are moving pretty bad, I would say they are worse than 2014.....
"At the same time, there has been no intellectual response to the weaknesses of the SNP economic programmes, not simply in relation to the currency, but elsewhere."
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14698089.Leading_historian_Sir_Tom_Devine__SNP_has_five_years_before_its_popularity_will_begin_to_decline
MI7 went to a lot of trouble to hide the Secret Raspberry Fields of Strathmore
(Used to pick them as a kid - on the first day gorged ourselves silly on them, couldn't look another raspberry in the face all summer long....)
and on that note, new thread!